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Unthreaded Oct 22, 2011
I need to do some testing, so odd things may come or go… but hopefully it will all be working properly soon. 🙂 Thanks for your patience, but do keep commenting! Jo
PS: New star ratings added for blog articles. Thanks for your enthusiastic clicking, but seriously, surely I need to do more than write two lines to earn eight stars! The short killer summary:
The Skeptics Handbook. The most deadly point:
The Missing Hot Spot. October 23rd, 2011 | Tags: Unthreaded | Category: Global Warming, Uncategorized |
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Advisory: maxfarquar.com is not for people of a nervous disposition.
Vote Green, go blue:
http://www.maxfarquar.com/2011/10/green-policies-green-tax-cold-related-deaths/
20
An interesting take , EUSSR.
I initially assimilated it, until I got the point about freezing to death, as:-
Go Green, Vote Blue !
.
With what it’s saying about:-
“with Cameron’s Socialist Alliance stealing all of her policies and embarking on the Green Fascist’s Final Solution without her. ”
.
I thought you meant it as a new slogan for these, Conservatives.
.
As you know Green is what you get from mixing Blue with Yellow. In this case Blue (Tories) too Yellow to tell the voters what they really think about AGW , for fear of losing too many of the impressionable & already deceived voters to get elected.
.
It has nothing to do btw. with the Liberal Democrats ( the coalition partners of these Yellow Tories) having Yellow as their emblematic colour, as they are rather too ineffectual to make any difference, but a useful cloak for Carbon Cameron’s closset communist ‘Conservatism’ nonetheless.
.
This Cameron is trying to impose a 3 line whip on his party to deny the public Referendum on leaving the EU, tomorrow, Monday, despite having promised such a Referendum multiple times in the past, and both he and his Liberal Democratic partners have been elected on the promise of a such a Referendum.
.
Dismissing a Referendum now as ‘distracting’, Cameron is thoroughly seduced by the idea of ascending to the ruling class permanently, through a ‘post-electable’ position on the EU gravy train. Talk of Referenda is useful rhetoric, but to be avoided in reality at all costs.
The prospect of any real Referendum on Europe gets their sphincters twitching, ( if you can pardon the expression)., these ruling elitist’s with post democratic ambitions.
20
Another great big Ooops?
“Perth’s drinking water supplies from dams will run out by the end of next summer even with decent rainfall….”
http://www.watoday.com.au/environment/water-issues/wa-dams-set-to-dry-up-by-summers-end-expert-warns-20110523-1f0ho.html
Mr Imberger how will this happen when Perths dams have more water than this time last year?
http://www.watercorporation.com.au/D/dams_storage.cfm
Oh and far higher stream inflow(click on the “Streamflow graph” link) with more rain predicted.
Mr Steffan how has the “drying out” contributed to “a WA harvest of more than nine million tonnes; unparalleled in the state’s agricultural history.”?
http://saveaustralianfarming.org/news/the-australian-bumper-grain-harvest-sown-in-green-and-gold.aspx
20
9 million tons wow I wonder if that has anything to do with a little extra CO2. Nah CO2 is a POISON pollutant so it must have been a fragment of our imagination caused by a rabid computer model{garbage in=garbage out) or something.
20
Siliggy if Perth depended on its dams for water then it would have run out of water 30 years ago.
The fact that Perth sits on a rather large aquifer is the reason it has not run out of water yet and probably won’t for the near future.
10
Hi all!
As a “quick response” to the Berkeley BEST new release of global land temperature trends, I made this RUTI global land temperature trends:
http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/ruti-global-land-temperatures-1880-2010-part-1-244.php
Main conclusion: BEST and RUTI global land trends are strikingly similar…
– except in the period 1950-78 where BEST has 0,55 K more warm trend than RUTI / Unadjusted GHCN.
The years 1950-78 is among the years with most data available from Unadjusted GHCN, and thus in the period where RUTI has the most datasets as foundation.
Is is unlikely in an absurd way, that all approx 1400 datasets used in RUTI in average should have 0,55 K to cold.
Having worked with several thousand datasets, I have to conclude that the BEST result has nothing to do with reality, and appears mosty like just another shiny platform of tax-paid misinformation, sadly.
K.R. Frank
10
I must confess some disappointment with the BEST project as I had believed it would make more effort than it did, to examine data quality and data distribution. If all it was going to do was combine existing datasets there doesn’t seem much point to it.
To me there still doesn’t seem to be any clear climate direction signal, and the thermometer record simply can’t be long enough to indicate a climate trend. At best, a trend in the current cycle, which may or may not be “recent warming, currently stable”. On the whole though, I don’t understand and (therefore?) don’t trust the statistical analyses so far. I think, in the absence of a statistical method which properly weights the highly sampled and less sampled areas, a better indication of the current overall temperature trend is the current moisture trend. Put simply, a warmer world would be a wetter world.
I don’t know about the northern hemisphere (where all the thermometers are), but here in the land areas of the southern hemisphere there seems to be a longstanding trend to drought (eg glacier retreat, reduced snow in Kilimanjaro, decadal droughts in South Africa, South America, Australia). The exception might be Antarctica, which is apparently growing more ice. Apart from Antarctica, cooling rather than warming indicated.
We need to know if global warming is really global. Does BEST help?
I don’t think anyone doubts that the northern and southern hemispheres can have diametrically opposite trends (though I know of no mechanism by which this could occur, eg hemispheric oscillation). In view of this, I place far less value on the BEST project for not separating the hemispheres for statistical analysis, and not (as far as I know) analysing the relative data qualities. Discussing Atlantic multidecadal oscillations (MDO) as a major factor in global temperature strikes me as somewhat parochial, even if not necessarily incorrect.
Still, the data being out there, available to whoever has the skills to use it, must be a worthwhile step forward.
10
I’ve read the BEST report. These are some key points which came out of their research:
1. The report did show that urban temperature stations did tend to show higher absolute temperatures thus proving that the UHI does exist as we have been saying all along. However, as most temperature analysis doesn’t use absolute temperature, but temperature anomaly, if the higher absolute temperatures of the UHI affected stations trend in the same direction as the non – UHI affected stations, then the anomaly graphs will look the same. However, what gets a lot of news is the record high temperatures which of course is skewed by the UHI. Therefore unless climate scientists adjust for the UHI we are not getting a true picture.
2. They have not yet looked at sea surface temperatures. So far they have only dealt with about 39,000 land based temperature stations. Of course many of those stations are in areas affected by UHI and in major industrialised countries. The BEST Report also showed that about a third of the 39,000 temperature stations recorded an overall cooling in the last century. How is that explained? It would be interesting to see what the result of the Peer Review process will be because I would be keen on an analysis of which stations showing overall warming trends were in UHI affected areas and which showing cooling were in non-UHI affected areas. But regardless of that, as the oceans make up about 80% of the global surface area, until we have quality data over a reasonable time period for ocean surface temperatures, it is ridiculous to make any judgement about average global surface temperature, (even if you do believe that such a number has any real relevance!). If BEST team had access to 39,000 stations on the earth’s land surface area representing about 20% of the globe, we really need the equivalent of a well spread 156,000 temperature stations over the oceans. I don’t know how the satellite temperature records compare with this requirement.
3. The BEST report makes absolutely no attempt to determine how much, if any warming is caused by humans, or by human CO2 emissions specifically. The BEST team state that we are years away from being able to make any conclusive findings in that area. It is considered the third stage of their project after looking at sea surface temperatures.
In my opinion it is irrelevant how much warming has occurred in recent decades or centuries unless you can conclusively prove human CO2 emissions are responsible beyond what has turned out to be a really poor correlation which has no predictive abilities. Therefore we are not justified in taking drastic measures on CO2 emissions. We have no idea whether such action will achieve anything at all, it may actually harm our environment and it will most certainly harm our economy and impact on the poor more than the rich.
10
Also compliments of crakar24 a great article from Delingpole on the BEST research. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100112834/global-warming-is-real/
There are also significant questions regarding the statistical methods used by the BEST team discussed at length here: http://www.informath.org/apprise/a5700.htm
10
What was going on in that period , 1950 – 1978, where such an ‘unnatural’ leveling occured to make a decline disappear ?
Nuclear testing, hedonistic lifestyles, other Cold War shennanigans ?
When did most of the station changes occur ?
10
The above difference RUTI vs. BEST is well illustrated on this figure:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/ARUTI/GlobalTrends/Est1Global/fig1c.jpg
K.R. Frank
10
As I recall, the purpose stated by the Best project was to process the SAME data in a transparent way. If you use the same data sets, you should get much the same result. However, it is still to be proven that the data sets in question are a proper sampling of a truly global temperature series.
The simplest test of proper sampling is to compare the sampled data set results with a much larger population of data sets. The comparison with the RUTI data sets appears to be just that. The outcome of the comparison is that the Best sampling contains a serious systematic bias as compared to the RUTI data sets.
It is interesting that this bias just happens to show up during the period that the CAGWers insist that man released CO2 caused a temperature rise ultimately to lead to catastrophic global warming. This sends up a huge red flag that something is seriously wrong somewhere and that one best (pun intended) not rely on the the BEST analysis. Unfortunately, it is also uncertain that one can rely on the RUTI for decision making.
The bottom line is that no one in the climate change industry knows what they are doing beyond spending huge piles of taxpayer money to produce scientific like documents indistinguishable from pure bullshit. At least they are very good at doing that if nothing else.
10
Hi Lionell!
Yes, Obviously RUTI is not a final product for decsion making.
However, an honest attempt to estimate global temperature trends is likely to be more useful than a dishonest but wellfunded product.
I started RUTI because I dont see any alternative, and my work with RUTI have showed so many bizarre examples of how bad temperature data is twisted by Hadcrut and others.
These findings will come out dropwise.
Notice, that RUTI and BEST is quite similar, except for the massive extra heat in BEST 1950-78. This indicates, that methods used for RUTI appears to be useful. How else should there be long peroids of similar trends with the BEST?
Does is raise another red flag that bias end in 1978 – just when satellite data begins? As we know, Alarmist love to say that satellite data is similar to GISS, Hadcrut … and now BEST.
It is my hope that RUTI can grow: Still more and better data to be used etc.
K.R. Frank
10
A most illustrative comparison there Frank. The growing discrepancy from 1950 growing for 28 years & lasting till present, clearly needs some serious scrutiny. I look forward to watching this develop.
Lionel.
“, As I recall, the purpose stated by the Best project was to process the SAME data in a transparent way. …”
There seem many ways to do ‘transparent’. In this case it just seems to mean using the full glare of the MSM media to endorse the results & conclusions , before serious scrutiny.
10
Publishing the unexamined conclusions is not the same as a transparent processing of the data. To be a transparent process, every step of the process must be made visible and available for a detailed critical review. This has not been done. Thus there was and is no transparent process. However, processing the same data in much the same way will produce the same results – transparent process or not.
Even if the process were truly transparent, the bias between the BEST and RUTI data sets is clearly present and opens a serious question about the whole process.
The whole climate crises thing was a scam from the get go and still is. It has nothing to do with science, knowledge, or anything genuinely related to the global climate. It is nothing but a smoke screen for the most obscene takeover of wealth, power, and control that has ever occurred in the history of mankind.
10
Hi Lionell, and thanks for comment!
The BEST project STILL does not give us original temperature data etc.
What is the difference between GISS/Hadcrut and BEST?
BEST provides
– exactly the same results as GISS, and
– exactly the same “hiding” of input data ..
Or?
What exactly is new about BEST then?
RUTI is a little upcoming project, but plays with open cards. If wrong decisions are pointed out they will be corrected.
K.R. Frank
10
The RUTI effort may be useful to show the BEST (et.al.) interpretation is questionable and likely fraudulent. However, it cannot show anything meaningful about average global temperature.
An average is a simple mathematical process of summing the collected numbers and dividing them by their count. It is an operation that many people learn in grade school. On the other hand, interpreting the meaning of that average number is not so simple and in most cases there is no objective meaning to be found. What it is supposed to mean is placed upon the final number by imagination, intent, or by authority but there is no existent physical reference.
One cannot properly average intensive parameters. The result of such an operation is as meaningful as the average of all phone numbers. One can properly report only their values in space and time. Only extensive parameters can be properly averaged. Even then, the average must be carefully done and interpreted in full context or the interpretation is also meaningless. It is irrelevant that it feels that such averages are meaningful, that meaningfulness is intended, and that they are commonly produce and interpreted without connection to physical reality.
Temperature is a point in time and space intensive parameter. There is no such thing as a physically meaningful average temperature even if the underlying data is correctly sampled. This is why the whole issue of average global temperature is nothing but a misdirection. The ONLY thing that has physical meaning is the temperature is X here and now.
Unfortunately, the misdirection appears to be useful for the engineering of a takeover of the global economy and the minute control of the lives of everyone on earth. This is possible because the vast majority of the earth’s population is totally ignorant of the logic, science, and statistical interpretation required. They have no way to know that it was nothing but a fraud from its inception.
While we skeptics have been arguing science and method with the AGW fellow travelers, the political elite have been taking over using nothing more than a game of Three Card Monte to keep us misdirected and occupied. Shame on us.
10
Indeed Lionel , Global average temperate for all its simplicity, is a pretty abstract concept &quite meaningless at such small variations.
The value of RUTI though is exactly as you say, in demonstrating the systematic inconsitencies in what has been reported.
10
For an excellent summary of the AGW debate and a great rebuttal of the denier tag, I recommend an article by David Deming, “Why I Deny Global Warming”, highlighted at ICECAP under ‘What’s New and Cool’ 19/10/11
http://www.icecap.us/
Some edited excerpts:
“A scientist, by the very definition of his activity, must be skeptical. A scientist engaged in a dispassionate search for truth elevates the critical, he does not suppress it. Knowledge begins with skepticism and ends with conceit.
Finally, I’m happy to be known as a “denier” because the label of “denier” says nothing about me, but everything about the person making the charge. Scientific theories are never denied or believed, they are only corroborated or falsified. Scientific knowledge, by its very nature, is provisional and subject to revision. The provisional nature of scientific knowledge is a necessary consequence of the epistemological basis of science. Science is based on observation. We never have all the data. As our body of data grows, our theories and ideas must necessarily evolve. Anyone who thinks scientific knowledge is final and complete must necessarily endorse as a corollary the absurd proposition that the process of history has stopped.
A scientific theory cannot be “denied.” Only a belief can be denied. The person who uses the word “denier” thus reveals that they hold global warming as a belief, not a scientific theory. The sciences are open systems of knowledge that welcome criticism. I’m a scientist, and therefore I must happily confess to being a denier.”
David Deming is a geophysicist, associate professor of arts and sciences at the University of Oklahoma, and author of the books Science and Technology in World History, Vols. 1
10
Have started reading the article referred to and it is well done.
10
We have the same problem in Norway with our NRK that you have with your ABC.
It’s somewhat a propaganda office for leftist and leftist political views.
They have been established and funded by leftist governments.
Now its turning more and more into a WWF/Greenpeace propaganda office.
10
Jon-Anders Grannes
Good to hear from Norway.
Thanks for your post about the NRK.
Recognition and understanding of a problem takes you half way towards solving it and with a bit of organised effort we may be able to bring real science back to our national broadcasters.
10
In another story that highlights how the current Government is broken:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/10777955/independents-tipped-to-lose-seats-poll/
Yes, both Windsor and Oakeshott would be roundly beaten if an election were held today. So we have a minority propped up by two independents and a Green (only in power due to coalition preferences, remember) who will not be there after the next election because their electorates don’t want them.
All this to deliver a CO2 tax we were promised would not exist. How can this be described any other way than “broken”?
10
More detailed version of the same story at The Australian:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/support-for-pms-partners-slumps-in-newspoll-as-windsor-and-oakeshott-defy-voters/story-fn59niix-1226174598855
10
Every “Climate Scientists” presentation I have seen tells lies by omission.
For example we are told that “Carbon Dioxide will blah, blah, blah ….. and if CO2 doubles then … blah, blah, blah ”.
They will Never separate out the Human effect of CO2 from the Total CO2 effect.
They will never acknowledge the presence of water vapour in the air because as a Green House Gas it wipes the floor with CO2.
So, as a last post, I felt it important to give examples of how the CO2 we produce really influences the climate and will use a very concrete example of a real measured period from our recent past.
With apologies to Rudyard Kipling.
IF
Active Carbon Dioxide Distribution is:
a. 98% of Earths ( active ) CO2 is dissolved in the oceans.
b. 2% of Earths ( active ) CO2 is in the atmosphere.
c. 97% of atmospheric CO2 is of Natural Origin.
d. 3% of atmospheric CO2 is Human attributable.
And
e. Atmospheric H2O is about 95% of the total greenhouse effect.
It would seem then that if we want to control CO2 levels we need to control three items:
1. The oceans and 2. Water vapour 3. Natural CO2 emissions.
Logically the Atmospheric CO2 and Ocean origin CO2 interaction needs serious study and Human CO2 emissions are rendered insignificant by the shear weight of the Water GHG effect.
So the Total GHG effect is
1. Water about 95%
2. Total CO2 about 4% of GHG effect
3. Human proportion of CO2 is 3% of the above 4% or 0.12 % of all CO2 effect.
IF
If world atmospheric temperature rose by 0.6 C degrees over the last 150 years from 1860 (maybe).
And if Greenhouse gases are the only cause of this rise (very debateable).
And if human origin CO2 is to be taken into account.
THEN.
Our part of the world’s green house gas effect is 0.0009 C degrees of the temperature rise of 0.6 C degrees. (calculated as a max).
The rest is nature.
Likewise we are responsible for 0.0045 mm of the annual 3mm ocean increase.
Over 100 years we would cause 0.45 mm sea rise.
Holy Crap Batman.
We’ve been had by the IPCC, WWF and many politicians.
The “revelation” above is simply confirmation of the real science.
When you quantify the “Green House” ( if I can use that term) effects:
• we have a major winner in Water
• followed by Natural produced CO2
• and way behind both in magnitude, Human Related CO2 struggling to make any visible impression on the system.
So CCS and Carbon Abatement, Carbon Footprint, Responsible Energy and other catchphrases of the Church of AGW may now be consigned to the sin bin where they belong.
This has been my last post as I feel that it is time to go back.
Good luck.
40
Time to go back to where?
By the way Kinky Keith MFJ is a male posting under ——his Grand Mothers name.
20
Hi Crakar24
Yes I know.
She used to appear in my dreams and say how pissed off she was about the Global Warming thing and could I post her ideas on this new internet thing.
Sadly she passed away in Hamilton in 1937 and doesn’t know how to use a computer.
“Time to go back to where?” She’s buried in Sandgate.
Spooky but not as spooky as politics; that’s really twisted.
20
Sorry Crakar24 that should be “Great” Grand Mothers Maiden name
20
Ah it is all clear to me now. You really are Kinky LOL.
By the way is Sandgate near Newcastle?
Cheers
20
It’s about 5 miles out west and is sometimes known as “the dead centre of Newcastle”.
20
Ah yes drove past the turn off many times but ever went there.
20
Give it time Crakar. Time.
20
Well with the rapture now postponed time be all i have.
20
A number of metallurgists from the old daze were at the Jonova _ Lord Monckton presentation at the workers club — our studies make us well qualified to talk about hot dangerous gases and stuff like that.
20
I understand the MFJ to KK transformation … you are a cross-dresser! 🙂
20
Nuh
20
SO how does a GHG work? Water included..The so called greehouse effect only applies to glass houses and NOT atmospheres.
20
The term GHG effect is , for me, just a colloquial way of labeling the mechanism of ground IR (heat) absorption by various atm gases.
All it does is slow the loss of ground IR energy to space.
20
You must be joking. You know that positive feedback that climate scientists are so fond of are based in part on water vapour? Why would they not acknowledge something central to their understanding? Are they fools?
11
Quote: “”You know that positive feedback that climate scientists are so fond of””
Unfortunately for the Climate Catastrophe John there is no such animal as Pos FB.
If there was we would all have been incinerated by now.
20
JB,
I think the point they are trying to make is that in the IPCC documents in the section where they list all the GHG’s they do not list water vapor, now this could be a typographical error but i doubt it.
Your point about FB is correct per se but water vapor is a major GHG the FB you mention will either add or subtract from the initial warming primarily caused by the GHG water vapor.
So in answer to your question Are the fools? No of course not they are manipulators of truth, they have lied by omission. You are the fool because you have bought into the lies, you constantly call CO2 a pollutant but when i post a story which shows we rely heavily on CO2 to exist you fail to respond. You simply dance around the point like a fairy at the bottom of the garden with fingers in ears squealing LALALALALALALALL.
20
Sorry Crakar, but the reason water vapour is not listed is because it is a feedback, not a forcing. That is, the amount of water in the atmosphere is primarily a function of temperature. So if it warms a bit, then the atmosphere can (and will) hold more water, which amplifies the warming.
You can’t pump water vapour into the atmosphere in the hope of increasing the greenhouse effect. Excess water will just fall back out pretty quickly. You can pump CO2 into the atmosphere, and it takes a long time for the atmospheric concentration to drop again.
10
OK JB lest play the game, if i add water vapor to the atmosphere in theory this will increase the temp. The temp goes up, oceans warm/snow melts and CO2 is released, ie WV is a driver and CO2 is a feed back therefore i have just demonstrated how feeble your attempts to avoid the obvious are.
20
MaryFJohnston will no longer be posting here.
She came to learn about the Global Warming catastrophe and to try to understand its many nuances and feels that has been achieved.
She especially wanted to thank you for all the Green thumbs up ticks and said she liked being here.
30
sorry to see her go!
Just a picky point about err Mary’s post above (and this makes no difference to your conclusions or anything),
point e. would be the % of oceanic CO2 that is human attributable.
20
Sorry Gee
“point e. would be the % of oceanic CO2 that is human attributable.”
It is Atmospheric since that is the item the Warmers like to play with.
And don’t tell me that Human CO2 accumulates in the air while Natural CO2 is dealt with by nature to give a separate and perfect Natural Balance”.
If you do the maths it probably should be 0.00072 C deg rise over 150 years but I’ve allowed the greatest possible leeway to the Warmer side of the argument.
All the Crap about MMGW is about 0.12% of the Total CO2 effect.
20
I wasn’t going to tell you anything!
20
Well, MaryFJohnston will be missed. She had a rare sense of wit.
I guess her great grandson will also be missed, should he decide to quit posting as well. Although I have to say, that he is not a patch on his great grand mother. That lady had style. 🙂
20
What a sendoff.
Two reds.
10
This is bizarre !!!
What about the climate scam, and anyway……
Now that you have come out KK, does that mean you will support the ALP Gay Marriage Proposal.
HHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH !!!!!!!
10
Most people use a pseudonym.
I am guessing that “The Black Adder” is not your real name.
I just chose the one I did because it is easy to remember (important at my age) a little bit twisted (stirring is good) and mainly resulted from some family history research I was doing.
As for the gay thing; it is time that we began to understand the origin of this situation so that gay people can live a more stable life without needing to take on trappings of the “gay clan” for security.
WE are all conceived as female and depending on whether development in the womb is interrupted at a critical stage there may or may not be irregularities.
Some end up as a male brain (as nature intended) in a female body (switch to male stopped) and some as female brain (as intended) in male body (forced change from intended female). It’s been while since I studied this stuff but that’s basically it.
HAAAAAA
This is the science of where gays come from. If nature hadn’t made our genetic code this flukey we wouldn’t have survived this long as a species.
It’s the secrte of human success == we can adapt.
10
So which will leave the EU first?
The UK?
Greece?
Germany?
Does anyone want to take a punt (Rhymes with banker)?
On an offtopic, I suspect the communists are behind the occupy wall street. In greece, the communists are starting to fight the anarchists, which to me indicates they are feeling confident that they no longer need the antagonists in play.
If the commies take power in greece, and like most first revolutions, they fail, I suspect the extreme right will be there waiting in the wings.
And here i was a few years ago thinking this crap had been buried..
10
Mad Jack,
Apparently the Germans have been busy printing Marks for when they leave on their own accord, the UK have never really officially joined the EU and the Greeks will be kicked out.
My money is that it will all happen at the same time.
10
Sri Lanka??? Just kidding, MJ. Germany first to bail, Greece martial law within 6 months- what odds you offering?
10
Sri lanka – of course, what were you thinking?
My bet is the EU will disintegrate in typically slow, beaurocratic fashion. UK first, Germany second, Greece being fed to the fish probably before either happens.
So without the EU will the UK be bound by EU ETS regs?
I think we will end up with napoleonic europe and independant europe surrounding it.
Interesting times, as they say.
10
MadJak,
A reasonable analysis, but you have to follow the money.
The problem countries are (1) Greece, (2) Spain, and (3) Italy. There is not much between these three countries.
Germany and France have been carrying the EU for years now, and they have a lot of sunk cost that they will not want to walk away from.
The UK has been underwriting France and Germany, so if they go, it will be left holding the baby, dirty diapers and all.
These are the players with the most of lose if the EU implodes, so they will try to keep it afloat for as long as possible.
My pick is that the first to call it quits will be one of the Scandinavian countries. They can see that they will be left with the bad paper when the bubble bursts, so will want to bail first. The only question is when?
10
Rereke,
I guess it comes down to capitulation really. The french and UK banks are basket cases themselves.
The fittest will survive, but I’d bet they’re taking note of which exits to take (before the others).
10
Dont forget Iceland………..no sorry i forgot they refused to be debt slaves to the IMF instead they sacked the government and jailed the bankers, wrote a new constitution from peoples input over the internet and now their economy is doing just fine thank you very much.
Cheers
10
Well done Iceland! They probably don’t need an “Occupy Reykjavik” movement. Nice.
10
Listen to this rather erudite analysis of the whole EU mess and the underlying causes of it. Sometimes the ABC get people on radio that actually know what they are talking about. Go figure …
10
The UK was at least smart enough not to get involved with the Eurodoller directly and with the Chanel they are miles ahead of other Euro countries.
Germans are now coming to the realisation that the Greeks have suckered German workers into bankrolling their 10 year long euro-party and are going to kick up a stink.
Greece is Greece. They feel entitled and unhappy that the party is over.
Welcome to the Drachma.
Or is that welcome back.
10
It is not the Eurodollar, it is the Euro. Chanel is French perfume. And there are no Euro countries, they are EU countries within the “single currency”. Really, your great grandmother would not have made these mistakes. 🙂
10
Yeah
As Kinky I’m too lazy to check. 🙂
10
Reality is, this has been using up a lot of time and energy.
Good to have done it and learned so much about politics and AGW and Academic Greed and the UN etc but my effort is needed elsewhere
— gotta lighten up a bit — not good to be focused on chasing ugly stuff; it makes you feel the world is more doomed than it really is.
Gotta getta job and the earn some money to patch the hole made by the GFC.
10
What a wonderful world we live in.
After bombing the most affluent and progressive Islamic governments in Africa back to the stone age we now have this.
http://news.yahoo.com/libyas-transitional-leader-declares-liberation-155513082.html
For those of you not familiar with the term Sharia law think Taliban or Saudi Arabia. So we have gone from one dictator to another……..but he is our dictator.
In other news the US have been kicked out of Iraq, they must leave by December 2011, no soldiers can remain after this date, no US prisons, no US bases, no US oil and gas contracts no nothing. What a colossal waste of human life, 4,000 US dead and near on one million Iraqi’s.
Whilst i am here i see that Afghanistan had stated that if the US invade Pakistan then Afghanistan will side with the Paki’s another colossal waste of human life by the US.
10
Polygamy is back. Maybe the new Islamic fundamentalist president will have some common ground with Mitt? Now that was worth all the killing. Solitudinem fecerunt, pacem appelunt (They made a desert and called it peace) Tacitus
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8844819/Libyas-liberation-interim-ruler-unveils-more-radical-than-expected-plans-for-Islamic-law.html
10
Well that all went well.Good to see the Libyan’s set up a secular democracy.When will the west ever learn.
10
Well the ride aint over yet folks
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/10/mccain-raises-prospect-of-military.html
The holy crusade has turned its gun sights on Syria which will be another Libya all over again which will drag in Iran as Syria and Iran have a defence pact, which will drag in China and Russia who have oil deals with Iran, you can probably throw in Turkey for good measure.
10
Source –
http://pakarmydefence.blogspot.com/
Wed. 19th Oct. 2011
Israel vs Turkey:Is Nuclear War Ahead Of Us!
“The total destruction of Israel, something used by the Zionist lobby to bilk the US out of billions for years, is no longer a dream, it is inevitable. The only question is “when?” With it a limited world war may emerge with some surprises in store. It all started long ago but we can focus back one year when Israel murdered 9 Turkish citizens in an act of piracy, peace activists on an aid ship heading for Gaza. Aid ships heading for Gaza now get a military escort from the Turkish Navy and Turkey’s president is heading for Gaza and Egypt now, to slap Israel down.
A year ago, Israel and Turkey were best of friends. Their spy agencies in the US shared nuclear secrets, sold them to China, North Korea, Pakistan, Brazil, worked as partners blackmailing half of Washington’s army of corrupt officials and traitorous military officers. Patriotism in Washington is rare nowadays, considered stupid. Washington is all about “globalism” and “no borders,” about corporations, not “America.” To most in Washington, America is a joke, a bankrupt “has been” nation drowning in debt with a military now useless, spread across the globe running errands for a cabal of international bankers.
Turkey also has a huge army, a mobile army and a military tradition of relentlessness and, to be truthful, cruelty. Israel has been pointing that out of late, how Turkey wiped out the Armenians, much as Israel is wiping out the Palestinians. Problem is, Turkey’s army is big, highly disciplined, capable of supporting military operations across the entire Middle East, allied with Iraq, Iran and Egypt and considers Israel’s killings of Turkish citizens last year as an act of war.
Israel has controlled the PKK, the communist terror group that has killed thousands in Turkey. Israel is threatening to unleash them again. In meetings with leaders in Iraq, however, I was told that Turkish military actions against the PKK, even inside Iraq were welcomed. Kurds in Iraq hate the PKK and have long seen it as destructive. Northern Iraq is closely aligned with Turkey, their economy is totally dependent on Turkey, much more than Baghdad. Hopes for a Kurdish nation are dependent on good relations with Turkey and those relations have improved continually for some time.
Thus, Turkey will be doing a “road trip” to gain allies against Israel and to flank US backing, blackmailing the US. As Turkey has nearly all US nuclear secrets, gotten through their spy partnership with AIPAC, something we were told of when I interviewed FBI informants within the Bush White House, they have things to trade. Turkey can turn out thermonuclear weapons quickly.
Nobody will benefit from this, not the Palestinian people, not Egypt, only those who wish to see Israel have their faces in the dirt. There is a problem with this. There was some hope that Israel itself might have a rebirth of democracy, with 500,000 demonstrators demanding the resignation of Netanyahu’s ultra-nationalist government last week, their was a hope.”
10
I came across a site that gives it to Chubb its a bit old (sep27)
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2011/09/ian-chubb-warmest-decade-we-have-ever-had/
Here is an interesting take on CO2 (one for our residence warmers to respond to)
http://learnbuteyko.co.uk/about/the-bohr-effect-and-the-role-of-carbon-dioxide/
Is CO2 really a pollutant?
10
Hi Crakar24
I posted on the CO2 as neurological moderator some time back (as MFJ).
Singing is good for you as it increases CO2 levels in bloodstream.
Breathing into paper bag also increases CO2 internally and reduces panic.
When you decide to check out permanently the “Cheyne-Stokes” breathing pattern is induced and that mechanism would suggest bloodstream hyper oxygenation and consequent reduction of CO2.
10
“Cheyene stokes” hey, i must say since you stopped channelling your great grand mother your posts have become more death centric :))
It is interesting how reliant we are on CO2, i spose this is why it has been rebadged as “carbon pollution” so as to dupe the simpletons (JB, MattB, Blimey et al).
But yes you are correct the CS syndrome would reduce the patients ability to pass O2 from red cells to tissue matter and consequently hasten the end.
10
Have not studied CS at Uni but from general net reading it seems that lowered bloodstream O2 needs a CO2 trigger.
Sounds very complicated.
CS is very long slow intake (obviously effective oxygenation) with short rapid exhalation.
Singing is short intake with slow controlled exhalation (builds up CO2)
10
I participated in an experiment which involved taking a breath of 50% CO2, 50% air. It is really freaky doing this. If you can arrange it, have a try…
Another way you can see the useful side of CO2 is to breath helium (or nitrogen). Take a deep breath of helium. Wait until you feel you need to breath again. Take another breath of helium. Repeat until you faint. If you just do it a couple of times, you’ll notice that you feel out of breath, as though you’ve been running.
Apparently, its the CO2 level in your lungs which makes you want to breath. You breath helium, and it reduces the concentration of CO2 in your lungs, so you feel fine. CO2 then increases in your lungs as it comes out of your blood, and enters your lungs – so you need to breath again. Take another breath of helium and again the need to breath goes away. But the oxygen levels in your blood are falling, and you’ll pass out if you keep going.
10
John Brookes
Good luck to you in your experimentation.
Would advise that nobody “tries this at home’
10
JB
As an addendum to above, the whole mechanism of Cheyne Stokes breathing at death appears to be the oxygenation of the bloodstream and consequent reduction of CO2 until there is so little CO2 in the system that the NEXT BREATH IS NOT TRIGGERED.
ie death ensues.
10
So back to the original question JB, based on the info in post would you still consider CO2 a pollution?
10
Crakar, CO2 is like everything else, its a pollutant in the wrong place or the wrong quantity.
10
Ah JB i love the way you guys come back with responses parrot fashion, you read that on a warmers information dissemination site but dont understand its meaning.
We breathe in 21% oxygen but breathe out 16 to 17% this is one example where your parrot has let you down.
We breathe in 0.04% CO2 but breathe out 4% of CO2 that is 40,000 ppm JB so if we have the ability to produce 100 times the amount of CO2 in our bodies than is in the atmosphere at what ppm does CO2 become a pollutant?
I will give you a moment to confer with your parrot.
10
Forgot this one about BEST
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100112834/global-warming-is-real/
10
I have posted an article analysing BOM’s explanations for adjustments at
kenskingdom.wordpress.com
10
Beware! the text says wordpress.com but the link url is wordpreess.com and takes you to a phishing site.
10
Ouch!!! How did that happen!! Sorry folks- I’ll try again.
kenskingdom.wordpress.com/
Ken
10
this deceptive Murdoch media piece had the usual chimney pic to illustrate the fantasy this morning, but has now replaced it with a pic of a crowd of CAGW fanatics:
24 Oct: Sky News: CO2 targets achievable with action
The study, published in the journal Nature Climate Change, warns that the targets made at United Nations conferences in Copenhagen in 2009 and Cancun in 2010 could be slipping away if action is not taken.
The review examined nearly 200 different scenarios from scientific literature.
If found that the target of 44 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide-equivalent emissions is a feasible milestone.
The study’s senior author Dr Malte Meinshausen from the University of Melbourne said it is vital that the growing emission trend is reversed this decade…
http://www.skynews.com.au/eco/article.aspx?id=677187&vId=
doesn’t Meinshausen sound so authorative?
March 2011: nofrakkingconsensus: Peer into the Heart of the IPCC, Find Greenpeace
In 2009 EcoEquity, an activist think tank, observed that both Hare and a person named Malte have both “long been key members of the Greenpeace International climate team.” Indeed, Malte Meinshausen‘s Greenpeace ties stretch back to June 2001 when he and Hare co-authored a Greenpeace analysis related to the Kyoto Protocol. Throughout 2002 and 2003 Meinshausen’s name, often accompanied by a Greenpeace e-mail address, appeared on a number of Greenpeace statements and press releases (see here, here, and here).
But these facts did not prevent him from being recruited as a contributing author to not one, not two, but three chapters of the 2007 climate bible. Like Klein, above, Meinshausen’s participation is yet more proof that some IPCC authors are anything but world-class experts at the height of their careers. Meinshausen only received his doctorate in 2005.
A number of passages in the 2007 climate bible blandly cite research papers authored by Hare and Meinshausen as though it’s immaterial that they are Greenpeace personnel (see here and here, for example). Indeed, the IPCC goes so far as to reprint a graph that first appeared in a paper for which these two men are the sole authors.
And people wonder why the IPCC’s reputation has sunk so low.
http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2011/03/14/peer-into-the-heart-of-the-ipcc-find-greenpeace/
10
http://www.just-think-it.com/no-f.htm
Fluoride The Invisible Killer
(2) Avoid it
Note that I did not say “Remove it” because this is not possible, contrary to what countless manufacturers are claiming. The key reasons why not: (1) Fluorine’s extreme reactiveness, causing it to “cling” more tightly to water than anything I am aware of, and
(2) the size of the F atom.
We have already dealt with one aspect of the Fluorine atom’s size — that it makes the atom extremely reactive.
The second aspect of Fluorine can be revealed by comparing the weight of a “mole” (602,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms) of F to that of a mole of H2O (water). [To confirm the calculation, refer to the Periodic Table of the Elements graphic above.] F weighs 19 grams per mole (g/M), H2O weighs 18 g/M.
Summoning another well known rule of chemistry, that the size of a molecule/atom is directly related to its molecular weight and we can infer that these two molecules are almost identical in size.
Ineffectiveness of Reverse Osmosis units
Reverse Osmosis [RO] manufacturers’ claim they can remove fluoride. Don’t believe their claim$.
RO units work on the same principle as our kidneys. Think of a mesh, like the mosquito netting on your screen door. The mesh lets in air, but not mosquitos, because air molecules are smaller than mosquitos.
An RO unit is thus great for removing “heavy metals” like Pb (Lead), Hg (Mercury) and Cd (Cadmium), as well as Cl- family compounds like PCBs and PCP’s (Poly Chlorinated Phenyls and BiPhenyls) because these are all large molecules relative to the size of H2O. In fact, even Cl (the smallest of these) is relative large (molecular weight of 35 g/M) and so if the RO unit is new and it is well made (ie. with precision tolerances on the RO membrane) it might even filter out some of the Cl. Note the “ifs” and conditions in the last sentence.
So, an RO unit will not filter out F atoms, as F atoms are too similar in size to H2O molecules.
Equally Ineffective Distillation units
Distillation units will also not work because similar sized polar molecules have similar boiling and freezing points.
Water boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit and FH boils at 203 to 239 degress Fahrenheit. So, when your distillation unit has warmed up the water to 212 degrees Fahrenheit, and the water starts to boil off (evaporate), *so* does the Fluoride! It stays right with the water vapor, and gets condensed back into liquid at the end of the process.
So, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise and don’t trust those that do.
………………………….
So if fluoride sticks with water and CFC’s [F] are said to deplete the ozone layer why are the powers that be putting it in our public water supplies?
10
Nothing should be put in public water supplies except pathogen killers (Cl) and then with regulated amounts to only make the water potable.
10
And yet life expectancy in areas with fluoridated water is not different to areas without fluoridated water. What gives?
10
We would not purposely add arsenic to the water supply. And we would not purposely add lead. But we add fluoride. The fact is that fluoride is more toxic than lead and just slightly less toxic than arsenic.”
* * * * * * * * *
“The federal maximum contaminant level (MCL) for lead is 15 parts per billion (ppb), 5 ppb for arsenic and 4000 ppb for fluoride.”
http://www.just-think-it.com/no-f.htm
10
Some interesting correspondence re the statistical methods used in the BEST project.
http://www.informath.org/apprise/a5700.htm
Pointman
10
Hmm so The Australian has gone behind a pay wall.Well I wish then the best of luck.Bit of a pity seeing how they are only one of a couple of
MSM with a reasonably unbiased view.
10
If by “unbiased” you mean they give equal weight to silly opinions, then, yes, they are unbiased.
10
“Silly”, relative to what?
10
Reality, Rereke, reality.
10
More wacky out there humor! Yay!
Be interesting to see how they go behind the pay wall. Apparently some of the more balanced opinion pieces like from George Megalogenis will still available without subscription.
10
Jo,
The difficulty I find in overall science is accuracy.
Scientists sacrificed accuracy for good enough generalized theories and keep encouraging more inaccuracies by employing the thesis method in education on the traditional methods.
Models are generated that do not know ALL the parameters, yet are encouraged by other scientists to be true and accurate. Strictly following temperatures to see if the planet is healthy and ignoring ALL other areas for an unimportant period of time in this planets existence is a huge joke.
Where can scientific points be challenged?
The consensus of scientist made sure every avenue is blocked to anyone not in the consensus. Even NASA will not look at any science not following the strict discipline imposed to keep NASA totally enclosed to itself by the grant system and competition to follow science the way they designed their science.
10
Hey there Westies, here’s one for the “Free Speech” category.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/10816976/jail-threat-for-protester-during-chogm/
On the one hand, there’s never been such a thing as a right to free speech, just like there’s no Easter Bunny.
On the other hand, there’s no obvious reason why people with a bee in their bonnet shouldn’t be able to protest and heckle relevant figures of authority if they have a chance. In this case I don’t see the Queen as being relevant to anything, not even “human rights”, unless she’d like to pause momentarily on the red carpet between the limousine and the aeroplane door and support our right to exhale without being charged money by cancelling the carbon tax.
Mmm, thought not.
What’s the point of this government exclusion list? They don’t need to tell you you’re on a list if they just want to keep an eye on troublemakers. Conversely, there should be no harm in making the list public if the majority would agree with the reasons for the exclusions. The fact there is a list which is not public and which is decided by the police Commissioner without judicial oversight just smells of totalitarianism. That doesn’t mean the system is being abused, it just means it can be abused.
10
Following Doug Keenan’s response to the “BEST” effort, I put together some notes on the measurement of the thermodynamic state of the climate system. Rational feedback to my thoughts is welcome.
“Pull text”:
Unlike “global temperature”, the enthalpy figure is a real thing.
Apologies if you’re already ignoring it via WUWT.
10
Yes, as I discussed in #4.2.1.1.1, temperature is an intensive parameter and therefore cannot properly be averaged and still have a physical interpretation.
Enthalpy, on the other hand, is an extensive parameter and therefor can be properly averaged. The resulting average, if the data is properly sampled and averaged, does have a physical interpretation. A change in average enthalpy represents a real average change in the amount of energy. To use an average of average point temperatures no matter how sampled globally, results in a computable but totally uninterpretable number. It has absolutely no physical meaning whatsoever. This is basic statistics, physics, and chemistry usually studied during the second or third year of a chemistry or physics undergraduate major.
There is a mindless worship of data and a wide spread belief that the more data the better. Hence an average of a billion numbers is felt always to be “better” than an average of three numbers. This is totally not so.
The interpretation of data is not to be found in the numbers themselves nor in their count. The interpretation comes from the qualitative information about the measurement method and the full context of the data collection process. Given a correct design, a study based upon three numbers can yield far more reliable information about what actually is than the collection of a billion numbers from a poorly designed study. This is nothing but introductory statistics and should be known to anyone who uses numbers to justify conclusions.
There is no proper design for a study who’s purpose is to compute global average temperature. There is even less possible to have a proper design for a study to compute the average global temperature anomaly. Hence, the AGW hoopla is a fraud, intended to be a fraud, and is nothing but a smokescreen to cover up a fraud. Everyone who is cashing in on the fraud either knows it is a fraud our should know it.
10
@Andrew McRae
If a system can be abused, it will be, especially when there’s no mechanism for public oversight of its operation. Since I can’t see the subject presenting any physical threat, it looks like the abuse is happening in this case. Thin end of the wedge stuff.
Pointman
10
One thing I learned from a website that I won’t mention here because you’ve got to pick the bones out of it and the rest leaves one open to rabid criticim, is that apparently the U.S.A. has two flags – one is a military flag and the other is a civil flag.
The U.S. always fly’s the military flag.
10
“….Before 1940, no U.S. flag, civil or military, flew within the forty-eight states except in federal settings and installations. Only state flags did. Since the 1935 institution of Social Security and the Buck Act of 1940, 4 U.S.C.S. Ch. 4 Sec. 104-113, by clever legal maneuvers the feds have entirely circumvented the U.S. Constitution, and have overlaid federal territorial jurisdiction on the sovereign States, bringing them under the admiralty/military jurisdiction of Law Merchant, the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), the law of Creditors and Debtors.
Since then the U.S. military flag appears beside, or in place of, the state flags in nearly all locations within the states. All of the state courts and even the municipal ones now openly display it. In the last half century they have more openly declared the military/admiralty law jurisdiction with the addition of the gold fringe to the flag, the military flag of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces.
Such has been the path that has brought us under the Law of the Military Flag. This should have raised serious questions from many citizens long ago, but we’ve been educated to listen and believe what we are told, not to ask questions, or think for ourselves and search for the truth…..”
http://www.barefootsworld.net/uscivilflag.html
10
From the department of “You could not possibly make this shit up”
In 2007 The King of Geothermia stated
“Climate Commissioner Tim Flannery talks to a fellow warmist in 2007:
TONY JONES: Now given that Australia sends to China and India huge volumes of the coal that they are burning, could there come a time, without drastic change to the way it is burnt, where it’s no longer in our national interests to export coal?
PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: The social licence of coal to operate is rapidly being withdrawn globally, and no government can protect an industry from that sort of thing occurring. We’ve seen it with asbestos. We’ll see it with coal. The reason is that, when you look at the proportion of the damage being done by coal now, it is significant, but that grows greatly in future. We have to deal with that issue if we want a stable climate.”
THE nation’s most prominent environmentalist, Tim Flannery, has spoken out in support of the coal-seam gas industry, warning that opposition to such exploration could lead to “social dislocation” across regional Australia.
Professor Flannery, who is one of the Gillard government’s national climate commissioners, also said mining and its products were “utterly necessary” to modern life, and predicted the Australian coal industry would enjoy robust growth for perhaps the next 25 years.
However, speaking at the NSW Minerals Council environment and community conference in Wollongong, south of Sydney, Professor Flannery said rising popular opposition to mining meant the industry’s future had “never been under a greater challenge than it is today”.
Now i know Bob likes to read Jo’s blog so heres one for you Bob
Like many alarmist, Greens leader Bob Brown says a warming world is bringing more floods:
“It’s the single biggest cause – burning coal – for climate change and it must take its major share of responsibility for the weather events we are seeing unfolding now,” he said in Hobart today.
“We know that the oceans around Australia are at record high temperatures, and that’s causing the moisture in the air which is leading to these catastrophic floods…”
But a team from the National Technical University of Athens has now counted the floods over the past 30 years, and says, if anything, the world is getting fewer, not more:
Analysis of trends and of aggregated time series on climatic (30-year) scale does not indicate consistent trends worldwide. Despite common perception, in general, the detected trends are more negative (less intense floods in most recent years) than positive. Similarly, Svensson et al. (2005) and Di Baldassarre et al. (2010) did not find systematical change neither in flood increasing or decreasing numbers nor change in flood magnitudes in their analysis.
I wonder if Bob Brown could possibly be wrong again?
Oh my the believers must be twisted tormented souls
From http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/
10
Unsceptical sceptics, Dr Stephan Lewandowsky and Dr Ullrich Ecker, in The Skeptic, explain that sceptics are more likely to distinguish “the right from the wrong” whilst uncritically accepting the bogus claims in Merchants of Doubt.
10
What I’d like to see, is one of you fellas (or lasses) present your arguments at SkS without getting modblocked. That means no rudeness, no allegations of impropriety and sourcing the stuff you say. Pretty hard huh?
10
“”sourcing the stuff you say””
You mean like sources by warmers??
The idea that you need a PhD to understand this fraud is ridiculous.
For a , basic science, refutation of the CO2 Global Warming threat see @9 above.
If the “alarming ” “forcing” of water vapour by CO2 was real then so would be the alarming forcing of water by other water sources. We would all be incinerated.
We live on a world that is surrounded by a gigantic heat sink.
We are lucky it is a self limiting system that gives a final temperature right about where we need it.
The “science” of runaway Global Waring is fraudlent. It’s all over bar thedismantling of the Politics and that was well underway at the Copenhagen Climate Change Cancellation Conference..
Ha Ha De Ha Ha Ha
10
Been there, done that, got “disappeared”.
Besides, now that Cook has been caught out going back (months later) and changing his original posts, AND the resultant critiques by sceptical commentators to paint himself and his articles in a better light, there doesn’t seem much point.
Instead, since you seem to claim acquaintance with the charlatan, how about you get Cook to post one of his ridiculous “science” explanations over at WUWT where ALL commentators get treated equally, and articles don’t get altered after the event. I’m sure Anthony would welcome the opportunity.
I suggest starting with “The Thermal Inertia of the Oceans”. That’s the one where Trenberth’s Travesty “missing heat” is “hiding in the deep oceans” from whence it will come back in forty year’s time and bite us on the bum and it will all be “worse than we first thought”.
At least, that’s what it was about last year when I read and commented on it. Given Cook’s propensity for changing facts after the fact, it could well be an article on Polar Bears farting under water by now.
10
I have just finished reading “The Delinquent Teenager” by Donna Lafromboise. This book is an expose on the internal workings and significant failings of the IPCC. Here is the author being interviewed by Sun TV in Canada. http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/1236389234001/
Australian farmers have had their land stolen from them by both our Federal and State governments, with some farmers ending up in jail for breaking the law. All of this came about because of our agreement to meet the Kyoto Protocol.
Here is one of many quotes from this book: (emphasis mine)
10
Thanks – useful
10
You should see the discussion over at Climate Etc. Talk about denial! Several there are trying to deny that Pachauri meant “peer reviewed” when he said it. I guess they are still trying to figure out the meaning of the word “is” as well.
10
16 things Libyans will never see again
1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens.
2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at zero percent interest by law.
3. Having a home considered a human right in Libya.
4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 dinar (U.S.$50,000) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.
5. Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25 percent of Libyans were literate. Today, the figure is 83 percent.
6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and livestock to kickstart their farms are all for free.
7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need, the government funds them to go abroad, for it is not only paid for, but they get a U.S.$2,300/month for accommodation and car allowance.
8. If a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidizes 50 percent of the price.
9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0.14 per liter.
10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves amounting to $150 billion are now frozen globally.
11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession, as if he or she is employed, until employment is found.
12. A portion of every Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.
13. A mother who gives birth to a child receive U.S.$5,000.
14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $0.15.
15. 25 percent of Libyans have a university degree.
16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Manmade River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country.
Yep the world is a better place with him gone.
10
not sure where this list came from it is a terrible distortion.
Many points partly or wholly apply only to certain elite groups (e.g medicine) of certain ethnic backgrounds.
Number 5 applies to most countries over.
Some are irrelevant. point 1 is great if you are one of the few with supply. 2 would be good if loans were given freely to anyone for anything.
How do you account for other human rights not being honoured? Please don’t say they are an invention of the west so as to discredit his regime.
And finally, the thing you didn’t mention. How much better would it have been without him.
10
Gee Aye, do you think that those rebels are really nice people who respect human rights? Why didn’t the West mention this on the news?
Gaddafi Sodomized By NATO Supported Rebels
Video shows abuse frame by frame (GRAPHIC)
An analysis appears to confirm that a rebel fighter sodomized Gaddafi with a knife.
By Tracey Shelton
October 25, 2011 “Global Post” — SIRTE, Libya — An analysis of video obtained by GlobalPost from a rebel fighter who recorded the moment when Col. Muammar Gaddafi was first captured confirms that another rebel fighter, whose identity is unknown, sodomized the former leader as he was being dragged from the drainpipe where he had taken cover.
A frame by frame analysis of this exclusive GlobalPost video clearly shows the rebel trying to insert some kind of stick or knife into Gaddafi’s rear end.
WARNING
Pictures and Videos should only be viewed by a mature audience
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29508.htm
10
See Ezra Levant interviews Daniel Pipes.
For all his faults Gaddafi did not act completely alone; he was aided and abetted by people who now claim to have opposed him all along.
10
Kevin… the post I responded to was not about the rebels. Saying one person is bad is not the same as saying the others are good.
10
The ‘Ministry of Truth’ has been exposed –
“Libya:Testimony of Lizzie Phelan – 11 October, 2011”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkoG_V6AA8g
10
GA,
You first need to understand that there are protests and there are protests for example the protests in Egypt, Libya and Syria are protests but the ones in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Israel and the USA are not. You need to realise that Libya was a very well developed islamic country (not all of them are piles of sand).
Now on to the list
1, everyone had free electricity
2, Islamic banks do not charge interest that is a fact, why do you think no Islamic bank is failing like the ones in the west?
3, Self explanitory
4, I got nothing how about you?
5, I need to pay for some medicines and it will cost me shit tins for my children to get educated (uni etc)
6, We are forcing our farmers off the land through carbon taxes and corporate profits etc
7, What luxury
8, As above
9, i paid $1.70 this morning
10, What is our debt, 150 mill a day or something?
11, we give ours a debt, then offshore all the good paying jobs to China
12, Cant wait for my MRRT cheque
13, We did that here and plasma TV sales went through the roof
14, $80.27
15, Not sure how this compares but 25% is quite high for a murderous dictator, usually they stop their poeples from being educated.
16, I remember a WA liberal leader(opposition) stated one of his election promises was to pipe water from lake argyle through the desert and down to Perth. The idea was laughed at by Labor and the dumb schmucks in WA bought it. So Labor got back in, and as i type billions of clean fresh water continues to flow out to sea. I am suprised a murderous dictator would have a far greater insight than a Labor pollie.
Lets face it GA you have been programmed to believe certain things so others can get away with murder, i understand you struggle to digest this type of info. Thats why i am here (as a friend) to help you through the process.
I watched the Occupy Oakland arrests, there was tear gas, flash bang grenades, batons you name it as the protest was declared illegal the only thing missing was a NATO airstrike.
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It was sectarian not islamic and I can’t be bothered responding to the rest. I’m on holiday. Please hold off posting misinformation and other stuff that baits me for about two weeks.
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The source of most of this list seems to be Prince Akyeampong of Ghana.
http://news.peacefmonline.com/features/201109/68485.php
He’s the guy who praises Gaddafi for allowing women equal rights in Libya, and yet in his own country he demands that the Ghana parliament ban homosexuality.
It would take a fair amount of research to determine how much of these 16 items were true. Whilst I realise the CIA World Fact Book may not be the most unbiased source in the world, I think the economic numbers are probably more trustworthy than their textual characterisations.
Commercial bank prime lending rate: 6% (31 December 2010 est.)
Clearly not zero.
External Debt: $5.884 billion (31 December 2009 est.)
Not very large by our standards, but clearly not zero.
Literacy: male: 92.4%, female: 72% (2003 est.)
So this fact was indeed factual. No pre-Gaddafi number is available for comparison, but an improvement during Gaddafi’s reign must have occurred. “School life expectancy (primary to tertiary education): total: 17 years, male: 16 years, female: 17 years (2003)” This shows gender equality has been reached in current education and so the lower female literacy rate overall is just baggage from earlier generations.
On the other hand, Libya imported 75% of its food, so the party may end in mass starvation when the oil runs out, subject to GMMR effect on agriculture.
At this point I stopped research.
I think Gaddafi was too good. He committed the two unpardonable sins of A) using his oil to be largely self sufficient, and B) daring to discuss the possibility of selling oil in a currency other than USD. (see here)
It is a similar situation to Iraq, except Gaddafi never gassed his own people.
Indeed it is hard to take as a serious threat a man who owed almost nothing to any other country, showered Libyans with socialist benefits, and dressed like Michael Jackson. A victim of the spasmodic death throes of the dying American empire.
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A War Crime Or an Act of War?
By Stephen C. pelletiere,
“…..This much about the gassing at Halabja we undoubtedly know: it came about in the course of a battle between Iraqis and Iranians. Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town, which is in northern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq’s main target.
And the story gets murkier: immediately after the battle the United States Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need-to-know basis. That study asserted that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas.
The agency did find that each side used gas against the other in the battle around Halabja. The condition of the dead Kurds’ bodies, however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent — that is, a cyanide-based gas — which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time.
These facts have long been in the public domain but, extraordinarily, as often as the Halabja affair is cited, they are rarely mentioned. A much-discussed article in The New Yorker last March did not make reference to the Defense Intelligence Agency report or consider that Iranian gas might have killed the Kurds. On the rare occasions the report is brought up, there is usually speculation, with no proof, that it was skewed out of American political favoritism toward Iraq in its war against Iran.
I am not trying to rehabilitate the character of Saddam Hussein. He has much to answer for in the area of human rights abuses. But accusing him of gassing his own people at Halabja as an act of genocide is not correct, because as far as the information we have goes, all of the cases where gas was used involved battles. These were tragedies of war. There may be justifications for invading Iraq, but Halabja is not one of them….”
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/war/iraq/kurds.shtml
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Lets not forget, the US pissed off with Iran kicking them out installed Saddam as their puppet and gave him the gas in the first place.
This is the type of person we are dealing with
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/27/santorum-dead-foreign-scientists-a-wonderful-thing/
Quote “On occasion, scientists working on the nuclear program in Iran turn up dead,” he explained. “I think that’s a wonderful thing, candidly.”
No trial, no evidence they have done anything wrong, no jury, no [presumption of innocence; just a quiet clandestine execution.
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Its all falling apart
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1027/breaking19.html
Afghanistan backs the pakis over US.
So, quit! Karzai doesn’t want the US in Afghanistan. The Afghan people don’t want the US in Afghanistan. The American people don’t want the US in Afghanistan. The soldiers don’t want to be in Afghanistan.
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A US marine shot in the head by a policemans rubber bullet at an Occupy protest is under going brain surgery, we now have an Occupy Marines. The US as we know it is all but gone, the revolution is about to begin.
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This mornings news said it was a tear gas canister?
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Aftermath News,
Video:
http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/
Iraq vet comes home to get shot in the face by Oakland police with “projectile”
He had served two tours in Iraq. PlanetEarthAwakens1 via YouTube
Scott Olsen was marching because he felt corporations and banks had too much government influence. He had served two tours in Iraq.
ASSOCIATED PRESS | Oct 26, 2011
OAKLAND, Calif. — Among demonstrators injured during a clash between Oakland police and protesters is a 24-year-old Marine veteran who served two tours in Iraq.
Dottie Guy, of the Iraq Veterans Against the War, an advocacy group for vets, said member Scott Olsen suffered a fractured skull. A spokesman for Highland Hospital in Oakland says he was in critical condition.
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/70914227/Military-Resistance-9J18-First-Blood
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http://www.gmanews.tv/story/177346/climate-change-pushes-poor-women-to-prostitition-dangerous-work
‘Climate change pushes poor women to prostitution, dangerous work’
JOSEPH HOLANDES UBALDE,
GMANews.TV
The Go To Site For Filipinos Everywhere
11/19/2009 | 01:19 PM
The effects of climate change have driven women in communities in coastal areas in poor countries like the Philippines into dangerous work, and sometimes even the flesh trade, a United Nations official said.
Suneeta Mukherjee, country representative of the United Nations Food Population Fund (UNFPA), said women in the Philippines are the most vulnerable to the effects of climate change in the country.
“Climate change could reduce income from farming and fishing, possibly driving some women into sex work and thereby increase HIV infection,” Mukherjee said during the Wednesday launch of the UNFPA annual State of World Population Report in Pasay City.
In the Philippines, small brothels usually pop up near the coastal areas where many women perform sexual services for transient seafarers. Often, these prostitutes are ferried to bigger ships by their pimps.
Based on the UNFPA report, there are 92 million Filipinos in the country as of 2009 and that number is expected to balloon to more than 146 million in the next 40 years.
Of the 92 million Filipinos, about 60 percent are living in coastal areas and depend on the seas for livelihood, said former Environment secretary Dr. Angel Alcala.
Alcala said that “we have already exceeded the carrying capacity of our marine environment.”
But as the sea’s resources are depleted due to overpopulation and overfishing, fishermen start losing their livelihood and women are forced to share the traditional role of the man in providing for the family.
Alacala, who also heads the Angelo King Center for Research and Environmental Management in Siliman University, said some women often pick out shellfish by the coastlines, which exposed to storm surges.
Women who can no longer endure this work often go out to find other jobs, while some are tempted to go into prostitution, Alcala added.
In an interview with the Inter Press News Agency, Marita Rodriguez of the Centre for Empowerment and Resource Development, Inc. said women are taking the brunt of climate change.
“Aside from their household chores and participation in fishing activity, they have to find additional sources of income like working as domestic helpers in affluent families,” she said.
The UNFPA noted that the temperature in the earth’s surface has risen 0.74 degrees Celsius in the past 100 years. The 10 warmest years globally since 1880 have also been recorded in the last 13 years.
“Slower population growth, for example, would help build social resilience to climate change’s impacts and would contribute to a reduction of greenhouse gas-emissions in the future,” the UNFPA report said.
The UNFPA suggested five measures to mitigate climate change and overpopulation:
•Bring a better understanding of population dynamics, gender and reproductive health to climate change and environmental discussions at all levels;
•Fully fund family planning services and contraceptive supplies within the framework of reproductive health and rights, and assure that low income is no barrier to access;
•Prioritize research and date collection to improve the understanding of gender and population dynamics in climate change mitigation and adaptation;
•Improve sex-disaggregation of date related to migration flows that are influenced by environmental factors and prepare now for increases in population movements resulting from climate change; and
•Integrate gender considerations into global efforts to mitigate and adapt to climate change.
– GMANews.TV
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Vatican Calls for New World Economic Order
Published October 24, 2011
| Associated Press
VATICAN CITY – The Vatican called Monday for radical reform of the world’s financial systems, including the creation of a global political authority to manage the economy.
A proposal by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace calls for a new world economic order based on ethics and the “achievement of a universal common good.” It follows Pope Benedict XVI’s 2009 economic encyclical that denounced a profit-at-all-cost mentality as responsible for the global financial meltdown.
The proposal acknowledges, however, that a “long road still needs to be traveled before arriving at the creation of a public authority with universal jurisdiction” and suggests the reform process begin with the United Nations as a point of reference.
Vatican pronouncements on the economy are meant to guide world leaders as well as the global church. United States Roman Catholic bishops, for example, have released a voter guide for the 2012 election that highlights social concerns such as ending poverty.
“It is an exercise of responsibility not only toward the current but above all toward future generations, so that hope for a better future and confidence in human dignity and capacity for good may never be extinguished,” the document said.
It highlights that reforms must assure that financial and monetary policies will not damage the weakest economies while also achieving fair distribution of the world’s wealth.
The proposal also called for a “minimum, shared body of rules to manage the global financial market,” lamenting the “overall abrogation of controls” on capital movements.
While past Vatican pronouncements have condemned unfettered capitalism, the latest criticized “an economic liberalism that spurns rules and controls.”
It also attacked “utilitarian thinking,” saying what is useful to the individual does not always favor the common good.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/10/24/vatican-calls-for-new-world-economic-order/
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http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/vatican-calls-for-a-global-political-authority/
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