The Australian 2011 Monckton Tour
A Carbon Tax will
BANKRUPT AUSTRALIA
THE SCIENCE DOES NOT JUSTIFY IT
Viscount Christopher Monckton will explain why.
Dr David Evans and Jo Nova will accompany him in Sydney and Newcastle
30th June Perth: “The Climate of Freedom”, Hancock Free Enterprise Lecture, AMEC Convention 2011 (not open to the general public). WA.
PLUS Notre Dame University, 6pm Tannock Hall of Education, cnr Cliff and Croke streets. THIS EVENT IS BOOKED OUT!! The University of Notre Dame Australia, Fremantle Campus See the PDF.
UPDATE 24-6-11: JUST ADDED — PERTH PUBLIC EVENT Mon 4th July. NEW VENUE!!!* Wilsmore Lecture Theatre in the Chemistry Department G.108 at University of WA 5.45pm for a 6 pm start cost $25 per person. Jo Nova and David Evans are speaking too. Ph 043 542 3636 for Bookings (payment on the night.) There are tables with only 250 seats available. A data projector and a screen are required – Can anyone in Perth assist with them for the night? ( Thanks to Leon Ashby at ClimateSceptics.)
…
* * *
Bookings through Ticketek
Phone 132 849 or go to www.ticketek.com.au
$25 per person
6th July 7.00pm New Lambton, Starlight Room, Wests, NSW.
7th July 6.30pm Sydney , Wesley Theatre, NSW.
8th July 7.00pm North Sydney, Leagues Club, NSW.
13th July 7.00pm Brisbane, Broncos Leagues Club (cowards who canceled) QLD.*
NOW Bardon Conference Venue, 390 Simpsons Rd, Bardon Qld (ph 07 3217 5333 or Ticketek)
Lord Monckton will also appear with Bob Carter in Noosa. For Noosa appearances see http://thej.com.au/the-j
16th July 3.00pm The J, Noosa Junction, QLD Ph: 07 54554455
16th July 7.00pm The J, Noosa Junction, QLD Ph: 07 54554455
18 July 7.00pm Ballarat St Patricks Pavillion, Ballarat Vic (bookings 0435 423 636) *
19 July Canberra National Press Club debate 12.30 pm start ABC TV, Sky News
20 July 12.00pm Lunch/Presentation, 401 Collins St, Melbourne (Book with Gary Morgan ph 03 9224 5213)
20 July 7.00pm Alma Sports Centre, 1 Wilks St Caulfield North, Melbourne, bookings Ticketek
21 July 7.00pm Traralgon Town Hall, Traralgon Victoria (bookings 03 5176 3559) *
22 July 7:00pm Jim Deans Function Room, South Adelaide Football Club, 1 Lovelock Dr, Noarlunga Downs, SA (bookings 0435 423 636) *
24 July 7:30pm Mount Gambier Sportsmans Club, Cnr Wilson & Commercial St West, Mount Gambier, SA (bookings 0435 423 636) *
25 July 1 pm Alma Sports Centre, 1 Wilks St Caulfield North, Melbourne, bookings Ticketek
25 July 7.00pm , 23 Melverton Drive, Hallam Vic (Catch the fire church building) no bookings
26 July 7.00 pm Wagga Wagga Comfort Inn function room, Cnr Morgan & Tarcutta Streets (bookings 0432827254)
27th July 2pm Griffith, Gemini Hotel, 201-207 Banna Ave, (Bookings 0435423636)
Ticketek Phone 132 849
http://premier.ticketek.com.au
*UPDATED 11/7/2011
For further information go to http://climatesceptics.net
or http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com
*Monckton speaking only.
Surely some mistake; CSIRO as a sponsor of the AMEC Convention 2011 with Christopher Monckton as an invited speaker.
10
Surely there is someone with some credibility who could have spoken? This is a pretty serious forum.
10
Jo,
What, no public Perth appearance? The natives will be restless about this. The Viscount was mobbed at his last visit with attendees overflowing into an ante-room to watch his presentation on a screen – and they were still happy to fork out the price of entry.
That magic multiplier, word of mouth, will have greatly enhanced the Viscount’s reputation since then. Who knows, maybe he could fill a stadium? Any chance of organising a presentation in Perth? He will actually be in Perth and, after all, the good Lord now has (tacit) CSIRO approval. I’m sure a small army of volunteers would miraculously appear should you call for help in organising a Perth appearance.
10
Also, what of the Great Socialist People’s Jamahiriya of Denison, electorate of Andrew Wilkie and (sometime) State seat of Sen. Bob Brown? Tasmania generously contributes Sen. Milne as well as Brown and Wilkie to this pleasant, current phase of democratic government, after all.
10
Deadman, we tried to get Monckton in for a private briefing with our independents; we got the runnaround; who wants intellectual fodder when the fat of the land is the null hypothesis? The independents are not [political] fools; in that race always bet on self-interest and for the independents Monckton is just iron in the saddle-bags.
As for Brown, Milne and Wilkie; what can I say; aliens walk amongst us.
10
Jo, there is a better link to ticketek. Your link goes to the general Ticketek site but the link HERE goes to the Lord Monckton page of Ticketek.
10
Geoff Brown: June 10th, 2011 at 5:44 pm,
Actually the link you give goes to a post on your http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com/ site and on there there is a link to here.
10
Geoff Brown: #6
Nice Try Geoff, but it looks like Stylo’s got your number, mate.
10
MattB: #2
I agree that this is a pretty serious forum. Who would you suggest?
10
Twiggy or Gina surely could have been briefed up to be full bore on the SAY NO arguments – I mean they are demi-gods in the industry and cannot be brushed off with a bit of a giggle. Or a scientist. Or a Geologist. Not an obscure british peer of dubious repute and a knack for making things up, using dodgy graphs, and continuing to use dodgy graphs when pointed out to him, and a preference for using Latin words to sound smart.
That said no doubt the crowd will lap him up.
Monckton just does not seem like the hero of Australia’s exploration miners! He’d be eaten alive in Laverton or Port Headland for example.
10
MattB says: “He’d be eaten alive in Laverton or Port Headland for example.” Do you mean literally? I find it difficult to believe that an AGW believer would even suggest such a thing after the shocking revelations of the email threats made against those poor, hard-working AGW scientists. Is this some sort of payback?
10
Ha indeed Cohenite… eaten alive by all those loony lefties in Laverton and Port Headland. No I just meant for being a pompous pommy peer.
10
MattB @ 10
Matt, if you’re going to insist on just being a sh#t stirrer who brings nothing substantial to the conversation, at least try and get your ridiculous statements to reflect something pertaining to the real world.
Twiggy has no interest in anything other than making money and testing the destructive power of cyclones by leaving entire work crews helpless in their path, and Gina’s only interest at the moment is in turning the whole of Northern Australia into a cheap Asian “temporary work visa” work zone.
http://www.andev-project.org/
Or is this just your version of the “backed by ‘big oil'” or in this case ‘big mining’ meme? Please, please tell us where we sign up?
As for Monckton using dodgy graphs, in your opinion how does he rate on that count compared to the Goracle and his 20 foot high “temperature versus CO2” graph, complete with cherry-picker – talk about an appropriate stage prop.
If any of you eco-Fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultists were capable of original thought and a little bit of research you’d discover that there is a whole lot to use to pick REAL holes in Monckton.
Fortunately or not, since your side are incapable of thought, original or otherwise, there’s no danger of any kind of meaningful of expose of the truth.
10
MattB @ 10
Actually, Monckton is very, very popular in Port Hedland where BHP ship their iron ore from. I have supplied, on request, many copies up there of his speeches, to both residents and FIFO personnel.
Maybe the town of Port Headland of which you write is different? Where is it?
10
Mattb: ha ha. You are kidding right? Monckton has more cred in Port Hedland than the likes of Tim Flannery. You think country folk might be against British peers, but you haven’t seen how the folk who produce real things detest the inner city cafe latte set who want to tell them how to live.
If I wanted to I could quite rib you about the condescending put-downs you make about people from regional areas. (Surely you are not implying they are simpletons who judge a person by their title alone?)
Geoff and STylo, thanks for the better ticketek link. Updated 🙂
10
Twiggy and co won’t move on the say no issue until all the ugly deceitful details of the wealth redistribution tax are exposed ! Methinks having looked over some of the bigger company’s early assessments , that this tax will not be to their advantage . Most reports so far shoot more holes in this propaganda campaign than a colander . Combet has underestimated the backlash from big coal . Wait and see , the miners know this is not good for them or Australia . They still require a level playing field to remain competitive with some of the huge Mongolian coal fields selling into China alone. Twiggy & co are smart they run global business that make money ! ( note to ALP That’s Make money not throw it away ) they also know what a great country we have and wouldnt wish to see it go backwards any further than it has now . No one in the minority Socialists would last a week in their employ , On the other hand sit men who run global business worth billions .
You cannot do that unless you use common sense and logic , something our politicians find difficult to comprehend , let alone use ! For my two bobs worth they will grind the ALP into the dust along with about 80% of Aussies at the next opportunity !
10
C’mon Matt B, why don’t you get along to a meeting and put your questions to the man face to face. If he’s as full of holes as you believe, it shouldn’t be too hard. Except that it’s always harder to say to someone’s face what you say behind their back. Jo; yes, us country cousins tend to take people as we find ’em – and we’ve got all sorts. A person is judged more by what they do than what they say, and smartasses are just ignored.
10
Stylo@7
WTF?
The link that I gave as you you say was to the TCS blogspot and the link you used was on that same website. The TCS (ie the Climate Sceptics Party) have brought Lord Christopher Monckton to Australia and are promoting the East Coast Lord Monckton 2011 tour. The ticketek link that you quoted (and downloaded from the TCS blog) was organised by The Climate Sceptics (TCS) so what is your point?
The full details of the TCS 2011 tour of Lord Christopher Monckton can be found here
Stylo? or non-Stylo?
10
Rereke says:
“Nice Try Geoff, but it looks like Stylo’s got your number, mate.”
No, mate if you see my answer to Stylo, you can see that Stylo was out of style.
The Climate Sceptics organised and paid for the 2011 Lord Monckton tour and arranged the Ticketek link for tickets.
Tickets here
Thanks
10
Haven’t really followed his career or writings but a little bit of googling established that this Cambridge educated classicist (obviously not of the arty farty variety) can hold his own in debate with the best Climate alarmist scientists. Check out the mauling he gave to American scientist John Abraham who had the temerity to try to poke holes in a Monckton lecture in the US. Professor John Abraham it seems quickly backed down when he was shown to be lying about what he claimed Monckton had said in a lecture. Though Abrahams was not a full blown climate scientist, he was pretty sure he knew more than Monckton, whose lecture he had attended and angrily left. It does seem that he got some advice for his rebuttal of Monckton from climate scientists who in terms of the nonsense he put in print were obviously about as clueless as he was.
Monckton unlike Al Gore in his invariable response to skeptics doesn’t run from debate with the alarmist scientists. Monckton it seems to me is the skeptics Al Gore with the difference being that Al doesn’t know much about the science at all.
Guess that’s why skeptics love him.
10
As an after thought, loves both of them.
10
LLew Jones @20 says Lord Monckton.. “can hold his own in debate with the best Climate alarmist scientists.”
True – but Lord Monckton is NOT a Climate scientist (is there any? TIC)
LM is so A) Intelligent and
B) is well aware of the science that he can hold his own against any of the Climategate CRU.
Why won’t any of the Climategate CRU debate:
Carter;
Plimer;
Linzen;
Ball;
Spencer;
Parltridge;
Deacon;
Vince Gray;
Why? Because the AGW hypothesis has been falsified and put to bed.
See http://tiny.cc/i6rx4 and before before rereke has a reregurgation – it is going back to the TCS (The Climate Sceptics) blog – the TCS who are paying, with a small amount of sponsorship, for the 2011 tour of Lord Monckton.
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Matt B @12 says: “pompous pommy peer”
Hey, Matt! It is obvious that you have never met Chris (Lord Monckton).
Why don’t you come along to one of the meetings (LINK) and see if, after meeting with him, you don’t change your opinion.
Tickets available HERE… (OK- rereke?)
10
The worst example of a YES campaign ever – makes the catty Greens look good,
http://www.sayyesaustralia.org.au/2011/05/30/community-leaders-join-call-for-carbon-price/#comment-225
If they can’t organise a YES campaign – how will they collect this CO2 Tax – probably get Peter Garett and Penny Wong to organise the new “Culling the Camel Methane Problem” and then concentrate on methane emissions on pet dogs and cats?
Keep up the good work Geoff Brown.
10
Sometimes it takes a “member of the aristocracy” to decry the “other members” of their wrong doing. As in some other “lordships” that have been very vocal AGW supporters! Monckton’s fine, as he knows its (AGW) a giant fraudulent scam and part of the “One World govt agenda”, as he has stated at Copenhagen. And who else would stand up and call Obama a communist!
10
Jo my references to Port Headland and Laverton were not intended as condescending put downs. I doubt I’d last long there either:)
Sure he’ll jet in, sound dashing, and there will be no-one there to point out his errors and flaws which are all over the web… I bet he even still uses the Pinker stuff!
10
@MattB #10
I am soooo stupid – I thought you meant the REAL Twiggy (Lesley Hornby)
(I like Gina Davis too, I was gonna book a ticket if they came)
Oh well, my suggestion of ‘Carbon Cate’, as an associate of ‘Frannie’ the maker of ‘Stupid’ and the producer of the 10:10 snuff movie dosen’t work now.
Bugger.
PS.
Why does ‘Carbon Cate’ show Frannies films at the Sydney Theatre Company anyway ?
10
“eco-Fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultists” has quite a ring to it don’t you think?
10
Dave @24; what a jolly little site that is you have linked to; I tried to post this comment:
“The carbon tax and indeed all so-called ‘solutions’ to the scam of AGW will have a detrimental effect on the economy because they are not only non-productive in themselves but destructive of productive sectors of the economy.
The experience of places like Spain, California, Greece, Italy etc shows that such measures actually produce a GDP shrinkage; this is known to the current government from a frontier Economic modelling analysis commissioned by the NSW government in 2009:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/ets-to-shrink-regional-growth/story-e6frg6nf-1225691476399
This conclusion has been confirmed by the Productivity Commission report:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/climate-policy-a-burning-issue/story-e6frgd0x-1226072611617“
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I know – O/T but ‘Death Trains’ Hansen has his job ahead of him now. His head would be near exploding!
http://blogs.forbes.com/jamestaylor/2011/06/08/ten-years-and-counting-wheres-the-global-warming/
10
@ Dave #24
Not too far off the mark there Dave
NZ have exempted Agriculture, so will Australia.
WHY.
It is not politically expedient to bulldoze thousands of (methane producing)sheep into ditches so that you can plant trees that will earn you ‘Carbon Credits”
Not a good look, especially now.
10
Geoff Brown@22
I’m pretty sure most of the climate scientists make it up for public consumption once they get lost in understanding the science. Probably because they also have a bit of trouble understanding climate “science”. Perhaps climate science doesn’t attract the brightest minds. They don’t go too well in public debates. The ones I’ve listened to don’t anyway.
10
Amazing
1062 supporters of John Abraham (Mr. Mockton challenged him) and since then needs moral support.
They are all named here http://hot-topic.co.nz/support-john-abraham/
Cohenite you won’t have any luck at http://www.sayyesaustralia.org.au/2011/05/30/community-leaders-join-call-for-carbon-price/#comment-109 posting that with Mr. Pussy Cat Green Administrator. You will be presented as the following:
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Forgot to mention. H/T to The Daily Bayonet for the link in my post @ #30.
10
The trouble is..its NOT a scientific argument anymore, the science is proven..AGW is CRAP..Its ALL geopolitical. Who advised the Australian Gov to adopt a CO2 tax? After dumb Gillard said she wasn’t having one on her watch. Im sure it came through the UNIPCC heavies or some other covert means that would have blackmailed Aussie same as NZ got blackmailed into an ETS. It wont take allot of searching to guess who’s pulling the strings.
10
MY PREDICTION (Off Topic)
The “Carbon” Tax will go through with Tony Windsors vote, and blessing.
All his prevarication, has been about backfooting the MPCCC, in order to secure a Carbon Sequestration scheme for his electorate (86000 people) and to further his own ends as a landowner.
He will retire, a rich man, before the next election.
Anyone want to bet me a Dollar ?
10
@dave #33
“Comment removed.
We have removed a comment from this thread as it was either irrelevant, spam or abuse”
.
So, on the ‘If the Mountain
won’twill come to Muhammad’ principle.(81% Mountain (Skeptics) on the Greens web site v 19% Muhammad (Apocalyptics))
Why don’t we invite all the “Say Yes” Muhammad’s to come and join our site for a debate.
The Mountain has offered.
Can “Say Yes” – REALLY – Say No ?
Make the offer Jo – The mountain is ready and waiting.
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MattB @ 28 Thumbs up (dammit) 🙂 I nearly blew my morning coffee out of parts not designed for that.
I do think you should go and attempt to heckle Monckton though. It could be good for your political career don’t you imagine?
10
MattB @ 28
Yes. Do you enjoy your success rate so far MattB?
A couple of million dead as a result of your superb campaign against DDT to fight Malaria. A couple of million more dead now and growing every day as a result of starvation because of biofuels. Untold millions already dead as a result of depriving developing nations of cheap energy.
Already.
Now as the planet goes into an entirely predicted and entirely predictable cooling period, bereft of surplus energy and surplus food, entirely, again as a consequence of the actions of, quote:
“eco-Fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultists”
like you,
it surely does have a “nice” ring to it.
I have devoted the rest of my life to ensuring that “ring” sticks to you and people like you.
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Mark D @ 38
I wonder Mark D how hilarious it seems when the people in the Northern Hemisphere start dying en mass over the next five years.
THAT’S the agenda, and nothing can stop it now.
Matt B and his fellow mass-murdering cultists have already won.
The only thing left to decide now, is how to clean up the mess.
10
Similar to some of the criticisms of Monckton, here’s a smear piece in the Guardian trying to amalgamate climate sceptics and creationists:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/jun/10/climate-sceptics-intelligent-design-multiculturalism
10
@memoryvault:
I have written some “Red Wine” Emails in the past, so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.
You are “New” to this site, compared to MattB, and to me personally, your comments regarding MattB are neither appreciated or deserved.
When you sober up, you might want to be a man, and appologise.
10
True news .. It may or may not go through , if the ALP wishes to consign itself to the wilderness for a decade or so , I’m sure it will . If the UN has Gillard by the short and curlies as some think , an election would give the ALP an out . Watch the US , the republicans are making noises about making Gore explain himself .
It may be the house of climate cards is going to collapse .
California is broke , much of it to do with green policy and green innovation ,put simply its just not cost effective at this stage . However many of the ideas are sound ( it all comes back to money in the US)
When traveling through LA and surrounds it is more than obvious the damage that has been done , it would take to long here to even touch on how bad it really is , suffice to say I have been shocked at the scale of the decline over the past 7 years I’ve been going there. In comparison Arizona although in recession , has an economy with very few green policies and is a picture of Health compared to California .The majority of states in the US who implemented green policies are scrambling to dismantle them before they end up in the same boat .
The main driving influence as stated by several US governors is that they are anti business and economically unsound at this time . From the home of capitalism this is a warning we must look at !
Should we head down this path alone with china , India , and the US sitting on the fence for now .
The odds of going the same way as California very good , that I will have a dollar on 🙂
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True News @ 42
I wrote my first articles on the “global warming scam” in 1986, before most of you were out of primary school.
My first book on the subject – “The Green Hoax Effect” was published in 1990 and is still available.
I have been dealing with the likes of MattB for over 25 years.
He is NOT your friend. There will be no apology.
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Memoryvault .. Not sure I like the way your described , still nice to know there were people like you onto this so long ago .
Cheers
A whistle blowing, muckraker from Australia seems to have uncovered the truths behind climate change/ green house claims years before climategate
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Raven @ 45
Thank you (I think).
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see Glover’s call for us all to be tattooed right now, put into action. But for EVERYBODY.
Believers in CAGW distinguished from non-believers by a simple tattoo.
That way, ten years down the track, when we are tallying up the body-count, we’ll know who to blame.
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@memoryvault: #54
I must admit, I have never written a book.
BUT I have read lots of them.
I remember the Global cooling period in the 1970’s (when the USA, UK and Australia got together to discuss how we were going to feed our respective populations)
Regarding MattB, he may not be my friend, but he is a worthy, level headed, adversary, who contributes a lot to this site.
Regarding your comments about ‘Primary School posters’, I am sure that others on this site can correct you better than I can.
I hope your book is a success for you, and I also hope that it is more succinct than your response in this post.
You may have been dealing with people who you think are the likes of MattB for over 25 years, but for your information, I expect ‘NO APOLOGY’ from MattB, why should I, what has he done wrong.
Memoryvault, we all jump to conclusions sometimes, this particular time you are wrong my freind.
MattB our Favourite Warmy.
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True News @ 47
I am going to bed now for I am old.
But in answer to your post:
MattB is here to disrupt, disorganise, and generally confound you. That is his sole purpose here. It is a pity so many of you haven’t fathomed it out.
Regarding my book, having sold 70,000+ copies in the 1990’s alone, I do not think I need your “best wishes” to make it a “best seller”.
MattB is a “plant”; a softer, gentler form of troll. Meant to win over your trust and confidence. Engage you in “polite” debate. A bit like “Lighthouse” who has just joined us.
Trust me on this – they are only here on an information-gathering exercises. Everything you reply to them with will eventually be used against you.
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@Raven #43
“If the UN has Gillard by the short and curlies as some think”
The problem is:
Rudd had Combet commit us to the UN ‘Fast Start’ and also the UN ‘Green Fund’ in Cancun.
Fast Start cost us $605 Million USD for our contribution to a $30 Billion USD Fund. (2.06%)
(This is where the over simplistic, intellectual pygmie, Ross Garnaut gets his figures from in his report. (3 x 0.6 = 1.8).
The idiot is underestimating by over 10%, no wonder he has a disclaimer in his report.
FACT:
Japan contributed 50% – $15 Billion USD to fast Start.
FACT:
Japan will NOT contribute 50% ever again.
FACT:
If Japan can contribute, the same as the USA in future years.
THEN
We, Australians, have to take up the slack, and pay $3.5 BILLION – PER YEAR – EVERY YEAR to the UN for their ‘Green Fund’
(PS. Look up UN + Honduras to see how successful it is).
You talk about Gillard’s short and curlies Raven – I guess she has a Brazillian by now mate.
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TrueNews @ 49
What a deft change of subject. How typical.
And what exactly are you trying to say?
Now:
In simple terms:
CAGW is a load of crap.
Are you with us, or ag’in us?
10
@memoryvault:
“Trust me on this – they are only here on an information-gathering exercises. Everything you reply to them with will eventually be used against you.”
We were doing this quietly till you blew our cover memoryvault:
Bugger
What was the saying during the war “Talk costs Lives” if I remember correctly.
I’m lying, I wasn’t around during WW2.
BUT, by the looks of it, I might be around for WW3.
SAD, SAD, SAD.
10
“What a deft change of subject. How typical.
And what exactly are you trying to say?
Now:
In simple terms:
CAGW is a load of crap.
Are you with us, or ag’in us?”
.
.
My God, you are arrogant, you are the type of person that makes everyone commited to the cause of defeating a ‘Carbon Tax’ look bad.
Are you a “warmist plant” ?
If not, I suggest that you:
Grow up
Shut up, when you are out of your league.
AND
Send me a copy of your book, I’m out of Loo Roll.
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In the UK the government is are raising indirect tax revenues by letting the energy companies hike their prices to cover the subsidies to so called re-newables.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=daily+mail++stealth+taxes+climate&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLD_en&redir_esc=&ei=KGryTbjzJ8K1hAeqpq3LBg
So Australia, if you win this battle don’t be surprised if they tax you through the nose via the back door?
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memoryvault: re: 40
Mattb doesn’t get many complements here and certainly not from me. On the other hand I don’t believe that “eco-Fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultist” would be an entirely correct description of Mattb.
Climate Change Cultist? sure, I’ve probably called him worse and meant it.
Eco-Fascist? maybe.
Mass Murder? not a chance.
Further, Mattyb (as some call him) has several annoying tendencies that come out sometimes:
Very poorly timed humor, Check. (especially about Tasmania)
Very bad manners, Check.
Glib “better than you” attitude, Check.
Argues from authority? YES
Never says he’s sorry, Right
Poor sense for conspiracies? again YES
Cheap when it’s his turn to buy the beer, YOU Bet!
I even accept your notion that he is a “plant” here (I’ve asked him before who pays him to take the abuse he often gets here.)
Now Memoryvault, I now realize that my comment to him about the “ring” to it, accidentally caused collateral damage by offending you. That was my mistake as no offense was meant to you and I apologize. Besides that, you’ll find that I’m firmly in your “camp” when it comes to opposing the useless Green agenda, the nonsensical AGW scam, the involvement of the UN in ANYTHING and any attempt at carbon control or taxes.
Sleep well
10
After reading the comments here I went to the Say Yes Australia site and posted this
“I am concerned that levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are getting dangerously low. For hundreds of millions of years CO2 levels have been decreasing.(http://www.biocab.org/carbon_dioxide_geological_timescale.html) CO2 is at the dangerously low level of less than 400 parts per million. At this very low level, plants growth is stunted. If CO2 levels drop below 150ppm almost all plants on earth will die.Admittedly there has bee a slight rise in CO2 in the last century but this may just be a temporary rise caused by warming oceans. Plants are constantly removing CO2 from the atmosphere and not all of this is returned to the atmosphere.
We could of course slow the decline of CO2 by burning fossil fuels, but we could make greater progress in returning the atmosphere to a condition that is beneficial to ecosystems by also treating limestone with acid to release the CO2 trapped within. I think we should aim to return the CO2 level to at least 1000ppm.”
I am waiting to see if it will be edited out. I do not think it is irrelevant, spam or abuse.
10
I think the class system is misunderstood. The working classes tend to get on well with the upper class, it is the class-climbing, step-on-anyone-to-get-ahead middle class they hate. Don’t take that from me, take that from my Yorkshire-based nephew-in-law. I think he has a fair idea of what he is talking about.
Monckton would be able to entertain and educate a crowd in Port Hedland as well as Melbourne. That is his talent.
10
Now that MattB is thoroughly dissected (for the 723.4 th time ;-)) and a couple of people have wasted our time in the process — after Monkton, what?
He’s going to be preaching to the choir for the most part. And he’ll not reach even a 10th of the people who need to hear what he has to say.
Just asking…
10
Now Roy, It can’t be that “thorough a dissection” as I’m sure his lips will still be moving……
10
I see the tosser Richard Glover is pushing the threatening email angle now that he has earned the wrath of the net for his ridiculous piece in which he advocated forcibly tattooing “deniers” and possibly putting them to death (he skirts that point in his latest piece):
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/a-climate-change-wave-of-hate-20110609-1ftix.html
The guy really doesn’t get it. He thought he was being funny, but his humour worked as well as that of the 10:10 campaign. The SMH should get a clue and pull him. ATM they are loving the circulation (virtual) boost of course. Perhaps a few companies that sponsor the paper with advertising should be notified of the garbage being associated with their ads. Especially if they have Jewish connections… I am sure they would “love” his original article.
He is so entrneched in teh inner-city, green-leaning latte mindset he doesn’t understand that his “humour” seriously pisses rational people off.
10
Can anyone advise of teh approriate ombudsman or authority to complain about this guy? He really crossed the line and the current non-apology does not wash with me. He needs a bit of education time IMHO.
10
I am delighted that he is visiting Australia again but disapointed that he will not visit Canberra. I wonder if the likes of John Quiggin will have the courage to face him? Unlikely after what he did to Readfearn in Brisbane. If Quiggin and his like consider Monckton to be a buffoon then he is an easy target and they should enjoyt humiliating him. Of course that will not happen because he knows his stuff. It is interesting that neither the Canberra Times (Fairfax owned) nor ABC 666 Canberra will put out retractions about the so called death threats nor publish the fact that Carbon Kate was in front of an obsolet power station closed in the UK thirty years ago and has bought beach front land in Vanuatu
10
How about Monckton vs John Cook… that would be fun.
10
MattB:
June 10th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Surely there is someone with some credibility who could have spoken? This is a pretty serious forum.
Yes, but cheap ad hominem aside, what are your issues with the man’s arguments? I mean specifically?
10
Here goes letter number two to the SMH:
It seems that you simply do not get it Richard. You posted to the internet which, I should explain apparently, is open to all to read outside of communist states that filter certain sites. Consequently when you single out a particular group and then insult them by calling them deniers (a clear association with the Nazi Holocaust), suggest they should be forcibly tattooed (another association with said Holocaust) and then tied to posts in the ocean and left to drown… what did you expect to happen? Did you think you would get a bunch of adoring fan mail with hugs and kisses?
When you spew hate speech on the internet people justifiably get miffed. Your latest piece claiming this represented misunderstood humour is not a mea culpa but simply an attack on those who wrongly threatened you in emails. I in no way support such threats, but neither can hate speech such as yours be supported in the media. Your weak attempt at a conditional apology in the last line is noted and found wanting.
Given your reticence, and the paper’s, to acknowledge this gross misjudgement, I shall make a point of elevating the original complaint to the appropriate authorities. I shall also make a point of directing your advertisers to this article, particularly those that may have Jewish connections and/or interests. I am sure they will find your piece as entertaining as others already have.
Should you think of removing the article, please be aware that all web pages are cached… in the language of the internet this was an epic fail.
Sincerely,
Mike Wilson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t think I went overboard… so now I have something to do for the morning while I game on the side 🙂
10
memoryvault, I haven’t seen anything by Mattb that adds any value here either. It appears we have a new troll in TrueNews that we can poke with sticks.
Climate Change Cultist? sure, I’ve probably called him worse and meant it.
Eco-Fascist? maybe.
Mass Murder? not a chance.
The Mass Murdering follows as the night follows the day. It is a little more subtle than shooting or gassing but as Stalin and Mao found out, starvation will do nicely.
10
IPCC…..
International Panel of Climate Crooks
10
Monckton has a canny knack for handling hostile crowds & hostile panels of inquisitors alike.
Here by his own account he tells of calming a mob of angry miners who were after Thatcher’s blood.
… the day I stopped a riot with my bowler
While he seems to admire the bowler it does nothing for him. It was the man who faced the mob.
On the other hand, he was the only witness the right side of the House could find to face the arrogant, rude & hostile questioning from a US congressional committee.
Here he is holding his own against some very powerful and ignorant inquisitors, together with their cosy coterie of hapless warmist academics.
Incredible performance.
Matt B. , you really would be doing yourself a favour by getting along to see him perform in person, rather than relying on the jaundiced view ones gets from relying on the likes of Deltoid for their impressions.
Even Timmy couldn’t resist going along go see him and was clearly impressed, even if he was more taken with his own performance.
Monckton before Congress
10
Rod @ 41; comparing sceptics to creationists is old hat and is extremely ironic since one of the leading sceptics, Plimer, actually sued the creationists.
The comparison of sceptics with Al Qaeda is also ironic since osama and his ilk have expressed support of AGW:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/29/osama-bin-laden-climate-change
In the True News, MattB and memoryvault debate, I think the latter is spot on.
10
MattB@28
“eco-Fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultists”
Just idly watching a European News program on SBS this morning with the sound off. I saw all the stands of lovely vegetables and lots of interviews with serious looking scientists, I guess that’s what they were, when it dawned on me.
With all those other under employed scientists wasting their time (and ours) telling us what devastating things agricultural and otherwise our CO2 contributions will do in a hundred or more years why not put them into useful employment to investigate the things that could save lives, and keep vegetable farmers in work right now?
I mean governments could charge the major polluters an e coli tax and everyone except the big polluters (and vegetable eaters) would be happy and even the vegetables on a more concentrated diet of growth promoting carbon gas would also be better off. If only those eco-Fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Pie in the Sky Cultists had their feet connected to the real present Earth.
10
Mark D. @58,
Au contraire, I’m sure you know it’s his fingers that are moving, not his lips. 🙂
In any case, I don’t think one more thrashing around helps anything. As Jo says, he’s polite and doesn’t engage in name calling. So I don’t think he deserves the beating up he sometimes gets.
10
Apparently Moncktons affinity for handling crowds was learned from his Training with St John’s ambulance . Thats also something he put to good use in the crowds at Copenhagen in Dec. 09, but didn’t stop him from getting thumped by an aggressive UN stormtrooper., though the police thug will have probably come off the worse in the end. He was tangling with a true Knight of St. John after all.
10
Is this guy really that naive ? I mean it , plainly he is still breast feeding .
Welcome to The United States of America !!!! They know a communist
When they see one 🙂 Many will not rest until the scourge of communism is finally laid to rest !
Welcome to the real world you ignorant little man !!!
………………………..glover writes below
right-wing website in the US, offering me up as another communist trying to ruin the world through the ”hoax” of climate change. The piece started multiplying in cyberspace, mainly on websites dedicated to exposing the leftist conspiracy about
10
A little off topic.
While listening to ABC radio this morning, this little gem, while they have not been able to get any poitive results from test to pinpoint cause of e-coli in Germany, experts are 100% sure bean sprouts are to blame.
After blaming everything but the kitchen sink in the last week and being wrong, lets all point the finger at the next vegetable in the room.
Looks a lot like another branch of science I could name.
10
Memo to MattB ;
This is why we need people like Jo and Chris Monckton –to help fight where your crowd of nutters is taking us
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/10/nature-to-worlds-people-stop-your-modern-living/#more-41429
10
@18 I agree that the party you name has organised the tour, I object to your claim that the CSP will be bringing Chris out. I have been party to all the communications since the proposed tour around the election last year, I know of the presumed boost to the CSP fund (don’t object) and appreciate the effort of the CSP in arranging the tour but I won’t stand by and let you claim that your party was instrumental in either funding or organising Chris to visit Australia.
I strongly advise that you retract that statement.
10
TrueNews @ 52
Buy your own copy.
Last I checked second hand copies were available from Amazon at US $40.00 to $150.00.
10
@ #51 “BUT, by the looks of it, I might be around for WW3.”
One of the main causes for war is religious.. when a religious group tries to push its religion onto people who don’t accept that religion.
So yes, you might be around for WW3, AS THE CAUSE !.
10
I just went back to the Say What? Australia site.( http://www.sayyesaustralia.org.au/2011/05/30/community-leaders-join-call-for-carbon-price/ ) and my comment (see comment 55 above) is nowhere to be seen. It is no longer awaiting moderation. Just Gone.
Obviously not a place that encourages free speech then. I don’t suppose they will be buying tickets to hear his Lordship.
10
scaper@75; I’m sure Geoff didn’t mean to tread on any toes; of course TCS did not bring LM to Australia; credit to those who did; as you concede TCS memebers have helped organise the East coast tour by LM, Jo and David; others are organising the Noosa stop; it is a combined effort and I appreciate anyone who gives their time and money, such as Geoff, to the cause of stopping the AGW band-wagon and the obscene waste of money associated with it.
10
Thanks for clearing that up cohers. Sorry about a bad choice of words scaper!
10
John in NZ, an account of Say Yes Australia’s fear of criticism can be found at Say “Yes” to More Taxes, where any comment is accepted.
10
If AGW was Jonestown, the warmists would be the ones downing the cool aid.
10
To all present; if warmists prevail it will only be because skeptics have a serious problem recognizing their own children. Generally, it is ill advised to eat your own kind.
Word up! (or to you old dumb asses): pay attention to whom you shit upon!
Good day dumb asses………. Oh I mean cheers…….no I don’t mean cheers there is little to fu**ing cheer about and you “cheery” cheeky Aussie dumbasses need to stop eating your own.
There I feel pseudo-better………Like I ate Graeme Crackers…..
10
Geoff Brown: #19
Yes, I see your point.
My sincere apologies – I was wrong.
10
today, the duplicitous murdoch media has this:
11 June: Australian: Paul Kelly: Report a mixed blessing for Labor
While Abbott has exploited brilliantly the electoral downside of a carbon tax, this report will help Labor hammer the economic argument that time is running out for Abbott’s policy credibility. Over the long run his response is untenable and will require revision. Labor is determined to frame this as an economic issue to strike at the Coalition’s economic management competence…
This leads directly to the report’s second big message for Australia’s political system, Labor, Coalition, Green and independents – if you believe in fiscal responsibility and consumer fairness you must wind back the long sanctified and hugely inefficient renewable-energy policies designed to milk votes via gesture politics.
The commission found that subsidies for solar photovoltaic systems were the costliest way of winning abatement in every country studied. It found most biofuel subsidies were “high-cost means of achieving abatement”. It found policy support for renewable energy projects “more expensive” than carbon pricing…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/report-a-mixed-blessing-for-labor/story-e6frgd0x-1226073260714
and on the same day a cry for more “certainty” for the solar industry (even tho the mis-named Productivity Commission view on renewables is squeezed in):
11 June: Australian: Rebecca Puddy: Rush to grab on-off solar subsidy
Mr Rawson said his family’s solar panel business in Adelaide was booming, but called for greater certainty over the future of government assistance for the renewable energy industry.
“Each time a different politician tries to talk about solar subsidies, they say they’ll axe them altogether or they’ll cut a bit here or there,” he said.
“We’re trying to run a business and it feels like the government is working against us.”…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/rush-to-grab-on-off-solar-subsidy/story-fn59niix-1226073260385
the coalition are as much to blame as labor/greens and i cannot stand any of them and none will get my vote.
10
@61 My invitation to debate Monckton was withdrawn last time, and I didn’t get one this time. But Tim Lambert gave him a pasting, IIRC.
As an economist, I’m happy to debate anyone on the proposition “A Carbon Tax will bankrupt Australia”. Hint – it’s about a quarter the size of the GST, about which similar claims proved false.
10
Geoff Brown: #23 and
Geoff Brown: # 23 and …
I have already apologized for my mistake, which was to assume that the addresses were transposed. And yes, I did fail to verify the facts at the time, due to working on a Saturday (my time) and being a bit busy.
But at least you have an apology, and a withdrawal, both of which are more than you will ever get from a climate catastrophist.
Pax Australis?
10
Mark D at 83
Well said – but I thought Graham Crackers were a foul tasting Presbyterian Biscuit to prevent lusting carnal tendencies? May work on the Greens Angry Cat too!
Also notice Graham Readfearn’s blog has only 2 comments regarding Monckton Tour – big following this bloke! http://www.readfearn.com/2011/05/been-there-bought-the-skeptic-t-shirt/
10
A reaction to Say Yes Australia’s “send a lying letter to your neighbour” campaign is Say “Yes” to the Usual Lies.
10
the Logan Council has just removed the following warning from its website and will not now be including the tip in a brochure:
26 May: Beef Central: Council tells residents to eat less beef for environment
Ratepayers in a large council area of South East Queensland are being urged to cut their consumption of red meat to help the environment.
The Logan City Council south of Brisbane offers tips on its website advising its 280,000 residents on ways to slow climate change…
One councillor has broken ranks by making comments on his Facebook page criticising a recent council vote to spend $6000 on a flyer to inform residents about ways to reduce global warming…
Logan City Council’s boundaries south of Brisbane take in numerous beef cattle farming enterprises and also one of Australia’s largest meat processing plants owned by Teys Brothers, a major source of employment in the area. It is also one of the highest population growth areas in Australia…
She (Meat and Livestock Australia’s community communications manager Samantha Jamieson) said a council spokesman explained that the advice had been posted after council staff found information from the CSIRO on the internet showing that livestock accounted for 10pc of Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions…
http://www.beefcentral.com/p/news/article/116
someone stop the madness…
10
Osama Bin Laden Favours Kyoto Protocol, Environmentalism……..
http://spectator.org/blog/2010/02/01/osama-bin-laden-favors-kyoto-p
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“MattB” (2),
Obviously YOU would rather lisen to LIES and pROPAGANDA from your Gaia Cultists than Real Scientific FACTS……..
You are indeed a deeply troubled soul.
10
CORRECTION:
It appears that memoryvault, AndyG55, and Mike Borgelt think that I am some kind of Climate Evangelist because I took offence at one of memoryvault’s comments, and supported MattB’s right to post here without being abused.
“It appears we have a new troll in TrueNews that we can poke with sticks.”
.
Below is Jo’s comment from the ‘swearing-equals-a-death-threat’ thread.
Joanne Nova:
June 9th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Mattb, … I’m glad that you post here. Fans of AGW who are as well mannered and good humoured as you are are rare indeed, and your contribution would be missed.
It is a sentiment I share.
.
For the record:
I am fervently opposed to a ‘Carbon Tax’, and I can not think of one instance where I have agreed with MattB.
.
I do however respect MattB’s right to post on this site, and I consider that @memoryvault’s comment #13, refering to mattB as an “eco-Fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultist”, offensive.
It is the type of comment that, if an ousider were to read it, could leave the impression that we were a bunch of ‘Climate Taliban’ on some sort of Jihad.
It is not the kind of impression that many of the, well researched, intelligent, and humerous posters on this site would wish to leave.
My own perception of MattB, gleaned from reading many of his posts, is that he is a Nuclear Energy supporting Capitalist.
(It would be a strange mix for a Greenie Cultist)
.
I hope this corrects any misconceptions.
.
10
So MattB is a “Nuclear Energy supporting Capitalist”? Wait a minute, that must mean MattB is Jimmy Hansen!
10
No worries, Geoff. All the best to the speakers and organisors of the tour.
Good people do something.
10
TrueNews @ 92
CAGW is not about a “carbon tax” and political advantage.
Politicians did not jump onto this wagon until relatively recently when they decided it was a vote winner and the opportunity to increase income. Mainstream politicians, in fact, were the last sub-group to climb aboard.
CAGW is not about Big Business and profits.
Big Business were also relative late-comers to the trough. They arrived when they discovered there was, indeed a “trough” and terms like “green” and “sustainable” could sell products.
CAGW is not a product of the Green Movement.
Greenpeace, the WWF, the Conservation Foundation, and other “green” groups did not “invent” CAGW. They were early adapters because they were slipped a lot of money to get the ball rolling in the public eye.
The people who put the idea of CAGW together in the first place, paid for the likes of Maurice Strong to lay down the purpose and format of the IPCC, financed and promoted shonky scientists to produce bulldust science, and threw bucket-loads of money at the Greenies to get the whole thing rolling, had only one main objective.
To kill a lot of people.
Preferably a couple of billion people.
Now that they have succeeded – for nothing can now change what is about to happen over the next decade or so – all of them, from the original planners, to their sycophant Greenies, to the bent scientists, the power-hungry politicians and corrupt businesses that have attempted to profit from all this, stand convicted, by their own actions of being:
eco-fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultists.
including MattB and all the others of his ilk.
10
The price of its global warming alarmism suddenly becomes clear to the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union…..
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_price_of_its_alarmism_suddenly_becomes_clear_to_the_cfmeu/
Productivity Commission confirms we’ve been fed one falsehood after another…
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/productivity_commission_confirms_weve_been_fed_one_falsehood_after_another/
10
Only a couple of billion? I thought the idea was to get rid of all but one billion or so. That makes it 6 billion to kill.
I think you are right memoryvault. This isn’t about science any more. Those pushing the carbon taxes etc are not interested in science. The politicians, business and loony green cults are just useful idiots. Perhaps they imagine they’ll be amongst the chosen survivors?
This is war for the survival of technical civilisation. It isn’t nice, it isn’t polite and I suggest we take no prisoners.
10
Geoff Brown: June 10th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
Now I see the true story. I just suspected that it was shameless self-promotion to go to your site first, rather than the actual link which you claimed you had.
Perhaps a link to your blog and the actual link would be advisable next time, because it was slightly misleading, although well-intended.
I am on the same side as you and the climate sceptics is a party supported by me. Thanks for organising Moncky to come out here.
10
“Wait a minute, that must mean MattB is Jimmy Hansen!”
not as smart, but better looking.
10
Instead of scaring pensioners in RSL clubs why doesn’t the Lord give a seminar at Aspendale?
And ya gotta love Nova’s for this sort of stuff “eco-fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultists” – wow – anyway aren’t we glad we safely buried those semi-autos in the back paddock when Howard asked us to hand them in. We could form a citizen’s militia and defend our freakdom.
10
memoryvault: #96
What does your memory tell you about Fenton Communications, the Tides Foundation, and the Tides Center?
As a memory jogger, Fenton Communications specializes in public relations around social issues such as the environment, peace, health, et cetera. They have done a lot of PR promoting the Tides Foundation in “the right circles”, in order to attract donations from the rich and famous in the US.
These donations are then funneled by the Tides Foundation to the Tides Centre who use the monies to fund worthy causes, including “climate research”. The whole thing is a sophisticated money laundering process that is hiding in plain sight. It is is legal under US law because the two organizations are separate in their ownership and management, they just “happen” to work together. Also, the Tides Center has been known to engage Fenton Communications to publicize the results of “climate research”. Isn’t that just cosy?
From what we can tell, the Tides Foundation is one of the main conduits of funding in support of CAGW. A lot of it is “old money”, that is donated by people who would prefer to remain anonymous. The US Government requires that a proportion of such inherited wealth be donated to charity – hence the very deep pockets behind the scam.
As an aside, Fenton Communications also appear to have been the subject of an investigation coordinated by a private security firm: Beckett Brown International, that ran for three years from 1998 to 2001. That is a long time to run that type of operation, and BBI do not come cheap, so whoever was funding them, sure had deep pockets. There are lots of layers to this onion.
10
Outrider@101; we can dig up the semi-autos now and use them for the gov’t’s latest plan to reduce carbon emissions:
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/government/initiatives/carbon-farming-initative/methodology-development/methodologies-under-consideration/management-of-feral-herbivores.aspx
Idiot.
10
@memoryvault #96
“CAGW is not about a “carbon tax””
Yes memoryvault, I have read Agenda 21, (and I must admit it was far more interesting than reading Kyoto).
I am aware of the agenda of Maurice Strong and his cohorts, Soros and Rockefella.
I have even read extensively on the Club of Rome and I understand the point you are trying to make.
(You even get idiots like flannery making vague reference to it in his ‘ANT’ analogy in a TV interveiw)
.
Strong will never ever see his goal realised in his lifetime.
The legacy he will leave for our CAGW indoctrinated schoolchildren however, could be the subject of a whole new conversation.
(The following interveiw with him – December 2010 – might just cheer you up)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00c7r3x
.
The point I was trying to make, is that your comment “eco-fascist mass-murdering Catastrophic Climate Change Cultists” was inapropriate.
In fact, it has already been picked up by our latest ‘Warmist’ @Outrider #101 and will probably be used against Jo Nova as a site.
.
Regarding the ‘Carbon Tax’
I am here as a direct consequence of it.
I do not know the Science that well, but there are are lot of smart people on this site that have significantly improved my knowledge.
.
I will ask one very simple question:
If both you and I were to go out on the street, to try to persuade ‘Warmists’ to change their minds on Climate Change, then which would be the more effective arguament:
1. Maurice Strong has a new Global World Order planned for you.
OR
2. The Carbon Tax is going to cost you $860 a year.
.
A War is won by fighting many battles memoryvault, the stupid thing is that we both want the same result, but have different methods.
.
I think @Mark D: #83 put it perfectly.
“if warmists prevail it will only be because skeptics have a serious problem recognizing their own children”
10
@cohenite: #103
The latest ‘Warmist’ not only has a stash of guns.
Unfortunately, we have now supplied him with the Ammo to use.
.
Do the idiots on the ‘climatechange.gov.au’ link not realise that Feral Camels are not included under Kyoto – It won’t reduce our counted emissions.
.
I Confer with your assesment Cohenite.
“Idiots”
10
Rereke,
Tides foundation – tied to Aspen Institute http://www.aspeninstitute.org/ Via a board member: Anne Mosle (Anne Mosle is Executive Director of Ascend at The Aspen Institute).
If you want to take a walk into the world of US (world) Fabian politics, look deeply at Aspen institute. from their site for starters: http://www.aspeninstitute.org/sites/default/files/content/docs/about/GREATMOMENTS.pdf
Then take a look at the number and party affiliation of all the various politicians sent to “seminars” paid for by Aspen. (this will take some effort as I don’t have a single link to offer. example: http://www.legistorm.com/trip/list/by/approver/id/402/name/Rep_Jim_Oberstar_MN/submenu/personal.html let me know if you want more. (you might enjoy the legistorm site. Damian too)
scroll down in this link to read more about Aspen: http://www.scribd.com/doc/34630074/Congressman-Tom-Cole-You-take-the-king%E2%80%99s-shilling-you-become-the-king%E2%80%99s-man-Notes
Oh what a tangled web we weave….
Apologies if any of this is redundant as memory is the second thing to go
10
Mark D. @83,
It should be said to our own here in the U.S. as well.
In case anyone hasn’t noticed it, we are in a war, a war for the survival of our national sovereignty, our culture and our freedom. It’s here, it’s in Australia, it’s all over Europe and it’s everywhere. Whether a “carbon” tax will bankrupt Australia or not is not the point. The tax itself is the point. Do not let it happen! It will be one more iron fist around the throat of Australia. And you have too many of those already — witness the willful destruction of the Thompsons or Peter Spencer if you need to be convinced.
Stop the infighting and recognize the common foe. Get organized while you still can and start acting with a common cause to rally around. Be ready to take some risk to rid your country of your enemy. IF YOU CANNOT DO IT NO ONE WILL COME TO HELP AND YOU WILL FALL!
Readers everywhere, no matter where, think real hard about this. The noose is tightening around our collective necks, little by little, slowly, a tiny bit every day.
10
MemoryVault #48:
I beg to differ. Mattb has been coming here since the beginning, and I have seen his comments on deltoid even daring to suggest that occasionally skeptics have a point, and referring to this site. That’s a high risk activity for anyone on a deltoid thread.
What you say is true of the anonymous trolls, but Matt is not a troll. He uses a real name, is a real person (yes I can confirm that) and has genuine responses. He will reply to a point if it really calls for it.
And he contributes to the site — I know he might drive you crazy — but he asks questions I (we) just can’t think of. Sometimes they are a springboard for great skeptical responses. He is possibly the only person on the planet (apart from maybe John Brookes) who alternates reading Deltoid with JoNova.
10
@John Quiggin: #86
“As an economist, I’m happy to debate anyone on the proposition “A Carbon Tax will bankrupt Australia”. Hint – it’s about a quarter the size of the GST, about which similar claims proved false.”
John
Is it Carbon Tax + Mining Tax + GST
OR Just
Carbon Tax + GST
Then
Mining Tax + GST
.
Perhaps you would like to debate the effect on Schools, Hospitals, State and Local Goverments, Fire and Police services etc.
(How much GST do they pay ?)
Perhaps then, I might get a better understanding of why my Rates are going to go up and the Street Lighting will need to be switched off by my Local Council.
.
And you want to debate Monkton !!!
.
Read Gotleibson, he has an interesting take on the new ‘Carbon Resourses Tax’.
Oh, and after that, we could debate the effect on BlueScope Steel, and their ability, in veiw of their current losses, to buy the infrastucture needed to reduce C02-e emissions.
(I am sure ‘Connelly’ would love to join in on this one)
.
Ask 3 Economists a question and you will get 3 different answers.
10
Mark D: #106
Thanks for the references Mark. I think I may have seen the material you mention, but if I have, I probably came to it via a different route. When I get a moment, I will be interested to check. (As you know, this is not my day job).
10
TrueNews: #109
This is only true if you ask each Economist individually. If you ask the three Economists as a group, you are guaranteed to get a number of opinions that is greater than seven, because they will argue with each other, and argue as a group, and change their positions repeatedly to avoid agreeing with anybody.
They are only marginally better than Epistemologists, in my opinion.
Trust me on this, I am an Engineer 🙂
10
If a carbon DIOXIDE (PLANT FOOD) tax is more efficient, then scrap everything else…..
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/if_a_carbon_tax_is_more_efficient_then_scrap_everything_else/
10
Rereke Whakaaro@111
Amen to that.
My late brother who taught maths at ANU and La Trobe and co-athored a few maths books told me he taught only one economics student who had any conception of mathematics.
Unable to check with him but I have growing suspicions about Climatologists inadequacies, particularly of the alarmist variety. Not only with maths.
10
Dave @ 88, Thank you, but I spelled Graeme quite correctly in my previous post.
A Bird in the hand is funnier (if you re-read Graeme Cracker).
10
Memoryvault, (@ various) so if I buy into your particular paranoia, why would I not include YOU as one of the bad guys? You could be one of those “Deep Trolls” that appear to be on the friendly team but then spend time slowly white anting the team.
10
Hi is Memoryvault Peter Sawyer of “The Green Hoax Effect” ~ 1988 whistle blower from the 80’s who I know from Albury/Wondoga many years ago?
This book was “blowing the whistle” on the DAGW scam before it started.
10
True News @ 24. Garnaut did not exempt agriculture from carbon taxing, he wants it introduced like NZ BY 2015. Check out the latest from NZ. He wanted farmers to change to kangaroo farming too, to cut emissions, just google Garnaut on methane emissions. This man came to New England, and said farmers could earn as much from carbon trading (soil carbon sequestration)as they would wool production. Ever tried to shear or milk a kangaroo Ross. What a faux pas, in an area renown for fine wool production and sustainable farming methodology. Didn’t go down
tooo well here.
We are in trouble when this government listens just to incompetents on the carbon trading gravy train. This is serious folks. Billions have been invested in carbon trading schemes, and when it goes belly up, as it appears to be, countries will be seriously hurt.
http;//tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/agriculture-pay-technology-goff-4183453
Daily Telegraph are now saying the MPCCC should hear from the likes of Bob Carter, Tim Ball (being sued by Michael Mann) and other credible anti-AGW SCIENTISTS.
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Rereke @ 111. Wot’s a epistemologist? LOL.
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Bush bunny @ 118
A climate scientist who has had a few too many.
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Mark D @ 115
Sorry Mark, you’ll have to be more specific.
I have so many of them . . .
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Coldix @ 116
The 80’s seems like half a lifetime ago.
Come to think of it, it WAS a half a lifetime ago.
10
@120 I’d say that answer represents 1,000,000 white ants.
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Mark D @ 122
1,000,000 you say?
Oh good.
One for each paranoia.
Seriously Mark, I think you are reading far too much into this.
At post #13 I labelled MattB and his ilk as responsible for what is coming, and some people took umbrage at that. Apparently MattB is really our bestest friend.
So at post #39 I spelled out exactly why I thought the way I did and what my motivation was, and at post #40 I explained the current situation as I see it to you in even simpler terms.
At that point you (and others) seem to have decided to declare war, although for the life of me I don’t understand why.
If you (or anybody else) has a problem with my summation of where we are and what is going to happen now as outlined in #39 and #40, then please say so, and I will try to explain why I think you are wrong.
Or maybe I am wrong.
It’s as simple as that.
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memoryvault @123
Singleing out MattB to direct all ones ire at and putting all that stuff on him (about DDT etc) is perhaps what could have made some here uncomfortable.
Keeping the distinction between the individual, and their views makes for better communication as well as leaving them more open to redemption. Though I suspect some of Matt B’s are only playing devils advocate. We mustn’t turn on him as one of the few ‘warmists’ or whatever he would see himself , that dare to come out on this forum.
There are plenty of forums littering this subject area where vitriol, guilt by association and personal attacks are expected and it can sometimes be difficult to realise at once when one isn’t on one of them.
10
Bush bunny: #118
epistemologist: A person who studies epistemology.
epistemology: The branch of philosophy that studies the nature of knowledge, its presuppositions and foundations, and its extent and validity.
So, it is the “science” of recursive introspection. I thought everybody knew that.
10
Joe V @ 124
Erhhh, let’s take this from the top shall we?
I didn’t “single out” MattB. At the point I came into the discussion he had already made three posts in the first 13 – basically to whit:
Monckton has no credibility generally;
Monckton has no credibility with miners; and
Monckton is a quote “pompous pommy peer”.
Given that entire article was about promoting Monckton’s next tour here in OZ, to me, even as one who has little time for Monckton, the tone and implication of these posts was to denigrate and attack this site and all it stood for.
Everything past that point is apparently about me making somebody like MattB “uncomfortable”. So let us discuss MattB’s side of the debate.
MattB’s “side” are on record as wanting us “deniers” to:
be tattooed to delineate us to our grandchildren as mass-murderers;
be tied to stakes up to our mouths in an upcoming tide;
stand at “Nuremburg”-style trials as “criminals against humanity”,
have our children and grandchildren blown-up as “unbelievers” (no pressure);
have us assessed as “psychologically deficient” and confined to mental and/or rehabilitation centres for “re-adjustment”;
have our children taken away from us as “unfit parents”;
Have our rights to even HAVE children stripped from us, backed up with forced sterilisation for “unbelievers”;
Have all of us “unbelievers” lined up next to a trench and shot.
This is just a very short, partial list from memory off the top of my head of various threats and punishments considered and condoned by MattB’s “side”. I’m sure other posters could extend it almost ad-infinitum if they so wished.
But like you, they don’t so wish. What they “so wish” for is that somehow sanity and logic will somehow prevail and these people like MattB will somehow “come-around”.
They won’t. The likes of MattB and his ilk intend to kill you. That is not an opinion; it is a fact. They have stated it unambiguously and openly and often.
I accept that reality makes you and others “uncomfortable”.
Stiff sh#t. Get used to it.
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@memoryvault #126
“The likes of MattB and his ilk intend to kill you”
.
OK
Let us all accept, (for the moment), that your theories are correct and that MattB and all his warmist freinds intend to kill all the skepics.
(I am ‘only’ assuming it is just the skeptics that they wan’t to kill)
Could you please explain HOW they intend to do it, and the LOGIC behind your thinking.
.
I am not taking the ‘mickey’ here.
I have taken note of the ‘Whistlblower’ comment on a site that sells your book and also the same comment by @Coldix #116.
I have also taken on board that your publication was compiled ‘Pre-Internet’, and that research would have been difficult in the 1980’s.
This leads me to beleive that you may have some ‘inside’ knowledge.
.
I note your passion and insistance on this matter, but I, along with others, are at a loss as to you reasoning. All we have at the moment, is your word, that the warmists intend to kill us.
Can you please enlighten us so that at least we have some sort of evidence to assess.
10
I think the vault means that if GHG emissions were slashed as per the “warmist” science then the deaths of vast numbers of people are an almost unavoidable result. I don’t think the vault thinks me and my ilk are lining people up against the wall (at least not to the extent that it would make an impact on the planet’s population although I’m sure vaulter thinks that we’d like to!).
10
p.s. nothing that MV has said makes me uncomfortable in the slightest. The posts that concerned me were insinuation that my employer would be made aware that I possibly spend to much time on climate blogs. Getting a tad personal and gagging debate were the issues… I don’t mind anything else:)
10
re my post at 128… oh no I’m wrong, MV thinks I’m digging a trench as we speak:) lol.
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Memoryvault,
For what it’s worth, guilt by association does not fly with me. I just get angry. And that’s what you are trying to do to MattB.
You’re entitled to your opinion and now we’ve all heard it so let’s get on down the road. There are more important things to worry about than the character and secret life of MattB. Don’t let this turn into a pissing contest over one individual whose position you disagree with.
FYI: I’ve been reading and posting here since November of 2008. And for all that time I’ve had the opportunity to watch MattB. He may well believe what he says but he’s about as sinister as my cat. Our fight is with people a lot higher up the ladder than he is and our time is running out! We can’t afford to be spending time on him, much less can we afford to be split over whether he’s a horrible danger or just one more mistaken man on the street who happens to have a computer and feel passionate enough to want to say something.
You need to get organized and be out reaching Joe Citizen on the street with a common message — not how wrong or foolish they are if they believe the CAGW nonsense but how badly they have been hoodwinked by their own government and their supposedly honest and impartial forth estate (the journalist).
10
MattB,
I do mind. And guilt by association should bother you too.
10
I didn’t declare “war” I’m still trying to figure you out.
Foremost, blogs are where the worldwide fight for rationality is happening. The opposition knows this and there is a huge amount of money at stake. It is quite possible, even probable that the opposition is attempting and has succeeded in placing bloggers with the intent of discrediting and or disrupting the successes of blogs like this one. Discrediting is fairly easy; simply start typing subtle untruths, or use personalities to cause small skirmishes. Skilled people can do this fairly easily in the anonymous blog sphere. There are regular posters here that can expand on the various techniques that might be used. Suffice to say, I watch for such activity and recently some odd posts and posters HAVE been busy. Take a look on these threads here and here and you’ll see skeptic battling with skeptic. I’ve been hanging around here at Jo’s site long enough to see that many of the names posting weren’t regulars here and several of them made a point of upsetting some of the regular posters here. Then you come along…….Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
That’s MY paranoia.
Second, If you think you can win the battle at hand by yourself, you are delusional. WE need EVERY ABLE BODY to win. If you really believe every person that presently holds an opposition opinion is a murder you truly are paranoid. If you put paranoid and delusional together in one mind what do you have?
Or are you doing this on purpose to discredit all of us? To marginalize skeptics? To scare away people looking for real answers and real solutions?
You seem to know these methods:
@48
Or are you just tired fighter not willing to waste time mincing words?
You MUST know that this will be won or lost in the political arena. This REQUIRES numbers of voters each with slightly different views. It means you Memoryvault need to work with all of us.
MattB could easily be the SOURCE for “Everything he replies to US will eventually be used against THEM.”
Infighting and belittling supporters, discrediting by way of using too strong a choice of words is VERY counter productive.
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PS:
Matt, the faces will work if you leave a space in front of them like this. 🙂 But not without the space like this.:) Not sure why it would matter…
Roy
10
I’m too old school for the pictures:) a colon and a bracket say it all and were good enough for the 1st 10 years of my time on the internet so good enough for now!
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Memoryvault, I do admire your robust defense of Monckton.
I suspect Matt B was speaking from ignorance, or rather the ‘wisdom’ acquired from reading about Monckton elsewhere, rather than meeting the man for himself.
Indeed from the limited medium of his web persona alone, I would have to say anyone might form similar impressions.
I guess that’s why a few have been exhorting Matt B to see the man perform in person. I dare say Jo might even be able to arrange an introduction, for one of her more prolific (if misguided) ‘warmists in residence’.
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TrueNews @ 127
Read the list at my post #126.
I didn’t make it up – they are ALL things prominent cultists (the people MattB supports) have “
suggesteddemanded” for us “deniers”.You want “proof”? Hell most if not all of these things have featured in posts or comments on this very site.
Go read Hansen’s latest rant about us all being charged with “crimes against humanity”, or watch the 10:10 “No Pressure video again.
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Roy Hogue @ 131
I did not “associate” MattB with any group, cause or belief.
I don’t have to. He does that himself.
Repeatedly.
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Mark D @ 133
You just don’t get it, do you?
This battle is over – we lost.
The “battle” was never about “carbon taxes” or “renewable energy” or “Pollution” or even about government control.
It was about killing people.
“Climate” is cyclical. We have 20 – 30 years of warm, followed by 20 – 30 years of cooling. The variances in these periods are further influenced by other cycles – either directly – as with the PDO and AMO, or by proxy, as with sunspots.
Over forty years ago it was possible to reasonably predict that the weather would remain cool until the mid-Seventies, then it would warm up until some time in the early 2000’s. Then it would cool down again for about 25 to 30 years, then there would be a period of very mild warming – possibly even “flat-lining” for 20 – 25 years, then an even colder period of 25 – 30 years.
I know it was possible in the 1960’s to reasonably predict these things, because I took part in just such an exercise in Physics in 1967 at high school.
Further, the period of transition from one cycle to the other is when we get our “extremes” of weather. It is not by coincidence that the last time Brisbane got flooded or the Mid-East to the Mid-West of the USA lived up to its title of “Tornado Alley” was in the mid-Seventies.
Back in the Eighties a small group of very influential people, who knew full-well that climate was cyclical, noted the hysteria that had been so easily generated towards the end of a perfectly natural cooling period, as the world transitioned to warming. We were going into another Ice Age. We were all going to die in floods and droughts and tornadoes and hurricanes (sound familiar).
They also noted the ease with which one rich and influential man could wind the entire “environmental movement” up like a clock-work robot and set it to work to get an entirely harmless chemical banned and give him a world-wide monopoly on refrigerants.
And they made a plan. The plan was to ensure as the world went through another such transition, it would do it bereft of energy, surplus food, capital to tackle these things, and a complete lack of political will to do anything even if we had the energy, food and money.
Welcome to the present.
Now, having been through a few similar exercises in my lifetime, I know that once the bovine excrement has well and truly hit the oscillator, there will be precious few Carbon Cate’s, Michael Caton’s Julia Gillard’s, Tony Abbott’s, or – dare I say it – MattB’s who are prepared to put their hand up and admit they were in part responsible for all the death and destruction (when was the last time you met a greenie who thought biofuels were a good idea?).
The only battle left worth fighting is to ensure those at the top – the politicians, “climate scientists” and bureaucrats at the CSIRO, BoM, Climate Commission etc – one day stand trial for their crimes, and those at the bottom who have given credence to these people – the MattB’s of the world – can’t look themselves in the mirror without being overcome by guilt.
That is the battle at hand, Mark D. That is the only battle left, and that is the battle I am fighting.
And if I must fight it alone while the rest of you politely “debate” the pros and cons of angels dancing on pinheads, then so be it.
My apologies for the length of this post.
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memoryvault:,
Now that we know that MattB is far more sinister than we ever imagined, indeed, nearly single handedly responsible for killing us all; now that we know the battle is lost because we all waited far to long to seek your counsel and we’re all dead with nothing we can do about it. WILL YOU PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP!
No one cares about your ego!
Thank you!
10
Memoryvault, you have provided me with absolutely ZERO to work with. You say:
but you refuse to acknowledge that this can be won:
10
Oh by the way: Stiff sh#t. Get used to it.
10
Mark D @ 141
At the risk of driving poor Roy into a fit of bold CAPITALISED apoplexy:
The “battle” that is lost is the “battle” against things like “carbon taxes” “renewable energy”, whether oxygenised carbon is a “pollutant”, whether the “peer review process” actually works and so on and so on ad infinitum and ad nauseum and all the other things that are being “debated” here with the likes of MattB, Blimey and the others.
In that respect what’s done is done and it’s too late to reverse what is in the process of unfolding. If you don’t believe this then try placing an order with GE or Seimens for even a relatively small turbine to drive a modest 100MW generator, and find out what the lead-time for delivery is.
What is vitally important to do now, and CAN be done now, and MUST be done now, is to make sure all those responsible are one day held accountable. That when the time comes when the average Joe Bloe wants to shake his fist in anger at “somebody” he knows exactly “who” that “somebody” is, and why.
Not for the sake of revenge, but as the only way we can ensure it doesn’t happen all over again like it has repeatedly in the past.
At least for a while.
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Mattb says at 129:
More to support my paranoia. Thanks……
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Roy Hogue: #140 & Mark D: #141
You guys know my background (sort of), and you can recognise my fist because I type really fast, and therefore get letters and spelling wrong occasionally.
Similarly, a lot of trolls have a fist – the types of words they use – the way they construct sentences, etc.
IMHO Memory Vault is more than one person. Or perhaps it is one person with a personality disorder – it is hard to tell.
Another trait of trolls is that they need to dominate the debate on a thread – they do not drop in from time to time like the rest of us, they drop in with a thud, and stay there trying to direct or misdirect the debate in order to distract from a consistent discussion aaround the current topic.
Finally, they get emotive and rude, using phrases like, “You just don’t get it, do you?”, rather than patiently explaining their point from a different perspective. People who understand a topic can explain things differently, people who do not can only speak in cliches.
Anybody who is noisy at a party, or who dominates a blog, should be called out for what they are, and then ignored.
By the way, in explaination with my comment at 102, I had a long running battle with a troll on another blog, regarding Fenton Communications. The “fist” was similar, so I wanted to see if Memory Vault bit. Unfortunately he/she did not. Not that that proves anything.
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Mark D @ 142
I’ve had to.
Warfarin has that effect.
10
I’ve left this comment on Warwick Hughes blog today but just as relevant here:
Don’t miss http://www.quadrant.org.au/
The science behind tricking the public
Piers Akerman
THE mendacious Gillard government is continuing its drive to impose a punitive carbon dioxide tax on Australians while refusing to address the key issues.
Put aside, if you can, the lies that both Prime Minister Julia Gillard and her deputy, Treasurer Wayne Swan, told the electorate before the election.
They are both trying to frighten the nation into accepting a new job-destroying, economy-wrecking tax they vehemently declared they would not have a bar of less than a year ago.
and Des Moore
Economic modelling of climate change – what does it mean?
——————————————————————————–
In his 7 June address to the Press Club Treasurer Wayne Swan claimed that new Treasury modelling projects economic growth per head to 2050 only 0.1 per cent a year less than otherwise under a carbon (dioxide) tax. This modelling is subject to serious questioning – or should be. Although that poses difficulties because the modelling has not been released, there are some obvious questions
And for the other side of the ‘debate’ The Aust’s editorial today Make carbon recompense adequate and equitable
Grrrr…. I still haven’t foregiven the Aust for editorialising ‘vote for Kevin Rudd’ before THAT election – and then naming him Australian of the Year after the stimulus package surplus drain …. I wish newspapers would stop editorialising and just stick to news and opinion – that’s their job
10
Rereke @ 145
Let me assure you I am only one, and I am a male, and I only post as “Memory Vault”. Can’t comment on the personality disorder bit though – logically I’d be the worst person to ask if it is true.
My sincere apologies for my “fist”; I guess being able to reply “fast” (and without spelling mistakes) comes from being a professional writer this past quarter-century (originally an engineer – now I combine the two).
As for “dominating the thread”, I made one and one only “comment” here in reply to MattB’s implied assertion that “we” were being bankrolled by the likes of Andrew Forrest and Gina Rhinehardt (@ #13) – just yet another variant of the “financed by Big Oil” meme.
Since then all I have done is defend myself against a lot of vitriol for daring to say something un-nice about your pet resident troll.
I have also kept myself and my comments confined to this “old” thread, expressly to avoid this “debate” from spilling over into other, more recent posts. Unlike two regulars who have completely taken over the most recent two articles, and who I would have thought much more deserving of your criticism.
Finally, as to the reason I can sit and enjoy the luxury of replying immediately to posts (something that doesn’t happen too often):
I am in Queensland and it is a public holiday. I really don’t have anything better to do for the moment.
10
I said nothing about Forrest or Rinehart bankrolling anyone. I said they would be good people to sell the message to the target audience at the conference.
10
You got that Plan B yet, Matt?
10
I believe that Monckton should devote at least some of his time to amalgamating the widespread, scattered sites, scientists & diverse groups who appose AGW. A unified approach & budget would have a much better chance. How otherwise do you fight something as huge as the United Nations Environment Programme that is relentlessly dictating its environmental laws to soverign countries?
10
Memoryvault,
So now we all know you don’t give a toot about anything but your own personal agenda. We know you can’t shut up once you’ve stated your case. We know you don’t give toot about the rules of the road (probably haven’t read them). We know your manners are questionable. We know Jo will eventually pull the plug on you. The only thing we don’t know is when. But she will.
PS:
You’ve come in here with guns blazing and managed to alienate all the people whose help you just might want, given what you say your purpose is. Foolish comes to mind…
10
I found this most interesting:
$52Million smackers worth of public money!!!
http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/Default.aspx?ItemId=141098
Here’s the cost…
ABC South West WA: Compare Ron Tait says Western Australia’s first onshore carbon capture and storage trial project is to receive up to $52m to further promote the state’s research in Carbon Emissions reduction.
here’s the assumed benefit…
Mr Moore said that if implemented, the Collie Hub Project had the potential to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 30 per cent in the South-West and by nine per cent across the State.
Done by …wait for it….computer modelling.!
“It is expected to take about four years of study and research, including detailed desktop modelling, before a final decision on the Hub can be made,” Mr Moore said.
Phew! At least the approach seems to be consistent with IPCC style.
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Macha @ 153
Interesting post Macha, but a bit wasted here.
This is a relatively old thread, currently little more than a passed-over battleground about an ideological non-issue than anything else.
Could I suggest you re-post it on the current story – the one about it taking two years to get a peer-reviewed paper published?
10
Jo,
**Important**
Think about a different venue in Melbourne, in both his and the Club’s interests.
This club was once in the news because of someone working for it with crazy views. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/neo-nazis-meet/story-e6frf7jo-1225793156431
Having Monckton speak there risks having both his and the Club’s characters assaulted by Monckton’s enemies, in the most unfair way — reputation by association three-time-removed, i.e. because a crazy guy worked there once long ago. They will not let it stop them that this will be deeply unfair to both him and the Club.
Don’t give them the opportunity to make unfair attacks that distract from the important message. Change the venue.
10
Readers might be interested in this article from the UK’s Sunday Express:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/252230/An-uncomfortable-lie
Dr David Evans is quoted in the article. I think the article hits the nail on the head!
10
If the above article isn’t enough (@156 above) now read this gem from the UK’s Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2002316/Britain-afford-green-madness.html
Oh my God… it seems that the Green Dream is just about to crumble!
10
If readers appreciated the above article, then this one from the UK’s Telegraph is surely a sign of things to come. It is an expert piece of journalism:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8570158/Industry-begins-to-count-the-true-cost-of-climate-change.html
10
The people, who really count, if there is to be a return to sanity, is the voting public. So it matters little if the Super Fund managers are eying off “investment” in renewable forms of energy if whilst at the same time articles like that in the Express, quoting David Evans, keep getting published. The managers will be constrained by a growing skepticism as more people are made aware of what more and more appears to be a scam that only the uniformed and credulous take seriously.
That’s why the paper that leads into this thread and others from highly credentialed scientists who are revealing the fundamental flaws in the AGW hypothesis, are so important. Peer review is irrelevant in terms of influence with the wider public. These contrary conclusions, simply expressed, in terms of ACC must be given as wide a public circulation as possible. That’s what will count in turning public opinion increasingly against wanting to fight an imaginary foe and which warfare given the nature of its “enemies” will impoverish nations and societies.
10
Llew Jones @ 159
Errh, would be the same “voting public” who voted overwhelmingly AGAINST a “carbon tax” at the last election?
Yeah to the power of the people.
10
The ‘Last Post’
This truly has been a strange, and sometimes acrymonious thread.
.
MattB has 3 posts with more ‘thumbs up’ than ‘thumbs down’.
(That would be enbarassing for him)
.
We have had Skeptic turning on Skeptic.
I am as much to blame as anyone in souring this debate, by retaliating with offensive remarks to the writer of a comment I found offensive, and for that I apologise.
.
@ memoryvault: – I think I owe you a direct, rather than generalised apology. My post regarding using your book as Loo paper was childish and out of order, for that I apologise.
I do however still disagree with your assumption that we have lost the battle.
.
@MattB: – I have Screenhots of all your ‘Thumbs Up’ posts, and might just use them if you show any further ‘Non Dissent’:)
.
I hope we can all move on from here and get back to our common cause.
(Excepting MattB of course)
.
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TrueNews @ 161
I thank you for the gracious words in your post, and I too apologise to all and sundry if I offended anyone on this particular thread. That was never my intention.
I think it must be accepted that the people on “our” side are neither Daleks, nor The Borg. We are not automatons who will simply respond to whatever dictat is forthcoming from our “betters”.
We are individuals, and as such, we will will always disagree sometimes. Total, unanimous, unswerving agreement is something that rarely exists anywhere in real life outside of the beehive or ants nest. And we are neither.
I take no personal umbrage from anything posted here about me, and I hope others feel the same. I still feel our efforts are currently misdirected to unachievable/irrelevant aims, and I still feel, given time, others will come to share that view. But that is for the future, and the last two days of posts here have been a great teacher in how NOT to go about achieving that.
Regards
Peter Sawyer
PS – You STILL have to buy your own copy of “Green Hoax Effect”. How you use it is up to you.
10
“MattB has 3 posts with more ‘thumbs up’ than ‘thumbs down’.
(That would be enbarassing for him)”
Make that 5!!! I guess that’s mission accomplished. Thread derailed I can get back to digging the trench.
10
(“The people, who really count, if there is to be a return to sanity, is the voting public.”
Errh, would be the same “voting public” who voted overwhelmingly AGAINST a “carbon tax” at the last election?
Yeah to the power of the people.”)
Wasn’t so much concerned at this time about the power of the people but rather how to better promote its growing collective knowledge of the scam that is ACC. Nor was I only thinking of Australia. The articles referred to above originated in the UK and of course, via the net, can be read worldwide.
Events like the recent breaking of the El Nino influenced drought down our east coast I’m sure produced more skeptics as well as producing more fertile ground for embracing skepticism than a hundred largely ignored, peer reviewed, skeptic papers could have. Alternatively a thousand peer reviewed ACC papers could not have prevented that shift in sentiment.
Those sorts of, seen it all before, weather events have helped produce skeptics all around the world. We the voting public all live in the laboratory called climate so we all are observers of a sort of “empirical evidence”.
Thus it shouldn’t require much more than the widest possible dissemination, in simple terms, of the scientific evidence gathered mostly by skeptical scientists. That along with continually detailing the cost to each member of the voting public should in reasonable time unleash “the power of the people”.
(I was thinking of KeithH @84 re Super Funds (on “When Scientists…”) where, probably due to trying at the same time to absorb today’s AFL summary on the radio, I thought I was posting and also to Mervyn Sullivan 156, 7 & 8 on this thread. That’s why the reference is to the (Lindzen – Choi) paper “above”).
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I just went back to Say Yes Australia and found, to my surprise, my comment had eventually been posted. Perhaps they got the message about shutting out opposing views. Good on them for letting me comment, but I still think they are saying yes to the wrong thing.
10
Only the zombie Left, who don’t live in the real world with the rest of us, haven’t seen the economic storm clouds on the horizon: Qantas today has axed delivery of a dozen new planes because the Australian economy is tanking. Recession is here because of: an 80% increase in taxation in the past five years by the Rudd-Gillard-Greens government, the highest interest rates in the world and unsustainably high consumer prices for almost everything. So I believe Monckton’s tour next month may well become a victory lap celebrating the defeat of the carbox tax. There’s no way this tax will be enacted in a recession.
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Tom@166
Also Tom, if the carbon dioxide tax is placed on fuel, Australian Aviation will be badly penalised..
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[…] two choices: 1) Make our voices heard. Go to protests, write to the paper, your local MP. Listen to Lord Monckton or Vaclav Klaus speak when they arrive in Australia. 2) One of the independants can come along and […]
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Even a warmist scientist agrees that carbon taxes are harmful:
http://newnostradamusofthenorth.blogspot.com/2011/06/climate-alarmist-carbon-taxes-will.html
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Geoff@ 167 & Tom @ 166
Geoff where have you been of late. The EU is threatening to tax
QANTAS as from Jan 2012 when flying over Europe or parts of it, unless Australia adopts a carbon tax. Isn’t that nice? Their
carbon trading system is failing (World Bank 1/6/2011) and they want up to boost it up. They have stuffed up and come around to bite them on their bums, bankrupt some places, and they want Oz
to be drawn into this black hole with them.
Good Tory Aardvark today. With picture of Julia with the caption
‘A Dingo ate my deity?” ‘Most unpopular PM for 40 years’.
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[…] One of the tour organisers, Anthony Cox, said ticket sales were “going well” and added there was “no sponsorship” from mining companies for the east coast leg of the tour. […]
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Jo – your post makes it look like the AMEC convention and the Hancock lecture in Perth are the same thing. Isn;t he doing the AMEC and the Hancock?
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Matt, you are right. They aren’t the same event. The AMEC one isn’t open to the public and there are no places left at the Notre Dame university event. I was just notified, and have fixed the post. (Darn).
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Also – it is the Notre Dame one that is the Hancock Speech. not that I have any idea why I want to assist you propagate this garbage;)
Did you see the good/raving lord is front page pic on the ABC website. Zeig Heil!
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Matt B.
It’s so heartening to see you were thinking of attending 😉
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I’m always up for a bit of stand-up/slapstick Joe. I’m hoping he’ll venture into burlesque too.
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Hey mattb
If gumnuts is not a Facist , national socialist , UN Stooge , govt propaganda spokesperson , deranged imbecile , Marxist , neo nazi , fabricator, fifth columnist , corrupted , moral bankrupt ,traitor, brain damaged ,
Communist , autocrat , dictator , IPCC pin up boy ………..some one paid well to grind an axe , oh and a not climate scientist !
Please do let me know , I do not agree with the way monkton did what he did , however it doesn’t change the fact that gumnuts has exhibited many of the aboves disorders or traits if you like .
I’m not quite sure what AB wants him to apologize for , possibly the direct association with Adolph ,
But as more than one here have said he does not seem strong on democracy .
Anyway Adolph was a nazi , Mussolini was the Facist ..
In all honesty that would have gone down pretty darn well in the good ol US of A !
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Ha it appears I could be Turnbull’s speech writer!
“”Monckton is a vaudeville artist.”
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Some of the commenters here accuse climate scientists of trying to associate sceptics with Nazis.
Well a famous sceptic just did the same thing – accusing a climate scientist of being a Nazi.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/8594194/Outrage-as-Lord-Monckton-calls-Australian-climate-change-scientist-a-Nazi.html
Monckton did apologize for the gaffe.
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“MattB”,
You are either a prize COMEDIAN or a prize CLOWN ……….
Not the sharpest TOOL in the shed are we ?
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Joanne, I have an update of ALL the tour HERE including the extra Perth and Adelaide events.
Don’t miss our Jo and David with Lord Monckton.
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Damian Allen – I take that as a Victorian “We”.
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Aaahhh, it’s good to see the science is settled. I thought we had it sorted with slip slop slap.
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I understand that the latest news from Menzies House is that GetUp etc have forced the cancellation of the 13th July. 7.00pm Brisbane, Broncos Leagues Club QLD event – What has happened to free speech ?
This needs to be publicised widely.
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As Bob Carter and David Evans will be likely covering the science side of the carbon tax issue in the venues they can attend, I would guess Monckton will lean more towards the political machinations behind the symbiosis of the IPCC and environmental movements.
Based on that guess, I suggest this video series (each 15 minutes long) is a preview of what Monckton is likely to say (or be questioned about) at the events. If you’re short of time I suggest Part 3 is the most self-sufficient of the five and could be watched in isolation.
Part 1 – World goverment, CO2 tax futility
Part 2 – Contrary evidence, Environmental Communism
Part 3 – IPCC deception
Part 4 – Fraud in Global Warming
Part 5 – Similarity to Communism
This kind of background is worthy of consideration regardless of whether you attend Monckton’s appearances.
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In addition to the series referenced above, for those with a skeptical view you should also consider this Monckton video and its predecessors: #5 Summary of errors
It’s a reminder that skepticism knows no allegiances (other than to the facts).
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Before forking out all that time and money on this potty peer and his slick PR sidekicks. Perhaps it’s worth checking out this link on how Monckton distorts and misrepresents the current scientific understanding.
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Nice link G. @ #187. Thanks.
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sorry im not that clever but does this tax mean we will actually reduce any co2 releases or just be charged for the privilage, surely its only worth implementing a scheme if it does the job in hand, why not just turn everyones power off for 23hrs a day or maybe we should all go and live in caves and stop all use of vehicles
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steve says:
Actually, their prima facie idea is to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by just 5% so therefore 5% of 24 hours = 1.2 hours.
My pick would be 1.2 hours from 1pm….
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oh and by just watching QandA were only taxing half of the big co2 emmiters……ummmmm so we dont need to worry about the other 500,one rule for one and all that
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