Snow in December: Has Australia installed too many solar panels?
Climate Change brings summer snow to Australia
Coldest maximum summer temperature on record at Thredbo
Kate Doyle, ABC News
On Monday, the second day of summer, the temperature only reached -1 degrees Celsius at the Thredbo weather station, the coldest maximum temperature recorded anywhere in Australia during summer.
But really cold records don’t matter. For the first time in history, Blair Trewin, Bureau of Meteorology points out how minor these daily records are:
Blair Trewin, senior climatologist at the Bureau of Meteorology, confirmed that it was a summer as well as December record but pointed out there was more to it.
“In some ways it’s not quite as impressive as it looks,” Dr Trewin said.
This is indeed the only instance of him ever saying that.
“This is because before automatic weather stations were installed in the 1990s, manual observations at high mountain sites [like the top of Thredbo, Mount Hotham and Falls Creek] were very limited outside the ski season.”
Exactly. When will Blair Trewin tell Australians that hot records are not as impressive as they look because automatic weather stations were installed in the 1990s across the whole country and ever since then a mere one second spike of heat can create a whole new “record” which was not possible to record on glass thermometers for the 200 years before that?
This reminds us that earlier this year, when it snowed in Albany, suddenly the BOM and the ABC discovered historic colder weather records. They still haven’t found the hotter older records…
More “convenient” truths from Trewin:
He said at Thredbo they used to take observations at the top of the mountain in winter and in the village in summer.
Luckily they filed the data as separate stations so they could be differentiated, but most of the coldest mountain-top temperatures from summer before the ’90s would not have been recorded.
“This means that effectively, you’re really only looking at the coldest summer maximum of the post-1990 period,” Dr Trewin said.
We’re looking forward to someone (anyone) at the ABC asking Blair Trewin after the next “hottest ever second” whether effectively we’re only looking at the hottest day since 1996. Perhaps its possible the most remote areas were hotter in the 1800s and the Federation Drought but if they were those maxima would not have been recorded. (Except of course when they actually were recorded. Remind us again why we ignore all the 50C plus temperatures that occurred across Australia so many years ago?)
Remember either the BOM just makes up the old hot inner desert temperatures, day after day, or the Australian desert was stuck in some kind of ground hog repeat annual weather pattern that exactly matched the Calendar year.
“We don’t have any real information about high alpine summer temperatures before then.”
Every single station in Australia has moved, changed, shrunk in size, got new equipment, or has missing data, or been mowed, ploughed, neglected, infested with wasps, paved with bitumen, got an incinerator on site, or someone built a five lane super highway or skyscraper next door. Given that, no matter what record is set anywhere, if it needs to be dismissed, the BOM can suddenly remember the history. When will Blair Trewin mention that there were just as many very hot days as recorded by the original approved BoM equipment during World War I as there are today?
If it’s a very hot day, it’s a world class system. If it’s cold, well, the data is quite short and patchy…
As I’ve said before If the BOM was incompetent, the ABC would be the last organisation on Earth to find out.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
- Sydney before “climate change” — over 50C, 122F recorded at Windsor Observatory, 1939
- Finally BoM releases some “secret” comparison data — a snow job revealing new thermometers are not comparable
- Our BoM electronic thermometers are “purpose designed”. We’re not sure what purpose.
- Canberra’s “hottest ever” September record due to thermometer changes and a wind profiler
- Another BOM scandal: Australian climate data is being destroyed as routine practice
- On Sunday, Goulburn got colder than the BOM thought was possible (and a raw data record was “adjusted”).
- Met Bureau Bingo: warm autumn nights sold as “Hottest Ever” March extreme
- The lost climate knowledge of Deacon 1952: hot dry summers from 1880-1910
- Get Headlines! How to find a heatwave in five easy steps
- Heatwave kills thousands of birds — this was climate change in 1932
- Forgotten history: 50 degrees everywhere, right across Australia in the 1800s
As one of my professors flatly told us, “If the data do not fit the model, the obviously the data are wrong!”
No, I’m NOT making this up.
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That’s a common theme these days in so called modern science. During the investigation of the space shuttle disaster NASA was going at great lengths to discredit the data that found they were negligent. Eventually they had to admit they were wrong but only after they were exposed publicly. If it was behind closed doors I bet they would have kept telling lies.
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Do keep in mind, PeterS, this little event took place circa 1974, my junior undergrad year.
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It just goes to show how financially and politically invested the BOM is in promoting global warming above all scientific credibility, and honour for that matter.
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And how gullible (or mischievous)the ABC is.
Truthful Trewin is right up there with that other infallible ABC expert, Bruce Pascoe!
davefromweewaa
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Is that new?
BOM makes short term climate outlooks.
https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/about-us/our-districts/blue-mountains/latest-news/climate-overview-may-to-july-2015
You would not believe it, if you did not read it!
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By the nature of climate and the nature of models, all climate models have to be wrong all the time.
Apart from that they’re fine.
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No matter how beautiful yr model …
https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/christy_dec8.jpg?resize=700%2C525
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Beth
I like the one which plots the model run spaghetti and has the Russian one as a clear outsider within cooee of the measured plots
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So you get the same standard of honesty from academia that you get from government. After the joke our climate change policy is here in the Golden State I am not surprised. There is no understanding of numbers and the importance of where yo get them. Where they come from counts.
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A different simulation class – assignment mid 1970’s was to produce a working simulation.
One group was lamenting the lack of data on their chosen subject.
Lecturer’s comment was “That’s only a problem if you are aiming for meaningful results”.
The down side of modelling was emphasised even then.
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The alarmist have their order of operations all mixed up. Instead of making observations and forming and then testing a hypothesis, they have arrived at a theory first and then they have sought to observe confirmation of their theory. Indeed, they interpret everything they see as confirmation of their theory.
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Yair Blair. Senior climatologist at our esteemed(cough) and reverential (hack) BoM.
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BUREAU OF MISINFORMATION !
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Meanwhile I have been sowing and planting my Summer vegetable garden.
I planted tomato, cucumber, zuchini, capsicum and watermelon seedlings two weeks ago.
And since then, despite being watered and being in good soil, they have not grown at all.
Why ?
Because it’s been too bloody cold for them to grow….
I get so annoyed at these alarmists pontificating about Global warming but don’t ever spend time OUTSIDE ! Too busy inside watching alarmist climate fairy tales !
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Bill
Remember Chiefio’s conclusion that GissTemp is “dumber than a tomato”
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/gistemp/
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Nocturnal temperatures markedly down here for last 2 months
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You’ve got Blair Trewin on record now:
– record that
– date it and attribute it
– then play it back from now on for every way out or far fetched weather event like declarations of heat waves etc.
He said it so make them `enjoy’ it!
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Blair is Peaksmart. He only does peaks, okay?
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Bill in oz,
How do you increase the temperature around your vege patch?
May I suggest that you build a carpark on one side of your property, a highway and an airport on the other sides. Place your compressors next to your vegetable garden. Stevenson screens have proven there is an increase in temperature when they are sited next to structures and equipment like those.
As you are growing vegetables, You are virtue signalling to some that we don’t need farmers and that you are cutting your CO2 emissions. So I suggest that you contact your local school students or xr demonstrators and invite them to protest beside your vege patch. Their body heat and emissions of CO2 due to respiration will enhance the growth and the amount of produce that you grow.
As a result,
I get to drive unobstructed to work, you get a bumper harvest and our protester friends feel happy because they think they have converted you to their cause.
It’s a winner
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The tremendous effort of Clement Wragge and his staff to record early Stevenson screen temperatures from Mt Kosciusko is rewarded by the records joining the AWOL data set down the plug hole.
“Thank God, the records are
safe! ”
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/104066418
Safe where? Can’ be found in the BoM online records.
Wragge ONLY used Stevenson screens. There is no excuse.
AN OBSERVATORY ON MT.KOSCIUSZKO.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/216692360
What the BoM replaced it with.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60057542
The BoMs own data from there is not daily digitised.
Station:Mount Kosciusko (Hotel Kosciusko)Number: 071012 Opened: 1911 Now: Closed 31 Dec 1954
What if Trewin found time to do this digitisation instead of these media stunts?
Lance Pidgeon
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It’s almost like some innate disease of the mind. The TV weatherman here in NZ always says “temperatures were warmer than NORMAL today in …blah,blah” I’ve never heard him say temperatures were “cooler than NORMAL”. They just can’t help themselves, their AGW message always must subtly get out.
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Its a learned behaviour of counter triggers from the cults manual, they are obsessive in their use and will not accept otherwise.
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Aye, Mack, mustn’t mention FREEZING and SNOWING and RECORD COLD especially during the first 7 days of summer in the HOTTEST YEAR EVAAAAH!!! (apologies for shouting)
On Tasmania’s Mt Mawson ski field’s home page, this tweet was posted Fri 6 Dec (sweet irony):
“Summer working bee postponed a week due to snow!”
https://www.mtmawson.info/snow-cam/ (scroll down page)
Our metservice is forecasting (ongoing) “snow to 1100 metres” or 3,500 ft today from The Remarkables to Mt Cook to Arthur’s Pass, yet the well-heeled media squawks about floods and road washouts and “hot for Gisborne and Napier” on the east coast (foehn effect) with 28 C.
Sure hope Latus Dextro survives Dunedin’s max temp of 19 C today while furrrther south, Invercarrrgill will be frying on 15 C max. Won’t somebody please think of the dairy cows and Southlanderrrrrs! Oh my…
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As initial comment still in moderation (?) shall keep this one brief:
“Summer working bee postponed a week due to snow!”
Tasmania’s Mt Mawson Ski Field tweet, Fri 6 Dec 2019.
https://www.mtmawson.info/snow-cam/ (scroll down page)
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Won’t
somebodysimbuddy pleasethinkthunk of the dairy cows and Southlanderrrrrs! Oh my…There, fixed it for you! Last time we went to NZ the lovely immigration lady officer asked us if we had “chups”. Eventually we worked out that she meant the “chips’ in our passports so we could use the Smart Gates.
Just love the Kiwi accent. Puts my Scottish one to shame!
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No, no, Peter Petrum. I love a Scottish accent, last heard at GLA afew weeks ago.
Mind you, I don’t always understand what’s said! 🙂
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Hi Annie, I am Glasgow born, but with an East Coast accent (more clipped). The Glasgow accent (à la Billy Connolly) is a bit hard to get your ears around if you’re not used to it – yuu knoooow
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I have a BIL who is a Glaswegian version of Robbie Coltrane, mannerisms and all, so I had a bit of practice!
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We used to hoot at ‘Nuns on the Run’ because RC was so like BIL,
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My stepdad was a Scot, has a nice accent unless he drank to much, in which case it became incomprehensible.
On a trip to NZ a few years ago it was unusually cold so my wife went to buy some slippers to keep he feet warm. Found just the thing , and at check out the lady asked “Just the sluppers then luv?” she held it together quite well and responded with her own “yep, just the sluppers”
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… and it’s only Aussies who have trouble with the Nyu Zild accent, such as it is 🙂
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I was hitch-hiking home back in my penurious student days and I was picked up an almost new Range Rover whose driver I couldn’t understand at all:
Said he was from:
(say very fast, de-emphasizing all vowels and over emphasizing all consonants:)
GeLAZZ Guh.
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Spot oaaan, Jimmy. Youz ken weeel.
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Greg in NZ
And Gorrre?
I know in winter “it’s rrraw in Gorrre”. But summer?
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Richard, in the native Gore-ite tongue methinks it’s pronounced more like Gurr,
as in ‘wurrukung’ for working and ‘surrufung’ for surfing (lived in the Bluff for a few years while studying at Mayor Tim’s Southern Institute of Technology in Invergumboot).
Lovely folk, except they talked funny, a beet like Melburnistanians, yeeeaaah? 🙂
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“WATCH: Trump Science Advisor Will Happer Says Global Warming Is a ‘Scam’ ”
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/12/07/trump-science-advisor-will-happer-global-warming-is-a-scam/
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“No it doesn’t negate climate change” Says Trewin there.
Oh yea? What does high albedo snow do to incoming sunlight? Both extremes of extreme temperatures send heat off the planet. High temperatures have a broader wavelength or frequency spectrum power, a wider and stronger Planck distribution. So they radiate more energy to space. These cold frost and snow events also reflect more. A large amount of either extreme on the Australian map means more energy was lost to space.
http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/planck_curve.html
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nothing negates AGW, ever
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A theory that predicts everything predicts nothing. – Paul Steinhardt
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Another “snow” job by the BOM
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My father observed birds falling out of trees, dead of heat exhaustion. I never have, and I’ve lived all my life on the same land that he did.
It’s a small thing, perhaps, but just one more reason to regard the hysterics with a raised and sceptical eyebrow.
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Peter W Have you seen this?
https://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=1797
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Lance….
Yes, and thanks.We are in the Eastern Riverina.
Dad was born in 1920, so memories from his youth could have been either 32 or 39. 1939 seems more probable, as he was at home, working, at age 19.
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maybe the ones that survived cope better with heat
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JS Wind turbines will clean them up if they did that by flying over the hills to far far away.
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… we wish! 😛
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“What Would We Do Without Peer Review?”
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/12/07/what-would-we-do-without-peer-review-7/#comments
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A lot of needless worry, Jo. They calibrate them all to fit with the sturdy, reliable, tree-ring data.
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You can make a nice hockey stick out of a tree……..
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But not a nice surfboard. Petrochemical materials are the go 🙂
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But there is much skill in selecting the right tree.
(Robert Swan, if the one- an old colleague did not see you at the Perth event last Friday!)
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No Lucky, not me. I’m an east-coaster.
On Usenet in the ’90s I had a .sig that said (beside my name): “No, not the antarctic adventurer. No, not the Canberra porn-monger. Yes, that’s right, the boring one.” So now I can add a Perthling to my list of Robert Swans.
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Cheez — you get around! 🙂
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Solar panels are evil it seems in more ways than one , not only do they cause record snow in Summer but in a grid like Jo’s home state they threaten the stability of the grid .
Here’s the latest cunning plan to address the situation by spilling excess solar generation.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-08/authorities-look-to-control-house-rooftop-solar-power-in-wa/11773436
Maybe goodbye feed in tariffs.
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Amazing, who wuld have thought that the government could make a stupid set of decisions?
First, shove the electricity bills up (in the name of Saving the Planet).
Two, allow people to install solar panels to reduce the rise in their bills**.
Three, discover that people are installing more capacity than they use.
Four, suddenly discover that those people can’t have the benefit they were told they could have.
And if those 300,000 solar installations are putting out 1,000,000kWh for 6? hours, that means batteries capable of storing that power which would have to be used at night so they could be ready for the next days output. That’s a minimum $A7.5 billion (at the same rate as in SA) and as the State government hasn’t got that, it will be $25,000 per home owner. The coming jobs might be solar panel DE-INSTALLERS.
**With electricity about 3-4 times the cost of the Feed in Tariff, naturally people will calculate that they need a bigger system. Indeed an average size of 3.3kW from the ABC figures seems very low.
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Maybe a government amnesty on panels and a buy back system !
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I suppose that there is one thing to come from all these homes with solar panels on their roofs.
It means there will be a stable population in all those areas, as all those home owners are now locked into staying in their homes for the (hoped for) 25 year life of the panels, because, umm, you, can’t take them with you, eh!
Tony.
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What do you do at the end of 25 ( or more likely 15-20) years?
By then it will be recognised that they are full off toxic heavy metals which will not be cost effective to recycle.
The new “asbestos” going into landfills.
As been stated elsewhere,
Solar panels produce 300 times more toxic waste than nuclear energy per unit of energy generated.
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Tony, not to mention those people who would like to sell but can’t as not all buyers are willing to live with solar panels on the roof.
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and you guys ‘n girls think you have problems with fires now?
Go on: install all those batteries … I’m sure we’ll see the smoke here in NZ as usual 🙂
… Drogenbos Australia 1, 2, … 31. 32 … 🙂
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Listening to William Happer, leading physicist and for a year the adviser to President Trump, even Trump has to deal with the negativity of Climate Change/Global Warming and the vote loss from challenging what Happer agrees is a very profitable scam. (Happer agreed to only one year.)
Sadly the ridiculous ‘97% of scientists say’ lie has stuck in the public mind, even though it is transparently ridiculous. Happer though is very pleased that Trump withdrew from the destructive Paris self flagellation agreement. He also expects that unencumbered by reelection needs, Trump will address this non science in his second term.
And in true Yes minister style, Happer argues that it is the “We Bees” pushing this, the swamp. No matter who is in power ‘We Be’ still here. And Climate Change is the UN gift which comes with enormous political power and cash for the elites. It is their baby and meteorologists like the BOM finally have political power of which they could previously only dream. Otherwise, is any science more boring than meteorology, studying something over which you have no control, a chaotic system impossible to model?
So why would the BOM say the whole thing is fake? With satellites and automatic recording stations, most of them are not needed. They are only reporters. And when it all comes tumbling down, they will retire. Like Al Gore. Desperate Tim Flannery however seems very upset that he has a totally inadequate climate retirement fund for living at his beach house on the Hunter river and book sales must be flagging. Really, what’s the point of fame without the cash?
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The link..
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I received a hard copy of the Business News Western Australia. This is a bit of a lefty publication. On their December 5- 12 , 2019 publication, on page 35 there is an article about the inaugural Tech Fest: It is to place on Friday, 6th December 2019
The inaugural Rotto Tech Fest has sold out again. The day on the island consists of talks around the environment and oceans and two hours of startups’ pitching for the US Future Leaders Mentoring Program, sponsored by the US State Department and the US Consulate General Perth.
The pitching teams for the US Leaders Mentoring Program includes Alexander Karan and Vanessa Rauland from Climate Clever ( an initiative to help schools reduce their carbon footprint).
I wonder if President Trump is aware of this program and the Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo.
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Send him a tweet.
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That is the warmest snow I’ve ever seen. Ever.
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Hey, get with the meme Travis; this ‘warmest snow ever’ is ‘unprecedented’.
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I’d have said ‘hot snow’ is a ‘climate catastrophe’. All the koalas will die.
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Going a bit fur, even for koalas.
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Are you a Kiwi too?
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He wasn’t when I last looked.
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A little note on NSW midcoast minima…
Daily records go back to 1965. Lowest minimum recorded, August 2018. Second lowest minimum, May 2019. Lowest November minimum was in 2019, during fires. Second lowest November minimum was in 2019, during fires.
Of course, till around 2000 the drunken postmasters were selling mercury for grog and their neglected dogs often ate the records…so it’s not as impressive as it looks.
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The ABC didn’t mention that the Southern Annular Mode is extremely negative and a global cooling signal.
https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/daily_ao_index/aao/aao_index.html
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If “a mere one second spike of heat can create a whole new “record” which was not possible to record on glass thermometers for the 200 years before that?‘ is true (from the post at the top) then the same would apply for the coldest recordings as well.
Note, I’ve not been able to confirm the method BOM uses when recording temperature, but there are hints of a rolling average on the website.
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A rolling average only works if you use ALL the data available Peter.
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Good to see that you agree with the fact that if a 1 second temp spike up will be recorded, then the same is for a 1 second spike down.
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Wrong again, PF. See below.
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Who needs any instrument to register a record low -1C when you are covered in snow? That says it all.
I would suggest that air temperature would spike to much lower than -1C just to form the snow given that water releases heat when freezing, the latent heat of freezing. Otherwise you get sleet or hail or many other forms of frozen water. Snow means very cold.
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I guess that also tells us that even if the instruments register spikes down, they are not recorded. Simple filtering to do. Some would call it unidirectional homogenization. All in a good cause.
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Good to see you recognise one second spikes counter each other out and are therefore useless, now about those historical records……
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Mr Fitzroy: it’s when water actually freezes (as in snow and ice) you should know that’s it not a 1second downward spike but at least a 24 Hr (or longer) trend.
Do try harder to not be so silly .,. Space Cadet …
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Sorry PF, but they have admitted as such.
We know your inadequacy at confirming anything..
You know, like scientific evidence for CO2 warming.
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In this post, Ken shows that the high bias is considerably more than the low bias
https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2017/03/21/how-temperature-is-measured-in-australia-part-2/
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Note specifically Figures 8 and 9.
(If you can comprehend basic graphs)
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Quite so, however whatever we say is only opinion. The BOM are the ones holding the data and declaring records. Clearly some additional historical downward adjustments are needed to clear this anomaly.
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Self registering thermometers have been able to record even shorter than one second spikes since the sixes thermometer was invented in 1790. What you Peter Fitzroy and unfortunately a lot of skeptics fail to comprehend is that a single probe thermometer response time (not sampling rate) cannot be matched to the same response time as the previous separate and different alcohol minimum and mercury maximum times. Not just because of different liquids but because they were at different heights in the Stevenson. So no the equal and opposite thing will not happen. Nor can a vertical and thin probe be made to behave the same way in wind as a fat near horizontal glass thermometer. Wind speed changes response time. By altering mass and shape the PRTD has been mechanically fudge and futz matched to the mercury response time wind relationship by a series of fiddle and tweak adjustments that are not well documented in any place that is easy to find.
The WMO specified that averaging needed to be done AFTER the sampling partly because electronic noise did not exist for glass thermometers nor did aliasing.
“there are hints of a rolling average on the website.” This is the fudged response time. Both a standard response time over a range of wind speed AND averaging are required to meet WMO guidelines.
It is a fail.
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No I’m saying that what goes for high readings is equally true for low ratings and this backed up in 16.2.1. All you are saying is that different instruments will have differences between them.
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Reading comprehension issues to boot Peter. I’m saying that what goes for high readings did not ever go for low readings as well in the past. They were different then. So you can’t expect the modern device to simulate the past non symmetry.
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PF:
The highs and lows are NOT averaged. And the highest figures are reported.
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PF, proven wrong again See #16.2.1
High bias is way more than low bias
Nearly all low bias is -0.1C.
70% of high bias is +0.2 or more.
I know mathematical comprehension is a major issue for you PF,
… but do stop digging yourself in deeper.
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Not to mention that Urban effects are generally in the upward direction,
These cannot be ignored. In fact…
In BOM ACORN2, they are the main feature. !!
And again, there is no evidence of any warming related to atmospheric CO2.
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Not really PF. Thje instruments are off the ground. Now hot air rises while cold air falls. So it is probable that a hot bubble caused by a passing vehicle or concentration of heat from reflection of a stone or even the pole supporting the screen will rise. Modern thermometers will record that as ambient whereas the older thermometers with slow response time would have ignored it. Colder air will lie low and the instrument would be unlikely to encounter a colder bubble.
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Brian – Thanks. Yes, it is easy to imagine what hot gusts do to maximum readings on fast reacting temperature instruments. There is unlikely to be such a thing as cold gusts.
This is on top of the known, admitted, truncating of data by BoM when it gets cold.
Above all, there is the fact that original data have been destroyed, after being normalized, homogenized and re-calibrated. Such revised data always show an increasing trend, and are kept, and go back many years.
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🙂
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Ooops correction “1790” was when the inventor was born so some time after that obviously.
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I can’t wait until the BoM declares this December to be the hottest eevveerrr!
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Its certainly been warm for some, I am sure that can be homogenised into the desired outcome, with a high degree of accuracy and certainty.
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Any day now – they have to have the result ready for the 31st.
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It’s been b. hot here in Qld. Might have something to do with how dry it is.
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The scandal that is the BOM needs to be somehow exposed and this more than anything else would make people think about other revered institutions like NASA the CSIRO, the UN , many of the scientific organisations, and top universities.
I get sick and tired of answering the standard warmist comeback of “ So you’re telling me that the BOM , CSIRO, NASA and the top scientists are all telling lies ?!
Well YES.
They then look at me as if I was mad.
There is no doubt the inability of sceptics to have been able to prosecute these indiscretions by major institutions in the mainstream media has meant that the Alarmist movement has been able to grow unimpeded. Climategate should’ve been the beginning of the end but unfortunately the incredible whitewashing of this event by the UK swamp meant that the damning evidence of the global climate conspiracy never made it through to the general public. Ironically UK where this scandal originated now has a political system so in cahoots with the alarmists agenda both sides of politics have extraordinarily draconian future emissions targets.
Whilst Trump has been a huge fillip for sceptics the failure of other major political leaders to call out the global warming religion for what it is has meant that 10 years on from climategate the world has not put this discredited and debunked scare into the annals of Doomsday predictions history.
A thorough independent and public investigation of BOM is desperately needed to shine a light on the incredible measures that they have gone to to perpetuate their preferred narrative.
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This ‘trust the experts’ is my experience as well.
I have a friend who’s son works at the Adelaide BOM office. She tells me that they know what they are doing and that I am not as expert as them, so who should we believe?
She has no knowledge of the points raised in this and other blogs nor will she ask her son the questions I offer.
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The lady is talking from the perspective of a mother concerned for her son’s job.
The scientific aspects of any debate around the BOM would not be a high priority for consideration.
Those who built this social control mechanism have done a fantastic job.
KK
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I have a friend whose daughter is going to study at JCU. He is convinnced the oceans will be boiling shortly and if you dont go to visit the GBR in a few years it will be gaaaaawn!
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Trust is the key issue. An interesting question is why ban gas exploration? Why not get up a discussion around nuclear. This prohibition and silence is telling.
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Hmmm. They have significant difficulties with facts which collide with their fictions and so develop a very light touch with truth …
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A fantastic summary of the Science of Weather.
Eventually the world will have to come to the same conclusion that Jo has described here:
the Earth’s weather is variable and there are limitations to how “accurately” it can be described and limitations on drawing meaning from past and present records.
For the activist politicians, renewables “investors”/skimmers, climate change professors, media excitators and the like, it’s accepted fact that man made Climate Change is real: their future wealth, high salaries and social status depend absolutely on that fairy story going unchallenged.
Posts like this one go a long way towards bringing a sense of proportion to the Weather Worriers protestations of imminent human catastrophe, but still leave the main question unanswered;
how do we free ourselves from the clutches of the climate abusers?
For all of the hype and media pumping, the temperature fluctuations used by Climate Worriers have a very low level of significance and relevance to our lives here on Earth.
KK
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The question is how long they can keep the scam going? Especially if Nature isn’t cooperating.
The USA is not looking good for them in that the early winter and high snow falls (following a cool Spring and a short Summer) will make those campaigning on the need to get rid of reliable electricity will look foolish and unelectable.
There are riots/demonstrations in Chile, France, Belgium, the Netherlands about the rises in fuel prices, and if the Greens get their proposed 35-54% rises in fuel prices in Germany, they are likely there.
Poland and the Czech Republic are joining Hungary in opposing further actions by the EU in the name of combatting Climatechange© by raising electricity prices. Brazil has joined those uninterested in collapsing their economy at the bidding of the UN. China has always ignored the whole nonsense, and now India, Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, and several countries in Africa have decided that cheap reliable electricity from coal fired stations is the way to the future.
Even in Australia, despite the efforts of the ABC (and Peter Fitzroy) there are cracks appearing with farmers in the Murray-Darling basin against water being reserved for “environmental flows”. The threat to vote against many National party politicians will cause angst in the Coalition. Nothing causes a change in a politician’s mind than the thought of losing his seat, and the thought of being dumped at the next election with cause some concern in the whole Federal government.
And that’s even if Victoria, SA and NSW avoid wide scale blackouts this summer.
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You won’t be surprised that ‘Water Trading’ is another construct of the United Nations.
This article from the UN outlines how our Australian government put in place water trading rules to satisfy the UN’s Agenda 21/2030.
Time to put Australia First
https://preview.tinyurl.com/uy2crkq
via MalcolmRoberts@twitter
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I hope some of that comes true.
I would like to see political turmoil, but only for the politicians.
KK
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Watching Eurosport ski racing from Val Thorens in France. Early December, snow as far as you can see. The camera people are taking great pleasure in doing the sweeping snowy vista backdrops.
Fired up the generator today after the winter break. All good and ready for summer fun.
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“will make those campaigning on the need to get rid of reliable electricity will look foolish and unelectable.”
Won’t we get the “even more strident” stage first?
Or is this it?
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Oh dear this probably means 2019 will put down as only the 5th or 6th hottest year on record.
Not to worry though by 2030 the adjustments will ensure it will always be the hottest ever, except for 2020, 2021, etc.
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Actually Jo has the headline of this thread a bit wrong.
Should be “The 231st hottest summer day since 1788”
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And when we said there would be no more snow, evah, we meant no more snow in places where it doesn’t snow, evah.
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The BoM is spending so much effort altering recorded data to suit their political agenda that they will miss the actual cooling signal that ushers in the forthcoming age of global cooling, assuming normal climate trends are followed.
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Ken Stewart’s examination of BOM’s weather stations continues.
So far there are 290 such stations
Which FAIL
To meet the BOM’s own guidelines
There are roughly 720 in BOM’s own network
So clearly BOM’s FAIL RATE is approaching
40%
BOM is not the expert, professional weather bueau
It pretends to be.
https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/
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From some posting troubles it would seem that Tony Heller is in the sin bin.
Have a look at his “Australian Drought”
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Snow in December? Piffle. That nice Mr Flannery said there would be no snow at all by now due to global warming so these low temperatures and reports of snow are figments of your deranged imaginations.
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Blair Trewin’s facebook page shows he has been researching historical instances of cold and snow.
https://www.facebook.com/blair.trewin/posts/10159028751926729
I wonder if he is as diligent about researching the long history of heat records.
I think he is largely responsible for ACORN 2 and its cooling of the past.
http://www.bom.gov.au/research/publications/researchreports/BRR-032.pdf
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Global Warming Hottest year. Ever.
Beware of the heatwaves …
Helicopter plucks trekkers suffering hypothermia from wilderness hut
“Strong winds, thick snow and freezing temperatures had halted the efforts of the police, paramedics and SES to rescue the group, believed to be from India.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-07/three-bush-walkers-in-tasmania-suffering-hypothermia/11776702
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Hypo/Hyper-
Hypothermia is ‘just weather’, however, Trevor
Hyper-thermia is OUR fault and it’s an emergency crisis!
One metre of snow and -7 Celsius (can you FEEL the Bern?).
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Yep
2019 is turning out better (colder!) than I thought it would.
Maybe this is just the beginning of more of that Bizzness as Usual warming.
Maybe it will go over 2° as in – 3° or more …
Y’know it can’t possibly be cooling the models aren’t projecting it!
🙂
</ridicule>
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the CAGW mob have a new scare today – unveiled at COP25, of course:
14m08s to 18m47s BBC’s Lyse Doucet: today another climate warning. Guest: Minna Epps, Director, Global Marine and Polar Programme, International Union for the Conservation of Nature
AUDIO: 52m59s: 7 Dec: BBC Newshour
Scientists have warned that climate change and pollution are driving oxygen out of the oceans…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172wq52b0xsbd0
7 Dec: BBC: Climate change: Oceans running out of oxygen as temperatures rise
By Matt McGrath
Around 700 ocean sites are now suffering from low oxygen, compared with 45 in the 1960s…
“We have known about de-oxygenation but we haven’t known the linkages to climate change and this is really worrying,” said Minna Epps from IUCN.
“Not only has the decline of oxygen quadrupled in the past 50 years but even in the best case emissions scenario, oxygen is still going to decline in the oceans.”…
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50690995
7 Dec: CommonDreams: New Report on Ocean Oxygen Loss Gives ‘Ultimate Wake-Up Call’ to Act on Climate
“Decisions taken at the ongoing climate conference will determine whether our ocean continues to sustain a rich variety of life, or whether habitable, oxygen-rich marine areas are increasingly, progressively, and irrevocably lost.”
by Andrea Germanos
The publication from the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) shows how the problem known as ocean deoxygenation, driven by global warming and human-caused nutrient pollution, is expanding, with impacts on humans and marine ecosystems alike.
“With this report, the scale of damage climate change is wreaking upon the ocean comes into stark focus. As the warming ocean loses oxygen, the delicate balance of marine life is thrown into disarray,” said IUCN acting director general Dr. Grethel Aguilar.
Representing the expertise of over five dozens scientists across 17 countries, the report is framed as “the largest peer-reviewed study conducted so far on ocean deoxygenation.”…
Driving the problem is climate change, both directly, as oxygen is less soluble in warmer waters, and indirectly by affecting ocean dynamics. Deoxygenation is also being fueled by nutrient pollution, such as phosphorus and nitrogen, from sewage, agriculture, and aquaculture. Those factors are summed up in an infographic from IUCN.
A four-minute video entitled “A Breathless Ocean” released by the IUCN explains the process further (VIDEO)..READ ON
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/07/new-report-ocean-oxygen-loss-gives-ultimate-wake-call-act-climate
8 Dec: Daily Mail: Next decade is crucial in combating declining ocean oxygen levels which are threatening sealife and could ‘jeopardise humankind’, experts warn
•Study was carried out by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature
•Findings were presented in Madrid at the global UN Climate Change conference
•Climate change and pollution were named as the main causes of oxygen loss
By Raven Saunt
Isabella Lovin, Sweden’s minister for environment and climate, wrote in the report: ‘Whilst we have known about dead zones in the ocean for many decades, ocean warming is now expected to further amplify deoxygenation across great swathes of the ocean.
‘Ocean deoxygenation is putting life at risk. Failing to protect our ocean will jeopardize humankind, as our security, economy and our very own survival depends on it.’
Three of this year’s Nobel Prize laureates recently spoke out about the need to address climate change during a news conference in Sweden.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767609/Next-decade-crucial-combating-declining-ocean-oxygen-levels-jeopardise-humankind.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490
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Another day, another panic. My, ‘A Breathless Ocean’ indeed! What next?
80
All that extra CO2 hiding in the ocean has caused – uh, nevermind.
60
They want to see de-oxygenation? They should wait for the freezing of the geomagnetic excursion we’re being dragged into if they want to see de-oxygenation. Ozone depletion, as in zero, is just the start of it …
30
8 Dec: Accuweather: Bundle up: Coldest air yet this season to send Midwest into deep freeze next week
By Renee Duff
An invasion of Arctic air will plunge temperatures to their lowest levels since last winter and set the stage for the biggest lake-effect snow event so far this season in the Midwest.
The deep freeze next week can come as a shock to Midwestern residents who have not experienced an extreme cold snap since Nov. 10-13. During this stretch, single-digit lows were recorded in Minneapolis.
Next week’s cold push will prove to be more intense, longer-lasting and even dangerous for people and animals who are outside for long length’s of time.
“In terms of the magnitude of the Arctic air on the way, this outbreak will represent the lowest temperatures of the season so far by an average of 10-25 degrees Fahrenheit,” AccuWeather Senior Meteorologist Alex Sosnowski said.
The cold will come rocketing southward out of Canada as a swath of snow spreads from west to east across the Northern tier states from Sunday night into Monday night…
Boston expects some locations from the eastern Dakotas to Minnesota and northern Wisconsin to remain below zero degrees for a period of 24-48 hours from Monday night into Wednesday night.
To make matters worse, the combination of the frigid air, wind and other factors will result in AccuWeather RealFeel® Temperatures 10-30 degrees below zero across the northern Plains and Upper Midwest on Tuesday and Wednesday.
People spending any length of time outdoors will need to make sure they are properly dressed for such frigid conditions.
Make sure you know how to spot cold weather dangers, such as frostbite and hypothermia.
Ensure pets are not kept outside too long and outdoor animals have proper shelter and warmth…
“Even people along the central Gulf coast will feel some chill with highs in the upper 50s to near 60 on Wednesday,” (AccuWeather Senior Meteorologist Alex Sosnowski) added.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/bundle-up-coldest-air-yet-this-season-to-send-midwest-into-deep-freeze-next-week/641321
the bookies are probably as good a bet as the meteorologists when it comes to making predictions about the climate!
8 Dec: UK Express: UK snow forecast: Worrying maps reveals a FORTNIGHT of widespread heavy snow
THE UK will be battered by widespread, heavy snow for two weeks, worrying weather maps have revealed. Here’s the latest UK weather forecast.
By Amalie Henden
The odds on this month finishing as the coldest December ever in the UK have been cut into 1/2 (from 10/11) by bookies Coral.
Coral spokesman John Hill said: “It has been a cold start to December and with temperatures set to fall further, the betting suggests we may well be on course for a record cold month to end the year.
“It is also odds-on in the betting for snow to fall next week, while we may be set for the coldest winter ever in the UK.”
https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1214280/uk-snow-forecast-map-met-office-weather-latest-uk-snow-radar-latest-weather
50
Unsettled weather in Europe and North America with freezing temperatures, torrential rain and snow in Autumn alternating with abnormal droughts. In Australia at the same time, extended drought conditions. Conditions very similar to the start of the little ice age.
30
No biggy, same as 1976…short memory…must have a…sho.or.ort memory
10
Climate crazies and aging lefties to meet in Melbourne in February
Take a look at the line up of speakers. They have pulled some very old leftie polies out of the cupboard including Carmen Lawrence, Peter Garret and two faced John Hewson. The majority still feed off the climate gravy train. No doubt we can expect some bushfires burning around Melbourne so they can claim climate catastrophe. https://climateemergencysummit.org/speakers/
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I fully expect Dr John to, as in the past, completely fail to declare his renewable interests, and our dud press to not ask.
Completely wrong.
20
Any data on the rates of hottest and coldest at long term sites?
11
Waiting for digitisation.
50
🙂
KK
30
Some heat is due to turn up in Victoria tomorrow, according to the weather gurus.
20
Dear Jennifer,
I am a silly old fool, 80 next year, that nobody important would take seriously. Admittedly all my friends and relatives are not gullible to fake news and especially the global warming scam.
I am still working and our 3 children have happy families with 2 children each. All 6 grandchildren have respected jobs and pay tax. The grandchildren’s peers seek my opinion on many matters and we have discussed how biased and uninformed their education has been. With assignments we would discuss the option between getting a good grade and or telling the truth. They saw and understood the difference, they got good grades, knew they were lying and that was the greater lesson.
My frustration is that so much can be said by sceptics simply but because of their intellect they write intellectually. They are above most journalist’s comprehension.
I am proudly sceptical about everything and always encourage research and reasoning. History teaches that wisdom is scepticism and blind acceptance is gullibility.
I believe T shirts and promotions featuring “NOT GULLIBLE” would be a huge way to help people particularly young people to be proud of being “NOT GULLIBLE”
I would like a rally of the “Not Gullible” to promote empirical scientific understanding.
You could ask O.I.S.M. for a copy of the list of scientists. One line per scientist that states their name qualification and institute where the degree was earned protects their privacy but is very credible. On A4 at 14 point portrait stuck together this would be about 250 metres long. That commands attention from even the AlpBC. Even the dumbest of alarmed people see proof that the science isn’t settled.
The promotion would start by announcing a date and place with a request for the Australian army to protect the protesters from potential violent uninformed zealots.
Their Zeal and ignorant state governments would make police unavailable and that controversy starts an interesting news promotion. We are peaceful, the alarmists would want to fight.
We locate on a public holiday in a large garden so that we don’t disrupt anybody.
We carry simple signs with the banner of American scientists. Note Medicine is a science. When listening to Christopher Monkton I found myself surrounded by medical doctors all independent of each other but GPs concerned about their patient’s mental health and serious anxiety that was triggered by AGW propaganda.
It takes several people to carry a ‘banner’ 250 metres long and they should be accompanied with posters of coloured photographs of important scientists.
Joanne Nova, Murry Salby, the Late Bob Carter, Peter Ridd, Ian Plimer & yourself for starters as Australians.
International stand outs include Richard Lindzen, Willie Soon, Roy Spencer, Judith Curry amongst others to display a wide range of related disciplines.
We need signs that are simple. About A1 size. A pale “?” background on simple signs saying things like:
NOT GULLIBLE
Who’s Hansen
Arctic ice gone 1999
Antarctic ice grows
Submarine volcanoes
Polar bear numbers
Vikings in Greenland
Hadrian’s Grapes
No snow in OZ after 1999
Sea Level at Pt Arthur.
Sea Level in Sydney Harbour
Life expectancy
Crops Increase
Barrier Reef safe.
Flat Battery Cars
Solar Panel Toxic Waste.
Windmills kill.
Anxiety kills
This and other simple catchy comments to make people think.
Some people could dress as Vikings and Polar Bears.
All simple but thought provoking.
It would be very helpful for us to wear scepticism proudly as NOT GULLIBLE.
Teenagers particularly would not want to be identified as being GULLIBLE.
I am sending this to Anthony Watts and Joanne.
What do you think?
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Richard – brilliant! Making skepticism acceptable is important. People, and our youth in particular should not be made to feel like criminals merely for questioning a theory.
Perhaps a catchy logo would also help. The traditional media will pretend you don’t exist (much like they did with the internet initially) but if a particular logo keeps popping up all over the place, they won’t be able to suppress it. Waving a flag with such a symbol at any Aussie sports event would get you banned for life of course. But people would ask what that symbol was.
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Maybe Greta the Annoying was right! Sailing instead of flying has reduced her CO2 output so much that we now have snow in Australia in December!
40
If the environment is really a concern for the Australian government, why did OZ export 200 odd million tons of coal last year.
If it’s so bad y’all have to blow up your own old coal power plants….heck isn’t that like feeding your neighbors drug
habit so he won’t steal your stuff? No need to answer…all the world’s governments are similarly lobotomized.
If it were really about the environment we’d stop the ‘pollution’ by closing the mines altogether. But that would raise the
social issues to the level where folks would have to pay attention and make decisions and the game would be up.
So continuing to lie like a rug and rake in the loot is the best strategy in these hottest times evah.
In the states, the issues are coming home to roost in strange ways … in some gourmet circles (which also seem to be very left wing,
for reasons that escape me) there is a near crisis level shortage of certain essential exotic veggies. “organic” farming seems to
have a high incidence of crop failure….for items grown in only a few concentrated places that can be a problem.
High power prices for the poor …. never mind. A shortage of salad argula … major crisis.
I expect the government to step in an day now with crop support policies, due to climate change don’t ya know.
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Re Blair Trewin: From John Daly on “What’s wrong with the Surface Record”.
“We return to the central question. Is the surface record wrong in respect of both the amount of warming reported during the 1920s and in respect of the disputed warming trend it reports since 1979? In the latter case, the surface record is contradicted by both the satellite MSU record and the radio sonde record [2].
This is where individual station records can prove useful. Such records represent real temperatures recorded at real places one can find on a map [23]. As such they are not the product of esoteric statistical processing or computer manipulation, and each can be assessed individually.
Some critics will dismiss individual station records as merely `anomalous’ (in which case most of the non-urban stations would have to be dismissed on those grounds), but when one station acquires an importance far beyond its own little record, no effort is spared to discredit it. This was the fate of Cloncurry, Queensland, Australia, which holds the honour of having recorded the hottest temperature ever measured in Australia, a continent known for its hot temperatures. The record was 53.1°C set, not in the `warm’ 1990s, but in 1889. It was a clear target for revisionism, for how can a skeptical public be convinced of `global warming’ when Cloncurry holds such a century-old record? The attack was made by Blair Trewin of the School or Earth Sciences at the University of Melbourne [27], with ample assistance from the whole meteorological establishment. And all this effort and expense was deployed to discredit one temperature reading on one hot day at one outback station 111 years ago. Stations do matter.”
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G’day Hillbilly33
Have a look here and in the comments. There were more records of extremes attacked.
http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=6350
The excuses for Bourke and Wilcannia are unbelievable. However I give links to show the original observer sheets and screen installation dates for Cloncurry and conclude that it was not from a Stevenson screen. It can be seen that Clement Wragge had not installed one there yet but had sent a rain gauge.
10
Website address for comment 37.
http://www.john-daly.com/ges/surftmp/surftemp.htm
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