The evidence is overwhelming right?
Civilization is a pretty thin veneer, really.
Bullying and coercion is not just a school-yard thing. It’s everywhere and even at the highest levels.
This report on Australian surgeons was released a few months ago, uncovering bad behaviour from people we would normally think of as being outstanding and pretty darn smart. So bullying works even on people at the top of the pecking order, and in supposedly the most caring of professions.
We humans are a gregarious lot, and we pretend we’re all rational, but the pressure to conform and fit in is intense. Even for rational souls it’s easier to say nothing. No wonder the climate science debate is loaded with namecalling, bad manners, and petty mockery. Politicians and newspaper editors often don’t speak up because they are afraid of being called stupid or a “denier”.
Bullying-endemic-among-surgeons-but-victims-too-scared-to-speak-up
Bullying, discrimination and sexual harassment are rife in the surgical profession, a damning report has found.
Half the surgeons and trainees who responded said they had been victimized.
We are winning the debate on the science, but we need to win the social war too:
Although about three out of five registered trainees surveyed said they’d been bullied, making complaints was widely believed to be “career suicide”.
Sexism was entrenched and endemic and sexual harassment pervasive, with women reporting they felt powerless to protest.
You let people off too easily. There is a lot of reporting to the “narrative” these days and as long as a consistent picture is being painted no one challenges the accepted narrative. With news channels becoming very political and regularly showing a point of view that appeals to an audience, there is little motivation to get it accurate, rather it’s get it acceptable to that audience. Its no longer news, it’s more like a political flyer or talking point to justify a position. That’s a very said state of affairs.
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This will have to change some time in the future or else we may be facing serious consequences. I only hope its not too late.
While undermining capitalism is the transparent goal of some who support the IPCC, the real danger lies elsewhere. Only western climate science is influenced by regressive green politics and elsewhere, they know that our delusional obsession with CO2 emissions will inevitably lead to their advance at our expense by maneuvering around the penalties imposed to insure that climate reparations advance the developing world at the expense of the developed world.
We are already seeing this with China and Russia as their leaders give lip service to the issue as its beneficial to encourage a powerful opponent to be stupid while their internal policies will not spend a ruble or yuan to mitigate climate change concerns.
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My day job (when I am not annoying folks here) consists of providing unbiased analysis of world events to company executives.
News reports used to have multiple layers. Hard facts about the event itself, detailed information regarding what the local authorities did about it, how and when it was reported, and by whom, what bias was introduced into the process, and how the reported event related to other events that happened before, during, and after the one being analysed, and how those were reported.
That structure has slowly been eroded, and has been replaced by the opinion of the first journalist on the scene, which gets repeated by all the other journalists, and the institutional bias of the reporting medium, as applied by the editor.
We now often get motive intertwined with the event itself, so a simple traffic accident can become morphed into a ram-raid by an ethnic minority member, on the wife of a prominent WASP politician. And all in the mind of the journalist, acting without any real evidence.
Not all journalists are like that, but some that are, are moving up through the press hierarchy, into editorial positions. Their stories are the ones that sell newspapers. We call it Fark.
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I ‘d like your job Rereke, if only to supply an sensible perspective which is what I suspect you provide. You are selling common sense, a rare commodity. Journalists by enlarge seem to me to be reactive by rote depending on their ingrained prejudice and the imperatives of their seniors. Only those who have ‘made it’ seem to put their individualism on show. It would’t be a bad thing if they were manufacturing thingamees on some industrial estate, but since they are informing the opinions of the public at large it’s a flocking disaster. Baaaahhh!
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Nah…. it is not bullying that is the problem.
It is suggestibility that is the problem.
When mass psychosis occurs, it is suggestibility that causes the herd instinct of not thinking for ones self.
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Bullying is endemic to politics and the codependency of climate science and otherwise unsupportable political agendas has seriously contaminated climate science. The only reason to be a bully is when you cant get your way and since the physics and data doesn’t support the IPCC’s version of climate science, the only recourse for the believers is to bully those who don’t agree with their broken science.
The keystone failure was the significant over estimation of the sensitivity required to justify the original IPCC charter. Subsequently canonized by the consensus they built, it led to a cascade of other failures, meanwhile; the IPCC will never get this right because to do so undermines their reason to exist as the media and partisan politics enables their denial by pushing a false narrative and bullying those who dare to disagree.
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This transfers directly over to CAGW and I confess to being a perpetrator of such behaviour as I’ve told many a warmist to go [SNIP-18c] themselves.
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That’s just reasserting a balance of power!
I suspect that the only language bullies understand is their own lingua franca. They’re cowards. Playing them back and exposing them to their own painfully boorish behaviour is quite effective. Their own insight into their behaviour is often underdeveloped to say the least.
However, within the climate change crowd, a sense of belonging and the warm fuzzies associated with being on a mission to ‘redeem’ humanity from the original sin of existence apparently carries many along quite happily, as the Crusades seemed to once show. They just need to be shown that it’s not only pointless but frankly incorrect. They’re just flat-out wrong.
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And how much silly bullying has been carried out because of this non-existent ACO2 influence.
The first half century natural climate variability the second half due to ACO2:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1900/to:1950/trend/plot/hadcrut3gl/from:1950/to:2000/trend
Not to mention the shocking waste of money and resources.
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OT. Australia will not commit to additional finance to developing countries to combat climate change.
Greg Hunt, The Australian, today.
Confirms what I related here the other week. A shrewd game is being played out.
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I obviously missed the other day scaper –can you elaborate on the shrewd game please.
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Fingers crossed scaper, we live in hope not all are insane.
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My understanding was that Julie Bishop had already committed to $200 million dollars a year down the green sewer.
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She was very upset with PM Abbott, she wanted to commit much more of our money but he instructed her that a maximum of $200 million over four years was the limit, and it had to come from her foreign affairs budget, no new money. And Treasury Hockey had cut the foreign affairs budget which also made her furious. Noting that in return for being a good boy after he was knifed former PM Rudd negotiated a substantial increase in the foreign affairs budget so the cuts made by Hockey were fair and reasonable. Unless you are a Minister and it is your budget that you swan around the world handing out.
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Yes, she did so in Chilie this year, but it comes from the foreign aid budget. I wrote to my MP, Louise Marcus last week re the Paris Jamboree, telling her that if Turnbull/Bishop/Hunt signed away our sovereignty my vote was gone. She actually rang me (!!) to tell me that Bishop had sent out a memo to all MPs telling them that we would be signing nothing in Paris (perhaps Hunt’s announcement today re our targets applies) and that we were now the co-chair of Bob Brown’s Bank and would have some say in where the money goes – believe that if you like. She also suggested that the Pacific atolls were sinking – I fixed that one up!
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Thought I caught a snippet of Turnbull on TV from the Philippines today saying in effect that coal will still be used for major power generation for a long time yet. Can’t seem to locate the video by checking on the ABC site. If I got it right Turnbull may not be quite the energy ignoramus we thought he was.
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From The Australian today;
Australia will reveal at the Paris climate change conference that it has met its 2020 emissions reduction target.
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The comment about career suicide is very applicable to many fields if one opposes the accepted point of view of any profession or organisation. Not long ago most physicians did not believe that stomach ulcers were caused by a bacterium, until Barry Marshall inoculated himself with Helicobacter and then cured himself with antibiotics for which he eventually got a Nobel prize and the thanks of millions of sufferers.
More applicable to the AGW hypothesis is the treatment by some organisations to those who oppose the group think, particularly universities and governments and recent opposition to Dr.Lomborg as an example.
A lot of commentry about the inadequacies of the AGW hypothesisis is coming from retired employees of BOM, CSIRO, who could not freely air their views as employees.
Perhaps the most insidious point about AGW is the need to tow the line to get research funding, and look at the total waste of funding spent on green energy, hot rocks, carbon capture etc.
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20 odd years it took to get that prize.
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Hello Rob O,
Lets also salute his partner in crime and fellow recipient of the Nobel in Medicine in 2005. J.R. Warren. Is his nickname Rabbit by any chance?
These are/were UWA people so Jo may be able to add to this story.
An Australian documentary was made in 2006 about Warren and Marshall’s road to the Nobel Prize, called “The Winner’s Guide to the Nobel Prize”.
This also deals with the dismiss, ridicule and anger they received while undertaking and reporting the new process.
‘The Science and Medicine was ‘Settled’ and The Established Order certainly let them know it
Fortunately giving up was not a considered option and the rest is Nobel History but, importantly, the benefit to the health of so many experiencing pain and life altering disability from that pain due to this particular strain of ulcer.
To further emphasise this fabulous example of science and research, further study showed the condition to be even better sorted with a dual antibiotic approach(and possibly even other treatments by now) and at no time did Warren and Marshall demand that ‘Their Science Was ‘Settled’ and demand an end to meddling so even further health benefits eventuated.
Science. Research. Open Inquiry.
That is not a Novel Concept. Surely?
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I was told that Marshal and Warren took up some older research and presented as their own. There was never any reference to the original research.
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I hate to say it but this phenomenon is probably as old as the human race. The temptation to “lord it over” anyone you legitimately have some power over isn’t much of a surprise, especially the sexual abuse of juniors under your supervision. It’s the worst bullying of all.
But finding it rampant in a profession that must be as disciplined as an MD or surgeon must be, is very disturbing. I’ve committed my very life to the hands of a thoracic surgeon and now you leave me wondering what distractions may have been on his mind as he opened me up to do a coronary artery bypass. There’s precious little leeway for distraction or any mistake. As it was, the post surgery report, which I was sent after recovery, told about a slippery blood vessel getting away from the surgeon and his having to go after it with a fresh not so slippery forceps so he could clamp it off.
It makes easier reading after the fact, believe me.
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And as I found out on the school playground, sometimes by the one being bullied (me) fighting back.
I don’t advocate this… …but now and then it appears to be a necessary thing. I finally returned a punch for a punch and to my surprise, the bully, weighing more than I did, was backing away from me as fast as he could while trying to defend himself against my very inaccurate and almost non existent fist fist-fighting skill. The bullying ended right then and there.
As a last resort, or if the pressure from a bully is great enough I think you may have no choice.
It’s bad enough among our children. Adults should be able to do better than they do.
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I was bullied every day for several years on the school bus, both physical and psychological. I hated the trip. But one day I got very angry and slapped the face of the senior boy two years older than me. While he slapped me right back at the time he never bullied me again and in fact seemed to be pleased I stood up to him.
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I used to be bullied at high school, & regret not fighting back against my oppressors at the time, because I had been taught at home that fighting was not permitted. To my cost, I proved that turning the other cheek does not appease bullies.
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Bullies generally bully people they are envious of and find themselves in a position where they have some sort of power over those very same people. My experience anyway.
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We had a cadet force (linked to the Roysl Scots) at my school in Edinburgh. It was the “tradition” that at the summer camp the second year cadets would raid the bunk room of the first year recruits and have a mass “black-balling”. Boot polish was used, need I explain further? We recruits were terrified prior to camp. My mother, bless her fighting spirit, told me to organise an ambush and fight back. We did – with socks loaded with wet sand we lay in wait for the second yearers on the dark, beat them around the heads solidly with our socks and chased them around the camp to the cheers of the regular soldiers. We captured the ringleader, the school bully, and covered him from head to toe in black boot polish. The “trafition” ended that year.
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A preemptive strike. Good show! 🙂
And that it ended the hazing is even better.
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More disturbing is that those scientists who believe in CAGW consider pointing out their mistakes and requests to support their science with fact as micro aggressions, which is the political lefts new rationalization to call dissent and alternative points of view bullying.
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Roy, your MD is equivalent to our MBBS. We have an Masters Degree in Medicine plus a real Doctorate in Medicine. Goodness knows what your equivalent of our MD is.
On the same note your army sergeant is equivalent to our lance corporal.
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I agree with Jos point about networking and I think the political left and especially the Greens are good at it –especially social media networking in the Greens case.
But I think it also has a major downside. They end up talking to themselves and they’ll just believe anything the group says. In the last NZ elections this showed up quite clearly and the Left forgot that their “networks” including many in the MSM only represented a very small part of the voting public and on voting day it is not the network which has the majority on votes. I’m sure it would be similar elsewhere.
I’m sure the there are organised networks of those on the left who have designated people for key blogs which are against their beliefs in any way. (In some cases I would not be surprised to find out they are paid to do it). I have my doubts about how effective this aspect of their strategy is.
I think in the blog space the informal networking can be just as effective. People linking good articles between blogs they read spreads them around quickly and affectively. Also most of the time it is only articles worth reading that get spread around and you soon learn who to follow in terms of people linking those articles and those not to bother with.
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I think its effective and that’s why I like the thumbs down on my posts which are mostly from those in these networks. It effectively lets me know I’ve hit a nerve.
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“We are winning the debate on the science, but we need to win the social war too:”
Quite so.
Q: In a commentary you published in the journal nature climate change in 2014, you noted that since 1988, when climate scientist James Hansen presented the first testimony on human activity and planetary warming to the US Senate, the american public has been exposed to more than a quarter-century of sustained attention to this issue.
There have been hundreds of congressional hearings on it, thousands of peer-reviewed studies, and tens of thousands of media reports.
Does your research suggest that any of this has made a difference?
MULLIN: Yes, but perhaps not as much as some people might have hoped.
Those who hoped the long-running debate we’ve had on climate change would close the gap between the scientific consensus and the public’s divided beliefs are probably disappointed.
Duke University
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This intrusion of Western governments into society is wrong. Bullying? As old as time and intrinsic to every animal and society, if that is what you want to call it. So legislate against it and call the police? Is there anyone who has not been bullied, intimidated? So surgeons get to the top by competing academically, others on the sporting field, others in management and even comedians like tall John Cleese said he used comedy as a shield to bullying. Huge men say they were victims. For women, the bullying can be much more mental than physical. In the medical comedy Scrubs, the main actor is bullied by everyone, even the janitor who threatens him constantly.
However bullying is the flip side of victimology, so evident in the defence of the mass murder in Paris. Once you accept the argument, it is a licence to do terrible things ostensibly in the name of justice. No, you cannot stamp out intimidation and it is present in so many aspects of relationships, personal and professional and social. Each person has to learn their own way of dealing with it, but this idea that governments should intervene is a terrible threat to liberty.
Global Warming does not exist. You can tell you are winning the argument when warmists complain of bullying and call on governments to silence and imprison the bullies. Where were these calls when we were told that Global Warming was the greatest moral challenge of our generation? The greatest moral challenge is to call out United Nations lies without fear of retribution. Tony Abbott called Climate Change science crap and stopped the boat invasion and so as Lord Monckton openly warned, the UN through Foreign minister Julie Bishop and her friends had him removed without an election. Tony faced down bullies as he had always done. It is up to the Australian people and the National Party in particular to demand his return. On the front of the Australian today, Malcolm and friend Obama, plainly aligned with the most unpopular and science ignorant President in history. Whatever he says and an ETS.
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You are pushing brown goop uphill asking for Abbott’s return to PM. He was a disaster in the role. Get over it. Do you want to spend the next 40 years maintaining the rage like the ALP?
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Who said this? The media? No carbon tax, no ETS, Direct Action, boats stopped instantly, no mining tax all considering that not a mouse could get through the senate. So what’s to like with Malcolm, man of the people? His ethics? At least he gets on like a house on fire with Obama. Julia did too.
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Besides, if you accept that a simple vote in the Liberal party room is enough to change Australia’s Prime Minister, why not another vote? Especially if the National Party do not want Malcolm’s ETS on which he has based his political career. Malcolm will come home from Paris with an ETS.
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Hello Tdef.
No.
We in Australia do not need help from anyone anywhere in stuffing up a situation.
When the choice is Conspiracy or Stuff up then bet on the Stuff Up and you will collect many more times than not.
The Nervous Nellies in the Liberal party could not take the stress of poor opinion polling and folded like a deck of cards.
Unfortunately the polls, rather than The Conspiracy, seem to drive politics in Australia and The Polls were not helpful in any way to Mr Abbott.
I would have preferred that Mr Abbott go to the By Election in Cannington WA as leader but the Turnbull move came some 5 days prior to this By Election so we can only speculate.
The Liberal Party retained this seat with no real drama with Mr Turnbull as Leader of the Coalition.
I request people to tell me if there was a Rudd Conspiracy or a Gillard Conspiracy and given that Mr Shorten has polling figures nearly as low as Mr Abbott will there be a move against him and will it be a Conspiracy?
As for Mr Harper in Canada he was in Government for some 9/10 years and so it took “The Man’ that long to realise they had a Climate realist government in office?
If I need delusion and conspiracy I can go over to The Guardian and The Conversation and get in Spades and of gobsmackingly doozy composition. Let us leave it there.
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RobertB, I agree. I was overseas floating down the Volga near Stalingrad when the news swept the boat. A real hatchet job, a backroom putsch. The only ones against Abbott who had led his party to an overwhelming victory were the media and the nervous nellies and could have beens in the Liberal party, led predictably by the former head of the merchant bank Goldman Sachs.
A legend in his own lunchtime, the last thing the country needs is another vacillating do nothing rich lawyer who is BFF with the ABC, SBS, BOM and the Greens. We need someone who has donated months of his life to aboriginal welfare, rescued drowning swimmers in surf, led his team of bushfighters in real danger, ridden up black mountain faster than his guards and taken the global warming farce head on. Plus three degrees, two from Oxford and ran a concrete company. Deposed by his friends and we are supposed to say nothing? No one voted for rich banker Malcolm and I did not think the Liberal party would do such a thing and just to get into bed with the Green voters. We can only hope the Nationals stop being bridesmaids and force a rethink before the whole country is taxed by the UN and Goldman Sachs and we are told uncontrolled mass migration is good for the country.
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RobBob and TdeF
Thank you both for reinforcing the opinion I had of Tony Abbott.
A person you could understand. Our country was heading unmistakably in the direction approved of by voters.
Now this has changed, we have been disenfranchised.
The newspaper dramas and Liberal Parti dramas concocted by the drama enthusiasts all place Peta at the centre of a storm about which
very few can know the truth. An easy character assassination. It has the smack of manipulated gossip.
I look at Julie of the dark eye shadow with her boyfriend in the august u n building in New York. She’s where she planned to be
I look at GHunt, a lawyer in charge of the ripest plumb a lawyer could imagine The Official u n i p c c c c carbon exchange programme.
All of this manufactured by Malcolm of Sachs, a glib pastel of a human being intent on scooping up the ultimate prize for:
MALCOLM.
I grieve for the danger we are in and the LEADER we have lost.
For what??
KK
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KK I read an article by Daniel Pipes on why the recent attack in Paris will have limited impact, it sounded backwards until you apply the mindset of the same elites that have entrenched the CAGW myth in all society, when their crafted ideologies and hence power in the global sense is threatened these elites known as the 4 ‘P’s’ Political, Press, Police, Professors will move harder to the left in attempts to reinforce the doctrines imposed on the masses, conversely the masses when genuinely threatened will move harder to the right (conservatism) to protect what they realise can be lost.
Ultimately (hopefully) the larger portion of society will prevail in regaining control of the democratic process, I’m reminded of Rereke’s post and consider the majority have more skin in the game.
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RobertBobbert, I spoke to my MP yesterday. She voted for Abbott in the spill and she is a first time MP at the last election and, unlike so many of her backbench colleagues, was prepared to stick with our elected PM. When I said to her that if the coalition moved to the left under Lord Wentworth, I would not have a party to vote for. She said that she felt that there were enough conservatives left in the party to have an effect, when required, but said that she, too, would have ethical problems if the party became Labor Lite.
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Became Labor light? I think the horse has bolted on that aspect.
Still, it is nice to know that some MPs still make an effort to interact with the general public.
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I was going to describe my experiences over the last few years but discretion has got the better of me.
It seems that bullying is an epidemic for which there is no easy cure in an age when “social” media, politics
business, people seeking advancement in organisations and groups can gain so much so easily by the exercise of this abhorrent force.
Bullying sux.
KK
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Mixed message on weed-killer reflects reality of scientific uncertainty
LONDON, Nov 17 (Reuters) – Contradictory advice from two European-based agencies about the cancer risk posed by the weed-killer glyphosate offers clarity on only one message: that uncertainty is inherent in the scientific process.
Glyphosate – brought into use by Monsanto in the 1970s and used in its top-selling product Roundup – is “unlikely” to cause cancer according to the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA), yet “probably” does, according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).
Both are likely to be right, specialists say, but only in their own contexts. And for consumers, the key distinction to understand is the difference between hazard and risk.
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Hayek was all over it as usual. “The End of Truth” chapter in Road to Serfdom describes the techniques by which power corrupts truth. It is particularly effective when the message the power seeks to promote is supported by representatives from the so called “hard sciences”.
“It is not difficult to deprive the great majority of independent thought. But the minority who will retain an inclination to criticize must also be silenced” – F.A. Hayek, the Road to Serfdom
http://www.thegravelperspective.com/blog/2013/7/19/the-end-of-truth
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There you have it. We need to reverse this trend and start with what is being taught at schools and what the media publishes. The first brick that can be taken out of the wall if lies is to allow all information that might cause doubt or hesitation to be made freely available for discussion and debate, which is the opposite of what’s been happening with the catastrophic global warming hoax. Trouble is how do we remove that brick?
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PeterS ” we need to reverse this trend and start with what is being taught at schools” this part of your comment took me back to the Heartland institute debacle , it wasn’t their overall stance on global warming that got their opponents knickers in such a twist , it was more specifically because Heartland had a policy to try and make school education more neutral and balanced, hence why the Peter Glieck faked papers focused on Heartlands education programmes and why even the Koch brothers where vilified because they donated money to Heartland , not for global warming but for their education programme . The bullying and intimidation of Heartland ultimately failed because it only succeeded in raising their profile out of all proportion to the little known non profit that it was before the attacks .
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PeterS asks “…. how do we remove that brick?”
doubtingdave wants to start with schools but I disagree. In Australia, first off we need to clean out the left-wing infested ABC and give taxpayers the balance and information we are entitled to. Stop the bullying propaganda, political bias and blatant BS. De-radicalise the ABC.
It would then be easier to move onto the schools and universities.
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When I tried to find out what was stopping the Abbot lead government from doing just that I was told that the left had put in rules and structures to actually prevent that from happening. I would have thought that the government should have had the ultimate power over the ABC. If the left have restructured it to be only a leftie mouthpiece then we will have to demand it be totally defunded. Give them a choice of defunding or balance. Give them just two days to start the changes or the defunding starts within hours. Speed across the ice is what is needed here.
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Any chance that you could get your source to verify that Rn? Sounds like something Gillard would do. Have done a quick Google already but couldn’t find anything and you would have to be legally trained to make sense of the ABC charter.
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We’ve been trying to do that with the CBC for literally decades….no sign of success there yet.
00
Thats such a relevant quote Peter because AGW doctrinal submission is so often related to “good moral values”.
https://www.themonthly.com.au/today/sean-kelly/2015/19/2015/1434694649/greatest-moral-challenge-our-time
Emotion is so relevant you have The Pope copying Kevin Rudd.
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Emotion is so relevant you have The Pope copying Kevin Rudd.
20
There are bullies in all walks of life,
Even some with a surgical knife,
While the everyday use,
Of insults and abuse,
By warmists of skeptics is rife.
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I can’t say it better than that Riari.
Doubtless there are bullying surgeons. I have met some of them. However surgeons are not unique in that respect.
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Maybe it’s just time to go pro-active with a new anonymous website.
http://rateyoursurgeon.com – it’s available.
30
Surgeons don’t bully their patients – they bully nurses, registrars – anyone who they believe is not their equal.
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They bully their patients too. In my Mom’s case it was the cause of her death.
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Yes Gai, they do.
I have at many times been bullied by doctors into unnecessary procedures. Especially pathology. Straightjacketted group-think actually prevents the doctors from curing people, that and insurance premiums. At the risk of generalising, dentists are particular bullies.
Once I was told that the doctor knew better than me about my health, I soon set him straight as to who’s body it was, and who was the servant and who was the employer!
50
I believe that this is on topic, “makes a change for me”. Yesterday at Climate Change Dispatch, I read a piece on Californian 6th grade science books not being alarmist enough. Stating that 6th grade text’s maintain that Climate Science is a matter of opinion.
The educators complain:
I’m no scholar but this regulation of thinking and selected reading seemed only too familiar, even the 97% belief is not new.
Regardless of being aware that to mention Hitler is to lose the argument, two minutes on the net looking at the Hitler youth these similarities are striking.
I’m not the first to state this but the education system is the first weapon of tyrants. I guess we are the so-called inferior peoples and parasitic “bastard races” incapable of creating culture or civilization.
All we need is to be introduced to new textbooks that teach students love for the planet, obedience to state authority, militarism, and anti scepticism”.
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They really need to teach statistics as well since the answer is do dependent on how you ask the question. I’m among the 97% who believes that CO2 has a finite effect on the surface temperature. If instead, the question was ‘Do you think CO2 is the primary cause of climate change’, the number would be much lower and if those scientists affiliated with the IPCC are excluded due to the inherent conflict of interest (the IPCC needs CAGW to justify its existence), the number would be significantly lower.
The one thing that no warmist seems to understand is that the debate is not about whether or not there is any effect, but its about the size of the effect and that the IPCC has systematically over-estimated the size in order to support its otherwise unsupportable agendas.
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It is already happening. Actually it has been happening since 1896 when John Dewey started experimenting on little tykes in Chicago to determine how to turn everyone into little collectivists. www(DOT)ordination.org/dumbing_down.htm
For the current activities ,look at Robin’s site Invisible Serfs Collar about Common Core.
Here are a few I bookmarked:
Destroying the Dominant Social Paradigm Via Education for 21st Century Political Power and Personal Gain
……………..
Collecting Student Data to Practice PsychoPolitics on a Massive but Invisible Scale without Consent
……………..
Rapprochemont or Civilization Surrender? How to Force Global Solidarity Starting with Preschool Education
40
Whilst i type this comment i’m at work on the railways in my signal box on a night shift and its blowing a gale . Due to the ground being saturated several tree’s have come down on roads , powerlines and the track , blocking the line and causing major disruption of our services, i’ve not had a train to signal yet ! I have the radio tuned to the BBC and a female reporter is blaming “Storm Barney ” yes thats correct , not hurricane or even superstorm, just plain ordinary ” Storm Barney ” Wooooo . Anyway if your caught up in it in someway please have a safe journey home and i hope your power is on when you get there, and expect ,shortly no doubt , to see Lord Deben or julia Slingo put it down to an act of Gaia on human induced steroids.
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Here is one that will cause Tony to spill his coffee and I’m sure there was lots of bullying going on behind the scenes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/12001752/UK-coal-plants-must-close-by-2025-Amber-Rudd-to-announce.html
I think the UK have lost the plot. Only days ago they had a “knife edge” energy supply situation with spot prices going to 2500 pnds/kwh and now they are talking of closing 29% of their supply. Where will the gas come from to replace the coal ? Russia ?
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A friend of mine was told by a Sydney surgeon that his prostate PSA reading was 9. He gave hime 6 months to live. The surgeon’s solution was a full operation where all his genitals and some lymph nodes would be removed. Cost $32,000.
Fortunately he had a friend who was into all of this and they flew to NY where 2 surgeons, yes they got a second opinion, told him his PSA was 5. They then sent him to Germany where he had 2 x 3 hour Radio Frequency treatments. A week later he was declared 98% cancer free and all his parts are in full working order. Cost $11,000
He now lives in NY and 60 minutes visited him and interviewed him on the whole story. Everything was moving forward then suddenly all communication with 60 mins stopped and the program never went to air.
110
This new book by Nils-Axel MÖRNER looks interesting.
Review by Willie Soon.
http://www.principia-scientific.org/planetary-influence-on-the-sun-and-the-earth-and-a-modern-book-burning.html
80
It looks interesting but I might wait a bit to see if the price drops to an affordable level.
10
there’s some bullying of the French Govt going on:
17 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Alex Pashley: Organisers committed to Paris climate march despite attacks
UPDATED: French government set to rule whether 29 November demo can go ahead by Thursday, say organisers
A coalition of 130 groups including Avaaz and 350.org said on Monday evening they would “implement all our efforts to hold all the mobilizations current planned”.
That is at odds with France’s prime minister Manuel Valls’ remarks that events outside the core negotiations would “undoubtedly be cancelled”…
Activists met on Tuesday with foreign minister and chair of the ‘COP21’ event, Laurent Fabius, to convince the government to let the march continue.
Fabius said he understood calls to not to be silenced by Islamic extremists, but the government had to guarantee the safety of participants, said Alix Mazounie, a campaigner at RAC-France, after the meeting.
“The most important thing is what the prime minister says. Those decisions will be made tomorrow or Thursday,” she told Climate Home by phone…
Nicolas Haeringer, a campaigner at 350.org, said: “The tragedy in Paris has only strengthened our resolve.
“We can think of few better responses to violence and terror than this movement’s push for peace and hope.”…
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/11/17/organisers-committed-to-paris-climate-march-despite-attacks/
18 Nov: AFR: Henry Chu, LA Times: Paris steps up security for UN climate change conference
Officials announced Tuesday that 115,000 police officers, gendarmes and soldiers would be deployed across the country. Thousands of troops have descended on the capital; men in combat fatigues, toting automatic weapons, are a common sight at train stations, bustling squares and landmarks such as the Eiffel Tower…
Juliette Rousseau, a spokeswoman for the Climat 21 coalition of environmental and social-justice groups, said her organisation had been working with the government for more than a year on security arrangements. She and other activists were blindsided by Valls’ statement this week that some events surrounding the climate summit, including the November 29 march, might have to be cancelled.
Though public protests are technically forbidden under the state of emergency, trying to shut down the march and other activities would be unacceptable, Rousseau said…
“They knew that the situation was risky and were working in that context,” Rousseau said, and Climat 21 is “ready to work even more with the government to make sure our mobilisation is safe. But we can’t accept an argument that basically tells us we shouldn’t go on the street anymore.”…
http://www.afr.com/news/world/paris-steps-up-security-for-un-climate-change-conference-20151118-gl1mcu
71
“We can think of few better responses to violence and terror than this movement’s push for peace and hope.”…
350.org “We’re building a global climate movement”. This is not a “push for peace and hope.” This is intimidation by true believers in the Global Warming faith, an utterly selfish world movement dedicated to depriving all developing countries of any energy and so any hope or quality of life.
50
17 Nov: Rolling Stone: Tessa Stuart: Activists, Officials Disagree Over Future of Massive Paris Climate March
The French prime minister says the demonstrations are off, while organizers say they will go ahead as planned
“COP21 can not take place without the participation or without the mobilizations of civil society in France,” Coalition Climat 21, the umbrella organization for more than 130 groups planning to participate in the protests, said in a statement Monday.
In a radio interview earlier that day, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls asserted that the talks not only can go on without protest activity – they will. “A series of demonstrations planned will not take place and it will be reduced to the negotiations,” Valls said. “A lot of concerts and festivities will be canceled.”…
Jamie Henn, communications director for 350.org, told Rolling Stone via email Tuesday, “Our staff and allies in Paris are still meeting with the French authorities to determine what large scale demonstrations we can pull off. We fully support the French government’s focus on a safety–just as we oppose any unnecessary crackdowns on civil liberties and minority communities.”
The long-planned climate march…will go ahead as planned, Henn said…
Pathway to Paris, a concert 350.org is helping organize, featuring Thom Yorke, Patti Smith and Flea, as well as activists like Bill McKibben, Naomi Klein and Vandana Shiva, is also expected to take place as planned, on December 4 and 5.
“We feel the urgency to come together and build a global movement for climate justice, recognizing that climate change and its challenges interconnects us all,”Pathway to Paris co-founder Rebecca Foon said in an email.
One activist told The Guardian after meeting with the French foreign minister Monday that a scaled-down rally in the Paris suburbs “would not be acceptable.”…
Alice Jay, campaign director for Avaaz, says the details are still being worked out after the meeting. “We reaffirmed our commitment to doing all we can to ensure that Paris will join cities around the world in hosting a safe, inspiring and open march on November 29th, and will be discussing possibilities with the authorities over the coming days,” she tells Rolling Stone…
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/activists-officials-disagree-over-future-of-massive-paris-climate-march-20151117
51
Great. We have paid a lot of money to get here. Our intimidation is not going to be stopped by their intimidation! Irony.
30
plebiscite not referendum. I wonder which “side” of the debate you are on?
16
I’m on the side of full and open debate before a plebiscite (or an election), even to the level of Switzerland
So which side are you on ? [Golly and gee, I wonder]
70
I’m a conservative.
011
thanks RB for telling me what I am and then writing 2 completely unsupported paragraphs. Has anyone ever taken your bait or do they just back away while you sway on the spot?
10
KK… what is GD?
00
Gee Aye:
While I do oppose gay “marriage”, that was not the point of my posting.
My point was that in our current political environment, the discourse on most topics is defined by a very small group of very vocal and unforgiving activists. These activists have succeeded to reducing any debate, whether it be gay “marriage”, climate change, or illegal immigration, to a mere echo chamber of their own views. Dissenting views are not only not tolerated, but their proponents are subject to personal attack.
In the case of the gay “marriage” issue, debate has been silenced. Anyone who expresses a view contrary to that of the gay fascists stands to pay a very heavy price; ie: jobs have been lost; careers have been ruined; etc.
So in the lead up to the plebiscite, there will be virtually no debate. While this is an issue that has relevance to the very foundation of our society and culture, only one side of the issue will be presented. There are very valid reasons to oppose gay “marriage” but these will not be heard.
As the Catholic Church has discovered, it is very costly to vocalize any of those reasons.
But even worse, this fascist suppression of freedom of speech and thought is pervading our entire society.
30
Fairfax happy with this US bullying!
18 Nov: SMH: Adam Morton: Australia backs down on coal stand-off
Australia has backed down from a climate change stand-off with the US and Japan, agreeing to a deal to cut funding for dirty coal-fired electricity by billions of dollars a year.
The agreement, backed by 34 wealthy countries, is expected to give a boost to the United Nations climate summit starting in Paris in 12 days.
The compromise deal was reached at a meeting of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in the terror-ravaged French capital overnight on Tuesday…
A senior White House administration official: “And if you look at the forward pipeline of coal plants on the drawing board today globally, we estimate that this agreement will render more than 85 per cent of those plants ineligible.”…
Leaked documents seen by Fairfax Media last week showed Australia had opposed a US-Japan deal that effectively would have limited public financing of coal plants by OECD countries to only the “cleanest” available – mostly those classed as “ultra-supercritical” generators…
The US official said under the compromise deal large plants can be funded only if they were ultra-supercritical – that is, if they have the latest technology and the lowest emissions possible…
***The deal includes an Australian proposal that eight countries in which fewer than 90 per cent of people have access to electricity still be allowed to build older coal technology if cleaner alternatives were not available.
The US official said it did not consider this clause significant, estimating it would affect less than 1 per cent of planned coal plants…
***Based on Australian Treasury modelling, it is likely Australia’s coal exports will fare better than those from competitor countries as the market tightens…
Japan backed the deal despite being responsible for more than half of OECD export credit financing of coal. South Korea had also opposed the US-Japan deal, but agreed to the compromise.
The deal covers coal plants funded by public export credit agencies only.
***Australia’s export credit agency, the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation, does not fund coal…
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-backs-down-on-coal-standoff-20151118-gl1ng5.html
21
Note here how this is the Country which has electrical power generation supply which covers every sector of consumption, and at every level, and yet, here they are now saying that 85% of all forward planned new coal fired power plants should be ineligible. In other words, they are seeking to deny those Countries the ability to actually develop.
If you seriously think that the Paris COP21 Conference will come out with a statement which outright bans those 85% of coal fired plants from being constructed, then you have green rocks in your head.
Those Countries WILL NOT even blink, totally ignoring any statement like this, and seriously, if (and that’s a bl00dy big if) the UN does come out with such a statement, and those Countries do ignore it, what can they do about it?
Those planned coal fired plants will go ahead no matter what, and each one will have a long life, probably out to at least 40/50 years.
The UN will be absolutely toothless. It won’t ban these plants, and it won’t do anything to the Countries which construct them, and if the truth is to be told, I’m willing to say that no such statement will even get a mention in the washup of what will be agreed to, post Conference.
The White House can say what it likes here. These Countries will turn up at Paris, will agree to anything, because after all, the money from the 23 Annexe II Countries will all flow to them anyway, and then they’ll just go back home, accept all the money as it flows in, and still build those new coal fired power plants.
Also note specifically here that it will only view favourably those USC (UltraSuperCritical) plants.
What the!
It’s okay for those plants to be constructed in Developing Countries, but not in already Developed Countries like here in Australia.
Tony.
81
Absolute madness.
10
Turnbull and Robb give US corporations the right to sue Australia
10-6-2015 Malcolm Turnbull and Andrew Robb have done what John Howard and Mark Vaile refused to do: Via the TPP they have granted US corporations to the right to sue the Australian government over making laws in the public interest.
“The United States pushed hard for the inclusion of Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) provisions in the 2004 US Free Trade Agreement but then Australia refused.
Trade Minister Vaille said at the time, “If we had that mechanism in there, it would enable foreign direct investors—if they were aggrieved about a decision taken by a local government body or a state government—to seek a remedy extraterritorially. We do not believe that is necessary in an agreement between two highly developed economies with very transparent legal systems that provide the opportunity for remedy within the state where the dispute may exist…”
Senator Whish-Wilson continued, “United States corporations are the most avid user of ISDS and have brought forward at least 127 cases so far.
“The majority of ISDS cases are either won by the corporation or settled at great expense to the country being sued. Most ISDS cases from the US have involved disputes being brought by energy, mining, oil and gas companies.
http://greensmps.org.au/content/media-releases/turnbull-and-robb-give-us-corporations-right-sue-australia
00
So Julie Bishop and Malcolm Turnbull in lockstep with the UN and Obama and the regressive Greens. Quelle surprise! Even better, now Turnbull and Obama want to reward ISIL with their own state. Whatever he says.
30
Its already started. We have not even got to the meeting yet and Turnbull is giving away our sovereignty as fast as he can manage.
As I have said all along, Turnbull will leave Paris as the “world leader” on AGW action. Its his destiny.
30
It’s not as if Turnbull has not told his party plainly about his ETS plans or recanted. It is why he lost the leadership in the first place and why Abbott was elected. Now Turnbull is back, but a promise has been made to the Nationals. Something credible like “there will be no carbon tax in a government I lead”. No one should be surprised. This is a betrayal of coalition voters and a first for the Liberal party, if you exclude Gorton’s resignation.
20
Trudeau in Canada also!
00
18 Nov: Livemint: Mayank Aggarwal: Govt to relax green rules to speed up coal mining
Centre proposes projects can go ahead even if final clearance for forest area has not been accorded
New Delhi: The environment ministry is diluting its rules governing coal mining projects located on lands adjoining forests in a move that’s likely to run into resistance from green activists…
The move by the Prakash Javadekar-led Union ministry of environment, forests and climate change (MoEFCC) is an effort to boost coal production by reducing red tape…
India plans to mine 1.5 billion tonnes of coal by 2020. Of this, 1 billion tonnes is from Coal India Ltd and 500 million tonnes from other sources. The fuel will play an important part, given that around 280 million Indians still do not have access to electricity.
A senior environment ministry official, who did not wish to be identified, said, “the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) is in the loop regarding the whole issue”…
http://www.livemint.com/Industry/5txwvcJeEHph3N5hQucsgK/Govt-to-relax-green-rules-to-speed-up-coal-mining.html
41
That surgeons can be arrogant, domineering and bullying, is such a commonplace of life that it’s been a television trope, in shows such as “Doctor in the House” for decades. My niece’s medical experience has confirmed the reality of the problem, and confirmed that sexism still accompanies the role today.
I affirm that this is unconscionable behavior; yet I do wonder whether the members of the profession, one and all, are suffering post traumatic stress disorder. I know I would if I encountered the bleeding mangled bodies they deal with; or the pulsating innards they see.
50
I have a theory about bullying, something most commonly used at internet sites.
Have you noticed that the ‘way’ that green sympathisers use scorn, derision, and ad hominem replies in the comments they make, not just here, but virtually everywhere.
In my mind, that’s a form of bullying, shouting down. Anyone who does voice a contrary opinion to what is now the ‘accepted‘ norm when it comes to this now closed debate, as they say, then they become targets for that scorn and derision.
In my opinion, that effectively makes people question whether they should even voice an opinion in the first place, or having voiced that opinion, and become the subject of that reply of scorn and derision, they stop commenting altogether.
It even happens to some who know their facts, are confident with what they say, and keep commenting.
It seems to me that those true believers see this as possibly a threat, you know, that just perhaps they might even be correct, so they come in with their scorn and derision, hoping to drive them off.
They can hide behind a made up screen name, because the only person who knows about them is the owner of the site, due to the demand of a valid email to be able to submit a comment.
That, to me, can also be defined as bullying.
Tony.
70
Hi Tony,
My experience was in many respects similar to that which you describe.
I certainly felt someone could not possibly be so rude unless they were also right, or at least had such good grounds to think they were that they felt an obligation to oppose the idiocy expressed against them.
Nevertheless despite attempted ridicule and expressed contempt, I stood my ground against a wanna-be Internet bully. To my astonishment they were profoundly ignorant of the subject they were so vociferous about. I learnt that each time they misstated my claims, I need merely ask them to quote where I said what they claimed. Sticking to facts, asking for evidence, explaining why their evidence did not prove what they thought it did, did not persuade them, of course. But it did lay out to other readers who could discuss the topic rationally, who had the facts and evidence, and that the believer had the mentality of a middle-school bully. So I’m pleased about that. I’m glad I’ve joined those readers of Jo’s blog who stand up and speak up for science. And it turns out to be fun, too.
20
When you go through secondary school, the really smart people GENERALLY do law or medicine.
In my very long life time in this country, the medical profession has been impressive and has continued to improve and strive for perfection. The legal profession has been pathetic, regressive and really makes you wonder how smart minds can be so sick – and perpetuate the sickness of society.
70
It’s about POWER
Most people imagine that science per se (not the climate variety) is at odds with religion
NO – it’s at odds with the law. It just so happened that when the confrontation became apparent, religion was the law
I’ve been involved at a professional level in five (5) Commission of Inquiries into multiple-death industrial catastrophes. My viewpoint was to try as hard as I may to find out what actually happened so then we could prevent it from happening again
The lawyers (and there were bucketloads of them) were extremely impatient and rude about this approach. They just wanted to find someone, anyone would do, to blame. One well-known QC even blustered at me: “Your problem is that you think there is such a thing as truth !”. When I pointed out that his standpoint made a total nonsense of the perjury laws, his head blew off 🙂 🙂
60
They can bully this ….CAGW = BS !
https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=597&h=279
41
3,000 journalist were reportedly attending:
17 Nov: Politico: Sara Stefanini: UN rejects over 1,000 journalists as COP21 security is tightened
The COP21 climate summit organizers have turned away more than 1,000 journalists because of tougher security following last week’s terrorist attacks in Paris.
“We had hoped to have some flexibility regarding increased media accreditation for COP21; however, due to overwhelming demand and now facing tighter security in light of recent events, we are sorry to inform you that your application has been declined,” the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change’s press office said in an e-mail sent to journalists today.
It also advises reporters not to visit the Le Bourget conference center, in northeast Paris, unless they are accredited…
http://www.politico.eu/pro/un-rejects-over-1000-journalists-as-cop21-security-is-tightened/
31
***talk about elitist green groups!
17 Nov: Guardian: Rowena Mason: Energy policy shift will put tackling climate change on backburner
The energy secretary, Amber Rudd, is to “reset” Britain’s energy policy on Wednesday in a direction that downgrades tackling climate change from its highest priorities but commits to closing all traditional coal-fired plants by 2025.
In her biggest speech in the job, Rudd will say she wants policy to focus on making energy affordable and secure. She will say the aim is a “consumer-led, competition-focused energy system that has energy security at the heart of it”, and will suggest the balance has swung too far in favour of climate change policies at the expense of keeping energy affordable.
***Green campaigners are likely to be somewhat mollified by the fact she is likely to pledge to restrict coal-fired power by 2023 and all but eradicate it within the decade…
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/18/energy-policy-shift-climate-change-amber-rudd-backburner
re BBC below: those who favour nuclear won’t appreciate my position, but I find the nuclear plans to be more perverse than coal, if such language is appropriate, yet none of the “environmental” groups quoted say a word against it! lol. as for needing to transform the energy grid due to CAGW…pull the other one:
17 Nov: BBC: UK’s coal plants ‘to be phased out within 10 years’
Unveiling the government’s new energy strategy, Ms Rudd will say that relying on “polluting” coal is “perverse”…
Currently, coal provides almost a third (28%) of the UK’s electricity, but Ms Rudd will say that relying on the “ageing, often unreliable” plants “cannot be satisfactory for an advanced economy like the UK”…
Ms Rudd is also expected to say investment in nuclear power is “central” to the government’s policy…
“Opponents of nuclear misread the science. It is safe and reliable,” Ms Rudd will say…
Concerns have also been raised about the costs to consumers of transforming the energy system to help tackle climate change…
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34851718
31
It’s a good idea to correct bullies, but frequently necessary to knock their blocks off.
Whatever Trump is good for, he does not retreat and apologise without very good reason…and even then he doesn’t. If Tony Abbott – who was bullied outrageously – had been willing to say something like: “I ate an onion, I winked, I looked at my watch, I’ll do it all again, and the ABC and the shrieking harpies of the New Class can go to buggery”, he would have appalled all the people who were already appalled, but he would have won the hearts of millions just waiting to see an end to PC. Don’t complain of being bullied or subjected to bias. The bullies don’t care. Hit them where they hurt: their precious PC.
You cannot out-complain the complaining classes, they are experts. You can’t plead against the Herd of Independent Minds, their whole tactic is to stay loud and in chorus. You can only defy, in the knowledge that there really is a silent minority who will get behind you. PC is over, it is a fragile relic. It looks huge and unbeatable right now…but just blow on it and it will fall over.
130
Mosomoso
Thanks, that cheered me up no end.
🙂 KK
There is hope; we all need hope.
30
Actually he did all that. Ignored them utterly and stopped the expanding UN drip feed from the Australian economy. That’s why he had to go. Publicly hating Abbott became a media pastime and he ignored the violent riot at the Aboriginal embassy on Australia day, organized from the outset by Julia’s staff in concert with the ABC. All it needs is a vote in the party room and we get our elected PM back. His removal was testimony to the unfettered power of the Green/Left media under BFF Communications minister Malcolm Turnbull.
50
Darn right!
As a 10 year old I finally took down my bully of a brother (age 18). He was six ft six and over triple my weight. That was the last time he laid a hand on me.
Most bullies are cowards and will back down fast if you go for the throat. They do not expect it. You just have to be sneaky and catch them unaware.
(I am female BTW)
70
Political Correctness = Appeasement
http://www.quotehd.com/imagequotes/authors1/winston-churchill-statesman-an-appeaser-is-one-who-feeds-a-crocodile.jpg
We are already a nation of Whimps , and ‘turn the other cheekers’……Whooops ,better not hurt anybody’s feelings !
To the ‘Political Correct’ and ‘Outrage Police’…… Heyah >> https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/562828409232171009/WW3H2bwX_400x400.jpeg
10
18 Nov: ABC: Matt Brann: Future looking bright for Indigenous carbon farming project after successful bid in carbon auction
The future for one of the Northern Territory’s longest running carbon farming projects is looking bright, after it secured funding for the next five years through the Federal Government’s Emissions Reduction Fund…
ILC’s (Indigenous Land Corporation) manager of environment, carbon and heritage, Emma Pethybridge, said the Fish River project was successful in the Government’s latest Emissions Reduction Fund auction.
She said the project was now contracted to deliver 115,000 tonnes of carbon abatement for five years, for a price per tonne which could not be disclosed because of commercial reasons…
Fish River station was not the only savanna burning carbon farming project to receive funding in the latest carbon auction, with contracts also going to the long running West Arnhem fire abatement project, a group of 21 graziers in the Cape York region were successful, as was the fire management project on Conways Station in the Northern Territory…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-18/bright-future-for-indigenous-carbon-farming-project/6948202
Emma’s quotes in the above were so bureaucratic, I decided to look up her history:
LinkedIn: Emma Pethybridge
https://au.linkedin.com/in/emmapethybridge
61
‘According to the Federal Government fires across northern Australia produce around 3 per cent of the nation’s greenhouse gas emissions, but in places like the Northern Territory, they account for approximately 40 per cent of the Northern Territory’s total emission profile.’
ABC
10
Well done Tony Abbott.
This is money that is NOT going to New York.
KK
20
18 Nov: Australian: Sid Maher: Greg Hunt to tell climate summit 2020 carbon goal has been met
Australia will reveal at the Paris climate change conference that it has met its 2020 emissions reduction target and it is open to reviewing its 2030 commitment in five years in the event of an agreement for deeper global emissions cuts.
Environment Minister Greg Hunt has told The Australian that he expects new calculations of Australia’s cumulative emissions reduction task to 2020 to be “below zero’’ when they are revealed ahead of the Paris conference…
But the government has built in a 2017 review mechanism of its Direct Action policy, which will give it the ability to sweeten its emissions reduction offer in 2020 in the event of deeper global action on climate change.
Mr Hunt said Australia’s decision to lay on the table the fact that it would be comfortable with a 2020 review of its target had seen its applauded at pre-conference meetings. The 2017 review is expected to pave the way for the government to buy a strategic reserve of ***international carbon credits, which could allow it to deepen its pledge after 2020.
Companies would also likely be allowed to use ***international permits to comply with their emissions baselines under the government’s safeguards mechanism…
“The whole system was designed so we could adapt to the fact that we would probably require us to make new pledges in 2020, 2025 and 2030,’’ Mr Hunt said. “I think what we are likely to do is move into a five-year cycle where there are incremental improvements.’’…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/greg-hunt-to-tell-climate-summit-2020-carbon-goal-has-been-met/story-e6frg6xf-1227612978015?sv=bd8f7a649a2189c57fd658c32cde3fdf
18 Nov: CNBC: Luke Graham: Insurers and investors will be affected by climate change
The insurance industry has been highlighted as being vulnerable to climate change by a new report released by Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services.
The report, published this week, argues that changes brought about by climate change, such as higher capital requirements and an increase in weather-related claims, will negatively affect insurers’ capital positions
According to the report, insurers’ capital adequacy (their capital-to-risk ratio) will decline by 0.5 percent a year over the period of 2016 to 2050. To compensate for this shortfall, many insurers may have to cut their dividend payments to shareholders by 5 to 10 percent…
The report’s analysis echoes warnings made by Bank of England governor Mark Carney in September about the effect climate change will have on the insurance industry…
Meanwhile, a recent report from asset management firm BlackRock examined the impact of climate change on investment portfolios…
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/18/insurers-and-investors-will-be-affected-by-climate-change.html
21
***irrelevant if the rules do nothing to slow climate change!
17 Nov: WSJ: Amy Harder: Senate Challenges Obama Carbon Rules in Symbolic Votes
Chamber passes measures blocking EPA rules on power plants, but president has vowed to veto them
The Senate voted Tuesday to strike down regulations aimed at cutting carbon emissions from power plants, the first congressional action against President Barack Obama’s climate-change agenda…
Citing the rules’ importance to public health and climate change, the White House said Tuesday that Mr. Obama would veto the measures should they reach his desk. Congress likely doesn’t have the votes to override such a veto.
Congressional Republicans nonetheless hope to send a symbolic message sowing doubt among other nations that Mr. Obama will be able to take decisive steps to address the issue of climate change…
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.) and other lawmakers from coal-dependent states argued that the EPA rules are killing U.S. jobs without any sizable impact on climate change. “Their effect on global carbon levels? Essentially a rounding error,” Mr. McConnell said Tuesday. “Their effect on poor and middle-class families? Potentially devastating.”…
***Mr. Obama says that even if the regulations by themselves won’t slow climate change, they show U.S. leadership on the global stage…
http://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-challenges-obama-carbon-rules-in-symbolic-votes-1447807654
21
***thou must buy new planes!
17 Nov: Financial Times: Tanya Powley: British Airways and Lufthansa carbon emissions in spotlight
British Airways and Lufthansa have been identified as among the least fuel-efficient airlines flying on transatlantic routes, according to research by the group that helped expose the Volkswagen emissions scandal.
The two carriers, alongside Scandinavian airline SAS, were at the bottom of a table ranking the top 20 transatlantic airlines in 2014 for their carbon footprint compiled by the International Council on Clean Transportation, the independent environmental research group…
The research comes just weeks before world leaders are due to meet in Paris to agree binding limits on greenhouse gas emissions.
It will also put increasing pressure on airlines to finalise a deal to reduce passenger jet pollution…
***BA said its carbon performance continues to improve with the introduction of new, more fuel-efficient aircraft…
Commercial aircraft produced about 700m metric tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2013. If the industry was a country, this would rank it as seventh in terms of carbon emissions, according to ICCT…
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/e025511a-8d15-11e5-8be4-3506bf20cc2b.html
31
Wouldn’t it be interesting to see an analysis of the travel to Paris of the COP21 delegates? Analyse by airline, aircraft type, class travelled in and mode of transport to and from hotels, etcetera.
50
The event is to be held at Le Bourget, just outside central Paris. it is well connected to bus, and train lines, and indeed, I use that same train line to go to/from work every day. I am not looking forward to this conference, as the trains will be packed with people who won’t be able to drive (as lots of roads will be blocked off so the delegates won’t have to sully their eyes with views of ‘the great unwashed’ as they transit between hotels and the conference). I certainly can’t imagine someone like Christina Figueres would want to “help the environment” by using public transport…
Le Bourget is also lacking large numbers of hotels, so no doubt the various self-important morass will have to stay in large hotels all around Paris, racking up who knows how many kilometres of (most likely) diesel powered travel. If only we could generate electricity from self-importance and sanctimony, then the IPCC and UN may actually be useful for something.
40
18 Nov: BBC: Where are all the climate change songs?
Musicians have written exhilarating protest songs about everything from civil rights to apartheid. Yet no-one’s managed a popular song about what’s meant to be the most important issue of our time. Music writer Alex Marshall asks why.
We won’t actually get a stream of good climate change songs until it starts “affecting people when they get up in the morning and people’s relatives start dying from it,” (Orbital’s Paul) Hartnoll suggests.
“The one good thing is songwriters aren’t the ones who are meant to be saving the world are they? I know many try, and valiantly, but it’s the politicians who’ve got to do something. Let’s hope they get on with it.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34844244
???
17 Nov:Royal Society of Chemistry: Rebecca Trager: Carbon dioxide leak at US coffee plant prompts federal probe
A US federal investigation has been launched after a carbon dioxide leak at a coffee roasting and decaffeination plant in Houston, Texas, led to the death of one employee. The incident occurred at Atlantic Coffee Solutions on 12 November.
‘The decaffeination process uses [supercritical] carbon dioxide, and when there is a leak it creates an oxygen-deficient environment,’ explains Ruy Lozano, a spokesman for Houston fire department…
‘We are not sure how the leak occurred,’ Lozano stated, noting that the US Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) is investigating the accident. The agency has up to six months to complete the review and decide on any necessary citations and penalties.
The US Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board (CSB), which is the independent agency charged with examining serious industrial chemical accidents in the US, will not be investigating the Atlantic Coffee Solutions incident…
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2015/11/fatal-carbon-dioxide-leak-us-coffee-decaffeination-investigation
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shame on them all:
16 Nov: Guardian: Press Association: Coal is not the solution to energy poverty, warn aid agencies
Clean energy is preferable to coal-focussed policies which could leave a billion people still without electricity, analysis suggests
Analysis by Cafod, Christian Aid and thinktank the Overseas Development Institute (ODI) suggests that continuing with current energy policies that focus heavily on coal, risks leaving a billion people without access to electricity and three billion without access to clean cooking facilities by 2030.
The analysis comes as a new report suggests consumption of coal for power is likely to have peaked in 2013 and is set to decline by between 2% and 4% in 2015.
The report by the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis (IEEFA) said “peak global coal” had occurred as a result of declining consumption by big coal-using countries, particularly China…
Alison Doig, senior adviser on climate change at Christian Aid, said: “There’s very little evidence to suggest that coal has a role to play in poverty alleviation…
“From Bangladesh to Indonesia and South Africa, there are clear opportunities to deploy clean energy systems and to ***leapfrog dirty coal development.”…
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/16/coal-not-solution-energy-poverty-warn-aid-agencies
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Just a quick one…
Where’s is the 40+ degree heat wave that is suppose to hit by the end of this week?
Remember? It was hyped up all last weekend.
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The Daily Mail was hyping up the possibility of 39C in Sydney tomorrow…saying it could be the hottest day in November for 150 years! So not ‘unprecedented’ then? 🙂
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Here’s to the Paris Pre-Enlightenment Hajj >>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/562828409232171009/WW3H2bwX_400x400.jpeg
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You are fantastic, Joanne–keep up the good fight. Sad that standing for scientific truth requires so much courage and conviction.
Huge fan from Wisconsin, USA
[Shucks GD. :- ) Thank you. Jo
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O/T but here is a chance for FIN and his mates to payoff their student loans ( or if I’ve got it wrong their mortgage)
http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2015/11/18/a-100000-climate-prize.html
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Perhaps a little bit off-topic, but I just read the following news via France24:
“…More on France’s decision to ban demonstrations at the upcoming COP21 climate talks in Paris. “In order to avoid additional risks, the government has decided not to authorise climate marches planned in public places in Paris and other French cities on Nov. 29 and Dec. 12,” a government statement said.
Environmental groups, who had been planning the marches for months, said they may shift their focus now to mobilising marches in other cities around the world, Reuters reports.
“The government can prohibit these demonstrations, but it cannot stop the mobilisation and it won’t prevent us strengthening the climate movement. Our voices will not be silenced,” French campaigner Nicolas Haeringer with 350.org group said in a statement.
French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said on Monday that no foreign leaders had asked France to postpone the COP 21 summit, a move he said would amount to “abdicating to the terrorists”…”
Yeah, that’s right, the government is prohibiting demonstrations because they are “climate” demonstrations…nothing whatsoever to do with the events of the last week, and the myriad of security concerns which must be keeping the various police and military planners up at night… I’m disgusted by the wording used by the 350.org representative.
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Perhaps that disgusting mob should be told that if they go ahead the French security forces will not be available to protect them from terrorist activity as they have higher priorities to meet.
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One could probably come up with some arguments to support the opinion that 350.org closely resembles a terrorist organisation…
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Indeed.
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James Murphy beat me to it, but here’s a link:
so many Reuters’ staff to write nine tiny paragraphs!
18 Nov: Reuters: UPDATE 1-France bans massive marches planned during Paris climate talks
(Reporting by Emmanuel Jarry, Additional reporting by Valerie Volcovici; Writing by Leigh Thomas; Editing by Gareth Jones; Editing by Tom Heneghan)
Nov 18 France will not allow planned marches to go ahead on Nov. 29 and Dec. 12 during international climate talks in Paris because of security concerns, the government said on Wednesday.
However, it said in a statement that all demonstrations organised in closed spaces or in places where security can easily be ensured would be allowed to go ahead…
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/18/france-shooting-climatechange-idUKL8N13D4S120151118
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***the “climate activists” are so much part of the CAGW program, they believe they will get even more time with French authorities, & I don’t doubt it:
18 Nov: AFP:Mariette Le Roux: Reeling from attacks, France bans Paris climate rallies
Green groups urged people around the world to join the other 2,173 events being planned worldwide as part of a Global Climate March on November 28 and 29.
“Now it’s even more important for people everywhere to march on the weekend of November 29th on behalf of those who can’t, and show that we are more determined than ever to meet the challenges facing humanity with hope, not fear,” said Emma Ruby-Sachs of campaign group Avaaz…
Climate NGOs said they ***would discuss possibilities with the French authorities for an alternative, safe gathering on November 29.
“For those who were planning to travel to Paris, still come and join us, and together we’ll find a way to take action together,” said Haeringer.
“We will find new, imaginative ways to ensure our voices are heard in the UN conference centre and beyond,” said Jean Francois Julliard of Greenpeace France.
http://news.yahoo.com/france-bans-two-planned-paris-climate-summit-rallies-192646586.html
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18 Nov: UK Daily Mail: Victoria Bischoff: The great smart meter rip-off: Energy giants will use devices to DOUBLE the cost of power when you need it most
Digital smart meters rolled out as an energy-saving measure
Energy giants are set to use digital smart meters as a way to double the cost of power when families need it most — adding nearly £60 a year to the average bill.
A Money Mail investigation has discovered Britain’s leading power firms are expected to introduce tariffs that charge more at peak times when they roll out new electronic meters which monitor how much energy you use by the second.
It means electricity and gas used in the evenings could cost 99 per cent more than at other times — penalising everyone cooking family meals, watching popular TV shows and heating their homes on chilly winter evenings…
Higher charges will also apply in the morning when people are most likely to be taking baths and showers and having the central heating on…
‘I’ve heard government officials say this could be a way in which we could use energy more efficiently by charging more at peak times. I think that’s rather naive.’…
The devices were also rolled out in the Australian state of Victoria from 2006, with the aim of saving £36.7 million.
But the move was condemned by privacy campaigners, who warned that big energy companies would know every detail of their home lives, while costs spiralled out of control.
The price of the scheme rocketed to 88 per cent above budget last year and, in a damning report, Victoria’s auditor-general John Doyle found that consumers were paying more, promised benefits were yet to appear and ‘most of the cost savings achieved by distributors from smart meters are yet to flow through to retailers and on to customers’…
Claire Maugham, director of policy and communications at Smart Energy GB: ‘Time-of-use tariffs will mean the option to use energy at a time when it is cheaper.’…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/bills/article-3322658/The-great-smart-meter-rip-UK-energy-giants-use-devices-DOUBLE-cost-power-need-most.html
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18 Nov: ReutersCarbonPulse: Mike Szabo: Investors worth €20 trillion push global miners to better manage climate risks
A global network of more than 270 institutional investors representing assets worth over €20 trillion ($21.3 trillion) is pushing mining companies to recognise and better manage the risks climate change and the move towards a low-carbon economy pose to their operations and bottom lines.
The Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change (IGCC) on Wednesday launched a guide to drive closer collaboration between investors and the global mining sector to attempt to curb the threat of so-called stranded assets torpedoing the value of investment portfolios…
Stephanie Maier, head of responsible investment strategy & research at Aviva Investors: “To protect their long term interests, investors want assurances that the capital allocation decisions made by the boards of major mining companies give clear consideration to climate change, and to the associated energy transition, in ways that will ensure the future sustainability and profitability of the entire sector.”…
http://carbon-pulse.com/investors-worth-e20-trillion-push-global-miners-to-better-manage-climate-risks/
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18 Nov: ReutersCarbonPulse: Stian Reklev: Draft plan to propose mix of grandfathering and benchmarks, ex-post adjustments for China’s national ETS
Researchers drawing up a draft allocation plan for China’s national carbon market will propose China use a mix of historical emission data and industrial benchmarks to decide how many CO2 allowances emitters will get, according to Tsinghua University researcher Zhang Xiliang, a key expert assisting the NDRC in the design process…
The presentation offered crucial insights into current thinking among market designers on how to distribute CO2 permits in what will eventually become the world’s biggest emissions trading system, although it is early in the process and there is room for major changes to be made by policy-makers…
In Europe, Germany pushed for such an option in 2004 and 2005, but it was eventually rejected by the European Commission, who saw it as undue government intervention in the market…
http://carbon-pulse.com/draft-plan-to-propose-mix-of-grandfathering-and-benchmarks-ex-post-adjustments-for-chinas-national-ets/
18 Nov: ReutersCarbonPulse: Ben Garside: EU Parliamentary committees wrestle for control of ETS reforms
Two rival parliamentary committees are battling for control of the post-2020 ETS reform proposal and it could result in the dossier being split between them, according to a senior parliamentary source.
The tussle could result in the environment committee (ENVI) being responsible for drafting any changes to elements of the proposal related to carbon leakage, while the industry committee (ITRE) could handle the section on the innovation and modernisation funds…
Any amendments will ultimately be voted on by the entire parliament and also require agreement with a majority of the EU Council of member states and the European Commission, in a process likely to be settled by the end of 2016 at the earliest…
http://carbon-pulse.com/eu-parliamentary-committees-wrestle-for-control-of-ets-reforms/
01
18 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Gerard Wynn: Coal: The first casualty of the global climate fight
It’s early days to say that coal is in terminal decline, but the signs are not good. Support will be needed to help communities and countries adapt to a structural decline
Writing in 1942, the twentieth century Austrian-American economist Joseph Schumpeter coined the term “creative destruction”, in his book Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy…
Naturally, this is a cause for celebration for environmental groups worried about the impact of coal on the climate and wider environment. But it is equally important to consider the impact of a decline on mining communities…
The large costs of aiding losers in an industrial transition can be balanced by reinvestment into high growth industries…
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/11/18/coal-the-first-casualty-of-the-global-climate-fight/
re the writer above:
Energy&Carbon: Gerard Wynn
Gerard Wynn has two decade’s experience in energy, climate change, the environment and economics. In 2014, Gerard founded the consultancy GWG Energy, providing communications and analysis services in the fields of energy and climate change. Gerard also writes op-eds and analysis for a range of media outlets, including ChinaDialogue and Responding to Climate Change. Previously, Gerard worked for a decade as a reporter, columnist and analyst at ***REUTERS News Agency, where he helped lead energy and climate coverage. Prior to that, he worked as a researcher in environmental and land use policy at the James Hutton Research Institute, Aberdeen, Scotland. Gerard holds a PhD in environmental economics from Aberdeen University (2002), and a Masters in Agricultural Economics from Imperial College at Wye (1997).
http://energyandcarbon.com/contact-us/
previous story by Wynn:
COLUMN-Saudi solar is a no-brainer: Gerard Wynn
Reuters-27 Feb 2013
01
Coal is in serious decline…..
In 2013 41% of electricity was generated using coal as the fuel. In 2040 the IEA thinks that will reduce to 30%.
Or in other words coal was responsible for generating 9.56 TWh in 2013, and in 2040 it will be responsible for 11.8TWh. The next generation of power plants will be possibly twice as efficient as the current fleet, so total thermal coal tonnes will reduce. However, coals ain’t coals (to mangle a phrase).
The higher quality coal needed for the HELE plants is not nearly as abundant as the low quality coals often burnt in today’s fleet. The higher quality thermal coals will be highly sought after. Australia is a significant provider of these types of coal.
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18 Nov: CBC: AP: October heat record smashed by ‘incredible amount’
‘This year is going to be an all-time record-breaker,’ researcher predicts
Even in a record-breaking hot year for Earth, October stood out as absurdly warm.
The U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said that last month globally was 14.98 C. That’s the hottest October on record by a fifth of a degree over the old mark, “an incredible amount” for weather records, said NOAA climate scientist Jessica Blunden.
October’s temperature was the most above-normal month in history. It was 0.98 degrees Celsius above the 20th-century average…
Blunden and other scientists blame a potent and strengthening El Nino on top of accelerating man-made global warming.
“This is just a new normal,” Blunden said. “I don’t know what really else to call it.”…
Record heat was found in Australia, southern Asia, parts of western North America, much of central and southern Africa, most of Central America and northern South America, according to NOAA…
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/october-2015-heat-record-1.3324761
it’s a cool 25 degrees at my place right now, when Brisbane is forecast to be 33 degrees today. time will tell.
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18 Nov: GlobalNewsCanada: Canadian Press: Ian Bickis: 30 Alberta municipalities sound alarm over NDP plan to phase out coal power
EDMONTON & CALGARY – Change is coming to Alberta’s electricity sector, but industry watchers are divided on how it will affect rates for consumers already hit hard by the enduring global oil price slump.
On Wednesday the mayors and reeves of 30 Alberta municipalities published an open letter to Premier Rachel Notley. The letter said there is rising concern with the province’s plan to accelerate the phasing out of coal-fired power plants.
The group said the government’s climate change and renewable energy strategies will have “significant consequences for the economy, jobs, communities and all the citizens of Alberta.”…
The letter pointed out tax revenue from the electricity sector helps fund community services. It also addressed more immediate fears that changes in the way power is generated could result in higher electricity bills for Alberta businesses — some of which are already suffering from the economic downturn…
VIDEO: WATCH: Ontario’s auditor general found so-called smart meters that many people have installed on their homes, have cost customers far more than they should have —billions of dollars more. Eric Sorensen looks into the numbers…
http://globalnews.ca/news/2346393/alberta-rate-hikes-debated-in-shift-from-coal-to-alternate-power-sources/
18 Nov: AFP: Chinese emissions to rise despite coal peak
The Asian giant is estimated to have released nine to ten billion tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2013, nearly twice as much as the US and around two and a half times the European Union…
But there is huge uncertainty about China’s maximum emissions level, with estimates ranging from 11 to 20 billion tonnes a year.
Such an increase could mean developed countries having to make deeper cuts than already pledged for the two degree target to be met.
The lack of clarity was highlighted this year when Beijing suddenly revised its annual coal use estimates upwards by hundreds of millions of tonnes…
But most of China’s electricity still comes from coal — it used 4.2 billion tonnes in 2013, and environmental campaign group Greenpeace says it has approved 155 new coal-fired power plants this year alone…
https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/30132248/chinese-emissions-to-rise-despite-coal-peak/
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Be afraid, be very afraid.
00
CON 21 = Big on Propaganda ,microscopic on science .
The biggest BSer is always the Loudest !
Maybe for the CON21 they should have thy opening statement emanating from a burning bush …… ‘CAGW is not BS’ !
Just BYO Straight Jackets …Eco-Terrorists inside …Isis terrorists outside .
CAGW inside ….ISIS outside .
If CON21 fails ,it’s CON22 next year !….At least the ISIS terrorists don’t pretend to be our friends .
Which group of ‘True B’lvers ‘ will do the most damage ,I wonder ?
And I always thought that Religions were supposed to aide society ….Doesn’t seem to be working too good so far !
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You have entered the twilight zone …
Ham & Pineapple Pizza … Malcolm Talkbull wears a pineapple shirt.
Possibly green ham.
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Is it bullying when the so-called “skeptics” are found out on factual errors at every turn. What a soppy crock argument, merely in an attempt to justify scientifically retarded viewpoints! Poor sooks can’t handle any true scepticism of their continuing nonsense.
[So let’s see what readers think. I’ll bet there will be no green thumbs. What do you bet?] AZ
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It depends. If you can point to real science to support your objection, then no. If the objections are vacuous and you have nothing to contribute but annoyance, then yes. Anyone who looks in to the IPCC’s agenda driven science, rather than accept their conclusions blindly, will see that it’s supported by nothing more than inconclusive evidence of excess warming, coincidence for cause and speculation for consequence and this is why the later is more common and most will say yes.
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AGW is reality. A few differing opinions but nothing which holds up to proper scrutiny. No science to the contrary.
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silly,
What doesn’t stand up to scrutiny is the IPCC’s significantly over-estimated sensitivity which was cast in stone long before anyone knew for sure. They needed a sensitivity that high in order to justify their agenda of wealth redistribution under the guise of climate reparations and this why the IPCC perpetuates the lie and will never get it right. Just look at this plot.
http://www.palisad.com/co2/tp/fig1.png
The 20K little dots represent monthly averages of surface temperature vs. planet emissions from 3 decades of GISS processed satellite date. The larger dots are the LTE averages over the full data set. Plots of the SB law with emissivity = 1 and emissivity = 0.62 are shown for reference.
If an unknown thermodynamic system exhibits bulk gray body behavior, what can possibly support a sensitivity several times larger (blue line) than the gray body its behaving like (green line)? The only possibility is a linearity error made by the IPCC way back in AR1. Interestingly, they defend the linear assumption by claiming that its linear over a small range, which of course it is, but the slope is the slope of SB and not a slope inferring a completely linear relationship between temperature and emissions.
In fact, the SB max sensitivity indicated by the green line is the theoretical maximum sensitivity as this characterizes the radiant path from the surface to space which is the limiting factor dictating how warm the planet can become. The actual sensitivity is somewhat lower.
Unless you can cite solid physics that can override the sensitivity dictated by the Stefan-Boltzmann LAW by at least a factor of 3, the idea of a sensitivity as high as claimed is nothing but a pipe dream.
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Watch it, they will get you under 18c on the basis that you have offended sooks everywhere. 🙂
10
With due regard for bullying, our leader has said that he is more concerned about home grown terrorists than terrorist that might be brought in from Syria for resettlement as refugees?
So the immigrants resettled would not follow the ones that came here earlier and produce more potential terrorists for the future?
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As a survivor of many operations I am all in favour of surgical trainees being bullied to weed out the weak , I don’t want someone up to his wrists in me armed with a scalpel having a hissy fit or a breakdown.
[you should not wish for others what you would not like to go through yourself.] AZ
01
OK SF, I will play your game.
1. You state, “AGW is reality”. Please define reality.
2. Please define AGW, in relation to reality; and state all of the chemical and phyical processes involved, to the depth that you can state that “AGW is reality”
3. Please provide empirical proof that all of the AGW is man-made, and to do that, you will need to exclude all other potential variances in nature that might have an influence.
4. Please explain why you expect us to provide science to the contrary, when it is a logical fallacy to demand proof that something does not exist. The logical onus is on you, in answering my question number 1.
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Counter the group think and bullying on Twitter by providing a different opinion. It sends them into a frenzy sometimes (when I supported Tony Abbott) and at other times I have been able to sway opinions. The more that contribute the better, be polite and logical.
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Az, Ed, not surprised, which is why I flagged it for you, but isn’t it offensive that our rights to freely express an opinion on a change that is clearly significant to every one of 25 million Australians is unable to be spoken about in public because of an act of parliament!
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