Remember when we were told coal was dying?
Donald Trump is changing the rules which will keep older cheap coal plants running.
Trump ditches sole climate rule that aimed to reduce coal plant pollution
Emily Holden, The Guardian
Donald Trump’s administration is finalizing plans to roll back the US government’s only direct efforts to curb coal-fired power plant pollution that is heating the planet.
Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency will replace an Obama-era climate change rule with a regulation that experts warn could help some of America’s oldest and dirtiest coal plants to keep running.
His agencies have slashed programs designed to limit carbon dioxide from power plants, cars, and trucks, and encouraged oil drilling and coal mining.
Democrat states are expected to challenge the rule in courts, but Trump’s team argues that it doesn’t have the legal authority to regulate climate. Who does? God, maybe. If Trump wins that court case a whole lot of climate gravy may evaporate.
Trump will kill as many 80,000 people
One minute we’re talking about a pollutant that isn’t. Next thing, it’s a totally different pollutant that has nothing to do with CO2:
Coal plant air pollution – from tiny particles that enter the lungs – cause breathing problems and early deaths. According to an earlier estimate from EPA, the new rule could lead to 1,400 more deaths each year.
One academic analysis estimates that over a decade the repeal could lead to 36,000 deaths, and that other Trump environment rollbacks could lead to a total to 80,000 deaths.
If that health problem is real, there must be other better ways to solve it than by changing the global weather.
How many lives will be saved because electricity will be cheaper? Researchers estimate airconditioners save 20,000 lives in USA each year. The heaters in winter could save twenty times more.
Trump is handing back control of energy to the states — so some of them can wreck it themselves.
God bless America. When one state screws up, others will outcompete them.
New York just had to lead the climate fashion stakes:
New York to Enact One of the Most Aggressive Climate Bills in the U.S.
The bill would require New York to get 70 percent of its electricity from renewable sources by 2030, and by 2050, the state would have to cut emissions by at least 85 percent below 1990 levels.
In an interview with WCNY, Governor Cuomo called the bill “the most aggressive climate-change program in the United States of America, period.” If it succeeds, it will be the fifth such law enacted in the last year; the others include measures in California, Nevada, New Mexico, and Washington.
Huffpost: New York is doing a Green New Deal
Now lawmakers are expected to pass the bill, known by its acronym CCPA, in a vote Wednesday, when the three-day aging period between when legislators in Albany complete a deal and hold a formal vote ends. Once passed, the legislation would make New York the sixth state to adopt a 100% clean electricity target after Hawaii, California, New Mexico, Nevada and Washington. Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C., set similar targets.
The new rules would make some industries non-existent: h/t Ronald K
Good luck NewYork.
h/t Pat
“could help some of America’s oldest and dirtiest coal plants to keep running.”
Such prejudicial rubbish. Since when life dirty or pollution? All life generates CO2. We are not pollution. We are carbon life forms, made from carbon. CO2 becomes hydrated in photosynthesis to make carbohydrates. Try and live without them or their product. We cannot live without CO2. It is not pollution.
There is no evidence at all that CO2 is heating the planet, that heating is even bad and the increase in CO2 is perfectly natural and welcome and nothing to do with coal, gas or oil. Well done Donald Trump! Sense at last and freedom from the religion of Climate Scientology.
In Australia we have gone from the cheapest electricity in the world to the most expensive and we need to ask how it was done by our governments and how exactly are we better off? We are being ripped off.
Our State Premier Daniel Andrews just said we will be $1000 a year better off with solar panels, but who pays for them? The absurdity is that he is justifying this ripoff at the world’s highest electricity prices. The more we go solar, the more we pay for electricity and manufacturing shuts down. Such deceit should be criminal.
Then Green jobs? What utter nonsense! In Andrew’s socialist world, his workers’ paradise, everyone works for the government and with electricity from diesel engines. Now how does that make sense? It’s all lies.
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Chart of the day: Something has gone terribly wrong with electricity prices
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-18/electricity-price-rises-chart-of-the-day/9985300
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Joshua Byrd is on shaky ground asking such a dumb question. Everyone else at their ABC knows it is lack of “policy certainty” that is increasing electricity prices. How dare this dimwit journo point out that the only time prices reduced was when the carbon tax was repealed. I see a limited future for Joshua at their ABC.
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Super-fun green job: Imagine taking a long squeegee and cleaning off solar panels, by hand, 40 hours a week for a few years.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48596775
UN Climate Change Annual Report Demonstrates Growing Climate Action
https://unfccc.int/news/un-climate-change-annual-report-demonstrates-growing-climate-action
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An expert is quoted as warning of imminent particulate pollution.
No doubt this person is an “Emeritus” or something and the only thing to come from this “prediction” is the further outing of some occupants of modern university life.
These “predictors”, sorry, that should be, Emeritus Predictors, are giving us a dismal image of modern universities.
Maybe these confused Emeriti can be given a mop and bucket of warm soapy water with which to clean the Hallowed Halls of Academia.
KK
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Ermm; has no one heard of electrostatic dust precipitators? They are specifically designed to remove fine particles from the emission stream. I thought they were mandatory on large commercial flues years ago but if I am mistaken, they could be made a mandatory addition. Gaseous combustion products such as mercury are another matter but the claim is the dust is the issue not the volatiles.
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On the subject of particulate pollution, remember how there was a Californian study that forced particulate filters to be fitted to all new diesel vheicles?
Well the lead “scientist” for the study purchased his statistics doctorate from a diploma mill. The California Air Resources Board is right up (or rather down) there with the IPCC when it comes to scientific integrity.
https://www.overdriveonline.com/roundup-the-wsj-again-carb-rule-a-scam-a-night-on-the-pacific-in-cali/
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/16/another-skeptical-university-professor-fired-related-to-carbs-pm2-5-air-pollution-regulation-scandal/
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Ninety nine point nine percent of what comes out of the stack is water and CO2 in US plants burning coal. There are no dirty plants left. Coal regulations on strip mining forced the restoration of the area before closing down operations. Today you can pass by those old mines and not know you did so. Operating mines are required to stabilize and manage waste. Coal energy is clean, cheap energy. The real goal of the Socialists (polite term) is to take abundant electricity away from the cattle they think need herding so they can make them dependent on the government for their needs and thus control them. More Americans are waking up to what the Democrat Socialists are trying to do everyday and the lies from them get more ridiculous everyday. Sometimes you have to laugh.
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Want to bet that doesn’t have Facebook problems like this?
“Facebook is full of it – 5 hours after pro-Trump post, counters are locked at 1!”
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/06/facebook-is-full-of-it-5-hours-after-pro-trump-post-counters-are-locked-at-1.html
And around that area
“A few facts on Trump”
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/06/a-few-facts-on-trump.html
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The green blob holds tightly to imaginary risk, exaggerate possible risks out of all proportion, and completely ignore the overwhelming benefits of cheap reliable electricity and the technological civilization it sustains. Then they are perplexed that we don’t believe them even after their predictions of catastrophe have failed to happen to any measurable extent for 40+ years.
Someone is stupid beyond belief but it isn’t us. That is unless we begin to believe them and follow their lead.
I can hear it now.: Wannabe green blob member: “But…but…maw, all the other kids are doing it!” Maw: “No they are not but if they were, that is no reason to do something that stupid. Now go clean up the mess in your room, wash up for dinner, and be ready to eat by 7pm or go without.
I know, I am an old fossil but this fossil came from a world that made the world you are living in. I did my part. What have you done for it? Bitch, moan, and complain about having to earn your keep. Suck it up! That is the way things are. You are alive because others did the work to make it happen. Now shut up and start doing your part of the work or go suck rocks for dinner.”
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This will send the NWO lunatics into overdrive now…..watch the new “whatever it takes to get rid of Trump” dirty tricks campaign ramp up more.
OT – One concern was that recently, the pentagon cyber division is runibg cyber ops against the russians power grid….
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/06/us-attacks-russias-power-grid-as-warning-to-putin-nyt-says/
Interestingly, Trump has been kept out of the loop on this, possibly deliberately as part of an going soft coup. Is Donald actually in charge of his own military still? If russia did the same to the US, it would be considered an act of war….
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Attempting to eliminate the dollar USD as a global reserve currency, as Russia has been increasingly trying to do ever since late 2008 is also an effective ‘act of war’. In fact Xi and Putin released a joint media propaganda story just yesterday proposing to do exactly that via offering an alternate “basket of trading currencies”. But in fact that’s little different to what they’ve been trying to do since the floundered BRICS economic development-block strategy was put forward. BRICS went to BRIC, then to BRI, then to RI, and the ‘I’ which was once India has morphed into Iran, but Iran just got severely screwed over by Russia during last year’s Caspian Sea resources rights agreement with Moscow.
So it’s now just ‘R’. But Xi wants to make it ‘CR’, because USA is actually pursuing its own vital interests once again. How dare they!
So not really surprised the US wants an economic stick to hold over Russia.
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The history of the West and its intervention in Russian affairs are many. I always have been an opponent of communist Russia and the Soviet Union generally, but I think once again the same old reasons pop up to attack this country.Maybe because it holds a slight advantage in nuclear delivery. Its GDP and standard of living generally are poor.
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When in doubt, panic.
UN IPCC
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Inter Planetary Council of Climate Clowns
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NY already gets a lot of juice from hydro — Niagara and Quebec. But it is a relatively big state as east states go, so most of its emissions are from CARS. That is people. That is voters. This will be fun to watch.
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No problem, ban internal combustion engines and force people to buy and drive electric vehicles.
sarc
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You mean, force the survivors …
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The joke is that those States most inclined to the Democrats (California, NY etc.) will rush into this trap, and make life expensive and difficult for those who reside there.
As jobs leave, and people do as well, the remaining Democrats can ‘enjoy’ the delights of paying for their virtue signalling. A blackout during a blizzard might not be that much fun.
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Already many businesses are leaving Californiastan and setting up in free market places like Texas.
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Just remember how well “Don’t Californicate Colorado” went while you are exporting Californians – they don’t seem to learn to leave their baggage behind
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Well the last time I read about international competitiveness, Australian Financial Review a couple of years ago before President Donald Trump took office, based on the total cost of employing skilled labour, that is all operating costs of a business including wages but not only wages, in Australia was A$600/day figueres rounded off.
In the USA A$400/day and in India A$200/day.
Since the Whitlam Labour Government signed the UN Lima Agreement for developed countries to give way to developing countries on manufacturing industry Australia has lost many manufacturing businesses. Add the union biased industrial relations legislation (emphasis on unFair Work Australia), the increasing expenses on business to pay for government red and green tape regulations compliance costs, company tax rate at the high end globally, and much more, the competitiveness of Australia has been in decline.
Add energy costs rising sharply over the past decade or so, and electricity and gas supply issues, is it any wonder that the Australian economy has been well below the long term average of 3.5 per cent GDP growth a year?
However, with the natural resources here, Australia should be a business centre rival for Texas.
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You don’t understand. This is a brilliant strategy by the Democrats.
1) Wreck your economy with dumb left policy.
2) Your standard middle class resident Democrat voter moves to another state.
3) The newly occupied state turns Democrat as the refugees continue to vote for the same policies that destroyed their home state.
4) Replace the lost middle class in the original state with an underclass of refugees from south America, Africa, just about anywhere where education is close to zero.
5) Make existing, or once having existed, a qualification to vote.
Hey presto. Democrat Nirvana.
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Back in the last century I was taught that one of the main problems in Latin America and the second and third world in general, was there was no middle class. It was a small population of elites and a large population of serfs. Ironically, “progressive” policies exacerbate these problems and cause regression of the society.
That was before Venezuela became the hell hole it has become. There is a lesson . Kalifornia elites think that their state can avoid such a calamity. But states are not countries who can run on borrowed money forever. Reality bites.
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The particulate hazard is just another US EPA scam basrd as it is on decidedly dodgy science including illegal human experiments that failed to show an effect.
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So, no matter what the adverse impacts are, as long as it’s cheap it’s good? We should do the same here, remove the EPA, put lead back in petrol and paint. Bring on the chlorine chicken, it’s way cheaper, and is America’s donation to food longevity. I’m looking forward therefore for some nice acid rain to clean my solar panels. /sarc off
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After that you go off track and topic,Peter.
Assuming that the first part of your statement was not meant to be sarcastic, can you quantify such adverse effects, from coal powered electricity generation, here in Australia?
Cheaper is definitely better if other factors are the same. Jo actually mentioned adverse effects of more expensive electricity above. I think you find it hard to read her headline articles to the end before reacting!
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Peter Fitzroy:
The peak year for lead use in paint was 1928.
Technology has passed you bye.
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“the adverse impacts are”
Basically ZERO adverse impacts from coal, stop fantasising.
MASSIVE positive impacts.
Coal power holds society together, it allows society and commerce to function.
NOTHING in society would be built or function without it.
You are mindlessly yapping, yet again
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Hey Fitzy, remember when we discussed this very topic concerning Eraring Power Station a little over a week ago? Obviously not. You’re like a broken record. What does it take for a fact to penetrate your fantasy world? You came up with some classic references back then to support your case on coal power pollution effects including one from . . . . . . . Fishing World magazine no less.
Since you’ve gone O/T with your chlorinated chook, allow me to reciprocate. It was used as one reason against Brexit where there would be a flood of “poisoned” US chicken into the UK if there was a WTO Brexit. It was pointed out that the EU with its much-vaunted food safety standards has had more major food safety scandals in recent years than the US could muster.
• tens of millions of Dutch and Belgian eggs contaminated with pesticide were knowingly sold throughout the EU for a couple of months before they were caught in the act
• millions of head of poultry had to be disposed of
• dodgy European pork continues to cause the majority of 60,000 cases of Hepatitis E in Britain per year
• EU horse meat burgers sold as beef in the UK
The EU list goes on.
I do hope you haven’t drunk any chlorinated drinking water or you’re a dead man. Don’t eat pre-packaged salad either, because guess what, it’s chlorinated too which tends to reduce the Salmonella and E. coli counts and consequently the incidence of Bali Belly.
Don’t ever eat broccoli either — it’s a natural source of banned Methyl Bromide, the quarantine fumigant. For the same reason, don’t ever swim at the beach — MB concentrates in near-coastal waters too, where most of it is created by natural processes. You’ve been swallowing and dipping yourself in a deadly chemical. GASP!
And we’re still waiting with baited breath for you to answer the question of who pays for the cleanup bill for the wind monstrosities and the solar panels. Is that crickets I hear??
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baited = bated
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I’ll put on a fish bbq as I can get the fish and shellfish from lake macquarie for half price. If you had read the Fishing World article, you would have seen the link to this. Saying that coal is safe, even though it needs pollution control measures, does not pass the pub test.
None of you have challenged the the main point which is that standards for clean air, water, food, OH&S are there for a reason. Those standards add to the cost – and as the cost (not the value) is your only metric, as it is, why not remove them all, put children into Australian mines, get rid of medicare, and free education, they are costs as well. Obviously we can outsource policing, infrastructure building and management as those are costs. Finally why not hire mercenaries for our armed forces.
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Evidence free, zero-substance rhetoric again, PF !
Based on child-minded supposition and posturing…
You do know that coal come from wood, don’t you.?
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Reminds me of that Element Boron which has become extremely plentiful in information transmission circles in recent years.
It combines the useful attributes needed by those operating in the difficult area of spreading misinformation via online sites.
The B is thought to represent Boring and the remnant, oron signifies the fact that the “presenter” believes that he/she/it is putting something over on the other contributors to the blog. Hardly, you would need some intelligence to even begin trying that.
Boron detectors attached to this blog have revealed increased levels of that Element over the last 6 months and the fact that many contributors find high levels of Boron and dislike it is illustrated by the fact that one recent Boronic comment received 43 red ticks.
KK
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“Saying that coal is safe, even though it needs pollution control measures, does not pass the pub test. “
What a bizarre statement !!
And then to try to conflate pollution controls with child-labour.
You really do have a very twisted mind, PF. !
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It appears to be coal ash causing the pollution, don’t eat the mud crabs.
https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5946391/dont-eat-the-mud-crabs-report-warns-of-lake-macquarie-pollution/
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Following Mr Fitzroy’s line of logic:
Saying that electricity is safe, even though it requires insulation, doesn’t pass the pub test.
Saying that cars are safe to drive, even though they require a steering wheel and brakes, doesn’t pass the pub test.
Ad infinitum.
If the GREENS let us build new, more efficient coal power stations, which are inevitably cleaner, instead of propping up clunkers like Liddell, there would be nothing to whinge about.
Saying that wind turbines are clean and green and have no health impacts doesn’t pass any test.
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🙂 🙂
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And I’ll eat that fish and all the fish you can catch there. Yeah, and that link you just provided doesn’t occur anywhere in the Fishing mag which I did bother to read and which has 2 links, both to PFAS studies, so nice try there. If you had the link back then why wouldn’t you link to it directly rather than link to a fishing magazine instead? Very fishy.
I’m still digesting the new material, but I note that the 3 HCEC authors are green activists who chain themselves to trains etc so I will be reading it with a sceptical eye. Paul Winn wants to shut down power stations; Georgina Woods is as rabid as they come and wants to shut down the entire coal industry. With an agenda like that you can see how I might treat their field sampling and their report with due scepticism.
Then they put out junk like this:
“The Hunter Community Environment Centre is preparing to host a think-group on the effects of climate change on minority groups, in particular queer or LGBT+ communities. Join in the discussion and contribute to this important research in an emerging field.”
HCEC is also holding a Winter Solstice party on the night of June 22nd, so feel free to dress up — or undress — as your favourite ancient pagan and join the fun. NB coal will NOT be burnt on the bonfire.
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Yes Peter, the standards are there for a reason. And, absent hysteria and “models”, they work rather well. I live within sight of a coal fired power plant. I have the privilege of having been able to live in the same home for 38 years (I rather like it). When I moved in, on a few bad days, everything in the neighborhood would be covered in dust. On a few days the air would smell bad. It was the power plant. But we are on the coast, with constant breezes, and tolerated the risk…but complained through channels. There have been at least 18 construction projects. There is no more dust. There is no more smell, There are virtually no particulates and, in fact, with the last project this old existing plant now meets the standards for new construction. It is fueled quite efficiently. The company owns a coal mine, and runs a 100 car unit train in a long loop to and from the mine on a continuing basis. Having a single grade fuel allows optimization of both combustion and anti-pollution. But hysteria is intruding.
AN accompanying solar field had to be built. Attempts to integrate it have been modestly successful. The solar experiment only raised our costs a small amount, possibly because the company wrote it off as advertising when the useage proved marginal —
in an air conditioning climate it at least produced power most days at peak load.
Coal legislation forced an expensive plan for dual fuel use with LNG conversion. If this is required our rates will go up considerably–duplicate capital cost rather than operations.
It is still not clear whether the company can await the normal life cycle end, or will have to build early. The solar experiment having failed economically in spite of optimum conditions, there won’t like be more, especilly after the damage due tot he most recent hurricane.
So we have here, on the one hand, 38 years of consistent progress with some realistic testing and evaluation of new ideas;
And we have on the other hand, proposals to throw out the entire economy because some models say we are gonna die in 12 years.
“The standards are there for a reason” and our collective experience with them stands up well to real world evaluation of the outcomes.
Nothing about “the standards” prohibit the low carbon nirvana envisoned by some. Nothing about the market for power prohibits
a jurisdiction from doing its grid with alternatives. Everything about our system says they if they were cost effective the regulators in other state would take note and demand similar cost efficiency. Everything about our system says if the off-grid pioneers were making headway we’d know it. We do actually. Highly appropriate “alternative energy” is creeping into our lives.
I don’t know if it is low carbon. But a solar cell keeps my boat and airplane batteries topped up. My exterior lighting also has a cell. So does my hurricaen emergency radio. But I also have a couple of weeks generator fuel, because, in extremis, I’m gonna want to run the frig, and will likely need some power tools. The buoy at the end of the channel has a solar cell. The emergency phones on the interstate have one. The car chargers at the Manatee viewing center are solar powered (and always available).
Useful standards evolve. Ideologues believe in revolution. Revolutions are terrifying, and net destructive. The market is fully capable of rapid acceptance of useful, cost effective technologies. Even us old Luddites have cell phones, don’t ya know, and no mandates & minimum subsidies were required.
Since standards evolve pretty well, it hardly seems necessary to throw them out for a whole new set, regardless of what the models say.
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Funny how Richard mentions that he’s lived within sight of this operational coal fired plant for 38 years.
“I’ve been living near this operational wind plant for 38 years.” ….. said no one ever.
Tony.
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The pulsing would kill you.
But that’s not the bad news.
The bad news is that before you die you would be feeling constantly sick, sleepless and nauseous for about 5 years before the final relief comes.
Feter PitzRoy is the poster boy for Extreme Climate Crankism.
KK
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“I’ll put on a fish bbq as I can get the fish and shellfish from lake macquarie for half price. ”
You agree then that price is a big factor in your choice of products.
But you don’t believe that cheap electricity should be available.
BTW; Lead in paint is only dangerous if you lick the paint, otherwise it helped reduce oxidation (deterioration) of the paint.
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TonyfromOz @ #11.4.2.4.1 said:
… and he’s still alive, presumably well — not sprouting cancers and growths every where. The operational electrostatic precipitators fitted to the operational plant’s operational exhaust stacks must be still be doing a good job, in a word: operational.
I find it interesting to see and hear activists ranting on about all the `toxic substances’ in coal plant’s exhausts and absolutely nothing about what quantities are actually expelled into the atmosphere. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch. We can infer from that, that the plants are being properly run and human exposure to the problem material(s) is well inside natural limits.
Yes, there’s mercury in coal. We don’t hear about increasing Minimata Disease cases around the world, let alone a MD epidemic, — probably because there isn’t any. Maybe the mercury is knocked out before it can do any harm, along with all the various sized particles? As it should be …
Rants without hard evidence are worthless propaganda.
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” “A jerk on one end of the line, waiting for a jerk on the other”. Such is one of the classic folk definitions of fishing”.
Robert Hughes, “A Jerk On One End: reflections of a mediocre fisherman”.
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“the adverse impacts are”
Basically ZERO adverse impacts from coal, stop fantasising.
MASSIVE positive impacts.
Coal power holds society together, it allows society and commerce to function.
NOTHING in society would be built or function without it.
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Your feeble attempt to conflate with proven problems, really is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Its childish, and really quite pathetic.
But its all you have.
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SFAIRP.
If you don’t know what that means then you have clearly not professionally been involved in risk analysis.
In real terms it means that when you hear some panic merchant claim that ‘we can’t afford to take the risk’, you can correct reply ‘yes, we can actually’.
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So you are admitting that there are risks?
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NO, there is no evidence of risks if things are done properly.
You know that, because you are totally incapable of producing any evidence.
Stop your childish attempts at trolling.
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Coal fired power generation has been around for around 120 years PF ….. We have had plenty of time to evaluate the risks, and mitigate any that have emerged in so far as is reasonably possible.
And we have had immeasurable benefits…..What a wonderful and enduring invention it is.
If there are risks, please tell us what they are, and back them up with some evidence.
No sane person (or anyone with an IQ above room temperature) could possibly argue that the risks of coal fired generation outweigh the benefits.
Back in your box PF…..Another straw argument from a straw man.
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There are risks in life FP and one of them is that one day your life will be influenced negatively by a Boron.
KK
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‘So, no matter what the adverse impacts are ….’
No adverse impacts, cheap reliable energy will prolong lives around the world.
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yep, and if we remove the pollution controls they will be cheaper
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Yawn, What a pointless, empty comment from you PF.!
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PF, alias DRONGO, strikes again.
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Arguing extremes is a logical fallacy. Getting rid of bad regulations doesn’t force you to get rid of good regulations, anymore than getting rid of corrupt police officers means and getting rid of all police officers.
And US chicken is safer than EU chicken.
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Good; for you, a lot of the posts on this site exhibit that characteristic, I’m following the same journalistic tradition, just form another prospective
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“a lot of the posts on this site exhibit that characteristic”
Yes, and they are all yours.
You want risk.. then consider the risk is Sydney were suddenly without electricity for 2 to 3 days.
I dare you to disconnect for 3 days.. see how you survive.
No access to anything to do with coal.
The house where you live was built using large amounts of coal
The food that is delivered to the supermarket is only there because coal allowed the use of steel to build the transport system.
Stop your pathetic whinging, PF, and get a life, other than child-minded trolling.
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Peter F stated:
Acid rain is not something you want on solar panels. It will etch the glass, causing a dramatic reduction in output.
Poor performance of a wet gas scrubber in a plant with SO2 or SO3 in the gas stream (most power stations) will almost certainly lead to damage claims from owners of cars parked locally (usually employees) and from owners of nearby homes and offices with windows exposed to the fallout. It is not something you would want to occur on solar panels.
The US EPA has promoted any level of CO2 output as pollution, which it is not. CO2 is an essential atmospheric gas and there are no adverse effects while it is in the range 200 to 2000ppm by volume in the atmosphere. Less than 200ppm threatens plant life, meaning all life on Earth, and more than 2000ppm can cause drowsiness in humans making them less productive.
By contrast, atmospheric lead has no beneficial effects for life on Earth. It is a pollutant.
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Too many people must be stupid. There are hundreds of new coal fired power stations being built and will continue to be built for the foreseeable future in many part of the world. Need I say more?
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Deaths from burning coal?
What happened to Environment Protection Agencies and related laws against polluting?
During the 1970s the EPA established in developed comuntries resulted in old technology suburban based coal fired power stations being demolished and new countryside locations, much cleaner burning coal fired power stations built to replace them.
And now technology has improved again.
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Perhaps it would be interesting to compare the stats on the deaths from the Chernobyl accident to that of the deaths reported due to the old coal fired plants. They might highlight the importance of replacing them with new coal fired ones and also with modern nuclear power stations that are much safer than the badly designed Chernobyl one. But of course the left don’t give a damn about lives. All they care about is destroying the West. With “friends” like the left here who needs “enemies” like China and Russia? I’m still waiting for a leader to wake up and declare all those who are pushing the renewables agenda as being like terrorists. They are certainly doing a better job of it at the moment than the traditional terrorists.
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Insane greentard policies will kill far more people than any ‘terror’ events.
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In that case why aren’t they being rounded up and treated accordingly? Oh it’s because they have infiltrated and both major parties so far they have them running scared. It’s really time we have a Trump-like leader here but there doesn’t appear to be one around. Not even a Nigel Farage. Unless we get one we are cactus as time is running out.
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We are not American, Morrison has a pair of steady hands and Donald is a charismatic revolutionary.
Cory has let it be known that he will rejoin the Coalition, now that Talcum is history.
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And insane greentard policies HAVE killed far more people than any nuclear accident events.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/02/20/national/post-quake-illnesses-kill-more-in-fukushima-than-2011-disaster#.WTmK7-Xyu01
https://ourworldindata.org/what-was-the-death-toll-from-chernobyl-and-fukushima
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Care to advise what figures you have for Chernobyl Peter F? Last night I saw an interview with the main doctor responsible for treating the Chernobyl victims, and it would be interesting to compare his figures against yours.
30
Its all stupid. I remember when London had terrible REAL pollution (60s?) and smogs that really killed people, that was all cleaned up. So coal putting out ‘dirty’ particulates is now a thing of the past, China has a strong 2.5pm rule and is making headway to stop real pollution.
Mixing the particulate dirt in the same sentence as CO2 emission is plain dirty tricks, and they know it.
100
Since 1970, PMs in the UK have fallen by 75%. Levels are now three times lower. Yet there has been no discernible effect on health.
30
The US is still digging about a billion tons of coal a year.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_States#/media/File%3AUS_coal_production.png
People who write this junk have no idea what is actually going on.
140
My mistake as that chart ends in 2012. We are down to about 600 million tpy. Sad but still a lot. Like Oz we are still base loading with coal. We tend to build power plants in booms, the last being around 2000 when we built 200 gig of gas, no coal. So of course we are using a lot of gas.
130
Now US is on a gas punch-up with Russia over Nordstream2, insane.
20
And while we’re on the subject of domestic coal consumption…
No country has more to lose from the War on Coal than test dummy Australia. Because no country has more to gain from the extension, upgrading and modernisation of coal power than stupendously coal-rich Australia.
Our coal will be mined and consumed no matter what. Gupta the Green is mining and consuming our coal even as he wags the finger against coal. The tiniest downward blip in coal exports or export price will be reported as the End of Coal…while the mining and consumption of Australian coal just goes on.
So the War on Coal is not about the mining and consumption of coal and it is certainly not about “carbon”. It’s about our status as globalist test dummy and import-slurping mug. You think the owl-burners and white elephant breeders care two hoots about “carbon” as they look down from their Gulfstreams? Gimme a break.
210
US Govt agencies model exposure limits and risk models politically as well as per legally required protocols.
The most egregious of them is the LNT or Linear No Threshold models. Essentially, they say that even if a person is Never exposed to something, there remains a finite risk of death. Their models do not pass through the graph origin even if the evidence shows zero effect at some non zero exposure.
Thus, if there is a 1 in a million chance of dying from 1 chemical even if you never are exposed to it, in, let’s say cigarette smoke ( could be rabbit snot, but you get the idea), and if there are 1000 chemicals in that smoke, then there is a chance of 1 in 1000 of dying from the smoke even if you are never exposed to it. That’s how the LNT model works. and it is “Official” Science. Laws get based upon this analysis.
So, if you take power plant emissions and identify all possible pollutants, then sum up the zero exposure LNT risks, then weight the results “scientifically”, you can “prove” that XX number of people will “die” even if they are never exposed. Then, take that result, linearize it, and suppose that 1% of the emissions actually escape from leaks in the pollution control equipment, and surprise, you have a phenomenal risk. Figures Lie and Liars Figure.
Another set of “tests” are similarly unbelievable. The Rabbit test and the Beagle test.
In the Rabbit test, FDA requires for an enormous amount of things, you MUST put the product into the eyes of Rabbits. If there’s no harm, then all to the good. But lets say it is something like Nail Polish. You know it will blind the Rabbit, but you legally have to do the test anyway to get Govt approval. After the test, you must label the Nail Polish as “an eye irritant”. Stupid, but that’s how it works.
In the Beagle test for cardiac sensitization for fire suppressants and refrigerants (Halons, CFCs, HCFCs, HFCs, HFEs, PFCs, etc) , you first take a healthy beagle because their hearts function very similarly to a human heart. Then, you sample their blood to get their “rest level” adrenaline levels. Then, you use a some means to frighten them (gunshot noise, electric shock,etc) to “stimulate” them and get their “excited level” adrenaline content. Then, you inject 10 Times the difference into the beagle because it plots well on Log Log paper. If it survives initially, you place a hood over its head and flow in the refrigerant or fire suppression gas up to the concentration proposed in your test protocol. If the dog dies, you start over again with a new dog at a lower concentration. If it survives, you may choose to repeat the experiment at a higher level, or end the test series if the concentration is sufficient for the application in mind. The surviving dogs are kept for the rest of their lives in cages because they cannot be used for any other tests for anyone else but you. You own the dog. And you paid USD 50,000 each for them in 1994 when I had the pleasure of this event. This is a required EPA test for any refrigerant or fire suppression agent.
See: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/el/fire_research/R0000282.pdf
So, you might well gather that some of these test models and methods are kind of stupid, can be politicized, and are often quite inhumane, but they are the legal basis of Official Approvals and Legislation.
I was involved in this stuff for 7 years with the USAF and have a little bit of experience with it.
So, when someone says the EPA has issued a new Rule or Regulation based on “tests” and “models”, my BS detector goes off scale immediately. There is a high probability the Rule or Regulation was decided in advance and then the tests and models were manipulated to justify the intended outcome. Not an uncommon thing. When there is a lot of money or power involved in the outcome, imagine the forces at work.
120
My point in all of this is to illustrate that one may Mandate a test protocol that is known in advance to prove or disprove any given situation. The question ought be “is it relevant, reasonable and applicable” to the situation. I’m not saying there ought not be any tests or analysis. But those tests and analyses ought be rational, necessary, and unimpeachable, before credence or legal weight is given to them.
To quote Dr. Thomas Sowell: “Anything can succeed or fail based upon irrelevant standards”.
So when someone says “Power Plant emissions cause XXX deaths per year”, my first question is “Show me the test protocol and demonstrate its applicability”, the second question is “Name them”.
80
True what they do is produce unrelated or very weakly correlated medical reports on lung diseases and similar with, as you say, no proof of causation.
60
I think Aesop, if he were still around, would have put it more succinctly, thus,
the bigger the mouth, the smaller the brain.
70
Or somewhat more classically
“Vehemence and veracity are seldom synonymous”
(This was a UK paper’s summation of Ralph Nader’s first speaking tour of UK)
30
Reminds me of the old one about the lethal nature of water.
“Proof” established by dropping animals from 25 metres onto a concrete slab covered with 25, 15, 5 and 1mm of water. Any injuries and deaths lead to the conclusion that water is lethal in any amount.
100
Truly shocking. Someone should do something about this stuff. Wink.
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
50
Shocking. Truly so. I’ll need a bourbon and Water to help offset the anxiety of this dreadful situation.
61
I’ll need a bourbon and Water
no, no, no… Leave out that H2O.. its dangerous stuff !
and deaths
Just fully immerse one of those pigs in this awful substance for 5-10 minutes.
See what affect it has ! DEADLY stuff
70
The Australian environment editor Graham Lloyd making some subtle points
Lloyd is pointing out the blatant manipulation, the control of language. Global Warming is dead. Long live the new Climate Emergency!
However there is another point in the Bonn meeting which Lloyd does not make. The biggest manufacturer by far of giant windmills is Germany. Even the Chinese companies are German joint ventures. The trillions being spent on German windmills are drying up.
This ‘meeting’ is a direct marketing effort by the Wind Industry seeking to bully countries into buying more German windmills. Who needs a reason? The Climate Emergency.
140
Now did our Hebridean Son say that the re-opening of the old coal plants should continue as before (and) causing Soot pollution, OR may he suggest that they should continue whilst best endeavours to curb Particle / soot emissions? ie clean up their act. WIN win and another feather in the MAGA Cap.
60
“One academic analysis estimates that over a decade the repeal could lead to 36,000 deaths”
That is 0.00639% of deaths in the USA over the next decade or to put it another way 8.5 times the number of unsolved murders in Chicago.
Then you have Baltimore, Boston, St Louis etc.
100
read all, tho padded with pro-wind stuff:
19 Jun: SMH: Can wind turbines disturb sleep? Research finds pulsing audible in homes up to 3.5km away
By Nicole Hasham
A world-first Australian study has found that pulsing wind farm noise is sometimes audible inside a home up to 3.5 kilometres from a turbine, in findings likely to buoy those opposed to the low-emissions technology…
However the first results from ongoing Flinders University research into turbine noise and sleep found that low-frequency pulsing from a South Australian wind farm was audible about 16 per cent of the time inside homes up to 3.5 kilometres from a turbine, including 22 per cent of the time at night. The noise was audible 24 per cent of the time outside the homes…
The data was recently analysed and the results published online last month in the Journal of Sound and Vibration. The work was funded by the Australian Research Council…
Flinders University sleep and respiratory physiologist Peter Catcheside, who is heading the NHMRC research, said his team had approached four wind farm operators to request data to aid their studies.
“Unfortunately they have either not responded or declined with concerns about commercial sensitivity issues,” he said…
Australian Wind Alliance national co-ordinator Andrew Bray said wind farms were “a clean and safe way of generating electricity and this report hasn’t found anything to challenge this”.
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/sustainability/can-wind-turbines-disturb-sleep-research-finds-pulsing-audible-in-homes-up-to-3-5km-away-20190617-p51yik.html
19 Jun: Flinders Uni: Wind farm noise recorded almost 9km away
The research team is now seeking people from wind farm areas who feel they are either impacted or not impacted by wind farm noise, people with traffic noise related sleep problems and people from quiet rural areas willing to travel and participate in the Adelaide based laboratory study.
Anyone interested in participating can contact LINK
https://news.flinders.edu.au/blog/2019/06/19/wind-farm-noise-recorded-almost-9km-away/
70
16 Jun: AFR: Bloomberg: UBS puts economist on leave after pork comments offend China
by Patrick Winters and Benjamin Robertson
UBS Group AG put global chief economist Paul Donovan on leave as it struggles to contain the fallout from his remarks on pork in China that sparked outrage in the country.
The Swiss bank is reviewing the matter and evaluating whether more steps need to be taken, a spokesman said by email. Shares of the world’s biggest wealth manager fell for a second day as Mr Donovan’s comments continued to reverberate through China, a key market for its plans to attract more money from rich Asians.
A frequent commentator in financial media, Mr Donovan had set off a furor during a discussion on Chinese consumer prices, which had risen because sick pigs had driven up pork costs…
“I made a mistake and I unwittingly used hugely culturally insensitive language,” Mr Donovan said in a Bloomberg TV interview with Francine Lacqua on Thursday, reiterating that his remarks were not intended to offend. “I apologise publicly for that.”…READ ON
https://www.afr.com/business/banking-and-finance/investment-banking/ubs-puts-economist-on-leave-after-pork-comments-offend-china-20190616-p51y7n
19 Jun: AFR: Why UBS shouldn’t have caved to China
by Peter Blair
(Peter Blair is the pseudonym for a writer and corporate public relations consultant. He has advised some of the world’s most recognisable companies and consumer brands. He currently lives and works throughout Greater China)
In response to the furore, UBS published an apology and announced it was placing Donovan on a leave of absence pending further review. Many of his colleagues – if comments left under a recent Financial Times article are anything to go by – were not happy with this decision. But it was all too typical of the way firms have started to treat politically ferocious demands from the Chinese public – and government…
UBS’s apology and its unsentimental sidelining of Donovan might seem surprisingly craven to some, but the pattern will be familiar to anyone who has followed the reputational roller-coaster of multinational companies accused of “hurting the feelings of the Chinese people” that has become particularly common in recent years…
In January 2018, China demanded apologies from a number of international companies, including Zara, Marriott, Qantas, and Delta Air Lines, for listing Taiwan and Hong Kong as “countries” on their websites. All companies quickly apologised to China and removed any offending references…
https://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/why-ubs-shouldn-t-have-caved-to-china-20190618-p51ys8
19 Jun: Fox Business: Trump says US helped ‘rebuild’ China: ‘They took us for suckers’
By Kathleen Joyce; Fox Business’ Katherine Lam and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
President Trump kicked off his rally Tuesday night at the Amway Center in Orlando, Fla., announcing he was formally running for re-election in 2020 and touching on a number of subjects including trade deals and the tariffs imposed on China…
“I spoke to President Xi, terrific president, great leader of China. I spoke to him this morning at length and we’ll see what happens. But we’re either going to have a good deal and a fair deal or we’re not going to have a deal at all and that’s OK, too.”…
The president told supporters the U.S. helped rebuild China and “they took us for suckers, and that includes (former President Barack) Obama and (former Vice President Joe) Biden.”
Trump said he was fighting for them and would continue to do so.
“I have news for Democrats who want to return us to the bitter failures and betrayals of the past: We are not going back,” he said to a rowdy crowd…
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-us-rebuild-china
60
Joanne write this in her text:
Yeah, right!
I’d like to see them try to run Manhattan on renewables.
Tony.
210
Me too. That cesspool of a city would end up dead.
120
Perhaps that is a good thing?
70
The UN (building) would run out of power..now THAT would be a good thing!
180
Absolutely!
70
Might not make much difference to their real work output. Even better that all their housing and swish waterholes would too so they would have to notice the effect of their “remedies”. first hand
30
What work output?
30
That’s what I meant. Not many of us would feel sorry see NY have its lights and everything else turned off. Same with LA.
90
Not sure how long ago you visited NY Peter, but when I was there a couple of years ago I felt safer in Times Square and other areas than I would be walking in Perth at night. Loved the place.
11
“the state would enact measures to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, like mass tree-planting and the restoration of wetlands.”
What is very wrong about this is the idea that CO2 levels are not natural.
CO2 levels are perfectly natural and reflect ocean temperature. This has been demonstrated by at least 350,000 windmills which have had no effect on on CO2 levels. So why are we still building them?
CO2 comes from the ocean. Warm the ocean surface even slightly and CO2 goes up. 98% of all CO2 is dissolved in the ocean. Everyone in the IPCC knows that.
Rather Al Gore and the IPCC would have us believe against all science that CO2 is somehow heating the oceans. How exactly?
They also believe that as the ocean gets warmer, CO2 goes back into the ocean and they call this ocean acidification. A double lie as no ocean is acid and CO2 comes out. The flat beer/champagne/soda effect. Climate Science is a science free zone.
110
In other words the left want to reduce/remove CO2 from our atmosphere as much as possible. The fools don’t realise with much less CO2 life on this planet would die. What makes them doubly foolish is the world as a whole is building hundreds more coal fired power stations. So what we do or don’t do with our coal fired power stations will make as much difference to the climate as what would happen if a star millions of light-years away suddenly exploded (zero impact for those of the left who don’t have the intelligence to figure it out).
90
Perhaps the left realise perfectly well that less CO2 means less food and more starvation. That is indeed sinister (in every sense).
110
The idea of ANY removal of CO2 is a non science idea. Impossible anyway. Its all polit-speak to justify trillions on scam schemes to make money from the climate gravy train.
100
So, they agree that CO2 is plant food after all?
80
Not necessarily. They see trees as removing pollution. The mystery of botany, biochemistry, photsynthesis is beyond politicians and not to be mentioned by people who know how it works. There is no money in photosynthesis and a lot of money in stopping Climate Catastrophes, now that humans control the planet.
70
“to get 70 percent of its electricity from renewable sources by 2030”
And what percentage of those “renewables” would actually be in New York !!
A bit like Canberra saying its aiming at 100% renewables..
No big wind farms within the ACT…
The ones outside must be going to do a HUGE job, supplying to everywhere…
I wonder how many times each wind farm gets counted. 😉
Yet the ones near Bungendore rarely turn.
80
That is Capital Hill Wind Farm near Bungendore, constructed the story was at the time to offset electricity grid demand from the Sydney Kurnell Desalination Plant, Infigen Energy own it. They have a shareholder who has been described as “born lucky”. Related to the Federal Minister for Water in those days.
Capital Hill covers 15,000 acres of land where 67 wind turbines are located with nameplate capacity of 140 MW. Capacity Factor 42 MW.
Maybe now many of the wind turbines there are past their useful operating years?
80
Angler’s Cold-Chase ~ 20th June, 2019
At my property, a minimum reading of –10.7° C was recorded; heading north-westwards to Providence Portal, the reading was a frigid –14.1° C, by comparison to Perisher Valley’s –12.0° C and Cooma AP’s –9.1° C; severe frost all around the region, due to very moist air (>95% RH). However, there was a persistent on-and-off breeze during the midnight and foredawn (particularly about Perisher and the upper ranges), thereby halting the temperature from plummeting to its coldest. Minimal wind around here.
Without doubt—it was well and truly cold—but it was also a fizzer due to the interrupting breeze(s).
50
Interested in feedback on my rough thoughts here. Jinan Cao may be able to improve. A bit rusty on the maths
https://t.co/Ca1oQEVdZo
40
Search for ‘Falsification Of
The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects
Within The Frame Of Physics’ , may help.
Climate science diagrams of radiation always call ‘flux’ heat which is is not.
“Rather, the atmospheric greenhouse mechanism is a conjecture, which may be proved or disproved already in concrete engineering thermodynamics [95{97]. Exactly this was done well
many years ago by an expert in this field, namely Alfred Schack, who wrote a classical textbook on this subject [95]. 1972 he showed that the radiative component of heat transfer of
CO2, though relevant at the temperatures in combustion chambers, can be neglected at atmospheric temperatures. The influence of carbonic acid on the Earth’s climates is definitively
unmeasurable [98].”
CO2 – Debunked in 1972!
70
Greenhouse gases cannot “trap” energy. They may only delay the transfer of energy. Either In or Out. But the absorption cross spectrum is narrow. 15 Microns or so. Incoming short wave radiation might be absorbed and re emitted, but afterwards, the outbound radiation is of much longer wavelength and CO2 cannot then play a role.
There is no boundary around the earth that prevents convection as in the glass boundary of a greenhouse. Convection is what global circulation is all about.
GCM models are based upon differential equation models of convection in cells. the cells are sized to a grid that incorporates the earth’s surface. But the information going into the GCM models and cells is not uniformly available. so averages are used to obtain the missing grid information. Sometimes, measurements are thousands of miles between sensors, but the modelers simply average the points of data along their grid to create pseudo data. This is an inherent error because temperatures vary by miles, much more so in thousands of miles. So grid averaging of sensor data as inputs to GCM models covering the earth is nonsense.
Ed Lorenz founded the GCM models. He, himself, said that long term modeling of climate was impossible. He later said it was impossible to model without knowledge of feedbacks. If positive feedbacks, earth would already be toast, if negative, the system is quasi stable and quasi periodic at best. If the differential equations are consistent, then there is no solution to a coupled, non linear, chaotic system that has at best only the hope of quasi periodic states. In other words, the system is very complex and unlikely to be solved on any long term basis. Identical states at different times is unlikely, more likely are analogous states. But analogous states are not periodic solutions, simply similar. Analogous states are not predictable by any forecasting scheme.
See: Deterministic Non Periodic Flow
https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0469%281963%29020%3C0130%3ADNF%3E2.0.CO%3B2
80
The gas itself may absorb energy, but it has to do WORK to heat the surface. if it is colder than the surface OR than lower levels it CANNOT heat a warmer surface!
ALL climate models (appear to) ignore the Sun AFAIK. The coreolis force drives the circulation. That is set by a rotating reference frame set in physics. The rest is totally solar from ALL the solar energy sources, not just heat from solar IR. Solar mass ejections, proton flux and coronal holes that affect the weather through magnetic action cant be predicted.
50
19 Jun: E&E News: Wheeler rolls out carbon rule, girds for lawsuits
by Niina H. Farah, Jean Chemnick and Nick Sobczyk; Reporter Jeremy Dillon contributed
The Trump administration is celebrating its replacement for the Clean Power Plan today as EPA offers a narrow path for power plants to cut greenhouse gas emissions.
Coal miners, members of Congress and leaders of conservative think tanks joined EPA officials at agency headquarters this morning for the rollout of the long-awaited Affordable Clean Energy rule…
Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney called the rule a top priority for President Trump, noting how the president had talked about the rule on the campaign trail.
“This is another example of the president doing exactly what he said he would do when he ran for office,” said Mulvaney.
“This rule regulates carbon emissions at our nation’s power plants in a way that’s consistent with the structure and the intent of the Clean Air Act. In other words, we’re following the law as we continue to improve the quality of our air,” said Deputy Energy Secretary Dan Brouillette.
The ACE rule is already causing Democratic heartburn on Capitol Hill, where Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and members of the Environment and Public Works Committee will make their case at a news conference this afternoon…
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) used a floor speech this morning to rail against the Clean Power Plan and hail a return to the “rule of law” with the Trump administration’s greenhouse gas regulation.
“Just one more win for all Americans who live and work in communities where affordable, homegrown American energy sources like coal still matter a great deal,” he said…
https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060632821
30
19 Jun: SMH: ‘Significant’ coal issues hit power plant, forcing miner to truck fuel
By Peter Hannam
The state’s newest coal-fired power station has endured “significant disruptions” to its fuel supplies from a nearby mine, curtailing its output by almost half, and prompting it to seek increased amounts to be trucked in.
EnergyAustralia’s Mt Piper plant near Lithgow, which supplies as much as 15 per cent of NSW’s electricity, is mostly supplied by Centennial Coal’s nearby Springvale mine. That mine, though, has hit “geological issues”, with the operator extracting coal of lower quality and quantity than expected…
Centennial has asked the Berejiklian government for approval to increase the amount of coal it can truck to the 1400-megawatt power plant from its Clarence Colliery, also near Lithgow…
The NSW Nature Conservation Council said it was “very concerned about the impact of heavy diesel truck movements, mining and coal-fired power on air pollution and the health of residents in Lithgow and surrounding areas”…READ ON
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/sustainability/significant-coal-issues-hit-power-plant-forcing-miner-to-truck-fuel-20190617-p51yjd.htm
50
G’day Pat,
I thought it significant that Peter Hannam managed to write this report without even mentioning “climate change” once. And he admitted that this one power plant (coal fired) supplies that 15% of the state’s needs. But he did omit the comparison with the performance of all the solar stuff in the same state coming in with about 8%, but unreliably and not when most needed.
Could it be a softening of his position? Or that of the SMH management? Dare I hope?
Cheers
Dave B
40
???
19 Jun: AustralianMining: Coal to virtually disappear from 2050 electric power system
by Vanessa Zhou
Coal is forecast to almost completely disappear from Australia’s electricity system by 2050 if governments do not attempt to keep plants online with subsidies, according to the latest economic analysis in the BloombergNEF (BNEF) New Energy Outlook 2019.
Coal-fired capacity is predicted to fall from 25 gigawatts in 2018 (generating 63 per cent of the country’s electricity), to 18 gigawatts in 2030, and just six gigawatts in 2040.
Power stations will instead be powered by ***lower-cost renewables, paired with flexible technologies like batteries, pumped-hydro and gas.
These technologies will ensure the power sector does its part in keeping global temperatures from rising more than two degrees Celsius, at least until 2030.
***Renewables are already the cheapest source of new generation in Australia, and their costs will continue to fall, according to BNEF.
“Australia’s existing fleet of ageing coal plants, which have been the backbone of the electricity sector for years, will be the last coal generators in the country,” BNEF head of Australia Leonard Quong said…READ ON
https://www.australianmining.com.au/news/coal-to-virtually-disappear-from-electric-power-system-in-2050/
40
I didn’t realise there was a country called Australia in Avatar 🙂
40
PeterS, talking of two of the worst films ever – a cowboy/western in space and one about an iceberg and a boat –
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/113577855/james-cameron-is-right-new-zealand-has-a-titanic-agriculture-problem
Millionaire propaganda specialist, Jim-jam Cameron, who has purchased a large farm in the North Island’s Wairarapa (with funds from his Wholly-Weird science-fiction/fantasy movies) now has the audacity to tell us native Hobbitses that “everybody has to change”. As The Who’s Roger Daltry once yelled: Who The F••k Are You!
Puff-piece activism dressed-up as ‘news’ by a Krysta Neve who is “programme coordinator for SAFE For Animals”. Article should’ve had at the top in large letters: WARNING: SPONSORED ADVERTISEMENT MAY CONTAIN NUTS & BS.
40
Oh ye of little faith! Old King Coal will still be here long after you have gone.
60
Another bit of waffle from Bloomberg. Blooming stupid.
60
If this Law is enacted I’ll be amazed! It will be the death nell of manufacturing in NY State. people (read Tax Payers) will leave in droves. Surrounding States will no doubt be cheering them on because they (other States) will obtain the benefits of the NY error.
60
On Monday, Canada ***declared a ‘climate emergency.’ On Tuesday, it approved a pipeline expansion
Washington Post-18 Jun 2019
19 Jun: CBC: House of Commons declares a climate emergency ahead of pipeline decision
Liberal, NDP, Bloc Quebecois and Green MPs all voted in favour of the motion
The House of Commons has passed a ***non-binding motion to declare a national climate emergency in Canada, kicking off a week that will test the Liberals’ promise to balance environmental protection with economic development…
It passed Monday night with 186 votes to 63. According to the House of Commons Procedure and Practice guide, a resolution of the House “is a ***declaration of opinion or purpose; ***it does not require that any action be taken, ***nor is it binding.”…
Despite voting in favour of the motion, NDP MP Peter Julian rose in the House to call it ***”meaningless.”…
***Green Party Leader Elizabeth May took to Twitter to express her disappointment that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer and NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh were not in the House Monday for the vote…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/climate-emergency-motion-1.5179802
30
19 Jun: VancouverSun: First Nations ownership in Trans Mountain poses public relations problem for opponents
‘First Nations ownership would undercut the environmental movement’: UBC prof
by Randy Shore
Ottawa will kick off a series of meetings with interested First Nations starting July 22 in Vancouver, with stops in Victoria, Kamloops and Edmonton. The government is prepared to discuss equity ownership, revenue sharing and royalty agreements with 129 First Nations, according to the department of finance.
Interest from First Nations is considerable.
The Indian Resource Council — which represents more than 130 First Nations with oil and gas resources on their territories — has already consulted with the federal government and led preliminary meetings with First Nations about making a bid for the pipeline…
“First Nations ownership would undercut the environmental movement, because many of the people who oppose the pipeline are likely to support self-determination for First Nations,” said a UBC sociology professor, David Tindall. “That’s going to be big dilemma for the environmental movement and from a public opinion point of view, I think people could question continuing to fight the pipeline in that context.”…READ ON
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/first-nations-ownership-in-trans-mountain-poses-public-relations-problem-for-opponents
19 Jun: TheConversation: How the Trans Mountain green light could benefit First Nations
by Harrie Vredenburg, Professor & Suncor Chair in Strategy & Sustainability, Haskayne School of Business; Research Fellow, School of Public Policy, University of Calgary.
Delbert Wapass, executive chairman of the Project Reconciliation group and former chief of Thunderchild First Nation, co-authored this article.
***READ Disclosure statement
There are several Indigenous groups hoping to purchase an equity interest in Trans Mountain. Project Reconciliation, an Indigenous-led consortium of all Western Canadian First Nations who would like to participate, is proposing to purchase a majority share of the Trans Mountain pipeline and plans to invest 80 per cent of the income earned in an Indigenous sovereign wealth fund. The remaining 20 per cent would be distributed to communities as it is earned.
The federal Liberal government says it will now start meeting officially with Indigenous groups that are interested in buying the project, including Project Reconciliation.
Since mid-2018, Delbert Wapass — a former chief of the Thunderchild First Nation in Saskatchewan — and I have both been involved in Project Reconciliation. We are building an inclusive coalition of First Nations in Western Canada to purchase a 51 per cent stake of the Trans Mountain pipeline and its expansion. All Indigenous communities in British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan have been invited to join.
The $7.6 billion needed to acquire the stake would come from a syndicated bond — essentially a loan. There would be no taxpayer money or upfront costs to First Nations communities…READ ON
http://theconversation.com/how-the-trans-mountain-green-light-could-benefit-first-nations-118864
30
19 Jun: CBC: ‘Thunder snow’ warning after snowfall blankets parts of B.C. highway, western Alberta
Winter-weather warning also in effect for Jasper National Park
With files from Yvette Brend
PIC: A view of Highway 97C at Elkhart, at an elevation of 1,621 metres, on Wednesday morning. The snow was expected to continue for several hours. (DriveBC)
It’s just days before the summer solstice, but snow is still falling in parts of B.C. and western Alberta.
The surprise snowfall on sections of the Okanagan Connector was seen on DriveBC highway cameras on Wednesday morning…
Lisa Erven, meteorologist with Environment Canada: “So, for those travelling on the highways, you could see or experience thunder snow, which is a unique phenomenon, but certainly not out of the question this time of year.”…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/snow-bc-jasper-june-1.5181307
40
PICS: 17 Jun: CBC: Labrador lodge still dealing with deep snow as summer tourism season kicks off
Igloo Lake Lodge has 140 guests booked for summer fishing season
by Jacob Barker
“Even though we’re coming up on the first day of summer next week it’s not really the first day of summer here,” said Igloo Lake Lodge manager Jim Burton.
“Mother Nature has the last say.”…
Lodge workers were greeted by deep piles of snow, which made for lots of extra work to deal with in preparation for the summer fishing season.
Bat boxes were knocked to the ground, trees were snapped in half and propane tanks were buried under the deep snow that still covers the land the lodge’s structures are built on.
PIC: Gillingham and Burton speak with a staff member from high atop the snow pile, which is still extremely high for the month of June…
“I think the guests will be excited about it actually,” lodge owner Craig Gillingham said.
“It’s something you don’t get to see very often, this much snow in June.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/igloo-lake-lodge-deep-snow-1.5176076
50
‘On Monday, Canada ***declared a ‘climate emergency.’ On Tuesday, it approved a pipeline expansion..’ you cant make this stuff up!
Approving a pipeline..hydrocarbons anyone? OH my.
30
More from Fairfax’s stuffed gossip rag: Capital declares cuckoo emergency… thankfully there’s a few dissenters –
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/113563745/wellington-climate-plan-called-preachy-nonsense-and-a-farce-by-councillors
Councillor Nicola Young said the climate plan struck her as “very do as I say, and not do as I do”. Young called the plan “greenwashing”, “lip service” and “preachy”. “I’ll be voting against it because it’s just nonsense,” she said.
The real Canuck emergency crisis is when it keeps snowing in summer causing mountains to turn trans.
30
It isn’t just the co2 issue we have to address;
Old coal plants can and should have their flue gas precipitators upgraded and modernised.
Expensive, but it is common sense on order to minimize particulate discharge.
And such work is good for local the industries as is labour intense requiring welding fabrication and manufacture etc. If this is done then it is one less item for the climate mob to use against coal.
GeoffW
80
We all know that even record snow is simply weather. It must be heat before it is climate.
50
Reply to #28.1.1
40
I always thought that climate traditionally was, the temperature range with seasonal variation, the weather patterns that belong to a certain region.
Where the …. did it ever mean ‘Globull Warming’.
30
Haven’t you seen all the pineapple and banana plantations around Hobart?
They wouldn’t be there were it not for this ghastly climate emergency we are currently experiencing.
30
19 Jun: WeatherNationTV: Summer Snow Headed to the Northern Rockies
by Meteorologist Karissa Klos
A dip in the jet stream, known as a trough, will draw in some unseasonably cool air from Canada. The trough will also provide energy for storms. For the high plains and north central U.S., this will aid in a chance of severe weather. For the high country of the northern Rockies, it will mean a chance at summer snow…
Winds will increase across the west, before rain and snow build from the Canadian border into Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho…
Most of the snow will end on Friday, with the trough finally moving east into Saturday. However, another trough looks to target the northwest next week. In fact, the Climate Prediction Center has most of the west maintaining below average temperatures through the 28th…
https://www.weathernationtv.com/news/summer-snow-headed-to-the-northern-rockies/
Showers, icy temperatures for Melbourne with snow in the Victorian Alps
Herald Sun-18 Jun 2019
20 Jun: ABC: Himalayas environment change ‘mind-boggling’, leading scientist says
The World By Ian Burrows and Yvonne Yong
John All is not your ordinary scientist…
Dr All and his team scale the highest peaks on Earth to survey the environment there.
In fact, his team now has the record, at 8,500 metres, for the highest point a snow sample has ever been collected.
He has just returned from his latest expedition to the Himalayas and said there was a “mind-boggling magnitude of change” compared to the last time he gathered similar data there 10 years ago.
“The glaciers on Mount Everest are melting so much more quickly than we expected,” Dr All told The World, pointing out that in some Himalayan areas he visited the temperature “was 20 degrees Fahrenheit warmer”…
He said high up in the mountains huge amounts of vegetation had been wiped out and the world needed to start preparing for glaciers below 6,000 metres to no longer exist…READ ALL
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-20/mount-everest-expedition-to-collect-environmental-data/11219992
20
19 Jun: CBS Denver: Colorado Weather: Summer Snow In The Mountains This Weekend, Chilly In Denver
By Ashton Altieri
Then an usually strong cold front for this time of year will arrive Thursday night into Friday.
As the colder air invades the Colorado high country, it should become cold enough Saturday night for snow. Accumulation is possible above 10,000 feet while snow may fall as low as 9,000 feet. High temperatures in the mountains for the first weekend of summer will only be in the 40s and 50s!…
19 Jun: WeatherChannel: Wisconsin Town’s Lingering Snow Pile: Will It Ever Melt?
By Jan Wesner Childs
It might be June, but the last lingering sign of winter in Appleton, Wisconsin, isn’t giving up.
The “yellow ramp snow pile,” as it’s known locally, remains as a reminder of the 78 inches of snow that fell this winter on the town 30 miles south of Green Bay.
The big question: When will it finally go away?
Doran said it can reach 20 feet tall in the height of winter, but has shrunk down to about 2 feet now…
Last year, the pile hung around until July 9, thanks in part to an April snowstorm that dumped nearly 31 inches of snow on Appleton. Overall, the city had about 20 more inches of snow this year than last, and 33 inches more than in an average year, but most of it fell in January and February.
Winter-weary local residents have suggested giving the pile an official name, or starting a pool to bet on when it might melt…
https://weather.com/news/news/2019-06-19-appleton-snow-pile
19 Jun: UK Sun: THUNDER & FRIGHTENING UK weather forecast – Met Office warn hailstorms, lightning and FLOODS will cause 36 hours of misery for Brits
by Hana Carter, Neal Baker
The Met Office has issued a yellow “severe” weather warning for torrential rain, hail and lightning until 9pm this evening…
After this week’s soaking saw June on track to be the coldest in 28 years, sunshine and warmer temperatures are set to return next week.
But further thunderstorms come amid flooding fears, with Atlantic fronts hitting in the second half of this week and bringing a cool-down to 19C…
40
the writer: Josh First lives in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. He has worked for federal and state government and national and local land trusts and has run his own conservation business since 2004.
19 Jun: American Thinker: It’s time to remake the out-of-control EPA
By Josh First
Earlier this year, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s purported “top climate change expert” and the agency’s highest paid employee, John C. Beale, was arrested and convicted of fraud. Turns out that while at EPA, Beale pretended to also work for the CIA and for years had wasted his official employment time while loafing around his house in his underwear. Taxpayers are mad about Beale’s theft of their money, and “climate change” advocates are humiliated, because Beale’s purported knowledge and expertise about this made-up subject was also similarly made up. Beale was an expert at lying; that is it.
I am not surprised about the Beale scandal, because I worked at the U.S. EPA for seven years, from 1991 to 1998, as a GS-13 policy and legislative staffer. With some exceptions, what I saw there among many other staff was consistent with Beale’s behavior…
When I started at the EPA, we were evaluating potential chemical impacts by parts per thousand and parts per million. Now politicized pressure groups, agency staffers, and judges, not science, demand purity standards beyond naturally occurring background amounts: detection rates of parts per billion and even parts per trillion. Or worse: Under the “Waters of the United States” regulation, every mud puddle in a farm field and every wet forest road ditch became subject to direct regulation by EPA bureaucrats without a whit of common sense or understanding of what they were doing to the people who lived there…READ ON
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/06/its_time_to_remake_the_outofcontrol_epa.html
60
That’s an interesting comment about particulate emissions. I haven’t followed up on this recently, but I believe that EPA introduced the low level of 2.5 ppm for particulates based on very dubious research. I think that it has been this very low level that caused the recent problems with Diesel engine emissions.
40
academia!
19 Jun: Guardian: Coal-loving colonials put Australia on the road to cooked. Now it’s time to turn the heat down
Climate change is colonialism’s final frontier which is why land rights are the first order of climate justice
by Liz Conor
(Liz Conor is a senior research fellow in history at La Trobe University. She is the author of Skin Deep: Settler Impressions of Aboriginal Women)
In the Anthropocene we humans have become a geological force, a “force of nature” – and a self-defeating one. But this crisis in climate and extinction was first kindled by coal-fired colonialism and its ethos of extraction and elimination.
Here in Australia the historical coincidence of colonialism and coal sticks out like a porcupine at a nudists’ colony…
Coal literally stoked the engines of colonial invasion…
First Nation peoples are losing their homes to rising seas…
Naomi Klein has called these homelands “sacrifice zones” on the “disposable peripheries” of western capitalism…
The first order of climate justice would be wresting these lands from the Coaliphate and returning them to their custodians to be restored through their intimately localised knowledge of sustainability and resource management. This is how we could avert the climate crisis, this ominous planetary deadening that coal-fired colonialism precipitated and preordained.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/19/coal-loving-colonials-put-australia-on-the-road-to-cooked-now-its-time-to-turn-the-heat-down
Twitter: Liz Conor, ARC Future Fellow. Manque Commentator. ‘Former Hottie’. (profile graphic by Deborah Kelly)
Conor re-tweets:
(Prof) Brian Cox 22h ago:
I also think we may not last much longer, or at least be about to suffer a significant setback, because our civilisation is currently run by a bunch of sh*t heads.
https://twitter.com/LizConor
11
pat:
“Coal literally stoked the engines of colonial invasion…” I didn’t know our First Fleet used steam boats. My grandfather would have got here 100 years before he did in that case.
50
With the correct three-pointed flux capacitor he could’ve arrived before he left.
40
Liz Conors powerful underlying message is illuminating and compelling.
Her university La Trobe is clearly revealed as a “sacrifice zone” on the “disposable periphery” of historical truth.
And I am not so sure First Nations remote communities will be forgoing their fossil fuelled toyotas and diesel powered electricity anytime soon- the community stores, refrigerators, clinics, schools, pools and dialysis machines depend on it. (wind turbines disintegrated years ago, and solar panels and solar hot water panels are simply convenient targets for kids practicing their ” sustainability and resource management” rock throwing hunting skills).
20
News from the Guardian that Corey Bernardi is considering resigning from parliament before his term expires and is open to rejoining the liberals before retiring
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/19/cory-bernadi-considers-rejoining-coalition-and-leaving-parliament-before-term-expires
20
He deserves a front bench seat.
40
I suspect that the Guardian is again putting up misinformation.
There is an ABC report that he is winding up the ACP & considering rejoining the Liberal Party as it is now being lead by a Conservative leader – Morroson the PM.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-20/cory-bernardi-de-registering-australian-conservatives/11230750
40
The Guardian got the scoop and the ABC plays follow up, this is not misinformation.
30
I hope he does not quit.
If that happened he would be replace most probably by a Liberal Pollie with “Duck Disease”.
( See Graeme#3 comment on SA Liberal Pollies ! )
Not the best outcome !
30
Cory is disappointed that ACP has floundered, but he can reinvent himself as a government minister. The SA Liberals are pathetic, so I see Cory leading them out of the political wilderness.
40
Guardian is a joke:
19 Jun: Guardian: Two-thirds of Britons want faster action on climate, poll finds
Research suggests support for urgent measures to tackle crisis is becoming mainstream
by Sandra Laville
PIC: Students take part in a climate protest in Westminster last month. Photograph: Aaron Chown/PA
Nearly 70% of British people want urgent political action to tackle climate change and protect the natural environment, according to research ***by a coalition of green charities…
The survey suggests demand for action to tackle the climate crisis is becoming part of a mainstream view…
The Climate Coalition and Greener UK consists of more than 130 organisations including the Women’s Institute (WI), NGOs such as Cafod, Oxfam, WWF and Tearfund, as well as the National Trust, Mumsnet and the National Union of Students. They are lobbying parliament next week to say “The time is now” for action.
Organisers say more than 14,000 people from all over the country intend to come to Westminster to demand urgent action in a rally on Wednesday 26 June…
Rosie Harden-Vane, 66, a member of Seaton Valley WI (Women’s Institute), said: “I have never done anything like this before and feel quite nervous. However, if I can’t make my voice heard, I would be turning my back on the most important issue of our time. If we don’t change the way we are treating the planet with immediate effect, in my lifetime the decline will be irreversible.”…
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/19/britons-want-faster-action-climate-poll
10
Trump triggers them again – by nominating the current US Ambassador to Canada, Kelly Craft, to be Ambassador to the UN. note spouse is ***EX-billionaire. read all:
19 Jun: Forbes: Trump’s Pick For United Nations Ambassador Is Married To An ***Ex-Billionaire With A Coal Fortune Worth Millions
by Michela Tindera
When Kelly Craft, President Trump’s nominee to replace Nikki Haley as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, sat before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations Wednesday morning, she was the latest in a long line of Trump appointees to face scrutiny over her personal finances.
That’s because her husband, Joseph Craft III, is the longtime CEO of publicly traded coal giant Alliance Resource Partners—potentially putting her in an awkward position on international discussions surrounding climate change and the environment. During Haley’s tenure, the Trump administration pulled out of the Paris Agreement, the international pact that aims to lower greenhouse gas emissions, in 2017. It voted to oppose a resolution on a global pact for the environment the next year.
Alliance noted the impact of such decisions in its 2018 annual report, filed in February. The report mentions the Paris Agreement multiple times, stating that countries’ pledges to reduce carbon dioxide emissions could “further reduce demand and prices for our coal.” In the report’s “Risk Factors” section, Alliance also highlights the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports, noting that “concerns about the environmental impacts of coal combustion, including perceived impacts on global climate issues, are resulting in increased regulation of coal combustion in many jurisdictions, unfavorable lending policies by lending institutions and divestment efforts affecting the investment community, which could significantly affect demand for our products or our securities.”…READ ALL
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2019/06/19/trumps-pick-for-united-nations-ambassador-is-married-to-an-ex-billionaire-with-a-coal-fortune-worth-millions-kelly-craft/
30
19 Jun: EurActiv: Only eight EU countries plan to phase out coal by 2030
by EURACTIV.com with AFP
The EU said Tuesday (18 June) that eight of its 28 member countries aim to phase out coal-powered electricity by 2030, triggering charges it is missing the mark under the Paris climate deal…
An EU official told AFP the remaining 20 countries, including heavily coal-dependent Poland, had not submitted timelines for weaning themselves off the fossil fuel…
Berlin-based Climate Analytics said the impact of the pledges was limited as the eight countries account for less than 20% of the EU’s total installed coal capacity.
Under current pledges, “40% of current capacity will still be online in 2030,” the research institute’s Paola Yanguas Parra told AFP.
“This is highly inconsistent with the Paris Agreement, which requires a full phase out in the EU by 2030,” Yanguas Parra said in an email…
The EU official said meanwhile the commission was also waiting for the initial eight countries to detail how they will achieve the coal phaseout.
Not only must they show how they will finance the shift but what green energy source they will use to replace coal…
https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/only-eight-eu-countries-plan-to-phase-out-coal-by-2030/
behind paywall:
Let’s use our natural advantage in energy to power prosperity by Tony Grey
The Australian-9 hours ago
Australia is a treasure trove, a vast Aladdin’s cave of energy resources virtually unique in the world, with its combination of uranium, coal and natural gas, not to mention an enviable amount of oil…Uranium used to be the devil; now it’s coal…
19 Jun: Jakarta Post: Indonesian firm to export coal to Bangladesh
Bangladesh is set to import coal for the first time for a power plant as part of efforts to diversify its fuel mix in the electricity generation sector.
The Bangladesh-China Power Company signed a deal with an Indonesian firm in Dhaka on Sunday to import coal for the 1,320-megawatt coal-fired Payra power plant in Patuakhali…
Addressing the program, Tawfiq-e-Elahi Chowdhury, energy adviser to the prime minister, said the plant was being constructed with a carbon emission control system.
He said there was no possibility of environment pollution, while the power generation costs would be cheaper because of the coal…
Coal reserves stand at 3,300 million metric tons, which is equivalent to 78 trillion cubic feet (tcf) of natural gas. Gas reserve, which stands at 12.11 tcf, is depleting fast and will last maximum a decade…
10
academia?
19 Jun: TheConversation: Australia’s energy exports increase global greenhouse emissions, not decrease them
Authors:
Frank Jotzo, Director, Centre for Climate Economics and Policy, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University
Salim Mazouz, Research Manager, Crawford School of Public Policy; and Director at EcoPerspectives, Australian National University
Disclosure statement
Frank Jotzo leads research projects on energy and climate change policy and economics. There are no conflicts of interest regarding this article arising from any funding received or any of the author’s affiliations.
Salim Mazouz receives funding from various organisation in his role as Director at the consultancy EcoPerspectives. Salim also participates in externally funded research projects at ANU. He has no conflict of interest with regard to the issues discussed in this article.
The way Australia can help clean up world energy systems in the future is through large-scale production and export of renewable energy…
The crucial point is that all alternative fuels are less emissions-intensive than coal…
So, removing Australian coal from the world market would reduce global emissions. Conversely, adding Australian coal to the world market would increase global emissions…
http://theconversation.com/australias-energy-exports-increase-global-greenhouse-emissions-not-decrease-them-118990
11
19 Jun: Eco-Business: ADB not yet ready to quit coal
At the Asia Clean Energy Forum in Manila yesterday, Asian Development Bank president Takehiko Nakao said it could not rule out funding coal power as there is ‘no other option’ for some countries in Asia. Protesters outside the event called on ADB to draw up a time-bound phase-out plan for coal financing.
ADB’s current energy policy, released in 2009, prioritises energy security and poverty reduction even if this means tapping coal and natural gas-based power generation…
An energy specialist from China-based development bank Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) echoed the ADB’s sentiments.
“Like ADB, we only support coal in countries where there is no alternative. In certain countries, coal is still subsidised. Countries with huge energy demands are not ready yet [to let go of coal],” David Morgado, senior energy policy specialist of AIIB, said in a plenary session on trends in clean energy finance.
On the sidelines of the forum, Morgado told Eco-Business that part of AIIB’s energy strategy is to be open to coal funding…
https://www.eco-business.com/news/adb-not-yet-ready-to-quit-coal/
01
“Like ADB, we only support coal in countries where there is no alternative.”
We don’t have a reliable alternative, that must count for something. All our gas is going to north China.
50
It isn’t ALL going north, there are proven reserves that Dan has quarantined. The exporters needed signed contracts before banks would lend them the billions to develop their liquefaction trains so they have first call. That’s fair, no Australian signed a contract when they were needed most.
40
Wish I had a dollar for every time that I had to correct this misapprehension. WA has a very good domestic gas reservation policy in place, supported by both political parties, that provides adequate gas for our domestic use at reasonable prices. Also WA derives around 40% of its power from gas. Other states could do the same if they were willing to use their own gas and include a domestic reservation policy. I see that the Federal govt are looking at this, but I believe that it’s a state issue.
50
So I wonder why South Australia does not do the same thing Graeme ?
is there some kind of political, constitutional or ideological road block ?
40
@ Bill in Oz:
It’s called duck disease, except South Australia politicians have their brains too low to the ground esp. when standing upright (think about it).
30
G4 the federal government had to lean on the multinationals to save some gas for south east Australia and the word is we are going to have to import LNG from the US within a couple of years.
In NSW we have shut the gate on fracking multinationals, its is a state’s matter.
30
Prey tell how do we do that? We certainly can’t make the bird chompers or cells here, we have been deindustrialised.
The only way I can think of exporting energy is to solidify it in the form of refined metals. I’ve heard aluminium described as “coagulated electricity”. Houston we have a problem, you can’t refine metals with unreliables, having vats solidify during a power outage is devastating to a refiner. Besides greens hate refineries.
Ya just can’t win, it seems.
50
And even if refined metal is exported as energy, it still needs more energy to make it into useful components.
I recall seeing documentaries that show how they dig up aluminium ore, transport it 2000 kms to a refinery, heat it to something like 2000°C, to produce ingots, transport the ingots 1500km to a factory, heat it to say 1500°C, the roll it into sheets etc etc
50
Japan recently set a target to be 80% carbon free by 2050.
But as they have limited opportunity for Solar or wind, and are running scared of nuclear,.. they have proposed to fuel their energy needs using hydrogen produced from solar/wind overseas..such as in Australia where we apparently have boundless solar potential !
Just running a few numbers for even 50% of just their electricity demand ( 100 GW average = 2400 GWh per day ..).. it can be seen that at least 500 GW of solar farms (@ 20% CF) would be needed…..even before you consider the conversion losses for producing Hydrogen in some unimaginably huge hydrogen plant !
And that is only half of just their electricity..no transportation energy etc.
30
19 Jun: RenewEconomy: CSIRO, NAB chair say shift to 100% renewables inevitable, and likely by 2050
by Michael Mazengarb
Australia’s main scientific research organisation, along with academics, economists, policy analysis and business people such as National Australia Bank chair Ken Henry, say that the shift to 100 per cent renewables in Australia’s grid is inevitable, and likely by 2050…
Key to Australia’s future prosperity is for governments to embrace technological change and plan for the transition to a 100 per cent renewable energy grid, along with working cooperatively with other countries to tackle climate change…
NAB’s Ken Henry, the former Treasury Secretary, said that ***customers and shareholders were putting pressures on companies to adopt a positive vision for the Australian economy that included investments in renewables, which meant Australia was on a pathway towards 100% renewables irrespective of the policy environment…
“Decisions taken by business leaders today will ensure that by about mid-century, Australia’s electricity sector will be 100% renewables. That’s almost irrespective of what decisions are taken at a policy level.” Henry said in an interview with ***ABC’s The Business (LINK).
“And that’s because, leaders of businesses in the energy sector are having to take investment decisions on behalf of their shareholders right now. Shareholders obviously don’t want to see stranded assets.”…
This includes a dramatic shift towards electric vehicles, with the CSIRO predicting that electric vehicles will be the cheapest form of transport as early as 2025, with around half of all vehicles to be all-electric by 2040…
https://reneweconomy.com.au/csiro-nab-chair-say-shift-to-100-renewables-inevitable-and-likely-by-2050-2050/
18 Jun: TheConversation: It’s time for Australia to commit to the kind of future it wants: CSIRO Australian National Outlook 2019
by James Deverell, Director, CSIRO Futures, CSIRO
Disclosure: James Deverell works for the CSIRO, which receives funding from the Australian Government.
Australia could maintain its world-class, highly liveable cities, while increasing its population to 41 million people by 2060. Urban congestion could be reduced, with per capita passenger vehicle travel 45% lower than today in the Outlook Vision.
Australia could achieve net-zero emissions by 2050 while reducing household spend on electricity (relative to incomes) by up to 64%. Importantly, our modelling shows this could be achieved without significant impact on economic growth.
Low-emissions, low-cost energy could even become a source of comparative advantage for Australia, opening up new export opportunities…
In the energy shift, across every scenario modelled, the electricity sector transitions to nearly 100% renewable generation by 2050, driven by market forces and declining electricity generation and storage costs.
Likewise, electric vehicles are on pace to hit price-parity with petrol ones by the mid-2020s and could account for 80% of passenger vehicles by 2060.
In addition, Australia could triple its energy productivity by 2060, meaning it would use only 6% more energy than today, despite the population growing by over 60% and GDP more than tripling…
https://theconversation.com/its-time-for-australia-to-commit-to-the-kind-of-future-it-wants-csiro-australian-national-outlook-2019-118692
01
20 Jun: NAB pledges $2b in debt funding to technology businesses
by Tim Boyd
NAB’s move follows Westpac’s announcement in January that it planned to increase its backing of the start-up sector through a network of specialist bankers in an “emerging industries” division.
It also coincides with the release this week of the Australian National Outlook report, a study led by NAB and the CSIRO…
Outgoing NAB chairman Ken Henry was part of the panel that launched the Australian National Outlook paper on Tuesday…
https://www.afr.com/business/banking-and-finance/nab-pledges-2b-in-debt-funding-to-technology-businesses-20190619-p51z8o
Bosses get behind CSIRO vision for future to 2060 – Ticky Fullerton
The Australian – 18 Jun 2019
The release of the Australian National Outlook, CSIROs massive research project on the future of the country, comes at an important time…Ken Henry and CSIRO chair David Thodey have jointly steered the … and the responsibility for our future should not be the responsibility only of …
—-
passed by this channel last nite and Ken Henry was on a panel with others; Ticky Fullerton in charge, plus a small audience. it was just ending. audience was asked – any more questions? complete silence. guess it had been a riveting 65 minutes!
can’t find anything online except this which has multiple times listed, if you click “more times”:
Foxtel: Sky News Extra #604 Sun 23 Jun 6:55pm – 8:00pm: Australian National Outlook Report
Ticky Fullerton moderates a panel discussion with joint ANO Chairs David Thodey and Ken Henry, Australian Red Cross CEO, Judy Slatyer, Lendlease Property CEO, Kylie Rampa & CSIRO Futures Director, James Deverell – 65 mins
https://www.foxtel.com.au/tv-guide/Australian-National-Outlook-Report/Australian-National-Outlook-Report/105078059
10
ABC story on the glaciers of the Himalayas
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-20/cold-war-era-images-show-glaciers-are-melting-fast/11226838
It seems they’ve given up on the Arctic and Antarctic melting. Now it’s the third pole in the Himalayas & Tibetan plateau which is melting.
Supposedly this story is based on USA spy satellite photos taken in the 1970’s which have just been declassified and put up on the web.
But no sources provided.
Any thoughts about this ?
50
Some additional information can be found here :
https://www.carbonbrief.org/cold-war-spy-photos-reveal-doubling-of-glacier-ice-loss-in-himalayas
And I have just read this statement in that source : ” It is worth noting that the study did not include the glaciers in Karakoram and Kunlun, where levels of ice are “anomalously” stable or increasing, according to the researchers. Carbon Brief has previously reported on the surging of Karakoram’s glaciers.”
Duhhhhhhhhhh ?
So on one hand the glaciers are melting. But the glaciers nearby are not but growing.
Well the melting happening in the Himalaysa can’t possibly be the result of CO2 increasing, can it ? Something else must be happening.
60
Any thoughts about this ?…. no, its probably BS.
Some regions glaciers grow, some they retreat. Even in the same mountain range, its complex, Tony Heller, ex Geologist mentioned this in one of his videos. Its complex, far too hard for journos to understand but it makes a great (fake) story.
mostly the temperature above 4000m isnt much above 0. More likely related to cloud cover and monsoonal changes. (guessing)
50
Exactly, glaciers are continually waxing and waning.
Obama famously delivered a “climate crisis” type address in front of a shrinking glacier in Alaska during his second term oblivious to the fact that there were many glaciers just over the horizon which were growing.
50
I have done some additional looking around on the web. I eventually found the actual published research article in Advances in Science magazine.
And there in the discussion is this sentence : ” the Himalayas border hot spots of high anthropogenic BC emissions, which may affect glaciers by direct heating of the atmosphere and decreasing albedo of ice and snow after deposition ”
BC = Black Carbon = soot
Where is the soot coming from ? The rapidly industrialising 1400 million people country of India with most of the population living immediately South of the Himalayas on the Ganges plain..
So is Global Warming the reason for the glaciers melting in the Himalayas ? No. The obvious reason is that soot being produced by coal, wood, dung and other fuels, being spewed out in India are leading to increased deposition of soot on the snow and ice of the Himalayas. This lowers the albedo and more sunlight is being absorbed.
Net result ? Increased temperatures and more ice melting.
I doubt that any attempts to reduce soot emissions or CO2 will take place in India. The Indians are busy building prosperity and eliminating poverty. Though they might from typical Indian courtesy, nod wisely whenever anyone brings it up.
For all those interested here is the link to the research article : https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/6/eaav7266
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another good point
20
I am continually amazed. In the 1970s all scientists and journalists were warning of the imminent ice age. Then on 22 June 1988, exactly 31 years ago, a young James Hanson and college footballer and aspiring President Al Gore climbed up into the top of the Capitol building and opened the windows to defeat the airconditioning. James then spread this horror story about the evils of carbon dioxide, without any proof.
In the last 31 years, no one has found any proof. Even our own CSIRO had 350 full time researchers trying to prove it existed and gave up. The story that CO2 is the nastiest chemical on the planet is laughable, that it causes anything but good, unproven. Still it has been labelled pollution and power stations are now polluters and need to be shut down.
How did it come to this that an unproven conjecture became a worldwide movement of the left of politics and the very stuff of life, CO2, has been vilified?
Without CO2 there is no life on earth. Apparently in this new climate catastrophe science we humans now control the level of CO2 in the air and CO2 growth must be stopped. Good luck with that. It’s nonsense.
120
Doesn’t anyone ask themselves how fish breathe, where they get their fresh oxygen? If oxygen can exchange rapidly with the air and continually refresh and maintain equilibrium in both water and air, why not CO2?
50
Funny how the ABC edited out this important bit of information
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This was meant to be an additional remark for 38.1
But WordPress put it here.
Why ?
30
There are all kinds of reasons why the US needs to get practical in a hurry. Pensions come to mind. But infrastructure is a biggie.
No doubt the American Society of Civil Engineers is putrid with lobbyists and trough-feeders. You can’t keep people like that out of a funded body. (They even have a “foundation”!)
But it’s certain that ASCE represents a lot of good people who know things, make things and fix things on the largest scale. So it’s fair to cast a glance over their infrastructure report card (2017) for the US. It’s bad: a D+. The highest mark is a B+ (solid waste) while inland waterways and levees are at rock bottom on D-. The state of dams and drinking water (pair of Ds) makes bridges look positively glamorous on C+.
Energy has a D+.
Here’s what I’m wondering. How “green” is a crumbling great power? What’s its “footprint”? And will anyone care?
It may not be smart to export American gas at bad prices to Poland to block much cheaper and easier Russian provision (even buying Russian product to make up shortfalls of US gas!). But I doubt Trump can call all or even most of the shots in matters of war and geopolitics. At least he’s got some of America’s abundant coal back on track for domestic generation, with luck setting an example for Oz. Baby steps.
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America’s problem is the massive corruption embedded in the swamp. So much money is defrauded and wasted there is little left with which to advance the nation. I spent a few weeks in the Philippines reading their papers and it was clear they had the same problem. There is no other explanation as to why such hard working, educated people can’t get out of the rut they are in.
40
O/T sort of
Economic honours
“President Trump Presents Medal of Freedom to Economist Dr. Arthur Laffer – Video and Transcript…”
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/06/19/president-trump-presents-medal-of-freedom-to-economist-dr-arthur-laffer-video-and-transcript/
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Huge ships burning bunker fuel put out far more pollution than a US coal power station.
50
Huge factories in China making rare earth magnets for wind turbines and purifying materials for solar panels put of FAR, FAR more real pollution than the US coal powered stations.
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Probably more real pollution than all the combined coal fired power stations in the world !
Modern power stations put out very little real pollution, unlike the manufacture of those magnets and panels.
40
Look, Trump is great on the climate hoax but hes of beam about allot of other geopolitical events situations, probably manipulated by certain individuals that he should really sack.
31
The beauty of an open forum is that I can disagree. I think he is tackling the geopolitical very well. Nth Korea is not a lost cause yet, I think he will make progress there and he is the first Pres. to understand the grave threat China poses to the west and to do something about it.
70
Amen!
40
“Y2Kyoto: The Planet Has A Fever”
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/06/19/y2kyoto-the-planet-has-a-fever-5/
20
Folks, it’s not about coal it’s about big mouth, shoot from the hip cowboy, braggart, egomaniac, probably womanizer, maybe some things worse than any of those, Donald John Trump, President of the United States of America standing up tall and getting the right things done in spite of the whole of over 200 years of built up political machinery trying to stop him.
He wouldn’t silently slink away with his tail between his legs when they wanted him to and leave the White House for Queen Hillary the Great, the Wise, the all knowing Hillary. So they have to waste the whole county in an effort to destroy him. He, not coal or anything else, he is the only problem this country has to a bunch of sore losers. And they talk of impeachment as though passing a bill of impeachment in the House of Representatives is all it takes. But then the Senate must try the charges against him with a 2/3 majority vote required to convict him.
There is zero chance of conviction. Not even the worst RINO Republican would be stupid enough to do that. More than enough Democrats will follow the Republicans and the few Democrats with any brains at all (Pelosi is one in spite of how she behaves) know that impeachment cannot succeed. And they fear the Senate trial because during trial Trump’s lawyers have the power of discovery and can subpoena witnesses and get warrants for evidence, a privilege he didn’t have with Robert Mueller. And they will bring up every last nut, bolt and washer. They will have the testimony of everyone involved in years of corruption and malfeasance with the result being a blood bath like DC has never seen before.
Many Democrats, their stooges and allies not in elected office will fall.
And our new Attorney General, William Barr is a quiet self assured, competent man who, like Trump, has already set out to get results. He, like Trump, is not intimidated by the House of Representatives. He’s going to be the Democrat’s worst nightmare even if they don’t impeach Trump.
This is going to be political circus of the highest order.
The Democrats venerate Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez more and more as leader of the party and they do not realize they are being led to the edge of a cliff so that, if they don’t jump, they can be pushed. Trump wins.
I sit here saying, yes, do impeach Trump. Please impeach the president. I can’t wait for it to start. 🙂
90
First thing I do every morn is to open Breitbart to catch the latest. The US political scene is the most intriguing thing to happen in my life, and I’m an old phart. 🙂
Bill Barr is the key, he has more effective power than Trump. There was talk when nominated that he is just another swampy but I think the jury can now give a verdict – He is the best we could hope for. Time is of the essence, it is running out, heads must roll inside 6 mths or there won’t be enough time for the truth to get past the gatekeepers.
Luv the meme: There are more people queued for the toilets at a Trump rally than showed for numerous “Impeach Trump” rallies.
70
As an Aussie I should acknowledge The Dismissal, it was pure theatre, but it only lasted for a short time. For Roy, it was an effective impeachment but sudden.
20
Hanrahan,
The only thing I can think of that you’re referring to is my saying, “Amen!” That means I agree with you. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.
You stated the situation accurately and I agreed. It translates directly into English as, “So be it.”
30
It was a reply to self. It was an addendum to me saying “The US political scene is the most intriguing thing to happen in my life,”
10
Then we’re cool, as they say. Let’s enjoy it together.
I don’t like the waiting for the inevitable clash. Uncertainty is not good for the country, not good for the stock market either. I got a little carried away in that, still, as convinced as I am about it, I have no way of knowing if it will work out the way I think it will. Sometimes you need to say it to make the conviction stronger. Or to convince the psychologists that you’re obsessing over a simple, inconsequential matter of honesty in politics.
I guess you can tell that after all the years of watching things go to hell (sorry Jo), I’m anxious to see those responsible begin to have their hard work rewarded.
20
Thanks Roy, an amazing summary of The Situation.
KK
30
KK,
I wish I could say that it’s all over and done with and the political landscape was littered with the careers of those who had so little basic honesty that they did things to screw their country for personal gain. That would be really amazing.
And already the next wave of these (what’s a good word, I don’t even know of one good enough) is waiting in the wings. If you pay attention to what today’s hangers on, the sons and daughters and associates of the movers and shakers, etc. are doing you can see which way they’re drifting sometimes.
When those Franciscan Fathers named Los Angeles all those years ago they saw something there worth giving the place in Spanish, the name “El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula”. In English, “town of our lady the Queen of Angels of the River Porciúncula” Today the streets of downtown Los Angeles are wall to wall squatters, stench, drugs and worse, nothing more than a refugee camp for the dregs of society. And the mayor talks so big. KK, to listen to Mayor Eric Garcetti you would think he had saved the world right there on the streets of City of the Angels. And he’s done nothing. He’s a political climber with a record of zero accomplishment yet he gets reelected while waiting for a chance to become another Barack Obama.
And I lived there at one time and it was still a beautiful place but in less than my lifetime it has been reduced to one gigantic sprawling outhouse. What must we do to reclaim what was good and wonderful about human society? Or was there ever anything good and wonderful about human society? Was Los Angeles just a mistake that has corrected itself?
The only answer I can give you is that life has become so cheap that the Mayor of a large important city can leave its very foundation to rot in the streets while he struts his stuff and makes yet more promises not worth the breath to speak them.
Yes, Keith, I want a pound of flesh from these killers of the human spirit, these who sow hopelessness and lay waste to everything they touch. And if it takes a man like Donald Trump with all his faults to do it, so be it.
30
As a general comment about pollution, it’s interesting that Shaghai has one of the world’s best longevity figures.
30
I have Bolt/Moylin open in a window and he is lamenting our serious lack of oil reserves, 21 days worth he says.
Does anyone here have knowledge of in ground oil reserves that we mushrooms have not been told of?
41
reminder:
Brisbane protesters lock themselves to CBD crossing
Courier-Mail – 18 Jun 2019
Insp Acreman said the pair ***had not committed a crime but caused a public nuisance and failed to comply with police direction to leave the scene…
19 Jun: 9News: AAP: Brisbane protester fined after super glue stunt
Eric Serge Herbert, 19, caused traffic delays for three hours in Brisbane on Tuesday when he and a woman superglued themselves to a zebra crossing in the CBD.
Then he would not leave the watch-house after his arrest, refusing to sign his bail undertaking when police tried to release him.
So he fronted Brisbane Magistrates Court on Wednesday after spending the night in the watch-house.
“He was offered bail but like a true armchair revolutionary he wasn’t going to sign it,” magistrates Suzette Coates said.
Herbert pleaded guilty to public nuisance and contravening a direction.
He was fined $550 with no conviction recorded.
20 Jun: QldMining&Energy: Anti-Adani superglue protestor fined and vows to do it again
by Richard Szabo
Convicted ‘nuisance’ will do it again
Herbert does not appear to have learnt his lesson and now plans to do another stunt.
“I would do it again and plan on doing it again,” he told reporters…
Extinction Rebellion is now advertising on social media a workshop scheduled for June 22 to train more youth in using “peaceful civil disobedience tactics to effect the change we need to avert extinction”.
“Both our climate protectors are out of lock up after causing an absolute media storm by disrupting traffic in the Brisbane CBD for over three hours,” the group said on Facebook. “They did this with both a lock on and super gluing their hands to the road … there will need to be thousands of us come ***August 6th when we shut down Brisbane for Rebellion Day.”
The female protestor, Ebony, will face court in July.
https://www.qmeb.com.au/anti-adani-superglue-protestor-fined-and-vows-to-do-it-again/
Adani mine student protest to shut down Brisbane CBD
Courier Mail – 20 Jun 2019
STUDENTS angry at the State Government’s approval of the Adani Coal Mine are preparing to ***close down the centre of Brisbane in protest during Friday’s peak hour…
—
DM couldn’t resist giving him maximum PR:
Climate change protester who super-glued himself to a city street is the triplet brother of two models – and a uni drop out whose PARENTS pay for his full-time activism
By Nic White and Lauren Ferri
Daily Mail – 20 Jun 2019
While his sisters strutted the catwalk, he studied nanoscience at UNSW in Sydney before dramatically quitting in April to be a full-time anti-Adani activist.
Herbert is now back in his Queensland home town where he is funded by his parents who sent all three triplets to private school…
They (the models) ***travel around the world for much of the year, working as models and Instagram influencers as they go…
Elisha and Renee wanted to be marine biologists growing up and dabble in environmental activism – just in a less extreme way that their brother.
The twins went on a snorkelling trip to the Great Barrier Reef to highlight coral death, and worked with a rhino charity in Africa…
The 19-year-old fronted Brisbane Magistrates Court on Wednesday, claiming he doesn’t work or study and lives off his parents…
Herbert, an unemployed former university student who is supported by his parents, told the court he was protesting the ‘genocide of life on earth’…
‘I don’t care what punishment I get. Nothing’s going to stop me from doing this again,’ he said…
01
20 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: ‘Gentlemen’s agreement’ could leave 1.5C science report out of formal UN talks
Unless objections from Saudi Arabia can be overcome by next week, a major scientific study may be sidelined in discussions on the Paris Agreement
By Chloé Farand
After pressure from Saudi Arabia, a major report on 1.5C faces being dropped from formal negotiations in the science stream of UN climate talks…
Under what diplomats called a “gentlemen’s agreement”, which was struck before the Bonn meeting opened, negotiators agreed to work on a compromise. They also agreed to conclude discussions by next Wednesday, regardless of whether they have reached firm conclusions…READ ON
https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/06/20/gentlemens-agreement-leave-1-5c-science-report-formal-un-talks/
20 Jun: GreenpeaceUnearthed: Oil majors withhold support for ambitious EU climate target
BP and Shell declined to back a plan to reduce European greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050
by Lawrence Carter
Some of the world’s largest oil companies, including BP and Shell, the Italian major Eni and Spanish company Repsol, have withheld support for the proposal to increase the EU’s target, despite previously stating their backing for the Paris climate agreement…
When contacted by Unearthed, Shell said that the company supported a net zero goal but would not give a date by which this should happen…
A BP spokesman said the company supports a carbon neutral future “in the decades to come”…
Eni did not respond to requests for comment…
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/06/20/bp-shell-net-zero-climate-target/
01
provided or likely provided?
19 Jun: RenewEconomy: Lobbyist ***who provided Morrison’s lump of coal joins PM’s advisory team
by Sophie Vorrath
In case there was any doubt about the ties that bind Australia’s top coal lobbyists with the federal Coalition government, former Minerals Council of Australia CEO Brendan Pearson has been tapped as a senior adviser to Scott Morrison.
The appointment, revealed in The Australian (LINK) on Wednesday, shifts Pearson up in the Coalition pecking order from the office of the minister for finance, Mathias Cormann, to Morrison’s inner sanctum…
It also reunites the Prime Minister with the ***likely source of the infamous lacquered lump of coal he brandished in Parliament back in 2017, when Pearson still headed up the Minerals Council…
https://reneweconomy.com.au/lobbyist-who-provided-morrisons-lump-of-coal-joins-pms-advisory-team-93806/
20
LOL….New York deserve themselves.
10
How phoney all this Climate Change legislation is. Those states will all have to buy electricity from the surrounding states (sound familiar Aussies?). The cost to consumers for electricity will go sky high in New York State to pay for the stupid solar panels and wind generators as has happened in California and elsewhere. Homelessness has already sky-rocketed in California because people can’t afford houses or apartments, anymore. Worse than 3rd world conditions excist in Los Angeles and San Francisco with the addition of illegal aliens making it impossible for the cities to catch up, Rolling blackouts are happening already.
Those who can are fleeing California and New York State both. Those of us who live near either state hope those who move in don’t bring the disease of Socialism with them. U.S. Leftists seem to be terminally insane, however.
00
How phoney all this Climate Change legislation is. Those states will all have to buy electricity from the surrounding states (sound familiar Aussies?). The cost to consumers for electricity will go sky high in New York State to pay for the stupid solar panels and wind generators as has happened in California and elsewhere. Homelessness has already sky-rocketed in California because people can’t afford houses or apartments, anymore. Worse than 3rd world conditions excist in Los Angeles and San Francisco with the addition of illegal aliens making it impossible for the cities to catch up, Rolling blackouts are happening already.
Those who can are fleeing California and New York State both. Those of us who live near either state hope those who move in don’t bring the disease of Socialism with them. U.S. Leftists seem to be terminally insane, however.
00
Duh! SDorry about the repeat.
00