Another sign of the times. Mark this one in your history books for studies on the Rise and Fall of the Great Warming Delusion. Yes, it’s another well written piece on the religious nature of the faith some have in our ability to change the weather. But this time there are sounds of the death knell…
Jo
The climate religion fades in spasms of anger and twitches of boredom
How do religions die? Generally they don’t, which probably explains why there’s so little literature on the subject. Zoroastrianism, for instance, lost many of its sacred texts when Alexander sacked Persepolis in 330 B.C., and most Zoroastrians converted to Islam over 1,000 years ago. Yet today old Zoroaster still counts as many as 210,000 followers, including 11,000 in the U.S. Christopher Hitchens might say you can’t kill what wasn’t there to begin with.
Consider the case of global warming, another system of doomsaying prophecy and faith in things unseen.
As with religion, it is presided over by a caste of spectacularly unattractive people pretending to an obscure form of knowledge that promises to make the seas retreat and the winds abate. As with religion, it comes with an elaborate list of virtues, vices and indulgences. As with religion, its claims are often non-falsifiable, hence the convenience of the term “climate change” when thermometers don’t oblige the expected trend lines. As with religion, it is harsh toward skeptics, heretics and other “deniers.” And as with religion, it is susceptible to the earthly temptations of money, power, politics, arrogance and deceit.
Yet a funny thing happened on the way to the climate apocalypse. Namely, the financial apocalypse….
Read the whole story: The Wall Street Journal, 29 November 2011
hat tip Benny Peiser GWPF
religions die of a thousand pricks, not a giant slash. It seems this to be the case with the religion of AGW. It is dying, but will not be extinct. From a thousand “inconsequential” cuts.
20
‘a thousand pricks’?
With positions 1, 2, 3 in the list being Mann, Trenberth and (Phil) Jones?
Sorry, very much English usage.
10
A good pun is good in any version of English. 😉
10
See “sock puppet” ( graphic in previous article
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How many were there? 76? 6?
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I might be a woman, but when I saw your comment I took it the wrong way!! 🙂
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The Wall Street Journal is being overly generous to the AGW cult.
This is not a religion – it is just a cult. Why compare it with other religions – why not compare it to one of the many cults out there?
Maybe climategate could be compared to the infamous Kool Aide incident? – after all, it was a poison prepared internally by members of teh AGW cult, after all.
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Mad Jack,
After careful consideration i would have to say it is both, let me explain.
On a global perspective this has all the hall marks of a religion as it has the following:
1) All great religions have an all powerful diety presiding over its domain, for AGW we have GIAI and all great religions need a bad guy in this case Big Oil.
2) All great religions have a prophet to spread the word, Islam had Mohammed and Isiah (Jesus) and Christianity had Jesus with a bunch of his mates. AGW has the prophet Saint Al of the Gore with a bunch of mates like Mr Gordon “we only have 50 days to save the planet” Brown, Kevin Rudd, Prince Charles, The King of Goethermia etc.
3) All great religions need a scripture to ensure the prophet and his mates all sing from the same page, now scriptures dont change much from one religion to the other for example the Koran and the Bible are almost identical in many ways and so to is the tome of pages contained in the IPCC reports. Scriptures need to contain the following
3.1) Detailed information of how things should be, for example temperature, sea levels, sea ice levels and CO2 levels should only fluctuated between a very small tolerance.
3.2) A comprehensive list of all possible humanly sins, for example Thou shalt not emit CO2, Thou shalt not impinge on the flow of rivers, thou shalt not play GIAI by attempting to split or fuse atoms, thou must only use the tools provided by GIAI etc.
3.3) A detailed description of punishments dealt out by GIAI should man commit a sin, complete with a detailed list of the warning signs of the “end of days” to come. In the AGW religion we have tipping points being the end of days and a multitude of “signs” that is signalling such an event (Arctic ice, glacier retreat, variations in bird migration, plagues of frogs and locusts, oceans turning to acid and boiling dry etc).
4) Replace the word heathen with the words Denier and Skeptic
5) Annual pilgrimages were you gather not round an altar but around a cracked crab buffet.
The author is correct when he states you cannot kill a religion, that is because it does not exist but in the minds of its believers.
Its a bit like the global war on terror, how do you fight a war against a tactic?
Cults
At the inner sanctum we have the scientists like Jones, Trenberth and Mann etc these guys are not part of the religion and by what i have read they are most likely not believers but they do form a cult. One cannot leave a cult without paying a price and sometimes the price you pay is your life which is why we have a whistleblower, too scared to speak up, too scared to leave so they do the only thing they can.
Hope this clears a few things up Mad Jack
Cheers
Crakar24
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Very well put crakar,
Of course, my rational brain was provoked into a rather irrational response (laughter) at point 2, above after reading about manbearpig being a prophet. Did you mean profit?
Well put though.
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Let us never forget that the politics of the “climate apocalypse” and the resultant misuse of public monies was a contributor to that financial apocalypse.
Time, money, government policies, social perceptions, the list goes on. Many things could have been directed towards issues that were real and in which concrete results for the better could have been obtained. Instead they were ignored as the economic world crumbled.
Popular culture has ensconced Marie Antoinette as saying “Let them eat cake” when the French population was starving for lack of bread. Similarly today the wealthy who are so separated from the rest of us tell us to “live responsibly” while lending their voices and status to supporting this drivel never once considering what the results of their “lofty ideals” will be for the rest of us.
I can’t say I expect a revolution (in science, popular perception, or otherwise) will result from this, rather a slow, quiet fading away as the guilty try to find other crises with which to focus public attention so that they (and their crimes) will be forgotten. I don’t expect there will be any guillotines this time around, the French Revolution showed us that corruption falls on both sides of the “political divide.” I would hope we have learned from that.
I would also hope (though I do not expect) that this time we have learned that the “elite” will support anything that gets them attention all the while having no intention to practice that which they preach. Fame and fortune does not imply intelligence nor does it imply honesty. Bono, McCartney, Gore, et. al. are prime examples of this.
Yet people today hang on their every word (as though by agreeing with them they are that much closer to being like them) just as the populations of history hung on every word of their spiritual leaders. Leaders who history has also shown often did not live the life they preached to their followers.
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What really riles me is the Main Stream Media that gives these guys a free ride. Withdraw your financial support, do not buy their publications and complain on their websites. Money talks and when those so called journalists see their positions unstable they will become more investigative and search for the real data and information.
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Good for you Mr. Stephens!
I for one hope it continues to fizzle into a warm puddle.They deserve a slow agonizing death for the damage they caused to science research.I despise them for what they have done to the world governments.Convincing them to waste $$$ by the truck load on irrelevant green “solutions” and that they promoted post normal science approach in the process.
Now that the latest climategate 2.0 has come out to open their wounds again.I hope it keeps them open and they SUFFER for it! God, I hate these guys for what they have done.And for the waste of their talent they squandered on research.
It would then free me of having to spend time running a skeptical climate forum.Geared to attacking the baloney from the AGW believing camp.I am tired of the bullcrap they promote.I am tired of the fight I have been in since the early 1990’s.The forum is no longer getting much attention from me.There are a few members still plugging away on it.Derek has been given more moderation control over it.It will stay up and running.But not much from me anymore.I am tired of dealing with too many people who are too damn lazy and stupidly ignorant on the climate issues.
I am planning one a new climate forum,to be opened in January.The forum will focus on the cooling trend that has already been ongoing for a few thousand years.No more political discussions on the AGW crap.No more conspiracies and no more arguments over whether CO2 is a greenhouse gas or not.
I want to LEARN and to enjoy studying about the climate again.That is what I want to do.
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Another sign of this, the Tele today has both an excoriation of the latest Climate Commission ‘we’re all going to fry’ report AND an editorial saying turf the carbon tax.
They’re only doing this because they’re reflecting the views of their readers, who’ve had it with this alarmism up to their necks.
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update from yesterday:
30 Nov: Bundaberg NewsMail: Emily Prain: Another blow for seafood industry
BUNDABERG fishermen are outraged over the release of draft plans for the proposed Coral Sea Commonwealth Marine Reserve, fearing it will spell the demise of the local seafood industry.
The 989,842sq m reserve, which would be the largest marine park in the world, extends from Ashmore Reef in far north Queensland down to waters east of Bundaberg.
The proposed Coral Sea marine reserve would be completely off limits to trawler boats and longliners, which commercial fisherman Paul Grunske says will hurt the local seafood industry.
“It’s just another kick in the ribs for the seafood industry,” he said.
“It’ll mean consumers will be restrained in their ability to obtain locally sourced seafood.”…
“The slack will be taken up by inferior imports in countries that have a progressive fisheries policy,” Mr Grunske said…
Federal Member for Hinkler Paul Neville said he was alarmed by the speedy release of the draft plan by Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke on Friday.
“I wasn’t expecting this before Christmas,” he said.
“There is only so much you can ask an industry to endure before you break its back.”
Mr Neville said Bundaberg and Hervey Bay once had about 80 fishing trawlers each.
“The figure is now well under 30,” he said.
A public information session will be held in Hervey Bay over the coming weeks, before the consultation period closes on February 24 next year.
http://www.news-mail.com.au/story/2011/11/30/another-blow-for-seafood-industry/
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If Catastrophic Global Climate Change dies what will we all do for fun?
Nuts!
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How about a magnetic pole reversal:-
http://www.polereversal.com/index.php?Itemid=1&id=22&option=com_content&task=view
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we could go back to worrying about holes in the ozone layer… the ones caused by things like fly spray!!
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Hi Roy,
Maybe we could bring forward another scientific catastrophe that is waiting in the wings.
The collapse of the sun is an ideal topic with the resultant engulfing of the planets by the exploding mass. We are all doomed. It is real. Astrophysicist know it’s real.
It is due in about another 1 billion years but what if, just imagine if someone found that this was due in 50 years??
Problem solved, catastrophe in progress.
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29 Nov: UK Register: Richard Chirgwin: Down under climate messages get more strident
Southern ocean warming worries scientists, heatwaves terrify government
Australia’s government has warned that rising global temperatures already represent a health risk – one that’s going to get worse as the country records more heatwave days.
Saying that “climate change must be considered a health priority”, the federal government’s Climate Commission believes the increase in hot days over the last 50 years has already led to an increase in heat-related deaths…
According to a report in Scientific American, another worrying health impact can be seen in 2011’s sudden rise in the fatal Hendra virus, which spreads from bats to humans via horses…
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/29/climate_messages_more_strident/
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From Pats links
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=climate-change-boosts-lethal-hendra-virus
Does someone send out an email to the warmbots to crank out the booga booga? Or is it more like the plot from “Telefon”.
Somewhere in amongst the sordid shit supplied by Pat they talk about the mystical way in which viruses jump species
Nothing mysterious here except the stupidity or blatant lies of the journo and the dumbness of the warbots that believe.
The fact is a failed polio vaccine brought aids to humans………..did i really say that out loud?
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Jo. Just to remind you and fellow-posters that IEKE have just had their 2011 conference in Munich on Nov.25/26. These are held to highlight the other side of the AGW debate and coincide with the annual UN “climate” talkfests.
The excellent Prof Vincent Courtillot video you featured some time ago came from the 2010 conference and if anyone hasn’t seen the full Prof Robert Carter presentation, that is in the same series and is also excellent. Both videos would be ideal to recommend to anyone asking where they can access clear easily understood info raised by the AGW issue.
The Svensmark video and many others from 2011 when available should prove very interesting.
Some pertinent comments on the current situation and state of public thinking in Germany are at
http://notrickszone/2011/11/28/cfact-reports-on-4th-international-climate-conference-in-munich/
Have a look at the 129 “gates”, which include many new ones listed by P.Gosselin, while you’re there! It’s a very informative site and a valuable resource for sceptics.
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Great article, but I dont think its over yet.
Climate Change is a state sponsored religion – so it wont go away while the state is still sponsoring it. There are still thousands of paid acolytes out there, and plenty more circling to get their hands on the manna the religion provides. They still talk in millions and billions – so they are not going to fade away without a fight. It is only when governments see it more as a liability to their electoral success than a benefit that they will start to squeeze off the cash flow – and the religion will collapse to only a hand-full who have over-invested in the whole scam. Most journalists will jump ship as soon as it starts to tilt and find a new crusade, because they are whores to any story. But then think of the Pilgers and the Adams, still cant let go of the last failed religion. However, because so much money and face is involved, it is more likely to morph into a new religion currently on the fringe of climate change that still has some credibility as a threat – Save the planet from catastrophic weather events, threatened biodiversity blah blah blah – in order to keep at least some of the money flowing into the inflated bureaucracies. Because that is really the key question. Not “How does a religion die?”, but “How does a bureaucracy die”?
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IIGCC and other investors are talking in trillions! 19/10/11
World’s Largest Investors. In a joint statement the group of 285 investors representing $20trillion in assets, stressed the urgent need for policy action which stimulates private sector investment into climate change solutions,creates jobs, and is essential for ensuring the long-term sustainability and stability of the world economic system.
http://www.iigcc.org_data/assets/pdf_file0019/15283/2011-Global-Investor-Statement-Press-Release.pdf
You are so right AC. They are not going to fade away without a fight and unfortunately, as is obvious, they have vast financial resources to provide weaponry (as in ongoing grants, bribery and corruption of politicians and dictators, compliant scientists willing to sacrifice their integrity, and anyone else necessary to achieve their financial aims!
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Hi AC
A good post. Truth does not necessarily win out unless it is made to.
The steps being taken to expose the CAGW fraud are based in science but this is more than science, it is brainwashing of great sophistication and depth.
When I try to think how Climate Change Hysteria or Global Warming can be put down and finally laid to rest I feel strangely queasy.
Maybe it’s the image of the Alien movie with the beast growing inside, it is evocative of the CAGW indoctrination.
All school kids are exposed to the “ethics” of “doing the right thing by the planet” with some token science to try to justify it.
Removing or resisting the Alien seems impossible.
A definitive end to the Global Waring claims is necessary because at the moment the beast just keeps morphing into a slightly different problem, but still CAGW from MM CO2.
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I may have to go for the bucket in a minute, as WIN is about to interview Tim Flannery for the latest scares!
10
See my post (19) below – if Flannery talks about the increased deaths from heat-related causes, you may need that bucket.
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29 Nov: Financial Post: Reuters: Carbon offset firms feel heat of price crash
Nina Chestney & Jeff Coelho
Last week, the price of these certified emissions reductions (CERs) credits fell by 20% to below 5 euros ($6.68) per tonne…
CERs have lost over half their value this year as concerns mount over their role in a future global climate treaty, and as falling industrial production makes pollution targets easy to meet. Exacerbating this, a record number of CERs was issued to the market this year.
Trading Emissions’ average acquisition price for the CERs in its portfolio was 6.71 euros, while Camco paid 8.60, company statements show. Traders say project developers would incur a loss if they sell at a price below 6 euros per CER.
“CERs are becoming like Greek bonds,” said Laurent Segalen at London-based advisory firm Segalen Environment Partners…
Both Trading Emissions and Camco said they have enough cash to ride out the current carbon price crash.
“Trading Emissions has sufficient capital to meet its carbon obligations in any carbon price environment,” Simon Shaw, the firm’s investment adviser, told Reuters.
In spite of low carbon prices, the company said it will continue to pursue buyers for both its carbon and private equity portfolios, declining to comment on bidders.
Trading Emissions reported a cash balance of 66 million pounds for the year ending in June 2011, down 28% from the previous year.
Last month, the firm suspended its dividend given the continued CER drop and four board members left.
Earlier this year, it was forced to scrap plans to sell its carbon portfolio, which should have given shareholders a return of 50 pence per share, after low carbon prices made it difficult to find buyers willing to pay what the firm wanted…
Shares in Trading Emissions were at just under 35 pence on Tuesday, down 65 percent since floating on London’s Alternative Investment Market in April 2005, shaving 44 million pounds off its market capitalisation of 135 million when the business was floated in 2005.
Camco closed at a 33-month low of 7.75 pence on Monday, 88% below the level it floated in April 2006, cutting its market cap to some 15 million pounds from 83 million in 2006…
The state of some project developers’ finances is a reversal of fortune.
In 2009, JP Morgan beat off stiff competition to buy Ecosecurities for 123 million pounds, while in 2010 Barclays Capital bought Swedish firm Tricorona in a deal that valued the company at $159-million…
Last month, Noble Group’s chief executive resigned after a write-down of the firm’s U.N. carbon portfolio plunged it into a $17 million loss in the third quarter, its first quarterly loss for over a decade.
The firm did not reveal how much its CER portfolio lost, but Bank of America Merrill Lynch estimated it at $80-100 million.
Meanwhile, UK-based Climate Change Capital, which operates a fund investing in CERs, said it has had discussions about “strategic partnerships” to allow it to raise new capital, but added it was nothing to do with current carbon prices.
http://business.financialpost.com/2011/11/29/carbon-offset-firms-feel-heat-of-price-crash/
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Whitehouse criticises UK Times and Guardian for swallowing this Durban-timed release by WMO, but this nonsense was picked up the entire MSM worldwide:
29 Nov: GWPF: David Whitehouse: More Met Office Spin About Annual Temperatures (In Time for Durban)
http://www.thegwpf.org/the-observatory/4449-more-met-office-spin-about-annual-temperatures-in-time-for-durban.html
google grouping I:
UN Climate Group Releases Weather Data
Wall Street Journal – Devon Maylie – 6 hours ago
While the temperature was down from 2010, the WMO said it was higher than previous La Nina years. La Nina typically has a cooling influence on temperatures. …
UN: World temperatures maintain the heat of global warming USA Today
Countries at odds over raising, managing billions of dollars to … Washington Post
UN weather office affirms Earth’s long-term warming trend … CanadianBusiness.com
all 2914 news articles »
google grouping 2:
WMO: 2011 one of hottest years on record
Reuters India – Jon Herskovitz – Tom Miles – 1 hour ago
“Our science is solid and it proves unequivocally that the world is warming and that this warming is due to human activities,” WMO Deputy Secretary-General …
A huge swathe of East Africa has seen severe drought for several years BBC News
World heading for 10th hottest year despite La Nina Sydney Morning Herald
Past decade ties for world’s hottest Herald Sun
News24
all 187 news articles »
now that’s what i call DURBAN PROPAGANDA…
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I cant keep up with all these posts 🙂
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On the WSJ article here’s Don Surber. I like the graphic.
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29 Nov: Reuters: Jeff Coelho: United Nations CO2 scheme to take backseat in climate-aid drive
The U.N.’s carbon offset scheme will play only a small role in the developed world’s pledge to raise $100 billion in annual climate aid for developing nations by 2020, and analysts say that is driving the need for new sources of funding…
Yet new investment in it has fallen by 80 percent since 2008 to $1.5 billion in 2010, with even less expected this year.
“I fear that will be smaller again (in 2011),” said Ben Caldecott, head of European policy at Climate Change Capital, a London-based investment management and advisory group….
Investment has plunged because of the CDM’s uncertain future and waning demand for carbon credits. CDM prices hit record lows last week…
***(Caldecott) If carbon markets are to play a significant role in curbing global warming, carbon prices will need to be much higher … and backed by regulation to ensure a steady flow of private and public funding in low-carbon technologies.”…
Analysts say alternative ways to help achieve the financing goal include carbon taxes, subsidies for renewable energy, guaranteed grants and climate bonds.
Companies that are heavily invested in the CDM market, such as Climate Change Capital, Camco International and others have been diversifying away from the offset market.
“Most people aren’t going to make a multi-hundred million dollar investment decision on the back of a few CERs where the mechanisms are uncertain,” Geoff Sinclair, head of carbon finance and trading at Standard Bank, told Reuters…
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/29/us-carbon-offset-idUSTRE7AS1VD20111129
29 Nov: AFP: Shipping sector may accept price on CO2 emissions
The ICS, which accounts for more than 80 percent of the world’s merchant fleet, prefers a straightforward levy but the WWF could accept other options, she said.
Chatterjee described the accord as a breakthrough.
Failing to factor in the cost of fossil-fuel pollution from transport was “a subsidy… an enormous failure,” she told AFP.
The announcement was made on the second day of talks in Durban under the 194-nation UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)…
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jIK186djlhzanUJUK-W7GgdYwJVw?docId=CNG.51fd675c802c00ccf6a4fb87f46cd12d.871
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The latest piece of alarmist garbage rears its ugly head at the SMH:
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/deaths-from-heatwaves-to-rise-without-emission-cuts-20111129-1o53h.html
Yes, heat-related death tolls will rise by end of century! OMG run around in circles, arms waving in air, paper bag on head… panic!!11!1!one.
So what are they predicting exactly? Well they say:
That’s horrific yes? But wait a sec says Bulldust… aren’t populations increasing? Wouldn’t deaths per thousand or million of population be a better measure? So let’s take a measured look at it shall we?
All the necessary tools are readily available at the ABS. The population in 1990 can be retrieved from their nifty historical population pyramid tool (almost as exciting as it sounds!):
http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/4a256353001af3ed4b2562bb00121564/ca0b3137794a766bca256f6c0078cb0b!OpenDocument
If we take the way-back machine dial to 1990, we find Australia’s population was 17,065,128. Therefore the deaths per thousand population due to heat-related causes was:
Now we have to wind the clock forward to the end of the century, again with the help of ABS projections:
http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/0E09CCC14E4C94F6CA2574B9001626FE/$File/32220_2006%20to%202101.pdf
We have a choice of three population projections: series A = 62.2 million by 2101, Series B = 44.7 million by 2101, and Series C = 33.7 million by 2101. As you can see, the ABS has a wide range of projections, reflecting that even something as predictable as population growth is difficult to nail down (unlike predicting future average global temperatures, which is obviously trivial stuff). So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt, eh? We’ll take the lowest number of the lot:
I would like out point out that I wrote this on the fly, and had no idea what the final result was going to be, but my BS meter was maxxed out when I read the original article.
So the conclusion? Even assuming the lowest possible growth rate for Australia and the highest projected increase in heat-related deaths we will see less heat–related deaths per head of population by the end of the century. All of this completely ignores the changes in technology that will occur in the next couple decades, let alone the next 90 years… This is retarded research and reporting… no other way to describe it.
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Apparently climate change is going to cause more mental illness as well:
http://climatecommission.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/111129_FINAL-FOR-WEB.pdf
What is interesting is that the use UHI in the document on p12 to explain heat deaths will be greater in cities… but apparently, as we all know, it doesn’t affect the thermometers based in those cities.
I can’t force myself to read more of the claptrap, but I am sure Jo can have an absolute field day with it if she has the time.
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I got as far as the disclaimer on page 2 and gave up
“IMPORTANT NOTICE – PLEASE READ
This document is produced for general information only and does not represent a statement
of the policy of the Commonwealth “of Australia. While reasonable efforts have been made to
ensure the accuracy, completeness and reliability of the material contained in this document,
the Commonwealth of Australia and all persons acting for the Commonwealth preparing this
report accept no liability for the accuracy of or inferences from the material contained in this
publication, or for any action as a result of any person’s or group’s interpretations, deductions,
conclusions or actions in relying on this material.”
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I could not resist and read on, page 14 and 15 talks about UHI and claims it can be up to 1 to 3 C hotter in day light hours and up to 12C at night.
Lets just look at the the day time and call it 1C, now take 1C from all the temp data sets and how much climate shift do we have left caused by CO2.
About now JB and his ilk are probably feeling rather used oh and a little bit stupid.
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Mental illness meaning more people become mentally retarded and don’t learn to think for themselves ergo they believe the lies. 😀
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Yes, mental illness trying to deal with the porkies who believe in this CRAP
10
great mate!! 180K per year to produce crap. Flannery has no shame.
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You really wonder how many person-hours (see? I can be politically correct too) it took to make this report? It took me 10 mins to shoot a friggin big hole in one of the central headline statistics…
Sad really, they are making this too easy.
10
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-30/fresh-warning-about-health-affects-of-climate/3703580
3:25 into the “look at me, look at me” im very important talk fest
Watch Mr Panicsonic man face palm the journo when faced with any accusation of failed predictions. Watch how he is asked a direct question about Adeliade running out of water and see if he not only adressess the question but actually answers it.
To all the silent warmbots out there HE IS YOUR REPRESENTATIVE IN THIS SCAM, WAKE THE F**&^%K UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well said bulldust!
But don’t worry, the poor starving masses of the world can rest in peace knowing that the developed world is directing resources from their mouths to prevent a possible 0.2374 deaths per thousand by 2101 based on flawed models tweaked by a select few people with many more rent seekers.
They’re all resting so peacefully knowing that.
10
Bulldust, they did that on purpose. That way they’re covered (we predicted that) either way……..
10
If CAGW is a religion, then I’m glad its dead. Maybe now we can just focus on the practical problems associated with CO2 emissions and global warming.
10
You mean those practical issues such that CO2 is not a problem and it isn’t causing any warming, would those be the practical issues you refer to or are you still reciting the mantra of the faithful?
10
——————————————————————————–
True JB there is a lot of practical problems with the link between co2 emissions and climate shift i look forward to engaging with you and your new and refreshing approach in future debates.
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The best empirical evidence we have to date are satellite atmospheric temperatures, radiosonde balloons and ocean temperatures from ARGO buoys. These indicate that sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 concentrations is very low. Probably less than 0.3 degrees. So there are no problems with global warming or CO2 emissions. Even the IPCC is in survival mode claiming that the effects of AGW maybe far less than natural variation.
The only real climate problem we may realistic be facing is that of global cooling. We have seen the impact of recent harsh winters in the northern hemisphere on crop production, transport and infrastructure. NASA predicted earlier in the decade that solar cycle 24 would be far stronger than SC23. They were wrong. Those using the baracentric model of solar cycle control predicted that SC24 would be weak and SC25 would be weaker. Unfortunately is appears the latter group were correct. We may be facing a Dalton, or worse a Maunder style grand solar minimum around 2035. The oceanic lag period for the slow start to SC24 is up and the cooling has begun, but the climate scientists have already cried Wolf! too many times. The damage you and your fellow travellers have wrought on politics, economics and education is extreme, but the destroying trust in science could yet top it all.
10
JB. You’re nearly there. Why not take that small extra step to join us and say “Maybe now we can just focus on the practical problems associated with” natural disasters we know will continue to occur no matter what the cause, and also try and combat global poverty by providing access for all to affordable and available energy, better living conditions, clean water, sanitation, and basic medical care.
——————————————————————————–
10
Our theory on the heavens,
hallowed be our fame,
To our dominion’s fund,
Your money will be come,
Providng we can hide the decline.
Give us this day an upward trend.
And forgive us the wet patches
as we don’t forgive those who mention the cold bits
And lead us not to falsifying
but deliver us from scrutiny
For ours is the hockey stick, the polar bear and the Oscar
For ever and ever. M.Mann.
10
a link to watts, it show how the team tried to screw over de freitas as editor of CR, then Otto Kinne investigates and finds nothing so now they try and screw him over.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/29/getting-the-right-kind-of-people-onboard/
I used to feel sorry for JB/Tristan etc but not anymore as each day passes that these guys still refuse to accept the obvious shown in the CG affair my contempt for them grows.
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John Brookes
Has it occurred to you that there might a possibility, no matter how slight, that CO2 global warming might be false? If not then your excessive faith that it is a bit of a worry, for an inability to discern fiction from fact usually ends up sadly.
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Oh, ho ho ho!
While we’re on ‘fizzle’, and I hope you’ll all forgive me for changing the subject, (but only slightly) I see that our erstwhile Government has, er, started furiously backpedalling on Carbon Capture and Sequestration, mentioning that the technology has a long way to go to be, er, as Wayne Swan so wonderfully puts it, ‘proved up’.
Fancy that! Whodathunkit?
An admission that a technology may not really be worth throwing
taxpayerGovernment money at.That being the case, it now makes new technology coal fired power considerably cheaper again, considering this theoretical dream cost almost 40% of the total cost over the life of a New coal fired power plant and consumed 35% of the power generated by the plant.
Damn! Where’s Doctor Smith when I need to gloat?For those who want some info on just why this dream will never work, read this Post, sorry, again it’s one of mine.
Clean Coal Hole In The Ground – Just Throw In Money
Long story short, and this is just for one plant.
6 million tons of coal burned each year.
17 million tons of CO2 emitted each year.
50 year life expectancy of plant, hence 850 million tons of CO2.
The, er, hole in the ground now needs to be able to hold that 850 million tons forever without leaking back to the surface.
It has to be separated from the exhaust, cooled to a liquid, pumped to the hole, and then injected, changing back to a gas as it goes further into the Earth, all this at the same rate it is being emitted, and all this just for ONE coal fired Plant.
That’s pumping it into the ground at the rate of around 150 gallons a second.
Ever pumped petrol into your car. Around 4 gallons a minute.
See now why CCS is just a futile dream.
Labor spent Millions on this.
Tony.
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Tony 3 YEARS GO i watched a program where the boss of the largest coal fired power company in US stated that CCS would not be viable in his childrens, childrens, childrens lifetime.
Once again “we must act so as not to be left behind”
Oh my giddy aunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CCS is going to have an even harder task getting off (or under) the ground in Europe where it certainly doesn’t have Green support!
Google ‘carbon sequestration in Germany’ and have a look at the two following articles for starters:
06/30/2008
Pumping Carbon Beneath the Earth
German Test Facility to Start CO2 Sequestration
02/16/2011
Pumping Gas Underground
Greenpeace Blasts Berlin for Secrecy on Carbon Storage
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They tried it in the US but it failed, they pumped the stuff into an old oil reserve which was perfect for CCS, got the last remaining dregs of oil out and capped it………………waited for 5 minutes and walked away.
A few weeks later all the co2 was bubbling up into the dams and coming straight out of the ground, just another pipe dream feed to the warmbots to keep them in line.
Which reminds me where are they all today?
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just read criticisms in the Indian press about how the EU, one of very few left wanting to extend Kyoto, is attemping to change the Bali roadmap, which exempts developing countries from committing to reducing emissions. China and others are on to us. the EU/UN are not going to be allowed to have all the Financial Instruments, the Aviation Taxes, the Shipping Taxes, etc if the poorer countries have to destroy their economies too.
READ ALL as Financial Times isn’t keen on cutting and pasting their articles:
29 Nov: UK Financial Times: Divisions deepen at UN talks on climate
By Pilita Clark in Durban
“We think the EU is just shifting the goalposts from one place to another and it’s a departure from what we understand the Bali balanced package to be,” Mr Su (Beijing’s lead negotiator, Su Wei) said…
In a further sign of the antagonistic mood at the summit, Mr Su said the EU’s contentious move to charge international airlines for their carbon emissions from January had become a factor in the discussions in Durban, though he did not elaborate on precisely what this might mean.
And he repeated earlier threats by the large emerging economies of China, Brazil, India and South Africa that the UN-backed carbon offset programme created under the Kyoto protocol – popular with companies in developed countries as it makes it easier for them to meet carbon emissions targets – cannot continue if there is no second phase of the Kyoto pact…
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b3538f46-1aa8-11e1-bc34-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1f9y8uSGY
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Play spot-the-backpeddle with Tim Flannery.
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Err, that’d be backpedal. Pardon the illiteracy.
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Oh, Tom,
I dunno!
Considering what Professor Tim has been saying all along, peddle might indeed have been the correct word!
Tony.
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Tom
That’s probably what people call a Freudian slip.
He is peddling, peddling unbelievable rubbish.
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Rather refreshing that the slimy Tim Flannery didn’t quite have the question-free run he usually expects and gets from the ABC. Signs of a slight chink in the bias? And I’m sure everyone feels much better with his smiling disclaimer (the get-out clause) that “of course these are projections, not predictions”! Slippery as an eel and cunning as a sh–house rat are two descriptive phrases which spring to mind and Gillard is giving him $3000 a week of our money to spout this B….S! Sheeeeeesh!
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Update from 23/9/11
Germany’s upper house of parliament, the Bundesrat, has knocked down a proposal to start storing the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide underground in a bid to reduce emissions.
The rejection of the draft law for using carbon capture and storage methods will be a blow to Angela Merkel’s government which was hoping to use the technology of compressing carbon dioxide in underground storage facilities.
http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20110923-3778.html
A German Comment: If Germany can’t sequester CO2, and they still want to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, what will they do? It looks like the plan right now is to continue to import nuclear generated power from France. During the month of August, France exported 736 gigawatt-hours of electricity to Germany.
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How can anyone be so stupid?
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Hahaha – if she only knew how dangerous those are, compressed gasses. High pressure industrial tanks are never tested with compressed air – always with compressed water. If there is a blowout, compressed air will rip the failed welds like zippers and blow metal all over the place, like an explosion. Anyone nearby is a goner. Water, being almost incompressible, just burps, then leaks a little water.
Compressed CO2 in underground storage? I wouldn’t want to be within miles of it as they pump it in.
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Like in the movie “The Graduate,” I have just one word for you and the Germans:
THORIUM
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pat No.7
I really can’t see how such a large area can be patrolled adequately. I’m sure Asian, perhaps even Chinese, fishing boats will fish well inside the area. It is legal for it to be declared national park but,to me, it seems well outside what are considered territorial waters and seems to include a lot of International waters. Even if all our Navy was sent out I doubt it could stop intruders and may even start an international ‘incident’ if it tried.
Also, there is a big spat going on about diseased fish in Gladstone Harbour. It is being dredged to make way for a gas terminal. Fishermen, Greens, conservationists blame the dredging despite repeated government tests showing a common parasite is causing the fish problem. What I can’t understand is why trawlers would be fishing in the very heavily industrial port of Gladstone at all. Shouldn’t these bold, brave fishermen be well out to sea by hundreds of kms braving the elements for fresh ocean fish? That way they shouldn’t be catching diseased fish.
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A good article thrashing Gillard’s carbon cartharsis is over at Quadrant today. Follow the link, then follow the money:
Rockefeller. I needn’t have read any further. Enn double YOU OWE!
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Religion is an integral part of climate science research as far as Mike Hulme is concerned. In 2002 he wrote in response to a request from the BBC to appear on Songs of Praise, “I am happy to talk, although I am not really sure what you are after. My work is as Director of the national centre for climate change research, a job which requires me to translate my Christian belief about stewardship of God’s planet into research and action.”
http://www.ecowho.com/foia.php?file=0999.txt&search=belief
Mike is also involved in Eco-Congregations, see 0909, where he states, “If people are interested in following up on Eco-congregations I have 1-2 sheets already
about this and have also talked with the co-ordinator of the project (David Pickering I
think) – Eco-congregations also backed the Oxford Declaration on Global Warming.
I would be happy to talk further with anyone about whether or not there is an initiative
here Trinity might take.”
http://www.ecowho.com/foia.php?file=0909.txt&search=.Alan+Strange+
“Eco-Congregation developed from a partnership between the Government funded environmental charity ENCAMS (which runs the Keep Britain Tidy Campaign and the Going for Green brand) and the Environmental Issues Network of Churches Together in Britain and Ireland. It aims to encourage churches to consider environmental issues within a Christian context and enable local churches to make positive contributions in their life and mission.”
http://ew.ecocongregation.org/
They wrote this before Copenhagen: “In the run-up to the monumentally important Copenhagen climate change negotiations, it’s imperative that as many churches as possible mobilise and engage on climate change issues and recognise the important role they can play as community leaders on this issue. ”
http://ew.ecocongregation.org/resources/module6
Now there’s nothing wrong with decent, honest religious people, although I’m not religious, and any sensible person believes in taking care of our environment, but AGW activism in the form of Christianity is going too far.
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[coming into this a bit late…]
It’s amazing that this hadn’t occurred to me before. The religious tone of AGW has been brought up many times, but this aspect really applies…
No, we are not deniers. We are skeptics. As in Doubting Thomases.
As in people who don’t take a Pope’s word for anything, no matter how infallible he is. As in “Put up or shut up.” It used to be what science was all about.
I am a born Missourian. Missouri is known as “The Show Me State.” Also as in “Put up or shut up.”
We skeptics ALL are the people who say, “Put up or shut up.”
And they – the true believers who don’t need to touch a wound in order to “believe” – cry about it, just like a little old lady lighting a candle doesn’t understand why there are people who don’t follow the Pope. Phil Jones is that little old lady, meek and mild – until you get her on her own turf, and then see how mean and vicious she can be. Yes: She, Phil Jones, the little old lady, praying to her God that global warming will hurry up and cause a bunch of disasters. Michael Mann is Chief Rabbi of the Sanhedrin, mean and vicious by nature, needing to put someone – especially someone who throws the money changers out of the Temple and threaten his income – on a cross to cover up the fact that he has sold his soul to the devil.
And we have all run into believers (which is most of the public, it used to seem – but not so much anymore).
“Why would the priests lie to us?”
“Should we falsify them before God because they jet around the world to exotic places on our behalf, seeking to appease the weather gods?”
“Don’t you, too, believe in the Precautionary Principle, which is akin to giving alms to the poor or dropping a farthing into the basket on Sunday?”
“If not, you are apostates!”
And if The Sanhedrin had their way, would we all not for our heresy be burned at the stake or put on a cross?
But call me Doubting Thomas…
Call us all Doubting Thomas.
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Speaking of Michael Mann…
There are those who go into science to be scientists.
Then there are those who make it a career choice, their way to fame and fortune. And woe unto any who would stand in such a person’s way.
It is clear from the emails – CG1.0 to some extent, but CG2.0 even more so – that no one dared to stand in Mann’s way. Now that Mann can see who “stabbed him in the back” in ‘private’ emails, it will be interesting to see down the road what happens to them.
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