Cory Bernardi outlines legislation that has just passed banning *old-style* 2-stroke motors from 2019 — meaning lawn mowers, leaf blowers, chainsaws, weed whackers, and outboard boat motors. In Australia mowers and fishing tinnies are heritage material. It’s a new carbon tax by stealth, pretending to be about health.
h/t to Tim Blair who adds a movie of Australians dancing with lawn mowers for the Sydney Olympic opening ceremony (just to give you foreigners some appreciation of how attached Australians are to them).
Stock up now. You may not be able to buy them (legally) after 2019. I predict a high black market value decent prices for “Vintage models on ebay”.
Bernardi argues that theoretically this ruling could be extended to farm machinery, quad bikes, and off road dirt bikes.
Why did One Nation vote for this? Oops… UPDATE: And here’s the answer from Malcolm Roberts, who argues it is not about CO2 but about real pollution.
At Tim Blairs: Commenter Bruce there suggest this will apply to some model aircraft engines too.
Commenter P Temperatures will plummet and we’ll be thrown back into an ice age
The Australian standards will be based on the USA EPA rules but, to make it easier for importers, outboards with certification in the USA, EU, Canadian and California (CARB) will all pass.
AMEC says in its news release on this matter that exemptions for small outboard engines were never an idea that would carry water. “With a carbie 8hp two stroke pushing out 59 per cent more emissions per hour than a 150hp four-stroke outboard, exemptions were never viable,” Fooks from Blue Sky Alliance says.
11:30pm HEADLINE edited to add *old style* to show that two-strokes are not banned entirely, just the current models. So this is about increasing the cost of this equipment, Bernardi argues it’s been done for CO2 reasons. Roberts position is that it’s for health reasons.
This has gone far enough.
In a country where we have out of control health issue arising from drug and alcohol use, where we have arguably one of the highest youth suicide rates in the world, where we are heading down the mine shaft in terms of clean electrical power generation and hence industry closures; our glorious leaders want to stop the use of model aircraft, tractors, motor bikes and grass whippers and mowers that are petrol powered.
Let’s elect people who will guarantee to work to increase employment and job opportunities, who will work to make our country great, once again and who will act in the best interests of all who live here.
This is close to the last straw when you think of all of the important and very real issues that seem to vanish from peoples minds as soon as they cross the border into Canberristan.
KK
442
They’re bloody wnakers the lot of em, who the hell cares what some autocrat in Eurasia thinks about how Australians go about their lives, how about they focus on continuing to destroy what culture they have left and but out of our business, seriously if any twerp want’s to regulate or confiscate my property because a pack of spineless desk jockeys in Canbrristan want to suck up to bureaucratic Eurotrash then they’d better be prepared for things to get ugly very quickly.
I cant believe how fast this country went downhill, the rise of the mediocre bred results just as it suggests.
284
Do you remember when European Standards were under consideration for Australia on Bullbars?
I remember the ridiculous political comments that we could remove them when we are entering city limits – until it was pointed out that most have driving lights and antennas mounted, and how could service points handle the volume of country vehicle traffic every day, arriving and leaving.
After considerable lobbying by bar manufacturers and installers, motoring organisations and others our politicians backed away from their plan to adopt EU regulation.
Around that time a UK engineer explained the frustration there regarding EU Standards, for example banning tried and proven double deck buses, replace the UK Government fleet to satisfy Europeans.
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I remember they tried to legislate out the fixed 4-5 poster bullbars as they were considered dangerous to pedestrians, an alternative lay-back design was tried but was found to cause more damage as the person/animal was flung further over the vehicle than if they were stopped and caught in the fixed ones, I’ve been in a few vehicles that have hit roos including a bull and the ones with 4 posters all drove away with minimal damage the ones without mostly were un-driveable or badly damaged, if your going to get hit by a car its going to bloody hurt regardless of what Brussels approved device is installed.
163
Im glad we won the one with the bull bars. I live in the country and getting home from shopping would be risky without a bull bar. Team that with the increasing number of roos because we are not allowed to do anything about them and it would be super expensive as I would have to get about 3 or 4 new cars a year. One thing about Canberristan I really like is the number of roos in the town itself is phenomenal. Bit of a taste of their own medicine for a change. That is probably why they didnt bring in the ban.
11
It’s not really all that bad.
I have a four stroke Honda lawnmower that I bought around 1994, it’s never been serviced, had two oil changes, doesn’t smoke and still starts first pull of the chord.
I have a Husqvarna chainsaw that’s two stroke, but uses their X-Torq (http://www.huskychainsaws.co.uk/acatalog/4_stroke_versus_2_stroke.html) technology, which is close to four stroke when it comes to emissions, but better in other regards. I suspect that Husqvarna and similar will put a case forward, especially if these are acceptable in Europe.
We have a Honda four stroke generator. It’s the quietest thing around compared to any two stroke generator.
I’ll be glad to see that end of two stroke trail bikes. We go bush all the time and the noise from two stroke trail bikes, especially riders that remove the mufflers and exhaust baffles is just a tad annoying.
In so many smaller applications, four stroke engines have proven to be economical, reliable, quiet and good performers.
The other thing with four stroke is none of this mixing two stroke oil with petrol and trying to get the right mixture, especially if you have multiple two stroke engines that all use a different ratio. In the long run, four stroke engines are a lot better and easier to manage.
63
Neither a trail bike user nor have any lawns to mow but I point out that the end result is that both devices will have to be “environmentally responsible”. Should be quite interesting watching (from a safe distance) someone using a sail powered trail bike.
50
Yeah I have a 60 hp Yamaha on my boat. Not looking for an award though. Geez how much intrusion can a person endure. Hey! We fight back and tell those who would impose such to get f…ed!
70
I never liked two stroke petrol motors. I always reckoned they were too heavily dependent on good luck to go. And I don’t accept the Husqvarna claim that a four stroking two stroke is cleaner, either. That looks like a sales blurb to hide the fact that if you tune it to run two stroke it delivers heaps more power but quickly wears out..
Back to the topic. Whose idea was it to introduce this legislation? To me it smells of exotic origin.
Between this, the climate change/power supply fiasco and the SSM issue, which I see as a small group of people, far smaller than the number who live in same sex relationships, are trying to hijack our kids to their way of life, we are surely heading fast into some awful social turmoil.
60
Agree all the way Ted.
30
If this includes chainsaws then logging and firewood will be back to the axe as it doesn’t look like there are any 4 stroke saws as yet.
But that may be part of the grand plan
90
Ian, hasn’t The Old Dart already banned internal combustion engines? To start soon!
00
Stihl makes a four stroke chainsaw: http://www.stihl.com.au/4-mix-engine-lightweight-and-with-good-lugging-power.aspx and I’ll bet that others will follow.
Also, existing two stroke engines won’t be banned (for the moment anyway), much like leaded petrol engines weren’t banned. As long as you can get two stroke oil, it’s not so bad.
It’s not so much getting rid of two stroke engines, it’s more about the process, especially giving dealers the chance to manage stock etc. Two stroke engines are sold just about everywhere. Every small hardware store will have two stroke garden tools of one sort or another.
10
Until we get rid of these”Dumb-A$$”politicians,the”Public Serpents”who control them and get out of the UN,nothing will change.
71
Fiddling with the deck chairs while the ship sails on a sea filled with imaginary icebergs comes to mind.
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The lunatics are in charge of the asylum that used to be sane and known as Australia.
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Actually our lunatics are controlled by the foreign lunatics now in control of the UN.
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There’s an older group, too, that I call The Pommie Commies!
51
I trust that the legislation takes into account modern 2-stroke high-pressure fuel/oil injection technology that reduces emissions to equivalent of 4-stroke motors?
It was originally Australian engineer Ralph Sarich Orbital Engine Patented technology but several 2-stroke motor manufacturers offer the technology, or similar, for motor cycles and scooters, outboard boat motors, etc.
I have experience using a Honda 130 HP 4-stroke outboard motor and at present a 2-stroke 25 HP Mercury outboard motor which does not have the injected system. The 2-stroke is lighter and provides for a faster onto plane performance.
A well maintained 2-stroke with carburettor petrol/oil mix operation has relatively low emissions. A worn 4-stroke blows smoke.
132
Don’t forget the added costs of repairs of reconditioning, years ago every motocross bike was a two stroke because they made good power and were relatively cheap to maintain, so simple and efficient the average home workshed could pull a motor apart and back together in half a day easy, now if an exotic multi-valve headed four stroke needs work you need specialty tools and expensive parts to maintain the simplest of repairs, I know of some MX racers that buy a new or used motor instead of repairing theirs because its cheaper, also when things do go bang more components mean more damage means more cost, whats going to happen to your warranty when an exotic EU choked four stroke burns out every 12 months?
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Did you see this quote from those in the industry who are pushing this .
“Dealers who embrace the changes, and move buyers toward clean engines will gain better margins and more service work, claims Fooks from Blue Sky Alliance.”
Very telling .
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Bribery.
60
Indeed, always ask who benefits.
70
ONE NATION the bloody traitors !
Any more proof needed about our mainstream political parties , did the Nats vote in favour ?
Sack them all then tar and feather them and then send them to Manus island for 20 years , enough is enough .
This is softening us up for the next move which will be banning fossil fuel cars .
242
Trouble with O.N is that they’re pretty dopey. I can agree with their general drift on many matters,but unfortunately they are sort of brain dead and speak for people who have the inability to tie their shoelaces. Why not back Corey’s mob.
42
This new legislation following Euro Standard will be extended to Diesel engine vehicles in the not too distant future, I understand. They will attract a tax at point of new sale and if European experience is followed they will be banned from urban areas, particularly CBDs.
I am looking to buy a new 4WD at this time and I am wondering if another Diesel would me a mistake, penalties to be applied and resale value in 5-10 years time. My present Diesel is now five years old and 200,000 Kms travelled. And after a new EGR valve has very low exhaust soot emissions.
The alternative for me is a V6 Petrol 4WD which means an extra 2-7 Litres / 100 Kms depending on road conditions and towing.
What’s next? Electric vehicles and Hybrids?
My research has revealed that many vehicle manufacturers have been reducing the cubic capacity and upgrading fuel system, turbo and intercooler technology to achieve the same power and torque from lower capacity. Apparently this makes meeting European Standard easier and less expensive.
One Indian manufacturer, Mahindra & mahindra, I read about when Googling is dropping it’s Austrian designed and manufactured Diesel from 2.2 Litres down to 1.9 Litres. Mitsubishi has dropped from over 3.0 Litres to now 2.4 Litres for it’s 4M40 Diesel.
However Volvo has announced that from 2019 they will not produce vehicles with conventional Petrol or Diesel, only EVs and Hybrids.
Considering the history of firstly Unleaded Petrol and then Zero Sulphur Diesel, and the enormous cost of converting Oil Refineries and vehicle motors, and now this new attack leading to electric only vehicles if the madness continues, expense no consideration, electricity grid capacity ignored, the redistribution of wealth will end in a very poor world generally.
But the “world parliament” would probably allow bicycles, depending on the diet riders record for licensing purposes – sarc.
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Don’t forget that with every restriction on increasingly smaller engines they generate more heat resulting in shorter engine life or an increase in the frequency fluids need to be changed, for people so concerned about environmental footprints this doesn’t make sense we all probably know the old bloke that still has the old Ford or Holden he bought new still running around fine being serviced cheaply by the owner, that old 40+years jalopy has probably out lasted 10 high strung pre-stressed metal smart cars saving a huge energy footprint right there.
151
Yonnie I heard the other day that a 30 year old Datsun that’s still going has a smaller whole of life carbon footprint than a tesla.
61
Also consider the “social fun” that Datsun provided over those years, the only action a Tesla will see is the string of profanities when its stranded 100kms from anywhere.
80
Yes. Example, we have a Mitsubishi Triton 4WD ute that is used for business purposes and carries aluminium boxes full of builder’s tools (carpenter) and tows a large box trailer at times heavily loaded.
Still in warranty, this 2.5 litre Diesel engine has been losing coolant after 60,000 Kms. Mitsubishi changed the radiator cap to a higher pressure and increased the coolant to water ratio in the cooling system. We have advice that many engines have been replaced due to a block casting fault that is the cause of coolant leakage.
Thankfully the Triton is still under warranty.
The 4M40 engine was never considered to be a strong design, as I was informed some years ago when a vehicle I owned needed engine reconditioning.
It performs well, but is far from bullet proof, as they say.
So, we mere mortals will continue to suffer cost of living increases that should have been avoided.
UN IPCC cost of living impositions.
Sovereign Nation Government puppets imposed.
90
Low powered vaccuum cleaners?
50
There goes many a lonely warmists’ love life then……..
41
By the way, our politicians were until recently bragging about Australia being one of the very few countries that signed (Howard Coalition) the UN IPCC Kyoto Agreement (did not ratify it at the time, Labor did that years later) and has achieved every greenhouse gas emissions (remember them, they were before CO2 focus, “carbon pollution”) target to date.
Australia on track, most other countries way behind target, and we are being asked to do more???
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Breaking News: Electricity suppliers in the UK and Europe are questioning to move towards Electric Vehicles worrying about disruptions to electricity grids as the transport fleet is forced onto all electric.
They want government approval for them to monitor and regulate recharging points so that electricity can be cut off in areas when necessary to safeguard the grid integrity.
Surprise, surprise.
140
Dennis, on the subject of electric cars I see on the AGL website that they are offering ‘unlimited charging of your electric vehicle for $1.00 a day’ Thats a lot of cheap energy that someone else will have to pay for.
GelffW
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Watch AGL back peddle if Electric Vehicles ownership reaches even 10 per cent of fleet.
90
Qld is putting in charging station,from the Gold Coast to Cairns.It will take about 30 mins to recharge your cars battery to about 80%.That’s,provided there is nobody already there.So it will only take you about 8 or 10 Days to get to Cairns.And just how long will the battery last doing a fast charge every one of those days.At 7,500 dollars a pop,these things are going to get very expensive,in a very short time.And where are they going to get the”Electricity”from?Wind Mills,Solar Panels?Do they have a special school where these”Morons”get taught how to be stupid,or are they just born that way??
40
I once was a patriot…now an anarchist. The only way for Australia to get out of the rut is to destroy the place to commence the rebuild as apathy rules. When people can’t heat or cool they might just wake up.
Been involved with politicians for over ten years. My thoughts…the two major parties are in reality, a cartel. This animus that the public witness is a sham! I’ve seen the so called ‘political warriors’ drinking together and slapping each other on the back. Australians are being screwed.
The Greens and One Nation are the bit players and the cartel’s patsies. When they get a taste of power their convictions go out the window. It is all pantomime at the expense of Australia, now and into the foreseeable future.
I could go on but why bother? It is quite clear to a free thinking person that the future is bleak. Now…back under my rock where the view is better.
221
A couple of days ago Joel Fitzgibbons (Labor) and Josh Friedenberg (LNP Minister) had an “argument” in front of a television camera in a hallway in Parliament House, shown on TV News that evening.
Both were acting the fool, grinning, giggling and looked like B prize clowns.
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When the time comes I’ll be voting for Bernard.
Simple as that.
Still pissed off …GeoffW
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I see no need to promote Josh Friedenberg to Class B.
40
I would identify more as an Anarchist than a classic patriot now, people freak out until you explain it doesn’t mean no rules it means no rulers or a very open democracy, when was the last time you heard the average person agree with police having more powers over your personal space or movements, the old ‘if you haven’t done anything wrong you don’t have anything to worry about’ line is wearing thin as people wake up to the fact what you do wrong can be changed with the stroke of a pen to suit those that desire complete control.
90
Quick example of this is police conducting personal searches in public places, at all the patriot rallies we’ve been searched legally as the law states police can make any space a “designated area” which can mean anywhere anytime that they deem necessary, but as our persons were checked the government sanctioned protesters (read Antifa/socialist alliance) were free to run amok faces covered only confronted when they laid hands on police or an innocent bystander.
The modus operandi is clear to us now, contain the peaceful protesters (us) and use the organised agitators to create false confrontations for media reports aka propaganda to feed public perception, if anyone thinks I’m anything like the racist/fascist bogans media portrays to the public then I’ll concede defeat now.
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Yet in the early 1990s Labor State Governments, led by NSW Carr Labor, disbanded Police Special Branch, intelligence gathering.
Files on Student Union thugs destroyed, can’t have files on Union Labor MPs.
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‘…the two major parties are in reality, a cartel.’
More a pseudo Marxist consortium.
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Uniparty Oz Branch?
30
Wouldn’t it be accurate to say that Australia is a show pony for UN Paris Agreement purposes?
Our government signed and ratified the Agreement that most others only signed reluctantly, with China and India saying they would not cooperate much until, maybe, 2030/40 and when they have achieved industrial age wealth standards for which cheap electricity is essential.
So the self centred economic vandals here are the UN Puppets.
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I believe that Australia hasn’t actually handed over any money to the UN yet. Also it’s difficult to figure out where the money will go – so far I believe that it will only go to a large number of UN bureaucrats.
30
Oh yes we have.The”Stick Insect”has been throwing OUR BORROWED MONEY,with”Gay”abandon for some time.
20
No mention of private jets luxury yachts cars that only movie stars can afford?
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How about 2 stroke scooters, motorcycles, chainsaws etc?
80
At least there will be no noise pollution!!! Heaven, I’m in Heaven, when I don’t get woken up by motor bikes without mufflers in the middle of the night and I don’t have to listen to the chain saws every day close by (and in the distance) cutting down the gorgeous trees because they are not native or they are “making too much mess” or for some other lame reason…….ha ha ha, the greens are being useful for once…….
72
You need to move from living above a small engine repair workshop .
40
No, but I lived on the Gold Coast once, but had to move because of the leaf blowers. One operator would finish only when the next one would start up so that there was constantly noise from them right through every day including Sundays. They should rename the Gold Coast the “Leaf Blower Coast”. If a leaf or blade of grass gets out of place there, they call the police. Hey, they are obsessed….and the result is a very noisy place! Just a friendly warning if you are considering moving there and don’t like never ending noise from mowers and blowers.
91
Anyway, why not ask AL G about them.
He’s there to help. For example, I read in the Australian today that the American CEO of AGL went back to the States these past few days, to get instructions from AL about what to do about the Liddell power station…..
80
Do you also complain about the arborist’s chainsaws that keep trees clear from powerlines so they don’t cause fires and keep electricity running to to your property?
30
I wouldn’t live near power lines because of the EMF radiation, so I wouldn’t have to consider this.
Noise and ultra sound pollution is very real and I run my life to avoid it. For example noise from Wind Farms is deadly and much research should be done before one locates to an area that could end up with wind turbines nearby for example.
And we must stop wind farms in this country for this reason as well as the de-industrialisation that our move away from coal is causing.
90
ULF pulsing is hidden by the proponents of wind turbines.
It is damaging to humans.
KK
60
Cmon Robert – the E and M fields reduce their field strength by the cube of the distance (Area of a sphere.), so the 50 Hz field strength at any practical distance is zilch – far lower that the radiation from a mobile phone when you whack that against your head. Not something to worry about I believe.
40
Graham, strong, artificial EMFs that radiate from power lines can scramble and interfere with your body’s natural EMF, affecting everything from your sleep cycles and stress levels to your immune response and DNA!
Is There a Safe Living Distance from Power Lines? Hundreds of studies worldwide have shown that living next to high voltage power lines and other parts of the power transmission network increases your risk of cancer and other health problems. Attempts to downplay this have become part of the mantra of political correctness from time to time.
30
For sheer purposeless unproductive fatuous nonsensical inanity this legislation ranks up there with Turnbull’s light bulb ban.
Just more paper to add to this.
110
How much more of this can we endure? We need a law that says no new law can be introduced unless another is repealed at the same time.
80
Like Trump’s ‘Two-for-One’ Regulation Executive Order’ This latest order tackles yet another one of Trump’s campaign talking points and will require federal agencies to cut two existing regulations for every new regulation they implement.
20
With the accelerated rate of introduction of laws these days how about make that at least two to be removed until the pile is reduced to manageable size?
30
Fitzgibbons and Friedenberg think the voters are so dumb.But we worked out 50 yrs ago that world championship wrestling was fake.
120
I despair at the crass stupidity of those who govern us, and I despair even more as the crasser stupidity of those who seek to replace them.
The best we can hope for is at the next election to end up with a minority party coalition.
140
It’s at that point: Anybody but them or them.
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It’s worse Dennis , I thought we had one nation at least looking out for us and now I’m leaning towards Bernardi using the formula you have come up with .
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I have always viewed One Nation as well meaning lightweights Robert, and their leader is way out of her depth more often than not, but she too is well meaning I believe.
Cory Bernardi is far more professional and polished.
120
I agree Dennis, it’s the ability to articulate ones argument convincingly whilst maintaining a smile! It’s partly a gift and partly aquired. Not too many have the skills.
GeoffW
50
Charisma! Oh how I hate that word
30
Donald is charismatic, totally outside the political establishment and capable of turning the world upside down, but Cory is only a traditional politician starting from scratch. He’s not in the same league.
30
el gordo:
He’s handicapped by common sense.
30
Robert, Same here.
I had a go at Bernadi the other day about the Renewable Energy Target. He came back and pointed me to the Australian Conservatives policies, which is clearly against the RET.
I said that Malcolm Roberts would keep the One Nation Party on the right track, but now I am not so sure. What were they thinking? One Nation has some explaining to do.
61
Yes I’m with Bernardi. We just need some of the minor parties to stand in lower house seats.
However I’m sure there are quite a few in the LNP that are simply toeing the Turnbull party line, and just bursting to break free. If we don’t see a leadership change I wouldn’t be surprised to see some defections.
100
True Menzies tradition Australian Liberals must break away from the now infiltrated and controlled Liberal Party of Australia.
We desperately need patriots to overturn the disturbingly increasing imposed controls and vandalism.
90
Dastardly plan to take us back to the Dark Ages
of wind and water-wheels technology and serfdom,(
and all based on cloud-tower modelling of our complex, inter-active
climate system and some temperature data-tampering to make observation
correlate with prediction.
Energy from wind and water-wheels but prob’ly no animal power allowed,
horses and oxen emit CO2 too like evil humanity, don’t yer know.
It’ll be dark alright, no fires or candle-light, they’re inter-dit too,
more cee-oh-too, it’s everywhere!
Plane travel? Well, good news fer a change,, not all flights will be
cancelled, there’ll be some to climate conferences and to supra-national
assemblies at the UN in New York and Geneva and The Hague, and of course,
quite a few to the EU. You might manage a 3rd class seat to one of these
places if you have the right* connections.
* ‘Right’ in this case paradoxically meaning ‘leftist’ and definitely
‘green.’
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Sorry red button error by me. . . moderator can u fix.
Regards GeoffW
40
Phew! 🙂
60
What if an entire state runs on diesel (while promising to transition to fairy dust)? Do we ban South Australia? Sell it off at a discount to the Kiwis with a cash-for-clunkers rebate from Canberra? No more writers’ festivals? Boycott Quelltaler Riesling ? (Wait, I already did that.)
At least make ’em put this on their licence plates: “South Australia. The Fully-Imported Diesel State”.
110
It’s oil right, were ok, we are escaping from our RET ways.
20
From what I can see this has came from the industry itself mainly the marine sector .
20
I thought battery operated mowers, which are better and better were becoming more popular. Better than having to refill a petrol can every so often, which can be inconvenient, dirty and smelly.
21
OK Peter, but at least let the free ‘market’ decide . .
GeoffW
90
Peter, I use battery power for my lawn mower and radio controlled glider. Very happy to no longer have to muck around with fueling with petrol.
There’s no way, however, that I would contemplate owning a battery powered car.
That would be stupid.
70
Consider the time out to enjoy a “power nap” as your EV is recharged. How long distance travel could be a compromise between fossil fuel horsepower and Cobb & Co Horse power. Electricity grid willing to recharge your EV.
Your doctor could prescribe anti-anxiety pills to help you overcome electricity depravation syndrome as the EV meter indicated LOW.
And then, assuming that you made a recharge station, you could relax for a few hours, or more few hours if there are others already connected.
As a clever person commented here months ago, 95% of Ev’s are still on the road, the other 5% made it home.
50
I once purchased an electric hover mower with cord.
Long grass, no go.
Cord, a bloody nuisance.
50
Battery operated mowers are still crap , have electric snipper and blower only because we poison a 300 mm wide strip around everything but the poolyard .
My back won’t allow me to use the motorised whipper snippers or blowers and we now only have a small patch of grass near the pool that gets attention the rest can be done with rideon and push mower four stroke .
20
The good power to weight ratio of 2-stoke chain-saws means I can actually carry and use a 30cc saw up a tree.
The new lithium battery arbourist saws have poor run-times so need 3 batteries to regularly swap over and then you need constant access to electricity or a generator.
My big “ground” saws might burn 4 litres of petrol during a full day of tree work. I run 2.5% 2-stoke oil or 100ml/day.
Poor old Norm, shoving his little little lawn-mower around the back yard for an hour on Saturday morning. Think of all that pollution ! How many ships’ diesel engines exist ? How many aircraft have 4 Trent jets each and fly almost 24/7 ? How much pollution is happening right now from bush-fires in Au ?
I find it hard to accept that the fools on the hill in Canberra are really this Monty Python Stoopid. Is it all part of the top-down syndrome of control ?
130
Good comment
50
I always understood that the ban on two-strokes had little to do with CO2 but was more to do with the unburnt hydrocarbons in the two stroke exhaust because of the oil mixed with the fuel to keep the bearings and bores lubricated.
I do know that if you use a castor based oil mixed with alcohol fuel it has a very sweet smelling exhaust!
Many, many years ago we used to mix a little castor based oil and a bit of methanol in the car fuel tank to give the exhaust that speedway exhaust smell (and hope that it would impress those that it was intended to impress).
60
The trouble with methanol in modern engines is that it corrodes aluminium alloys and perishes rubber seals.
Hydro-carbon particulates can be reduced by adding tin catalysts to the fuel. My big saws and back-packer brush cutter have small stainless baskets containing loose tin ingots. These vibrate about in the fuel tank and give greater power/fuel economy and keep the cylinder head clean.
For me, Government is over-stepping it’s mandate when it starts making laws about minutia. Au has some serious problems coming up and 2-stroke pollution is definitely not on the list.
80
People can’t believe I use TCW-3 marine engine oil in all my four stroke engines fuel at a 500:1 ratio and have done for 5+ years with measured increased efficiency, zero carbon piston/head buildup and performance, there’s an epic thread that started 2008 on LS1.com ‘been testing oils’ that got me onto it.
30
Au diesel has been “cleaned up” in recent years so we need to add 1:1000 of 2-stroke oil to compensate or the motor will wear out prematurely. I also add 1:1000 of a napthalene based additive which dissolves water, improves combustion and keeps carbon accumulation down.
Looks like I might have to purchase a 44 of 2-stroke before the idiots ban the stuff.
10
I remember looking at a pair of SU carbies that had been used some years earlier with Methanol fuel and found them covered in white furry stuff!!
30
Yep, -Blue Mtns Petrol Injection told me never to run E10 (10% ethanol) in my cars as they’ve seen many damaged injection systems.
10
They are picking a fight they cant win….I am almost lost for words…..
Manuel!!
Doonk!
50
Sorry Steve but they have won , just behind your back .
20
Its not going to work.
A large tree falls over on a funny angle… How are you going to cut it? Fairy floss? Unicorn hair? Or a 2 stroke chainsaw?
Hmmmm…..
I predict we will have riots in this country…goid thing the powes that be have passed many Enabling Laws to crack down on anyone anywhete any time and hold them indefinitely.
If dopey australuans dont wake up, this country will be one big gulag.
50
Just as I thought we were making some progress on pushing back the CO2 is evil agenda, this crazy legislation gets passed by our parliament. Who knew? Who opposed it? I hope that I can find out. All the rest are toast for my next vote!
The true value of a 2 stroke motor is the power to weight ratio. 2 stroke motors weigh less than 4 stroke motors of the same power. That makes them valuable for hand held devices, aircraft and other applications where weight really matters.
There are some disadvantages to 2 stroke motors, including ; hard to start , smelly exhaust and poor fuel consumption. Those reasons alone ensure that the 2 stroke market is restricted to applications where it’s advantages really matter. Hence this legislation is just virtue signalling which really hurts in some applications but does nothing for emissions in the large scheme of things.
Why do our politicians not understand these things?
90
All they understand is that voters are dumb and after a few years there is a pension.
40
The unburnt fuel loss was always an issue at lower revs as with the rotary engine too, a quick search will find many proven new fuel delivery inventions that actually work being tried globally including this Aussie two stroke engine, I always thought the push for four strokes was purely for vested interests as the manufacturers always did well from both, the EU enviro virtue signalling was just a ruse to convince the public it was a righteous decision it was so good in fact that diesel motors became more planet friendly under dubious EU testing guidelines.
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Peter C
Re political understanding. Get yourself a copy of Eric Rolls’s book “And they all ran wild”.
Get to his summation at the end of the section on rabbits and note the conclusions.
Seems our current politicians aren’t making contributions that are any more useful. Add the section on “The Enthusiasts” and you’ve got a fair description of cagw imo.
As a post-graduate student working on a computer simulation project was heard to observe
“Real knowledge is accumulated much slower than computer output”
20
Last weekend I attended the 20th anniversary of the local Go-Kart Club.
These go-karts all seem to have the two stroke motors. Very fast. How many of the members know about the dictate on banning their motors?
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The Bottom Line
Natural Earth Cycles.
Warming and Cooling periods that span back to the creation.
It frustrates me that we, to quote Tony Abbott 2015, react to: “socialism masquerading as environmentalism”.
40
Len would it be possible to drive karts on batteries?
Might be speed loss.
20
There is a fair bit of dust involved plus tracks being watered so there is a moisture issue as well. Don’t think batteries would operate well under these differing conditions.
10
It also frustrates me that self centred people are elected to represent electorates, and most ignore the best interests of their constituents.
Is there a law that applies to MPs who ignore their service obligations?
40
I believe it was called lynching, but it was considered far too effective in culling the beta humans from any meaningful position in society by you guessed it…other beta humans that slipped under the radar.
20
First major stumble for One Nation. Had their eye off the ball? Does PH know what she has done – falling for the new world socialists in Liberal and Labor?
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Please Explain?
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She has recently shown that she is a very modest person and I appreciate that quality in a parliamentarian.
10
Churchill on Atlee
“He is a very modest person with plenty to be modest about”
10
Did he wear a burqua?
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All indications Churchill didn’t. There are mentions of his boiler suit and dressing gown though.
No idea on Attlee. There is that joke about nationalising the British steel industry.
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This legislation will be a disaster for all Australians, and especially those in the bush. The beginning of the end of Turnbull and Frydenburg?
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“The Bush”? Where is that? No voters in numbers there. Anyway, the Green Councillors have them in hand.
20
Did I hear that? Malcolm Turnbull and Bill Shorten said: “Let Them Eat Cake”
30
What a bunch of whinging old farts.
Wake up folx. Four strokes are the way of small engines now. They’re easy to start and reliable and they weigh less than the old two strokes used to. In outboard motors, updated two strokes didn’t sell because four strokes are simply better.
This is the twentyfirst century and if it takes banning two stroke motors to drag some of you into it that seems like a good thing. If I never have to struggle with a recalcitrant two stroke engine ever again I’ll be well pleased.
25
You have not experienced injected petrol/oil 2-stroke technology?
40
Not in a chainsaw. Where can I get one?
How many of those complaining here do you think use a two stroke lawnmower any more? Was it ever possible to buy a two stroke ride on mower? What about generators over .8kW?
Two stroke technology advanced but four stroke technology has left it for dead. I still have a two stroke chainsaw just in case but I much prefer to use a rechargeable one for pruning and a plug-in electric with a generator for heavier stuff.
00
Does a 4 stroke chainsaw exist? I suspect not. A 4 stroke engine would not be able to achieve the rpm necessary to cut.
30
4 strokes dont achieve rpm !? not a motogp fan then I guess
probably more about form factor and weight I think.
They will probably end up licencing chainsaws like semi auto firearms, based on need for those nasty nasty devices.
wouldnt shed too many pears over two stroke bikes being banned , they are a pain in out area.
for most consumer grade people 4 stroke and electric options abound, if you are burning fossil puels just for fun then tough get a 4 stroke, they just need to ensure they cater for regional people who need to get real work done
01
I just had a set too with Malcolm Roberts over on his Face Book Page.
I do wish toy could paste pictures here on Jo’s site. Anyway,, here is the text. Again, like all politicians, they will say just about anything to get out of trouble when caught.
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I don’t think it bans 2 strokes, they just have to comply with some emission standards. Many of the brands that we sell already do so, with no power loss. But 2 stroke mowers are becoming a thing of the past, thank goodness. Unlike the chainsaws, etc. their engines were pretty awful. Victa did their last production run of 2 stroke motors last year. There are some 4 stroke brushcutters about, some of which ironically still use a 2 stroke fuel mix! They are weird to use after a lifetime of 2 stroke machines, and not really as good. Not seen a chainsaw with a 4 stroke yet.
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All internal combustion engines must conform to low decibel/ emission output. 4 stroke and 2 stroke have attained maximum efficiencies over the last 25 years. There is no issue here except a political one. There is no such thing as better fuel.
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Omg how funny. It took 100+ posts until someone sceptical checked the actual legislation. And an obsequious follow up post is required to correct this faux rage
23
No.
The issue was about linking this legislation to CO2, which did happen, but mainly that it’s not necessary.
Most of the equipment under the legislation is or will be on the way out, replaced by something better.
But the big issue is that politicians would waste energy on this when there are much bigger problems to solve.
e.g. The imminent closure of an aluminum smelter that directly employs a thousand people.
But those are dirty jobs, aren’t they.
KK
10
You’re a hypocrite, how about you check some facts yourself about Co2 and ocean acidity and the rest of your CAGW religion that’s false and without proof .
01
Sorry replying to the troll not you Keith.
00
I wonder what this person really thinks!
”
Martin B. | September 14, 2017 11:29 PM | Reply
AGW Science has always been a mile wide and an inch deep where the tools of the trade are hyperbole, subterfuge, scare mongering, cherry picking, data washing, skeptic character assassination, media shaming, legal brass knuckling, enviro-bully group coordinating, peer review rubber stamping, fact avoidance, immoral religious shamanism and global economic policy collusion. Such are the tools of a fierce driven propaganda arm. There no hypothesis that can be tested false. There’s nobody on the AGW side even attempting to disprove anything. It’s all been settled apparently so the only thing left is to continue feeding off grants to distill more snake oil supporting their massive illusion.”
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/09/if-you-dont-nee.html#comment-1124587
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Say, Ian, I’d go along with that. Sounds reasonable to me.
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Ah, dear me, it is just another example of government governing.
It must do so until 100% of GDP is chewed up by taxes for virtuous projects, and not a single act may be taken without permission in triplicate.
That’s just what government is.
20
Just talking to a friend who repairs outboard motors , he told me they have been trying to ban outboard two strokes for years because of the oil contamination of the water , which is why the advances in four stroke and two stroke technology of most new motors .
I can’t find anything concrete apart from Bernardi and the boatsales blurb is it possible that Malcolm Roberts is telling the truth and Cory is gilding the Lily .
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Technological improvements have negated 2 stroke pollution.They are arguably as “clean” as 4 strokes. More nonsense from the controllers.
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This might be as popular as banning dog racing. Secret laws. Secret business of the swamp, like the RET. Utter rubbish.
All because someone like science illiterate Al Gore says CO2 is a dangerous pollutant? Seriously? Humans consume O2 and output CO2. Plants consume CO2 and output O2. What exactly is the problem with CO2? It is the carbon cycle? As important to life on earth as water.
As for man increasing CO2 with two stroke engines, prove it. As for heating the planet, prove it. Can’t? Then stop crippling our country!
It is getting to the point where we do not need parliament. Votes will be taken nationally by computer. Everyone has one. Throw our misrepresenatives out the nearest window. They represent some overseas political masters, not the people who elected them. The main culprit is Malcolm Turnbull. At least we know Labor. They do what they say. Turnbull said he would fix the country. He has. He is wrecking it. Words fail with the level of deceit. Drain the swamp.
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Turnbull.
The epitome of self interest; want to become president?, organise a referendum to turn us into a republic.
Golden Sacks: understand that and you understand modern politics.
KK
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The good Senator from one nation is telling porkies , this legislation was in the works back in 2015 by the previous no hoper Hunt , the new no hoper is pleased to announce after much consultation the new legislation .
If it’s a two stroke after 1st July 2019 it must comply to new emission standards to be sold here it covers all two stroke motored equipment, anything here and sold before that date is ok .
Most motors currently sold probably meet the new spec , it is possible to get an exemption after that date but I imagine it would be difficult.
http://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/fc00689c-1215-4724-8b25-8dbbad737df8/files/working-towards-australian-emission-standards-nrsiee.pdf
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You’ll all be moving to four-stroke engines and will need larger cubic inch motors since the four stroke engines don’t deliver the power the two stroke does. Plus they’re more expensive and heavier.
Oh, and you voted for the geniuses that imposed this upon you.
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No, we voted for people who did what was best for us. Once in the job, they do what’s best for themselves. On both sides. If you want to get rid of overpaid, deceitful politicians, pay them less. The idea that fabulous salaries and superannuation would bring the best people has backfired. There is no other explanation for most of the Senate.
51
15 Sept: Reuters: Tom Miles: U.N. calls for global economic makeover to replace neo-liberalism
GENEVA – The world must ditch austerity and economic neo-liberalism and undertake a global “New Deal” to rebalance the global economy and achieve prosperity for all, the U.N. trade and development agency UNCTAD said in a report on Thursday…
Much of the blame was aimed at “neo-liberalism”, a term used to refer to governments cutting back on their own role and leaving the private sector to lead economic and social development within a free-market capitalist system.
After decades of such policies, the system was perceived to be unduly biased in favor of a handful of large corporations, financial institutions and wealthy individuals, the report said…
The world now needed a “21st century makeover”, it said.
“The whole neo-liberal mantra that ‘there is no alternative’ has begun to fall apart,” Richard Kozul-Wright, UNCTAD’s globalization director, told a news conference. ..
”There are plenty of alternatives out there and they are urgently needed given the kind of economic and social imbalances that we are currently facing.”
He said central bank chiefs such as Mark Carney in Britain and Janet Yelland(sic) in the United States seemed to think they had solved the crisis and blamed any continuing risks on China.
”It needs a serious regulation of corporate abuse in both the financial and the corporate sector and it requires serious redistributionary measures – both fiscal and more innovative measures,” he said…
Kozul-Wright said there were signs of a backlash against austerity in the Anglo-Saxon world, in countries such as New Zealand and Britain, and the United States could also potentially follow suit.
But mainland Europe seemed to be extremely resistant to such a change of direction, he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-un-economy/u-n-calls-for-global-economic-makeover-to-replace-neo-liberalism-idUSKCN1BP2IR?il=0
10
the CAGW “useful idiots” clearly know nothing about Wall Street’s financial interests in the manmade global warming scam.
so ironic coming in the same week it was announced Donald Trump’s top economic advisor, Gary “Carbon Tax” Cohn, ex-Goldman Sachs honcho, had invited world leaders to a “climate” talk in NYC next week!
14 Sept: CNBC: Fred Imbert: Iconic Wall Street bull statue vandalized by Trump protesters
The NYPD told CNBC they found blue paint poured over the bull’s head and a sash stating “Draw The Blue Line” around the “Fearless Girl” statue across the bull. “Draw the Blue Line” is the name of the group protesting Trump’s decision.
The protestor responsible, named Courtney Frances Fallon, told CNBC in an email she was “trying to cover New York City (and the world) with horizontal blue lines to represent rising sea levels for the UN General Assembly.”
“My hope is that the blue will become so ubiquitous that UN members and delegates will see it and reply by publicly reaffirming their commitment to the Paris Agreement,” Fallon said…
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/14/iconic-wall-street-bull-statue-vandalized-by-trump-protesters.html
not only will no-one be arrested – after all, it was CAGW advocacy vandalism – but even pro-Trump NY Post manages to find a security guard who, while not condoning the vandalism, tears into Trump with mindless CAGW climate propaganda he’s no doubt learned from the FakeNewsMSM:
14 Sept: NY Post: Vandal targets ‘Charging Bull’ and ‘Fearless Girl’
By Tina Moore, Daniel Prendergast and Jennifer Bain
The vandalism was quickly cleaned up before the morning rush, witnesses said.
“Around 6:30 they were hosing it down. It was an officer. The street was closed off,” said Davon Titus, 27, who works at Planet Fitness across the street.
Supporters of the Paris Agreement are being encouraged to draw blue lines in public during this week’s meetings at the UN General assembly, according to a Facebook campaign.
A Facebook post of the vandalized bull indicates it was doused in corn oil and industrial chalk. It also titled the act “Bulls–t” (2017) – Performance vandalism by Courtney Frances Fallon.”
Another post of the decorated Fearless Girl statue referred to it as “Suffragette Sash,” also by Courtney Frances Fallon.
“I would say it’s brave. It’s a bold statement to get the message out because it’s a very known landmark,” said Titus of the vandalism. “It makes it urgent to wash it down which makes the message get out. It’s necessary to create regulations for safety for the climate.”
But security guard Farhad Barekzei disagreed.
“If you want to protest come protest, don’t destroy the thing,” he said.
Still, Barekzei, 53, said the defacement should serve as a message to President Trump, who announced in June that the US would pull out of what he called a “draconian” Paris climate accord.
“Donald Trump — you think we should listen to him? Look at the climate, what’s going on around the world. Look at Florida, look at Texas,” he said. “It’s all over the world. He needs to pay attention to this and not just to me me me.”
No arrests have been made and the investigation is ongoing.
http://nypost.com/2017/09/14/vandal-targets-charging-bull-and-fearless-girl/
20
found on NYT CAGW writer, Lisa Friedman’s Twitter page:
watch the video for “smart” Tapper:
Twitter: Lisa Friedman NYT: Kudos to @jaketapper who has been consistently raising #climatechange in smart ways…
TWEET: The Lead CNN: Budget director Mulvaney: Climate change is clearly a big topic for the media
@jaketapper: It’s a big topic for the world
VIDEO: 53secs (IRMA/HARVEY)
https://twitter.com/lffriedman?lang=en
REPLY TO ONE OF MANY TWEETS BY FRIEDMAN ON HER GARY COHN/UN CLIMATE TALKS PIECE:
Bernadette Hyland (PhD candidate researching #OpenAccess publicly-funded science data. Serial entrepreneur in Australia & U.S. Delivered EPA’s pioneering https://opendata.epa.gov ):
TWEET: In the new world of inverses, how ironic that former Goldman Sachs partner Gary Cohn may be champion for #climatechange at US exec level?!
—
can’t imagine Bernadette wouldn’t know how interested/invested Wall St Execs are in CAGW!
LinkedIn: Bernadette Hyland
Current: The University of Queensland, 3 Round Stones, Inc.
Twitter: …PhD Candidate at the University of Queensland School of Political Science and International Studies. My research focuses on open access, policy and influence of publicly funded science data.
Winner of the 2017 Women in IT (WIT Australia) “ICT Outstanding Achievement Award” and “Sue Wickenden Entrepreneurial Established Award”.
Co-founder and CEO of 3 Round Stones, Inc., a firm specializing in data modeling and visualization of publicly-funded science data. 3 Round Stones has served U.S. Government organizations including the Environmental Protection Agency, Commerce and NOAA, NASA, Health & Human Services and the Library of Congress, to ensure that publicly funded environmental and health data remains findable, accessible, interoperable and re-usable on the Web…
Bernadette Hyland is a trusted adviser to senior executives, journalists and researchers, and speaks at national and international fora on the topics of entrepreneurship and innovation.
Experience
PhD Candidate The University of Queensland
June 2017 – Present
https://au.linkedin.com/in/bhyland
Bernadette has a video on the Australian March for Science “Media Updates” page, and mentions “Environmental Justice”.
00
No, we voted for people who did what was best for us. Once in the job, they do what’s best for themselves. On both sides. If you want to get rid of overpaid, deceitful politicians, pay them less. The idea that fabulous salaries and superannuation would bring the best people has backfired. There is no other explanation for most of the Senate. Then there’s Jacqui. Unbelievable.
21
Malcolm Roberts emailed me tonight, so I’ve just posted a new discussion with the One Nation response.
UPDATE: Malcolm Roberts, One Nation replies the two-stroke mower ban is about real pollution, not CO2
I don’t know the balance and toss about pollution levels, two strokes versus four. What I can see though is that this is obviously an issue dear to men’s hearts and it should have been discussed before it went through parliament. Where was our ABC?
51
Hmm, I am actually a bit puzzled as to where the carbon tax comes into this. The basic (cheap) two strokes have been under pressure for many years to clean up their emissions. I have never heard of them being a CO2 problem – they burn the same fuel as most cars. The gripe has always been the volatile organic compounds (VOCs),carbon monoxide and small particulate pollution. While we don’t have the two stroke transport population of some Asian countries where these emissions are serious health concerns, their handheld use in garden power tools exposes the operator to the exhaust fumes for prolonged periods. The marine use relates to putting those un-burnt hydrocarbons into waterways. I am a little surprised too that Jo is defending their use, suggesting it is not really a health issue, jeez we gotta have some sort of pollution we can all hate.
00
Joe, see the update. Cory Bernardi is talking about the carbon tax. I understand his point is that they will cost more and the concern is carbon emissions as well as other pollution. He can see these changes making a whole lot of things — including farm tractors more expensive, hence the carbon tax.
I object to a ban outright, and to any cost forcibly imposed to reduce CO2 emissions. But in this case, the ban is only on “old tech” two strokes. Roberts argues that it is for health reasons, and Cory argues that they’re using that as an excuse. The devil in the details.
I’ve been in touch with Tim Blair and he’ll add an update.
51
Thanks Jo, this is a ‘nutty’ one which will have to be sorted.
Regards GeoffW
20
Joe , Fraudenberg wants to save 1.9 million tons of Co2 over 20 years how can this not be construed as a carbon tax by default .
00
Aussie politicians, share the Southern Hemisphere with but 1/9 of humanity (and attendant ghastly pollution of civilization). Still it behooves them to look backward at the votes cast voluntarily in the 2016 elections in the USA. Stripped of personalities and cancelling out the nonsense, the two parties with platforms advocating uncoerced access to energy beat the assortment of Altrurian Cassandra parties by three percent in the much-ballyhooed popular vote.
Libertarian and Republican presidential candidates: 52.4%
Green, Socialist, communist and Democrat candidates: 49.4%
The 3% difference is more than covered by the 3.28% won by the Libertarian party candidates, whose platform called for no carbon tax or suicidal treaties with foreign interests. Our stock is up over 300% , and our spoiler votes decided the election as it reached the electoral college.
20
Correction… I had the Dems and GOP mixed up and reversed the popular vote counts. Once untangled and graphed at libertariantranslator.com, the two pro-energy parties (Libertarian and Republican) came out dead even down to the hundredths place with the four anti-energy parties. If the Republicans continue to push [snip] reproductive laws, Methodist drug laws, Military Junta asset-forfeiture laws and National Socialist migration policies, the next election could turn America into another Vichy France, albeit freezing in the dark.
[18C] ED
20
I’m not certain, but if this is the AMEC release that Boatsales.com site referred too it will help clarify a lot of things. But it is dated 2016, so details may have changed.
Do I read this correctly — it’s “Carby” two strokes that will be banned?
– April 2016
http://www.marinecouncil.org.au/media-releases/emission-standards-for-non-road-spark-ignition-engines-and-equipment/
Gary Fooks was keen to point out that there is one final surprise for both him and industry. “I had been saying that existing importer and dealer stock, imported before “D” day would be exempted, just like existing boats on the water, and that was the plan. However, dealers and importers talk of stockpiling carby two strokes has government concerned enough to announce that there would be both a phase in and a final day where sales of non-compliant engines will be illegal.”
http://www.marinecouncil.org.au/media-releases/government-fact-sheet-hints-at-the-future-of-outboard-emissions-standards/
For those who have been following the work closely the fact sheet contains few surprises:
• The Australian regulations will mirror the USA EPA standards. After all, so has the rest of the world, now that the EU started the changeover in January. That means the end of carby and EFI two strokes, except in some handheld categories like chainsaws.
• Standards will cover both engine exhaust emissions and evaporative emissions from fuel systems, which will call for low permeation hoses, tank expansion capacity and a carbon filter on the vent line.
• Engines on the water now won’t be changed.
31
From the legislation (see the update post)
http://www.environment.gov.au/protection/air-quality/publications/working-towards-australian-emission-standards-nrsiee-update-paper
this is ALSO about CO2.
41
I agree with the [snip] Radicals. The west has become decadent and deserves to be overrun. The west is self destructing anyway.
[18c] ED
02