JoNova
A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).
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Just turned and here is Weekend Unthreaded but no other comments yet!
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All good things come to those who wait.
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I meant ‘turned on’ above.
Just an update on the saga re. my husband’s Harvest Festival sermon. Last week he received a really unpleasant, rude letter about it. Briefly, the whinge (a mild term for what was actually written) questioned his ‘politicising’ by talking about AGW, etc. not in the PC way. It seems that the pope and trendy, lefty bishops and clergy are permitted to politicise about this but not those who would like to indicate, for the common good, that they might have been misled and maybe it would be worth their investigating matters for themselves! There’s a lot more that could be said but what has happened has shown the evil, slimy tentacles of this whole business.
I had a clergy wife friend who once, when her husband was up against it quite unjustifiably, said “Huh, Christians, I’m going to be a Buddhist!”. Fortunately I know many great Christians but there are certainly ferals in some congregations!
221
In Christianity, there is a scripture that basically says those who who are in an elevated position to teach will recieve a harsher judgement if they mess it up. Now considet the size of the hammer Gid will drop on preachers/priests who deliberately mislead congregations over matters of truth, predominately of matters of faith, but deliberately teaching a falsehood in matters honesty……. blimey…..*wince*
Found it….
“Not many of you should be teachers my brothers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment”
( James 3:1)
100
Fat fingers….sorry…should read
“..size of the hammer God will…”
30
From yonder CTH
I agree! Military officers are educated\smart; enlisted have skill\savvy driven in to them by training, including ‘Yes Sir’! —P45, AG Sessions, & Gen Mattis have both! We the people need potty training and parental love, not modern EDUCATION\smartass! Please careful\helpful training of whatever the kid loves to do! Most want to be like Mommy; maybe Daddy as he has same\different junk! 🙂
All the best!-will-
50
This is past political correctness. They have created a cult. Global Warming, Climate Change, Scientology, Moonies and a whole host of new religions have much the same pattern and are designed to attract the same sort of people. Pseudo science was clearly the intent of self proclaimed Nuclear Physicist L. Ron Hubbard, after he failed at being a communist leader. The Rev Jim Jones also failed at communism but used apocalyptic fears to gather his band in Guyana. These are not benign religions and prey on the susceptible.
Why the Pope has been sucked into a fake druidic religion is a puzzle in itself. The common thread is left leaning even communist love of a dictatorship, of certainty. In the US currently, I have read 50% of the 18-25 year olds, the Millenials, would rather live in a Socialist society. Perhaps it relieves them of the need to compete.
There is something reassuring in being told what to do. The first is to hand over all your money. Buy windmills for others.
180
Well, I originally described that very rude cover-the-ears reaction during the sermon as cultic. The letter was from a close companion of the first person and the content is very much redolent of her. Trying to tell the truth is a dangerous business with people like that around!
120
We need to give a robust response to the leftist “seagulls”, or our children will see us capitulating in front of them, which dooms our children to slavery as our children will see it as ” normal”.
Our kidss need to be taught how evil the Left truly is…..
70
They don’t have much faith in the works of the creator in whom they profess belief if they are afraid humans can damage the planet.
100
It has been said, 400 years ago.
I have of late—but wherefore I know not—lost all my mirth..this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory; this most excellent canopy, the air—look you, this brave o’erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire—why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapors.
What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god! The beauty of the world. The paragon of animals. And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me.
Man is the problem.
50
Listen to it sung in ‘Hair’
00
No!
Man\earthlings may possibly be viable; (after P45), or simply another expected failure in GODS most careful learning! 🙂
30
Omnipotent creation ist easy! OTOH Learning of wad you yust created? Dis takes exceptional skill and learning; Even from GOD! 🙂
All the best!-will-
20
Some are the problem but not all TdeF.
Neither of the chief persons concerned has actually had the grace just to come up and ask my husband, or me, ‘why do you think this then?’ and have a sensible grown-up discussion. One attacks and screams rudely and the other put her signature to that dreadful letter. They also wince at the mention of fuel-reduction burns. As far as I can tell they think the Leadbeatters Possum is more important than the lives of their fellow human beings in the area; this is despite the appalling toll in lives in 2009. As it happens, there are areas set aside for the possums but not too well known.
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Hi Annie,
When even such an important leader as the Pope “believes” in Man Made Global Warming™ you are in a vulnerable spot when someone close to you tries to speak a truth other than the official one.
According to the Bible, people have spent the last 4,000 years trying to work out how we can get along with our neighbours.
We haven’t quite got there yet but we gotta keep trying.
KK
30
What defeatist nonsense! Currently Man is Gods experiment in pushing the boundaries of this physical\measurable IS!
Such cannot fail; as such remains observation;for ‘learning’, of this experiment! Next may be virus, roaches, raptor, or canis lupus!! None will have the vile audacity\arrogance to ‘believe’ they understand the wonder of this GOD’S physical! Snoozing is so much needed.
All the best!-will-
10
@ James
What?
Fundamental Christian theology is that we have damaged the whole of creation by the first sin.
There is no good gift of God that has not been abused and damaged. Churches are stained with offences against innocence, the gift of sex has been perverted and abused, charity has been abused to further the avarice of a few, the Bible was used to endorse slavery, stewardship of the environment has been perverted into the Greens’ secular religion, and the list goes on and on.
It’s wrong to assert that Greens profess belief in a Creator. I admit I’ve never seen a correlation of political party and religious faith, so what follows is anecdote, not data, but among those Greens I know personally, there’s an abundance of New Age Spirituality, woo-woo nonsense, and healing power of crystals, but very little confession of the existence of a creator. So your implication that they are being hypocritical is inaccurate.
Yet even worse than that is the implication that we have a get out of jail free card from God for the consequences of our actions on the environment. That’s bad science and bad theology alike.
40
Take heart, Annie, they are the truly gullible. By writing, they are doing more to politicize the polemic themselves. Besides, the FCCC and its IPCC politicized it 25 years ago.
They could be gently reminded of Exodus 20:3 and helped with the reference if they don’t understand. Or they could be left alone.
40
Great cartoon Sophocles 🙂
My OH did say something about preferring to worship the Creator rather than the creation. One is otherwise in thrall to false gods (like ‘gaia’) and the machinations of LTPD rule.
LTPD….Little Tin Pot Dictator. 🙁
20
Annie this country has been shaped by fire for a lot longer than European occupation so if fire was to kill all the possums there wouldn’t be any now.
20
Yes. It really says something.
The only improvement to the cartoon would be to have 10 of the machines lined up with queues at each machine.
I think that would be more representative of current reality.
KK
20
You gave me my first wry smile today KK!
10
Cattle do not ‘compete’. Young Earthlings must compete if not ‘brainwashed’ by modern “EDUCATION”. Youngster complains, ‘brother rides bicycle’! Help me mommy\daddy! She becomes more skillful than brother! Then brother learns how to fix family car! 🙂
All the best!-will-
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But Will, my cattle and sheep readily butt each other out of the way to get at food! 😉
20
Just being neighborly! Even pigs at the sty are more polite than banksters and politicians! OTOH here in Arkansas we have gangs of wild hogs (razorback) that will eat you. Do unto others “before” they do unto you! 🙂
20
🙂 My chooks can be a bit brutal to each other!
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Annie Apr30,18:17:59 pm
Killing off all male\female runts is not competition; but only ‘natural selection’\survival of ‘survivors’! 🙂
All the best!-will-
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There is no reason to allow any ‘runt’, incompetent, wealthy, ‘Bankster\politician” to survive and breed! 🙂
00
They are egg-layers Will and not supposed to include runts! 🙂
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Annie May02,18:14:37 pm
Perhaps Mommy refuses to sit and provide warmth for runts! How about big hansom guy? Wants ta get jumped again ‘really good’? 🙂
00
Annie,
I suppose I could quote scripture about being blessed when persecuted in His name, etc. But It seems more appropriate to tell you a little experience I had way back in the late 1970s. I had seen it starting way back then and in a discussion one Sunday after service I told the priest at our local Episcopal Church that in the future Christians would be persecuted. He got mad and ordered me out of his office.
He would have none of it. Yet here we are in 2018 with Christians not exactly having an easy time if they don’t stay silent. Nice religion to practice but believe it and see what happens. I it’s a whole different thing to actually believe it. And if you have the sense to question what the likes of Jerry Brown has to say…
I suppose I should rejoice that they aren’t keeping lions around.
40
Thanks Roy. I too wondered when ‘they’ would get around to persecuting us for daring to be Christians, especially non-lefty ones. I’m very strongly getting the message that if one isn’t a bleeding-heart ‘liberal’ (read actually highly illiberal) and a complete SJW/Snowflake then one is definitely ‘persona non grata’ in these days.
That was not a pleasant experience for you all those years ago. The church is under attack from within and without.
40
Always has been under attack Annie, and the strong just get stronger and the weak fall by the wayside (despite the bravado).
10
I have remembered this quote since I first read it. I guess my mind is getting a little slow because I should have remembered it when I first read your comment. But better late than never…right?
It’s reported to have been said when the French king decided to persecute Christians.
You can find it stated several different ways but they all say the hammers are worn our and the anvil is still here.
00
I have a tendency to ask people for proof about their pet things…and sometimes it ticks them off no end, but Jesus always asked questions, and often ended the argument right there, unless they want to resort to violence.
Generally once they realize I’ve set my jaw and they cant provide facts, it usually cauterizes the situation.
I can find no error as a Christian standing firm in my beliefs, but being a doormat for a bunch of poorly behaved heathen seagulls isn’t in the job description though……
40
Interesting analysis of the $500million just gifted to Universities for study of the Great Barrier reef. Not a mention of Climate Change or Global Warming. One puzzle though was the $100Million to deal with the Crown of Thorns starfish. The news from Tahiti is that as the researchers have learned from the Islanders, the Crown of Thorns Starfish is a legend, a plague and in even a short time scale very good for the reef which replenishes and flourishes while the coral is turned into white sand for the beaches, which are otherwise black volcanic. Like so many things just discovered and immediately decried as a (man made) disaster, it turns out to be part of a natural cycle which maintains and refreshes the reef.
There was a (JCU?) project to use autonomous underwater robots which swam around recognizing Starfish (most of the time) and injecting them with poison.
Maybe humans could learn from the Great Barrier reef instead of trying to fix it when natural cycles occur? The presumption that ecologists with no historical records are all wise, all knowing is just baloney. As we have seen with Greenpeace, many do not know any basic chemistry. They believe carbon, carbon dioxide are pollution. They do not believe all life of earth is ultimately made from Carbon Dioxide and water and a few metals. It’s just too outrageous for their medieval minds, the work of Big Coal or Big Oil without recognizing that coal and oil are just plant matter too.
151
Not JCU, the QUT.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-31/cotsbot-hope-new-robot-will-stop-crown-of-thorns-starfish/6738320
I am not so sanguine about the COT. I don’t believe the reef ever recovered from the first and most serious invasion.
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Just announced another $500Mil to save the Reef from deadly global warming
10
🙁
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I was in the gym and saw that on the news….it was like watching Orwellspeak in action…
More money to “study the effects and community consultation”….aka…guilding the lily….
Its so brazen…and full of it….
10
In the ABC article linked above [quite old but there doesn’t seem to be anything new on this drone] speaks of a one shot poison. That may be outdated. I recall that they have found household vinegar works well so did a search.
This was dated 2017:
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/vinegar-could-be-key-in-fight-against-crownofthorns-starfish-20170427-gvtd9x.html
Again, crickets since.
20
The crown of thorns starfish is native to this planet, its only source of food is coral, so humans intervened to wipe them out. Wonder what our grandchildren will make of all this.
50
They will call it racism?
10
My guess is there will be unintended negative consequences that result from culling those star fish in the long run. There always are when man starts fooling around to change the operation of natural cycles or events that are not fully understood.
30
The material injected by divers to kill crown of thorns starfish is based on animal bile.
It appears to be biodegradable, as are the bodies of dead starfish.
20
Hmm. I wonder if that would work with crickets? There’s not a coral nor a crown of thorns to be found on or in my lawn anywhere … but the crickets! 🙂
They’re bigger than cockies. I’ve not seen them this large before.
Glyphosate has no effect. Can’t get DDT, thought of making some but haven’t … yet …
It’s the principle of the thing: it’s my lawn not theirs.
20
Try this: Tip a bag of bran into a large plastic rubbish bag, along with a fair bit of Malathion. Give it a good shake then put aside for 24 hours. Give it a few more shakes, then spread this “chook food” around close to your house. I even opened up my tiles on my roof and threw handfuls into my roof space – not sure what my neighbours thought I was doing. Within a short time all my Indian crickets were gone. Haven’t tried this on mole crickets though.
10
But will it work on Greenies?
00
That method is a bit of a worry with free-ranging chooks though. We have the most enormous cricket ‘cases’ around this year…can’t recall seeing them like that before. A gruesome sight!
00
That was my first thought [well not really, I was thinking of the Indian minah] but wouldn’t the chooks control the crickets? Given time not even nutgrass can survive them.
00
In theory but it’s a large area for 5 chooks! They have done pretty well with wasps.
00
Agree Annie, this method shouldn’t be used in your case. I live in suburbia so it’s ok. Also the local ibis seem to do a good job of finding the mole crickets.
10
Hanrahan, please be a little more specific. When was that “first” invasion?
20
You are alluding that these attacks have been happening over the ages. I don’t subscribe to that theory. I believe the outbreaks are new and quite possibly a result of man. Dr Robert Endean thought harvesting conch shells may have allowed them to multiply, he also spoke of the painted shrimp. Sadly his work appears to have died with him and these thoughts remain just that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Endean
I saw the GBR in its full splendour when young. None of those pontificating and saying that it has recovered can say that. If they don’t know what it was like once, how can they say it has recovered? If they had seen it they would be more careful what they said.
13
Hanrahan,
No I’m not alluding to the “attacks that have been happening over ages” – although although there is some evidence that they have been. Rather, I’m making reference to the first scientific reference that says:
“The first widely documented outbreak population of COTS on the GBR was at Green Island in 1962”
And, that there is a 17 year cycle apparent in the infestations that may be related to a number of possible causes, none of which have yet, as far as I can find, been identified conclusively as the cause.
“In the central GBR, COTS outbreaks appear to follow major flooding events, but despite many years of observations, no primary outbreak has ever been unequivocally identified in the central and northern GBR. Here we locate a primary outbreak of COTS on the southern GBR which is not correlated with flooding. Instead it appears to have been the result of a combination of life history traits of COTS and prevailing oceanographic conditions. The hydrodynamic setting implies that the outbreak could disperse larvae to other reefs in the region.”
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jmb/2015/809624/#B2
The long and the short of it is that after 50 years of research they still don’t know.
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I should recommend a careful reading of the (somewhat long) last paragraph under: 4. Discussion, in the above reference.
10
The report is still loading with my new wondrous NBN, but this I agree with and nothing I’ve said suggests otherwise.
My uncle started running tourists to the GBR as soon as the Navy gave back his launch after the war. He isn’t around to ask now but he never spoke of the COT.
00
The “experts” only recently discovered the mass coral sporing.
A reef fisherman, who left school at 11 years of age, told me all about it when I complained about the acres of brown muck in drifts all over the place. It was dreadful for staining the topsides of my yacht. That was in 1972.
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Hasbeen, I’m no expert but I could have told you that at least 40 years ago.
10
You answered your own question. I AM an old phart.
10
Crown of thorn starfish.
Coral Bleaching.
Coral Spawning.
Gravity.
None of them existed before discovery
100
Sorry H, accidental red thumb while reading, just rested hand without noticing where!
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Its a strange world Annie but someone red thumbed you for apologising for red thumbing me.
COME ON OUT WHOEVER YOU ARE!
10
Bit like all those quiz show contestants that say they cant know something because it was “before their time”
10
Crown-of-Thorns starfish appear to be immune to all factors causing the GBR to die, like ….
CO2, coral-killing global warmed water, more acidic water, nutrient-run-off from farms, coal-mines.
“Dr Wachenfeld said tackling other stressors on corals, including from nutrient run-off from farms and the latest big outbreak of crown-of-thorns starfish, were important local efforts to help corals rebound.”
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/great-barrier-reef-in-deep-trouble-as-climate-other-threats-mount-official-20180204-h0ta4z.html
It seems a mystery how crown-of-thorns can survive & thrive in an environment when everything else is supposedly dead.
50
I think nutrient runoff is overstated. Environmentalists are always happy to point their fingers at farmers
The COT has a larval stage where it is free floating, forming part of the plankton. If/when they find out why it is multiplying to plague proportions now the answer will likely centre around less predation in this early stage. Farm runoff doesn’t promote adult animals although it may feed the larvae. I swam on the Ribbon Reefs, north of Cooktown and far from any agriculture and the COT had virtually destroyed them. I could not find any hard coral
20
Hanrahan,
I have previously asked if anyone has ever seen water quality figures for the Coral Sea and relevant coastal waters which show ANY trace of nutrients.
My semi-educated guess is that any such evidence might be in ppbillion or even pptrillion.
Does anyone have any data which shows any effect of these nutrients on water quality?
Also notice that Frydenburg was today rabbitting on about reef damage by a recent cyclone.
What about the several dozen severe cyclones since the joint was firs settled by whites and the few jundreds of thousand of severe cyclones the reef has experienced in the past 500,000 years. Don’t they count?
Still if he really does believe that renewable energy is cheaper than energy from coal, then he is sufficiently imbecilic to believe anything.
120
Yes, Josh Frydenberg’s escalating stupidity is a continuing disappointment.
120
Actually the owners of wind farms and large solar installations think of Frydenberg as a ….well I risk being moderated but think of a large bull that leaves mounds of gold coins in the paddock. Something like that except the bull knows what he is doing.
10
Mate, I read this earlier but let it go through to the keeper, hoping someone on a higher pay grade than I could help. I am an observer, not a student/researcher.
My penny’s worth [not paid enough to give two bob’s worth] is that the sons/daughters of cane farmers [by far the most common farmers on the tropical coast] like all family farmers are going to ag. colleges and learning how NOT to waste their fertiliser. Simply educating farmers would be the most cost effective way to reduce nutrient run off. On another forum there was a young fellow farming with his father on the Liverpool Plains [You may have heard of Windsor and Joyce] and he would document how they farmed with no till practices, planting through stubble and the use of glyphosate for weed control [no plowing, remember?] being key elements.
I think our farming is in good hands.
That said I hope the graziers are getting up to speed. I used to drive to Charters Towers regularly and there was one property near the Burdekin which was so eroded that grass would be a foot high beside the road but the cattle were picking on shoots on the other side of the fence. The runoff from overgrazed property not only carried valuable topsoil but fresh cattle dung which is high in nitrogen which feeds the flora which feeds larval COT. As a boy [OK that again] there were deep holes in the lower Burdekin where kids could swim and catch barra. It is now bluddy big beach with the old rail and road bridges under sand. All that was once the valuable resource of a poor grazier.
CAUTION I stress that I am merely an observer, these opinions are for amusement only.
20
“It seems a mystery how crown-of-thorns can survive & thrive in an environment when everything else is supposedly dead.”
It seems that pollution and nutrient run-off helps the crown-of-thorns starfish thrive!
Here is a 97% science update:
Australia pledges half a billion to restore Great Barrier Reef
“It is also under threat from the coral-eating crown-of-thorns starfish, which has proliferated due to pollution and agricultural runoff.”
https://phys.org/news/2018-04-australia-pledges-billion-great-barrier.html
“Climate change is the number one threat to the Great Barrier Reef and only concerted action to cut pollution will fully protect it.”
Sadly no evidence of “climate change” is offered as evidence.
40
How did it ever come to be thought that the Crown of Thorns was an invasive species?
52
I guess that if you don’t believe cancer to be invasive you can say the COT isn’t either. Technically you may be right in both cases but neither are conducive to good health.
11
Hanarahan, that’s a bit like using the tobacco argument against catastrophic man-made global warming sceptics.
It sounds good but doesn’t meet the bar of rational argument.
50
Aren’t they a native to the Indo Pacific and if reports of them dating back to the early 19th century are true they have been here a long time .
30
Nobody, and certainly not I, suggests otherwise. For most of that time it was just part of the biodiversity, a few animals struggling to propagate the specie.
30
I suppose that there’s one good thing about this ‘protect the GBR at all costs’ meme.
There’s almost zero chance that any offshore wind turbines will be approved along the length of the GBR, and if they are, that would be hypocrisy writ large, eh!
Tony.
130
Digging up the Reef for wind turbines would be acceptable by green logic .
101
Well that’s probably sensible given the stupidity of even suggesting wind turbines should be built in a cyclone prone locality.
80
With cyclones presenting dangers to the reef, I suggest we relocate the reef.
100
Bobl,
We had a few cyclones in Fiji while I was there, and I was a little puzzled when I saw this appear on the horizon. I haven’t heard whether or not any have been wrecked by too much wind yet.
00
Oops, link doesn’t work. Perhaps this will. Second photo, third row.
A small wind farm near Sigatoka, Fiji.
00
Professor Peter Ridd should get half of that sum to show that the Reef is in good shape and does not need saving.
80
Frydenberg says “It will also help develop coral that is more resistant to high temperatures and light stress”
Another man made disaster in the making. The genetic diversity and adaption is quite capable of reef regeneration. Didn’t Jo post some info on this last week? http://joannenova.com.au/2018/04/corals-already-have-the-genes-to-survive-another-250-years-of-climate-change/
This needs to be passed to Frydenberg – leave it alone!!
30
And there is even talk of genetic engineering to develop corals that are more climate resistant. Is this a good idea?
Not too sure myself. Let nature work it out.
GeoffW
100
Its an unnecessary financial impost on the Australian taxpayer, CO2 doesn’t cause global warming so there is no need to engineer corals.
They could do a 3D printout and extend the GBR further south.
100
What is the temperature range along the full length of the GBR? Do corals exist in equatorial regions? this is just self serving, grant snatching, cr&p
20
Does anyone know why NSW is such a big importer of electricity? When I looked this morning they were generating 1.2 GW less than demand, and this shortage has been true for a few weeks now. The market would be a mess without Qld, which is good for us, assuming we make a profit on the sale to Mexicans.
80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzogTxwnDjQ
00
NSW will be importing more when they close Liddell!
50
No problem, AGL are going to build a gas fired generator.
30
Having destabilised the grid by shutting Lidell and adding intermittent renewables, AGL will now ride to the rescue by providing the inevitable super expensive on demand power that this will trigger.
I remember a process oriented course I did that said any process that requires heroes to arrive and save the day on a regular basis is totally dysfunctional.
10
For the last two or three weeks, NSW has had four and sometimes five Units off line.
Most of the Plants in NSW have large Units, so having four of them off line is a big hit. They have coped well, really, and I might suspect those Units are off line for long term maintenance, more easily done during the benign Months in the lead up to Winter increase in consumption when they will be needed most, and also off line for the rotational implementation of Upgrades, as in the case of Bayswater and Vales point.
The Units off line are:
Bayswater – 660MW
Eraring – 2 X 720MW, so 1440MW total
Vales Point – 660MW
So, that totals up to 2760MW off line, hence the Major Interconnector with Queensland is delivering almost at its maximum for most of each day, especially during the evening Peak at 6PM.
Luckily, all the work at Liddell has been finished, and all four of their Units have been running quite well these last four weeks or so.
Tony.
260
Every liddell bit helps.
lol
230
he is here all week folks, please come back if you like his work!!
20
My god I love coal.
150
Thanks Tony. I hoped you would read my post. I assumed it would be something like that.
50
Man one would think that such shutdowns would be coordinated within the plant and between stations to ensure adequate output? I know that do that here in the States. The of course there are “peaking stations” to cover the unexpected.
00
The “powers that be” in the power industry do not have “co-ordination” in their lexicon.
Nor do they have brain cells in there cranial cavity.
30
If anyone noticed: Alpha Ventus had a covering/shroud/bonnet work loose and fell into the sea approx 9 years after install. Now the Germans are worried. In reality, they should be really worried 9 years ago. At a cost of $250million Euros, it has ‘out performed’ expectations by generating 240Gwh over 9 years. Which means that since they are generating only 26 Gwh a year they would have to pay approximate 20 cents per kWh to pay back costs let alone interest which at 4% would put break even costs at 74 eurocents a kWh for costs plus interest.
No worries about baseload, business’s going broke etc…. FREE energy.
40
Ya gotta luv these new units “Alpha Ventus can power 42,495 homes.” according to their PR. At 26GW/Y that would be closer to 42 only.
http://www.4coffshore.com/windfarms/alpha-ventus-germany-de01.html
10
A summary of AGL’s Liddell Power Station replacement plans:
• in 2022 shut down Liddell PS with a nameplate of 2,000MW
• build a new 252-megawatt gas-fired plant near Newcastle consisting of fourteen X 18MW turbines
• construction to be completed at the end of 2022 at $400million cost (will it come on line before Liddell is shut down???)
• commence a $200 million, 100MW upgrade of Bayswater PS (to come on line when???)
In addition to:
• 210MW of new gas-fired generation in far off South Australia
• 653MW of new erratic wind farms in Queensland and NSW (no timeframe is given for when any of that will happen)
• an agreement to purchase capacity from the Sunraysia solar project near Balranald NSW
The entire Sunraysia solar PV project will only be 200MW AC (with DC to AC losses covered) plus “the possibility of batteries at a later stage”. AGL signed on to source up to 800,000 MWh of renewable energy per annum for 15 years from Sunraysia’s owner Maoneng, only some of which will be from the Sunraysia Solar Farm. Maoneng only does PV solar so that 800,000 MWh is strictly solar power, none of which has battery backup yet. UNSW also signed a PPA to take 124,000MWh per year of Sunraysia’s power for 15 years to achieve its own “carbon neutrality”.
Sunraysia will cover approximately 1,000 hectares (2,450 acres) with PV panels (doesn’t disclose how many). It will cost around $275m and “generate 530,000MWh annually”. The resident power experts here can assess that claim and tear it apart as necessary.
http://sunraysiasolarfarm.com.au/news/
According to Vesey, AGL will continue to “assess the potential” to develop a further 500MW of gas-fired generation capacity as part of Stage 2 of the plan, but is yet to commit to anything further to replace lost generation if Liddell closes.
Compared to now, as at 2022 by my calculation that still leaves NSW short of a commitment from AGL for 1,648MW of reliable power generation (to offset Liddell at full capacity), and this with population growth surging all the time.
In addition to the customary 1,000MW of coal power that NSW frequently sucks out of QLD on a normal day, that means we will be about 2.5GW short of cheap baseload generating capacity without having to leech off other states to meet our regular needs.
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Queensland’s prevailing wind is a southeaster, ie parallel to the coast. The north of the state desperately needs any new generation but I don’t know how you can put offshore windmills in the GBR Marine Park when you can’t dredge a port and they will be disappointing onshore.
See the winds here:
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-215.49,-26.76,1453
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Cyclones v. offshore turbines – not a problem? Disappointing anywhere.
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In a face off between the two we already know who wins…
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Beowolf:
14 by 18MW gas units? Sounds like Open Cycle types. Expensive to run, higher emissions, will work with diesel.
Hardly anything listed is a full time generator.
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I can understand why companies like AGL are doing it – it’s called profit. Nothing wrong with that; they are just doing what any good business would do given the commercial guidelines as set by governments. Companies are not interested nor are they required to look after the best interests of the nation as a whole. That’s the governments job, which in turn is the voters problem for electing said government. Too bad most voters will still be a sleep at the next federal election to make a difference. Our only other hope is for Turnbull to be replaced by someone with the vision and the courage to scrap all renewables incentives, similar to what Abbott did when he promised to scrap the coal tax. A new leader should also apply tax incentives for the building of new coal fired power stations so we can play catch-up with the rest of the world in building more of them. Of course the likelihood of that happening is about the same as someone going to the moon for a holiday next weekend.
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Enron was only out for a profit too.
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The point is profit in and of itself is neither right or wrong. It’s how it’s gained and how it’s used. AGL is doing nothing illegal in maximising its profits under the law, both local and international. Enron on the other hand did commit fraud. Many executives went to prison. If anyone wants to argue AGL is doing something illegal then they better report their evidence to some law enforcement agency. If anyone believes AGL is doing something bad for the nation then they should vote for someone who will scrap the renewables incentives to stop companies like AGL from taking advantage of the situation to maximise their profits for their shareholders under the current bias for renewables and instead allow them to maximise their profits under a different environment, such as coal or even nuclear.
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They are/were both doing the same thing: Restricting supply to boost price/profits. I don’t care that our law permits this, it stinks.
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So how is one to change that attitude of restricting electricity supply to boost profits? Remove renewables incentives and introduce incentives for coal/nuclear thereby restricting the supply of renewables. Restriction of supply in and of itself is not the issue. The issue is which supply to restrict and which to promote. That requires a significant change in voter awareness of the situation, and consequently voting behaviour. Complaing about the restriction itself as long as it’s legal is pointless. We can complain till the cows come home and all that AGL and others will do is ignore us, backed up by their shareholders who happen to be most Australians who have super. It’s sad to see how voters have all the power they need to change things but ignore to use it.
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Don’t forget it’s the government not AGL that’s restricting supply through disincentives for coal power, and redirecting incentives to promote renewables. If it was the other way around AGL would just as happily upgrade/build coal fired power stations.
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Profit which benefits both sides of transaction are good. Profits that result from manipulation and distortion of a market or system are not.
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My concern is that if the power companies continue to play along with the reduction of generating capacity, eventually the public will wake up to whats going and realize there is a form of collusion for degrading the grid. when that happens, the public may start targetting the power companies themselves.
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As usual the real cause of the problem is ignored. Voters need to look in the mirror instead of pushing everything into memory holes. People should start questioning what they are being taught at schools and told by the MSM. Of course to do so places one in direct opposition of the prime goal to remove people’s freedoms to think and know the truth. When we are threatened to believe that 2+2=5 most eventually will actually believe it.
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Gotta say that I pretty much 100% agree and also think that is 100% (OK lets be optimistic 99%) not going to happen.
You see what I see when you walk and drive around. Most people are so dumb/distracted/indoctrinated that they are incapable of independent thought and critical thinking. I used to think I was harsh but everything I see and read in mainstream life just reinforces my thoughts.
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In other words we get the government we deserve, as I’ve always said. Critical thinking is discourages in the schools and in the workplace. I know from personal experience many times. There may be some places where it’s encouraged but they would be very rare. The irony of it all is I found the worst place of all was CSIRO. I used to think science and critical thinking go hand in hand. In fact today it’s the exact opposite in most scientific institutions.
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My feelings too yarpos. I very much dislike the fact that I have been forced to the same conclusion but cannot ignore what I see, hear and read.
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For the Mod Squad:
THE WEEK IN PICTURES: YES, WE KANYE EDITION http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/04/the-week-in-pictures-yes-we-kanye-edition.php
My pick the ‘hideous tan line’ joke for the scientific value.
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The tan line joke had more science in it than IPCC has so far produced.
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This weekend there is very little wind in SA or Vic. Across the entire AEMO region wind generation is currently only 300 MW, down from 1100 MW overnight. Total demand is about 19,000 MW. But under these benign conditions, why does AEMO keep issuing directions to participants in the SA market?
Market Notice 62618
AEMO ELECTRICITY MARKET NOTICE.
Refer to AEMO Electricity Market Notice 62451, 62452, 62456, 62461 and 62585.
In accordance with section 116 of the National Electricity Law AEMO has issued a direction to a participant in the South Australia region.
The direction was necessary to maintain the power system in a secure operating state.
The direction was issued at 1000 hrs 29/04/2018, with effect from 1300 hrs 30/04/2018. The direction is expected to stay in place until 1300 hrs 01/05/2018.
Refer to AEMO Electricity Market Notice 62452 and 62614.
In accordance with section 116 of the National Electricity Law AEMO has issued a direction to a participant in the South Australia region.
The direction was necessary to maintain the power system in a secure operating state.
The direction was issued at 1000 hrs 29/04/2018. The direction is expected to stay in place until 1300 hrs 01/05/2018.
Does anyone know whether the details of the directions are confidential or available for public viewing? Who is the participant? Without the direction, what is the threat to secure operations?
Yesterday rooftop solar in SA dropped AEMO demand down to 740 MW at mid day, well below the night time minimum of 1080 MW, but then something has to fire up to meet the Sunday evening peak demand of 1660 MW with forecast prices up to $13,000/MWhr. Current (3pm) SA demand is 900 MW with 340 MW supplied from Vic, so a big ramp up of 700 MW is required in the next 4 hours as the sun goes down.
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I think the directions enables a means of compensation for dispatchable plant to be available but not producing much.The process operates outside the normal dispatch and running reserve.
Audrey Zibelman hinted at this process in her video nd the need for a better method of recognising dispatchable capacity.
The weekend may have been a difficult period to forecast because there are fronts coming across but they typically drifted south as they approached SW.
Yesterday or Friday there was a price spike to $5000/MWh yet demand was only 1500MW. With Basslink still out the Victorian and SA grids are not as easy to adjust for intermittency.
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Hi Jo
I see in the media last week that we are in the midst of a recycling crisis. The Chinese will (rightly) no longer accept our 50% contaminated material so our local governments are now stuck with all this waste they don’t know what to do with. Too expensive for them to sort down to the new 30% Chinese requirement and way toooooo politically incorrect to dump in landfill, so the only option left is to ask for more taxpayer money to deal with it. Funny how when the wheels fall off a green scheme it always comes back to the taxpayers to keep the zombie going:)
How good for the environment is recycling garbage anyway? Sure we get the feel good sugar hit of thinking we are doing something by sorting our garbage into different brightly coloured bins but, is it good for the environment to double the number of garbage trucks driving around the suburbs collecting it? Is it good to then put it in bigger trucks and haul it out to the ports to be put on ships and taken all the way to China? Is it good for the environment to have it reprocessed in a country with some of the lowest environmental pollution regulations on the planet? I would say, not really.
The only thing worth recycling are metals, which I suspect is what the Chinese are really after, paper and plastics are cheaper to make new at the moment. The best place for the non-metal waste is in properly constructed landfill pits that keep it from ending up in the oceans and waterways and can be tapped for methane to generate electricity. At some time in the future when it becomes economical the pits could be dug up and the plastics reprocessed if needed in the same way we reprocess mine site tailings as new extraction technology make it viable to recover the minerals that were left in the mine waste from the olden days.
I know I’m probably out on a limb here by myself but that’s my 2 cents for what it’s worth.
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You’re not on your own Don, we discussed it in the Midweek.
One issue with recycled steel is that it is smelted in an electric arc furnace. Houston, we have a problem.
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So what did we used to do with our recycling before China ?
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Also what did China do with all those “recyclables? Buried them most likely and charged us a fee. It seems that the whole recyclable thing was a huge lie.
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Used to haul recyclables from the Nestles plant across from our terminal to a recycling place in East Palestine, OH. One of things we hauled was off spec or out of date or contaminated chocolate and strawberry milk product already packaged in plastic bottles. The recycling company we were hauling that stuff too was fined heavily when it was found they were dumping it untreated into the city sewer system.
Then Nestles changed to another company also in Eastern Ohio that used a bio system that converted that milk into a component used in fertilizer.
It can be tough for even environmentally responsible corporations to ensure that their policies are ultimately complied with by those they contract with. And for governments or companies that don’t care it’s quite easy to get around doing the environmentally responsible thing by passing the stuff off and washing their hands of it. The Mafia here in the US made a huge amount of money being the guys that got rid of environmentally bad stuff for large corporations in many different economic sectors.
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Have you seen how our car batteries were “recycled” in India? Piled up on a beach and burnt to get rid of the casings. When the toxic pall of smoke cleared they gathered up the puddled lead with bare hands and took it away for re-smelting. Why didn’t we think of that? Make a great episode on Bondi Rescue.
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Here in the US hauling old batteries is considered a Hazmat load but the trailer is not placarded nor are Hazmat documents required per an exemption the number of which must be stated on the Bill of Lading. That went into effect over a decade ago. A few years ago I was up in the Detroit area and they had me pick of a load of used batteries. Because my terminal had me scheduled to take a break and then go to Canada the next day I was told to take it our terminal in Romulus, MI and drop the trailer there for one of their local drivers to deliver it to the receiver and that is what I did. Three hours after I had gone to sleep my phone range and woke me. It was the terminal manager at Romulus asking where the Hazmat documentation was for the battery load? After shaking out the cob webs I simply asked “Did you read the Bill of Lading?” The guy then read off the exemption and said “oh”! It took me a hour to get back to sleep. And people wonder why truck drivers have to fight fatigue!
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Not smelted, just melted.
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Point taken. 🙂
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DonS:
You put most plastics in anaerobic pits and you won’t be able to recover them later as they will degrade quite readily. Such pits have been in use for 35 years or more generating natural gas (with obnoxious odours).
Most of the polyolefins ( polyethylene, polypropylene etc.) will degrade in sunlight, usually inside a year. Indeed it might be possible to use concentrated solar to degrade them.
PET (as in soft drink bottles) has been recycled for some 30 years, although mostly into unsaturated polyesters.
Newspapers could be used in power stations, except for copies of the SMH and the Guardian which are full of s❉✣t and best used to boost soil productivity.
ABC Broadcasts merely pollute the air.
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‘Newspapers could be used in power stations, except for copies of the SMH and the Guardian ….and best used to boost soil productivity.’
True Graeme No.3 [how did you get the 3 under the line?]
Now that cardboard is going into landfill, I have started soaking it and adding it to my compost heap with
leaves, which contain nitrogen, to ‘return my carbon to the soil’.
Australia is a net carbon sink and has depleted carbon reserves in its soil.
Rather than putting up windmills the Greens would more rationally be having us multch our cardboard to improve our soils for greater productivity.
The rest could be burned in fuel efficient stoves and fireplaces in winter.
Lets think of a rallying cry to do this.
How about ‘Think globally, act locally’.
Now when Abbott wanted to do this sort of thing, he was howled down.
Electricity suppliers would not make as much money, but what’s not good about that.
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Lewis p Buckingham:
I always blink when I read a “Greenie” advocating cardboard and paper as a barrier layer for building up a garden bed because it suppresses weeds. Yes, it does, but they seem completely oblivious to what happens to that layer (HINT it doesn’t need buying of offset carbon certificates).
And what happened to those devices that helped you roll up newspapers to form logs for your wood fire?
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they went the same way as actual paper newspapers
00
I’ve got a great compost heap: We throw the composting kitchen scraps under the mulberry tree. The scrub turkeys eat what they want and turn the rest over daily. Paper or cardboard would add nothing but some lawn clippings do. Im on a rocky barren hillside but the mulberry tree looks good, especially since I sunk a bore and can water it.
I’d like an old chaff cutter. They are the only thing that chops palm fronds properly and would do the same for cardboard. But they can bite: I spent a year at Gatton College and half the local farm hands were only half hands.
Off topic but scrub turkey chicks are left to fend for themselves and it took some time to figure out what these funny little birds, looking like half grown chickens were that you only got glimpses of as they scurried from cover to cover at 100 miles an hour.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29056374@N04/5299787892
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I do use cardboard under new veg beds to help to suppress weeds to start with. Of course it rots down, I wouldn’t use it if it didn’t. One problem though, the saved cardboard is left in the hay shed and the chooks love it…bits of the stuff everywhere…stup1d chooks! Fruit and veg peelings go straight into veg beds these days for the chooks to investigate, turn over and manure before I fence off to plant something.
00
Well said DonS. All true. And there is nothing wrong with dumping waste in landfill. At some point in the future it may become economically viable to dig it up and extract valuable materials for recycling but this should only be decided by free market economic forces.
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I can’t remember which SF novel it was in, but it mentioned, at one point, about Los Angeles filling up its deep valleys with garbage dumps. And then later, when the value of what had been buried was actually worked out, the “Great Garbage Rush” was on!
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Recycling those YUGE windmills, now that’s a worry. (
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I was thinking about that yesterday as I dropped my recycling off at the local dump. Recycling is free, but it costs 2 dollars per bag for disposal of rubbish. There are special segregated dumpsters separating out different types of stuff. Of course you try and sneak as much into recycling so you do not have to pay to get rid of your waste. This probably adds to the contamination,
I visited one dump years ago that had separate holes in the ground for different recyclables! I chose not to sore my waste.
30
I’m reminded of an old science fiction story where people used a special vacuum device that allowed them to dispose of all their rubbish by teleporting it to another world. It went well for a while until the other world decided to teleport it all back in one go. Let’s hope China doesn’t decide to ship it all back via that port they now occupy in Darwin.
20
Good news. One day Australia will probably need to hire this (or a few) as the grid collapses. We could have one moored off each major Australian city. It supplies 70MW electrical from two modified nuclear ice breaker reactors.
http://amp.abc.net.au/article/9707430
Russia’s floating nuclear power plant bound for the Arctic Ocean
The floating plant, the Akademik Lomonosov, was towed on Saturday (local time) out of the St Petersburg shipyard where it was constructed.
It is to be towed through the Baltic Sea and around the northern tip of Norway to Murmansk, where its reactors are to be loaded with nuclear fuel.
The Lomonosov is to be put into service in 2019 in the Arctic off the coast of Chukotka in the far east, providing power for a port town and for oil rigs.
The project has been widely criticised by environmentalists — Greenpeace has dubbed it a “floating Chernobyl.”
“Nuclear reactors bobbing around the Arctic Ocean will pose a shockingly obvious threat to a fragile environment, which is already under enormous pressure from climate change,” Greenpeace nuclear expert Jan Haverkamp said in a statement.
“The floating nuclear power plants will typically be put to use near coastlines and shallow water … contrary to claims regarding safety, the flat-bottomed hull and the floating nuclear power plant’s lack of self-propulsion makes it particularly vulnerable to tsunamis and cyclones.”
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Posted this in a previous thread David and wonder why it’s ok to have floating windmills risk tsunamis and cyclones but not flat bottomed ships ? It is in Russia and miles from anywhere unlike the floating windfarms .
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Also Tsunamis like the one which hit land based Fukishima are not a problem for a floating power plant. A massive steady rise in the sea level only matters if you are on land. As for Cyclones, in the Arctic?
70
Cyclones being tropical storms, hurricanes, tornadoes, tyhphoons and the other manifestations of very hot water.
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He is possibly a good guy but Jan Haverkamp has a bachelors degree in biochemistry from the State University in Leiden and a bachelors and masters degree (academic engineer) in environmental sciences from Wageningen University.
While a professional nuclear safety adviser in radiation protection and can understand the issues with his ‘level 5B certificate as radiation protection advisor from the Technical University Delft’, his evaluation of the vessel as a floating Chernobyl is based on what, exactly? Of course he says the arctic is under ‘enormous pressure’ from Climate Change. Yes, a rise in the average of 0.5C (currently an average of 0.0C) would melt most of the ice which melts in summer anyway, but what is his reasoning here? Once you hear the key phrase Climate Change, you know it is all rent seeking and credibility goes missing. Anyone who equates the danger of melting sea ice with Chernobyl is just making it up.
After all, as Greenpeace adviser, it is what you would expect him to say.
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One wonders at the consistency of the International Green movement.
When China started to destroy reefs in the South China Sea, dredging for spoil and building huge concrete platforms, ‘there was nary a word spoken’.
Then when China started shipping nuclear power stations to the islands to power them up and help access
potential gas wells, the silence was more deafening.
Now the PRC is turning them into defensive[offensive?]weapon platforms with fossil fuel burning war planes positioned.
Will any one speak for this environment from their organisation?
Will we see sit in demos and Greenpeace shipping firing things, like stink bombs, at Chinese Destroyers?
The Green movement, by its silence,is in danger of losing its soul.
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Can you point out to me any Green who has a soul?
60
Kermit the Frog seemed pretty nice.
60
There is no point lecturing communist or dictatorial governments. They do not take any notice, so no one bothers. Worse, they can get very angry and vindictive. Just try lecturing China or Russia or even India or Pakistan or Nigeria or Zimbabwe or even Turkey on LGIBTWTF (Women Toddlers and Freemasons) rights or hurt feelings or carbon dioxide nuclear power or racism.
50
you would think this is the first ship ever to appear on or under the sea with anuclear power plant on board
30
Intermittent power sources should never be counted as part of grid production capacity so excluding the intermittents how close is Australia’s reliable power generating capacity to not being able to produce enough power? Unfortunately complicating this is hundreds of megawatts of hugely expensive to buy and run diesel generators that have been surreptitiously purchased that I guess could be counted in the “reliables” fleet.
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I’d add gas to that , gas is for cooking not generating power .
Coal or Nuke until someone invents a better way that is equal or exceeds .
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Agree. If anything they should be subtracted because they can upset and even bring down the grid in a couple of ways.
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The Versailles Effect:
When Louis the 14TH ascended the throne of France he had a problem with the aristocracy who wanted more independence. His Grandfather had won a Civil War, as had his Father. His method was to concentrate power in the Palais of Versailles and have the various Ducs, Marquises, Comtes and Vicomptes dance attendance on him in the hope of preferment. Within a few years they became prisoners in the place, as minor matters of precedence or of signs of favour and privilege became all important. That Louis “was sealing the doom of his line” was not so evident at the time, although his successor (and Great Grand son) recognised that “Après moi, le déluge” was likely.
That this was largely due to the isolation of the aristocracy from the general public was regarded, by the aristocracy, as a good thing. The views (and smell) of the general public were ignored, they were there to provide taxes and keep quiet, or else. The aristocracy were largely exempt from levies and devoted their time to demanding more money to be spent on themselves. When the money ran out a revolution was the result.
A similar effect is happening in Australia, where the same attitudes are evident. Canberra may lack the romance (and smell) of Versailles but the same attitudes apply. The States are to be ignored or reduced to subservience. The wishes of the general public are ignored, they are there to be lectured and bullied into whatever is the latest desire of the privileged. And if that means the public go back to living by candlelight at night (if they can afford it) well they should stop grumbling.
Thus the almost total acceptance in Canberra that a reduction of 0.2% in CO2 emissions when the rest of the World will be expanding them by 35% is considered a sign of superior taste and intellectual judgement. It is nothing of the sort of course but until the guillotine starts to work that view will prevail.
The inevitable result is that those at the top change, and the previous rulers will be left to scramble in the mud or flee abroad. The sooner the better in my opinion.
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I owned a single shot .22 as a boy but as an adult I have never wanted to own anything more than an air rifle. That doesn’t mean I will forgive Howard for disarming the nation.
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Hanrahan:
Don’t worry, the next step is to make ammunition so expensive that only crooks can afford it.
There may be some aweness about their unpopularity creeping into consciousness in Canberra, hence the building of huge fence around the (underground) Parliament House. Badly designed because the inmates can still get out.
What shows up is the cost of the whole thing, not just the RET.
From the Australian April 17: federal bureaucrats cost taxpayers $58 billion last year. That’s about 14 per cent of total government spending
does the tax department really need 20,000 staff costing $3,500 million each year, or $163,000 per employee, to collect taxes? To put this into some perspective, the US Internal Revenue Service employs about 90,000 people (give or take) which works out to be roughly one tax bureaucrat for every 2000 working age people. In Australia we have one tax official for every 500.
the Department of Social Services spends $5,500m every year just in admin costs. Again, an average of over $160,000 per employee
The Federal Department of Health employs 4500 people, costing $222,000 each. That’s a big number, especially since health spending is largely a state government remit. Then, finally, we have the Department of Foreign Affairs, whose 7000-plus employees cost taxpayers $240,000 each.
And let us not worry about Superannuation esp. politician’s take. It would be cheaper to give them all a knighthood for public service – worthless yes, but so has the public service been too.
50
Interestingly, a friend recently commented on 2 police installation he had seen that more closely resembled a fortified building in the Iraqi Green zone than the nations capital.
The first was the police academy – apparently on the road side, it has bunker-level external fortifications out the front, retractable road bollards and low concrete fences that make it look like its ready to be hit with an IED…totally over the top. Ironically, on the other side of the building it has no fortifications whatsoever and looks hilarious as a result.
The second was a local police station in the south of Canberra – apparently it has a dozen concrete road barriers sections outside the front door area of the police station, with idea that you can walk in a zig-zag fashion to the front door through a maze of tank/truck-borne IED stopping barriers.
My question is this – what do they know is coming, if they are creating police stations with war-zone level fortifications?
50
My concern isn’t whats coming but who’s side the authorities are going to be on, they have a sworn duty to protect and uphold the law but what happens when the laws are changed so radically we become the criminals?
One of the most irksome sayings to me is “If you’re not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to be worried about” NOT SO says Yonnie as the definition of doing something wrong can easily be changed by law if the majority don’t stay vigilant of their elected or unelected for that matter, consider back in the 1980’s when police wanted to use red light, speed or public surveillance cameras they had to go through an long process of applications public consultation etc.
People back then accepted that stupid saying above and look at us now, cameras on every corner facial recognition tracking abilities hacking peoples internet devices and still saying its for everyone’s security really? so if I can easily be recognised in Melbourne (yes it happened) and approached by police in under half an hour then why is it most criminals or those wanted for questioning walk around un-challanged?
I don’t claim to be any type of genius but I know when someone is trying to pull a swifty, call me crazy now but remember that I said it.
40
No I’d agree with you. I’ve made predictions about similar stuff and no one wanted to believe me, and it came true. Unfortunately.
Common sense says if you provide heavy fortifications around police stations ( and Parliament House ) , something is definitely coming. The local population hasn’t gone postal ( yet ) so the question is – what might cause that? Global cooling and food shortages? That would do it.
Police are becoming slowly more paramilitary too. And now we have many schools that can be used as internment centres with govt-funded 6′ black spiked fences. Police stations look like they are inside the Iraqi Green Zone and there are surveillance cameras everywhere in most major town centres.
Call me logical, but wouldn’t that constitute a general state of siege and effectively running an open air prison?
Good thing they have removed so many guns from society via Socialist gun control, so we can be “safe”…. /sarc
Its not good….
30
If you were a police officer would you like to work in a normal office style building?
30
It begs the deeper question of why you need to create police stations as bunkers……
What does that say about the state of things?
00
All of them.
Most of my associates are Green, from the inner city.
They, like us, to some extent, just polarise things.
They tend to be led more than us, because they have the support of virtually all locals, not our situation.
With a one party state and supreme rule, China is not a good place to argue for anything ‘controversial’.
One may end up as an organ donor.
However
from the safety of Belgium the Greens could be featured on SBS news arguing against destroying reefs in the South China Sea
without too much trouble.
It would give them street cred with all the fearfull littoral nations.
They are on the nose in India, and fight court campaigns not to ‘dredge the reef’ here in OZ, so a
pushback on China for dredging would give them cred in India.
They are active in Pakistan, the Chinese are getting the Pakistanis to build coal fired power stations
and send the electricity back to China, but Greens are opposing the mining of coal which would give
Pakistan energy security for a thousand years.
No word, though, of criticism of China.
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To Peter S 8.2
10
FT’s CAGW advocacy on show once more:
more at link:
Financial Times: FT Climate Finance Summit London
Aligning Policy and Practice – Investing for a 2 Degree World
London | 9 October 2018
Overview
Following the success of the inaugural FT Climate Finance Summit held in London in May 2017 and the more recent Climate Finance Summit New York in February the Financial Times is pleased to announce the second annual FT Climate Finance Summit London.
Agenda: 9th October
9.05am: Keynote Address: Climate finance, international politics, and market sentiment
Climate finance has the potential to compensate for political failures, such as countries pulling out of the Paris agreement. Some see the backlash against climate finance in the US by Trumps administration including the solar panel tariff as a blow to the entire climate change community. Brexit is spooking investors in the UK along with the government’s budget promise of ‘no new low carbon electricity levies until 2025’. What are the implications of international politics on the climate finance industry? How has the US and the international market responded? What are the barriers to mainstreaming the European climate finance market?
9.40am: Panel Discussion: Sector Focus: Clean energy transition and a low carbon future
Managing the grid: will virtual power plants be a profitable opportunity for green investment? ETC
Panellists:
Andrew Grant, Senior Analyst, Carbon Tracker
Ben Caldecott, Founding Director, Oxford Sustainable Finance Programme,University of Oxford…
10:20am Panel Discussion: Blended Finance: Bringing public and private together
Panellists:
Tony Clamp, Deputy Director, Private Sector Facility, Green Climate Fund
Corinne Molitor, Director, Innpact
12:50pm Keynote Interview: Financial Markets and the Sustainable Development Goals
This interview session will address the changes needed in financial markets for reaching the Sustainable Development Goals related to climate issues.
Simon Zadek, Co-Director, Inquiry into the Design of a Sustainable Financial System, United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP)…
Associate Sponsor (1)
Luxembourg for Finance (LFF) is the Agency for the Development of the Financial Centre. It is a public-private partnership between the Luxembourg Government and the Luxembourg Financial Industry Federation (PROFIL). Founded in 2008, its objective is to develop Luxembourg’s financial services industry and identify new business opportunities…
***In addition to being the first port of call for foreign journalists, LFF cooperates with the various professional associations and monitors global trends in finance, providing the necessary material on products and services available in Luxembourg…
https://live.ft.com/Events/2018/FT-Climate-Finance-Summit-London?reference=twitter&utm_source=soc&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=2018pclimatefinancesummitlondon
***tax haven Luxembourg, that is.
10
ugly:
25 Apr: Newsweek: Al Gore Says Trump Presidency Should Be ‘Terminated Early… Like A Bad Science Experiment’
By Harriet Sinclair
Former vice president Al Gore has hit out at President Donald Trump, saying that the presidency is like a science experiment gone wrong.
Speaking at an event organized by Axios (LINK), Gore told Mike Allen: “In science, some experiments are terminated early for ethical reasons,” in reference to the president…
On Wednesday, the passionate environmental campaigner said that despite his disappointment on Trump’s decision to withdraw the U.S. from the Paris climate deal, he believed it was possible that a future president could rejoin the accord, Newsmax reported.”I don’t think he’s going to change on that,” Gore said of the president’s decision to leave the climate deal.
“I know what you’re thinking, President Trump made his statement, but the first day on which the U.S. could legally withdraw from the Paris agreement happens to be the day after the next president election,” Gore added. ***”If there is a new president, a new president could simply give 30 days’ notice and the U.S. is right back in the agreement.”…
http://www.newsweek.com/al-gore-suggests-trumps-presidency-science-experiment-gone-wrong-900765
***something that needs to be clarified. how does the transition period factor into withdrawal, should Trump lose the election in 2020? after all, Obama made a deal with Turnbull re asylum seekers during his transition period.
nothing else on the following page except this:
24 Apr: Axios: Al Gore compares Trump presidency to bad science experiment
During a conversation with Axios’ Mike Allen this morning, former Vice President Al Gore compared the Trump presidency to a science experiment gone wrong.
“In science, some experiments are terminated early for ethical reasons”…
https://www.axios.com/al-gore-trump-presidency-science-experiment-terminated-ethical-reasons-eb267c51-4690-498a-9c26-f9abee858c75.html
more to come.
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Mike Allen of Axios:
Wikipedia: Michael Allen (journalist)
Michael Allen is an American political journalist. He is the co-founder and executive editor of Axios and former chief political reporter for Politico…
Criticism and controversy
Allen has attracted criticism for focusing coverage on superficial aspects of politics and of the culture of Washington D.C. In November 2013, The Washington Post wrote a lengthy article detailing a payola scandal in which Allen would give favorable Politico coverage in return for advertising dollars. Mr. Allen has refused to publicly comment. Jonathan Chait described Politico’s response as ‘evasive tripe’. Writing in Salon, Alex Pareene described his work as “indistinguishable from a paid advocate for business interests.”
In November 2015, Allen made an apology after the website Gawker reported that he offered to let Chelsea Clinton screen interview questions in advance of a proposed interview. The offer was made in a January 2013 email exchange between Allen and Hillary Clinton’s aide Philippe Reines. He also promised in the email that the interview would be “no surprises” and “no risk.”…
25 Apr: Axios: Amy Harder: Climate change as a flawed social movement
PHOTO: Al Gore speaks to Mike Allen at an Axios event
Robert Brulle, a sociologist at Drexel University, cited a 2017 study by Stanford sociologist Doug McAdam that concluded climate change “has spawned surprisingly little grassroots activism in the contemporary United States.” McAdam cites a few factors for that, such as Republicans denying the issue is a problem and lobbying by fossil-fuel companies…
One level deeper: While Brulle disagrees with Gore on the extent of similarities between climate activism and movements, the two seem to agree on a related idea: Lawsuits alleging oil and gas companies concealed what they knew about climate change could play a pivotal role in compelling Washington to act…
https://www.axios.com/climate-change-as-a-flawed-social-movement-4af6de1d-aa57-4539-9e4d-02f7cdc6514b.html
00
Wired gives Blood & Gore a platform for their business just prior to Bonn! linking to their report is not recommended, as the website is a mess:
24 Apr: Wired: Al Gore: ‘We’re in the early stages of a sustainability revolution’
The sustainability revolution has taken off, but there’s more work to do. Former US vice-president Al Gore and veteran investor David Blood explain why they’re championing thoughtful firms
By David Blood and Al Gore
(Al Gore is a former vice president of the United States and chairman of Generation Investment Management. David Blood is GIM senior partner; This article was first published in the May/June issue of WIRED magazine)
Sixteen of the 17 hottest years on record have occurred since 2001. Extreme weather events are now discussed as “the new normal”, though they may be but a preview of what scientists tell us is worse to come…
It does not have to be this way. In fact, as Generation Investment Management’s (LINK) (GIM) recent – and first annual – “Sustainability Trends Report” shows, the world is at the beginning of a seismic shift. More firms are employing a sustainable approach to business, as it can benefit the planet and society as much as their bottom line. Based on our analysis, there are clear indicators we are in the early stages of a global “Sustainability Revolution” that has the magnitude of the Industrial Revolution and the speed of the Digital Revolution. Empowered by new digital tools, including the internet of things and machine learning, this Sustainability Revolution is giving many businesses the ability to manipulate electrons, atoms and molecules with the same precision used by computer and networking firms to manipulate bits of information…
The second takeaway shows that firms are encouraging consumers to use products in a more sustainable way. Many – especially in the Millennial generation – have little interest in owning assets outright, preferring to rent them for short intervals, or share them with others. A decade ago, fewer than half a million people were members of car-sharing schemes. Now there are six milion. Bike-sharing schemes are also climbing…
A new generation of consumers is demanding greener and more ethical products. Businesses and investors alert to this shift will reap the benefits, and will be engines of change.
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/al-gore-sustainability-generation-investment-management-interview
FT – so surprise – also does Gore’s business a favour:
Al Gore: sustainability is history’s biggest investment opportunity
Financial Times – 28 Apr 2018
Minutes later, Mr Gore explains his company’s objective. “When we started Generation our mission was to prove the business case that the full integration of sustainability into investments need not sacrifice returns,” he says…
10
Blood and Gore. Say no more . . . . .
40
Luckily for us in the USA, Al Gore’s presidency was terminated early and we never had to do that science experiment.
70
Be careful, there is talk of Gore in 2020. Think about it, the rest of the democrat contenders are nearly 100 years old and/or certifiably insane.
30
I have good news and bad news. First, the bad news. I had this really neat idea that would benefit life wherever it exists in the universe. I decided to share my idea with life outside the earth. To that end, I encoded my idea using the universal language of mathematics, picked an electromagnetic carrier wavelength (15 microns), and broadcast my idea to the universe. Unfortunately, I was unaware that CO2 is an idea trapping gas. The CO2 in the earth’s atmosphere trapped my idea within the confines of the earth. Sad really, especially when one is trying to save the universe. Now the good news. Atmospheric CO2 absorbed my transmission and redirected it back towards the earth’s surface providing the benefits of my wisdom to all earthlings.
60
Thanks Reed but we won’t be holding our breath………
30
Laughable stuff from a (well meaning but misguided) ex neighbour of mine
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention
20
Is it just the gullible (which must include me) or is everyone getting the advert in that article.
Good for a laugh?
10
Watch Christiyarrna tackle Climate Change™ single handedly for 90 minutes.
Only £20 Sterling.
Surely it doesn’t cost that much to whip yourself into an out-of-control state of depression.
Go Christy!!
20
Australian National University ought be ashamed of itself.
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2018/04/29/solar-wind-to-replace-all-fossil-fuels-within-two-decades-according-to-renewable-lobby/
“Wind power may be widely available, as the article suggests, but it is also disastrously unreliable. Any grid that relied largely on wind power would very quickly implode.
One would assume that the authors, given their accreditations, would know all of this. (Blakers is a Professor of Engineering, whilst Stocks is a Research Fellow). So one is entitled to question why they wrote this pile of rubbish in the first place.
But then when you read their full accreditations, you understand why: In other words, Blakers and Stocks have been paid by the renewable lobby to write this rubbish.
Shame on The Conversation for printing such palpable nonsense, and shame on the Australian National University for funding it.”
100
I profess, to write whatever it takes to get published.
30
Peer-reviewed?
50
So how do they explain the huge number of new coal fired power stations still being built around the world? Is it because Australia has taken the onerous task alone to stop global warming? These academic types truly amaze me. They have launched from their ivory towers into outer space and thus so far removed from reality here on earth they are complete fools.
20
Another item on the horizon: The Greens are coming for your automobile air con. R-12 was replaced by R-134a. Prices rose from USD 1 to USD 8 per pound or approx USD 2.9/Kg to USD 18/Kg. The new stuff, HFO 1234YF, is some USD 200 per Kg. Mandated in EU no later than 1 Jan 2017 and in US no later than 2021. Oh. And it has higher flammability.
https://refrigeranthq.com/hfo-1234yf-refrigerant-history/
Daimler is sticking with CO2 (R-744) as a refrigerant. With a Critical Temperature of 31C, there are obvious problems.
I’ve heard of discharge pressures approaching 300 Bar or more.
Methinks the Green Goal is De-Industrialization, or Suicide by Applied Fantasy.
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“Suicide by Applied Fantasy”
What a great phrase…I may have to borrow if for future use.
80
Would anyone care to engage a silly Masters student in a discussion of his pseudo religion? It all started with a cartoon that (veiled) advocated killing people who don’t support the CAGW/Climate change agenda.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/241426845941348/permalink/1710635509020467/?comment_id=1710853012332050&reply_comment_id=1710866058997412¬if_id=1525020910548556¬if_t=group_comment_reply&ref=notif
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The link is inaccessible Bill. As if it has been replaced or deleted.
40
it’s working for me. Perhaps you have to be logged into facebook (aka faceplant) for it to work?
40
I was required to log in first, so no go.
51
Nothing new. The environ-fascist Greens some years ago advertised people who refused to follow their agenda would have their heads exploded. I still remembers the horrible video. Only the super ignorant or mentally deranged would vote for the Greens.
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Australia pledges half a billion to restore Great Barrier Reef
April 29, 2018
Scientists have said the reef suffered a ‘catastrophic die-off’ of coral during an extended heatwave in 2016
Australia pledged half a billion dollars to restore and protect the Great Barrier Reef Sunday in what it said would be a game-changer for the embattled natural wonder, but conservationists were not convinced.
The World Heritage-listed site, which attracts millions of tourists, is reeling from significant bouts of coral bleaching due to warming sea temperatures linked to climate change.
It is also under threat from the coral-eating crown-of-thorns starfish, which has proliferated due to pollution and agricultural runoff.
Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said more than Aus$500 million ($400 million) would go towards improving water quality, tackling predators, and expanding restoration efforts.
Turnbull said it was the “largest ever single investment—to protect the reef, secure its viability and the 64,000 jobs that rely on the reef”.
“We want to ensure the reef’s future for the benefit of all Australians, particularly those whose livelihood depends on the reef,” he added.
The reef is a critical national asset, contributing Aus$6.4 billion a year to the Australian economy.
Canberra has previously committed more than Aus$2.0 billion to protect the site over the next decade, but has been criticised for backing a huge coal project by Indian mining giant Adani nearby.
With its heavy use of coal-fired power and relatively small population, Australia is considered one of the world’s worst per-capita greenhouse gas polluters.
Canberra insists it is taking strong action to address the global threat of climate change, having set an ambitious target to reduce emissions by 26 to 28 percent from 2005 levels by 2030.
Turnbull said part of the money will be used to mitigate the impacts of climate change, but gave no details.
Conservationists said while the funding was “an important step”, the biggest threat to the reef was global warming and not enough was being done to combat it by embracing clean energy.
“Science is well aware of what’s killing the coral. It’s the excess heat from burning fossil fuels,” said Bill McKibben, founder of the global grassroots climate movement 350.org.
“To simultaneously promote the world’s biggest coal mine (Adani) while pretending to care about the world’s largest reef is an acrobatic feat only a cynical politician would attempt.”
Australian Conservation Foundation chief Kelly O’Shanassy agreed.
“Our elected representatives can’t have it both ways,” she said. “Climate change is the number one threat to the Great Barrier Reef and only concerted action to cut pollution will fully protect it.”
The bulk of the new funding—just over Aus$200 million—was earmarked to improve water quality by changing farming practices and adopting new technologies and land management.
“The money will go towards improving water quality, working with farmers to prevent sediment, nitrogen and pesticide runoff into the reef,” said Environment Minister Josh Frydenberg.
“It will ensure that we tackle the crown-of-thorns… and use the best available science to ensure our coral is resilient to heat and light stress.”
He said the government would work with traditional Aboriginal owners, the tourist industry, farmers and scientists, to save the reef, calling the commitment “a game-changer”.
Earlier this month, scientists said the site suffered a “catastrophic die-off” of coral during an extended heatwave in 2016, threatening a broader range of reef life than previously feared.
A study in the journal Nature said some 30 percent of the reef’s coral perished, the first of an unprecedented two successive years of coral bleaching along the 2,300-kilometre (1,400-mile) reef.
https://phys.org/news/2018-04-australia-pledges-billion-great-barrier.html#jCp
____________________________
(…) The World Heritage-listed site, which attracts millions of tourists, (…)
WHÔôoaah ! ‘joannenova.com.’ ?!
40
Modern governments have made it quite clear that they are entitled to spend as much of the tax dollar as is necessary to be re-elected.
50
I know…feel this reef……thats real quality…Guv……specially greenwashed….
40
half a billion to “restore” the GBR
half a billion to patch up the SA grid
pretty soon you are talking real money
50
“The reality is that the rising tide of solar photovoltaics (PV) and wind energy offers our only realistic chance of avoiding dangerous climate change.” Now how can you believe an article which makes so many deceitfully wrong statements in the one sentence?
Professor Andrew Blakers, is Director of the Australian National University Centre for Sustainable Energy Systems, which employs 60 staff. He is responsible for several innovations in solar energy photovoltaic technology. Objective then.
Dr. Matthew Stocks. From 1994-1998, I undertook my Doctor of Philosophy Studies in the Department of Engineering at the Australian National University under the supervision of Professors Andrew Blakers and Andres Cuevas on“High Efficiency Multicrystalline Silicon Solar Cells”. Blakers’ student. Also unbiased.
So they both make their entire living and careers from Solar Cell technology. Of course it is the future for mankind, the only source possible. You would have to cover all of Victoria with solar cells to match coal in total output and we would still be in the cold and dark at night. Unless the wind blew.
90
With respect to #16
30
With all this extra CO2 in the atmosphere they assumed there would be more flooding, but they couldn’t find it in Fiji.
http://www.c3headlines.com/2018/04/fiji-scientists-establish-relationship-between-modern-co2-emissions-severe-flooding-failed-prediction.html
40
Interesting revelation by Andrew Bolt. With what has happened with the two Koreas of late I won’t be holding my breath for Trump to receive a much deserved Nobel Peace Price. Funny how Obama got one for doing nothing at all other than becoming President. Not to worry, I’m sure Trump believes such prizes are totally useless and in the ideas of George Orwell mean the exact opposite so they should be called Nobel War Prizes instead.
GIVE TRUMP A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE
50
Watching that ceremony at the DMZ where Kim and Moon stepped back and forth over the line while shaking hands I thought that Kim is now invested in the process. If he now acts in bad faith he will lose face in Asia.
The world is a little lucky having Trump, the unpredictable hawk, and Moon, the dove who didn’t want defensive missile systems in the south, in power at the same time. The democrats are claiming Trump had nothing to do with these potential peace talks, that it was sanctions and Zi that forced Kim to the table. Who toughened up sanctions and “convinced” Zi that China should get fair dinkum too?
Even if Trump serves two terms he won’t see complete unification, that will take a decade or so. But Koreans are intelligent and industrious so the north could make great strides in that time.
I’d be happy to have the three leaders share the NPP.
20
“Watching that ceremony at the DMZ where Kim and Moon stepped back and forth over the line while shaking hands…”
That ceremony reminded me of the first time I visited “Four Corners” in the US which is the only place in the US where four States meet at a corner. This place is marked by a plaque embedded in the ground with a set of perpendicular lines intersecting where the four States meet. I remember running around the plaque so I could visit 4 States in less than 5 seconds. Perhaps my ceremony didn’t have quite the dignity of the Korean ceremony, but still they seemed similar to me.
70
It’s very likely that China has played some part in all this. Perhaps Trump convinced them it’s in their best interest to make the Korean Peninsula a much more peaceful place. Next stop for Trump is possibly the Middle East. Imagine if he pulled that one off even though it wouldn’t last long for obvious reasons. It would be one of the most significant moments in history.
20
So that’s why there were no cyclones in Western Australia this year !
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-30/how-australias-most-cyclone-prone-area-escaped-a-2018-battering/9704288
20
Fewer cyclones with climate change – but why?
7 April 2011:
“We can’t give a lucid answer at this time,” replied Knutson – which he admitted, was a concern.
One clue, however, came from the modelling.
Knutson said that removing carbon dioxide from the models wiped off around half of the cyclone’s predicted intensity.
https://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/04/fewer-cylones-with-climate-cha.html
20
‘As for what would make cyclones happen less often: “That’s something I would like to figure out,” says Sherwood.’
I nominate global cooling, which began last year.
20
I nominate lack of strong La Niñas.
00
According to the Conversation 2014: ‘The first – and luckiest – scenario would be for Australia to continue to have a low frequency of cyclones as we have in the past 40 years, with no increase in intensity when cyclones do hit. That’s the best possible scenario.’
So I admit my mistake, global warming causes less cyclones.
20
There’s no doubt that when it comes to climate seance – it’s a dogs breakfast. On one hand they prognosticate that such and such will eventuate and when it doesn’t ,declare the opposite. What a waste of money.
20
I believe that WA has more cyclones during La Niña years. Interesting to note when Broome last had significant rain around 1998. Also Perth hasn’t had a proper “heatwave” – I.e. 3 weeks of temps in the high 30s, for a very long time.
10
BBC weather forecast: snow and rain set to cause travel chaos in UK as temperature plunge.
30
more info in comments:
29 Apr: WUWT: Anthony Watts: NOAA/NWS document: wind turbines affect weather radar, create false storm impressions
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/04/29/noaa-nws-document-wind-turbines-affect-weather-radar-create-false-storm-impressions/
20
29 Apr: Toronto Sun: Lorrie Goldstein: Scheer’s carbon fantasies as bad as Trudeau’s
(Conservative leader Andrew) Scheer told Evan Solomon he can “guarantee” the Conservatives will unveil a national climate strategy before next year’s election and that it will “of course” meet Canada’s targets under the United Nations’ Paris climate accord, signed by Trudeau, plus tackle other major environmental issues.
“I’ve got five kids, I want them to have a cleaner environment” Scheer said, evoking Liberal Environment Minister Catherine McKenna’s three children as the reason she’s fighting climate change and Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne’s granddaughter for why she’s on board…
For the love of God, can we not spare innocent children from blame for the nonsense politicians of all stripes have been spouting on climate change for three decades?…
Back in the real world, for Canada to achieve Trudeau’s 2020 commitment under the Paris agreement would require cutting our industrial greenhouse gas emissions, even using the Liberals’ suspect numbers, by 96.4 megatonnes annually (a megatonne or Mt represents one million tonnes) in less than three years, the equivalent of shutting down almost all of Canada’s mining and upstream oil and gas production sector (100 Mt annually).
To meet Trudeau’s 2030 target would require cutting emissions by 191.6 Mt annually in less than 13 years, the equivalent of shutting down almost all of Canada’s transportation sector (199 Mt annually).
These targets were impossible to achieve when Harper set them and they’re more impossible now given the passage of time since Trudeau adopted them.
They would require Ottawa to impose a national carbon price of hundreds of dollars per tonne of emissions immediately, compared to Trudeau’s price of $10 per tonne today, rising to $50 in 2022…
There are many things we can do to improve the environment, including but not limited to, addressing climate change.
But that will only begin when politicians tell us the truth.
That is, that the Paris climate accord is a …BANNED WORD, READ ON
http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-scheers-carbon-fantasies-as-bad-as-trudeau
00
30 Apr: SBS: AAP: China emissions plan to affect Australians
Australian companies will be affected by China’s new emissions trading scheme, the Carbon Market Institute says ahead of a summit in Melbourne.
Chinese officials are set to offer some insight into how the country is preparing to reduce its reliance on coal and oil.
The Chinese government will be represented at an emissions reduction summit in Melbourne this week to explain what China’s new scheme will mean for Australia.
Jiang Kechun of China’s National Development and Reform Commission is expected to address the policy to decarbonise its economy, reduce reliance on coal and cut air pollution.
“China is increasingly more important because it’s a big Australian partner internationally and what they do will have ramifications for companies that are within the supply chain of Chinese companies affected by carbon pricing,” Carbon Market Institute managing director Brad Kerin told AAP ahead of the summit.
Coal is Australia’s second largest export to China and is worth about $8 billion a year.
Up to 550 people are expected to attend the two-day summit, starting on Tuesday and hosted by the institute, with almost two thirds representing the business community…
Federal Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg is a keynote speaker at the event and is expected to provide an update on energy policy, including the National Energy Guarantee…
His state counterparts have agreed more work should be done to develop the NEG plan which would implement a 26 per cent emissions reduction target for the electricity sector…
Other speakers include Labor’s foreign affairs spokeswoman Penny Wong, head of the US California Air Resources Board Richard Corey and leading Australian economist Ross Garnaut.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/china-emissions-plan-to-affect-australians
30 Apr: The NEG, and what it means for Australia’s carbon credit market
By Gordon Weiss
(Dr Gordon Weiss is a Principal Consultant and Associate with Energetics. His expertise lies in energy and carbon policy development, renewable energy technologies and energy management in the resources sector. He has worked with a number of governments on the development of energy and greenhouse gas programs and policies, and is arguably one of Australia’s leading forecasters of emissions reduction trajectories)
We have a challenge ahead if we are to fulfil our commitments under the Paris Climate Agreement and as yet, no clear pathway – particularly given how little we seem to be prepared to require of the electricity sector under the NEG.
The policy levers to drive emissions reductions outside the NEG boil down to the Emissions Reduction Fund (ERF) and the Safeguard Mechanism (SGM).
At this point we can disregard the ERF because the initial tranche of funding is close to exhaustion and while the 2017 Climate Policy Review said additional funding would be released, no indication has been given on either the timing or the amount.
The only effective policy available to the Commonwealth is the Safeguard Mechanism…
This analysis begins by calculating Australia’s emissions under business as usual (BAU) and the gap that must be closed if Australia is to meet our 2030 target. We then explore the abatement activities to close that gap and how they can be implemented…
However, Australia’s BAU emissions in 2030 are forecast to be 539 Mt CO2-e, or approximately 103 Mt CO2-e higher than required by Australia’s 28% emissions reduction commitment…READ ON
https://reneweconomy.com.au/neg-means-australias-carbon-credit-market-78377/
00
Bosch diesel engine emissions reduction technology –
http://www.autonews.com/article/20180425/OEM06/180429878/bosch-claims-a-breakthrough-that-could-save-diesel-engines?cciid=email-autonews-daily
20
29 Apr: UK Independent: The Tories are planning to halt onshore wind farm production, despite most people supporting it
The barriers to onshore wind, imposed after the general election, are about to be set in stone, as they turn from guidance to formal status
by Leo Murray
(Leo Murray is director of strategy at 10:10, a charity that tackles climate change)
And although ministers insist that there is no ban, just four wind turbines have been allowed since the new guidance came into force, according to the government’s planning database. England has seen a ***94 per cent collapse in new planning applications for wind energy.
These barriers to onshore wind are about to be set in stone, as they turn from guidance to formal status as part of the planning framework.
This week, the government released the latest instalment of their public opinions tracker survey (LINK), marking five full years of official data collection on the British public’s views on climate change and energy. The most recent data shows that public support for onshore wind is now at a record high of 76 per cent…
Exploring the full five years’ of data also lets us look in detail at the very small proportion of people who are strongly opposed to onshore wind (3.5 per cent of us across the whole dataset); the current planning policy has been written for a tiny minority…
Hostility to wind turbines is almost unheard of in the under-45s; the over-65s are seven times more likely to oppose onshore wind. This contrast jars awkwardly with one of the key justice issues at the heart of society’s relationship with climate change: it is a profoundly dangerous problem which is being caused predominantly by older generations, while younger people will have to live with the consequences. That older generations are also blocking the solutions to this problem seems perverse and vindictive. While some people may not like the look of wind turbines, young people really need more of them, and fast.
Worse, the data shows that the more inaccurate someone’s views about climate change are, the more likely they are to oppose onshore wind. This might seem obvious, but reflect for a moment: national planning policy is being tailored for a very small proportion of Brits who disproportionately reject the scientific consensus on climate change…
But evidence shows that there is a political solution to winning public consent for new onshore wind projects: local community ownership. As smart grids spread, communities could be rewarded for hosting their own wind farms with lower energy bills as well as financial returns…
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tories-onshore-wind-farm-production-turbines-climate-change-a8327966.html
00
behind paywall:
30 Apr: UK Times: Mike Merritt: RSPB criticises wind farm go‑ahead at Strathy South
The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds has criticised the Scottish government for approving a wind farm in a wildlife-rich area of Sutherland.
SSE, the energy company, wants to build a 39-turbine development on the site of a non-native conifer tree plantation in the heart of the county’s peatlands, Flow Country, seven miles south of Strathy village. SSE has already built a 33-turbine site at Strathy North.
Local communities support the development because of the promised financial benefits but conservationists oppose it. A public inquiry was held in June 2015.
RSPB Scotland said: “Scottish ministers’ approval of the Strathy South wind farm is desperately disappointing…
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rspb-criticises-wind-farm-go-ahead-at-strathy-south-qtn7sqlhv
28 Apr: EnergyVoice: RSPB ‘desperately disappointed’ government approved Highland windfarm
Scottish Ministers have granted planning consent to SSE’s hugely controversial Strathy South Wind Farm proposal for Sutherland in the Highlands…
RSPB Scotland has said it is “desperately disappointed” by the decision for what is an internationally recognised preservation area…
The go ahead was given despite conservation groups calling for the plan to be scrapped due to the environmental importance of the area.
The windfarm will be located in the Caithness and Sutherland Peatlands Special Protection Area and Ramsar.
An RSPB Scotland spokeswoman said: “The Scottish Minsters’ approval of the Strathy South windfarm is desperately disappointing.
“Strathy South is right in the very heart of the special protection area and Ramsar site, a European and internationally important place for wildlife.
“The decision to approve a windfarm in this extremely sensitive location sits very awkwardly with Scottish Ministers commitments to maintain the highest international environmental standards…
She added: “RSPB Scotland will be looking very closely at this decision over the coming days before we decide what further action might may be possible to help protect this very special place.”
MSP Edward Mountain added his voice to that of the RSPB saying: “Local views were clearly over-ruled. I believe that local planning decisions should be made locally. Anything else flies in the face of democracy.
The project has not been without local support, however, with the chairwoman of Strathy and Armadale Community Council, Janette Mackay, welcoming the Scottish Government’s decision.
She hopes the community will see significant benefits from the windfarm and said: “After waiting nearly three years for the result of the public enquiry we are delighted to learn that Strathy South has been given the go ahead…
https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/170151/rspb-desperately-disappointed-government-approved-a-windfarm/
10
Pat,
RAMSAR wetlands here in OZ are protected under the The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999. One section says:
“An action that will, or is likely to, have a significant impact on a Ramsar wetland will be subject to a rigorous environmental assessment and approval regime under the EPBC Act. Actions that are taken in contravention of the EPBC Act may attract a civil penalty of up to $5.5 million, or a criminal penalty of up to $46,200 or, in extreme cases, up to seven years’ imprisonment.
An ‘action’ includes a project, development, undertaking or any activity or series of activities.”
It would be interesting to see if the equivalent UK legislation has similar penalties!
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29 Apr: Weather Channel: More Snow and Record Cold Close Out April in Great Lakes and Interior Northeast (We’re Sorry)
By Chris Dolce
Snow fell in upstate New York and northwest Pennsylvania Sunday morning as record lows were set in the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley, putting an exclamation mark on what has a been an awful April in those regions.
Residents in western New York shared photos on social media showing their displeasure of this wintry weather on the next to last day of April.
Accumulations, if any, were light in most areas, but the snow was a fitting end to one of the coldest Aprils on record in parts of upstate New York…
Although it wasn’t snowing in the western Great Lakes and Ohio Valley Sunday morning, the cold temperatures did set several daily record lows.
Indianapolis and Cincinnati saw their coldest April 29 on record as the low temperature in both locations dipped to 30 degrees. For Cincinnati, the previous daily record low of 31 degrees was more than 140 years old, set in 1874.
Chicago tied its daily record low for April 29 of 31 degrees Sunday morning…
https://weather.com/news/news/2018-04-29-snow-new-york-pennsylvania-record-cold-chicago
29 Apr: NewPressNow: Cold spring stymies planting for farmers
By Ray Scherer
A late-arriving season has stymied some of the area’s farmers from getting out in the field in what’s regarded as prime time for planting corn. It’s not simply the coolness of the air, but soil that has been slow to warm, which has prevented an earlier start to the season in some quarters.
Missouri Climatologist Pat Guinan termed the abnormally cold weather as “nothing short of amazing.” He said northern areas of the state averaged better than 15 degrees below normal during the first 10 days of April.
Guinan said Missouri was on pace to undergo a record coldest April. The previous record was set in 1907…
The National Agricultural Statistics Service also acknowledged the presence of poor conditions for planting and growth across most of the state, with freezing in western Missouri and high winds everywhere.
The service said only 16 percent of corn planting was complete statewide as of a week ago.
http://www.newspressnow.com/news/local_news/cold-spring-stymies-planting-for-farmers/article_7b43ed98-7f99-573d-8b48-4faf5406b50c.html
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from British Columbia, Canada:
29 Apr: The Province Editorial: The carbon tax cover-up continues
It’s increasingly clear Justin Trudeau’s national carbon tax is a boondoggle waiting to happen.
It’s going to hike the cost for regular Canadians on everything from gasoline and home heating to groceries and the cost to run hockey rinks. It will disproportionately impact low-income families.
As a recent Postmedia story detailed, the revenues from a national carbon tax could hit $35 billion per year.
Keep in mind that staggering sum is based on a tax of $50 per tonne, which is what Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is mandating the provinces introduce by 2022.
Yet some academics and activists are lobbying for the price to be $100 per tonne and even higher.
In other words, the hurt felt by regular Canadians could get worse.
A carbon tax will discourage investment in the oil sector and undermine economic growth, particularly given the U.S., our largest trading partner, has no plans to introduce a carbon tax there…
On the other hand, some argue the tax could be made revenue neutral — that revenue could be returned to taxpayers…
The more likely reality is our cost of living will rise and carbon revenue will fuel green programs that politically help the government as much or more than they help the environment.
If Trudeau has nothing to hide, why won’t his government release a Finance Canada report breaking down the costs of a carbon tax on different income levels across the country?
The Information Commissioner of Canada has opened an investigation to determine if the government broke the Access to Information Act by withholding this information…
Outrage over rising energy in Australia forced politicians there to scrap their carbon tax.
Imagine the reaction, ***in a cold weather climate like Canada, once prices for gas, groceries and home heating start their inevitable climb…
http://theprovince.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-the-carbon-tax-cover-up-continues/wcm/86fe090c-6a3b-4fa4-bd99-a812a01b492b
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coldwave? coldspell?
30 Apr: Queensland Times: WEATHER: Temps drop below 10C ahead of warm change
by Helen Spelitis
TEMPERATURES dropped below 10C this morning as Ipswich and surrounds continue to shiver through colder than average mornings.
Just before 6am Ipswich’s temperature hit a low of 8.5C.
That’s lower than Gatton’s morning temperature of 9.4C and the coldest Ipswich morning so far, this month.
April’s minimum average for Ipswich is 14C…
By the time Saturday arrives, minimum temperatures will be back in ‘normal’ range for Ipswich…
https://www.qt.com.au/news/weather-chilly-ipswich-mornings-ahead-warm-change/3400432/
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Blocking highs are a global cooling signal.
http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/synoptic_col.shtml
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30 Apr: SunshineCoastDaily: The town shivering through Coast’s chilliest nights
by Bill Hoffman
BEERBURRUM on the Sunshine Coast’s southern flank has recorded the region’s coldest autumn temperature to date dropping to just 11.9 degrees at 6am.
But it was far from the coldest place in south east Queensland overnight with Canungra in the ‘Cold’ Coast hinterland getting down to 7.2 degrees while further west Kingaroy recorded 6.5 degrees at 6.42am.
Bureau of Meteorology forecaster Livio Regano said places out of the wind recorded lower temperatures than those affected…
Mr Regano said cold inland early morning temperatures and a much warmer ocean at this time of year set up a morning land breeze from the south-west which was the opposite of the afternoon onshore sea breezes…
https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/the-town-shivering-through-coasts-chilliest-nights/3400992/
29 Apr: WeatherChannel: Top 5 Things We Will Remember from the 2017-2018 Winter Storm Season
By Jonathan Belles, The Winter Storms Naming Committee
The Winter Storms Naming Committee – made up of meteorologists Jon Erdman of weather.com and Tom Niziol and Stu Ostro of The Weather Channel – has put together a list of their top five takeaways from this year’s winter storm season…
1. The epic onslaught of four straight nor’easters in March
A barrage of high-impact winter storms began the first three weeks of March like a lion on the East Coast.
Winter storms Riley, Quinn, Skylar and Toby each brought heavy snow, gusty winds and coastal flooding to parts of the mid-Atlantic and/or Northeast. Riley and Skylar both underwent bombogenesis near the coast…READ ON
https://weather.com/storms/winter/news/2018-04-25-winter-storm-takeaways-2017-2018
00
It was 0C again this morning and 21C this afternoon…very pleasant. Now, late evening, it is already down to 6C, correction, 5C at 1050 pm.
00
North Central Vic.
00
I put a light cover on the bed a few nights ago and I’m not using a fan. 28 – 30 days, 20 in the morning.
This is by far the best time of the year to visit NQ. The heat and humidity are gone but you can still go swimming and the country is still green after the summer rain.
00
I just received an email from Origin Energy asking me to participate in a competition “How do you spread good energy?”. Its part of their campaign Good Energy. “What is good energy? It’s energy that’s smarter, easier, more sustainable and more affordable. It’s also about putting customers at the heart of everything we do.
Tell us in 25 words or less.
Best 10 entries will each win a $2,000 Visa Prepaid Gift Card!
Here is my response:
“Get the federal government to abolish the LRET, with its hidden annual $4 billion subsidy to ordinary electricity consumers like me, which is driving base load generation bankrupt, ruining network reliability. Got it?” I don’t think that I’ll win – because too many words!
110
Good energy is the type everyone can afford. Few can afford solar panels and I should not be forced to subsidise uneconomic run-whenever-you-like electricity generators.
25 words if you count the string adjective as a single word. It could be replaced with intermittent.
40
AGL acquired Liddell Power Station on a two for one package deal with Bayswater Power Station when the NSW Labor Keneally Government sold electricity assets for less than half the lowest valuation losing taxpayers $6.1 billion.
The question is: will AGL accept this offer?
Alinta Energy have come to the table with a billion dollar bid for the Liddell power station in the Hunter Valley.
30
No unless forced. They stand to make many billions by making gas dominant over coal for dispatchable generation.
50
I’m surprised people aren’t speaking of Enron and AGL in the same sentence. Don’t they see the same modus operandi?
30
AGL would rather see Rome burn than do the right thing, even though a billion is a tidy sum for a supposedly worthless asset, which gives lie to AGL’s claim. Like Rick says it will probably take a gun to their head to get AGL to sell. I’d like to see that permanent smirk wiped of Vesey’s smarmy face.
40
Well, that was an interesting exercise.
So then, what sort of an endless pit that you just throw money into is this ancient old relic called Liddell, now destined for the scrap heap. It must be bleeding money for AGL to want to close it down eh!
After Months with at least two Units offline, Liddell finally has all four of its Units back up and running, but hey, that’s only out of the goodness of their hearts to give the impression that they are doing the right thing, because there’s just no money to be made out of it eh!
While there were three days at the start, and two days in the middle when Unit One was off line, over the last ….. 28DAYS, just from the sale of the electricity that Liddell generated, the income from that generated electricity that they sold to the grid was, umm, a tick under ….. $66 MILLION.
In four weeks.
No wonder they want to close it down.
Either that, or run it into the ground over the next four years in an attempt to make as much as they can from it.
$66 MILLION in FOUR WEEKS.
Tony.
150
Yep. There’s a war on coal, openly declared across the West. Australia stands to be the biggest loser of all, Australia has to win the war.
Yes, the globos will let us export our coal to Asia in any quantity and, as I’ve witnessed during a recent exchange right here on JN, they will happily pretend that the massive trade isn’t really there. (I believe I compared it to ignoring a brontosaurus in a phone booth. Only a professional full-time spinner could pull that off.)
What the sickly green Undead want is a situation where we, the living, have to be unsure of supply and grateful for every “smart” watt. It’s the closest thing to fun the Undead can have.
The war on coal. Just win it.
80
Same old same old
Mountain of gas, export it and wring hands about local shortages
Mountains of coal, export it and demolish coal power plants and let steel manufacturing die
Mountains of uranium , export it and never consider nuclear power
Mountains of beef and lamb, export it live and never dream of onshore processing
Mountains of iron ore, export it and let steel manufacturing die
Above all else, never consider value adding and onshore jobs, just be a farm and quarry (fine businesses but not the only ones we should be in)
80
How do you get gas from the NW Shelf, or Gladstone for that matter, to Syd/Mlb?
There is gas in Gippsland but you can’t blame Santos for keeping that out of the market.
20
seriously? you can ship it to Japan and anywhere on the planet that wants it but it cant be shipped to Australia?
because we choose not to
30
No. We can’t ship it to Syd/Mlb because they have no LPG receiving terminals and our maritime unions would make domestic shipping prohibitively expensive. It really would be cheaper to buy and ship out of Singapore than locally, assuming that someone had some money to build the receiving terminals.
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You could pipe it from the NW shelf to join up with the gas network at Alice Springs, then onto the Ccooper Basin. Or you could join the the WA gas at Kalgoorlie to the eastern gas system at Port Augusta. In most of these cases you are looking at only 1900 kms to cover, about the same distance as the pipelines from the NW shelf to south of WA. The pipeline from the NW shelf to Kalgoorlie is 1378 kms, was constructed in a very short time with no fanfare and uses some of the gas to drive compressor pumps.
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I forgot mountains of recycling, just export it. Never attempt to reprocess on shore (SA had a plastics plant but the SA Govt managed to kill that with power prices)
40
Sydney has hottest April Eeevvvuuurrr.
Sydney smashes April records with a month of summer-like heat – The Sydney Morning Herald
https://apple.news/Ab1YWwh3qRu-zb1r756Mkmw
See link for full text.
///Even before the final temperatures for the month settle on Monday, readings for the first 29 days are far enough ahead of previous records to make it certain that April will be Sydney’s hottest in almost 160 years of records, Weatherzone says.///
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oh no. Is the best you can do is to write Eeevvvuuurrr. You need to mention homogenising, empirical data, the fact that you have a mate who remembers April 1954…
78
Much amusement, ‘Sydney’s hottest in almost 160 years of records’.
They don’t go back that far, without Stevenson Screens I don’t think its possible to accurately say what the temperature was.
BoM has a warm bias and a prone to cherry pick anomalies which fit their agenda.
92
Argee are you trying your famous distraction technique?
“I have had so many requests from my legions of fans to post more blogs. No really, there are a surprising number of people out there that read and re read my pastes… I mean posts … and check in to see if I have added anything new.
So today’s, and possibly this year’s, new post should satisfy those fans. Basically it is this link about scientific theories.
Yep, this is another placeholder in case I need to move someone on from their argument by distraction. You know the one where they write, “it is only a theory”. Amazingly, people still try to slip that one into an argument. They are often the same people who distract with, “it is only a model”, without understanding that their lives would soon come to an end without models.”
Having worked with Marlene Zuk many years ago I was drawn to read her book. This article gives a pretty good indication of the nature of the contents and I share the critique that it is sometimes trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer. And here is an example of a paleofantasist with a poor grasp of the mechanics of natural selection and the details of human evolution.
When your hear or read something and you are compelled to say, “Gee Aye “.
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“….lives would soon come to an end without models” seriously? he/she must have a very wide definition in mind for what consitutes a model , if they really think human life will cease if we cease having 100% faith in modelling.
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well duh. Of course the other alternative is to be all knowing. If we were all gods we would not need models to exist.
11
followed by a cut and paste distraction of your own. Why?
11
I have a non-mate who declares that the hottest Sydney April till now by mean max was 1922. Back when the Sydney Obs was a grassy knoll. Will that do?
The non-mate is called the BoM. The same non-mate reckons the hottest April here on the midcoast of NSW (no UHI much) is still that of 1914, with April 1956 galloping up the rear.
Btw, April 1922 was also hot here but our coolest April by mean max was in 1923, a whole 5C less than April 1922. Kind of radical…but people used to understand that climate is changeable like that. Also, it poured in April 1923 while it was very dry in April 1922. Which means that the statistic is pretty much useless, like all statistics that aren’t handled by mature interpretation and human understanding.
Someone should tell my non-mate, the BoM. You feed him any old number and he just swallows it like a starving seagull.
92
It’s interesting, this idea that if something has not been recorded for 160 years, there is something worryingly wrong. The chances of the warmest recorded weather in Autumn then are 1 in 160 or greater. Those are odds people would take in a horse race and not be too shocked. The weather is becoming like the cricket, amazing records but all implying Climate Change/Global Warming instead of just being interesting and even nice.
Consider for example, Prince of Penzance won the Melbourne cup in 2015 at 100:1. This with a female jockey, the first female jockey to ride the winner in 150 years. In the same race Red Cadeax became the first horse in 150 years to have come second in the the race three times. So the chance of all three things happening was something was 100x150x150 or 2.5million:1. Racing Climate Change. Clearly.
11
Or my favorite and I remember this in a cricket Test, “lillee bowled dilley caught willey”. Clearly a conspiracy, like the weather.
10
TdeF:
Not the Johnstonian “The bowler is Holding the batsman’s Willey”.
00
A bit of punctuation, written or spoken, works miracles of understanding!
01
A question for Argee if I may , you have quoted this on your well read blog –
“To rectify such arrogance requires deconstructing their argument/story and providing a detailed explanation, with references, about how evolution has been found to work through 100 years of observation and experimentation – within 24 hours of being written so as not to be left unread. Then you have to deal with the denial and the further comments made from ignorance that follow.”
You believe in evolution on your blog but how does that conflict with your brainwashed ideology of the religion of CAGW ?
41
Theories are accepted or rejected based on the interpretation of the evidence at hand. Hence a theory can be both rejected and accepted at the same time depending on who is doing the interpretation (ie, person’s point of view). Hence it’s subjective. There is an exception. When the evidence is empirical and repeatable to be observed over rand over giving the same result rather than historical and so once off and never can be repeated (such as a past event – unless one has a time machine) then the theory is objectively correct. One example of an objectively correct theory is the temperature at which pure water boils under certain environmental conditions. At least that’s one theory 🙂
10
Remember when they said nothing could go faster than the speed of light and also the time when they said the smallest thing possible is an Atom .
20
Just wad ist fas(ter) wid ‘proper time’?? An Atom has how many pieces\parts?? What is ‘charge’?
00
I disagree, as temperature(n) has never been defined nor has the verb boils! Your ‘the temperature’ can only be some nonsense aggregate of some thermal noise, that has no meaning.
00
Robert. Could you please rewrite that question. I have no idea what you are actually asking.
I don’t believe in evolution. That’s like believing in clouds. Evolution is just an observation.
You then try to link a statement about evolution with some rhetorical flourishes implying some sort of conflict.
11
And while I have some time to study up on the great Argee I found this link from his blog which should make everyone here change their minds on just how scientific theories really are .
I could be wrong but I think it was aimed at second graders or maybe preps .
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/09/science/in-science-its-never-just-a-theory.html
11
No mention of hypotheses then?
32
No Annie but I have a theory about Argee
Snip
Snip
Snip
Yeah I thought that would happen.
31
Now there’s a quantum paradox. Only one box.
And only one cat. It lives. In a single box. And outside of it too!
Whose cat is it?
30
Dr Suess
30
Doesn’t his cat live in a hat?
30
Nope. And it’s not Alice’s either, grinning as it is. It does raise certain annoying philosophical points too.
30
Not the pussy-cat who sailed away for a year and a day accompanied by an owl then?
At least they prepared themselves for the voyage with money and plenty of honey.
31
When did da Cow crash inta da moon?
20
Cowzes are not equipt wid proper landing gear!
10