“Air-conditioning” of The Great Barrier Reef begins soon
To calm a few panicking people, the Australian Government will pay for large fans to circulate water on a minuscule portion of the 2,300 kilometer long Great Barrier Reef. The reef creatures, which have been coping with higher temperatures and bleaching for two hundred million years, will hopefully avoid the moving parts. Marine life adapts to heatwaves by chucking out the symbionts that don’t thrive in higher temperatures and replacing them up new inhabitants that do. If the fans achieve anything, it may stop this natural process (called Symbiont Shuffling) thus possibly making small sections of the reef more vulnerable to future heatwaves and El Ninos. Who knows?
Fans like this are used in the United States to circulate water.
Mark this one up as a pagan symbolic idol that symbolizes our grandiose delusions of weather-control.
Federal Government spending $2.2m on giant ocean fans in bid to protect Great Barrier Reef
Eight huge reef mixer fans are planned for the Great Barrier Reef in far north Queensland, in a trial project that hopes to reduce the damage caused by coral bleaching events.
The Federal Government has announced it will contribute $2.2 million to the three-year pilot project, which will result in solar-powered rotators being placed at Moore Reef off the coast of Cairns.
Floating water fans:
The slow-moving ReefMix fans mounted on floating pontoons create water currents by gradually drawing cooler water from up to 30 metres below to the surface.
Comfortable corals
Anthropologists of the future can study this as a primitive turn of the century fantasy. Some old folks are missing out on air conditioning and heating because they can’t afford it, but a few lucky zooxantheallae will be spared from their natural fate.
The field trial is designed to protect a 1 square kilometre patch of reef from the worst effects of bleaching.
“This intervention will never save the whole of the Great Barrier Reef, but it will be important for some of our particularly valuable tourist sites, which of course are 64,000 jobs,” Ms Morris said.
The Great Barrier Reef covers 344,400 km2. Thie $2.2m cost may protect 0.0003% of the reef. The cost to “protect” the whole reef would be $757 billion dollars.
The turbines are planned to be constructed in Cairns and installed in February, and are being jointly funded by the Federal Government and the tourism industry.
Hands up any business in tourism that would have spent the money differently?
At least this isn’t as stupid as the plan to protect the reef with giant shade cloths. h/t Martin Clarke
PS: Can any readers find links to the US versions?
h/t Robert, Pat, David
Past stories of corals surviving, recovering and generally coping with extremes:
- *Surprise* Great Barrier Reef has 112 tough spots that survive and replenish the rest
- Scientists surprised that reef that survived the hotter holocene is already recovering from 2016 bleaching
- Corals survive 542m years of supervolcano, asteroids, 125m sea level change only to go extinct any year now
- Great Barrier Reef: 5% bleached, not 93% says new report “discrepancy phenomenal”
- Researchers astonished: Coral reefs thriving in a more “acidic” ocean
- Hottest reefs on Earth make a nice home for corals?
- One vulnerable coral type adapts to ocean acidification in just 6 months
Future anthropologists and others will be trying to analyse the collective madness that overtook the world in this era.
440
I don’t think we will need to wait that long. If global cooling sets in soon we can expect a lot of red faces everywhere. I also look forward to seeing [snip “justice”]
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Did my post go into moderation or just get lost?
00
Just in case it was finger trouble on my side, I’ll re-post and see if that works.
While this isn’t about the reef, it’s related in so many ways: https://newatlas.com/chargery-bicycle-trailer-electric-vehicle-charging/52519/.
This particular part really caught my attention:
40
You’re assuming the future humanity will be smarter than it is today?
I sware, humans as a race are getting dumber by the year.
My prediction is thus: The best minds of the future will all be like Lewandowsky.
20
C’mon. This has to be a joke. On the other hand, there was the proposal a few years ago to stick shade cloth all over the GBR …
Tourism industry contributing? If so, presumably virtue signalling, but it won’t work. Feeding one lot of possums just attracts all the others.
Thanks Martin. Link and h/t added. — Jo
310
Perhaps this really is just a tourism advertising plan — look at it that way — spend $2.2m, get free news headlines and coverage, pretend that the reef is “protected” so it’s safe to visit.
It undoes some of the bad bleaching publicity (nobody add up the numbers).
311
Jo,
The pedant in me says this is more like water conditioning rather than air conditioning, but I get your drift and the entire thing is unbelievably crazy.
150
My gut feeling is the reef will cope but the 2.2 mill is smoked.
250
That’s priceless!
81
It would be a tourism promotion if it were funded by the Australian Tourist Commission (Tourism Australia) and/or Tourism Queensland.
Bur remember, the current Treasurer “Scomo” Morrison was the head ad-man at Tourism Australia before he went into spending tax-payers money big-time as the Treasurer in the most useless Liberal government the country has ever experienced.
You’ll notice that under Scomo’s watch the Commonwealth debt has increased about 20% to well over $600 Billion (and growing) and the Budget is still in a massive $37 Billion annual deficit.
What’s a couple of extra Million in that little hole when it gives the Warren Entsches (North Queensland MP, on a thin margin) of this world something to feed to the local swingers?
140
Oh, and I should add.
Once an ad-man always an ad-man.
There’s no problem that can’t be fixed with more advertising.
In other systems it’s called propaganda.
140
I’ve read this several times and I still can’t believe it.
It will be interesting, very interesting, to see what “unexpected” damage/change is caused.
I can’t think of anything where man’s intrusion as “the Cavalry to the Rescue”
hasn’t been even more harmful.
Quite unbelievable.
70
Thing which struck me was that doing this might be part of government action to try and convince a gullible public that its (disastrous) renewable policies are necessary.
Window dressing can be very important ………
30
I’m not laughing at the thought of over $2 MILLION DOLLARS of taxpayer funds being basically flused down the toilet !
NOT HAPPY !
250
Agree, Angry. This is like lowering the sea level with a bucket brigade of 3 three 6 year old kids.
Utter nonsense, waste of time and money, and keeps those in need from getting help.
150
Going down the plug hole one might say
Claim: Peeing in the Shower will Help Save the Climate”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/12/07/claim-peeing-in-the-shower-will-help-save-the-climate/
50
A petition has been running since March to get the Queensland Environment Minister to pour cold water on this experiment on our reef. Presently it has 508 signatures. Please share widely.
https://www.change.org/p/steven-miles-save-the-great-barrier-reef-from-industrial-scale-experiments
50
What a weird dream – huge batteries, giant fans, windmills. I wonder when I’ll wake up?
Actually it’s beginning to feel a bit like a crazy nightmare – I really want to wake up…
391
Does OZ have a Sancho Panza of the Reef?
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No, we have about 500 under various aliases. And speaking of asses…(No, I would be moderated).
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No. But we have Scomo Ponzi pretending to be a Treasurer.
However, like Don Quixote he also tilts. In his case to the left.
100
With a wave of my mighty hand I direct the circumpolar current Northwards. Problem solved?
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No No don’t solve it. My life would not be the same. The one constant thing that has never changed as long as i can remember is that the reef has mostly died or is dying and will not recover etc. It is one of those constant norms, a stable state that has been going on that way as long as I can remember. Please don’t cure anything.
220
1983 “For months researchers from Central
America to Australia have been seeking
reasons for the extermination of the top,
living layer of thousands of square kilo-
metres of coral reefs.”
“The only other major coral-reef loss
in recent times occurred more than a
decade ago when a plague of the Crown
of Thorns starfish demolished hundreds
of square kilometres of Australia’s
Great Barrier Reef and other reefs off
guam, Saipan, Fiji and the western
Solomon Islands. The invading starfish
lave since retreated, for unknown rea-
sons.” https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/116422644
190
Pre me in 1952 “Recent alarming reports
that coral had died on the
Low Isles Reef had prompted
the Great Barrier Reef Com-
mittee, Brisbane, to organise
the expedition. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50536251
Then the same places that had died in 1952 were dying in 1954
“Coral Decay At
Low Island
CAIRNS, August 29.— The
coral on Low and Woody
Island, 10 miles off the coast
at Port Douglas, Is In a
dying condition. Professor F.
W. Whitehouie said In
Cairns.” https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65191607
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Sliggy the1954 report also mentions an earlier expedition but the ink is so badly smudged I can’t make out the name or date but looks like Tonga expedition of 1926 .
Could be a reference to the earliest natural state of the Reef .
60
You may find this interesting Robert. “Twenty scientists are living on that island
for a year.” https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16512881
30
Temps seem to be the same as today , you have found some interesting articles here that’s for sure .
30
A bit OT but this is better. 1837 “The following interesting account of
the Maldive Islands is copied from a
publication which has recently emanated
from the Bombay Geographical Society,
(a branch of the Parent Society, in Lon-
don) ;” “The natives observe the atolls to be wasting
away , in some the cocoanut trees are standing in the
water, in another the black soil of the island is dis
cernible at low water thirty feet from the beach ; the
south east side of an island in Phaidee Pholo Atoll
is entirely gone but is marked by a banyan tree in the
water. They say that some islands have disappeared
entirely, and instance near the island Wardoo a
rocky shoal, which (they say) was once an island in
Fix this textAtoll-Milla-Dou. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2209875
60
Surely this is worthy of a story in itself Jo ?
30
1991 “BRISBANE: The Great Barrier
Reef Marine Park Authority believes
that damage to the reef caused by the
recent floods could be the worst of its
type in 36 years.
An authority spokesman said ex
perts who had checked flood damage
to the reef recently had reported that
coral was dying already in the Keppel
Reef, off Rockhampton, because of
flooding in the Fitzroy River.
In some areas fresh water, which
kills coral, is lying like a blanket over
the surface of the sea to a depth of
about 2m, and is not being mixed
with sea water because of the calm
weather. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/122339489
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It looks like the reef could need a good bombing. 1951 “On making a check since his return, he had found that a proclamation had been issued in November, 1943 declaring Fairfax Island an R.A.A.F. bombing target.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/216609793
“Fairfax Islands Reef was last surveyed in October 2017.”
http://apps.aims.gov.au/reef-monitoring/reef/23081S
60
Well we use good intentions to save our planet and its inhabitants from warming so we installed wind farms that chopped birds up then we invented solar arrays that fried birds now we want to pick on fish and make sushi .
170
Scomo the sushi king.
50
Not only the fish, Robert, but think of all those other sea creatures doomed to be sliced and diced by the whirling blades – whales, dolphins, and worst of all, sharks!
Will man’s inhumanity to sundry creatures of nature never end?
70
What can we expect if the sea gets colder? Heaters?
190
And what say some lime feeder to combat the “””acidity”””.
130
So what will happen when global cooling sets in? Will they turn them into giant heaters? Just let the climate be the climate and the politicians be …., well you know what.
140
As you know bleaching is caused by a drop in sea level, happens during strong El Nino. so we need to build a concrete wall around the shallow coral to prevent this happening.
They will need to be quick, global cooling has begun and sea level is bound to fall.
121
Well it looks like volcanoes are on the rise. The Siberian one is now active. If Martin Armstrong is right there will be many more over the next couple of years so we should see significant cooling by then. If so there could also be food shortages as crop yields decline. It’s probably too late now but the smart thing would have been to stockpile wheat and other commodities big time. Of course we never do the smart thing given the total lack of vision of our leaders.
120
PeterS:
Australia is bound by international treaty to maintain a minimum of 60 days crude oil usage in case of trouble in the Middle East. You know those International Treaties that are sacrosanct e.g. the Paris Accord, various ‘donations’ to the UN bottomless pit etc. so how is this Treaty observed. Presumably it has been filed somewhere in Canberra because if there is trouble in the ME we will be the first to run out of oil. Mind you, we’ve shut down most of our refining capacity as well. If they ever showed the ability to think ahead I would say it was planned by the Greens but in the absence of any rational thought there it is probably another Green mighty stuff up.
100
According to the Dept of Environment, Australia has about 50 days of petroleum imports coverage. Back in 2010 when we had more oil refineries we had close to 90 days.
20
Back in Sept. 2016 I was told that we had 21 days.
20
Warming, cooling, sea levels rising, sea levels falling, all against some mythical norm.
I am waiting for “La Mano de la Mancha”, to enter from stage left.
141
I actually wonder what the full cost is if the Feds are kicking in a $2.2 million contribution.
81
Also important was the wailing about the Reef being dead in 15 years .
91
They look as though they may be real wizz bang Frisbees in a cyclone.
150
What great FADS (Fish Attracting Devices) then following the next cyclone, artificial reefs.
100
Can we also put some windmills at the other side of the area to harvest the wind?
110
They need to put some wave generators out there and connect them to the fans and they’ll have a perpetual motion machine.
100
Oil rigs would be far superior.
130
Fantastic!
51
Fantasia in Southern Wonderland!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWKKJwBXir4
Ooh thank you Mr Turnbull, well worth the money.
50
MALCOLM ABDUL TURNCOAT TURNBULL……..dead man walking……….
92
Who knows how and why these things get funded?
The trail leading to the diesel subs seems to lead back to the French being forced to stop providing chopper carriers to Russia and then sell them too cheaply to Egypt instead. The ridiculous SA deal was some sort of compensation negotiated by NATO or god-knows-who. Maybe.
There is probably a reason for this shocking waste (and possible damage to the reef) but waste, unlike thrift, tends to be a convoluted affair, with good money following bad, a mix of extortion and blandishments. Someone dumping a budget? A tax break or regulatory loophole? Like when the Danes were making oil out of sand eels? Like when the Poms were forced to chip, ship and incinerate American forests?
One thing is sure. Being green has nothing to do with conservation. Conservation is now a forgotten value.
200
Coserve ation is about conserving, or being conservative, don’t forget who we are talking about here. Your local SJW is nothing like a conservative.
90
I am not a big fan of this proposal. I would prefer to see tax payers funds directed to feeding Santa’s reindeers XMAS eve.
180
Obviously the current “advisors” that the federal “government” are using are deranged lunatics residing in padded cells in mental asylums !!!
SO ANGRY WITH ALL THIS CRAP !!!!!!!!
130
With the cost to “protect” the whole Great Barrier Reef coming in at $757 billion dollars, it could be more sensible just to ignore the whole idea. Even if the worst does happen, we could just content ourselves at looking at the old photos or visit the ones of Kimbe Bay New Guinea which do not seem to be in any trouble although they are in hotter water.
140
50 Billion of it may be to buy the new submarines, which could then be used to tow icebergs from Antarctica to the reef. They could also load ice, shaped like torpedoes, into their tubes, and fire the ‘torpedoes’ at Crown of Thorns starfish. That’ll show ’em!
11
equally insane?
6 Dec: UK Times: Emily Gosden: Trackside solar power offers cut in rail costs
Rail companies could cut their costs by millions of pounds a year by installing trackside solar panels to power electric trains, enabling them to cut fares for passengers, according to a report.
Installing solar farms and batteries alongside lines also could provide the extra energy needed to power more carriages on busy routes that otherwise would require prohibitively expensive upgrades to electricity networks.
The study, by Imperial College London’s Energy Futures Lab and 10:10, a climate change charity, found that it would be commercially viable to meet 10 per cent of the power required for traction on Britain’s electric railways by installing solar arrays without any subsidy.
The report comes a day after it was announced that rail fares would increase by an average of…
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/trackside-solar-power-offers-cut-in-rail-costs-bs7kbznm2
100
Pat,
The world seems to have reached PEAK STUPIDITY……….
160
No not yet Angry but they’re working on it as fast as they can .
91
It cannot be stated too often:
“Only two things are infinite: the Universe, and human stupidity; and I am not certain of the former.”
— A. Einstein
90
Just wait until Mr. Musk starts breeding.
90
He already has tomomason, six of the little blighters at last count.
They breed like musk-rats those multi-citizenship holders.
70
Not there yet.
60
We left peak stupidity in the dust years ago. We are now well into the times of irreversible idiocy….
30
Ahh destroyer you got me thinking , why not try drenching the Reef in a sports drink because it’s got everything you need .
00
The spray can guys would have a field day, amazing amount of graffiti on anything alongside a railway track, this would give them oa whole new canvas.
80
The study, by Imperial College London’s Energy Futures Lab and 10:10, a climate change charity
10:10?
That would be the mob who released ‘No Pressure’, the blood filled short film that blew up school children who dared to suggest that CO2 wasn’t completely evil.
Good to see they are still around and still in the comedy business.
60
What annoys me with crazy ideas like this is that when the reef recovers in the next 12 months or so which would be inevitable if we do nothing, these idiots will think that it was due to spending money on these fans. Then they will start putting these things everywhere. More money down the global warming drain.
150
Who will be master?’ says Humpty and says
Guvuhmint. Depending on some perceived
problem, possibly hob-goblin, we git fiat
decision making (involving other people’s
$$$)-costly desalination plants or similar
phantasmagoria like ‘cooling the reef’ init
-iatives. Say, something’s rotten in the
institutions when bureaucracy…to introduce
another metaphor, ‘A ship of fools,’can rule,
(far out!) w/out proper institutional checks
and balances.
80
Zigmaster, @ #19
Being practical, rational, realistic, sensible and careful with tax payers funds when it comes to academically promoted Coral Reef science will get you no funding, no respect, no reward, no academic advancement [ the opposite will be the case ] no approval for future projects, no travel and conference expenses approved , personally ostracized and ignored along with a casual disregard and dismissal of any of your papers along with an outright refusal to publish those papers no matter how much impact they might have.
This is after all is how much of scienceqworks today, particularly any science that has even a hint that it might be connected to the Climate catastrophe we are all waiting so earnestly for which over the next
100 days,etc- etc- etc– to unfold and destroy all life and the 4.5 billion year old planet.And just to make the folks here aware of the extremely delicate knife edge that we and all life on this planet is living on and how it relates to the survival of life on this planet , a paper that shows tremendous imagination allied with an unparalleled level of intellectal vacuousness on ocean life and its potentially very severe impact on the planet as highlighted by” C3 Science”
Climate Doomsday Science: Study Finds That Worm Farts Could Be The Tipping Point
41
You bloody beauty.
It’s no show without the old “tipping point”.
30
Well, after the end Permian extinction there were clams everywhere on the sea floor** AND the temperature went up. It’s true there was a short ice age but who’s to say if that mightn’t have been worse but for the flatulent clams, whose output would have been quickly converted to the dreaded CO2. And the warmth continued for millions of years, going up as the CO2 increased, going down as the CO2 shot up, going up as the CO2 came down.
** Owing to the lack of animals that could eat them. Indeed there weren’t such animals for millions of years but when there were, that species of clam was nearly wiped out. Fortunately without affecting the rise in the Temperature.
But we have other emitting sources, notably all those bean eating believers in AGW. Emitting methane at one end and CO2 at the other…quite irresponsible. The Government needs to spend millions placing them under 20 feet of sea water for a year long trial.
40
slow to learn:
5 Dec: UK Times: Emily Gosden: Subsidy cut as batteries fail to hold their charge
The government has slashed the level of subsidies that developers of big batteries will receive to help to keep the lights on, after concluding that the products may not last long enough to prevent a blackout.
Ministers have been backing the development of giant lithium-ion batteries, which can help to balance supply and demand on the grid by storing surplus electricity for use at times of scarcity.
Most batteries built in Britain can provide their maximum output for only half an hour to an hour, however. New analysis from National Grid shows that a power shortage crisis would be likely to last two hours.
As a result, the government said yesterday that it was significantly reducing the level of subsidy that such limited-duration batteries could secure through its “capacity market” scheme. The change could make it harder for some proposed new batteries to go ahead, as generally they are not commercially viable without some sort of subsidy. Ministers said that it would “reduce the risk of insufficient capacity being secured”.
Under the capacity market, energy companies win subsidy contracts by guaranteeing to provide a certain amount of power capacity in a system “stress event”, when national supplies run low. The costs of the subsidies are passed on to consumers’ energy bills…
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/subsidy-cut-as-batteries-fail-to-hold-their-charge-s33kmpbbk
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Those SA batteries are getting a daily workout up to 30 MW.
50
Does that dialy 30Mw cycling count towards the total number of charges/discharges that determine the battery life? At 1500 cycles it will last less that 5 years.
O/T But the new 50Mw super solar array in Queensland only manages to contribute 10Mw most of the time according to the AEMO web site.
40
If the batteries are ‘not commercially viable without subsidies’ then surely they are simply ‘not commercially viable’; end of story.
10
PICS: 7 Dec: ABC: Australia’s biggest wind turbine blades trucked 530km to far west NSW wind farm
ABC Broken Hill By Declan Gooch
Two of the 65-metre blades were towed from Port Adelaide in South Australia to Silverton, near Broken Hill, over the course of about 12 hours on Wednesday.
They are destined for AGL’s Silverton wind farm project, a $460 million development that will see 58 turbines built in the Barrier Range near the township.
The project is scheduled for completion in 2018…
AGL project manager Adam Mackett said the 530km trip had required a great deal of planning, as well as some roadworks.
“When you talk about delivering a blade that’s 65 metres long, you can imagine there’s some tight turns and curves that need to be negotiated, and some works that need to be done on those respective ones,” Mr Mackett said.
“People living in Silverton will be familiar with what we’ve done close to town, and we have to look at the same sort of geometry and issues further out of town as they come up from Port Adelaide.”
A new road was built to allow the trucks to bypass Broken Hill, without which they would have had to negotiate a tight roundabout.
PHOTO CAPTION: Photo: The truck makes the delicate turn off the Barrier Highway onto a specially-built bypass road to Silverton
Mr Mackett said the delivery of the first blades marked the start of a series of large deliveries that would last months…
The project ran into some opposition in Silverton, where residents were concerned about the effects on tourism, local roads and the water supply.
AGL promised several sweeteners for the community, including home solar panels for every resident and an effort to improve mobile phone reception…
Components for the General Electric turbines are being manufactured in Germany, Spain and Korea.
The project has required a new transmission line and substation to be constructed to cope with the additional power being sent into Broken Hill.
It is owned by the Powering Australian Renewables Fund and managed by AGL.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-07/australias-biggest-wind-turbine-blades-trucked-silverton-nsw/9236010
40
As I said in the last thread Silverton is the home of the mad max museum so it’s sort of fitting .
No sign of any works when we were there in may /June but it will change the landscape for the worse .
30
“Components for the General Electric turbines are being manufactured in Germany, Spain and Korea.”
Well, pat, I didn’t need to read to the end of the sentence to know which country would definitely not be on the list of manufacturers.
70
So the road bypass was built using … hmm diesel, and the trucks run on hmm diesel and cranes they need to lift them into place run on Hm diesel and the blades are made from hmm Carbon, and Hmm oil and solid electricity (aluminium and glass fibre) then the environment has to be flattened for a few hectares around them reducing sinking of Hmm CO2.
Anyone see a trend here, anyone wonder whether these will save an ounce of CO2 because they WONT.
140
Oh well if you’re going to put it like that anything looks bad ! (Sarc)
50
But isn’t Silverton a superb location.
It is not a windy area.
It will be 20kms from the nearest “population centre”, Broken Hill (about 18,000 and decreasing).
It will be 550kms from a decent sized population centre (Adelaide).
Line losses must be a thing of the past.
AGL is the same crazy crowd wanting to shut Liddell.
This concept is almost as crazy as fans to cool the GBR.
Is there some competition going on in the taverns to come up with the craziest scheme?
30
Isn’t it El Niño that cause the worst of the bleaching and isn’t that a natural phenomenon which is the reason why the Reef adapts so well to a changing environment and climate just as it’s done for Millenia.
51
Yes robert rosicka, but you have to understand that corals are very, very fragile and can barely survive the merest hint of a sea temperature rise. Consider that the coral atoll of Bikini Atoll only just manage to survive a direct H-Bomb attack before heroically staging a vigorous grow back.
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Bikini Atoll: 23 nuclear devices detonated between 1946 and 1958 at seven test sites on the reef, on the sea, in the air and underwater for a combined fission yield of 42.2 Mt of explosive power.
Those poor delicate little polyps.
130
Oxybenzone. That’s what kills corals. It’s one of the active ingredients in a high SPF rated sunscreen. It only needs to be present in tiny concentrations in the sea water to wreak its fatal effect.
10
7 Dec: Australian: Graham Lloyd: Wind turbine health fears warrant study, says tribunal
There is a plausible basis for thinking noise from wind turbines may lead to adverse health outcomes, such as to warrant further investigation, Victoria’s Administrative Appeals Tribunal has found.
An appeals judgment on the charitable trust status of the industrial noise lobby group Waubra Foundation said it was not necessary for the AAT to draw conclusions as to the precise nature of the annoyance or how it arose.
It accepted that “conducting, supporting and advocating for further research or engaging in awareness-raising activities could be properly characterised as activities promoting the prevention or control of diseases”…
However, the AAT said it did not follow that the Waubra Foundation’s other activities, in particular its responses to requests for information, its support and assistance to those complaining of the perceived effects of wind farm sound, and its participation in litigation were also to be regarded as the promotion for the prevention or control of diseases.
***As a result, the AAT upheld an earlier judgment which effectively stripped the Waubra Foundation of its tax deductible status.
Waubra Foundation chief executive Sarah Laurie said the group was considering its options…
The AAT heard evidence about the state of scientific knowledge on the possible health impacts of turbines. It did not attempt to solve the issue or rule on whether annoyance may be caused by sound which is not audible (infrasound).
“That is something which we expect will be the subject of further study,” the AAT said. “For our purposes, it is sufficient that annoyance is produced, and it appears that it may be associated with adverse health outcomes…
The AAT said it regarded as significant that the National Health and Medical Research Council had provided $3.3 million to investigate the issue.
55 COMMENTS AT TIME OF POSTING
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/wind-turbine-health-fears-warrant-study-says-tribunal/news-story/6fc2e9d796ce39737d153ff98cd70dc1
Hannam needs a wind farm in his back yard:
4 Dec: SMH: Peter Hannam: ‘Sound judgment’ strips anti-wind Waubra Foundation of its low-tax status
A prominent anti-wind farm group has been stripped of its status as a tax-deductible charity status in a potentially landmark legal decision that could affect treatment of other groups claiming to promote health.
The Administrative Appeals Tribunal in Adelaide affirmed a decision by the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission (ACNC), first issued in December 2014, to remove the Waubra Foundation’s registration as a “health promotion charity”…
A range of international health bodies, including Australia’s National Health and Medical Research Council, have investigated the effects of wind farms on human health and found little evidence of such links…
“The ACNC places great importance on sound judgment and decisions and will use this case to guide considerations about future charity applications,” (Murray Baird, the ACNC’s acting commission) said in a statement…
Simon Holmes a Court, a senior advisor to the Energy Transition Hub at Melbourne University, welcomed the tribunal’s decision as “the final nail in the coffin for the Waubra Foundation”.
“It’s hard to think of any organisation that’s done more to foment community division and frustrate the development of clean energy in Australia,” he said…
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/sound-judgment-strips-antiwind-waubra-foundation-of-its-lowtax-status-20171205-gzz19v.html
40
7 Dec: UK Times: Ben Webster: End of wind turbine ‘blight’ after Lake District campaign
A dozen 140ft wind turbines on the edge of the Lake District are due to be dismantled next summer after a decision which could result in many more being removed to restore views.
The wind farm on Kirkby Moor on the Furness peninsula in Cumbria would be the first large one to be taken down since they began appearing around Britain in 1991.
South Lakeland district council refused an application by the wind farm operator to keep the turbines operating for another ten years until 2027.
Under the original planning permission, granted in 1992, the turbines have to be removed by August 26 next year.
The council’s decision follows a campaign by the Friends of the Lake District (FLD) and the Open Spaces Society (OSS),…
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/end-of-wind-turbine-blight-after-lake-district-campaign-kirkby-moor-on-the-furness-peninsula-friends-of-the-lake-district-open-spaces-society-ff8l673p5
100
2 Dec: Bloomberg: Was Once Hailed as First U.S. Offshore Wind Farm Is No More
By Brian Eckhouse and Joe Ryan
Cape Wind project halts development efforts, cancels lease
Faced strong local opposition, lost power contracts in 2015
Cape Wind, the offshore wind project off the coast of Massachusetts that drew the ire of the Kennedy and Koch families, is officially dead.
Energy Management Inc. has ceased efforts to build what was once expected to become the first offshore wind farm in the U.S., according to an emailed statement from Chief Executive Officer Jim Gordon. The project’s Boston-based developer has already notified the U.S. Bureau of Ocean Energy Management that it has terminatsed the offshore wind development lease it received in 2010.
Cape Wind suffered a slow death. Efforts to develop the 468-megawatt offshore farm, proposed to supply power to Cape Cod and the islands of Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket, began in 2001 but came up against relentless opposition from a mix of strange bedfellows including the Kennedy family and billionaire industrialist William Koch. While Energy Management won several court battles, the project couldn’t survive the 2015 cancellation of contracts to sell its power to local utilities.
“Jim Gordon really was a visionary,” Amy Grace, a New York-based analyst for Bloomberg New Energy Finance, said in an interview Friday. “He brought the project to the goal-post. He just faced a very vicious and very well-funded lobbying organization to protect Nantucket Sound.”
Cape Wind, which called for as many as 130 turbines in Nantucket Sound, once appeared to be on the vanguard of clean energy in the U.S. The project had a federal lease to develop an area 5 miles (8 kilometers) off Cape Cod. Spread over 25 square miles known as Horseshoe Shoal, it could have generated enough electricity to power 200,000 homes, according to the U.S. Energy Department.
The $2.6 billion project also had backing from powerful players. Cape Wind had a conditional $150 million loan guarantee from the Energy Department. Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, Rabobank Group and Natixis SA agreed to lead a $400 million debt package. And Siemens AG was considering a $100 million equity investment.
In the end, however, opposition proved insurmountable. While environmental groups argued that it would reduce the region’s reliance on fossil fuel, critics — including owners of local shore-front estates — countered it would spoil views from Cape Cod and disrupt fishing areas.
In the meantime, the offshore wind industry slowly began to take off in the U.S. Deepwater Wind LLC completed the first project in 2016, a 30-megawatt wind farm south of Block Island in Rhode Island waters. Norway’s Statoil ASA is planning one in New York, off the Long Island coast, and developers have proposed several other projects up and down the East Coast.
Several of the developers have said they learned a key lesson from Cape Wind: don’t try to build within sight of shore.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-01/cape-wind-developer-terminates-project-opposed-by-kennedys-koch
30
They planned a wind farm for Nantucket,
But Old Money gave it the bucket,
The Kennedy clan,
Brought in a ban,
And said, “no”.
60
Among the ol’ money echelon,
some regional, environmental
initiatives are more equal
than others.
30
And furiously fanning the sea around corals will help them?
Stirring up water around the corals as more gases from the air get dissolved into it.
Does that help or hinder coral life?
Does anyone know?
70
It must be an experiment, to see how fast coral can be further damaged.
00
Hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNxujJGnbB4
20
where’s Ned Kelly when you need him?
6 Dec: WeeklyTimesNow: Glenrowan West residents invoke Ned Kelly in solar energy stoush
by ALLAN THOMPSON
GLENROWAN West residents have vowed to do everything they can to stop a planned $170 million solar farm from being built on their doorstep.
The proposed ESCO Pacific solar farm would sit on a 245ha site with its 360,000 east-west-tracking solar panels capable of generating 120MW of electricity — enough to power 40,000 homes.
It is one of three solar farm proposals up for approval before North East councils for a 5.5km strip of land between Glenrowan and Winton, just east of the Hume Freeway, an attractive site due to its location next to an AusNet substation that can feed electricity straight into the national grid…
Residents argue that not only would the solar farm consume prime agricultural land, it would provide few benefits to the local community, and reduce the value of their homes…
“The electricity is fed into the national grid, so locals don’t get cheap power. It also provides very few ongoing jobs,” Mr Cutler said.
“So our lifestyle is significantly impacted so people in Melbourne can keep their lights on at night. They profit from our misery.”…
“Who is responsible for regeneration, who carts away the panels if it turns into a white elephant,” Mr Cutler asked.
“Someone has to have the guts to stand up to these companies and stop selling people out. They wouldn’t get away with it if Ned Kelly was still in town.”…
http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/glenrowan-west-residents-invoke-ned-kelly-in-solar-energy-stoush/news-story/f039226ec9594d520220946a25c419f2
6 Dec: Rapid City Journal: Bob Mercer: State rejects request for extension from Crocker Wind Farm
PIERRE – The South Dakota Public Utilities Commission turned down the request from Crocker Wind Farm for reconsideration Tuesday.
Commissioner Chris Nelson received “yes” votes from commissioner Gary Hanson and chairwoman Kristie Fiegen to reject it again. The panel halted the Clark County project Oct. 25. One reason: Crocker Wind Farm submitted multiple layouts for where its turbines would be.
Reese Almond, a Sioux Falls lawyer representing landowners from the county, said state law calls for the application to contain one design…
(Brett Koenecke, a Pierre lawyer for the wind project) said he has told Clark County’s lawyers, who are based in Aberdeen, “in writing” that the company accepts the three-quarters of a mile setback requirement from the county planning board. “That’s an issue that’s no longer on the table in our minds,” he said…
But Koenecke said the company remains concerned about the single plan being required. He said a single plan wasn’t required for the Buffalo Ridge II project in eastern South Dakota. “In my view it’s our rule to waive,” Koenecke said about the six-month requirement. “We’re willing to give more time.”
The number of towers decreased. “There won’t be more. There’s going to be less as a result of this process,” Koenecke said…
http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/state-rejects-request-for-extension-from-crocker-wind-farm/article_3585fd90-7bc0-56ef-acd6-7e5031d9a2db.html
30
Oddly enough I haven’t heard anything more about the solar farm since the project was announced , its about six kilometres away from me where they want to build it.
There is another one being planned for ages just the other side of Wangaratta but have no idea on that one either .
Don’t read the local rag as it’s coloured green these days .
31
Well it seems we have come full circle in the scientific stupidity stakes.
Not so long ago there was another climate gold rush as numerous outfits thought they could skim lots of cream from the tax payer cake by proposing to extract emmissions free energy from the sea using wave riders, undersea turbines [ which I think lasted less than about a week up Scotland’s way and cost a few million pounds ], sausage shaped devices that bobbed around in the waves and pumped air to a propeller system on shore I think, sea floor mechanical capets to capture wave pressures, Buoys anchored to the sea floor and bobbing up and down whilst reeling a cable that drives a generator in and out [ the atmospheric version is the Kite generator ] floaty things that use flaps to push air in and out past a big propeller and etc.
None of the above have worked or have worked for more than a very short time due to the always aggressive, abrasive, turbulent and non laminar flows of a saline ocean plus other chemical factors that etched away at anything and anything that those scientists presented to the ocean, plus the aggressively hungry free riding sea creatures of every concievable type and description which having found a brand new substrata so generously supplied by all those tax payer scamming ocean generator entrepreneurs to attach themselves to.
And did so with relish and in vast numbers thereby making a complete mes and debacle of all the claims of those scientific believers in theri own invincinbility and that they were a whole lot smarter than all of mankind twho had had been there and done all that that innumerable times before.
————–
Now at long last we finally have found another bunch of do -gooder, get our names up in lights, fund scamming, impractical, ivory towered, academic silo dwelling cowboys who are going to save the 3000 odd kilometres of the GBR from a fate worse than death, a fate destined to occur regardless so some claim from acidic ocean effects fro created by that deadly atmospheric gas CO2 that has been increasing in the atmosphere.
Thats if we are expected to believe yet another grandiose and self serving claim from those creators of the long running climate catastrophe sci-fi fiction, of a deadly gas that sooner or later and later and later will wipe out life on earth.
Now those delirium affected scientific geniuses instead of trying to extract energy from the ocean are going to use force involving lots of [ fossil fueled ??? ] energy to drive big underwater fans to mix the deep cooler waters 30 metres down off the GBR with the warmer waters at the surface so that the corals and the GBR can survive that man made warming that nobody can detect or prove or measure as yet and probably never will in this generation’s life time and no doubt, for many life times ahead.
Of course just waiting for small cyclone or two to come ashore across the reefs of the GBR mixing the waters right on down and drawing heat from the top 20 or 30 metres of water to drive the heat engine that is a cyclone and piling on in right behind the cyclone to see what effects the colder water has on the corals never seems to have occurred to this lot of two celled scientific whackos.
But then of course we must do everything we can to save the Reef!
Because we gotta think of the children you know, who will never know what
snow, a coral reef looks like ‘ if We Don’t Act Now .’[ /sarc ]
71
6 Dec: TribuneIndia: International Solar Alliance comes into force, Oz joins
Ahead of the International Solar Alliance (ISA) summit in India in early 2018, Australia has joined the alliance as it officially came into force on Wednesday.
A statement issued by Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs Julie Bishop said:
“Australia’s expertise in solar technologies and research will be shared globally with the formal creation of the International Solar Alliance today.
Australia is a world leader in the sector, with significant expertise in remote electrification and vital supporting technologies such as batteries and pumped hydro storage”… READ ON
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/international-solar-alliance-comes-into-force-oz-joins/509132.html
7 Dec: Bloomberg: Divert Capital for Green Projects a Goal for Solar Alliance
By Anindya Upadhyay
The International Solar Alliance, championed by India and France, came into effect Wednesday, aiming to promote affordable sun-powered electricity to its members through global tenders and cheap financing.
The inter-governmental agency, which has been ratified by 19 countries and has 46 signatories to its framework agreement, aims to mobilize $1 trillion of low-cost financing for solar energy by 2030, Upendra Tripathy, interim director general of the alliance said in an interview in New Delhi.
***“There is no shortage of capital as trillions of dollars are lying in big funds and our program seeks to help divert this into renewable energy,” Tripathy said, adding that the ISA is exploring green bonds for renewable energy projects and raising money in local currencies to remove hedging risks…
The member countries include Australia, Bangladesh and Somalia…
The agency is expected to bring out its first global tender for supplying 300,000 solar-powered pumps mainly in India, Bangladesh and Mauritius in the next three months, Tripathy said. The number could increase if more countries express interest in procuring the pumps…
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-06/international-solar-alliance-seeks-cheap-energy-via-global-bids
30
A UK company, http://www.tidalenergyltd.com , produced underwater fans to make electricity and are now in administration.
An Aussie company uses electricity so underwater fans can move water. Unbelievable. Only difference is tax payers money supports the, ahem, enterprise.
60
7 Dec: Reuters: Nichola Groom: U.S. solar manufacturers appeal to Trump team for stiff tariffs
Struggling U.S. solar panel makers on Wednesday made a final plea to President Donald Trump’s key trade policy advisers to support steep tariffs on foreign-made solar products, ahead of his imminent decision in a closely watched trade case.
Suniva and SolarWorld, which say an influx of cheap solar panel imports from China have made them unable to compete, appealed to the Trade Policy Staff Committee to recommend stiffer measures than proposed by members of the bipartisan International Trade Commission (ITC) in October.
“Strong remedies are exactly what are required,” Suniva Executive Vice President Matt Card told the committee at a hearing in Washington. “Unfortunately, right now, China is on the verge of winning their planned economic, energy and national security strategy for utterly destroying the U.S. solar manufacturing industry.”…
Trump’s decision, expected early next year, could have a major impact on the price of U.S. power generated by the sun. While panel makers want less foreign competition, installation companies rely on low-priced imports to compete with fossil fuels and have argued against tariffs…
The Section 201 process is unusual because the president, rather than trade officials, makes the final decision…
SolarWorld and Suniva have argued that domestic manufacturers could not have foreseen China’s massive investment in solar panel manufacturing capacity…
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-solar/us-solar-manufacturers-appeal-to-trump-team-for-stiff-tariffs-idUSKBN1E031S
7 Dec: Bloomberg: Daniel Flatly: Opponents Make ‘America First’ Case Against Solar Import Tariffs
Critics of imposing tariffs on solar panels used a signature policy priority of President Donald Trump to make the case that imposing that trade protection would be harmful to American businesses — and they say it’s already having an impact.
Adopting the proposed tariffs “will hinder, not help, American manufacturing,” Henry McMaster, governor of South Carolina, said during a hearing at the U.S. Trade Representative’s office Wednesday.
The Solar Energy Industries Association told members of a government panel that the threat of tariffs is already crimping demand for solar energy. If the issue is not resolved, it could have serious long-term effects, especially given the prevalence of cheap natural gas and wind energy…
The tariffs that have been proposed would be too high to allow new utility-scale solar projects, (Michael O’Sullivan, senior vice president of NextEra Energy Inc) said…
The U.S. International Trade Commission proposed that Trump set a tariff of up to 35 percent on imported solar panels. The all-day hearing including pleas from domestic installers, foreign supplier representatives and utilities that buy solar products…
Suniva urged Trump to impose higher tariffs than what the independent ITC recommended.
“The Chinese government has made dominance of the international solar market a national priority,” said Matt Card, Suniva’s executive vice president. “Unfortunately, the recommendations proposed by the commission are insufficient to remedy the serious injury to the domestic industry.”…
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-06/opponents-make-america-first-case-against-solar-import-tariffs
40
I could not see any mention of an environmental assessment of the effects of mixing bottom water ( with its associated fauna) with reef water (with vulnerable polyps).
Can one be certain that no larvae are disturbed that might acquire a taste for coral fauna?
Was it not Queensland that introduced cane toads into Australia as a “green” control of the pests on sugar cane?
How well did that work out?
80
How does the Climate Change industry manage to blame regular coral bleaching on increased CO2? Is every variation in water temperature now due to CO2? Where is the rapid, runaway increase in air temperature promised for 30 years? The seque blaming every change in the environment on the steady CO2 increase is amazing and completely without explanation. Every hurricane, every storm, every bushfire and soon even El Nino and La Nina will be due to CO2. There is not even the slightest attempt at any science anymore. The oceans stole my warming seems to be the story.
However these must be the last days of desperate Climate Change, where even the Pope tells us we only have another ten years to prevent Armageddon. How many times have we been given ten years? Prince Charles did it in 2009 “The Prince of Wales is to issue a stark warning that nations have “less than 100 months to act” to save the planet from irreversible damage due to climate. Ho hum. Expires in 15 months.
I thought Armageddon was a certainty and the basis of many religions, God’s punishment for our evil ways, so perhaps Christianity and man made Climate Change have become the same thing? Perhaps we should be praying and donating, not keeping prawns cool in summer at public expense.
50
As an retired Electronics Engineer my reaction is this is an insanely stupid idea. The GBR and all the creatures and other things that depend on the GBR environment to be what it’s been may not take very well to this EXPERIMENT.
60
If the fans are an actual attempt to increase tourism, then mermaids waving palm fronds would be an elegant solution.
110
In the “what can possibly go wrong” file, I wonder if the authors have considered to solubility and decomposition of calcium bi-carbonate at warm and cold temperatures. Calcium bicarbonate is stable in cold sea water but when its brought to the surface and mixed with warm seawater, the bi-carbonate breaks down releasing CO2 and depositing calcium carbonate. Their ant-bleaching system is likely to leave the reef covered in white powder. I think they have this problem on occasion on the west coast of North America when cold water wells up creating giant white clouds of precipitate and choking oysters and other mollusks.
60
The law of unintended consequences doesn’t apply they are saving the planet one Reef at a time .
20
Australians must have more money than they know what to do with.
40
Commonwealth Government debt of circa $600 Billion.
Annual budget deficit of circa $37 Billion.
Yep. We’re all idiots for putting up with it.
But what would you expect from the Turnbull left-wing spend-a-thon idiots?
Maybe the Australian Labor Party will fix it, as it did under Hawke and Keating in the 80s?
20
I’ve seen the same thing being used on the Thames, but it isn’t to cool the waters. It is to aerate them, since the lower levels can be low enough in oxygen to harm the fish.
20
The technique only works in confined & low-flow environments like rivers & lakes. The GBR is neither, it is on the edge of the open ocean and has a considerable intake of fresh ocean water daily.
I don’t know what would happen if you suddenly pumped a lot of hot (and therefore low in oxygen & nutrients) water down on top of the corals, displacing the cold (and therefore high in oxygen & nutrients) water. I think it would be quite harmful.
30
We Australians spent full time salaries and expenses on 350 CSIRO staff to investigate and prove man made Global Warming and Climate Change. Lets say 3,000 man years with expenses, perhaps $4,000,000,000. So, what was the result? A brochure? Now they are working on fixing the terrible consequences of CO2 caused man made Global Warming now known as Climate Change. When can we expect results? How long do Australian coral polyps have to suffer?
Has our government just gone mad, public servants spending our money on crazy schemes, ideas without merit? Worse, the massive expense does not have to be justified, before it happens, when it happens and after it happens. We, the people whose money is taken, are expected to turn off our airconditioners, work harder, keep quiet and not question. This is not a democracy. Taxation without justification, without explanation at any time. It is wrong. The government and the public service and the CSIRO in particular are stealing our money so they can play games in paradise at our expense.
It is just 500 years since Martin Luther asked what was happening to the money and demanded an end to the robbery, the pretending, the carbon indulgences. Man made Climate Change is not happening. The poor are being taxed for nothing. Just building machines try reversing nature at the Barrier Reef is wrong. King Canute could not turn back the tide. His public service went ahead with the scheme anyway, wasting thousands of chairs. Our government must be answerable for this incredible waste.
131
Don’t forget the opposition, they were in government for a while and are responsible too.
80
I thought it was all my fault.
I think I’ll go out and work in the gardern for a while . . . . . .
30
joseph,
Look out for Don Burke.
40
Dennis:
I refuse to use the word responsible in any connection with the current Labor mob.
50
Don’t use the word “labour” in relation to the labor mob.
10
Didn’t realise we had an opposition! What we have now is an LNP/ALP/Greens coalition, with social engineering policies at the forefront, record debt never to be mentioned by anyone and penalising the middle class at every opportunity. We have even reached the stage where they have purposefully made heating/cooling your home a luxury reserved only for the well off! Unrepresentative swill is an understatement.
120
‘…LNP/ALP/Greens coalition …’
Its a pseudo Marxist consortium, Cultural Marxism wears a green cloak.
80
It was interesting to read Delingpole’s history of the Green Nazis, vegetarian Hitler and tree and forest worship and the occult. Germany has been the engine of this Green political movement since they lost WWII. So it is not just Marxism, which had nothing to say on trees. The Greens may be better described as the ongoing Nazi party. Amazingly they pretend to be socialists, as did Adolph and his socialist party.
60
Is Merkel’s Germany the Fourth Reich?
50
They didn’t pretend. He and it were.
20
And it’s not April Fool’s day? Who is the federal government minister who approved this waste? Heads should roll, and this minister should be sacked. If not, voted out.
70
Humm, so the cold water below is drawn up to limit natural symbiont shuffling, and the cold water is presumably replaced by warmer water from above thereby disrupting the ecosystem at 30m below, and this also means that some people, typically the most vulnerable, are prevented by rising electricity costs and/or rationing from keeping themselves at a reasonable temperature. Have I missed anything?
Typical of government interventions, the law of unintended consequences means that none of the desired objectives are actually met, while the downsides are spread far and wide.
110
The non touristy parts of the reef can go to hell —- or not?
20
Personally, I find air conditioning works better than fans at cooling down the house.
20
I have a great idea.
In addition to cooling the GBR with fans we could go to a dental technician and have a set of teeth made for the Great Australian Bight.
80
With, or without, fluorosis?
40
The fans remind me of a comment made by a Japanese accountant during a very busy end of financial year period: “very big rotation but dangerous”.
Vicious circle.
30
When I saw the headline I thought it was a joke.
51
It was. And still is.
40
What a spectacular PR gimmick! Apart from the insane waste of tax dollars it does provide a good laugh.
On the bright side, assuming this system will actually do anything measureable, it will be interesting to compared the fanned with the unfanned areas. Not just the coral but the whole ecosystem. Would be even more interesting if somebody objective did that research.
Oh well. I guess, even for a coral reef, to have fans.
20
Edit: I guess it is good, even for a coral reef…
20
What’ll happen when the ship hits the fan?
110
Oh the stupidity!
Just lost for words to descibe the futility of this story.
GeoffW
60
Wind turbines work so why not ocean fans.
sarc
50
That’s not “sarc”. That’s paradox.
10
Dennis @ #51
sarcThey have been there, done that and have left without the T shirt and their trousers as well it seems.
——————
Somebody asked that question quite some time ago and then came up with the answer at a good lord only knows what cost and expense on the part of the British tax payer.
And in keeping of course with the universal mantra of just about every renewable energy project that has ever been thought of [ outside of hydro power,] “it seemed like a good idea at the time “.
AK-1000 Tidal Turbine Project, Scotland [ 2011 ]
And in keeping with just about every renewable project ever thought of ,”it seemed a good idea at the time” [ Nov 2016]
Atlantis Resources Corporation at EMEC
From memory the under surface turbine provided some power for about a week or so before its electrical system develped a fault which could not be corrected.
Despite the claim of a replacement for the Mk1 turbine by a Mk2 turbine there doesn’t seem to have been any further progress in this just another completely bizarre hideously expensive Renewable energy project as per the 2016 up date above from the supervising authority.
70
Say, did anyone else here watch The Goodies ‘Winter
Olympics?’ Used sky mirrors with climate change results.
Ended up with Summer Olympics swimming and diving events?
🙂
…And to think they showed it on the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04fqz1r
20
Those big, floating thingamabobs look expensive AND fragile, rather like the hundreds of pilot wave-energy installations that were built, installed and almost immediately sunk by storms.
It’s a good job the Barrier Reef area doesn’t suffer storms or cyclones then.
Wait….What?
30
meant to post an earlier piece on this situation, but will begin with inevitable U-turn:
7 Dec: BBC: China does U-turn on coal ban to avert heating crisis
China’s government has allowed some northern cities to burn coal in a temporary policy U-turn, as the country faces a heating crisis.
Beijing had banned the use of coal for heating this winter in an ambitious plan to reduce pollution…
But millions are reportedly now left without proper heating, after failing to switch from coal to other fuels in time for winter.
The coal ban has also reportedly led to a gas shortage as people rushed to switch to the alternative source, which has compounded the problem…
Chinese media reported on Thursday that the environment ministry had issued a directive to 28 cities across north-east China.
The statement said the ministry had “discovered that in some areas, works to replace coal with electricity or gas had yet to finish according to plan, and there were anxieties about fuel sources to provide heating”.
It said that such areas would be allowed to burn coal for heating, adding that in their transition away from coal, they must “continue to ensure that the number one principle should be keeping people warm in winter”.
Surviving the ‘heart-breaking’ cold
By BBC Beijing bureau
In one Hebei province primary school, classes have moved outdoors as students seek the warmth of the sun. They are among 11 primary schools in Quyang county without heating.
One father, Li Chaoxi, told the BBC that pupils were asked to bring corncobs to school to burn in order to heat their classrooms without violating the coal ban.
“It’s heart-breaking! It was like that when I went to school decades ago; and it remains the same for my kid?” Li said.
Some residents have voiced concerns that the work to install heating systems simply wasn’t carried out in time. Quyang resident Jin Zhanfeng told the BBC: “It’s been crystal clear: it won’t be done as planned. Even contractors are in no rush installing heating equipment.”
Others are silent. fearing eviction. In Beijing’s Shunyi art district, a gas pipeline installation won’t be completed until next year. “We can’t complain, can’t cause trouble to our compound,” said a resident who asked to remain anonymous.
Banners put up around the country with slogans like “If the boiler’s coal-fired then get rid of it” and “Anyone who sells or burns coal shall be arrested” constantly remind people of how strict the policy is…
Subzero temperatures
But with subzero temperatures in some areas, many have voiced outrage and disappointment online.
“Making the air clean could lead to leaving poor people in the cold,” one person complained on microblogging network Weibo. Another asked: “This policy has a good purpose but how can it be implemented in such a way?”
Residents in many cities have complained online about heating being cut off in the night. “We are frozen to death, please help us,” said one Hebei resident on Weibo…
On Thursday a commerce ministry spokesman said that gas imports are set to rise with new gas pipelines and liquefied natural gas terminals on the way, in remarks reported by state news agency Xinhua.
But the state-owned Chinese National Petroleum Corporation has warned that the country might face further shortages of gas if the country is hit with “extreme” cold weather, Reuters news agency reported.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42266768
20
earlier piece I forgot to post. love the usual faux CAGW concern for the poor, and blame for the middle class!
4 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: No heating at -6C: Poor bear brunt of Beijing’s air cleanup
Urban demands for cleaner air have left residents of surrounding towns without heating and cooking as coal systems are ripped out and gas supply falters
By Li Jing in Zhuozhou
While middle class Beijingers breath the cleanest air in recent winters, in Zhuozhou, a small city just 20 minutes by train from the capital’s downtown, residents are shivering through cold nights without heating.
The reason: a five-year anti-pollution drive has forced rural areas in northern China to switch from dirty coal to the cleaner alternative. The massive retrofitting campaign has sent gas prices soaring while many are left without heating systems at all…
In two villages close to Zhuozhou’s high-speed railway station, on the city’s eastern edge, villagers estimate only about one third of homes have been connected with natural gas supply, while others say they’re still anxiously waiting for the gas company to install furnaces. Their old fashioned coal stoves were all demolished as the government intensified efforts to phase out coal use in rural homes.
As temperatures drop to around -6C, they say nights are “increasingly unbearable”, especially for seniors and toddlers. A street cleaner said he had to burn firewood to keep warm.
“It is very cold, but there’s nothing we can do except wait,” a mother who was picking up her seven-year-old boy from school said, reluctant to be named.
Urban residents of Zhuozhou are more vocal about their grievances, as the sudden increase in natural gas demand means disruption in supply for existing users.
“Every day, from 7pm to early next morning, there’s no heating. Sometimes the gas supply is not stable when cooking,” said a taxi driver who gave his surname as Feng.
Hebei provincial government, which administers Zhuozhou, issued an orange alert for natural gas supply on 28 November. It is the second on a four-tier warning system, indicating a demand-supply gap between 10% and 20% that will have a “relatively big impact” on economic and social operation…
Liu Deshun, an official with National Energy Administration estimated that natural gas consumption in 2017 could hit 240 billion cubic metres, more than 14% higher than in 2016. He admitted “no one has expected” the surging demand…
There has also been a substantial underestimation of coal use – and subsequent demand for natural gas – in these rural areas, due to poor energy statistics.
The surge in demand has driven up prices for those who are connected. The official China Energy News reported price for liquefied natural gas (LNG) has doubled in two weeks since mid-November, dealing a heavy blow for both industrial and residential users.
A villager in Zhuozhou who was lucky enough to have gas supply – although unstable – said he was very worried about the rising cost of keeping warm. He expects to spend more than 6000 yuan (around $900) – or twice of what he paid for coal – this winter.
Studies have shown China’s middle class urban dwellers are increasingly willing to pay for cleaner air. Yet this winter, vulnerable groups in less developed areas are bearing the brunt of the cleanup costs.
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/12/04/no-heating-6c-poor-bear-brunt-beijings-air-cleanup/
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comment in moderation re: 4 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: No heating at -6C: Poor bear brunt of Beijing’s air cleanup
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ignored the bit of CAGW spin in this one:
8 Dec: Reuters: China coal imports rise in November despite push against pollution
Reporting by Muyu Xu and Josephine Mason
Chinese coal imports rose in November from the month before on firm demand during the winter heating season…
Shipments into the world’s top coal importer reached 22.05 million tonnes in November, up 3.6 percent from October, but down from 26.97 million tonnes a year ago, data from the General Administration of Customs showed on Friday.
The figures include lignite, a type of coal with a lower heating value that is largely supplied by Indonesia.
Year-to-date imports were up 8.4 percent at 284 million tonnes, according to the data…
“Coal traders are seeking cheaper fuel from overseas markets as miners in China have been ordered to cut capacity to tackle environmental and safety inspections,” said Zhang Min, analyst at Sublime Info.
Coal prices in China CZCcv1 have risen steadily this year, touching their highest since at least 2015 at 688.8 yuan ($104.07) a tonne on Dec.4.
Utilities in northern China have been running at full tilt since November as households crank up heating systems for winter, while a plan to convert many cities to cleaner fuels has run into headwinds.
The Ministry of Environmental Protection recently told local authorities that have not converted to gas or electric heating that they may burn coal or other fuels, media reported.
“Coal imports are expected to go up in December since many domestic coal miners are choosing to halt production for maintain (maintenance?),” said Zhang, adding that the suspension may involve about a third of monthly output.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-trade-coal/china-coal-imports-rise-in-november-despite-push-against-pollution-idUSKBN1E20CR
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The increase in Chinese coal imports is from Indonesia. Australian exports to China have been down a bit (thermal and coking).
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7 Dec: SouthChinaMorningPost: China U-turns on coal ban amid growing outcry over numbers left freezing in winter cold
Northern officials told that keeping people warm is ‘number one’ priority as dash for gas fails to ensure adequate power supplies
by Viola Zhou
In a “double urgent” letter dated Monday, the Ministry of Environmental Protection told authorities in 28 cities to relax the coal ban at places where the conversion process had not been completed, People’s Daily reported on Thursday…
“Keeping people warm in winter should be the number one principle,” the letter said, adding that the ministry would pay special attention to the issue during future inspections.
It was unclear whether the easing of the ban would apply to other cities, but the ministry could not be immediately reached for comment…
But while coal has been banned in villages and communities, many residents have yet to be provided with an alternative.
According to recent media reports, pupils at schools in some rural areas whose coal-fired heaters had been dismantled were forced to study outside – as it was warmer than inside – or run around to generate body heat…
The education ministry said it had ordered local governments to resolve the heating problem immediately after the reports prompted an outburst of criticism on social media.
“The children’s [suffering] has indeed hurt our hearts badly,” ministry spokeswoman Xu Mei said at a news briefing on Wednesday, according to Xinhua.
The environmental campaign has helped push demand for gas to new highs, but a lack of storage and transport infrastructure means supply is failing to keep pace, the company said in a research report…
As a result, the government would help energy companies to increase imports of natural gas via cross-border pipelines and liquefied natural gas terminals, commerce ministry spokesman Gao Feng said on Thursday.
Gas imports in the first 10 months of the year rose 24.9 per cent from the same period of 2016, he said…
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2123270/china-u-turns-coal-ban-amid-growing-outcry-over-numbers
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5 Dec: CTV Canada: China not able to join Canada-U.K. coal phase out alliance: McKenna
by Mia Rabson, The Canadian Press
Environment Minister Catherine McKenna says getting China into Canada’s international alliance to wean the world off coal power would be a huge win, but the world’s most populous country can’t make that kind of commitment right now.
McKenna is in Beijing this week as part of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s China trade mission.
She tells The Canadian Press she trusts that China is committed to climate change, has installed a significant amount of renewable energy, is cutting back on building new coal plants and is on track to meet its commitment to see its emissions peak before 2030…
But while she has discussed coal with Chinese officials, getting them into the alliance is not on the table.
“I just don’t think they’re in a position to sign on yet,” she said.
Twenty nations signed onto the Canada-United Kingdom Powering Past Coal Alliance at the United Nations climate change conference in Germany last month. None of them are among the world’s biggest consumers of coal power, such as China, the United States, India, Germany and Japan.
The goal is to grow the group to 50 within a year, but the 20 in the alliance right now are already among the world’s least dependent on coal, including five which don’t use coal at all…
China is the world’s No. 1 producer and consumer of coal, consuming more of it than the rest of the world combined. In 2014, about 70 per cent of its power supply and 71 per cent of its emissions came from burning coal. There are nearly 4,000 coal-fired plants in operation across the country…
About nine per cent of Canada’s emissions — and 10 per cent of the country’s electricity — came from burning coal in 2015, the last year for which emissions data is available…
McKenna acknowledged having China at the Powering Past Coal Alliance table would be hugely beneficial to bringing the rest of the world into the coal-phase out plan.
“Maybe at some point they will be ready, but ultimately every country has to figure it out,” she said…
Catherine Abreu, executive director of Climate Action Network Canada, said while China should get credit for agreeing to cancel more than 100 planned coal plants at home, Chinese companies are still one of the biggest players in building coal plants internationally.
Germany’s Urgewald environmental group tracks coal plants and says there are 1,600 new plants being planned in 62 countries. Chinese power companies are behind 700 of the plants, and about 140 of those are not in China.
Abreu said if Canada and the United Kingdom want their anti-coal alliance to have a real impact, they need to have difficult conversations with China about cutting back its international coal plant construction plans.
“That is something that China can absolutely make a move on and that Canada should be having a conversation about.”
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/china-not-able-to-join-canada-u-k-coal-phase-out-alliance-mckenna-1.3708186
Catherine Abreu – who are you to tell China what to do?
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8 Dec: Reuters: China’s November natural gas imports hit record, crude shipments rebound
by Meng Meng and Aizhu Chen
China’s natural gas imports in November rose to a record as domestic demand surged while crude imports were the second-highest ever, as refiners ramped up output to cash in on strong profits as fuel prices soar, customs data showed on Friday.
November gas arrivals, including pipeline imports and liquefied natural gas (LNG) shipments, hit 6.55 million tonnes, breaking a previous record of 6.1 million tonnes last December, data from the General Administration of Customs showed.
Year-to-date gas shipments were 60.7 million tonnes, on track to hit a record…
State energy firms stepped up imports months ahead of the heating season that started mid-November, with CNOOC, the country’s largest LNG importer, employing floating tankers as emergency backup and China National Petroleum Corp on Thursday warning of potential shortages.
Crude oil imports rose to 37.04 million tonnes in November, or 9.01 million barrels per day (bpd), up from 7.3 million bpd the previous month, and the second-highest level in history.
The data comes after the government recently released an additional 1.5 million tonnes in 2017 import quotas to three independent refineries.
Year-to-date crude imports rose 12 percent to 385.98 million tonnes or 8.44 million bpd.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-trade-crude/chinas-november-natural-gas-imports-hit-record-crude-shipments-rebound-idUKKBN1E20EI
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And the Greens keep saying that China will soon be a low emission zone.
Are the increases in fuel in any way related to lwer temperatures?
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Actually China’s CO2 emissions have somewhat plateaued or even declined over the last couple of years (see link below). I presume that’s because they are building huge numbers of nuclear and new generation coal fired power stations, and shutting down their old and less efficient coal fired power stations. We should do the same if we are to remain competitive and at the same time be good little boys in the eyes of the CO2 police in Paris. Otherwise, forget Australia – it’s heading for an economic disaster way before any supposed global warming disaster.
http://www.westernadvocate.com.au/story/5053750/a-step-back-emissions-rise-as-world-economy-gathers-pace/
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7 Dec: Bloomberg: China Winter Gas Binge Pushes It Toward No. 2 LNG Buyer Spot
By Dan Murtaugh and Anna Shiryaevskaya
China is ahead of schedule on its way to becoming the second-largest importer of liquefied natural gas.
The nation, already the world’s top energy user, is on the verge of passing South Korea to become the No. 2 buyer of LNG behind Japan, as environmental measures(?) and winter heating needs boost demand…
Bloomberg New Energy Finance in September forecast that it would take China until 2019 to surpass South Korea. Now the two countries are seen as neck and neck this year, BNEF analyst Maggie Kuang said. They both still lag behind Japan, which imports more than China and South Korea combined after LNG imports rose following the 2011 Fukushima disaster that shuttered most of the nation’s nuclear plants…
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-06/china-s-winter-gas-splurge-pushes-it-toward-no-2-lng-buyer-spot
behind paywall:
7 Dec: CaixinGlobal: Farmers Freeze as Coal Cleanup Campaign Backfires
By Huang Kaixi, Zhou Tailai and Li Rongde
https://www.caixinglobal.com/2017-12-07/rural-farmers-freeze-as-coal-cleanup-campaign-backfires-101182005.html
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The following article was originally published in the Global Times, usually seen as a Govt mouthpiece (though not so much the English version).
still, it is amazing it quotes ***Liu Huafang, a Beijing-based writer focusing on e-commerce, who has called ‘the transition in rural areas a ***”Great Leap Forward.”‘…
***Wikipedia: It is widely regarded by historians that The Great Leap resulted in tens of millions of deaths. A lower-end estimate is 18 million, while extensive research by Yu Xiguang suggests the death toll from the movement is closer to 55 million.
7 Dec: SputnikNews: North China’s Coal Ban Leaves Rural Residents Freezing
As yet another freezing winter currently descends on northern China, heating for many households in Hebei and other provinces in the region remains turned off.
Hebeinews.cn, the official website of the provincial government of Hebei Province, has recently been swamped with complaints from local residents about the lack of heating.
“We have had no heating since November 28. We consulted the gas company and they replied that gas is in short supply. No schedule about the restoration of gas was revealed,” a resident from Shijiazhuang posted on the website.
“Many residents have started returning to coal briquettes or canned gas to cook,” the resident goes on to say before desperately calling on the local government to solve the problem.
With winter setting in, such complaints also appeared in other northern provinces such as Shanxi and Shaanxi…
Combined with the heavy demand for heating in the winter, unsuccessful or delayed coal-to-gas transitions in other regions across the nation are affecting ordinary people, which has outraged many and aroused fierce discussions about the fine balance between environmental protection and the livelihood of those who live in it…
“Too hasty a transition from coal to gas is not necessarily a good thing,” wrote Liu Huafang, a Beijing-based writer focusing on e-commerce, on his Sina Weibo. He called the transition in rural areas a ***”Great Leap Forward.”…
Winter temperatures in Hebei Province can reach lower than minus 10 degrees, and yet many residents still do not have any source of heating in their homes. “My house is like an ice cave. And burning coal is not allowed. How can we survive the winter?” one netizen who lives in Hebei wrote in a complaint on hebeinews.cn…
In some Baoding townships, for example, equipment for burning coal for heating purposes has been dismantled, but gas heating systems have not yet been constructed, as reported by Caixin. People must use air-conditioners or electric heaters, both of which are extremely expensive to operate, just to get warm…
The Hebei Development and Reform Commission has issued an orange alert for a shortage of natural gas since November 28, which means all gas in the province will be reduced or completely cut off according to priority, with residence, hospitals and schools as the highest priorities, followed by vehicles, industrial usage and chemical engineering…
The impact of this emergency is already causing anxiety among local residents and industries. The Affiliated Hospital of Hebei University in Baoding city recently received a notice limiting their gas supply to just 2,729 cubic meters.
The hospital said it requires at least 20,000 cubic meters to ensure the continuation of normal operations and medical procedures, treatments and sterilizations for its daily 3,000 in-patients, including over 200 infants and children.
“We hope the authorities will carefully reconsider their decision, so that we can continue to safeguard the health and lives of the people,” the hospital wrote in a public letter…
More and more people are publicly questioning the logic of pushing forward gas use in the nation even though different regions, particularly rural areas, have complicated situations to consider.
“It is not realistic to promote gas use in rural areas due to their complicated topography. The cost in laying pipelines, maintenance and safety controls is huge. Besides, the cost of gas is expensive for farmers,” Liu wrote.
“The rural area in the north is vast. It is not suitable to blindly and simply copy what is suitable for a city in those areas. Whether it is Hebei or Henan, these regions have their own geographical features and living habits. Making sweeping changes will only increase the cost,” he added.
???”It is the right time for China to switch to the use of natural gas for heating, but the project shouldn’t be carried out in haste,” Jia Weilie, a deputy director at the Beijing Academy of Ecocivilization, told the Global Times…
As reported, the price of LNG (Liquid Natural Gas) has risen to a record high of 9,400 yuan per ton, a 100 percent increase since September…
As China enters the brutally cold winter season, there is already an estimated shortage of 10.5 billion cubic meters of natural gas, according to an analysis quoted by Securities Times, pushing up the prices…
But the annual increase in gas resources will be utterly unable to provide the 30 billion cubic-meters increase in China’s gas consumption every year.
Meanwhile, imported LNG and pipeline gas is limited by factors such as pipeline capacity and gas prices. At present, authorities are not optimistic about any large-scale increase in other gas resources.
In 2015, China had only 25 underground gas reserves, accounting for a mere 3 percent of the country’s gas consumption, much lower than 17.4 percent in the US and 17 percent in Russia.
https://sputniknews.com/asia/201712071059770225-north-china-coal-ban-leaves-residents-cold/
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Of the government, by the government, for the government…
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And the conga line of politicians.
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7 Dec: WhatsOnWeibo: “Dreaming of Warmth” – China’s Anti-Coal Measures Leave Villagers out in the Cold
While coal heating is being banned, many villagers are left in the cold as they have no access to electric or gas heating systems.
By Manya Koetse and Miranda Barnes
Chinese authorities are on a crusade against the burning of low-quality coal in the north of China this winter. The switch from coal to natural gas in the northern regions is meant to reduce air pollution. But for those with no access to gas or electric heating, the measures mean that they are left in the cold while temperatures are dropping…
In the article, ‘Brother News’ reports about a small kindergarten and primary school in a village in Shanxi where the use of coal heating is no longer allowed this winter – the coal heating systems were already demolished last summer. But the building, that only has three classrooms, cannot be supplied with gas heating. The use of electric heating is also impossible, as it trips off the electricity.
In order to stay warm, the school can only burn wood alcohol (methyl alcohol) as a last resort. “But that costs us about 400 to 600 dollars a day [3000-4000 yuan],” one of the kindergarten teachers said.
“I long for blue skies and smog-free air, but if it means that so many people have to freeze out there, I don’t want it.”…
In an “urgent notice” the environment ministry said that “villages that have not converted to gas may still use coal for heating, or other substitute fuels,” as reported by Financial Times…
Many people on Weibo are skeptical about the notice. “What about the coal furnaces that have already been taken away,” one person asks on Weibo: “Will they be brought back? (..) And what about the people who have already been freezing cold for a month, how can they be compensated?”
Other people also wonder about all the coal heating systems that have already been removed from homes and buildings, asking if people should now install new ones to keep themselves warm this winter.
There are more people on Weibo who criticize the anti-coal measures, comparing it to measures taken by the Chinese regime from 1958 to 1962. One netizen from Shanxi writes: “Isn’t this just like the people’s communes during the Great Leap Forward? In those days the pots and pans of people were smashed, and they were told to have their meals in the communes where they went hungry. Now you no longer allow farmers to have their coal furnaces and tell them to use gas while the installations are not properly set up, letting them freeze. It’s the same thing, it’s just a different era.”
There are also those who just care about the temperature in their room: “I have been without heating for five days. It 10 degrees [celsium] in my house. I’m slowly starting to freeze out here.”
For many, the urgent notice has not brought the warmth back yet. “The only way to keep myself warm is by trembling,” one netizen writes.
https://www.whatsonweibo.com/dreaming-warmth-chinas-anti-coal-measures-leave-people-cold/
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It can only cool by evaporation. That has to mean increasing salinity, maybe insignificant but if this coral is so sensitive????? All that energy expended has to end up as heat. Have the engineers planning this actually had a thought. Perhaps it’s being designed by beaurocrats.
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Perhaps it’s not even being designed.
When it is government money you just purchase whatever the next thought bubble comes up with – regardless of its practicality.
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O/T An example of what blog operators have to put up with
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/12/07/case-closed-malicious-wuwt-troll-sees-police-show-up-at-his-door/
And the link to a previous Canadian case
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So let me get this straight… To protect the reef from natural changes that it has survived for millions of years, we are going to remove the natural gradient of temperatures by sucking cooler water from where the inhabitants are used to it and spreading it at the surface where it will be quickly warmed.
I’m confused… aren’t we trying to STOP the oceans warming? How does exchanging cold water down deep for warm water at the top where the cold water can be warmed and sent back down accomplish this?
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I think it’s what you call a Baldrick cunning plan .
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Some of these researchers sure come up with some cunning stunts.
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Magicians wands not to be confused with policemen’s batons.
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OT..
Did you know that, according to UAH for Australia
November 2017 was the 29th warmest November in 39 years.
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What the heck? Look on the bright side. Everyone needs a fan or two, even the Great Barrier Reef apparently will appreciate some appreciators. So why not give them to it and be done with it. It’s only money after all.
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With the toll of homes destroyed here in california now in the multiple hundreds, all needing to be rebuilt along with the lives those homes represent, not to mention horses burned to death and fire still raging through dry chaparral like I’ve never seen it before, I can’t stop wondering how much benefit the money wasted on climate change could do to help clean up this mess and pay for the monumental firefighting effort.
And you in Australia have suffered even worse fires. All for the sake of climate change.
And no amount of money can pay for the loss of personal belongings or I’d demand some compensation for that too. Maybe I should anyway.
And then I think of all that CO2 the fires have dumped into the atmosphere that makes a joke of carbon footprints carbon sequestration and the biggest jokes of all, Al Gore and the IPCC, I want to slug every last climate change pusher on this earth. And I can’t do it.
If there was any justice the UN headquarters in New York City would fall into the East River some dark night and that would be that. But nothing stays around longer than a bad idea.
The reef must have fans to placate the nuts who can’t think straight.
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I’ve been wondering how you are Roy? It’s a nasty business for you.
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Annie, thank you for thinking of me.
We’ve been spared all but a little smoke. The fire has stayed safely away from us. But the damage has been worse than I’ve ever seen before.
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Surely an environmental impact study will be required under both Cwth and State legislation?
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