Expensive birds
California Valley Solar Ranch Photo Credit: Sarah Swenty/USFWS
Oops. On June 5th, an event described as “an avian incident” started a fire at the California Valley Solar Ranch plant in California. The 250MW plant was reduced to 40MW of generation. It’s expected to be back up and running on July 1. By then the incident will have cost the company $8m.
‘Avian Incident’ Knocks Out 84% of Massive California Solar Farm
by Millicent Dent, Blomberg
An “avian incident” sparked a fire at one of California’s biggest solar farms, affecting 1,200 acres and knocking out 84% of the California Valley Solar Ranch’s generating capacity.
Impressive company spin:
” incidents such as these give us continued confidence in our risk prevention and mitigation plans.””
It’s not clear if this was one bird, or a flock.
The plant covers 2000 acres (8km2) was built in 2013 at an estimated cost of $1.6b using a $1.2b loan from taxpayers through the DoE. It makes about 550 GWh a year at times that may or may not suit Californians. No doubt readers here will help out comparing the output of an equivalent coal plant built at a similar cost. Imagine if a flock of birds (or just one) put a coal plant out of action for nearly a month?
It’s just another reminder that complexity costs. More infrastructure spread over more area means more potential points of failure. On the plus side, the bird incident obviously didn’t affect generation for half the time this month. (Nighttime).
h/t Pat.
check the pics:
PICS: 21 Jun: ABCNebraska: Wind turbine blades halted on trucks near Axtell
by KHGI
AXTELL, Neb. — Three wind turbine blades are stuck on a road just west of Axtell, and the Nebraska State Patrol said they’ve been there since Wednesday.
NSP said the trucks carrying the blades haven’t been able to navigate around the corner from Highway 44 from Wilcox onto Highway 6, but they’re hoping to find a solution sometime Thursday.
The blades were sitting on the northbound lane on Highway 44, and traffic is reduced to one lane around the blades…
https://nebraska.tv/news/local/wind-turbine-blades-halted-near-axtell
131
What would a $400 drone do?
60
Conventional wind plants only reach full power when the wind blows about 33 mph, which is rare in most places. So there is a new design coming out that gets full power at about 23 mph (still rare) but the blades are enormous (hence expensive). Delivery may be difficult.
90
We have HUNDREDS of YEARS of coal supply for power stations yet we must import windmills.
Australians would import air if the government subsidized it.
170
Then be sure to tell your government about these guys, I’m pretty sure they ship to Australia.
https://www.freshrockymountainair.ca/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
20
$US1.6 Billion for a Nameplate of 250MW, and an equivalent output of 75MW. (The plant is claimed to operate at a Capacity of 30%)
So, over the best case scenario for power delivery, that it continues at the current CF, (and good luck with that) then across its 25 year life span (and good luck with that also) it will deliver 16.9TWH of power.
And they say that USC Coal fired power is too expensive.
A two Unit plant with 1200MW generators.
Nameplate 2400MW. Lifetime CF – 75%.
So, over its 50 year life span, it will deliver 790TWH, FORTY SEVEN times the total power delivery of this solar plant.
So, at $US1.6 Billion for the solar plant, then the equivalent cost for the equivalent power is $75.2 Billion.
Please, do not ever try and tell me a new HELE will cost $75 Billion, or in AUD, $108.4 Billion.
Tony.
420
sarc
It’s a pretty shoddy regulatory bureaucrat who can’t make a coal plant cost whatever you want.
And I’ll bet it wold be like falling off a log to find a couple of university eggheads to compute
a ‘lifetime social cost” or something far higher. You people dealing with ordinary casts and benefits
are so last century
/sarc
I can’t think of a problem in contemporary society that is economically daunting, if the science is there.
IN broad terms, we spend enough on welfare annually to give each client a middle class life, yet make no dent in the population of the depressed (US).
A recent interstate modification left a local contracting and equipment business, formerly just off the exit, nearly a three mile loop away. A 40 foot bridge over a usually dry culvert was the solution. The Feds specified a 2.4 Million dollar project, ten years out. An appeal to the state resulted in a five year plan for 1.2 Million.
The county and city were in the 3 year time frame, and takling about 600,000 dollars.
The accptable spec had been supplied by the aggrieved company. Noting that the area was privately owned land (the govt had only an easement), the company went out on a weekend, and built the bridge to spec, for about 40,000.
Naturally, they were forced to tear it out, and pay damages of 2.4 million dollars, and the culvert was declared an unbuildable wetland.
Details highly modified to protect the innocent — and the case is still in court.
And this is why your government can tell you that their bird damaged solar facility is far more cost-effective that a stupid HELE coal plant. They can make coal be really really expensive.
150
Bizarre.
Likewise, here in Australia all of the local and state governments are full of the little tyrants who act out the confusion and distraction required by the main manipulators.
The average person has no idea that all of this apparently petty Cr&p is causing unnecessary cost increases of living for them, loss of jobs and community disharmony instead of progress, contentment and fulfillment.
KK
10
Id like to see a bird flock try to knock out a coal or nuclear or hydro power station.
More of this type of incident is needed to get the ‘tards’ to realize the futility of un-renewables vers REAL power generation.
180
Water weed or jelly fish are the preferred agents for Nuclear or Coal plant damage
417
Jellies are extraordinary and hold the clue to immortality.
‘The lack of complex physical features makes jellies extremely adaptable and the things that restrict other marine animals—such as temperature, acidity, salinity, light, or darkness—don’t faze them. They combine plantlike simplicity, animal-like mobility, and an almost bacterial ability to reproduce rapidly under favorable conditions.
‘There’s even a species of jellyfish that achieves near-immortality by turning back into a polyp — a less mature version of itself — when injured. The polyp can then produce identical copies of the injured jelly and the jelly can revert back to the polyp again and again, indefinitely.’
Jstor Daily
110
Jellyfish also have a remarkable similarity to Most Greens, they have no brain or spine.
10
Peter Fitz, do GetUp/the looney left assign one crazy leftist to each conservative or skeptic blog?
Tim Blair’s blog on the news limited site has its carbon copy (pun intended) crazy leftist in the form of Bruce JM.
He constantly posts ridiculous assertions in the manner that you do.
Bizarre, on both fronts.
121
A contrarian, even those who clutch at straws, are good value.
20
What?
I don’t see anyone “clutching at straws”.
All I see is a little, bad mannered boy trading on Jo’s good will.
Perhaps the straw image is good to continue with: the little boy is sucking up milk with his straw and then spraying it over the blog.
KK
31
Our collective argument is too strong, so he clutches for memes which support the paradigm and impresses nobody.
We argue that Peter Ridd should have the right to speak, yet you want to deny PF a voice here. This blog needs an inane contrarian, otherwise its just us waving our hands and cracking jokes.
20
for his intelligence and knowledge. He has a learning deficiency. He either doesn’t read, doesn’t understand, or doesn’t learn from all the science he is exposed to here.
Or he’s paid to ignore it all. He doesn’t learn, because it’s not his pay grade.
Choose the most appropriate.
10
No “damage ” to any Nuclear facility from jellyfish, little Peter.
MASSIVE damage to the solar farm, from birds, wind, hail, dust storms etc etc
You are making empty gibberish sounds….. yet again
61
Cyclones ( Puerto Rico’s whole renewable power system was wiped out in the first 10 minutes). One well placed sorte can do the same thing, indeed one well placed rocket we already know can take down South Australia already.
Our national security is completely exposed by flimsy indefensible renewable generation.
00
easy here is one..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5jfCb6-2RA
60
and with climate change BAD birds are getting bigger..and more numerous but good birds smaller and less numerous.
100
Gives fantasy fiction a bad name !
40
“Water weed or jelly fish are the preferred agents for Nuclear or Coal plant damage”
Also …
Warm waters of a coal fired power plants are the preferred life saving agent for manatees …
“The coal-burning Big Bend Power Station on Florida’s western coast is part of an energy system that provides over 730,000 people with power.
But for several dozen hulking, gray-skinned manatees, it means survival.”
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a24007/florida-manatee-coal-plant/
140
Also, turns out carbon (sic) induced boiling acidic oceans are a truly lousy way of causing jellyfish and seaweed to become extinct.
60
I have lived within view of this plant for nearly 40 years an written about it often.
The stock photo is obsolete, as the painted (original) stack has been torn down.
The plant is scheduled for conversion to duel use or gas, the final plans are not set.
It was reported locally that the company, as part of the last construction permit, provided a
long term guarantee to put warm water into the canal, even if the power plant is no longer operational.
This is a very clean power operation, built up to new construction standards.
It has a co-existant solar farm, by law. Shareholders can discover that it has a small negative impact on the cost efficiency of the plant.
There is also a demonstration solar at the Manatee viewing center, open as a free (and worthwhile) attraction in the winter when the manatee are in. For year around access to these gentle giants there is a rescue center at zoo-tampa, a samll zoo near downtown Tampa. There is also a rescue center at the aquarium at Mote Marine, near Sarasota.
The alternative for wintering of Manatees in the natural spring system at the head of a number of our rivers,
which are cold for human divers without wet suits, but a constant temperature suitable for the Manatee in winter.
The two enemies are man, and red tide. Many Manatee have boat scars, but there is a lot of awareness nowadays.
The red tide, which plagues west Florida from time to time, remains a mystery, but cause respiratory distress in mammals including both humans and manatee.
The population numbers are probably pretty accurate. Each year, when the blimps are in Florida to televise football games, they have been volunteered to meander up the coast photographing the Manatee habitats. Our coastal waters a shallow and clear, so manatee are easy to spot and count in the photos.
50
I don’t suppose the “avian incident” was a manifestation of “avian intent”.
50
The birds are fighting back. No more letting renewables kill them without resistance.
90
Well it certainly wasn’t an Agrarian incident, covering 2000 acres with metal, plastic and toxic elements isn’t good farming practice.
150
Comment #3 wasn’t there when I was composing #4!
10
check the video for a bit of fun:
18 Jun: Wind-Watch: ‘Out of control windmill’ leads to road closure in Palm Springs
Palm Springs Police have closed 19th Avenue between McLane Street and Karen Drive “due to a windmill that is out of control.”
Police made the announcement on Monday evening a little before 6 pm.
TWEET: Palm Springs PD
Location:19th and Mclane St
Date: 06-17-2019
Time: 17:46:07
Details: 19th between Mclane st and Karen Dr will be closed due to a windmill that is out of control. The Palm Springs Fire Department is on scene.
TWEET: Lauren Coronado, KESQ/CBS Local
***VIDEO 18SECS
Out of control windmill! 19th closed off between McLane St & Karen Drive in #PalmSprings (shaky video cause it’s sooo windy!) @KESQ
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2019/06/18/out-of-control-windmill-leads-to-road-closure-in-palm-springs/
plenty about the birds:
14 Jun: Wind-Watch: Longford Leader: Council retract conditional support for wind farm development
The final day of the oral hearing into the proposed development of a 24-turbine wind farm in Co. Longford took place in the Longford Arms Hotel, Friday June 14…
The hearing recommenced with Dr Gittings, Bord Na Mona, fielding questions on Whooper Swans. Dr Gittings said the data provided by Bord na Mona (BnM) in their EIAR was “sufficient proof that there was no connectivity between the northern flock of Whooper Swans in the area and Lough Ree.
This was counteracted by Mr Johnston, National Parks and Wildlife Service, who said in 2014/15 a large numbers of the birds were found on the site…
The next issue raised was in terms of breeding curlew populations…
A decision on the oral hearing is due to be made by July 31, 2019
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2019/06/14/council-retract-conditional-support-for-wind-farm-development/
70
How did the bird(s) start the fire? Poo on some sensitive item? Get fried in the reflections?
130
Never mind. One successful California industry is “greenwashing”. It’s a roundabout way of buying naughty coal power from, say, Utah or Arizona with something called a renewable energy certificate, something you generate with your solar panels and whirlygigs.
Now I know you’re all wondering why the solar panels and whirlies aren’t just making power rather than certificates…
Well, some shallow flyover type from Utah or Arizona might say it’s because wind and solar are clunky antique technologies which are intermittent, diffuse, expensive, damaging, incompatible and wasteful. Typical hick attitude! Californians should boycott…oh, wait, better not…
150
Greenies use bird brain logic to justify renewables
Real bird brains took one out
Karma
90
A white elephant got taken out by a sparrow…..
200
The last time a bird wasted that much power was during Theresa May’s last term………
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🙂
30
Just think about it. Knocked out 1200 acres. That’s a lot of land.
Former Australian Climate Councillor, Industrial Chemist Professor Will Steffen once wrote, the state of Victoria gets twice as much solar as it needs to power the state. It means he was stating that we have to cover half the state in solar panels just to match our existing few coal power stations. Unbelievable cost. Then where would we live? Where would anything live? I have never read a greater example of the total inadequacy solar power. It’s also a statement on what it take to get a PhD these days.
As for the bird attack, the environment is alive. It fights back. Rust, dirt, humidity, birds and age. All attack relentlessly. When we have finished building all these windmills owned by foreigners and opportunists and paid for with our cash, they will need replacing. I give it another ten years before it becomes a huge scandal as they stop turning one by one until you have pointless tens of billions of our dollars invested in Easter Island statutes, mute testament to the stupidity of a generation and the greed of capitalists and the lies of psuedo climate scientists.
Why did we even need a Climate Commission when we employ 500 full time meteorologists with degrees in the subject and another 350 PhD level people in the CSIRO to tell use about the climate? Why was the Chief Climate Commissioner someone who did English at University and a PhD in giant dead kangaroos? Why engineers and a Chemist and bureaucrats to tell us about the weather. Sorry, the Climate which is nothing to do with the weather apparently.
At what point did Australia go mad, or was it that evil combination, Communist politicians working with grasping Capitalists? After all, there is a great misconception that greedy capitalists are all conservatives when in fact they far prefer totalitarians. Hitler had his Krupp. Greens have their German windmill manufacturers and Chinese solar panel vendors and then there are all those Green jobs, desk jobs in the public service.
Birds. And the rest. Renewables? Yes, every 20 years you have to start again. Lifespan of a gnat.
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There are too many commissions in Australia. I think what is needed is a Commission dedicated to eliminating unnecessary commissions!
50
Exactly! I just hope I live long enough to see it happen.
40
No, he said there was sufficient insulation to do that but solar panels are only only 20% efficient. This implies that you need to tile an area 2.5 times the area of Victoria, and more than 25 times the area of Victoria if you actually want that energy reliable over Cloudy days at something approaching grid reliability.
It’s a good thing that Will Steffen is a chemist and not an engineer. He certainly consistency fails math.
PS, Will is so wonderful that I think we should give him the job of washing the bird, bat, and possums poo off those 20 billion solar panels each month. A math and engineering fail.
00
A fresh water pipe from the Ord to Bourke will require 15 to 20 pumping stations every 90 to 120 km. Wind and solar might be useful.
42
We used to use windmills to do our pumping. Nothing new there. And nothing to do with electricity.
120
Its a way of moving water cheaply.
51
For filling up the troughs for animals.
Come to think of it, that’s what renewables are doing now.
KK
150
The MDB could be drought proofed in a couple of years and we need something to power those pumping stations. Hele coal fired power stations would not be cost effective.
24
Like a good dam, deep and meaningful.
50
And an electrical system would have fewer moving parts.
That’s a good use for wind. Those tasks which do not require any specific time to be done. Totally unsuitable for anything else where you need commandable power. The South Australian exercise showed that a $100Million battery lasts a few seconds. Everything has a good use. Powering a modern city on solar at night is impossible. Powering a manufacturing country on solar insane. And what do you do in the middle of a blizzard? Or a winter in Russia or Canada?
If it doesn’t work in one of the sunniest places on the planet, surely that tells the world it is useless in Norway.
110
It’s a way of moving [very small volumes of] water cheaply [and intermittently into tanks.]
Have you seen a 3ft dia (outlet) axial-flow pump on an individual farm irrigation setup? Large farms have 3 or 4 of those side by side for the use of a single farm. Can you picture the size of the motor required to drive just 1 such pump, then multiply that by the pumps required at a single pump station to deliver a national water reticulation system across a continent? Axial-flow pumps only deliver volume without pressure for flood irrigation and dam filling.
The moment you introduce any pressure into the equation with a centrifugal pump, your power requirements multiply and keep on multiplying the more pressure you require. If you are fighting static head across the landscape then you require pressure, plus you have massive friction head losses to compensate for over an enormous distance. The existing Kalgoorlie goldfields pipeline would be a minnow compared to a Kimberley-to-Darling River pipe system.
Intermittency is not going to work and goodness knows how much solar would be required to drive a bank of huge pumps. You’d need hundreds of Elon’s batteries to back everything up. The pumps along the pipeline would all have to be in phase. You couldn’t have cloud stopping one set of pumps if those upstream and downstream of it were pumping their guts out, or something is gonna blow.
100
OK thanks beowulf, we may have to build a canal. I’ll see what Beijing is doing.
10
Perhaps if we wait long enough Beijing will do it here as well 🙂
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They would surely win the tender.
Political will is required and the scheme shouldn’t cost more than a couple of billion dollars. The general argument is that pumping the water would make it too expensive, which is why I suggested solar and wind at the pumping stations.
00
A 1800km pipeline say 600mm diam can you imagine the cost of the civils without the mechanics?
Uphill and downdale! And then you want to power the pumps with part time energy. Sorry but I’m not convinced of the economics. Classic pipe-dream.
GeoffW
90
Most of the pipeline would have to be flat, like a railway. Unlike a railway, you could have lifts at specific locations between flat sections, even a bucketwheel. We in Victoria were forced to pay for a huge pipeline during the drought, $800 Million for 70km. Rammed across farms and properties without regard or compensation, under force of law. It was used once.
Then this one use was to dump water into the flooded Goulburn river after the drought had broken. When asked why they were emptying a dam into the flooded river, the operator said the water had been ordered six months before.
You wonder why anyone trusts a government. Wivenhoe nearly destroyed Brisbane because everyone believed Flannery’s insane ‘it will never rain again’ story. Now we have a giant pipe which has never been used. Like the giant desalination plant. Public servants and governments never tire of spending our money on useless things like windmills, pipelines and desalination. Even Turnbull’s stupid uphill battery is being built at a cost of billions. Why? Why? Why? It was never justified, like his gift of $444million to ‘save’ the Great Barrier Reef when no one had applied for the money.
So don’t worry about the economics, the logic or science. The government doesn’t.
140
‘Rammed across farms and properties without regard or compensation, under force of law.’
Its exactly how Beijing treat their people.
10
One 600mm pipe wouldn’t be worth the effort of laying. The trickle that you would get out of the Bourke end relative to the flow of the Darling River would be a joke. To put it in context, the pipe system from the Hunter River to Lake Liddell consists of 3 (or 4, can’t remember) pipes each of over 1 metre dia. The pipe system that supplies only ¼ of the lower Hunter Valley drinking water is 2 X 3ft dia pipes. We’re talking about topping up and drought-proofing a major river system. The volumes required to have any effect are going to be at least as great as those above with similar pipe diameters, where a 1m dia pipe has 67% greater capacity than a 600mm pipe.
The other thing to consider is that once a water reticulation system is announced, every man and his cat will want to be hooked up to it. You can see Alice Springs, Broken Hill, Mt Isa? and everybody else within cooee wanting a spur line to their town, all drawing off water. It would be a bun fight to see who gets water and who doesn’t, all adding to the total volume required.
TdeF
I’m not against moving water across a continent and I even think that it can be viable when all the alternate costs of running out of water are considered, but you’re speaking of a channel. Channels are unsuitable because:
• channels lose massive volumes of water through seepage (as in the MIA)
• channels lose additional water through excessive evaporation, especially in conditions like central Australia
• a bucket-wheel set-up is not going to deliver the volumes required, assuming you could survey all your channels with some fall
• what % of the initial water flow do you imagine you would get out of the Bourke end of a cross-continental channel based on experience elsewhere? I’d be very surprised if you ended up with even 25% over that distance. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if you ended up with far less.
I think pipes are the only way to go but with the proviso that you are going to need “real” power to the pumps. In other words you need pipes, pumps and transmission lines from each end.
70
We could do it for the price and engineering of Turnbull’s Snowy II scheme, which appears to be going ahead simply because he wanted it. No real costing. $6Bn, $12Bn? Who knows? Payback? Never. Another desalination plant.
If our pipeline $800million for 70km then $8Bn for 700km but with the economies of scale, far less.
You see we could have our N/S pipeline for that sort of money, that sort of engineering and a fraction of the lift with new water, not pumping water uphill a great distance, far greater than is needed in a pipeline.
No wasteful canal. Water runs downhill either way with even the slightest fall and a lot of weight.
40
So what are they going to use to pump the Snowy River back uphill? At our expense. It’s all madness. Why isn’t Morrison stopping it? Why are we spending all that money because Malcolm and friends want a (another) Green monument to their reign?
30
If not a bucket wheel, then what. It hardly matters to the argument that $6-$12 Billion would be better spent on a N/S pipeline which actually delivers water south. The Romans did such things. So did the Babylonians. Without our earth moving equipment and our trucks and our engines. Water is the key to live and we Australians are not even allowed build dams by the alleged Greens who should be the Browns. They want the desert to stay a desert while they live close to a cafe in the inner city.
70
Besides, what’s wrong with a covered channel, if it is simpler? It’s not for us to debate but really if Snowy II could be used to actually bring more water into the system, that would be great. It looks like is being built to glorify Turnbull and justify more windmills when in fact coal power will be used to pump the water uphill for hydro. None of it is actually being justified, which is criminal.
50
You’ll get no argument from me about Turnbull’s pet project. Morrison should have axed it as soon as he took over, that and the Paris commitment. I saw an engineer’s report from the ’80s that assessed Snowy II as a load of unviable rubbish when it was first proposed, and that was in the days when we had enough coal power to waste on it. The figure I saw was that it would take 25% of NSW’s coal power output to run a Snowy II project, of which 30% would be immediately lost pumping water uphill.
80
Like Capital Hill Wind Farm TdeF, built they claimed to offset grid energy demand from the Sydney, Kurnell, Desalination Plant, will a new Wind Farm be the source of energy to pump the water uphill?
Note Infigen Energy, the company reported as having a shareholder who was “Born Lucky”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Wind_Farm
10
This would be. TOY compared to “The Great Man made River”…. Libya’s water distributin system..
They pump water from artesian basins to every major city in Libya
China has am even bigger scheme under construction.
We are just dreamers in comparison !
60
That’s massive. How long before that artesian basin runs dry?
40
The irony of the Libyan scheme is they are effectively pumping those huge volumes of water FROM THE SAHARA DESERT to northern coastal areas.
You use pipes if you HAVE to pump. (Libya)
Tou use canals (Capped) id you can use gravity ..(China)
And dont forget the revised “gravity” Bradfield scheme planning to mostly use existing waterways, just being fed with huge extra volumes of water.
10
Yes, how you gravity feed water uphill to the richer agricultural districts where it is needed has yet to be explained. The QLD rivers either drain west-east to the coast or southwest to Lake Eyre.
The Katter version of the Bradfield Scheme is still designed to send water southwest through western QLD via Coopers Creek etc into northwest SA through the arid country and ultimately into Lake Eyre. Southern QLD and all of NSW would miss out altogether. It is not hard to see why it was never implemented. A total waste of water and money then and still a waste if that method were implemented.
00
“where a 1m dia pipe has 67% greater capacity than a 600mm pipe.”
A reminder, to never buy a 10 in pizza if you have appetite/room for a 12 in one. Costs a lot less/sqr in.
40
I do know of a pizza place that serves 1m dia pizza’s !
And another that serves on 3 m long X 0.5m wide !
How big is your appetite ?
Best to bring friends !
Oh yes, …and Desert is Nutella pizza !!
00
Yep, a 1m diameter pipe has roughly 3 times the capacity as a 600mm diameter pipe.
Also less pipe friction per area.
But still, to deliver any meaningful amount of water would probably require pipes of 3m+ diameter (probably substantially bigger). And the pumping costs would be horrendous.
Gravity based pipe system with small reservoirs at regular interval to make pumped steps, with the main pipes not running under pressure would probably be cheaper in the construction than a covered channel.. Either way, it would be a mammoth undertaking.
10
‘I think pipes are the only way to go but with the proviso that you are going to need “real” power to the pumps.’
In that case it would need to be Hele coal fired power stations, presumably. I can’t see them stumping up the monies for that unless they also built new cities and a VFT network.
Would a new Hele in western Queensland be enough or would we need another in the NT?
00
As Geoffrey Williams suggested above, we are probably arguing over something that will not happen at all or will not happen in our lifetime.
The Ord is a long way from Bourke. The Burdekin is closer. Whether either is politically do-able is the first obstacle, and doubtful. I can’t see Anaesthesia Pallet-jack agreeing to a water diversion system on top of the Adani backflip. Trad and the Greens would go into orbit. A government happy spend $320 grand on Al Gore but only $100 grand on its starving farmers? And a federal government willing to waste $400 million on a dodgy GBR outfit that didn’t even ask for the money, but only $100 million on farming families who are on the brink.
Personally I think 2 HELE power stations are top priority: 1 for north QLD; 1 for NSW, preferably on the Liddell site. I realise water is top priority if you’re living west of the Divide in NSW or QLD and you’re getting suicidal drinking mud and watching your stock waste away while the folks in the big cities continue on like there is no drought. The sad fact is that any water diversion scheme is not going to directly benefit 95% of drought affected farmers in those areas, only those along the Darling River. You can’t pipe water from the Ord or Burdekin to every dry paddock in NSW.
20
One reason….
..Future planning
What is the advantage of the Ord proposal , over the Burdekin / Hells Gate option. ?
10
One thing for sure is that we’ll have no problems with environmentalists, taking water from an artificial lake to drought proof the MDB should get Green support.
By comparison the Queensland option will create political friction.
10
‘You can’t pipe water from the Ord or Burdekin to every dry paddock in NSW.’
True, but like the branches in a tree it could cover western Qld and the whole MDB with modest sized dams.
When you look at what they have spent over the past decade on water buyback and the political angst that has caused, Morrison can do better.
There is no point in building the Ord pipeline if they don’t go ahead with a decentralisation strategy.
10
There’s another job opportunity at a solar plant.
Hiring someone to pray every day that there won’t be a hail storm!
Tony.
170
A couple of “hail” Maries
110
Probably be minarets?
30
Pray tell.
What does a ranch hand do at a solar ranch?
30
Points at a Roman Numeral ? 😉
00
I remember the oil crisis in the 1970s. Everyone discussed what to do. It was a world disaster. The disaster we have today is similarly man made
by people who think you can really run this planet without oil, gas, coal. Just pretend for a second and consider fossil fuels did not exist. It would be the end
of the world as we know it. Singapore. Dubai. Tokyo. Sydney. No electricity, no horses, no refrigerators, no manufactured goods, chickens and bicycles and veggie patches, a Green dream.
We should be planning for this, but we are building windmills and solar panels, short term and utterly inadequate play solutions called renewables when it means replaceables, nothing more. We need just
as much real power as before because they are also unreliables, non commandables.
The cities would have to be abandoned, but where do 5 million Sinaporeans go? What about the 37 million in Shanghai? Or Tokyo’s 10 million?
Consider one of the wonderful ideas then. Offshore generators working on the ammonium refrigeration cycle and harvesting solar from the vast oceans using the temperature gradient from the warm surface to the cold depths. Hundreds of them. Small because the heat comes to them, unlike land based solar. The problem? Invasion of the ducts by sea life wanting the concentrated food in the outlets and a anchor for their feeding. Great idea. One of many.
We hear nothing these days on alternatives to wind and solar. Because it is only primitive stuff the politicians understand the the animistic Green religion where trees are sacred but they happily clear it all for their giant windmills. Not a scientist or novel idea to be found. All based on fear and ignorance, sadly like most religions.
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anyone ever see an Australian “environmental” group protest about a wind farm? or any approval of a wind farm being held up because of a bird?
18 Jun: AgriLand Ireland: Hearing into Derryadd Wind Farm: ‘Solar not an option at proposed (wind farm) site’
The hearing, which was chaired by John Desmond, planning inspector, An Bord Pleanála, was held to examine submissions made by a number of entities including the Irish Wildlife Trust; Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII); Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ISPCA); Inland Fisheries Ireland (IFI); National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS); and the ‘No to Derryadd Wind Farm’ group – all of whom have highlighted their opposition to the development…ETC
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/hearing-into-derryadd-wind-farm-solar-not-an-option-at-proposed-site/
19 Jun: HillsboroFreePress: Permit granted for wind farm despite protest
by Patty Decker
In the three-day hearing, which was June 3, 4, and 10, more than 60 people spoke, and of those 26 were in favor of the CUP with more than 35 opposing the project…
Lisa Hoffman, who owns land in Marion County, spoke about having 110 bird species on her land. Among those she showed pictures of wild turkeys, Meadowlarks, bluebirds, Carolina wrens and Baltimore Orioles, adding that all the birds on her property are an indicator of environmental health.
“The greater the diversity the greater the environmental health,” she said. “The wind turbines would impact sites like bald eagles, warblers…”…
https://www.hillsborofreepress.com/news/front-page/permit-granted-for-wind-farm-despite-protest
18 Jun: TheDispatch: Offshore Wind Farm’s Meteorological Tower To Be Constructed Next Month; Officials Express Concerns At Public Hearing
by Shawn Soper
OCEAN CITY — A 300-foot-plus (328-foot) meteorological tower will be installed about 17 miles off the coast of Ocean City next month in advance of the US Wind offshore wind farm project…
The tower will be used to collect wind resource data within the Maryland lease area in advance of the future installation of as many as 32 massive offshore wind turbines…
Since the Maryland Public Service Commission (PSC) in 2017 approved two offshore wind energy projects off the coast of Ocean City, town officials have been in a prolonged battle to have the two approved companies site their wind turbines as far as 26 nautical miles off the coast, or a distance believed to have them not visible from the shoreline. After considerable debate, US Wind acquiesced somewhat and has since agreed to place its turbines no closer than 17 miles from the resort’s coast…
“It was a public hearing, but there weren’t a lot of people there because I don’t think there was a lot of notice about it,” he said…READ ALL
https://mdcoastdispatch.com/2019/06/18/offshore-wind-farms-meteorological-tower-to-be-constructed-next-month-officials-express-concerns-at-public-hearing/
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Is this one of the contracts up for renegotiation after the Pacific Gas and Electric bankruptcy?
00
A new holywood blockbuster
The Revenge of the Birds
30
Puts a new perspective on “Bird Fright”
10
I’ve worked at a 500mw coal fired station and made redundant after 20yrs service, seen so much environmental impact and issues regarding reliability.
Just finished a 220mw solar farm project and seen some immediate impact regarding wildlife….plant isn’t even 100 percent yet …no one gives a [snip] here in South Australia..
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On rereading, change that to red!
10
“no one gives a **** here in South Australia..”
The sky blue Liberals don’t give a *****
The deep red Laborites don’t give a *****
The Greens don’t give a *****
The Orange Greenists in Center ( ?) Alliance don’t give a *****
And Cory Bernardi is closing down the Conservatives.
You’r right !
No One in South Australia gives a stuff
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In SI units mw = milliwatts.
Oops …
Did you mean/intend Mw? (Megawatts).
00
Today, California. Tomorrow, the world! The day after that, human extinction. What could go wrong with such a plan?
Oh well, they had “good intentions” or so they said. I don’t believe their intentions were all that good for us or for the birds.
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Its a simple reality – they wont back off, and we sure as eggs, wont either….
Its a stand off. But we cant afford to back off…our future depends on staring down the occult green bullies.
80
We might have to do a bit more than “staring down”. One thing is for sure, we have to stand and resist/fight as if our lives depend upon it. Because, if we don’t, we don’t have a chance.
50
Correct.
00
Gang Green is deadly.
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20 Jun: RenewablesNow: OZ Minerals to install wind, solar and storage at S Australia mine
Australian mining company OZ Minerals will start in July the construction of a hybrid power plant at its Carrapeteena Copper-Gold Mine in South Australia.
The installation will consist of a 250-kW lithium-ion battery, a 250-kW solar photovoltaic (PV) system and 10-kW wind turbine connected to existing diesel generators, the mining company said Tuesday.
South Australian government’s Renewable Technology Fund has supported the project with a AUD-1-million (USD 691,860/EUR 612,162) grant, according to a press statement by energy and mining minister Dan van Holst Pellekaan…READ ON
https://renewablesnow.com/news/oz-minerals-to-install-wind-solar-and-storage-at-s-australia-mine-658773/
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As this mine is in a very remote part of SA
And I suspect not connected to the grid
It may actually be a sensible move.
And anyway they do not want to get caught
By a SYSTEM BLACK event
As happened in 2016 courtesy of Weatheredall Labor.
30
Maybe, but there’s still a very high likelihood that diesel powered generation with fuel brought in on trucks would be better from every angle.
Cost, the environment and perhaps, strangely, CO2 output.
KK
10
The renewables reduce the logistical problems of shipping in enough fuel and help insulate against fuel prices, broken down trucks, flooded roads and the like. In particular they extend the runtime achieved given the fuel storage volume. Renewable / diesel combo systems are quite effective when you are remote. This is one of the viable renewable scenarios.
00
I strongly suspect the goverment funding was a major factor in that decision.
They get cheap power and still have the Diesel generation if needed.
And , of course it will help the site meet whatever the latest emmissions regulations they are threatened with.
Simple business decision.
20
Who would have thought there were kamikaze birds willing to sacrifice to save the flocks?
30
21 Jun: AP: EU leaders fail to agree on 2050 climate goal
By SAMUEL PETREQUIN and RAF CASERT; Frank Jordans in Berlin contributed to this report.
European Union leaders failed Thursday to back a plan to make the bloc’s economy carbon neutral by 2050 in spite of promises to protesters across the continent to fight harder against climate change.
Ahead of a U.N. meeting in the fall, the proposal was relegated to a non-binding footnote in the final statement of Thursday’s summit of EU leaders in Brussels.
Ahead of a U.N. meeting in the fall, the proposal was relegated to a non-binding footnote in the final statement of Thursday’s summit of EU leaders in Brussels.
“For a large majority of Member States, climate neutrality must be achieved by 2050,” the footnote read.
However, for the change in approach to become an official target, all 28 EU countries need to back the change…
“This is a black day for climate protection in Europe,” said Greenpeace spokesman Stefan Krug…
“The climate strikes by tens of thousands of students and the election choices of millions of Europeans for more climate protection were ignored,” he said…
https://www.apnews.com/d69955c229e94c67bff477ac6505a639
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read both:
21 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: EU climate deal fails amid four-nation revolt
Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary and Poland blocked an agreement on a net zero carbon target for 2050
By Sam Morgan for Euractiv
https://climatechangenews.com/2019/06/21/eu-climate-deal-fails-amid-four-nation-revolt/
20 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Brazil and EU face off over future of carbon trading
The next generation of carbon markets could make or break the Paris Agreement, say negotiators as talks resume in Bonn
By Natalie Sauer
https://climatechangenews.com/2019/06/20/brazil-eu-face-off-future-carbon-trading/
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20 Jun: KGW8: Gov. Brown sends police to find walkout GOP senators: ‘They need to return and do the jobs they were elected to do’
Senate Republicans walked out in protest over a cap-and-trade bill that pushes Oregonians to lower pollution by ditching fossil fuel engines.
by KGW staff/AP
SALEM, Ore. — Gov. Kate Brown on Thursday authorized Oregon State Police to round up GOP senators who have staged a walkout in protest of the cap-and-trade energy conservation bill…
In an awkward opening of the Senate, President Peter Courtney called it the “saddest day of my legislative life,” to ask Brown to use troopers to find the senators. The Thursday Senate session began with only Democrats answering roll call.
No Republican senators have shown up and some even left the state.
“In a few moments, I will not be in Oregon,” Sen. Cliff Bentz of Ontario told The Oregonian just after 7 a.m.
A spokeswoman for Senate Republicans confirmed some members left the state because state police don’t have jurisdiction outside Oregon. Oregon State Police can force any senators they track down in Oregon into a patrol car to return them to the Capitol.
OSP said Brown has authority under Oregon law to direct the agency to provide assistance with bringing back senators to the Capitol for quorum.
Democrats in Oregon control both the House and the Senate. Democrats have an 18 to 12 majority in the chamber, but need 20 members present for a quorum…
The missing legislators will be fined $500 for each floor session they miss starting Friday, with the money taken from salary or per diem…
Under the proposed cap-and-trade bill, Oregon would put an overall limit on greenhouse gas emissions and auction off pollution “allowances” for each ton of carbon industries plan to emit…
Those opposed to the cap-and-trade plan say it would exacerbate a growing divide between the liberal, urban parts of the state and the rural areas, which tend to be more conservative. The plan would increase the cost of fuel, damaging small business, truckers and the logging industry, which is already in freefall due to federal environmental protections, they say…
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/politics/gov-brown-sends-police-to-find-walkout-gop-senators-they-need-to-return-and-do-the-jobs-they-were-elected-to-do/283-3a3d22d5-7a51-424c-8fe1-1645b8516306
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20 Jun: KTVB: ‘It would be a death knell:’ Eastern Oregon truckers weigh in on cap-and-trade
Roy Henry, owner of Little Trees Trucking in La Grande, says he will either have to move his company to Idaho or go out of business if the measure passes.
by Joe Parris
Simply buying all-new trucks is not an option, Henry said.
“For guys like me and people I know in this community that drive trucks and own their own equipment, most of us would be out of business,” he warned. “We can’t afford to go out and buy new equipment.”
Bill Weissenfluh, who owns Bill Weissenfluh Trucking 50 miles down I-84 in Pendleton agreed.
“More than likely, my company will probably go under,” he said. “If I can’t make money doing what I’m doing, there is no reason for me to keep going.”
And his family is not the only one that would be affected by the dissolution of his company, Weissenfluh said.
“Five guys work for me,” he said. “I told them that I would give them a job, so I feel responsible for them and their families also.”
Henry said that if the bill goes through, relocating to a state with less restrictive rules will be the only way for many small companies to survive.
“For a lot of guys I talked to, that is what is going to happen,” he said. “They are going to shut down or move into Idaho, and operate out of Idaho and not come back into Oregon.”
“You pass this bill, you kill the state,” he said.
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/it-would-be-a-death-knell-eastern-oregon-truckers-weigh-in-on-cap-and-trade/277-842be194-3b6e-4bac-9a75-6728ec9a642d
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a “select” citizens’ assembly:
20 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: UK lawmakers announce citizens’ assembly to steer climate strategy
A cross-section of society will be invited to debate how to share the costs and rewards of meeting the government’s net zero emissions target
By Natalie Sauer
Six parliamentary select committees made the announcement in response to government plans to slash greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050.
Lawmakers focused on policies across business, energy, transport, science, housing, environment and finance all backed the democratic exercise, to take place over a series of weekend sessions…
Extinction Rebellion, whose demonstrations have propelled climate change up the UK political agenda in recent months, had called for a citizens’ assembly on “climate and ecological justice”…
“It is encouraging to see that our third demand is now being taken seriously by parliament,” campaigner Lynda Doyle said…
Earlier this month, France’s council of ministers announced the creation of a citizens’ convention…
https://climatechangenews.com/2019/06/20/uk-lawmakers-announce-citizens-assembly-steer-climate-strategy/
10
This was clearly an organised suicide mission by a group of birds who were determined to expose the cruel and unusual effect that these CAGW monstrosities are having on birds, bats and endangered species.
60
democracy is dead. NGOs, aided & abetted by FakeNewsMSM on behalf of the CAGW mob, rule:
VIDEO: 20 Jun: BBC: Climate protesters disrupt Hammond’s Mansion House speech
Climate change protesters disrupted the beginning of Chancellor Philip Hammond’s Mansion House Speech.
They were removed from the City of London event after several minutes and Mr Hammond was able to continue soon afterwards.
“The irony is that this is government that has just led the world by committing to a zero carbon economy by 2050,” said the chancellor.
Greenpeace said: “Business as usual is no longer an option.”
The organisation said 40 activists had “gatecrashed” the chancellor’s speech…
City of London Police said they were called by Mansion House security and escorted the protesters from the premises. No arrests were made…
At the event, Bank of England governor Mark Carney made his final Mansion House speech, which was about the future of finance.
Mr Carney, who ends his tenure as governor in January 2020, spoke about a new economy driven by changes in technology, demographics and the environment
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48713929
21 Jun: BBC: MP Mark Field accused of assaulting Greenpeace activist
Greenpeace has accused Foreign Office minister Mark Field of assault, after he pushed a female activist out of a black-tie City event.
Mr Field claimed he reacted “instinctively” and has referred himself to the Cabinet Office for an investigation.
He also apologised to the woman for “grabbing her” but said he was worried she may have been armed.
The Tory MP has been widely criticised but some people defended his actions…
City of London Police said it was looking into “a number of third-party reports of a possible assault”.
And Conservative chairman Brandon Lewis told ITV’s Good Morning Britain the party would investigate the “full details of what happened”.
Greenpeace campaigner Areeba Hamid told the BBC the activist had been “in shock” on Thursday night, but was recovering and had been reassured by the “outpouring of support” online…
Labour’s shadow women and equalities minister Dawn Butler tweeted: “This is horrific… [Mark Field] must immediately be suspended or sacked.”…
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48714864
21 Jun: UK Telegraph: Mark Field suspended after forcefully ejecting female activist in climate protest
By Jack Hardy; Anna Mikhailova, Political Correspondent and Gareth Davies
Mark Field has been suspended as a minister after pushing a female climate change protester against a pillar and marching her out of an event…
The Foreign Office minister for Asia and the Pacific, can be heard saying: “Can you get this person out?” The woman, wearing a sash reading “climate emergency”, replied: “It’s a peaceful protest.”…
10
20 Jun: AGU100: Journal of Geophysical Research: An ensemble data set of sea‐surface temperature change from 1850: the Met Office Hadley Centre HadSST.4.0.0.0 data set
This article has been accepted for publication and undergone full peer review but has not been through the copyediting, typesetting, pagination and proofreading process, which may lead to differences between this version and the Version of Record…
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2018JD029867
21 Jun: Guardian: William Happer: Trump aide pushing climate denial inside the White House
The physicist, 79, has a seat on the National Security Council – and thinks the science that proves global heating is wrong
by Emily Holden in Washington
By the early 1990s, the man now dubbed the “chief climate change skeptic” in Donald Trump’s White House had already decided he was uneasy with the science that showed humans were heating the planet.
He asked experts at the Department of Energy to discuss their work with him and was displeased with the attitude he sensed from a climate researcher, according to a story recalled by two of his colleagues.
“They were not just defensive; they just weren’t going to entertain questions,” said Richard Lindzen, an atmospheric physicist from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a critic of the scientific consensus on the climate crisis…
After Happer left the energy department feeling unfairly treated, he eventually became more involved with a movement convinced that world leaders were being duped by climate scientists. People he has worked with believe humans and their carbon dioxide pollution couldn’t possibly be causing worse droughts, fires and floods.
“He became very aware of the fact that these decisions were very political rather than scientific that were being made and still are,” said Patrick Moore, the chairman of the climate-crisis denying CO2 Coalition, which Happer helped start.’
Moore compared Happer’s quest to scientists persecuted throughout history: Galileo, Darwin, Mandel and Einstein, who each “had to fight against a so-called consensus”…
***The CO2 Coalition receives funding from the Mercer family, a top Trump donor that also gave more than $2m to organisations denying climate science in 2016. The group receives money from the billionaire conservative industrialists, Charles and David Koch too…
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/21/william-happer-trump-white-house-climate-crisis
***peanuts, Emily.
30
you are embarrassing yourselves, Reuters:
20 Jun: Reuters: In Greta Thunberg’s footsteps: the climate kids fighting for their future
by Aron Ranen, Martin Quin Pollard; Additional reporting by Francis Mukasa in Kampala and Matthew Green in London; writing by Matthew Green; editing by John Stonestreet
A keen reader of graphic novels, nine-year-old Zayne Cowie has a bookshelf laden with tales of the struggles of imaginary superheroes. Now, a real-life role model has inspired him to join a battle for his own planet’s future…
Kept awake some nights by fears that rising seas will devastate his native Brooklyn, Cowie came across a news story about Greta Thunberg…
No longer feeling quite so powerless, Cowie persuaded his mother to help him stage a parallel protest outside New York’s City Hall in early December. He has since kept vigil there 26 times…
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-youthactivists/in-greta-thunbergs-footsteps-the-climate-kids-fighting-for-their-future-idUSKCN1TL138
sure they do, Guardian:
21 Jun: Guardian: Teachers want climate crisis training, poll shows
Survey says teachers feel ill-equipped to educate pupils, as school strikes continue
by Matthew Taylor
The findings from YouGov research commissioned by Oxfam come before the latest round of school climate strikes on Friday, in which it is expected that hundreds of thousands of young people will walk out of classrooms around the world.
Noga Levy-Rapoport, from the UK Student Climate Network, said the results showed teachers and students agreed there needed to be a radical overhaul of the education system in response to the climate crisis…
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/21/teachers-want-climate-crisis-training-poll-shows
not the perfect analysis, but right in parts:
19 May: New Statesman: Morrison’s miracle: why the Australian Labor party suffered a crushing defeat
The election is one of the most spectacular, and unexpected, results in Australia’s political history
by Adrian Pabst
(Adrian Pabst is head of the School of Politics and International Relations at the University of Kent)
But it was in Queensland where the election was ultimately lost…
There are some stark lessons for the ALP and other social-democratic parties in Western countries. The first and most important is that the centre-left cannot win without cultivating working class support. Rather than staking its platform on workers and their jobs, Labor instead defended a position on climate change ***that appeals largely to middle-class voters.
In Queensland, for example, the party’s constructive ambiguity over the controversial Adani coalmine backfired. By attempting to be all things to all people, the party lost core working class voters…
Progressive themes such as climate change, equality and the inclusion of minorities are key in the battle against the Green Party and some independent candidates, but they do not deliver a popular or parliamentary majority…
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2019/05/morrison-s-miracle-why-australian-labor-party-suffered-crushing-defeat
30
behind paywall, but link works to the Copernicus PDF:
20 Jun: New Scientist: Weather forecasts could soon pin extreme events on climate change
By Adam Vaughan
“Today, another spell of sunshine, thanks to that ongoing area of high pressure. And we can confirm that last week’s flooding was made six times more likely because of climate change.” Not your usual weather report – but this could be the reality for Europeans within two years.
The climate arm of the European Union’s Earth observation programme, Copernicus, is looking for a company to start a trial service (LINK) that could lead to weather agencies in 2021 being provided with “timely …
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2206726-weather-forecasts-could-soon-pin-extreme-events-on-climate-change/
10
newscientist has really gone down the gurgler in the last 20 years.
00
It would be interesting to know better what the avian “incident” was, how the fire started, and what was the nature of the damage.
50
So, how much CO2 is produced in carbonizing a bald eagle with a solar plant?
50
Ignore the heading, the whole story about wind farm business is fascinating to read …
https://stopthesethings.com/2017/03/13/born-lucky-stars-align-perfectly-for-pms-son-with-mammoth-bet-on-wind-power-outfit-infigen/
10
Let’s not forget the output of 250Megawatts is gross capacity. Only 25% capacity factor. Just utterly hopeless. And also a bird killer.
10
Ask and ye shall receive. If one single Boeing 777 (80MW) engine was kept spinning that would generate 700GWh from a space that could be fitted on the back of a small truck. About 1.4 times more energy than 8 SQUARE kilometers of solar panels! And about 160000 times more space effective. (160,000 times the energy density).
Land is our scarcest resource and we waste it on this nonsense
00
Seen huge flocks of galahs and sulphur crested cockatoo at Bungala solar farm (Port Augusta) and no damage occurred whilst I was there, although we did often think of the individual string of panel cables hanging might be a target for them.
During construction we saw Dunnarts habitat destroyed and quite certain there were western grass wren there too…..smallest damn bird I’ve ever seen!
Funny how it just got built without too much publicity and hype….apart from some unfortunate events over the duration of construction.
10