It’s a nervous wait til summer. The Australian grid appears to be in slightly better shape than a couple of months ago, but it’s still so shaky manufacturers admit they are developing contingency plans to move operations interstate if a blackout hits, or they get attacked by a bout of high prices:
Something that doesn’t happen in competent countries with reliable electricity:
Victorian manufacturers prepare for power crunch
Angela McDonald-Smith and Mark Ludlow, AFR
Manufacturers are drawing up contingency plans to shift operations out of Victoria this summer as fears of blackouts and sky-high electricity prices for the March quarter keep nerves on edge.
While worries about blackouts in Victoria have eased in the past three months, Coca-Cola chief executive Alison Watkins said on Friday the company was prepared to beef up manufacturing in other states should the worst-case scenario eventuate in Victoria and generation fall short of demand.
Just another burden and inefficiency on business.
As power gets more expensive and unreliable the Victorian government is blaming coal:
Victoria’s Energy Minister, Lily D’Ambrosio, reiterated her concern that the increasing failure of ageing privately owned coal power generators was the biggest threat to Victoria’s power supply. She noted the work by AEMO “to secure the back-up power we need to compensate for this unreliability”. The definition of incompetence is having a 430-billion tonne brown coal reserve but not enough electricity to operate the manufacturers that haven’t already left. In any case, old coal plants don’t have to die, we could just keep fixing them. But the land of incompetence not only seems to have forgotten how, but it’s forgetting that it ever could. Running the behemoths in an increasingly peaky grid, with more volatile demand, higher voltage swings, and more outages, while on shrinking profit margins and in a culture of doom is hardly conducive to good corporate maintenance. South Australia, with more renewables than anywhere, seems rather desperate to get gas power: AGL this month switched on its new $295 million Barker Inlet gas plant outside Adelaide and has won approval to defer the mothballing of units at its Torrens Island plant until at least March. South Australia rushing to add another lean green jet engine to the fleet by summer: The new generator, an Aeroderivative Open Cycle Gas Turbine, is a variation of a jet plane engine and has the capacity to reach full load within five minutes from start. The new turbine is more environmentally friendly, using half the amount of fuel of other generators on site. The Hallett power station at Canowie, around 210 kilometres north of Adelaide, currently has 12 operating turbines with total generation capacity of 203 MW, enough to power over 60,000 South Australian homes. — Energy Australia In this case the money comes from hapless customers who have to pay more because the law says they can’t choose to buy electricity from cheaper generators. After adding more renewables per capita than anywhere on Earth strangely electricity is not cheaper yet, and not forecast to ever get cheaper than what it used to be before we got all those renewables. Forward prices for wholesale power reflect the concerns, with Victoria’s March quarter price now at $147/MWh, having risen early in the winter and only marginally softened. The plant outages, combined with the drought, drove Victoria’s average spot power price to $98/MWh in the September quarter, the fifth highest quarter on record, AEMO said. Victoria’s March quarter price is now almost 45 per cent above that in NSW, which has also risen north of $100/MWh.Saved by fossil fuels:
Saved by jet engines
Saved by other people’s money
Bring out your wallet.
“The new turbine is more environmentally friendly, using half the amount of fuel of other generators on site.” This contrasts nicely with https://twugbcn.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/peaker-case-histories.pdf: Open cycle gas turbine plants, without a steam cycle, are sometimes installed as peaking capacity; their thermal efficiency is much lower. The high running cost per hour is offset by the low capital cost and the intention to run such units only a few hundred hours per year.
250
CG,
I enjoy reading your comments, they are uselly insightful.
Yet, what fool(s) destroy a power supply without proper transition?
Who cares what new “thing” down the road if power can’t be maintained in transition?
I blame ignorance for the issues!
Best,
John
180
WikiStupidia Iis’n a source!
Example:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Victoria_(Australia)
60
Now I’m really confused – please explain !
https://www.australias.guide/vic/history/
40
I think George is saying that the quote from Energy Australia is BS.
See #1.4 below from Graeme No 3.
70
Peter C,
I get your point.
Respectfully,
John
30
If his is BS, why did he quote nonsense ?
30
He’s allowed to.
Freedom of speech, or something.
http://joannenova.com.au/2019/11/farmers-jammed-between-an-inferno-and-a-trip-to-jail-remember-maxwell-szulc/#comment-2224482
KK
20
Curious George,
Greens will only understand your comment if you explain to them that the capital cost of any power infrastructure needs to be depreciated over its working life, and that cost added to the actual cash operating cost.
At the moment, most Greens think that the capital costs of power plant, new transmission lines, backup facilities and grid stabilisation plant are all free (ie someone else pays).
260
And they’d be correct. That cornucopia called the taxpayer makes it all free for the ‘Big Oil’ companies profiting from this rubbish.
20
Given that older style gas turbines are around 35% efficient, then the new one using half the fuel must either reach 70% efficiency or be considerably smaller.
And since the manufacturer of (closed cycle) gas turbines was celebrating getting to 63% efficiency earlier this year, the first option could only be achieved by copious supplies of bull dust.
230
I think that gas turbines are all ‘much of a muchness’ efficiency wise on their own.
The real difference is in closing the cycle ie using the exhaust gas to operate an HRSG and a steam generator. This increases the overall efficiency I think by about 45%.
Can somebody confirm.
GeoffW
60
Geoffrey:
Not quite. The Open Cycle ones reach around 35-42% efficiency. They have improved in recent years. Bear in mind that wear and tear reduces the efficiency as they age, i.e. the more on/off cycling the more stress/heat cracking.
Closed cycles start around 55% overall efficiency with the latest reaching 63% as above. They are normally operated for long time periods, hence less problems with stress cracking, and a lower cost per MWh than Open Cycle types. The problem found in Ireland was that using Closed Cycle plants (More efficient – less CO2 per unit MWh – box ticked by bureaucrat) to balance (or try to) variable wind (box ticked by bureaucrat) reduced the efficiency, increased stresses hence more maintenance, and increased CO2 emissions.
20
The key phrase being “on site”.
““The new turbine is more environmentally friendly, using half the amount of fuel of other generators on site.””
They could equally have said:
“… using half the amount of fuel of the other jet engines around it.”
That would be more informative, but would have undone the point of the sentence which was not to inform but to score with green phrases: “more environmentally friendly” and “half the fuel”.
190
Just out of interes, what fuel do they intend to use? I mean they can run on natural gas, LPG , isopentane, ethanol or diesel.
20
I much prefer Olympic sized swimming pools as a term of measurement , it’s a lot more honest than xxxxx many homes !
40
Alternatively the whole statement is a complete lie, which seems to me more likely.
40
Doesn’t the efficiency (and power output) of these gas turbines decrease significantly on a hot day too ? Simple “PV=NrT” ?
10
“The new generator, an Aeroderivative Open Cycle Gas Turbine, is a variation of a jet plane engine and has the capacity to reach full load within five minutes from start. The new turbine is more environmentally friendly, using half the amount of fuel of other generators on site.”
Yes the full statement is a lot more enlightening as it’s really a peaking plant called into action when bid prices are extremely high because the wind aint blowing and the sun aint shining. That’s when the mugs get to pay for the capital outlay that lies idle waiting for its cue to prop up the unreliables and all the fuzzy accounting going on with true costs.
You want true accounting it could be done at the stroke of a pen and implementing the level playing field. No tenderer of electrons to the communal grid can tender any more than they can reasonably guarantee (ie short of unforeseen mechanical breakdown) 24/7/365 along with minm FCAS levels. The unreliables dumping game would be finished in an instant as they had to install storage to lift their average tender or partner with thermal to insure them and pay them their just insurance premia or some combination of the two. But that would smash their capital investments with true level playing field costs.
30
“ with total generation capacity of 203 MW, enough to power over 60,000 South Australian homes”
A rather useless comparison.
This idea of “homes” seems to be a favorite of media and political types.
More interesting question would be how many unreliable wind turbines (& batteries) might these 12 gas turbines replace.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
If Coca-Cola moves out of Victoria to another state will the products be carted back to Victoria by Unicorn carts and/or wind-powered carrier (land yacht)?
Sail Wagon
260
What happens when the waggon “goes about”?!
60
Whoops!
20
What happens when the waggon doesn’t go about- link
40
… the load shifts from one side to the other. If it’s done fast enough, a capsize can occur.
20
Forgive my wild imagination but now I have pictures in my head of Vic going “on the wagon” and I expected AA meetings next. But maybe it couldn’t hurt if you want out from under a bad situation to have some sort of withdrawal support system in place when the movers and shakers find out the economy of the whole state is collapsing as it certainly must if the wealth creators all leave.
Just thinking maybe some sort of a simulation game would keep the movers and shakers all happy while you put things back together. They could keep on fiddling with things they shouldn’t fiddle with but it would all be harmless. Everybody wins… …naw, never work, Roy. Go back to sleep. 😉
10
Dan has just such an announcement in place, just waiting.
We have these wonderful plans for a new Stadium.
Tony.
30
😉
00
I never expected that offthe-wall comment to get even one green thumb much less a reply.
Good luck on the stadium.
00
I also have problems with this quoted figure. At 100% efficiency, that’s only 3.38 kW per home. As Graeme has pointed out in 1.4, actual efficiency is much lower, so if we work on 50%, that’s only 1.7 kW a home. Of course it all depends on whether the figure quoted was actual output – if it was, then we are back to 3.38 kW/home.
60
you are confusing kW and kWh
3.38 kW per home would suggest 80+kWh per home per day !
An “average home” consumes an “average “ of less than 1.0kW. (<24kWh per day)
10
If Coca-Cola quits the drinking toast in Victoria will be
“If we had some coke
We could have a rum and coke
If we had some rum”
70
Yep homes, always the comparison, what about industry, how many factories, businesses, hospitals can that run? A home without power is an inconvenience for most people. Industry/businesses without power are going to go broke, kill people, or close up shop.
90
Yes. But there is a very real additional benefit to the recipient state in that more of its CO2 will be used in the manufacture of the bubbles in the coke, hence it will be able to claim it’s reducing its “Carbon” footprint. Which means Victoriastan will have doubly shot itself in the foot, firstly by losing the jobs and most importantly by increasing its partial pressure of CO2, hence creating a much bigger “Carbon” footprint. Albeit, with two holes through it, or them, if they happen to shoot themselves through their two left feet.
Perhaps Peter Fitzroy could “go to the source” and find the Ace in the hole to prove me wrong?
(He’ll need to think critically about this to “get it”).
11
Even I’m confused so he’s got no hope.
10
Yes but. There’s a grid.
If prices go up in Victoria, prices will go up in NSW..
Blackouts? We’ll soon see.
10
There seems to be a direct correlation between the wind generation and the “backup” gas turbines. That is always a useful graph. Helps support the one showing the more wind/ solar, the more expensive power is for the consumer.
And the AEMO has the rule that SA has to have at least 3 GTs running to keep grid inertia. If Torren Island closes, how will that be maintained?
170
SA has a project under way to install synchronous condensers that do not require much energy relative to inertia provided. They can also provide voltage control at the connected node.
10
If they had kept their coal power station, they could have used the old generators to provide spinning inertia, as they do in Huntington Beach in the U.S.
50
Correct.
Discussions in the office have settled on SAs big battery ( sounds like a Noddy and Big Ears adventure…..) as being primarily a “foul up fix”
30
And that battery is about to get bigger!!
…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/sa-big-battery-set-to-get-even-bigger/11716784
…
If it’s so good, why isn’t it a straight, unsubsidised commercial decision and cost?
Cheers
Dave B
60
Um…isnt that like rewarding poorly behaved children for thier bad behaviour?
So what is it now…9 % of the grid capaciy for 1 hour…?
But the battery will degrade over time, so in a few years with will be 20% lower.
Dumb idea…..only making a bad situation worse.
Oh well…..I guess if someone needs to charge their phone…..
30
Synchronous condensers, especially if they don’t have a flywheel attached, don’t add that much inertia. A 200MVA one is equivalent to maybe 75MW GT and 40MW condensing steam turbine. And they consume significant power – maybe 3-5% of their rating, especially when transformer losses are considered.
Old generators can do the task, but their losses are higher.
So SA consumers will be paying even more money for a problem of their own making. Virtue signalling is getting pretty expensive.
70
More to the point what happens when it goes black and there is no load at Portland.
Hint, this is the end point.
110
Looks like “load” won’t be a problem. Energy Aust is going to shut Yallourn and Alinta Loy Yang B.
50
That will fix the problem wont it…idiots….
SS Titanicus Australis
50
SS = Sinking Ship
20
Chris,
The gas fired Diesel Generators (12, able to produce 211 MW) are stable power supply.
These are for use when the wind don’t blow..or when it gets too bloody hot
in South Aus and Victoria at the same time…
They should cop plenty of use this Summer..
80
In the case of Perth metro area, backup gas generators are used to provide additional power at peak times. Most of these backup generators are located along the north-south gas pipeline that runs through the Perth metro area, so the system works effectively without adding substantially to the energy costs.
10
I Appoligize up front for this off topic post.
JoNova,
I’ve been a fan for over a decade.
Yesterday was the 10th anniversary ClimateGate.
Did they learn anything — did we?
Perhaps we all need more “Cow Bell”.
Best Regards,
John
180
Look at the WUWT article for a very nice summation John.
20
Be thankful you are not getting the government you are paying for. Just think if government used all the money they cause to be spent efficiently and effectively. There would be nothing left alive in Australia and not a building standing to house anyone if they were still alive. As it is, some of you can hang on with your bloody finger nails. For others, it is getting more and more difficult.
If the anti-Trump crowd gets their way, we in the US will be following soon.
140
Have you seen the fool Adam Shiff has made of himself? Let them impeach, Trump will kick them clear to Pluto and back again. The House may be dishonest but in the Senate it will be for real by the book and he whole country will be watching.
20
Yes, the government should nationalise the coal plants and then throw masses of taxpayer funds to keep these inefficient and unreliable operations going, seeing as they are unable to compete on the free market.
350
We don’t have a free market.
330
If we had a free market there would be much fewer wind and solar farms.
390
Without subsidies there would be no wind and solar farms.
Not one.
They are expensive, unreliable and they destabilise the grid.
170
Mr Nutbag I was under the impression that the Feds were getting out of subsiding renewable next year. If true then new Hele coal fired power stations will compete, with a promise of no intermittency or fear of blackouts.
340
Roof top subsidies will definitely go.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/accc-new-push-to-end-rooftop-solar-subsidies-appears-to-get-support-from-taylor-67033/
170
Before Hazelwood was shut down, those turbines had been running at over 90% of their rated capacity for several months straight.
Now look at some data for wind farms shall we. 😉
Germany is a good example.
If you can read a chart, you will see that for 50% the time, they were running below about15% of rated capacity. And 80% of the time, they were running at below 30% of their capacity.
Now, which is the more reliable resource?
370
Its hard to understand comments from people like SN who clearly dont understand that fully depreciated coal fired generators (most of them) can produce power at wholesale prices of 8c/kwhr or lower, including necessary ongoing maintenance costs, when all government taxes and levies are removed.
330
He he…you have to be patient with milenials….youthful enthusiasm and all….
60
It’s not even as bad as that, most cost analysis price the fuel at the cost to buy in the market, but if you have your own coal mine the cost is actually the marginal cost of digging it up, costs can be as low as 2-4c per kWh.
It’s the same if you mine your own gas.
20
Nutbag what you talking about !!?
GeoffW
30
There is anger in his voice, as exhibited by a sarcastic tone.
Reading between the lines, Nutbag is saying I don’t care what it costs. Its the price we have to pay to save the planet.
70
Unreliable? Were have you been for the last 50 years. They are as reliable as any machine (probably more than most) given proper maintenance and eventual replacement.
110
There is a growing trend for economically stressed citizens to leave high tax/low government service states in the US.
In various states, there are a few more levels of government fiscal activity & an impossible looming insolvency in many state & municipal bond systems which will NEVER cover either infrastructure maintenance or expected retirement entitlements. .
However here, given the madness of renewables, particularly in SA, ACT, Vic & Tas; Australia will not be far behind.
It will probably lead to some kind of mini Real Estate boom in retiree hotspots with lots of medical infrastructure, fishing spots & cafés.
If only the ACT was genuinely living on it’s renewable based power supply & absolutely dis-connected from the grid. There would be hulks of electric vehicles abandoned all around the streets.
That bubble of conceited self-righteous indignation & virtue signalling would rupture under the immutable weight of reality in under a week.
360
Please, let it happen.
150
Well one guy at work bought a Tesla 3. I asked him how it would go with a flooded creek crossing….probably it would go ….flash…bang.
EVs are niche vehicles for a heavily urbanized population with zero practicality really beyond urban spaces. That asumes of course the reliable power exists to charge them of course….
When are the grownups going to be in charge again?
250
Speaking of Tesla and Flash…Bangs: Tesla Supercharger catches fire at a Wawa store in New Jersey
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/18/tesla-supercharger-fire-at-wawa-store-in-new-jersey.html
40
Interesting article. Apparently they have 8, 120KW chargers at that Wawa. That’s almost 1 MW or enough power for nearly 300 homes. In other words you have a small town worth of power being channeled through 1 convenience store.
40
QLD Govt has this campaign, “If it’s flooded, forget it.”
i.e. don’t drive into flood waters. However, a Prius can not be driven into flood waters either, their front-wheel-drive electric engines fill with water and fail permanently. But the bigger problem with a Prius is that it will float away in as little as 25 cm of water, which is a real problem in the tropics. Once an owner realizes that will happen, fine, they won’t make that mistake again. Pity about the resulting $55,000 lump of junk.
40
“Pity about the resulting $55,000 lump of junk”
And that’s before it got wet !
40
More of a pustule I think.
110
I just hope the “Bubble” meets Australian Standard for Prophylactics, but sooner or later it will get messy.
/ sarc.
30
“Bring out yer dead”
– Monty Python
20
Those of us who live around Newcastle know what sort of off beat thinking and activism infest our local government.
That activism provoked a meeting on the shores of Lake Macquarie during which locals gave examples of the devastation to lives that had occurred as a result of green activism.
Words like malicious, heartless, obsessive and self absorbed may be a start at describing the actions of councils but that the abuse of ordinary people by green martinets can happen in Australia is absolutely mind blowing.
The current post by Jo is Brilliant.
It exposes the capacity of “Elected Representatives” to live their Dreams and destroy the lives of individuals, the state and the nation without being touched by the law to account for damage done.
How did we get to this point.
KK
251
Mid Coast Council north of Newcastle just announced that the Deputy Mayor, a former public service employee with no climate related qualification, has signed a letter to the Federal Government calling for more direct action on a climate emergency.
80
I have emailed the Deputy Mayor to explain why I am a sceptic, about the real political agenda, etc.
And asked he to detail the climate emergency in reply.
100
Also point out the possibility of legal action for acts involving false representation…..
Creating panic needlessly is a stupid idea….
70
Thorcon is five years away from parking two of these stations in Indonesia…1GW of power @$72.00/MW…still twice the price as old coal but far better than new wind with infinite reliability. You could park two of these in Port Augusta, including desal water!
70
Thanks for that link,
And fascinating that Indonesia is the first, or at least an early, applier of the technology.
I’ve forwarded the link to my political representatives at state and federal level, with a request for an objective evaluation for use in Oz.
Cheers
Dave B
50
Thorcon == LFTR nuclear technology.
It’s the way to go.
20
Interesting approach. Thanks for the link.
00
Conrade Dangerous Dan would be cheering….the aim of decimation of the middle class through engineered evonomic collapse is now within reach…….
Ah Communism….degraded, degenerate and morally filthy one day…..the same the next.
.
150
Communism isn’t the problem here, not yet anyway. The spread of mad Greens policies throughout the West are. After all communist China is building hundreds of coal fired power stations and dozens of nuclear ones to boot. I’m certainly not appeasing to communism let alone supporting it; it’s very bad. We need to focus on the real enemy; the lunatics bordering on terrorists in the West. Of course one could argue the left in the West are a fifth column of the communists overseas. There is no evidence of that. Until one can show there is we should stick to the facts. If anything I prefer to call say the Greens fascists not communists, not that there is much difference.
180
Victoriastan is effectively communist in its running dow of the middle class…
50
Well it’s not ‘evidence’ but really this guy in 1983 was pretty accurately predicting the state the west is in now. Harvesting the seeds sown in the 60’s. It’s a bumper crop !
Vladimir is rolling on the floor, kicking his legs in the air, laughing hysterically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-cWbq1PoSw&t=1859s
70
Chinese Communists may be building a new coal-fired station every week, but that doesn’t make the anti-coal lobby in Australia non-Communist.
Note how every proposed “solution” to “climate change” involves more regulation and control of the masses? Never once will you hear the Greens advocate the strategy that has created the standard of living that we currently enjoy…… always it is more government control.
Why not? It only killed 100 million people in the 20th century.
Communists aren’t anti-coal. They are anti-you-making-your-own-choices.
110
‘Communists aren’t anti-coal. They are anti-you-making-your-own-choices.’
China is communist in name only, they have four economic classes.
In a material sense their society is developing a Western orientation, to help them assimilate into the new world order. Do not be afraid, Beijing is happy to leave our democracy intact.
If the Victorians sign up to the Belt and Road they will need a coal fired power station to run the bullet trains and illuminate the new satellite cities.
30
Now if only China would order Comrade Dan to build some coal-fired power stations..
10
Yes, and they openly advocate that Capitalism is the real crux of the ‘climate problem’, and the solution is eliminating it.
What would that be then?
40
Those more familiar with the market than I, may like to comment….. but I’m wondering what would happen if generators were able to offer a 24/7 contract for supply at a set price for a month, quarter or year?
Reliability has a value of its own, but as I understand the current market, being limited to a spot price denies customers the ability to lock in their supply.
Yes, I understand that the single distribution system poses restrictions. My thought being that unless this level of supply can be offered and bid for, the market is not genuinely free and competitive.
111
Bugga! Bloody thumb! All for this,PW. Base load coal can deliver power, on schedule, a week or a month from now at a set price. This single point of argument is lost on the consumer..five minute spot prices…smacks of induced constructed volatility and unreliability. Not the way any engineer would run a system.
160
Some wind farms have sold their entire output at a fixed price. Many large consumers buy at a fixed price and leave the retailer to manage the risk through forward trades. Dispatchable generators have complex predispatch pricing to maximise profit.
50
PeterW,
Welcome to a Grubbnmnt sanctioned Ponzi Scheme….
The AEMO and the NEM…
Foisted on us when they put in the state inter-connectors.
These were needed to shore up power in states that were
chasing the “ruinable” dream..
And we are ALL suffering for their “seeming”.
GOD, help Australia.
90
That’s what is done now, PeterW. it is the reason spot prices are going to zero during peak generation times for renewables. All distributors lock in their average power requirement in what is a standard hedge (airlines do it with fuel, iron ore users do it to guarantee supply). When you have excess demand, you buy on the spot market (enter here the arbitrageurs), when you have excess, the price drops to less than zero, as the hedge (which guarantees production) drives everyone else out of the market. As you might guess, the cheapest hedge is with coal as they have to keep their plants running 24/7, and they can easily guarantee supply. Renewables can try, but they have to buy that guarantee from either coal or gas, making it more costly.
219
I’m a little familiar with hedging …… when selling agricultural produce it theoretically means guaranteed income levels, but as the traders always build their risks and costs into their margins, in the long term it means lower overall income to the producer.
But that’s a different scenario.
In this case, the traders can hedge, but not the consumers.
It’s probably inherent in having a single supply grid, but as I read it, a consumer cannot go to a producer for a contracted secure supply at a flat price. That biases the market against those that can produce reliably at a low price, but not at the lowest price sometimes charged by unreliable.
The alternative would be to build your own power supply and be off the grid.
80
the distributors are the consumers. But for households it is simple. “Trigger Warning”
Buy a battery pack, buy the CSIRO predictive software (it is really quite clever) and optionally/optimally some solar panels “end Trigger Warning”
The software allows you to top up the battery from the cheapest source 24/7. The cleaver bit is that it scans the weather forecast and takes the appropriate action, eg drain the batteries if tomorrow is to be sunny (if you have solar) or top them up at night when power is cheap.
222
Ok so long as someone else pays for the battery and equipment, right 😉
When are YOU doing this off your own funds, ?
102
PF’s chopper in that statement above
“The cleaver bit “
21
Perhaps we should go one step more and allow China to buy Victoria so they can start building coal and nuclear power stations thus proving ample power for other states.
200
We didn’t move to Victoria in order to become de facto Chinese…
50
Annie
You could follow that Victorian number plate slogan
“Victoria. The place to be from”
100
Victoria – former home of climate policy refugees….
30
Why do you think I call it Victoriastan Annie , we are already a communist state and fly the Chinese communist flag on some government buildings on special occasions.
Dangerous Dan has signed up to China’s belt and road scheme .
51
So in the two years post Hazelwood what has happened? As Jo points out lack of capacity is driving prices with even the the big battery in South Australia getting in on the act
https://reneweconomy.com.au/cheaper-cleaner-smarter-how-wind-solar-and-batteries-are-changing-australias-grid-98324/
Do we have an energy policy? We have an energy minister to implement one and we have had six years to develop one (counting from the time Hazelwood first mooted that it would close). Interestingly renewables are also relocatables, if their market tanked they could be packed up and moved somewhere else.
Like sectors like banking, aged care, and health care, we are seeing signs of market failure, which is why there are calls for the Government to do something.
Just saying
128
“Interestingly renewables are also relocatables, if their market tanked they could be packed up and moved somewhere else.”
Leaving a 50 ton block of concrete in the ground. !! Environmentally sound 😉
No PF, they are equally useless and UNRELIABLE wherever they are put.
Yes, the governments should be putting out tenders for new HELE powered coal power stations and getting rid of the RET and any associated anti-carbon idiocy.
That is the only way to restore RELIABILITY.
240
Read this
https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-renewables-grid-separates-from-nem-lights-dont-go-out-14232/
and get back to me
125
Propaganda from the renewable scammers.
Sad you swallow it so easily.
SA has nothing left to provide power to.
210
Surely SA is an anomaly that is being put up as though it is standing alone. It is a tiny market – 6% of the popn, probably less of the industry. It has got rid of most of it’s ‘expensive’ backup capacity, and is able to rely on Queensland tax payers to bail it out when the SHTF, and it gets hot. It survived a disconnection from the national grid, on an October evening, when they were lucky enough to have good winds. Batteries are chiefly there to make money, by riding spot prices up and down. Their stand alone capacity is not going to last very long at all, if they had to support the whole grid ?
Are the big wind and solar farms subsidies counted into the cost of their generation, or is that just an amount that vanishes into thin air?
120
Furiously,
you must be referring to the State Wide black out in 2016.
I was there, visiting.
For hours, no one knew what had happened.
The “good winds” were a bit too good. The “farms”, in turn, could not cope with the high winds
and went into “survival mode”, ie, stopped producing which brought down the whole system.
The inter-connectors also couldn’t cope. A couple of towers even fell over, for want of a
better term.
This happened late in the arvo and most places had no power till well into the next day.
It was almost like the people expected this to happen.
Also remember, the SA Grubbnmnt also blew up their coal fired power stations. Well, you’ll never use those again, will you.
Yep, nothing like relying on good old reliable….wind. As long as you’ve got 100% back-up
of RELIABLE power (NOT batteries) that can be “switched on” in an instant. Even though
this power is Expensive.
110
And lots of diesel powered electricity.
110
Deluded. Also irrational.
51
Meant for Peter.
51
Hi Andy, Those concrete blocks weigh 950 tons not 50 tons.
120
Only 50 tons Andy? I believe the concrete bases for the newer larger wind towers can weigh 1000-1500 tonnes.
110
Up to 10 metres each side, and 10-15 metres deep. They require up to 60 truckloads of concrete, and will remain forever as environmental disasters blighting our landscape as monuments to man’s stupidity.
130
or-right, I typed in the wrong number, sorry 😉
60
To say nothing of the problems of trying to dispose of the composite blades. In the U.S. they are digging huge trenches to bury them – hardly an environmental solution. Cannot see the land ever being used again for farming or urban development.
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Instead of burying the blades in trenches why not burn them to put some badly needed CO2 back into the environment?
40
‘Do we have an energy policy?’
Angus is onto it.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/energy-ministers-tolerance-being-tested-201404050–spt.html
50
HIs policy seems to be ‘don’t make me angry’ shame really. back in the day we had politicians with skills, like John Howard, who appears to be the last of that line. Now we have bread and circuses – the big stick energy to whack delinquent energy companies with – as one example, and yet another failure
Great Caesar’s Ghost, just saying
318
Have to agree with you there Peter.
31
Angus just needs to lose his rag and put a rocket up the relevent people. Job done.
Old school management…..
70
So the Angry Angus Policy would look like this
1 – don’t make me angry
2 – now you are going to get it
3 just wait until your father gets home
seems hauntingly familiar, but not adult now is it
216
The states must decide on their energy mix, Angus will advise them to get their act together.
70
Only thing greenies might respond to.
They are children, after all. !!
Arguing rationally with a greenie is not a possibility, as you continue to show.
120
Whatever works…..if they needs 4 rounds of the kitchen table to drag them back into line, so be it.
I seem to recall getting roused on as a kid and it stopped me doing stupid stuff. Now however every child wins a prize and you wonder why people cant make sound decisions…..
100
Peter F:
I went to that link and am quite unimpressed. If that is the standard of (wishful) thinking you believe in then you will need the services of the Fairy Godmother, with the Tooth Fairy supplying backup.
130
The bit in the first link was about how the battery could make money by arbitrage (buying cheap and selling dear)
And this is more about reliability
https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-renewables-grid-separates-from-nem-lights-dont-go-out-14232/
But back to my main point – where is the policy? A lot of the coal fleet is old, brown coal which is the cheapest, is on the chopping block first.
This blog is right to call it out. We have a mess, and it needs t be sorted.
218
Batteries are just fiddling about the edges.
The lack of coherent energy policy will eventually produce Sovereign Risk.
Would you want to be the energy minister that caused that?
And before anyone pooh poohs the sovereign risk idea- energy underpins everything
This is why Dangerous Dan would be gleeful watching Victoriastan becone a tin pot Marxost dictatorship like Zimbabwe…..
130
Peter F:
How the hell can buying electricity at a low price and selling it at a high price do anything more than keeping the price high. The battery installers will have to make sure of that to pay for (expensive) batteries.
And that applies to Wholesale electricity prices. If they have come down in the last few years why haven’t RETAIL prices?
As for the claim that South Australia runs on 50% renewables, that was for 5 MINUTES one day recently. What about the other 99.9991% of the time? And even if SA did run at 50% renewables all year that would represent (maybe) 0.01% of World CO2 emissions, when those emissions are going up at around 3-4% EACH YEAR. And likely more when African countries startup their new coal fired plants.
WOW! That will make a difference sarc/
130
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/17/fossil-fuels-dominate-global-energy-democrats-try-to-conceal-suppress-this-reality/
Fossil fuels will continue to RULE for a long, long time.
CO2 emissions will continue to climb for many more years. Great News. 🙂
As a CO2 reduction woke meme, greenie idiotology is a complete and utter failure.
110
Thanks for making my point – If we had a policy, it might be different.
115
The only logical policy is to construct a new HELE power plant in each eastern state to replace the aging, but still very reliable old coal fired power stations we currently RELY on.
Policies relating to unreliables, will always give an unreliable supply. Dump those policies.
That is what Angus needs to do. Develop a strong policy, based on RELIABLE electricity supply
140
“and it needs t be sorted.”
And if the greenie idiotology and manic hatred of CO2 would get out the way,
… It would be sorted
120
Sounds more like the Fairy Stepmother?
10
Funny how when Labor States stuff things up the topic changes to Federal policy and “certainty”
80
How can the SA battery help consumers Peter? All the 30 MW available can do is to buy charging power at the going price rate, lose st least 10% to charge the battery, then sell the power back when the price is highest, again losing another 10%. All this does is benefit NEON, not the poor consumer.
70
Well, its primary function so far has been FCAS support, where apparently it has been very effective and also much needed with all the wind and solar fluctuations input to the grid.
It “trades” the power market also and makes its owners a pile of money there also.. to the point where they are currently expanding the Hornsdale battery by up to 50% !
https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/tesla-s-big-battery-to-grow-by-50pc-20191119-p53bv6
20
Couldn’t see the entire article Chad. Presume the 50% is to add to the 30 MW set aside for NEON to make a fortune off the poor consumers, not the 70 MW set aside for FCAS.
00
I can’t believe that Fitzroy would actually believe this.
There had better be a reference Fitzroy.
Tony.
250
Nope, can not be bothered.
219
That sounds like my 14 yo when she knows shes been cornered in an argument…..
150
Yep, evidence is something you never are bothered with.
Having zero evidence is your meme.
120
Maybe ZPF might be a better moniker?
Not zero power factor but Zero PF.
40
Link.
40
I’m not your personal Jesus, stop praying to me.
013
Peter Fitzroy,
I think that Jo has done you a terrible injury in allowing you to continue posting here.
Maybe she did it on purpose so that people could come to understand the real you which just doesn’t engage with reality nor respect other people.
KK
130
Zealots lose perspective and arguments, and are exposed for all to see.
100
KK et al, there is no requirement for references on this site. The fact that I link to so many is my all down to me. Now Anton is demanding that I do what he never ever asks any other contributor to do, that is – post a link. I don’t respond to threats, he can just as easily to a search, and, as I said, links are optional.
Now I try very hard, with reasonable success not to get baited, by the inflammatory and highly derogatory ad homs which are posted here, and I expect the same in return.
016
PF keeps digging deeper.
Refuses to back up his gibberish and nonsense
Exposure, scare of it he is.
Too late !!
Tugg Speedman would be proud of you, PF !
100
“and I expect the same in return.”
You do get your ad homs, and all your other garbage, reflected back at you.
Then you start crying !!
61
It’s just So unfair.
40
References
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYW3qng78E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl6fyhZ0G5E
09
Yep that’s where you get your information from.
Science.. NOPE !!!
92
Your scientific reference? OK. 😉
You are exposing yourself, PF.
91
Note where Fitzroy says this, when asked for a reference:
This is the reference we are looking for, and note that it’s exactly as I said.
Don’t feed this troll. When it comes to electrical power matters, anything about it, he knows (less than) nothing.
Tony.
201
So are you as the arbiter of references going to do the same for everyone else? Just asking.
015
I can’t believe you fell into that so easily.
Again, just as I said, Fitzroy didn’t even bother to take the reference.
Peter, you’re the only one here who calls me (and everyone else who contributes here) a liar, (every time) and demands references to what I say.
I think that by now the readers here know I’m not lying to them.
Your game is just that ….. a game.
Tony.
190
“Your game is just that ….. a game”
An emulation of Tugg Speedman playing Simple Jack.
50
Given the average age of the readers here, this should be common knowledge. If you are not one or been one you’d know one. If not find a grey nomad and ask them about them.
07
Conversely the inverse might be applicable after 6 p.m. most days.
Did you know that there are often fifty two Mondays in a full year.
A PhD student at UNSW discovered that last year and wrote a paper on it.
Unfortunately I lost the link.
KK
50
Lacking industry, scale-ability, services.
10
Sounds like the solar panels on an RV. Up-scaling might have some issues
30
That was wrt 13.6 and
“Interestingly renewables are also relocatables”
10
Which industry will be next to leave Victoria? Portland Aluminium smelter consumes about 10% of Vic electricity and is living off government subsidies.
From the AFR: “The potential closure next year of Alcoa’s loss-making Portland aluminium smelter is emerging as another risk to the operation of EnergyAustralia’s Yallourn coal generator in Victoria, which is already under threat from the state’s aggressive renewable energy and emission reduction targets”.
But of course the Victorian government blames those unreliable coal generators.
And in The Australian today: Blackouts risk to force states’ hand on coal.
Can anyone spot the problem?
After all, Portland wind farm has a capacity of 148 MW, and not far away Macarthur wind farm has a capacity of 420 MW, so between them on paper enough “cheap” electricity to power the smelter. Except that, on average, they deliver only 170 MW and on occasion close to zero. So backup reliable power must be available. Enter Mortlake gas generators 2×283 MW (one of which is down for repairs, hopefully back up in time for summer) that can provide 100% backup for the local wind farms. However the cost of electricity is therefore the combined cost of the wind farms plus the gas generators. Renewables are cheaper? Pull the other one.
230
It is not simply the cost of wind plus backup. The backap has to be ready to go at any time due to wind variability, the wind need extra transmission lines that are rarely used at their capacity, likewise the gas connections, the wind will sometimes be curtailed so does not operate at potential. The wind does not provide the system inertia so this has to be sourced by paying high inertia plant to stay connected or build synchronous condensers.
The gas plant will also use its market power to maximise its profit when wind is not blowing. Price can be way above cost.
90
It seems that the States and their green ideology are at odds with Federal strategy in getting baseload reliability and lower costs to industry and the consumer. The only way around this in my view is for the commonwealth to insert itself and fund at least 3 or 4 HELE plants and somehow guarantee access. It’s only fair after all, as Morrison has gifted the the renewable sector 500 million.
60
Go on a war footing.
Scrap all non-hydro renewables. Ban imported diesel for mainstream power and refuse all lithium products above the size of what’s needed for hybrid cars. Don’t just halt renewables. Scrap them. Yes, even at phenomenal cost while the reserve banks which invent money to invent “markets” connive with the permanent state to punish us.
Defy the fops, poltroons, degenerates and deviants of “world opinion” with their fake tans and fake money and fake markets. To do this means risking failure ahead of the failure they have programmed for us. But it also means a slight chance of survival as opposed to no chance at all.
Stop recoiling, retreating, compromising. While we do that they get to condition new generations through their refuse media.
With what’s left of free speech ignore all conditioning from all sources. Recognise Fabianism when it shows up in a trans-humanist or trans-whatever movie, a nudge-nudge report on a weather disaster, a TV “survival” show or a solemn pronouncement by an anti-pope. Turn off the TV, walk out of the church.
Remember, the new collectivist enemy is just the old collectivist enemy in a suit. They preach “ordo ab chao”, order out of chaos, but all they can ever achieve is chaos out of chaos. It was ever thus with the gnostic elites. Their conceit is colossal, their contempt for humanity is colossal…but their self-loathing is greater. They have to bungle, have to fail. It is just a question of how much damage they get to do.
Stop globalism. Do tradition, family, privacy, property. Do coal.
230
Hi Mosomoso, agree with your comment, but this line is puzzling: “It was ever thus with the gnostic elites”.
KK
20
Their God is their anticipated selves, the means of their elevation is a mix of special knowledge (eg non-observational science), exclusive, contradictory and confusing ritual (primitivism and nature worship combined with constricted, synthetic living) and a willingness to transgress (the unborn are good targets, the just born would be better).
In a word, Luciferians. And right now they have the running of the shop.
90
That’s what I took it to mean.
Implying that “Christianity” is better than the primitive Gnostics?
🙂 KK
20
Um, the Gnostic Gospels are Coptic Christian.
30
Interesting, wasn’t aware of that.
00
Maybe there’s hope for us yet.
00
Yep pretty much.
The “special knowledge” is always “hidden knowledge” which is the hallmarks of a cult, in this case a Satanic cabal.
30
From my recent reading of some political history covering the period 500 BC to 1500 A.D. I am led to think that the sentence might have more realistic if it was :
“It was ever thus with the Christian elites”.?
I like the good that Christianity has brought to the world but am a bit worried about the business/management side of things.
KK
30
I’m always quick to point out that Roman Catholicism doesnt represent actual Christianity, it represents itself as a pagan cult with a christian veneer over it.
The hierarchy and elitism created by the RC church is what gave Christainity in general a bad name, this being also compounded by the Inquisitions and poor behaviour associated with it. The problem was Constantitine ( himself a supposed Christian, but historically likely really still a sun worshipper ) made the RC church the official vehicle for both religius but also administrative matters, thus garnering priests with way too much power.
I suspect had the Apostles been alive then they would have rapidly distanced themselves from the RC church and denounced loudly it as a pagan entity…..
40
Very much agree, they eliminated the Christian church to hijack its corpse. But having known a lot of hard-core Christians I came to the conclusion they were no better. The aspirational ‘pure’ and ‘true’ can’t help but invite and advocate ever-increasing commitment to zealotry, in those perceived or even falsely-accused of being ‘luke-warm’ and thus in eternal danger of failure, which is one of the most noxious, deluding and harmful types of self-justified mental abuse there is to inflict on people. The only good thing to come out to that is you realize belief is stupid and believers are not your friend.
And you’re cured of belief.
30
As WX says; “And you’re cured of belief.”
Then maybe,
“And you’re cured by insight.” and awareness.
I was lucky to experience a very low key branch of Christianity with a very simple message.
In the last two years I have been drawn back to the same church and found the message transformation to be extraordinary.
People are doing great work in the area but some individuals have a very strong Literal attachment to scripture which is limiting.
I’ve also been to C of E and the people are great but the message is very hard line.
Life is complex.
KK
KK
20
“poltroons” What a great word. I haven’t heard that for a long time. Good work!
20
Off topic
Israel Folau has a new theory on the cause of wildfires.
It is God‘s wrath due to broad acceptance of homosexuals.
People promoting the greenhouse gas fairy tale condemn Folau`s belief as silly. I wonder what other religions believe is the cause of the fires?
30
How is it wind farms can say, yes, yes, yes, we can provide power more cheaply than anything else, and when they put it on the market it gets a fixed price? And in the middle of the day, if prices go negative, customers are paid to take the power, but the big renewable farms will still be paid their fixed price. I wonder who’s paying for that?
60
Google
AEMC spot and contract markets
They provide considerable detail on the trading options.
10
OK, checked that out, and came up with this :-
“Power Purchase Agreements: a broken link
The other main type of contract currently in the market is a Power Purchase Agreement.
A PPA is a long term agreement between a generator and a purchaser (a retailer or a consumer) for the sale and supply of energy. Wind and solar farms often use PPAs. Typically this involves the wind or solar farm selling renewable energy certificates to the purchaser at a fixed price.
Unlike financial derivative contracts, PPAs reward the seller for generating as much electricity as possible at any time. There is no incentive for the seller to generate more or less electricity when the power system needs it – that is, when spot prices are high or low.
In this way, PPAs break the link between financial incentives and the physical needs of the system.”
It looks like a handy thing to have. What does that actually mean to the retailers? They just have to work out their prices and hope their sums are right, and the ups and downs are covered? Thank god for computers.
20
Wait for the usual suspects to trot out their “renewable energy is getting cheaper and cheaper and is now the cheapest it’s ever been”. Never seen power prices drop with a transition to renewables. It’s easy to tell the people power prices are dropping if they drop from $100/kwh to 96. It remains BS.
70
I suppose the next target of the Greens will be the farmers. It’s easy. Just make life too expensive on the land, now by jacking up the diesel costs massively. Then all the forests will be saved and the cows and horses and pigs and chickens can be set free to roam.
There is something surreal about the idea that we can live in a world without manufacturers or electricity or farmers or fences or borders or the police or even a defence force. A non violent paradise where everyone can dance and sing and import their food and goods from overseas and sell all the farming to China.
Luckily Victoria does not have a lot of miners. Nasty bunch. We are keeping our gas and oil and coal and gold in the ground where it belongs and making the high country off limits so it burns as nature intended.
No unemployment as everyone works for the government and the government just taxes us all more to pay the wages. Free houses. Free wages. Dan’s wonderland in Victoria.
It goes to show you do not have to be clever to get to the top if you are in the Labor party.
Dan Andrews who never had a job outside politics and joined primary school teachers Joan Kirner and Steve Bracks and teacher John Brumby. Steve taught swimming to children. John Brumby did have an economics degree like Jay Weatherill in South Australia who managed to cripple the state completely by blowing up power stations and paying massive subsidies to pretend to run smelters. He even paid $100Million for a battery. John Brumby paid $800million for a pipeline which was never used. And who knows how much his desalination plant will cost in the end, never used. $20Billion?
Just like Alcoa in Victoria where it has not made sense to make aluminum for the last decade and each worker is subsidized $80K a year by more secret payments.
Australia, where politicians shut down everything to please the Green voters. It will soon be a park. You can start frolicing now. You may as well. Or join the Greens and get a public service job in the council where the average salary is twice the Australian average and no one does any work. They refuse to recognize Australia day but take the day off anyway. Great bunch.
190
Utopians are so certain that they are going to bring in paradise on earth, that it is worth paying any price……. as long as other people do the paying.
That is why utopians in government killed 100 million of their own people. Omelette, eggs….. it’s how they do the maths.
50
Sounds like Maos China…..or Pol Pot….
40
The good news is that NSW farmers are now safer than the rest. They now have “right to farm” legislation protecting them from animal-lib froot-loops, with possibly more to come.
“Aussie Farms” (the radical farm-invasion animal-lib group) had declared that any place with an animal behind a fence was committing animal cruelty. They even considered zoos and horse riding schools as places of animal cruelty. An interactive map of Oz with locations of all “installations” they deemed cruel was on display for some months (now deleted), accompanied by sat photos and on-the-ground photos obtained illegally by trespass. Photos included empty paddocks etc. This was to coordinate farm invasion activities.
Trespassers on farms that have biosecurity plans will be hit with $1000 on-the-spot fines, with the potential for fines of up to $220,000 under new trespass laws in NSW. Corporations could also face fines of $440,000 for inciting trespass on farms such as those conducted earlier this year. This is designed to specifically target the radical groups where there are coordinated attacks.
And yesterday the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission stripped “Aussie Farms” of its charity status amid outrage and teeth-gnashing from the unwashed.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australian-charities-and-not-for-profits-commission-strips-aussie-farms-of-charity-status/ar-BBWWbcu?ocid=spartandhp
In a further development, the mother of the group’s leader was also stood down from her role at DFAT pending an external investigation into her potential links to activist websites.
It’s a good start.
50
Pity the fines weren’t federally mandated for all states.
10
When are they (Aussie Farms) going to be declared a terrorist organisation?
It seems appropriate …
20
TdeF
“and the cows and horses and pigs and chickens can be set free to roam.”
Around the 1980’s there was finally recognition of the problem of the total grazing pressure of feral (now rangeland) goats and this resulted in a conference with representatives from Australia wide.
There was also a representative from New Zealand who spoke on their experience with total eradication on some of the off-shore islands. The take-home message was that eradicating the last 1% would take about as long and cost as much as eradicating the previous 99%.
40
I’m still amazed that the news of renewables powered 50% of the AEMO grid never had more coverage in the MSM .
It’s still occasionally popping up on Facebook but they always leave out the bit that exposes the absurdity of the claim and that was it was for about a ten minute period over a few days .
All the billions wasted so far on renewables and all they can manage is half the grid over a few days for ten minutes at half the supply , this is embarrassing.
Made even worse by the perfect conditions for solar and wind of very windy and sunny but also cool temperatures, something that doesn’t happen year in year out .
90
I thik all the leftist fools need to say they accept the outcome, then shut off all coal and let australia run on raw Fabianism dressed up as renewables.
The Lefties woul be tarred and feathered and run out of town that quick that thier heads woukd spin…although they would need police protection…and a lot of it.
50
Just as well, because it didnt happen, even for a few min.
As i pointed out at the time, the Grid demand at the claimed time (11:50 , 15/11/2019 ?) was 19 GW, with wind, solar and hydro, providing approx 6.0 GW max. (About 30%)
The “RE cheer team” tried to add in the Roof top solar generation estimate to the “Grid Demand” in order to suggest a 50% figure….
…but RT solar is not grid demand, it is self generation..(equivalent to reduced demand),..and it never gets near the “Grid”
100
Are you an electrical engineer? just asking, because only electrical engineers are allowed to post on matters relating to electricity – so says Anton
214
It does help to know something about something… before you start gibbering.
So far, you have failed to show.
60
“It does help to know something about something… before you start gibbering.
So far, you have failed to show.”
How about showing as being a gibbering expert on gibbering?
40
He does have gibbering down to a fine art. I’ll give him that. ! 🙂
70
“What I find interesting is how logically contorted the articles supporting environmentally correct programs are. I have yet to figure out if it is done purposely, assuming most people won’t see through the charade, or if the writers are so stupid that they don’t realize they are writing gibberish.What I find interesting is how logically contorted the articles supporting environmentally correct programs are. I have yet to figure out if it is done purposely, assuming most people won’t see through the charade, or if the writers are so stupid that they don’t realize they are writing gibberish.”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/18/whats-green-fake-and-employs-ten-times-as-many-people-as-the-fossil-fuel-industry/#comment-2850055
20
Reference.
Tony.
80
Poiter you are your own worst enemy , you have demonstrated you don’t even know what you pay for electricity at your home and now suddenly you’re an eggspert in all things electrical !
70
All energy is equal, but some energy is more equal than others.
30
Lily D’Ambrosio continues to prove she is incompetent and has no idea at all. AEMO cannot build plants either…
Where are the engineers of Victoria here? As an engineer myself the Victorian govts wild rush into renewables is an engineering disaster. As others here have pointed out renewables are intermittent and UNRELIABLE. You cannot run the grid on them – they are unsuitable for both baseload and peaking power.
The VIC govt has no plans at all for storage and the bill would be astronomical to install it. And there will still be significant periods in the year when there is no supply.
Instead they are relying on other states, in the end QLD, to supply if they can’t. This will drag them down when VICs grid collapses, which it will at some point in the future under this lack of leadership.
Please can we have some technically competent people to run Victoria, and Australia for that matter.
110
As stated, this will produce more demand on the Qld power stations and ultimately higher prices for QLDers as well. But don’t worry about that. We also have a Liebor govt up here that is smitten with the RE bug. I just wonder though, when we are in a similar position as SA and VIC…who the hell are we going to be able to call on to provide backup power?
80
They are also not something else very important. Not commandable.
It doesn’t matter how many horsepower you have in your electric car if the battery is flat or how many megawatts a windmill can produce if there is no wind or how many a solar farm can produce if it’s night.
What matters is whether the lift works when you are in it, whether the lights are on in the operating theatre and at the intersection and whether the airconditioners work in the old peoples home on a hot day. And for manufacturers as at Alcoa, whether the power ever goes off completely, as it did, freezing the pots solid. I doubt it will ever recover because fundamentally, it cannot make money because the price of electricity exceeds the price of aluminium, which is 90% electricity in cost.
100
As an aside on the economics of Alcoa, the best smelters use 13kwhr to produce 1kg or electricity and the average is 15kwhr/kg.
So at 4c a kw/hr to Alcoa in Portland, that’s 52c for 1kg of aluminum for electricity alone. No overheads or other costs of processing or capital. Add 6c for the RET and it’s 10c for a kg. The domestic Australian prices is $1 per kg, so there is no point making aluminum in Victoria as there is no profit at all. Also Portland is 500-600km from Yallourn and the losses used to be 50%. It was always pork barreling even by the Bolte government. But jobs mean votes and who cares?
So making aluminum at Portland is entirely fake.
Perhaps Alcoa are not paying the windmill carbon tax? Perhaps Alcoa, the Federal Government and the Victoria government met in New York and agreed to keep the jobs and make Aluminum at a loss? Perhaps they managed to fix a few pots and just pretend? It would be cheaper for everyone.
Similarly with Whyalla with steel and Port Pirie with lead. Hundreds of millions of dollars a year to pretend to manufacture, so the sheer tragedy of Labor government taxes on electricity is hidden. Labor used to mean jobs. Not with Climate Change. Not jobs in manufacturing or trucking or farming or electricity production or smelting. Teaching and nursing and Councils and Canberra. That’s why the CFMEU are being pushed out, not because they are so nasty.
There is every expectation that a lot of the heavy manufacturing which remains in Victoria and South Australia is completely fake, thanks to the Greens. Alcoa will soon announce the closure of all manufacturing in Australia. Because it doesn’t make sense and other governments have cheap electricity and voters too. In China the smelters are next to the power stations, of course, not 600km away.
The only plastics recycler in South Australia was forced to close and fire 35 people because they could not afford the electricity. That doesn’t matter because the councils just sell it on to people who promise sincerly to dispose of the plastic humanely. On the beaches of the Pacific in third world countries. Every cares so much, until they pass it on in a caring way. What you do not know can’t hurt you.
100
Sorry, 15c US means $A22c x 4c per kwhr means $A0.88 for 1kg of aluminum which sells for $1c. That was before the RET. It’s now probably $3.00 to make a product worth $1. Plus overheads, capital investment, wages, leases. I doubt making Aluminum (American spelling) has made economic sense for a decade and then the power went out. It’s all fake.
70
TdeF the Portland smelter was given massive subsidies by Turnbull and Andrews. $240 million to save 2000 jobs over 4 years or $30,000 per job per year:
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-20/alcoa-portland-announcement-expected-from-state-federal-govts/8196602
Despite this,it might still close. It’s basically no longer worth doing business in Australia.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/this-thing-is-in-trouble-future-of-alcoa-s-energy-hungry-smelter-looks-bleak-20191017-p531nr.html
70
‘Will the last one leaving the building please switch off the lights?’ _ ‘Oops, no need!’
100
It will close. Soon.
I wonder if they are really making aluminum at all? Like many industries they are living on subsidies and cannot see any other future because it makes no commercial sense to make aluminum or steel or lead or any metals in Australia.
30
It’s a disgrace that given that Australia is one of the most energy rich and minerals rich countries in the world that it’s not economically viable to manufacture metals here. That’s basically the definition of a Third World country.
50
Kurri Smelter: gone a victim of politics.
Tomago Aluminium, hanging by a thread. Another victim of political electricity.
Local shops and offices shutting, unsure of the main reason but electricity prices are way up there.
When you can import Dutch Croissants in the cargo hold of a 747 to sell locally that must surely say something highly pertinent about Australia’s costs of production.
That’s ridiculous that pastries are cheaper from Europe.
KK
30
Manufacturing costs for Aluminium in Au have been un-competitive for years.
12 yrs ago i was involved in sourcing Al coil stock which we had historically taken from Alcoa (Point Henry & Yenora mills) but even then it was very obvious we could import cheaper from Japan, Korea, even the US. Eventually the economics of the volumes being used (250k Tns) made it inevitable that we had to import .
sounds crazy , doesnt it ? We were within a few kms of the Alcoa rolling mill ,holding minimal consignment stock, but it was cheaper..even after extra packaging, specialist transport, increased stock holding facilities etc etc …to import from Japan !
We even ended up shipping our Al waste in containers to Korea, rather than the few kms back to Alcoa’s Sydney recycling plant !
So yes, something very sick with australian manufacturing, not just energy costs
10
Ahh, socialism. You get to save the world and you don’t even have to work!
90
This is prescient and on topic!
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/coal-on-life-support-unions-demand-closure-deal-at-yallourn-20191118-p53bpz.html
[trouble opening it? open in a private window]
01
and this too… same paper same day
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/highest-power-prices-at-night-mooted-to-ease-peak-time-demand-20191118-p53bps.html
9mods – is it the link that puts it into moderation?) [Not sure.] AZ
01
Good find ahhgee the second link is priceless , shutdown manufacturing then there’s no need for coal fired power generation .
Someone has a baldrick cunning plan .
30
More like hari kiri….living proof unions are dumb and infiltrrated with zealots….
40
Actually they are solving the problem of solar power not working later in the day, charge a punishing rate for late afternoon and make day rate cheaper .
Socialism at its finest .
10
GA asked:
Nah — it’s just your turn! 🙂
10
Test ran the generator today. Toying with tbe idea of a bigger one as it seems we may become more dependent on it, and selling the used one should be no problem.
50
Why don’t you get the bigger one and sell the power to the grid. Just kidding but suggest your price might be competitive with the ridiculous options being floated in VIC.
A friend whose husband works in the farming sector says that many farmers are now looking generate their own power as they can do so cheaper than buying off the grid…
40
They are talking about a new interconnector between NSW and South Australia – the deal is that we in NSW get to buy intermittent and expensive green energy from SA, and they get to buy reliable coal energy from NSW. The issue is that much of any excess power SA generates is done so when NSW is unlikely to need it, and they will want our electricity when we need it most (higher spot prices). Somehow green loons in both governments think that electricity prices for both states will go down.
90
Could they make it a one-way interconnect to NSW? I recently read that SA has an excess of Green energy and wouldn’t need any of that dirty NSW energy in return.
30
Seems the same as VIC-SA have been doing for some time. Worked well pre wind, now you often see it throttled back when Sa has to much wind and its not required.
30
Looks like the Warmists are panicking – pulling out every tiny “crisis” thay can find…..
Are people now wising up to the CO2 nonsense?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-11-19/nitrous-oxide-greenhouse-gas-increasing/11714240
“Emissions of nitrous oxide — a greenhouse gas 300 times more potent than carbon dioxide — are going up faster than we thought.
“It’s countries in east Asia and South America that are making the biggest contribution to the increasing emissions, according to a study published today in the journal Nature Climate Change.
“Natural sources of nitrous oxide include our oceans and rainforests, but it’s the human sources that are of most cause for concern — specifically agriculture, including nitrogen fertiliser use and livestock manure.
We’ve known for decades that nitrous oxide emissions are increasing, but since 2009 there has been a “substantial increase” in these emissions, said Pep Canadell, executive director of the Global Carbon project and an author of the new research.
“Most countries report their nitrous oxide emissions using the methodology of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. This approach assumes a linear relationship between the amount of nitrogen fertiliser used and the nitrous oxide emissions that come out at the other end, said Dr Canadell, who is also a chief research scientist at the CSIRO.
“”Using atmospheric data for the first time, we show that the [linear] relationship is not true when there are regions around the world that over-fertilise,” he said.
“”So there’s this threshold [of fertiliser use], and past that amount — which is well above and beyond what plants need — we find an exponential growth in nitrous oxide emissions.”
“Using atmospheric data and nitrous oxide concentrations from over 50 stations around the world, the scientists could model what emissions were expected from different regions.
70
More retards who think that we use more very bloody expensive fertiliser than we “need”…… as though it’s some kind of recreational activity.
Retards who’ve never tried to make a living from farming.
110
With no appreciation for what used to be known as “Scotchenomics” just imagine what their household budgets look like?
30
This nitrous oxide must be a very dangerous gas, which makes my tendency to laugh out loud while reading this all the more worrying.
I’m confused. But happy.
KK
60
I wonder when the warmists will discover that water vapour is a greenhouse gas. We’ll have to drain the oceans to deal with it.
70
I could run my car on NOS….but too big a shot and you melt pistons….
30
The Australian is reporting tougher energy and reliability standards to be imposed via the Federal Government to force State Governments to cooperate on coal and gas fired generator construction planning approvals.
70
I hope this isn’t something along the line of the ” big stick” publicity stunt.
ScoMo lost me when he continued the present market structure for electricity and then pretended to fix it with the Big Stick.
The energy market cover for blatant skimming akin to what goes on with our share “market” was and is an insult.
The proposal to fix it with the Big Stick was just laughing in our faces.
In the meantime there’s lots of government issue smoke outside today.
People who complained about the mild two day smoke problem of pre-emptive burns will now complain to their MsP that having smoke of such intensity for weeks at a time is baaaad and that they want the old system back. Won’t they???
Or will they just gloat and say: “we told you global warming is real!”.
Or maybe we haven’t closed down enough farming and industry.
KK
60
Keith the federal government responsibilities and state government responsibilities along with local government are by Constitution very different and without state/local cooperation for planning approval etc., power stations, dams, whatever cannot be actioned.
30
The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) was established to manage the National Electricity Market (NEM) and gas markets from 1 July 2009.
Created by the Council of Australian Governments (COAG) and developed under the guidance of the Ministerial Council on Energy (now the Standing Council on Energy and Resources), AEMO strengthened the national character of energy market governance by drawing together under the one operational framework responsibility for electricity and gas market functions, NEM system operations, management of Victoria’s gas transmission network, and national transmission planning.
On 1 July 2014, AEMO turned five. To commemorate the milestone, it assembled this animated timeline to reflect on AEMO’s evolution and maturity.
In 2015, AEMO took responsibility as the wholesale and retail market operator in Western Australia, integrating the functions of the Independent Market Operator (IMO), which had been created in 2004. Also in 2015, AEMO took responsibility for the WA Gas Bulletin Board and Gas Statement of Opportunities, which had been established for the Western Australian gas market through the IMO in 2013.
On 1 July 2016, the power system operations function also moved from Western Power to AEMO, establishing AEMO as the independent power system operator for Western Australia.
20
Comrades, the unions are on board in Victoria & elsewhere. offshore wind is the answer. for the right price, union workers can buid it. coal going to crash & burn. ETU: this Victorian Govt is the best Govt they’ve worked with. have won battles over jobs (being done by 170 French backpackers) on the solar farms around Mildura. all over the world, pension funds and workers’ money are pouring in for RE. go to Europe & Germany – their wind farms are second to none.
AUDIO: 27min40sec: 13 Nov: 3CR Community Radio: Putting ‘Justice’ in ‘Just Transition’
The issue of jobs and climate change is the topic of a new report released jointly by the AMWU the ETU the Gippsland Trades and Labour Council, the MUA and the Victorian Trades Hall Council…We were there.
https://www.3cr.org.au/sticktogether/episode-201911130830/putting-justice-just-transition
3CR features mainly talk-based programs with political (particularly trade unions) and environmental themes, as well as some music and community language-based programs. Today the station hosts over 130 programs presented by over 400 volunteers. – Wikipedia
Maritime Union of Australia: Building Offshore Wind in Australia
The MUA is campaigning to support the development of offshore wind in Australia.
In November, the MUA worked with the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union, the Electrical Trades Union, the Gippsland Trades and Labour Council and the Victorian Trades Hall Council to launch a report and campaign outlining how we can make the Australia’s first offshore wind farm, the Star of the South project off Victoria, the best possible example of a just transition…
The MUA advocates for the development of a stand-alone Offshore Renewables Act to facilitate the development of offshore renewable energy in Commonwealth waters, planned and regulated as part of the electricity system that these projects will be a part of…
A 2009 study showed that offshore wind would be viable in many parts of Australia…
In NSW the MUA is advocating for Newcastle to become a hub for the manufacture and construction of offshore wind to power the NSW electricity grid…
Read more about the MUA’s work on Just transition and the climate crisis here (LINK).
https://www.mua.org.au/building-offshore-wind-australia
40
“The MUA is campaigning to support the development of offshore wind in Australia.”
Can someone help me with this?
What’s 5% of AUD $14,000,000,000.
And does anyone know how many are on the mua executive team?
KK
30
But everything’s great really .
Just ask Alan Kohler.
…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/good-economic-news-so-why-is-the-outlook-so-gloomy-kohler/11681076
…
He’s surprised people aren’t spending, but seems to have not realised some of them are having difficulty paying their electricity bills. And he appears to have not noticed that NSW has had a couple of aluminium refineries closed. Giving job losses.
But he’s an economist, people and factories probably don’t matter.
And certainly no mention of power prices in this article.
Cheers
Dave B
40
Try a “Grumpy outlook”
https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2019/11/climate-clarity.html#more
20
And
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/11/19/ever-wonder-why-real-wages-are-falling/
10
People are having trouble dealing with the electricity bills for offices and small shops.
The main street in Hamilton is looking kinda empty lately.
This crash will be remembered for a long time.
KK
50
And remember the flow-on effect.
Most of those shops were rented.
So now the owners aren’t getting those funds.
Money is made round to go around.
Once you stop the flow of money, things start to collapse.
All part of the greenie agenda !!
90
Yes, each shop would have had a minimum crew of 4 who are no longer buying luxury goods.
Hunter street went first but that was inevitable because of the amazing Light Rail diversion by Beris and her predecessors who wanted to get attention off the “easy land” they had liberated for “friends”.
The word Albatross comes to mind, please can I have some more nitrous oxide!
KK
50
Victoria needs to kick Comrade Dan and his politburo out.
30
They had their chance at the election nigh on twelve months ago and now Dan’s corrupt regime is sitting pretty for another three years of the same mismanagement after which he’s banking on the Stockholm Syndrome returning Labor for a third term and so on ad infinitum.
40
AUDIO: 54min07sec: 18 Nov: ABC Big Ideas: Can better science communication help counter pseudo-science?
Presenter/moderator: Paul Barclay
The internet is awash with pseudo-science, often spread by people with little, or no, knowledge of science. Can improved science communication help to debunk bogus science?
Recorded at the Shine Dome in Canberra on October 25, 2019
Guests:
Professor Joan Leach – Director, Australian National Centre for the Public Awareness of Science, ANU
***Maja Horst – Professor of media, cognition and communication, University of Copenhagen
Darren Saunders – cancer biologist; Associate Professor, School of Medical Sciences, UNSW
Further information (LINKS):
Australian Science Communicators
Australian National Centre for the Public Awareness of Science
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/enhancing-public-awareness-and-knowledge-of-science/11694100
audio begins with Professor Joan Leach, ANU: “I absolutely don’t believe in climate denial…like climate knowledge denial. I don’t think it’s about knowledge. it’s about politics…and money. and then maybe also a little bit about the difficulty of the challenges we face, because we’ve gotta change. I mean we all have to change. (ABC’s Paul Barclay in background “yes”). I just don’t think it’s about facts or knowledge anymore. it’ about politics. it’s not about science now. are we good political communicators? and do we want to enter that arena? and do we have the skills to enter that arena? (Paul Barclay – and what are the consequences if you don’t enter that arena?). Prof Leach: exactly. so I think those are the big questions. I don’t think it’s about denialism at all. I don’t think it’s really much about even the science any more. it’s about politics.
27min28sec: Barclay behaves as if CAGW hasn’t been mentioned up to now – never mind the intro, or the other couple of times he’s inserted the topic:
paraphrasing:
***poor Maja Horst had to fly to Australia. she has to – it’s her job. has an e-bike back home. she votes for the right political parties (Barclay laughs). totally agrees with Prof Leach – we shouldn’t discuss the science. ABC’s Barclay meets a lot of people who are in their Sixties or onwards, who find it difficult to come to terms with climate change as a thing. they are not scientifically trained at all, but nor do they really have a vested interest in disbelieving. it’s just a big thing from left field that feels like an existential threat to them. how do you go about engaging them in a conversation?
more to come.
40
Big Ideas guest, Darren Saunders:
TWEET Dr. Darren Saunders
Scientist says rightwing thinktank @TheIPA misrepresented her Great Barrier Reef study.
What a clown show.
18 Nov 2019
***LINK GUARDIAN
https://twitter.com/whereisdaz/status/1196538261251870720
***19 Nov: Guardian: Scientist says rightwing thinktank misrepresented her Great Barrier Reef study
Tara Clark says the central claim of the Institute of Public Affairs’ YouTube film attacking her coral report is wrong
by Graham Readfearn
The IPA says its YouTube film, Beige Reef, is a “must watch” because it shows healthy Acropora corals living at Stone Island, near Bowen. This, the film claims, is in a place where a study published in 2016 claimed all those corals had died.
But Dr Tara Clark, of the University of Wollongong, says the film’s central claim is wrong because her 2016 study did not make any such statement and the IPA’s film had focused on a different location.
Clark told Guardian Australia: “Our work has clearly been misrepresented.”
The IPA, which has been heavily funded by the mining magnate Gina Rinehart, is known for promoting fringe views on human-caused climate change…
Marohasy’s filming had taken place over subtidal reefs rather than over the reef flats that were the focus of her study, Clark said…READ ALL
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/19/scientist-says-rightwing-thinktank-misrepresented-her-great-barrier-reef-study
60
Big Ideas guest, Prof Joan Leach:
21 Jun 2017: The Conversation: Science journalism is in Australia’s interest, but needs support to thrive
by Joan Leach, Professor, Australian National University
Disclosure statement: Joan Leach receives funding from the ARC
(This article was co-authored with Kylie Walker, Chief Executive Officer of Science and Technology Australia, and Visiting Fellow at the Australian National Centre for the Public Awareness of Science, Australian National University)
Specialist science journalists are vital in our society in a few key ways. These include as public disseminators of sound science that can lead to policy, as identifiers of flawed journalism and “dodgy” (even life-threatening) science, and as gatekeepers between public relations departments in research institutions and the general media…
And yet the number of specialist science reporters in Australia is in serious decline…
It seems the ABC is the only mainstream media outlet with a science unit. Here, specialists Anna Salleh and Jake Sturmer along with experienced science journalists, communicators and broadcasters (Robyn Williams, Natasha Mitchell, Joel Werner, Bernie Hobbs, Ruben Meerman and Dr Karl amongst others) present regular science content on various platforms…
http://theconversation.com/science-journalism-is-in-australias-interest-but-needs-support-to-thrive-79106
Nov 2008: ABC: Scientific freedom charters questioned
by Anna Salleh
The charter for CSIRO is welcomed by the organisation’s staff association but Dr Joan Leach, who leads the science communication program at the University of Queensland, says she is sceptical the charters will have a real impact.
“I somewhat question their spirit in the sense of encouraging public debate – I’m not sure they’re designed to have that effect.”…
Fact or interpretation?
Leach is also concerned about the charter’s requirement for public debate to be based on “factually based discussion of scientific issues” founded on peer review.
She says while discussion should be evidence-based, in many cases “the facts aren’t in yet” and experts must use their knowledge to extrapolate, judge and interpret, as in the case of climate change.
“There’s a range of interpretations and models about the impacts [of climate change], what we should do next and what happens if we do certain things next,” she says.
“We’re arguing about interpretation, not necessarily about fact.”
Leach says the charter’s attempt to distinguish between scientists speaking as an individual and as an employee of CSIRO, makes it even harder for scientists to know when and how they can comment on policy-related science.
She says it is difficult to separate individuals from their institution since experts are defined by their affiliation to institutions.
“I think it could put individuals in very strange situations.”…
https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/11/21/2426500.htm
TWEET: ANU Media
Climate knowledge denial is about politics and money, says #ANUExpert @JoanLeachCPAS speaking to @ABCbigideas about fake science. #Climate #sciencecommunication @ANU_CPAS @PaulBarclay LISTEN LINK ABC
11 Nov 2019
https://twitter.com/ANUmedia/status/1194133228619272192
30
Same argument of giving more money to ” education”…nothing seems to improve except the quality of brainwashing….
50
While we continue to be governed by a parliament too paralysed by its collective scientific ignorance to get independent advice before seeing fit to kowtow to the Kyoto fantasy and legislate the RET and then follow that up with ratification of the Paris accords Australia’s future can only be a slow path to ruin; well, maybe not so slow since I read last week that our glorious fiscal policy makers are considering implementing quantitative easing to kickstart the recalcitrant inflation rate –at least that’ll take climate crises off the front page.
30
There’s no lack of scientific or economic awareness available to government if they want it.
The scheme is that they don’t want to change anything that will interrupt the skim to them and the renewie cash flow to the two main countries harvesting our wealth.
The libls demonstrated that when they were given S.A. to fix.
Beris Gladagyklikin is too busy demolishing stadiums so that someone’s friends can get some super profit from the rebuild.
Ah politics: ugly one day, abusive and thieving the next.
KK
20
Yeah, they’re onto a sure-fire winner there, who doesn’t want stuff to become deliberately more expensive?
30
It’s a crap solution I agree.
Instead of building a strong working country they’re removing our capacity to function on the world stage except as an exporter of raw materials.
But hell, devaluation of our currency is so easy and hardly noticeable unless you travel overseas and find your purchasing power cut by 10%.
Quantitative easing sounds so cool, and our wages can go up by 3% p.a. and tax receipts will increase thus allowing for a larger public service in Kanberra.
KK
20
One could be forgiven for thinking that a sustainably renewed, stable, non-changing climate would be perfect for manufacturing.
20
some of the ABC staff just woke up!
18 Nov: ABC: Queensland volunteer firefighters, landholders call for reduction in red tape to tackle bushfires on frontline
ABC Wide Bay By Sarah Jane Bell, Megan Hughes and staff
Many working on firegrounds throughout the state have said the length of time it now takes for backburning to be approved leaves firefighters and properties vulnerable to the fast-moving flames.
Mango farmer Robert Sikes, who lives at Bungundarra near Yeppoon, suffered hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage to his property in the recent bushfires that destroyed about 12,000 hectares.
“There was a prohibition on backburning, which rendered our local fire brigades ineffective and so they were not able to backburn,” Mr Sikes said, a 30-year resident of the region.
“I don’t know when it was — it must have been a long time ago — but there must have been a man a lot smarter than me that said, ‘you fight fire with fire.'”…
Mr Sikes, who has previously been involved with the fire brigade, said those with firsthand experience should have been given the responsibility to make fire management decisions on the ground…
Without back-burning fires ‘impossible to control’…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-18/volunteer-firefighters-call-for-reduction-in-red-tape/11713700
14 Nov: ABC: Queensland bushfire evacuee describes burning mountain ‘pumping out smoke like a volcano’ as police charge alleged arsonist
By Rebeka Powell, staff
Police say a 16-year-old boy has been charged with starting a Central Queensland bushfire that has destroyed 14 homes, as firefighters concentrate on strengthening containment lines and extinguishing existing fires before the weather deteriorates over the weekend.
The charge relates to the Cobraball fire, west of Yeppoon, said state disaster coordinator and Deputy Police Commissioner Steve Gollschewski…
Fire crews have begun their investigation to determine the cause of the Noosa North Shore blaze…
Sunshine Coast rural fire area director Andrew Allan said he could already conclude the fires were man-made and deliberate.
He said they had already pinpointed the point of origin — the side of a road in a fairly secluded area…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-14/queensland-bushfires-rage-for-sixth-consecutive-day-wind-change/11696858
Expert warns against vilifying accused Peregian arsonists
Sunshine Coast Daily – 12 Sept 2019
Publicly vilifying two teenagers accused of allegedly starting the Peregian bushfire could retraumatise them into becoming legitimate firebugs…
14 Nov: Daily Mail: Teenage boy, 16, accused of starting a huge bushfire that destroyed 36 buildings in Queensland is arrested over ‘pathetic arson attack’
•At least 14 homes were also burnt to the ground in the deliberately-lit fire
•He hasn’t charged but will be dealt with under the state’s Youth Justice Act
by Alana Mazzoni & AAP
At least 14 homes were also burnt to the ground in the deliberately-lit fire which started at Cobraball (NEAR YEPPOON) at about 1.30pm on Saturday.
It then ravaged the surrounding areas of Bungundarra, Adelaide Park, Maryville and Lake Mary…
Queensland child arsonists get off scot-free
Courier Mail – 13 hours ago
ACCUSED TEEN ARSONISTS’ CASE TO BE HEARD IN SECRET. A COURT ruling barring media from a hearing involving two teens accused of lighting a fire that ripped through a Sunshine Coast suburb has been slammed as a step toward secret justice…
Police allege the teens, aged 14 and 15, deliberately lit a fire that destroyed or damaged homes and tore through bushland at Peregian Beach, forcing hundreds of locals to evacuate…
15 Nov: SBS: AAP: Juvenile accused of lighting devastating bushfire in central Queensland
A minor has been accused of starting a bushfire that razed 14 homes in central Queensland.
Police say the juvenile has not been charged with arson, but will be dealt with under the state’s Youth Justice Act…
Little Lucifers: 136 juvenile firebugs charged in 2 years
Courier Mail – 12 hours ago
The Courier -Mail can also reveal only 18 of those offenders were convicted…
50
Pat
In Qld even if you have a fire permit from your local warden you have to ring Fire Com in Brisbane for final approval. And realise your local warden’s judgement includes that if he/she stuffs up he/she will be on the fire crew.
Urban outlook “OOOh a fire! Put it out before it burns something”.
Rural permit holder “We want to burn something BEFORE we put it out”
40
[…] Nova reports on some more alarming developments in The People’s Republic of Victoria. Manufacturers are drawing up contingency plans to shift […]
40
“What’s green, employs ten times as many people as the “fossil fuel industry” and fake?”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/18/whats-green-fake-and-employs-ten-times-as-many-people-as-the-fossil-fuel-industry/
““The stupid, it burns”
Crowing about an “economy” being larger than an “industry” is as stupid as crowing about a century being longer than a day. “
40
Victoriastan will be saved from further power problems thanks to the extension cord into south Australia and the news the big battery is getting bigger .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/sa-big-battery-set-to-get-even-bigger/11716784
30
AUDIO: 13min29sec: 19 Nov: 2GB: Alan Jones: ‘A national scandal’: Queensland dam emptied into the sea
The Paradise Dam near Bundaberg opened in 2006 at a cost of $200 million, but a 2016 safety review found it was riddled with design and construction faults.
Now, during the worst drought in living memory, 105,000 megalitres of dam water have been released into the sea so that repairs can be carried out on the dam wall.
The Palaszczuk government is refusing to release any of the safety and engineering reports, meaning the public know nothing about the cause of the damage and the cost of repairs.
Local MP Stephen Bennett tells Alan Jones the government has a lot to answer for.
“This transparency issue is the worst I’ve ever seen in our history.
“Can you believe that they would try and cover up the issues around Paradise Dam, the worst infrastructure failure in probably Australia’s history?”
https://www.2gb.com/a-national-scandal-queensland-dam-emptied-into-the-sea/
behind paywall:
A solution for defective dam: store less water
The Australian – 17 Nov 2019
A permanent reduction in water storage capacity is among repair plans for Queensland’s defective Paradise Dam despite it driving a massive agricultural investment boom in the surrounding region…
50
A coal-powered old dynamo,
Keeps industrial plants on the go,
With electrical power,
That can run any hour,
In a constant reliable flow.
100
Off Topic!
But The Guardian published an anti- Jennifer Marohasy article!
The good Dr. has posted a reply!
Amazing a Scientist like Tara Clark uses the Guardian to answer criticism!
50
Dave –
has Jennifer’s response been published by The Guardian? I will look for it.
30
I’ve heard two phone-in programs on ABC Brisbane radio pushing the OK Boomer meme. pure rubbish, but did laugh at one listener whose text was read. it said, in effect, given your audience is basically all baby boomers, it would be a bit one-sided. seems it got another run on the Q&A/Australia Talks rubbish last nite:
19 Nov: SMH: Q&A amounted to a TV version of the meme ‘OK Boomer’
By Neil McMahon
Jones: “Now, Dylan (Storer), if you were prime minister! We’re leaping ahead a little bit but that’s OK. I’m sure you’ve got ideas on these subjects.”
Did he what. Beginning with: “Yeah, climate change is an existential threat to humanity. And civilisation.”
He went on: “It is not political opinion to say that climate change hasn’t contributed to these horrific bushfires … this isn’t a political idea that has come out of nowhere. This is the Bureau of Meteorology. This is our publicly funded institutions. Who else are we supposed to believe?
“So, climate change is an existential threat … it is a huge issue. And I think we need to actually have a government that first acknowledges it, that doesn’t have senators in the back thinking that the bureau is tampering with temperature data. It’s ridiculous. And we need a revolution, in my opinion – to completely overhaul our energy generation system.”
And so on: “We’ve got so many opportunities here but narrow minded people in Canberra and from particular sections of the media and some commentators, it really restricts what we can see. It’s become really ideological where it shouldn’t be, because it’s life on earth.”
Tony Jones tried to get in with a question, but even he knew he wasn’t fast enough: the studio erupted in applause at this outbreak of youthful common sense. If Storer is any example, the kids are all right.
https://www.smh.com.au/culture/tv-and-radio/q-and-a-amounted-to-a-tv-version-of-the-meme-ok-boomer-20191119-p53bsv.html
19 Nov: news.com.au: Australia Talks survey gives insight into our lives and the issues dividing us
A major survey has given a rare insight into Aussie lives, and revealed the one major question that’s divides us more than any other issue.
by Ally Foster
A survey of almost 55,000 people has given insight into the opinions and lives of everyday Aussies, exploring divisive issues like climate change to revealing how often they have sex.
The results of the Australia Talks survey were revealed on ABC Monday night, with hosts Annabel Crabb and Waleed Aly discussing the answers given to the 500 questions….
• 84 per cent believe climate change is real and think action should be taken…
***The Australia Talks Survey was designed to capture data that accurately represents the views of all Australians, not just those who answered the survey, by using weighted data.
ABC chair Ita Buttrose said it was designed to give an insight into what Australia is thinking…
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/australia-talks-survey-gives-insight-into-our-lives-and-the-issues-dividing-us/news-story/3daf89a44abf1bba31e7d8be55d77f3f
***what a laugh. it was just a Vote Compass piece of nonsense.
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sparking calls from Q&A/ABC viewers!
19 Nov: Daily Mail: Outback schoolboy, 16, slams ‘narrow-minded’ politicians during passionate rant about climate change on Q&A – ***sparking calls for him to become PM
•Dylan Storer, 16, returned to ABC’s Q&A panel with Tony Jones on Monday night
•Teen was asked how he would deal with Australia’s environmental issues as PM
•Storer called for a ‘revolution’ of the country’s energy regeneration system
•He also slammed ‘narrow-minded’ politicians for rejecting climate change
by Karen Ruiz
Storer, who is from WA’s Kimberley region, rose to fame last year when he appeared on the panel for the first time to discuss indigenous affairs…
He also weighed in on Tony Abbott’s role as the ambassador for indigenous affairs, implemented by Prime Minister Scott Morrison.
‘You need to look at the underlying issues, they all really relate back to the way Australia was settled, colonised, invaded,’ he said.
‘This top-down approach of the government coming in and saying we’re going to appoint, of all people, Tony Abbott, to deal with indigenous attendance, I think it’s really counter-intuitive.’
The audience erupting into applause…
Share or comment on this article: ***Q&A viewers call for teen Dylan Storer to be the next PM after impressive response
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7699549/Q-viewers-call-teen-Dylan-Storer-PM-impressive-response.html
the writer of the above – big on identity politics, pro-Obama, anti-Trump:
Twitter: Karen Ruiz, DailyMail reporter, Rutgers Alum, New York/Sydney
https://twitter.com/_kareruiz?lang=en
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All this anguish, AGW screaming and carrying-on, degradation of society, removal of freedoms, stunted electrical supplies, overloaded bushfire burdens etc etc
… and yet the green agenda is an ABSOLUTE FLOP when it comes to lowering global emissions of CO2, that most essential ingredient of all life on Earth
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/18/the-global-climate-alarmism-propaganda-campaign-has-failed-fossil-fuels-have-priority/
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So true, Ruari.
Energy received from the sun,
Promethius-gifted to man,
Yr electrical power,
That can run any hour,
And save us from Arma-ged-don
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🙂
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CO2 forced anti-warming in the Northern Hemisphere.
https://notrickszone.com/2019/11/13/n-hemisphere-in-hypothermia-widespread-early-winter-historic-snowstorms-record-books-rewritten/
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Meanwhile the rest of the world is peeing downwind
“The global climate alarmism propaganda campaign has failed – fossil fuels have priority”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/18/the-global-climate-alarmism-propaganda-campaign-has-failed-fossil-fuels-have-priority/
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This goes directly to electrical power generation in Victoria.
With respect to wind power, when the wind blows, the blades turn and power is generated. If it blows way too strongly they turn them off, deliberately, so as they do not get damaged. (poor little petals, so delicate)
You (well I can anyway) can tell when wind power will be good and when it will go ‘off’, just by watching the Weather maps.
Most of those wind plants are in South Australia, and Victoria. So, with the approach of those large High pressure systems across that area, wind power falls away, and while they are centred over that area, wind power is low. It happens every time, and I can know now anything up to 24 hours before it happens, as I watch those systems approaching.
Their outputs are not at zero all the time, because the wind is always blowing somewhere, so you (I) can click on each individual wind plant and see the output across the day. In those low times, they might be back at zero output for an hour or two, sometimes more, but there will always be ‘some’ output across the day.
Okay, so the scene has been set.
Macarthur wind plant is the largest (operational) wind plant in Australia, at a Nameplate of 420MW (nett – 130) and there are 140 individual wind towers spread across the vast area covered by this industrial power plant, and please, it’s not a ‘farm’.
At 8AM on Monday, Macarthur wind plant was turned off. It didn’t fall away to zero power across time when the wind fell away. No. this was a deliberate switching off of the whole plant. An hour earlier it was at around 320MW, and at 8AM it was at 150MW. Five minutes later it was back at zero, a straight line fall back to zero.
It has been at zero ever since then, now 52 hours later. Not one watt of power has been output from this plant.
Okay, significant, maybe, maybe not, but the time, at exactly 8AM Monday morning. The AEMO works on the one time basis, (as electrical power generation and its consumption is instantaneous) and that time basis is Queensland time. So 8AM Queensland time is 9AM (DST) in Victoria.
Someone turned up at work in AGL and intentionally made that decision to turn the plant off at 9AM, work start time.
Please don’t try and tell me that altruism and a concern for reducing CO2 emissions with wind power has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with renewable power. It’s an economic decision only.
Tony.
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Tony, there may be problems with the grid:
Portland smelter problems
And Macarthur is not a top site, said to be the worst performing.
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