It’s sad to watch the implosion of a Nobel Cause. Well it would be…
But then DeSmog thinks providing fake documents “is in the public interest”. (Is there is a shortage of false and misleading articles around? Who knew?)
This particular parody refers to Charles Johnson (who?).
Hat tip: As Baa Humbug said in posting this in comments: This didn’t take long.
The old Nazi theme is worn to the end, but then, it seems to be going around. The LA Times invokes Godwins Law, cites ‘Mein Kampf’ to attack Heartland Institute… (WUWT)
On a legal note:
Greg Laden doesn’t know what to do. Memoryvault popped in to help share his expertise. (That is just so typical of our lot, always trying to stop people making mistakes that can be avoided. Good on you MV :-)). His thoughts were copied in comment #38 on yesterday’s thread here. Interesting read.
Both MV’s posts have now been published on Greg Laden’s blog – seems they were caught in moderation. And a lot of commentators are advising him to back off. Here’s the best:
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He should also realize that it isn’t going to cost his “buddies” who are egging him on a cent, it is going to cost him.
Very easy to tell someone to “stand up to them” when the person making that statement has no financial or other risks riding on the choice that is made.
With friends like that, who needs enemies?
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Robert, “his buddies” might have a problem if it can be proven that they re-posted (and even linked to) anything that is defamatory.
As far as “friends like that” I’d advise the little peckers at Deslog to keep up the good work.
I don’t quite understand the “olive branch” approach of Memoryvault. But then I attended the Eddy Aruda school of diplomacy (graduate with honors) 🙂
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Greg getting into one scrape over libel was bad but to do the same thing again within a few months, has to show some sort of deathwish. I’m reminded of a comment by some dowager, who upon being told someone was an orphan, remarked that losing one parent was bad luck but losing the other one was pure carelessness …
Pointman
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It was Lady Bracknell, The Importance of Being Ernest, Act I Pt 2:
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Once upon a time Mr. C. Johnson (of LGF) was staunchly right-wing and was even referenced by Rush Limbaugh a few times. I used to read it regularly.
Then he… changed.
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Yeah, he changed quite dramatically. It was really weird and seemed to correspond to his having to hastily change living arrangements if I remember correctly. I haven’t looked at his blog in years and I used to go there daily.
He went to the dark side.
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Thanks Jo for covering this. I am enjoying my popcorn and watching.
MV is just too kind with his post at Greg’s blog. Am curious if his very well founded and good intended advice will be followed.
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I tried to convince Greg the first time around when he made those stupid libelous statements to Tallbloke.He remained irrationally defiant until he was contacted by a lawyer to drop it.
The second time around is actually worse because he has not learned from the first one.Therefore he is developing a bad reputation as someone prone to posting libelous comments.
He is a fool for it.
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It is worse than just “developing a bad reputation as someone prone to posting libelous comments.”
It is a case of someone who is developing a reputation of ignoring C&D requests thus opening themselves up for further litigation.
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It all depends on what his take-away point from the tall-bloke incident was.
Some people who receive a C&D, and who then back down without serious consequences for themselves, come away with a sudden realization of how close they sailed to disaster, and desire to be extra cautious in future.
But some other people who receive a C&D, and who then back down without serious consequences for themselves, come away with the impression that the worst that could happen next time is they’ll get threatened and eventually have to back down. A sort of false confidence that comes from sailing close to, but surviving near-disaster.
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> Am curious if his very well founded and good intended advice will be followed.
Then it will be merely natural selection at work.
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It looks a bit like Guilleards reaction to Rudd wanting his old job back.
By the way – I’ve just woken up – has there been another coup for prime ministership of this country?
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Saw something on Australian Climate Madness indicating something happened last night. I think it was last night anyway.
Gillard finished as Australian Prime Minister?
That was one of the items in the post, looks like they are ready to throw her under the bus.
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Pointman- the quote you gave is from Oscar Wilde “To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.” Wilde also said “The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.”
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Well I thought I should add some balance after Memoryvault so I went over there and told him to dig his heels in and fight to the last.
🙂
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Daily Kos: Book review: The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars
Imagine a place where you and your family are threatened, your employer pressured by the most powerful people on earth to fire you, your email hacked and posted by the usual suspects in accusatory snippets, and where a mysterious letter containing white powder mixed in with tons of traditional hate mail land in your inbox. A suspected communist sympathizer during the McCarthy era, or a Muslim in the wake of 9-11? Nope. All because you helped make one of the most important scientific discoveries in a generation.
http://tomnelson.blogspot.co.nz/
“Fake but Accurate,” as Dan Rather once said and NYT quoted (and CBS posted it’s defense at Daily Kos)
Also,
Revkin wins the fake-but-accurate race? ‘The Dan-Rather-esque ‘fake but accurate’ defense of the memo from teaching science’
‘When presented with the fact that he may have published a fake memo, Revkin wrote: ‘looking back, it could well be something that was created as a way to assemble the core points in the batch of related docs.’ — ‘It sounds like he is saying that while the memo is faked, it may have been someones attempt to summarize real Heartland documents. Fake but accurate!’
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/14855/Revkin-wins-the-fakebutaccurate-race-The-DanRatheresque-fake-but-accurate-defense-of-the-memo-from-teaching-science
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Jo,
Nobel cause? You meant Noble ?
——————————-
REPLY: Both 😉 -Jo
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Just a thought on this,
With regards to the other documents which the heartland institute are unable to confirm their authenticity, I notice the catastrafarians are bleating on about the heartland institute to have a lot of time to confirm whether they’re authentic or not.
As for the fake memo – well they’ve been clear – it appears to be a fabricated lie. As for the other documents, they may appear to be authentic, however, there is no way for the heartland institute to know this without receiving the original documents from the source who received and published the documents. There is a lot of metadata associated with any binary file which is not necessarily visible without being scrutinised.
The only way for the heartland institute to be able to properly verify the other documents as being authentic would be for the perpetrator who received and first published the files to provide through proper legal means the original artefacts for the heartland institute to study.
If I were the heartland institute, I would be advising that they demand through the necessary legal mechanisms the copies of the documents desmog and others have been working from. This would probably involve revealing their source. From there, it would be possible for the heartland institute to verify the documents authenticity – at a cost.
From there, I would do the Fair work australia thing and explain that because they don’t have $300million budget, it will take another 400 years or so for them to release their findings.
Gosh it sure would be funny if they were all fabricated and released accidentally on purpose eh? The old slight of hand double cross. It sure would be too easy to sucker in a hunch of left wing joiners who easily believe anything that supports their belief system. LOL
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I’d go for a simple test. If the words of Heartland’s actual documents and the words of the ones in the public arena happen to have a one-to-one correspondence, then they are authentic.
I am of course, still confused. I find nothing embarrassing for Heartland in those documents. They seem to be an accurate reflection of Heartland’s actual strategy. For example, is it at all surprising that Heartland want “their side” of climate change taught in schools? Not at all. So the fact that they are paying someone to prepare classroom material to counter the conventionally accepted climate science is not surprising, and not embarrassing. If someone publishes a document that says, “Joe Bloggs had eggs for breakfast this morning”, is that libellous?
That is, if you publish something which simply confirms what most people already thought, can you be sued for libel?
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‘That is, if you publish something which simply confirms what most people already thought, can you be sued for libel?’
Yes, if those items were illegally obtained then fabricated and then disseminated on the web without retraction after receiving a C&D letter.
Alarmists, like Greg Laden, are liars. Both Greg and I know he is, so do others.
Liar Liar pants on fire.
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John,
The point about the seemingly authetic documents (Heartland is not specifically stating that they are fake) is the fact that they were stolen. They are commercial and confidential property and stealing them is a crime (if it the theft can be proven). The content of these documents is, as you have said here, relatively uninteresting.
The real issue is the fake document (which Heartland has stated is a fake), the publishing of which is libellous.
Try to keep up.
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John,
You’re being too simplistic. As I tried to explain it before – there is more to the document than the visible content. Catastrafarians will trawl through the metadata of the files they receive (which may have been altered) to find whatever muck they can. Creation dates, modification dates, tracked changes (if there are any), author, etc – these are all important.
Unless HI actually receive through the correct legal means the original documents from the original recipient, they cannot confirm the documents authenticity.
And even if they do get the originals from the original source, I fear with their utterly pathetic budget and priorities, they would make faitr work australia look like a model of efficacy with respect to the thompson inquiry/Stall/coverup for your mates.
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This is of topic so sorry in advance, was watching a show last night about dark matter. Dark matter is responsible for the birth of a branch of science known as “cosmology” here are some quotes from the scientists regarding cosmology.
1) If i said i saw a pink elephant a cosmologist could create a computer model to show one exists, if i then change my mind and say it was green he could twiddle a few knobs and make it green but in either case it does not prove what i saw was real.
2) As a scientist i would have to say the evidence for the existance of a God does not exist……….cosmology is like a religion.
and my favorite
3) They will keep researching this until the money runs out, everytime they fail to find it they blame the methodology and not the theory.
All this reminds me of another newly formed branch of science.
Here Bolt talks about another book for our children to read at school
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/how_global_warming_is_preached_in_year_8/
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Does anyone know what rights I as a parent have to prevent this political message being impressed on my child before s/he has the ability to critically assess it for themselves?
Can I demand to see the curriculum on that topic before it is portrayed?
Seriously, I have a preschooler who is about to start ebing conditioned next year on “Climate change”.
If I wanted my child to have the fear of god drummed into him/her, I would’ve sent him/her to a catholic school!
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Hi Crakar24,
Yes I had a big smile on my face when I heard those comments. How appropriate for crimatology.
Hi MadJak,
I can relate to your concerns, my only advice is what I did with my daughter. She was sent to a Catholic school, but is now an atheist. The trick is to take an active interest in what your child is being taught, and also teach your child how to think critically and understand logic. Two subjects not taught in schools. Parents do have an advantage over teachers.
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MaxL,
That is what I was thinking – but what about with a preschooler? I am genuinely concerned about the inappropriateness of such a loaded political agenda on children that young!
Granted, kids that young are going to shrug things off, but the only reason for them to be taught anything along those lines is to seed them for later conditioning. I am completely against this.
I cannot understate my concern here.
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I agree that there is no reason for preschoolers, kindy or years 1&2 to be taught anything on these lines. I object to it with every bone in my body, but I sincerely believe that as parents we have to take some responsibility for our children’s education. Let them (teachers) say what they will, but by showing your child an alternative and reasonable view you will instil in them the basics of scepticism.
I believe that homework is little more than adult education, and we can use this time to correct for fallacious concepts.
Being a parent is the hardest task we will ever undertake.
Preschoolers eventually realize there is no Santa. They learn that they have been told lies.
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Mad Jack,
You dont have many rights as a parent you can only limit the damage, you do this by carefully selecting which school they attend but as Rereke has said it may send you bankrupt, but it is worth every penny.
Public pre schools are not much to worry about they tend to simply enlighten the children about the environment and for the most part it is good for example they may do a project on recycling etc. This is not too damaging but it is all part of the softening up process for when they get to public high schools and these are the ones to avoid. I had a choice between public schools so run down i would not send my dog there to learn how to roll over and play dead (back blocks of Adelaide) so i was left a cotholic/Lutheran/Christian school so as an atheist i was in trouble.
In the end i settled on the catholic school because it was the only one i could almost afford but here my children are free from propaganda and the religious bit is very small, in the end its the color of your money that counts.
My advice to you Mad Jack would be to send your children to a public primary school and start saving to send them to the best private high school you can afford.
Cheers
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGZSvdSsoAE&feature=player_embedded
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There is an expanded version of the same story over at ACM complete with comprehensive quotes.
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2012/02/disgraceful-climate-indoctrination-in-australian-schools/#more-8540
Keep in mind as you read this brain-washing propaganda that it is a STATE endorsed textbook on Geography for Year 8 students in NSW.
Then bring to mind the fact that NSW has a LIBERAL state government elected with an overwhelming majority specifically to address this kind of Labor/Green/Socialist/Left nonsense.
Then write and remind me again of all the reasons why any sane person should believe voting in Tony Abbott and the Liberals at the next federal election will make stuff-all difference.
Please.
I’m still getting over the fact the SAME Liberal state government was recently planning to ban the sale of regular unleaded petrol to “promote” the use of biofuel to “save the planet”.
I am in dire need of some reassurance right now.
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Sorry MV I can’t give you that assurance except to say that we know what this mob of idiots have done. So there may be just a tiny glimmer of hope that the next mob of idiots may not do the same, even if it’s because there isn’t much money to do so.
p.s. the text book is approved by education board beurocrats. The minister may not be aware of it. We’ll see what transpires over the next few days.
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I have posted there as well – what right of recourse do I have to protect my child from this pernicious crap?
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Probably not much within the State system – the syllabus is everything – it is wonderful, and a work of art, and must not be sullied. Besides, it cannot be changed for one child just because one parent objects to something quite reasonable for children to learn in preparation for life in the middle of the 21 century. /sarc
In New Zealand, we have private schools that those parents who can afford it, send their children. I have two daughters, both of which went to a private girls school. It nearly bankrupted me, but at least they are both independent thinkers, even if they never agree with my position on anything (including the benefits of sending daughters to an all girls private school).
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Merriam-Webster online dictionary
Definition of IN LOCO PARENTIS
: in the place of a parent
When a child enrols in a government school [reminds me of fish] the government becomes the parent.
If a private school gets government funding it is compelled to perform according to the dictates of the government.
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Not exactly Kevin, a private school is bound by the syllabus of the state/federal government but they are not bound by how they implement/teach it and therin lies the difference.
They must educate pupils to the same standard in math, english, physics or chemistry for the sake of SACE etc so when they get their ATARS score it is an equivalent achievement.
However my son and daughter do not have to endure AIT or some other nonsensical jibberish but rather a real documentary (cant think of one) to teach them things.
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I am sending you a metaphorical hug down the wire … 🙂
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I don’t get the feeling MV is the “huggy” type. His wife and kiddies sure but…… Oh alright a big man-hug (internet style) to MV!
Obviously he needs something, Gawd he offered FREE legal advice to the ENEMY!
There is an expression about free legal advice; something like “worth every penny”?
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memoryvault,
I am reminded of an old adage.
Tony.
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MV,
You raise a valid point the Westminster system suffers from the same problems as most others in that we may have the appearance of choice but in reality we do not. What we have in fact is a choice of politicians but not of politics or policies.
What we really need is politicians who listen to the people and put the people of Australia first, second and third. This is not happening at the moment but at least Abbott and the liberals appear to be listening at least in regards to carbon tax etc. Voting in the liberals may not be the panacea we are all looking for it may be a step in the right direction for if we were to stay with Gillard/Labor we will surely head further down the road of a diktatorship.
Hugs and kisses
Crakar24
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Bolt says Obama is not paying much interest,but –
http://noisyroom.net/blog/2010/09/23/u-s-land-oceans-and-coastlines-under-un-control/
And, Kevin Rudd is on the Rio+20 Panel on global sustainability.
Australian Governments acting as parent, are fulfilling a plank of the Communist Manifesto in their establishment of compulsory indoctrination centres for children registered into the system. The worship of the equivalent of the Catholic Mary,that being Gaia, is also a religion.
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Australia has signed the United Nations Convention On The Law Of The Sea –
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1994/31.html
It should be read in conjunction with – Acts Interpretation Act 15B
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the book Bolt is featuring is written by Grant Kleeman:
10 Sept 2010: Australian: Justine Ferrari: Teachers fear course neglect
The vice-chairman of the Australian Geography Teachers Association and a member of the Australian Academy of Science geography committee, Grant Kleeman, said without geography being compulsory in Years 9 and 10, students would study sustainability and climate change issues only through science that did not cover the social, economic and political aspects of the issue.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/teachers-fear-course-neglect/story-e6frg6nf-1225916774062
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That classic vid certainly gets many subtitle makeovers, all of which fit AH to a tee; right, flaming mad, as are those AGW’s (Against General Wishes), who are all insane people.
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BTW If you want to see the ‘cutting edge’ of green thinking and behavior..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nxxRK7jatuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7GXm_IPAw0&feature=related
(The language is beyond fowl, certainly not be shown with young kids around..)
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This keeps getting better and better, Gleik owns up – http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/20/peter-gleick-admits-to-deception-in-obtaining-heartland-climate-files/
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He has become the witness:
So, the implication he wants people to take away from this is that the “anonymous document” was a leak – originating from person or persons unknown within the Heartland Institute.
Questions: Does he still have possession of that document? Since he is not entitled to have that document, will he now return it to the Heartland Institute; the lawful owner? Why did he not return it before this current incident?
Note: “…in a serious lapse of my own professional judgement and ethics, …”. What, no mention of the illegality of his actions? He has illegally retaining a document he was not entitled to have, and then impersonated someone he was not, in order to get more documents by fraudulent means.
Questions: Why did he not return these documents to their rightful owner, especially once he had confirmed that the original document was genuine? Why, having the second set of documents, did he choose to send them to, “a set of journalists and experts working on climate issues”, thus making them accessories after the fact.
This is seriously serious, for those involved in this fraud. Peter has become Judas.
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Yup, his career is finished. This is just going to get worse and worse for him from here on in.
The memo reads like a fake, HI has advised it is a fake and yet our intrpid Mr Gleik has broken numerous laws “investigating” what is apparently a fake document.
This is a sign of desperation from the warmist blogs, this is a real big win for skeptic blogs, congrats to Jo and all the others.
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The way I read it Rereke Peter H. Gleick has admitted a fraud.
‘One way or the other, Gleick’s use of deception in pursuit of his cause after years of calling out climate deception has destroyed his credibility and harmed others. (Some of the released documents contain information about Heartland employees that has no bearing on the climate fight.) That is his personal tragedy and shame (and I’m sure devastating for his colleagues, friends and family).’
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/
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The funding involved with HI is really trivial compared to what some cliamte change groups can obtain. This was always about the apparent “dastardly” attempt to undermine the “supposed” teaching of “science”.
This is a major victory, warmists should be ashamed of Mr Gleiks actions, as to who sent him the “memo”, IMO thats a strawman defence being set up. Bye bye Mr Gleik.
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He has admitted that he broke the law to obtain the info from the HI, now what other laws has he broken I wonder 🙂
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Peter Gleik is an elected member of the National Academy of Sciences. Oh dear…
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Hasn’t a considerable bit of the analysis of “the document” exposed very similar phrasing and writing styles to that used by Gleick?
If one reads through some of the prior comments at WUWT and Lucia’s there were very strong indications that Gleick was the suspect based on similarities in style and content of “the document” and Gleick’s articles. Is he the forger as well? He needs to come up with the original and, while I suspect this is too much for him to manage, start praying.
This is from the latest at WUWT:
That is how Anthony ended his post where he announced Gleick’s confession. How many others will be lining up one wonders…
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He was called out on numerous sites, Pielke jnr even asked him the question by email.
Just WOW!
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Agreed, WOW. Even Hollywood can’t write anything this good anymore.
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Baa Humbug
Yeah, well considering this Kleeman character is actually the Head of the Secondary Education Faculty (in charge of teaching the future teachers) at Maquarie University (a state government-funded facility), just maybe the Minister ought to lift his head out of the slops trough long enough to smell the daisies.
http://www.educ2.mq.edu.au/staff.aspx?sid=36
He’s been involved in the development of the NSW secondary education curriculum since 1990 and written lots of similar
propagandabooks. Quote:And only this morning Bolt was writing about the collapse of educational standards in Australian schools.
Dearie me, I wonder what could have caused that?
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Note especially how when monumentally huge amounts of money are involved, Governement Departments will then do everything possible to protect that inflow of money.
Every part of Government will then find ways to make sure that money does get the protection.
Education is but one part of that level of protection.
This has never been about the Environment.
It was always only about the money.
Tony.
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Couldn’t resist posting on Greg Laden’s blog:
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A followup posting:
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“… in a serious lapse of my own and professional judgment and ethics, I solicited and received additional …” grants / government funding from the taxpayers, and once I was hooked up to that mainline of easy money, political influence, and fauning sychophants, I just wanted more, more, more !
Seriously though, has PG done anything here that he and his kind haven’t already basically been doing for years ?
When you consider the kind of money he and his kind have conned out of ever-ready and eager politicians over the years, is it really all that different to also con somebody over the phone into sending them some documents they were not entitled to ?
Seems to me that PG’s “ethics” were already highly questionable long before he pretended to be a HL board member.
It certainly makes me wonder what PG means by “ethics in science” … and what he is relying upon as a benchmark.
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Thank you. I enjoyed that way more than I should have.
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[…] Satire is a beautiful thing… […]
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it’s Ironic that Charles “Icarus” Johnson achieved whatever fame he had by running with the rathergate memo ( info that he stole from Buckhead at Free Republic, BTW) and played a role in discrediting Dan Rather for using obvious fakes.
now “Icarus” has assumed the role of Dan Rather, only without all the fame and fortune. But he shares the common thread of being a washed up old Hack who is desperately trying to regain some sort of importance.
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Memoryvault:
I saw your comments you mentioned above at Laden’s blog. Both excellent and informative. There were there for at least a little while.
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