Pander to the crocodile. Danegeld. The Australian government has offered $200 million for the UN Green Climate Fund. It’s more advertising money for the Green Blob, guaranteed to fund nice jobs that depend on the belief that man-made climate change is real, dangerous and can be solved by the UN. The cluster of dedicated climate-changing lobbyists will grow (slightly) and Australia’s foreign aid budget will shrink. In the end, it won’t make any difference to the global climate, but it will increase the number of press releases pushing the meme, and demanding more money from the public. Shame.
When Green bullies use outrage to push for money, the answer is not to pay them off, but to out-Green them and expose the hypocrisy.
Imagine if the Abbott government stood up to the so-called environmentalists and said: “We’re doing something real to help the poor and the environment — we’re funding programs direct to make sure the funds go where they are needed most. Large conglomerate centralized groups are inefficient, they tend to feed bureaucracy and junkets. We are going to be the first nation to fund an independent science program. For the sake of the environment we going to audit and check the data and results with experts from many branches of science. We are going to foster debate, leave no stone unturned, check every figure and make sure that environmental science is subjected to the absolute best peer review we can find. The world needs climate models that can predict the climate, and Australia will lead the way in auditing them.”
The real environmentalists in this debate are the ones who want BOM data and methods to be fully replicated and publicly available. The real scientists in this debate are the ones trying to understand how the climate really works by looking at the observations instead of studying opinion polls and inventing conspiracies about “fossil fuel funding”.
If the Abbott government spent a mere 10% of the Climate Fund setting up a research and analytical program to replicate BOM adjustments, or to set up independent climate models that used natural forcings to model the climate, then there would finally be a free market in science. When governments picks winners among scientific theories, as it has in climate science, it cripples scientific progress. As I’ve said for years, before we ask for a free market in carbon credits, we need a free market in science. It time we get real and stop expecting unfunded volunteers to compete unassisted with a one-sided industrial science machine. If the science is settled, and the evidence is obvious, true scientists would not be scared of real debate. They would welcome it. We do.
If Abbott spent $20 million funding skeptics there would be outrage. But the louder the outrage the more it proves that the thing that climate activists are most afraid of is for skeptical scientists to be given the same chance to make their case as unskeptical scientists. It’ s obvious what kind of scientist will win.
The Libs will now lose another 5% of people who once voted for them.
Bill Shorten.. PM in waiting..
Thanks Liberals… NOT !!!
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I’m voting for the green blob, at least it has money
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Yeah, money grows on trees now, does it.
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Money taken from hard working Australians. Thank you for confirming what we all long suspected of the so-called modern environmental movement and what its really about. Its delusional politics, flawed “green economy” ideas, nonsensical statements (“Coal or Death!”), and of course, being a parasite to the taxpayer.
But then, what does one really expect, eh? After all, environmentalists don’t produce anything useful and tangible to society.
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This donation of $200 million to the UN Green Climate Fund by the Abbott Govt guarantees them a loss in the 2016 Federal Election – extraordinary decision. On all fronts the Abbott Govt is now completely stuffed – Oz going into Recession, debt out of control & then throwing away $200 million of hard earned tax dollars to the UN Green Climate Fund.
Hey “the Griss” you mention a 5% loss of loyal support for the Libs – this is greatly understated – the backlash will be a lot more than 5%. There is no coming back from this – this will be a one term Coalition Govt. Captain Abbott & his crew will sink like the Titanic in 2 years time – a 35 Seat majority squandered by some recent ill conceived decisions. All looked fine earlier this year e.g. the removal of the insidious CT & MT legislations, but since then all has gone “pear-shaped”.
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What do you think support for the Liberals will drop to?
I’m guessing 35% or less.
Shorten certainly hasn’t gone anything to boost Labor, so Abbott and co have done a wonderful job of turning around a large majority to a massive loss all by themselves.
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What can this mob do ? So far down in the polls that they will do this to show that they’re concerned.I’ll bet some members of caucus are a bit upset, but Abbott has shown himself to be weak- and vacillating! Had a feeling .
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Unfortunately, Abbott was weak from the outset on this green blob. Although he was noted as saying: “This global warming is crap” or words to that effect, to confront the Crudd-machine, Abbott fecked about pushing an ETS of his own.
All he needs to do is hold up a few charts in his next public address showing how flawed and scurrilous climastrology is. But I doubt he’s got the knackers.
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Here’s the ransom note to which Abbott paid the $200M stolen from us:
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/storage/Synthesis_report_scr.jpg
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You do realise that if your prediction comes true, KG, that the next government would be the very same motley crew we had for six years of real, economic carnage. While you frustration is understandable, and shared by many, the alternative would be thousands of times worse.
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So so true AF. In Oz now we basically have all major parties dancing to the tune of the “Greenie Pied Piper” – a bit like the UK. So is it time for a party like UKIP to enter Aussie Federal politics?
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“So is it time for a party like UKIP to enter Aussie Federal politics?”
Most defonitely so. !
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This is the problem with the 2 party system. We need a libertarian party or a UKIP to throw the other parties out
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Are the R U A Party an alternative or a fringe ?
00
Nowadays you don’t become prime minster of a western country without belonging to the freemasonry and illuminati. Tony Abbot is one of them just following unstructions from those higher in the hierarchy. He does not give a damn if his coalition loses the next elections. He has done what his masters told him to do and that is to screw the Australians
33
Have no idea what you,re talking about. What masters ? If you refer to his ego… perhaps, but that the rest is cra…pola.
The best abbott can do now is to resign and show that he cares about Australia, not his poorly paid job. But again these people never had real jobs, particularly labor union mafia so to them no resignation is possible as no one would employ them. Country to be bankrupted by labor in 2020-22 my prediction. Level of politicians reflect voters stupidity which is boundless. We are the guilty ones as we elect them. Now I am in political wilderness, no one to vote for. Won,t pay fines ready to go to jail if I have to.
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As Einstein is reputed to have said “Two things are infinite, the Universe & human stupidity but I’m not do sure about the first.”
00
The sad thing is, by 2016 most people will not recall this, at least not very well; it will be old news. There will be other, more urgent issues in the news by then.
More importantly, the Green lobby HATES Abbott, and this will not change anything. They will take the money and keep on hating.
Why don’t politicians like Abbott understand that he already had plenty of friends? He didn’t need to buy new ones — and they’re not his friends anyway. They will never vote for him, ever, no matter how much loot he shovels into their pet cause. There will always be another politician more to their liking.
10
“… this will be a one term Coalition Govt.”
KingGeo, this is just another example of why I’ve stopped voting completely. One other reason why I stopped voting, completely, was the re-re election of a treacherous skunk called Anna Bligh(t), closely followed by the election (at all) of the stinker’s stinker, Peter Beattie (I’d so love to punctuate that duplicitous jerks clock).
Pure scum which could not sell us out quickly enough to bankers and chain us to massive interest payments, for generations, in the name of spending handouts for a better now (i.e. cataclysmic deficits and borrowing to get re-elected one more thyme).
I won’t even vote for Lib/Nats either, not because of them per sec, but more as a protest against the stupidity, gullibility and rank apathy of the Australian public in general. If the public perpetually doesn’t give a ding-dong about doing the right or roughly intelligent things, nor looks out for or sorts through the best policy plans for the future, nor disabuses and reality-checks the political BS-artistes from viable actual policy propositions, why should I spend a further second of mental/emotional energy to ‘engage’ with media-driven political ‘issues’ and spin, to decide which to vote for?
Why should I care who wins or loses given Australians are demonstrably silly enough to think Shorten is a better PM? Why should I resist such a majority? They aren’t listening to detail, they don’t care about the best trade-off for the most, they don;t care to sort wheat from chaff, they only want another dose of catastrophic stupid, on a stick to sate the pleasure cravings of now.
So I don’t and won’t vote.
It makes no difference who has the best policy, it only depends who can twist and scam the dumb the best, and at the moment that happens to be one scurrilous little ball of filth called “Bill Shorten”.
Thus I’m far more disgusted and disappointed with Australians, in general, than in the slimy wretched politicians, for at least we all expect politicians to be diabolical venal money-grubbing filth.
What I can’t accept is that the Australian electorate is so prepared to even consider electing such vapid abhorrent twisted scoundrels like Anna Bligh(t), Bill Shorten, or a twisted wreck like Tanya Gibersick, etal., to a high public office and actually pay them with their own tax extractions, via their own pay packet, to run the affairs of the whole Continent, and to set national policies … once again … and still expect good things to come of doing that!
Yes, this is a perfectly good civilization, going to waste. I’m not going to participate in that, nor signal implicit approval of it via voting, as that just encourages them to keep doing it.
Yes, I also know that not voting is no answer, however, I feel a whole lot better about not voting than and variation on a theme of the alternative.
Another public-funded documentary about civics, history and the struggle for democracy is DEFINITELY NOT going to make it all good again. I can not possible bring myself to vote for one of these people again, I would rather bite off my right arm than fill out another Federal or State ballot paper.
Don’t get the idea I might like a dose of anarchism or libertarianism instead, as I definitely don’t. I’m thoroughly over every form of political idealism. But as a basic matter matter of an intelligent existence I continue to accept the basic validity of being conservative in my personal approach to life and interaction with others.
40
Er, but why would anyone vote for Bill Shorten and his Labor party over this when everyone knows they are the party who gave us the Carbon Tax ?
This news about the UN climate fund is difficult to fathom but I can’t see how that translates into sceptical voters drifting to Bill Shorten’s rabble.
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As an impartial observer, I agree with you.
In politics, you end up having to choose the lesser of two (or more) evils. Would changing your vote away from a party that has mildly offended you, to one that could mightily offend you, make any sense?
So, Tony Abbot has promised a token amount to the Climate Change Fund? That is expedient. He has made a contribution, and avoided the Green Blob loosing face over a confrontation.
Such concessions are made all the time in commercial business negotiations – it is called haggling – and has been around since the time when camels started to tread the Silk Road.
You might object to the size of the donation. But $200 million is not that much when viewed alongside figures of hundreds of billions of dollars, being banded about in Green Blob talkfests.
You can’t build an industrial scale hydro dam for $200 million these days. Think on it.
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As you say.. TOKEN GESTURE.. so why bother. !!
Abbott is proving himself to have a very left-wing attitude.
The time is ripe for an actual conservative party, rather than 3 left-wing parties.
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Because, Griss, that is the way that The Great Game is played. He is actually showing some ability for statecraft. Which has surprised me.
If he had done, as you would wish, and slammed the door, with a firm “no thank you”, Australia would have found all sorts of other geopolitical impediments coming out of the woodwork, like new regulations in the EU, for example, or on-route customs inspections of perishable goods, etc. Get the picture?
As others have pointed out, he has really given nothing extra, he has only rearranged the deck chairs. The announcement of the donation just shifts money from one rort to another.
In international politics, being seen to demonstrably win, in any negotiation short of a war, is probably the worst thing you can do. Everybody strives for an acceptable compromise, so that there are no real winners, and no sore losers. It is one of the rules.
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Sorry, but this “seeming” to do something in an attempt to placate the AGW agenda, is a play straight from the Lab/Green handbook.
I find it quite disgusting.
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International diplomacy, is what it is, and individual party politics come down to the question, “Do you want red, blue, or green candles on that cake?”. You have no other options, but you have to have the cake.
Unless, of course, you want to live in North Korea. They aren’t allowed any cake at all.
100
Well said. And the money is going, if not to planting trees, then to protecting them from being destroyed so a biofuel plantation could be installed. All previously announced policy and aimed, and when tempers cool, at the sort of outcome many here would support.
There is no extra money flowing out of the country. If the budget has to be repaired for this 0.4% (roughly) of the deficit, then do so by removing the charity concessions for Greenpeace, WWF, Australian Conservation and other NGOs carrying out political lobbying. Audited accounts might be a start; who knows where their money comes from, or goes to?
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That $200M should have been left in the aid fund to direct as WE see fit…
.. NOT handed to the amorphous green blob to be spread among petty bureaucrats.
71
The amorphous green blob will not be getting the money. At least, they won’t be getting a cheque in the mail.
Graeme is right. Abbott, under much duress I have no doubt, has again agreed to do what Australia planned to do in the first place. But it has changed from being domestic policy, to being international policy, and that makes everybody (apart from you) so much happier.
See how it works?
70
“and that makes everybody… so much happier”
Let’s see what the polls do over.
31
No, you obviously don’t see how it works. Read what Graeme wrote at #1.3.1.1.2
“All previously announced policy …”. It has always been there. “There is no extra money flowing out of the country …”. It is no more than an accounting adjustment.
I really can’t see why you are so upset by this? It seem pretty astute to me. I tip my hat to his advisors.
30
That $200M should have been left in the aid fund to direct as WE see fit…
.. NOT handed to the amorphous green blob to be spread among petty bureaucrats.
52
Ah, but think about 2 years ahead. Shorten makes speech committing “his government” to send more money to the UN to fight Climate Change. Next day, or possibly the following, a report surfaces saying “all that money we gave the UN in 2014 has been wasted”.
00
You can see how australia is slowly sprialling down into low economic growth and and being bled dry of funds into a USSR Soviet style standard of living…..
Shorten is the next hand-picked puppet of the Socuialist globalists. Abbott as scripted, loses the next election, and we enter a new Dark Ages……
Start buying real estate and gold – this will get ugly. Anything paper-based will be eroded badly in value.
The Plan seems to be to put australia into a Japanese style rotting-on-the-vine economic situation.
It reminds me of the 1970s bad old days of heavy trade unionism and appalling economics. The banks are already talking of a credit squeeze.
Except this time – the money we should be spending on hispitals and schools is being funneled into the “humans are parasites, we love the 10:10 movies” evil UN.
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“The Plan seems to be to put Australia into a Japanese style rotting-on-the-vine economic situation.”
—
Nobody else is doing this to Australia, Australians are doing this to Australia. We are the enemy of our futures, it isn’t some amorphous group of nameless interlopers evilly plotting to make us wither on the vine. We’ve do it, and completely willingly, read: “The Roving Cavaliers of Credit”, by Steve Keen.
http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/
On your mark … get set … waaait for it! … SNOUTS IN TROUGH!!!
00
Did anyone form the gummint say “Peace in our time” after throwing 200 million into the green pit of dispair?
20
This is only a token. I know it sounds like a lot of money, but is less than $10 per Australian.
I think perhaps better to try and understand exactly what they are doing it for.
20
Actually, that middle 10-15% who are ‘swinging voters’ seem to have already deserted the Libs.
How many of the more regular Liberal voters, (and probably harder to dislodge no matter how much they are hammered) will stay with them. That is the question. !
21
I didn’t want to give my $10 to these shenanigans and nobody had the right to take it, especially a de-facto grabbermint that’s a corporation by dint of its ABN!
If anything good comes of this blatant theft and waste I’ll enhance my calm..
10
Who would they vote for? The Libs are taking conservatives for granted.
10
Considering all this money is borrowed, it just blows the budget for no good end.
Giving cash to the UN is like tearing up plastic $50 notes under a cold shower.
This money could be used here on environmental causes.
Start with the feral cat problem, these carnivores are wiping out our fauna.
Better set up an audit bureau and investigate the use of green money in the third world.
Tie any funds to verifiable projects that have a chance of success.
A good start would be tree planting programs and fish farming using biodegradable pig manure in Indonesia and East Timor.
Make sure the projects are near us, so verifiable, and run with Australian control and staffing, to eliminate corruption.
We may end up pouring money into a scam and being ripped off, as just happened in Fiji.
Take the money out of ‘overseas aid, so there is no net change of commitment.
Insist on our overseas services, particularly radio and net, give other opinions on the ‘danger’ of ‘climate change’, or whatever the new variation of the scare may be,so that we may be able to accurately educate
other societies.
Its only by this that we may stand as a rational country of practical effect.
If we don’t, those who we trade with,especially China,will treat us with contempt, as it has Obama and the UN.
191
There is outrage anyway, no matter what he does.
The Liberals need to learn that they cannot placate their ideological enemies, they can only fight them
Just hopeless, but only a fraction of the money the ALP-Greens would flush down the green toilet if they get back on the treasury benches while this fantasy is still in swing…
311
I suppose, as foreign minister, this is largely Bishop’s doing.
Looks like she has now outed herself as a member of the CAGW bandwagon.
200
Oh well, for me it’s no longer a toss up between Bishop and Morrison. We have had four PMs in a row who made it their job to please the Left; we don’t need it to be five.
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Well actually it was well documented recently when asked by reporters in Australia about the UN and the next climate change talks, Bishop rolled her eyes at the suggestion.
Somehow I doubt Bishop is beholden to either the UN or the CAGW crowd. I actually think this was an ill considered political strategy to neuter adverse political backlash in the main stream media of Australia’s other recent efforts to un hitch from the global Green gravy train. You see the MEDIA is always the problem.
130
It was a cabinet decision. The Libs are losing their base.
70
I’ll also add that the $650 Million per year pledged by the last government never was paid. Also, this $200 Million (cough cough) pledge is over four years.
The Libs are losing their base to ALA.
10
From what I see things with the media there are no better than here, therefore if he would have spent $.02 on skeptics the media would have created outrage whether there was any or not.
80
Hold that thought.
Best case Australia ever has, in politics, is a choice between bad politicians, and appalling politicians. But I guess that is also true of most democracies – you get what you pay for.
131
Good one, Jo.
My take is here:
30
I cannot think of anything more useless and wasteful than a new UN bureaucrat-heavy green fund. Can anyone think of anything useful this money could be spent on?
A couple of days ago I was amazed, for the first time, to see a balanced article on climate from the BBC.
This was to do with the current volume of ice in the Arctic Ocean – repeat ‘volume’ not area – which has increased sharply over the past few years.
This is obviously something alarmists do not want to see, as it seriously undermines one of its pet theories. Anyhow, I was going to post the link to the article here, but it has completely disappeared and there is no record of it. Instead, there is only the usual alarmist drivel, one being that catholic bishops are calling for the decarbonisation of the world economy. I presume the principal motive here is that if you can re-introduce the world to energy poverty and economic collapse, then the people will come flocking back to the church.
Can anyone help find this article as I am sure it was let through the BBC’s green censorship bureau in error?
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This is from Dec 2013, Peter.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25383373
Is this the one?
10
Agree with the Griss. I wonder how Abbott would play if that was his own money. 200mm is 200mm. I am disappointed with his appeasement. This is not politics, this is weakness with no backbone. He will be hated by the left regardless of how many billions he would spend on this using his words “crap”.
10
HERE?
http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/julie-bishops-extravagant-solution-to.html
40
Bishop needs to be taken aside and told the truth, CO2 doesn’t cause warming, not that it would make any difference to her mindset. She won’t attract Green/Labor votes, but has lifted her personal stocks with the UN fraudsters.
http://australianclimatemadness.com/2014/12/10/insanity-australia-to-give-200-million-to-un-climate-fund/
41
Funds for research of ordinary, local, normal climate. Nah, can’t do that. Something useful might be discovered.
101
“If the Abbott government spent a mere 10% of the Climate Fund setting up a research and analytical program …. to set up independent climate models that used natural forcings to model the climate”
they would be wasting our money. For we should all know by now that natural causes do influence the climate, but they cannot correlate with nor have caused the current warming. QED
146
Fact: no warming for 18 years and 2 months according to the satellite record.
Though you might say it till you are hoarse, your theory has gone up in flames.
223
The horse is hoarse.
10
Hiatus myarsus strikes again!
010
SF, A good dose of CO2 will clear that mental constipation of yours.
91
Apparently the corralled mare doesn’t like pesky things called facts.
Might like to remove those blinders (A common piece of horse tack that prevents a horse looking around too much).
90
Mine fell from my eyes years ago!
50
Something for SF to digest..
21
whoops, wrong link… this is more pertinent
41
You go girl! It looked stupid the first time you did it, clever as you thought you were, and it still looks stupid. Apparently making yourself look like a horses rear is your forte. Now run along so the adults can talk without your childish interruptions.
21
A 10 year old nag !
No wonder she comes here for attention. !
31
I suppose the upshot of this is that there are dependency and entitlement issues not only in the Australian electorate, but also internationally.
Judging from some of the comments we are hearing from Bishop about wanting a binding legally enforceable treaty, the Liberals attitude to this might be that if countries want ‘free overseas money’ they are going to have to ‘pay’ for it with a binding and legally enforceable emissions treaty: doubting that there will be too many takers (Bishop said something like developing and first world countries should be treated equally in terms of emissions targets), this might just put the squeeze on ‘big green’.
20
So, where’s your empirical evidence that shows that nat causes are not the major influence and instead the eeevil see-oh-toos are going to bake us alive?
Oh yes, I forgot. You have no empirical evidence, just rubbish models like this one:
171
I meant this one (let’s see if it works):
20
Oh well. Try this link instead:
http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/guest/evans-david/hansen-1988-a-b-c-scenarios-600.gif
30
Hansen’s scenarios proves categorically that CO2 has zero effect on temperatures.
The temperatures are well and truly below his scenario C (Co2 emissions cut severely)..
..while the actual CO2 trend is scenario A or above.
11
“QED,” sayeth Silly Filly — the thing is proved. But where is the evidence that counts? Where, Ms. Filly, is the evidence that CO2 is doing anything? Where is there the slightest evidence that CO2 in the atmosphere can even do as you claim?
That the world and computer models don’t agree only proves that the world pays no attention to computer models.
I hate to always go back to The Skeptics Handbook but you should go read it a few times. It’s available on this site for download or you can read it in your browser. In it Jo makes the argument that no one has been able to successfully refute. There is no evidence that CO2 is involved in what climate change has been happening. None! Zip! Nothing!
Though it’s been there all along I suspect you haven’t and probably won’t read it.
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I suggest you read some real science papers rather than simplistic, deluded and unscientific opinion!
213
Typical left-wing parrot..
“do as I say , not as I do.”
No wonder you only ever produce simplistic, deluded and unscientific opinion and baseless propaganda.
Zero evidence that CO2 causes warming in an open atmosphere.
63
OK! But I note with considerable interest that you have not once pointed us to a paper based on “real” science and I wonder why that is.
10
From what you post here it’s pretty clear that you count opinion as more valuable in determining what the facts are than you do actual evidence. Did you even read The Skeptic’s Handbook? Do you understand that skeptics’ whole case rests not on proving your position is wrong but on showing that your claims don’t hold up because you have no evidence of the key cause and effect requirement, that CO2 has done the warming?
We admit that climate can and does change and that it has changed in the recent past. But we see no evidence that CO2 was responsible for that change.
10
Actually sillyfilly makes a good point. Probably by accident, but …
It would be extremely useful to have a set of models that were predicated on analysing only the natural forces affecting climate, in order to establish a base-line for comparison with the current models, that all assume anthropogenic influences as the root cause.
Whether or not such models could be developed for $200m is another question.
70
RW, If you get rid of CO2 forcing and use pre-adjusted HadCrut data, the current 18 year stationarity of the temperature would be shown up in the models.
Hansen proved this with his 3 scenario projection.
The only projection that came anywhere near reality was the one where CO2 was most removed from the equations.
132
umm… RW the method you describe is exactly what was done from day one with attribution to AGW causing the difference between observed and expected sans CO2
04
As you say Gee Aye, the attribution of CO2 warming is what is causing the models to diverge so massively from REALITY. !
71
yeah so I am not sure what RW meant. Anyway Dr Evans is coming up with a model that fits observation without requiring input from anthropogenic CO2.
11
Steady on GeeAye, you’ll upset them with reality. They don’t like it up them!
06
Reality doesn’t upset realists.
Its you that has the issue with reality ….
…… otherwise you wouldn’t be here using non-facts to try to argue against it..
52
Let’s talk about reality, Fin.
I have yet to see any paper that proves CO2 causes warming in an open atmosphere.
No matter how many trolls one asks. They cannot provide !
So Fin, produce your reality. 🙂
61
No, but you will see experiments where someone warms a pop bottle of “air” then does the same with a pop bottle of CO2 claiming they’ve proved something.
Hardly the same thing as analyzing two exact gaseous mixes with the proper ratios of atmospheric gasses one with CO2 in the correct ppm ratio and one with no CO2 at all.
Regular “air” like we use in our zero air bottles for emissions testing contains some CO2 just as the atmosphere does. So where does one get some “air” they can experiment with that has absolutely no CO2 in it but otherwise exactly represents the atmosphere? Not an easy thing to come by I suspect.
The faulty “high school lab” type of experiments I’ve seen so far not only don’t prove anything, they are so poorly designed that I can’t understand why anyone would want to show them to anyone.
80
The reality is temperatures have not increased in 18 years. And no model predicted that.
10
Hmmm,
That was more fun than throwing a dummy grenade into an army mess tent.
30
SF you are right
CO2 does not correlate with nor has caused the current non-warming. QED
142
OH, So you agree with the Ruddiman hypothesis. The only thing keeping the earth out of a fast descent into the next glaciation is Mankind.
Give that we are at the bitter end of the Holocene and the last interglacial had two thermal pulses equivalent to the Medieval and Modern warm periods, I could never under stand way the Warmists want to get rid of the only possible method so far offer for keeping the earth out of the ice box.
110
But going into the icebox is like, natural ‘n stuff man!
i.e., the Outback goes into a 100K year long super drought, riven with endless sand storms that destroy what’s left of the feeble soil profiles that developed in the warmer phases.
The leader of the free-morons can’t send his daughters to the Great Barrier Reef because it’s now situated 100 m above high tide mark, as the Great Barrier limestone Mesa in a broad sand blown frigid coastal disaster zone, interspersed with stinking sulfur-laden black mud bogs, that inter-reef fish species once considered home.
While the Australian wildlife is chronically stressed back to a population level that is (seriously and for real this time) actually in danger of going extinct.
The icebox is like natural, so it must be good for the environment man! Well where’s the fricken ‘pristine’ wilderness at that point? Not in Australia, that’s for sure, as it looks more like Mars than Earth, during icebox. What is for sure is there will not be any where near as many as 24 million Australians remaining at that point.
Hang on a minute, … maybe that’s why they want a natural icebox back? As then natural humans will naturally not do too well … and then some … but not that greens are really into foisting a global genocide on humanity, it’s more that it just happens to be a fortuitous upside of not burning coal ‘n stuff.
00
‘…but they cannot correlate with nor have caused the current warming. QED’
As has been pointed out by my colleagues, CO2 has gone bananas and temperatures have failed to lift beyond the high of late last century. Still, you might like to argue that natural variables have dampened the AGW effect and shortly its all going to turn around in your favor.
This seems unlikely as our star remains the main driver of our earthly climate and it appears to be on the blink.
Over the next couple of decades India and China will be going out of their way to mass produce carbon dioxide, which is damn good of them, as the earth enters a mini ice age.
40
Sillyfilly,
Once you can explain this graph which shows temperatures over the Holocene falling as CO2 rises;
Once Climastrologists can explain the NATURAL Dansgaard-Oeschger oscillations/Heinrich events where the temperature swings are up to 16C;
Then you might have a point.
100
To which I’ll add this, clear evidence that CO2 doesn’t cause warming or cooling.
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V17/nov/a27.php
20
CO2 does not do much to the atmospheric temperature at all.
The only thing it might effect is local climate, due to in an increase in foliage density.
I have yet to see any paper that proves CO2 causes warming in an open atmosphere.
No matter how many trolls one asks. They cannot provide !
61
western MSM is still spinning how India is committed to renewables blah blah, but Vishwa Mohan tends to report the reality, which is that the less developed countries continue to insist on the right to develop and alleviate poverty:
10 Dec: Times of India: Lima climate talks: India tells rich nations not to use disasters as tools to make profit
by Vishwa Mohan
Addressing the gathering of ministers and key representatives of many countries, the Indian environment minister also sought not to clear only his country’s priority and development paradigm but also of most of the developing countries which need to grow economically to deal with the problem of abject poverty.
He said, “While there is often a talk about changed reality, one in every seven persons in the world today still lives in abject poverty. The number of poor people in the world is more than twice the combined population of Europe. All of them are in developing countries.
“We are determined to ensure development to all these people and provide them with basic services of energy, water, sanitation, healthcare, education and employment.
“We in India are committed to protecting the interests of the poor. We did in it the WTO for ensuring food security of our people”…
Enlisting those conditions as his country’s position during the negotiations, the minister said, “It should be able to address the genuine requirements of the developing countries by providing them equitable carbon space to achieve sustainable development and eradicate poverty…
He emphasized that the “beautiful balance of collective action – the principles of equity and common but differentiated responsibilities (CBDRs) – should form the basis of continued action…
The remarks come at a time when the rich nations are trying to dilute the provisions of the CBDRs which are ingrained the principles of the UNFCCC and its Kyoto Protocol…
“Our ambition in the post-2020 period is directly linked with ambitious actions in the pre-2020 period by the developed countries, otherwise the poor people in developing countries will not get the carbon space to achieve sustainable development.
***”If we believe that the global warming threat is real, then we must deliver on the agreed commitments as a matter of priority. It is important therefore for developed country parties to urgently fulfill their legal obligations in the pre-2020 period. They must scale up their mitigation ambition now and urgently fulfill their promises for providing financial and technological support to developing countries”…
Referring to other contentious issue of adding the “progress review” of emission cut and adaptation targets clause in the future deal which is being forcefully demanded by the EU countries, Javadekar said, “We firmly believe that the INDCs are to be ‘nationally determined’. We do not see any role for any ex-ante review in this process. The INDCs should include all elements including mitigation, adaptation, finance, technology and capacity building”…
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/environment/global-warming/Lima-climate-talks-India-tells-rich-nations-not-to-use-disasters-as-tools-to-make-profit/articleshow/45444797.cms
9 Dec: Economic Times India: Lima COP20: Deep divides on key issues
by Vishwa Mohan
The developing countries including India and China are on the same page on both the key issues of adaptation and review. They have sought inclusion of adaptation in the final deal and strongly opposed to review of their actions arguing that these will be the “nationally determined” contributions where there should not be any role of second party from outside.
Indian environment minister Prakash Javadekar and Xie Zhenhua, vice chairman, NDRC, China met on Monday and pledged to take common stand on these issues during the remaining four days of negotiation process…
Though both India and China had last week demanded that all references to any formal review of emission targets should be deleted, the new draft text for a UN decision in Lima retained the idea of a formal review, requiring for countries to answer within four weeks questions about their climate pledges. Certainly, both these countries, backed by almost all developing countries, will oppose it vehemently…
The BASIC nations (Brazil, South Africa, India and China) too held a meeting separately where ministers resolved to move unitedly on key issues of
adaptation, technology transfer and climate finance to achieve an ambitious and positive outcome of the talks in Lima, while preserving and strengthening the unity of developing countries to protect their common interests.
The EU pointed out that the informal deadline of emission cuts or other pledges made no sense unless it allowed nations to review each others’ plans for averting extreme weather events like heat-waves, floods and rising sea levels due to climate change.
The US has, however, taken a different stand, saying the key issue was to encourage ambition of each and every country. It doesn’t emphasise on review.
“The United States is perfectly happy to have a consultative proprocess,” said Todd Stern, special climate envoy and head of the US delegation.
He said, “We had a concern from the beginning that we didn’t want to scare countries off … The most important part of this idea is ***sunshine. You encourage countries to be ambitious because they don’t want to look bad”…
However on the matter of CBDRs, both EU and non-EU rich nations have a common stand. All these nations want to dilute the provision of differentiation under the Kyoto Protocol which deals with developed and developing countries separately in terms of sharing responsibilities for emission cuts and others measures like extending support for adaptation and capacity building.
Developing countries are, however, united on their demand for including ‘global goal for adaptation’ in the final climate deal. They are also in favour of including the provision of ‘loss and damage’ (support for those nations who have already faced losses due to pollution of environment by the rich nation due to their historical carbon emissions).
Though the EU has a bit liberal approach towards ‘loss and damage’, the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand among other rich nations do not want this provision to be dealt with under the global climate deal which is to be applicable for the countries beyond 2020.
Nevertheless, all these elements are there in the draft texts which the ministers and negotiators would discuss for four days before finally agreeing for template of the global deal…
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/environment/the-good-earth/lima-cop20-deep-divides-on-key-issues/articleshow/45436856.cms
i say hold firm & kill the CAGW scam, because the promised $100bn annual fund & free transfer of technology was an empty promise.
best to cut your losses from the decades of attending these talkfests with all the related costs, and get down to dealing with pressing domestic issues. carbon dioxide is not an enemy to be defeated.
60
Pat, India has also tossed out foreign funded Greenpeace
If we get another really bad winter I think CAGW will be pretty much dead and so far it looks like GAIA is stomping all over the CAGW lies.
…..
China – Continuous snowstorms starting Nov. 30 across China’s northeast have caused the collapse of thousands of square meters of greenhouses in Heilongjiang Province. A blizzard lasting more than 60 hours hit on Thursday the 4th. The snow has exceeded one meter (39 inches) in Cheilongkziangk province in northeast China, as the area was hit by the most severe snowstorm in years. Temperatures reached as low as minus 20 Celsius (-4 F).
Russia – Very heavy snowfall and blizzards in South Ural region on November 10 and 11 followed by Minus 32 degrees in Tomsk and heavy snowfall Nov 23
Japan – Heavy Snowfall Dec. 4 The city of Nayoro was buried in 70 cm (27 inches) of snow, while 46 cm (18 inches) fell in Horokanai and 40 cm (16 inches) in Otaru. Japan has really gotten plastered, even getting major snow in mild semi-tropical Tokushima (lat. 34.0° N) 8 people were confirmed dead as of two days ago and they still have not finished digging out with more snow forecast.
Iran – Snow and ice storm traps 2,000 people around November 5 followed by snow in 16 provinces by the end of the month.
EUROPE
Serbia – Ice storm and deep snow – 48 hours without electricity, water and heating
A different resident, Milan, says that the transmission lines that have fallen were wrapped in ice 4-centimeters thick. Workers cut branches that have fallen around power lines, and it goes very slowly. More bizarre is that no one has physically visited the power plant, but they are controlled by a computer in Belgrade…. People began mentally to shoot, really are very bad. They are very angry, enraged, angry … Everybody is extremely difficult, residents are outraged, helpless!
Romania – More than 1,000 people stuck in snow Dec 2 and 100,000 Czech travelers are stranded due to freezing arctic weather. In Budapest, Hungary entire trees toppled under ice up to 4 inches (10 cm) thick, threatening entire forests and leaving 40,000 homes powerless. (Not a peep about this in the US MSM though)
Austria ice storm – So bad that authorities use tanks to move supplies
Entire towns cut off by thousands of fallen trees and ice-covered roads – More than 60 major roads are closed. by the 4th 0f Dec 2014 – Conditions worsened in the on-going ice storm in Lower Austria and Burgenland on Thursday. Large areas of the eastern part of Austria have been brought to a standstill, with fire services calling in the military….
Given the cuts in energy and the major increase in prices in the EU, this is not going to go over well with citizens.
PHOTOS of the Europe’s wide spread Deep Freeze
The USA has been getting hit with nasty winter weather. Here are a few more recent highlights.
As of the beginning of December Chicago had the Coldest Year in 110 Years and Michigan ski area opens with record snow. Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan shatters 125-year-old November snowfall record.
The west coast of the USA has not been spared either.
Eight-and-half inches of snow fell at Juneau International Airport on Sunday Nov. 30, breaking the previous record of 6.3 inches set back in 1946. A record low temperature of 24 degrees was set at Seattle Washington WFO sunday Nov 30. This obliterated the old record of 32 set in 1991. A record low temperature of 19 degrees was set at Quillayute WA Airport today. This breaks the old record of 23 set in 1976. A record low temperature of 18 degrees was set at Bellingham WA Airport today. This ties the old record of 18 set in 1952.
Nor has that Bastille of Political Correctness Quebec been spared.
Winter storm warning in effect Tuesday 09 December 2014… A major low pressure system is tracking up the east American seaboard today. A total of 20 to 30 centimetres (7.9″ to 11.8″) of snow with gusts between 70 and 80 km/h (43.5 to 49.7 mph) are expected. The combination of heavy snow and winds will significantly reduce visibilities during several hours. Snow could become mixed with ice pellets…
If Piers Corbyn is correct, the UK is going to get slammed too.
“The massive storm now heading for Britain and Ireland 9/10th bringing blizzard conditions for most parts and damaging gales or storms in all parts is essentially our top active period 5-8th extended a day or two. This will then develop to set up the more Northerly VERY SEVERE SNOW AND BLIZZARD BLAST WITH EXTREME COLD AND GALES from Friday 12th to Tue 16th . This was always forecast by WeatherAction (from 100 days ahead with detail 27 days ahead). “This will probably be the most extreme 5 days of snow blizzards and gales in Britain and Ireland for 100 years…
H/T http://iceagenow.info/
70
The clincher will be when people start skating on the Thames. Thats when the penny will drop and critical mass will be reached. As a friend of mine used to love saying, thats when delta x goes to zero (whatever that means, it sounds apocalyptic).
00
Hmmm.
I wouldn’t mind a few million to firm up the detail of my New Climate Model which is tracking real world events rather well at present 🙂
http://www.newclimatemodel.com/new-climate-model/
70
“which is tracking real world events rather well at present”
Gees Stephen, I didn’t know you could model political agendas 😉
31
LOL
I meant real world CLIMATE events 🙂
I see my post has appeared twice due a typo in my email address.
50
This donation really upset me. Its a complete waste of money. And its done nothing to win over the progressive left (who hate the abbott government by definition). Given that this is borrowed money and its about to be squanderd on a greedy monster to solve a problem that doesn’t exist – I’m really upset. It might have done some real good if spent elsewhere. It’s cost this government trust and respect from its conservative friends – even though its not won the government the slightest support from the left. In light of that I’m struggling to understand how they could have been so stupid.
130
I was under the mistaken impression that Julie Bishop was too smart to be taken in by the UN AGW scam. She has done herself and her government harm amongst those who would never vote for the Green agenda which of course centres on the destruction of the “capitalists” industrial system.
Interestingly she is throwing a spanner into the UN workings by demanding China and India reduce their GHG emissions through binding targets (something the hypocritical true believing members of the UN climate change scam deplore because they can’t keep them). Granted she is a lawyer but how can she reconcile that stance with the promised long term continuance(by TA) of our coal and metals resource industries.
Only a lawyer could fall for that one. Thus one can see why Greg Hunt, the Environment Minister, was not given the task of capitulation.
70
Tony Abbott will be happy:
Sun shines on solar market
“Solar market analysis group Sunwiz say that 3.9GW of solar has been installed across Australia to the end November 2014
The Bloomberg New Energy Finance publication said in a note published in June that the total market will be 20GW of installed capacity by 2030.
It will be across more than 5 million sites, and with commercial/industrial systems comprising one-third of the total market.
Bloomberg estimates this will be an $42 billion of investment between 2014 and 2030.”
http://www.afr.com/p/business/chanticleer/sun_shines_on_solar_market_eDE9FBkWYuA6l2QxcFifLP
. . .
Jonova resident electrical engineer & contributor, TonyfromOz, will be having kittens about … now.
Listening to ABC radio in car earlier, an interview with Greg Hunt, (I am trying to find it), Hunt says, “We showed those who doubted us.”
Those ‘doubters’, also known as ‘skeptics’, or as Hunt’s pet scientists like to call them, “deniers,” are the ones who voted for you.
Good move, idiot.
130
Reshuffle Hunt to education and replace him with Jensen.
30
Still looking.
FWIW, Found this:
The Federal Government wants the household solar panels and hot water scheme to continue and says it will start negotiating the future of the Renewable Energy Target (RET) with the Opposition.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-22/government-wants-rooftop-solar-program-to-continue/5833664
. . .
mea culpa.
It might be that I will have to eat some angry words, but, is it possible the Abbott govt. have out played the UN with this move?
I have thought about GI’s comment about “softly, softly, catch monkey”.
$200M is an expensive banana.
Is the Abbott govt. that smart?
Performance so far does not give me confidence.
30
Giving the green blob a few million is like throwing a hamburger at a hungry lion….it only delays moment it comes for you.
70
I know it’s off topic, but every time I read something new about rooftop solar power, all I can do is smile.
Journalists know journalism, and just couldn’t bother to find out the engineering aspects of rooftop solar, so they believe what they are told, not knowing any better.
You can have as many of these rooftop systems as you like, spread across the whole of the Country, mind you, so little amounts in all areas in reality.
They can say that we now have 3GW in total for Capacity, and that they generate, well, whatever, and some articles even quote more than 2% of total generation, and trust me, it’s nowhere even close to that, maybe 1.3 to 1.5%, and again keep in mind that this is across the whole of Australia, so again, small amounts on each grid.
However, they will NEVER replace large scale coal fired power, and NO large scale coal fired plants will close because of rooftop solar.
The grid has to have enough power to supply the WHOLE consumption for the grid.
Take that away, and the grid will go down, and then you can have all the rooftop solar panels you want, but without that reference, without that large scale power to cover every other consumer, then there will be ….. NO POWER at all.
Every one of those rooftop solar installations will then go down as well. NO POWER to any home at all, and people will be left wondering why their home has been cut off, looking at their useless panels not delivering one watt of power, not only to the grid, but to all their homes as well.
Even replace the real grid supply with wind power and as soon as the wind drops, then again, all those rooftop installations fail as well.
I don’t care how much rooftop solar there is. It will never replace coal fired power.
Incidentally, now that they say there is 3GW in total of Nameplate for rooftop solar, the actual amount of power returned TO THE GRID from all those installations across the whole recording year by all those installations spread across the whole of Australia is supplied by Bayswater in around 18 to 20 days, and most probably less than that, and those rooftop installations are a little bit here, a little bit there, a tiny amount for each grid.
Tony.
90
It just got a bit cooler here and started raining (7270). I though it was just the tail end of the systems over eastern Australia right now but I guess it must have been the cash.
80
[SNIP duplicate, email fixed above – J]
50
Abbott disappoints me. As Aesop once said:
“He that always gives way to others will end in having no principles of his own. ”
160
Appeasement of bullies doesn’t work. Full stop.
The inevitable result is they become more aggressive and dangerous. Just have a look at the historic Neville Chamberlain/Adolph Hitler Munich Agreement appeasement. Epic Fail. If Hitler had been defied and challenged instead of placated, he very probably would have been stopped in his tracks and contained within Germany’s borders.
70
DIS-AP-POINT-ING!
30
Imagine if just one major government stood up and said anything like what Jo proposed. It might be the straw that broke the climate change camel’s back. I can easily imaging the dominoes all lined up and ready to start tumbling over if given the initial push. And the push we need is to stop feeding the hungry monster named climate change.
Unfortunately it doesn’t seem likely to happen that way. The thing has a life of its own and will have to play out until it finally dies of boredom and neglect like so many other bad ideas. So it may be around forever. Nothing dies harder than a bad idea.
60
I suspect the reason Abbortt speaks with a chronically forked tongue is that even he realises that the punters will not swallow his real beliefs on these issues and he has little choice. Even the nut-bag Republicans are slowly starting to sidle towards the exits on the excessive crazy they’ve indulged in.
The smart money is now on a developing el nino and when that happens the smelly stuff will hit the fan. You guys who all put your money on global cooling are gonna have to trot down to the nearest ATM.
117
So, here we have ‘FIN’ praying for a global catastrophe so the sceptics will de ‘defeated’.
Unfortunately,
1. there was an el nino in (e.g. 2009-2010). The 18 years 2 month old pause includes it.
2. Even if temperatures do rise the pause was not predicted by alarmists (theory failure).
3. The warming is still missing (now over 50 excuses in the ‘Where’s Wally’ game of finding the ‘missing’ heat).
90
Yep, leftists, those wonderfully tolerant and progressive people whose only arguments end up being things like:
However since the statement comes from Fin, who has established beyond doubt that he has no idea what he is talking about ever, no one cares.
80
It’s a somewhat different “warming” but I’ve often wondered if the real warming could be the result of all the hot air spent bloviating about climate change.
00
I’m not going to make any claims about El Niño but we are now forecast for moderate to heavy rain today with from one half to one inch per hour being possible. An inch per hour is a whole lot of water and not to be taken lightly.
00
here is something for you to read, Fin.
Enjoy 🙂
41
Bravo!
20
Oh, let me make that clear. Bravo is for “Imagine if the Abbott government stood up to the so-called environmentalists and said: “We’re doing something real to help the poor and the environment — we’re funding programs direct to make sure the funds go where they are needed most…”, not for the 200 million.
40
It is about time we read the small print. This $200million is not new money, but redirection from the annual overseas assistance Australia donates every year, so no additional cost. The fund itself seems more about protecting rainforest areas which are being cleared at an incredible rate in Brazil and our neighbour Indonesia, unique, fragile rainforest which has a real function climatically and socially and essential for biodiversity. Nothing directly to do with global warming.
There is also the essential political aspect that Australia is really challenging the Green machine but does not want to become an international pariah and an easy target for the domestic Green political machine which determines so many of the seats in the Australian election, controlling nearly 14% of the vote. You cannot stop the Green devastation from Opposition. Only 8 Labor seats were in an absolute majority at the last election and the rest dependent on Green votes, so we need to be realistic. It is the core democratic voting, that communists and anarchists have stolen Greenpeace.
It is a bit like the boat people funding, which was taken from our long standing 13,500 people per year refugee program, so rich migrants who could afford $10K cash each just took places from real and naturally destitute asylum seekers and qualified refugees. $10K is a fortune in these countries, so extremely worrying. It is likely these people did not come to work and simply bought their passage. If anything, the Australian government does not advertise just how generous we are already with international assistance and refugee migration, which leaves it open to Green activists to claim they are doing something new and worthwhile instead of robbing existing schemes to make people smugglers rich while drowning hundreds of families, four jumbo loads of bodies in the Timor sea in just six years. Now the UN and the HRC want to investigate, when it is all stopped.
So it is about how you tell the story. In fact it looks like this government is being very sensible and frugal and this fund is not at all about absurd global warming and CO2, even if that is the popular slant by the same Green blob and their friends in the increasingly left media.
121
My understanding is also that the money will be spent and administered by Australia, not the UN. It is just a bot of sleight-of-hand by Bishop to declare it is going to the great UN green money pit.
The disappointments of Abbott’s performance aside – frustratingly, his apparent policy of continual back down and appeasement – this ‘donation’ seems to involve a fair degree of smoke and mirrors.
111
Are you accusing Joanne Nova of misleading?
010
Perhaps, but what did TA mean by “things have changed”? If he would just explain things more fully, perhaps we would be more supportive. I think there is more to the 200 mil than is obvious, but I wish TA would get on the air and tell us what it is.
00
Sorry, core democratic voting conundrum or problem.
10
We should all remember – governments have NO MONEY. That $200m is the taxpayers. Yet that never enters into the frauds that occur with governments.
30
I liked this article in ‘The Courier Mail’ 10/12/14.
10 Dec 2014 The Courier-Mail
Bishop stares down greenies Minister.
110
Here is something I have kept of what USA Secretary of State said earlier this year. Read carefully and note just he understands the so called way CO2 is heating the planet. But I suppose a lot of people poor in science knowledge would think this way. Trouble is, Kerry is a most powerful individual in the world community. It is frightening.
GROAN!
90
We seem to have a lot of powerful people in the world community who, when listening to them speak, bring to mind the phrase “bright as a burnt out bulb.”
80
We prefer to say Dim as a lightbulb, (the way Energy saving ones typically go and usually long before their stated lifetime) in England, where we have the Lib Dims in charge of the Energy policy.
10
Must be that peculiar “lighter than air” version of CO2 that was able to rise so high. The garden variety of CO2 we get around here sinks.
60
Bang on.
Abbott is digging himself in deeper by betraying his voter base, those who got him into the leadership role and then into the lodge. Time for a UKIP.
40
I think you need to step back a bit and consider this from a political perspective. The “peer pressure” is apparent on the global stage. So what is offered? $50m/pa * 4y. Not a lot but you miss that it comes from the current foreign aid budget – just like here in the UK. This means that there will be losers, who will have to indent to Ban Ki-Moon for their stipend instead of directly with Canberra. How will they react to this? How will this influence their positions at Paris 2015? Observe how Japan has been using such funds to sell (Japanese) coal fired generation to Indonesia. Being focussed on the “science” you have neglected the political and global economic dimension of this midden of “climate change”.
What player in this game (apart from the deluded green blob) REALLY wants the UN to be in control of their destinies? They have no chance of getting more than the meanest token of their
($ trillions) aspirations. Most that I know of Aussie politics I have learned here – but I observe it is no different from practice elsewhere, a corrupt mess of veniality, deception, stupidity and delusion.
Don’t get deflected by (relative) trivialities but keep your eye on the core issues.
61
Good points. In fact Australia’s 1.4% contribution to this $12Bn infrastructure and development fund for ‘poor’ countries is sensible, already allocated and apparently Australian administered and in reasonable proportion to population, not some wacky Green formula of per capita CO2 emissions. Our $A200million ($US160million) from our existing international aid program means no extra money and is reasonable say compared to France’s $US1Bn, UK’s $US1.2Bn, US’s $3Bn but even then the Green spokes people say we are not paying our fair share, which tells you they are fuming.
Of course the UN dresses it up as a Climate Change fund but they would do that with anything. The Chinese are not donating as they are a struggling ‘developing’ country. The total $US12Bn is in fact dramatically less than the original 2009 idea for ‘rich’ countries to hand over $100Bn a year and you can be sure this all comes with a lot of strings attached. When you consider the $300Bn a year being wasted on windmills and the like, it is likely much more good will come from this money.
21
Actually caught by my own logic. If you discount the entire CO2 output of developing countries, we are actually paying exactly our proportion of per capita emissions at 1.4% of the fund. That really leaves the Green blob with nothing to say, but they said it anyway. Not paying our fair share. Without China and India and Africa and South America, half the world not contributing anything, we are overpaying.
30
What is interesting is that US’s $3 Billion pledge still has to get by the Republican controlled Congress who now hold the purse strings.
Given the screaming in the USA right now as our national debt passes the $18 TRILLION mark, that is not going to be easy. Unlike last year, Obama does not have the Democratic (Progressive) Senate around to refuse to pass the budget for him so that the media can scream it is all the Republicans fault. This time around the budget will pass both houses and all Obama can do if he doesn’t like it is VETO the bill. He does that and the government shutdown will be entirely on his head.
At the start of Obama’s, Admin. The National Debt was was 10.5 trillion. So far Obama has piled up more debt than all the presidents from George Washington to Bill Clinton combined. Most taxpayers have had enough and slashing funds going to the UN or foreign countries is a lot easier than slashing say Healthcare, Welfare or Pensions. Also Obama, as one of his primary duties as President, is SUPPOSED to present a budget to the House.
President Obama missed the Monday deadline for submitting a budget to Congress, marking the fourth time in five years he has been late.
The big budget items are:
Health care -27%
Pensions – 23%
Defense – 21%
Interest – 12%
Welfare – 9%
Education – 3%
20
They will probably pull it straight off the foreign aid budget, just as we did. What the UN call it is pure UN politics and marketing. This is an infrastructure fund for poor countries and tiny by American Government standards and even US private standards.
Also if you scaled it to the Australian government income it would be $200Million, about what we are giving. The people of the US have always given very generously, more than most countries in individual terms and far more collectively. Congress will not make a stand on this, but on health and social services which are out of control as Democrats spend trillions they do not have, just like Socialist around the world. As Margaret Thatcher said, “the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money”. This is different however to the international Greens who want to wreck the joint.
50
TdeF,
I have no problem with giving but I do have a major problem with government waste and corruption and fraud. How come no one ever asks if the recipients actually want the aid? Not the leaders who grab a major share but the guy in the dirt path. Why not ask them what help they NEED?
This is an old letter (2008) from someone in Africa about his view of “US AID”
20
Misguided aid, opportunistic aid, dumping of unsaleable produce and misdirected farming and and endless series of agricultural disasters in a rapidly growing world, freed from the curse of massive infant and maternal mortality. All possibly with the best intentions from the donor countries. The alternative is to do nothing and what sort of alternative is that? Cash corrupts too. Food and eve trucks sent to Eritrea was sold by the regime to buy guns to kill people. To not try to help though?
I am reminded of the US push to trans-fats, to force all food chains to use healthy trans-fats and reduce cholesterol caused heart disease. A decade later it was discovered transfats were very carcinogenic and those who refused to change, included McDonalds were heroes. The science was not ‘in’.
With the best intentions, the health industry killed a lot of people. Hindsight is a great teacher, but to not try to improve, to not give and not try to help is not an option either. Mistakes will be made and letters like this and modern views like this that phosphate fertilizers can have disastrous side effects are becoming clear, but who knew that at the time? Who thought that far ahead? I can remember the 1960s when the 400 million in India were starving and now there are 1300 million and starvation is rare. Have we advanced? These are moral and ethical questions as well as the science which allows a population of 1200million.
So the incredible waste of $1Bn a day on windmills is a world scandal of incredible size. The missed opportunity is educate the poor of the world, give them power, sanitation, fresh water, housing, the power to help themselves. Then family sizes will drop and the place will be sustainable. The Greens only ever care about their world, not anyone else. The Prophets of Doom care only about themselves, their lives and their income and their sustainability.
As the late Douglas Adams wrote, the answer to the meaning of life is 42. In the meantime this waste of human resources defeating Global Warming is the greatest quasi science scandal in history. It must be defeated.
10
I know how Australia can shuffle funds so the Greenblob gets their money.
Disband ABC. It has betrayed the public trust.
Disband the BOM. It has betrayed the public trust.
Disband CSIRO. It has betrayed the public trust.
60
Interestingly, the CSIRO have not complained. They had two cuts under Labor and they are awaiting a new CEO with Silicon Valley entrepreneurial expertise. Who knows? With their $1Billion pa budget, they might succeed at something against fifty years of rain making and a robotic sheep shearing machine. Please don’t say they invented WiFi. They did not.
40
Robot sheep shearing? UWA got a bit of funding for that from ca. 1980. Robotics was well advanced at the time but the sheep didn’t comply with the software models. 😉
Some good came out of it I think with sheep handling tools inspired to ease the task of the shearers and to make the experience less annoying for the sheep.
CSIRO (IIRC) was OTOH working on “peel-off-wool” sheep; where the “shearing” was obviated by being able to pull out most of the wool “by hand”, leaving naked sheep shivering, suddenly without their wooly jumpers.
30
“the sheep didn’t comply with the software models”
Funny thing about models and nature 😉
31
I am dismayed. I understood the Abbott government to have repelled the green blob, but they have backed down to Green blackmail. I thought the Abbott government had grown a brain and testicles to go with the brain, but I have been disappointed.
Have they learnt nothing since the lessons of Chamberlain in 1939?
30
On the face of it, they have caved in to pressure. It is not true. This is a cunning move which costs nothing and frustrates the Greens totally. Unfortunately where Greens would not know the difference between an equation and an emu, science people rarely understand either business or politics. This cunning move is about both. It is not what it seems.
80
Does TdeF have some fantastic insight? In which case please do share. Or is it mostly just wishful thinking 😉
00
It annoys me greatly to see that things like the Green Climate Fund are smiled upon by the Green blobsters, when, as of last october, the GCF had $54 million in the kitty, but that was all allocated to keep themselves going, with at least 1 report due to cost them $1 million – yet they had no cash to hand out to anyone. Oh, and their last board meeting was in Barbados too…
If the likes of Gina Rinehart, Clive Palmer, or Rupert Murdoch were to spend their own money on a trip to Barbados, and funded a few meaningless reports, I can just see the ABC headlines, and the outrage!
Strange too, that no one ever had a go at Greg Combet for pledging 10% of CO2 tax revenue to the GCF in 2010, and only actually paying $500K. If that was a Liberal government, it’d be a weeks worth of ‘broken promise’ stories. The hypocrisy and the monumental waste of money is just heartbreaking, really.
60
Give Abbott and Bishop some credit – this is not new money, they have taken it from the foreign aid budget. So if global politics demands a contribution, and are happy to have our foreign aid directed at “green” projects, so be it. As Abbott said, the government is happy to contribute to more efficient energy use, just as they propose with Direct Action.
60
It also gives Aus some leverage in diplomacy terms. No money meant no skin in the game. Now that a (relatively) paltry $200m – to be spent and administered by Australia on projects that Australia selects/approves of (which, when you think about it, was extremely well-played by Bishop/Abbott/Hunt/The Brains Trust. We keep control of the money and spend it on things we probably would have funded anyway, but Bunky Moon and his Merry Band of Carboneers need the optics of ‘consensus’ more.) – has been put into the pot Bishop and Robb can say “we are fully paid up members of this club and we have just as much say as everybody else”.
There has been a conservative rush to condemn Bishop as a closet Greenie out to undermine Abbott etc etc, but I’m prepared to wait and see what she follows this announcement up with before passing judgement. I’m guessing the carrot will be followed by a stick.
As for Andrew Robb? He strikes me as not giving a tinker’s cuss about the optics. My bet is that he is playing the bad cop to Bishop’s ostensible ‘good’ cop.
Or, that could all be wrong.
30
I did not hear the same screams of anguish when the Gillard government donated A93million to the SA Hot Rocks company, the one spruiked by Tim Flannery who said the technology was ‘straightfoward’, as if a dead wombat specialist with no engineering, maths or physics or chemistry or geology would know. The directors in this high risk company were on $300,000 and $400,000 a year. What happened? Nothing. Money gone. At least in Indonesia, there will be real infrastructure and a real chance of saving something of the rainforest in the face of massive overpopulation.
80
IIRC, it was the Howard Givernment that poured the money down the acid pit.
10
i do wonder how the CAGW zealots at ABC/Fairfax/Guardian never seem to notice such alliances as outlined below!
9 Dec: CrainsChicagoBusiness: John Pletz: Monsanto nabs Chicago big-data startup 640 Labs
One of Chicago’s more interesting big-data startups, 640 Labs, has been acquired by agriculture giant Monsanto.
The company was bought by San Francisco-based Climate Corp., a fast-growing technology unit of Monsanto…
Founded by two former Motorola engineers, 640 Labs uses GPS, wireless and mobile technologies to give farmers detailed data on their crops and equipment to improve operations…
“The opportunity presented itself to partner with Climate Corp., and it looked like a great option for us,” Kull said…
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141209/BLOGS11/141209758/monsanto-nabs-chicago-big-data-startup-640-labs
Monsanto’s Climate Corp!
Oct 2013: Forbes: Bruce Upbin: Monsanto Buys Climate Corp For $930 Million
Who knew betting on the weather could make a billion dollars? It just did for The Climate Corporation, which underwrites weather insurance for farmers. Monsanto broke the news this morning that it was buying Climate for approximately $930 million…
Climate (formerly known as Weatherbill) has raised $107 million from a plethora of backers since it began fund raising in 2007. Its biggest investors include Khosla Ventures, New Enterprise Associates, Google Ventures, Index Ventures and Founders Fund…
Climate’s cofounders were early Google employees who saw a self-service approach to weather insurance, which had previously been sold in custom, over-the-counter negotiations. Clients go to its site and outline what range of temperatures and/or rainfall they want protection from, for a set period of time. In 100 milliseconds Weatherbill crunches forecasts and 30 years of National Weather Service and geological survey data for the user’s location. After adjusting–minutely–for climate change, Weatherbill names a price and acts as the underwriter…
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bruceupbin/2013/10/02/monsanto-buys-climate-corp-for-930-million/
10
***a lesson for the australian government:
9 Dec: Globe & Mail: Shawn McCarthy: Harper calls climate regulations on oil and gas sector ‘crazy economic policy’
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has retreated further from his pledge to regulate carbon emissions in the oil industry, saying it would be “crazy” to do so at a time of fallen crude prices.
In the House of Commons on Tuesday, the Prime Minister rebuffed calls for new measures to deal with the country’s fastest growing source of greenhouse gases just a day after an Environment Canada report suggested the country is falling well short of Mr. Harper’s international commitment to reduce emissions…
“We are clearly not going to do it.”…
***Mr. Harper promised for years to set emission limits for the industry under his government’s “sector-by-sector approach,” but in the past year, he has changed his tune, saying Canada cannot move on the issue until similar measures are adopted in the United States, where oil production has soared…
(PAT – OF COURSE A POLITICAL HACK IS ALLOWED BY THE MSM TO IGNORE THE US/CHINA REALITY & SPOUT SOME CAGW MILNE-STYLE NONSENSE RHETORIC)
New Democratic Party environment critic Megan Leslie accused the Prime Minister of breaking his promise …
“As countries from around the world act, as the largest emitters act, including China and the U.S., this Prime Minister and that government are letting Canadians down,” she said…
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-it-would-be-crazy-to-impose-climate-regulations-on-oil-industry/article22014508/
here’s the real lesson:
VIDEO: 10 Dec: Global News CA: Tom Clark: Tom’s Take: the real Stephen Harper steps up
The most interesting thing about the outright rejection of regulations on the oil and gas sector is that the government didn’t try to hide it in an omnibus bill, or bury it in a late Friday document dump. On the contrary, it shouted it from the rooftops, loud and proud, and dared anyone to disagree…
This tells you a few things.
First, this idea has been road tested. Focus groups of voters, no doubt, were given the scenario and gave their reactions.
It’s safe to say that enough of them, or at least enough who come from the conservative base, thought it was a great idea, because either: a) they believed it would be unfair to a suddenly struggling oil industry or b) because they never believed in regulation or climate change anyway.
Secondly, it suggests that the prime minister’s long standing commitment to regulating emissions was never more than an inch deep. His aversion to government interference in the marketplace, especially Alberta’s oil and gas industries, apparently is more longstanding…
What may be reasonable to assume is that Stephen Harper is just being the authentic Stephen Harper. He’s not a fan of regulation, he’s not going to play nice with environmentalists who will never vote for him anyway, and he is a student of what works politically, no matter who’s offended.
And like it or not, what often works politically is authenticity. Even if that means that to some people, he looks like Montgomery Burns of The Simpsons.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1717834/toms-take-oil-and-gas-regulations-arent-coming-anytime-soon/
30
what happens when you don’t learn the lesson about the pointlessness of appearing on ABC!
11 Dec: Herald-Sun: AAP: Tony Abbott policy – barnacles or turds?
IS the Abbott government scraping off barnacles or polishing turds?
PRIME Minister Tony Abbott prefers the former figure of speech to describe recent policy changes, but it appears ABC interviewer Jon Faine is partial to the latter.
Mr Abbott on Thursday sidestepped Faine’s accusation that attempts to save policies like university deregulation and a Medicare co-payment were like “polishing a turd”.
“Well, I suppose I have to excuse the aromatic language,” Mr Abbott replied…
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/tony-abbott-policy-barnacles-or-turds/story-fni0xqi4-1227152206587
i haven’t found the interview itself as yet, but to imagine a CBC/NHK/CCTV or even BBC presenter speaking to their head of Government in this manner is unthinkable. not surpised AAP has rushed to get this into print however, and without any criticism of Faine.
clean out the ABC now.
30
INTERPOL: Guide to CarbonTrading Crime June 2013
(at page 11:) 4 CARBON TRADING’S VULNERABILITY TO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY
Unlike traditional commodities, which at some time during the course of their market exchange must be physically delivered to someone, carbon credits do not represent a physical commodity but instead have been described as a
legal fiction that is poorly understood by many sellers, buyers and traders. This lack of understanding makes carbon trading particularly vulnerable to fraud and other illegal activity. Carbon markets, like other financial markets, are also at risk of exploitation by criminals due to the large amount of money invested, the immaturity of the regulations and lack of oversight and transparency.
Carbon markets involve more than just direct trading in carbon credits, they also include trading its derivatives and other financial instruments. As carbon markets develop, so too does the complexity of the financial instruments that can be traded. The recent global financial crisis has illustrated difficulties in regulating financial markets when financial instruments become too
complex to properly disaggregate and assess for compliance. Many of the same derivatives traders responsible for developing these complex financial instruments are also actively engaged in investing in the carbon market. The
financial crisis demonstrated the lack of technical and enforcement capacity among financial regulators to deal with complex financial instruments. The carbon market is at risk, therefore, of following the same path unless its
regulators are able to properly manage these complex financial instruments. -Interpol
“Offsets are an imaginary commodity created by
deducting what you hope happens from what you
guess would have happened.” -Dan Welch, British journalist
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/jun/16/climatechange.climatechange
source:
file:///C:/Users/publicadult7.PUBLIC/Downloads/Guide%20to%20Carbon%20Trading%20Crime.pdf
20
O/T Forgive me if this has already been posted.
Renewable energy ‘simply WON’T WORK’: Top Google engineers
The two men write:
At the start of RE<C, we had shared the attitude of many stalwart environmentalists: We felt that with steady improvements to today’s renewable energy technologies, our society could stave off catastrophic climate change. We now know that to be a false hope …
Renewable energy technologies simply won’t work; we need a fundamentally different approach.
Here's their original article: What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change
Today’s renewable energy technologies won’t save us. So what will?
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/what-it-would-really-take-to-reverse-climate-change
00
I forgive you.
Now say three Hail Gaia and install 3.5kW of PV solar in your basement.
80
no comments, Guardian?
11 Dec: Guardian: Dan Collyns in Lima: Greenpeace apologises to people of Peru over Nazca lines stunt
Culture ministry says it will press charges against activists for damage to world heritage site as UN climate talks began in Lima
A spokesman for Greenpeace said: “Without reservation Greenpeace apologises to the people of Peru for the offence caused by our recent activity laying a message of hope at the site of the historic Nazca lines. We are deeply sorry for this.
“Rather than relay an urgent message of hope and possibility to the leaders gathering at the Lima UN climate talks, we came across as careless and crass.”…
He (vice-minister for culture Luis Jaime Castillo) said the government was seeking to prevent those responsible from leaving the country while it asked prosecutors to file charges of attacking archaeological monuments, a crime punishable by up to six years in prison…
Peruvian authorities are also seeking the identity of the archaeologist who led the activists to the site and the plane from which the photos of the stunt were taken, he said. “It was thoughtless, insensitive, illegal, irresponsible and absolutely pre-meditated. Greenpeace has said it was planning this action for months.”…
In a statement Greenpeace said it was concerned that it could have caused “moral offence to the Peruvian people”.
The statement read: “Our history of more than 40 years of peaceful activism clearly shows that we have always been most respectful with people around the world and their diverse cultural legacies.”…
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/10/peru-press-charges-greenpeace-nazca-lines-stunt
11 Dec: AP: Frank Bajak: Greenpeace apologizes for Nazca lines stunt
LIMA, Peru (AP) — Greenpeace said Wednesday that its executive director will travel to Peru to personally apologize for the environmental group’s stunt at the world-famous Nazca lines, which Peruvian authorities say harmed the archaeological marvel.
The group said it was willing to accept the consequences. A senior Peruvian official told The Associated Press on Tuesday evening that his government would seek criminal charges against Greenpeace activists who allegedly damaged the lines by leaving footprints in the adjacent desert…
It said Greenpeace’s executive director, Kumi Naidoo, would travel to Lima this week to apologize. Greenpeace will fully cooperate with any investigation and is “willing to face fair and reasonable consequences,” the statement said…
The Greenpeace delegation chief to the climate talks, Martin Kaiser, said none of the people involved in the action had been arrested.
“I think activists are always taking responsibility for what they are doing,” he said. “We clearly underestimated the sensitivity of the situation.”
He would not say whether any activists face internal sanction for the action.
http://news.yahoo.com/greenpeace-apologizes-peru-stunt-181406223.html
00
“Greenpeace said it was concerned that it could have caused “moral offence ……..”
Hey ?? I thought that was their whole aim in existance.. to cause “moral offense”. !
First time for everything, I guess !!
42
OMG.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30422994
That is epic.
10
10 Dec: Wall St Journal: Robert Kozak: Peru Says Nazca Lines Damaged By Greenpeace Protest
Environmental Group Denies Monday’s Protest Caused Any Damage
Peru’s Deputy Culture Minister Luis Jaime Castillo said he didn’t accept Greenpeace’s apology, saying he considered it to be a legal disclaimer. He said that a prosecutor in the Nazca region has already charged some of the protestors, who authorities have identified. The government wants to detain the protesters before they can leave Peru…
http://www.wsj.com/articles/perus-government-says-nazca-lines-damaged-by-greenpace-protest-1418223245
10
I hope the Peru government prosecutes and wins. The Nazca Lines, a series of ancient geoglyphs located in the Nazca Desert, are an archaeological wonder that should not be messed up by ill mannered [Self-snip].
10
10 Dec: Bloomberg: Alex Morales: Thousands of Carbon-Capture Plants Needed to Curb Warming
LIMA: Thousands of power plants and factories will need to be fitted with carbon-capture and storage equipment to limit global warming to safe levels, former World Bank chief economist Nicholas Stern said. ..
The remaining cuts would result from a combination that must include renewable and nuclear energy, as well as CCS, he said.
“If you ruled it out, you’d be hammering on the other levers,” said Stern, now a member of the U.K. upper chamber, the House of Lords. “You’d make the whole story more expensive and you’d make it less likely.”…
“The scale of the CCS you’re talking about is a few thousand plants in the electricity sector and probably several thousand outside the electricity sector, because there’s a lot of industrial stuff that’s much smaller scale,” said Stern.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-09/thousands-of-carbon-capture-plants-needed-to-curb-warming.html
00
Carbon-Capture is not only a horrendous waste of time, engineering and money, it is also a truly dangerous.
Lake Nyos is in Africa where CO2 was bubbling into the lake from below. A sudden release of the gas kill 1,700 people as it flowed along the ground.
What are the chances something similar will happen with CO2 storage?
I rather live near a nuclear power plant… Wait I do!
00
So ‘green taxes’ are just a government rip off?
Where does Carbon Dioxide really come from?
Ian Rutherford Plimer is an Australian geologist, professor emeritus of earth sciences at the University of Melbourne, professor of mining geology at the University of Adelaide, and the director of multiple mineral exploration and mining companies.
He has published 130 scientific papers, six books and edited the Encyclopedia of Geology.
Born
12 February 1946 (age 67)
Residence
Australia
Nationality
Australian
Fields
Earth Science, Geology, Mining Engineering
Institutions
University of New England,University of Newcastle,University of Melbourne,University of Adelaide
Alma mater
University of New South Wales,Macquarie University
Thesis
The pipe deposits of tungsten-molybdenum-bismuth in eastern Australia (1976)
Notable awards
Eureka Prize (1995, 2002),Centenary Medal (2003), Clarke Medal
(2004)
Professor Ian Plimer could not have said it better!
If you’ve read his book you will agree; this is a good summary.
PLIMER: “Okay, here’s the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland.
Since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet – all of you.
Of course, you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress – its that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans and all animal life.
I know….it’s very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kids “The Green Revolution” science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of abroad, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your 50 cent light bulbs with $10.00 light bulbs…..
well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.
The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth’s atmosphere in just four days – yes, FOUR DAYS – by that volcano in Iceland which has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud at any one time – EVERY DAY.
I don’t really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt. Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth.
Yes, folks, Mt. Pinatubo was active for over one year – think about it.
Of course, I shouldn’t spoil this ‘touchy-feely tree-hugging’ moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keeps happening despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.
And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud, but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.
Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you, on the basis of the bogus ‘human-caused’ climate-change scenario.
Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention ‘Global Warming’ anymore, but just “Climate Change” – you know why?
It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull**** artists got caught with their pants down.
And, just keep in mind that you might yet be stuck with an Emissions Trading Scheme – that whopping new tax – imposed on you that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer.
It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure.
But, hey, relax…give the world a hug and have a nice day!”
71
Plimer is a great geologist and his book heavy in real facts and analysis based on known geology, physics and chemistry. He is an entertaining writer as well. The anticyclic nature of Arctic and Antarctic sea ice should have been noted by Prof Turney and his Ship of Fools, if they had only read a real book on the subject.
Anyway, if so much CO2 came out from the volcanoes at events like Pinaturbo or Iceland, we could quickly see it in the total CO2 measurements say at Mauna Loa in Hawaii and even watch the spread of this trace gas across the planet, but there has been no evidence in the CO2 records, has there?
Even if the effect is smaller than stated, you can radiocarbon date the air itself. C14, the extremely rare isotope of C12 is formed in the upper atmosphere and while it has a long half life of 5400 years, by human standards, it is nothing over geological timescales. So old CO2 has no C14 at all.
The C14/C12 ratio can be measured every instant. Only one in a trillion CO2 is C14. A huge input of old CO2 from a volcano would show a real step in the C14/C12 ratio, dropping C14/C12 ratios suddenly. This is not visible either. But possibly. The big blips are from atomic explosions which increase C14/C12 and the rapid decay of these demonstrates conclusively that CO2 has a 14 year half life in the atmosphere, not the 80 year value claimed by the IPCC, dropping its effect as a greenhouse gas x 5.
So much as Prof Plimer’s statements about CO2 from volcanoes is very interesting and of great importance, in measurements of total CO2 and C14/C12 it would be important to see the confirmation of the huge quantity of old CO2 released.
11
So in other words the greens are masochists. They’re going to be bummed when they find out the handle on that whip the government will be beating them with was made using petroleum products…
00
11 Dec: DNA India: Reuters: US says no China-style climate deal in works for India
“We don’t have that kind of process going on with India,” US climate envoy Todd Stern told a news conference during December 1-12 talks among 190 nations in Lima on ways to slow global warming.
Stern met with Indian Environment Minister Prakash Javadekar on Sunday. Javadekar told reporters he will have a second meeting with Stern on Thursday, as well as bilateral talks with Australia, Germany and Bolivia…
“India is in a completely different economic situation from China,” said Robert Stavins, director of the Harvard Environmental Economics Program…
Javadekar: “Let us not stretch it too far if there is something that is not agreed upon by all because there is one year to go,” he said. “This is not the last opportunity.”
He added that he wants to see more money pledged to support developing countries in their fight against climate change…
But he warned that some of what was raised is not new funding and that getting from that level to the longer-term UN goal to raise up to $100 billion per year for climate finance by 2020 will require an impossible leap.
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-us-says-no-china-style-climate-deal-in-works-for-india-2043006
10 Dec: USA Today: Simeon Tegel, Global Post: Lima climate talks aren’t focusing on keeping temps down
Oxfam America spokesman Ben Grossman-Cohen described the talks so far as “lethargic,” with few nations willing to give up “extreme” negotiating positions.
Tasneem Essop, a climate expert at the World Wildlife Fund, added: “(The negotiators) seem to have forgotten that they are here to solve a planetary emergency.”…
The talks are well past the stage of attempting to avoid climate change; instead, they are effectively focused on preventing things from turning from bad to devastating…
SO WHAT ARE THEY NEGOTIATING ABOUT?
The Lima talks aren’t focusing on keeping the temperature down to a specific level.
Instead, the international poker game that these talks have become has gotten rather technical. “Mitigation,” “adaptation” and “Nationally Determined Contributions,” or NDCs, are the biggest buzzwords here…
CLIMATE BAD BOYS
Those with large reserves of oil or coal, such as Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and Poland, have the most to lose from a serious global crackdown on fossil fuels, and have been, to varying degrees, singled out for criticism. Meanwhile, the Obama administration’s strategy for reducing U.S. emissions, although well received by many, has also met skepticism…
Australia has won the gong an astonishing three times, including for trying to keep the “loss and damage” suffered by poor nations out of the treaty text and, separately, attempting to set up an alliance with other governments, like Canada, that share Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s climate skepticism.
Other winners have included Saudi Arabia, for opposing measures aimed at helping women fight climate change; Switzerland, for threatening poor countries over their insistence on making an eventual treaty legally binding; Japan, for claiming that cash for coal plants in developing nations was climate funding; host Peru, for undermining the very environment ministry that is hosting the climate conference; and a group of seven developed nations that have failed to pay into the multibillion-dollar “Green Climate Fund” to help poor countries cope with the climate crisis.
And yes, Australia was one of those seven…
Whatever treaty is eventually signed, there will still remain a laundry list of unknowns…
Another huge variable is India…
“We have a right to development,” says Ravi Prasad, one of the negotiators, when asked how Delhi will tackle climate change.
No one can argue with that. At least not while richer nations fail to agree to stronger measures themselves.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/12/10/globalpost-lima-peru-climate-talks/20188549/
00
11 Dec: Business Spectator John Upton: Climate pact gridlock sets in at Lima talks
LIMA: For a sense of the frustrating tenor of climate negotiations underway here, which aim to agree on a clear outline of a new international climate-protecting agreement, consider this: One of the two draft documents being thrashed out had, by Wednesday morning, with just three days of a fortnight of talks remaining, ballooned into an unworkable 52-page opus.
And not a single paragraph within the latest iteration of that 52-page draft had been agreed upon by the troop of international climate negotiators…
Some paragraphs in one document currently include as many as 11 options to be chosen from.
“Countries are expanding, not shrinking the options,” said Jake Schmidt, a Natural Resources Defense Council official involved with the talks…
The latest version of the drafts are not publicly available, but their hulking stature were described and discussed during a press conference in Lima on Wednesday held by European officials.
“The negotiations under the ADP are still on track, but progress is much slower than we want and need,” European Commissioner Miguel Arias Canete told reporters. “We will need a simple text for political decisions to be taken. It is now high time to pick up the pace.”
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/12/11/policy-politics/climate-pact-gridlock-sets-lima-talks
00
LOL:
10 Dec: RTCC: Al Gore gets poetic in call for Lima climate action
By Megan Darby in Lima
Al Gore arrived at UN climate talks in Lima on Wednesday in an optimistic mood. The former US vice president and climate champion’s first port of call was China’s “pavilion” in the temporary village.
In describing his hopes for a deal, Gore quoted poets from three languages: Chinese, Spanish and English –
Lu Xun, China – “Hope is a path on the mountainside. At first there is no path. But then there are people passing that way. And there is a path.”
Antonio Machado, Spain – “Traveller, there is no path. You must make the path as you walk.”
Wallace Stevens, US – “After the final no, there comes a yes. And on that yes, the future world depends.”
http://www.rtcc.org/2014/12/10/al-gore-gets-poetic-in-call-for-lima-climate-action/
20
2014 started out so well for plight of the CAGW skeptical voice but the LNP’s recent pandering to the Green blob is simply unacceptable.
When will the timing be right to back away from UN CAGW appeasement?
Why would anyone think the Green blob will stop accepting free money?
How is participating in a scam a tactical necessity?
Do our elected representatives understand the participation of a wrong is acceptance?
Two things are possibly occurring ATM, the government is panicking over votes and global trade and deem CAGW appeasement the best choice, or they couldn’t care less about the truth of CAGW and will ‘move forward’ with the rest of the Agenda 21 mob as was always planned.
People can try to ‘church up’ the LNP’s decisions but the brutal reality is hard decisions need to be made and made now before we get any weaker to the point of no return, at this rate Australia will be a ‘little’ Spain or Greece.
30
‘Do our elected representatives understand the participation of a wrong is acceptance?’
Abbott didn’t want anyone going to Lima, but Bishop put him in check. It appears to be a sleight of hand using the Aid Budget, yet in the fullness of time it should be beneficial to our region because the government has total say in how its spent. This is a better outcome than having it fall into a UN black hole.
The war on mass delusion won’t be won over night, Abbott made this small concession, but its the last because he knows the science is crap.
20
I do understand there is a time for diplomacy in International relations, however this annoying UN Green Blob has had enough strikes to be shown the door.
If Australia was being lauded as a leader in ‘climate dissention’ then we should have ran with it, after all we are a sovereign nation and should be able to use our resources as we damn well please without some fu$#ing Eurocrat or jumped up socalist from a failed backwards sh$thole having the absolute front to lecture us on right from wrong according to their delusional scam.
Now is the time for a “This is Sparta!” moment and kick the UN into that black hole, do this and we’ll see how many follow, if not we still have a perfectly good country to rebuild and grow like we did in the first place, to hell with these useless parasites I never want to see their ilk tainting our soil again!
00
It would be fair to say we are all very disappointed in what the government did, Abbott was steamrolled by Bishop and its not a good look.
It was never going to be easy standing outside groupthink, yet this reluctant concession may help open up the debate. Bishop wants India and China to get real on their contribution, they won’t like that, its not in the script.
Ideally, we need to get the world’s media talking about the science, so that this monstrous fraud is brought to a close.
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The MSM has developed into the biggest problem for skeptics and the biggest asset for scammers, thanks for persevering with a grumpy patriot el gordo 🙂
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In the end the climate will win (no AGW). With this move, its just going to take probably a whole generation. I doubt that the next labour government will be even have the slightest interest in a carbon tax ect though.
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‘Over the period 1980-2014, climate models projected the global temperature to rise at a rate of 0.24°C/decade while NOAA observations pegged the rise at 0.14°C/decade, about 40 percent less. Over the last 16 years, the observed rise is nearly 66 percent less than climate model projections. The situation is getting worse, not better. This is the real news, because it means that prospects for overly disruptive climate change are growing slimmer, as are justifications for drastic intervention.
‘We don’t expect many stories to look any further than their “2014 is the warmest year ever” headlines.’
Patrick J. Michaels and Paul C. “Chip” Knappenberger, from Cato’s Center for the Study of Science,.
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Phony Tony hasn’t surprised me at all. He was a spineless flake from the outset. The guy is a midget PM the same as Gillard and KRudd. We don’t have a single leader in the whole house. It’s a crime what these career university failures are doing to our culture. Look at the halal food scandal, no one is brave enough to mention the fact we are getting taxed by a religious minority. The same with the warming scam. They would all rather sit in the boat and not rock it. We are being betrayed by treasonous parasites who are feeding off our tax money and doing nothing to help the average Australian. Disgusting
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This is not what the Green Blob wants to hear.
NEW YORK (AP) — ‘North America, once a sponge that sucked in a significant portion of the world’s oil, will instead be supplying the world with oil and other liquid hydrocarbons by the end of this decade, according to ExxonMobil’s annual long-term energy forecast.
‘And the “almost unspeakable” amount of natural gas found in recent years in the U.S. and elsewhere in North America will be enough to make the region one of the world’s biggest exporters of that fuel by 2025, even as domestic demand for it increases, according to Bill Colton, Exxon’s chief strategist.
“The world has such an improved outlook for supplies,” Colton said in an interview. “Peak oil theorists have been run out of town by American ingenuity.”
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Mitigation & Adaption ? Big Words.
AUS $ 200 Million could have saved a lot of drought stricken Australian farmers & graziers.
https://m.facebook.com/MountMorrisStation/photos/pb.495163457217382.-2207520000.1418283829./806739126059812/?type=1&source=54
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I thought the drought stricken farmers would be happy to let the free market use it’s guiding hand to weed them out given most vote for the free market fundamentalists? Oh that’s right, they’re only free markets supporters until they need a govt hand-out and then they suddenly revert to agrarian socialism and beg the taxpayer to bail them out. But stuff the car manufacturers, corner store owners they do have to sink or swim. Farmers are special.
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Your lack of taste and inability to reason are the only skills on your resume aren’t they?
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Speaks the urbane lambrusco socialist, whose understanding of foreclosure is little better than their golf handicap.
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As Doreen Hannes said: LET THEM EAT GRASS! Of course in the middle of a drought Aussies don’t even have grass to eat.
This was written about the WTO/internationalist attack on US farming resulting in the ‘harmonized’ laws that are the same in Australia.
I do not necessarily agree with the politics of this group but the facts are correct as far as I can tell and I have been looking at this issue for a decade.
Agropoly – A handful of corporations control world food production
This is from Purdue University, a very good Ag school in Indiana.
THE FOOD AND AGRICULTURAL GLOBAL CARTELS OF THE 1990s
Unfortunately the grab for control of the food supply is pretty much complete. In a couple more decades the large corporations will own complete control.
OH, and in the USA the new food law is written in such a way that a one line amendment will mean it also regulates the tomato plant on your back portch and the rosemary on the windowsill.
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The underlying point in the editorial, is that if a billion dollars a day is flowing to Green projects which are fundamentally useless, why isn’t a tiny amount flowing to sceptics? Why are people who consider the sex life of an obscure amphibian more important than other life on earth funded to study the effects of non occuring global warming and undefined climate change when real science is neglected? Why are people paid to fudge figures when scrupulous scientists would take no pay just to set the record straight? It is all about Monckton’s profiteers of doom, people who have realised there is great money in scaring people and none in telling them there is no problem. Enter most of the world’s religions and many of the world’s governments. Fear has people reaching for their wallets. Dictators always create a mythical enemy, a Great Satan, a barbarous neighbour, an envious class and they appeal to fear and greed.
The efforts of honest people to set the record straight is much appreciated. It is slowly turning the tide, but you also have to give credit to the fact that none of the predictions of imminent disaster have proven true. There has been no rapture, no inundation of major cities, no endless drought, no mass extinction and no mass deaths and in fact no warming at all.
So we appreciate the work here to bring the truth to a world audience and watch with amazement as the UN spins its story of disaster, lacking only any connection with actual events. It has been so wonderful that the warming has stopped and so unexpected. The fact that it debunks CO2 hothouse theories is extremely useful. Whatever was causing the warming, if in fact a cause was needed, it was not CO2. The question is what scare will the Profiteers of Doom try next, or will they just head to Paris anyway.
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Did Tony Abbott really feel compelled by such cowardly suggestion as threats of
” sanctions, or in transit examinations of perishable goods exported from Australia.”
to hand over $200 Million ?
A strong and independent nation like Australia. Has Abbott just joined the soft fruits of world leadership ? The ones that can quickly go off ? What will this do to his standing , after being seen standing up to Putin an all and who does that leave ?
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http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/10/report-from-lima-climate-conference-al-gore-preaches-hellfire-and-redemption/
BWAHAHAHA!!!
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heavy political and economic players behind carbon tax programs, behind derivatives taxpayer-guaranteed
In May 2000, ICE (Intercontinental Exchange) was founded by Sprecher and backed by Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley,BP, Total, Shell, Deutsche Bank and Societe Generale [5][6] who represent some of the world’s largest energy traders….The principal backers for ICE US Trust were the same financial institutions most affected by the crisis, the top ten of the world’s largest banks (Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citi, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, JPMorgan, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley and UBS). Sprecher’s clearing house cleared their global credit default swaps (CDS) in exchange for sharing profits with these banks.(Weitzman 2008)(Terhune 2010)….
In June 2001, ICE expanded its business into futures trading by acquiring the London based International Petroleum Exchange (IPE), now ICE Futures Europe, which operated Europe’s leading open-outcry energy futures exchange….In April 2010 ICE acquired Climate Exchange PLC (included Chicago Climate Exchange) for 395 million pounds ($622 million) and European Climate Exchange (ECX) as part of its purchase.[14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_Exchange
IntercontinentalExchange (NYSE: ICE), a leading operator of regulated global futures exchanges, clearing houses and over-the-counter (OTC) markets, announced in April 2010 that it had agreed on terms to acquire Climate Exchange plc.[5] That acquisition was completed in July 2010[6] and was followed by an announcement that half of the company’s Chicago-based workforce would be laid off due to inactivity in the U.S. carbon markets.[7] In November 2010, the Climate Exchange stated that it would cease trading carbon credits at the end of 2010, although carbon exchanges will still be facilitated.[1][2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Climate_Exchange
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By Sandor’s reckoning, cap-and-trade represents a $10 trillion-per-year market. Recognizing the enormous profit potential, Generation Investment Management (GIM) – a carbon-offset company whose chairman and founding partner is Al Gore – purchased a 10 percent stake in CCX and became the company’s fifth largest co-owner. In 2006, Goldman Sachs also purchased a 10 percent share of CCX….(Next) came into key roles at CCX: Rajenra Pachauri, head of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, (&) Maurice Strong (who) had previously served as Secretary General of the 1992 UN Conference on Environment and was a leading architect of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, an international agreement that set binding GHG-reduction targets for 37 industrialized countries. Strong has a history of insider-trading transgressions. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printgroupProfile.asp?grpid=7526
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The fact that the original shareholders of the CCX have already bailed out with their sale to Intercontinental Exchange Inc. for a modest $600 million earlier this year only reinforces the reality that its creators have already lost faith in their elaborate invention. Likewise, the self-styled leaders of the climate change crusade Maurice Strong and Al Gore have already cashed in carbon fortunes already, whilst other active politicians like US President Barrack Obama, and United Nations IPCC Chief Rajendra K. Pachauri (arguably the world’s wealthiest retired railway engineer) are engaged in similar play with their own financial interests in the Carbon Markets, (especially CCX).
Like all government rigged quasi-commercial schemes, the only real beneficiaries are the initial shareholders – a special inner circle who are naturally ahead of the curve knowing about legislation and policy before it comes into existence. They are sometimes called the great and the good, the in-crowd, or the smartest men in the room (again,see Enron). Of these, almost all have jumped ship out of the market while their preferred shares- or in the case of the larger energy and manufacturing monopolies, their gratis “carbon allowances” given to them free by their governments – are still worth something. If you’re on the inside, it’s simple: get in early, make money and then get out. http://21stcenturywire.com/2010/08/27/the-great-collapse-of-the-chicago-climate-exchange/
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On March 19, 2007 the “Investors Network on Climate Risk” (INCR) held a Washington event to demand Federal action to impose mandatory reductions in greenhouse gases, claiming they represent a $4 trillion pool of funds demanding green ventures. Members of INCR, founded at the UN in 2003, include British Petroleum, Allianz Insurance, the world’s largest insurance firm; DuPont, and hosts of state, labor, and church funds of various kinds, that have been herded into line. The INCR is chaired by British activist Norman Dean, who is simultaneously Director of Friends of the Earth….
ICE, though juridically located in London, is headquartered in Atlanta, operating as a de jure off-shore agency. “No-action letters” between the Bank of England and the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, protect the ICE from any form of regulation or record-keeping required by American agencies. ICE is thus literally a British “offshore financial center.” The 2006 Senate Democratic Policy Report calling for forcing regulation of the ICE, was subtitled, “Put a Cop Back on the Beat.”
Among the latest developments, ICE is making a play for acquiring the Chicago Board of Trade.
Who are the major owners of ICE (Intercontinental Exchange Inc.)? According to ICE’s 2006 filings with the SEC, as of Sept. 30, 2005, with percent of ICE shares owned: Morgan Stanley Capital, 11.62%; Goldman Sachs Group, 11.59%: Total Investments USA Inc., 8.12%; BP Products, 7.59%.
Others include Duke Energy, AEP, Continental Power Exchange, Societe Generale Financial Corp.
This then is the context for the many front groups and political patsies leading the bums’ rush for governments to mandate carbon-emission reductions and unleash the “markets.” On Jan. 22, 2007, in Washington, D.C., the “United States Climate Action Partnership” (USCAP) announced itself, consisting of ten major corporations including Lehman brothers, Duke Energy, DuPont, Florida Power & Light, BP America, Alcoa, Caterpillar, General Electric, Pacific Gas & Electric, and PNM Resources. They released a “Call to Action,” which, in global warming lingo, “lays out a blueprint for a mandatory economy-wide, market-driven approach to climate protection” (see http://www.us-cap.org).
The World Bank is also on the bandwagon in a big way, led by WB president Paul Wolfowitz since 2005, when he moved in from the Bush-Cheney Administration. The World Bank has a Carbon Finance Organization (www.carbonfinance.org), working as part of the International Emissions Trading Association, to further carbon markets. Wolfowitz personally spoke on Feb. 14 in Washington on global warming, making the pitch that underdeveloped nations can expect to see a flow of some $100 billions from the developed nations, if carbon-reducing schemes are allowed to proceed in the markets.
The Felix Rohatyn wing of the operation is seen in Lehman Brothers participation. Lehman’s CEO, Richard Fuld is their spokesman on environmental economics. Fuld’s advisor is Rohatyn, whose long career as “bankers’ dictator” has specialized in forcing governments to submit to private financial dictates.
The Lehman/USCAP has supplied witnesses all over Capitol Hill in February and March, lobbying for government action on mandatory carbon control. On March 20, a day before Al Gore’s celebrity appearance in Congress, the CEOs of Duke Energy and PNM Resources testified to the House Energy Committee that they supported a cap-and-trade program….The George Shultz wing of the carbon swindle, operating throughout, is most visible in its front-man, Arnold Schwarzenegger….
At the Federal level, Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.),the leading bipartisan warmongers, have been the leading bipartisan GHG markets advocates. Since 2003, they have repeatedly filed joint bills to cap emissions and launch GHG markets. Their 2007 version, filed in January, is S. 280. In an article they co-authored in theLos Angeles Times, Jan. 8, 2003, titled, “Tap U.S. Innovation To Ease Global Warming,” McCain and Lieberman wrote the format line that, “Global warming is a serious threat. There is overwhelming evidence that increasing amounts of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are heating up the Earth’s climate and that inaction could be disastrous. http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3413carbon_swindle.html
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12-9-14 Is it a coincidence that Republican leaders in Congress are in a strong push, with Wall Street bankers, to pass legislation which allows commodity derivatives, among other types of these financial weapons of mass destruction, to be put under FDIC insurance? In other words, to make the U.S. taxpayer the guarantor for financial derivatives speculation in the many tens of trillions of dollars of “nominal value.”
This, on the path to another financial blowout.
This was the reason the negotiations on a resolution to fund the government for the months ahead, suddenly broke down on Monday night. House Republicans led by Jeb Hensarling (TX) and Mike Rogers (MI) had pushed Senate Democratic negotiators into agreeing to attach this Wall Street crime to the government funding bill, when a public revolt was begun by Senate Banking Committee Democrats Jeff Merkeley (OR), Sherrod Brown (OH), and Elizabeth Warren (MA), along with retiring Senators Tom Harkin (IA) and Carl Levin (MI), and spread to Democrats in the House. http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/2014/141209_oil_debt.html
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Whenever I ask the CAGW proponents to work the science – to use the scientific method – to formulate their testable hypothesises – they never do so. If they want to prove their case they need to work the science. What I would suggest is that instead of giving away (wasting) $200M the federal government uses it to establish a scientific laboratory and to run that laboratory to run the science.
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A simple scientific observation & analysis :-
If one is to extract all the human made sources of heat generation and retention – heat islands, warm machinery, central heating etc. (and this would include any supposedly produced by CO2) then one can look at the weather \ climate in the sparsely populated areas of the world. A good place to look at is the South West of Western Australia (Busselton and below) – it is sparsely populated, it is away from the more populated Eastern States and it is far away from the heavily populated Northern Hemisphere. As such it provides a good simple measure on what is happening to the world’s climate :-
1) over recent years there have been a number of cold springs and late summers.
2) this last year particularly there has been a frequent cold wind. It is an odd wind and totally out of place in its nature.
Check what’s happening – profile the temperatures – there are local weather stations there. My guess is that far from global warming we are actually entering a cooling period.
http://isthereglobalcooling.com/
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/aug/14/tony-abbott-adviser-warns-of-threat-of-global-cooling
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Science-US-climate-oceans/2014/10/06/id/598864/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html
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