Email just in from Marc Morano of Climate Depot
WASHINGTON – Multiple news agencies, including Reuters News, are now reporting that President Donald Trump has privately informed several officials in Washington DC that he intends to withdraw from the UN Paris climate pact.
Climate Depot’s Marc Morano statement: “A U.S. Clexit (Climate Exit from UN Paris Pact) would be a victory for science. Make no mistake, climate campaigners who tout UN agreements and EPA regulations as a way to control Earth’s temperature and storminess are guilty of belief in superstition.”
Latest developments below.
Axios Scoop: Trump tells confidants U.S. will quit Paris climate deal
By Jonathan Swan & Amy Harder
President Trump has privately told multiple people, including EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt, that he plans to leave the Paris agreement on climate change, according to three sources with direct knowledge.
Why this matters: Pulling out of Paris is the biggest thing Trump could to do unravel Obama’s climate policies. It also sends a stark and combative signal to the rest of the world that working with other nations on climate change isn’t a priority to the Trump administration. And pulling out threatens to unravel the ambition of the entire deal, given how integral former President Obama was in making it come together in the first place.
Caveat: Although Trump made it clear during the campaign and in multiple conversations before his overseas trip that he favored withdrawal, he has been known to abruptly change his mind — and often floats notions to gauge the reaction of friends and aides. On the trip, he spent many hours with Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, powerful advisers who back the deal.
Paris was always pointless
If the US is in or out of Paris, in a hundred years no one could tell by studying the weather.
In a January 16, 2017 Prager U video titled, “The Paris Climate Agreement Won’t Change the Climate,” Bjorn Lomborg explains that “the agreement will cost a fortune, but do little to reduce global warming.” (Full transcript here)
“Using the same prediction model that the UN uses, I found that [Obama’s] power plan will accomplish almost nothing. Even if its cuts to carbon dioxide emissions are fully implemented – not just for the 14 years that the Paris agreement lasts, but for the rest of the century — the EPA’s Clean Power Plan would reduce the temperature increase in 2100 by just -.023 degrees Fahrenheit,” Lomborg explained.
“The actually promised emission reductions under the Paris agreement literally gets us just 1 percent of the way to the 2 degrees target,” he noted, adding “99% of what would be required is put off until after 2030.”
GDP figures in 2100 may tell a different story.
h/t Climate Depot
That is great news !
Thank you, President Trump, for letting us know that you understand the US National Academy of Sciences has been, and still remains an instrument of the UN’s globalist network!
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Assuming the rumours are true. We hope!
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Jo , you should never take what Trump says literally , he is a negotiator , he wrote the art of the deal , he recently admitted that he is none committed and open minded on global warming , as a negotiator he is takin a neutral none committed position on climate change , holding back his view , fore or against global warming , playing you against each other , until he gets , one way or the other , what he considers to be the best deal for America
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Trump gave me an opportunity to remind Al Gore and the Geophysics Section of the NAS of their vulnerability to prosecution.
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We have locally some green group-think nonsense for schools happening at the moment. My daughter was attending, so last night I reminded her CAGW cant be proven scientifically.
As my wife & child were leaving for the day, my wife had just cleaned out the cats litter tray and had a plastic bag full of much cat-generated fertilizer to go in the bin.. I cheekily suggested she let our daughter take the full plastic bag with her, it would be appropriate and would be probably more useful than the conference…..
No wonder I get in to so much strife……its fun….he he…just loving poking the green blob…
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You get brownie points, in both meanings of the term, from me.
Climate Crap or Cat Crap the abbreviations say the same thing.
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Trump is really a very talented negotiator, from a position of weakness or power, as Al Gore, Hillary Clinton and members of the US NAS will eventually realize.
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Trump be waiting for Roy’s next update…like the rest of us.
I feel a little bit like a junkie at this time of each month.
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Oh I doubt if he understand that much Oliver. A clearout at the NAS would be a lot harder than at the EPA for instance, as it’s ostensibly a non-governmental organisation ruled by its members. Non-governmental funding of their climate nonsense may be his best move, after withdrawing from Paris.
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Does Trump want to withdraw from Paris any more or is he having too much fun teasing now ? Surviving a weekend alone with the G7 at a Sicilian hotel was a good test of resolve however, as long as they didn’t get to his closest adviser either.
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Just as well he’s home now. Watching TV coverage you could see he was sick & tired of all whinging Socialists. They appeared to whinge mostly about having to pay their dues to NATO. If they are not prepared to share the load the USA should withdraw. NATO are doing nothing to protect Europe. Their enemy is already well ensconced. The only time they’ll respond is to quell an uprising by the indigenous Europeans!
The Europeans are terrified he may pull the plug as 20% of their revenue will evaporate.
Pulling out the Paris farce will strip a huge amount from that money trap as well.
Go The Donald!
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Let’s not forget that Europe had to be saved from itself twice in the 20th century, not by themselves but by the Brits and her allies, including the USA and Oz, so is history repeating itself, or are they incapable of learning?
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I do believe that they are incapable of learning anything.
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Just as well he’s home now. Watching TV coverage you could see he was sick & tired of all whinging Socialists. They appeared to whinge mostly about having to pay their dues to NATO. If they are not prepared to share the load the USA should withdraw. NATO are doing nothing to protect Europe. Their enemy is already well ensconced. The only time they’ll respond is to quell an uprising by the indigenous Europeans!
The Europeans are terrified he may pull the plug as 20% of their revenue will evaporate.
Pulling out the Paris farce will strip a huge amount from that money trap as well.
Go The Donald!
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Almost right Graham. But you miss the subtlety that the visible NATO is only about Military exercises these days. The real mission is an intelligence one, both intra-country and extra-country.
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Harder at the NAS? A “clearout” at the EPA would serve definite notice to the NAS.
Call them to order one at a time.
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Attorney General Jeff Sessions may be advising President Trump of the legal requirements for eventuall charging Al Gore and the Geophysics Section of the US NAS with Treason for betraying the public and the United States government.
This New York Times article gives the legal definition of the act of “Treason against the United States.”
http://www.nytimes.com/1861/01/25/news/treason-against-the-united-states.html?pagewanted=all
‘Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason.”
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I suspect, but cannot prove yet, that a great deal of addiction and mental illness in society stem from the success of a simple logical error in 1935:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Nuclear_Energy_Error7.pdf
that hid the benevolent force of creation of atoms, lives and planets here in the solar system for 82 yrs (1935-2017):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/HIGHER-POWERZ.pdf
Al Gore might be forced to face this issue in court.
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The sharp contrast between benevolent reality and AGW fear-mongering was shown in this video of President Eisenhower’s 1961 farewell address to the nation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOLld5PR4ts
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Ken McMurtrie is collecting testimonies from experts on the medical benefits of Cannabis:
https://tgrule.com/2017/05/29/cannabis-and-our-body/
We also need testimonies from mental health experts on damages induced by living in constant fear of global climate change.
Do these unfounded fears induce the need for Cannabis?
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This report on President Trump’s meeting with the Pope is also very encouraging:
http://greatamericandaily.com/popes-meeting-donald-trump-ended-shocking-fashion/
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HEADLINES: Trump officially announced plans today to pull the US out of the UN’s Paris Agreement!
http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/05/31/alert-trump-is-officially-pulling-u-s-out-of-un-paris-climate-pact/
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And thank you very very much from me Mr.President.
I hope that you and the few other sensible leaders can rid the world of the green cancer.
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Dennis a perfect description of the Green Swamp – Trumps decision like a first course of chemotherapy to rid us of this insidious “green cancer”.
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Assuming Trump makes an announcement this week to pull the USA out of the Paris agreement, it’ll be cause for some muted celebration, but there’s a long road ahead. There’s a concerted push to remove Trump from office and it’s just going to become more severe. Trump has some great people in place in his administration, but he’s got many more positions to fill. Those who helped him win an election aren’t necessarily those who can win the hearts and minds of the country. Until the USA is finally free and clear of the Paris agreement, there’s going to be constant pressure to replace Trump with a more conciliatory administration. Even then, if the USA is removed from the Paris agreement and Trump successfully lasts the next 7-1/2 years, it’s a sure bet that a replacement agreement will be ready for the next administration.
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If Trump pulls out it will be a very significant blow to the financial model of political activists and left wing political parties. The climate scam is the goose that lays the golden eggs, it certainly was never about the science which was debunked years ago. Trump will get attacked viciously for the USA trashing Paris, so if he does, we may see a significant investment in the science that debunks the models, and which supports his position. Thank you Jo Nova for all your work, and such a great website.
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Putting the AGW Ponzi into reverse will lose a lot of money for a lot of people. An awful lot of good money has been invested in various schemes by institutions, some of which, e.g. left wing union super funds, know that it is a scam. They are investing that money for political reasons, as insurance for their AGW scam.
They know that by the time of the next election Trump will be getting the blame for the losses their members suffer when the Ponzi is terminated.
Tony Abbott was elected to abolish the RET. What effect would that abolition have had on investment portfolios under Al Gore’s control? A very big downgrade! So when Clive Palmer announced he would protect the RET, that protected hundreds of millions for Al Gore. I would like to see a thorough investigation of the dealings between Clive Palmer and Al Gore.
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That assumes that they do nothing, Ted. If you can read the tea leaves, then so can they. The smart money is already divesting from the AGW scam, since they know that the wheels are about to fall off.
I guess the profit and loss depends on how smart the Union Super Funds are, when it comes to reading the writing on the wall.
Ponzi schemes only hurt those people who mistake them for a long-term investment. The trick is to be one of the first to invest, and the first to divest. It is the late-comers and laggards who will be left with valueless paper.
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Oh, if it only comes to pass. I’ll keep my fingers (and toes) crossed.
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I said from day one , if all ‘the Donald’ did during his Presidency was to get rid of the mother of all scams, CAGW / CACC(or whatever they call it this month), then it will be a Presidency well served!
Well done President Trump, a giant amongst international midgets most of whom are part of the Marxist Conglomerate, the EU !
I particularly like the way he shoved his way through that crowd of socialist non-achievers!
He is the only self made multi-billionaire and previously non politician among the globall warmer rabble.
Maybe back in the USA, the presstitute Fake Stream Media can do the Old ‘Blame it on the Russians’ Trick, with this also .
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Agreed,
As an Aussie though I am afraid of him succeeding on the triple whammy of low cost energy, lower taxes and unburdening the welfare system of illegals. I think this will unleash the USA economy and leave us antipodeans in the dust!
The good thing if that happens is that we will be forced to wake up to ourselves. The UK is on the way, we’re still dithering about at the starting line.
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The Leader he supposedly elbowed out of the way was the Leader of Montenegro, a Country with the population around the same as DC, and while DC is not a State, there are only two States with a smaller population than DC.
Tony.
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But if it prompts Montenegro to go nuclear it won’t matter how small they are.
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The ruskies made me do it. What burns me is that the Russian influence scandal is all about the release of information about the democrat candidate that was 100% true. All the kerfuffle is about who the messenger was. Why isn’t there an enquiry into the clearly illegal electoral activities of the democrats that the Russians are credited with existing to the benefit of US voters. I hope trump hold the line on bringing down the west destroying climate lie, reforming tax and rebuilding jobs, and immigration that will be huge benefits for the people of the USA.
The world has to recognize the stupidity of flushing trillions down the drain to mitigate am amount of sea level rise the height of 3 grains of sand a year, the only climate change threat that is truly left standing, all the others having been shown to not happen. In particular the interglacial peaks have given rise to good weather and it’s the dips like the little ice age that have been universally bad.
President Trump, if you or one of your minders is reading this let me point out that Max 34C and min 10 C has a higher average than Max 40 min 0 by the magic 2 deg C – which would you rather live in? A higher average temperature isn’t even necessarily hotter. 34/10 would be cooler in summer and warmer in winter, more tropical if you like. Everything does better in the tropics, farming, animal husbandry, people flock there for the climate. Frankly we KNOW that this is exactly what happens when the earth gets warmer because it’s what happens as we move from the poles to the tropics, the temperature range becomes more moderate. Dump Paris, second the UN world government wannabes and let’s get back to building business and jobs.
Malcolm Turnbull … that goes for you too, spend our money on things that actually makes a difference in OUR lives, 0.000023 degrees in a hundred years is NOT one of those things. Business, jobs, lower taxes.
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He is working on business and jobs, at Goldman Sachs.
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ain’t that the truth!
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All fingers crossed that this information is correct. Agree with Egor the One —this is one a few things President Trump has to do to rattle the system and history will recall him as being a very successful President.
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Say, deplorables
like me pray
’tis true
‘n not fake news.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGxjIBEZvx0
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One of the things that stopped the original Kyoto Protocol in its tracks back when President Clinton got Al Gore to take it to the U.S. Senate for approval was the clause regarding funding. That was the nominated Counties (and there were only twenty or so of them of the now 192 Countries) had to supply funding linked to their CO2 emissions, to be paid for by the introduction of a Cap and Trade System. (effectively what we had here in Oz as our Carbon Tax) That effectively made the U.S. (far far and away) the largest yearly contributor of funds to the UN.
Kyoto endured until they tried to find a replacement when Kyoto grandfathered out of existence, unreplaced.
This Paris agreement was that replacement, and again it was also linked to CO2 emissions, and with the U.S. now emitting 5.2 Billion tonnes of CO2 a year, you work out who would be the biggest contributor.
So, the U.S. has to pay for their own abatement, AND the cost of renewables, AND pay those other Countries for their abatement costs and renewables.
Now perhaps you can see why he wants out of this Paris Agreement.
Tony.
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Don’t expect it to be smooth sailing. The harder Trump tries to smash the global warming scam the greater the risk of impeachment proceedings to remove him from office. The special interest groups will do anything to keep the scam running.
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PeterS it is not impeachment that worries me it is that some fired up idiot may assassinate him. He is the first best chance the West has had for many years for some common sense to once again rule our governments.
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The Donald is no one’s fool or he would not have achieved what he has.
I am sure he is well aware of his present and future battles and who his enemies are, and am also inclined to think that he is playing the hysterical media for the fools they are, and that little has occurred that he has not planned for.
Almost no one seen him coming, while most of the so called ‘experts’ laughed at the possibility of him becoming president …..the same crowd that flog the CAGW nonsense.
Also,I heard that in addition to the Secret Service protection , he also has his own people, which would keep him well protected from the real nuts.
He never said that ‘draining the swamp’ was going to be easy, but he is the only one even attempting to do so .
He is also the only one likely to make a dent , if not succeed. Just look in horror what the alternative was !
So called ‘possible impeachment’ for colluding with Russians hiding under the bed, is laughable and just lefty fantasy…..sore losers that cannot accept a well deserved defeat.
They are only further damaging themselves by their unfounded hysteria and making the Donald stronger.
Little wonder such idiots and scammers are great floggers of the CAGW racket.
It’s a big, big swamp out there. The Donald has much to do !
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Are you implying that the Secret Service are the real nuts?
I know some of them are a bit odd, on occasion, but I wouldn’t call them “nuts”.
At least, not to their faces, at any rate. Have you seen the ordinance they carry …?
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“At least, not to their faces, at any rate. Have you seen the ordinance they carry …?”
Yes! But its like ‘Fulda Gap’ where the Soviets had more tanks than NATO had bullets. The SS is no protection against 50,000,000 carrying pitchforks and torches!
01
Difficult to impeach if you haven’t done something illegal or immoral. Doesn’t stop the Democrats from ranting about it, but the justification isn’t there. Not to mention the Republican majorities in both houses.
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Game Set & Match – GOP controls Congress – Trump unlikely to be impeached & even if he was his replacement is also likely to be a climate skeptic – one hopes.
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“The harder Trump tries to smash the global warming scam the greater the risk of impeachment proceedings to remove him from office.”
SCAM YES but! Why politically bother smashing the Paris nonsense? The USA has never been part of that nonsense!
I think that his lovely daughter should string the COP idiots along as long as possible; while never committing the USA to anything, except bilateral trade where both parties receive benefit in such agreement!
All the best!-will-
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https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2010/01/the-ipcc-s-flawed-data/
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The other mugs really think they can make the climate great again.
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Very funny.
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Yes but it’s already great. I suppose Trump could make it even better.
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They’re going to build a wall of regulation, debt and white elephants. If you argue they’re going to build it ten feet higher.
Because they’re going to – let’s hear it! – MCGA. MAKE CLIMATE GREAT AGAIN.
Buy your MCGA caps and T-shirts from the same people who built the Kembla Wave Generator, the Sydney Desal or Timmy’s Geothermia. Send money then wait. Or just burn the money.
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Flip, flip…….100 Trillion dollars later….. FLOP !
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The greatest indicator that Climate Change is like Tunrbull’s absurd refugee deal, the ‘Arab Spring’, Obamacare, open borders is that it is a child of Obama, who did his best to implement and cement in place the destructive fantasies of the left of politics and damage the US. The Paris agreement was not a treaty, so it did not have to be ratified by the Congress. It was as much as Obama could do to tie Trump’s hands so he could not act.
To quote Winston Churchill who fought European hegemony over the world, it is not the end, it is not the beginning of the end, but it is perhaps the end of the beginning. It sends a signal to the world that the era of plundering a weak US is over.
As for the EU starting their single perhaps nuclear armed forces this week, that sends another signal. Europe vs whom? We have been there before and once again, Britain stands alone, except for the US. It is certainly not about Putin who is alleged to have ruined Hillary’s campaign by releasing the truth. It is about restoring peace and independence and prosperity to many countries suffering under socialism. Starting with the US. You could include Australia.
Can we have an end to our primping poseur of a Green Labor PM? Bring back the one other world leader brave enough to call Climate Science crap, socialism masquerading as environmentalism, Tony Abbott.
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Australia has always been socialist, because the ten-pound migrants came from the British working class.
New Zealand, on the other hand, imported farmers and stock breeders, that came from the British middle classes, and gold prospectors who were definitely capitalist at heart, all of whom preferred a conservative system of government.
It seems funny to me, but two centuries have passed, and yet those distinctions still exist, if you want to go looking for them.
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Not so sure in the 19th century. The Potato famines, the massive wars in Europe (1865) driving the Europeans out (there were no Germans), the clearances in Scotland, the convicts (the better ones, young with potential for minor crimes), the Gold Rush in Australia (everyone). In the 20th century WW2 changed AUstralia too, with Italy devastated after two world wars, whole Greek towns, Malta and through it all the French, even today. I think Australia stopped being British some decades ago but like the US, it is fundamentally British in its laws, attitudes and the system works, as it does in Canada which is the most heavily migrated country. As for classes, the Irish were working class and became policemen and publicans. The well educated Scots were the middle classes. Possibly overall it has simply been more attractive a place and actually closer. I doubt NZ had the waves of migration Australia experienced in the second half of the 20th century. In fact one of the bigger migrant groups were New Zealanders.
Socialism though is part of the flavour of Europe generally and today even more so, if you look at the EU. It flourishes in the massive administration, where 10,000 unelected public servants earn more than the British PM and wrote 60% of England’s new laws. Now that’s new socialism.
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https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2017/05/trump-russia-neverending-beatup/
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President-elect Donald Trump has said he will cancel American involvement in the Paris Agreement on climate change. Commentators have pointed out that, under the treaty’s rules, Trump would need to wait three years from the date on which it came into force, November 4, 2016, to officially notify the United Nations of U.S. cancellation. Even then, the withdrawal will not take effect until one year later.
However, there is a faster, more effective way for the U.S. to exit the Paris Agreement.
The above guidelines are indeed within the Paris Agreement — but UN climate agreements are actually based on the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (FCCC).
The FCCC was signed by President George H. W. Bush and other world leaders at the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992. Per the FCCC, signatory countries are given the option of quitting provided they wait three years from the date on which the Convention came into force, March 21, 1994, with the withdrawal to take effect one year later.
So the U.S. could exit the FCCC one year after officially notifying the UN, which it can do at any time.
Most importantly, exiting the FCCC would remove the U.S. from the Paris Agreement as well. Read the crucially important phrase from Article 25 of the FCCC:
Any Party that withdraws from the Convention shall be considered as also having withdrawn from any protocol to which it is a Party.
https://pjmedia.com/blog/how-trump-can-completely-withdraw-u-s-from-un-climate-deals/
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Interesting tip!
Thankas
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Art’s right. However I suggest that, regarding withdrawal, this might be the better plan: https://ipccreport.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/note-on-paris-agreement.pdf
Essentially my view is that China – which doesn’t really believe that dangerous AGW is a problem (there’s abundant evidence supporting this) – outmanoeuvred the US in pre-Paris negotiations. The result is that China and other “developing” countries are under no obligation – legal or moral – to reduce their emissions leaving the West (responsible for only about 25% of emissions) to bear the entire burden. I’m proposing a means whereby the US could challenge China on this – opening up the prospect of a more balanced and sensible global position on climate change.
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China is right. Dangerous AGW is not a problem.
So why should the USA seek a balanced global position on Climate Change? That is not a better plan. It is not rational. The correct response is to pull out of all the BS agreements and stop funding the UNFCC.
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The problem is that your approach would do nothing to help other Western countries out of the trap they’ve fallen into. Instead it would provoke howls of outrage – enabling China to get on its moral high horse, confirming its widely praised (and totally hypocritical) role of global leadership on the issue and reinforcing the complacency and ignorance of Western “leaders”. In contrast, a response that flushed out the reality that climate change fears are confined to Western scientists (and not all of them) could force those “leaders” to face the reality that they’ve been taken for an almighty ride.
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Robin,
I have encountered a number of legal people socially and before Courts. They, like you seem to be doing here, place emphasis on preserving face in negotiations about green matters, some of them even putting recognition of an international convention ahead of other considerations. Being good corporate citizens before the eyes of the rest of the world.
As a scientist, I place most emphasis on whether the science is plausible and the best that can be done. If the science is built on sand, not rock, there is no point in being a good citizen because you are dealing with a false premise.
How widespread is this misplaced emphasis among your legal circles?
Geoff
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Geoff: in pre-Paris negotiation China (which, although it rarely says so publicly, believes the West’s view of the science is, as you say, “built on sand”) outmaneuvered the West. The result was that the West (essentially the US and EU28) agreed to the absurdity of taking sole responsibility for emission reduction (and paying massive “compensation”). Therefore – as I note below – a unilateral withdrawal by the US would leave the EU (etc.) struggling to solve the (so-called) problem on its own thereby damaging its economy while the rest of the world, including the US, forges ahead. I’m proposing a way of overcoming that. My proposal has nothing to do with the law – nor with being “a good citizen”. Far from it.
11
Robin Guenier May 30, 2017 at 12:05 am
“Geoff: in pre-Paris negotiation China (which, although it rarely says so publicly, believes the West’s view of the science is, as you say, “built on sand”) outmaneuvered the West.”
Just what has been ‘outmaneuvered’ except your fantasy?
“The result was that the West (essentially the US and EU28) agreed to the absurdity of taking sole responsibility for emission reduction (and paying massive “compensation”).”
There is no such ‘agreed’, at least for the USA, except in your fantasy!
“Therefore – as I note below – a unilateral withdrawal by the US would leave the EU (etc.) struggling to solve the (so-called) problem on its own thereby damaging its economy while the rest of the world, including the US, forges ahead.”
The EU made a big mistake by trying ‘Globalism’. They must figure that out for themselves!
“I’m proposing a way of overcoming that. My proposal has nothing to do with the law – nor with being “a good citizen”. Far from it.”
What you propose has no merit for anyone.
00
Will Janoschka:
1. Chinese (and probably Indian) scientists and political leaders are unconvinced that CO2 emissions are the cause of recent temperature increases.
2. Unsurprisingly therefore China, already responsible for 30 of global emissions (more than the US and EU combined), is busily investing huge sums in new fossil fuel based power plants – both at home (as is India) and overseas.
3. In pre-Paris negotiations, China and India ensured that in the agreed text “developing” countries (which include China and India) are exempt from any obligation – legal or moral, now or in the future – to reduce their emissions, being merely “encouraged to move over time towards economy-wide emission reduction or limitation targets in the light of different national circumstances”.
4. In contrast, the agreed text puts developed countries (essentially the US and Western Europe) under pressure to “continue taking the lead by undertaking economy- wide absolute emission reduction targets”.
5. China accordingly made no commitment to reduce emissions in its INDC submitted to the UN. In contrast, the US and EU (etc.) made reduction promises.
6. Despite all this, politicians and commentators in the West are absurdly anxious to praise China for its “global leadership” on the environment.
That’s what I mean by the West being “outmanoeuvred”. Let’s hope Trump sees through it.
10
Robin Guenier May 30, 2017 at 5:54 pm
“Will Janoschka:
1. Chinese (and probably Indian) scientists and political leaders are unconvinced that CO2 emissions are the cause of recent temperature increases.”
As are most all the comments here at Joanne’s
“2. Unsurprisingly therefore China, already responsible for 30 of global emissions (more than the US and EU combined), is busily investing huge sums in new fossil fuel based power plants – both at home (as is India) and overseas.”
What can you possibly mean by “global emissions”? Do you mean ‘plant food’ (CO2)?
“3. In pre-Paris negotiations, China and India ensured that in the agreed text “developing” countries (which include China and India) are exempt from any obligation – legal or moral, now or in the future – to reduce their emissions, being merely “encouraged to move over time towards economy-wide emission reduction or limitation targets in the light of different national circumstances”.”
Good for them! Perhaps they have ‘working’ governments!
“4. In contrast, the agreed text puts developed countries (essentially the US and Western Europe) under pressure to “continue taking the lead by undertaking economy- wide absolute emission reduction targets”.”
Just WHO claims some ‘agreed text’?
“5. China accordingly made no commitment to reduce emissions in its INDC submitted to the UN. In contrast, the US and EU (etc.) made reduction promises.”
Never the US; perhaps BO’bummer who never represented the USA at all!
“6. Despite all this, politicians and commentators in the West are absurdly anxious to praise China for its “global leadership” on the environment.”
And all the US ‘citizens’, giggle and point fingers at the Marxist politicians and commenters!
“That’s what I mean by the West being “outmanoeuvred”. Let’s hope Trump sees through it.”
Only the Uni-party, including Frau Merkel née Kasner; born 17 July 1954, and those in Brussels; are being “outmanoeuvred” by everyone else in the world!
00
Agreed – by definition “a balanced position on climate” involves buying into the scam at least in part, and by assigning the nonsense/fairy dust that makes up CAGW into a form of hard currency…ironically, this is how fiat currencies work……
The negotiationg position should be a flat out – “No”.
40
A flat out “No” may be fine for the US – but would leave the rest of the West foolishly struggling to solve the “problem” by itself. Note Angela Merkel’s comment after the recent G7 meeting:
(LINK)
The result would be that Europe (etc.), despite being responsible for only 11% of global emissions, would continue to pursue economy damaging energy policies while the rest of the world, now including the US and led by China, forges ahead with economic development. That’s not the world I want to live in. Far better – as I’ve suggested – to flush out China’s true views about AGW, so as to open Western leaders’ eyes to the reality of what the “climate debate” really entails. That’s what I mean by “balanced”.
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Considering Beserk-el is part of the CAGW Cabal, I’d expect such ludicrous comments….their pursuit is power and power alone, humanity be damned…
00
Robin Guenier May 29, 2017 at 10:05 pm
“A flat out “No” may be fine for the US – but would leave the rest of the West foolishly struggling to solve the “problem” by itself.”
What is your so called “problem”?
CAGW is but a nonsense SCAM that you seem to accept, hook, line, and sinker!
Perhaps, best would be to let smart ‘first daughter’ Ivanka string along all the haughty Eurocrats, thinking the US will someday actually join!!
00
The World’s globalist Left is in full panic mode. The US popular vote supported Clinton, but as a result of the last election, the GOP is within a razor’s edge of being able to facilitate monumental change in the US that will permeate through Europe and the world. Not only does the GOP hold both houses and control nominations to the US Supreme Court, it also holds an incredibly strong position in state governments. One more state government and the GOP will be in position to change the US constitution. The last thing globalist Europe needs is a stronger US.
The Dems are regrouping into California. There is a lot, lot more at stake than carbon taxes and a Paris agreement. The World’s Left is seeing its aspirations of a New World Order getting torn up in front of its eyes.
20
NO, the Californian and Washing votes supported Clinton
The majority of the people outside these two far-left havens, supported Trump.
10
Do not forget the Marxists and the investment banks in NYC! Part of the scamming swamp, not the T-Rex Exxon, trying to make a buck!
00
No need for any negotiation when the ENTIRE thing is a SCAM/FRAUD !
50
There are no legally enforceable obligations under the Paris Accord, so the length of the notice period carries no significance. It merely needs to expire before the next President takes office.
If the US gave notice tomorrow of its intention to leave the Paris Accord, the US need take no steps whatsoever or whensoever to reduce emissions, and no country could pursue a claim based upon a failure to reduce CO2 emissions during the notice period.
Of course, IF Trump deals with this simply by way of executive order, presumably the next President could simply, should he so wish, once again adopt the Paris Accord by executive order, just as Obama initially adopted the convention/treaty/accord.
If the Paris Accord is to be killed off once and for all, it needs to be sent to the Senate, and for the Senate to reject it (since it would be a very bold incoming President who would then adopt a convention/treaty which had been rejected by the Senate, simply by executive order).
Some people argue that it is better to be at the table and for that reason the US should not pull out of the Paris Accord. However, if the US remains within the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (FCCC), presumably the US will remain at the table. It will just be that the US is ignoring the Paris Accord, but would be entitled to updates as to how others are progressing, and whether there should be any new agreements/conventions/accords. In this manner, the US will still be able to influence debate.
I consider that if Trump is going to bring back jobs to America, especially heavy industrial jobs, and if Trump is going to invest in infrastructure upgrading, then it is inevitable that the US will not be able to reduce its CO2 emissions, and that being the case, even though the Paris Accord contains no enforceable obligations, it would be very sensible for Trump to pull out of the Paris Accord. Remaining within the Paris Accord will only cause him problems both in the draining of the swamp, but also in his reinvigoration of America and bringing jobs back to America (which will repatriate what is presently off-shored CO2 emissions), such that he has no practical choice but to withdraw the US from the Paris Accord.
50
“could exit the FCCC one year after officially notifying the UN”
Why does the UN have that sort of power?
They are , as someone said.. unelected swill !!
Trump should just tell them to VACATE the US premises and move to Nigeria where they can do some good. !!
Why should the US have to house the UN?
I suggest a 5 year country rotation of world trouble spots.
and no, Australia is NOT interested
242
“and no, Australia is NOT interested”
even with Turnbull as PM. !!
92
Sync it with the Olympics. It’s all a game anyway.
120
Sink it.. get your spelling correct, Peter. 😉
152
Thank you for the spelling correction. How silly of me!
80
Good idea,
– 100 metre – Sea level rise.
– The Sovereign – Hurdles.
– The MWP – Long Jump.
– Wind Turbine – Blade Throw.
– Marathon – Talking.
– Discus – Nothing Scientific.
– Open Borders – Hop Skip & Jump.
140
What about CAGW “manure” shovelling? What would that be?
30
Perhaps a mixed sport of Equestrian Croquet – Modelling.
20
I’m sure that The Donald must have some very bright staffers onto this “small print” in Bush’s agreement.
He’ll probably just cancel the 1992 agreement & let the snowflakes go into hysterics when the importance sinks in.
110
Graham Richards May 28, 2017 at 10:04 pm
I’m sure that The Donald must have some very bright staffers onto this “small print” in Bush’s agreement. He’ll probably just cancel the 1992 agreement
That Rio agreement also was never ratified by the legislature (Congress) of the USA. It was only effective for the term of Bush! No need for P45 to do anything, except perhaps to drive the meeja an Uni-party
even more nutz! 🙂
00
You are accurate and correct. However, I believe that in the real world, the day after Mr. Trump formally signed our intent to leave the agreement, or
if forced put it to a vote in the senate which filed to ratify, any attempt to enforce any provision would be met by a not-too-polite “pound sand”.
Mr. Trump was elected, and will survive or not, primarily on the economic issues. He may be unable to replace Obamacare. He may be unable to pass a real reform budget, or dramatically change tax system. But it does appear that he has the power, even without congress, to change the facts on the ground and enhance US energy production.
The US as a reliable, low-cost energy host for business is a big plus. Becoming a net exporter, even if only of refined fuels, is an even bigger plus. Energy exporters generally punch above their weight in the world, and the US is already the class of the heavyweight class. Exporting wood pellets to the UK, enhancing our farmed pulpwood industry, is small potatoes compared to the clout LNG might bring. And The US has LOTS of coal, lots of mining infrastructure, and the facilities to ship same. The rest of the world is working hard to make us the low cost producer, and the most reliable.
I believe Mr. Trump can secure most of his political goals for the first term within the energy sector alone, and he and his uncomfortably allied Republicans can ride the energy economy to continued majority. The campaign will be fun. The left has always loved to cite Europe as a model–welfare, health care, tolerance (presumed).
Focusing policy of energy may help focus our perpetual campaign also on energy. If your pitch is: “you are too happy and comfortable, you consume too much, you are too rich, you are killing the planet, and we need to me more like [insert Socialist State name here]…..
Politically, of course, this silly twaddle may have to me neutered and left standing, another dead letter in a line of international pronouncements dating back centuries.
But also politically: “It’s the economy, stupid”.
Let the greens walk blissfully into their reality-free future: “we’ll always have Paris”.
121
Richard Ilfeld @ # 14.4
Richard, I’ve been giving some thought as have most of us here to what has been happening between Trump and the European White Left Elite, the “Baizuo” of the very derogatory Chinese social media commentary.
Trump has arrived on the political scene at a Very opportune moment for the USA and for Trump.
The USA has once again, for the first time in what must be close to two thirds of a century, become entirely self sufficient in its entire range of energy needs due to the success of the shale oil industry plus of course its huge coal reserves which are there and always will be there to be exploited if ever needed in an international emergency by the Americans
And all that is within the contiguous 48 states without bringing into play the next door, across a friendly land border, the Canadian oil sands which are close to matching the Saudi’s reserves in their amounts of recoverable oil.
So the USA today can once again afford to give the two fingered salute to just about everybody if it decides to do so.
It is no longer beholden to any nation or bloc of nations in its external and internal politics because of its need to ensure access to adequate energy resources.
And THAT, subconsciously politically, will and already possibly is having a profound effect on the future of a whole range of US foreign policies and relationships.
———————–
Reading the range of media particularly the european media commentary and the hatred of Trump and what he represents is visceral across most of the European and American left media, the media that represents and is the propaganda arm of that Chinese social commentary white Left Elite, the Baizuo
[ I have to confess that like E,M, Smith, the Chiefio in his most recent post [ I see some rather familiar names in the commentary there ] I haven’t watched any TV or listened to any radio news programs for what must be going on for 3 or 4 years now as IO simply are sick to death of the blatant lieing bigotry and bias and the open and deliberate and blatant ommissions of facts that are contrary to the medias bias and bigoted ideological stance in the reporting.
I try to read a wide range of news items from a number of different sources and nationalities to try and get a handle on what is happening across the planet instead of relying on the mass of the bigoted, openly and blatantly lieing leftist western news media. ]
Trump gets heavily criticised for whatever ever he does.
But the reality is that the media and the politicians particularly the European politicians have over the last couple of generations become so wrapped up in the process and appearance of politics rather than the substance of politics that they can no longer differentiate as to what is important for their people and nations and what is not and should be cast aside in favour of the more important social and economic parts of their political briefs.
Obama fitted in perfectly with the European and American White Left Elite , the “Baizuo” as he fulfilled all the apearances and trappings of political power but like that same European and American White Left Elite he was little more than an empty political pot that made a great deal of sweet sounding noise but in actual political substance was little more than an empty shell and husk.
Trump doesn’t have the trappings and sophistication of the well established old school, self important, political process worshipping, political substance ignoring proffessionally elitist European and American politicians and European and American media who are having great trouble in trying to get their minds around the simple fact that maybe their brand of politics and the manner in which they carry out those politics might be reaching a point of obsolescence with the people they purport to represent.
The europeans also must be feeling very threatened deep down as the politics of the two major english speaking nations of Britain and now the USA are giving the whole concept of a ultra European nation that exists primarily in the imagination of the highly paid and elitist European political and European “White Left Elites” a deepening fear that they are no longer controlling the agenda and maybe are even heading for their own wipe out in the political sense as they are increasing seen to ignore the nationalisitic overtones and fears and insecurities of most of the peoples of the very disparate grouping of European nations that were supposed to make up the European Union, the new and world ranked global power.
Particularly when something that is seen by the European and American White Left elites such as “Climate Change” outweighs the common man’s fears of a outcomes of a mass migration that has allowed by the European political elites, to bring in vast numbers of foreigners with no cultural attachment and frequently an ideologically based aversion to basic European cultural values.
Trump is merely a manifestation that the a lot of the old ways of doing politics that have evolved since the end of WW2 are now being questioned and even dispensed with.
and those european and american white left political and bureaucratic elites are deep down and far from being admitted, are becoming very fearful indeed that they will be dispensed with and eliminated as their power and influence wane under new style politicians such as Trump and May and others across the planet.
So to the old European and American White Left Elitist “Biazou”, Trump must go and let there be no barriers or ethics or morality allowed to stand in the way of forcing his disappearance from the scene.
Its War, an internal western political war between the old politics and and the new way of politics.
And it is a war that the old order might win some battles but in the end cannot and never will win the overall political war as their time is past and the world moves on to another generation who like all generations before it , will do so many things differently again.
41
Art
I’m not disagreeing with what you say ( and your detail may explain President Trump’s delays as he tries to find a quicker, legal way out) but I thought ratification,of the US involvement, by the Senate ( which has never happened) played an important role. That is , if President Trump puts it to the Senate vote for ratification and they vote it down (which I think occurred with the Kyoto agreement) then the USA is effectively out.
40
FCCC =white elephant debt regulation committee, no offense to white elephants!
20
here in usa we the people are not bound by UN white elephant jokes signed by a globalist jerk of bygone days–we are a triparte constitutional government. don’t be fooled!
20
Looks remarkably like a “Get out of Jail Free” card to me.
And quite ironically, AGW looks sufficiently like Monopoly to me, that I have already designed a mock-up “carbon” version of the board. It wasn’t hard.
In fact, I suspect that the IPCC had a similar idea, when they set up the “climate change for fame and profit” financial structure.
30
It’s not a treaty.
Obama couldn’t executive order any treaty.
Treaties need approval by reams of government.
20
Thank you, Art, for an excellent suggestion.
No matter which side of the AGW argument one is on, one cannot be a good stewart of creation if one ignores the simple logical error made in calculating how nuclear energy sustains life and the dynamic universe.
10
“Any Party that withdraws from the Convention shall be considered as also having withdrawn from any protocol to which it is a Party.”
The USA is not a party!! Nothing needs be done. If the current POTUS doesn’t like what the UN is doing; only then becomes the need to force the exit of the UN ‘from the USA’! What can the UN do?, Complain to Russia or China? Best to string the socialist EU along, keeping them hopeful that the USA might someday become a party!! 🙂
00
That’s if he doesn’t just declare it unlawful without ratification by the Senate & throw it to the Senate.
00
It is so embarrassing that all the major European leaders are all in favour of the Paris Climate Agreement. We are led by donkeys and we are unable to get rid of them.
240
Not “donkeys” but TRAITORS………..
52
Please do not defame donkeys.
Asses get bad enough press, as it is, without comparing them with major European leaders.
40
I have regularly donated for many years to Caritas Australia, a Catholic international charity. Last week, I received an email from them, seeking my support an advocacy initiative they have started to petition the Australian Government to take immediate action on climate change.
The energised campaign message includes generalisations to the effect that Australians want strong climate action, the Government is backing outdated climate policies that allow more coal mines, and goes on the demand “climate justice” (whatever that means). It plans” to build the biggest multi-electorate climate petition in Australia’s history”.
Caritas will hear this week that this significant donor has lost faith in a charity that has stepped seriously outside its role, and is transferring ongoing donations to another carefully selected charity that just does charity justice.
531
If the Pope is claiming Climate Change is real, they are following instructions. Caring people are the most easily deceived by the voice of authority, from Obama down. That is how it all works.
My real hope for the next few years is a drop of say 0.3C in the average, wiping out all the gains of the late 1990s so that no one seriously believes Global Warming is real. The battle will be to get the BOM to stop homogenizing the data to remove the drop.
The expected drop is a real prediction from the simple analysis of Dr. Weiss. He has done what no climate modeller has done, mapped the past, predicted the small rise and predicted the pause. His graphs now predict a steep drop. It could all be history by 2020. Even the pope will be on board. After all, he simply believed the voice of authority. Infallibility clearly does not apply to Climate Faith.
250
Of course by then Flannery will have worked out a way CO2 is now causing cooling and we will have to keep building windtowers. After all, this is someone who argued that the oceans stole his warming.
I am surprised only that Turnbull has not reconstituted the Climate Commission and given Flannery his job back and an Order of Australia for his work on Global Warming.
111
Warmth (for example, provision of blankets and rain protection), shelter and food (recent data suggests that the slight increase in CO2 atmospheric levels have boosted global crop production) are staple needs of many charities.
Climate change (aka, global warming) seems to be beneficial in these areas.
121
#16.1.1
Barnaby wouldn’t allow that.
50
So far Barnaby has not objected to anything. All the way with Malcolm.
120
The National Party now wants a carbon dioxide (plant food) tax.
They have become as bad as the greens & alp !
NATIONAL PARTY WANTS A CARBON TAX !
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/generational-evolution-forces-nationals-to-consider-adopting-emissions-intensity-scheme-20170518-gw7wdr.html
No longer conservative.
40
And of course a few weeks ago ….
‘Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce says he was “surprised” by the party youth wing’s show of support for an emissions intensity scheme, a position at odds with the group’s parliamentary leaders.’
This shift towards the green blob has come about through the dissemination of propaganda within the education system and msm.
I see this as an opportunity for Cory Bernardi to build a new political movement, a break from the past.
71
The pope behaves as one would expect from the leader of an earth centered belief system ( the core of CAGW ).
The popes’ position flies in direct opposition to the Bible, which says not to be unevenly yoked with unbelievers ( 2 Cor 6:14 ).
In Amos 3:3 it says “Can two walk together lest they be agreed?”
Any roman catholc might stop and consider this – my concern is the RCC may lead people into an unholy deal with the warmists, but the pope himself and all the significant intellectual resources of the RCC ( who would clearly understand this ) seem wholy unconcerned…..odd I thought..unless of course….?
I pull no punches in this type of stuff.
20
Good for you. I wish everyone would boycott such ‘charities’.
50
I have dumped almost all my charities over the years as each one has succumbed to the Global Warming religion or other irregularities. The first one to go was the Brotherhhod of St Lawrence because they became an advocacy group for social justice and government spending. I already pay tax so I don’t need to pay twice.
The AMA has also been dumped for the same reason.
St Vincent de Paul is still ok because they get on with chartitable work but they have wavered.
Actually there are over 50,000 charities in Australia which ,get a tax benefit. That is quite disgraceful.
JoNova is not a charity but the blog gets my support because it is an effective means of confronting the Green Blob,
180
It’s a shame the Brotherhood of St Lawrence went that way. I’m always pretty annoyed by that banner flying from St Paul’s Cathedral in Melbourne. I’m really fed up with all the bleeding heart SJWs in the church. It’s mostly virtue-signalling. The really decent people you see don’t make a song and dance about what they do.
30
You are doing the right thing. Churches and charities have become infested with well paid fashionista managers who want to look good in the posh/left urban green/circles they love to move in. I don’t think one should give up on churches and charities, but those who handle big sums need to account for those sums. At least Caritas have declared that they are going to fritter resources on fashionable politics and activism, so that donors have clarity. Maybe the loss of donations will give them a needed jolt.
In the case of Catholicism, it goes right back up to a pope who has a very dodgy early career to live down and who, like a Clinton, knows what must be said and to whom in order to keep the adoration coming. (Let’s just say that Bergoglio and Hillary have done more than just eat an onion with the skin on or winked at an ABC interviewer.)
80
Just for good measure….( the pope is a Jesuit)
I just keeps getting better and ….er….better….
https://spectator.org/the-popes-marxist-head-of-the-jesuits/
“Understanding the adage that personnel is policy, Pope Francis has been planting Marxists throughout the Church, including at the top of the troubled religious order to which he belongs. In 2016, the Jesuits, with the blessing of Pope Francis, installed as its general superior a Venezuelan, Fr. Arturo Sosa Abascal, whose communist convictions have long been known.”
Sosa has written about the “Marxist mediation of the Christian Faith,” arguing that the Church should “understand the existence of Christians who simultaneously call themselves Marxists and commit themselves to the transformation of the capitalist society into a socialist society.” In 1989, he signed a letter praising Fidel Castro.
Turn down any corridor in Francis’s Vatican, and you are likely to run into a de facto communist: Francis has a communist running his order, a communist running his Council of Cardinals (the Honduran cardinal, Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga), a communist running the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences (Margaret Archer, a British sociologist who has said that she represents the “Marxian left”), and communists such as the renegade Brazilian liberation theologian Leonardo Boff and the Canadian socialist Naomi Klein drafting his encyclicals.”
40
We no longer donate to this GREEN COMMUNIST organization “Caritas”.
They are certainly not even Christian any longer !
They take their direction for the despicable “pope” at the moment….
POPE WATERMELON THE FIRST.
82
Say, excuse me!
Go look at this image of the group photo at the end of this G7 Conference.
True, all seven Leaders are standing in front of the Flag of their Country.
Wait a minute, who are those other two guys, one at each end standing in front of the Flags of the EU.
The Leaders and the string pullers eh!
Tony.
Post Script – You know, the longer I live, the more I realise just why when we had group images taken during my time in the Air Force, we were all at either Attention or At Ease. No in between.
143
Any idea of the views of Japanese PM, Shinzo Abe on Global Warming, Climate stuff? With the North Korea and China threats, he will go along with Trump. Besides, as a country without any energy resources and scared now of nuclear power, he cannot walk away from fossil fuel.
150
Whatever their views on climate change are the Japanese have 11 coal fired power stations currently under construction with dozens more planned and approved. Meanwhile we have our fingers up you know what still deciding when not if we should close down more of our power stations with even not one new one approved to be built. Stupid is as stupid does.
190
As far as that photo goes Tony, where our Waffler and GloBull Warmer In Chief, TurnBull ?
…….Where’s Wally ??
30
How come there’s nine people in that photo of the G7 leaders?
How come there is two flags the same?
How come the EU flag is there at all?
30
I was wondering about that too Raven.
20
I want more than rumors. The USA must leave the UNFCCC altogether and then the USA must shake its NSF from top to bottom so funding can be redirected towards actual science.
150
That is 0.3°F after 100years if and only IF the Catastrophic Anthropocentric Global Warming theory stops being so laughably wrong and suddenly its failed major assumptions magically defy all recorded and geologic history.
101
Same goes for NASA. They need a shake up to put their focus back on space exploration and not harp on about climate change all the time.
70
NASA & NOAA should have been at the top of the list for using Satellite measurements.
60
The US stop funding the anti human UN entirely and shut it done!
30
With any luck, Kushner is currently learning how ruthless the warmists and their allies are. If he pushes back, where will he push back?
70
On ‘Climate Change,’ Trump Can’t Afford to Alienate His Base
“The one thing I’ll say that won’t change though is he’s certain to base his decision based on what he thinks is best for the American people,” national security adviser H.R. McMaster said.
“So while his views are evolving, the basis for his decision remains unchanged.”
“Clearly, for Trump now to violate a major campaign promise and stick with the Paris agreement would be a huge mistake. It would both enrage and dishearten his base, which has stood by him throughout the attempted rolling coup engineered by the Deep State and the intelligence community, and facilitated by the press.
He must slam-dunk it, no matter what the pygmy states of Europe and the semi-imaginary country of Canada think.?
https://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2017/05/27/on-climate-change-trump-cant-afford-to-alienate-his-base/
180
You are right Mark, Trump Can’t Afford to Alienate His Base – I have never forgotten Newt Gingrich’s flip-flop and alliance with Nancy Pelosi on Global Warming. Newt will never be trusted again by this former NewYorker and I would be furious if my fellow NewYorker, Trump appeased the Green Blob.
150
OT, the benefits of GREEN SLIME POLLUTION !!!
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/the-river-teifis-toxic-tsunami-of-sludge/
82
Idjit
‘The Turnbull government will support the Paris agreement on climate change regardless of whether or not the US president, Donald Trump, pulls out, the environment minister, Josh Frydenberg, has signalled.’
Guardian
70
Great way to further reduce the Turnbull Party vote.
Is there ANYONE left that would vote for these cretins??
142
Peter Dutton is the only possibility to pull off a Trump style victory if he can oust Turnbull, anyone else the electorate will see as same cr#p different smell.
80
Dutton is also a waste of space.
He was extremely evasive and refused to answer questions when he was on the Alan Jones radio program recently.
I felt like breaking the radio !
He is just another tosser !
50
Dutton is part of the ignorant collective and doesn’t have a clue about climate change. The only thing in his favour is that he despises the ABC and Fairfax.
20
Hopefully Trump and all his advisors get to read —
A meteorologist and an analytical chemist teamed up explore the claims that CO2 levels drive climate. (They also mention the role of underwater volcanoes, a drum that I have been beating for more than 20 years.)
In their newly published paper, ‘Role of atmospheric carbon dioxide in climate change‘( http://principia-scientific.org/publications/Role_of_CO2-EaE.pdf ), meteorologist Dr Martin Hertzberg and analytical chemist Hans Schreuder cite a plethora of data concerning what is known – and currently accepted – about the role of carbon dioxide in climate change (global warming).
The data examined includes:
(a) Vostok (Antarctica) ice-core measurements;
(b) rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere;
(c) temperature changes that precede CO2 changes;
(d) global temperature trends;
(e) satellite data;
(f) effect of solar activity.
The two highly qualified scientists found that:
“Nothing in the data supports the supposition that atmospheric CO2 is a driver of weather or climate, or that human emissions control atmospheric CO2.”
Any changes in CO2 levels are “overwhelmingly natural.”
Looking at the relationship between CO2 and climate over the past 400,000 years, the data indicate that human-caused CO2 emissions had no influence on the Earth’s temperature.
151
Good paper.
53
And maybe Trump and his advisors should look at the benefits that the atmospherically rare gas CO2 is having on the planet — https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-017-0081
30
And also the benefits of more CO2 for trees on the treeline in Mongolia —
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311342083_Does_increasing_intrinsic_water_use_efficiency_iWUE_stimulate_tree_growth_at_natural_alpine_timberline_on_the_southeastern_Tibetan_Plateau
30
Could it be that Trump, like a good father, made extended efforts to let the kids down slowly by making sure they exhausted their reasons?
Could it be that Trump, for the most part, usually means what he says provided whatever position does not severely limit his deal on other things.
Could it be that Pruitt was going to resign if Jarvanka prevailed?
Actually, who really cares provided he dust bins the Paris climate thingy.
80
Donald promised Ivanka that he would do nothing until he had discussions with the European leaders face to face, which is why he had such a huge grin.
The president recognised that they (including the pope) know nothing about the science and are on the wrong side of history.
Also, being a revolutionary, he will pull the US out of the Framework Convention and this time next year it’ll all be over.
70
***with Reuters’ smears. pathetic:
28 May: Sky News ***with Reuters: Aust govt won’t push US on Paris accord
Federal energy minister Josh Frydenberg has told Sky News the government is committed it the Paris targets, but won’t put pressure on the US to remain in the agreement…
But according to a media report by US website Axios, Mr Trump has told ‘confidants’, including the head of the Environmental Protection Agency Scott Pruitt,that he plans to leave a landmark international agreement on climate change.
Back home the energy minister assured viewers that the government had no intention of leaving the agreement…
‘What the United States does in relation to its domestic climate change policy is a matter for the Trump administration. All I can say is that we in Australia have committed to a 26-28 per cent reduction in our emissions by 2030,’ he said.
‘We are on target to meet that and we’ll continue to take all the domestic measurer necessary to stay true to the Paris agreement.’…
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2017/05/28/trump-leaves-g7-undecided-on-gas-accord.html
if I was a techie, i’d try to get a meme going, something like –
#save.science.depart.paris
but I don’t even know if u do it thru twitter or whatever, and I don’t use twitter anyway!
CAGW sceptics are not inclined towards collective action but, given the relentless pressure on Pres Trump from the CAGW mob, this should be one time the sceptics do something BIGLY to show support for withdrawal.
anyone got any suggestions how we could do something positive right now?
40
***how absurd is an obligation on suppliers “to cut the amount of energy they sell during the next decade”? u’d have to be crazy to go along with it:
28 May: Guardian: Adam Vaughan: UK lobbies Europe to dilute flagship energy efficiency law
Green campaigners warn Conservative efforts to undermine energy targets will lead to weaker climate policies after Brexit
The UK is lobbying Europe to water down a key energy-saving target despite the fact it will not take effect until after Brexit, according to leaked documents that sparked warnings that energy bills could rise and jobs put at risk.
On the day Theresa May triggered article 50, government officials asked the European commission to weaken or drop elements of its flagship energy efficiency law.
Green campaigners warned that the efforts to undermine the energy efficiency directive were a sign the Conservatives would dilute or abolish European energy and climate policies after the UK leaves the EU…
The European commission wants a binding target of improving energy efficiency 30% by 2030, compared with business-as-usual.
But documents obtained by Greenpeace, dated 29 March, show the UK urging the commission to lower the goal to 27% and make it non-binding on the EU’s 28 members. A more recent version, dated 22 May and seen by the Guardian, shows the UK has maintained its stance…
The UK is also pushing to drop an ***obligation on suppliers – including the big six of British Gas, EDF, E.ON, Npower, SSE and ScottishPower – ***to cut the amount of energy they sell during the next decade…
The UK is also pushing to drop an obligation on suppliers – including the big six of British Gas, EDF, E.ON, Npower, SSE and ScottishPower – to cut the amount of energy they sell during the next decade…
…the industry body that represents the big six and other energy suppliers welcomed the stance taken by the UK. “Market-based measures, rather than binding obligations, should be used to drive energy efficiency investment,” said Lawrence Slade, the chief executive of Energy UK…
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/28/uk-presses-europe-to-dilute-flagship-energy-efficiency-law
50
27 May: Breitbart: Michelle Moons: Report: Trump Tells Allies He Plans to Remove U.S. From Paris Climate Agreement
Breitbart News has ***independently confirmed this (Axios) reporting and that Trump has told others the same thing: that he plans to withdraw the U.S. from the agreement…
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/27/report-trump-tells-allies-he-plans-to-remove-u-s-from-paris-climate-agreement/
BBC seems to have simply inserted a line on Axios & changed the date of the article from 27 to 28 May! I posted it as a 27 May piece in jo’s previous “Psst” thread.
28 May: BBC: G7 talks: Trump isolated over Paris climate change deal
The Axios news site, quoting three sources, later reported that Mr Trump had told members of his inner circle that the US will withdraw from the Paris agreement…
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40069636
also carrying the story:
Daily Caller, Townhall, AAP, NY Mag, VOA, Deutsche Welle, HuffPo, emirates247, dnaIndia, & growing.
hopefully, DrudgeReport will pick it up soon.
40
“Paris was always pointless.” By no means. It is a great plan to make America and Europe insignificant, except as a milking cow.
100
It always gets down to the money. Pres. Trump wants to stimulate the economy. Instead of spending trillions to stop an unmeasurable amount of warming from occurring he decides to put people first.
Wow! What a concept!
140
Spend the money where it brings the maximum benefit. Not where it benefits only the green industrial complex.
70
The Paris agreement could fall,
If Donald J.Trump won’t play ball,
And decide to forego,
On their fake climate show,
Led by He who wears nothing at all.
210
Jo
Around this area
“In their newly published paper, ‘Role of atmospheric carbon dioxide in climate change‘( http://principia-scientific.org/publications/Role_of_CO2-EaE.pdf ), meteorologist Dr Martin Hertzberg and analytical chemist Hans Schreuder cite a plethora of data concerning what is known – and currently accepted – about the role of carbon dioxide in climate change (global warming).”
“The two highly qualified scientists found that:
“Nothing in the data supports the supposition that atmospheric CO2 is a driver of weather or climate, or that human emissions control atmospheric CO2.”
Any changes in CO2 levels are “overwhelmingly natural.”
Looking at the relationship between CO2 and climate over the past 400,000 years, the data indicate that human-caused CO2 emissions had no influence on the Earth’s temperature. ”
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2017/05/26/i-have-tbf-could-not-finish-normal-daily-diet/#comment-83652
60
The Australian
Trump To Abandon Climate Deal
US President has told EPA head Scott Pruitt that he plans to leave the landmark Paris Agreement on climate change.
60
‘Polls show the chancellor, in power since 2005, on course to be re-elected for a fourth term.’
The fuhrer is still popular after all these years, the people get the government they deserve, but in my mind its a weird hybrid democracy …. this fourth reich.
50
If President Trump pulls this off it will be the best news this century! The lies and waste of the climate change cartel are beyond belief. Now if only Australia had a leader that would put the people and prosperity of this nation ahead of of the green/Marxist/leftist destroyers we could really be happy.
120
I will be exceptionally disappointed if he doesn’t go through with abandoning this agreement.
43
The USA will be damned for eternity if Trump withdraws from the Paris agreement:
http://www.iflscience.com/environment/if-the-usa-exits-the-paris-agreement-this-is-what-will-happen/page-2/
There will be fire, flood and pestilence across the country. And if that is not bad enough all the poorer nations will suffer mass deaths that the USA will be responsible for.
But there is hope for the USA even if Trump withdraws. There will still be good countries doing the heavy lifting outside the USA and good States within the USA doing the right thing.
CO2 has been well cast as the modern Satan. The good angel turned bad by the sins of man.
50
Spread the word …..
“#FakeNews is the enemy!”
50
But if the news is, that the news is fake, then the fake news cannot be relied upon, for news, that says that the news is fake.
Best of luck convincing people about that.
40
Donald has a way with words, but George Orwell was better at it.
‘The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history.’
20
Well yes…and this is why most people shouldn’t own smart phones – it makes them think they are way smarter than they actually are.
The same goes for social media – most people should be banned from it, due to lack of logical thought….
00
From that link they must just make it up as they go.
52
The climate change believers are still at war with reality.That is a war that cannot be won.Sadly, they have and will cause great damage to the rest of us on their way to their final battle.This is a battle that WE must win.
00
Trumps first 100 plus days have been characterised by failure of many of his campaign promises.
He needs a big win in order to look like he can deliver the goods to his electors.
Climate change might be that election issue that he will choose to take a stand on by pulling out of the Paris deal.
Don’t hold your breath though, he is a very mercurial character
Tonyb
31
finkle finkle:
29 May: Sky News: Government leaves open possibility of EIS
The government has left open the possibility of adopting an Energy Intensity Scheme, just six months after internal backlash forced the Energy Minister to rule it out.
The plan could set a baseline for Carbon Dioxide emissions, allowing businesses with low emissions to sell credits to those which produce more.
Energy minister Josh Frydenberg says the scheme – aimed at reining in greenhouse gas emissions – could be considered in the Finkle (sic) report – to be handed down to the Government in two weeks.
‘Caution, wait for Finkle (sic), we recognise that there is a lot of ideas out there and then the government will come to its own solutions in its own time,’ Mr Frydenberg told Sky News on Sunday.
***’We are in a new world when it comes to energy policy because we have seen the most significant transition or transformation in more than a century.’…
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2017/05/29/government-leaves-open-possibility-of-eis.html
the mentality of the MSM!
28 May: UK Independent: Andrew Bunscombe: Donald Trump seems happy to destroy the planet. Only China and India can save us now
As the US wavers on climate change, many will hope Beijing and Delhi may step up to show leadership on saving the earth
Indeed, according to data released recently at a UN climate meeting in Germany, China and India should both easily exceed the targets they set for themselves in the 2015 Paris Agreement.
“Five years ago, the idea of either China or India stopping – or even slowing – coal use was considered an insurmountable hurdle, as coal-fired power plants were thought by many to be necessary to satisfy the energy demands of these countries,” said Bill Hare, of climate science not-for-profit Climate Analytics. “Recent observations show they are now on the way toward overcoming this challenge.”…
The best hope may now lie with the very people Trump once mocked as hoaxers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-climate-change-paris-accord-destroy-planet-india-china-a7760731.html
30
Wow…the MSM is desperate…..
But they shoudlnt spend too much time on theor fake news, or they will be late for their weekly Socialist Party meeting…..
00
I hope and pray that this is correct!
50
29 May: Oxfam: G7 goes AWOL under pressure: consensus crumbles at the expense of the world’s poorest people
“The one ray of hope was on climate: despite President Trump’s signaling that the United States does not stand with the rest of the world on the Paris Agreement, it is courageous that six of the G7 countries stood up to him and reaffirmed their commitment to deliver on the climate deal made in 2015. Oxfam urges the other countries to continue the dialogue with the United States to get them to accept the reality of climate change and to stay in the Paris Agreement.”…
28 May: Newsmax: Gingrich: Climate Pact Hurts Developing Countries
by Cathy Burke
“The working poor and the very poor on the planet get crushed by these kind of agreements,” Gingrich said of the Paris accord.
“So I am for more economic growth. Wealthier countries are better for the environment, poorer countries inevitably are harder for the environment.”…
“I’m very much for conservation,” Gingrich added. “You have to have countries wealthy enough that they can afford to save animals and wealthy enough that they can afford to save their ecosystem.”…
Democrat Manchin would like Trump to renegotiate “Paris” rather than withdraw, however:
27 May: Breitbart: Matthew Boyle: Exclusive — Sen. Joe Manchin: We Need to ‘Educate’ Gary Cohn ‘A Little Bit Better’ on Crucial Role of Coal
Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), a Democratic U.S. Senator from the heart of coal country in West Virginia, told Breitbart News exclusively that he was shocked and disappointed in White House National Economic Council director Gary Cohn’s anti-coal comments in Europe this week.
Manchin said in the exclusive interview that he hopes that Cohn will allow him to “educate” him more on his uninformed anti-coal standpoint, and that he looks forward to a deeper conversation with the official from President Donald Trump’s White House…
Manchin told Breitbart News:
“I’d tell Gary to check out the world consumption of coal, and tell India and tell China and tell all these different countries that are sometimes getting electrified for the first time—the first time in a developed nation or developing nation. That’s how the Obama administration was, and I guess it looks like I’m going to have to go and try and work on Gary and give a little history lesson. It’s a base load fuel. It’s simple. We can depend on it 24/7…
About 8 billion tons of coal is burned per year in the world. The United States of America burns less than one billion tons of coal a year, so we’re less than one eighth of the world’s consumption. That tells you seven eighths of all the coal in the world is being burnt somewhere else…READ ON
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/27/exclusive-sen-joe-manchin-we-need-to-educate-gary-cohn-a-little-bit-better-on-crucial-role-of-coal/
30
One wonders if Ollie is also on the gravy train:
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/olivia-doll-predatory-journals
Yes “Dr Olivia Doll” is a home grown WA legend!
40
Even if Trump does break off from the Paris deal it doesn’t mean Turnbull will follow suit and declare the alarmist yells about global warming is one big hoax. In fact the more time passes the more it appears Turnbull is deliberately doing all he can to lose the next election to the more left ALP without making it too obvious. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories but this one is getting harder and harder to rule out.
70
Go with your gut-feel. If it looks like a pig, grunts like a pig, and smells like a pig; the chances are, it is a pig.
Just remember that, at election time, when you are deciding which party to vote for.
50
I have already decided. My vote is not going to either major party. Anyone who votes for them is just saying “I want more of the same BS and I am willing to stay bent over to receive many more spanks so go ahead please, and do it harder so I start bleeding”.
40
Mary went off script, it seems.
only in Ghana is there any detailed reporting. can’t even find anything at the Commonwealth.org’s event website or at Mary’s website.
given “renewables” are the only CAGW “cure” on offer (an offer you can’t refuse at that), Mary should have known she’d get no MSM coverage whatsoever:
28 May: Ghana Business News: Renewable energy projects violating people’s rights – Mary Robinson
The rush to develop renewable energy projects is leading to violations of human and land rights, a former UN Human Rights Commissioner has warned.
Speaking at the Commonwealth’s Regenerative Development to Reverse Climate Change (RDRCC) conference in London, Mary Robinson cautioned: “It’s important to remain cognisant that not all action that is good for the planet is automatically good for people and I really want to emphasise that point because ***I did not appreciate it until relatively recently…
For instance, the World Bank had to admit that its 2010 geothermal energy project in Kenya, which it financed in conjunction with the European Investment Bank, failed to communicate in the local language with the Masai community in the Rift Valley.
The Bank also conceded that the people were not adequately compensated for the loss of their land and livelihood.
Addressing the RDRCC conference, Mrs Robinson, a former President of Ireland, said clean energy projects were being undertaken the wrong way by big companies.
“They’re doing it through big projects and they’re doing it without consultation.
“They’re taking away land rights from local communities [and] they’re not respecting the indigenous people’s right to informed consent, and so on,” she added…
In his contribution, Eniko Horvath, a senior researcher at the Centre said, “Despite the increasing investment [in renewable] we have been seeing, we did not see a real conversation around the human rights impacts that these companies are having.”…
https://www.ghanabusinessnews.com/2017/05/28/renewable-energy-projects-violating-peoples-rights-mary-robinson/
Prince Charles was there too (briefly, according to his introduction – not excerpted) – and AFP covered that, plus NZ TV and Arab News, and his remarks, calling for finance, have been posted:
18 May: Prince of Wales: A speech by HRH The Prince of Wales at the Regenerative Development to Reverse Climate Change event
It seems to me that the Commonwealth could represent a pivotal voice in these matters. After all, it includes almost a third of the world’s population, a fifth of its land mass and comprises a wide spectrum of national contexts – ranging from those most vulnerable to climate change, to those most responsible for it. Some in the North may be ambivalent (quite unbelievably) about the difference between a limit of 2 degrees or 1.5 degrees of global warming, but of course for some countries, particularly the small island developing states of the Commonwealth, the difference could scarcely be more critical as it may literally mean the survival of their countries or their extinction. This is precisely why I have been making such a fuss about tackling climate change for so many years as we face an existential crisis in every sense of the word and one that will affect many millions of people. And in this regard, it is perhaps particularly apposite that Fiji should have the Presidency of the U.N.F.C.C.C. C.O.P.23 this year.
The immediate imperative has to be to decarbonize our economies – and in this regard I would highlight the continuing leadership of Christiana Figueres and her Mission 2020 initiative – but we must also begin to make good the disruption that we have wrought upon the planet’s carbon-cycle. In short, to return our planet’s carbon to where it needs to be. Not in our atmosphere trapping excess heat, or in our oceans wiping out coral and undermining marine ecosystems, but in our trees and our forest landscapes helping to sustain our water systems, in our soils nourishing our agriculture and biodiversity and in the materials that our dangerously burgeoning population will desperately need in order to build a relatively manageable and sustainable environment for the future…
The compendium of solutions curated by Project Drawdown aptly demonstrates that the ideas we need are already out there, but they will not happen by chance. International discussions such as C.O.P. 23 must now be geared to this action agenda – focussing on the practical shifts in policy, governance and financial frameworks that are needed at all levels – from global to local – in order to incentivize stakeholders to do what is necessary. To this end, I very much applaud the attention this initiative is paying to the financial instruments and business models that can steer investment towards the infrastructures and patterns of land use that can avert 1.5C warming.
https://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/media/speeches/speech-hrh-the-prince-of-wales-the-regenerative-development-reverse-climate-change
30
I’d consider RETs to be the new “blood diamonds” of the developing world….
00
a different report, which has a contribution from Mary Robinson.
you can watch the video, but linking to this transformfinance report will only allow you to read the one-page summary, minus Mary’s contribution.
everyone involved is a CAGW/renewables advocate, but they do, at least, consider some of the negatives.
full briefing report requires signing in or, perhaps, being a member:
VIDEO: 22mins34secs: 23 May: 2 pages: Forbes: Devin Thorpe: Report Asks Investors To Respect Human Rights On Clean Energy Projects
Renewable energy projects are the primary weapon in the war on climate change, but that shouldn’t exempt these projects in the developing world from United Nations’ standards on human rights, argues a new briefing report (LINK).
As I explored the briefing, “Renewable Energy: Managing Investors’ Risks and Responsibilities,” with two of the co-authors, Andrea Armeni of Transform Finance and Meredith Benton (see my interview with them at the top of this article), I began to see clean energy projects through a new lens…
Mary Robinson, President, Mary Robinson Foundation, is quoted in the executive summary of the briefing saying, “It is not acceptable for any business to ignore their impacts on peoples’ land rights, security or livelihoods – the renewable energy sector is no different.”…
The briefing notes that the extractives industry has had to write off $379 million in assets due to “company-community conflicts.”
With global renewable energy projects totaling $$287 billion in 2016, there are a lot of projects happening. Falling prices for renewable energy technology and increasing demand for energy are likely to continue the trend of increasing investments in clean energy in the coming years.
Eventually, the report notes, the world will need to shift entirely to clean, renewable energy…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/devinthorpe/2017/05/23/human-rights-clean-energy/#4be65d1c2dec
20
O/T
Early snow for Australian Alps.
http://m.weatherzone.com.au/news/early-snow-heading-to-australian-alps/526429
52
btw Forbes is the only MSM covering the transformfinance report. CAGW Rule #1 is do not inform the public of any problem with “renewables”.
just spruik them:
29 May: news.com.au: Reuters: Thin Lei Win: Philippines urged to take on renewables
The Philippines can save $US200 million a year and build a more reliable energy supply for millions of residents on its small islands by replacing diesel generators with renewable sources such as wind and solar, according to a report.
The switch would require at least $US1 billion in private investment in the short term, but the sum would be offset by savings of $US200 million each year – an expense currently borne by users, the report said…
Modernising small island power systems with renewables will supply cheaper, efficient, secure, cleaner power, the report said.
“Renewable energy systems are not only sustainable but affordable and secure because there is no fuel requirements,” Sarah Ahmed, IEEFA’s energy finance analyst and the report’s main author, told the Thomson Reuters Foundation.
Since 2009, solar power costs have fallen by 90 per cent and that of wind power has fallen 50 per cent, the report said…
“Islands such as Sumba in Indonesia have already cut energy costs by 35 per cent by following the global trend towards renewables,” Jose Logarta, ICSC senior energy advisor and co-author of the report, said in a statement.
Sumba, a mountainous island in eastern Indonesia, is using a combination of wind, solar and small-scale hydropower to achieve 95 per cent renewable electricity for its 650,000 residents by 2025…
http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/breaking-news/philippines-urged-to-take-on-renewables/news-story/17f05c5c29ad32f6f57c53914c22913d
28 May: NT Times: Hazelwood power station closure costs Victoria $87.5m in lost royalties
by Anthony Galloway, Herald Sun
New figures provided to a Budget estimates inquiry reveal the revenue from the brown coal royalty tax is expected to fall by $27 million in 2017-18, $28 million in 2018-19 and $28 million in 2019-20…
***The figures have renewed calls for the government to set closure dates for the state’s remaining power stations, so there is certainty for revenue as well as the workers and affected communities…
The Opposition’s energy spokesman, David Southwick, said the government should have never raised the tax.
“Daniel Andrews gave the Hazelwood power station an ultimatum: shut down or pay $87.5 million in a new coal tax,” Mr Southwick said.
“Because of Daniel Andrews’ tax grab, Victoria’s energy supply has been slashed by 22 per cent and annual energy bills have already soared by an average of $300 per household.”
Victorian government spokesman Andrew Nelson said it was “grossly misleading” to suggest the change in the royalty rate was a factor in Hazelwood’s closure.
He said the closure of Hazelwood, which provided about 22 per cent of Victoria’s energy supply, would be partially offset by the other three coal-fired power stations in the Latrobe Valley increasing their generation.
Greens leader Greg Barber said dates needed to be set for the closure of the other Latrobe Valley power stations.
Mr Barber said the Yallourn power station would be the next plant to close.
“Once the new renewables come on line, electricity prices will go down and it is just a matter of time until Yallourn closes,” Mr Barber said.
“The government needs a plan for not just how we generate power, but the poles and wires as well. We need to upgrade our powerlines and lay out the closure dates for coal-fired power stations so that investors, workers and local communities are able to take some control of their future.”
http://www.ntnews.com.au/business/hazelwood-power-station-closure-costs-victoria-875m-in-lost-royalties/news-story/d00a50894b2387fe0e7d24d6726be572
40
“Mr Barber said the Yallourn power station would be the next plant to close.”
And where the heck does he think electrcity is going to come from when there is no wind ?
The guy is a low-level, non-thinking, brain-washed bozo !!
72
Doesn’t electricity come from power sockets?
51
They keep promising that electricity prices will go down with renewables but they just keep going up.
How can they keep saying this nonsense?
How is it even possible for renewables to be cheaper when you need hundreds or even thousands of windmills to replace just one power station and to make that power dispatchable as per a proper power station you need a battery pack the size of which the world has never seen to account for all realistic scenarios of no wind or a monstrously huge pumped hydro scheme not to mention huge amounts of transmission lines.
The people who make these claims don’t have the slightest amount of engineering knowledge or common sense.
Like the Gangrene mentioned, I too hope Yallourn closes soon because the sooner this country is bought to a monumental economy destroying power crisis the better. A lingering death is just too painful. Just collapse the economy as the Elites and Gangrenes want and be done with it.
I hope Mr Trump will accept educated and self-supporting refugees from Australia when that happens.
82
Dont worry…it will take the death of someones loved one on an operating table as the power goes out, for it to truly sink in…
Andrews could face his own Nikolai Ceacescu ( political ) moment….
People have very long memories….expecially when thier own comrades ( figuratively ) stab them in the back….
I wouldnt be surprised if Andrews wisely considers and overseas post once hes has been slung out of office, and then an adult will take over….
10
when it comes to coal, however, ABC is always ready with the negative spin:
29 May: ABC Breakfast: Loan refusal puts Adani mine at risk again
State Cabinet has finally settled on a royalties framework for the Queensland project — but critically — is refusing to facilitate a potential $900 million concessional loan from the Federal Government.
Environmental lawyers say the decision effectively leaves Adani’s plans for the mega mine in tatters…
however, by lunch-time today, ABC had:
ABC Environment News
Queensland Government will facilitate potential Adani loan, Treasurer says
Posted about 2 hours ago
it started with this. Conservation Council, GetUp & Justice mob get the biggest say:
ABC: ‘Major spanner in the works’ of Adani coal mine, says conservation council
Posted Saturday (27 May) at 21:04
The future of Australia’s biggest mining project in remote central Queensland is in doubt after the Queensland Government decides not to facilitate a potential $900 million federal loan…
In a press conference held on Saturday morning, the Deputy Premier Jackie Trad also announced that the Government would not facilitate any loan funds from the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility (NAIF).
“We have determined as a Cabinet that any money that is sourced from the NAIF for the rail line needs to come directly from the Commonwealth to the proponent, to Adani particularly,” Ms Trad said…
Federal Resources and Northern Australia Minister, Matt Canavan, told the ABC the announcement had caused confusion.
“They seemingly cannot get anything right, I welcome the fact that they have finalised a royalty deal but they have now created more confusion by opening up questions about support for the NAIF so they will have to answer those questions I can’t,” Senator Canavan said…
Adani rail project no longer on track
Tim Seelig from the Queensland Conservation Council said the decision would cast doubt on the project. “It’s actually really big — essentially what the Queensland Government is now saying is that it would not support or administer the funds if they were approved for that loan to the Adani coal mine project for the rail line, so this puts a major spanner in the works now for that federal loan to Adani, which we don’t think should be happening in the first place,” Dr Seelig said…ETC
Queensland Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls said the decision put the project at risk.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if Adani simply say this is all too hard, I’m sorry Annastacia Palaszczuk you’ve mucked it up you’ve created too much uncertainty and we’re not going to proceed,” he said.
“This is just dumb, quite frankly it’s a dumb announcement from a dumb government.”…
Activist groups welcome move
GetUp campaigner Ellen Roberts was among activist groups to welcome the State Government’s decision.
“This means that Adani is not going to be getting those funds on the timeframe that it expected,” she said…ETC ETC
In a statement, Environmental Justice Australia lawyer David Barnden said the Commonwealth could not legally fund projects through NAIF without the provision of the states…ETC ETC ETC
“It appears to prevent a risky subsidy $1 billion subsidy for a commercially unviable rail project,” he said…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-27/adani-coal-mine-in-doubt-over-qld-stance-on-federal-loan/8565940
to add to ABC’s confusion, instead of sticking to the –
“Queensland Government will facilitate potential Adani loan, Treasurer says”
headline which still shows up in google results and on ABC’s environment page, ABC decided to change the headline to:
29 May: ABC: Queensland Government confirms ‘middleman’ role in possible Adani loan after Deputy Premier sparks confusion
Treasurer Curtis Pitt told ABC Brisbane the state would do what was required.
“Our role, for constitutional reasons, is the legal financing contract, the loan agreement including the drawdown and timing, repayment of interest — all of those things have to have state involvement constitutionally,” he said…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-29/queensland-government-to-play-ball-over-adani-loan:-treasurer/8568348
20
compare ABC on coal to Guardian on so-called “renewables”:
28 May: Guardian: Lucy Siegle: The eco guide to renewable energy
Solar power is soaring, wind goes from strength to strength. Look for a mighty surge in renewables over the next few years
One day in late March, during a sunny weekend, something spectacular happened. Solar power broke a new record. The demand for daytime electricity in UK homes fell to night times levels – thanks to solar panels in roofs and fields. Thanks to the sunshine, solar power created six times more electricity than coal-fired power stations that day…
Renewables are now fundamental to the UK’s electricity system, accounting for a quarter of the country’s power during 2015…
But over the next three years it is likely you’ll become part of the revolution as consumers and businesses defect from the grid, using solar, wind power, smart-demand response systems and electric vehicles (EVs)…
Embrace the jolt, it will be huge.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/28/the-eco-guide-to-renewable-energy
20
pat
but what the guardian article does not say is that coal fired power stations were left running to account for potential solar fluctuation. we will move increasingly to gas and also in the distant future nuclear for our base power. a cloudy weekend with no wind will spell disaster for renewables generation.
that problem (together with the small problem of night time solar power!) will go unresolved until much better storage facilities are available.
50
Yes tony, inter-mittent-needing-back-up solar and wind
power 2.5 to 5x more expensive than coal and nuclear technology.
https://stopthesethings.com/2016/09/08/wind-solar-power-2-5-to-5-times-more-expensive-than-coal-nuclear/
Hope yr new climate history paper will soon be posted.
20
beth
ah well, its only money which is frankly just getting in the way as I trip over wads of bank notes lying all over the floor.
If I didn’t spend it on expensive and intermittent renewables I would just be walking along the beach tearing up £20 notes and throwing them into the waves…
30
Do yer want me ter send more euros, tony? )
20
I too used to donate to Caritas. Following the above reference I was amazed to look at their site and find their focus on Climate Justice.
No more for me!!!
60
So far the Australian Federal Government maintains that regardless of what the US decides Australia will remain on course.
In other words the big spenders using Australian taxpayer’s borrowed monies to donate to their UN and IPCC socialist comrades are in panic mode behind the scenes trying to work out how to explain exposure of the political agenda.
They deserve a huge voter punishment and the other side of politics, the union controlled Union Labor partnership does not deserve to be rewarded because on this they are one and the same, all on the one page.
51
The problem is we have no alternative government. It is Turnbull Party / Gangrenes or Labor / Gangrenes or Tunbull Party / Labor. It doesn’t really matter, they are almost equally bad. There are not enough independent conservatives to form Government and we have no Trump.
63
read all:
28 May: StopTheseThings: Businesses Belted by Australia’s Renewable Energy Target: Power Prices Spiral Out of Control
Australia’s Renewable Energy policy is an economic suicide pact, from which there is no escape…
Manufacturers, miners and mineral processors are screaming blue murder as they watch once reliable and affordable power supplies destroyed by ideologically driven lunatics wedded to the delusion that sunshine and breezes actually provide meaningful power.
Australia’s telecommunications businesses are not immune from the insanity…
Telstra power costs up $100m as energy crisis bites industry, The Australian, by Sarah Martin, 27 May 2017
Telstra has warned the federal government its power costs have surged by more than $100 million in the past year, with a senior executive calling on Industry Minister Arthur Sinodinos for urgent action to address the crisis.
Speaking at a meeting between the minister and Australian Industry Group’s national council this week, Telstra’s group executive of corporate affairs, Tony Warren, is understood to have outlined concerns about the harm inflicted on the telco’s operations by spiralling power costs…
Telstra would not confirm the $100m figure, but said it was attempting to respond to rising energy prices. “We are one of Australia’s largest users of electricity,” a spokesman said…READ ALL
https://stopthesethings.com/2017/05/28/businesses-belted-by-australias-renewable-energy-target-power-prices-spiral-out-of-control/
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original Fairfax headline from search results/url: “Council joins fight against wind farm”
29 May: Port Pirie Recorder (Fairfax): Residents celebrate Port Pirie council decision to oppose energy park development
by Patrick Martin
As the battle over a proposed windfarm and energy park development in the Southern Flinders intensifies, concerned residents of Beetaloo Valley and Crystal Brook have a new ally in Port Pirie Regional Council.
The proposed plan by Neoen Energy hit another hurdle on Wednesday night, as PPRC voted to “actively oppose” the plan in line with their development policy for the zone.
The energy park would see 16 wind farm towers installed at the southern beginnings of the Flinders Ranges around Crystal Brook and Beetaloo Valley. Plans also include the installation of a solar farm and battery storage units west of the ranges.
The area proposed for many of the wind farm towers sits in council’s Ranges Zone as identified in the municipality’s 2013 Development Plan. This plan states that this zone should be protected from developments which impact the “scenic amenity of the area”.
Beetaloo Valley resident Jim Spry said if the development goes ahead the whole region will feel the impact.
“You will see the turbines from Port Pirie. You can see them from the moon, quite frankly,” Jim said…READ ON
http://www.portpirierecorder.com.au/story/4693228/council-joins-fight-against-wind-farm/
29 May: Irish Examiner: Anne Lucey: Kerry wind farm ‘a threat’ to Sliabh Luachra area
Locals in Sliabh Luachra have warned a “whole way of life of a historic community” is being threatened by proposals for some of the biggest wind turbines in Co Kerry.
Tralee-based Silver Birch Renewables has submitted a planning application for 14 turbines which will have a blade tip up to 150m from the ground level.
The proposed farm will stretch for more than 8km between Ballydesmond and Gneeveguilla.
Objectors say houses on the Cork borderland side of Ballydesmond will suffer as much as on the Kerry side…
“They would be the among the highest wind turbines in the country,” a spokesman warns. So far, Kerry County Council has received 50 formal objections and a group objection of 180 signatures.
Killarney councillor Brendan Cronin warned the project could be divisive.
“This could have a devastating effect on families. It splits communites,” said Mr Cronin.
Resident Shaun O’Rourke, whose home is 500m from a proposed turbine, said: “The go-ahead of these turbines would have a catastrophic environmental impact on the area as it is a haven for wildlife and there are four endangered birds nesting in the area. Soil excavation from the work would encourage Japanese knotweed to grow profusely and there would be huge damage to flora, fauna, and fish.
“In fact, our whole way of life is threatened.”
Mr O’Rourke also noted local fears about health risks and also a threat to local turf cutting rights.
The Sliabh Luachra Windfarm Awareness Group said, with the backing of the community and local councillors, it is doing “everything” in its power to prevent planning…
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kerry-wind-farm-a-threat-to-sliabh-luachra-area-451120.html
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***shut them down permanently is the best option?
9 May: Stuff NZ: Janine Rankin: Fresh approaches coming for wind farm noise
A two-pronged attack has been launched on resolving noise problems at the Te Rere Hau wind farm near Palmerston North.
After receiving 1750 complaints and after several court actions, the city council has moved to change the conditions of New Zealand Windfarms’ consent to operate.
It has called for public submissions on new noise rules, which will be considered by its hearing committee.
And early this year, NZ Windfarms underwent major structural changes, with new commercial director John Worth working to ***cut back on the amount of time the turbines operate and create noise…
It was planning a “curtailment” regime, which would see the turbines operating less often, with one of the benefits to the company being savings on wear and tear, and extending the life of the turbines.
New software would instruct the turbines to ***close down when wind conditions were turbulent, to reduce damage…
Another issue for the company was that at times the returns for generating power at the wind farm were low.
Particularly, prices were lower in summer, especially in the evenings.
“If we are not making much money then, that’s an opportunity for us to do something for those people who want to open the windows on a summer evening and have a barbecue.”…
“We think that with ***clever software and analysis we can shift the dial on what noise the community is experiencing.”…
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/92365387/fresh-approaches-coming-for-wind-farm-noise
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So, umm, let me if I have got this right.
The turbines operate at a 30% Capacity Factor, in other words, they are only operating for 30% of the time.
Now they want to have them operating for even less time when they actually are operating.
Seriously, you just can’t make this stuff up!
Tony.
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Tony,
It is similar to “my fuel tank lasts me for a year”.
It is immaterial that I rarely take the car out.
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on the cost of wind power in Ontario, Canada:
28 May: ParkerGallantEnergyPerspectives: What good is wind power?
(Parker Gallant is a regular contributor to the Financial Post on matters related to the energy sector)
https://parkergallantenergyperspectivesblog.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/what-good-is-wind-power/
Dec 2016: Financial Post: Parker Gallant: The day Ontario’s wind-power tyranny ends there will be dancing in the streets
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/the-day-ontarios-wind-power-tyranny-ends-there-will-be-dancing-in-the-streets
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I have just been running through a Reuters article;
Trump’s Paris accord call will be anticlimactic
The author makes the claim that because so many nations are now signed up for the Paris accord , the Americans under Trump pulling out of the Paris Accord really aren’t going to make much of a difference as not only a lot of nations signed up but so have cities and states and etc.
And the claim is made that it could even cost the Americans due to the loss of the economic incentives and economic boot up to be gained from fighting the dreaded “Climate Change.”
To quote TonyfromOz ; “Seriously, you just can’t make this stuff up!”
Unfortunately somebody just has!
The sheer utter chutzpah and arrogance and outright ignorance and incredible narrowness of vision of the realities and size and power of the global climate and all its innumerable physical manifestations, mankind’s utter powerlessness when Nature decides to get serious seems to have completely escaped the fly sized intellect of the media johnnies who write and post this level of blatantly ignorance driven opinion drivel.
Nowhere in this article is there any mention anywhere on the role that Nature herself / itself might decide to take a hand in the type and level of climate happenings and weather might develop into over the next decade/ century or anything in between or after.
The whole article like so many one can find almost everywhere these days is riddled with an arrogance and a belief that mankind can control Nature and that mankind has sinned against Gaia by using coal and oil and electricity to make the very items and provide the very comforts that the writers of this pathetic level of absolute drivel enjoy in whilst writing the aforesaid ignorant drivel.
There appears to be no concept at any level with these opinion writers of the immensity and power of Nature in its raw state.
They seemingly have never left the offices and their heated cars and armchairs to sample the open ocean far from land in a small boat.
Or sat in a sailplane tens of thousands of feet above the vast landscape beneath them with only a couple of millimetres of glass fibre protecting them from the harshness of the world outside and potential death.
They apparently have never experienced the truly awesome and frightening power of even a moderate sized thunderstorm close up as it bursts around one whether on a hill top or whilst thermalling in a glider under a brewing thundercloud.
They apparently have never gazed across the immensity of a vast desert in true awe where only wild things go during the heat of the midday Sun.
Or the vast near lifeless fields of bitterly cold frozen Antarctic Ice.
Nature and her moods and whims and fits of apparent anger and her spectacular displays across a whole planet simply do not not exist or count in the minds in the highly paid, protected from reality, ivy towered and air conditioned experiences of the shrew like mentality of those media opinion writers.
And so Nature and everything associated with Nature and the natural world around us is summarily discounted and dismissed and not even mentioned in the pathetic posturings and scribblings of those same media opinion writers.
If we are to take those posturings to the ultimate level then only the awe inspiring weak as piss efforts of a band of a climate cultist believers will be responsible for “saving the planet” according to those shrew like mentality media opinion writers.
And even to “save the planet” from the dreaded Climate Change you have to be a signator to the Paris Accords and a member of the inner climate cultist club if one takes the media’s opinion writers scribblings to their to the ultimate conclusions.
Otherwise all your best efforts to “save the planet” from “climate change” will come to nought as the media opinion writers have so clearly decreed .
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Its raw ignorance and arrogance mixed with rampant socialism and as always “the ends justifies the means/ win at any cost” corrosive approach to running a country. However the communal group hug of the socialist climate kooky club leaves me cold…
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The Tower of Babel that is the Climatism Cult, is a Trojan Horse of UN eco-Marxist totalitarian administration. The date of creeping realisation begins at 2020 reaching implementation by 2030. The euphemistically named ‘UN post 2015 Agenda for Sustainable Development’ sets out the goals. A trawl around UN sites indicates to me quite clearly that it is a global administration in waiting.
The EU is the foundation of this effort, and represents an eco-Marxist proto-global Administration. Brexit was a kick in the nuts and a potential US Clexit would be a follow-up round house kick to the head. May that happen.
What beggars belief is the apparently infinite resource of Global gullibility fostered by political correctness that has allowed the incremental disintegration of civilised society, freedom and prosperity. Make no mistake, we are at war for our liberty, our lives and our future.
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29 May: ReNews: EU ‘urged’ to decarbonise
IIGCC calls for more ambition ahead of talks on energy union package
Some 135 European investors with €18 trillion in assets under management have called on the EU to show greater ambition in the region’s energy package.
In a letter to the European Commission, member states and the European Parliament, the Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change (IIGCC) set out a framework for the EU to consider including a long-term decarbonisation objective to 2050 aligned with the objectives of the Paris climate agreement…
The letter also calls for a minimum and binding EU energy efficiency target of 30%.
It was sent ahead of talks on 30 May on the energy union package, IIGCC said…
“Nothing less will create the robust regulatory framework for future EU energy regulation sufficient to give investors the confidence we need to provide the many trillions of capital required to secure the low carbon transition across the EU and help deliver the pace and scale of global climate action necessary to implement the Paris Agreement.”
http://renews.biz/107210/eu-urged-to-decarbonise/
29 May: Townhall: Paul Driessen & and Mark J. Carr: Dear Mr. President: Please Exit Paris
Are you are still wondering whether to Exit Paris? Overseas and US officials, environmentalists and bureaucrats urge you to Remain. But you promised voters you would Exit. Please keep your promises…
Why ask corporations about Remain or Exit Paris? They pass Remain-driven energy costs on to consumers. Instead, ask consumers about ever-increasing energy bills. You’ll get a different answer…
Carbon dioxide makes plants grow faster and better. Atmospheric CO2 levels trail rather than lead warming. Water vapor is a much more potent greenhouse gas. Thanks to carbon dioxide, agricultural productivity increased over recent decades by over $3.2 trillion. Scientists project up to $10 trillion more in improved crop yields over the coming decades.
Climate science is absolutely not settled. Smart scientists who support you prove there’s no credible path to climate cataclysm due to fossil fuel use and CO2 increases. Doomsayers have gotten rich by peddling false, alarmist, anti-scientific claims, while the rest of us have suffered. This must not continue…
To support Exit Paris, you should reverse the absurd, scientifically unsupportable claim that carbon dioxide “endangers” our welfare…READ ON
https://townhall.com/columnists/pauldriessen/2017/05/29/dear-mr-president-please-exit-paris-n2332730
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29 May: AmericanThinker: Rex Tillerson: Dark Knight of the Hoax
By Mark Musser
Let’s cut to the chase. The coal lobby and the natural gas lobby are dueling over the captain’s share of the U.S. electricity-generating market. As The Donald would say, “The stakes are yuge.” Americans spend almost $400 billion a year on electricityRecent figures have natural gas fueling 34% of this market and coal 31%. Percentages fluctuate monthly. Twenty-sixteen was the year natural gas surpassed coal. When the climate caper gained traction, in the late 1980s, coal enjoyed a near-60% market share, while natural gas held only 10%. With this in mind, one plotter around Trump’s table looms ominous…
The second transformation occurred in 2010 with ExxonMobil’s $31-billion merger-acquisition of XTO Energy Inc, then the USA’s largest independent natural gas producer. In a stroke, ExxonMobil went from being a minor player in the natural gas business to vying with Shell for the title of world’s largest privately owned natural gas company…
Natural gas is the Climate Industrial Complex’s dark horse. The Climate Change Business Journal does not even recognize natural gas, per se, as a climate industry…To purists, the $1.5-trillion-a-year Climate Industrial Complex consists only of the makers and mongers of solar panels, wind turbines, electric cars, bio-fuels, etc. There is no room in their inn for a “fossil fuel” industry whose existence predates the climate campaign…
While environmentalists resist acknowledging an alliance with multinational oil corporations, there is no denying that one exists. BP, Shell, and now ExxonMobil cavalierly demonize carbon dioxide as a pollutant as they promote compliance with the Paris Accord. They fervently contend that their cannibalization of coal-generated electricity is essential to achieving compliance. Conversely, they also at times claim that the coal-to-gas switchover is entirely market-driven.
The coal, natural gas, and electricity industries are so distorted by regulation, from extraction to invoice, that any real cost-benefit analysis seems practically impossible. Insights into this conundrum can be garnered in a February 2017 quote from a discernably anxious U.S. Energy Information Administration: “Without the Clean Power Plan, there is less incentive to switch from carbon-intensive coal to less carbon-intensive natural gas or carbon-free fuels such as wind and solar. In the scenario where the Clean Power Plan is not implemented, coal again becomes the leading source of electricity generation by 2019.” In other words, absent climate activism, American electricity generation quickly reverts to coal…
Forget “Exxon knew.” How about an “Exxon knows” campaign? The company’s controllers, following Chairman Tillerson, know full well that “global warming” is a hoax, yet they exploit this Big Lie to forcibly capture customers for their surplus natural gas.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/05/rex_tillerson_dark_knight_of_the_hoax.html
28 May: Las Vegas Review-Journal: Renewable energy lobbyists lack faith in renewable energy
By Victor Joecks
That’s why the claims made by “green” energy advocates ring hollow as they push to increase Nevada’s renewable portfolio standard from 25 percent by 2025 to 50 percent by 2030…
But if renewable energy is everything its supporters claim, why are they afraid of free and open competition? If renewable energy really is cheaper than other forms of energy, you won’t need a mandate to make people buy it…
If renewable energy did everything its supporters claim, Nevada wouldn’t need to hike its renewable portfolio standard to increase demand for renewables. Their insistance on a mandate shows that they don’t trust the claims they make about their own product.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/victor-joecks/renewable-energy-lobbyists-lack-faith-in-renewable-energy/
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It is a puzzle though that while Breitbart trumpets that Trump is telling everyone the US will Clexit, he is busy saying he will make an announcement. Why? Did he just want to listen and not have confrontation on his first big trip? Did he want everyone to make their arguments in case he had missed something? Or did he want to float the idea and see what the real reaction would be, like most politicians.
Turnbull like Rudd is always leaking ideas without costing them or formally announcing them. Even better, Turnbull gets someone like Morrison to float the ideas and if they are popular he takes credit and if they are howled down, he blames Morrison. Of course Turnbull is trying to make sure that neither Morrison nor Bishop can challenge for his job, so he spends his time doing things like this, undermining from the top. Now if he could only get Tony Abbott to leave, he would be safe with his one seat majority, at least until the next election.
Still it will be a great day when Trump announces CLEXIT. Windmills are the greatest social tragedy of the 21st century. Massive expense and sacrifice for no benefit at all but like all such waste including our absurd Renewables Tax, the money does not vanish, it just enriches random strangers for nothing at all.
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We’ll see what the political realities will allow Trump to actually do in short order. Sometimes your desire to slug your antagonist has to be tempered with some consideration of how much you may need that antagonist. And that’s the fine art of logrolling whereby if I need someone’s help to get something done I can only get it by doing something for him in return that I really don’t want to do.
In this case I hope Trump goes ahead and shoves his fist against the face of the whole climate change world. But what the reality is may be another story.
Tales from this, that or the other source are just that, tales until we know from the president himself.
BB
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