JoNova
A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).
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As the Europian Union faces up to the loss of one of its biggest contributors Jean-Claude Juncker says he hopes Britain will rejoin the EU after Brexit and meanwhile the EU could start selling Associate Memberships at the door to raise funds ..
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Bureaucrats like Juncker are the reason why so many Britons want out of the EUSSR.
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Bureaucrats always want to expand their holdings, but show little or no concern for the opinions of those they already control.
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I have seen a bureaucrat defined as below:
A bureaucrat is someone who obeys orders from above and ignores complaints from below.
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You mean to say it needs to be defined? I thought that’s what they do by default.
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Bureaucrats want power, authority and praise, all else be damned. They are so far out from the people that do the work on the ground for them, they have no connection to their own workers, let alone the rest of society which is who they are wanting the praise from. Most of their praise is self praise anyway.
They promote themselves in news and by association. Opening bridges and sporting complexes. Its all spending someone else’s money anyway, not that they’d ever recognise that.
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That is an interesting point of view, Greg.
You seem to be suggesting that Bureaucrats who manage the Public Service, are somehow different to Public Servants, who administer the law, and provide what passes for “services”, to the public. You also seem to be suggesting that it is they, the Bureaucrats, who open the bridges and sporting complexes, whereas I would have assumed that the ceremonial functions were the purview of the politicians.
Perhaps it is different, on my side of “the ditch”?
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Public serpents is the appropriate terminology.
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Sorry, I stand corrected.
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We have three levels of government here. Within Local Government anybody can be important.
I’m not inclined to call Councillors politicians, but some are just there for the fame. Some are genuinely there to help the community and they do a great job.
But managers at every level can promote themselves as a great public whatever. Some do, some don’t.
I work in local council and what I see at that level disgusts me. But I view local council as a miniature version of state government. And I fear to know what waste goes on at the federal government level.
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You mean like a chook raffke at the local club…?
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Here are key historical references for the “Error in Calculated Nuclear Energy“ –
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Nuclear_Energy_Error.pdf
Concluding statements on the error will be added later today, but this will give readers an opportunity to study the historial basis for the error that isolated humanity from reality after WWII.
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“3. Weizsacker (1935) assumed the neutron (Z/A =0) and proton (Z/A =1)
are fundamental particles, unchanged in heavier atoms (0<Z/A<1), and
miscalculated “nuclear binding energy” as distance from the dashed,
sloping base-line across top of the above figure on the right."
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/royprsa/136/830/692.full.pdf
This is not a reference to anything Weizsacker (1935)! Have you any evidence whatsoever?
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Although I have only looked at a small part of the paper, and forgetting the issue under discussion, it is nevertheless amazing that these scientists were able to put together a “model” of the atom that could serve as a guide to useful experiments.
This is a real model at work.
KK
Oliver, it seems that the point you are trying to get across is still not within my grasp.
Will commented earlier, I think, that binding energy (nucleus) can vary with atomic weight.
What is the core issue?
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Keith,
Look up the Solar Triple-alpha process. For a start:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-alpha_process
Does any of this have physical evidence, rather than only quantum probability? Which one is ‘science’?
“What is the core issue?”
Indeed! What is the core issue? Seems like only; “what us peasants are supposed to ‘believe’ from the ramblings of opposing groups of elites”! From where do these self appointed ‘aristocrats’ get their authority? Has quantum speculation completely replaced empirical evidence?
All the best! -will-
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Thanks Will, interesting; haven’t been near stuff like that since 1968.
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Yes, Will, government research funds have been, and probably are still being, spent to try to confirm the imaginary
3 He-4 => 1 C-12
fusion reaction in the laboratory.
Nature does not follow flawed models of Cosmology, as noted in the paper that I presented at “The Eighth International Symposium on Nuclei in the Cosmos” in Vancouver, BC on 19-23 July 2004.
My paper was not included in the Conference Proceedings.
I will post a picture below of me with a leading scientist there in the flawed field of nuclear cosmology.
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“the flawed field of nuclear cosmology.”
Wunderkind\wondering of the scope of this universe is to be encouraged! It is the inane assumptions of some academics, for example, “the speed of light”, (relativistic propagation velocity of EMR flux being some ‘constant’), that truly destroys ‘science’! At 10 microns wavelength through a slab of germanium (Ge), is flux velocity c/4 or is it “thickness measurement” x 4?
Why would any thinking person even consider such nonsense, given no evidence whatsoever? Why would e0 and mu0 be the same ‘way over yonder? Is it only ‘cosmology’, or all of ‘quantum nonsense’ that is so afflicted? Quantum consideration is also to be encouraged, as a aid to learning! Such can never be part of the demonstrable physical! (science)!
All the best! -will-
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Here is the picture from the Vancouver Conference on Nuclei in the Cosmos:
http://www.omatumr.com/Photographs/Clayton_desc.htm
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Here is the abstract of the paper we submitted for presentation at the 2004 Conference on Nuclei in the Cosmos:
http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts2005/IronRichSun.pdf
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Will Janoschka,
1. I apologize for citing the wrong hyperlink for Weizsacker’s 1935 paper, “Zur Theorie der Kern-massen.” Zeitschrift für Physik A: Hadrons and Nuclei, 96: 431-458 (1935). In fact, I could not find a hyperlink to Weizsacker’s original 1935 paper. Almost all nuclear physics textbooks promote Weizsacker’s nuclear binding energy equation. In 1961 I studied nuclear physics from the textbook written by MIT Professpr Evans, Robley D. (1955): The Atomic Nucleus (McGraw Hill, Inc., 972 pp).
I noticed then that Weizsacker’s (1935) definition of “nuclear binding energy” is biased and obscures neutron repulsion and exaggerates proton repulsion by arbitrarily assuming that each neutron has 0.782 MeV more “nuclear binding energy” than each proton. That is why each radioactive atom that decays by electron emission has a greater value of “nuclear binding energy” than its stable decay product, when the decay energy (Q) is Q < 0.782 MeV.
In 1966 I presented a paper on this error at the Annual APS Meeting in New York (26-29 Jan 1966), abstract EB1, Bulletin of the American Physical Society, volume 11, no. 1, page 82.
2. Quantum mechanics is held sacred in nuclear physics, and sometimes seems to replace empirical evidence when misunderstood. For example, the neutron and the hydrogen atom are the alpha and omega of all other atoms and the entire cosmos. They are essentially, but not exactly, compacted and expanded forms of electron-proton pairs. Thus, the “scheme of quantum mechanics” may not be a valid objection to suggestions by Rutherford (1920), Ono (1926), Chadwick (1932) and others that the neutron is a closely combined proton and electron.
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Thanks Oliver, paragraph 2 seems to hit the right button.
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Oliver,
I also cannot find the Weizsacker (1935) paper in readable form! I now have:
Astronomy E-ISSN No : 2454-9916 | Volume : 2 | Issue : 8 | August 2016
*Oliver K. Manuel CSSI Associate & Emeritus Professor , University of Missouri, Cape Girardeau, MO, USA 63701. (*Corresponding Author) 43 International Education & Research Journal [IERJ]
1. Introduction
E = mc² cannot be ‘mass (m) is stored energy (E)’ ever! That assignment is backward.
m = E/c² makes no sense whatsoever! What might be Joule(second²)/area? Could that be some power density in four-space?
Einstein only reported that if mass (m) can be converted to energy (E) that energy value cannot be greater than mc² All the rest is symbolic algebra, (alphabet soup), never any science! Besides, How can rest mass ever be determined at temperatures above 0 Kelvin? This seems to be true non-science! What ‘exists’ as a neutron?
I will try to reread your paper for meaning!
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“How can rest mass ever be determined at temperatures above 0 Kelvin? “
1. All these rest mass energies of atoms, http://www.omatumr.com/Data/2000Data.htm,
are determined by energies of nuclear reactions and by mass/charge measurements in mass spectrometers.
2. Rest mass energies of atoms are orders of magnitude greater than thermal energy, as confirmed in nuclear reactions
3. Rest mass energies of all known atoms in the “Cradle of the Nuclides” http://www.omatumr.com/Data/2000Data.htm, reveal
_ a.) Attractive forces between neutrons and protons, and low values of rest mass energy (high values of nuclear stability), when the nuclear density is Z/A ~ 0.5
_ b.) Repulsive forces between protons produce high values of rest mass energy (low values of nuclear stability) when the nuclear density increases toward Z/A ~ 1
_ c.) Repulsive forces between neutrons produce high values of rest mass energy (low values of nuclear stability) when the nuclear density decreases toward Z/A ~ 0
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Oliver K. Manuel March 13, 2017 at 4:28 am
(wj: “How can rest mass ever be determined at temperatures above 0 Kelvin? “)
“1. All these rest mass energies of atoms, … are determined by energies of nuclear reactions and by mass/charge measurements in mass spectrometers.”
Reactions: Nuclear Power-plants, Fission\fusion weapons only demonstrate “available energy from mass ‘reactions’, “E = (mc²)/2! What can you mean by your ‘rest mass energy’ when nothing is “resting!”? More importantly (what is “rest mass”) when nothing is resting?
“2. Rest mass energies of atoms are orders of magnitude greater than thermal energy, as confirmed in nuclear reactions”
OK! What is “rest mass”, when nothing is resting? Those relativistic ‘electrons’ provide all power for EMR including ‘Gamma rays’, emitted whenever one of your ‘neutrons’ is emitted; but only in a direction of, and limited by, lower gamma ray radiance, as per J. C. Maxwell! (admittedly most directions).
“3. Rest mass energies of all known atoms in the “Cradle of the Nuclides” ”
Please! What can you mean by Z/A = 0.5 except the nuclear equivalent of thermal entropy, i.e. power unable to do “work”! Fe56 truly sucks to do work, still a useful construction matter!!
All the best! -will-
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CORRECTION:
Change nuclear density to
Nuclear charge density
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“Change nuclear density to Nuclear charge density”
Again some claim that the infinitesimal so called ‘volume’, or ‘proton charge’ of an atomic nucleus, has meaning! The measurable (space) volume of a single ‘gas molecule’, with huge mass, (for complex hydrocarbons+N), may have some meaning, even to those not yet insane.
The word ‘density’ can have no meaning in a dynamic four-space, with sub atomic ‘particles’ of infinite properties, (spin, color, parity, etc). I sometimes use the term four-space density. That only means that I have yet to discover my very own toes!
All the best! -will-
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Thanks, Will.
Coulomb energy in nuclei is proportional to Z^(2)/A^(2/3), somewhat like nuclear charge density (Z/A)
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Oliver K. Manuel March 13, 2017 at 2:08 pm
“Thanks, Will. Coulomb energy in nuclei is proportional to Z^(2)/A^(2/3), somewhat like nuclear charge density (Z/A)”
OK But the electric field strength is proportional to (e^1/r). The magnetic field strength is proportional to (e^1/r³). The electromagnetic field strength is proportional to (e^t/r²), not (e^1/r²), and cannot be three dimensional. That (t) or (1/t) prevents any earthling, (in the image of GOD), from ever becoming GOD. Suck it up peasant!! Lotsa peasants convert (calorie) power x distance to ‘WORK’
Aw, fu*k it, Lets all get DRONK! -will-
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Thanks to comments/criticisms/suggestions from readers, the “Error in Calculated Nuclear Energy“ has been corrected and conclusions added.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Nuclear_Energy_Error.pdf
Additional comments/criticisms/suggestions would improve the message.
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Oliver,
Thank you for engaging with us for discovery of what is! The conceptual ‘what if’ seems essential for such discovery! Sorry for my ‘dats BS’. 🙂
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Thank you, Will Janoschka,
Thank you and others for taking the time to read and comment on the outline. The final paper will be better, and a larger fraction of the public will understand that Earth’s climate and human destiny are largely controlled by a supernova remnant that is now the pulsar core of the Sun.
Please excuse a typo in my earlier comment:
Change nuclear density to
Nuclear charge density, (Z/A)
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“public will understand that Earth’s climate and human destiny are largely controlled by a supernova remnant that is now the pulsar core of the Sun.”
Oliver,
That is still to be debated!… I feel ‘your such’ is much more likely that the “total crap of anthropogenic atmospheric CO2”! 🙂
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Oliver,
To try to get across anything to others, not in your field, needs ‘some’ concept of scale! For ‘density’ (g/cm³) gold has twice the density of lead! At the same time an average ‘atomic nucleus’ is 10,000,000 times (10^7)as ‘dense’ as lead. Do not try to pick up a ‘nucleus’ within Earth’s gravitational field!, (will rip your fingers & face off!)!
On the other end, our universe has such large volume, all sucked together (compressed) by the force of gravity that it needs a very low ‘density’, a bit greater than 10^-29 that of lead in (g/cm³), to remain “closed”! No loss of so called energy\power to else-where\when! This with ALL of your many many neutron stars and Pulsars. It is only the political SCAMMERS that try to ‘frighten’ Earthlings, with their ridiculous giga-tonnes of atmospheric CO2!
All the best! -will-
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What happened in the WA election? I read that Labor won the election by a landslide. Am I correct to assume that means that the WA will go down the path of expensive unstable electricity?
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There are many options that can confuse the prospective buyer of a generator.
First of all; the generators are rated in kVA; kilovolt-amperes; which for a resistive load like a bar heater of electric jug, is equivalent to kilowatts (kW). It gets a bit messy with inductive loads like electric motors or capacitve ones like switchmode power supplies in computers, TV’s, etc. and LED lamps but for all reasonable equipment, it’s near enough for sheep stations.
To determine the rating, you need to survey your appliances and find out how much current/power they use; and then work out what’s reasonable for you to be using at the same time; when there’s a prolonged power outage. A battery and inverter might help. Tesla’s PowerWail™ will have less than 7kWh of typical reserve which won’t keep the average household ticking over for even 12 hours; but the inverter on that is too wimpy to run even an electric kettle!
It is tempting to spend as little as possible on the first “special” generator on offer. If you just want to be able to run the 2.4kW electric kettle (or less), then a 2.4kVA inverter petrol generator may be a good fit. Prices for cheapies are well under $1000. Watch out for the noise level and you ought to be able to find one rated at below 60dBA at 7 metres. I’ve highlighted the inverter bit because that bit of electronic magic lets the generator produce “clean” 50Hz power, regardless of motor speed; allowing the generator to slow the motor down when not much power is needed. This makes the small generators much more efficient than what they would be otherwise.
If you want to be able to brew a cuppa while the washing machine is running, then 5kVA is about the minimum generator requirement. That’s diesel-generator territory. And anything less than about 8kVA will be air-cooled so intrinsically more noisy. Even the “silenced” ones come in at 70dBA at 7 metres; which is quite loud (twice as loud as the previously-mentioned petrol unit) and if not in a “shed”, would be annoying to neighbours at night. Prices for them start around $1200; noting that those are rated as backup generators and not for continuous (prime/primary) use. So if you run it continuously; expect it to break down.
The low end diesel generators are NOT inverter units. Prices for them started around $4000, last time I checked. The result is that the power from them is a bit wobbly in terms of frequency and voltage so I would advise running expensive equipment off them until you’ve “seen” that they’re unlikely to damage the appliance.
In terms of fuel; the small petrol unit will have a tank with enough fuel for a few hours; usually less than 4 hours at rated load (less than 10kWh electrical power consumption). The bigger diesel units will have a tank capacity for about 12 hours at rated load (i.e. providing about 60kWh)
The diesel generator could, in theory, be safely refuelled while generating whereas it’s never a good idea to top up the fuel tank feeding a running petrol engine. i.e. the diesel can keep generating non-stop as long as you have a supply of diesel fuel.
As for the fuel itself; I am unsure of the arrangement for buying it without paying fuel excise (road tax). This will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as well as the fuel merchants. If you’re a farmer, you probably know the drill.
Diesel generators should have about half the fuel consumption of petrol generators. Specific fuel consumption of the engines is typically less than 200 g/kWh for diesel and around 340 g/kWh for petrol. Diesel is more dense than petrol so those figures translate to 0.24 l/kWh for diesel and 0.49 l/kWh for petrol.
If your household consumes 20kWh of electrical power per day, then you need at least 10 litres of petrol or 5 litres of diesel per day for energy “independence”. The relative volatility of the fuels must be considered if you’re going to keep stock on hand. If there’s a regional blackout for days, the few service stations will have operating bowsers.
It helps to run any internal combustion engine under significant load; near maximum load for petrol, but anywhere from 30% to around 80% on diesels; for maximum efficiency and the best (lowest) fuel consumption. Batteries and a capable inverter (3kW minimum; ideally with a peak greater than generator output) will help to provide power quietly for hours overnight and allow the generators to only cycle at efficient levels during the day; or to be set spinning when you’re about to use a lot more power than “average”.
Fuels don’t “keep” forever. Depending on storage; you should consider “cycling the fuel on an annual basis; running the generator for a while once every 3 months or so to confirm that it works and to consume part of our stock to be replenished (stored separately) ASAP, if not sooner. Earth Day might be an appropriate day to run the floodlights in the back yard for illumination until 11 p.m..
If you want it all automagic; you need an ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) that switches to standby power as soon as possible after the grid power fails.
Cabling up the whole house is a major task at the mains input to the house; after the meter with isolation switches, signage and a large folio of paperwork. If you have something like battery backup and an “islanding” setup from your inverter, then the transition is “seamless”; with the generator kicking in as needed to top up the battery. The capital costs of such is well into five figures; and operating costs around $1000 a year; even if you never “need” it.
I’d much rather that we had an electricity grid supply with five-nines reliability.
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Bernd,
How many batteries and/or gen sets does it take to start the SAG mills at Olympic Dam, Mt Keith of Cadia?
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Well, toorightmate, according to the report on page 22 of Friday’s Australian Lindon Rive, the cousin of the amazing subsidy sink, Elon Musk, claimed that he could single handedly fix the mess in 100 days. Yep 100 days. And single handed. Wow. He’s some man.
He said it according to the “Australian” when launching Tesla’s 2nd generation Powerwall 2.
Now, there’s one born every minute I’m told, but if the Crow-eaters believe the slick sales spiel of this snake-oil salesman then it clearly demonstrates the average number of dopes in South Australia is at the top end of the frequency distribution.
Rive said: (would you believe him?) in South Australia Tesla could install 100MWh – 300MWh of storage in under 100 days – or up to 15 percent of the state’s demand”. He didn’t give a price.
I just love this bit:
“The new Powerwall 2 battery offers just under twice the storage capacity of the original Powerwall and includes an inverter, which the original Powerwall didn’t have.”
Apparently the new product will provide a warranty that “guards against loss of storage below 70% capacity at 10 years for a 13.2 kWh Powerwall 2 unit. 70 percent is 9.24 kWh after 10 years which is more capacity than offered by a brand new 6.4kWh Powerwall 1 unit”. What’s that about the value of paper and the word written upon it, I here you whisper?
Amazing isn’t it? 9.24 kWh is more than 6.4 kWh. Just amazing. Who could possibly have known that unless they were told? They clearly don’t do arithmetic anymore under the SA socialist education system. No wonder they vote Labor.
Oh, and by the way, given that amazing fact, why would anybody buy a Powerwall 1? Indeed, if the improvement is so rapid I think I’d be waiting for the Powerwall 8 or 9. (shoot, self, foot)
And, you can have all this for roughly $10,000, or, if you want solar panels with that, it’ll cost you roughly $15,000. How many? Who knows? Who cares?
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I believe the latest Powerwalls have Lukey mufflers and Stromberg carbies.
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Webbers, as I recall, were even better.
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I single handedly could supply 100 MWh of stored energy in about 20 minutes from the nearest caltex tanker truck 1 kg of diesel is 44.800 MJ and 100MWh is 360,000 MJ so 8035kg or around 10kl of fuel. My domestic water tanks are around 60kl so 100MWh of diesel would fill one of my two water tanks 1/6th full. Of course taking account of thermal eficiency of the backup generator increases that to 1/2 a 60kl water tank of diesel, but what do I know.
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I could provide a real life example if you like.
Four simple cycle gas turbines not far way have a capacity of 180 MW.
All are capable of liquid fueling with diesel fuel.
The storage capacity of the fuel tanks is 500,000 liters.
This is sufficient for 7.9 hours’ operation at full load. 500000/(180*7.9)*100=35,162.
So 100 MW-hr is in this case represented by 35,162 liters or about 28 tonnes. Barely a truckload.
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How many times can you use that 35,162 lires of diesel fuel before it needs replacing Rod?
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Willard:
Once. Can’t you read? OCGT are used to balance the variable nature of wind turbines. They are expensive to run, emit a fair bit of CO2 and have expensive maintenance because of their on/off operation. The cost of them running should be added to the bill for wind turbines but somehow isn’t.
Note even the zero carbon mob in Australia (a mob of university types with NO experience in electricity generation) can’t make their schemes work without OCGTs – biofueled of course because that CO2 doesn’t count.
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It’s called storage, Willard.
1.2 billion barrels just discovered on Alaska’s North Slope.
“Peak oil” postponed once more for a few decades.
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Oil from Alaska Rod? How long will that take to ship to Oz? But why not, if you’re going to burn $150 million dollars of diesel to make 100mwh every day for 10 years why not giving it to our deserving cousins in the Northern hemisphere.
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Thanks for the answer Graeme no3, Once it is then.
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Hmm Willard, I can only use a Musk battery once before you have to fill it up too, so the musk battery is more like the tank I pour the fuel into, do you honestly think they will fill them up with just wind power? A special bus just for the batteries? I can fill up a diesel tank much faster than I can fill up a battery, and I can fill up my tank either as it’s generating or when it’s not generating so its neverending energy, umlike chargingbfrom unreliables. Diesel backup is more efficient than battery by far, since it’s a primary energy source – instead let’s throw away 20% of the energy for nothing by converting the primary source to AC electricity, then to dc electricity, then to chemical energy, then back to dc, then back to AC losing 20% in the process. How dumb is that!
Oh and since I’m a Electrical Engineer, and Electrical Engineers are the expert scientists in electrical generation, I’m sure you’ll agree that everyone should just listen to me unquestioningly just like everyone should listen to Evironmental scientists about climate right?
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Grr, the virtually unusable virtual keyboard strikes again… excuse the typos
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Being an Electrical engineer is one thing Bobl, paying at least an extra $73 million to use diesel to produce peaking electricty over a 10 year period is poor accounting on your part.
01
I own a 5000 W continuous 6000W peak, petrol generator. Fortunately I do not need to use it very often, I live in Northern NY. We do get ice storms hear about every 10 years. These storms cause lots of problems with the electricity.
If you can get ethanol free petrol, then that is what you should use for your generator. I cycle my petrol through and burn off in the car so it will always be fresh.
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You can buy petrol octane boost additives that extend the life by at least one year in storage, great for motors that are not operated regularly like in boats.
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“I own a 5000 W continuous 6000W peak, petrol generator. Fortunately I do not need to use it very often,”
I have a 10kW Hobart welder\220V petrol generator, 20 Hp Kohler engine, always starts. Can weld at 200 Amps with 3/8″ sticks. I do not need to use it very often, but my neighbors covet the damn thing! 🙂
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When I saw this comment on the WA erection result earlier this morning I thought it was one of the funniest responses to a political disaster evah!! Nobody has commented on that aspect of Bernd’s otherwise very appropriate post.
🙂
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Comment so popular that I’ve made it a blog post.
Remember to #notmypremier your comments on Facebook and Twitter 😉
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Bernd, I fear that you may be trying to take over from Willard as the bloggs new battery salesman.
🙂
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Thanks for that.
It’s always difficult to draw a line at how much detail to put in a comment or blog post.
Those who can work out the required battery capacity to keep the home friendly to occupants and neighbours, can also conceive of much cheaper options than the PowerWail™.
I also touched briefly on islanding inverters that provide not only for battery connections to sustain the household when when the grid goes grey/dark/black; but they typically also provide for starting a generator when the battery appears to be running low. That’s the typical and real off-grid application. And one for which you get/got no green funny money (like RECS) at all when I last checked about 2 years ago; because being off-grid, there is no large generator to monster for RET compliance.
There is no social good that is done by off-grid systems where the grid ought to be providing reliable electrical power to all consumers.
In terms of consumer rights, since when was it the consumer’s responsibility to assure the quality of the services for which they’re paying?
BTW: Freo hospital suffered badly during power failures after their standby generators failed to generate. Operations had to be completed under emergency lighting. Moreover; significant quantities of surgical/medical supplies were spoilt by the heat; putting pressure on staff to clear and re-stock for scheduled surgery in the following week.
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” there is no social good …..”
” in terms of consumer rights ….”
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We have provided ourselves with ” governments ” to look after our electricity needs.
In an engineering sense, this is dead easy and so much cleaner than 50 years ago, but almost impossible to achieve in an insane world dominated by political imperatives.
KK
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Then there’s the disposal of the exhaust fumes, including CO. Messy. Certainly not a comfortable option.
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Liberals flogged, Nationals steady. Government out of time, out of energy, out of money and just had enough of fighting the odds. Labor Party said 50% RET; McGowan says no, no, no, whilest the person letting cat out sent to Siberia. We elect self interested egoists, but I believe our politicians, with the evidence of failure staring them in the eyes, don’t have the will, nor the courage to suspend the belief in the AGW energy story they have prosecuted on the nation. Self preservation always first.
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Apoxonbothyourhouses posted a YouTube video of Dr. Don Easterbrook testifying at the US Senate Energy Environment etc. Committee yesterday.
http://joannenova.com.au/2017/03/climate-institute-runs-out-of-money-2/#comment-1897415
Don Easterbrook put to bed the whole notion of ocean acidification by saying that even if the minuscule CO2 increase in the atmosphere were transferred to the 300 cubic miles of ocean, there aren’t enough molecules to do it.
I hadn’t thought of it that way before.
Plus of course, if the oceans are warming, they will drive CO2 out.
It’s a long video and the ocean acidification part starts at the 1:00:00 mark.
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My point for years. The warming lobby now says CO2 is heating the oceans because it certainly is not heating the air. In this new fake science, how the oceans are heated is not even explained. There is no hothouse explanation. Worse as Easterbrook points out, the simplest chemistry means that CO2 leaves the oceans. So we are given twisted Science with acidification and global warming increasing Ocean CO2 , the exact opposite of what the simplest physical chemistry tells us is true. So reverse the facts with a straight face and claim scientists agree.
Amazingly the CSIRO last year hosted an international Ocean Acidification conference in Hobart. These are real scientists writing papers on Ocean Acidification. It pays their wages, their airfares, the accommodation, their dinners. Of course they know the oceans are alkali. They know warmer oceans release CO2. However they know Global Warming funds them and to disagree means not only is there no money, there are no promotions and your job is at risk. This is how Global Warming and Ocean Acidification are perverting science. 100% of scientists know that to disagree will cost you your job and stop the conferences. That includes the Chief Scientist.
This happened in WW2. Germans said they did not know what was happening in the camps, behind the lines, in occupied countries like Byelorussia, Ukraine. Even Pope Pius XII stayed silent. As many Catholics died in the camps and the Gulags, but the wise approach was silence.
We will not be silent. There is no ocean acidification. There is no climate change and if somewhere the Climate is changing, it is natural change and change is natural. There is no global warming and there is no evidence of a hot spot which is absolutely necessary for CO2 driven global warming to even occur as the CO2 increase is universally agreed to be insufficient to cause heating of the air.
All major temperature shifts in the last 2,500 years can be explained with two cycles, the 250 year De Vries cycle and the 25 year Pacific Decadal Oscillation. They not only fit the facts as far back was we can determine, they predict the pause and the future cooling. This is observational science. A simple and natural explanation which also predicts the higher CO2.
Fake news, fake science, socialism posing as environmentalism. This has to stop. For the last century, Australia has had its own petroleum, its own coal, its own refineries and its own power stations. Apart from minor running costs, our electricty and petrol and energy should be near free.
So now we are paying the world’s highest prices for energy while we shut our refineries, shut and dynamite our working power stations, shut our smelters and factories and beggar our own country for an imported political agenda where we actually apologise for our successful Western democratic society and all justified by fake IPCC science where we and we alone save the world by impoverishing ourselves. This is worse than the Rapture and has to stop. Repeal the Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act 2000.
433
Well said! At least no-one has been talking about thermal expansion,at least that I’ve come across. Rest assured the oceans won’t boil.
100
I wondered about that. The coefficient of expansion for water is 0.0001 per degree. The oceans average at 3.4km deep. So a uniform increase in ocean temperature of 1C at 3,400 metres average would be 0.34 metres.
However as the oceans are 340 x as massive as the air above (1 atmosphere per ten metres), a 1C increase in air temperature in 100 years would take 3,400 years to produce a rise of 300mm. No, the melting of ice is what raises the water level but as Antarctica is -25C in summer, -50C in winter, this is not going to happen soon.
My other observation having traveled across Siberia and Europe and the US, is that the winter deep snow and ice all melts and the rivers run at incredible speed but the deep oceans do not change. No one drowns in New York from massive spring sea rise even though there are spring floods in the rivers. Summer to winter from Melbourne to Tokyo, it all looks the same. Flannery’s scare is just not even right to simple mathematics.
Floating ice contributes nothing when it melts, but with all the fuss about the vanishing Arctic ice, you would think we were all doomed. No one much mentions the vast increase in Antarctic ice, enough by my calculations to drop sea levels 6mm in one year.
160
I’ve handled CO2 for industrial and food use. The only way to hold more CO2 in water and lower pH is to make the water colder. Warm water wants to expel CO2 into the atmosphere and doesn’t like to absorb it. Maybe if Dr Easterbrook handed out a warm can of Fanta and a cold can of Fanta to each committee member, got them to shake both cans a bit, then…
Sorry, that’s experiment and observation, isn’t it? My bad.
300
It’s also called Henry’s Law. Heat the cola and the gas comes out. Cool it and the gas goes in. Of course warmists need you to believe the opposite of known schoolboy level chemistry for dissolved gas equilibrium.
110
The simple explanation is that gas enters and leaves water all the time, quickly. Life started in the oceans as it is stuffed full of air. Thanks to the fact that CO2 compresses easily, 98% of all CO2 is dissolved in the oceans. As it heats, the CO2 molecules move faster on average, so they are more likely to reach escape velocity and leave the water.
Warmist would have you believe that CO2 does not enter the water, because then the fossil fuel CO2 would vanish. However they also want you to believe that the extra CO2 enters the water and makes it more acidic (not actually acidic, just lower pH).
So we are asked to believe two contradictory things, which is absurd.
160
We are also asked to believe something which as you point out we know not to be true. Heat the water and it absorbs more CO2 because there is more CO2 above? What we do know is that if you heat the water, CO2 comes out. So the increase in CO2 is due to the heating, not the other way around.
150
“Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast”, said the Mad Hatter.
So a few contradictory things should be nothing of import.
140
Solar panels help, but dear indeed,
With air-conditioning on, when there’s no need.
Some households must have lots of cash to burn,
If the P.V. they installed shows no return.
The warmists claim that climate-change on wheat,
Will make in future, bread more bland to eat.
A toxic sludge, both deadly and obscene,
Pollutes our world, to make wind-turbines ‘green’.
For warmists it’s an unsuccessful tale,
As all their planet-saving projects fail.
The grid shuts down with total loss of power,
As candles now replace each Kilowatt hour.
On climate-change, some surveys take as fact,
That man’s to blame, and the urgent need to act.
230
Nice change of tempo, Ruairi.
50
🙂
Nice one.
20
Elon Musk is trying to scam another government: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/could-the-tesla-powerpack-really-solve-sas-energy-woes/8345864.
70
Even on the ABC doubts – I daren’t say scepticism – creeps in about Musk. Although they say that a man who TALKS about sending tourists to the moon next year must be taken seriously.
Of more interest I notice pumped storage has caught their eye and they say that efficiencies of 90% can be achieved in both directions, which is a misleading way of saying that the process could be 81% efficient. I would settle for a real world figure of 70-75%. They also refer to some firm which claims that the South Australian desert is the ideal location for a pumped (water) electricity storage scheme. Can anyone spot a possible problem with that in the driest state in the driest continent? The names of the company directors aren’t listed.
110
A recent (27Feb) Letter to the Editor in The Advertiser (see Fantasy Land Fix @ http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/the-advertiser-letters-to-the-editor-february-27/news-story/bee3dcfbc4ddbe641b3f11c2dfc00a15) gives a good argument for NOT expecting pumped storage to work in SA.
Also, a large proportion of outback SA is extremely flat and below sea level, it having been an inland sea in the far past. It was common to find shells on the ground back in the 60’s when I lived in Woomera.
Premier Ditherall is supposed to be informing us of his all-encompassing solution to power tomorrow. The ones who created the problem are now going to fix it (is /sarc necessary?).
30
Thanks for that link. I had to search down a bit but David Bidstrup is well worth reading.
And I like the Ditherall name.
00
Elon will be in strife now that the money tap from Oh Bummer has been turned off. He needs another sucker. Suckers don’t come much better than Jay Weatherdill.
Maybe Weatherdill could try to get Aquion to supply the batteries – another group which has failed with the Oh Bummer money tap having been turned off.
230
The same Elon Musk that advises Mr Trump, next meeting Wednesday, http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/10/billionaire-innovator-elon-musk-is-a-force-of-nature-trump-infrastructure-advisor-says.html
110
Yep,
The same Elon Musk who will NOT get US$6bn from this president to waste on cars, batteries and trips to Mars.
I assume you drive a Tesla Willard?
Does the long extension chord present a problem in heavy traffic?
201
Toorightmate just like Andy, only has the attention span to read the click bait headline and not the details, care to breakdown this “US$6bn” ?. How much of that is a loan that has been repaid in full ( the same loan the big 3 US car makers also recieved) how much is tax credits available to buyers of electric cars ( the same tax credits available to GM Bolt buyers) how much is advanced tax credits from California and Nevada states encouraging Tesla to build factories, build products and employ Americans on American soil ( unlike other US car makers who take the loans from the U.S. govt so they can build cars in Mexico employing Mexicans) go ahead Toorightmare pull that apart.
213
Willard the man is keen on infrastructure, tunnel borers and presumably wall building along the southern border.
The battery thing in SA is a ruse, Elon Musk is tendering to build a VFT tunnel under the Blue Mountains. This cannot be confirmed or denied.
60
I don’t doubt you El Gordo, although I did get the impression he designed the Hyperloop just to prove there was an alternative to high speed rail, the concept has been taken up by third parties especially looking at transporting freight.
25
The hyperloop concept is good, just a bit ahead of its time. I’m thinking we can build the tunnels and hope he comes up with a workable model to carry passengers at extraordinary speeds, otherwise the tunnels will carry Maglev.
40
Just like batteries, wind turbines, solar panels – great innovations.
Only problem, all released to the commercial “market” about 100 years before being developed to be competitive with convention.
60
A tunnel under the Blue Mountains must one day be built. The problem is, where would they let you dump the spoil?
Back to the AGW and the election. At federal and some state levels, we saw landslide victories reversed at the next elections. The first vote was a vote on policy. The second a vote on prejudice.
And the prejudice is driven by our education system. We have reached the point where half our electorate has been imbued through education with Marxist doctrine.
The Marxists know that their goal is almost in their grasp, and that their support is waning. Hence the hysteria of recent weeks, where they told us of no pause, record ice loss in Antarctica, and record high temps in Antarctica. They have thrown all caution out the window. They need just one more election win at the federal level, and right now they look like getting it.
This is also why we see suchthe hysterical opposition to Trump.
40
“The problem is, where would they let you dump the spoil?”
In abandoned open cut coal mines. 😉
30
You have to understand that Elon Musk has been one of the biggest government trough feeders about:
– http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html
– http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-06/how-elon-musk-used-broken-marketplace-play-us-all
– http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/06/29/elon-musk-wins-by-gaming-the-subsidy-game/
– https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-subsidy-aggregation-1466638430
Do we really need him in Australia to start spending our money?
160
Once again Bemused is another person with only enough attention span to read the click bait headlines but not the finer details.
416
You do assume a lot, don’t you? Unfortunately, that doesn’t really wash as a counter-argument.
120
So then considering you have taken the time to research the “subsidies” and you understand that the $4.9 billion represents a loan that has been paid back in full ahead of time, tax deductions for car buyers and tax credits from governments that have Tesla facilities constructed in their state employing Americans I will assume you are just copying and pasting the tired old line about subsidies in desperation as you have nothing coherent to say.
111
Once again Willard is another person with only enough attention span to read the click bait headlines but not the finer details.
160
Dullard,
You asked for references and examples and that is what you got.
Now you want to change the goal posts and put it back onto the people who supplied exactly that which you requested.
For further information you should now properly take up your subsequent enquiries with the respective publications hereto linked, the US Government – and its departments responsible for the granting of subsidies to Elon Musk – and then take it up with Elon Musk.
Typical warmist – wanting everyone one else to punt up to save the planet then refuting any evidence that suggests the planet is fine – because you can’t take the credit.
141
See 6.2.1.1.1 for a breakdown of subsidies Andy.
110
10
I would love to see Tony from Oz’s analysis on this as I have a few people to correct thinking this is a life saver.
30
So would I, Tony could throw in some far fetched scenario that’s unlikely to happen and has nothing to do with the intended purpose of the size of the battery storage being investigated, throw in comments like “not in my lifetime” and “where is all the lithium going to come from” and then in a few short years when all the red tape has been cleared and battery storage is mainstream Tony can look back at his post with pride that although wrong he stood up for the little man.
110
So would I, Willard could throw in some far fetched scenario that’s unlikely to happen and has nothing to do with the intended purpose of the size of the coal fire power station, throw in comments like “not in my lifetime” and “where is all the coal going to come from” and then in a few short years when all the red tape has been cleared and coal is back mainstream Willard can look back at his post with pride that although wrong he stood up for the stupid man.
There fixed it for you
130
‘battery storage being mainstream’ is delusional !
10,000 aud for 9KWH usable storage per day at best assuming there is enough incoming solar to maintain , with a life span of a doubtful 10 years.
that’s 1,000 aud per year for bat degradation/replacement cost for a petty 9 kwh.
What about after say 5 years when bat capacity has reduced to 50% ?
How useful is it’s capacity after 8 years? down to 2kw storage overnight?
Still 1000 aud per year cost and paid all up front!
Plus panels of at least 10 KW to supply power without regular petrol generator startup during low output of winter and heavy overcast days where solar drops to about 10% or less than normal.
So in summary , over 20 years 10,000 for panels and 2 x 10,000 for batteries that are all junk after that 20 year life span.
That’s 3,000 per year just for average house power with a 20,000 up front cost and further 10,000 at 10 years, all without backup gen costs.
Doesn’t sound too ‘free power’ to me!
And now all this nonsense is being applied at commercial and industrial levels!
Now compare the above with China’s power supply user cost of just 8 cents(aud) per KWH and wonder why China now makes everything while here in Aus, our manufacturing is leaving in droves having to pay 30 cents pew KWH with SA paying 50 cents per KWH, and all for increasingly unreliable power.
Now in WA, they have just elected yet another Marxist ‘labor’ party that are closet 50% renewables ratbags.
We also need ‘A Donald’ here to Stop the Rot, Take out the Trash, and Drain our many political, bureaucratic,corporate and media Swamps !
Also , most importantly stop the ratbag indoctrination of our young at our infiltrated so called educational facilities !
30
Ego $10,000 installed for 13.2kwh usable, top of the leaderboard until Bosch bring out 15kwh usable for $9000 and so on.
10
Hmm 13.2 kWh eh, huge for just $10,000 smakaroos, wonderful except when you compare it with fossil fuel stored sunshine where 13.2 kWh = 47.5 MJ or just 1.06 kg (around 1.2 litres) of diesel costing 96c ex of excise and GST.
$10k plus generation vs 96c which I can “Store” in a tin worth $2.50 … gee I wonder which energy store I should choose.
Folks remember thia, the 13.2 kWh $10000 powerwall stores the same energy found in two 600ml (pint) milk cartons filled with diesel.
10
President Trump just loves to meet rich folk that he can sell to!
120
Donald is also going to meet the Palestinian creep, so he ain’t real fussy.
Next thing he’ll want to meet Willard and Griff.
100
I get the impression Elon is offering to install what Elon considers a fix within a hundred days. He wouldn’t even need his cheesy CGI or artist’s impressions to achieve that. But installation and performance are two different things, as anyone who has ever been given a warranty on a new toaster knows. You can get your toaster delivered and plugged in…but will it make toast?
It would be interesting if Elon were to offer a hundred days of guaranteed performance through a full winter or summer without Hazelwood, or no charge. (Elon come back! I was only kidding.)
On the subject of Hazelwood and the near future of the Latrobe Valley, some great news from The Age:
“…on Friday the state government unveiled $85 million of spending in the valley on a range of sports and recreation-related projects, which it said would create 300 jobs during construction and 275 ongoing jobs…
$46 million for a new aquatic and leisure centre in Traralgon.
$17 million to redevelop an indoor sports and entertainment complex in Traralgon.
$6.9 million to deliver major sports, including pre-season matches of elite sport competitions including AFL and soccer, to the region.
$5 million for the upgrade of nine local reserves.
$4 million to upgrade Morwell Recreation Reserve.”
And we all thought that the Latrobe was going to end up like the surface of a pre-Musk Mars! As they say in Victorian and SA political circles, there’s just no problem you can’t half-fix by spending way too much money.
170
Who’s paying for all that spending in the Latrobe Valley
do you suppose? Why, us. Whereas one coal mine, supplying
cheap energy equal to ALL wind turbine’s output…that
creates real industry, you know, wealth for us.
110
But things are looking good across the pond: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/11/delingpole-pruitt-says-no-co2-social-justice-epa/.
70
i”m across the pond usually. try me https://im42na.wordpress.com/2017/03/12/peoples-inherent-freedom-to-self-govern/
30
Having trouble working out just how long 100 Mw of battery will last the state during a blackout ?
60
The recent battery farm installed in California by Tesla was 20MW, 80MWh and in Americn Samoa was 1.4MW, 6MWh so if Elron The Saviour, is simply pitching a scaled up deployment, you would suppose 4 hours. But what is 100MW going to do in the event of a blackout?
Now the proposed farm MAY prevent the rolling blackouts as in last month but once Hazelwood is shut down, the shortfall on a similar day will not be covered.
And if it was deployed, I would imagine it would be used to arbitrage power to generate income so storage could be less than 100% when needed. The degradation from frequent cycling would also reduce the storage over time.
http://www.energymatters.com.au/commercial-solar/battery-energy-storage/tesla-powerpack/
40
Do tesla’s batteries use cobalt. If so, where do they get it from. The mines using child labour in The Congo?
90
Cobalt from Mt Gilmore NSW, Karlgoorlie WA the list goes on.
34
Oh child labour from Australia then, disgusting!
70
Don’t forget the Cobalt from Queensland Nickel (heh, heh, heh).
60
Id be concerned about safety. Call me old fashioned but id put my money on large deep cycle batteries with that much stored energy being safer than flaky lithium ion batteries….
Having seen lithium batteries kick off and burn quickly, a 100 MW stack of them woukd concern me.
90
A pending photon detonation of biblical proportions !
10
About the same time denim jeans last intact when hitting the road in a motorbike crash. 0.5 seconds.
20
Can Tesla convince Australians that steel-works, smelters and shipyard (submarine) builders can maintain all required operations by relying heavily on renewables+battery energy sources?
I’d need more proof than some glib headline grabbing claim, although today’s ABC tame interview with Senator Hanson-Young would point to such belief.
70
I think Musks’ offer is a distraction – the real issue isn’t a flaky grid, its flaky green-sympathetic govt in SA thats the issue…..fix thr govt, fix the problem.
QED
70
My submarine contained a 30’x30’x8′ compartment filled with lead/acid battery’s. We did fine and the “boat” was fully 500′ along and 33′ in diameter. Of course we kept them charged with nuclear power.
130
I reckon just ask Senator Hanson-Young the question:
Who would be prioritised if a Tesla battery system were installed?
I would argue that only people without subsidised solar panels on their roof should be supplied.
There is a social justice issue at stake here. Fairness.
The good Senator Hanson-Young would lovingly embrace this obvious logic given her communist leaning background. 😉
80
The offer was not for a 100MW system, it was for 100MWh of storage.
If it could output at the 500MW needed for buffering wind power, that only lasts 12 minutes.
Estimates based on previous Tesla installations, such as Analitik’s above, it seems the discharge time is not fixed but it has not varied much from 4 hours regardless of the install size. Well 100MWh over 4h is a 25MW output which is barely 5% of SA’s average wind farm generation (assuming a 30% CF).
I just didn’t realise how small 100MWh is in the scheme of things until I looked at what power level it was trying to buffer against. It’s small compared to wind power, and tiny compared to the reliable power. Even the 300MWh size mentioned by Tesla on Thursday would still be undersized for what it is trying to buffer, and it would cost at least US$75 million (AU$100M).
The Atlassian billionaire seems to have made the same mistake I did, which was to assume this Tesla teaser would do no harm and would probably make an improvement to grid reliability, but without checking the scale of the difference it would actually make. Instead for AU$300 million they might get something actually useful, as a quick fix for as long as it lasts, and one doesn’t know how long that will be. By some estimates that would depreciate at $37 million dollars per year. Pumped hydro would be far more capital efficient.
Rather than celebrated, in hindsight Musk’s offer should have been mocked as a useless token gesture.
150
Crikey . . . only 12 minutes.
My bedside digital alarm clock lasts longer than that..
70
To give some perspective to the quantity of energy represented by 100 MWh, consider that it is enough to operate a mid-sized cruise ship (seventy thousand tonnes) for an hour.
40
The battery in Fairbanks, Alaska, is 40MW, used for grid backup until they get the diesels up and running. Cost $41million, weights 1,300 tons and will run the grid for a maximum of 15 minutes.
Fairbanks has a population of 32,500.
50
Musk says 100mwh storage for $30m. Solve problem!! Hmmm.
Say state usage is 1500mw. By 24 hrs equals 36000mwh!
Thus 100mwh is 1/360 of a days worth. Four minutes!
We are rooned!
Phi
20
We Didn’t Listen!
Prof. Terry Hughes, April 19, 2016, twits: “I showed the results of aerial surveys of #bleaching on the #GreatBarrierReef to my students, And then we wept.”
Prof. Terry Hughes, March 10, 2017, twits: “Tragically, I have to redo my aerial survey, starting on Wednesday. Is nobody listening?”
Certainly not planet saver Terry.
Prepare for more weeping …
CSIRO: “A return flight from Sydney to Perth per-person emits about one tonne of CO2, of which 400 kg will still remain in the atmosphere after 100 years, and about 200 kg will still be airborne in 1,000 years.”
80
So 1,000kg today. 400kg in 100 year. 200kg in 1000 years. Ridiculous! This from the CSIRO? Can you please give a reference?
We know from the unintended doubling of C14 in 1965 that CO2 decays with a pure exponential, a single huge sink.
We also know exactly the half life for reabsorption of CO2 into the ocean is 14 years. This is scientific fact, indisputable.
So the calculations are
2^7 is 256, so the amount left after 100 years is 4kg.
After 100 years is 2^-72 or 4×10-22 or 4×10-19kg or 0.0000000000000000004 grams
Why are we paying these people? What are the qualifications of the author of this nonsense? The ‘problem solvers’ are the problem.
161
Sorry, you gave a link to the Conversation. In there I found
Pep Canadell
Executive director of Global Carbon Project, and Research Scientist, CSIRO
Dr. Josep (Pep) Canadell
email pep.canadell@csiro.au
Ph.D. Biology (Terrestrial ecology)
1995 University Autonomous of Barcelona, Spain
Current Position: Executive Director Global Carbon Project and CSIRO Research Scientist
Education: B.S. Biology (Biology) 1984 University A. of Barcelona, Spain
M.S. Biology (Terrestrial ecology) 1988 University A. of Barcelona, Spain
Ph.D. Biology (Terrestrial ecology) 1995 University A. of Barcelona, Spain
I will write to him and ask him to justify this wrong ‘science’. If you are going to speak as an expert on Biology, it is important to get your physics right. CO2 levels are not a matter of Biology.
161
I have just written to Dr. Canadell asking for an explanation. I can only assume he is a biologist who believes what he is told about such matters. However as our employee at the CSIRO and Executive Director Global Carbon Project and CSIRO Research Scientist, we have the right to ask the question. We are paying for his expertise.
140
Director Global Carbon Project.
Appears to be another Climate Council, except this one is sponsored by our taxation through the CSIRO. The logo for our giant science organization which gobbles $1Bn a year on essential problem solving research is proudly displayed.
So I expect an answer. You and I paid for this statement of fact on the Conversation. The problem is that it is wrong.
140
Onya TdeF,
I wonder if it’s worth sending a copy to Malcolm Roberts.
Also, presuming Dr. Canadell concedes, he should also retract or amend the article at The Conversation.
After all, our ever generous public providing the funding are paying for that too.
110
Done. I have also copied the email which I sent to Dr. Canadell.
We have to keep Hazelwood going. While the Greens think blackouts are great and others want to suffer to teach some sense, I am angry that we are about to go through this awful learning experience simply because our politicians on both sides are too pig headed to listen to sense. Each side is just trying to snag the Green votes by damaging their own electorates on the belief that the public has nowhere else to go, now that Malcolm’s Green Liberals are the only alternative to Shorten’s Green Labor.
100
MOD ALERT
Interviewer: And which of the leaders of the 2 major parties would make the best Prime Minister?
Man in street: Rin Tin Tin.
Interviewer: But he’s dead, long dead.
Man in street: So he doesn’t move and stinks to high heaven. Combines the major properties of both leaders.
80
Sorry, the second one should be 1,000 years.
40
Prof Terry Hughes
Hughes was awarded a PhD in Ecology and Evolution from The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, USA, in 1984, for his groundbreaking research on coral life histories,phase-shifts and the resilience of Caribbean coral reefs.
I have not read his thesis, but I have always had a problem with people who get a science PhD simply for observation. So PhD’s like Tim Flannery’s in prehistoric kangaroos worry me when the recipient then becomes an expert on Nuclear reactors, Meteorology, Computer modelling, chemistry, engineering and technology? He even suggested that we all invest in the SA Hot Rocks project (the Australian government put in $93million of your money) because Reputed Scientists Flannery said ‘the technology was straightforward’. We lost the lot while the directors took home $400K salaries.
Now we have someone who claims to know coral bleaching is caused by mankind, when we are quite new to this country and the reefs have been around for thousands of years and survived and prospered though periods hot and cold. Now it is our fault? Ludicrous science. You have to ask if someone is just making this up?
100
WA election has seen Labor win comfortably, it was called within 90 minutes of polls closing .
God help our fellow sandgropers .
71
How long will Turnbull last now ? I’m not an Aussie and I realise this is “just” WA but the knives must be out soon.
50
Can one interpret our author’s post as: Back (Willie) Soon?
30
I guess to back him he must be standing in something.
10
Respected scientists deny CO2 is responsible for Antarctic climate change and put in all down to natural variables.
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V20/mar/a4.php
60
We need more “resounding no”.
40
Watts is running a story that the G20 will backslide on the Paris agreement, here is Josh with the green blob.
https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/josh-green-blob-paris.jpg
70
Apart from having laws that people agree to follow, having access to cheap and reliable energy is a fundamental component of modern industrial civilisation.
Without the latter, the former will soon disappear as well.
Australia’s cheap and reliable power production is being systematically and deliberately destroyed. I believe the objective is to achieve deindustrialisation as per UN Agenda 2030 but also wealthy Leftist Elites are also profitting greatly from selling their dirty, unreliable and expensive electricity.
If we get over this crisis (and the other big one relating to the followers of a certain seventh century psychopathic warlord) we need to have Nuremberg-style trials to try all those politicians, public serpents, elites and other assorted low lives who created this mess.
I am not confident, however that Western Civilisation can be saved, even with Trump at the helm, although he is the only one that has a slight chance of doing anything.
Sorry – feeling pessimistic, especially after the Leftists have now taken WA. An appalling election outcome.
71
A new paper definitely points to a cosmic impact as the cause of the Younger Dryas.
http://www.thegwpf.com/was-the-younger-dryas-cooling-event-caused-by-cosmic-impact-after-all/
30
If there was actually an impact and not an atmospheric burnup of small comet fragments, and that impact can’t be found because it hit the an ice sheet, surely the platinum can still be found where the ice eventually deposited the debris?
The Laurentide ice sheet is the nearest one to the Clovis and had already significantly contracted by that time, covering only northern Canada.
The ice sheet flowed glacially to the edge of the Atlantic and the Arctic ocean, so they should be able to do drilling in the silt on the edge of the continental shelf of northeast Canada and find an enhanced platinum layer there around 12700BP to 12500BP. Possibly there is also some Pt in the 20,000 year old ice that still remains on Baffin Island.
And if not there, plenty of other places that the Pt should have been found, notably Greenland. It does not seem credible that this is in Greenland ice cores and nobody has noticed it before, unless everyone had their mass spectrometers tuned for oxygen only and nobody was actually looking for anything heavier.
50
If the asteroid remained intact all of humanity would have been exterminated and not just the Clovis, which poses many philosophical questions.
A case could also be made that the damper on Holocene temperatures for more than a thousand years may have helped to cultivate civilisation.
30
Total extermination? How do you know that? A glancing blow on an ice sheet could just throw up a few million tonnes of water which would precipitate out quickly. No biggie for Europe or Africa.
A small asteroid is more likely than a comet if it was conveying Pt, as it would have to be a rocky body rather than a methane/water ice chunk, possibly any dust from the asteroid body was rained out too by being wet from the get-go.
Also, a global climate change should have affected other peoples living at similar latitudes. e.g. the Lascaux cave drawings in France are at least 16000 years old, so humans could also be in that area in 12700BP and that is the same latitude as the Great Lakes, the ice sheet was well north of that, and more north than any Clovis remains. Don’t know if les Gauls ancient were affected too but its another thing to test.
20
‘Total extermination? How do you know that?’
Don’t know, just guessing.
‘He says the K-Pg dinosaur extinction was the result of a very large asteroid impact while the Younger-Dryas onset impact is likely the result of being hit by fragments of a much smaller sized comet or asteroid, possibly measuring up to two-thirds a mile in diameter.’
It strikes me that a sharp drop in temperatures over 1,400 years must have had a universal impact, so I’ll see how the Australians faired.
20
The destruction of Western Civilisation is a UN plan colloquially known as Agenda 2030.
Agenda 2030 https://youtu.be/zMj6BQ00BbM
Main points that are embodied in the UN Agenda 2030.
https://youtu.be/zfMxsrcr1D0
The overall idea being promoted to destroy societal values is Cultural Marxism.
https://youtu.be/G8pPbrbJJQs
71
Scary stuff. Unfortunately the commentator has a voice like Randall in the hilarious Honey Badger.
20
Only got 2:44 into that Cultural Marxism video before I realised it was a pack of half-baked propaganda.
They tried to tell me Feminism is an offshoot of 1930s Critical Theory.
That is, to put it mildly, ahistorical.
How much of a misogynist do you have be to tar first wave Feminists with the same broad brush as social justice warriors and the political correctness brigade?
They probably even believe the USSR was socialist!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsC0q3CO6lM
42
Why do we allow the Leftist Elites to call fossil and nuclear generation dirty?
From an electrical and electronics point of view it is clean power because it gives a steady pure sine wave output.
The highly variable output of solar and wind is dirty in electrical and electronics jargon because it is not constant.
91
This was the great battle between Tesla and Edison. Tesla for AC and Edison for DC. Tesla won as AC can be transformed up and down for long distance transmission. However Edison was right, connecting multiple AC sources is a nightmare. With those sine wages you have to match waveform frequency and amplitude and phase perfectly for all time or there is a dead short. No drift, ever.
That is why windmills need an absolutely constant AC source and take hours to connect. You can disconnect instantly but then the whole system will down for a long time. With a lead conductor from a huge inertia generator, pun intended, grids are near impossible to setup. So when Hazelwood goes off line and the interconnector from Victoria fail to supply, SA is in even more trouble. To make matters worse systems respond to load and phase changes occur. That is why you must have a single big inertia generator or the windmills would blow each other up in an instant.
Solar and windmills and National grid distribution are near incompatible, as Edison pointed out 150 years ago. In a country as big as Australia, we have a real problem connecting thousands of intermittent and highly variable AC sources.
150
Sorry, my proof reader has gone on holidays. Without a lead conductor..
70
My typing has reached a new low. Sine waves, not sine wages.
80
Walmart has sine wages. They peak prior to Christmas! Different holidays. 🙂
80
Edison once electrocuted a circus elephant to demonstrate how dangerous the Westinghouse AC technology was. The elephant was called Topsy and was to be killed anyway as it had become aggressive. The electrocution is quite horrific and the video is on YouTube.
40
Yes, it shows the mindset and relation to animals was very different then. A savage act to our modern sensitivities but I guess Edison was right. Millions of people have died too from electrocution and AC kills. However US AC is actually much safer at 110 volts and 60 Hz. The 50hz we use in Australia is actually far more dangerous as it corresponds more closely to our own nervous system frequency and can shut down our heart more easily. So perhaps Topsy did not die for nothing and saved a lot of lives?
50
However I suspect the decision to go to 60hz was more to do with the 60 second minute and the US love of the Imperial duodecimal system. I doubt that Tesla was aware of the biophyics behind electrocution, but either way the US ended up with a slightly safer lower voltage AC system and much bigger cables and plugs on washing machines.
61
For washing machines and other heavy appliances they have dedicated 220V power outlets. I’m not sure where this power comes from though. Is there a dedicated pole transformer to supply the voltage?
http://www.askmediy.com/220-volt-plugs-receptacles-configurations/
30
“dedicated 220V power outlets”
In the USA most residential power is 217V 60Hz at the meter! This is opposing polarity (nominal) 110V 60Hz with respect to earth (ground). 30V at 24Hz is most deadly! 400Hz would reduce the size of transformers (aircraft) and lethality, but increases EMR losses from transmission lines. None of this is ‘science’, but instead, ‘learning to survive’! What to not do when older sibling says ‘go touch that’.
61
My house in Newtown.PA, has 3 wires coming in, 2 phases + neutral. There is 220v between phases and 110v from phase to neutral. The washing machine, dish washer, clothes dryer, and stove-oven are 220v and everything else is 110v. The dryer and stove are hard wired back to the switch board. The dish washer and washing machine have 220v outlets on the wall.
40
Will and Chris say there are two phases and 220 volts between the phases. I had never heard of this, but it would double the voltage and halve the current while each phase is still only 110 volts. When I had a place in Colarado, the cables and plugs were enormous. This two phase input is news to me. The must be 180 out of phase. It means three wire cabling.
Our Australia electricity is 240volt RMS average single phase to ground and for industry we also have industrial three phase 415volts to ground. In our single phase domestic supply we also have three wires, but we have both ground and neutral. The ground is universal for safety, because of the risk of electrocution. In the US they tend to rely more on total isolation.
30
From an electrocution point of view though, the two phase US supply is still only 110volts to ground, so the conclusion is the same. Far safer, which is perhaps why we have the extra earth wire which hopefully never carries current.
10
TdeF, Australia’s real voltage is now officially 230V with enough tolerance such that it is really still 240V.
There is some 8 year old discussion here:
http://www.electricalsolutions.net.au/content/business-and-management/article/is-it-time-to-genuinely-adopt-23-v-as-our-distribution-voltage–25053451
30
TdeF, There are 3 Phases out in the street plus the neutral. The neutral, which is bonded to ground, is connected to the ‘star’ point in the local transformer, in the street. There are 220 volts between phases which are 120 degrees out of phase. The 220 volts is derived from the sum of vectors of the voltage of each phase respect to the neutral point.
So, with 3 wires coming into the house, 2 phases + neutral, I get 110v from Phase to neutral and 220 volts between the 2 phases 120 degrees out of phase.
Transformers in the street are usually wired in Delta in the primary windings and Star in the secondary. Saves on copper between transformers as only 3 wires are needed rather than 4.
50
The transformers that service residential customers have a centre tap.
Three conductors from the transformer feed the distribution panel.
Each of them are attached to a vertical buss.
115 V circuits terminate from either the left or right buss and and the centre bus.
230 V circuits terminate at the left buss and the right buss.
When installed correctly, loads are arranged so that under normal circumstances the left and right buss are loaded equally.
Typically a 230V circuit is protected at 30 A by two adjacent breakers tied together so that if one trips they both trip.
20
TdeF, The reason we have the ‘MEN’ (Main, Neutral, Earth) system in Australia, is to protect the system if there is a short between Primary and Secondary windings in the street Transformer.
Actually, personal safety would be better if we did not have that MEN system, as you would have to grab both wires to get a shock. As it is now, you only have to be in contact with the active wire and be standing on the ground to get a shock. But the system protects equipment from severe over-voltage if there is a short in the street transformer. 33kv in your electric jug is no so good !
Without the MEN, it is like you are ‘Double insulated’.
.
30
Yes, and as abhorrent as that spectacle must have been, it’s probably true.
Of course, in the bubble mind of the Green planet savers, Topsy is the ‘social cost of carbon’ and no consideration of the saved / improved lives is warranted.
30
Gas prices are ever-increasing, with some businesses wondering where the future lies, with gas prices increasing 30% in 1 year.
Meanwhile, Floating LNG processing technology is no longer economically viable
As with all cutting edge technology and engineering projects, FLNG technology is not cheap, but still, one has to wonder why no one has asked difficult questions about the contrast in price behaviour at opposite ends of the same market.
40
Interesting. Gas is used directly in many businesses, so it is unaffected by the RET (Electricity) act and should not attract Certificates which triple the cost of gas. However a major use is electricity generation where like coal it is a ‘fossil fuel’ and requires Carbon certificates (LGCs) at $89 each Mwhr. So the gas and coal are all going overseas, exposing us to international competition and pushing up prices. Now the State governments get billions in Royalties for gas and coal, so they don’t care where it goes, but the people of Australia who own the gas and coal do care.
We are in a new age where ‘governments’ act totally in their own self interest, profiting and profiteering from our resources and charging everyone for them when we the people have to pay international rates for our gas and petrol products, even though we own them. This happened in the 1970s when we could not afford petrol even though all of our petrol was made in Australia from Australian oil. Few Australians know we were self sufficient in petrol for the 20th century because we paid OPEC or Singapore prices, mostly taxation.
In this new world, the interests of the government, the politicians and the public servants who run them are paramount. We are being taxed to pay for our overstuffed governments and public servants on million dollar salaries.
Why else do we pay world prices for gas and electricity as if we had none? Why are potters such as this finding it impossible to buy our own gas? This is marxist governments controlling the means of production, to their own advantage and wages growth in the public service is outstripping that in the private sector. This is all wrong, public self service, starting with greedy politicians who see getting a seat in parliament as winning the lottery.
100
I think holding up Nicolai Ceacescu as sterlung example if where it could all lead fir them , is a pragmatic point to push to such govts…
20
I believe we are basically giving away LNG for 1c per litre on ridiculously long 50 year contracts.
20
I understand that with the NW Shelf – Gorgon gas Field & the developments for liquefaction for Darwin there is a massive source of LNG available.
Further, particularly in the case of Darwin, there must be infrastructure, energy & water sources, a workforce & engineering support available.
How is it that for a country such as Australia which has LNG capacity that we have not made the development conditional on some sort of ancillary Middle Distillate Synthesis capacity.
I believe Shell( RDS ) has a proprietary technique SMDS.
At present we import most if not all of our liquid fuels as finished product & I guess
it constitutes a major component of our balance of payments.
That is a bolt on solution but with the potential of Coal – Gas – Liquid as outlined by Richard Courtenay on this site re LSE [ November 26 2010] I cannot for the life of me understand why our politicians of any brand are so hell bent on denying this country energy security.
00
Because all of our politicians are as dumb as a box of rocks. Did anyone see the headline on the Telegraph last week … Send in the Clowns.
00
If Jo did not mind, this blog could be used for a neat type of crowd sourcing to give several independent answers to a stated problem. Here is an example.
It has long been said that a typical relocation of a weather station from a town post office to an airport will produce a break point in the temperature time series. Some say that part of a beak could be caused by the burning of aviation fuel at the airport, heating the air around the thermometer/screen.
Question: Is enough fuel burned to raise the temperature by a measurable amount?
Crowd sourcing exercise. Select a large airport near you. Assign it an area, which might coincide with its perimeter as shown on Google Maps. Assign a selection of heights above ground, say 1, 2, 5, 10, 50 metres to give several volumes of air that we will examine for heating, assuming each volume to be well mixed.
Discover approximately how what weight of aviation fuel is burned in a day or in some other chosen period, like the peak couple of hours of aircraft movements. Remember that the taxi process is fuel hungry. Remember that we are looking at ball park figures to get a feel for the maximum heating we can expect.
Use a figure for the heat of combustion of that weight of fuel and distribute that heat over the chosen air volume. State if, in your opinion, there is a temperature change big enough to shift a thermometer up, using a cut off for calculations of (say) 0.05 °C.
If several readers here did this and the conclusions were similar, it could save a lot of speculation and write off a number of past assertions about the size of step changes when screens were relocated. That seems like an efficient idea to me.
(Personal note: I started to gather data to do this but was hospitalised and so have neither the mood nor the opportunity to complete it for now. Please, several of you erudite mathematicians take it over and give us a good demo of this crowd resourcing exercise so we might consider it for more questions. It is not so easy to get fuel burn figures for airport ground movements because there are recent heavy security blankets, but take that as a personal challenge to your Web search abilities. The info is out there, I have seen some, so do go fetch.)
Thanks Geoff.
20
No, I’ll muddy the waters further. 🙂
Hot air rises. How is the jet exhaust, hotter than ambient air, going to stay at ground level long enough to heat the whole layer the weather station sits in?
Even if it could, this relies on zero wind, otherwise the gentlest zephyr would blow that warm air away.
Then it also depends on whether the weather station has min/max thermometers or just a simple instantaneous thermometer read at the two traditional synoptic times of day. The max slider of the min/max is affected by a single shot of jet exhaust, but a simple thermometer could not be.
The tarmac material is the most obvious source of heat contamination, surely greater than even focussed jet exhaust.
20
I thought the problem was the introduction of Pt resistance thermometers which have a much faster reaction to changes, hence a puff of warm air e.g. a blast from a taxiing aeroplane would cause a 5 second jump, but that would be recorded as the new maximum.
I might add that having used Pt resistance thermometers for 15 years I am less than convinced about the accuracy between different meters. Too many people think a digital read out must be accurate. The same with glass thermometers. For accuracy you need calibrated ones which are selected for accuracy at various temperatures and come with a certificate listing the error at various intermediate temperatures as well as the top and bottom of the range. The trouble is variation in the width of the bore (holding the mercury). Ordinary thermometers can be a problem. I once ‘calibrated’ 10 thermometers from the same packet, all were quite accurate at 0℃ and 100℃ because those are checked and the rest of the marks are just equidistant rulings. We wanted them accurate at 25℃ and only 1 was spot on. From memory only 4 others fitted into ±0.2℃. One was out by -1.3℃.
40
I can recall record high temperatures recorded on two occasions at Heathrow about 18 months ago.
Each occurrence lasted for about 5 seconds.
So if you reckon that was the weather, I’ll go hee.
90
10 Mar: Fox News: Another taxpayer-funded energy company files for bankruptcy
By Jennifer G. Hickey
A cutting-edge battery maker that received millions from taxpayers has become the latest government-backed energy firm to file for bankruptcy – reviving the controversy over how stimulus dollars were spent under the last administration.
Seven years after Aquion Energy received a $5.2 million stimulus-tied grant from the federal government, the Pennsylvania company on Wednesday filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy…
The company, which is now seeking a buyer, produces batteries to store solar and renewable energy. It had been touted as a rising star in the energy storage business, even attracting investment from Microsoft founder Bill Gates and millions more in state funding…
Critics say Aquion’s fate is further evidence the government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers.
“Who thinks the Department of Energy has the expertise to predict which companies will succeed for fail in the marketplace, particularly in an industry that is not only dependent upon government subsidies, but is highly unpredictable?” said William Yeatman, a senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute…
The company grew out of the work of Jay Whitacre, an engineering professor at Carnegie Mellon University…
Days before the company filed for Chapter 11, Whitacre was named the new director of the Wilton E. Scott Institute for Energy Innovation at Carnegie Mellon…
According to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Aquion raised about $190 million from investors, including from Ray Lane, a former president of Oracle…
“Let’s remember that the need for energy storage systems is strictly a consequence of the intermittency of renewable energy sources like solar and wind,” Yeatman said. “… These companies benefit from the grants and indirectly from the inefficiencies of an industry that exists by the grace of political favoritism.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/10/another-taxpayer-funded-energy-company-files-for-bankruptcy.html
80
If Bill Gates was prepared to invest in this company why did it need a government grant in the first place?
70
What has happened to science and engineering education that we are getting so many of these “professionals” failing to apply the scientific method, who don’t understand basic scientific facts and who believe wind, solar and batteries are a valid engineering solution to a problem that doesn’t exist?
60
I have arguments with “corporates” at work who make little effort to understand technical things. It irks nany technical people non- technical people dont bother to understand stuff that impacts them. As such i have threatened to resort tobuseibf emoticons in all reports so dim witted corporate types might understand such matters as you can imagine it didnt go well but i made my point, short of yelling at such types. Its the same frustration and irony that people who love expensive performance cars see such vehicles driven by wealthy people who cant drive for nuts and buy them as an investment only…
30
woke up to this horror interview on ABC news radio today, but can only find part of it here. on ABC, SHY was asked if she had talked to Musk following her ***”let’s talk!” tweet, but she avoided giving a direct answer, while kind of implying she had by claiming phone calls took place.
more was said about batteries not getting the breaks coal gets, but will have to find a link to the full interview later:
VIDEO: 1min52secs: MSN: FROM ABC: Sarah Hanson-Young: Billionaire technology entrepreneur Elon Musk says he’s serious about using his company’s battery storage…
In a twitter exchange, Elon Musk said his company Tesla would install a battery farm capable of “fixing” South Australia’s electricity system within 100 days, or they’d do it for free. Green’s Senator Sarah Hanson-Young tweeted back ***”let’s talk!”
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/billionaire-technology-entrepreneur-elon-musk-says-hes-serious-about-using-his-companys-battery-storage-technology-to-solve-south-australias-electricity-issues/vp-AAo7Rap
11 Mar: SBS: AAP: SA urged to look at ‘exciting’ Tesla pitch
Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young says she is in talks with those involved in the proposal, and believes battery technology would be the game-changer South Australia needs to solve its energy woes.
“He has thrown down the gauntlet here – I can’t see what there is to lose,” she told ABC TV on Saturday.
“I think it is a very, very exciting prospect and I’ve been on the phone and on the emails this morning, trying to work out how we can deliver that here in South Australia.”
South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill has confirmed on Twitter he’s looking at the proposal.
“Already reached out looking forward to our discussion,” he wrote.
Senator Hanson-Young said the technology would allow the state to bank renewable energy during the day, for use at night.
The reason it hasn’t already been used is because market rules make battery storage options uncompetitive, she said.
“We need to get those rules changed,” Senator Hanson-Young said.
“If we can find the political will to do that, if people really want to fix the energy crisis, they want to reduce people’s power bills, fixing those rules, letting batteries play a huge role will significantly go to solving this problem.”…
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/03/11/sa-urged-look-exciting-tesla-pitch
40
No, replacing the govt would be a game changer. Any time a Greens pollie thinks something is a good idea i get worried.
70
I think SHY knows all about this battery technology she used to watch Dr Who.
After all, she learned all about border protection by watching Sea Patrol – and told a Senate Enquiry just that.
70
https://youtu.be/moJ7j86MyWw
10
Australia might not yet be a third world nation because you can still drink the water but our “leadership” is certainly at the low level of the worst of the third world nations.
81
the full horror:
Facebook: Senator Sarah Hanson-Young
VIDEO: 10mins34secs: ABC24: Tesla boss Elon Musk’s offer to South Australia is the game changer we need.
Battery storage is the missing link in our renewables revolution
https://www.facebook.com/Senator.Sarah.Hanson.Young/videos/1367789276577896/
40
Apparently it works for her torches.
50
Concerning the proposed Tesla battery farm in SA, how many MWh of capacity would it have?
I am guessing it would need to backup the whole grid for the possibility of 5-10 days without wind and no surplus power to import from elsewhere as baseload generation is being decommissioned elsewhere (e.g. Hazelwood).
That’s a monstrous battery pack.
And what subsidies would it attract and how exactly would it make money?
41
That’s not how it works David, it takes power from the lows when electricity is cheap then powers the peaks when electricity is potentially $14,000 per kwh, as the savings become apparent more battery storage will be installed.
210
Tesla claim he can build a 100mwh battery system in 100 days, this will solve all of SA power problems, and if it doesn’t we get our money back……..I I’ve far funnier jokes than this one
80
A large aircraft engine is about 75,000 horsepower, or about 56 MW. So run the engine for 2 hours, and you have the equivalent of 100 MWh battery system as proposed for SA.
An A380 Airbus has four of those engines so supplies over 200 MW, (equal to one generator at Hazelwood) and with a fuel capacity of 320,000 litres can fly for over 14 hours.
So hook up an A380’s four engines at Adelaide airport and it will provide back up power of 3000 MWh.
00
So Willard you’re the expert ! How much battery backup do SA need to cover for a 12 hour blackout and what would it cost ?
Peak prices of $14,000 hey , what was the peak price before SA got rid of coal fired and introduced wind powered generation .
100
“That’s not how it works David”
Willard are you trying to say battery backup isn’t backup ? It’s just to make electrons cheaper at peak times ?
30
100 MWH battery storage costing $33.2 Million
51
That’s just to buy materials, shipping, taxes and installation are on top of that
60
None . . at least in my eyes.
Batteries aren’t a source of energy, therefore should not be eligible for the RET, for instance.
I’d suggest they just install the battery system and send the bill to the wind operators.
This is how Donald Trump would do it . . you know, build the wall and have Mexico pay for it. 😉
60
Raven this makes a lot of sense , require renewables to be reliables with a target efficiency the same as fossil fuel generation .
80
At 9PM on Friday night, Unit 2 at Hazelwood went offline. I suspect that as the plant is closing at the end of the Month, they won’t bother fixing it, so that means that’s it for that Unit, so now Hazelwood only has seven of its eight Units operational.
It’s amazing that old clunker can still manage even that.
Even so, with just seven units running, it still delivered more power yesterday than every wind plant in Australia, and after ten day I have been watching now, it’s delivered 18% more power than every wind plant in Australia, and wind is almost running at its average Capacity Factor. As for Victoria, all the power delivered from that State’s wind plants is around the same as being delivered from just two of Hazelwood’s (now) seven Units.
Only 18 days left to get blood out of that ancient stone.
Hazelwood Power Plant Closing 31st March – Currently Delivering More Power Than Every Wind Plant In Australia
Tony.
250
TonyfromOz –
feels a bit like losing an arm. tragic.
70
It is a toss up to see who can do the most damage to mankind, Daniel Andrews or IS.
121
At 11.10am on Monday:
Vic is supplying 570 MW to SA, half of SA’s demand, almost half of Tas demand while sending another 400 MW to NSW.
Ah, coal, it’s reliable and efficient and affordable.
20
During the last week, has anybody else noticed that “gas” is now being promoted as the reason renewables are so unreliable and electricity so expensive?
FGS. Gas is not the problem. It is the dipsticks in government!
They (the government) need to forget all this RET, CCS, subsidy cr-p. Get wind & solar off the grid. De-fund the 97% government grant-dependent activist scientists. Privatise the ABC.
Then they need to build 2 or 3 brand spanking new coal fired power stations (without CCS).
I know this is only a dream, but “if you never dream, your dreams will never come true”.
200
Especially when your dream clashes with the dreams of the politician master race for a new world order and socialism to bring capitalism as we have known it to an end, a new Communist China style world regime with controlled and managed capitalist activities.
70
Hat Rack:
The Greens think that if they wish hard enough then their dreams will happen. It doesn’t work when physical and chemical laws are involved but they don’t know these so keep dreaming.
60
Energy crisis: Wholesale power prices have doubled since the carbon tax was axed!
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/energy-crisis-wholesale-power-prices-have-doubled-since-the-carbon-tax-was-axed-20170308-gutf8t.html
Wait. What?
So, the carbon tax has increased from $1 to $2:
“KEVIN RUDD: In terms of the whole economy what the modelling from MMA demonstrates is that the total impact on the economy will be marginal over time. That is that they calculate that between now and about 2045 that you’d be looking at a total impact on the economy of somewhere between $600 and $800 million or something in the vicinity of $45 per person over that period of time or something like $1 per person per year.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2076131.htm
Whoa! Wait. What?
Kevin Rudd’s emissions trading scheme: $1 a day to save planet
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive/business-old/a-dollar-a-day-to-save-the-planet/news-story/0c5735a3f4e702c9d7dd2264658c4758
$365 to $730?
When will the carbon (sic) tax prevent it’s first drought?
50
Another energy storage company just ran out of taxpayer money, and has visited the bankruptcy court.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/10/another-taxpayer-funded-energy-company-files-for-bankruptcy.html
Many more will follow soon I think!
40
Two years later, Aquion Energy received $16.6 million in funds from the state of Pennsylvania, including two alternative clean energy loans totaling $5 million, to develop.
As part of the agreement, Aquion committed to create 341 new jobs and retain 70 existing employees, according to Heidi Havens, communications director for Pennsylvania’s Department of Community and Economic Development (DCED).
In February 2016, the company requested a two-year extension to create the jobs promised. At that time, only 50 jobs had been created.
The Westmoreland facility has since halted operations.
“This announcement is a reminder of the critical need to ensure that taxpayer dollars for economic development projects are spent appropriately and that intended outcomes are met,” Havens said in an email to Fox News.
“Let’s remember that the need for energy storage systems is strictly a consequence of the intermittency of renewable energy sources like solar and wind,” Yeatman said. “… These companies benefit from the grants and indirectly from the inefficiencies of an industry that exists by the grace of political favoritism.”
90
“Children won’t know what snow is”.
7:15 PM EST Saturday 11 March 2017Special weather statement in effect for:
City of Toronto
Major winter storm threatens Southern Ontario early next week.
As if to remind us that spring has not officially begun yet, Mother Nature is gearing up for a significant winter storm. A developing low pressure centre currently over the Northwestern United States will track just south of the Great Lakes on Monday and Monday night.
Snow is forecast to spread into Southwestern Ontario during the day Monday then envelop much of Southern Ontario Monday night through Tuesday. Cold Arctic air already in place over the Great Lakes will ensure it will be a dry fluffier snow, creating some blowing snow issues as winds pick up during the storm.
Total snowfall amounts of 15 to 25 centimetres are likely with enhanced amounts closer to 30 centimetres possible in the Hamilton to Niagara corridor, due to added moisture from Lake Ontario. Snowfall amounts will likely be appreciably less farther north towards Georgian Bay or into parts of Eastern Ontario. The snow should taper off Tuesday night in most areas.
This snowstorm has the potential to significantly affect travel due to accumulating snow and blowing snow resulting in hazardous winter driving conditions.
Winter storm watches and warnings will likely be issued in due course, as the storm track and amounts become more certain.
Please continue to monitor alerts and forecasts issued by Environment Canada. To report severe weather, send an email to ec.cpio-tempetes-ospc-storms.ec@canada.ca or tweet reports using #ONStorm.
http://weather.gc.ca/warnings/report_e.html?on61#2020417442066773243201703110503ws1171cwto
Greatest snowfall for March 13 (1938-2013)
8.6cm 1963
41
I hate the “dry fluffier” stuff. It tickles my nose and gets in my ears.
31
From just across the lake.
URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGENational Weather Service Buffalo NY
1016 PM EST Sat Mar 11 2017
NYZ006>008-121130-
/O.CON.KBUF.WC.Y.0003.170312T0600Z-170312T1200Z/
/O.CON.KBUF.WS.A.0003.170314T0400Z-170316T0000Z/
Oswego-Jefferson-Lewis-
Including the cities of Oswego, Watertown, and Lowville
1016 PM EST Sat Mar 11 2017
...WIND CHILL ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 8 AM EDT SUNDAY...
...WINTER STORM WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM LATE MONDAY NIGHT
THROUGH WEDNESDAY EVENING...
* LOCATIONS...Oswego...Jefferson and Lewis counties.
* TIMING...The Wind Chill Advisory is in effect from overnight
tonight through early Sunday morning. The Winter Storm Watch
is in effect from late Monday evening through early Wednesday
evening.
* WINDS...North 10 to 20 mph.
* WIND CHILL VALUES...As low as 20 below.
* IMPACTS...The combination of gusty winds and cold temperatures
overnight will bring dangerously cold conditions for exposed
skin. Frostbite could occur with less then 30 minutes of
exposure. Heavy snow and blowing snow could produce very
difficult driving conditions with very poor visibility and
deep snow cover on roads Monday night through Wednesday
evening.
* HAZARDS...Heavy snow.
* ACCUMULATIONS...7 to 14 inches are possible.
* VISIBILITIES...As low as a half mile at times.
* FORECASTER CONFIDENCE...Medium concerning the watch due
uncertainty in the exact track of the storm system.
PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...
A Wind Chill Advisory is issued when strong wind will combine
with cold temperatures to create dangerously cold conditions for
exposed skin. The wind will make it feel like it is 15 degrees
below zero or colder for a period of several hours. If you will
be outdoors use common sense and dress warmly...making sure that
all exposed skin is covered. If possible...avoid prolonged
exposure to the cold to prevent frostbite and hypothermia.
A Winter Storm Watch means that heavy snow and/or ice
accumulations are possible. If you are within the watch area...
remain alert to rapidly changing weather conditions.
http://www.weather.gov/wwamap/wwatxtget.php?cwa=buf&wwa=all
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Reuters wrote a nothing Brief on 8 Mar.
following also appeared on that date in regional newspaper…still hyping the already overhyped Aquion:
8 Mar: Pittsburgh Post Gazette: Daniel Moore: Hyped battery maker Aquion Energy files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy
It has laid off about 80 percent of its personnel, keeping only a core research and development team…
Aquion Energy had been spun out from Carnegie Mellon University in 2009 by Jay Whitacre, a CMU professor of materials science and engineering, attracting funding from venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers…
Batteries like Aquion’s are considered the “holy grail” for widespread renewable energy development because they can store large amounts of energy for use during times when it is not easily produced — such as when the sun is not shining or when the wind is not blowing.
Aquion received many awards from energy and technology trade groups, and frequently shared its progress and thoughts on the battery market.
It was listed as one of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Top 100 Smartest Companies in 2015 and 2016, as well as picking up an award in 2015 from a German organization supporting the energy storage industry.
Just six weeks ago, Aquion was named the 2016 North American Company of the Year by the Global Cleantech Group, a San Francisco-based group that recognizes companies annually.
In its statement Wednesday, the company continued to tout those accolades…
Mr. Pearson wrote…that “a bankruptcy sale creates a unique opportunity for the right strategic buyer that can deploy transformative capital and synergies onto Aquion.”…
It’s unknown how many employees Aquion had before the layoffs, but in September 2014, the company said it had more than 150.
Aquion was approved to receive $16.6 million in state grants and loans from the the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development, according to the agency’s online investment tracker. It’s unclear whether the company used all of that money. The department could not be reached for comment…
Market analysts suggested the bankruptcy was not entirely surprising and that Aquion Energy deserved the praise…
“Aquion’s claim isn’t entirely incorrect — it was furthest along among the emerging storage technology cohort, with proven technological capabilities,” wrote Ravi Manghani, a Boston-based director of energy storage for GTM Research…
But he said the financial challenges of surviving in this market are “not for the faint-hearted,” requiring “huge amounts of capital” to scale up and stay relevant…
http://powersource.post-gazette.com/powersource/companies/2017/03/08/Energy-storage-company-Aquion-Energy-files-for-Chapter-11-bankruptcy-Pittsburgh-sodium-ion/stories/201703080186
however, apart from Fox News, no FakeNewsMSM is reporting the company’s failure!
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best Reuters could do? CAGW taxpayer-funded failures should be kept from the public, if possible:
8 Mar: Reuters: BRIEF-Aquion Energy files voluntary petition under Chapter 11 to target sale of assets
* Aquion Energy Inc files voluntary petition under chapter 11 to target a sale of assets
* Immediately preceding chapter 11 filing, company retrenched to a core research and development team by terminating approximately 80% of its personnel
* In coming weeks, Aquion will be working to secure a bidder to purchase substantially all of its operating assets
* Company has been unable to raise growth capital needed to continue operating as a going concern
* In coming weeks, Aquion will be working to secure a bidder to purchase substantially all of its operating assets
http://www.reuters.com/article/brief-aquion-energy-files-voluntary-peti-idUSFWN1GL0PX
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Europe’s (and Australia’s) Lesson Teaches Us: Don’t Go Green:
10 Mar: InvestorsBusinessDaily: Stephen Moore: Europe’s Lesson Teaches Us: Don’t Go Green
The Green Energy revolution around the world has turned into a Big Green meltdown with many nations sprinting away from “renewable” energy as if they were Usain Bolt.
Here are a few of the latest news flashes from Europe and Asia…
Australia, another “green energy” leader, saw its electricity prices sky-rocket this past winter.
According to an analysis by the Institute for Energy Research, power costs surged unbelievably from $100 per megawatt hour to $10,000 per megawatt hour, because of heavy dependence on its unreliable renewable energy program. The government had to reopen one of its shuttered natural gas plants to keep prices from further exploding…ETC
By the way, the U.S. Already provides subsidies to wind and solar power that are five times higher per unit of energy produced than for nuclear power and 20 times more generous than for fossil fuels, according to a 2016 American Action Forum study.
Yet wind and solar are still less than 5% of American energy output despite all the money spent. Why not just eliminate all American energy subsidies and let the free market decide…READ ALL
http://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/europes-lesson-teaches-us-dont-go-green/
Combative, Conflicting and Confusing words from NYT’s John Schwartz!
10 Mar: NYT: John Schwartz: Trump’s Climate Views: Combative, Conflicting and Confusing
This passage from Mr. Trump’s 2015 book, “Crippled America: How to Make America Great Again,” lays out the core of his argument against renewable energy. Yet mountains of scientific evidence show that climate change is real and caused largely by greenhouse gas emissions. Also, the cost of renewable energy has plummeted, sometimes beating fossil fuels on price. The International Energy Agency says that renewable sources have surpassed coal as ***the largest provider of global energy capacity…
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/climate/donald-trump-global-warming-views.html?rref=collection%2Ftimestopic%2FGlobal%20Warming&action=click&contentCollection=science®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_&_r=0
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like ABC, Fairfax will not stop the hype:
12 Mar: SMH: Harriet Alexander: NSW increases renewable energy but lags behind other states and national target
Critics warn that renewable sources of energy will have to be significantly boosted or households will face more blackouts and higher electricity prices, as early generation coal-fired electricity plants are gradually decommissioned…
The Renewable Energy Action Plan annual report for 2016 shows that NSW drew 14 per cent of its energy from renewable sources, 7 per cent from gas and 79 per cent from coal in 2015.
This compared to 10.8 per cent of energy sourced from renewables and 82.3 per cent from coal in 2014, and 12.9 per cent from renewables and 79.5 per cent from coal in 2013…
NSW was the worst performing state and South Australia was the ***best at sourcing energy from renewable sources according to a 2016 Climate Council report, which did not include the Snowy Hydro scheme in its figures..
Opposition energy, resources and industry spokesman Adam Searle said the figures indicated NSW had only grown a net 1 per cent since 2013 – or less than 10 per cent when the Snowy Hydro was excluded.”At this rate, it will take nearly 30 years to reach the 23.5 per cent target set for 2020,” Mr Searle said.
“This will expose NSW households and businesses to an energy crisis, because all our main current power sources – the coal-fired power stations that now provide around 80 per cent – will close over the next 20 years. Without replacement power, household and businesses will face sky rocketing electricity prices and supply shortfalls.”…
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-increases-renewable-energy-but-lags-behind-other-states-and-national-target-20170311-guvzg7.html
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You love weekends don’t you pat 🙂
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Crakar24 –
sure do.
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So nice to see young heifers that prance and dance with enthusiasm; rather than elders that only graze the field from continued disappointment!
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I like the bit about “critics warn that more renewables are needed” , when there’s no wind if you double the windfarms you get ?
When there’s no sun and you double the solar panels you get ?
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Does anyone know what the return on investment for windmills is or any other subsidy-farming “green” enterprise? No doubt the wealth transfer from the consumer to the “investor” is very profitable.
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Standby diesel generators in the UK ( STOR ) earn around 32% p.a. which is considered a bit more profitable than the average trough.
The burn (emission ‘free’) wood chips for heating empty barns in Northern Ireland returned ￡160 for each ￡100 spent.
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David: The Ararat Wind Farm in Victoria was recently completed with 75 turbines providing a nameplate capacity of 240 MW at a capital cost of $450 million
To provide an 8% return on that investment after costs and asset depreciation requires an income of $91/MWh of electricity sold into the National Electricity Market administered by the market operator AEMO.
However the wholesale electricity price in Victoria averaged only $46/MWh in 2016, up from $28/MWh in 2005
The Ararat Wind Farm also gets income by selling Renewable Energy Certificates under the government’s Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act 2000 with subsequent revisions. Those RECs have been selling at an average $87/MWh.
The Ararat Wind Farm can get a return on investment of about 14% per annum at the expense of electricity consumers (and essentially guaranteed by government) by receiving $133/MWh compared to the market price of $46/MWh.
Assumptions:
Average capacity factor 30%
(Production will vary from 0-240 MW depending on wind speed)
Annual electricity delivered 700 MWh
Life of the turbine towers 25 years
Question: Does the capital cost include all of the network costs to integrate into the grid?
Annual Costs:
Depreciation (to write off capital) $18 million pa
Staff costs $1 million pa
Maintenance & operating costs (2%) $9 million pa
Return on Investment (8%) $36 million pa
Total annual costs with 8% ROI $64 million pa
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Well put Robber.
Get this type of explanation of what is happening in front of the public ; but how?
The facts are that the Global warming scam has doubled prices for power which are already exorbitant because governments couldn’t or wouldn’t run a public utility honestly and “privatised” it.
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AEMO has made a submission to the Finkel inquiry into the Future Security of the National Electricity Market, as you would expect.
They are not encouraging about future price trends:
Whilst wholesale prices will fluctuate, they appear unlikely to return to the levels experienced immediately prior to 2016. Relevant matters are:
The linkage of domestic gas markets to international markets.
Closure of ageing coal-fired generators.
The predominant new supplies, being wind and solar, are unable to generate continuously. Non-intermittent generators, such as gas, are therefore still required but operate less frequently. As a result they need higher unit prices at times they are required to operate to recover costs.
Black coal and gas-fired generators reducing use of long term “take or pay” fuel contracts which have in the past seen generators periodically operating below cost.
A greater degree of market concentration resulting from the coal closures above and some mergers and acquisitions.
But they are silent on the impact of the RET legislation that is driving us towards 23.5% renewables by 2020, decreasing affordability.
And of course they had to ensure that they were politically correct in all their statements.
Overall, a lot of gobbledygook that I suspect will set the tone for Finkel’s report.
A three page Executive Summary (the panel rightly asked for a one page summary) that discusses speed of decisions, better system modeling, support for proof of concept technologies, and reliability.
Lots of suggestions for further study into new technologies, but the elephant in the room – the RET and affordability – is ignored.
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I think you could add a line to your title Jo – “however Labor candidates who believe in climate alarm win in a landslide.” Confusing isn’t it?
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