Dr Craig Emerson, Minister for Science, Weather, Inventions, Factories and Universities.
After the leadership farce last week and the resignations of the more-sensible Labor ministers, Gillard has reshuffled again and the DCC (Department of Climate Change) is disappearing into a “super ministry”. It is a sign of the times.
The P.M. has bundled the Department of Climate Change into a nightmare acronynm:
The Prime Minister used her sixth ministerial reshuffle to merge the Department of Climate Change with the Department of Industry, creating a new Department of Industry, Innovation, Climate Change, Science, Research and Tertiary Education.
Is that DIICCSRTE?
Gillard has made Craig Emerson minister of nearly everything.
Gillard also appointed the former Woodside director, Gary Gray, to cabinet as mines and energy minister. The Climate Spectator is worried. Gray said something skeptical once in 1993: that the evidence linking human activity to climate change was ‘‘pop science”. Years later he apparently said he regretted the comments, but this was not enough to convince the religious that he has discovered the faith. He made the mistake of saying there needed to be “intellectual challenge and debate”. These plain and sane words marked him as a confirmed skeptic. Only skeptics want debates. A true believer prefers not to mention them, except to say they are over. The correct litany is “there is a consensus”.
It’s funny how even a weak expression of doubt 20 years ago is not forgotten. If it were just a question of science and evidence, 20 years is a long time, and anyone could have changed their mind. But if it’s a question of religion, or a tribal allegiance, then 20 years is an insight into his character.
UPDATE: It’s not even day #2 in a new ministership, and suddenly Gary Gray feels he has to join the chorus to declare he is not a skeptic, and his former words on Climate Change “embarrass him”. Presumably he had to toe the line, but it’s clumsy — he’s goes too far. The ALP never misses a chance to alienate half the population. How many skeptical voters will feel more represented or respected by the Labor Party now?
(Commenter Matt J notes that Andrew Bolt said on 2GB that he knows Gary Gray and he is a skeptic. )
The Greens are not happy (so we know it must be good):
UPDATE: “Greens slam merger as symbolic retreat on climate change” The Australian
“Greens leader Christine Milne blasted the move, saying it showed Ms Gillard was in “retreat on addressing global warming”. Senator Milne used the occasion to launch a broader assault on the government’s green credentials, citing Labor’s abandonment of its former Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme in 2010. She claimed Labor had to be “dragged back” to tackling climate change by the Greens.”
“The Australian Conservation Foundation said the merger could lead to a loss of focus on co-ordination of climate change action, but warned against cuts to climate schemes in the May budget.”
“The worry with today is that the Gillard government has moved closer to Tony Abbott by abolishing a stand-alone climate department, merging it with another department and putting a fossil fuel advocate into the energy department,” Senator Milne told reporters in Hobart.
There are two new Science Ministers?
Is this a case of twice as important or really that no one is in charge?
UPDATE: Apparently, Emerson is in charge. Farrell the assistant.
- The Hon. Dr Craig Emerson MP is the new Portfolio Minister of Tertiary Education, Skills, Science and Research.
- The Senator Don Farrell is the new Minister for Science and Research.
One or both of these men will be the one at the top of the Australian Research Council money tree (that’s the group that dishes out the dosh in the world of Australian science). Some ARC funded research projects paint people who disagree with Labor policy as mentally inadequate. If you wonder why these projects should get funding from the Australian taxpayer, these are the men now responsible for answering that question. We look forward to their answers, and their explanation of how all Australian taxpayers benefit from research that labels rational criticisms as “conspiratorial” and “ideated”.
That kind of commentary used to be known as “correcting the record”.
Probably DYSFUNCTIONAL.
“Climate” really is reaching a tipping point; politicians worldwide now realise that “climate” measures are a total electoral liability and are dumping them as quick as decently possible.
It is politicians that are the canary in the mine; now they have dumped climate alarmism, the movement is on its last legs, despite the shrill wailing of the Lewandowsky and Gergis types.
Now we need to start calculating the bill in terms of dollars wasted and livelihoods destroyed. We’ll need red ink by the bucketload.
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Carbon tax con
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i found this propaganda on the greenies website http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-25/carbon-tax-cops-blame-for-hip-pocket-pain3a-survey/4593156
Don’t let juliar get away with it!!! the carbon tax is costing much more than it did 5 years ago!!!
i am angry!!!
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Kimberley Greens are happy, as he has stated a preference for a floating option for Browse Gas, a much cheaper alternative than James Price Point. Kimberley Greens outvoted the Liberal Party by 10% in the town of Broome.
10
Red Broome shared a link.
Saturday
Actually, the unions are wrong as most workers for JPP would have been overseas fifo’s or on 457 visas …
10
woops, missing link …
10
No, with Emerson in charge it’s still “denier central” when it comes to the pause in warming for the last 16 or 17 years. Maybe though it’s karma catching up with Emerson because he’s now officially the DIICC head.
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DIICC HEAD……….LOL
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LOLOLOLL!!!
10
The DIICC Head, love it, this will stick
10
LOLOLOLL * 2!!!
10
Emerson sounds like he’d make a reasonable TERCCIIS head.
00
You? Not so much!!!
00
Try C-CRITICS
30
Now we need to dump the always wrong Climate Commission too. Save a few bob toward the mythical budget surplus.
40
I tried this before, but it was at a Thread that was almost expired, so my guess is that not many people saw it.
Antony Green has his new election calculator out now, and it has an interactive little tab, similar to what the pendulum looks like as you move in the swing and watch for changed seats.
There has been a new Poll released tonight, and it shows (Two Party preferred) Labor at 42% and the Coalition at 58%, so that’s an 8% swing.
Now at the link below, at the top left is the interactive calculator.
Move the small indicator in the middle across to the right to the mark +8% for the Coalition, and have a look at the Blue bar to the right showing Coalition seats.
This does not include the Independents either.
Now, below that are the new seat percentages, and umm, note the one at the top there for Labor, so that seat will be the only remaining Labor Hold in Queensland, and even that is by a hair’s breadth, that’s if he even stands at all.
Oh dear! How Sad!
With that sort of swing, (and I seriously doubt that the swing will be that large at the election) Rankin, in Queensland, the seat held by
Russ Hinze, sorry, Craig Emerson is long gone, and the reference to Russ Hinze is not meant as you might think, but in a former lifetime, that was what Russ was referred to as, the Minister for Everything.Antony Green’s Election Calculator
Tony.
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As I posted recently in NSW there are no real independents, they are dependants on Labor, reccuited by and supported by Labor, led by a so called independent maate of a NSW MP recently referred to the Independent Commission Against Corruption
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Any chance of getting Mr Green to extend the bar to say, 15% ? 🙂
10
And if the Nationals or Liberals could put up a decent candidate in Lynne and New England, that’s another 2 seats to the Libs/Nats
What chance Melbourne (currently Greens) ?
11
In Lyne NSW medical GP David Gillespie is the Nationals candidate again as he was in 2010, in New England the candidate was a NSW independent who recently withdrew following revelations about his friendship with a certain Labor former minister who is before the ICAC, and that he had been the leader of the independent party branch of Labor used to win conservative seats for Labor. His replacement might be National Senator Barnbaby Joyce from Qld who was born and raised in New England, wife too and their children and where his parents remain farmers. He has an accountancy practise and is also a farmer in Qld.
30
“..so that seat will be the only remaining Labor Hold in Queensland, and even that is by a hair’s breadth, that’s if he even stands at all.”
That would probably be a consensus of one. 🙂
I’m not Australian but I’ll probably follow the next elections with interest.
20
Andrew Bolt said today on 2GB that he knew Gary Gray well and that he was a skeptic. I hope it comes out.
Newspoll 58:42. All over Julia.
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Actually, it’s only hours since the announcement and Gary Gray has had to fall into line.
I added this (see the link in the story).
UPDATE: It’s not even day #2 in a new ministership, and suddenly Gary Gray feels he has to join the chorus to declare he is not a skeptic and his former words on Climate Change “embarrass him”. Presumably he had to
towtoe the line, but it’s clumsy — he’s goes too far. The ALP never misses a chance to alienate half the population.How many skeptical voters will feel more represented or respected by the Labor Party now?
Bolt’s views suggest this is what it appears to be — coercion by the crowd.
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Its the new meme, “Social Consensus”.
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Never underestimate the political cunning of Union Labor, they will do anything and say anything if they believe they can win votes. There will be no carbon tax from a government I lead for example
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Exactly right, Dennis, that’s what I’m saying, too. No one should trust ANYTHING they say. I think the protest by Milne is staged so that Green and Labor are seen to separate further in an effort for both to win votes. They’ll be back in bed the minute Gillard wins the election. Not that she will, but let’s not get complacent. I don’t trust any one of them.
I also think Gillard staged the last leadership challenge. It weeded out her enemies (all those who would have backed Rudd). It must be lonely at the Top, and getting lonelier.
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I think we need to be a bit careful here, Jo.
Many in the Liberal Party are also not game to come out with their real thoughts on the climate change issue.
They seem to be scared of the response from the rabid 10% that would never, ever vote for them anyway.. quite odd really.
I just wish the likes of Greg Hunt would wake up to the truth !
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AndyG55,
This tactical silence from Liberal has been the most frustrating/infuriating part of this whole debacle, seriously the number of trade union members who don’t believe CAGW is amazing and a lot will secretly vote Liberal just to have a job for the future.
The only Labor faithful will be the “red raggers” and the dumb converts.
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Carbon Tax is gone, but get rid of the RET as well, and don’t waste money on the Direct Action Plan.
Get rid of renewable subsidies and excessive feed-ins. Build a couple of new big coal fired power stations to bring down the price of electricity. More dams. Get rid of green tape and greatly reduce red tape. Massively reduce Union stand-over powers.
LET AUSTRALIA PROSPER !!
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YES! I’m with you, 100 percent! I think most of us are.
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The Abbott plan
10
Is it correct to say “don’t believe in CAGW”? Perhaps it might be better phrased as “are not yet convinced of CAGW”. I’m a real scientist with a PhD based on laboratory experimentation in the fields of biochemistry, immunology and molecular biology. I’ve been around long enough to know that the more you know the less you know and the science is rarely entirely settled
40
And they are wise not to. While they are silent, Labour and the Greens can only complain about what the Coalition might believe, and what they might do.
To the punters, it looks as though they are just jumping at their own shadows, and desperate to make stuff up, in order to justify their previous actions (which are also a stuff-up).
The quieter the Coalition is, and the more they “keep their powder dry”, on matters of climate change, the more frustrated and strident Labour will become, and that will do them no favours. But they have to continue with it, they cannot walk away.
Pass the popcorn …
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Good point.
It’s quite exciting, really. 🙂 🙂 🙂
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Exactly…. just let the goons continue digging their way to oblivion.
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As far as I can tell, they’ve already dug their way off this planet, so they probably see no reason to stop now…
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I agree that is probably the best policy at the moment.
But I would like to feel, in my own mind, that they were a bit more positive about removing the green garbage that is costing us heaps, and holding back the progress of our nation.
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DICs for short. As in, look at the stupid press release from the bunch of DICs.
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Nothing so traditional, Bruce, the government is all very progressive and inclusive now.
The way to remember the new department is that it is named after all the new sea walls and levees that Labor plans to build along the shoreline to hold back the rising sea levels, all to be built by private contractors to the same rigorous standard as Pink Batts.
Therefore DIICCSRTE is pronounced as “Dykes Ratty”.
(Yes I chose this interpretation amongst… other options… 😉 )
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How many Bruces are there?
This is the third one I have discovered.
Are there more?
Aside from me the rest are impostors.
Bruce
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Well spotted Bruce.
20
The poms call all australian men Bruce
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That’s OK Nigel.;)
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Yeah, John Clark started it. He named all eight of his sons, Bruce, because it saved confusion. Isn’t that right, Bruce?
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LOL, I have 3 friends named Bruce and we regularly play golf together … if I meet somebody at the golf club and introduce them, I just hold out my hand with fingers ‘aspread’ and introduce the 3 of them collectively as “Bruce”.
00
Too many Bruce’s!!!!!
This is just too good to pass up.
University of Woolloomooloo
Tony.
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Thanks TonyfromOz
I was waiting for a fellow python tragic to pick it up, BTW the song is great for learning classic philosophers.
31
There’s a joke doing the rounds about a mother who called all eight of her kids Bruce to save confusion and time when she called them.
When asked what she did if she wanted specific kids, she answered “I just call them by their surname”.
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I dispute that! I am the real Bruce.
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Don’t worry, my fans.
I used to be known as Bruce but that was sooo ugh! conventional!
My new name is β
Stay strong and free forever.
β
😉
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Now I’m totally confused Bruce.
KK
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KK: No confusion at all; ever since I used the Bruce moniker, every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to call himself Bruce. I hope this alleviates the confusion. Bruce
10
Thanks Bruce
So you are not beta Bruce ,
KK 🙂
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What is the likelihood of getting a professional response from either of these gentlemen, before they are booted in September?
Is there any practical way to speed them on their way?
A couple of rats quitting early, out of “love” for the party, ot to do it.
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Jo,
Is Craig Emerson’s hair imported, if so who was the trapper and is the trapper affiliated with WWF ??
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That’s hilarious Rob, the Whyalla Warbler with a non compliant hairpiece!
KK 🙂
30
Emerson and tertiary education … ROTFL
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The minister for “everything we don’t think is important anymore”
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Mind you, they will need the practice of covering many many ministries with one person. 🙂
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Imagine David Jones department Floor with a manager for everywhere
20
PhD in Stupid
20
Can’t wait for all the department of climate change rent seekers to be trashed for good!!!
They’ve had one too many tax payer funded junkets for my liking!
GOOD RIDDANCE TO BAD RUBBISH!!!
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Unfortunately they will not be held to account when all of the doom-mongering is proven to be wrong.
Should Flim Flammery be concerned about any statute of limitations? Probably not as we do not hold politicians to account when they lie.
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How will you know who to reskill if they have disappeared like roaches into a larger department.They had their first wave of redundancies months ago.
10
“Some ARC funded research projects paint people who disagree with Labor policy as mentally inadequate. If you wonder why these projects should get funding from the Australian taxpayer, these are the men now responsible for answering that question.”
This should be the first question asked. The answer is that some on the Left, some in very powerful positions, view themselves as having the duty to change the behavior of citizens who are too stupid or too perverse to change on their own. These Leftists have no intention of engaging in debate with their opponents. The see the question of climate change through the lens of cigarette smoking. They intend to change us for our own good. Any criticisms of climate theory that we might present are viewed as symptoms of our addiction to carbon based fuels. Please ask the question everyone so that we can see what we get as an answer.
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These are The Days of Whine and Moroses for the greens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TpvTEb4BaQ
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This must mean that the Greens will support a no confidence motion. If they feel that the Labor party has completely imploded (which it has), then surely they cannot have confidence.
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On Meet The Press last Sunday extreme Green Milne said that climate change is accelerating.
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It’s like she saw someone driving at 0.8km over the speed limit, and described them as ‘just getting faster and faster.’
50
Milne illustrates her level of intelligence once again. An implosion is by definition internal.
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Yeah, Backslider – watch ’em get out of THAT one. A no confidence motion is the last thing they’ll want, and that does rather give the game away, doesn’t it?
Yes, please, pass the popcorn. This is better than a soap.
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As long as Labor holds onto AGW they are doomed thats why we DO NOT want a skeptic in the Labor party running the show. If they decided to dump carbon tax etc they could very well win next election even with Gillard. Shooo dont say it….
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I doubt they have any chance of another term now, carbon dioxide tax con is only one sin in a long list, for example boarder protection (yes boarder).
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“…Gary Gray feels he has to join the chorus to declare he is not a skeptic and his former words on Climate Change “embarrass him”.”
How many shades of Gary Gray are there? In these insane times, every journalist, politician, and climate “scientist” must say the shibboleth to be part of the in-crowd. How much longer must this go on?
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Maybe he is learning a few tricks from the “real” Julia Gillard… now we have the “real” Gary Gray.
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We certainly have the “real” Labor Party!
30
The Australia that my Auzzie-born Dad was so proud of appears to be almost mortally wounded by the current cretinous crop of Labour politicians and their union masters.
Whatever happened to ‘The Lucky Country’? The land my Dad once eulogised when he recited Lawson’s and Patterson’s odes to Australia and Australians may still be lurking, waiting for the dreadful Socialists to run themselves out of office.
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The Lucky Country was named because despite bad governments that drag the nation backwards we survive and move forward when they are gone. Our luck is surviving bad governments
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Yes.
Apparently the term lucky Country was meant as irony or sarcasm.
Life has always been “hard” here but over the last 40 years it has become decidedly less “fair” to taxpayers
and more “fair” to special elements of society, or even other societies, which have “potential vote power”.
KK
30
KK my frustration is that Australia could be so far ahead now if we had not suffered setbacks from union (Royal Commission essential) and Green Union Labor. There are one in eight herew living in poverty while the corrupt rorters laugh. Latest a senior federal cabinet minister using a Thai massage parlour: see Michael Smith News blog
20
Dennis
The Unions of New York showed the way in how to extract the goodies from the public purse.
Now we have locals doing the same thing.
For twice the market rate we can have :
1. School sun shelters
2. Victorian roads
3. Desalination plants
Some of the workers received above award wages, part of the deal so that they would VOTE where it counted.
Many however only got a “little bit” extra and the bulk of the scim went to the “entrepreneurs” and Union Management who stood in the middle.
The only remedy for this theft is continued and unrelenting EXPOSURE in as many public media outlets as possible; after that gossip will spread the bad news as has already happened with the HSU.
KK 🙂
10
We’ve moved on from Lawson and Patterson- now its Monsignor John O’Brien- you know the one
“We’ll all be rooned said Flannraham…”
20
Well the singing minister is a very close friend
20
So the most pressing problem of our generation now sits alongside a few other issues as just one of those things governments attempt to manage and usually botch. Ok thats good at least now we are all on the same page LOL. Classic!
Im so glad through all the loss of friends, loss of credibility (not with anyone that matters) threats from my workplace (wind turbine supplier) and family wanting to disown me for me views, it turns out now even the perpetrators of the myth are walking away from it. Just goes to show, one way or another the truth will work its way through.
Huzzah to all of you who have kept your nerve and kept your wits against all odds and all the hype.
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The political left never walk away, they go underground and plot to achieve their goals another way, crafting new ways to present the gullible with the same agenda with a new attractive sugar coating or threat to humanity. They have been doing this since at least the late 1800s when the socialist Fabian Society was formed in England by George Bernard Shaw and comrades. The extreme Greens are fellow travellers.
150
Spot on!!!
10
Safetyguy66, I hear ya mate LOL, I have a younger sibling who worked in the Department of climate change and we have barely spoken for years, I think they are a bit embarrassed now and maybe the wounds will never heal?, I’m also waiting for a bunch of local “eco warriors” to come and “sort me out” still waiting, maybe they need more troops after all there’s one of me.
I think everyone will have a story to tell and people should hear them.
70
O/T with apologies,
Cyprus banking dramas and the requisition of depositors funds remains the most significant event in the world at present, in spite of its scant MSM coverage,IMHO. Senior Eurocrat Djisselboem has just let the world know, if anyone is listening(!), that the deal cut to bypass parliamentary votes and enforce this theft is the “template” for bank restructuring around Europe. The feral cat is quite literally out of the bag, and I firmly believe we have just had our Archduke Ferdinand moment. Watch this space.
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Winston
The comment may not be completely off topic.
The Global Warming scam is the main topic here and our revelations on that subject are showing us more and more that governments will do whatever they like with our money regardless of science or mandate from voters.
I have not gone into this very much in the sense of who lives where but it appears that Cypress may be part Greek and part Turkish?
It appears that it is the Greek affiliated part which is in trouble, which probably means that the political approach to money is the issue.
That individual bank accounts are now being taken because of political mismanagement is appalling.
As you say: watch this space; it ain’t over yet.
KK
60
KK,
The link between confiscation of Russian oligarch money, along with everyday depositors as collateral damage, and an evolving situation in Russian supported Syria just across the pond hasn’t escaped my notice either. If I was a depositor in any Euro bank, particularly in Spain or Italy, I would be acting now because they are next. And, yes, it runs to statism and all its glaring flaws as a paradigm, inevitably devolving into running roughshod over the law, destroying the pillars and the foundations of society until all that is left is anarchy. Then, the tanks will roll in.
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Wow, very observant. 🙂
So is this a US ploy to muck Russia over the Syria issue?
KK
10
Perhaps, just speculating mind you, that some of that money may have been earmarked for weapons to reinforce Assad loyalists, so tying it up or redirecting it might be all that is necessary shift the balance in favour of the Al Qaeda backed rebel forces. The aim seems to be to destabilise the entire region and further isolate Iran, and it doesn’t seem to matter who they are facilitating in the process.
I find it hard to believe that the EU and the US aren’t in consultation in this, and that the aims are purely financial, though establishing a precedent for the deconstruction of democracy and the seizure of assets is certainly a bonus, perhaps a prelude for doing us all over with the same process in the not too distant future.
20
Suspension of democracy
Theft from the people
Nope i think thats about right on topic Winston
30
Yep, Winston, I’ve been watching financial Europe for a while now (as far as one can through the media). There is a lot of pressure in several places, but too early to call a bigger dust-up coming yet. It was interesting to see the passion on the faces of the Cypriots around the March 19-20 vote re bailout.
20
Geoff,
It’s hard to know the mood of the people as they may have restricted access to information about what’s going on, but, when they find out about bank raids in Cyprus that may be the nail in the coffin for the European Union.
All that Brussels has done before has been mixed up with a bit of pseudo legalese to confuse EU residents about the use of their money.
This bank thing has no such cover and will be a different animal.
Bank runs? Huge anti Brussels sentiment ? The end of the EU?
There are going to be a lot of unhappy people in the EU in the very near future.
Interesting times.
KK 🙂
20
Interesting point, Winston.
Coincidentally perhaps, I recall an issue I saw reported a few years ago: Germany was a bit unhappy with the amount of money Germans were stashing away in foreign accounts.
Now if the “Eurozone” starts frightening depositors within Eurozone countries, then presumably Germany is going to appear as the safest haven….. Et voilà !
20
An independent Department of Climate Change had a life expectancy of minutes under a Coalition regime.
I wonder which department/s will be winners when it’s the turn of the ABC?
100
Firing Public Servants is reckoned to be bad karma, so you just can’t arbitrarily shut down a whole department, just like that. If you did, people would steal the inkwells, and their favorite quill, on their way out.
So the usual bureaucratic process is to merge two departments into one, and change the name of the resulting department into something non-specific. That is what has happened in this case.
The next step is to introduce a hiring freeze, and to reassign the people into new roles within the department whenever somebody leaves. By this process of attrition, you either end up getting rid of all the people from the “redundant” department, or you rehabilitate them into more productive roles elsewhere.
Eventually all that remains of the old “redundant” department is its name on the building directory board.
The next time two departments are merged, the building directory board will be redone, and the “redundant” department name disappears entirely at that point.
60
DIICCSRTE.
It really rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it? DIICCSRTE
She/He’s a right DIICCSRTE, isn’t he/she?
What a complete DIICCSRTE!
That policy has been DIICCSRTED for the time being.
Pure schadenfreude every time you hear it. How will anyone keep a straight face when the minister fronts the media.
I LIKE it!
80
I think you ozzies have a gift in that if you quickly establish the”correct” pronouciation as “Dickshite”.
20
…sorry, is that what you were saying.
31
No, I think he was saying, “Dick’s right”, although I still need to establish which dick he is referring to, and what he is correct about.
40
The only way the ALP can avoid a total dumping at the next election is by the suspension of democracy.
Be very wary !! Its just the sort of thing they could try !
91
That’s amusing. So if you’re so keen on debate Nova why don’t you get involved in the debate rather than this ridiculous blog? I await your first peer reviewed paper refuting the science of AGW. Your chance to prove all those real scientists that you’re not just a Tea Party blogger. They might even take you seriously. Good luck!
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Still waiting for a peer review paper that proves the non-science of AGW..
It has never gone past the hypothesis stage, if it ever even reached that far.
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Andy, agreed;
There is NO testable Hypothesis on CO2 and “Warming”.
Peripheral commentary about things like “hotspots” is junk science and off target and deception and spin.
So perhaps the real climate science is at the bottom of the Atlantic and will come to the top at some toime in the future. That observation is also obviously waffle, but it is about as relevant as comments on G spots, sorry Hots spots.
KK 🙂
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Mann etal. are still suffering from data constipation… !
Its in there somewhere (they say).. they just can’t seem to produce it.
50
So the null hypothesis, that there is no run-away causative relationship between CO2 and temperature, in a free atmosphere, still holds.
So JFC, the ball is in your court to demonstrate, through empirical means, that the null hypothesis is wrong.
70
That’s how it’s done in real SCIENCE.
KK 🙂
20
Where were you for the Apollo thread? We missed your “input”.
this ridiculous blog?
70
Do you think that you are debating when you submit an article for peer review? Do you think that you have won a debate when your article is accepted for publication? Do you believe that all debates should be limited to peer reviewed publications? Why do you believe these preposterous ideas? Please explain.
180
Yes, most warmists do think that.
“My paper has been peer reviewed and published so it is truth. If you do not accept this truth, you are a filthy d[Self SNIP]r”
110
Ain’t that the truth… and JFC just proved he is a true believer.
50
Well Theo, it’s just the way scientific debate progresses. In exactly the same way that nobody has been able to come up with a credible alternative to the theory of evolution the same can be said for AGW. Hate to break it to you but blogging is not actual science. It’s just your unsupported opinion which is pretty much worthless. Given the mountain of evidence (and growing daily I see with another paper out recently) the burden of proof is on you to knock it over. I note that Watt’s “killer blow paper” is still yet to be published. The scientific community must be trembling in it’s collective boots for that one. Not.
022
A hope you are referring to Marcott et’al.. not long before that gets withdrawn completely. Its a load of junk.
And sorry, but the burden of proof is STILL on the CAGW bretheren, and they STILL have not produced anything, after all these years.
Nada, Zip, NOTHING !!!!!
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16 years of basically nothing in the way of temperature rise,
And its going to so much fun watching you morons over the next few years as temperatures start to drop.
Keep wetting your pants, little child.
90
as Jo Jo said already its statistically cooling for the past 8 years!!! its game over for the bed wetters!!!
07
What Jo said was “I’m not even saying that the world is definitely cooling”.
Do you ever get depressed that you have to cherry pick and misquote to “make” a point?
103
I think the information Jo put forward in that thread showed that cooling maybe perhaps have started. Not significant, quite yet.
I expect a steeper downward slope to gradually develop as we drop off the slight plateau.
How much will depend on what Sol decides to do., but looks rather sleepy at the moment and for quite a while in the future.
20
sorry i guess i messed up what to think when you said the last eight years is statistically significant
25
Don’t be so harsh on yourself Quack. I too read Jo Jo’s words:
and foolishly thought that meant there was cooling in 4/5 datasets over the past 8 years and that the cooling was statistically significant.
But Jo’s version of statistical significance is different to everyone elses.
25
Hang on a sec, your making a basic error of logic here.
If we are “skeptics” / “deniers” that means we must be skeptical and in denial of a proposition right ?
Therefore the as a condition precedent to being skeptical or in denial one must be skeptical or in denial of “something”
So the original argument and the one that therefore carries the burden of proof os that of AGW, not those questioning it.
So whether blogging is science or not is a rather moot point when the burden of proof is on the claimant, namely you.
So put up or shut up! Your long on one liners and short on evidence Pal, its getting old.
120
JFC you are simply wrong. Climate change is not like two sporting teams, each with the sole goal to win the game. In real life there are a few people at these extremes, with most people having positions somewhere between.
A good deal of blogging places valuable new insights onto developing ideas. You cannot judge the quality of such insights by noting only where they are published, the old “Don’t judge a book by its cover”.
Heavens, man, I’ve 3 grandchildren whose futures interest me a great deal. I try to make my blog comments constructive, not relentlessly critical, because I want a better world for them. At the moment, a lot of people globally are doing some major financial and planning changes that threaten that better world. If I can, in my tiny way, show them where there is a better approach, I feel bound to do so. But, that requires a positive contribution, not a sour snipe.
Can you say with honesty that you have never found benefit from an idea or concept or analysis found on Jo Nova?
What would you regard as a useful comment by a blogger on Jo Nova over the last week or so? Please give us some help to understand you by quoting an example.
120
… the sound of Crickets, at dusk, descends over the debate …
20
… and tumbleweeds roll by. JFC and Nice One keenly await the provision of a team approved response from the cartoonist at SkS.
20
Hi JFC…
The peer review process is broken across multiple disciplines.
Your faith in what get’s through peer review is misplaced.
30
I would suggest that it is the way that Post-Modern Science is taught in schools, that is broken.
The fact that they are being retracted/rejected at such a high rate indicates that the peer review process is not broken … yet. But it probably will be, once all of the real scientists have retired or died.
20
JFC … the burden of proof rests with the party making the hypothesis. Now if the hypothesis is remotely correct, then where is the measurement of the tropospheric ‘hot spot’, where is the measurement of the heat hiding in the deep oceans, where is the demonstrable proof that the claimed CO2 warming if forced by water vapour into what amounts to a perpetual energy creation mechanism, why is there still snow, how come there are 5x more polar bears, why is there still ice in the Arctic, why are actual measurements of climate so disparate from Mann’s claims and testimonies ??? … these are all thing predicted by the CAGW models and the High Priests. In short the whole things is BOLLOCKS !! Mindless made up and far-fetched claims with no foundations in SCIENTIFIC FACT.
It is 100% a social agenda that has succeeded in corrupting science, government, charity, NGO’s, academia, and corporations … all lying through their teeth to get a piece of the action.
40
… and all while CO2 in the atmosphere continues to climb.
10
Our friend JFC keeps discussions on this blog interesting, much like MattB and John Brookes does.
JFC says…
It’s safe to assume that, as with most other CAGW alarmists, JFC believes only what’s written in the almighty peer reviewed literature. Peer reviewed literature is where it’s at, everything else is…well, unbelievable and not “real science”.
Isn’t that right JFC?
Therefore, the advances of mans knowledge and true science must have begun when peer reviewed literature first began to be used.
I wonder when that was?
Science and all knowledge worth knowing (or at least worth paying attention to) began in 1731 or thereabouts. Isn’t that right JFC?
Hmmm, I guess Galileo was just a blogger’ of his time. Not a single peer reviewed paper did he publish.
Kepler? Same, no peer reviewed papers, another ‘blogger’.
Descartes’? Meditations and Principles of Philosophy and Treatise on man were ‘blog posts’ coz they surely weren’t peer reviewed.
Newton? Blogger. Cassini? Blogger. Leibniz, Borelli Locke Petty da Vinci, Aristotle Archimedes etc etc bloggers one and all, NOT A SINGLE PEER REVIEWED PAPER AMONG THEM.
Yes folks, get with the programme, if it ain’t peer reviewed, it ain’t science, it can just be thrown in the dustbin.
If it ain’t peer reviewed, it can’t possibly advance our knowledge.
Isn’t that right JFC? C’mon man, back me up here.
70
KFC, the day any of your spineless scientific jokes posing as people, publicly debate the likes of Jo Nova or David Evans I might have the ever so slightest respect for their effort.
Until then troll away coward.
130
Well Yonnie the day Nova or Evan’s publish a peer reviewed paper refuting the theory of AGW I might have the slightest respect for them. Until then I’ll stick with the mainstream science which can actually back up it’s claims.
125
So you are saying …lets get this exactly like what you are saying:
“until the day Jo Nova publishes a peer reviewed article disproving the existence of poltergeist hauntings we should believe they exist”.
OR
“Until the day someone publishes a peer reviewed scientific paper disproving the theory that KFC is a dickhead we are obligedto accept that you are”.
THE ONUS IS ON THE PARTY MAKING THE ALLEGATION OR THEORETICAL CLAIM TO SHOW THAT IT IS VALID, NOT ON EVERYONE ELSE TO DISPROVE IT. Otherwise we would have to believe everything ever claimed by anyone.
Pillock.
140
…in the instance of the second hypothesis above, I think we can say it has been fairly well confirmed.
70
Or as they like to say in a certain branch of mathematics, some things are just intuitively obvious.
40
Ace,
What you are trying to say is that you cannot prove a negative, its a bit like Iran. The Israelis and the Americans are frothing at the mouth claiming Iran is building a nuke, Iran counter that claim and say they are not. The response is then “prove it”, prove you are NOT building a bomb, so the question is how in heavens name would one prove they are not doing something.
More relevant………how could one prove AGW does not exist when they dont claim it exists in the first place?
This is a classic ploy by the warmbots, bereft of evidence to support there own religious version of the end of days they try and deflect their own inadequacies and force them onto you.
80
“You cannot prove a negative” is one of the dumbest cliches ever.
Prove to me theres nothing in that box.
OK, Ill open the box and show you.
Well now, that just proves a negative.
You were berating some troll for dragging tea party into our club as something irrelevant to its fun bubbly CO2 party atmosphere but now you are doing the same with Iran. BTW, its not an acronym for Tax Enough Already, its a reference to the Boston tea party, the tax rebellion that preceded the war of independence.
I know where you are coming from. I will credit you for this: most haters of Israel automatically default to being CAGW with it. All part of the same Neo Marxist global orientation. Whereas on those two issues you at least show independence of thought on one. Heres a suggestion, why not try thinking for yourself about Israel as well as about the climate?
We don’t want Iran to prove anything. We simply don’t want them to have the ability to DO anything. It is utterly irrelevant as to why they want an industrial capability that may or may not be to build nuclear weapons. All that matters is that nobody who gives a shit about anything wants them to have that capability.
Its not about the USA or Israel. Its about whether you are tolerant of a thousand evils and those who are responsible. Just one of those is enough to make my mind up. A society which savagely mutilates the genitals of its own female children is a society that needs to be dismantled. We cannot do that except by waiting for them to do it themselves. But allowing them to do ANYTHING that enables or empowers them is to tolerate the rankest of evils.
Thats what you lefties do isnt it, fantasise about treating everyone equally. But if you treat everyone equally that means you are willing to tolerate a hundred million clitoral ablations. That makes you either callous, ignorant of the realities or evil yourself.
I dont want to be nasty because I like the fact you are a Lefty who thinks for himself on at least one issue. I liked your wrestle with the Stylo buffoon. Though I still say “Japanese photographs of the landing sites” would have been sufficient.
But in my estimation, with all due respect, on that other issue, well, you are a kapo.
22
Ace,
That is stretched too far, on so many levels.
For a start, at sea level, there is air in the box. So your demonstration would only be true under the special case of being conducted in a perfect vacuum.
Then at a philosophical level, there is still volume in the box, unless the box is infinitely small, in which case it is not a box at all.
And at the political level, you are extrapolating a singular combination of factors into a general principle – that is bad logic. (And despite your response, Crakar’s example made his point quite clearly).
And finally you descend to ad homenem comments and generalisations.
I am quite surprised, that you have not been moderated.
60
What Rereke said.
Opening the box to reveal what looks like nothing is not proving there is nothing in the box. Unfortunately for far too many commenters in this blog though it is perfectly acceptable, “I don’t need any other evidence, I know what my eyes tell me. Scientific instruments be dammed.”
So, anyway, you are wrong, you can’t prove there is nothing in the box.
22
Can’t we all just… get along? 🙂
But yeah Ace, we have done fairly well leaving geopolitics out of most discussions.
Perhaps you can save it up for the next Weekend Unthreaded?
While the “can’t prove a negative” phrase interpreted literally indeed paints with a rather broad brush, as Rereke says there was enough specific examples by Crakar to see what he meant.
It’s more true to say that the non-existence of a phenomenon is frequently infeasible to prove.
Other kinds of existential negatives can be absolutely proven, such as “there isn’t a cockroach in this shoebox.” Negatives of universal quantifiers can be difficult to substantiate depending on observational economics, such as “not all footballs are 21cm in diameter”.
Yet more negatives can be substantiated statistically with high confidence under some prior assumption of frequency distribution, such as “it is false that most footballs are 19cm in diameter” which can be observationally tested assuming there is no secret warehouse holding more 19cm footballs than there are total footballs in the rest of the world.
I don’t know of any absolute rule either way. Some negatives are provable, some aren’t.
40
The point is that there is nothing solid for the realist to disprove.
No-one has ever proved that AGW exists, let alone CAGW.
Its all hypothesis, conjecture…… an idiot’s idea.
20
Rereke et al, you are engaging in the futility of arguing over infinite potential re-definitions of terms with obvious shared reference. The point is that the phrase “You cannot prove a negative” is meaningless. Indeed an example of the very thing it was earlier used to assert (ie, there is no onus on anyone to prove anything but those who make a positive contention).
01
That’s just the sort of badgering that could encourage Iran to build a bomb.
10
Did I spot an ad hom there Ace?
05
So the only thing you got out of what Ace said was the little ad hom?
Completely missed his point about burden of proof?
10
Yep you certainly did JFC, you see people like Ace are no better than the people they deride (thats you JFC).
Notice how he is nice as pie to me but not nice to you and then i use Iran as an example to prove a negative and suddenly i am as bad as you.
I like the way he entwines Israel or at least my percieved hatred of it into his own reality in order to give him a soap box to stand on. This is typical of his ilk, if you agree with him then you get on fine but if you dont then there will be hell to pay.
So in the end JFC you and i are the same at least in the eyes of Ace and what was this outburst based on? Well it was based on the fact that the government of Isreal (and the USA) claim Iran is building a bomb (proving a false negative) now did Ace produce anything to the contrary? No because he has nothing so i guess that makes him a believer to.
But not a believer in everything only the things he chooses to believe in, no evidence required apparently and God help anyone who disagrees even in the slightest.
Now piss off and talk to me again Ace.
31
Well this is a little embarrassing, obviously the last line was supposed to read
Now piss off and dont talk to me again Ace, sorry for any confusion caused
61
Craker:
“Yep you certainly did JFC, you see people like Ace are no better than the people they deride (thats you JFC).”
Why the hell should I have to be “better” than the people I deride.
“Notice how he is nice as pie to me but not nice to you and then i use Iran as an example to prove a negative and suddenly i am as bad as you.”
BUT……thats exactly the OPPOSITE of what I said!
“I like the way he entwines Israel or at least my percieved hatred of it into his own reality in order to give him a soap box to stand on. This is typical of his ilk, if you agree with him then you get on fine but if you dont then there will be hell to pay.”
The answer to the first part is that my perceptions of you are based on your previous rants about Israel being nasty to the fascists who have vowed to slaughter them. The answer to the secondpart isthat, again, its the exact opposite of what I wrote!
AS for…
“So in the end JFC you and i are the same at least in the eyes of Ace and what was this outburst based on? Well it was based on the fact that the government of Isreal (and the USA) claim Iran is building a bomb (proving a false negative) now did Ace produce anything to the contrary? No because he has nothing so i guess that makes him a believer to.”
THE WHOLE POINT of my comment was that it is utterly irrelevant what Iran intends to do, the only thing that is of relevance is that we dont want them to have the CAPACITY to do it. We know they are assembling the capacity, because they keep boasting about each piddly milestone they make.
Lets put this in terms even a complete fecking idiot can understand:
You dont need to believe a ten year old wants to shoot dead his ,other to know that its not a good idea to give a gun to a ten year old.
Belief doesnt come into it. And I really cannot believe how utterly determined you are to stick to YOUR belief, an article of faith in fact, that America and Israel are big baddies bullying poor little Iran. What a complete CHILD you are.
Now answer me a straight question about your beliefs? Weve previously seen your lengthy expressionsof hatred of Israel. Do you believe its tolerable to allow people to remove the clitoris and partially sew shut the vagina of their daughter? That is a fundamental practice throughout the region, both Arab and Persian, and by defending those societies you side with those who perpetrate such an abomination. Not occasionally, but by the millions. In Egypt for example, 60% of all Muslim women have had that done to them in their childhood.
You defend those societies. As I said, you are a kapo.
01
Ace,
There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding my statement “you cannot prove a negative”. I do think there is hope for you (not like a small % of people here hence this comment) so i will start from the basics and build up from there and hopefully at the end of this you will have learnt something.
Firstly to the statement, if some thing does not exist how do you prove it does not exist if it never existed in the first place? Ever tried to prove to a believer that God does not exist?
If AGW does not cause floods and droughts etc then how are you supposed to prove it did not when challenged to do so? There is no evidence to show it did not happen only if it did, do you understand now? If not let me know and i will try another approach.
Now onto my example of Iran as this seemed to ruffle your feathers and i will digress a little at the end so as to broaden your knowledge on this subject a little more.
But first lets talk about uranium, uranium in its raw form (yellow cake) is not much good for anything so to make it useful you need to enrich it in a centrifuge, to use it in a nuclear reactor for the purposes of power generation you need to enrich it to 5%, for use in medicine (medical isotopes) the enrichment required is 20%, for use as a nuclear bomb the enrichment required is 95%.
Now if you have a chunk of yellow cake it will have an atomic weight, if you enrich it to what ever % it will still have the same atomic weight.
Now lets move on to Iran, Iran signed the NNPT and the co signatories included the USA, Russia and France. All countries wishing to enter the nuclear age must/should sign a NNPT (some countries refuse why dont you research that). Russia supplied the knowledge to build the reactors and France supplied the yellow cake and Iran conducted the enrichment but as per the NNPT guidelines Iran must (and have) allow UN inspectors to inspect all sites related to there nuclear program.
Shortly after this process began some countries declared that Iran was building a bomb and then applied sanctions to the Iranian government and by logical extension its people. The UN inspectors have continually entered Iran but as yet have found no evidence to support the allegations and sanctions.
What evidence? Well we know how much yellow cake they received from France (atomic weight) so it is a simple matter of accounting for that yellow cake and when the inspectors do that they find that all the uranium (enriched yellow cake) can be accounted for and it is either enriched to 5% or 20%.
Therefore we know that none of the uranium has been put aside for further enrichment (95%) and without additional uranium it is impossible for them to build a bomb……….would you agree Ace?
Therefore when certain countries claim Iran is building a bomb and Iran say we are not, when the UN inspectors say they are not then they are not. However this is not enough for some and they demand Iran show proof they are not building a bomb but how could they prove something does not exist? What evidence could Iran produce that shows they are not doing something?
How do you prove a negative???????????????
Now i understand this is a lot of information for you to take in (must be like drinking from a fire hose) but i am going to go one step further in an effort to continue with your enlightenment.
By now you are probably thinking “if they are not building a bomb then why are we so determined to attack them?” and that is a very good question Ace and I have a theory as to why, however I am not going to hand the answer to you on a plate but I will point you in the right direction for you to discover the facts for yourself (better to do it yourself rather than to be told) so here is a hint.
Before the invasion of Afghanistan, what did the following countries have in common, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria and the answer “they were all lead by crazy dictators” whilst technically correct is not the right answer in this case.
If you look at these countries now you will find they no longer have this one thing in common, do you know what that is?
I am feeling generous Ace so here is one more hint, Iceland used to have one but they don’t anymore so we don’t talk about Iceland when the topic is money its taboo just like you dare not mention Mac Beth whilst in a theatre.
Now surely I have given you ample information to figure it out, let me know when you do.
10
Peer review is corrupt as fuck little moron.
Real debates happen between people communicating in a free and open forum.
This is something the climate scientists never do because they have got no evidence.
Instead they hide behind their peer review process .
131
I like your style Sonny, abrupt and to the point, i have on occasions been accused of that myself.
50
Can’t think why, I always thought you were quite restrained in your comments 😉
40
I try to be but by God it is hard.
20
One thing we are establishing, with ever increasing certainty, is that JFC has never worked in a serious scientific research environment.
20
JFC has never worked… period. !!
00
I think you may be under estimating the decline.
00
In the world according to parasitic bullies it’s a case of “the world is doomed, pay us your money unless you can prove me wrong”.
In the world of science, we say: “So you still can’t find one paper to back up your claim?”
140
KFC – Stay back after school and write out 100 times: ‘Misused apostrophes and commas can mislead, distort meaning and interrupt the flow of a sentence.’
40
Since when was Climate Science mainstream 😕
10
Since when has Climate Science been mainstream 😕 I wouldn’t go quite so far as Pachauri’s expression for Science he’s not impressed with, but its handling of uncertainty has become rather hijacked by those who would rather exploit than bother to understand or explain it.
20
Clearly you don’t know how science works. You are arguing from ignorance. A logical fallacy.
00
That’ll be the day that the warmista stump up with the factual measurements to support their contemptuous claims.
10
“Until then I’ll stick with the mainstream science which can actually back up it’s claims” THUD! sorry had to get off the floor I laughed so hard!
If mainstream science is to launch ad hominem attacks and make “denier” lists for public display (how very third reich) then there is no point in you posting here unless it’s some sad way to make up for your real world inadequacies.
50
IF you’re so frigging smart JFC – why don’t you agree to a debate with Jo Nova – and let’s all watch so we can see you attempt to prove your superior intelligence – HA!!
BTW – Feel free to call Jo “Jo” or “Ms Nova” or “Jo Nova” – funny how we can all guess your age by your demonstrated lack of manners – ignoramus!!
Cheers,
90
Is it the Left who reserve their manners for those they agree with, while Jo tolerates all comers.
40
Jesus F………….g Christ,
Tea party blogger???? The “tea” in tea party stands for TAX ENOUGH ALREADY and bears no relevance to what is discussed here on a daily basis, you really have screwed the pooch this time.
Suggest you go back whence you came, have a rethink, reload with some other crap and come back here and try again.
80
You can kiss me again, JFC.
No smile this time.
20
“No smile this time.”
And no tongue, either !!!!!!!
00
And this blog, like WUWT, is at the FOREFRONT of the actual debate.
There are actually quite a few people here with BSc’s, BEng (plus the occasional BArts troll).
And WUWT has visits from the cream of the real climate scientists, while the trough dwellers of the CAGW meme generally avoid it because they KNOW they will be shot down in flames, with real scientific arguement.
Maybe once you get out of high school (2-3 years?), you will start to learn and understand.
But you have a long way to go.
10
JFC
Please explain, for my enlightenment, the difference between Atmospheric Physicists, Meteorologists, and Climatologists. And then explain in what way Climate Scientists are different from these other three disciplines.
When we have established that, and removed any confusion, perhaps we can move forward to having a reasonable discussion?
60
JFC? Thats Julia’s Fried Chicken is it?
20
Go wash your bed linen (again!).
10
Is that DIICCSRTE?
Re-assembling the above, a more appropriate anagram for the Real Department of Funny Walks is, RuDISLECTIC, as their double speak is a tad jumbled.
Imagine a three legged race with Gillard, Milne and two of the amigo’s, all keeping in step? That’s the new “super department”.
20
They have dumped all the things they don’t give a stuff about any more into one portfolio, ..
then put the dancing queen in charge.
30
How would you pronounce it, DIICCSRTED ?
Like D’E’S’E’R’T’E’D perhaps ?
50
Or perhaps the
Deception Institute Incorporating Credible and Correct Science Rotated To Ensure Disinformation.
50
It’s getting tough when you need a mnemonic to remember the acronym.
00
At my age, I need to drag the mnemonic’s out frequently.
00
Pedant note – I think the term is “..toe the line”, not “tow”. I could be wrong!
No need to publish etc.
Congratulations on the “webbies” by the way, great site and thanks for all you do. From a pom.
80
Johnbuk ,
You`re correct with “Toe the line” , in reference to politics it`s origin is in the British House of Commons.Back in the days when gentlemen went armed with swords , to deter the members of opposing parties from attacking each other physically when the arguments became heated , two parallel red lines were marked , two sword-lengths apart, on the floor of the house. MPs were expected to stay behind these lines when a speech is in progress and often members would “toe the line” to display commitment to their side of the house .
40
Those lines are still there. Or at least they were when I worked in Whitehall.
20
The lines are still there but I suspect gentlemen and swords are both on the critically endangered list
00
Yes, johnbuk, I woke up this morning and read the post again and fixed that. It was 2am. I wondered if anyone noticed. Well spotted. Jo
20
I’m surprised no one’s mentioned Emerson’s Whyalla wipeout song, any insights into the mental condition of someone who would do that?
30
http://youtu.be/L1pEt7bgY2U
40
Yes, well he shouldn’t give up his day job … OMG, what am I saying …?
10
And the inevitible, but funny
http://youtu.be/CrQzXtgaFC0
20
Hey, I have referred to him as the “dancing queen”, isn’t that enough 😉
20
Funny, but could be an insult to queen’s everywhere, I saw that performance with some people from OS and they would not believe Emerson was an Australian minister, they thought it was a comedy sketch, seriously!
I was so embarrassed to be an Australian that day.
30
OK, the dancing drongo… (sorry for the insult, all you queens out there)
The only drogos here are JB, KFC etc.. and I couldn’t give a rat’s about insulting them.
20
They may have downgraded it but are still spending near enough as much taxpayers funds and now the dept. is buried. Out of sight out mind. I’d prefer the target where I can see it.
Slightly off topic. Dr Tim Ball in an interview made a nice quote when discussing the attacks from AGW worshippers. He said that pilots in WWII had a saying “The flack gets heavier when you’re over the target.”
I thought it was very descriptive.
60
While we’re all in pedant mode- that’s “flak”, not flack.
It’s also an acronym. (Flugzeugabwehrkanone- perhaps someone else in pedant mode can correct that spelling if necessary.)
00
So much is Orwellian these days that it makes a change for something Orwellian to be on a lighter note.
Orwell wrote scathingly about the corruption of figurations in speech into glib, misunderstood cliches.
One that he chose as an example was how the phrase “toe the line” (meaning running ones toe against but not step over the mark) had by then already sunk into “tow the line” (a phrase with no meaning whatsoever).
20
As you say. modern parlance should be “toe the line”… but
there is an English phrase “tow the line” which basically means “lots of hard work” and is related to using lines to “tow” canal boats. Usually done by horse, but in tight situations human labour had to occasionally be used.
The UK canal system still exists and is actually undergoing re-invigoration as a tourist thing. Petrol or diesel engines are used nowadays of course.
20
I think your version was made up by someone to try to validate “tow the line”. Its baloney. Lets face it, if you tow a tow boat you would say “tow the boat”.Who tows a load and says hes only towing the rope? And anyway, it bears no relationship at all to the sense in which it is used.
00
Ace, are you saying that both “toe,tow” phrases mean for the person to submit to a rule or as Pointman suggests two boxers taking up the challenge and following the rules?
Sorry but the English language interests me.
20
Indeed. Most languages are precise, and follow some sort of order. English is what you get when you take most of the European languages, and some Asian words, and put them through a food processor*, rather than a word processor.
But that is fair. Because all peoples, from every nation, have an opportunity to become totally confused, and misunderstood, in equal measure.
That’s why it’s the language of commerce, init.
* blender, to our American friends, who only pretend to speak English, when they are not insulting each other in Spanish.
10
Congratulations Rereke on acquiring the contemporary Anglo-Inidianism “innit”. I love that expression.
Apparently there are at least 300 Hindi words used in “English”. So well blended that most of them we never recognise as imports. I cant tell you what 200 plus of those words are but the obvious are things like verandah, gymkana, pyjama, jodhpur, tiffin.
Theres a great book (in both senses) from the Imperial era called “Hobson Jobson”, a dictionary of Anglo-Indian usage. Full of curiosities.
20
Don’t trust Milne any more than Gillard! These women stage scenes to make it look as though Gillard is backing down from climate – she is NOT. She wants to win the election and that is all! The moment she is in again, tackling the climate will be right back up there as number one priority. The Department of Climate will be reinstated, likely with double the staff, and that lying [self-snip] will be right back to screwing the people!
DON’T TRUST ANYTHING ANY OF THEM SAY!!!
81
Of course this is a retreat, and not merely symbolic. Once the Department of Climate Hysteria is merged into the Department of Industry and Allsorts, its staff can quietly be assigned to more useful duties within the larger department. This is the way governments have always got rid of redundant agencies without admitting their mistake.
70
See 18.1
00
DIICCSRTE looks like a dyslexic discrete backdown.
20
So what happens to Dr Flannery ?
20
Last seen selling Panasonic TV’s in a Harvey Norman commercial.
20
Ugggh.
Forgot about that.
I just purchased a new TV and it’s a Panasonic.
I feel so dirty.
40
So that’s Harvey Norman’s down the tubes, then.
20
Don’t worry, Harvey Norman can’t afford Flannraham. It takes a government purse.
00
So much mis-information in one link.
Each point easily debunked if one could be bothered (again), but, you can have a little fun with musical instrument mix.
Catastrophic Alarmist Global WarmingClimate change: re-mixed10
You forgot to put your hand gently on my forearm and remind me “capping CO2, thats a good thing, good thing”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgAB9aVSLnI
Im all straightened out now thanks.
20
Maybe the Lame Duck pulled the plug because she went to http://www.iceagenow.info and read this?
“This weather is for the March truly extraordinary,” says Frank Boettcher from the Institute of Weather and Climate Communication. “In Hamburg, there was an average of 3.5 degrees colder than normal.”
And the snow! Even snowplows voiced concern over the snow, which blocked roads and caused countless jams.
In Fuhlsbüttel a new all-time snow record for the month of March was set: 28 inches! The former Hamburg snow-in-March-peak value of 1 March 1979 was 27 centimeters.
And it gets worse! Ostholstein on Tuesday should get up to 15 centimeters of new snow. In Hamburg, it can be up to five.
“In the middle of next week, we do not expect significant changes,” says Boettcher. “It is even possible that this weather lasts until Easter.”
20
As the CAGW meme melts, there will be silly lost sheeple hoping to be rescued by the more intelligent and technologically competent. Is that you in this linked clip JB? …. or maybe its JFC?, you all kind of look and sound the same…
30
Sounds like a schism brewing in the Aus branch of the Church of Climate Consensus …
Pointman
80
“he had to tow the line”
Jo! I’m shocked! I thought only semi-literate Americans did not know that it is “TOE the line”.
(Though if you are using dictation software you can be forgiven. Mine once wrote “unrepented” when I said “independent”.)
—-
REPLY: Yes, Darn! I added the update at 2am and knew it was wrong this morning. Shucks I hoped I might have gotten away with it. Shame I need to sleep. — J
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Quite correct RoHa. The expression comes from the early days of Pugilism. A rope laid between the boxers, which they both had to toe up to.
Pointman
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hear hear!
?
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here here?
KK 🙂
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Another usage is from ferocious 18th C Royal Navy discipline, when the sailors had line up on deck for inspections, floggings, rum, sea burials, and other entertainments.
20
Sleep? You need sleep? I thought you were beyond such mortal frailties.
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Note to Greens: It’s not a ‘symbolic retreat’ it’s a ‘tactical withdrawal’
PS – Best understood while listening to the Bangy bits of the ‘1812’ Tchaikovsky overture!
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This is the technical terminology of the musicologist.
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see 28.1 🙂
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An enlightening article;great work!
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Electorate office
Unit 1/15 Kent Street
Rockingham, WA 6168
(08) 9527 9377
(08) 9592 1361
gary.gray.mp@aph.gov.au
Dear Minister
Was your widely-publicised reaffirmation this week of your faith in the “validity of climate science [alarmism] and integrity of climate scientists” due more to (i) changes in the political climate; than in (ii) observed changes in the actual climate?
Alice
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Personally I think that modern politics is more about ‘towing the line’ than ‘toeing the line’
The latter and widely recognised meaning has its roots in stepping up to the mark and doing the right thing!
The imagery of the former is far more accurate when applied to the activities of our elected representatives.
Dragging the barge of state upstream and against the tide, if I may mix metaphors, is precisely what they do… and as for ‘doing the right thing’ – don’t make me larf!
20
Politics is all about toeing the party line, or being whipped for those few who dare to step out of it to do the right thing.
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Have to share this one with You , it`s an old joke reworked but it fits soooo well.
“While sewing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old Aussie farmer, who’s hand was caught in the gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Julia Gillard and her role as our Prime Minister. The old farmer said, ‘Well, you know, in my opinion, Gillard is a ‘Fence Post Turtle”.. Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him, what a ‘fence post turtle’ was. The old farmer said, ‘When you’re driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that’s a ‘fence post turtle’. The old farmer saw the puzzled look on the doctor’s face so he continued to explain.’You know she didn’t get up there by herself, she doesn’t belong up there, she doesn’t know what to do while she’s up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb bugger put her up there to begin with.”
170
or..
what the **** is that thing doing up there?
what ignorant dope put it there?
would someone please take it and chuck it back in the swamp where it belongs.
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The result of a photo editor and too much time on My hands while waiting for a phonecall from work:
01
P.S. If You can`t see anything yet , it`s waiting on the mods
[Sorry Byron, I don’t see anything from you, being held in moderation.] Fly
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Shite… sorry for the thumbs down Byron. Accidently hit it whilst scrolling on my touch screen phone.
00
It`s O.K. Heywood , I deserve it for mucking up the link to the pic above , I suspect I accidentally linked to the full sized pic , not the one scaled down for blog display purposed
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Word press may be having trouble with the image or vice-versa , I`ll just do a direct link :
Fence Post Turtle
10
Clearly shows that there’s not much going on in those departments and installing Emerson as the minister for everything confirms that.
20
Motto for the new Dillard cabinet must be “Ignorance is Bliss”.
00
Do those guys actually do any work or do they just fight? I sure haven’t seen anything constructive going on. Why do we have to wait for September?
30
“The P.M. has bundled the Department of Climate Change into a nightmare acronym…”
…when it only merits a shallow grave.
21
Is creating a Super Department , coming up to an election, supposed to be suggestive of a Super Government or just a disparate or desperate one ?
31
It has been a long wait, but I am enjoying watching it unravel.
If one believes (as I do), that the AGW cult is now a social joke, then the LNP does not have to “out” itself on the whole AGW scam. It just needs to wait and go with the flow of community expectations.
The same ministers who are re-affirming their faith in AGW are the same people who stated that the “the PM has my support”.
The only question that remains is – Does the PM just collect these supports or does she wear them?
31
For the sportsmen/women among us the poms have scraped in for a draw against the Black Caps (yes NZ does have a cricket team), thats twice now in 3 tests but unfortunately the series ended in a nil all draw.
This result would be considered a victory for Australia but it wont happen as we will get flogged come June.
20
Re: the Dept of DIICCS.
My concern is that the amalgamation will provide an escape route for all those extreme green lefty zealots that were brought into the Climate Change Dept to push the lie. They will now infect industry policy development for years to come as they infiltrate vacancies outside the CC area – since they know they have no future when the Coalition takes over in September. They need to be tagged now, for culling at the appropriate time.
40
Agreed
30
You can’t say Department of DIICCS, because the word “Department” would be redundant.
You just need to use the acronym on its own.
20
Yep! A cock-up for sure.
DIICCS it is then.
00
And what do you mean the Department would be redundant?
Is always was.
00
Sorry, that was a redundant comment on my part 🙂
00
this headline is a news ticker on sky news channel at present. Wong’s “danced” quote seems way out of line, given she’s talking about people’s retirement funds:
26 March: SBS: AAP: Wong won’t rule out super raid
Finance Minister Penny Wong says she won’t play the rule-in rule-out game on whether Labor will make a super grab in the May budget.
Finance Minister Penny Wong has declined to rule out axing tax concessions for superannuation in the May budget.
“I’ve danced this dance over a few years,” she told ABC radio on Tuesday, referring to pre-budget speculation.
Sacked cabinet minister Simon Crean has warned that raising taxes on super would trash Labor’s legacy in setting up compulsory superannuation.
“You can’t be taxing people’s surpluses built up in a super fund to pay for our surplus,” he told The Financial Review.
Shadow assistant treasurer Mathias Cormann said the government should heed the advice of Mr Crean and stop the class warfare attack on hardworking people saving for retirement.
“Simon Crean is right to be highly critical of Labor’s high taxing agenda targeting superannuation,” he said in a statement, adding the government should not use people’s retirement savings like an ATM to fund wasteful and reckless spending…
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said the government shouldn’t touch superannuation in the budget.
“(It’s) less than 50 days to the coming budget and this is a government that needs to get its $300 billion worth of debt under control,” he told reporters in Sydney.
“And they’ve got to get debt under control by eliminating unnecessary government spending, not by raiding peoples’ superannuation savings, not by attacking the superannuation piggy bank.”
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1750344/Wong-wont-rule-out-super-raid
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actually the sky news ticker is “fin minister penny wong won’t rule out the govt making a super grab in the may budget”.
of course, it’s abc who have broached the topic, but wong’s response was terrible and indicative of how govt’s everywhere are behaving recklessly with people’s money.
30
Pat,
The mere fact that we are discussing the super grab is bad enough, the fact that Wong wont commit to ruling it out means they are at the very least considering it. This is nothing short of austerity or to use a more accurate term THEFT.
The Cypriots are rioting over the theft of their money so i expect long delays on my drive home from work tonight due to the many thousands of Australians that i am sure are right now livid about this development………………………………………
30
It’s more than theft – it’s ARMED ROBBERY, because it’s done at the point of a police gun
10
It’s just like I said last week; “all the cool kids are doing it, stealing citizen super is trendy.” Sure enough, now our government wants to join Thief Club.
How’s that, Aussies?
Your eyes are down and boiling a billy while the troopers are waltzing with your Matilda.
Who is more mad about this, you or your neighbour? Time to find out.
The purge and cleansing begins not when you know the government is corrupt, not even when everyone knows the government is corrupt, but when everyone knows that everyone else knows the government is corrupt.
10
Atheists do not have any standard on which to base their morality
12
Whereas Theists don’t have their own morality.
10
Obvious troll is obvious.
Am not feeding the trolls today.
Shoo.
00
Yup.
00
Age & Crikey are both carrying the absurd military CAGW money grab:
25 March: Deborah Snow: Climate to put Defence operations to the test
Photo Caption: Australian soldier on patrol in Afghanistan
Drawing on broad scientific data, the authors base their projections on expected global average temperature rises of between 2.4 and 6.4 degrees Celsius by the end of the century.
Key recommendations:
■ appoint a Defence climate adviser
■ set up interagency group to work on climate change and security
■ set up a Defence ”green team” to look at energy efficiencies
■ more personnel trained for disaster management
■ collect and share climate data
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/climate-to-put-defence-operations-to-the-test-20130324-2goch.html#
10
[…] Read it all over at Jonova, Keep reading → […]
00
In Australia you have a DIICC-head. In the UK we speak in a more refined way. We have DECC-head.
30
More climate nonsense from the UK – from my server homepage:
Climate change will bring greater extremes in weather, the Government’s outgoing chief scientific adviser has warned as he called for urgent action to tackle global warming.
Professor Sir John Beddington said the effects of climate change on the weather were already being felt in the UK.
“In a sense we have moved from the idea of global warming to the idea of climate change, and that is rather important – yes, indeed, temperatures are increasing but the thing that is going to happen is that we are going to see much more variability in our weather,” he told BBC Breakfast.
“I think you only have to look at the last few years to see how that is actually starting to manifest itself even in the UK.”
Sir John said there were “massive problems” in the world of food, water and energy security as the global population increases, all of which would be exacerbated by climate change.
Even if effective action was taken now on global warming, he said there would be “significant” climate change over the next 20 to 25 years as results of past global emissions.
“We have massive problems in the world – in 12 years’ time there will be another billion people on the planet and we have big issues of food security, water security and energy security and many, many people will start to be living in cities,” he said. “These are massive problems; climate change is just going to make it worse.”
He said there were some “uncertainties” in the analysis of climate and climate change. “But those uncertainties are completely outweighed by the enormous body of evidence that shows it is happening and is happening in the sort of ways climate models would expect,” he said. “For example the Arctic is heating up vastly faster than other parts of the world – this is exactly what the climate scientists are predicting.”
Sir John’s remarks were made as Britain experienced freezing cold weather and snow, with thousands of homes across the UK without power and many roads still impassable. Almost 8,000 homes and businesses were flooded in 2012, as the UK was battered by repeated heavy rain, storms and floods. England and Wales experienced 10 separate flooding events between April and December last year after widespread drought gave way to the wettest summer in a century, with unusually high rainfall totals and river levels around the country.
So – let’s see what Philip Eden, past vice president of the Royal Meteorological society had to say about our current weather in the UK’s ‘Sunday Telegraph’ on March 24th (page 42):
He says that ‘With a week still to go we are on course to register the coldest March, averaged over England and Wales, for 44 years. Last year we had the warmest March since 1957.’
He goes on to analyse the reasons why it’s been so cold this year – which include relentless easterly winds from northern Russia – and tellingly points out that ‘we shouldn’t run away with the idea that a very cold March followed by a very warm one (or vice versa) is abnormal. Rather, it is probably more common than we realise.’
The years when this has happened are 1996 and ’97, 1961 and ’62, 1957 and ’58, 1947 and ’48, and 1937 and ’38. He also points out that there is no relationship between March and the following summer.
Cold hard facts, so to speak!
00
About time but too little too late – far too late with six months to elections.
If the Oz PM was a guy I would call him a twit.
As the PM is a gal what would be the appropriate word?
And so it gives rise to another excuse of misogyny for her poor decisions.
20
I would call her a stupid, self centered misamdrist.
00
Early morning…. misandrist
00
This is for KFC and its ridiculous claims about ‘global warming’ … Dr Tisdale rips Trenberth a new derriere.
Trenberth Still Searching for Missing Heat
00
In search of some light relief:
Superman III, 1982 screenplay revised
00
What are Greens worried about? At best, it was only ever a “symbolic” department.
Cheers,
Speedy
20
But you gotta love the way the symbols clash … 🙂
10
People the federal government is now in its end days and they are trashing the place. Changing the rules for their union masters, increasing debt, creating log jams to handicap the next government for years, whatever it takes.
JEG and Comrades know that they will lose power and they are treating us with contempt, behaving as if they are our rulers and because we are not, seventy per cent of us, grateful, they are trashing our nation.
Disgusting or disgusting?
Young Australians make a note, do not trust these socialists ever again.
10
Trying not to preach: Younger Australians your ancestors wanted you to be safe and to be prosperous, look at the past six years and now, up to you guys, kick them out and demand that in future governments are the body corporate of the states and nation, truly answering to the people.
10
I thought your ancestors were convicts!
No, juss kiddin. One of your your younger Australians ancestors was one of my sisters. She indeed chose the Lucky Country so her eventual “descendents” would have a better life.
She chose well.
But what a shock if it turned out KFC or Crakar24 are her descendents, my nephews!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00
Look on the bright side.
Your sister’s husband’s bank manager’s plumber’s uncle’s best friend could be Kevin Bacon.
BTW, according to the NSW Dept of Tourism, at no point did convicts ever exceed more than 15% of the European population in Australia, from the “First Fleet” onwards. This is consistent with the 164k/1000k ratio at the cessation of Transportation.
Australians descended from convicts? Well, based on those numbers, not really. No more than yours are.
00
According to the Dept of Tourism.
I rest my case.
01
Well may be, but they still want to know if you have a criminal conviction when you pass through immigration.
00
Just browsing the news……
Go Julia!!!
00
Been going on for a while, Backslider.
A woman in my club joined the ALP a few years back . A traditional ‘battler’ thinking she would do her bit. What she eventually realised was that the local party heirarchy wasn’t the slightest bit interested in her ideas.
Indeed, if you didn’t hold a degree in the social sciences and/or weren’t a ‘mover’ down at Trades Hall you were mere cannon fodder to be patted on the head at election time and given a bag of ALP how-to-vote dodgers.
Finally, the penny dropped and she resigned.
10