BREAKING: As Jeff ID says, “The Empire Strikes Back”
Industrial wall in Donetsk, Ukraine. Photo: Борис У.
UPDATED: See Washington Examiner story below.
Tallbloke’s computers were confiscated by police today, allegedly in the search for the climategate leaker. But it’s obvious that there won’t be any clues left on Tallbloke’s computer (it would have no record of comments dropped onto wordpress.com, a US service). See Watts Up.
The point of this is not to catch the leaker, it’s to intimidate bloggers.
Jeff ID writes: Tallbloke a fellow recipient blog of the climategate emails, and linked on the right, was raided today in what seems to be a coordinated effort by Metropolitan Police, the Norfolk Constabulary and the Computer Crime division and the U.S. Department of Justice Criminal Division. His home was raided and computers were taken for ‘examination’.
They don’t really want to catch the leaker, because a whistleblower is protected by UK legislation. The proof that this is aimed at intimidating bloggers rather than catching the climategate leaker is the coordinated and pointless US dept of Justice action through wordpress. To wit:
Both Tallbloke and JeffID received “the following notification from the U.S. Department of Justice Criminal Division and forwarded by Ryan at WordPress. ClimateAudit is also mentioned yet I’m not certain that Steve Received notice. It seems that the larger paid blogs may not have received any notice. On pdf –WordPress Preservation Request-1“
The notification apparently asks them not to make the information public or else... they may terminate their wordpress account.
This has nothing at all to do with finding a hypothetical hacker.
How would anyone feel knowing that agents may turn up at their home, take all their computers, phones, routers and records, and have a copy of all their emails, their tax records, letters to friends, music, photos, information about family and friends, and their passwords?
The inconvenience of living without their computer, software and everything else would cost potentially thousands but worse, for someone who values their privacy, just the knowledge that so much personal information was in the hands of strangers would be unsettling.
Furthermore, there’s the risk that a single malicious person in the government could “leak” the emails, photos, or letters, medical records and spread them on the internet. These are home offices, so everything is on the computer. It would only take one agent — someone thinking it was “only fair” to release all that information. There’s a perverse logic that though the climategate leaker carefully removed personal emails, and was releasing work related information from a work account, it was somehow “just” to release irrelevant personal information from the accounts of volunteers.
If the establishment was really in the mood to send a signal that blogging is a risky business, what’s next — Nixon style tax audits?
Now, more than ever, all the people that value their freedom need to stick together. Whistleblowers and radio personalities need blogger back up, big bloggers need small bloggers, every blogger needs commenter and emailer support, with letters to editors and friends. Every link in the chain helps. The establishment need to know that we will not be intimidated, there are many of us, and the more they push, the more we will tell the world.
Spread the information on the net while we still can
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Steve McIntyre’s initial reaction.
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Comments:
They took away a DSL router? That would only be done by “experts” to frustrate access to the Internet.
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Nick says:
This raid is practice and a fishing exercise I’m guessing.
How many in the raid? 8-10 Your joking?! For a computer geek with, supposedly, sources to some more nerds email’s? Nup, doesn’t work for me. And to trace the traffic to and from a Russian server? You have to get hold of that Russian server. Good luck with that. 🙂
————————————
Jeff Id said
Read the letter to wordpress above. WordPress is a totally unconcerned recipient of 100% of the data and the police haven’t received it yet. Just why would they want our computers if ALL of the data they seek is available from wordpress.
You might say there is something missing in the WordPress record, but the only things missing would be email discussions with the evil dr. FOIA. Of course had I been having discussions with them/he/she, I would have requested a few email threads be completed.
Why are they investigating the bloggers on the fraud rather than the fraud itself? – no I don’t use that word very often.
—————–
H/t to Steve, Ian, Dan, Oliver, Pat, Cassandra and others.
———————————————————
UPDATE #1
Obama’s Justice Department joins Britain’s ‘Climategate’ leaker manhunt
OpEd Contributor
I have seen apparent proof that the United States Department of Justice (DOJ), Criminal Division, is working with United Kingdom police to pursue the leaker of the 2009 and 2011 “Climategate” emails.
I have learned that last week DOJ sent a search-and-seizure letter to the host of three climate-change “skeptic” blogs. Last night, UK police raided a blogger’s home and removed computers and equipment.
The DOJ attorney sending the preservation letters, as it happens in this small world, a graduate of the University of Virginia (UVA). And UVA is also the subject of litigation a group I am associated with, the American Tradition Institute (ATI), that has filed suit on behalf of Virginia taxpayers seeking Climategate-related emails the school holds.
So far UVA has spent upwards of $1 million fighting Cuccinelli’s request, and school officials continue to fight us in court every step of the way.
Clearly, this is no small matter in the quarters insisting that this taxpayer-financed information never see the light of day. Even the criminal legal apparatus of the U.S. and UK must be invoked against this threat, apparently.
To review: The UK police and the US DOJ, Criminal Division, are pursuing a leaker of public records subject to one or more FOIA, records that were unlawfully withheld under those laws, which leaks indicate apparent civil violations (tortious interference by seeking dismissal of certain “skeptics”), and raising reasonable questions of fraud against taxpayers.
Read the whole story at the Washington Examiner
NEWS Tonight there are reports of last ditch efforts to save the crooks.
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2011/12/14/crackdown-shooting-in-the-dark/#comment-62756
http://climateaudit.org/2011/12/14/police-raid-on-tall-bloke/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/14/uk-police-seize-computers-of-skeptic-in-england/
Earlier today NASA belatedly started asking questions, after . . .
Giving $1.4 M to Washington University to confirm or deny reports that silicon carbide (SiC) grains in the Murchison meteorite are “fall-out” particles from the supernova explosion that made our elements.
That question was answered 15 years ago by Kuroda and Myers using data from Washington University, but NASA, the US NAS, the UK’s RS, and the UN’s IPCC apparently didn’t want anyone to know that Earth’s heat source – the Sun – is not stable as they claimed, but the violently unstable remains of a supernova that gave birth to the Solar Syatem five billion (5 Gyr) ago.
Here’s the rest of the story with links to data and observations:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/NASA_finally_asks.pdf
With deep regrets,
Oliver K. Manuel
http://myprofile.cos.com/manuelo09
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Very odd. I put this comment at CA:
It would seem that the action is not from England but from the US and England is just providing the muscle on the ground.
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I encourage everyone – absolutely everyone – to remain calm as world order and the AGW scam collapse, trusting that the Universe is in good hands:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/Fear_Not.pdf
Remember Gandhi defeated the British Empire, . . .
a.) Not by having more funds or weapons, but . . .
b.) By doing what is right, and
c.) Turning the results over to Fate!
World leaders and leaders of the scientific community are as scared today as leaders of the British Empire were when they met an opponent that would not accept their arrogant, false view of reality. That is where we are today with the AGW story.
If the Sun sneezes, farts or belches, world leaders are all toast too. Today NASA is helping to get out that message:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-curiosity-solar-storm.html
Today all is well
Oliver K Manuel
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How can UK citizen be charged under US law on British soil..Well when thers a World Govt in power thats when. The Gestapo (UK police) is at it again. Listen to this interview by Jones of an ex East German soldier living in the USA very relavent here…
http://www.prisonplanet.com/gunter-spens-military-must-refuse-unconstitutional-orders-to-detain-american-citizens.html
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HHHmmmm,
Their timing could be a bit ordinary.
We’re all about to have time off. We’ll have more time to imagine things, and maybe spread “the word” 😉
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Years ago it was the Stasi. Today it’s heavies from the Ministerium für Klimasicherheit. Nothing much changes.
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Those putting together pieces of the puzzle, as our crazy world unfolds, may see a connection between two intriguing news stories:
1. Russia space agency managers and staff are banned from foreign travel
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-russia-space-agency-foreign.html
2. Russian Mars spacecraft still stuck in Earth’s orbit
http://planetsave.com/2011/11/12/russian-mars-mission-stuck-in-low-earth-orbit-rocket-poses-danger-of-re-entry/
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This is weird deja vu stuff:-
Brown Shirts ( green shirts)
The Ministry of Information (the IPCC)
Fawning Quislings ( insert self important sycophantic UN grovelling pollie’s name——-)[Milky Bar Kid perhaps]
Nuremburg Rally(s) ( Copenhagen, Cancun, Durban……………….)
Governments telling you not to think, not to understand but TRUST THEM! (because they know what is good for you)
Sadly this will not end without much pain & suffering.
Merry Christmas Matt & John. Thanks for another year’s “enlightenment”.
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on WUWT:
UPDATE: I’ve been in contact with Roger (Tallbloke) and he tells me that he is not a suspect, and that they’ll clone his hard drives and return the computers to him. – Anthony
May I suggest that we don’t know why he was raided, it is all supposition. Maybe Tall Bloke was [snip… doing something illegal] – we don’t know. I think everyone is jumping at shadows.
——————————–
Note from Jo: This comment was intended as a hypothetical, but was unnecessarily inflammatory, hence the rewrite [ ].
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Yeah right.
And the simultaneous Letter of Demand from the US Dept of Justice on WordPress for the records of Tallbloke, No Consensus and Climate Audit is because climate sceptic sites are fronts for a pedophile ring being financed by Big Oil for the benefit of Tobacco company executives.
That about cover your “theory”?
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Janama,
You are really stupid. How would you like that slur thrown at you? You should never have posted such horrendous insinuations. It is plainly clear what this is about; TWO days in November 2011, that is all! See below
Pursuant to Title 18, United States Code, Section 2703(f), this letter is a formal request for the
preservation of all stored communications, records, and other evidence in your possession
regarding the following domain name(s) pending further legal process:
http://tallbloke.wordpress.com, http://noconsensus.wordpress.com, and http://climateaudit.org
(“the Accounts”) from 00:01 GMT Monday 21 November 2011 to 23:59 GMT Wednesday 23
November 2011.
I request that you not disclose the existence of this request to the subscriber or any other person,
other than as necessary to comply with this request. If compliance with this request might result
in a permanent or temporary termination of service to the Accounts, or otherwise alert any user
of the Accounts as to your actions to preserve the information described below, please contact
me as soon as possible and before taking action.
I request that you preserve, for a period of 90 days, the information described below currently in
your possession in a form that includes the complete record.
http://tuxedo-mines.com/wordpress-preservation-request-1.pdf
Janama.
You are devoid of all moral worth and totally unfit to be posting here.
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Janama. May i suggest that you are a complete all singing tap dancing arse clown.
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What an awful thing to say, Janama. Truly horrendous!
You should retract that statement and hope to hell that you don’t get sued for defamation.
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All bloggers know knowledge is power. Authorities don’t act unless someone has lodged an official complaint. Bloggers need to know who lodged the complaint, and/or who was behind them.
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“…allegedly in the search for the climategate leaker.” Janama, I don’t think we’re jumping at shadows.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but for anybody to be able to “clone” my hard drive is just freaky. This is 1984 type stuff. Intimidation is (a large) part of it, imo.
Cheers,
Janet
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They can pry my computer from my cold dead hands………….
Long live free speech
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My old computer slows up with too much stuff stored on it so I regularly off-load older material to an external drive. Anyone concerned about 1984 style invasions of privacy could easily hide all their confidential matters in something not much larger than a packet of cigarettes.
Upon initial reading this Tallbloke issue looks like intimidation.
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“It’s not the crime, it’s the cover up” seems an appropriate Nixonian reference.
Actually, the crime is pretty bad as well.
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A third rate burglary to steal campaign secrets?
Not much of a crime.
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The real question is – Will they ‘find’ some kiddie porn on his computer? (Note the parentheses before you react).
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JMD, I think you want people to notice the single quotes rather than the parentheses …
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It’ll get spread around. They can’t shut everyone down.
http://tuxedo-mines.com/wordpress-preservation-request-1.pdf
The arrogance of this action is astounding.
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The problem is not so much with the government – it is us,
“The Tiny Dot”
http://thecrowhouse.com/tinydot.html
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I can hear the police interview now –
Do you know any AGW sceptics?
Have you ever expressed sceptical AGW opinions?
Have you ever visted a web site sceptical of the AGW position?
Yes to any of those questions and he is in a lot of trouble.
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The Metropolitan Police, the Norfolk Constabulary and the Computer Crime division and the U.S. Department of Justice Criminal Division have worked fast since 1.0 haven’t they?
The revelations of 2.0 must have put the frighteners on someone that pulls strings – 3.0 must be stoppered at all cost.
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Jeez, for a minute there I thought I just logged on to the Puffington Host during the Bushitler era. I agree with Janama. Chill, mates.
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YOU chill if you want.
I’ve had my home torn to pieces by over-zealous cops on fishing expeditions, because of articles I wrote.
It’s not a pleasant experience.
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The thing about this is they could add any kiddy porn they want to a cloned hardrive and claim they found it there. Or they could leave a bug on it when they return it. I suspect general intimidation is a realistic objective.
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This is very disturbing, particularly apparently coordinated action against at least three high profile (re Climategates 1 & 2) bloggers so far.
Especially since reams of science is coming out all over showing the IPCC consensus is wrong. Anyone with a brain can see the whole edifice will come down sooner or later, especially as the temperature steadfastly refuses to rise (for very good and scientifically understood reasons). Durban was one sign, the currently crashing prices for carbon credits in Europe and NZ is another.
The interesting question is have the US DoJ just shot themselves in the foot? You see there’s this guy, a certain Mr Assange (who I might add briefly claimed Climategate 1 for himself, but lets not go there), stuck in home detention in the UK trying to avoid deportation to Sweden because he asserts the Swedish authorities will plunk him on a plane to sunny Washington (or maybe even sunnier Guantanamo?) as soon as they can get a hold of him. This action by the Norfolk boys in blue and the US DoJ will make very interesting evidence in Mr Assange’s next appeal…
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[…] Tallbloke’s computer seized, Jeff ID threatened in Climategate retaliation: It’s intimidation […]
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I am sure that there is legal redress for this. I hope Tallbloke acts to get compensation. I am sure this could not have happened in Australia. The Police would need a warrant from a Magistrate (who would need proof that a criminal act had been committed- a JP can not sign a warrant if items are removed or there will be any damage)and it maybe necessary for an independent person such as a JP to be present while a search is conducted.
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We’ll see if Ian Wishart at The Briefing Room in NZ gets a visit from the constabulary – he also got mail.
Hasn’t said much, just a headline that links to a brief http://www.tbr.cc/
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It can and it does and it has.
The police don’t need “proof” of anything. They only need to convince the Magistrate of a “reasonable suspicion”.
Once the cops are legally through the front door, everything else is “fair game”, regardless of what the original warrant was about.
Been there, done that.
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In WA you need a Magistrate to sign an Arrest Warrant. However, a JP can ssigh n the search warrant.
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Just a tactical move in the game of keep the pressure up on the person(s) who leaked or handled the emails. But the main issue is the old UK pressure behind the scenes to lock up the unreleased emails in some sort of deal before the code is either released or cracked and somehow prevent an embarrassing disclosure of the contents.
Seems to hint at political pressure and Tallbloke is part of the squeezeplay. His surrender of his disks “for cloning” is an abuse of his willingness to help authority fish through his private information.
If Mann fights tooth and nail for official work emails to be kept secret contrast that with Tallbloke handing over computers and disks for “cloning” and information that most likely has nothing of relevance to whatever the police “might” be seeking. And that random fishing in itself is an abuse of legal process.
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[…] Tallbloke’s computer seized, Jeff ID threatened in Climategate retaliation: It’s intimidation […]
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what are you guys on?
here we have major player in the leaked emails, i.e. his was one of the first sites to get the info.
So surely if you want to find info regards how he got that info you’d investigate his site.
nothing going on here…… move on folks.
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That was over two years ago. Are you suggesting that this is all about the “original” climategate, and has nothing to do with the recent climategate 2?
And what on earth do “leaked emails” have to do with it anyway?
According to your post at #5, this is all about kiddie porn and a pedophile ring run for the benefit of Big Oil.
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oh, com’on you are beating up what I said – I inferred that we don’t know why they investigated Tallbloke – I’m saying that we should not jump to conclusions, I used the kiddy porn as an example of what we may not know about Tallbloke, purely hypothetical.It’s turned out to be harmless, they’ve returned his computer.
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It’s not harmless, they’ve cloned everything on his computer. Where is the privacy?
In one day they’ve got more from a volunteer who owes the public nothing than they have in 7 years from public funded workers like Michael Mann. Why don’t they clone his computer — (and his home computer too)*?
PS:*/sarc .
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Perhaps if someone filed a complaint?
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1984 arrived late.
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With regards to a search warrant, in most jurisdictions it requires an investigating officer to provide or swear evidence supporting a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed and that there is a reasonable basis to suspect that there is evidence of the crime on the premises. The application for a warrant must include what specifically is being looked for and what may be required to be seized.
If there was no such warrant, then it is possible the police simply asked TallBloke (Roger) if they could enter. He mentioned he ushered them inside. So if invited in, no search warrant would be needed. If they then asked him if he had any computers and he responded as indicated, and the police asked if he minded if they take a look, and if they could take them away and Tallbloke agreed, again no warrant would be needed. If he subsequently acquiesced to the drives being copied (cloned), then again, no warrant would be needed.
This is of course only speculation that the police may have used the show of force to intimidate co-operation. But I doubt it. I think a magistrate of JP would find it sufficient to know Tallbloke was the first to receive or break the Climategate 2.0 emails to authorise a warrant to pick up his computers.
What is surprising is that if the police were actively working the Climategate ‘leaks’ case, (either the original or 2.0), why did it take over three weeks from the Climategate 2.0 leaks to seize Tallbloke’s computers? It should have been done as soon as the leaked emails were confirmed as genuine.
It does smell as if someone has leant on the police from a great height. They have been told to ‘do something about catching the leaker, and/or stopping the 200,000 other files from being released’.
The timing of the raid, coming a few days after Durban, would make me think that some parties frustrated by the lack of support at Durban is furious about the damage the leaks have caused. They have returned to their office from Durban and are perhaps very concerned about possibly more damage from further email releases. Particularly if those releases start to implicate bureaucrats and politicians (which may include themselves), who have so far avoided scrutiny in any leaked emails. So far it has really only been scientists and IPCC hangers on who have had the spotlight on them.
Perhaps the climate alarmists just think it would be better to have sceptics talking about the police raid instead of the evaporating support for ‘climate action’ and the lack of evidence of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming?
I don’t really believe this theory though, because the obvious risk is that such action would bring Climategate 2.0 under the microscope. So far, most main stream media have paid Climategate 2.0 scant regard, choosing to believe there was ‘nothing new’ revealed. In my opinion anything which causes MSM to have another look at Climategate 2.0, would be most welcome!
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In one day they’ve got more from a volunteer who owes the public nothing than they have in 7 years from public funded workers like Michael Mann.
That is a central observation, Jo, and one we should not lose sight of.
Serious issues, and so one needs a laugh now and again.
UEA’s recent comment reported in the Guardian?
“We are pleased to hear that the police are continuing to actively pursue the case following the release last month of a second tranche of hacked emails from the Climatic Research Unit. We hope this will result in the arrest of those responsible for the theft of the emails and for distorting the debate on the globally important issue of climate change.”
Distorting the debate. That’s it – release of what they actually said is distorting the debate. Hilarious.
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Janama. Sometimes it really is better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you really are a complete idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt.
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So, its ok for Tallbloke’s privacy to be a paramount concern, (when he’s at least being investigated for something) but not the people who’s emails are being selectively quoted or quoted out of context in some instances to drive the “ClimateGate the Final Nail” beat up?
I would imagine that the people who’s correspondence has been leaked consider they have a right to know who’s done the leaking since its driven some rather vicious attacks on them.
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You would imagine wrong. first, employer emails are not “private”. They did not “arrest” Tallblokes work computer, they arrested his “private” computer. If you care to show where the “private” computers of the team were hacked, you can then try to make a point. As such, so far, you have none.
Second, Unless you are pulling a Greg Laden, Tallbloke is not guilty of anything. So the police action is harrasment in the least. Nor did the “authorities’ release the UEA emails. A private person (perhaps an insider, perhaps a hacker) did. So whether or not a crime was committed by an individual, does not give the state (even in England) the right to break the law. You may be familiar with the old adage of 2 wrongs.
Third, only emails were released by from UEA. Tallbloke had EVERYTHING taken – emails, documents, private files, EVERYTHING. It is hardly a tit for tat (unless you come to a knife fight with a bazooka).
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So, you’ve seen the warrant then?? Or is this statement just juicy speculation?
(The warrant is seen at this LINK) CTS
poor diddums. Yup they took stuff copied drive and gave it back.
Do you actually have a point here, or are you just having a widdle rant?
Or, has it finally dawned on people here that hey, whoever stole the emails may have done something, actually, criminal??
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Catamon #21.1.1.3.2, the warrant was to search for:-
But Roger is “not a suspect” for the offence as he has been told by the police so that leaves the reason for the warrant to be to enable a search for:-
I.e. material other than “material that is likely to be relevant evidence” should NOT have been taken.
If there was an offence Roger wasn’t the offender someone else was, but if there was no offence (no evidence of one)……
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It’s my understanding that the emails had been compiled to fulfill a FOI request anyway but weren’t released when they should have been, FOIA just made sure they were – hardly a crime, more of a public service.
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Just while we’re on the subject Pajamas:
I’d love to hear the ethical rationale between apparently seeing nothing wrong with this, all proper and above board, while the efforts of an Attorney General of a US state to obtain employment information about Michael Mann – an employee of the state – is somehow a “gross invasion of privacy” that warrants the million dollar price-tag (so far) – again at taxpayer’s expense – of Mann and his employer from handing over said information.
Just what exactly do you people call these double standards – “post-modern morality”?
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because you are talking apples and oranges. What Mann did is worth investigating, what Tallbloke did appears to be nothing.
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Exactly. Memoryvault. You support the coppers busting down MM’s front door, but not when they come looking for the climategate liberator? Both situations are fraught with legal and ethical dilemmas. We’re all on the same side, but nothing is black and white here. So everyone should climb down off their high horse, take a deep breath and give this some time for the dust to settle. It understandable that the first impulse is to invoke Godwin’s Law, but how does that make us any better than the ANU idiots who disingenuously pretend their lives are under threat? Skeptics are more rational than the zealots, no? If this turns out to be the start of something as bad as you think, trust me, we’ll never let ‘them’ forget this day.
By the way, I think cops – in general – are the bloody good guys who will protect us from real existential threats, you know, like this:
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=2007060713465360
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I’ll start from the bottom and work my way up.
This is because you have never been in the dock, risking twenty years behind bars, while cops take turns lying under oath to secure a conviction.
Been there, done that. Fortunately – for me – truth won on that occasion.
Unfortunately, neither skeptics nor zealots rule the day of public opinion. They only rule “on the day” so to speak.
The time is rapidly approaching when the “zealots” as you call them, will find themselves being judged by the “silent majority” exactly according to the principles the zealots themselves have established.
You know – “crimes against humanity” – “mass-murderers” – “death trains” – tattooing”, “re-education camps”; none of these things were introduced into the debate by the sceptics.
The zealots are now condemned to live in the reality of their own creation.
The fact that I am on the sidelines cheering is hardly relevant.
I never claimed to be a “nice guy”.
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Baying for blood carries the day on Jo Nova’s blog? Nice work, MemoryVault. You would lower us to the level of the worst Warmist rhetoric, because they start it first, eh?
If the first rule of posting comments is never to post a comment you can’t read back aloud without covering your monitor with spittle… the second is to remember that the World Wide Web is not only forever but may be read by thousand, aye, millions of people who come to this debate with eyes unglazed by hatreds or slights committed past. To them only the quality of your reasoning will stand the test, while the bile will detract. And history will coolly judge your words – which are the done deeds of the virtual world – long after the flame that fires your emotion has died.
We should lift our game and understand that if we are to win in the court of public opinion and at the polls, we will win it by being better than they are, not by lowering ourselves to the same pathetic standard they have for themselves. Not by playing the victim card, not by hating and not by exaggerating reality. That’s what Warmists do. Not rational human beings.
On a practical note, the Warmist zeitgeist still control the ABC/Fairfax which will eagerly read your words tomorrow and scheme to twist them into a characterisation of all us as violence-prone, just as they have done in the past.
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My considered response to the request would be:
“Dear Kendra,
Get stuffed!
Yours, etc …”
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Authorities cashing the Climategate leaker is like a dog chasing a car, what would they do with it if the caught it? if the leaker has more emails it is likely he would take the attitude “you may as well be hung for a flock as a sheep”
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Incoherent rambler
Your suggested questions are remarkably similar to those I had to answer when I was interviewed about Climategate 1 by the Norfolk Constabulary. Fortunately no negative results… yet!
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“2. All records and other information relating to the Accounts and any associated accounts
including the following:
a. Names (including subscriber names, user names, and screen names);
b. Addresses (including mailing addresses, residential addresses, business addresses,
and e-mail addresses);
c. Local and long distance telephone connection records;
d. Records of session times and durations, and the temporarily assigned network
addresses (such as Internet Protocol (“IP”) addresses) associated with those
sessions, including any log history of when username “FOIA” uploaded posts to
the Accounts;
e. Length of service (including start date) and types of service utilized;
f. Telephone or instrument numbers (including MAC addresses);
g. Other subscriber numbers or identities (including the registration Internet Protocol
(“IP”) addresses); and
h. Means and source of payment for such service (including any credit card or bank
account number) and billing records.”
Could they possibly be searching for copies of “the file”?
They are asking for email addresses of people who have visited those sites.
Are they trying to scare people off these sites?
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.
Hammer. Nail. Head.
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There’s a fair chance that the leaker(s) want to follow developments and the climate blogs are a good place to start. It is possible that somewhere on the global blog rolls is a person directly involved in the leak.
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Regardless of the legality, it stinks. Here we have someone who has blown the whistle on what appears to be fraud that is costing people billions of dollars and the response by the police looks like an attempt to intimidate any future shedding of light by making an “example” out of people.
The government in this case, in my personal opinion, is taking exactly the wrong approach. They should be investigating the “tricks” and “bodges” that went into creating what appears to be the false science of “global warming”. Judith Curry, a climate scientist, has a guest posting on her blog just today exposing the IPCC ignoring information that their climate feedback information in the AR4 report was wrong. They KNOW it is wrong. This is the largest scandal in human history and it is being covered up. Even the police are being brought in as part of covering it up.
The police are investigating the wrong parties here.
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I find this to not be surprising but a tad worrying, no, a lot worrying. OK, that got that out of the way, let us get on with it!
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Good, hopefully we get all you little beggars.
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Get us for what, oh Grand Supremo Judge Tristan?
10
And the thing is, you’re serious, aren’t you tristan.
10
Tristan, Why are you here? Did you/do you have a weird relationship with your father? Like a delinquent child, you keep seeking disapproval from the adults. You keep pushing your barrow here, defending an extremist political movement led by a group of unethic scientists funded by the anti-western bloc at the UN. Do you have a Che Guevara t-shirt as well? And you mock us because we’re paying your wages. You should consider yourself lucky you can live your whole life in a country that pays your public service salary and never once demands that you must be a responsible adult.
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I’m here because tackling misinformation is a hobby of mine.
Relationship with daddy-o was/is pretty good.
Che was tough, smart and I don’t much like the people he fought against. His beliefs were a bit of a mixed bag though.
I consider myself lucky to have been the focus of your wisdom. x
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Tristan,
Tackling misinformation is my hobby too.
One of us is tackling misinformation, and one an unwitting serf.
You still can’t find any observational evidence to back up the faith that CO2 causes more than 1.2 C eh?
Jo
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One of us is tackling misinformation, and one an unwitting serf.
Agreed.
You still can’t find any observational evidence to back up the faith that CO2 causes more than 1.2 C eh?
The observational evidence provides a broad range of estimates for climate sensitivity (something like 1 – 8C). Bayesian analysis of the various data and models leaves us with a sensitivity range of something in the order of 1.5C – 4.5C. I’m interested to see whether the 5AR uses a different approximate to the 4AR’s 2-4.5 estimation.
(Do you realize that is a very large climate sensitivity temperature spread?) CTS
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Tristran:
“Bayesian analysis of the various data and models” says whatever you want it to. And I am sure you know that.
Empirical data shows climate sensitivity is less than 1 K for a doubling of CO2 equiavalent. But I am sure you knew that too.
Richard
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CTS: Yeah, it’s large and I really hope it’s on the lower end.
Richard: Sadly, empirical data shows no such thing.
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Tristran:
I do not know why you insist on repeatedly making statements which prove you know nothing about the subjects you pontificate about.
For example, in reply to my writing the accurate statement:
you wrote:
You could not be more wrong: see e.g.
http://www.mitosyfraudes.org/idso98.pdf
Richard
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Unfortunately, Idso isn’t a credible source of climate science. His two main claims, that CS is low and that the MWP was hotter than today, are mutually exclusive.
10
Tristran:
You say:
Say what!
I provided this link
http://www.mitosyfraudes.org/idso98.pdf
which with one click anybody can check is to a peer-reviewed paper published in the reputable journal ‘Climate reseaerch’.
Your reply proves to everybody that you are a bigotted, ignorant fool who when shown to have made a false claim refuses to apologise.
Richard
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I’m aware that it is a peer-reviewed paper, though the journal was the same one that infamously posted that lousy bit of work by Soon, so I’m not sure how ‘reputable’ it is. There are quite a few papers that claim to contradict the conventional understanding of climate science. None of them have passed post-publishing scrutiny.
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Tristran:
Your silly gabblefest is becoming annoying.
I shall ignore your attempted side-track by your slight of an excellent paper by Willie Soon. It has no relevance to anything in this thread.
The situation now is:
1. You will cite some fault in Idso’s paper (nobody else has managed to find any fault in it although the egregious Gavin Schmidt discussed a ‘straw man’ on the Fenton Communications’ propoganda blog titled RealClimate).
OR
2. You will apologise for your assertion that I have proven is baseless and untrue.
OR
3. You will know you have been shown to be a fool and a liar.
Richard
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Maybe the group of bloggers who can post sensibly should not reply to Tristan’s post not give him a ‘thumbs up’ or ‘thumbs down’ rating? Let’s not give this juvenile person any attention and then he will become bored with his endless attempts at trolling.
If Tristan wants to change his way of posting and have a proper ‘adult like’ debate then he is more than welcome to stay.
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Oh I’m just being cheeky darlin.
Mr hacker isn’t a whistleblower though, and is a criminal. Of course you will beg to differ. The
evil empirecourts will agree with me.10
The only thing the courts would agree upon are copyright infringement of a handful of files and not concerning the emails since those can be argued to be public information.
But, of course, UK courts would have to agree upon intent, beyond reasonable doubt, for copyright infringement to be seen as criminal. So it seem more likely the courts would brand you a criminal for your actual criminal offense of, with intent, calling someone a criminal that hasn’t been convicted of a crime under UK legislation. EU membership saw fit to dislodge the logic of member countries laws. :p
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The courts may be totally impotent depending on what jurisdiction the leaker is under. And lets face it, if the leaker is close to the CRU and he/she/they haven’t been found out yet, it is unlikely they will ever be. Unless they want to be.
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Out of interest Tristan, how do you characterise Wikileaks, Julian Assange and Bradley Manning?
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I think journalism is of critical import to society when it adheres to proper journalistic standard. I think a lot of the information supplied by Wikileaks is important for the public to be made aware of. The bradley manning video exposed the realities of American warfare. In both cases however, proper journalism always requires investigation into the context and rationale.
All ‘Climategate’ has shown is that there isn’t any scandal whatsoever. Has the hacker released the entirety of the emails? Of course not. Why? Because it’d be a non-story. That’s not ‘whistleblowing’, that’s manipulation.
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I see. You are as I suspected a complete hypocrite in that case.
You’re aware that Wikileaks also released the cables in selected tranches?
Also the standard defence against the finding in the cables was “out of context”.
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Well then I’d need to hear strong justification for why all the cables werent released
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Whistleblowing is defined by releasing information about what goes against set rules of procedure, moral, or law. Whistleblowing is protected under the UK PIDA 1998 in England.
An outside hacker would, of course, not be protected as a whistleblower, unless, of course, he was a student, faculty member, visiting [whatever], … that accessed the system from outside.
Are the complete set of emails relavent to the case of showing the behind the scenes missconduct and potential criminal neglect to adhere to procedure, moral, and law? That is the story, and that story has been told by the release of the current 6000+ emails plus supporting documents.
What the rest of the emails would do is to support the original story, like a backstory, give an even broader context to the whole farce that is climate science.
The rest of the emails that has been released were actually released, if you didn’t notice, they’re just behind lock and key and maybe he just didn’t feel it would be right to release everything because not every email might be relevant to the actual story or it might just be because of slight case of data corruption. :p
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“All ‘Climategate’ has shown is that there isn’t any scandal whatsoever”
Tristan, you want to say “hide the decline” and “Mike nature trick” are good scientific methods, nothing new to see here, move along? The travesti of lack of warming is a private opinion, and redefining peer-review to keep others out is just normal, boys will be boys? And not to give the raw data, to ignore FOIA law and rather delete it is also ok? Well maybe you think it is a non-story and ok, but many people do not agree with you. So Tristan live further in your own bubble, but the real world is different.
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Tristan presumably you also see no link between the set up of Assange and the misuse of repressive state power against skeptical bloggers?
10
It’s a bit difficult to see when your head is up……..
10
Message from the latest Evil Empire / Collective co-op meeting.
Over tea, scones and a few bottles of Red, decided that, Yes Tristan, we agree with you.
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Well, a ringing endorsement from the Shiraz socialist knitting circle! Woo hoo!
10
Shiraz!! You ignorant philistine. Hardly a lunchtime drop and swill compared to a good Merlot or Grenache.
10
who am I begging to Tristan?
10
My advice to all climate bloggers:
You can never be too paranoid!
Use a totally separate computer to do all your blogging.
Make sure no personal information at all is kept on this blogging computer.
Use an anonymous proxy server for your private work
Avoid using US based online services such as WordPress or Gmail. Russian sites are your best choice in these matters.
Regularly back up all personal files (in an encrypted format) to an online storage site.
Encrypt all your private data (512/1024 bit AES). A passphrase of at least 8 words including upper and lower case letters eg Uncle Fred was born in New York City in 1940 (without the spaces) is far more secure (it requires billions of years to crack with a supercomputer) and far easier to remember than a shorter alphanumeric one such as De3$232!@
You are sure to “forget” your passphrase under duress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption
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bananabender – they can have all my data, all my children’s pictures, all of my business files. They already have most of it via my digital imprint in the money market. So what, what are they going to do with it?
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Maybe you should ask Julian Assange about what happens to those who annoy the rich and powerful.
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and who is “they” anyway?
10
“and who is “they” anyway?”
Good Question!
Some clues –
YouTube “Season of Treason”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LxY_H5V0Kw
The Crowhouse.com, Max Igan
http://thecrowhouse.com/home.html
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Janama “they”are called the state. It often wears a uniform and sometimes comes knocking on your door when you upset and threaten the powerful elites. Apparently also if you threaten the warmist/ carbon trading/ pseudo science industry.
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Instead of investigating TallBloke they should have a look at the staff at ClimateWorks here: http://www.climateworksaustralia.org/staff.html Most are from UK (maybe Norfolk)?
ClimateWorks says.
Great idea (all windmills and solar) – all this in 8 years from now.
The board of ClimateWorks is a bigger worry – great group of Earth Lovers http://www.climateworksaustralia.org/board.html
And The Australian Climate Scientists love this group also – list & link below:
The following are founding members of Climate Scientists Australia
Ann Henderson-Sellers – Macquarie University
Lesley Hughes – Macquarie University
Andy Pitman – University of NSW
Tony McMichael – Australian National University
Matthew England – University of NSW
Amanda Lynch – Monash University
Neville Nicholls – Monash University
Dave Griggs – Monash University
David Karoly – University of Melbourne
Nathan Bindoff – University of Tasmania
Roger Jones – Victoria University
Ove Hoegh-Guldberg – University of Queensland
Will Steffen Australian National University
Link http://www.climateworksaustralia.org/climate_scientists_australia.html
And also they say with a complete straight face:
And the police are after TallBloke??????????????????????????????
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exactly.
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Here’s an interesting angle!
As soon as I saw the notification of Jeff Id’s new thread about the Tallbloke raid I immediately copied it to Jo Nova here in Australia and then visited the web sites of all the major UK newspapers to see if they had any useful coverage. This was by the way les than 3 hours after the raid.
There was no UK newspaper coverage. None at all. Nada.
I then posted a comment in a comments thread at the Guardian relating to a Guardian article discussing the powers and behaviour of the UK police during the recent riots there, asking why there had been no coverage by the Guardian or any other UK newspapers of the recent Tallbloke police raid?
A perfectly relevant and reasonable query I thought?
Out of idle curiousity I then left the web page of the readers comments thread open and went back to work, checking the comments thread it every 5 minutes or so to see if anyone else had any more useful news to report (about the Tallbloke raid).
Exactly 18 minutes after I had posted it, the Guardian’s ‘moderator’ pulled my post stating it breached the newspaper’s guidelines…….
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Not a lot … okay, nothing at all on the “objective and impartial (ho ho)” BBC’s radio news, either, and you’d think they must be very pleased with this development. Funny how some news just isn’t important enough to mention.
Thanks for spreading the news, Jo. As someone on WattsUp said, sunlight is the best antiseptic, and we need to make sure stinky tricks like this get plenty of it.
10
Don’t you just hate hypocrites? The Guardian loves to bash cops for people bashing except when the cops are bashing people the Guardian wants bashed.
We saw this with the Logies Awards where Juilian Assange was hailed as a hero for stealing government files, but of course the cops should be sent after the climategate ‘criminals.’
Hypocrisy is the worse crime against reason.
10
Ah yes, the Guardian, that rag of puke inducing hypocrisy that likes to self-promote as a beacon defender of free speech and integrity.
Yeah, right:
http://i-squared.blogspot.com/2011/11/its-mob-rule-at-guardian.html
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janama @ 21.1.1
From the top pajamas:
You didn’t “infer” anything.
To “infer” is to reasonably extrapolate from available knowledge.
On the other hand, to “imply” is to make it up as you go along, either without any supporting information, or even in contradiction of available information.
So, despite all the available information to the contrary in the article, you “implied” that the raid on Tallbloke was, or could have been, due to some nefarious activity by Tallbloke – such as child pornography.
Glad you feel that way about it pajamas.
We’ll see.
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Well, this has certainly caused some excitement – 29 responses in six hours – one every 12 minutes on average. Not bad.
Point 1: There are still two theories (at least) regarding the original appearance of the CRU emails. UK authorities have never accepted the “leak” theory, arguing instead for the “hack” theory.
Point 2: Considerable time and effort was expended by the UK plods (with some assistance from their US cybercrime colleagues) in trying to find the identity(ies) of the “hacker(s). We have no definitive intelligence on the outcome of those investigations, especially regarding what they found, nor what future lines of inquiry they might follow.
Point 3: All of the emails released as part of the second tranche were within the same timeframe as the first tranche, so were presumably leaked or hacked at the same time.
Point 4: We are told that there is also at least one further tranche that is currently being withheld.
Point 5: Nothing that is typed or said or viewed on the internet is truly private.
Now, it would take a high level of skill to hack into the CRU without leaving any trace whatsoever. Not impossible, but not easy either. Perhaps there was evidence of hacking, but the plods have drawn a blank in identifying who did it, which would be the case if the hack occurred from a temporary internet address. So following normal investigatory process, they would go to the next known sighting of the emails – TallBlokes computer. They would want to know if the material was received electronically, and whether the sending address was a temporary one or not. If it was temporary, then they have drawn another blank. If it was a permanent one, they they can start working backwards from there. If the currently accepted story, that the emails were sent via a Russian server, hold up, then the plods have a serious (although not insurmountable) liaison problem with the Russian authorities. But if that story does not hold up, then they are still in the business of following the electronic chain of events.
If there is no evidence of electronic receipt, then perhaps it was received on some form of fixed media, in which case it might contain other evidence that could be linked to the sender (think of fingerprints, for example). But consider the fact that if it arrived on fixed media, that automatically implies that either it was carried out of the CRU in that form (proof of a leak), or it was transferred from an electronic form to fixed media at some later time for reasons unknown (a somewhat tenuous hypothesis).
In either case, we are told that there is a third tranche, and that fact alone would be sufficient to have the police take some form of action to try to prevent its release. There is not conspiracy in this, just normal police process. If they can prevent a further worsening of “the crime” they will.
Another hypothesis is that by taking an action that they would know would become public very quickly, they may be trying to frighten the “perpetrator” into breaking cover.
This is the way that plods (and some of the less creative intel folks) think. It is not some grand conspiracy to destroy the blogosphere (at least not this time around). They are called “plods” for a reason – they take one deliberate step at a time, go through a fairly fixed process, and eventually get to a conclusion through pure tenacity.
They have been plodding for a while now, and apparently getting nowhere. Perhaps someone is being creative, or perhaps they are just frustrated, or perhaps a Senior Officer somewhere is a little bit frightened.
But it is not the end of the world.
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But you’re wrong.
A comment posted to a blog goes nowhere near the blog owners computer.
This comment will never touch Jo Nova’s computer.
Taking a persons computer will in no way solve the case, unless of course they are fishing for an email list or other evidence.
More fool them for hosting on WordPress, which is a fat easy target to pressure and get them to cough up the details.
I’d be looking into moving off the service onto some private dedicated servers, pronto. And have multiple hot backups ready to switch the DNS over just to keep the plod on their toes.
It doesn’t matter anyway, they are just chasing ghosts. Whoever it was wasn’t stupid enough to upload from their home PC.
At this point in the discussion those in the USA should be interested in the SOPA law, which gives the right to take down an internet set via removing the DNS records on the say-so of authorities. It is currently in front of Congress.
It is being pushed through under the guise of ‘anti piracy’ but you can bet dollars to donuts that the same laws would be used in a case like this to shut down an offending site.
Just remember, the government that said it was going to close down Guantanamo bay has now decided US Citizens can now be sent there.
The worst thing is the warmists will applaud this measure, just as the idiot left applauds media witch hunts, not realising that the same rules and precedents will one day be used against them.
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The police know they won’t find anything but they have to go through the motions to appease their (technically incompetent) masters.
The Age was cheering on the authorities recently when they were attacking News Ltd. Now they have been raided they aren’t so happy with law’n’order.
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brc
In what way am I wrong?
In my comment, I was referring to the file of emails “obtained” from the CRU. I did not mention comments to this or any other blog.
The police will have been wanting to see the actual original file (presumably a zip file) so they can determine the internal metadata. This may or may not tell them something interesting.
And WordPress is not the problem. It is whatever ISP you use for your connection to the internet that is the point where things can be monitored. You can run, but you cannot hide. Get used to it, and live with it.
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>In what way I am I wrong:
Like this:
“So following normal investigatory process, they would go to the next known sighting of the emails – TallBlokes computer. They would want to know if the material was received electronically, and whether the sending address was a temporary one or not. If it was temporary, then they have drawn another blank. If it was a permanent one, they they can start working backwards from there.”
The links to the download were on the wordpress servers, so didn’t touch anyone’s home computer. There will be no trace at all of the comment on his computer, except for maybe the automatic comment notification which arrives in the form of an email to show the comment was made – this will have the details of the comment. But the exact same information is available from WordPress, which they have already notified that they want the information.
Tallblokes own ISP will have nothing to do with it because the the connection is made from the commenting machine to the wordpress machine. So they would need to know who was connecting in order to trace that.
The actual zip file is the same copied from wherever it was copied from, unless people have tampered with it. It’s still not hard to find an original copy, which they undoubtedly already have.
Not trying to fire things up, just trying to keep peoples understanding clear.
In no way would the FOIA person have sent any traffic, files or anything else to Tallblokes home computer, router or ISP. Therefore, unless Tallbloke is also FOIA (or is in close contact with FOIA), seizing his home computers will provide nothing. As we’re all pretty certain he’s not FOIA and doesn’t know who it is, then the computers will provide no evidence in relation to the FOIA emails leaks v1 and v2.
Looking at it logically, the police action has to be seen for what it is – a fishing expedition coupled usefully with a bit of harassment and saber-rattling. As the DoJ appear to have instigated it, it’s very odd they didn’t start with the US based bloggers first. But maybe their pesky laws made a UK citizen a softer target.
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Now, now I am with you. Sorry for my tone.
The piece of this puzzle I was missing was the use of WordPress as a cut-out between FOIA and TallBloke. My colleagues got it, I didn’t. That is going to cost me a few
beersbottles of wine. I should have checked with them first.10
So if, say for example, Tallbloke likes tying his wife up in bed and taking photo’s, those private, personal images stored on a personal data system, are now being laughed at by the Plods (UK slang for Police) because someone posted a link to some emails on his hosted blog.
In what universe can an invasion of privacy on such grounds be right?
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Tristan @ 28
Janama @ 32
Trouble is, guys, who is “we”, “they”, and the “little beggars” shifts with the winds of perception of the major political parties.
So, for the time being, while the parties think there are more votes to be had kissing the collective arses of you mass-murderers, you are the “we”, we are the “little beggars”, and “they” is the party in government at the moment.
However, as the winters get crueller and the dying starts in earnest, that is all going to change. Then the party in government will still be the “they”, but “they” will be looking for scapegoats in order to preserve their own credibility. That is when we become the “we”, and you become “the little beggars”.
The naming, blaming and shaming will start with the Flannery’s, Karoly’s, Garnaut’s, Steffen’s and Chubb’s who are too stupid to realise that they have been deliberately set up for this role by the very politicians and media they serve and fawn to.
As the death toll from the cold mounts, the calls on the “they” of the day for ever-more blood sacrifices of “little beggars” will mount to a crescendo.
In your arrogant dismissal of what has happened to Tallbloke, you guys seemed to have missed the point that Jo’s ISP records for this site are just as seizable by the “they” of the day, as Tallbloke’s are now.
I’ll put that more bluntly for you:
Somewhere down the track you guys are readily identifiable to the authorities via your posts here, simply by “they” demanding the ISP records.
This will happen at a time when a sizable proportion of the population would happily see you swing from your ankles from power posts – a la Mussolini and his followers.
YOU will be in no position to complain – you see nothing wrong with this – you have said so today and given your stamp of approval.
You have, in effect, bet your future on the whims of the “they” of the day, somewhere down the track.
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MemoryV, that’s the sort of over the top freaking out I think Janama and I think is tactically unbecoming. Save it for the real McCoy. Besides, you’re just wrong. One cop raid in England doesn’t mean a sizable proportion of our fellow citizens want to lynch anybody. Last I heard we were in the majority. I hated stupid moral equivalence when it came from the anti-Howard crowd and it doesn’t taste any better coming from us.
We should all be coolly reasonable, analyse the situation without hyperbola and leave the frothing, wild-eyed chest-pounding angst to the Greens, the DeSmogs, the Johnny Cooks and Joseph Romms of the world who will on cue exhibit some really ugly bile over this incident. Assuming there is a rational, undecided audience left out there, they’ll be influenced by a comparison between how the two committed sides handle this affair.
Remember THE first rule of comment posting: If you can’t read back your own comment without covering your computer monitor with spittle YOU LOSE.
10
Wes, perhaps the lynching part is overdone, but the scapegoats bit? I think that’s bang on, and I suspect that why mann, briffa et al are getting so angry, because they willingly stepped into the role, hoping they’d be protected.
10
Well put Wes. There is a fair amount of Chicken Little syndrome going on around here. A bit of rationality is always good.
Two useful things have come out of this, in my opinion:
1. We now have reasonable grounds for believing that the third tranche of emails actually exists (i.e. it was not a bluff), and
2. We can reasonably assume that the undisclosed emails contain yet more damaging information (probably involving the political class, or senior bureaucrats). Based on Jo’s update, I suspect it is from the American end, rather than the Brits. The Brits will plod, the Yanks will kick the door down.
However, there is a saying in the Military – “Tracer rounds work both ways”. The authorities cannot take any action that does not reveal more about what they know or don’t know. This is all good.
10
There has been speculation that the reason the 3rd tranche hasn’t been released is that FOIA doesn’t HAVE the pass-code.
What Chiefio has noted is that the time-code on the encrypted files are all Jan 2011.
I think that may have scuppered that idea!
10
Trofim Lysenko went from hero to zero before he died.
10
I was, for once, just doing a bit of honest trolling.
In your arrogant dismissal of what has happened to Tallbloke, you guys seemed to have missed the point that Jo’s ISP records for this site are just as seizable by the “they” of the day, as Tallbloke’s are now.
The only thing I have to worry about posting on here is saying anything stupid enough to bite me on the ass when when I enter politics. 😉
10
You better hang on to your day job because you might be VERY OLD by the time your ilk get another chance to “enter politics”. ROTFLMFAO!!!!
10
Enter politics?
Please enter your name and full contact details then Tristan so we can all vote for you!
Cheers,
10
You are certainly very ably fitted for that role, Tristan. You can obfuscate and prevaricate with the best of them from what I’ve witnessed here, and you seem to delight in the propagating disinformation (while dressing it up as “fighting the disinformation of others”- masterful table turning there, my boy- you will go far!) so prevalent among the “political animal” classes. And, you never let the facts stand in the way of a good story, if it serves your purposes- a particularly necessary trait for the job to which you aspire.
So, Tristan, when you scale those lofty heights, any chance I could ask you to use your influence to get me a private room in one of the better class gulags (for the “less dangerous dissidents”), perhaps a view of the water would be nice, and perhaps a few extra toilet privileges, you know, for old times sake and all that?
10
Too Late for that, Twisted.
Besides, the City of Trollsdale, WA already has a Greenie councillor. Your mate, MattB.
By the way, Where is Councillor MattB? He has some very strong opinions about the right to privacy.
10
Everything posted here is in the public domain anyway. What is there to worry about?
10
Janama, I’m not sure if you are trying to play Devil’s Advocate, but it Ain’t working.
10
[…] För mer detaljerad information läs på: http://joannenova.com.au/2011/12/tallblokes-computer-siezed-jeff-id-threatened-in-climategate-retali… […]
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Janama,
After this I will have to go back and reconsider all your previous posts
10
[snip… bit personal and off-topic. OK? Sorry Dave. Lets stick to the thread.]
10
Alright Dave, that is just totally foul, dude.
Here we are whinging over a violation of our sacred right to privacy and you ripped a comment by Janama on totally different topic from a totally different domain then post it here to discredit her? Who the heck are you, the thought police? And what just happened to Janama’s right to privacy?
[snip. Fair but OT]
10
Jo,
Intimidation to stop looking for the truth.
Interesting timing with the US jumping in with the UN and an election is around the corner in the US.
Following the money is the grants US pays scientists and the information scientists give in return to keep the science in order and controlled.
Science is currently in a crisis of confidence due to the “DO NOT QUESTION OUR EXPERTS” attitude.
10
The plods are obviously totally clueless and simply appearing to be busy just to satisfy their political masters.
The time to track any hacker is long past. The log files would have been overwritten many times since 2009 and the original hard drives (or even the complete server) have probably been replaced by now
10
The United States of Socialist America( USSA )
Government Comtrol over the Majority, Totalitarian.
A War machine controlled by Government.
Government controlled by Corporations.
Corporations owned by All people who have Pension funds or Superannuation
Try voting on your super fund general meeting , It does not work!
Millions of people with Pension funds or Superannuation dont get to vote
on Corporation policy and dont even know , Their Proxy vote goes to the Directors of the Corporations , Follow the Money from there.
Cheers and a merry Christmas to all
10
http://news.rosettamoon.com/?p=35
U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Company Information:Commonwealth of Australia [0000805157]…..
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You are absolutely right LOL! Welcome to the New World Order of the Fascist federation of the UN
10
Pasting my own comments from the EU Referendum forum:
I should add that the target includes those who watch.
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Hi Bernd,
I agree with your analysis: “The target of the exercise is made to believe that there’s worse to come should one again behave in an inconvenient manner.”
I propose that we call the leaker/hacker by the codename “Spartacus”.
Then when the authorities confiscate someone else’s computer, we can all go online (stand up) and say, No! I’m Spartacus…No! I am Spartacus…
Then they will have to confiscate and search all our computers. That should keep them busy for a hundred years or so.
If they arrest me, I’ll just claim to be Napoleon. Three meals per day, nice cosy padded cell. 8)
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Maxi:
You say;
No, GCHQ in the UK and the NSA in the US (probably also others in other countries)do not need to “confiscate” any hardware, and they use automated sytems to monitor “our computers” in real time.
This is not sci-fi. It is present reality and is done for valid security reasons.
Indeed, it is the main reason for supposing the raid on Tallbloke’s home was an act of general intimidation.
Richard
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Thanks for that Richard,
I didn’t know that they were able to use automated systems to monitor our computers in real time.
I naively assumed that because of the sheer quantity of data on the internet that building up sufficient evidence against evil sceptics as persons of interest, would be a task too daunting. Don’t they have any real work to be getting on with?
Now that you have demolished my cunning plan, I would like to ask if you think that this “act of general intimidation” is likely to succeed, continue, become more frequent, or is it just a paper tiger saying “Look out, I’ve got teeth!”?
My opinion is that it’s a show of authority which may be repeated from time to time until either Spartacus is captured or the AGW scam finally trips over reality.
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MaxL:
You ask me:
Sorry, but I do not know.
Please note that this response is not an evasion: it is simply a statement of ignorance. And why guess about the unknown when time will reveal the reality?
Richard
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Hi Richard
Sorry I can’t reply in sequence, but unfortunately when comments get to ##.1.1.1.1
replies are impossible.
You say: “And why guess about the unknown when time will reveal the reality?”
Do you play chess? If so then you know that it’s important to ask, Why did my opponent make his last move? What plan might he have, or is it just a diversionary tactic? etc.
I think we must try to stay one step ahead of our opponents rather than waiting for his move and then hearing “Checkmate!”
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I am proud to have helped spread the Climategate 2.0 breaking news. I Started a thread on a microsoft developers forum: http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Has-Climategate-20-just-started
I am user name Proton over there.
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Jo,
If I were you I’d encrypt and clone all of your hard drives, obtain back-ups of the history of this blog, and place copies in a safe deposit box, then consult your lawyers for advice. And be alert for the sound of approaching jackboots. This is absolutely the assertion of authority by vested interests, a blatant attwmpt at lawfare.
NOTHING any of the targets of this action have done can compare to the actions of the CAGW cabal.
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If you want to keep stuff off your computer, use external USB drive and dont let anything touch the internal hard drive i.e. C: drive .
Data forensics software can recover up to the last 20 deletes of information of any hard disk area – so even if you think its deleted it from the hard disk…..
Physically shredding a USB drive is one way to kill the data on it.
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“It’s not the evidence that they might have that worries me. It’s the evidence they can manufacture that worries me.”
Consigilori Tom Hagen to Sonny Corelone, in Mario Puzo’s, “The Godfather”.
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P. S. Jo —
Just wondering about my avatar:
Did your IT guys hack my drivers’ licence photo? It looks just like me! (before I grew the beard)
Mark H.
10
Hi Jo,
I came by to see whether or not you were aware of the the latest situation regarding Climategate and the interferance by the State with Tallbloke and Jeff Id (not to mention the previous “investigations” of Steve McIntyre et al after climategate 1). I see that you are, and that the majority of the commentators on this site appreciate the importance of this event,to the extent that the police entering your home with a warrant that apparently accuses you of “nothing” but leads to the “cloning” of your personal archives, is not a trivial thing.
I appreciate the fact that you deal well with what I would describe as the most vile Trolls I have come across in several years of engaging on climate blogs; I speak of course about janama and his/her little cheer leader wes george (“right to privacy” because it is a different blog, after inferences, by janama, of inappropriate sexual activity by someone else, are you serious?) This is an important situation that has to be understood for what it is….intimidation.
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Don’t read too much into the first Janama comment. His point was just that he felt we didn’t know what the police were looking for, not meant as a slur on Tallbloke. Could have been worded better. I have high respect for Janama and Wes — though I disagree on this thread. (Janama, if you want to clarify that first post, we can edit it.)
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yes – maybe I could have worded it better, but you are correct, I felt we did not know what the police were after and shouldn’t jump to conclusions. As Wes has said – we have to be careful not to over react as some here have.
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Jo wrote: “Janama, if you want to clarify that first post, we can edit it.”
This might be a sensible thing for you to do, Janama. Intended or not, it is slur that should retracted and an apology issued.
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Thank you for the vote of confidence, Jo.
That’s the great thing about rational scientific skepticism. We don’t have a dogma to enforce like the church of climate change do. We don’t all have to agree on everything. We understand that a free and open debate with many different voices is the only way to conduct a rational inquiry into meaning of any event, natural or political.
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He who is free, NEVER submits. He who submits, was never free. Stay FREE!
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Hi All.
Lots of talk here about raiding, search warrants, seizure/theft of personal property, arrests, getting lawyers and all sorts of other stuff (and the emotions of some posters are running pretty high).
So far I’ve only seen one comment from Tallbloke that said the attending officers were polite and only cloned (i.e. copied) his stuff rather than confiscating it, as has been stated here and elswhere.
I’ll be interested to hear the correct stated reason(s) for entry and cloning of data from Tallbloke; not somebody who is repeating what they heard ‘in the pub’ or extrapolating a curve from a single point. Until then I will reserve judgement. While I’ll grant that it doesn’t sound like it, as far as I can tell from the actual information available to me, this could be a stupidly heavy-handed ‘request’ for assistance. ‘Helping us with our enquiries’ sorta thing.
To Steve Short at 34. I’m unsurprised that the Grauniad ‘pulled’ your comment. MSM coverage of this, certainly in the UK, will be zip.
Cheers.
NicG.
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NicG:
You say:
They hammered on his door with a Search Warrant at 12 midnight. Nobody wanting “assisance” does that.
Richard
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Hi Richard.
You obviously have different information to me. In no post or article that I’ve read did it say the word ‘hammered’ or that it was 12 midnight. I simply repeated what Tallbloke himself had posted that said the attending officers were polite.
Cheers.
NicG.
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I see, then making an exact duplicate of someone’s digital property is OK by you because the “original” was returned. Evidently, the UK does not deem it necessary to respect the individual rights of its citizens which includes the right to have ones person, property, and papers (including their digital form) secure from search and seizure without a reasonable and reviewed evidence of probable cause.
Looks to me it is still the case that UK citizens and all their effects are property of the crown. The citizen uses them by the leave of the crown. The crown can take, at whim, whatever he wants, whenever he wants, however he wants without even specifying why.
Guess why we Yanks kicked the butt of the crown out of town ca. 1776. I think it’s time the Brits kicked the butt of the crown out of town too. It won’t happen though, they are simply too polite to do that. We yanks are not too polite. If we have to do it again, we can and likely will.
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Hi Lionell.
Are you deliberately mis-interpretting my post or did you not read it properly?
The headline of the post says that hardware was ‘seized’ and in the body of the post it says ‘confiscated’ and from what I’ve read neither are correct. And, for the record, no, I’m not ok with making copies of peoples’ property, but the law allows it, making it legal even if I don’t like it.
FYI, ‘Yanks’ didn’t exist in 1776. It was British and other settlers kicking the butt of the crown.
Cheers.
NicG.
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I stand corrected on the “Yanks” comment. However, whoever kicked the butt of the crown out of town did so with good reason. They REFUSED to be owned by the crown. They insisted on being free men and made it stick! I totally agree with them. I am not a royalist nor do I respect the crown for which I make no apology. Apparently the current Brits are not made of similar stuff.
I am offended by the fact that copying other people’s property by the crown is “legal” in the UK. It still means that the crown views the person, property, and papers of its “citizens” as property of the crown to do with as it whims. The “citizen” may not object because the action is made legal by the word of the crown (how convenient that it turned out that way). I suggest the proper word to use in place of “citizen” in this circumstance is “serf”.
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We’re not “citizens”, we’re “subjects”. And there are still a number of unbelievable antiquated pieces of legislation that belong in a historical or fantasy novel that still apply to us.
For example, if you are a normal “subject” (i.e. not ennobled) and you take a seat in the House of Lords (even if you are on a tour and a tired 85 year old who needs to sit down), you will be arrested and thrown into a cell.
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Check this out-
http://openeye.99k.org/The%20Crown.html
WHO OR WHAT CONSTITUTES THE “CROWN”
The “modern” world of so-called Western Civilization began at the end of the 17th century with the blossoming of the British Empire. The underpinnings of that empire actually began several hundred years earlier with the establishment of the City of London, which is now an 800-year old corporation that controls finance and philosophy for an entity called the Crown. This entity is the creator and controller of the Bank of England and the US Federal Reserve. They also control the World Bank, the IMF and associated cartels. The crown identity is kept most secret. The Crown/Bank of England assumed control of the United States during the Roosevelt administration (1901-1909) when its agent J.P. Morgan took over 25% of American business. Read Here
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When financial reparations were made for Maori land confiscation by the British “Crown”, the “Crown” turned out to be the NZ taxpayer.
The British “Crown” (read City-of-London) did not contribute one cent but the Queen (who must ask the Lord Mayor for permission to visit City-of-London – a sovereign state) did offer an apology.
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Not so fast, Nicky. The English settlers of “New England” often referred to themselves as Yankees long before 1776 and even the British back home used the term.
So, yes, it was truly the Yankee doodle dandy revolution of 1776.
–see wiki
Lionel, the fifth rule of comment posting is never ‘stand corrected’ until you Google it yourself…. That rule comes right after the rule about never making a specific and easily checkable claim without a quick factcheck. Often common sense intuition falls short of the convoluted complexities of reality.
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Hi Wes George.
2 points:
1. My Post Name is NicG. not ‘Nicky’. Please use the correct name to prevent confusion with other nick’s in the forum.
2. The implication of Lionell’s post was that it was Americans as ‘yanks’ that were doing the butt kicking and this was not the case.
Cheers.
NicG.
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Don’t get too comfortable Lionell, The United States is still a British Colony.
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Richard C,
lysander Spooner is referenced in your link. If no written instrument binds anyone until they have signed it then it is only by fear of force [police force] and not by our consent that governments have control.
How is that fear overcome?
“THE CONSTITUTION NOT ONLY BINDS NOBODY NOW, BUT IT NEVER DID BIND ANYBODY. It never bound anybody, because it was never agreed to by anybody in such a manner as to make it, on general principles of law and reason, binding upon him. It is a general principle of law and reason, that a WRITTEN instrument binds no one until he has signed it….”
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If Tallbloke ends up in Court {Madjak @ 60] it would pay him to do a crash course in legalese and the deceptions practised on the unknowing to get them to be unwittingly in subjection to the Courts Commercial/Admiralty Law system.
For instance if the magistrate commands you to stand and you obey without a word you have a problem. If the police or magistrate ask you if you understand,it doesn’t mean do you comprehend. It means do you stand under.
It’s good fun learning the tricks of the legal trade.
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And another important point – silence is deemed to be consent.
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I am NOT subject to any sovereign – British or not. I am my own sovereign. I own myself without reservation nor assignment. Both the British Crown and any other government can go to hell if they think otherwise. No matter what legal fiction they try to impose to make it so, they are irretrievably wrong for doing so.
Yes, they can use their thugs and guns to take what I have and put me in chains or worse. I will NOT beg for my right to exist. It is mine my natural right. I do NOT owe them ANY allegiance or duty whatsoever. In fact, I don’t even have to get them, you, or anyone to agree any more than I have to get anyone to agree that rocks are hard, water is wet, and fire is hot. It simply is so.
He who is free, never submits. He who submits, was never free. The life that is not free is not worth living!
10
The existence of antique documents is one thing — enforcing them is quite another. How did the War of 1812 turn out for the British? How do you think a modern re-run would go?
Perhaps this response to the UK Guardian’s attempt to influence the 2004 election might contain a hint. (Warning: strong language — but humorous.)
I would say that Lionell’s position is based in the reality of the United States — your link is to a bunch of near-hysterical conspiratorial nonsense.
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BobC
Could you check out the statements here for hysterical conspiratorial nonsense please?
http://www.barefootsworld.net/admiralty.html
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Man’s freedom comes from the individual and not from the collective, state, nor the so called international banking conspiracy. Oh, it can be violated but never abolished any more than anyone can abolish the fact that rocks are hard, water is wet, and fire is hot. Thus, even if your reference material is believed to be true, it is not and cannot be.
The “documented” fantasy represents nothing more than a bunch of second hand thugs plotting to take over the world by destroying it. Even their plots aren’t original. It has a long history filled with failure, poverty despair, death, and destruction even for those who believe they can gain from the plotting.
The money they think they control has no value if nothing is produced to give it value. They need the productive individual to keep on being productive. The productive individual doesn’t need anything from them besides simply being left alone to live and work as he sees fit and to keep what he produces by his work. To the degree the individual is interfered with is the degree that he is no longer able to be productive.
Start acting as if you are free. Stop submitting to the petty tyrants of any label. Then you can be truly free. If you submit just to be “safe”, you will neither be free nor safe.
By submitting, you will simply be one of the many who willingly allowed themselves to be sacrificed for “the common good” which is the greatest evil ever conceived by man. There is only the good for the individual because it is only the individual who exists. All the rest is fiction.
Stay free!
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Kevin, that appears to be the sympathetic magic theory of jurisprudence (i.e., appearance controls fact.)
Kevin and Richard C(NZ): I appear to have set you off with an overly strong characterization ( hysterical conspiratorial nonsense ) — I apologize. Such claims are a treasured part of American culture and who am I to say one shouldn’t indulge in them.
HOWEVER — In any country, the government generally will grasp whatever power they think they can get away with. Written documents don’t deter them at all — the USSR had a very liberal constitution, for example. The converse is that written documents don’t allow them to run wild either.
No, it is ultimately the Citizens who must deter government overreach. In the USA, people have a very strong sense of their rights and freedoms (see any of Lionel’s posts for examples). It is these citizens who intimidate those in government into minding their manners. The US is often ridiculed for our “gun culture” — yet the Second Admendment was expressly designed to intimidate the government.
In 1976 I was in India, shortly after Indira Ghandi had dissolved the government and declared herself dictator. The question a great many Indian people had for me as an American was: Why had Richard Nixon resigned when he was the most powerful person in the world? Why had he not done what Ghandi had done?
The only answer I had was that the American people wouldn’t have allowed it (but the Indian people had).
10
Just pointing out the “antique documents” (and the signatories) BobC.
BTW, 31 States Claiming / Planning Sovereignty
More “near-hysterical conspiratorial nonsense” ?
10
Richard C(NZ): Your story about the National Guard unit laying down their weapons underscores my point above: It is the Citizens of the USA who will determine what the government may do — not any documents, ancient or modern. The Constitution is still meaningful in the United States (unlike the USSR’s or Cuba’s) because it is meaningful to sufficient numbers of Citizens.
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No argument with that in the US context BobC but the Citizens (and States) are continually reacting to the over-reach that misrepresentation and exploitation of the documents produce e.g. that documented in the ‘Corp US’ link.
In the global and climate change context we have the Bali Road Map (esp the financial pillar) and the IPCC assessment reports, adopted without question by govts world-wide (Phil Jones, 2008: “Why can’t people just accept that the IPCC is right!!”), dissent from which results in a guy’s IT gear being borrowed for a while.
FWIW I don’t think the US and British situation is the one to watch for the exact reason that you proffer (the Brits might collectively wake up soon). Better to look at the unelected EU bureaucracy (so gung-ho on climate change) and the difficulty that Eurosceptics have in countering it.
More so, what will come out of the current EU financial crisis? The powerhouses are Germany and France but Germany as a nation has a propensity to crave domination more than most (except the likes of Pete Gosselin in it) and to fawn over anyone who demonstrates charisma (US presidents incl). If ever there was an opportunity for even stronger German driven EU over-reach (e.g. the EU aviation levy) this is it.
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Might also be worth meditating over the following too BobC (and Lionell):
Is The Posse Comitatus Act just an “ancient document” BobC? And how comfortable are you with Section 1031 of S1867?
FYI, I came to the climate change debate via anti-totalitarianism because it is my view that the scare has been pushed by the UN (and others) as a vehicle for monolithic control.
Tallblokes situation however (as opposed to Mann’s), has more to do with Section 1031 than 2C warming by 2100 I think (or am I just near-hysterical, conspiratorial and nonsensical?).
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I would be interested in a US opinion here on what exactly is “US soil”?
It is my understanding that the US Federal Govt owns the soil under Washington DC, all the military installations including naval ports in the respective States and the Federal annexures: Pueto Rico, Guam etc (and Hawaii) but not States soil.
I’m also curious as to how and why the U.S. Department of Justice Criminal Division gets to assist in the prosecution of a search warrant (I think it was) when the investigation relates to what may be a “crime” carried out on British soil?
And why aren’t they investigating the possible fraudulent use of Federal funds by CRU while they are in Britain?
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Corporate Muscle –
http://stevescomments.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/national-guard-soldier-arrested-for-not-wanting-to-fire-on-american-citizens/
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CORP US
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/corp_us.htm
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Does beg some questions when some dirty work has to be done. Found this account on an OWS site where they were chatting about Kent State being a precedent:-
Not your average attitude survey.
10
Not for nothing are there fasci the wall of the debating chamber of the United States House of Representatives either side of the Speaker.
And the US national debt is owed to to someone (holding security).
10
Richard C [NZ],
I thought it odd the way the US flag is hung on the wall.It looks like a cross between a civil and military ensign. A bit Janus like.
Also in the picture is an obelisk and globe with an eagle perched on top. A big one of those can be seen erected in Canberra between Defence buidings on Russell Hill
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OK, (from the ‘Corp US’ link) the U.S. Department of Justice Criminal Division is an arm of (owned by) the Corporation of the UNITED STATES but “Technically, legally, or any other way you want to look at the matter, the corporate government of the UNITED STATES has no jurisdiction or authority in ANY State of the Union (the Republic) beyond the District of Columbia.
But they do exercise their pseudo jurisdiction or authority in ANY State of the Union and now it seems, in Great Britain. The British counterpart is the City of London Corporation. From About us:-
But I don’t see City of London Corporate muscle at work unless via Home Office:-
My thinking is that those threatened by 3.0 revelations (individuals in UK govt and US Fed govt but not Corp muscle) have pulled strings at the Home Office to get some action in view of 2.0.
These departments (British and US) seem to be free-range, UEA is in the county of Norfolk which is the jurisdiction of the Norfolk Constabulary but not the Metropolitan Police whose jurisdiction is greater London (but not City of London).
Will be hilarious if an internal UEA IT guy was the whistleblower – as I think is the case (but the “hacker” charade must be promulgated).
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The centralist agenda of the Home Office, resulting in the 1964 Police Act can be read about here:-
Britain’s police forces: forever removed from democratic control?
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Richard C {NZ]
“And the US national debt is owed to to someone (holding security).”
The interest on numbers made up of electrons in a banks computer called dollars/money are never credited to the borrower,only the principal is,so it is impossible unless one behaves like a Bank and creates ‘money’ out of thin air to return the electron numbers to balance the Banks computer records.For one to take the Banks laws into their own hands would be called counterfeiting.
As Lionel more or less points out it is the productivity of the nation that is used as surety for the National Debt.
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Re the D.C. and the rest of the land,I think a very good explanation is given here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LxY_H5V0Kw
“The Season of treason”
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And assets. From the ‘Corp muscle’ link:-
10
Corp US link sorry http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/corp_us.htm
10
Acts of Interpretation Act 1901 –
In any Act, unless the contrary intention appears:
(a) Australia or the Commonwealth means the Commonwealth of
Australia and, when used in a geographical sense, includes the
Territory of Christmas Island and the Territory of Cocos
(Keeling) Islands, but does not include any other external
Territory;
“They also pledged the unincorporated federal territories, national parks forests, birth certificates, and nonprofit organizations, as collateral against the federal debt. All has already been transferred as payment to the international bankers.”
I wonder if islands in the Torres Strait were pledged and who’s legal jurisdiction do they come under now?
Section 17 in a long winded way says that the whole land mass of Australia is deemed to be a sea and commerce/admiralty law is therefore legitimate.
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Acts of Interpretation Act 1901
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aia1901230.txt/cgi-bin/download.cgi/download/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aia1901230.txt
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Kevin, re #54.2.3.3.13. The quote from ‘Corp US’:-
Is in respect to the USA – not AU.
10
In not enough words i was just pointing out the similarity in Australia. There are a lot of islands missing from the geographical sense of the definition of the Commonwealth of Australia.
10
And this is worth a thought.If the Crown Corporation is Sovereign by right of holding title to Crown Colonies such as Australia, New Zealand and Canada then under the Governments Statutes who is the Crown or Sovereign? Remember, the Queen asks for permission to enter the City of London.
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Kevin, Re #54.2.3.3.1.7
NZ is a little different since (only recently) the Treaty of Waitangi has been honoured, viz. The Crown has the right to govern but sovereignty of the land is with Maori (in the Maori version – not so the Crown version, nuther story).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi
The Crown in that treaty is described this way in Wiki:-
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Next time a cop pulls me over I’ll just hand him my boat licence.
Acts of Interpretation Act 1901
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aia1901230.txt/cgi-bin/download.cgi/download/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aia1901230.txt
(3) Nothing in subsection (1) or (2) shall be taken as limiting the
operation that any Act had before the commencement of this section.
(4) In this section, coastal sea:
(a) in relation to Australia, means:
(i) the territorial sea of Australia; and
(ii) the sea on the landward side of the territorial sea of
Australia and not within the limits of a State or internal
Territory;
and includes the airspace over, and the sea-bed and subsoil
beneath, any such sea; and
(b) in relation to an external Territory, means:
(i) the territorial sea adjacent to the Territory; and
(ii) the sea on the landward side of the territorial sea adjacent to
the Territory and not within the limits of the Territory;
and includes the airspace over, and the sea-bed and subsoil
beneath, any such sea.
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Richard C [NZ]
I would like to see the definition of terms in the Maori contract.
In my view the original owners should not need a treaty. Signing one puts them under the jurisdiction of whatever the deceptive maker of the treaties terms were.
I’ve seen [ab]originals in Australia being deceived into thinking that they were given something fantastic called Native Title,but all they got was a form of Freehold which these days means bugger all.
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Re the Ship of State, Admiralty Law of the sea covering the land mass of the Commonwealth of Australia –
Amendments
25 Subsections 15B(1) to (3)
Repeal the subsections, substitute:
Coastal sea of Australia
(1) An Act is taken to have effect in, and in relation to, the
coastal sea of Australia as if that coastal sea were part of
Australia.
(2) A reference in an Act to Australia, or to the Commonwealth, is
taken to include a reference to the coastal sea of Australia.
Coastal sea of external Territory
(3) An Act that is in force in an external Territory is taken to
have effect in, and in relation to, the coastal sea of the
Territory as if that coastal sea were part of the Territory.
(3A) A reference in an Act to all or any of the external Territories
(whether or not one or more particular Territories are referred to)
is taken to include a reference to the coastal sea of any Territory
to which the reference relates.
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Lionel Griffith –
You say,
“The money they think they control has no value if nothing is produced to give it value. They need the productive individual to keep on being productive. The productive individual doesn’t need anything from them besides simply being left alone to live and work as he sees fit and to keep what he produces by his work. To the degree the individual is interfered with is the degree that he is no longer able to be productive.”
Therefore when one gets a ‘loan’ from a bank the only thing of value transacted is the ‘borrowers’ signature promising the proceeds of their productivity. I will agree with that.
And when taxes reach 100% of productivity, government ceases. I can’t wait for that day to come.
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I like these sentiments –
DIGGER SMITH by C.J. Dennis
XIII. A SQUARE DEAL
“Dreamin’?” I sez to Digger Smith.
“Buck up, ole sport, an’ smile.
Ain’t there enough uv joy to-day
To drive the bogey man away
An’ make reel things worth while?
A bloke would think, to see you stare,
There’s visions on the ‘ill-tops there.”
“Dreamin’,” sez Digger Smith. “Why not?
An’ there is visions too.
An’ when I get ’em sorted out,
An’ strafe that little bogey, Doubt,
I’ll start me life all new.
Oh, I ain’t crook; but packed in ‘ere
Is thoughts enough to last a year.
“I’m thinkin’ things,” sez Digger Smith.
“I’m thinkin’ big an’ fine
Uv Life an’ Love an’ all the rest,
An’ wot is right an’ wot is best,
An’ ‘ow much will be mine.
Not that I’m wantin’ overmuch:
Some work, some play, an’ food an’ such.”
“See ‘ere,” I sez. “You ‘ark to me.
I’ve done some thinkin’ too.
An’ this ‘ere land, for wot yeh did,
Owes some few million solid quid
To fightin’ blokes like you.
So don’t be too damn modest or
Yeh’ll get less than yeh’re lookin’ for.”
“Money?” sez Digger. “Loot?” sez ‘e.
“Aw, give that talk a rest!
I’m sick uv it. I didn’t say
That I was thinkin’ all uv pay
But wot was right an’ best.
An’ that ain’t in the crazy game
Uv grabbin’ wealth an’ chasin’ fame.
“Do you think us blokes Over There,
When things was goin’ strong,
Was keepin’ ledgers day be day
An’ reck’nin’ wot the crowd would pay?
Pull off! Yeh got it wrong.
Do you think all the boys gone West
Wants great swank ‘eadstones on their chest?
“You coots at ‘ome ‘as small ideer
Uv wot we think an’ feel.
We done our bit an’ seen it thro’,
An’ all that we are askin’ you
Is jist a fair, square deal.
We want this land we battled for
To settle up — an’ somethin’ more.
“We want the land we battled for
To be a land worth while.
We’re sick uv greed, an’ ‘ate, an’ strife,
An’ all the mess that’s made uv life.”…
‘E stopped a bit to smile.
“I got these thoughts Out There becos
We learned wot mateship reely was.”
. . . . . .
The ‘ills be’ind the orchard trees
Was showin’ misty blue.
The ev’nin’ light was growin’ dim;
An’ down I sat ‘longside uv ‘im,
An’ done some dreamin’ too.
I dreams uv war; an’ wot is paid
By blokes that went an’ blokes that stayed.
I dreams uv honour an’ reward,
An’ ‘ow to pay a debt.
For partin’ cash, an’ buyin’ farms,
An’ fitting chaps with legs an’ arms
Ain’t all — there’s somethin’ yet.
There’s still a solid balance due;
An’ now it’s up to me an’ you.
There’s men I know ain’t yet woke up,
Or reckernized that debt —
Proud men ‘oo wouldn’t take yeh down
Or owe their grocer ‘arf-a-crown-
They ain’t considered, yet,
There’s somethin’ owin’ — to the dead,
An’ Diggers live for more than bread.
The ‘ills be’ind the orchard trees
Jist caught the settin’ sun.
A bloke might easy think that there,
‘Way back be’ind the range somewhere,
Where streaks uv sunlight run,
There was a land, swep’ clear uv doubt,
Where men finds wot they dreams about.
. . . . . . .
“Beauty,” sez Digger, sudden-like,
“An’ love, an’ kindliness;
The chance to live a clean, straight life,
A dinkum deal for kids an’ wife:
A man needs nothin’ less…
Maybe they’ll get it when I go
To push up daisies. I dunno.”
“Dreamin’,” sez Digger Smith. “Why not?
There’s visions on the hill.”…
Then I gets up an’ steals away,
An’ leaves ‘im with the dyin’ day,
Dreamin’ an’ doubtin’ still…
Cobber, it’s up to me an’ you
To see that ‘arf ‘is dream comes true.
10
Unfortunately, those who preferred servitude fled to Canada where they were known as united Empire Loyalists, and quickly formed the English-speaking business, social and political elite. To this day, Canada’s political institutions are much closer to the British model than Australia’s.
I was born in England, but consider myself no-one’s subject. I am my own person and resent being told by anyone what is acceptable to think and believe. That’s one reason, other than the obvious fallacies, why I don’t go along with the whole CAGW issue.
10
Fled to Canada to avoid being killed by the freedom fighters…
10
[…] commentary at WUWT, Climate Audit, and JoNova: Now, more than ever, all the people that value their freedom need to stick together. […]
10
Looks like it’s war. Lock and load …
http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2011/12/15/skeptic-blogger-raided-by-the-police-because-he-was-sent-a-link-to-the-climategate-2-release/
Pointman
10
One thing seems certain; if the press wasn’t paying attention to the Climategate II before, they will be now.
P.S. Ah Jo, implement plan delta eagle please?!?!?
10
Delta eagle, Roger! Lol
10
When it comes to using the IRS to intimidate opponents, Nixon was a piker compared to Clinton.
10
[…] Jo Nova makes a great point — highlighted — from the Washington Examiner has this story: […]
10
FOIA.zip and the first file from 2009, needs to be spread all over the place.
I’m sure it has already. These intrusions and inquiries prove it’s importance!
Email it to friends and yourself. Setup GMail, hotmail etc. (Email servers get backed up by sys admins, not to mention duplicates all over the place sitting in email folders and on RAID drives), explain what it is and why it’s important. Communal File servers are handy. Copy it to USB Drives. Burn it to CD/DVD.
10
All this proves to me is the following:
1) When a member of the public wants information, their course of action is an FOI request.
2) When the hockey stick team wants information, their course of action is to send over a bunch of cops to turn someones house over.
3) Team catastrafaria has lost the debate of public opinion(which was where they chose to take the debate), due to their wanton activist bias
4) They have lost, they are dangerous, but to resort to these tactics really proves they have lost on all fronts.
This can only be an act of extreme desperation on their part.
If Tallbloke ends up in court over something said or done regarding gorebal warming, many people will rally behind him, and it will become yet another disaster for team catastrafaria. He would be a political prisoner if convicted.
As I said earlier. If we want information, we get FOIs, if the global warming nutters want information, they get a team of cops to break doors down.
I think anyone with any sense of objectivity will see whats really going on. Not tristan, obviously.
Just like 10:10, an inconvenient truth, AR4, etc, these guys are the masters of their own demise.
10
Yes but they can do a lot of damage on their way down and out.
10
It Might also be time for some to take a crash course in protecting themselves…..
Some OS’s to start with…
Security Based
Firewalls
Some may benefit from encrypted hard drives and backups. Go read!
“OOhhh, I diiidddnnn’t knnnooow” is NOT protection and neither is a poorly installed, secured and/or maintained Window$ based PC!
10
Oh, And don’t think for a minute that protection lies only with technology. People MUST, maintain quality tax and business records. Stay up to to date with Official obligations, Fees/Permits etc. The Thompsons proved what can happen if this lot get their claws into you.
I’m sure TallBloke didn’t think he was being lined up.
The Thompsons, Tallbloke, JeffID and a variety of Journal Editors/Journalists are examples of what is evolving.
Don’t allow yourself to be the “one on the edge of the heard” that gets picked off!
10
This all makes the construction of the National Broadband Network look all that much more sinister.
10
wes george
December 15, 2011 at 9:24 pm · Reply
“MemoryV, that’s the sort of over the top freaking out I think Janama and I think is tactically unbecoming….”
…….
Unfortunately I think MemoryV is correct.
“They” are into power. “They” will use any means to grab that power and the “Left” has been a very handy tool so far. But just like Lenin turned on the Russian Intelligentsia after the revolution when they were no longer needed and were seen as a threat to his consolidation of power, you can be sure that the Mann’s and Jone’s and other University types could easily find themselves tossed to the wolves if it was needed for “Them” to remain in power.
“They” have no more honor than a pack of rats.
10
Corrinne N,
NOW What did rats do to deserve this kind of smear!
10
Corrinne,
After reading the new information in Jo’s update this morning from the Washington Examiner it does indeed now seem that Obama’s DOJ, under the corrupt leadership of Eric Holder, is truly out to capture the remaining Climategate emails before they can be released.
As pointman pointed out a while ago here, the Climategate email hacker’s plan is to release the emails slowly, whenever the Warmists get together to advance their plans for an authoritarian one world government as revealed at Durban. But it appears that he’s probably set up a trip wire so that if he is captured, dead or alive, the whole load of the remaining climategate emails gets dumped into the WWW automatically.
So it’s unlikely that the DOJ can stop the release of the remaining Climategate emails, the best they can hope for is to trip an early release at a convenient time as a form of damage control, rather than allow the Climategate liberator the strategic advantage of releasing the emails timed to do the most political devastation to the climate church.
But it’s a very high risk operation, because busting down bloggers’ doors in the middle of the night to clone their laptops is not a good look. And what if they actually catch the Climategate liberators? Finally, the skeptical community will have a real “direct action” heroes. If they were put to trial they’d be open source martyrs as well. It would shift the whole gestalt of climate skepticism toward something more like a popular climate revolution.
And what’s the DOJ to do if it trips the early release of the remaining Climategate emails? Forbid their further distribution? Prosecute bloggers and ISPs who posts them online? Pull Fox News license when they try to report on the new emails? Ban books on Amazon? If the DOJ wanted to elevate Climategate and the cause of the skeptics to the most sympathetic and highest public profile possible this would be the way to go about it.
So either the DOJ and Obama are incompetent or they have a much more convoluted agenda. Personally, I think Obama is incompetent, but what if…
It’s possible that Obama has been advised that the third tranche of the Climategate emails will connect the scientists directly to power politics and big money in the US. If so, the Climategate leakers might well time the release of CG 3.0 to effect the US elections. The corruption of the Obama administration, in particular the DOE and the DOJ, are going to be big topics in 2012. Maybe Eric Holder figures it’s best to trip the wire now, in order to get Climategate done and dusted on Obama’s schedule rather than the leakers’.
or….
Its possible that Obama has thrown the political deadweight of the bad advice he’s received on environmental matters under the bus. The eco-lobby are now just another rent-seeking minority which will cost him votes come Nov 2012. But he has to pander to their emotional needs to keep their spirits up just enough so they turn out for the vote. No mandatory voting in the US means even rusted-on supporters can stay home on election day if they feel disrespected. And the American Warmists have been deeply dissed by Obama over and over again. He talks their talk, but won’t sign most of the bills they want, because he knows they’re political cyanide.
Maybe, sending the DOJ calvary after the Climategate moles is something of a double game for Obama. Obama’s strategists planning for this second term might well wish for a much weakened climate lobby in 2013…The Tallbloke raid reassures his warmist base supporters, pisses off a few skeptical activists – who were never going to vote for him anyway – and in the end nothing much comes of it…. Or if the DOJ forces the online spill of the rest of the Climategate emails, they hope to time it so that it will only give the eco-lobby a cold shower, and be stale news by Nov 2012. .
10
There was absolutely no need to directly hack into the mail server. Internet traffic and phone calls are continuously monitored by the intelligence services.
10
Mann publicly accuses Tallbloke of hacking his emails:
http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/12/wow-warmist-michael-mann-points-us-to.html
This should be VERY interesting.
10
Given that Mann also believes we are funded by Big Oil and King Coal, (see the various CG2 emails) I tend to now think that the CAGW are actually delusional, actually believe the BS they peddle, and another example of group think. This means that I don’t regard CAGW as a fraud, or some conspiracy but simple, unadulterated stupidity dressed up in acadamic regalia. The realy scientifically bright among us always end up working alone or in the private sector.
10
OK, who is funding “skeptics”? I doubt Jo Nova keeps afloat on donations from you guys…
10
a warning to us all to have up to date computer security and daily backups of our hard drives
10
Is there anyone left who doesn’t believe Obama is anything but a petty thug?
10
Yeah, my best friend down in Missouri, who is in for a Lot of pain 🙁
10
Otter,
Yeah! The question was rhetorical. I know a few as well. Apparently the sun only shines on those who really want to be illuminated.
10
I think it shows that they believe we are in communication with FOIA. They told Tallbloke that he was not a suspect but ALL of the internet information would be available at wordpress. The only thing they can get from tallbloke is the potential communication with FOIA.
Without any special knowledge of an unseen blogger in the UK, I’m sure there was none.
I finally linked permanently to this blog. I’m really terribly lazy about linking.
10
That would be their fondest slam-dunk hope. However, DOJ is more likely trying to build a map of the skeptical hacker community applying the same template they would use on any organisation they wish to penetrate. Naturally, the liberators chose to release the data through people would have no relic links to them. But the DOJ must hope to pick up a round about trail that leads to someone who does have links.
Or consider that the liberators must be surfing out there somewhere in the online community, maybe even posting comments that contain inadvertent clues…for instance what if an anonymous commenter pointed out a detail in a Climategate 1.0 email which could only really make sense in the context of information yet to be released in Climategate 2.0. Bingo. The cops might have someone who read CG 2.0 before its public release and was a bit trigger happy with the “post comment” digit.
Another thing the Tallbloke raid — and its belated timing — might indicate is that the police have already tried to infiltrate related tech-savvy communities by other means, through chatrooms or discussion boards, CCT, maybe even following POIs to their local and shouting a drink or two, (loose lips sink ships) and got nowhere, so they’re now forced to take daylight actions with considerable PR risks, but they’ve calculate the price is worth it.
10
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-16202580
10
I think you’re on the right trail, Wes.
The one thing they will be hoping to get is a full email address list and cache of Tallbloke’s emails. They are probably hoping to find a local cache of all this on his computer.
This information can then be fed into a network mapping program, so you can see who is the feeders of information and who is the receivers. I have seen this done on the climategate emails, and it clearly shows Michael Mann and Phil Jones as the major centres of distribution.
They probably chose Tallbloke because of his location (ie, outside the US) and because he is not as well known as some of the others.
It’s pretty clear from the paper trail that the action was instigated from the US and not from the Norfolk investigations. The Norfolk connection was probably to make it appear as though it was part of the climategate investigations, but searching 2 years after the fact is useless in terms of computer forensics.
I’d say this has very little to do with climategate and very much to do with trying to gain insights on the skeptics community, with -perhaps- hoping they’ll find communications with the shadowy FOIA identity. But someone who has gone to the lengths they have isn’t going to get caught up with a stupid email ‘hey tallbloke, I’m going to link these stolen emails we discussed on your blog. If you want to discuss, call me on 555-1235456. Kthxbye’.
No, it would seem that someone much higher up the foodchain is feeling uncomfortable about something. That could be the collapsing of the carbon market, the failure of durban, or just perhaps fear about a smoking-gun style email.
Whether it is related to the unreleased encrypted emails we’ll see.
10
Welcome DownUnder Jeff.
Love your work 🙂
10
It amuses me when people think cloning a hard drive before handing it back is soemhow good. It is not, it just allows police or anyone else behind the scenes to roam through any information on the disc with no danger of their intrusion into private data and knowledge being detected by later forensic examination, for all intents and purposes that copy is theirs to do as they wish.
Why do you think the Age prevented any such attempt at removal or cloning if that was even thought of.?
Tallbloke was the soft target, the key to all sorts of peripheral information that might come in handy, in a far reaching investigation, and who knows who will be allowed to look at or use his private information.
Why do you think that Mann and the Age fight tooth and nail against access? Existence of crime or potential crime is the excuse in their eyes for others to look at their work world and apply their standards and ethics.
Tallbloke should take the same precautions and ensure access to the material or data on the cloned disc is court supervised by way of a court injunction and all access recorded lest unintended information later come to light in unusual places.
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Anyone wanting to keep info should always save it direct to an external USB drive and *not* touch the internal hard drive i.e. C: drive .
Data forensics software can reliably recover up to the last 20 deletes of information of any hard disk area – so even if you think you have deleted it from the hard disk, it can be recovered.
Physically shredding a USB drive is one way to kill the data on it.
Pass it on.
10
The fact that you recorded to a USB hard drive will be apparent to any forensic examiner.
Completely, totally and utterly untrue. No method can properly recover overwritten files from a hard drive. In theory it is possible using a Magnetic Force Microscope but it has never been demonstrated successfully.
Forensic software can only recover files that have been deleted but not overwritten.
Properly overwriting files with pseudorandom data or ones and zeroes will delete data securely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html
http://eraser.heidi.ie/
http://www.dban.org/
If you are security conscious you should totally avoid Windows and switch to Linux.
Linux has inbuilt encryption and secure file wiping as default.
If you are paranoid you can run Linux from a USB drive or Live CD without making any changes to the hard drive. All data is kept in the memory and deleted when the computer is switched off.
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Tallbloke’s computers were borrowed because the plod could not investigate Climategate emails without copies obtained in a verified way.
The real purpose of the DoJ is to investigate Team offenders and their conduct as efficiently summarized by Tallboke, then to prosecute as needed.
Happy Christmas. The glass is half full.
10
The trolls are in overdrive I see. Lots of words and totally content free. They actually don’t realise that a strategic blunder has just been made but more importantly, we’ve got the moral high ground now. We’ll use it too.
Pointman
10
Jo, the good Lord (Monckton) is putting a multi-juristictional brief together to prosecute the relevant “scientists” for fraud.
Is it too much to hope for that there is sufficient evidence to be able to prosecute the CSRIRO activists?
10
I have already brought the issue of CSIRO & BoM personnel involvement (CG2.0) up with my local MP and the matter has been forwarded to Greg Hunt MP who is aware of ‘things’.
10
DO you really trust Greg Hunt?
I don’t. I suspect he’d pass an ETS in a hearbeat if he had the chance.
10
Ooohh Goody. Can’t wait to see Monkton in court!! Wonder how he’ll do in the counter suit??
Sadly, its probably just hot air and bluster. Although….. has he started asking for donations to a fighting fund I wonder??
10
Catamon:
I comgratulate you on your bluff. And I expect to congratulate Chris Monckton on his slaughter in court of Mann, Bradley, Hughes, Jones and Briffa over their use of ‘hide the decline’.
Richard
10
Hardly a bluff RSC. The entertainment value of a halfway decent barrister getting Monkton on the stand and investigating his “credibility” as any kind of witness in this matter would be enormous. Hopefully they would do him slowly, with lots of referencing to his sources and assertions during his public performances.
Having read the linked article
I strongly suspect bluff and bluster on the part of Dah Monkers. Maybe trying to keep up his public profile?? Hope he gets it up somewhere though and gets hit for costs.
10
Catamon:
It seems you are as clueless as the Tristran troll.
Monckton’s “credibility” is not relevant. All the court would test is whether his accusations of fraud are – or are not – correct. And there are several major frauds in climate science that are incontrovertible in terms of available evidence.
One example is ‘hide the decline’ which is blatant scientific fraud of precisely the same kind as the Piltdown Man. In each case parts of two different pieces of evidence were selected and stitched together to provide a misleading indication. This is the worst type of scientific fraud, and there is no doubt of any kind that Mann, Bradley and Hughes are guuilty of it.
Furthermore, there is clear documentary evidence that they used publication of that fraud as justification for obtaining additionalresearch funds. Hence, there is no doubt that they are also guilty of financial fraud.
Of course, and as you say, when the evidence of guilt is so clear and conclusive as in this case then a defence barrister will attempt to ‘muddy the water’ with irrelevant attack on the “credibility” of the accuser. But the court will reject such an attempt.
Simply, you are confusing troll behaviour on blogs (which you practice) with evidence (which interests a court of law). But a court regards troll behaviour with the same disdain as most readers of this blog.
Richard
10
Oh Dear RSC, if this is what your pinning your hopes on:
You may want to do a little reading on the subject.
Actually, its not, and they weren’t. Mazing how this crap gets perpetuated over the net by the credible isn’t it??
Barrister may not even want to waste time on examining Monktons credibility if this is going to be the basis of the proposed case, and i for one think that would be a great loss to the worlds entertainment industry.
10
Catamon:
Merely saying you do not like to admit the truth does not ‘cut it’.
I explained why ‘hide the decvline’ is precisely the same type of scientific fraud as the Piltdown Man. IT IS.
Now, face reality and apologise then CLEAR OFF!
Richard
10
No RSC, its not. That’s because its not a hoax.
I’m sorry for you if that doesn’t fit the Conspiracy theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming that seems to be the general position behind this idea of Monktons to run a fraud case, but there you have it.
Still, i really hope he runs it.
And stop shout shouting at me to clear off you obnoxious little oik.
10
Catamon,
It seems that you also need that schooner of your favourite cask Moselle.
Say, welcome back.
We, er, missed you over the last 7/8 days since that ‘faux pas’ of yours with Desal that went without a reply!
We were beginning to think another one had been driven away by facts.
Tony.
10
Catamon:
I recognise from your posts that thinking is difficult for you, and you overcome that problem by parroting nonsense from warmist blogs. However, in this case such parroting merely shows you are a fool.
I explained
Your saying the fraud is “not a hoax” does not alter the fact that ‘hide the decline’ was – and is – a fraud.
Furthermore, I am proud to be called an “oik” by a troll who is so cowardly that he/she/it/they hides behind a pseudonym.
I repeat, apologise for your attempting to disrupt this thread with a ‘red herring’ then CLEAR OFF! Anonymous disruptors are not wanted here or any other serious blog.
Richard
10
why thankyou dearest.
Having a life outside of the EC mate, but i do come back when i feel like it. On Desal oh omniscience one on all things to do with electrons, i also like the emu flats wind farm they put in to offset the emmisions.
From this blog?? Nah, it keeps me laughing, and on the very odd occasion actually has some interesting links.
Off on hols soon, will you still miss me??
10
I must admit that I used to think RSC was a smart bloke, until I read his opinion that “hide the decline” was up there with the piltdown man deception. After that it was hard to take RSC seriously.
10
John Brookes:
Your opinion of my smartness is of no interest to anybody.
Please explain any difference you think exists between the ‘hide the decline’ and ‘Piltdown Man’ frauds.
In each case, the fraud consisted of selecting information from each of two different pieces of scientific evidence then stitching the selected parts together to form a construct that was presented to the scientific community with the intention of providing a misleading indication.
I await your smart reply with bated breath.
Richard
10
Monckton will win in court because simply he is RIGHT and Mann et al are GUILTY! If the justice system isnt hijacked by terrorists inside the Gov.
10
I think he will lose IF it ever gets that far. Unfortunately it probably wont and is most likely just a promotional exercise for the Viscount that his fanboi’s and goils are taking far to seriously.
10
Catamon:
As a method to deflect this thread from its subject (I will address that subject below), you started this irrelevant nonsense about Chris Monckton et al. seeking a court case against the Team.
At first you implied Chris could not win such a case and said:
When I showed that Monckton et al. have a certain win you resorted to bluster, and now you suggest
Firstly, your wrong-thinking is not relevant.
Secondly, Chris Monckton has wanted to take the Team to court on this since he and some others won a UK High Court case that defined Al Gore’s sci-fi movie to be “political propaganda”. As a result of that court case it is illegal to show the movie (tited ‘An Inconvenient Truth’) in UK state schools unless the showing is accompanied by an explanation that the movie is political propaganda together with explanations of 11 specific scientific exaggerations and falsehoods contained in it.
I and others have discouraged Chris from taking legal action against the Team until a rock-solid case could be presented. As a result of the ‘Climategate 2’ emails, such a case is now available.
Several specific examples of fraud (both scientific and financial) by the Team can now be proved with direct documentary evidence showing the frauds being constructed by the fraudsters using their own words. One clear example is ‘hide the decline’. It is now known that
(a) the ‘decline’ was hidden from after 1940 and not only after 1960 as previously thought (i.e. most – not only much – of the ‘overlap’ between the data sets shows they do not agree),
(b) the ‘decline’ was deliberately hidden,
and
(c) the deliberate hiding was to mislead with the stated clear intention of furthering “the cause”.
The court can also be shown that other clear frauds were perpetrated by the Team. But the Team can wait until the court case to discover which those are.
So, Chris Monckton has been ‘let off the leash’ to pursue the case he has wanted to pursue since he won the case against UK Government concerning the showing of Al Gore’s sci-fi movie in UK schools.
Reality is a bummer for AGW-alarmists, isn’t it?
Richard
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Just had a GREAT idea!! If Monkton is putting a brief together, maybe he can use Plimer’s new book ” How to Get Expelled from School: A Guide to Climate Change for Pupils, Parents & Punters.” to help outline his case.
It’s got to be THE FINAL NAIL surely??
There is an extract from it in the OO today:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/glacial-chill-ebbs-and-flows/story-e6frg6z6-1226224280587
Now, in it he makes the authoritative statement that:
Wondered about this so looked it up on the intertubes:
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/siple.html
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/graphics/siple-gr.gif
So actually, according to the Siple core data the CO2 concentration in 1900 was approx 297 ppm, not the 330 ppm Plimer quotes in his book. Which makes his next quoted statement:
Look somewhat dubious maybe??
Do you think Plimer could get done for fraud for presenting a book, aimed at the kiddies, that purports to be factual, that has such gross errors. Could he have an agenda and being actually willfully misleading??
Alternatively, he could just be a prat with little or no idea of what he’s talking about??
00
Catamon, fact-checking is not allowed on these boards.
[liar] ED
00
Sorry, forgot!! I’ll try to do better, really!!!
[and you should] ED
00
Catamon:
Plimmer’s book has no relevance of any kind to the subject of this thread. Clearly, you have attacked it as a method to try to deflect from the subject of this thread which is an embarrassment to the AGW cause.
Anyway, Plimmer is right and your ‘cut and paste’ from elsewhere merely shows you are an ignorant idiot being used to promote a false agenda.
Clear off!
Richard
00
References, evidence? Or spluttering bluster and froth at the mouth abuse??
And you seemed so polite??
00
Catamon:
I am being more than “polite” to an offensive troll who (above) has demonstrated he/she/it/they is a liar operating with the sole purpose of deflecting the thread from its subject which he/she/they/it knows is embarrasing to the AGW scam he/she/it/they promotes.
I repeat. Clear off!
Richard
00
Catamon I’m not sure whether this was deliberate or accidental misdirection, but if you had researched the Siple records you should have noticed that there have been many studies and interpretations of the data over the years. The figure you quoted of approx 297 ppm in 1900 (you say Plimer’s book is quoted as stating 330ppm), was from Neftel et al. (1985) which estimated the ice in the samples from a depth of 111.0-112.0 metres. which was iced laid down in 1812 which provided information to estimate air enclosed during the period 1883-1905. In their study they estimated CO2 at 297ppm (the figure you quoted). How they estimate this is detailed in their paper.
Since then there have been many other researchers who have re-analysed the samples and I haven’t checked what each of them came up with, so I am just dealing with this matter.
You quite correctly quoted The Australian article as follows:
“Antarctic ice core (Siple) shows that there were 330 parts per million of carbon dioxide in the air in 1900; Mauna Loa Hawaiian measurements in 1960 show that the air then had 260ppm carbon dioxide.”
However I believe there has simply been a basic typographical error in The Australian. It should have read:
“Antarctic ice core (Siple) shows that there were 330 parts per million of carbon dioxide in the air in 1960; Mauna Loa Hawaiian measurements in 1960 show that the air then had 260ppm carbon dioxide.”
This makes a lot more sense to compare the Siple 1960 ice core record to the Mauna Loa 1960 record. As you will see, based the Neftel et al. (1985) research you referenced, the CO2 ppm at 1960 appears to be somewhere around 312 ppm – 328 ppm. Of course since 1985 there have been many other interpretations of the Siple ice cores so it is quite reasonable for Plimer to be quoting a figure of 330 ppm in 1960 though I don’t know what particular research he has referenced, it is pretty close to the figure in the paper you referenced.
Plimer’s point is of course that CO2 readings from one source in the world, Mauna Loa, is not representative of what is really happening all around the whole world.
Though I did notice that even though you believe Plimer had deliberately or otherwise used a figure of 330ppm instead of approx 297 ppm CO2 in 1900, you didn’t attempt to explain how there could be a reduction in atmospheric CO2 between 1900 and 1960 which was a period of significant industrialisation and deforestation. This would not suite the catastrophic global warming due to man-made carbon emissions theory would it?
On another point which goes against CAGW theory, if you do further research on the Siple ice core records, you will see that the mean annual temperature over the ice core history ranges from a low of -41 C to a high of -27 C and guess what? The higher temperature does not correlate to higher atmospheric CO2.
00
Hold on a second. Keeling chose Mauna Loa because it is representative of a global background level of CO2. It does accurately represent trends of several months or more over the whole globe at that altitude. As long as the measurement is taken in a sea breeze then you can be sure the CO2 measured isn’t coming from the volcano itself.
We know CO2 is higher closer to sea level just as you expect from the higher density of all gases, and it is higher closer to vegetation and cities of course. This doesn’t disprove the usefulness of Mauna Loa as a measurement of CO2 at the altitudes where the low humidity makes it a greater contributor than water vapour to the greenhouse effect.
Admittedly there is an inherent madness here. Concentration, like temperature, is an intensive quantity, not an extensive quantity, so there is also no technically correct definition for “global average concentration”. It is just one of the little insanities that we overlook in order to make some kind of debate and progress possible. Treat it as an indicator which would get more accurate if you had sensors everywhere.
00
Well, he probably hasn’t caught up on the new and mysterious concept called “mixing”.
Santa, Santa, over here!! Are you serious?? typo, so all is well?
Why would i? I dont think there has been.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/#mlo_full
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/graphics/siple-gr.gif
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Jaymez, don’t stretch things too far. The Mauna Loa record is almost continuous since it started in the 1950’s. It shows no wild variations – just a steadily increasing rate of increase, overlaid with an annual variation. This is “inconvenient”, so Plimer focuses on CO2 levels before the Mauna Loa record.
By doing so he has some wriggle room to create a narrative he likes. That is, a narrative that does not blame CO2 for our current warming.
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John Brookes #76.3.3.3 you say:-
Yes it is “inconvenient” because temperature has not been doing same.
I think too, that if you look up the origins of the CO2 series (the ‘Keeling Curve’) used to initialize ALL the GCMs, you will find that in order to effect a (semi) credible splice at ’58/’59 of two disparate datasets that the Law Dome series was subject to a rather radical “adjustment”. What the ML part of the combined LD-ML series does then is to provide the ‘hockey stick’ up-tick 2H 20C to justify pinning blame on human emissions.
Don’t you think this is somewhat bogus science John?
The problem with the LD-ML series even if we did accept it, is that if you plot the underlying quadratic of HadCRUT3 (the trajectory of warming minus oscillations) established by Scafetta 2010 and similarly by CRU against the Keeling curve on a normalized graph, the HadCRUT3 trend LEADS the CO2 curve by about 25 years at the start of the Foster and Rahmstorf 2011 contrivance – inconvenient?
Excel workbook and plot here:-
https://www.dropbox.com/home#:::85176273
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And,
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Plimer writes a book, and the Oz faithfully gives it exposure. As Catamon points out, Plimer’s tome will be riddled with errors.
But it doesn’t matter – as long as there is hot air coming from the “skeptics” camp, right wing politicians will have an excuse not to act, and that is what it is all about.
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John Brookes
Please explain the relevance to the subject of this thread of any of your posts on this thread.
Your failure to provide the explanation would be a declaration to impartial observers that you – like the Tristran and Catamon trolls – are desperate to avoid any discussion of the subject of this thread.
And no excuses for inaction in response to the AGW-scare are needed. Two years ago the COP in Copenhagen decided that no “action” of kinds you want will occur (see my post below at #89). That decision is a blessing for the entire world.
So, please
1. explain the relevance to this thread of any of your posts to this thread,
2. stop trying to deflect this thread from discussing its subject
and
3. take your silly conspiracy theories elsewhere.
Richard
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As I indicated previously I do not think that police here can seize computers unless they have good evidence that an offence has been committed and they can justify the need to secure evidence contained in the computers. See here http://www.theaustralian.com.au/media/the-age-newspaper-raided-in-hacking-probe/story-e6frg996-1226223462075 where the police believe a crime has been committed by journalists but the court ordered the computers to be returned ie the police did not have the right to remove the items.
I believe this sets a precedence for bloggers to refuse to hand over anything unless ordered by a court.
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@cementafriend
>” … the court ordered the computers to be returned <
And we know the disks were not cloned in the interim because ? …
Also, I suspect that if FOIA is ever found, the charges against him will be done under some anti-terrorism cloak so that any trial will be carried out "in camera" (to preserve national security, of course)
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[…] Jo Nova: Tallbloke’s computer seized, Jeff ID threatened in Climategate retaliation: It’s intimidation […]
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Our corrupt governments –
http://www.youtube.com/user/aodscarecrow?gl=AU&hl=en-GB#p/c/1685A88BA921ED3E/0/BO5i9hEcd2Q
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[…] an astounding invasion of privacy, a blogger has been raided by police. Who is to be next? Tallbloke’s computer seized, Jeff ID threatened in Climategate retaliation: It’s intimid… I have tried all my life to leave the place better than I found it. But there are 7 […]
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The tactic by the CACC and other trolls on one UK blog today was to smear tallbloke with theft allegations and to intimidate other posters with claims they’ll be next.
Looks to me as if these are the last days of GISS et. al. Pompeii.
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An Information Security perspective on the raids
– by someone who has read both too much and too little about infosec.
—Trust
People who are put in important and sensitive positions are either highly trusted, highly monitored, or both.
This presents a new possibility for the origins of Climategate (and you heard it here first folks). What if the Team’s scientists’ communications were being monitored by the UK government or by the Big Green puppetmasters the entire time, just to make sure they weren’t straying from the path or leaking anything damaging? In other words, the FOIA character is the UK government attempting to defuse the situation now that they realise the error of their ways, whilst of course publicly toeing the Big Green party line. It’s an interesting idea which may not stand scrutiny if I think about it much more, so enjoy it while it lasts.
—Perimeter
Consider also the strategy of perimeter security. The Team have had a perimeter fence around their Scientific Basis mantra for a long time. Setting aside UEA and Penn State’s physical security, the information perimeter consisted of two main fronts: the science front and the political front. Their “scientists” can put pressure on journal editors to act as gatekeepers, can bootstrap their own members into lead author positions where lead authors got to choose the other writers, and of course by redefining the peer review process. On the political front they have funding, protection against official inquiries, and a compliant media. This was their perimeter. Evidence that is not specifically permitted is denied. Public criticism that is not specifically neutered is suppressed.
Perimeter security is generally good value for money. It is a place to use static defences and so can be cheap as long as your perimeter is quite tight, and it is an effective strategy… as long as nobody breaches your perimeter. When a breach on one front happens you have to have something else as a backup or you are screwed. When FOIA2009 breached the science front, any attempt to ask the science questions it raised had to come through the political front, thus the inquiry process was greenwashed in a similar way to a network virus scanner disinfecting an email before it reaches you.
—Interpreting “TPS”
It is possible that this first set of data seizure notices is the beginning of a trend, which I might tentatively label as Tallbloke Poppy Syndrome – the tendency of freelance writers who are far too successful in facilitating proper scientific scrutiny to be cut down in stature as a way of intimidating the silent majority into asking less questions.
Is it then possible that The Team has just expanded their perimeter? There is now a third front which needs to be secured – the blogosphere. RealClimate was clearly not enough to act as a distraction by operating a flashing neon-lit cathedral of science theocracy. They are taking the front line closer to their enemy and as a result are vastly extending the size of the front. The number of blogs which will need to be intimidated is large and will only grow as a reaction. The Team must know this. Therefore expanding the front into blogland is a highly costly exercise in perimeter security. So costly that it suggests to me only a few possibilities:
A) This is not part of a perimeter security plan and this hypothesis is false.
B) The perimeter has been expanded at great cost because they have something they feel is very valuable and worth protecting from increasingly successful attacks.
You can tell a few things about an adversary by where and how they spend their security budget. I think we can say that this new turn of affairs confirms that the Team view blogs as capable of growing into an effective threat against the globalist carbon tax agenda, if some key blogs are not already at that stage.
Possible Way Forward
So a couple of things to watch out for.
* Pointman’s reaction seems a good one for those running blogs; create a many-headed hydra that cannot be silenced by cutting off one head, by using multiple operators in different countries. Data can optionally be mirrored into these hot-backup sites to preserve insights, context, and chronology of the debate.
* Our main advantage is that we do not have to operate in secret (indeed we cannot operate in secret if science is to win) and there are far more of us than them. Spend effort to mitigate the harm of a data seizure and takedown notice, and maximise the cost to your adversary to do so, rather than trying to prevent these from ever happening. On the other hand, being decentralised, we cannot use perimeter security strategies, so we must use active security and everyone must be vigilant.
* Blog owners may want to have key-swap deals to each other’s hot backup sites, so making them trusted partners that can take over running the blog if you are taken down. With our numbers probably someone else random will simply start up in your place as an act of defiance, but a backup-swap deal preserves your user-generated content too. Tell everybody you have such a backup deal, but not who the deal is with.
* Beware of social engineering and griefers. Spamming, flooding, trolling, and agent provocateurs may be used to disrupt the site, drive away visitors, provoke internal divisions, and lure the blogger and regular commentators into accepting a belief or proposal that would otherwise be unacceptable.
* You can’t hide behind a moniker. Your real life identity will be traced from Internet use, and your ISP will help that happen. You may as well start acting that way when you say things on the Internet. Libelling the chief suspects will only be a red rag to a bull and it helps nobody. This places a higher counter-libel burder on forum moderators, but this increased cost is symmetrical with the recently increased defence budget of the adversary.
* Exploit the Analog Hole. Tell other people in real life about the Tallbloke incident- you don’t have to say which side of the debate you are on. Also begin using non-web forms of communication for raising public awareness of these blogs and the main reasons for retaining scepticism in CAGW. The cost of attacking Tallbloke is small compared to Watts Up With That, and the difference is eyeballs and rights. You probably can’t change which country you live in right now, but get more traffic and you get more protection.
* Be a fair skeptic. Understand the Logical Fallacies and how to construct a respectable argument, and make sure your audience knows you would change your mind if alarming evidence was ever presented, since the respect this creates is important for gaining and retaining listeners.
* Organise summary documents and keep them up to date with the latest evidence, both scientific and political. It is easy to send people one PDF, more difficult for 3 years of disjointed blog posts and commentary that one has to wade through before understanding The Dangerous Idea.
* If you can read this, you are the resistance.
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This covers Catamon’s comment at 76.3 and discussion from then to 76.3.2.1.1
Catamon I’m not sure whether this was deliberate or accidental misdirection, but if you had researched the Siple records you should have noticed that there have been many studies and interpretations of the data over the years. The figure you quoted of approx 297 ppm in 1900 (you say Plimer’s book is quoted as stating 330ppm), was from Neftel et al. (1985) which estimated the ice in the samples from a depth of 111.0-112.0 metres. which was iced laid down in 1812 which provided information to estimate air enclosed during the period 1883-1905. In their study they estimated CO2 at 297ppm (the figure you quoted). How they estimate this is detailed in their paper.
Since then there have been many other researchers who have re-analysed the samples and I haven’t checked what each of them came up with, so I am just dealing with this matter.
You quite correctly quoted The Australian article as follows:
“Antarctic ice core (Siple) shows that there were 330 parts per million of carbon dioxide in the air in 1900; Mauna Loa Hawaiian measurements in 1960 show that the air then had 260ppm carbon dioxide.”
However I believe there has simply been a basic typographical error in The Australian. It should have read:
“Antarctic ice core (Siple) shows that there were 330 parts per million of carbon dioxide in the air in 1960; Mauna Loa Hawaiian measurements in 1960 show that the air then had 260ppm carbon dioxide.”
This makes a lot more sense to compare the Siple 1960 ice core record to the Mauna Loa 1960 record. As you will see, based the Neftel et al. (1985) research you referenced, the CO2 ppm at 1960 appears to be somewhere around 312 ppm – 328 ppm. Of course since 1985 there have been many other interpretations of the Siple ice cores so it is quite reasonable for Plimer to be quoting a figure of 330 ppm in 1960 though I don’t know what particular research he has referenced, it is pretty close to the figure in the paper you referenced.
Plimer’s point is of course that CO2 readings from one source in the world, Mauna Loa, is not representative of what is really happening all around the whole world.
Though I did notice that even though you believe Plimer had deliberately or otherwise used a figure of 330ppm instead of approx 297 ppm CO2 in 1900, you didn’t attempt to explain how there could be a reduction in atmospheric CO2 between 1900 and 1960 which was a period of significant industrialisation and deforestation. This would not suite the catastrophic global warming due to man-made carbon emissions theory would it?
On another point which goes against CAGW theory, if you do further research on the Siple ice core records, you will see that the mean annual temperature over the ice core history ranges from a low of -41 C to a high of -27 C and guess what? The higher temperature does not correlate to higher atmospheric CO2.
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http://www.detaxcanada.org/tyranny.htm
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.”
— C. S. Lewis
THE UGLY FACE OF TYRANNY
The 13 Truths of Tyranny
by: Matt Giwer
1. Any law the electorate sees as being open to being perverted from its original intent will be perverted in a manner that is worse than the manner of perversion seen at the time.
2. Any law that is so difficult to pass it requires the citizens be assured it will not be a stepping stone to worse laws will in fact be a stepping stone to worse laws.
3. Any law that requires the citizens be assured the law does not mean what the citizens fear, means exactly what the citizens fear.
4. Any law passed in a good cause will be interperated to apply to causes against the wishes of the people.
5. Any law enacted to help any one group will be applied to harm people not in that group.
6. Everything the government says will never happen will happen.
7. What the government says it could not foresee, the government has planned for.
8. When there is a budget shortfall to cover non-essential government services the citizens will be given the choice between higher taxes or the loss of essential government services.
9. Should the citizens mount a successful effort to stop a piece of legislation the same legislation will be passed under a different name.
10. All deprivations of freedom and choice will be increased rather than reversed.
11. Any government that has to build safeguards into a law so that it will not be abused is providing guidelines for abusing the law without violating it.
My additions:
12. Any act or statute of government is subject to alteration or to complete disregard by government (courts – judges) by its using the ever present “notwithstanding clause” of any Roman civil style legal system when it is deemed desirable to maintain the status quo – however unlawful the status quo activity may be.
13. When a man or woman make a claim of right or demand their unalienable God Given rights in a Canadian or US court, the judges invoke the methods of repression as they have learned from:
The Anti-Government Movement Guidebook to deny those rights
[ A must read for anyone going to court. ]
——————————————————————————–
A Government Is A Tyranny When:
It sets itself above the will and judgement of the people and refuses to comply with the wishes of the people.
It lies to the people to get what it wants.
The traditional rights of the people are treated as obstacles to the objectives of government.
It creates animosities among the people.
It blames the people for not stopping it from acting against the wishes of the people.
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Thanks for the C.S. Lewis quote on tyranny.
On Friday Fox News reported a Climategate Bombshell:
Did the U.S. Government Help Hide Climate Data?
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/12/16/complicit-in-climategate-doe-under-fire/
Hopefully we will soon see a world-wide collection of barefooted politicians and scientists explaining the 40-year history of this global climate scandal:
http://judithcurry.com/2011/12/16/week-in-review-121611/#comment-150758
With deep regrets,
Oliver K. Manuel
http://myprofile.cos.com/manuelo09
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So now , this is copied and is someone else’s work.
Oliver K Manuel:
“Hopefully we will soon see a world-wide collection of barefooted politicians and scientists explaining the 40-year history of this global climate scandal”:
For too long “Climate Scientists” have relied on the creation of “Computerised Projections” which they have mistakenly or wilfullness called “Models”.
The purpose of real modeling is to examine and measure real factors at both input and output levels.
Models allow that a multivariate system where most of the factors are irrelevant can be treated as a “black box” with only measurements of the target inputs and outputs.
Modelling does not allow for the exclusion or dismissal of relevant factors from consideration as happens with Global Warming “modelling”.
eg The dismissal of atmospheric water vapour from the active greenhouse gas list or the creation of a mythical open ended “Water Forcing”.
Unreality hiding inside a $2,000,000 computer and the driver saying: “if only we had a bigger computer we could find the answer”.
Yes of there would need to be indefinite tenure of position to go with the new computer.
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Oliver,
Re Tyranny, this should be of interest –
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm
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Given that the term govern-ment means ruling the mind –
The question posed by Castaneda’s Don Juan is worth thinking about.
“I want to appeal to your analytical mind, ‘ don Juan said. ‘Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal.
In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver – stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. […] Through the mind, which, after all, is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them.”[Castaneda, The Active Side of Infinity]
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Interesting timeline:
Day 1: Tallbloke in the UK gets his computers confiscated.
Day 2: Trolls show up all over the place suggesting Tallbloke is guilty of something nefarious –
like kiddie porn.
Day 3: Interpol announces the discovery of a major kiddie porn ring in Europe.
.
You got a witty comment on that pajamas?
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Resistance is futile??
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One for the road
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I notice that Hitchens claims absolutely no knowledge about any relevant science, so we should take his comments with the appropriate weight — approximately zero.
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He’s dead.
Long live atheists……oops that would be an oxymoron?……
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Resistance is only futile if you don’t really resist.
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There seems to be a lot of hot air in some of the comments.
Some dates:
Release of e-mails (2) Nov.22
Start of Durban fiasco Nov.29
End of Durban fiasco Dec 11 (actual, not schedule 2 days earlier).
US order to WordPress Dec 9
Cameron upsets EU Dec 9
UK ‘raid’ on Tallbloke Dec 14
Any senior figure implicated in the (unreleased) e-mails would know about it. So the reaction time seems too slow to be an effort to find FOI.
The police won’t find any information about FOI on Tallbloke’s computer – it was dropped as a README file from a russian server which presumably held the e-mails. The same for Jeff Id and anyone else recorded via WordPress.
So, either it is
a) a extraordinarily stupid attempt at intimidation
b) an attempt to look as if the Norfolk police are actually doing something
c) dare I suggest that some senior political figure foresaw the breakup of the coalition, followed by the chance to get rid of that Huhne and his demands for 18 billion pounds a year, and cut the UK deficit by that sum, thus strengthening the UK in the chaos surrounding the inevitable breakup of the Euro? And if the raid provoked FOI into dumping some more bad news for the Global Warming mob, which party in the UK would benefit?
After all, the Metropolitan Police (Scotland Yard) and computer experts went as well. The latter would know full well that it was a waste of time, so that might explain their politeness. Otherwise you would have to claim that they went Pour encourager les east-anglias.
And, just a query, why weren’t the Yorkshire police anywhere near this?
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Acts of Interpretation Act 1901
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aia1901230.txt/cgi-bin/download.cgi/download/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aia1901230.txt
25A Production of records kept in computers etc.
Where a person who keeps a record of information by means of a
mechanical, electronic or other device is required by or under an
Act to produce the information or a document containing the
information to, or make a document containing the information
available for inspection by, a court, tribunal or person, then,
unless the court, tribunal or person otherwise directs, the
requirement shall be deemed to oblige the person to produce or make
available for inspection, as the case may be, a writing that
reproduces the information in a form capable of being understood by
the court, tribunal or person, and the production of such a writing
to the court, tribunal or person constitutes compliance with the
requirement.
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🙂 No matter how often I read about Higgs Bosons, I still don’t understand. To make material understood can be an onerous task. It doesn’t even have to be something requiring sophisticated abstraction.
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You are not alone. No one understands the Higgs Boison. It was simply the excuse to spend hundreds of billions of taxpayer money to build a really big machine. A machine that was promised to find the Higgs Boison – whatever that is.
Obviously, find it or not, they will need trillions to build an even bigger machine in order to explain why the Higss Boison does what it does or why they didn’t find it.
The only thing you need to understand is that they have built an recursive reason to justify ever larger research budgets to build ever larger machines to find endless shrinking ephemera in infinite regression. In other words it compares favorably with global cooling, global warming, climate change, climate disruption, climate weirding, etc…etc…etc.
Chicken Little had more hard evidence for her “the sky is falling” theory than either the Higgs or the AGW cult. At least something actually did fall from above and hit her on her head. All they have is their wild imagination, their disconnected from anything real calculations, and a gullible public willing to pay for their toys.
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The Higgs Bosun if it exists is obviously a life form and the question what is life has never been explained. Neither has the conundrum: which came first,the chicken or the egg.Perhaps a really big computer will provide the answer which might be as simple as 42.
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It would appear from reported sales that Americans have been buying and hoarding large quantities of ammunition. Is this because they can or is it because they are a tad concerned about the direction of government.
I sometimes wish we had a constitution that allows the citizens to march on the Capitol armed, and tell the government that they are surplus to requirements.
The fascist tactics that are being applied internationally will come to nought as the 1984 play book did not envisage the loss of control of information that is the internet and the mobile phone camera, video Email instantaneous communication.
Knowledge is power, we of the internet now have more power than the kings of old, and the term keep the bastards honest is in our hands.
Keeping the freedom of the internet may at some stage require the expenditure of said ammunition, put aside for a rainy day.
One can only hope that truth and sense will come to those in power who have the capacity to stop this madness.
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Friends:
It is not known why the police raided the home of Tallbloke. This may be revealed when the reasons presented for the Search Warrant are made public. Until then all suggestions for the purpose of the raid can only be speculation.
It seems to be generally assumed that the search was aimed at determining – or appearing to attempt to be determining – the identity of ‘FOIA’ who released the Climategate 2 emails. This is plausible.
But another possible reason seems to be being ignored. The police may have been seeking evidence of nefarious activity by the Team which is in the public domain.
The AGW-scare met the beginning of its end two years ago in Copenhagen. The scare was always about taxation in countries and resource transfer between countries. But at the IPCC Meeting in Copenhagen most countries who are ‘major players’ withdrew from the game. At that point it was clear to all involved that the writing was on the wall;
Mene mene tekel u-pharsin.
The IPCC meeting in Cancun last year was a farce and no leaders of major nations attended.
The IPCC Meting in Durban this month reduced the issue to complete farce. It discussed a document which is so insane that no politician could sign it without committing political suicide. Discussion of that document would not have happened if anybody thought there were any real possibility of ‘progress’: the discussion would have been about methods to adopt the next realistic ‘step’. So, at Durban it was decided that talks (in nice places) should continue with a view to getting something adopted by 2020 (i.e. in the far distant future after most existing politician have left office).
Canada has recently gained a new generation of politicians who do not have a record of being tied to the AGW-scare, so Canada has announced that it is withdrawing from the Kyoto Protocol process.
The AGW-scare is dead but – like a headless chicken – it continues to ‘run around the farmyard’.
A scapegoat is needed if the movement of the dead issue is to be stopped. The Team make a very useful scapegoat (and would deserve all they would get as a scapegoat).
Scapegoating the Team by use of information already in the public domain minimises risk of the scapegoating causing damage to politicians with whom the Team has been associated. And the information on Tallbloke’s computer is a good , collated summary of the pertinent information of Team activity which is already in the public domain.
Richard
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I’ve missed you, Richard. Welcome back!
Good analysis. But I fear this headless chicken will run around for yet a long time, digging in its claws wherever it can. There may yet be a lot of harm from the AGW monster.
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If this is your optimism speaking I admire it. As an alternative scenario it’s certainly plausible and would explain the US involvement.
And no harm in applying optimism to the alternative scenario either.
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Dang, put the quotes around the wrong block – stormy night, not much sleep.
[fixed] ED
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“At that point it was clear to all involved that the writing was on the wall;”
I am pretty sure that point was reached a fair time prior (and as a result, I don’t think the following is in any way unrelated to the whole AGW bandwagon, for those that may think it off topic).
I watched coverage of something on another subject prior to Copenhagen, and Paul Volcker, who for many decades has been an enthusiastic supporter of Globalisation and a New World Order (probably for the best of reasons and with the best of intentions, and I think this is likely true of most of the ‘players’), was asked a question about it, and he responded with the jaw dropping statement that he had come to the conclusion that it simply can’t work. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to come across that statement to look again at it, since (others here may have seen it).
Now the conclusion itself is hardly surprising (history is full of warnings about likely consequences). Even something the size of the EU has the seeds of its own failure firmly embedded within it, which today should be all too clear to anybody with the eyes to see. Let alone something the size of a Planet with its mind boggling (and rather wonderful) diversity. I hesitate to mention difficulties associated with somewhere as small as Afghanistan, but it is definitely pertinent to Globalisation and any NWO, so what the hell, consider Afghanistan. Failure of concept suddenly becomes glaringly obvious, doesn’t it?
So given the logical nature of an inherent failure of concept, which goes some way to counterbalance the lack of a link to firm this up (sorry about that, but I have looked, without success), what does this suggest, if this is indeed the case?
Well firstly I would say, that in reaching this conclusion, Paul Volcker is obviously far from alone. For him to even mention it, means it must now be a significant majority viewpoint amongst those whose views matter.
Next, it must be appreciated that decades and vast amounts of resources have now been spent pursuing this dream (with its now appreciated inevitable conversion into a nightmare), along with legislative action to assist with enabling it, much of it via the UN ‘instrument’ and its subsidiaries.
So now the reality that it can’t work is sinking in or has sunk in, and pursuing it ‘anyway’ (you can surely appreciate the attraction of the ‘we have invested so much in this we must see it through’ argument) will likely result in catastrophic consequences, how then to stop the inertia of this juggernaut?
How do things get undone, in the least damaging ways possible, and in the most timely manner possible, because it would seem to me, that time is most definitely of the essence?
If there is any substance in this at all, then very soon now, we should be witnessing Earth shaking changes of direction (with lots of associated squealing of tyres and gear shifting).
Let’s hope we don’t have to witness the crash of a force that is nowhere near as infinite as it might like to think, colliding with a very immovable object, eh?
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Richard S Courtney
an excellent piece, and better argued than my thought. Yes, the political climate has changed, and is now dominated by the debt crisis suddenly on them (have you ever read C. Northcote Parkinson who predicted it in 1959?).
The strongest supporters of political action on AGW have been the nations in Europe. Now they have to cut their budgets back by abandoning any superfluous expenditure. They have a choice between slashing their overloaded public services (which will annoy voters affected) or dropping financial support for green projects, which would upset a minority who don’t vote for them anyway but delight those who want less expensive electricity/food etc.
The problem with implementing the latter action is the 25 years of relentless propaganda in favour of AGW, which will cause unease. Revelations that a clique conspired to misinform the public would be enormously helpful, giving many an excuse to stop supporting AGW. But that leaves the “true believers” who won’t change their minds (if indeed they are capable of thinking) and will be outraged.
My point was that Cameron in the UK has a shorter term problem. Foreseeing the collapse of the Euro, and some sort of split in the EU, he has to position his party for an election fairly soon, as the Liberal Democrats can be counted on to leave the coalition, and may even try to join with Labour. Since both of them are firmly committed to AGW, calling an election while there is a steady stream of adverse revelations about The Team would be very helpful for the Conservatives.
The USA order came on the day that Cameron realised that he had definitely parted ways with the EU. The raid on Tallbloke might be for the very reason you mention. Had this been an american initiative, surely some action would have been taken in that country.
Certainly the clumsy action on only one person isn’t likely to intimidate others, rather the reverse. It has started comment in the main stream media, and brought the debate to public attention in a small way, which further actions could easily increase. In no way can it be seen as beneficial to The Team.
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In less than 24 hours Congress could vote to change the internet forever
Tomorrow the House Judiciary Committee is going to vote on H.R.3261, the Stop Online Piracy Act, or SOPA for short. As I have previously outlined, this legislation would destroy the internet as we know it and severely impinge on free speech and the spread of information.
If this passes committee, which all indications say it likely will, it could be voted on by the whole of the House of Representatives at any time.
Individuals and corporations both large and small are stepping up to fight back against the draconian SOPA legislation and the Senate’s sister legislation, the PROTECT IP Act.
However, there is a significant lobby that is pushing back against the tide of freedom and liberty in an attempt to severely restrict the internet.
As the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) pointed out in a Congressional hearing, SOPA will restrict non-infringing online content right along with the infringing content the bill is supposedly aimed at combating.
“By contemplating an order that effectively bars others from gaining access to both infringing and non-infringing content, the proposed statute goes beyond appropriate First Amendment free speech protections,” the ACLU said.
The wildly restrictive SOPA legislation would essentially make it impossible for some of the largest websites on the internet to operate in any way that is remotely familiar to the climate we have known.
Any social media website that allows users to freely post content could be shut down at any time if any infringing content is posted on the site.
This means that all of YouTube, all of Twitter, all of Facebook, all free blog hosts, etc. could be forced to close down if a single individual posts infringing content.
This is China-style internet censorship on steroids; it is so astoundingly oppressive that there has been a blatant disinformation war waged against those who seek to keep the internet free.
More at EndtheLie.com – http://EndtheLie.com/2011/12/14/in-less-than-24-hours-congress-could-vote-to-change-the-internet-forever/#ixzz1gquuXtzj
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It would be sad to see the end of internet freedom.
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It would be more than sad JB – it would be really frustrating having to work around the internet to communicate.
All it will do is make it harder for the state to understand what people are thinking and discussing. The technology now is too ubiquitous – heck – even Putin is struggling these days!
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JB, fuc* off.
You are simply a blathering idiot. You say this now after all the warnings here?
Sad indeed….
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There you have it in a nutshell, 1984 redux. The internet, as Wayne mentioned above, wasn’t envisioned by Orwell, so such an act as the aforementioned SOPA act is the last brick in the wall for the control freaks who wish to create an alternate reality totally for the purposes of furthering their own political and social engineering agenda. As an Australian, it makes you feel like telling the US Congress that if they do as they seem to intend, they can take Pine Gap and shove it where the sun don’t shine. With apologies to MarkD and our other US regulars here- they can’t be held accountable for the machinations of their elected officials. It’s kind of funny how today’s nut job conspiracy theory can so easily end up as tomorrow’s reality, if you turn your back on your corrupt government officials for too long. They need to be kept on a very short leash, and horsewhipped if they step out of line- literally. They can serve the people transparently and diligently, or f*** off.
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Encrypt your data. Maintain local and off-site (encrypted) backups.
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Jaymez: “What is surprising is that if the police were actively working the Climategate ‘leaks’ case, (either the original or 2.0), why did it take over three weeks from the Climategate 2.0 leaks to seize Tallbloke’s computers? It should have been done as soon as the leaked emails were confirmed as genuine.
It does smell as if someone has leant on the police from a great height. They have been told to ‘do something about catching the leaker, and/or stopping the 200,000 other files from being released’.”
I would put money on the encrypted files being decrypted, their contents analysed in the interim, and the consequent communications with the affected parties since.
With Mann’s e-mails, given the now ‘widely known on campus activities’ going on at the ‘centre of learning’ during the period (Mann was there 1999 to 2005, and surely would NOT have been unaware of what was going on, as everybody else seems to have been), I think it is reasonable to assume that strong resistance to FOI requests may be more than partly due to discussions in those e-mails about the ‘widely known on campus activities’ along with the personalities linked to those ‘activities’ (which is not saying that those involved in discussions about them, are people involved in those activities).
Perhaps the prosecutors involved in the Penn State case, should be encouraged to subpoena them?
Something else that needs to sink in too, imho, is the diversity of fields this playbook has been used in, apart from climate. The research into lead, dominated by unscientific assumptions and poor statistics to drive an agenda, a recent widely publicised doctors recommendation based on equally unscientific assumptions and poor statistics to drive an agenda, etc., etc. Much, or all, driven by the UN.
This is the body that also compiles the Global population numbers, remember. What’s been going on there, and what’s been going on everywhere else?
I think it is becoming perfectly clear to just about everybody (it has even sunk in with my elderly father, which says a lot), that the extent of the ‘extreme scumbagness’ and utter corruption and criminality at the top, is beyond words to express.
This also begs very big and very serious questions about the failure of very expensive Publicly financed Law enforcement, alphabet agency investigative integrity, very real National and International security issues that are associated, and the obvious failure of the Justice System to follow through.
Handcuffs are becoming acutely noticeable, by their absence (in all too many areas of enforcement).
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Just to expand on that lead research, as an insight.
The ‘lead pollution’ signal being incapable of being differentiated from the noise of natural background lead levels, should have been ringing alarm bells everywhere.
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In a broken and fearful world,
1. World leaders spread fear and claim ability to control Nature
http://www.ipa.org.au/publications/1964/a-history-of-scientific-alarms
2. Precise rest mass measurements on every atom show:
a.) Neutrons attract protons to make stable atoms
b.) Neutrons repel other neutrons; Neutron-rich atoms are unstable
c.) Protons repel protons even more strongly; Proton-rich atoms are less stable
d.) A benevolent Reality that surrounds and sustains us is in a “Cradle of the Nuclides”
http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Elements-Solar-System-Implications/dp/0306465620
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/Fear_Not.pdf
3. The AGW scare will collapse once the public knows that a pulsar produced our elements, gave birth to the Solar System, and still controls our fate today.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/NASA_finally_asks.pdf
Best wishes for the Holidays!
Today all is well,
Oliver K. Manuel
Former NASA Principal
Investigator for Apollo
http://www.omatumr.com
http://myprofile.cos.com/manuelo09
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Comments under Greg Laden’s post are worth a read:-
Computers Seized in Cyber-Thief Investigation (updated)
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/computers_of_criminal_cyber-th.php
Note that although he “updated” the post, the link address is as the original post (computers_of_criminal).
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