JoNova
A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).
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Why did the Chinese send their lander to the far side of the Moon?
First they had to launch a repeater satellite in stationary orbit to transmit commands and receive data (March 2018 I think), because their can be no direct communication with the far side. I believe that the Satellite will only be in contact with the lander 12 hours every day. Now I discover they’re growing potatoes and cotton abord the lander as an experiment. But what else are they up to?
151
Helium-3 maybe?
Several years ago I read about the potential to mine Helium-3 on the Moon and that a number of nations including the US and China are making plans for this.
Robot mining equipment would dig up Moon soil and using the long Moon days solar energy would be utilised to extract the Helium-3 and during the cold Moon nights produce Liquid Helium-3. That one space shuttle load could provide fuel to power a large electricity grid for a year.
The article referred to the Chinese referring to it was the perfect fuel.
170
Many articles on Helium-3 like this;
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/197784-china-is-going-to-mine-the-moon-for-helium-3-fusion-fuel
70
The 3He will be rather expensive to get back from the moon. China rich..US poor.
30
An article I read on line years ago explained the costs involved in a return trip shuttle expedition to the Moon, the estimated mining and processing expenses to obtain Helium-3, and the value in US$ of one space shuttle load in terms of energy obtained.
It would be a very profitable venture, apparently.
20
‘But what else are they up to?’
Rumour goes they are there to confirm or deny the existence of alien structures.
52
There’s definitely a sentient electric oven on the moon. I saw it on TV, it must be true.
60
No, microwave oven.
lol
10
With all the solar radiation in all forms you have a permanent oven there (on the sunlit side).
10
I think they are also doing some radioastronomy which can’t be done from Earth or low Earth orbit. They’ve also got some fruit-fly larvae as part of a small ‘biodome’ experiment – generating CO2 for the plants you mentioned.
The far side of the moon is much more heavily cratered than the side we see, so there’s science to be had from high resolution photography as well. I’m also pretty sure they deliberately landed in a massive impact crater, hoping it may yield a bit of info about sub-surface structure/rock-types and therefore, history of the moon. Hyperspectral cameras, and ground penetrating radar should help a lot here.
Who knows what different sorts of cheese they might find?
The project was/is a collaborative effort with a few countries, including Saudi Arabia, so maybe this could explain where Jamal Khashoggi ended up…?
90
the moon is made of Tofu
60
Only to the greens.
20
The simplest explanation is because they can. China is making its mark in space to prove to the world there’s another kid on the block and it means business. Next stop will be building a base on the moon to assist in the mining of the asteroids with or without robots.
70
Lava tubes offer the opportunity for a base camp.
https://www.universetoday.com/138261/lava-tube-openings-found-near-moons-north-pole/
40
Meteorites can have some very interesting minerals in the,
The largest crater would seem a very good place for an investigation.
62
The Chinese moon landing was caused by the Pink Floyd album, Dark Side Of The Moon…..for example the lyrics are telling….
“And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear.
And if the band you’re in starts playing different tunes
I’ll see you on the dark side of the moon.
30
Cause it is easier to fake the landing when no one on earth has direct line of sight to the actual area? 😛
(and remember kids, the Russians are in on it too, just like during the Apollo era when they kept completely silent about the fake US landings that made the USSR look weak in the face of Western Progress. Every single Russian space agency, tracking station and observatory that was monitoring the Apollo missions were in on the fake. Honest! Totally happened!)
50
Good vid taken from the lander.
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/change-4-update.html
20
Debunking the Debunker from Tony Heller.
CO2 and temperature, ice ages and ice core samples.
Yet another excellent and systematic presentation that continues the dismantling of climatism pseudo-science and its settled politics. An analysis of nonsensical climatism polemic of YouTube Potholer, an ex-BBC “journalist.”
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On target. 2 red thumbs. Every bit the round of applause and recognition my dopamine addled pleasure centres demand.
40
Aaaargh the madness, it’s driving me insane.
Madness No 1. First item on the local news was the BoM release declaring that 2018 was the third warmest year on record with both day time and night time temperatures warmer than normal.
This was IMMEDIATELY followed by an item that declared Australia had to import lemons from America. The shortage of this fruit in Aust was caused by unusually cold conditions during the growing season.
Madness No 2. Darwin markets are considering banning plastic take away food containers from the food vendors. These would be replaced with paper containers or people could bring their own plastic containers from home. How could harvesting timber to make food containers be a better environmental outcome? What happens if some one gets food poisoning ? Not my fault your Honour, the container they brought from home was dirty !
Madness No3 Victoria recently banned carry bags from being given away in supermarkets. Note the bags themselves are not banned, just the” give away” part as exactly the same bags can be purchase for $2.60 per 20 bags. The bags that are for sale according to the wrapper information contain TDPA which allows the pastic to totally degrade, so these bags are good for the environment. What is this magic additive? Well hidden in the small print is, TDPA = Totally degradable plastic additive. No one is any the wiser as to what this magic ingredient actually is. Just a few months ago anyone could take a “give away” supermarket bag and leave it in the weather for a while, and with the addition of a bit of sunlight and mechanical working these bags degraded into mainly carbon dioxide and water. I guess that is also called TDPA.
Aaaargh the madness, it’s driving me insane !
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🙂
70
Sambar:
When you reach the completely looney state you have a choice, join the Greens or go into politics….or both.
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Anti life.
31
Two articles in The Oz recently highlights this idiocy.
The first was a comment from a gent that he had disposed of over 500 old house solar systems on the local rubbish tip.
The second was the article about a drinks producer stopping the production of plastic drinking straws.
The articles made me wonder which was the most harmful to the environment in the long term.
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Of course its degrading to CO2 that is it! Bad bags gotta go! 😀
50
Little bit of extra madness from Faifaxes Hannam today. 10 of the hottest places on Earth this week arein Australia apparently. The mans a genius. Nothing on the cold spell in the northern hemisphere just hammering away at warming while its summer.
41
“CO2 Not So Much, 60 Year Cycle Paper Actually Got Published’
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/01/14/co2-not-so-much-60-year-cycle-paper-actually-got-published/
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Thanks Ian. Bit of reading there. 60-year cycle eh? Wonder how that fits in with the approx 200 year cycle.
40
Ian, Graeme,
Below is a link, from an earlier reply to Jo, of a 20 minute presentation by Professor Carl-Otto Weiss, who found that the two cycles of about 200 and 60 years are both necessary and sufficient to explain all the major climate changes over the pst several thousands of years.
I found his work compelling.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l-E5y9piHNU
Cheers,
Dave B
30
Thanks David. Will look at that.
00
2012: “WILL [GLOBAL WARMING] WIPE OUT SURFING?
… average height of waves is likely to stay the same, and may even go down a bit”
https://psmag.com/social-justice/will-climate-change-wipe-out-surfing-44209
2019: Another adverse affect of [global warming]?
Larger waves.
UC Santa Cruz researcher Borja G. Reguero is the lead author on a new report.
Upper-ocean warming is changing the global wave climate, making waves stronger
https://news.ucsc.edu/2019/01/wave-power.html
via tom nelson
80
There you go Mark: not bigger waves but more muscular ones.
40
‘Upper-ocean warming is changing the global wave climate, making waves stronger’ Theyll get bigger waves alright..mega tsunami after the next IMPACTOR!
30
thats the meme the BOM tries to sell. Less cyclones but they will be more intense. So in the short term you can explain the lower cyclone count and still so seeds of fear and uncertainty for the future. The odd intense one usually turns up so you cant reall go wrong , if not you can dissapear the comment or just shuffle you feet and look at the floor.
31
Finally, I understand why making inadvertent waves in a hot bathroom and hotter bath is sooooo easy.
30
Borja G. Reguero, you say, Mark, from Santa Cruz, huh – cool little seaside town just out of San Fran, drove through there not long after the 6.9 quake rearranged its buildings and streets – yet me wonders, I does, if Borja G. Reguero even surfs. A little after-work whisky & dry and 5 minutes on the wireless and he appears to be a Drownist, ie. we’re all gonna DROWN coz of CCCrap! “Effects of Climate Change on Exposure to Coastal Flooding in Latin America and the Caribbean” 2015, Borja G Reguero, Inigo J. Losada, Pedro Díaz-Simal, F. J. Méndez, Michael W Beck, Juan A. Añel.
Nice job if you can get it when you’re young and cruising the tropical Caribbean in search of filthy lucre…
30
Viv Forbes
The Saltbush Club
Reasons For Leaving The Paris Agreement
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/01/from-viv-forbes-10-good-reasons-to-leave-the-paris-climatewealth-transfer-agreement.html#comments
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The feminist movement is trying to justify its continuing relevance through intersectionality: everything relates to everything else relate to feminism is a crisis vote for us and send money.
The climate change folks, of course have done the same for years, without the fancy label: everything relates to climate and the sky i falling we can fix it give us control and send money.
And by the way, if you don’t agree with us you are some kind of ……ist and a bad person.
A compliant, cooperative, and often co-conspirator media has mere amplified this noise.
Facts, it appears, are the enemy of these forces, thus facts are concealed. In the world of the alarmist, much of what they “know” is
absolutely, patently, obviously untrue. The disquieting issue is the degree to which the left enthralled young are willing to buy into stupidity, eschewing simple logic or observation.
One can still hope that as they enter adulthood, and, in at least a few cases, are forced to earn a living, they will be slimed by the messy reality they now believe exists only in the imagination of the fevered right.
Groceries are expensive. If you have a job, you have to get to and from same. It’s nice to be cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Sometimes this is actually essential. Medical care is a service, delivered by people. They are not all volunteers. There are bad folks out there. They don’t care if you don’t have insurance, or can’t replace the car they stole and trashed…or the identity they stole and trashed. If you called corporations the essence of evil on you facebook page (it’ll live forever) some way not wish to hire you. You may find the minimum wage you vote for a ceiling, not a floor.
I’d wager most of the folks who frequent Jo’s virtual neighborhood and more experience than they’d like with some of life’s less pleasant lessons. Its the personal coping skill, I believe, and practical observation that make us skeptics. 20F in winter and 90F in the summer makes a few degrees in 100 years a silly thought. Many, if not most of us have moved and lived in climates farther apart that the forecast change, and grown gardens and houseplants. Most of us realize that cities are mostly rebuilt every hundred years and cope with lots of change along the way….climate might just be another. Heck, many of us had grandparents old enough to watch the change from horse to IC engine. AI fears? Most of us remember elevator and telephone operators, gas station attendents, heck, even subsistence agriculture. When you’ve seen 70-80% employment type turnover in a lifetime fears of some jobs being eliminated arent a big deal.
So above you talk of banning plastic bags, and in California they’ve banned plastic straws. The teacher’s union that has flogged illegal immigration is now on strike over overcrowding. I’d discuss leftist hypocrisy and socialist failures but there is no point preaching to the converted.
My new year’s resolution is to try to expose one young person a week to a reality they might not have seen…….
mostly I fly Young Eagles (US – EAA program to interest youth in flying). I have added a couple of environmental myths to my pre-flight briefing; then fly over the realities. I also introduce the adiabatic lapse rate: 2000 feet of elevation equals the max warming the IPCC is warning us about.
If each of us would light one little candle……
(Oh no, more carbon dioxide! like I said, everything relates to climate nowadays). lots of /sarc, of course
292
Hi,
Just a correction, it’s not a few degrees in a hundred they are carrying on about. All this stupidity is about temperature relative to the LIA of which we’ve already seen 0.9 Deg, so all the fuss is about 0.6 degrees in 100 ( using the 1.5C target) or Just 1.1 Deg in a hundred years (using the 2 Deg target)
This little bait and switch is never mentioned. The 0.6 Deg to reach the 1.5C target is a temperature rise that no person on earth could even detect.
142
All the fuss is about an indiscernible signal to noise ratio.
Holocene records up to 8000 years before present, from several ice cores show after detrending, normal distribution of difference with the centennial variation of temperature during the Holocene amounting to 0.98 ± 0.27℃ (Lloyd PJ 2015).
Business as usual.
Unsettle the settled politics.
40
‘….an indiscernible signal to noise ratio.’
Very good, I’ll borrow that.
10
Well i’d put it this way – how many left wing countries have been really successful? ( including the failed Soviet of California )
The defence rests.
80
wWWWWWait: 9-19-2016 A new study by scientists at Stanford University, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, tested whether hotter temperatures and higher carbon dioxide levels that we’ll see post-2050 will benefit the kinds of plants that live in California grasslands. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2016/sep/19/new-study-undercuts-favorite-climate-myth-more-co2-is-good-for-plants
So,~30 years from now, let me guess, no, I P C C…, sometimes reduced to “Where did we go wrong?
30
“Getting Gas (and Electrons) Across America”
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/01/15/getting-gas-and-electrons-across-america/
Some calculations on the needs for EV’s to happen towards the end of the text, summarised as
“It ain’t going to happen”
80
I read an article some time ago regarding a company in India, Mahindra & Mahindra, that had at the time acquired an EV manufacturer rival, Mahindra have many business interests including motor vehicle manufacturing and farm machinery. They also own a commuter aircraft manufacturing business in Sale, Victoria.
One Mr Mahindra was quoted, regarding the future of EV he said the company did not expect EV to replace ICEV but would gain a significant niche market in cities where ICE emissions are a health problem.
90
Maybe areas of subsidy help. Another test –
“Fall Leaf sales fall: Nissan Leaf sales collapse in Ontario after incentive axed”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/14/fall-leaf-sales-fall-nissan-leaf-sales-collapse-in-ontario-after-incentive-axed/
80
Yes, well if you think about it, what is an electric car but a portable very large mobile phone charger?
Its a lot easier to just carry a wall wart….
30
Lost power , warmists waste from sun and wind,
Is costly and to save the grid is binned.
The sphinx, once weathered by torrential rain,
Would indicate a wet and green terrain.
Renewables are pushed no matter what,
Regardless of the rising price per watt.
Australia blindly joined the Paris pact,
A foolish, costly and a pointless act.
More warmists now don’t mind being called, denier,
For turning skeptic after they retire.
100
good day to all. https://balance10.blogspot.com/2019/01/does-holocaust-slogan-never-again-apply.html
10
AEMO made it through another hot day yesterday, with no reported blackouts.
But why oh why did every generator in Vic/SA/Tas receive $200/MWhr, NSW $184, Qld $112, when most of them just continued to do what they do every day, provide reliable power for $80-100/MWhr?
OK, someone had to step in to provide the peak of 33.5 GW compared to the normal peak of 26 GW, and they should be compensated.
But every generator gets to join the party.
For the record, to meet the peak, coal supplied 20 GW, gas 5 GW, hydro 5 GW, wind 1 GW, solar 1 GW, other gas 1.5 GW.
And to show one example of the money tree, Lydell in NSW that AGL plans to close, yesterday reliably delivered 1680 MW through the day, and averaged 1500 MW for the 24 hours, so they pocketed $6.6 million – not bad for a day’s work.
200
Politicians are counting on the majority of voters remaining poorly informed about electricity supply and continuing to accept the “transition to renewable energy” sales and marketing hyperbole and puffery.
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But what will happen when reality raises it’s ugly head and the grid fails completely. No amount of marketing or puffery will be able hide the truth.
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Well, we will be in a wonderful position to say: “We told you so, now fix it properly.”
I don’t know if anyone will be wanting to laugh at it, though.
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I’d be asking every old folks home that anyone here may have relatives in, do they have tested & functioning back up generators?
60
When it happens they won’t be listening to the likes of us.
More likely we’ll be blamed for having spent years obstructing their passage and steps will be taken to shut down any further dissent from their program such as, say, disrespecting the carbon dioxide cacodoxy will be legislated as hate speech or some such.
20
They can try……
00
Also, AGL Limited acquired Liddell Power Station free of charge when they also acquired nearby Bayswater Power Station for an amount of money I cannot remember.
Liddell and Bayswater share a coal mine and water storage.
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I posted this in another thread but here it is again. AGL are proposing to replace Liddel with wind solar and gas. Where will the extra power to run the windmills come from?
http://www.aweo.org/windconsumption.html
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That article should be distributed Ian
30
I found it in one of Green Powers posts on Facebook. Luckily I copied the URL as the post was deleted on the Facebook feed. I tried looking for it on Google it was buried on the 4th page of results. DuckDuckGo had it as the second item on the first page.
Giles et al at Renew Economy never seem to include the power requirements of windmills in any of their articles. No doubt they think that solar could produce the power to get them running but what would happen at night.
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That’s taken care of: SA has a big storage battery 🙂
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I presume you are being sarcastic about the local storage of around 6 minutes.
120
Sarcastic?
Moi? 🙂
You, sir, presume correctly.
80
Now if we lined up all the EVs in the country, we could use them to jumpstart the windmills….oh hang on…..
60
The RAN could assist if the French Barracuda Nuclear Submarines were purchased and not requiring them to be redesigned as a conventional diesel-electric powered version.
Better still, to be purchasing US made Nuclear Submarines and explain to France and other EU members that our main allies are members of ANZUS.
30
One, not insignificant problem with nuke subs would be manning them – we have no core expertise. We would need to have USN crews for the reactors and the debacle of the USS Fitzgerald collision does not inspire confidence in USN training.
00
Another hot day with peak demand trending towards 33 GW, and prices early afternoon already above $200/MWhr except Qld at $150.
NSW is feeling the pressure: Per AEMO – From 1530 hrs to 1700 hrs 17/01/2019.
The forecast capacity reserve requirement is 889 MW.
The minimum capacity reserve available is 734 MW.
60
It’s interesting how sensitive electricity demand is to temperature. Cool change has hit Melb this afternoon going from high to low 20s, and Vic demand has dropped from 7.1 to 6.6 GW in just a couple of hours. Temps in the 30’s for tomorrow, and AEMO forecasts peak demand at 8.3 GW late afternoon. Spot prices have dropped back to $120/MWhr currently.
Meanwhile in Adelaide, temps in high 30s, and demand currently at 2.5 GW and climbing to 2.8 GW around 5pm.
Sydney is feeling the heat, with demand still rising towards 13.5 GW, and prices $250+. That’s a lot more demand, for not much more population.
As Tony has pointed out a lot of that demand is commercial buildings and industry, not residential.
00
So lets say only the winner gets the prize for the “extra” power.
What are the others motivated to do then?
I would suggest lower output and wait for prices to rise and game the system a la the Horndale Battery.
As long as it operates on the margin for extreme demand days I can see the logic. Its really just fulfilling supply and demand, but with a half pike and twist to stop reticence on base supply.
00
The linked report from ARENA concedes that intermittent power generation needs to be coupled with storage. The word “firming” is is now in common use and the acronym VRE (for Variable Renewable Energy) is the politically correct term for intermittents:
https://arena.gov.au/assets/2018/10/Comparison-Of-Dispatchable-Renewable-Electricity-Options-ITP-et-al-for-ARENA-2018.pdf
From page vii in Summary:
A major step forward is the acknowledgement on page 60 that LCOE has been used in a “misleading manner” to compare different generating technologies.
The formula used for LCOE on page 60 does not make sense with the nominated units. I have asked the authors for a worked example.
Figure 17 on page 63 is similar to what I have determined. It shows there is an optimum mix for collection relative to storage for a given storage period.
Also figure 19 on page 69 is not far from what I have determined for solar PV/battery with significant storage. The LCOE axis stops at $600/MWh and that corresponds with 20 hours storage for a home system or 35 hours for a grid system.
On page 87 it acknowledges the lower utilisation of dispatchable generators in competition with intermittents having priority market access forces up the cost of dispatchable generation. Fundamentally the estimated cost of $78/MWh for coal generators at high utilisation increases as utilisation falls below the 85% used for that calculation.
On page 107 it concludes that buffered intermittents (so-called firmed VRE) cannot generate enough value to proceed without subsidy.
Looking through this report I conclude that the wholesale price could settle around $200/MWh if the transition goes as well as hoped. Just 10 years ago the wholesale price averaged around $35/MWh.
The report acknowledges some of the issues I have raised that need serious analysis. It actually uses run time generating data from intermittents rather than just capacity factors to arrive at the optimum level of storage. I believe this is a first for any report from this mob and their mates at CSIRO and AEMO.
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Rick/Jo. This seems worthy of a separate article, that should then be sent to all politicians.
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Variable creates the impression that you have control and can vary it as you would like. Varying would be more accurate.
10
My main issue is using the term “renewable” when talking about intermittents – they are not so this word conveys the incorrect meaning.
00
Well, twelve comments so far, and they all look interesting.
Started with Sambar and then Richard I and they helped to highlight what those guiding our lives believe is the most important aspect of CO2 Induced Man Made Global Warming.
Before anything else, the content from the two posts is about the many petty intrusions into our lives that we have been forced to comply with and endure. Just one, the plastic bag thing at supermarkets, has been a big issue in Australia but the solution serves two purposes.
First, the political class gets to demonstrate their concern for the environment, while perhaps the most important part is that the supermarket chains get to sell the carry bag/ bin liner that was formerly free.
The cost of all those carry bags has been dumped on the customer and the bin liners purchased as replacement are now white instead of grey. There’s mischief there.
But, the main issue described by Sambar and Richard is . . Control.
By having us jump and squirm over what are petty and irrational things, we haven’t the time or energy to put on our Yellow Vests and really confront the mismanagement, the manipulation the blatant disdain that passes for governance.
The intrusion and government pettiness in our lives Is Not Sustainable, we are being led in circles while here in Australia we have had water rations and stupid rooftop collection systems instead of dams, blackouts and industry loss because of a failure to build up to date electricity generators.
In yesterday’s Australian newspaper, an education minister, Dan Tehan, laments the chaos and indiscipline in the nation’s schools as being due to inadequate teacher training: nothing further needs saying on that one.
The LGBTQIR “supporters” who have done so much harm to those they are supposed to be helping.
Just hope and pray that in 2019 we can turn politics in this country around and get rid of LabaGrines and LiblNothings.
We need leadership but all we have is Control exerted over us.
KK
162
Summed up beautifully KK. The focus on minutia and the completely trivial distracts everyone from the end game. What is the end game, I don’t know but the primary suspect is ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, and like laying a train line from Sydney to Perth you get there one sleeper at a time. It takes years but in the end the goal is reached.
Whittle away some little freedom from this generation and the next doesn’t even know it existed. Is there hope? Well my legacy to Oz is two beautiful and smart (very smart ) grand daughters. I hammer them with think, think, think for yourself, question everything, nothing is as it seems. Have I had any success, well the eldest at 13 years did the Ned Kelly myth at school. Poor Ned, just a victim of oppression and racism truly a hero of the little man. Just one prompt from grumpy and a few days later her research had shown that Ned the hero actually was the same Ned the murderer. Did not go down well with the teacher.
I will keep tearing sleepers up, one sleeper at a time, my grand kids will be able to think for themselves, popular or not.
131
Agreed. I’m happily destroying the govts sponsored PC disinformation every day.
My smart daughter will eat the lefties alive….
CAGW – cant be proven sceintifically
“Born that way” – cant be proven scientifically.
– trashed regualrly with sound logic and reasoning and science.
We are part of the science “Resistsance” whether we like it or not.
11
September, 2006 – Turnbull repeatedly says the Australian people should be paying more for water, and his plan will make it happen.
“Water has been too cheap…Just compare, if you are living in Sydney or Melbourne, or Brisbane, for that matter, compare your water bill to your electricity bill and you’ll see what I mean. Urban water has been too cheap.” 43,44,45
1st November, 2006 – Turnbull announces his plan to waste taxpayers money on taking water from productive Aussie farmers in the Murray-Darling basin, and putting it back into the river so it can uselessly flow out to sea. All for the sake of “the environment”. Turnbull says:
“…the share [of water] allocated to agriculture versus the environment has been excessive and what we’ve done…By regulating the river Murray we have turned it on its head.”
The move will lower production and increase food prices for consumers, forcing them to switch to imports.
18th November, 2006 – The federal National Party support the Victorian state Liberal-National Opposition’s plan for a dam on the Maribyrnong River, but Turnbull declines to support the dam when given an opportunity, instead saying:
“We have to increase the share of city water supplies that aren’t climate-dependent.” 46,47
22nd November, 2006 – Turnbull releases a report that effectively rules out building new dams, even predicting some will be completely dry by 2008 due to so-called “anthropogenic global warming”. The report cites the “Wentworth Group” as an authoritative source, even though the group was founded and funded by the radical green World Wildlife Fund (WWF).
Further, Turnbull again says people must pay far higher prices for water so that the necessary capital can be raised to construct expensive desalination plants and recycling facilities, which aren’t dependent on so-called ”anthropogenic global warming”.48
Turnbull also pushes household water rationing with tradability, yet another regulation that would push up the cost of water.49
100
Around that period 2006-2009 the Queensland State Labor Government took over control of town water supplies from local government, small dams and barrages, water pipelines provided using ratepayer’s monies in decades past.
A friend from Maryborough Queensland explained to me how successful their town water supply system was including providing farmers with irrigation water. And that there were no water rates and related water meters. Until Beattie Labor stepped in and ratepayers were billed for installation of water meters and water usage. With no reduction in council rates.
80
Same thing in Newcastle. Local investment made a ward of the state and bled dry by Sydney.
Our dams then used to supply water to adjacent zones which hadn’t bothered
This is communism where the results of your efforts are taken and used to buy votes elsewhere.
KK
111
But first must come the guilt. You can’t get people to willingly submit to control until they have been made feel guilty.
The campaigns where “they” urge us to conserve or fry are all done with that in mind.
00
Ken Stewart finds another very inconvenient pause to annoy the CAGW alarmists. I think Jo could use this as a new post to further a wider discussion about their so called co2 control knob.
Of course the very long ice-core peer reviewed data shows co2 as a follower of temp and not the driver. And co2 follows after hundreds and sometimes thousands of years according to that data.
Just another very inconvenient truth that Gore ignored or failed to understand.
https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2019/01/15/another-inconvenient-pause/#comment-24736
81
Richard Lindzen said some time ago, the lag was approximately 800 years.
Therefore, we would have had this increase in CO2 regardless of whether or not we were burning carbon and hydro-carbon fuels. The modern CO2 increase is the CO2 out-gassing from the oceans caused by the Medieval Warming … our SUVs aren’t to blame at all!
🙂
141
how?
31
Woods Hole
http://www.whoi.edu/news-release/the-long-memory-of-the-pacific-ocean
50
How?
It’s really really complicated so I will make this simple for you.
Some scientists took a big—really big—drilling machine down to Antarctica.
They used it to cut out a very long (deep) ice core.
It’s called the Vostok Core after the place in Antarctica where they set up their big drill.
They analysed the ice core.
From their analysis: —this is the complicated part—
– they measured the temperature and calculated the trend(s) over the years contained in the core from the data.
– they measured the CO2 content in the core ice for each of those temperature measurements. and recorded that trend.
—end of the complicated part.
– they then graphed both trends.
– Dr Lindzen obviously looked at both graphs and spotted the 800 year difference.
The temperature and CO2 measurements are the complicated part. It involves using a special machine called a mass spectrometer to measure some atomic isotopes trapped in the ice like Beryllium. You can look up how mass spectrometers work on Wikipedia. They’re very useful devices…
Did you think Dr Lindzen and the others just waved Magic Wands?
Nah, sorry; they used real science.
81
So they did, but… the evidence that CO2 is a greenhouse gas depends on physics, not on the correlation with past temperature, which tells us nothing about cause and effect. For instance those ice ages are correlated to Milankovitch cycles.
49
” the evidence that CO2 is a greenhouse gas depends on physics”
Its a radiative gas,
and its used in greenhouses to enhance plant growth
There is no empirical evidence and no real physics that allows enhanced atmospheric CO2 to cause warming
Warming by enhanced atmospheric CO2 has never been observed or measured anywhere on the planet.
93
A greenhouse works by blocking convection,
CO2 does not block convection.
93
CO2 absorbs in a tiny thing band only, then thermalises to the remaining 99.96% of the atmosphere when convection and all other energy movements take care of it .
It has been shown that ENHANCED CO2 does not change the IR atmospheric opacity, and it certainly doesn’t change the rate of convection, therefore CO2 cannot cause any warming of the atmosphere.
There is absolutely no evidence that it does.
It is a myth, a fairy-tale to scare the gullible globalist.
83
Earth is already a perfect greenhouse.
20
PF: Here’s the Physics. See if you can understand it.
21
I note that no one has replicated the experiment by Dr. Thomas Allmendinger, but there has been a lot of criticism of the apparatus, particularly the use of glad wrap to make what is essentially a glasshouse.
42
Fitz, you’re at it again. However, you still haven’t responded to my challenge of 12 January 2019. Remember this?
Fitz, getting the science method back-to-front, mumbles:
Sceptical Sam responds:
“You say you’re a scientist. If true, you should know that since it is you who asserts the catastrophic man-made global warming hypothesis it’s for you to provide the evidence.
And until you do so the Null hypothesis applies.
Just remember your science method. That is: in science the hypothesis must explain all (repeat all) observed data. The CAGW hypothesis does not achieve that hurdle.
I challenge you to show the evidence that
man-madeCO2 (man-made and natural) increases global average temperature exclusive of all other variables.”Your lack of response to my challenge is a clear demonstration that you can’t find the evidence that supports your nonsense. Hence the Null hypothesis applies.
You’ve now been introduced to the Allmendinger paper which confirms the Null hypothesis. The best you can do is whinge about replication.
31
I will refer to the UN IPCC, the work by NASA, the Australian Government Climate website, the BOM and the 34 Scientific Academies, Sceptical Sam. By the way I am not nor are most scientists saying the C02 is the sole driver, that is your very own straw man.
34
There is absolutely ZERO empirical evidence that atmospheric CO2 effects climate in any way whatsoever.
Calls to “AGW authority” are not just BAD science, they are NON-science.
That is you clutching at your only straw.
Facts, evidence… you have NONE. !!
Just your mindless DENIAL of natural climate variability. ie CLIMATE DENIAL.
43
And we are all STILL WAITING for some empirical evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2.
So far the best you have come up with is some tiny increase in IR radiation caused by an El Nino (Feldman)
SURELY by now you MUST have found something !!!!
33
“By the way I am not nor are most scientists saying the C02 is the sole driver,”
Ok putz, what percentage climate driver do ALL these esteemed AGWers say CO2 is ??
Please list as many as you can. 🙂
33
Greenhouse gases are those that absorb and emit infrared radiation in the wavelength range emitted by Earth. In order, the most abundant greenhouse gases in Earth’s atmosphere are:
Water vapor and clouds H2O 10–50,000(A) 36–72%
Carbon dioxide CO2 ~400 9–26%
Methane CH4 ~1.8 4–9%
Ozone O3 2–8(B) 3–7%
Traces of these also contribute
Nitrous oxide (N2O)
Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs)
Hydrofluorocarbons (incl. HCFCs and HFCs)
this is lifted from Shindell et al. (2005)
50
roflmao
HUGE margins..
probably from a huge number of erroneous models.
and backed up by ZERO actual science
You fall for every little piece of junk-science there is.. Don’t you !!
And how wide is the H2O band compared to CO2?
TOTALLY DOMINANT, because CO2 does NOTHING.
32
Molecular species are identified as greenhouse gases (ghg) by the property that they absorb/emit EMR at wavelengths of significant terrestrial radiation (approximately 6-100 microns (µm).
CO2 absorbs/emits at only one wavelength in that range (15 µm broadened at sea level to about 14-16 µm by pressure, etc.).
Water vapor molecules, however, have, according to a count reported in a 1938 paper (Astrophysical Journal, June 1938, v 87, no 8, p 499) “about 170 lines in the range 75-550 cm-1” [133-18.2 µm].
Global average WV at sea level is approximately 1.5% = 15,000 ppmv while CO2 is only 505 ppmv so there are approximately 15000/505 = 29.7 times as many WV molecules as CO2 molecules.
Thus in the typical case, there are 29.7 X 170 ≈ 5100 absorption/emission ‘opportunities’ for WV plus one opportunity for CO2 for a total of 5101.
If you double the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, the number of opportunities increases to 5102. The resultant increase in warming effect (if any) is (5102-5101)/5101 = 0.000196.
This increase of about 0.02% is insignificant, and does not even take into account that the lower atmosphere is GOVERNED by convection and conduction.
42
Shindell et al 2005: uses the GISS climate model —it’s not empirical. Allmendinger’s effort is purely empirical. Allmendinger also did not have Gavin I-fiddle-the-data included as an et al. Bad luck. Paper rejected.
No other Replication is good news: it implies thorough work on the part of the author—all aspects properly discussed and dealt with, and no obvious mistakes. In other words, there’s nothing to spark controversy and make the effort to replicate worthwhile.
Know your materials: the plastic film used is made from polyethylene which is IR transparent and the film is 0.01mm thick—<sarc>having a massive thermal intertia and gradient!</sarc> So what if each tube is effectively a greenhouse? If greenhouse gases do their supposed job, each atmosphere—and several were used—would respond differently to the same insolation. None did. (The author used different `atmospheres’ through the experiment, which is proper empirical practice: ordinary air (with water vapour), synthetic air (no water vapour), pure CO2 etc. No differences in temperatures,)
Result: There were no measurable effects.
Ergo, Greenhouse gases don’t greenhouse.
61
Fitz says:
Thanks. I thought you might. However, that body of work is open to allegations of serious corruption – as you know. In addition it is substantially based on “models”. Models that don’t work. Models, of which some 90 odd are needed to calculate an average that still fails to forecast the real world outcome:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/90-CMIP5-models-vs-observations-with-pause-explanation.png
Fitz then goes on to say:
Straw man? Nope. Read it again and think before shooting from the hip.
This is what I said:
“I challenge you to show the evidence that
man-madeCO2 (man-made and natural) increases global average temperature exclusive of all other variables.”Nothing there about “sole driver” is there?
Now, show us the evidence of how CO2 increases global average temperatures. If CO2 can’t do it by itself, then show us how it does it in combination with all other variables.
10
“For instance those ice ages are correlated to Milankovitch cycles.” Some parts are, So therefore what has the GHG theory got to do with that?
CO2 are irrelevant and have 0 effect.
40
Thanks theRealUniverse,
You saved me having to say it.
20
‘For instance those ice ages are correlated to Milankovitch cycles.’
Yes but more importantly the Medieval Warm Period and Roman Warm Period were universal and warmer than now, and CO2 was lower. Its plain to see there is no connection between temperatures and CO2.
20
Here’s some data for you on the 800 year CO2 lag from the Vostok Ice core.
As part of your research into `how’ this NASA video about the Thermohaline Ocean Conveyor shows how Hansen’s Temperatures and the CO2 hide in the deep ocean.
You should know how to use an Internet Search Engine by now. So you can complete the research.
40
The Vostok core is a great tool, but it is only one location, and at that location the gases are well mixed but the temperature is not.
This is shown in the WAIS core which shows that the increase in CO2 likely lagged the increase in regional Antarctic temperature by less than 400 yr and that even a short lead of CO2 over temperature cannot be excluded. This result, consistent for both CO2 records, implies a faster coupling between temperature and CO2 than previous estimates, which had permitted up to millennial-scale lags.
2 sites, 2 different results.
51
You have a problem. If your CO2 theory drives the temperature, WHAT drives the CO2 levels? BEFORE the temp , if that was true.
Pre-iceage industrial alien developments?
40
Sophocles and Neville, I have published papers using GCMS, ICPMS and LCMS, so I have a fair idea of what an MS is and how to best deploy it.
Let me flesh out my “How” – which followed directly one of your statements and rewrite it to stand alone.
What is the mechanism for the 800years lag between air temperature and release of CO2?
42
Gee Aye,
You have asked a question in a manner which suggests common sense at work. Such is never the case for the commenter lurking above you.
As to the apparent difference in reaction time of 800 years, and assuming the two are linked:
I would have to discount the atmosphere as being involved given that the diurnal bulge and air movement gives good mixing in a period of a few days or weeks.
Ocean turnover, what little I know about it can send large masses of water away from the surface for very long periods. Perhaps melting ice water heads towards the ocean deep and pushes old water up.
The oceans also are the main holder of available CO2 so it would seem to link oceans to the 800 year lag.
Just a start.
KK
51
‘What is the mechanism for the 800years lag between air temperature and release of CO2?’
Ocean Heat Content?
20
Ah, thank you GA. That’s better.
I don’t know. I understand it has something to do with the Global Thermohaline Circulation which is very cold (c. 4°C +/- a tiny amount of hiding heat) and CO2 rich, but I haven’t come across anything which points the finger and says “this is why” myself. But then, neither have I gone looking for it.
I can speculate so don’t take too much of this as gospel:
There is over 52 times the atmospheric CO2 dissolved in the oceans at all times. That load is taken up by cooling surface water. One sink is like that off the coast of Greenland (west of Iceland), which is pretty cold (termination of the Gulf Stream Current from the Caribbean) So the water will take up a CO2 load as it sinks. The colder things are there, the bigger the load, ie the amount going into the THC can vary.
Now, the North Atlantic cools quickly when Global Cooling begins, so it could haul surplus CO2 out of the air fairly quickly.
I haven’t seen any figures for the time the THC takes to circulate so I can’t say how that would help quantify the lag.
Cool to cold seas where the THC rises to the surface would make less CO2 emitted, (eg the spot near the Galapagos Islands where cold nutrient rich water rises to the surface) and the warmer the SSTs are there, I suggest the more out gassing there is.
Submarine volcanism may feature too. The U of Colorado Volcano Centre estimates a global population of c. a million submarine volcanoes. Many of the known ones (like most of the Pacific atolls) are a couple of thousand metres above the ocean floor, so plumes of hot water may easily make the surface for those which are erupting. There are no figures for how many are erupting at any one time, only estimates, as far as I can tell. Obviously not many are going off at any one time or the oceans would be at the temperatures of popular hot springs. However, CO2 additions from volcanic activity have long been played down or minimized because it’s very hard to measure (claimed) for aerial volcanoes . Measurements from Mt Katla in Iceland have forced a re-evaluation of that.
If you do find out, and it varies from my speculation, let me know, you’ve got me interested.
20
How?
I’d have thought that a look at Henry’s Law would give an adequate explanation.
Cheers,
Dave B
62
bad answer
36
David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz,
Excellent answer, though for CO2 it is modified slightly as CO2 chemically reacts with the water and other dissolved minerals, and biological uptake. However the basic Henry’s Law is close enough for government work 🙂
The oceans and seas hold 50 times the CO2 held in the atmosphere. The hotter the oceans and seas the more CO2 is liberated from the oceans, the cooler the oceans and seas the more CO2 is drawn into the liquid water environments. The Biological Pump and Solubility Pump governing the take-up and release of CO2 are quite temperature sensitive. 🙂
50
How to prevent deaths on the roads and protect pedestrians and push bike riders.
Instate a law that every automobile requires a person walking 10 meters in front of the vehicle carrying a red flag. This will warn people that a vehicle is coming. I am sure any one of our “progressive” governments would be willing to adopt this radical “new” idea. And wouldn’t the red flag be so…um, symbolic of our progression. Or maybe just go for the horse and buggy, because there is so much horse shit around now, who who know the difference?
81
Jack!
You can’t mention that!
It will remind people that
“Idiotic laws CAN be over-ruled”
70
I was asked a question that in a way, related to the difference between Load Curves for Summer and Winter, and how the dip between the morning and main evening Peaks in Winter all but disappears, so it’s worth explaining that.
The Load curves for Winter and Summer are different, and that’s not something new, as they have always been like that. It’s more pronounced in the cooler and Winter Months, with a definite morning peak, and then the dip, sometimes quite pronounced, and then the rise to the larger evening Peak. In Summer, it has always been the case, that it rises from that 4AM low to the usual morning peak, and then sometimes there may be a small dip, but in the middle part of Summer, it just keeps rising during the day, and that evening Peak while still there, is overcome by the rise during the day. More often than not, in the mid Summer, that main peak for the day moves back in time closer to 3PM. This can be seen right now when you look at the AEMO data, especially for the State with far and away the largest power consumption here in Oz, New South Wales. (NSW) That main peak for the day is now sometimes back at around 3 to 4PM.
What needs to be realised here is that power consumption is in three sectors, Residential, Commerce and Industry. and here in Oz, that residential sector is sometimes the smallest consumer. So, in NSW, power consumption is highest in that early afternoon period. A lot of that has specifically to do with what is happening in the State Capital, Sydney, and yes, it is air conditioning, but not in the residential sector.
Here you also need to understand air conditioning.
Look at the Sydney skyline, and and also keep in mind the other major cities in NSW. Each of those high rise buildings has a huge Air Unit on the roof. The prime purpose of that Unit is to recirculate breathing air throughout that high rise, and they run day and night all year round. They provide the ONLY recirculating air into and out of those buildings. Keep in mind that, unlike home aircon Units rated in KiloWatts, these Units are rated sometimes as high as MegaWatts, so infinitely larger than home air Units, by factors of hundreds and more.
As that air is recirculated throughout those buildings, it is ‘conditioned’, and to save on costs they are usually set at the same temperature all year round, hence it ‘feels’ warm in Winter and cool in Summer. All that happens is that twice a year, the cycle is reversed, from cool to warm, and then back to cool again. Now the fans run all the time to recirculate the air, and the compressors start up when the temp is outside the ‘Klixon’ limit settings.
In Summer, the outside ambient is hotter, when compared with inside, and look at the huge glass coverage of those high rises, hence the inside heats up pretty quickly, and because of that those huge electrical power consumers, the compressors are on and running flat out for longer periods during the Summer, than during the Winter, when the difference between outside and inside temps is a lot lower.
So, THAT is where the huge Summer power consumption comes into play. Not really much at all to do with household airconditioning, but the huge power consumption in major cities, SOLELY from those high rise buildings.
Now, again think about that Base Load, the overnight minimum power consumption, and why it is so high, and here in OZ, it AVERAGES 18000MW a day across the whole year. Now, there is no heat or cooling required at 4AM in those mainly unoccupied buildings. HOWEVER, the air still has to be recirculated throughout them all, as they are NEVER turned off, hence those fans are running all the time, on the roofs of every single high rise in Australia, every tall building in every town small medium and large city, and every State Capital.
So, while the high power consumption may be put down to airconditioning, people are looking at the wrong place here. It’s not in private homes with tiny Units (by comparison) but those high rise building, and hey, just try and turn THEM off. The building will be uninhabitable in minutes. They HAVE to be kept in operation.
I hope you can see this point here. It’s one I have been trying to explain for more than ten years now, usually falling on deaf ears becuase people prefer to believe the ‘green’ meme of home aircon being the culprit.
Tony.
190
Thanks Tony.
Many, many years ago I was on the roof of the old Myers building (6 stories) in Adelaide where there was a huge airconditioning unit.
I was told it was a cooling only unit with the air circulation. In summer it ran all the time during the day (starting before opening to cool the building a little) but in winter the cooling didn’t come on until 2-3 hours after they opened. The lights (this was before LEDs ) and the people were enough to warm the building.
————————————-
These huge buildings nowadays would also have to add some new air into the mix (5-10%) otherwise all those breathing out all that CO2 would raise the level inside to 550 or even 600ppm and we “know” that mankind cannot survive such concentrations (sarc/)
120
The difference between the Winter and Summer Load Curves at around 3PM can be anything up to 10000MW, and higher.
In Summer, the outside ambient can be in the high 30s, and the inside is set to around 20. All the glass focuses the outside heat inside, so the Compressors are working overtime in Summer, on for virtually all daylight hours, trying to keep the inside temperature to the set temperature.
In Winter, and now set to warming, those compressors may only work for an hour or so in the mornings. The outside ambient warms up, the glass focuses the heat, and the inside is warmed up naturally, so the compressors don’t need to work anywhere near as hard, hence, considerably lower power consumption in Winter.
Tony.
140
We try to keep CO2 levels in our U.S. Navy submarines no higher than 8,000 parts per million, about 20 time current atmospheric levels. Few adverse effects are observed at even higher levels. – Senate testimony of Dr. William Happer,
80
On my own topic, governments and public servants and the Greens seem to determined to stop change. They stop everything from traffic to bridges to fishing to living on the beach. They call themselves Progressives.
Climate Change, natural or not has to be stopped. You do this by inflating everyone’s electricity bills to give their money to overseas companies to buy and own windmills and to the middle classes to buy solar panels. You then force the population to pay super high rates to these same people for equipment for which we have already paid but they own. Now that shuts down refining, smelting, disposal or plastics and recycling, electric public transport and even the public services offices because there is no electricity to run them. Soon they will shut down farming, because farts will be illegal or at least heavily taxed and ruminants output masses of methane. If they could, they would stop our biggest exports, coal and iron ore. We can all ride locally and sustainable sourced wooden bicycles on dirt tracks, as the Aboriginals did.
Or we could change this land of droughts and flooding rains to use one to counter the other. Store the water. New dams (banned), new pipelines (banned), new catchment areas (banned, unless a National Park, see dams)
Or we could Terraform, flood Lake Eyre. Build concrete low loss or underground channels or pipes. Store water. Prevent the loss of crops and drought and water proof the country.
We lack the mountains to harvest the very wet tropical air, so build them. Rather take advantage of free solar to heat black strips and produce updrafts, clouds and rainfall from the new water sources like Lake Eyre and the brilliant green giant Goyder region (north of Lake Eyre, Channel Country). Sure, we might create a drought over the Pacific, but it is wet enough.
Where are the ideas, Rudd’s plan for 2020 to change the country for the better. All we are doing is shutting the place down. Now the papers are full of stories of drought, once again. Surprise. Surprise.
What have we done since the last drought? Bickered over the little bit of water we have. Now we allocate blame.
When will we as a country do what we set out to do, change the place for the better. That however is illegal as we stay an open cut mine and become tourist destination for our coal and gas and iron ore and uranium and wheat and wool clients. The unions themselves are becoming irrelevant as they shut down all businesses which might employ them.
So it goes on while our do nothing governments try to please minorities to the detriment of all. Yes, we might get Snowy II. It is probably being built for no reason simply because no one dares stop the insanity. Just like our desalination plants which may eventually be used simply because we have no dams. A banana republic.
191
It was interesting to read one of the headline articles in The Australian a couple of days ago regarding the CFMMEU protest calling for equality in labour hire.
The Trade Union Royal Commission into governance and corruption inquiries were told about union owned labour hire businesses that employed foreign workers on 457 work visa and paid them below award wages.
Clients included Chiquita Mushrooms in WA, but there were many others.
Former AWU executive Bill Shorten, who helped the foreigners to establish GetUp here and later became a GetUp Director, later a Cabinet Minister for Labor Government, was apparently involved in negotiations to have 457 visa requirement standard lowered for the benefit of those labour hire businesses.
111
TdeF you are confusing hindsight with foresight. Our founding fathers had the foresight, railway lines everywhere, inland ports, Snowy Mountain schemes, Lake Eildon built to utilize the skills developed by the Snowy teams, irrigation schemes that channel water from the high country to damn near the S.A. border all gravity fed.
Replaced by hindsight, look what we have done to the environment. Oh the anguish. Well what have we done to the bloody environment. GREEN PRODUCTIVE LANDS. Food for millions, potential to share wealth with anyone willing to work. Yes, without doubt some animal species have suffered, equally without doubt some animal species have prospered.
Greens / Environmentalist believe the only environment that ever existed is the one they see today, with their eyes. Nothing remains static whether humans are involved or not.
60
We need foresight. Agreed. See my other posts for suggestions.
However the ‘Progressive’ Greens recast everything as evil. Where would the Britons be without 400 years of the Romans? Where would the Romans be without the Greeks? etc.
England is covered in the result of 2,000 years of intensive farming. Those green and pleasant lands would be rubbish without clearance, fence and road and bridge building and a love of the landscape.
So the Progressives want to stop everything and claim their food is stolen. Meat is murder and believe it or not, milk is p*ostitution. Complete nut jobs, many of them. Very susceptible people in thrall to some very calculating people who tell them that agriculture is evil, farmers are evil, manufacturing is very evil and everyone else is evil. Of course the carbon cycle is evil, especially black dirty carbon and CO2.
100
I remember well the 2008 Australia 2020 summit. Our best and brightest, like actress Cate Blanchett (Carbon Cate) on the committee and Professor Timothy Flannery, renowned mammologist who was head of the incredible Climate Commission, with no science qualifications in the subject. Penny Wong was also co chair of Climate and Sustainability.
So what came from it? A Republic? A new deal for aborigines? A plan to deal with droughts and flooding rains?
Nothing.
181
Carbon Cate who acted and presented in a commercial for the Labor Government on climate change and/or carbon tax featuring the image of a coal fired power station that was operating in England before strict Environment Protection Agency regulations were created during the 1970s.
Much more than water vapour, dark smoky emissions too.
Scary!
sarcasm
110
‘Carbon cate’ . . . .I just love it !
Regards GeoffW
80
Also walking the attack oodles along the beach in Melbourne, I was struck that the water was less than 2 metres lower than the road, even though the tide was out. In a lifetime, I have not seen the water on the road. In fact on a slowly sloping beach, the tides look to be in exactly the same position as they were 50 years ago. (my point being that the slope would translate into a large horizontal movement for a minimal vertical movement. ). So no change at all.
Perhaps the ABC could send a team to investigate why the whole suburb is not under water after 30 years of rapid sea rise. In fact someone could wrongfully conclude that there was no change in the sea level in a lifetime, remembering some of the places built on the sand have been there since 1850.
Is it possible that Robyn Williams, former ABC science guru, physicist and Tom Jones impersonator might need to revise his 100 metres in 100 years projection. Otherwise the entire suburb would be 28 meters under water by now. Ok, halve it. 14 metres under water. Like Circular Quay in Sydney.
162
I have used a boat ramp at Tuncurry NSW on Wallis Lake (tidal) that is located on a sand spit that also has many dwellings, at highest tide the water level reaches the highest point on the ramp and locals have told me nothing has changed in living memory, and records indicate since the town was established in the 1800s.
During heavy rain periods at high tide there has been local area flooding as drainage cannot dispose of the rainwater but otherwise situation unchanged.
I know pioneer families and I have looked through historical society books and images back the days of logging, sawmills, ship building, timber exporting, fishing, oyster farming and dairy farms, etc.
110
Someone help me with how air conditioners give off toxic fumes .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-16/bom-forecasts-more-heatwaves-as-western-sydney-ozone-levels-rise/10718504
30
So BREXIT going swimmingly, eh? Is it just me or is it like Treason May has deliberately fumbled around to make an unacceptable ‘solution’ just so the political class can claim there is no way to BREXIT?
160
It’s time to oil up the guillotine for about 2/3 of the British parliamentarians and their cohorts in the bureaucracy — all those who have spat on democracy.
100
Use a Schick blade on that guillotine… Gillette has gone all soy.
80
I’ve just seen the ad that prompted this post. Were they serious?
10
If not serious then they have a very expensive sense of humour for casual pranks.
Assuming it IS their new official platform – and the NPCs of the MSM seem to be defending it as if it is – it does seem like business suicide.
I had a brief skim earlier this morning and CBS (I think, open to correction) seemed to be suggesting that some minority of ‘Men’s Rights’ groups had taken offense, in much the same way people have tried to damage control backlash against such utter PC rubbish as The Last Jedi and Doctor Woke.
The problem with that logical is that for media that gets taken to the Nu Left by our Social Betters it can at least be argued that the changes at least open the existing franchise to a new audience and that the toxic minority fans need to accept their product belongs to everyone. Move on Man Babies!
Problem with Gillette is that their ENTIRE market is men and they have made an ad campaign that insults the morals of that same ENTIRE market share. Where do they assume they are going to expand their market into in order to replace the people who are too Toxic to accept this change? Are they hoping that grateful women are going to start using men’s shavers?
These are MEN’S razor blades, designed for the sole purpose of being good at removing male facial hair from male faces and are marketed at adult men. That is their only market.
What do these people think we have? Some sense of brand loyalty? They are razor blades. I actually had to go home and look at what brand I used because to me, and I assume many others, they are JUST razor blades.
Changing brands out of spite is going to take no effort whatsoever.
82
MudCrab … didn’t you know women have beards too now? Lest ye forget:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conchita_Wurst
Heavens forbid you use the wrong pronouns.
20
Well known man hater Clementine Ford seems to think we should all assume the guilt of the few and just say yes fair enough we all must improve.
Imagine for a moment a lady shaver add that generalised in a similar way and extolled all women (this is where I go into moderation) to stop being gold digging whores swinging from rich man to the next richest man. I am sure the rabid feminists would be OK with that.
20
The law actually requires Brexit to take place on the 29th March, as passed by Parliament, whatever the remoaners and their EU allies might wish. If it means no deal, so be it. The vote was for In or Out; no mention of ‘deals’. 17.4 million people voted Out and are becoming very angry at all the shillyshallying.
81
Preaching to the choir here 🙂
60
This is treason of the highest order Annie.
Nigel Farage has enunciated the facts in a speech today:
“Let’s be clear: we didn’t just vote [to Leave the European Union] in a referendum — we backed it up in a General Election where 80 percent of people voted for parties that said they would honour the result of the referendum.”
“And then 500 MPs voted for Article 50… they are our elected representatives, they took the decision, and now they are trying to wriggle out of that.”
70
Best outcome is a NO DEAl exit. The MSM keep forgetting what Britain did to the Commonwealth when they joined the EUROPEAN COMMON MARKET. No mention of European Union then, it just came about by stealth. To my knowledge many Commonwealth countries will welcome back Britannia as a major trading partner and just move forward. A short list is Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Sth Africa. Don’t know where India stands but I’m sure they will take up any new opportunities. Even good old Rhodesia could benifit if its leader had any political accumen. Talk about a hard border between Northern and Southern Ireland, this could be resolved locally and the real hard border is the Irish Sea.
71
Parliament will have to work up a sweat if Brexit goes ahead without a deal. Won’t do them any harm.
40
Port Augusta hit 52C earlier today?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/urgent-health-warning-is-issued-after-the-mercury-tops-52c-during-potentially-deadly-nationwide-heatwave/ar-BBSgSkJ?ocid=spartandhp
BOM readings show maximum for Port Augusta so far of 30C.
80
Port Augusta – as at 11:10am today.
Max 30.7C at 9:26am
Min 25.2C at 7:53am
Been hovering between 26-30C all morning.
A mis-read figure? In too much of a hurry to get out a headline? Oops!
100
Correct. But who’s going to check as you have? 99.9% of people will believe it was 52C in Port Augusta and go tut tut and get a drink. There will never be a correction. Climate Change means never saying sorry. It will be 52 somewhere. Meanwhile sizzling Melbourne and South of Melbourne to Tasmania has real trouble cracking 30C, mostly around a delightful 25C. The Climate Change Communists must be angry at our summer.
Meanwhile the Greens insist that we are all offended that the first fleet landed 230 years ago to make this country what it is today, Australia. Before that, it wasn’t anything. No one knew where on earth they lived or even that it was an island. Apparently though it was all in good hands, albeit unrenovated. What have the British done for us?
162
True, although any Port Augusta readers would be having a quiet chuckle!
Meanwhile I’m waiting for the Greens to be complaining about humans invading the Moon!
90
Pink Floyd have been visiting/invading the dark side of the moon for decades.
50
As Gerry O’Driscoll, the Abbey Road Studio’s Irish doorman, famously said on that Floyd album:
Tony.
40
Who am I to argue with a band that had such luminary song titles as “Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict”?
10
Yes, the people who landed knew exactly where they landed. It was planned. They also knew what they left and why. For most it was a one way journey and they knew the potential. It was the mythical Great Southern Land which Captain James Cook set out to find in his secret orders as he circled the world and Antarctica three times.
In time these new arrivals named the continent Australia and in 1901 the country Australia was formally created but this original date was the day self awareness and Nationhood came to an ancient continent. It is truly Australia’s creation day and we even know which day in our calendar it came to be.
Of course the people against everything want Australia day stopped or moved. They can go home and celebrate their own day, their own achievements and with their own calendar.
131
This is not in relation to the moon but Australia.
40
The Mabo native land title judgement included that there was white SETTLEMENT when the British Empire’s First Fleet began the establishment of the first colony.
And for the leftist activists, the Federation of States that formed the Commonwealth of Australia is a result of colonisation, not the start of white colonisation.
50
Wind came up mid-afternoon and temperature dropped from a spike of 42C to 33C…so far. The wind is very gusty, hope there are no fires around.
31
We had been doubtful that the cool change would reach us.
31
Bom had to get one right occasionally Annie , I’m with you and this morning when I seen the forecast I thought usual Bom bs but yep pretty much as predicted .
21
And TVNZ this evening told us we were going to get all the “red hot” air from OZ over the next few days. The obvious intention was to try and get us all worried about A Heatwave. We’ll see. The Metservice claims our temp peaked at 25C but it can’t have been for long because the hourly readings don’t go over 23. It was a nice day today.
20
Ditto at Mt Barker in SA. Forecast was for 39 degrees.It’s almost 1.00 pm and the temperature outside my back door is 29degrees. Definitely NOT a heat wave here. No wind and a bit humid.
90
The average Australian summer heat has got to Peter Hannam @SMH …
The world’s 15 hottest sites on Tuesday were all in Australia
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/the-world-s-15-hottest-sites-were-all-in-australia-amid-significant-heatwave-20190116-p50rmr.html
Ho-hum …
JANUARY 11, 2019: EUROPE’S SHOCKING 10-DAY SNOWFALL TOTALS — GSM
https://electroverse.net/europes-shocking-10-day-snowfall-totals-gsm/
Further evidence that no amount of renewables locally or globally can prevent any climate change.
51
Meandering jet streams in both hemispheres are creating blocking highs, its a teleconnection. This isn’t a global warming mechanism.
40
Also, not much land South of the Equator and not in the water moderated tropics. It’s easy to set records.
50
Plus Antarctica, the size of South America and with by far the coldest climate. Most of the Southern half of the planet is water, which is why in the 1700s they were looking for the Great Southern Land to balance things.
60
.
❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
❶①❶①
❶①❶① . . . The Comb of Death . . .
❶①❶①
❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
.
What, you may be wondering, is the “Comb of Death”?
In simple terms, it is a graph that looks like a comb.
But, what has it got to do with Death?
Well, “The Comb of Life” didn’t sound very exciting. But “Death” is a certain winner.
And it is showing “global warming”. That causes a lot of deaths.
Or it will in the future, if the “Comb of Death” is correct.
The “Comb of Death” displays temperature ranges, for more than 24,000 locations on the Earth.
And I am talking about REAL, ACTUAL, ABSOLUTE temperatures. Not those weak, pale, temperature anomaly things. But real, actual, absolute temperatures. The sort that REAL men use (and REAL women too).
====================
The Oil companies offered me a lot of money to “forget” about the “Comb of Death” with +3.0 degrees Celsius of global warming. But I am an artist, and they didn’t offer me enough money.
Because people are not making enough effort to reduce their carbon footprints, the IPCC has asked me to show you a “Comb of Death” based on +3.0 degrees Celsius of global warming.
They expect that this “Comb of Death” will make Alarmists scream in fear, and will make Skeptics repent their evil ways. A word of warning, this last “Comb of Death” is not for the faint-hearted.
https://agree-to-disagree.com/the-comb-of-death
41
The Bering Strait connects the Pacific Ocean to the Arctic Ocean thereby becoming the sole interconnection between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans via the Arctic.
There is a net volume flow and heat flux from the Pacific to the Atlantic. The Straight provides about 30% of the heat into the Arctic Ocean while Atlantic 70%. More importantly the flow through the Bering Strait is lower salinity than the flow from the Atlantic so it is an important contributor to the deep ocean circulation in the Atlantic.
The Pacific Ocean is Earth’s BIGGEST solar panel. When the sun is over the dateline it sees very little besides the Pacific:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNgxuJI0wR9QXdgceI
The heat collected from the tropical Pacific is transported throughout the globe. Without the heat transport the global climate would be far different than present day. The Australian east coast would be lush tropical forests and parts of the n Antarctic continent would be temperate forests. Europe and most of North America would be covered in very thick ice rather than the current smattering of snow.
The volume flow and heat flux through the Bering Strait has been monitored for some years. In the period 2001 to 2014 the net flow and heat flux increased. Annual heat flux from 3E20J to 5E20J. This annual input is not trivial wrt the Arctic and the increase over the years is significant.
It has been determined that the static head difference between the Pacific and the Atlantic is the permanent driving force for the net flow as wind only plays a minor role. So:
A. What causes this perpetual head?
B. How does the water get returned to sustain the flow?
C. Is it possible that the difference in head is some incredibly long oscillation and will eventually reverse?
No climate model has the resolution to offer any guidance on what is going on the Bering Strait. The strait is only 50m deep and is 85km across.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNgxzEWRmX1zwufXSa
It is the narrow channel between the two land masses toward the bottom of the image.
110
Fascinating, 50 m!
40
A. What causes this perpetual head?
B. How does the water get returned to sustain the flow?
C. Is it possible that the difference in head is some incredibly long oscillation and will eventually reverse?
Way beyond my pay grade to tackle “C” but could it be the roaring forties that blows the water against Sth America some of which goes north. Have the roaring forties increased this century?
20
A. What causes this perpetual head?
B. How does the water get returned to sustain the flow?
C. Is it possible that the difference in head is some incredibly long oscillation and will eventually reverse?
Way beyond my pay grade to tackle “C” but could it be the roaring forties that blows the water against Sth America some of which goes north. Have the roaring forties increased this century?
40
That makes sense. The circumpolar current in the Southern Ocean is a huge flow and Drake’s Passage is a nip point so likely to build head on the Pacific side that gets reflected all the up South and North America.
This could be a good aspect to investigate. A pressure head over Drake’s Passage would show up over the entire Pacific.
I view the Southern Ocean as the crankshaft of Earth’s climate and the three cceans connected to it as the cylinders with heat going in at the tropics and getting transported into and around the southern ocean. However each cylinder has its own circulating frequency and causes in-phase and out of phase pulses of heat in the Southern Ocean circulation.
60
Rick, spot on: “the crankshaft of Earth’s climate and the three oceans connected to it as the cylinders”, yessirree Bob, just like Felix’s 1929 “three lobes per rotor” triple-whammy ringer –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine
and even the most un-holy B oh! M’s southern hemisphere weather and wave map, centred on Antarctica, shows the relentless clockwise circulation / crankshaft with the Indian, Pacific and Atlantic oceans / cylinders endlessly banging away, pumping the goodness around –
http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/viewer/index.shtml?type=mslp-precip&tz=AEDT&area=SH&model=G&chartSubmit=Refresh+View
Maybe Drake Passage, the ‘gap’ between volcanic Antarctic Peninsula and volcanic Tierra del Fuego, is the spark plug…
40
Dang, I ain’t no mechanic am I 😉 The volcanic Penguin Peninsula and volcanic Land of Fire are/is the spark plug, the ‘passage’ is the gap, bzzzzzt! I take it the Earl of Sandwich never sailed anywhere near here…
30
A. What causes this perpetual head?
B. How does the water get returned to sustain the flow?
C. Is it possible that the difference in head is some incredibly long oscillation and will eventually reverse?
Way beyond my pay grade to tackle “C” but could it be the roaring forties that blows the water against Sth America some of which goes north. Have the roaring forties increased this century?
20
To all,
Bob Tisdale has a free ebook on Ocean Circulation which you may find interesting.
Titled: Who Turned on the Heat
He concludes”
60
John I like this and hva estarted reading it. But who is Bob tisdale ? There is no info at all in the pdf.
Cheers Bill
30
He’s a long time commenter on WattsUpWithThat. He specialised in giving the straight gen about the oceans and showed himself to be a careful and accurate commenter.
His website is at https://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/ He’s a good read.
50
sophocles has answered your question, Bill. Cheers
30
If I might add, when the BOM says that we are soon to experience an El Niño, always check to see what Bob says before believing the BOM. As usual, the BOM was wrong again this year, and they were wrong also the previous year.
10
Sorry for the multiple posts, my puter is playing up like a second hand lawn mower.
40
Is it time to re-engine it? 🙂
00
Thanks RW,
Fascinating, and all new to me.
Cheers,
Dave B
40
DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after ‘reckless’ race remarks
07:09, UK,
Sunday 13 January 2019
The laboratory Dr Watson once headed says his views on intelligence and race are “reprehensible” and “unsupported by science”.
In 2007 Dr Watson said he was inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa
Nobel Prize-winning DNA scientist James Watson has been stripped of several honorary titles by the laboratory he once headed over his views about intelligence and race.
The Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory said it was acting in response to remarks he made in a television documentary which aired earlier this month.
The 90-year-old geneticist – one of three who discovered the DNA double helix – had lost his job at the New York laboratory in 2007 for expressing racist views.
But in the new PBS film, American Masters: Decoding Watson, he said his views on intelligence and race had not changed since.
He had told a magazine in 2007 he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” as “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – where all the testing says not really”.
The 90-year-old geneticist lost his job at the New York laboratory in 2007
While Dr Watson also said he hoped everyone was equal, he added: “People who have to deal with black employees find this is not true.”
In the latest documentary, the molecular biologist says that genes cause a difference on average between black people and white people in IQ tests.
The laboratory branded the latest remarks “reprehensible”, “reckless” and “unsupported by science”, saying they effectively reversed Dr Watson’s written apology and retraction in 2007.
The research centre subsequently revoked three titles – chancellor emeritus, Oliver R Grace Professor Emeritus, and honorary trustee.
The zoologist has a long-standing association with the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, with him becoming director in 1968, its president in 1994 and its chancellor a decade later. The lab also has a school named after him.
Dr Watson’s son, Rufus, has since said his father was in a nursing home after a car crash in October. He said the scientist’s awareness of his surroundings were “very minimal” and rejected the notion he was a “bigot”.
He said: “My dad’s statements might make him out to be a bigot and discriminatory… [but] they just represent his rather narrow interpretation of genetic destiny.
https://news.sky.com/story/dna-pioneer-james-watson-stripped-of-honours-after-reckless-race-remarks-11606108
To say his views on intelligence and race are “reprehensible” and “unsupported by science” is the same non-science as global warming. There is a mountain of evidence to support the theory that different races have different IQs.
The military started IQ testing, partly to match the recruit to a trade he/she is suited for and partly as a social construct to allow those from poorer groups to get training. They have been doing it a long time and tests have been refined ever since so that the illiterate and innumerate can be fairly tested. The results are that Ashkenazi Jews are the highest scorers [Are they European Jews?] followed by East Asians. White Europeans are [almost] by definition 100 but sub-Saharan Africans are in the low 70’s, a full standard deviation below 100. Note that the US Army will not recruit anyone with one below 73, there is nothing that they can be trusted to do and that’s 10% of the population. Search on “McNamara’s Morons” for more on this topic.
There is little that can be done to raise IQ and that includes early intervention. Sadly there are things that can lower it. I am using Jordan Peterson as an authority here.
While a high IQ doesn’t guarantee success in life it helps, the way being tall helps being a pro basketballer.
120
“New York City’s public-school system used to administer a pencil-and-paper IQ test to its entire school population. In 1954, a psychologist used those test results to identify all 28 children in the New York public-school system with measured IQ’s of 170 or higher. Of those 28, 24 were Jews.”
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/jewish-genius/
40
It is not an accident that the two groups with the highest IQs are also the most hated in their hemispheres.
In Europe the Jews will, obviously, succeed in banking [money lending] so it is easy to understand why they are despised, still. They were an easy scapegoat for Hitler.
In the east, the Chinese spread to the Pacific Islands [including Australia], Malaysia, Thailand etc where they filtered to the top. In Fiji Bainimarama staged a coup to curtail the Chinese as I recall. In Australia they became the traders, not the diggers in the goldfields.
Human nature will always find a way to demonise those who are different and successful. Jews will never find peace and the Chinese seem hell-bent on destroying any that exists in the east.
21
The Chinese didn’t spread to Australia, the original mob on this big island came via India and Timor around 65,000 years ago. We are all out of Africa.
20
Personally I am out of Edinburgh or Hamburg depending which side you want to look at.
00
Hanrahan:
Since Jews in Western Europe were forbidden to own land they had little choice but to be traders, which led to many handling.
It was convenient for local rulers to borrow money for wasteful spending (unlike? today) and give them the job of tax collecting.
Baron, or Bishop, got a pile of money and the Jews were convenient scapegoats.
There are many examples of immigrant chinese digging for gold. Those that survived often went into market gardening.
In Fiji I think Bainimarama was more concerned about the ‘Indians’ having too much power.
30
See their wikipedia page
Spoiler Alert: Yes.
20
Okay, I was looking at some of Jo’s back issues yesterday and suddenly had one of those face palm moments where I now doubt what I think I already doubted.
Now my previous understanding was that ‘Greenhouse Gases’ used the greenhouse effect to warm the planet in the same way glass houses work. Energy goes through the glass panels, but the heated air cannot escape.
I now have discovered that the so called ‘Greenhouse Gases’ heat the earth by absorbing energy from the sun and then re-radiate this energy to heat the atmosphere some more.
Is this honestly what so called ‘scientists’ think ‘Greenhouse Gases’ do?
So these magic gases can absorb energy from the passing sun, then give out additional bonus energy, but we can’t use this magical ability to power our cities. Sod cold fusion, if we should be powering the future with Runaway Greenhouse Effects.
Sorry to sound flippant, but unless I am missing something obvious these greenhouse gases fly in the face of, well, just about every other laws of physics but let us start with the Laws of Thermodynamics and I am utterly gob smacked that these magical assumptions are actually the core building blocks of the entire scam.
Please tell me I am wrong and can go back to just hating dodgy computer models and malicious self interest.
112
A few scientists appreciate the IR absortion of the so-called GHGs and show how they cool the atmosphere.
See Thomas Allmendinger’s empirical paper.
11
Hi Musgrave,
There are various interpretations of the CO2 greenhouse effect that are all essentially unscientific.
Heat is absorbed by CO2 but is Immediately required to attain equilibrium with the other gases near it in the atmosphere.
The heated parcel of gas rises until the temperature of that parcel equilibrates with the surrounding air.
No IR in the CO2 at the higher altitude can move back down to earth against the temperature gradient. The only place any of that low grade IR can go to is away from Earth, down the temperature gradient.
The whole thing is a scam.
KK
20
Sorry MudCrab, auto correct
10
Thanks KK.
I feel a bit stupid as since everyone refers to the ‘problem’ as Greenhouse, the logical assumption is that they are taking about CO2 trapping the heat in the same way glass panels on a greenhouse behave.
All this time I have been more interested in the fact that the models are not remotely close to the observations, the manner in which history is shamelessly edited to deny anything that disagrees with the official reports, the fact that everything is ‘Worse Than We Thought(tm)’ and ‘May Already Be Too Late(tm)’.
I found it incredibly easy as an engineering professional and self aware adult to spot a lie when I saw one and been extremely cynical about the entire scam for years.
What I never did was step back to the basics and now, having done so, I am utterly gob smacked at how much junk science is involved. It is not just something that could have come true, but hasn’t, it is something that cannot come true. It’s basic thermodynamics. Honestly if CO2 was capable of runaway warming we would be using it for power generation.
I am gobsmacked about this.
30
Well its an unthreaded so here goes,
One of our little family members (Maltese) had taken ill last Sunday and after tests and a stay at the Vets we discovered his liver is failing due to cancer found in a few areas, he cannot be operated on due to anaesthetic risks and so we’ve had him home for the last couple of days to say goodbye to our brave little man.
For the past ten years he has given us great companionship and love along with his sister, so for anyone out there who has a special little friend can you please for me give them a heartfelt cuddle or kiss just to remind yourselves how caring for all pets makes us happier and better people.
RIP Biron, your passing will diminish me.
90
We have a malti-dacshund cross who lived a healthy 19 years before we had to put him down due to a bad stroke.
They definately have opinions, do maltesers….we miss him.
Sorry to hear about it….
60
We lost our little terrier to cancer some years back and I vowed “never again”. But the house always seemed empty. So I started checking on rescue dogs, there were plenty of bulls, staffys and other working dogs but in spite of the best of intentions our dogs always end up in the beds. We found a “designer” malt cross in Cairns and picked him up. I have never seen such a brutalised dog. He sat on Mrs H’s lap all the way home and is seldom out of her sight since. The rest of us are good friends but the sun shines out of Mum’s bum.
30
He’s gone now, thank you for the kind words.
00
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
#24.4.1
Am I being censured, for some reason?
20
why yes , yes you are. relax, sometimes it makes no sense at all, just some WordPress filter didnt like something. It will appear eventually
70
.
Yes, you are. You used a word or an arrangement of words which were deemed “offensive.” “bad.” “damaging,” “undesired,” or just plain “naughty.”
A moderator will find it (if you nudge, it might happen faster but be very polite! 🙂 ) and if your context is innocuous publish it.
One word which gave us all a lot of trouble was the five-letter f-word—the one ending with a `d’ and meaning obtaining money
bythroughdeceptionum false pretences—oops, this may go into that wonderful suspended state—so those of us who were burnt by it now avoid it!30
When in doubt use “$” or “@” and not lose meaning.
00
16 Jan: ABC: Heatwave update: Temperatures are expected to peak over the coming days
ABC Weather By Kate Doyle
PIC: Photo:Temperature records have already been broken and more could break over the next few days
The tennis players are sweating, toxic ozone warnings are out for Sydney and fruit is cooking on the branches. This is a heatwave, Australia.
Sarah Fitton is an extreme weather meteorologist at the Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) and said the heat will peak over the next few days.
There is expected to be a slight reprieve over the weekend before the heat starts to build again across southern Australia early next week…
New weather records were set in SA yesterday.
Ms Fitton said Tarcoola reached 48.9C, breaking the record by 0.1 of a degree.
In Port Augusta the hottest temperature ever recorded was smashed by 0.7 of a degree when it got up to 48.9C.
Ms Fitton said these record temperatures could just be the beginning…
Ms Fitton said it is difficult to compare one heatwave to another.
“It is quite difficult to quantify in terms of individual locations, but certainly we’re seeing some record temperatures broken at multiple sites,” she said.
“It does have the potential to be quite a significant one for the record books.”
Blair Trewin, senior climatologist at the BOM, said that in terms of its length, intensity, and the proportion of Australia impacted, the best comparison with the current heatwave would be the heatwave of January 2013.
But he said there are differences, for example this event has not yet affected Sydney to the extent as in 2013…
A big historical heatwave which also comes to mind is that of 1939.
Dr Trewin said a lot of the 1939 records have been broken in the last decade, but one region where the 1939 records still largely stand is in southern inland NSW and north-east Victoria, which is also the region likely to see the most abnormal temperatures this week.
“At this stage it looks like this week’s heatwave in that region will be of comparable intensity to 1939, but not quite as long-lasting,” he said.
“However, the 1939 heatwave was largely confined to NSW, Victoria and SA.
“Tasmania was largely unaffected, and in WA it was actually a very cool January.”…
Heatwaves are Australia’s most deadly natural disaster and Ms Fitton said people often underestimate them…
“This intensity will impact not only the vulnerable in the community, those who are elderly or pregnant or young children or those with an illness, but they can also have a major impact on healthy people, and also on infrastructure, like electricity and transport.”…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-16/summer-heatwave-expected-across-australia/10719356
20
Here at Mt Barker in SA it is warm & humid. Top temp was 33 degrees. Now 29 !
BOM forecast for today at Mt Barker : 39 degrees !
How come BOM can’t even get the forecast for a day ahead right now ?
And curiously BOM is till telling us it will be 39 today even though it’s now 4.30 pm and cooling down.
42
Temperature can be so localised its crazy we have seen that all the news of weather station next to ice cream vans and jet blasts and new car parks.
Today my wife did run around the local area, only about 20k in opposite directions from our place to both Alexandra and Marysville. The outside temperature ranged from 36C to 46C. The 46C was along a long straight stretch of highway with no tree cover.
In this era of massive urban growth and massaged temp histories I find it hard to even get interested in alledged hottest locations.
Despite all the hoo hah it remains that heat records in nearly every region remain over 50 years old, cold records however are relatively recent (WMO site and Uni of Arizona)
62
Gee another shire resident, we will have to be carefull not to form a commenting block from Murrindindi.
30
Me too! I went to Marysville today. When I left, a bit after lunchtime, it was 39C in Marysville, 37C on the road to Buxton and 41C nearer to Taggerty. At home there was a spike to 42C about the same time but mostly it was 39C.
We should form a local climate commonsense group!
31
Yes! I’d forgotten the BOM has an Extreme Weather Desk so I guess the extreme weather meteorologists sit at it and I further guess that in order that extreme staff have something to do to escape that boredom which kills they’re impressed into ordinary weather meteorology most of the time (or that the extremes are BOM adjusted).
10
15 Jan: UK Express: UK SNOW: Arctic weather system sparks HEAVY SNOW today as Britain set for COLDEST weekend
BRITAIN is wrapping up for the coldest weekend for a year with sub-zero winds and snow set to sweep in today.
By Nathan Rao
Thermometers will widely nosedive from Wednesday amid warnings the UK will stay locked in the freezer until spring.
A swathe of bitter air will pour in from the Arctic pushing temperatures to freezing or below across the entire country through the next 48 hours…
Campaigners have reiterated calls for elderly and vulnerable people to take extra care during cold weather.
Malcolm Booth, chief executive of the National Federation of Occupational Pensioners (NFOP), warned people not to be lulled into a false sense of security by the current mild conditions…
“People should make sure they are ready for this bout of cold weather, we would also encourage people keep an eye out for vulnerable neighbours, friends and family.
***“It is always a shock to realise how many excess deaths occur during the winter months and we should be striving to avoid a repeat of these worrying figures.”…
James Madden, forecaster for Exacta Weather, warned the cold weather could dig in through the rest of winter…
Cold weather is likely to hold out through the rest of the month with the outlook for February largely cold and snowy, he said.
“A lengthy cold and wintry spell could hold out well into the meteorological spring,” he added…
https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1072030/weather-snow-UK-latest-forecast-coldest-cold-January-2019-Met-Office
20
16 Jan: ABC: Extreme temperatures burn stone fruit from inside out, causing severe loss
ABC Rural By Jessica Schremmer
Dried Tree Fruits Australia chairman Kris Werner, who grows stone fruit at his property in Waikerie, between Adelaide and Mildura, said many growers were losing their fruit to ‘stone burn’ due to the heat.
“The stone burns them, which means they burn on the inside, they become squashy and you can’t use them,” Mr Werner said.
The extreme heat has cost Renmark stone fruit grower and packer Dino Cerrachi up to 30 per cent of some stone fruit varieties this season.
“It’s extremely hot and we are expecting 46, possibly 47 degrees [Celsius],” he said.
“There will be quite a lot of damage from direct sunlight, especially on the north-western side of the trees, or any exposed areas at the wrong time of that sun position.
“Basically, it just sort of cooks that side or that part of the fruit that has the direct sunlight for a length of time and it gives you an impression that it is soft, but it has actually gone jammy from being cooked.”…
Mr Cerrachi said he is racing against the clock, trying to get as much fruit off the trees as possible, before the extreme heat hits throughout the day…
Mr Cerrachi said he had tried to increase his workforce to get as much fruit off the trees as possible, but struggled to find experienced workers…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-01-16/heatwave-burns-stonefruit-from-inside-out/10717496
15 Jan: FreshPlaza: “If the frosts continue, the damage could become catastrophic”
Spain: More than 40% of vegetables damaged by cold weather in Guadalentin
The agricultural professional organization ASAJA Murcia estimates that the cold has taken a severe toll on the horticultural crops of the Guadalentín Valley, especially in Lorca, Totana, and also in Fuente Álamo. More than 40% of lettuce, artichokes and beans have been lost due to the cold
As explained by the Secretary General of ASAJA Murcia, Alfonso Gálvez Caravaca, “the cold has caused severe damages to horticultural crops, especially broccoli and artichokes, but also lettuce, in the Campo de Cartagena. The extent of the losses is still being assessed, but more than 35% of the total will be lost in some areas.”
Gálvez Caravaca also pointed out that “we are very concerned about the possibility of citrus fruits being strongly affected, especially lemons, and we hope that no further damage will be recorded.”…
https://www.freshplaza.com/article/9061489/spain-more-than-40-of-vegetables-damaged-by-cold-weather-in-guadalentin/
10
Oh goody ( not ) – looks like sacks of gold bank is road testing a cashless society transition….smells like US govt to me…..
https://futurism.com/goldman-sachs-launched-new-cryptocurrency
“Soon, you may be able to use cryptocurrency to pay for anything from your morning coffee to happy hour drinks (or, you know, maybe some things that aren’t a beverage). And you could do it as easily as you use your credit card or Venmo today.
“Circle, a payment startup owned by Goldman Sachs, announced yesterday that it’s launching a new cryptocurrency called the Circle USD Coin. The new currency is basically a digital version of the dollar that you’ll be able to purchase by trading in, you know, real money.
“The USD Coin is the first cryptocurrency released by a major financial institution. While this sort of goes against the whole point of decentralized and distributed cryptocurrencies like bitcoin, Goldman Sachs and Circle hope to bring some stability to the cryptocurrency market, which has crashed and rebounded an exhausting number of times this year alone.
“Circle doesn’t want its USD Coin to be subject to the instability and inflation inherent to other unregulated cryptocurrencies, so it will tie the value of a coin to that of a US dollar, according to CNBC. Again, this pretty much goes against the whole point of cryptocurrencies, which were originally designed to present a transparent financial market free of regulation from federal government and the influence of big banks.
And though it has seemed increasingly likely that regulation and corporate influence will play a bigger role in the space, some, including Silicon Valley investor Sam Altman, staunchly believe that any USD-based cryptocurrency must remain under distributed control.”
20
***hopefully, all those private jets will still be able to land…somewhere:
15 Jan: The Local Switzerland: AFP: Swiss town’s population and hundreds of tourists cut off by heavy snowfall
More than 2,000 people in the Swiss Alps were isolated on Monday after heavy snowfall cut roads and rail links as storms continued to wreak havoc across the region…
***And, just a week before the World Economic Forum’s main annual meeting in Davos, train service to the glitzy ski town in eastern Switzerland has also ground to a halt, national rail service SBB said.
The head of the local government in the town of Disentis, Robert Cajacob, told AFP, that the town’s population of 2,200 as well as “several hundred tourists” currently had no way out because of rail closures and impassable roads…
The national weather office, MeteoSwiss, said that parts of the Alps had seen 60 to 90 centimetres (24 to 35 inches) of snow since Saturday night and that another 30 to 50 centimetres were expected in some parts of the northern Alps in the coming hours…
https://www.thelocal.ch/20190115/swiss-towns-population-and-hundreds-of-tourists-cut-off-by-heavy-snowfall
15 Jan: Daily Mail: Europe’s snow hell completely cuts off towns – including Davos a week before economic forum – with avalanche warnings raised to maximum and tourists trapped at luxury resorts
The threat level has been raised to maximum for a large part of the Alps for only the second time since 1999
By Miranda Aldersley For Mailonline & AFP
In Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps the snow is already three meters high, but by today another 70cm – 1m is expected. In some areas, such as those directly in front of mountain ranges where clouds gather, up to 5ft (1.5m) of snow is possible…
It is the worst snowfall in Europe for at least 30 years and a state of emergency was in force across parts of the continent last night. More than 3m (10ft) of snow fell over the weekend in some areas of the Alps, with another 60cm forecast for today…
Meteorologists have described the avalanche situation in the Alps as critical, as the area enters a second week of disruption with several schools shut and residents unable to get to work…
The German Federal Agency for Technical Relief (THW), Bundeswehr soldiers as well as state and federal police officers are out in force clearing snow and helping residents to safety. In the district of Miesbach almost all roads in mountain and forest areas are closed.
The biathlon World Cup in Ruhpolding, Bavaria was due to start with the big opening ceremony tomorrow, but has been postponed due to the conditions…
French authorities have also warned of a high risk of avalanches in the Haute-Savoie region that borders Switzerland…
British skiers were among thousands facing long delays on their airport transfers to and from resorts in Austria due to road conditions…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6589387/Avalanche-slams-German-hotel-100-guests-staying.html
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I hope the WEF was devoting serious time to AGW. Maybe the WEF’ers could get out and shovel some of the AGW of the red carpet.
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“It is the
worstbest snowfall in Europe for at least 30 years” – there, fixed it, Pat. Hopefully these Austrian ski lifties, digging 3+ metres snow off a chairlift base-building’s roof, don’t hit one of those mythical ‘tipping points’ – whoosh!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwqBWuWUYAEP_ph.jpg
40
When I lived in Europe I enjoyed the idea of living with snow (for a couple years anyway) One of my grumpy German colleagues called it “the white mess” and flew every second weekend and any holidays to southern Portugal. At least his actions matched his grumpy words.
10
“It is the
worstbest snowfall in Europe for at least 30 years” – there, fixed it, Pat. Hopefully these Austrian ski lifties, digging 3+ metres snow off a chairlift base-building’s roof, don’t hit one of those mythical ‘tipping points’ – whoosh!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwqBWuWUYAEP_ph.jpg
40
read all:
15 Jan: Paul Homewood: Antarctic Losing Tiny Amounts Of Ice (Or Maybe It’s Gaining Ice, NASA Is Not Sure!)
h/t AC Osborn
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/01/15/antarctic-losing-tiny-amounts-of-ice-or-maybe-its-gaining-ice-nasa-is-not-sure/
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This was indeed a very interesting exercise.
You know how we are told that rooftop solar will force coal fired power to become useless stranded assets, and at their peak during the middle of the day, coal fired power suffers enormously, not being able to sell any of its power, because there is just so much rooftop solar power.
Yesterday was the day of largest power consumption this summer, (so far) and hence the day of largest power generation.
Rooftop solar power (RTS) had a really big day, and at its peak it was delivering 4317MW of power, and hey, would anyone wonder why rooftop solar power which currently has a Nameplate of 8000MW PLUS can only deliver 4317MW at its best at the precise time of year when it is at its best Mid Summer. So, even at its absolute maximum at its time of best power generation, it still only manages a Capacity Factor of just over 50% at its Peak. The average for yesterday, the whole day, was 1520MW per hour, so a CF of 19%, but hey that’s not what would get reported eh!
So maximum power from RTS was 4317MW at 12.30PM, during lunch.
That surely makes coal fired power a stranded asset eh! (/sarc)
At that exact same time, coal fired power was generating 17862MW.
Okay, so we need a comparison then.
Let’s go back five whole years, when RTS was at its beginning of ramping up, and only had the tiniest fraction of what there is now, and in that manner, we can prove once and for all that coal fired power has now become that stranded asset.
On March 24th 2014, almost five years ago, there were more coal fired power plants. Even the Northern plant in South Australia was still delivering its power and Hazelwood was still on line as well. So, in 2014 there was actually a much greater Nameplate for coal fired power than there is now.
So, in March of 2104, what was all that coal fired power delivering at the exact same time of peak RTS yesterday 12.30, just after lunch.
Umm! 17882MW
20MW higher than yesterday, and from a much higher Nameplate as well.
Oh yeah!
They’re stranded assets all right.
We are now getting more from coal fired power from less plants.
And the effect of RTS.
A gross saving of ….. 20MW.
Oh frabjous day.
Tony.
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more MSM is linking this story to CAGW today, naturally:
15 Jan: Daily Caller: Did Climate Change Bankrupt California’s Biggest Utility? There Are Good Reasons To Be Skeptical
by Michael Bastasch
•Environmentalists and some policy experts are tying Pacific Gas & Electric’s bankruptcy to global warming.
•PG&E itself made that argument when lobbying California lawmakers to change wildfire liability laws last year.
•However, climate scientist Cliff Mass said global warming “had little to do” with the fires PG&E is liable for.“Climate change had little to do with either the Camp Fire of this November or the Wine Country Fire of October 2017,” Mass told The Daily Caller News Foundation…
However, a slew of media reports published in the wake of PG&E’s bankruptcy announcement Monday suggest global warming might be a factor in the company’s demise…
The New York Times reported that “energy experts” see PG&E’s pending bankruptcy as “one of the first major financial casualties from climate change — and far from the last.” Bloomberg News called it “the biggest warning yet about the financial risks of climate change.”…READ ON
https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/15/climate-change-bankrupt-pge/
no hint of CAGW in this one; MUST-WATCH video; RE contract problems, etc:
VIDEO: 2min59sec: 16 Jan: Bloomberg: The California Rule That Doomed PG&E: Inverse Condemnation
By David R Baker
As PG&E Corp. hurtles toward bankruptcy, a once-obscure legal doctrine with an awkward name certainly bears a portion of the blame.
Known as inverse condemnation, it holds California utilities responsible for wildfire damage caused by their equipment — whether the companies acted negligently or not. The utilities spent most of last year pushing state legislators to change it, to no avail.
The concept isn’t unique to California, but the way the state applies it is…READ ON
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-15/the-california-rule-that-doomed-pg-e-inverse-condemnation
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News reports say Albury had highest ever temperature of 45.3 degrees today.
But BOM half hourly reports indicate highest was 44.6 degrees at 3pm and 44.6 degrees at 5.30pm, with lower temperatures in between.
Is this another of those 5 second electronic device records?
62
16 Jan: EconomicTimesIndia: Reuters: EUROPE POWER-Spot lifted by drop in wind generation, French nuclear output
German wind power generation is expected to fall by 3.1 gigawatts (GW) on Wednesday to around 28 GW, according to Refinitiv Eikon data
Paris: European spot electricity contracts for day-ahead delivery rose on Tuesday, buoyed by a forecast for a fall in German wind power generation and delayed restart of some French nuclear reactors.
German over-the-counter baseload power price for Wednesday delivery gained 5.6 percent to 47.10 euros ($53.84) a megawatt hour (MWh).
The equivalent French contract added 1.2 percent to 63.50 euros/MWh.
German wind power generation is expected to fall by 3.1 gigawatts (GW) on Wednesday to around 28 GW, according to Refinitiv Eikon data…
Coal for northern European delivery in 2020 was up 0.8 percent at $82.40 a tonne…READ ALL
https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/renewable/europe-power-spot-lifted-by-drop-in-wind-generation-french-nuclear-output/67550632
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15 Jan: CleanTechnica: Australia’s Largest Wind Farm Receives Planning Approval
by Joshua S Hill
What could end up being one of Australia’s largest wind farms, the Golden Plains Wind Farm, received planning approval from the Victorian Government last week, and now awaits approval by the federal government.
The Golden Plains Wind Farm is being developed by Australian renewable energy developer WestWind Energy, part of the WestWind Group headquartered in Kirchdorf in northwestern Germany. Set to be built near the small township of Rokewood in the Golden Plains Shire, close to the second largest city in the state, the Golden Plains Wind Farm will consist of up to 228 wind turbines rated anywhere between 3 megawatt (MW) to 5 MW and will generate over 3,500 gigawatt-hours (GWh) of electricity each year — enough to power the equivalent of over 500,000 homes and prevent over 3.5 million tons of CO2.
One point worth noting is that the exact capacity of the proposed wind farm seems to be up in the air, so to speak. Neither announcement by either WestWind Energy or the Victorian Government give any hint as to the exact size of the approved project. The Project Specifications section on WestWind Energy’s website clarifies that somewhat, stating that “WestWind completed further feasibility investigations into the proposed development site and made the commercial decision to pursue a planning permit for an 800-1000 MW project.”
I spoke to Tobias Geiger, the Managing Director of WestWind Energy, who explained that “we are likely to use wind turbines with an installed capacity that is likely to exceed 5 MW based on recent technology developments.” Further, “Due to required changes in the buffering methodology for the threatened Victorian Brolga population under the Planning Permit, we expect the project to end up having approximately 200 wind turbines.” This was indirectly referenced in the announcement made by the Victorian Government, which said that the project could reduce from 228 turbines to 181, “with the number depending on how the proponent chooses to meet environmental restrictions.”
In the end, therefore, Geiger and WestWind Energy expect, “Based on current considerations for turbine selection and likely turbine numbers, we expect the total installed capacity of the project to be just over 1,000 MW.”…
If approved, the AU$1.5 billion Golden Plains will take approximately four years to build and will create over 700 construction jobs in addition to over 70 direct operational jobs in the state. Upon completion, Golden Plains could generate electricity equivalent to between 8% to 10% of Victoria’s electricity consumption, approximately a third of the recently-closed Hazelwood coal-fired power plant which, for a long time, was the centerpiece of Victoria’s energy supply…READ ALL
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/15/australias-largest-wind-farm-receives-planning-approval/
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read all:
15 Jan: Washington Examiner: The ‘100 by 32′(100 percent renewable energy by 2032) green energy fad means higher costs, less reliability for DC residents
by Cutter W. González
(Cutter W. González is a policy analyst in the Armstrong Center for Energy and the Environment at the Texas Public Policy Foundation)
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/the-100-by-32-green-energy-fad-means-higher-costs-less-reliability-for-dc-residents
16 Jan: ThisIsMoneyUK: Victims of the solar sharks: Readers tell how they were talked into giving up the right to make money from the eco panels on THEIR roofs
•Customers were misled when sold solar panels by a firm known as Helms
•Many were also denied cash for extra electricity generated by the panels
•It is instead going to another firm run by Helms owner Robert Skillen
By Ben Wilkinson and Fiona Parker
A disgraced solar panels boss will profit from debt-laden homeowners for decades after ‘pressing’ them to sign over their right to make any money.
Last week Money Mail revealed how customers had been misled when Home Energy and Lifestyle Management Systems (Helms) sold them solar panels under the Government’s Green Deal, ending up with long-term high-interest loans.
We have now discovered many were also denied the bonus cash they should have been paid for extra electricity generated by the panels.
The money is instead going to another firm run by Helms owner Robert Skillen — PV Solar Investments…
The now-bust firm Helms installed PV panels on 4,263 homes across the UK in the name of the Green Deal…
Homeowners say they were told the panels would save them money, only to find that, to pay for them, they had been sold loans with annual interest rates of 7.9 per cent to 10 per cent and payback periods of more than 20 years…READ ON
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-6595453/Victims-solar-sharks-talked-giving-right-make-money-solar-panels.html
10
15 Jan: RE News: Swedes eye 2030 cut-off for renewables support
Wind group argues proposal will cause investors to lose confidence in the market
The electricity certificate provides market-based support for renewable energy and has been in place since 2003.
However, the Swedish wind association Svensk Vindenergi has criticised the proposal, stating that setting a date by which the system would come to an end threatens investment in wind, solar and other renewable energy technologies.
Having a date in place for the end of the system could trigger a sharp fall in electricity certificate prices, said the association…
Svensk Vindenergi spokesperson Charlotte Unger Larson said those who invested early could go bankrupt and that those who are active in the market now, or are considering investing, could potentially lose confidence in Sweden and seek other renewables markets to invest in…
https://renews.biz/50992/sweden-mulls-2030-cutting-green-support/
20
Message for Peter Fitz,
An alternate theory is being peer reviewed.
Anthropomorphic YES!
CO2 No!
Disastrous NO!
But it does fit the data!
Watch this space!
31
Fitz isn’t interested in science fact only science consensus.
33
It took a while but the ABC true to form finally announce the fish kills at Menindee were because of climate change .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-01-16/what-caused-menindee-fish-kill-drought-water-mismanagement/10716080
61
Not lack of water then?
80
Algal blooms have happened before in the Darling.
And fish die offs have happened before as a result.For example during the drought of 2006-2010
They will happen again.
But I have a sneaky feeling that the fuss this time is Greenist plot to grab yet more water for environmental flows at the expense of the towns and irrigation properties in the river Darling basin.
In the future wet years will again lead to semi permanent flow in the river for a while and the fish and shell fish will respond and move into the new habitat and breed up again. That is what has happened with the Menindie lakes.
Another aspect : the Menindie Lakes are there because dams were built. Thelakes were created in order to water supply to Broken Hill.
But they are no longer needed for this purpose.
Why ? Because the NSW government has built a new pipeline to supply Broken Hill from Wentworth on the Murray River. So now the lakes are being allowed to dry out. And a the fish that took advantage of the lakes when they were filled many decades ago, are dying.”
71
Never before has a fish died in this system so it’s unprecedented, ergo climate change .
61
Leaked inquiry report on the USS Fitzgerald collision.
I, and a couple of others here are ex RAAF and we treated our birds with ultimate respect and dare I say it professionalism. No matter what trade you were you knew the basics of the others where personal safety and caring for the aircraft was concerned.
With this experience I automatically went into a defensive mode when the Fitzgerald crew were blamed, completely, for the collision. There HAD to be more to it. I could not believe that the navy did not know how to sail a ship.
Sadly I was wrong. The mob on board could not be trusted with a tinny.
Read and weep:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/leaked-uss-fitzgerald-report-paints-a-damning-picture-of-a-dysfunctional-ship-and-crew/news-story/15f056f5fad65c58aa0517d9dd97ab9c
Could this be slated back to Obama and his dismissive attitude towards the services or something more ingrained? I think the latter. The US has always had a nonchalant attitude to peacetime losses. We have too little equipment and trained personnel not to be very careful with them.
50
When they train, they train like they mean it, so with everyone psuhing hard their will be incidents. Not sure they are nonchalant but they certainly expect it will eventually happen.
This stuff though is a whole different can of worms. Losing people like this is wrong at a lot of levels.
00
Being over 50 I felt good about my life and my accomplishments until I seen this , has to be fake surely , hopefully .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yyIfWL2FGNA
10
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jan/19/australia-swelters-as-relentless-hot-weather-smashes-records
00