How not to negotiate
Mark Steyn on Brexit the day after the last vote:
Last night, sixteen days before Britain supposedly leaves the European Union in accord with the people’s vote of three years ago, their elected representatives voted by 312 to 308 to rule out a “no-deal” Brexit – i.e. a straightforward walkaway – ever.
So the EU now has no incentive ever to reach a deal with Britain. The appalling “deal” Theresa May “negotiated” was for a wretched and humiliating vassal status with Brussels. Because for the Eurocrats, what matters is to teach the lesson the ingrate voters that you can check “Out” any time you like but you can never leave. Mrs May’s deal was meant to be a message to antsy Continentals that the citizenry’s impertinence must never happen again.
So last night the elites rose up and overthrew the masses….
Is May working for the EU or the UK?
Am I crazy? I’m hardly a foreign trade wizz, but I would have thought if you represent the fifth largest economy in the world, whose Monarch technically still heads the most widespread empire, culture and language on Earth* you arrive at the negotiating table saying “We’re out”. Offer us something worthwhile and we’ll consider it. “Two weeks to go.”
From afar downunder there haven’t been any signs Theresa May was serious about Brexit. Surely she would have already negotiated trade deals with the likes of the US, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand? The new arrangements would start the day after Brexit. The EU would be coming to her.
She’d have been delivering speeches about restoring the power and influence of the Commonwealth — surely a bargaining chip worthy of cashing in. Dare I say “India”?
May has had two years to prepare, yet here we are with days to go, and now she’s talking about Tariff details in a No Deal Brexit — the option the house voted down a few days ago?
Tonight the Express is reporting that a couple of economists are asking why she didn’t negotiate with the major EU nations instead of trying to negotiate with the man who had the most to gain from wrecking any deal.
Brexit SHOCK: Economists claim UK should NOT have negotiated with Jean-Claude Juncker
Martina Bet, The Express
According to 2018 book, “Clean Brexit: Why Leaving the EU still makes sense” by authors and economists Liam Halligan and Gerard Lyons, Britain should have negotiated in the first place with big EU nations, chiefly Germany, and not Mr Juncker. If you represent the fifth largest economy in the world you arrive at the negotiating table saying “We’re out”. Offer us something worthwhile and we’ll consider it. Two weeks to go.
Mr Halligan and Mr Lyons claimed that as Britain heads for the exit, “the Commission is deeply concerned about losing the UK’s annual contribution – some £13.1 billion in 2016, or £8.6 billion in net terms.”
They wrote: “So Juncker wanted to do everything he could to frustrate, delay and even help prevent that exit.”
And in the end, the irony, for all the argy bargy on the floor of Parliament, the MP that stops the delay may be the PM of Italy
There are allies in Europe of Brexit.
Italy to BLOCK Brexit delay: Salvini plans eurosceptic favour to Farage, warns Merkel ally
Joe Barnes, The Express
Mr Brok, a close ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, insisted there were “very different views” across the EU over Theresa May’s request to extend the bloc’s Article 50 exit clause. Any Brexit delay will require a unanimous decision by all leaders at the European Council summit on Thursday afternoon. Mr Brok has begged for a short delay until May 23 to avoid new British MEPs having to be elected to the European Parliament.
There are growing concerns in Brussels of swathes of Eurosceptics being elected through British polls as Theresa May fails to deliver Brexit on time.
British Brexiteers have been working hard to lobby European governments to see if they would veto a British extension of Article 50 to ensure Britain leaves the bloc without a deal.
Brexit has friends here in Australia too. Here’s hoping the 17 million voters get what they were promised.
*OK. Call it “symbolic” but there’s 800 years of goodwill, culture and odd legal phrases connecting the Anglosphere. It might be soft power, but it’s still power. The UK has been called the second most powerful country on Earth in by Researchers at European Geostrategy. Though the nation appears to be working hard to change that…
h/t to Barry Woods from a throw away line in the GWPF office.
you arrive at the negotiating table saying “We’re out”. Offer us something worthwhile and we’ll consider it. “Two weeks to go.”
I second this.
Good post, Jo.
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There is also a law of Parliament that what was passed by a majority vote last week cannot be resubmitted for a vote the next.
Apologies for lack of details but currently at work, and yes the above is bang on do what you were elected to do, ENACT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
If you’re so above the laws of your nation you cannot abide by them bugger off to another that disrespects its people so.
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Ok the law I heard about this morning on radio was cited by The Speaker of the British House of Commons John Bercow,
In Bercow’s words, largely drawn from a 19th-century epic study of the workings of British parliamentary democracy which now serves as the de facto rulebook of Westminster-style parliaments the world over:
“…there has been much speculation over the past week about the possibility of the government bringing before the house a motion on Brexit for another so-called ‘meaningful vote’… members on both sides of the house and indeed on both sides of the Brexit argument have expressed their concerns to me about the house being repeatedly asked to pronounce on the same fundamental proposition… a motion or an amendment which is the same in substance as a question which has been decided during a session, may not be brought forward again during that same session.”
This is a convention, Bercow said, which dated back as far as 1604, and had been reasserted several times since, and so not something to be taken lightly. Explaining why this is the case, he continued:
“…one of the reasons why the rule has lasted so long is that it is a necessary rule to ensure the sensible use of the House’s time and the proper respect for the decisions which it takes.”
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/03/18/lane-endless-voting-on-brexit-is-absurd-so-why-are-politicians-pushing-to-make-britons-vote-again/
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I suppose that John Bercow (remainer) will use that convention to uphold the recent vote which was that Britain cannot leave the EU without a Deal (passed 312/308).
Yet I think he will ignore the referendum vote on Brexit itself, which was held during this same parliament which passed with a majority of the voters.
Democracy is in the balance here.
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I posted about this last week. The EU is trying to use the UK to make a point, and the UK government is making huge mistakes in advertising every strategic move in the parliament. This is a mistake Donald Trump does not make… In the US everything is going swimmingly – until it doesn’t. London has many of Europe’s head offices, there is a lot of money invested there. This isn’t going to be changed by Brexit, the UK gets to eat the EUs lunch so to speak. Once the UK is out the EU will be forced to do a deal. While the UK is in the EU has the box seat. So in my view you do exactly what Jo says. We’re out, either negotiate a post Brexit free trade agreement or we will reorient our economy toward our other friends, (Including the two biggest global economies – US and China).
The UK instead focusses on a short downtick that might occur due to tariffs that might occur, but the UK is a big market, they can play the same game, tax EU goods into Britain more than say Commonwealth countries, US and China. Brexit is worse for the EU than Britain, this is Britains advantage but instead they parade their anguish about “What might (not) happen” in front of the world, You don’t see Junker doing that.
The biggest telling point is that the hard brexit vote failed by ONLY 2 Votes, it would actually be easier to change that than to get May’s bad deal across the line. I’d be working on that!
Just as a point can someone in the UK tell us why the irish border couldn’t just be (with agreement) located within either the EU or Britain (or both) so that the customs line does not split Ireland and allows free movement within Ireland but not from/to Ireland/N. Ireland, this seems the proper solution to me.
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That’s because the main N.I. party (the DUP) objects to N.I. being treated differently than the rest of the UK. They can’t be ignored as the government has no majority without their votes.
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But I still don’t understand why the EU and UK can’t make Ireland a “dual system” IE Euro & Pound and have customs on the external border.
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What’s happened in Europe over the last 10 years is bizarre.
Not only Britain, but all of Europe, has been savaged by this deceit and madness and the false flag under which the Elites are operating is still in place.
Names of infamy: May, Macron, Merkel, Junker and the hundreds of functionaries helping to drain the life blood of so many trusting citizens.
Ugly stuff to contemplate.
KK
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The history of pan europeanism has been corrupted by the elites;always going to be so when power and influence is there for the taking. Nothing wrong with the old common market,but this monster of unelected spivs is very different .
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… and let’s add to the infamy list the execrable Tony Blair revealed recently to be briefing Macron on tactics to thwart Brexit.
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Tell me again what the virtues (outside of a protectionist customs union) of the EU are?
Oh yes, another layer of government, less accountable and more intrusive than any of its constituents were able to be.
Regulation, regulation, and more regulation.
Oh yes, and laws and taxes. No silicon valley in the ruhr? Charge & fine the big tech companies.
Protect some of the world’s least efficient farmers.
NO reason to go on. The experiment is already metastasizing, and trending badly. I doubt a majority in any
nation supports it today…which is was designed to be self referential and self-sustaining, symbiotic with the transnational elites
Europe has always suffered with.
The reality is: this marriage is over.
Keeping the Brits in merely will lead to further abuse.
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Well, you don’t have to worry about voting for the wrong group of people to make the actual decisions, especially since in the EU those people are unelected.
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A monumental stuff up! The only answer is sabotage. May has dealt her nation into an almost impossible position…deliberately!
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Indeed. It’s ironic to see a democracy like the UK try to become even more democratic by allowing the people to decide what to do about a major issue such as the EU yet the UK government and opposition try their best to act like conspiratorial dictators and dodge the decision of the people. It’s no wonder people are slowly waking up to the fact Western democracy is failing. The same applies here in Australia with regards to other important tissues, such as immigration, renewables and suicidal emission reduction plans by both major parties. No wonder too that more and more people are waking up and voting with their feet. It’s too slow though and it’s a race as to which will happen first; enough people wake up and stop voting for either major party to force some common sense back into the picture by way of minority parliaments so that the more sensible minor parties like the ACP can force the issue, or we crash and burn first. Time will tell.
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I think you are being too generous calling it a stuff up … that makes it sound like an accident. You don’t get to the top of the ruling party in a major economy without knowing how the game is played. At this stage the only reasonable conclusion is that Treason May (yes, that moniker seems appropriate IMO) as a Remoaner from the beginning has sought to undermine the BREXIT process from the start in collusion with the EU unelected bureaucrats. To attribute this to incompetence is far too generous an interpretation.
Each vote in the British Parliament regarding BREXIT has been an incremental subversion of the will of the people. It will not go well for the country if they try to push for a second referendum.
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Politics is always about power and who, once having power, wants to give it up? What I can’t quite see is where all the power resides and who will lose and gain what.
Other EU states have an incentive to not want the UK to leave but the UK has an obvious incentive to rue the day they joined up. So why are Theresa May and parliament gumming up the process of being free again? What exactly is at stake here and I’m not picking up on it. For the UK it should be a divorce made in heaven.
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@Roy
It has puzzled me also, for a long time.
My only contribution is that Brexit represents that difficult personal decision to give up subscribing to a club. Most health clubs exist not thanks to the participant members but by the members who show up for the week after New Year, but continue to pay into it for the rest of the year ‘just in case’.
Brexit is much the same. We pay over shed loads of money, few of us know what for and we don’t actually see any improvement in our personal circumstances. But what if we left? Could I change my mind and re subscribe? Of course we can, but that little objective detail, as usual, is lost in the subjective fear of loss.
That’s what Project Fear was before the referendum was held, and now the 29th is approaching fast, it’s being cranked up again.
No mention in the predominantly left wing MSM of the potential benefits of leaving. Nothing positive uttered by government. Even the announcement that for the first year 80%+ of import tariffs will be lifted making goods and services cheaper was met with “Yea, and then they are all reinstated”…..
80%+ of tariffs reapplied at the stroke of midnight after 365 days? The concept is idiotically juvenile. During year one of Brexit the international trading landscape will change. Tariffs will be under constant review as new countries do trade deals with us and that will stretch many years into the future. The tariffs we lift will be undoubtedly, predominantly European and our trading relationship with them will change overnight. How can we possibly reimpose Tariffs on goods we don’t import from a country we no longer deal with?
Project Fear at it’s moronic best!
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So if I was to suspect that the EU and Brexit both are good ideas just because they’re good ideas I might turn out to be right — something like Paris Hilton being famous just because she’s famous.
I know that’s not logical but it has a twisted ring of truth to it.
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@Roy Hogue
That’s about the size of it. A bit like socialism is a smashing idea, on paper, and every time it fails, “we’ll do it properly the next time, I have it written on a bit of paper”.
To be fair to Paris Hilton. She owns half the hotels in the world doesn’t she? On that basis she has a reasonable claim to fame.
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As long as she’s not shamelessly parading her body across my TV screen she does. But I think selling yourself so cheaply to the lowest bidder ill becomes the heir to half the world’s hotels.
Looking at it from a business point of view, her holdings put her somewhere on a par with Donald Trump, who by the way does not appear to be saint either. But any reasonable contrast you draw between the two leaves Trump on top every time.
I’ll let you be the judge but that’s my 2 cents worth.
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And lest anyone think I’m a prude or some kind of religious nut, I appreciate a good looking woman as much as any man. But I keep a firm grip on the fact that she’s a person, not an object.
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We’ll be waiting until the Conservative Party Conference in Manchester on September 29 to read Cameron’s reflections upon his deciding to have a referendum.
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I’ve no idea if this is true, but it is not the first time there have been rumours that we would stitched up and unBrexited fairly swiftly.
https://www.altnewsmedia.net/topical-news-general/the-bruges-group-article-they-dont-want-you-to-read/
Surely if it is so hard to leave, it cannot possibly be a democratic institution.
And even if we escaped the EU, then there is the UN………..
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Either we have a democracy as close as possible to the ideal where people’s say is acted upon by the politicians on all sides, or we have some kind of totalitarian oligarchy where the real power is in the hands of a few people from both major parties working against the wishes of the people. At the moment it appears the West in general is much closer to the latter.
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Same attitude in Australia fro0m both sides of politics, “stuff the peoples wishes ,This is how it will be so suck it up”
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Yet we need not need to “suck it up”. If only voters would wake up instead of sticking their heads in the sand only to have their backsides cut off.
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Agree Peter……
It is depressing to see what is indeed coming, but almost 50% of the population are still in “neutral” ..convinced this Country will continue with its ..unique layback way of life and freedoms.. for another 70yrs…!!
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Yeah but in the UN the UK sits on the Security Council whereas in the EU the nation is completely subordinated.
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I have researched that article: take it with a ton of salt.
For the record, I am a staunch Brexiteer thoroughly pi$$ed off by May’s deliberate killing of Brexit.
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I was odd that the chap said “There are growing concerns in Brussels of swathes of Eurosceptics being elected through British polls as Theresa May fails to deliver Brexit on time.”
MEPs have so little power that they have no effect of legislation going through the EU parliament!
Living in the UK, many do feel that the politicians have grossly overstepped their place,
Over 1.2 million people voted to leave more than those who voted to remain. They use the percentages to say it was a close vote: 52:48 but, 1.2+ million is quite a lot more votes….
I suspect that at the next general election most if no tall, MPs will loose their post. Lets hope so.
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Yes most if not all on both sides should lose their posts, just as is the case here in Australia as that would be the logical thing to do but voters in general are not logical. We get the government we deserve. Time will tell if the turning tide is big enough and quick enough to avoid a crash and burn. I personally doubt it but we can all live in hope.
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True of more than the UK, Believe me.
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Two years of negotiations are not enough?
27 democratic EU-nations with each a veto-vote agreed upon a 500+ page agreement with the UK government.
From a Dutch perpective the early influence of the UK parliament seems amazingly missing in the agreement.
No wonder the waves to rule are gone.
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The British empire is long gone. Just needs to be cremated. Should happen soon enough.
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& on the subject of who is working for whom [& a bit of classic transference]:-
While Uncle Paul is beating his breast about the Banking Royal Commission; wasn’t it the case that he & Aussie Bob were the ones who enthusiastically de-regulated the ownership of the Australian Banks [ at the same time they floated the $A]?
Gee I don’t know but if, say perchance, that Wall St. & Threadneedle St. own a big enough chunk of the Big 4 Banks;
would the RBA, Treasury or the government really set monetary policy or set the rules?
It would be nice to think that our elected representatives were working for us. /sarc.
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May reminds of that real estate agent who tells the buyer that the seller will take a lot less than the asking price.
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ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
United Kingdom means precisely what it suggests. The unity (United) between a number of countries, each formerly presided over by a separate King (Kingdom). Through political and military means (and in Scotland’s case, financial rescue) they all agreed to unite under one flag, adopt a single Parliament and conform to the same laws.
A bit like the US really, except we did it first. 🙂
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The EU basically decides what England can and can’t do and it amazes me they were able to keep the “Pound” when the EU determines pretty much everything else .
I wouldn’t even be surprised if the EU tells them what ply dunny paper they can and can’t use .
No wonder the poms want their country back .
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Robert! It is the UK (United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland) not “England”. The island of “Greater Britain” includes Scotland and Wales. The entity of “Ireland” was known as Lesser Britain. Thus the “British Isles”. Here endeth my geography lesson.
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That’s always been a PIA for me. What really defines “Britain”, “England” and “United Kingdom”? When I see people in movies toasting: “For England!” I get utterly confused. The issue seems full of treaties, contracts, political paper-shuffling and lines drawn on a map but not on the ground. Not being contentious, but sure it’s a geography issue Pete?
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It’s not just geographical, but historical. England and Scotland, for example, are separate countries (not ‘States’ in the same country, like Australia). They always have been and not till the Union of the Crowns did they come under one King (a Scot – Edward the Sixth of Scotland and First of England – Our Current Queen is actually Elizabeth the Second of England and First of Scotland) thus the “United Kingdom”. I know it’s very confusing for non Brits, but trust me, if you call a Scot “English” you will get your head in your hands to play with! Many people refer to the UK as “England” but, in actuality, that only refers to the bit south of the Scottish border.
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Peter,
Being a Scot, albeit a few generations removed from Scotland I’m fascinated by these little details. The original spelling of my name was Hogge, not Hogue and it was changed only after my grandfather became tired of being called hog according to family history. Ironically perhaps, when I did a little research into Hogge I fond out that it comes from the fact that my ancestors were hog farmers.
I remember using England once when I meant UK and I did get my head handed to me to play with.
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I forgot to mention anther irony — in spite of granddad’s effort, his grandson was called hog anyway.
There are some things you just can’t escape and apparently the hog is one of them.
Good eating though.
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I recall seeing an exchange, that I was not part of, on an internet forum once: ” Do not call me an Englishman, I am British not English.”
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I still find it hard to believe the official language of England isn’t English .
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“The entity of “Ireland” was known as Lesser Britain.”
My understanding is that it is Brittany in France to which that term applies.
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May would have gone to the Tower if it had been during Henry VIIIs time….
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@PeterPetrum
You aint seen nuthin yet. Scotland now levies a penny in the pound higher income tax than the rest of the UK. And they are after more!
Edinburgh is introducing a tourist tax to cover the infrastructure needed for to accommodate tourists. £1 a night per hotel room I gather. The fact that there would be no infrastructure now were it not for the already hard working tourists seems to escape them. But I guess the prospect of gazing out over vista’s of wind turbines will surely make the extra charge well worthwhile to the tourists. After all, they couldn’t possibly see them in their own country.
I’m also a Scot’s refugee, living in SE England. I want to retire back home but sadly, I think I’ll venture as far as the English side of the border.
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Cumbria is good HotScot, as are Yorkshire (God’s own county) and Durham and Northumberland.
If you can find somewhere without a vista of blighted bat and bird killers, that is.
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@Annie,
I’m considering them all as we speak. Cumbria is in pole because we have relatives on the West coast of Scotland.
I travel across the border regularly to visit them. Consider yourself lucky wherever you are (presumably Yorkshire) as the proliferation of wind turbines as soon as you cross the border from England into Scotland is dramatic.
The insane SNP are determined to leave a legacy of land and community destruction by wind farm. The country is infested with them. It rather exemplifies the SNP itself, a 14th Century solution to solve a 21st Century problem.
If wind turbines are the ‘cheap’, ‘reliable’ solution to energy policy the left climate alarmists claim, why isn’t Africa covered in them?
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They have an … interesting accent in Yorkshire 🙂
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As a longtime departed Scot it pains me to see what is happening in my own homeland. As if May’s dastardly prevarication was not enough, Scotland is encumbered with a Socialist Governemnt headed by an out and out Marxist that not only wants to stay in the EU but want to cover that magnificent country in Golden Eagle destroying wind turbines.
I recently saw a photograph of Stirling Castle, perched on its crag and tail, looking magnificent, while behind it on the beautiful hills were dozens of these monstrosities.
Such sadness that the UK has degraded to this.
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Just wait until they catch fire – it’ll be a Guy Fawkes spectacle especially at night. In some ways, if they had broken and missing blades they’d look better, at least to those of us that ain’t green.
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we have our own concerns! read all:
18 Mar: AFR Op-ed: Voters have not been told the full story on cost of carbon
by Brian Fisher
(Dr Brian Fisher is managing director of BAEconomics and has participated as a lead or convening lead author in three IPCC climate assessments)
Anyone who believes that Australia can significantly reduce its greenhouse gas emissions over the next decade without major economic cost is seriously misinformed.
At the political level, the avoidance of discussion about the real costs of climate policy is an ongoing source of frustration to me as an economist who has been engaged in this area since 1992.
And with another federal election looming, how can voters be expected to make informed choices about transformative climate policy if they are not told the full story?…
To better inform the debate about the costs of abatement, BAEconomics for the first time has modelled the economic impacts of six different scenarios for meeting the respective targets of the two major parties. In all scenarios we have assumed the least cost way of meeting the targets and that other countries meet their targets.
Tellingly, our work shows that under any scenario there is a notable economic cost in terms of reduced GNP, job losses and lower real wages compared to what otherwise would have occurred. The cumulative GNP loss out to 2030 ranges between $A80 billion and $A1.2 trillion and job losses in 2030 range between 78,000 and 586,000 depending on the approach. Real wages will also be reduced by 2 per cent at the lower end up to 23 per cent…
The government’s reduction target, results in an estimated shadow carbon price of $A92/t CO2e. By comparison, meeting the opposition’s heftier targets would result in a carbon price of $A326/t CO2e if it also adopts the Kyoto carryover provisions. Without using the carryover that price would more than double to $A696…
https://www.afr.com/news/economy/voters-have-not-been-told-the-full-story-on-cost-of-carbon-20190318-h1ci5r
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read all – blame Abbott:
19 Mar: AFR: Labor climate target risks 336,000 jobs
by Tom McIlroy
Labor’s planned 45 per cent cut to Australia’s carbon emissions could hit the economy more than three times harder than Coalition climate policies, costing 336,000 jobs and causing an 8 per cent drop in wages under a worst-case scenario.
New analysis of the major parties’ climate policies suggests Australia’s “shadow carbon price” would be somewhere between $97 and $326 per tonne of carbon in 2030 under Labor, depending on the carryover of credits from the Kyoto climate agreement, compared with between $263 and $92 under the Coalition.
Output from energy-intensive manufacturing, mining, transport and gas production would be hit the hardest, according to the report from BAEconomics, to be released on Tuesday…
Wholesale electricity prices would increase by $93 by 2030 under the Coalition and $128 under Labor…
Output would drop in almost every industry under both plans by 2030. Thermal coal output would drop by 21.2 per cent under the Coalition and 44 per cent under Labor, ahead of falls in metallurgical coal of 4.8 per cent under the Coalition and 13.2 per cent under Labor…
His report was peer-reviewed by Stanford University’s Professor John Weyant…
https://www.afr.com/news/policy/climate/labor-climate-target-risks-336-000-jobs-20190318-p5153j
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Thanks pat for those two links.
Very interesting indeed !
Bill
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Climate change has a life all its own now and argument about the science doesn’t enter into it. It’s all about being one of the boys, an insider and playing the right game.
Damn virtue signaling anyway.
20 years ago much of the worlds coastline that’s still high and dry was going to be under water in less than 10 years, etc., etc., etc. But it was all BS.
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A no deal Brexit is like the Year 2000 computer problem.
Lots of hype and horror stories,
but once it happens there will be almost no problems and business as usual.
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My view entirely. With any luck it’ll be no deal on 29 March if I read Bercow and Italy aright.
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A view often held by people outside IT
You seriously think everyone did nothing and it all turned out hunkey dorey because happinstance?
or
If I dont see the problem it doesnt exist
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yarpos: The Point is that the world was going to end and most of the ignorant public, politicians and the rest bought it.
It was always garbage.
True there were a few problems, in particular the world’s biggest mainframe computer base held glaring glitches but these had always been known: the designers were a laughing stock long before 2000.
Many computer systems had far more sophisticated date storage and manipulation and were never a problem: I can still remember the subroutine names in both architectures to which I allude!
The main lesson to learn from the millenium bug was that it wasn’t a problem. Nor will a clean Brexit be.
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@Mardler
I had to laugh at the millennium bug scare. I did a simplistic user experiment well before the strike of midnight and set the date and time to a minute after, nothing happened. It was a newish PC so fair enough.
However, I had a mate who was a pilot on Jumbo’s at the time with a major carrier. He told me he had been involved with experimental flights for years where the planes computers were absolutely convinced they were in the 21st Century. Strangely enough, nothing untoward happened. Some of the Jumbo’s used in the trials were so old their flight control hardware and software dated back to the stone age (his words, not mine).
During the run up to the whole event I spoke to people who simply didn’t believe me so I just kept quite.
I now look at Remain ‘believers’ in the Brexit referendum with the same bewilderment and amusement. Do they imagine the UK is going to drop off the face of the earth because we decide not to participate in a political union we were assured would never exist when we joined the Common Market in the 1970’s.
I tell my kids all I did in 2016 was rectify a mistake I had made in the 1970’s. They look at me like I’m mad.
LOL…..Whatever did we do for 800 years before we joined the EU.
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The old misnomer again HotScot, the 21st Century began after midnight on the thirty-first of December in the year 2000.
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The old misnomer again HotScot; the 21st Century began after midnight on the thirty-first of December in the year 2000 when twenty centuries had been completed.
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Er, that was the point!
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My dear Antipodeans cousins,
I hate to tell you this, but whatever you think about Brexit, you can quadruple it.
The last week or so has driven us to a point where our Parliament is left with three choices.
1) A No Deal Exit from the EU
2) Mrs May’s very, very bad deal (two very’s because it has been voted as such by MP’s on two occasions) Also known as the Withdrawal agreement (WA)
3) Brexit cancelled.
Mrs May chanted “Leave means Leave” in order that the Conservative party was elected in the midst of this fiasco. She told us clearly “No Deal is better than a Bad Deal” yet she has tabled a deal in the House of Commons (HoC) that is so bad, it was overturned by a majority never previously witness. Not to be deterred, she tabled it again a week or so later after some political chicanery for it to be defeated again, not as convincingly this time but not far short.
So, now she knows, her deal is not just a bad deal, but the “Worst Deal In History” according to the Brexit Architect in chief, Nigel Farage. It would tie us into the EU with no representation in their parliament yet we would be obliged to hand over shed loads of money. That money could be (will likely be) used to furnish the EU with a standing army. And guess who pulls the financial and political strings in the EU? Yep, Germany.
And I’m sorry, but history teaches us lessons we would be remiss to ignore. As nice as individual Germans are, they are a warring nation. I wouldn’t trust them with a pea shooter far less the facilities to wage cross border war once again. They have had designs on Russian, resource rich lands, for hundreds of years, I don’t imagine for a nanosecond they wouldn’t move to secure them given the opportunity.
So the WA is a non starter, but Mrs. May is determined to bulldoze it through.
However, I’ll leave that now and look at the alternatives, one of which is potentially far more serious. No, not a No Deal Brexit, but the withdrawal of Article 50, which the UK can do unilaterally, and which would tie us into the
UK[EU]. [correction by ED as per author]So let me ask you guys this question. Were Australia and New Zealand to vote to leave the UK (an option often considered) and remove that Union Flag from your national flags, would you be happy, irrespective of which way you voted, for your government to overturn your democratic decision to remove it, and instead, at your Parliaments behest, remain part of the UK?
Because that’s the threat posed by Mrs. May revoking article 50, which she can do, and keeping us in the EU, contrary to the will of the voters.
But worst of all, if Mrs. May takes the decision to revoke article 50, it means that the source of global Parliamentary Democracy surrenders Democracy to Parliament itself. In other words, Democracy in the UK is dead and a group of well paid, privileged politicians take over the country to run it as they see fit.
The UK developed the Parliamentary process by which Democracy is managed. Australia, New Zealand, America and every other civilised country in the world adopted it as a safe haven for the principle of Democracy. It’s not perfect, but it’s the best system we have discovered so far, except we have all let politicians get out of hand by one single, simple premise. Every time you utter the phrase “The government ought to do something about that” is the moment you hand your right to act over to a proxy acting on your behalf, by their rules.
That’s what we have done in the UK and that’s why we are in this mess. Well, not entirely, because not one dickhead Poly, or Civil Servant, actually considered that referenda are entirely unsuited to our Parliamentary Democracy. No one thought to stick their hand up and say “this is going to cause trouble” despite the greatest political minds supposedly resting in the UK…..well, perhaps they were resting, because they didn’t do a sodding thing about it.
And the result of Article 50 being revoked? Every rabid socialist and antifa activist will be celebrating the demise of Capitalism and Democratic politics Marx predicted. That disease will spread like wildfire, right across the globe to the beautiful Antipodes.
Your own Democracy will be under threat, as will America’s, from the blight of the bungled, simple process of leaving the EU which should have already been consigned to a footnote in the pages of British history, but which is now threatening global Democracy.
The final option is for Parliament to respect the will of the nation, and implement the result of the referendum. Leave with ‘No Deal’ – 100% out the EU.
The referendum was a binary choice, Leave the EU 100% or Remain in the EU 100%. We ‘Leavers’ have been told we were to stupid to make the decision to Leave and that Remainers weren’t given the full facts of what Leave meant. But they voted leave, they made their decision on the best information they had to hand. By their very action of voting they agreed to the principle of Democracy. Well, so did I. My argument is that it’s up to everyone voting to inform themselves of what they are voting for. For whatever reason Leavers decided they had enough information to make an informed decision, so they did.
The binary choice was simple. If we voted to stay in the EU we would do so 100%. No arguments, no negotiations because the vote was closely contested, nothing. We would be in the EU 100%. But the country voted Leave, by a small majority, but it was a majority. Our expectation was that we left 100%. same deal as Remain expected, but our options now are as I listed at the beginning of this, 50/50 Leave, No Brexit or No Deal.
How about that for Democracy, a binary choice produces three options (there were more but most seem to have gone, for now). And politicians wonder why they are hated?
Pin this post up as a source of inspiration, or ridicule, I don’t care which. But come back to it in ten years time, and if Article 50 is revoked, you might just wonder why you didn’t say something at the time.
Brexit is now a global Democratic battle. If you have any influence whatsoever, please write to your government and demand that they intervene and insist that the democratic will of British voters is respected 100%, or risk the failure of Democracy rolling over on you.
Thanks.
HotScot.
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She should be in the Tower at Her Majs pleasure….
Nuff said.
10
“However, I’ll leave that now and look at the alternatives, one of which is potentially far more serious. No, not a No Deal Brexit, but the withdrawal of Article 50, which the UK can do unilaterally, and which would tie us into the UK.”
That should be ‘tie us into the EU’
40
Who or what are you quoting????
[Himself stuck in moderation and now free.]ED
10
See my comment #24.2 for problems with an Article 50 revocation.
30
Thomas Jefferson
70
For absolutely the best current commentary and detailed analysis of the Brexit situation you really need to see this site:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE3181Md63Eg7uTybf6HgNw/videos
I’m a bit of a Brexit fanatic and I’ve been following his analysis for months. The situation is much more complex than the post above would indicate. Time is pretty much the only weapon the Brexiteers have on their side now to enable a default WTO Brexit to take place. If Italy or Poland or Hungary blocks an extension to Article 50 there is almost nothing the Remainers can do now to halt a WTO exit because it takes so long to get all the opposing legislation through parliament and then get royal assent, but they are still going full-tilt.
The Queen could of course stop all this anti-democratic skulduggery at the stroke of a pen by simply proroguing parliament until after the 29th March, by which time the anti-Brexit manoeuvrings would become redundant. She prorogues parliament on a regular basis anyway. She has been petitioned to do so, but not by the PM obviously. If she won’t use her constitutional powers to preserve democracy then what is the use of her? A rubber stamp for tyranny?
May has had 3 years, not 2, to get this sorted if she really any intention to do so. Let’s not forget she postponed even invoking Article 50 (to leave) for a year after the referendum in 2016. It is now widely reported that Merkel authored the Brexit deal agreed to by May during a secret meeting the pair had in 2018. Merkel pulls the strings in the EU and the likes of Tusk and Verhoffstadt and Juncker dance to her tune. It was a complete stitch-up from the beginning as soon as May got the PM job after Boris was knifed in the back.
Then we’ve had other verified recordings of British senior civil servants briefing foreign diplomats in London while keeping the British MPs in the dark and then boasting about it. It’s David against Goliath; the people against the establishment. Former PM and traitorous scumbag Tony Blair has been acting as advisor to foreign governments in how best to defeat Brexit. Blair was the PM who took treason off the British law books — lucky for him or he’d be dangling from the Tower by now as would hundreds of his cronies from parliament and the civil service and the BBC. It’s interesting to go back over old episodes of Yes Minister from 25 years ago and to see just how astute and insightful on the EU they were and still are.
A couple of salient points to note:
• If Britain fails to Brexit it will be compelled to join the Eurozone by 2022 and scrap the pound. Disaster.
• It will be immediately compelled to hand over command of its military to the EU crooks. Germany has already taken over command of armed forces from the Czech Republic and Romania, 1 brigade strength from each in the name of the EU army as part of its power grab. Germany is also combining elements of its military with its police to form a paramilitary force to combat terrorists and internal dissent. If this doesn’t ring the alarm bells, nothing will.
Brexit is the last best chance for the west. This is quite literally the front line for freedom in the world. If Brexit fails the rest of us will go down like dominos in due course. The Donald bought us some time but we need Britain to survive as a sovereign nation, then watch the EU crumble from within with an avalanche of break-aways. GO BREXIT!!!!
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This points out so many of the dangers and sly betrayals of May’s Brexit fiddling. The “deal” is almost daring in its treachery. Thanks for monitoring all this.
I wonder where the EU will find lots of military-age males for its armed forces. Not so many Rheinische farm boys available these days. Hmmm…
Hundreds of thousands of unemployed military aged males…let me think now…
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The 3rd Reich had no problems recruiting divisions of just such “foreign fighters” in WW2, the old ways are not forgotten.
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Yes, in WW2 there were many diverse legions of SS troops, all willing to do Hitlers insane bidding.
A lesser known contingent, allied along interesting lines : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Skanderbeg
10
beowulf: That’s a pageful of clips of which the first is a black screen error. The second comes up as a Jeff Taylor – is this your man?
Good post, btw.
20
Jeff Taylor is the best regular commentator I have found. Generally posts twice per day with the latest developments which is important when things are developing by the minute. Gives an in-depth balanced analysis. I use many others as well but he’s the main site.
10
Well, I watched several minutes and was unimpressed.
10
“• If Britain fails to Brexit it will be compelled to join the Eurozone by 2022 and scrap the pound. Disaster.
• It will be immediately compelled to hand over command of its military to the EU crooks. ”
Wrong.
Please provide evidence. NB: it is not the Lisbon Treaty.
10
The elites.
They aren’t shrinking violets.
Their contemptible hate for brexit loving deplorables is palpable …
DAVOS, Switzerland — At a closed-door session at the World Economic Forum, one of the panelists asked the self-styled global elite in the audience a question: How many of you think Donald Trump won’t even finish one term in the White House?
About half the hands shot up.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-fear-and-loathing-in-da*vos/
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Lovely story; don’t you wish you’d been there to laugh at the Trump Deranged?
30
Showing that guvuhmint should be small and close by and accountable to its electors:
BREXIT, a betrayal of the referendum,
Turnbull coup, stab in the back of elected leader and elected policy,
U.S. Deep Dark State, seeking to impeach by covert ploys the nation’s elected President.
U.N. attempts by globalist un-elected decision-makers to impose international treaties formulated
without our say so, that overthrow the sovereignty of the nation state.
EU allow entry of a swarm of unchecked immigrants within its borders without approval of its citizens.
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You need to review the history of Turnbull MP including his undermining of the Howard Government when he was a cabinet minister, and then his undermining of Opposition Leader Nelson before replacing him as leader. And then as leader his poor leadership and lack of judgement that ended with him being replaced by Abbott MP who was drafted and by a narrow margin voted in as the new leader.
And then Opposition Leader Abbott led the Coalition to almost defeating Labor at the 2010 Federal Election forcing them into an alliance minority government.
At the 2013 Federal Election the Abbott led Coalition defeated Labor in a landslide victory.
Abbott was undermined (relentless negativity) from when he was voted in as leader in 2009 until (and beyond, continuing) September 2015 when he replaced as PM by Turnbull, who then in 2016 at the Federal Election lost all of the new seats won at the 2013 Federal Election.
There was no coup, no stab in the back for PM Turnbull, he realised his time was up when challenged by Dutton MP and he decided to run, resigned as PM and retired immediately from Parliament leaving the Coalition Government without his critical vote as MP for Wentworth.
As the website stopturnbull clearly reveals, long before Turnbull became an MP he wanted to get rid of the Coalition and to form a single governing party with Labor and Greens.
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Bt the way, when Labor replaced PM Rudd with PM Gillard the Opposition Leader Turnbull lectured them saying in Parliament that no PM in a governments first term in office should be replaced. That was 2009.
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Dennis, yes, to make my post clearer,coup *by* Turnbull, his stab in the back of Abbott.
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serf
In the context of your post, it was clear what you were saying.
But with written English you have to be so precise.
For example: In the last sentence I was complaining, not giving advice.
And definitions ..OMG.. Ask a group of people for a definition for ‘socialism’ and you’ll get ten different answers.
Depending on their ideological view point, intelligence or from which source they decided to cut and paste from the internet.
George Orwell The Road to Wigan Pier
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Yep, thinking fast,writing fast.( ‘Definitions,’ herewith in my latest blog post, ‘Slavery Begins the the Mind, an Essay on Propaganda,’ Gurus want to change something into a thing other than itself, so have to mess with Aristotle’s Laws of logic and nature.
First law of logic is the Law of Identity. A thing is what it is and is no other thing. As in the logic of mathematics, 1=1, does not = 2 or = 3, so in reality of nature, a thing is itself and not some other thing, A=A, can’t be B or C.
Reasoning is uniquely possible to Homo sapiens by virtue of words, our tools of cognition. A word is a symbol with a definition and that means careful definition, ‘definition,’ the set of properties or characteristics that distinguish a thing from all other things, a distinct set of implications.’
For Homo sapiens, inventors of descriptive and critical language, consciousness is identification, the quest for non- contradictory identification. ‘What’ is it?
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Hi serf
I see it as 2 main factors involved here.
:
1. A can be anything.
Where reason is considered impotent, reality is subjective.
An epistemological nightmare.
:
2. A is A …but…
Reason is accepted as the valid method of knowledge, but
contradictions are allowed to permeate the logic in involved, introduced by bias, beliefs, faiths, emotion and/or egos.
:
A is A sets a very high pedestal.
Frederic Bastiat Government
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Science methodology, a human creation of critical thinking as with Galileo and Feynman, contradictions via yr tests tell you something is false, like nature’s trial and error, Darwin Award for getting it right is life.. It’s objective method, deliberative thinking,* gurus wanna pe*vert it to control you. Don’t get to build a bridge or fly to the moon via subjective lizard brain quick ‘ fight or flight’ response, good in the jungle. One emotion that’s really good is curiosity.
*There’s a nice example of deliberative thinking I came upon re James Watt walking up Charlotte St thinking about Newcomen’s steam engine , trying to solve the problem of inefficiency from wasted steam:
‘I was thinking upon the engine at the time when the idea came into my mind that as steam was an elastic body it would rush into a vacuum, and if a communication were made between the cylinder and an exhausted vessel, it would rush into it and thereby be condensed without cooling the cylinder… I had not walked further than the golf-house when the thing was strong in my mind.’
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Hi Jack,
Agree re yr subjective, A can be anything.so one ‘opinion’ is as good as another, enter stage left, yr madman who says that the universe is a poached egg, or yr gurus at Davos creating a globalist utopia by way of ‘occupying their heads’ education programs to make over students into social justice warriors, George Soros, Manifesto ‘Open’ Society, (200)), ‘encumbered individuals.’ … now there’s a logically fraught definition fer a serf, the individual as a means to an end.
20
This is why we must have a Right of Recall, so that there is a process EXTERNAL to government to bring these idiots to task. I do not believe that the much touted “Citizen Initiated Referendum”is adequately outside the political sphere of influence to allow the true wishes of the electorate to be applied.
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Socialism & Globalism.
It was reported that Christian Socialist and former UK PM Tony Blair has been guiding the EU on how to negotiate with the UK Government and since Christian Socialist and former Oz PM Kevin Rudd has been reported encouraging the EU to block BREXIT.
I understand that former OZ PM Malcolm Turnbull also favours no BREXIT.
On the other hand President Trump has tried to advise the UK PM on how to negotiate for BREXIT.
Australians need to consider who we vote for in the Federal Election in May 2019 and not allow the socialists globalists to continue selling our nation out.
From The Weekend Australian …
“This week Business Council of Australia chief Jennifer Westacott played the reality card on Labor’s 45-50 per cent targets for emissions and renewables: “We don’t have a plan to do this.
How are we going to do this? If it’s economy wide, what is the mechanism by which we (Labor) are going to do this? Is it a cap and trade system? Is it the national energy guarantee? Is it a base-loading credit system? Are we going to exempt the trade-exposed sector?
Are we going to allow the ‘carry over’ for Kyoto?
I think the Australian people are entitled to understand how these things will be achieved. This is the history of the problem – people say stuff, then they try to implement it and everyone goes ‘Oh, hang on, we didn’t mean for those jobs to be gone’ – now we’ll have to have a compensation scheme. Then we stop and then we go backwards and then we make no progress. This is the history.”
Yet nothing Westacott said – policy realities that must be faced by any Shorten government – impinge on the current climate change mantras that dominate our public debate. Just listen to the independent progressives crusading on climate change in leafy Liberal seats to grasp how much this debate has regressed over the past 15 years.
They talk endlessly about saving the planet and the urgency for Australia to do more, as though the policy and political obstacles of the past 15 years never happened….”
The Weekend Australian
Paul Kelly
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@beowulf
Theresa May can revoke article 50 tomorrow and right up until the stroke of 11 pm on the 29th. It would see us staying in the EU. It would be a disaster for global democracy, but it is a threat she is wielding.
That pretty well puts paid to your YouTube analysis.
I think you pretty well repeated everything else I said, for which I’m grateful, but I’m not convinced it needed repeating.
I could have gone into a great deal more depth but for the sake of brevity, and not boring everyone to tears, I kept it short and sweet.
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Brexit without a deal is the most likely option.
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Fingers crossed.
90
It isn’t.
A very long delay is most likely, closely followed by revocation of A50.
00
Ah, where did I repeat ANYTHING you said? (Apparently you were stuck in moderation for 3 hours. We had no idea your post #17 existed.) You need to watch that “Your comment is awaiting moderation” sign. Your apology is accepted.
As to Article 50 revocation, only the good fairy with her magic wand can now enable that in the time available before the 29th. Theoretical possibilities and actual parliamentary possibilities are not the same thing.
A revocation of Article 50 requires a new UK statute to be introduced, debated, passed and assented to before 29/3/19, which itself not feasible, PLUS concomitant UE legislation by the MEPs to enable it. It is NOT unilateral. These are physical impossibilities in the time frame of 10 days especially since the UE is busy with MEP election preparations, which also complicate UK matters further if Britain delays and therefore has to have EU elections as well. The EU has already reallocated British EU seats to other countries and prepared for the elections on that basis. Thank for your own analysis, with that minor flaw.
The Speaker has just sunk May’s awful deal, so it’s all up in the air again. Wait and see what the Dirty Tricks Department comes up with next. Cheers.
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I didn’t express myself at all well above because I was in a rush and a huff.
May cannot unilaterally end the Article 50 process without a new Act of parliament as I stated (poorly). What was created by parliament must be un-created by parliament and that will be a very drawn-out process. The parliamentarians will be fighting like cats and dogs and it will take forever. The Bill to leave Brexit was expected to take at least 6 months to get through both Houses. This one will not get through in a few days. Rees-Mogg and his boys will be slinging every obstacle in its path and using every trick of procedure to delay it.
As a consequence of possibly not leaving, further Acts for UK MEP elections would also be required immediately, since the UK has already repealed all Acts relating to EU elections in anticipation of no longer needing them. These too would have to be rushed through because the closing date for MEP candidate nominations is mid-April and the EU has stated that the UK must participate in the elections like everyone else if it is still in the EU, however tenuously. The EU is not prepared for that and may have to vote to enable the UK MEPs to take their place in the EP.
It is not as simple as reinstating the old electoral Acts either. With Brexiteers likely to poll very well in any upcoming elections, the Remainers are keen to lower the voting age in the new legislation relating to those elections to gain an advantage. This too will be fought over tooth and nail in parliament and don’t hold your breath waiting for an outcome. This may yet require an extension of the Article 50 period which itself is almost certain to be vetoed or delayed by other EU states, which brings you back to square one.
This is only the tip of the iceberg of legislative manoeuvring that would have to take place to axe Article 50. As I said, what can happen in theory, is caught up in a log jam in practice. None of this takes into account any other ploys that May or the Speaker can dream up. They are desperate and will try anything. The Queen had better have her prorogation pen ready, because I think she might need it at short notice. She can prorogue at the end of a day’s sitting (the normal procedure), or if things get nasty, she can send a lackey/herald to declaim the prorogation to parliament, which takes immediate effect and ends all business.
The deeper you look into it, the more complex it becomes to try to Remain, and all these shenanigans only have 10 days to play out in their entirety or WTO Brexit just happens.
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HS: spot on. All that it needs is for Bercow to allow another try by Remain MPs to gain control pf Parliament and the EUWA will be made void by secondary legislation.
30
Furthermore, beowulf is wrong about the need for a new Act.
00
Like any paleo-con, I like the idea of Brexit. But we need to ask what it really is for.
It was sort-of mooted by Cameron, to be sort-of implemented by May. A leading figure all along has been Farage, a bloke who is rather good at catching one’s attention (right, Mr Van Rompuy?).
Why would globalists open the door, though never wide enough, for Brexit, and why would Farage, a finance man from the cradle, become the populist, rough-and-tumble front man? And pay-for-play Blair tugging back just enough?
The answer may lie in the world’s most critical, most juicy square mile, the City of London. Never mind the quaintness. It looks quaint for the City to have its own force, its own parliamentary reps, its own privileges with regard to receiving the Queen etc. But it’s the world’s biggest financial centre, the most secretive, the most tentacular and most influential. It’s a world within a country while trying to look like something on an antique Monopoly board.
Switzerland isn’t even in the EU but those euro-commies keep coming at Zurich and the gnomes. Think they’re going to restrain themselves with the City long-term?
We think of globalism as a pyramidal secret society with a Mr Burns at the top, under an all-seeing eye. In fact, it’s a grouping of crime families, and Brexit represents a brawl between crime families. Yes, there is a cultural chasm between a Farage and a Van Rompuy. But there’s also a juicy bone between them: control of the world’s biggest financial centre. My guess is that certain parties in Britain and elsewhere want to buy time for the City, not so much independence for the “cloud bolted” nation around it. Never mind loss of Empire, Indian partition and all that. This is serious!
Doesn’t mean I won’t be cheering for Brexit and for the likes of Farage. It just means that things are not what they seem. When have they ever been?
Go Brexit anyway!
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@mosomoso
Brexit wasn’t “sort of mooted” by Cameron, he called the referendum. Not was it a spur of the moment thing, the debate has been going on since we joined the Common Market in the 70’s.
40
Yes, I said “sort-of mooted”, no I didn’t say it was a spur of the moment thing. Why would I say that? There has been calculation in all of this. Not clear from what I just wrote?
My point is that Cameron was interested in the very instability we see now for the protection of interests we don’t get to see. Stable relations between the City and Brussels are not wanted by the City unless that means hands-off, most unlikely with euro-commies getting more controlling, nervous and hungry by the day.
Globalists are united by a common pseudo-religion, not by common strategies and methods. Juncker and May share a globalist outlook, but who gets to plunder what is still up in the air.
I like the idea of Brexit, but cheer squads should be restricted to sports grounds on weekends only.
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@mosomoso
“no I didn’t say it was a spur of the moment thing.”
That’s what you implied by leaving out the 40 year history of the subject.
“The City” determines it’s own relations, Brussels is inconsequential to it. The City can move anywhere in the world it wants to. It was encouraged into the UK by Thatchers light touch regulation, when that ceases, the City packs it’s bags and leaves.
“euro-commies” dance to the tune of their paymasters i.e. the City of London or any other financial giant. If they get too greedy, guess what? The City packs it’s bags.
I’m sorry, but your analysis is unnecessarily conspirational. Sure, there are wheels within wheels but to suggest there’s a carve up of land and resources going on is bizarre. Italy and Ireland are on the verge of following Brexit and the former Soviet Eastern members have their own alliance within the EU to negotiate the best terms for them. None of this is controllable by Brussels, far less Junker and May.
No one could predict Brexit and no one can predict the fallout, how do you expect a conspiracy to work on that basis?
10
Notice how Brexit has proceeded? Let’s hope I’m wrong.
20
Brexit has been stymied so far because the majority of MP’s who want to remain in the EU, simple as that. A referendum was called which is entirely incompatible with Parliamentary Democracy as it exists in the UK today.
Everyone assumed remaining in the EU was a forgone conclusion, and it was until Obama opened his mouth and uttered “Back of the queue” when the polls did an about face and Brexit went from slam dunk remain to a marginal Leave majority, which it retained.
No one could possibly have predicted the damage Obama’s words would have on the Remain referendum expectation. Indeed, it was thought the opposite would happen and Obama’s words would add to project fear thereby sealing the Leave movements fate.
Are you trying to suggest that Obama’s interference was designed by Remainer MP’s to turn the result into a Leave victory just so we could have the protracted exit we are suffering?
Is that your [SNIP] theory?
[Ease up HotScot] ED
21
“Are you trying to suggest that Obama’s interference was designed by Remainer MP’s to turn the result into a Leave victory just so we could have the protracted exit we are suffering?”
Obama’s interference designed by Remainer MP’s? It’s getting very hard to have a discussion with someone who constantly argues against claims that were never made. Impossible, even.
Time for a HotScotxit.
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@mosomoso
Your conspiracy obsession includes anything you want, at a moments notice.
Including Obama’s ill considered and bungled intervention is an illustration of how conspiracy theories fall apart rather rapidly.
Next time I’ll spell it out Janet and John style.
20
I heard Cameron allowed the UKIP referendum partly as a deal if he got support on the Gay marriage vote. He miscalculated that The People might vote for it. He thought it would be defeated and then the UKIP problem would go away for a while.
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Dennis
Tony Blair is not a Christian socialist. He is a socialist politician who decided that Catholicism was his preferred religion. I’m not sure if it was before of after he bombed the living bejesus out of Iraq, but there you go.
70
Christians on the Left, formerly known as the Christian Socialist Movement (CSM), is a socialist society in the UK. The movement fulfils a need among Christian socialists for an organisation that would be both politically engaged and theologically reflective.
The CSM was an amalgamation of the Society of Socialist Clergy and Ministers and the Socialist Christian League. Founded in 1960, it affiliated to the Labour Party in 1988. It was a volunteer organisation until 1994 when it appointed a co-ordinator, followed by an administrator. In August 2013, it announced that, following a consultation with its members, it would be changing its name to Christians on the Left.
R. H. Tawney made one of his last public appearances at the Movement’s inaugural meeting on 22 January 1960.
Donald Soper chaired the Movement until becoming its President in 1975.
Members have also included Labour leaders John Smith, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. Today, Christians on the Left has over 40 members in the House of Commons and House of Lords.
As of 14 March 2018, its director was Louise Davies; its executive committee chair was Jonathan Reynolds; and its two vice chairs were Shona Elliott and Hannah Rich.[3]
Christians on the Left is a member organisation of the International League of Religious Socialists.
Wikipedia
These people are usually also members of the Fabian Society of socialists, including politicians members of the Australian Fabian Society here.
60
Wow!
You can Google Christian socialists. I’m impressed.
Tony Blair never campaigned politically as a Christian socialist. He may have been a member as a separate organisation but it had nothing whatsoever to do with the Labour party he led other than socialism happened to be a common theme. he was probably a member of the Cubs and the Scouts, perhaps a member of Netflix even.
There may well be 40 members across the Commons and the Lords, it doesn’t however represent a political movement. Any idea how many Masons there are in the HoC and HoL? Do they form a political movement? And I’ll bet you there are an awful lot more Masons than there are Christian socialists.
You’re another one with conspiracy theories on the brain. How do these people actually get time to do anything if they are constantly attending ‘Conspirator’s Anonymous’ with all the different groups they’re organising to create a new world order?
They can’t run their own bath for Pete’s sake, never mind Brexit. And you imagine they’e subverting everything else?
32
Careful Dennis. Calling a Christian Socialist a Christian Socialist is now conspirational. We all know Blair didn’t campaign as a Cub, or a Scout or Christian Socialist. As for subversion…who among the bathtap-challenged could hope to subvert anything?
Nothing to see here. Doubt nothing.
50
Mosomoso I noted the knee jerk reaction above.
Here is some more background that our friend might find enlightening ..
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2003/04/the-special-relationship-between-blair-and-god/
40
It’s odd how you make a statement and it’s translated into claims you never made – to then be vigorously disputed. Seems to be a tactic with some people.
I do find Blair’s “Gott mit uns” religiosity pretty creepy. As for that wife…
70
As we know, this insane “Global Warming” scam has little or nothing to do with climate change, but is just a mechanism to redistribute wealth by means of carbon credits or an emission trading scheme (ETS). The scam is simple. Most people don’t understand how an emissions trading scheme works, so here’s an example:
Kalathumpia’s a first world industrial nation and Ruritania’s a third world schit-hole in Africa with no industries at all. The United Nations Emissions Trading Authority allots 50 Carbon Credits to every nation, which allows those nations to emit 50 tons of CO2. These Carbon Credits can be traded between countries and each Carbon Credit is valued at $1 million.
Kalathumpia finds that because it’s a first-world industrialised nation, its industries emit 100 tons of CO2, but it’s only been allocated an allowance of 50 tons by the UN. So it’s a choice of complying with that 50 ton limit and watching its industries collapse and zillions of citizens become unemployed, or purchasing 50 tons worth of Carbon Credits from a nation that isn’t going to use their allotment – a nation such as Ruritania that’s a backward slum in Africa with no industries emitting anything.
So Kalathumpia buys Ruritania’s 50 Carbon Credits for $50 million and now it has 100 Carbon Credits and can emit its usual 100 tons of carbon dioxide and keep its industries running and its people employed. The nett result is that the same amount of CO2 is emitted into the atmosphere, but $50 million has been “redistributed” from rich Kalathumpia to poor Ruritania.
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@ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N
My question is if, as is claimed, renewables are so cheap, why isn’t Africa covered in wind turbines?
90
That’s a good point which Leftards always fail to answer without the trademark turn and run and a deer in the headlights expression. I wonder what my comment is doing down here, it was meant to be a reply to someone who’s comment I can’t find now. Oh well.. 🙂
30
That would require a multi faceted answer, only one facet of which would be cost.
Apart from natural resource extraction Africa isnt exactly littered with any kind of thriving, reliable infrastructure.
10
Off Topic ! Our wonderful ABC has ( along with CNN ) demonstrated that it cannot do basic maths !
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-19/fireball-ten-times-energy-of-hiroshima-bomb-explodes-near-russia/10915156
The Hiroshima bomb (Little Boy) had a 15 kiloton yield. ( Wikipedia ! )
So ten times the Hiroshima blast is 150 kilotons yield.
But in reality, as even CNN reported, this fireball meteorite had a yield of just a miserly 4.2 kilotons.
Dear, dear, me Aunty ABC !
Such basic errors.
Not my ABC !
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I think you’ll find that it’s considered a badge of honour among its broadcasters to be incapable of mental arithmetic, indeed R Epstein of 774 who claims to be a physics graduate asserted as much about himself on 21 August 2015 when he boasted he could not convert from twenty percent of a quantity to its full value notwithstanding that when I did university physics fifty odd years ago mental arithmetic was its very soul.
50
Brexit has its parallels with exiting Paris, of course.
Trump can’t actually exit the Paris deal until the day after the 2020 election. that’s a big deal
Washington Post – 12 Dec 2018
—
stuff that “just happens”:
U.S. Cannot Leave Paris Agreement Until Day After the 2020 Presidential Election
By ****Rebecca Leber
Newsweek – 7 Nov 2017
(This story originally appeared in Mother Jones and is reproduced here as part of the ***Climate Desk Collaboration)
President Barack Obama signed and formally joined the Paris deal in 2016, arguing that Senate ratification was not required because it was not a formal treaty. As a result, the U.S. will continue to be part of the agreement until November 5, 2020, the first date President Donald Trump can formally withdraw. This ***just happens to coincide with the day after the next presidential election…
—
***Climate Desk: About Us
Climate Desk is a journalistic collaboration dedicated to exploring the impact — human, environmental, economic, political — of a changing climate. The partners are The Atlantic, Atlas Obscura, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, CityLab, Grist, The Guardian , High Country News, HuffPost, Medium, Mother Jones, National Observer, Newsweek, Reveal, Slate, The Weather Channel, Undark, Wired and Yale Envirnoment 360…
Q: So what’s the advantage to collaborating?
A: For one thing, more hands on deck and more outlets mean we can do more coverage, bringing our various strengths and audiences to bear. For another, given the transformation of the media business, collaboration is part of the future of journalism. This project has enriched our own understanding of the issue, and that can only be a benefit to our readers…
Q: Who works on Climate Desk?
Marianne Szegedy-Maszak
Marianne oversees Climate Desk and is a senior editor at Mother Jones. She has written for the The New York Times, The New York Times Magazine, The Washington Post, Esquire, the Los Angeles Times, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, among others. Before joining Mother Jones, she was a Senior Writer at US News & World Report, where she covered psychiatry, psychology, and neuroscience, and a professor of Journalism at American University.
Jeremy Schulman
Jeremy is Mother Jones’ senior news editor and helps edit Climate Desk. He was previously editor-in-chief of The American Independent and research and investigative director at Media Matters for America…
***Rebecca Leber
Rebecca is a reporter in Mother Jones’ DC bureau covering climate, environment, and energy politics. Previously, she reported for New Republic, Grist, and Think Progress…READ ON
https://www.climatedesk.org/about-us
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19 Apr 2010: Columbia Journalism Review: Will Collaborative Climate Coverage Work?
Mother Jones and six other outlets step into the unknown
By Thomas K. Zellers
(Thomas K. Zellers is a CJR intern, currently studying economics and environmental science at Fordham University)
With the Senate poised for an “uphill push” to pass climate and energy legislation, and numerous surveys saying that Americans’ concern about global warming has declined, seven news outlets have banded together to improve upon what they see as chronically poor coverage of climate change…
On Monday, The Atlantic, the Center for Investigative Reporting, Grist, Mother Jones, Slate, Wired, and the new PBS current affairs show Need to Know launched The Climate Desk…
The seven partners first gathered in December 2009 in what Mother Jones co-editors Clara Jeffery and Monika Bauerlein describe as the result of brainstorming “the perfect editorial meeting.” Now, just four months later, the project is beginning to post its first series of articles…
Over the next two weeks, two dozen stories, produced collaboratively by all seven organizations, will run on all the participating outlets’ Web sites, as well as The Climate Desk Web site…
With seven news organizations involved, one might expect the editorial process to be proportionately difficult. However, Bauerlein and Jeffery said that besides a marked increase in daily conference calls and shared Google Documents, collaboration has been surprisingly easy…
“The biggest thing everybody’s been putting in is brain cells,” Bauerlein said. “It’s really an ideas collaboration. That’s the thing that we’ve all found enjoyable about the process, the coming together of minds. And from that has flowed a commitment of resources that is appropriate to each partner.”…
The project is still in the pilot phase, but some publications, like Ad Age, are already calling it “revolutionary.”…
https://archives.cjr.org/the_observatory/will_collaborative_climate_cov.php
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David Corn (D.C. bureau chief for Mother Jones, MSNBC analyst, ex-The Nation):
March/April 2018: Mother Jones: How the GOP Pulled Me Into Its War on the FBI:
Inside the conspiracy of dunces
by David Corn
(The forthcoming book from David Corn and Michael Isikoff, Russian Roulette: The Inside Story of Putin’s War on America and the Election of Donald Trump, will be released on March 20)
It is true that Steele passed his unconfirmed reports to the bureau and that the FBI took a serious interest in them. But there has been no indication this prompted the bureau’s investigation.
The FBI opened its Trump-Russia inquiry in July 2016 after the Australian government — following WikiLeaks’ dump of Russian-hacked Democratic Party emails — notified the United States that its top diplomat in Britain had months earlier been told by George Papadopoulos, a Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, that the Russians had dirt on Clinton…
Here’s where I come in. In a Mother Jones article published eight days before the election, I was the first to reveal the existence of the Steele memos, and to report that Steele (whom I did not name) had shared them with the FBI…READ ON
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/02/how-the-gop-pulled-me-into-its-war-on-the-fbi/
18 Mar: Washington Times: Dossier author Christopher Steele orchestrated post-election media push against Trump
by Rowan Scarborough
Dossier creator Christopher Steele had a far greater role in trying to sell his anti-Trump charges to Washington’s journalism establishment than previously known, a court filing shows.
It was public knowledge through Mr. Steele’s previous declarations in two libel lawsuits that he had met with the powerhouses of D.C. journalism before the presidential election to brief his Trump-Russia conspiracy allegations.
But with the March 14 unsealing of testimony from an aide of the late Sen. John McCain, it is now known that Mr. Steele also adopted a postelection strategy to damage or perhaps stop the Trump presidency…
Mr. Steele’s dossier was financed by the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee. Thus, Mr. Kramer, a Republican, became an unwitting Democratic Party operative…
Mr. Steele’s role postelection? According to Mr. Kramer’s deposition, Mr. Steele specifically urged him to brief Ken Bensinger of BuzzFeed, which he did over the Christmas holidays.
BuzzFeed published that copy on Jan. 10, 2017. It forever changed the Trump transition and presidency, as the sensational charges permeated the news media and were endorsed by some Democrats.
Mr. Steele also urged Mr. Kramer to brief CNN’s Carl Bernstein. This meeting also was consequential: CNN broke the story that Mr. Comey had briefed President-elect Trump on the dossier, adding weight to the document.
“Both of the meetings occurred at Mr. Steele’s request,” Mr. Kramer said.
Mr. Steele also endorsed providing a dossier copy to The Washington Post.
Besides BuzzFeed and CNN, Mr. Kramer briefed and/or provided dossier copies to Mother Jones’ David Corn, The Washington Post’s Tom Hamburger and Fred Hiatt, NPR’s Bob Little, McClatchy news service’s Peter Stone and Greg Gordon, ABC News reporter Brian Ross, The Wall Street Journal’s Alan Cullison and The Guardian newspaper…
Mr. Kramer, a Russia analyst who worked at the McCain Institute in Washington at the time, also made sure that the Obama administration knew about the dossier…READ ALL
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/18/christopher-steele-dossier-author-led-anti-trump-m/
18 Mar: Daily Caller: Here’s How The Steele Dossier Spread Through The Media And Government
by Chuck Ross
•More than 15 journalists, several U.S. government officials and multiple lawmakers were shown or given the Steele dossier during the 2016 presidential campaign or shortly after.
•Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele disseminated the dossier far and wide in an apparent attempt to insert the document’s salacious allegations into the media.
•Newly unsealed court filings show how widespread this effort was.
By giving the dossier to government officials, Fusion GPS and Steele were able to create news hooks for journalists to write stories airing the dossier’s unverified allegations.
That was the case with Yahoo! News, Mother Jones, CNN and BuzzFeed News, all of which published stories not about the underlying claims made in the dossier, but about the fact U.S. government officials were handling the document.
Here are all of the contacts that Steele, Simpson and Kramer had with government officials and the press…
https://dailycaller.com/2019/03/18/fusion-gps-steele-dossier-media/?fbclid=IwAR2bFIdVHZ_nfK0Pt4W2UDa_jo-Zy73Vr9s3KIjMRj4oTXfU07rYdgWdJ0s
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Pat re
“President Barack Obama signed and formally joined the Paris deal in 2016, arguing that Senate ratification was not required because it was not a formal treaty.”
Ummm ! So Obama buggered around with the USA constitution ! Very interesting.
But if the USA can join the Paris treaty by presidential decree, it can also leave the Paris treaty by presidential decree.
And as for the 2 year notice… Maybe Trump should issue a presidential decree saying that according to the USA constitution, that the USA was NEVER a valid member of the Paris treaty.. It was NOT ratified by congress.
After that what is left to worry about ?
Ummmm !
90
What’s left? UN! UNNNNNNN next!
20
18 Mar: WashingtonExaminer: Facebook blocks Trump’s social media chief: ‘Why are you silencing me?’
by Paul Bedard
Facebook abruptly censored the account of President Trump’s chief social media guru, blocking him for simply responding to a question from a reader.
Dan Scavino Jr. said on Facebook that his page was blocked without notice.
“AMAZING. WHY ARE YOU STOPPING ME from replying to comments followers have left me – on my own Facebook Page!!?? People have the right to know. Why are you silencing me??? Please LMK! Thanks,” he wrote today…
Scavino is responsible for several of the president’s and White House’s social media accounts. He has been with the president for years.
His accounts have a tremendous following, so a block on Facebook has a big reach. Already there are over 750 comments on his page, including…READ ON
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/facebook-blocks-trumps-social-media-chief-no-reason-given
read all the following:
18 Mar: Fox News: Nunes sues Twitter, some users, seeks over $250M alleging anti-conservative ‘shadow bans,’ smears
By Gregg Re, Catherine Herridge
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nunes-files-bombshell-defamation-suit-against-twitter-seeks-250m-for-anti-conservative-shadow-bans-smears
40
Small historical note!
This is BREXIT 2.0
BREXIT 1.0 was led by Thomas Cromwell
Some issues never go away.
60
No I think Brexit 1 was started by Henry the V111 !
It was Henry Tudor who said that the king of England was sovereign and not beholden to anybody in Europe – including Catholic popes !
60
Someone screwed that up royal..!
20
All engineered in the background by Cromwell.
His family is all intermarried with prominent Protestants of various beliefs.
Even had fake news back then.
The Catholic sympathisers made out his father was a poor violent drunken blacksmith from Southwark.
He was actually descendant from the Baron’s Cromwell and the Smyths a high ranking very influential family.
His father owed Breweries and had other commercial interest in that area and was quite wealthy.
20
But Henry had his head in 1540.
The UK needs another Oliver Cromwell: to march the army into parliament. Again.
30
18 Mar: Guardian: Ending climate change requires the end of capitalism. Have we got the stomach for it?
Policy tweaks won’t do it, we need to throw the kitchen sink at this with a total rethink of our relationship to ownership, work and capital
by Phil McDuff
(Phil McDuff writes on economics and social policy)
Climate change activism is increasingly the domain of the young, such as 16-year-old Greta Thunberg, the unlikely face of the school strike for climate movement, which has seen many thousands of children walk out of school to demand that their parents’ generation takes responsibility for leaving them a planet to live on. In comparison, the existing political establishment looks more and more like an impediment to change…The need to keep the wheels of capitalism well-oiled takes precedence even against a backdrop of fires, floods and hurricanes…
Today’s children, as they become more politically aware, will be much more radical than their parents, simply because there will be no other choice for them. This emergent radicalism is already taking people by surprise. The Green New Deal (GND), a term presently most associated with 29-year-old US representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, has provoked a wildly unhinged backlash from the “pro free market” wing, who argue that it’s a Trojan horse, nothing more than an attempt to piggyback Marxism onto the back of climate legislation…
Right now we can, with a massive investment of effort by 2030, just about keep the warming level below 1.5C. This is “bad, but manageable” territory. Failing to put that effort in sees the world crossing more severe temperature barriers that would lead to outcomes like ecosystem collapse, ocean acidification, mass desertification, and coastal cities being flooded into inhabitability.
We will simply have to throw the kitchen sink at this…
We need to fundamentally re-evaluate our relationship to ownership, work and capital. The impact of a dramatic reconfiguration of the industrial economy require similarly large changes to the welfare state. Basic incomes, large-scale public works programmes, everything has to be on the table to ensure that the oncoming system shocks do not leave vast swathes of the global population starving and destitute. Perhaps even more fundamentally, we cannot continue to treat the welfare system as a tool for disciplining the supposedly idle underclasses. Our system must be reformed with a more humane view of worklessness, poverty and migration than we have now…
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/18/ending-climate-change-end-capitalism
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RIP:
18 Mar: Daily News: Alan Krueger, former White House economist, dead at 58 from suicide
By Gina Salamone
Alan Krueger, a Princeton University economist and a top adviser under two Presidents, has died at age 58 after taking his own life…
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-alan-krueger-dead-58-white-house-economist-20190318-story.html
July 2010: Princeton: Princeton study links climate change, crop yields and cross-border migration
by Dana Ricci
Climate change is expected to cause mass human migration, including immigration across international borders, according to a new study by three Princeton University professors and researchers. The researchers — all from the University’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs — examined the linkages between variations in climate, agricultural yields and people’s migration responses…
Along with Feng, the research was conducted by Alan B. Krueger, the Bendheim Professor of Economics and Public Affairs — who is currently on leave as assistant secretary for economic policy at the U.S. Treasury Department — and Michael Oppenheimer, the Albert G. Milbank Professor of Geosciences and International Affairs. The study focused on Mexico from 1995 to 2005, a time when a substantial increase in emigration to the United States occurred…
A statistical estimator, a tool that uses only the portion of variations in crop yields across states that is predicted by changes in climate (e.g., temperature and rainfall), was used to estimate the sensitivity of emigration to crop yields. Projections of the effect of climate change on crop yield in the future then were used to estimate future migration flows, assuming all other factors except climate would be unchanged. The researchers estimated that, depending on whether agriculture improvements help farmers adapt to a hotter, drier climate, an additional 1 million to 7 million Mexicans (up to 10 percent of the adult Mexican population) could migrate to the United States in the next 70 years due to climate-induced declining agricultural productivity, if other conditions affecting immigration were otherwise similar to today’s…
Their work was published online Monday, July 26, in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences…
Krueger said, “The methods that we developed in the study could be applied more generally to understand and project worldwide migration trends over the next 70 years, and to help governments and nongovernment organizations prepare for population inflows and outflows.” …
https://www.princeton.edu/news/2010/07/26/princeton-study-links-climate-change-crop-yields-and-cross-border-migration
20
Only if Dummocrats keep trucking them around for photo ops and to the US border, lying that it’s been an arduous journey for them on foot. Yet somehow all without rapes, hunger or dirty clothes whatsoever.
50
And what would be the effects of Global Cooling from the quiet sun?
30
I would almost say nothing, because surely global cooling would not exceed one degree, and the world’s weather agencies would hide that decline.
10
occasionally, websites remind us of these great predictions by Dr. Noel Brown/UNEP:
6 Mar: GWPF: U.N. Predicts Disaster if Global Warming Not Checked
by PETER JAMES SPIELMANN – 30 Jun 1989
UNITED NATIONS (AP) A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000.
Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of “eco- refugees”, threatening political chaos, said Noel Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program, or UNEP.
He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect before it goes beyond human control.
As the warming melts polar icecaps, ocean levels will rise by up to three feet, enough to cover the Maldives and other flat island nations, Brown told The Associated Press in an interview on Wednesday…READ ON
https://www.thegwpf.com/u-n-predicts-disaster-if-global-warming-not-checked/
like FlimFlam, Dr. Brown has not suffered from being so wrong:
16 Apr 2018: eTurboNews Dr. Taleb Rifai is the new chairman of the IIPT (The International Institute for Peace through Tourism) Advisory Board
By Juergen T Steinmetz
He succeeds Dr. Noel Brown who becomes Chairman Emeritus…
Dr. Noel Brown has been an Environmental Diplomat for decades. In 1972 he collaborated with Maurice Strong in organizing the first UN Conference on the Environment in Stockholm, Sweden. Following the conference he continued collaborating with Maurice Strong in establishing the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP) in Nairobi, Kenya and subsequently became Director, UNEP North America in New York where he played a key role in the historic “Earth Summit” in Rio 1992 and initiated numerous innovations in the service of the earth’s environment and sustainable development. Following his retirement from UNEP he founded “Friends of the United Nations” where he continued to be active in advancing the goals of the United Nations for peace, environmental protection and sustainable development.
https://www.eturbonews.com/182793/dr-taleb-rifai-is-the-new-chairman-of-the-iipt-advisory-board
BlueCommunityInfo: Dr. Noel Brown
Dr. Brown holds a B.A. in Political Science and Economics from Seattle University, an M.A. in International Law and Organization from Georgetown University and Ph. D. in International Relations from Yale University. He also holds a diploma in International Law from The Hague Academy of International Law…
He is a founding member of the Aspen Global Change Institute, the International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives, and Indigenous Development International.
Dr. Brown currently serves as President of the Friends of the United Nations, a non governmental organization dedicated to advancing the cause of the United Nations by mobilizing public support on its behalf and directing public attention to its major programmes and achievements. He is also Director General of the Inernational Ocean Institute Waves of Change campaign, and a fellow of the World Academy of Arts and Sciences, Chairman of the International Institute for Peace through Tourism, and Chairman of the Rene Dubos Center for Human Environments…
Dr. Brown has been a Visiting Professor at both U.S. and foreign universities, teaching on the subject of International Law and Organization, Government and Politics, and Environmental Management. He was a distinguished lecturer at the University of Victoria, British Columbia and an associate of the Queen Elizabeth Trust for Young Australians. Dr .Brown was the 1996 Leo Bloc Professor at the University of Denver and is currently the Director of training at the International Oceans Institute, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.
Dr. Brown serves on the Board of Directors of the Climate Institute, the Earth Communications Office, the Rainforest Alliance, MUSE, Film & Television, the Center for Resource Management, Global Education Associates, Trust for the Americas, the International Leadership -Bevelopment Institute, Roots for Peace, International Sea-keepers Society , the Timbuktu Heritage Institute and Jamaica National Parks Trust Fund. Dr .Brown has consulted and lectured extensively around the world and has produced a number of publications. Through his work with the Peace Child International, he sponsored and encouraged a group of young people to rewrite Agenda 21 (the Earth Summit’s Blueprint for Sustainable Development) in a style and language that would be meaningful to their generation and which resulted in Rescue Mission, now an international best- seller within the environmental youth community .In keeping with efforts to address the moral dimension of the environmental crisis, Dr .Brown introduced the Environmental Sabbath Programme to the United Nations, now celebrated worldwide by thousands of congregations in connection with World Environment Day, and he has recently edited a volume entitled Ethics and Agenda 21: Moral Implications of a Global Consensus.
Dr. Brown has numerous awards acknowledging his service to the environment, including: the Lions Club Award, the Friends of the United Nations A ward, the Gaia Award, and the Global Education Associates A ward for Distinguished Service in Care of the Earth. Dr. Brown is a recipient of the 1998 World Academy of Arts and Science Award for Distinguished Public Service. One of the most dedicated and ardent champions of the environmental sustainability and planetary viability. For the past 30 years, he has initiated a number of activities that have significantly advanced the cause of the environment in many areas of human endeavor…
In keeping with his commitment to youth, he was instrumental in co founding the International Institute for Leadership Development headquarters at York University in Canada, which has become an effective resource center for UN internships and many of the participants in these programs have been placed in a number ofUN offices throughout the world.
Under the auspices of the leadership program he was active in the development of the Young Entrepreneurs Summits, which provided a framework for young business leaders throughout the world, ages 13 to 42 to meet and exchange views on problems and challenges and ways in which they might fmd solutions through cooperative action…
http://www.bluecommunity.info/topics/view/51cbfc77f702fc2ba8129a34/
20
According to my calculations of GDP from the IMF, the UK and US and China & Japan, Canada, Australia, NZ and other countries that would like to trade with each other total 55% of world GDP. The EU (minus the UK) has a total of 15.5% of world GDP. The EU has nothing much to bargain with.
90
Which is precisely why they are desperate to keep Britain in.
80
Brexit is the start of the end for the Eurocrat class, it’s only a matter of how long it takes for the EU to shrink down to inevitable annihilation, so yeah, they’re kicking back hard.
111
Italy might be the next cab off the rank.
‘Attending the first Belt and Road Forum in Beijing in 2017, the previous Italian prime minister Paolo Gentiloni stopped short of signing up to join the global mega-project, as no other European Union country had shown interest. However, a lot has changed since Italy’s populist right-wing government took over last June, and Rome has formally announced that it will participate in China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) after three high-level visits to Beijing.’
Asia Times
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2 Aug 2018: Teen Vogue: Trump and the Paris Climate Change Agreement, Explained
America is one of the world’s largest polluters — combating climate change needs to be a priority.
By Susmita Baral
Nevertheless, according to the regulations of the agreement, the earliest date the U.S. (or any country) could exit the historic international initiative would be November 4, 2020. That means there will be plenty of time in the interim to learn not only what the Paris agreement is and what it was intended to do, but also Trump’s historical attitude toward climate change and how it has impacted the United States’ foreign and domestic policy…
The silver lining is that the U.S. cannot depart immediately, as the U.N.’s rules only allow a country to initiate a withdrawal three years after the accord goes into force. This means the Trump administration can only formally initiate an exit on November 4, 2019. After that, there is a one-year notice period for the withdrawal to go into effect, so the earliest the United States can truly be free of the Paris agreement is November 4, 2020, which is one day after the 2020 presidential election. But since countries aren’t held accountable for living up to their end of the deal, this also means the 2020 time buffer is just a formality: The Trump administration can officially withdraw from the Paris agreement when the time comes, but unofficially retract on all associated efforts and roll out environmentally damaging policy in the meantime…
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/trump-withdraws-us-from-paris-agreement-heres-what-it-means
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18 Mar: Gloria.tv: Vatican Bishop: Petrol Companies Had Trump Elected to Ignore Climate
A part of the “rich of the earth” do not want to save the world, Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo told La Repubblica (March 15).
Sanchez is the chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and belongs to the Francis’ party.
He explains that there are “presidents of countries who were elected through election campaigns financed by the petrol companies so that they would be silent about the climate once they are elected.”…
La Repubblica asks Sanchez, “You talk about Trump?” Sanchez implicitly affirms.
Sanchez calls the governments’ lack of interest in the climate a “collective suicide.” But, he says, that the Vatican believes in an “integral ecological conversion.”…
https://www.gloria.tv/article/ANu1X6v9FMK63ng1RXApT4Phv
10
Youtube: 7min15sec: 18 Mar: JW (Judicial Watch) VICTORY: Court Rules FBI’s Search of Strzok/Mueller Probe Docs Inadequate; Orders New Search!
Judicial Watch announced that United States District Court Judge Christopher R. Cooper for the District of Columbia agreed with Judicial Watch that the FBI did not adequately search for records related to the removal and reassignment of Peter Strzok, a former deputy to the assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI, from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigative team. In granting Judicial Watch’s request, Judge Cooper ordered the FBI to further search their records. (The original, deficient search had only returned 14 pages.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHm4inlVPs
worth remembering:
8 Nov 2018: The Hill: Did FBI get bamboozled by multiple versions of Trump dossier?
By John Solomon
We know from public testimony that dossier author and former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele shared his findings with the FBI in summer and fall 2016 before he was terminated as a confidential source for inappropriate media contacts.
And we learned that Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) provided a copy to the FBI after the November 2016 election — out of a sense of duty, his office says.
Now, memos the FBI is turning over to Congress show the bureau possessed at least three versions of the dossier and its mostly unverified allegations of collusion.
Each arrived from a different messenger: McCain, Mother Jones reporter David Corn, Fusion GPS founder (and Steele boss) Glenn Simpson.
That revelation is in an email that disgraced FBI counterintelligence agent Peter Strzok wrote to FBI executives around the time BuzzFeed published a version of the dossier on Jan. 10, 2017.
“Our internal system is blocking the site,” Strzok wrote of the document posted on BuzzFeed. “I have the PDF via iPhone but it’s 25.6MB. Comparing now. The set is only identical to what McCain had. (it has differences from what was given to us by Corn and Simpson.)”
The significance of Strzok’s email is obvious to investigators who reviewed it in recent days. The FBI is supposed to be immune to manipulation by circular information flows, especially with sensitive investigations such as evaluating whether a foreign power tampered with an American election.
Yet, in this case, the generally same information kept walking through the FBI’s door for months — recycled each time by a new character with ties to Hillary Clinton or hatred for Trump — until someone decided they had to act.
That someone was Strzok, whose own anti-Trump bias was laid bare by his personal text messages…
The pattern is so troubling that one investigator said this to me: “The dossier and its related dirt was on a circular flight path aboard a courier service called ‘Air Clinton,’ and the FBI kept signing for the packages.”…
The first time Steele met the FBI on July 5, 2016, he got a lukewarm reception.
Then Australian diplomat Alexander Downer in late July recalled a May 2016 conversation he had with Trump adviser George Papadopoulos
Downer — another “courier” in some investigators’ minds — has his own ties to the Clintons. As Australia’s foreign minister in 2006, he arranged one of the largest-ever foreign donations to the Clinton Foundation, a $25 million grant to fight AIDS.
Strzok quietly opened an investigation of possible Trump-Russia collusion on July 31, 2016, based in part on Downer’s information…
In October, the FBI submitted and won a request for a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant against Carter Page, another Trump adviser. In support of the request, it cited a Yahoo News article that, officials admit, was influenced by the Steele dossier.
Around the same time, in late October, Corn wrote an article in Mother Jones about Steele’s Trump-Russia allegations.
In an email to me, Corn said he told the FBI about the dossier before writing that article. After Trump won the election, he shared a version of the document with the bureau in hopes of furthering his reporting. “I tried the FBI again after the election. On my own accord, I shared a copy of the dossier with the FBI in order to see if the bureau would authenticate the documents and now comment on them. Once again, it would not,” he wrote me.
Corn dismissed any suggestion that made him an FBI source: “To characterize me as a source of the document is inaccurate. I was merely doing what a journalist does: trying to get more information on a story I was pursuing.”
Corn’s opposition to Trump is well documented in his articles, a book he wrote, and on Twitter where, this month, he declared: “Trump has a far greater affinity for the leader of a corrupt and repressive autocracy than he does for any leader of a liberal Western democracy. That should concern Democrats and Republicans.”…
It’s all the sort of recycling that, in another context, might make an environmentalist happy. But it’s exactly the sort of circular intelligence-gathering and political pressure that the FBI is supposed to reject.
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/396307-Did-FBI-get-bamboozled-by-multiple-versions-of-Trump-dossier%3F
30
19 Mar: Guardian: Scott Morrison rules out One Nation preference deal after Christchurch attack
PM toughens the Coalition’s line against Pauline Hanson’s party as he aims to promote community harmony
by Paul Karp
The comments follow a speech by the prime minister on Monday denouncing racism and “tribalism” and urging Australians to “disagree better”, as the government aims to promote community harmony despite its own record of divisive comments regarding asylum seekers…
On Tuesday Morrison was asked at a press conference in Adelaide if the Liberals would preference One Nation last at the federal election, as Labor plans to. “Well, there will be no preference deals with One Nation,” the prime minister replied…
But Hanson reacted angrily to Morrison’s announcement, warning voters will punish the Liberals if they give preferences to “the economy-destroying Greens and Labor before One Nation”…
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/mar/19/scott-morrison-rules-out-one-nation-preference-deal-after-christchurch-attack
19 Mar: Facebook: Pauline Hanson’s Please Explain
MEDIA RELEASE – SCOTT MORRISON TO PREFERENCE GREENS AND LABOR AHEAD OF ONE NATION
One Nation leader Pauline Hanson says Scott Morrison deserves to lose the next election with his knee jerk reaction to rule out giving One Nation preferences ahead of the federal election.
Senator Hanson said, “If the Prime Minister feels it is better for the Liberals to flow their preferences to the economy destroying Greens and Labor before One Nation, Australian voters will react.”
One Nation has worked constructively with the Coalition Government for almost 3 years, while Labor and the Greens have opposed almost all legislation put before the Parliament.
“I’ve had an open door policy for all sides of politics after being elected in 2016, with neither sides raising concerns over my policies before.”
“Australian’s concerns would be ignored without One Nation on the floor of Parliament. Without my input, we wouldn’t be having the discussion on water security, immigration, free trade deals or coal.”
One Nation came close to winning 21 seats across Queensland at the 2017 state election, however, the LNP and Labor chose to preference one another on how-to-vote cards in a number of seats the minor party would otherwise have won. (based on two-party-preferred results)
“Queenslanders have Mr. Morrison’s party to thank for Jackie Trad being returned as a result of a Liberal National’s preference deal with Labor in the seat of South Brisbane.”
Some of the most destructive vegetation management laws have devastated farming in parts of Queensland as a result of the LNP’s deal with Labor.”
Senator Hanson believes the Liberals flow of preferences to Labor and the Greens will only fast track the war on coal and end tens of thousands of mining jobs across Australia.
“We have already received calls from sitting Members of the Liberal and National parties who have expressed their disgust with the Prime Ministers comments.”…
https://www.facebook.com/PaulineHansonAu/
30
Why do I continue to be concerned that Australia is being levered to the left, socialism globalism, and the manipulators are now pulling from the left and pushing from the left majority on what we outsiders are supposed to view as a two party system option?
Former Prime Minister Howard, an amateur psephologist, claimed during 2017 that the unofficial two party system was losing support, the traditional around 80 per cent of voters supporting the two party system has reduced to around 60 per cent. Obviously the rest vote for the minor parties or an independent. And for 2019 Federal Election there are claiming to be independents competing against Coalition MPs with support from GetUp, and others from the left side of politics, Labor and Green, Turnbull & Son.
I hope that by election day support for the no longer representing Australians side shrinks to much less than 50 per cent.
30
Dennis, the whole thing is frustrating.
Here is an interesting quote, although about the US, just as relevant to Oz.
Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time (New York: The MacMillan Company, 1966) pg.324
20
“you can check “Out” any time you like but you can never leave.”
Cute
40
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
“Relax,” said Juncker
“We are programmed to receive
You can check-out any time you like
But you can never leave!
30
The US has a cockroach-trap called a “Roach Motel” – “they check in, but they don’t check out”
30
OT: It appears zh and kiwifarms have been blocked.
40
https://www.rt.com/news/454158-new-zealand-censors-mosque-shooting/
The outright hysterical government censorship over-reach that was occurring only in NZ yesterday has spread to Australia since about noon today, it appears.
Disgusting.
52
What’s even more disgusting is that one has to quote an RT article to find out about it (and I despise RT) because our high-minded authoritahs are such slimy weasels that they were not game to announce it to the general public.
I feel safer.
40
Yep. It’s for real in Godzone.We’ll see how many sites are blocked by the end of the week.
70
Welcome to the Commonwealth New-Speak Internet Filter and Autonomous History Re-writer version 1.0.
MSM Chaff-Bags ON = CHECK!
31
They even blocked Defence Talk for discussing it:
https://www.defencetalk.com/military/
20
I’ve tried several times to reach Michael Smith News…no go. Is that now being censored. He was being very careful in his reportage of that ghastly event in NZ.
52
I just got into MS at 6.30pm Annie.
40
I managed it later, thanks beowulf.
10
Only going to get much worse. I also see a new trend in fake news from the MSM. The SJWs are blaming more and more the alt-right for the rising violent protests. They forget the SJWs, leftists and globalists started it all. Such short memories.
113
The thing is Peter, Australia (and all other Western countries) would have no current national problem with a certain group if all of the Politicians and Parties in Australia had not consistently imported millions of them over the past 20 years in the name of multi-cult-ism.
Not choosing between good and bad ideas gets you to this.
For instance, when you’re in WWII against Japan, do you decide to import 3 million Japanese nationals? No!
But if you did so anyway would you expect no problems? No!
And if you did run into serious national security problems would you keep importing them regardless? No!
Would you keep pretending their primary allegiance was not a problem given the potential for predictable and avoidable National Security harm? No!
Would you pretend you had not made a serious error, so refuse to allow citizens to talk about it freely and fully, so it can be remedied? No!
But this is where we are. And it’s entirely due to all of the politicians who are even now censoring us for our own protection and ‘best-interests’ and insisting we have no right to free speech.
[Which Jo has just reminded me of. She very kindly asked me to re-write this to self-censor and self-moderate my own comment, due to a breach of Section C bought about by temporarily mistakenly imagining Australian Citizens have a right to speak freely on a topic that badly needs to be discussed freely. So this is the watered down version of it.]
I have no time for any of the hypocrites in Canberra, especially the current PM, and rubbish Liberal Party, which has been cumulatively responsible for the lion’s-share of the situation we’re now in. One of a deep National polarization, divisions, social conflict and a significant weakening of National cohesion that’s resulted from a totally unnecessary past 20 years of very counter productive immigration policy and its result.
All PMs and all parties have been responsible for it but this boob Morrison and his fellow Parliamentary clowns just made their cumulative sin against the Australian people to a level beyond the pale today.
The ‘solution’ to the resulting immigration f-up is not in banning bits of the internet, or attacking anonymity, or the Internet’s free-speech, which freedom of speech Australian Law is intolerant of, but it sure as hell can tolerate so much other intolerable garbage instead, no problem at all!
The causation is the absurd multi-cult-ism ideology which has led to the past 20 years of counterproductive immigration policy, which created deep division and mistrust in all politics and politicians. But which Canberra and apparently most media can’t even honestly and openly countenance to be the real and deeper source of all the divisions and social conflicts around this extraordinarily aggravating and offensive topic of immigration.
They are the ones who have done this to us.
We knew there was a real danger the Loony-Left would one day start to use draconian censorship, but it was this gammon-conservative boob PM who’s actually done it to Australia!
51
Let’s not be over harsh WXcycles as it’s more than likely the case that he’s only doing what he’s been told to do by the mysterious cabal of banksters which has run the show since the Hockey/UBS treasury days.
11
The biggest problem is our own making. Most voters simply don’t give a damn because if they did they would not be supporting either major party, which is effectively what you are saying so I agree with you.
20
Well that’s a bit of a change Peter, seems we agree.
I notice the TV and online media are still today avoiding (even Sky) the fact that immigration per-sec is not a problem, as almost everyone has no problem with growing Australia via a fairly high immigration inflow.
What I and I think most people do strongly object to, is importing a massive National Security and division/unification national social damage problem, when Australia can have high immigration without importing such an obvious source of current and predictably serious on-going problems to come.
There is no need to be doing that at all, and that is the major source of anger and division that Canberra politicians, NGOs and ideologues, plus State and Local government politicians have all created.
This is why everyone is particularly angered about the immigration. We have brains, we should use them, instead of mere failed ideals, which are not even shared or subscribed to by a certain large fundamentalist faction of that recent immigrant cohort. And it’s not mere ‘free’ words which should bend policy-ears, it’s the record of attitudes, deceptions, intents and actions of a certain group and its derivative subsets, that should make us think twice about that failing ‘liberal’ idealism. An ideal and set of thoughts which they don’t accept as valid, in their case, even though the National adoption of those ideals 45 years ago, is the very reason why they get to live in Australia at all now.
We can have high immigration rates, which do not cause harm. It is not an either or proposition. If we want the economic growth benefit, fine! But we don’t have to shoot Australian society in the foot and divide and weaken us in such dangerous and fanatical ways to get the GDP and cultural injections we would all benefit from.
When will Canberra and its Government Agencies learn that lesson?
Never it seems, I’ve given up on them, as they’re much too happy to blithely do deep national harm, in order to merely satisfy the dippy advocates for a clearly failing ideology and its memes.
—
On a slightly brighter note, I notice that zh has been unblocked this morning (and I do not approve of the BS that is commonplace on zh either) as was defence-talk yesterday, but Kiwi Farms (which is a US website) remains blocked today. They flat-out refused to comply with politicians and police pushing censorship and threats of prison time to suppress information which actually is in the US and global public interest to know about. No matter what the politicians or public servants may think about their pompous stands, Kiwi Farms are right to say, “No, get stuffed, we won’t be playing ball as you’re doing the wrong thing, and not us.”
They’re essentially right. The politicians are well out of step with reality here and are failing to grasp why this information is important, and nor have they noticed that there was a highly informed, intelligent and detailed debate going on within Kiwi Farms, and it was entirely moderated (even if certain individuals trolled). And it was particularly taking place in Kiwi Farms (and I bet it still is) because the politicians did their best to undermine and distort discussion and make ignorant the debates elsewhere, via attempting (and totally failing) to fully remove and eliminate the key facts, that would allow the topic to be discussed sensibly in detail.
i.e. The debate that had full access to all the information was the most informed, intelligent and focused debate that I had seen online, and it was occurring on the site which the politicians and police banned from being read in Australia. Given the gunman was Australian this is outrageous that Canberra would even think that was a wise idea.
What Canberra should have done, is to politely, diplomatically, quietly advise Jacinda Ardern to grow the hell up and that Australia would be doing no such thing as it’s wrong and unintelligent to react foolishly that way, or to be pandering to teenage level emotional hysteria with knee-jerks and damaging policy precedent on-the-run.
As PM John Howard once said, regarding Bono’s populist desire to question and school him, “The Commonwealth of Australia does not take advice from Pop Stars”. That was the proper response to the challenge. And our current PM has proven to be a failure where it really counted, and was so easily captured and manipulated by mere populism, sentiment and shallow thoughts, instead of what was right.
10
If only we knew what zh and Kiwi Farms was about.
10
… maybe the owner forgot to renew the domain name?
11
Apologies if this has already been said ( I’m in a hurry).
But the Speaker of the UK Parliament said last night he would not allow May to have a third vote on her terrible plan if there were not substantial changes made. The possibility of that happening, I think, are about zero.(It is rumoured, at least, that Germany effectively wrote the deal in the first place). So Bercrow has effectively thrown May “under the bus”.
One of the key Leave organisations have built this montage of the times May has said the UK would be out on March 29
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/03/14/as-pm-may-moves-to-delay-brexit-heres-all-times-she-promised-march-29th/
This is a cut and paste of a comment from another blog
“The opening words of the Withdrawal Act passed in June 2018 state that the European Communities Act 1972 is repealed on exit day, March 29 2019. Every EU law and treaty, including the customs union and the single market, then ceases to apply to the UK.”
So I do not see how May can pull out of Brexit without breaking the UK law. The vote that Mark Steyn refers to taken in the EU parliament can only be a “symbolic ” vote. If it in some way it over rides the UK Withdrawal Act then all it does is graphically illustrate why the UK voters want to leave.
On a slightly more humorous note I read on another blog of a guy being down at the pub with a mate discussing with others the Brexit situation. One of the remainers said the referendum was non binding so did not matter –the guys mate without hesitation replied that meant the referendum to join all those years ago was also non binding so that did not matter either.
90
Theresa May is nothing but an out and out traitor.
111
Someone here did mention she should be in the Tower of London. Let’s all vote on reopening it for its original intended purpose.
60
With Philip Hammond and a large number of civil servants to keep her company; William Hague too.
62
They will actually open something like it but it won’t be for the original intended purpose. It will be for those who dare rise up against the elite. It’s only a matter of time. Gas chambers will be too crude so it will probably be something more palatable and entertaining for the deluded masses, such as the carousel in Logan’s Run.
30
All but a very few politicians are as such. Welcome to the real world.
40
I’ve found one.
‘NSW Treasurer Dominic Perrottet has refused to back away from comments that climate change measures have been a “gratuitous waste” of taxpayer money.
‘A video emerged on Wednesday of Mr Perrottet addressing conservative think tank the Centre for Independent Studies in 2015 where he attacks federal Labor’s spending on climate change and renewable energy while in government.’
SMH
20
16 Mar: Sara Carter: Nancy Pelosi (Democrat) Wants 16-Year-Olds To Vote
In a press conference on Thursday, she told reporters that:
“I myself have always been for lowering the voting age to 16…I think it’s really important to capture kids when they’re in high school, when they’re interested in all of this, when they’re learning about government, to be able to vote.”…READ ON
https://saraacarter.com/nancy-pelosi-wants-16-year-olds-to-vote/
50
If Britain wants a second Brexit referendum, here’s what would need to happen first
By Georgia Waters
theirABC – 1 Mar 2019
A majority Remain verdict, if a second referendum were held, looks almost certain.
It’s been estimated that simply due to demographic change — i.e. older voters dying and younger people becoming eligible to vote — the Remain vote would now win, even without accounting for changes of mind…
Remain would win a second Brexit referendum. Why? Blame death
The sheer number of people who have died or become eligible to vote since June 2016 has likely swung the odds in favour of remain.
Wired.co.uk – 27 Feb 2019
Roughly seven out of ten younger people who voted wanted to remain in the EU…
For remain to win a second referendum, the old guard must step aside
The Guardian – 28 Feb 2019
Three-quarters of newly eligible voters would back remain in second poll
The Guardian – 10 Mar 2019
With Brexit Looming, Young Activists Are Still Fighting to Stay in the European Union
“Brexit is a complete disaster for young people and for the country.”
Teen Vogue – 13 Mar 2019
80
Good catch Pat.
30
@Pat
Leftist MSM nonsense, yet again a run at Project Fear. We are supposed to buckle under the contention that the ‘gammons’ have all croaked in the last two years and there’s not a single young voter convinced that Brexit is a good idea.
The reality is, there is growing resentment amongst Brexit participants, of all stripes, that Democracy is under threat. Remain voters are fed up, many sincerely believe in Democracy and accept 100% that the referendum was binding and many well convert from Remain to Leave on that very basis were there ever a second referendum.
Will there be a second referendum? Very, very doubtful. Even splitting the Leave vote risks Brexit being confirmed the preferred option and a second vote to leave would be fatal for the Conservative party. The government so misjudged the mood of the country the first time round they don’t trust themselves to have another run at it.
The Guardian is the very worst of left wing propaganda, the rest are not far behind.
80
They could all move to Eire, problem solved.
20
@Kinky Keith
Many have made those preparations, and some have already gone.
Which will make them seem pretty foolish as Irexit is also on the cards following Brexit. I wonder where they will travel to next?
20
Should be increased to 21 but given the lowering of our education standards, lack of critical thinking skills and avalanche of propaganda spewing out of the MSM perhaps it should be increased to 35+.
70
My son is 37. He has the ideological political views of a 15 year old schoolboy: “We should all be equal”.
Stupid boy.
91
Does he want the government to print and distribute more money so we are all rich?
50
So, Hot Scot put him wise.)
Who will bell the cat if not us? Start with education, like Feynman’s dad fostering curiosity, habits of question and test, with his son from an early age…nuclear family, basis of civilization. Gurus target education, Soros et Big Al.
Check out K-12 Curriculum and know what the UN program is doing to kids’ minds. Go past the buzz words, this is training in sheeple-ness.
60
Perhaps we should have some sort of “intelligence and well-being to others” test before anyone has the right to vote. After all we don’t allow prisoners behind bars for longer than 3 years to vote.
30
The economists Steyn quotes are dummies, as is Steyn. Britain cannot negotiate individual deals with nations in the EU such Germany etc. This is impossible as they are members of the EU.
The deal May got was the best the EU could offer. If it offered a wonderful unicorn deal with all that Britain wanted, it would have to offer this to the rest of the EU states. Impossible. The EU states would have vetoed it anyway.
British MPs cannot vote to not ‘crash out’ because that will happen to them automatically if they don’t agree to May’s deal or something like the Norway option, although probably too late for that.
64
What a load of rubbish.
60
18 Mar: Washington Examiner: Mark Meadows: US ambassadors conspired with DOJ to take down Trump
by Diana Stancy Correll
Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., hinted Monday the coming release of documents that will “show” U.S. ambassadors conspired with the FBI and the Justice Department to harm President Trump.
“It’s additional information that is coming out that will show not only was there no collusion, but there was a coordinated effort to take this president down,” Meadows told Fox News’ Sean Hannity. “We talk about the ‘Deep State.’ There are players now, even ambassadors, that are sitting ambassadors that were involved in part of this with the FBI-DOJ.”
“As we look at this, it’s time to show that we show the American people what’s out there, declassify some of those documents,” added Meadows, a member of the House Oversight Committee. “I think when the American people see what I’ve seen, they will judge for themselves and know that this has all been a hoax.”…
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mark-meadows-sitting-ambassadors-conspired-with-doj-to-take-down-trump
President Trump tweeted out this video today:
Youtube: 8min20sec: Mark Meadows: There Are Sitting Ambassadors Who Were Involved in Deep State Coup of President Trump
Sean Hannity: What we now have is the beginning of a cascade of information of materials that will be collaborating everything we have been telling you…
(with Mark Meadows, Sara Carter & Gregg Jarrett; Meadows Ambassadors remarks begins around 6min14sec)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUnh7ijYILM&feature=youtu.be
50
nothing to do with Trump/Russia collusion, but a step in the other direction at last:
18 Mar: NYT: Lobbying Case Against Democrat With Ties to Manafort Reaches Key Stage
by Kenneth P. Vogel and Katie Benner
A decision about whether to prosecute Mr. (Greg) Craig, who was White House counsel for President Barack Obama during his first year in office, is expected in the coming weeks, people familiar with the case said. The investigation centers on whether Mr. Craig should have disclosed work he did in 2012 — while he was a partner at Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom — on behalf of the Russia-aligned government of Viktor F. Yanukovych, then the president of Ukraine.
The work was steered to Mr. Craig by Paul Manafort, who was then a political consultant collecting millions of dollars from clients in former Soviet states…
According to people familiar with the case, Manhattan prosecutors have retained control of the investigations of the two lobbying firms. They are Mercury Public Affairs, whose lead partner on the account was Vin Weber, a former Republican member of Congress, and the Podesta Group, led by ***Tony Podesta, a prominent Democratic fund-raiser whose business collapsed in 2017 under the glare of Mr. Mueller’s scrutiny…
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/us/politics/foreign-lobbying-gregory-craig-manafort.html
18 Mar: Newsbusters: Ted Koppel: Trump’s ‘Not Mistaken’ That Liberal Media Are Blatantly ‘Out to Get Him’
By P.J. Gladnick
Wow! This somehow slipped beneath the radar but it is highly significant considering who said it. In fact if you read just what the person said, you might even think that most of it was spoken by someone at NewsBusters. However, what is significant, is the words were uttered by former ABC News star Ted Koppel on March 7 during a discussion with Marvin Kalb at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace…
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/pj-gladnick/2019/03/18/ted-koppel-trump-not-mistaken-about-biased-liberal-media
40
19 Mar: UK Telegraph: Live: Brexit latest news: Theresa May weighs options to get around John Bercow ruling
Speaker causes ‘major constitutional crisis’ with ruling on Withdrawal Agreement
Bercow just made Brexit all about him… and he couldn’t have looked happier
Analysis: Bercow’s intervention may mean long journey ahead
Exclusive poll: No deal is better than Brexit delay, say voters
‘The Civil Service is trying to sink Brexit. I have seen it from the inside’
Theresa May will convene a meeting of her Cabinet today after her Brexit plans were dealt a significant blow by the Commons Speaker.
John Bercow scuppered the chance of another Commons vote on the Prime Minister’s deal before Thursday’s EU summit, leading one minister to warn that the…
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/19/brexit-latest-news-theresa-may-options-speaker-john-bercow-ruling/
19 Mar: Bloomberg: Brexit Bulletin: Wrecking Ball
By David Goodman
It was House of Commons Speaker John Bercow, a man never far from the headlines throughout the Brexit process, who dealt the telling blow. In his statement yesterday, Bercow invoked a rule – dating back to 1604 – that the same motion cannot be put to a vote repeatedly…
There was a strong element of anger in the government’s reaction, with a different official saying the Speaker was trying to force a softer Brexit and give Parliament control of the process. Meanwhile, the solicitor general, Robert Buckland, said the decision had led to a “major constitutional crisis.” …
The Speaker’s intervention saw him dubbed the “Brexit Destroyer” by the Daily Express, while the Guardian’s Polly Toynbee said he has given new hope to campaigners for a second referendum…
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-19/brexit-bulletin-wrecking-ball
40
pat:
Of course Bercow wants a second referendum as a means of remaining in the EU. He’s a noted Remainer.
His trouble is timing. The government is fast running out of time to do anything.
May can’t unilaterally cancel Article 50, and any better offers from the EU haven’t time to be decided, even if certain Nations don’t disagree.
The Queen could prorogue Parliament (on request) but it is doubtful they could shut for 24 hours before voting in May’s bill without widespread agitation among the public.
Much as many politicians and public servants don’t agree, the only answer is to Brexit. Yes, unprepared and with enmity on the part of the EU Commissars whose life style will be curtailed and possibly cancelled as more Nations decide to dump them but remain in a Common Market. They tried to override local prejudices and customs too quickly; two or three generations would have been better timing.
20
OT and good news the AEMO are forecasting no shortages for the next two years .
https://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#nem-dispatch-overview
20
And we’re to suppose that that prediction isn’t based on averages? Is that RickWill I hear scoffing at their arithmetic?
40
Yes.
Fifty two percent of all current industry will be gone by then.
And with the wholesale installation of “Smart Meters” it will be easy to introduce more regular “demand management” that balances supply and demand.
Many of us should be able to find jobs in the Southern Chinese provinces near their New industrial hubs.
Thank you Scomo and Shortonone.
KK
60
To remain is a terrible fate,
With the U.K. a poor vassal state,
Best to heed the appeal,
To depart with no deal,
And to do so before it’s too late.
110
‘The British government must submit a different proposition to parliament to the one it lost last week if it wants to hold another vote on its Brexit plans, the parliament’s speaker, John Bercow, said on Monday.’
The Advertiser
30
Now that I have time to think about it, the proper answer to this Brexit catastrophe is a General Election.
The Queen holds the Reserve power to cancel the parliament and call a new general election. This was demonstrated in Australia in 1975 when our Governor General, Sir John Kerr sacked the Whitlam government. He paid a high price personally but it was the right thing to do.
I don’t know if QE2 cares to save her realm, but if she does not care then then why have a Royal Family? She did vow to serve her people for her whole life, short or long. Will she do anything now?
60
@Peter C
The window of opportunity for a GE is long passed if the country isn’t to Brexit by default on the 29th. Perhaps with an extension to Art 50, but that’s a tactic in itself and the Tories don’t want the Brexit process to go on any longer than necessary as it is proving political suicide for the party itself.
Personally, I just can’t shake off the niggling feeling that May has been angling for a No Deal Brexit for a while now. May has been told twice now that her deal is very bad, It would save the Tory party, they would probably walk the next election, it would save her legacy, it would shore up Democracy after the battering it has taken and May would be able to broadcast that she fulfilled her promise of “No Deal is better than a Bad Deal”.
I mean, seriously, who in their right mind would want to be the individual responsible for wrecking Democracy in the UK. The only places that would welcome her are Venezuela or N. Korea.
50
Father,George mother, Elizabeth, Queen Elizabeth herself, gave stirling service, duty with checks and balances to prevent divine rule of kings, (good ol’ Magna Carta,) her family are a bit nutz! No guarantees with inherited rule, yr Caligula, Nero …
71
The “No Deal” vote is actually non-binding, so if the WA doesn’t go through (and it won’t), and if there is no extension, then by the existing Act stipulating the leaving date, then we are out in 10 days.
70
Exactly.
50
No, you are certainly not a foreign trade whizz, Jo. And neither do you have the remotest idea about Brexit given the ignorant morons you have quoted here. Gerard Lyons-FFS, a total cretin. Here’s a tip – stick to what you normally do so well and leave this subject well alone. If it makes you feel better, most of our MPs know little more than you do and we pay them to know what they are doing.
45
Well Gerry, I don’t have the remotest idea about Brexit.
I am always keen to learn.
With your wealth of knowledge and wisdom on this subject,
would you be so kind to enlighten me.
80
Gerry of England:
Are you saying the UK Press, including those paragons of honour, virtue and verity, the BBC, The Guardian, the Telegraph, the Daily Mirror(p3), and all the world’s other giants of publishing and reporting have been consistently, continuously and maliciously misinforming the rest of the world, and especially Oceania, about Brexit?
Like, they’ve been lying to us?
As jack has requested, perhaps you could do the readership here a service and enlighten us from your deep well of superior knowledge so that we don’t remain “ignorant morons”?
But before you do, here’s a tip: you should make an effort to find your manners first — you seem to have mislaid them.
90
It’s thanks to Jo that certain of us (expat Poms) realised we could have a vote in the Referendum in 2016. Cheers Jo, and I hope that we can raise a glass of fizz in celebration late on the 29th next week. It certainly is the law that a no deal Brexit should hapoen that night and can’t be overriden by anything else as at the moment.
70
I think that business schools will soon be giving their students details of the UK’s BREXIT negotiating methods as an object lesson in how NOT to negotiate.
90
The problem with any “negotiation” is that the Brits never had a strong hand. Yup they can declare all they like and anything they like but they are subject to an international treaty they freely entered into to be in the EU. To meet their freely assumed obligations they need to reach agreement with all the other parties on an exit deal which they have simply not been able to do.
Fine, all well and good. If they cant reach agreement they crash out in a no deal Brexit and accept all the consequences of that and the responsibility.
Its actually pretty simple. The pro brexit side lied to the electorate about how easy it would be to do and the “benefits” of Brexit. Its obvious now that they never had a plan (or a clue) because they never expected to win the referendum. Look how fast Bad Hair Boris bugged out after the referendum when called on to step up and lead!! Bit like our Peter (the Hammock Dweller) Costello after the Rodent got the flick.
The pro Brexitiers would have actually prefered to lose because of the domestic politics leverage they gain from the leave / remain question being unresolved. Bit like the Coalition here with Asylum seekers. Take that issue away and they lose theor long term skeer and fear campaign.
Now…… they either crash out no deal, accept the consequences and make the best of it, or, they withdraw the proposal to Brexit.
I dont think there is much chance they can negotiate a deal that will both get accepted by the wabble that is the UK parliament AND all the EU nations. Its even looking like they will have to talk real fast to get any kind of extension. I mean, they havent come up with any coherent statement of what an extension would achieve and cant realistically expect the EU nations to a accept the cost to themselves of further uncertainty with no better end in sight.
Its proper that the UK should look to its own interests, but they have to accept that the UK nations will all look to theirs as well.
The passing of the motion to NOT exit no deal may not be as silly as it first appeared and provide an out. If there is no deal thats going to fly they could argue for an extension on the basis that they want time to vote on cancelling their proposal to Brexit so that they actually honor the motion that parliament HAS passed to NOT do a no deal Brexit.
Technically, that no no-deal motion may be more binding than the referendum result as my understanding is that a referendum result is NOT binding on the parliament. The pollies are just scared of the backlash from the idiots who voted to leave with no idea of how it was actually going to happen.
Lol! Will make their next general election a regurgitated dogs breakfast of an afair.
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@philthegeek
Negotiation were not necessary to leave the EU. The invocation of Article 50 was all that was required, notice to leave. It was voted in Parliament by a massive majority of MP’s.
The principle here being, had the remain side of the referendum won the UK would right now, be in the EU 100%. No deals, no 50/50, no nothing.
The belief amongst Leavers was that their vote would mean we leave the EU 100%. There was no mention of negotiation or deals on the ballot paper nor by any politician in the run up to the referendum.
The problems started when, in an effort to frustrate, indeed overturn the Democratic decision to Leave the EU, our remain loaded government went all out to Leave as ‘lightly’ as humanly possible. Hence Mrs. May’s ‘deal’, described as ‘The worst deal in the world’. It so happens that on two separate occasions that has been confirmed by MP’s, the first of which saw a defeat for the government never hitherto witnessed in Parliament. Mr.s May’s second attempt to have that motion passed exposed her to be the liar many had accused her of being. She promised the country that “No Deal is better than a Bad Deal”. Her deal was demonstrable a Bad Deal and has been confirmed as so, yet she wanted to present it for a third time having bullied and harangues MP’s with threats of cancelling article 50 altogether.
Our government loaded every Cabinet position they possibly could with remain voting MP’s, other than one or two notable exceptions One being David Davis, an experienced politician, a reasonable man and a Leave voter who was appointed Chief Brexit negotiator. He resigned in disgust at the level of manipulation and bullying over a single, simple process.
Your second paragraph uses the usual emotive language of the remain campaigners “crash out” when there is nothing to suggest there would be any disaster in leaving the EU. And just what responsibilities would anyone be forced to “accept”. Brexit has never been done before to this level, there is no evidence from a historical perspective that there would be any negative consequences. By the same token, there’s no historical evidence the opposite would be true either. It’s simply the rhetoric of Project Fear.
The first statement you made in your third paragraph utterly fails to recognise the lies told by the remain faithful establishment:
– European Council President Donald Tusk, said western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted ‘Leave’.
– David Cameron implied in a speech about the “serried rows of white headstones” that World War 3 would be upon us if we voted Leave. (WW3 FFS!)
– George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented. (They never happened).
– Remainers told us there would be an immediate referendum recession. (The economy did rather well).
– 3 million people in the UK would lose their jobs after the referendum. (in July the claimant count fell by 8,600)
– Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage’s claim of EU plans to create an army a “dangerous fantasy” (Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker proposed an EU Army).
– We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. (UK car manufacturing achieving its 12th successive month of growth in July 2016, with production passing one million units in seven months for the first time in 12 years. Honda in Swindon has stated their move back to Japan has nothing to do with Brexit).
– David Cameron said he wouldn’t resign as Prime Minister if he lost the Referendum vote. (Hah!)
I could go on! However, between the referendum and now there have been innumerable other lies like Our Ports couldn’t cope with delays (refuted completely by both the managers of Calais and Dover), there would be shortages of insulin and blood pressure tablets (Europe’s main manufacturer of Ramipril is in in the UK!) and of course, there would be shortages of food and clothing which would be difficult as business simply will not stop trading at the flick of a switch.
As much as I dislike the man, Boris was stabbed in the back when it came to the leadership campaign by none other than Michael Gove, who was also unsuccessful. Boris didn’t ‘bug’ out.
Your fourth paragraph is just complete rubbish.
Your fifth paragraph isn’t much better. There are still a number of options available including requesting a delay of article 50 which can be short or long; renegotiating the WA; No Deal; and of course withdrawing article 50 altogether.
I largely agree with your sixth paragraph.
My understanding is that the question of ‘No Deal’ being included in the negotiations had been voted down by Parliament. Perhaps you know something I don’t though, as you suggest in your eighth paragraph. The remainder of the paragraph is difficult to follow. Apart from anything else ‘No Deal’ is the default position on the 29th March. If an extension to article 50 is granted by the EU then that merely extends that default position out for an, as yet, indeterminate time.
Your ninth paragraph isn’t entirely inaccurate. Brexit can be cancelled by withdrawing article 50 and as you rightly point out there would be trouble in the streets. Your contention this would be undertaken by Leave voters only in entirely wrong. Most remain voters accepted the referendum result as it was founded on the principle of Democracy. They value that principle far more than a the process of leaving the EU which should have been recorded as a footnote in the pages of British history. Instead, it represents the overturning of democracy in the cradle it was founded and popularised by every civilised nation in the world.
So whilst you might sneer at Leave voters, slander us with distorted accusations, and snigger over the possibility that Brexit may be overturned, be careful what you wish for. The subversion of Democracy could be visiting you very soon following the frustration of a Democratic decision to Brexit.
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So, question…..
Is the UK parliament behaving like the Peoples Front of Judea or the Judean Peoples Front??
The Brits seem to be taking the position that if the EU don’t give em what they want they will Brexit with no deal. Although now they have passed into law that they wont Brexit with no deal. But that doesn’t actually matter because March 29 they are out anyway if they don’t do a deal. But they are keen to extend the self spanking and pain ( private school background of the pollies?? ) By getting an extension during which they will do……what?? Putting proposals up that wont be accepted by the EU and lead to no deal Brexit in a few months??
If this wasn’t serious it would be funnier than the OP here.
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A ‘no deal’ Brexit is their only real choice.
I noticed the Australian PM is in full control, infrastructure …. infrastructure ….. infrastructure.
‘Scott Morrison will progress plans for fast-rail links between the nation’s three biggest cities and their regions and cut the annual migration intake by 120,000 over the next four years in a sweeping decentralisation blueprint to ease crippling congestion in Sydney and Melbourne.
‘As revealed by The Australian, restrictions will also be placed on the number of permanent migrant settlements in the major capitals, along with incentives to drive foreign students into the regions as part of the first comprehensive policy to address unchecked population growth over the past decade.’ Oz
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Lol! 🙂 Well, it would make a change wouldn’t it eg??
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Fifteen percent reduction in immigration falls well short of any sensible number but at least he’s started the process and the cuts can be increased year on year until we reach the ninety percent he should have set. Adding a million immigrants every four years has created problems too numerous to detail in a single line post.
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Given the probability of ScoMo being PM in June…….is what he says now of any realistic importance??
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Ah yeah, the election will be won in the regional and rural electorates.
Decentralisation, new workers and students (imports), satellite cities and very fast trains. Bread and circuses in the bush.
You can still get 5/1 on a Coalition victory, odds will be shortening.
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Love to see what the odds do if they bring back Barnaby. 🙂
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Michael McCormack is a pathetic moderate and the Party needs to be purged of his ilk.
The government’s decentralisation plan is a big ticket item, lots of city and country votes in this.
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“odds do if they bring back Barnaby”
Your FEAR is palpable !!
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ooo…AngryG55 triggered to chime in with abuse rather than discussion! Much surprisiment. 🙂
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Yawn, where’s the abuse, phloop.?
Just stating the obvious.. seems I triggered a nerve, hey. 😉
No content in you posts.
You poor little SJW.
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i forecast a stunning Coalition victory at the federal election.
Decentralisation, very fast trains and satellite cites in the regions will finally give recognition to the poorest electorates in Australia. The Greens will like it.
00
From a parody of the Eagle’s Hotel California song
Welcome to the Hotel Europe Union.
.
.
.
I had to find the passage back,
To the place I was before.
Relax, said the Eurocrat,
We are programmed to receive;
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave. . .
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A Plea – see below.
Firstly, thanks to Jo for a great article, to the authors of the many excellent comments and to all you Aussies for your support for us Brexipomms!
Now for the plea: please do NOT call the ghastly surrender document (so called because it’s so similar to the thing signed in Versailles) May’s “deal” – it is neither May’s nor a deal. The surrender is an International TREATY drawn up by Merkel as revenge for us (with your much appreciated help) winning two world wars against her country.
That our PM and the Remainer elites around her think this Treaty is acceptable in making as a vassal state forever is treason.
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making us
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@Mardler
Seconded!
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Brexit – as soon as I heard there was an vote – I said to my wife – watch the £ devalue!
I personally do not vote since one person does not have the right to impose rules on others and therefore how can power, that we do not have, be transferred to others.
Anyhow – democracy is simply mob rule and those who have an intellectual investment in politics are clearly intellectually redundant.
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@P Devlin
Did you also say, watch unemployment fall, the stock market rise or the economy grow?
Democracy does not transfer powers, it allows people to act on our behalf. It’s not perfect but the alternative is sitting on your backside doing nothing and waiting for communism to roll in.
Those who don’t have an intellectual investment in politics are simply lazy sods and deserve all they get.
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