Polls are like climate models. You can get any answer you want, but not the one you need.
An immortal headline from Oct 30:
The Guardian declares: Climate crisis affects how majority will vote in UK election – poll
Survey also finds two-thirds of people agree climate is biggest issue facing humankind
Damian Carrington Environment editor, @dpcarrington
…
And of course the greatest landslide in 30 years wasn’t won by the party aligned with teenage girls who promised better weather.
Six weeks before the UK election and the poll served no purpose other than to fool some politicians and the journalists that write about them. The biggest issue facing mankind either got solved before December 12, or perhaps no one gave a toss, they just said what the pollster wanted them to say.
Or how about the July 2019 poll:
Climate more pressing long-term issue than Brexit, say 71% of Britons
Bigger than Brexit? Jeremy ought to have that election wrapped up….
Christian Aid poll finds climate emergency should be a top priority for Boris Johnson
by Harriet Sherwood, The Guardian
Most Britons believe climate change is more important in the long term than Brexit and say it should be a top priority for Boris Johnson’s government, according to an opinion poll. Women and young people are more likely to say that action over climate change is a more pressing priority than issues around Brexit. The ComRes survey, commissioned by Christian Aid, found that 71% of the UK public agreed that climate change would be more important than the country’s departure from the EU in the long term. Six out of 10 adults said the government was not doing enough to prioritise the climate crisis….
…
Neither Guardian journalist asked any hard questions — did people have the option to tick “Total waste of time”,or “Looks like Pagan witchcraft”.
Most surveys have 6 shades of believer and only one kind of skeptic. Without satirical skeptical options most people recognise the poll as a lecture, and just want the interviewer out the door. 30% of people in the US did say Climate change was a total hoax. Has anyone even asked?
Did the surveys ask people how much of their own money they wanted to spend or did they just do the usual apple pie wish list — would you mind if the government paid for nicer weather?
Which is, of course, why real leaders who want to win elections, don’t read The Guardian.
See posts on Polls here, where I’ve said:
Better survey’s show 80% of Australians don’t donate to environmental causes or vote for it. How committed are they? Answer, not even ten bucks a year. On flights, not even two bucks a trip. Survey after survey shows that when people rank issues, climate concerns are flat at the bottom of the barrel. Only 3% of US people think climate is most important issue.
In promoting their climate-change cult,
With questions that tilt,
At degrees of man’s guilt,
To achieve the desired result.
Unfortunately the Conservative’s current environmental stance is for extreme damaging ‘action’. They (Gove esp.) have even entertained the XR fruitcakes.
We’ll just have to hope the truth dawns on them; that it is not a significant vote loser/winner either way (probably soon after a substantial power outage).
“The Green Party was the biggest deposit loser, failing to meet the required 5% threshold in 465 [of just under 500 contested] constituencies.”
The BBC might report it but will they stop and think why, or question their relentless climate propaganda? Nope.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50781957
311
Those hopeful Green candidates lost their money because they believed Guardian propaganda, which is essentially half truths. By my reckoning the games up due to solar forcing (sic).
‘Solar Minimum is becoming very deep indeed. Over the weekend, the sun set a Space Age record for spotlessness. So far in 2019, the sun has been without sunspots for more than 270 days, including the last 33 days in a row. Since the Space Age began, no other year has had this many blank suns.’ wuwt
300
270 and counting 🙂
120
I’ve just consigned the “Just Have a Think” channel on Youtube to my “Garbage” bin.
According to them “Greenland is melting 7 times faster than it has been and Antarctica is melting 3 times faster.”
I will admit I binned it at 75% through and didn’t watch it to the end, so it could have improved over the bit which remained.
Why? Recent offerings have not been great: they’be been remarkably uncritical with no hard questions.
“Climate scientists say …” is the opening. “Climate scientists” is their preferred source(s) with a hard vacuum when it comes to alternative sources. Glacier Girl’srecovery from under the ice in 1991 showed a strong continuous accretion of ice and snow as the aircraft were buried 250 feet or so (c. 75m) under the ice since 1942. Now, there is a project under way to raise a second P38 of the encapsulated flight, E for Echo which by about 2016 (3 years ago) was over 300 feet below the surface.
That’s not a “melting ice cap”, 300 feet is deeper than 250-260 feet, or it was when I last went to school (and that was up to the start of 2017), it’s one where annual rate of accretion has slowed a bit but not stopped.
Then there was The Melting in Antarctica which according to the video’s favourite source, “Climate Scientists”, is now 3 x faster . Three times faster than what? And where? (Maybe I should have watched it to end.) There used to be one volcano under the ice cap where it’s melting in West Antarctica. There is now more than one active volcano under the West Antarctic ice. I can’t remember if it’s 3 or 6, and couldn’t be bothered looking. If it’s three times faster, I’m satisfied to accept 3 volcanoes. There’s more heat there than even the summer sun down there can dispense.
Yes, it’s obviously CoP 26. Scare the herd! Go on! Run!
Liars, Damned Liars and X-Spurts …
http://warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/found-lost-squadron-p-38-piloted-by-lt-col-robert-wilson.html
130
Around 93 underwater volcanoes around the West Antartica peninsula at last count. Together with its high latitude, this part of Antarctica is always the warmest.
60
But elsewhere
https://realclimatescience.com/2019/12/warming-twice-as-fast/
21
No ‘warming’ going on here –
have just checked a bunch of webcams down on the Mainland (the South Island) and it’s SNOTTING down (snowing) yugely! Bigly! Ginormous fat fluffy snowflakes (real ones) falling out of a frozen steely sky, brrrr…
The Remarkables, Cardrona, even little Coronet Peak up the hill from Queenstown is BURIED under crimate den!al summer powder snowfall – must be Boris’ fault.
“I’m dreaming of a white Christmas” 🙂
130
White Christmas is meant to be a Northern Hemisphere thing !!
50
Not any more, Arthur’s Pass and other roads crossing the South Island have been closed because this white Global Warming and Climate Change stuff is already blocking them, according to the tele news. We can expect that to happen in July in the middle of winter but this is December and we’re heading for the middle of Summer.
“Motorists are advised to take extreme care.”
It shouldn’t ever happen in the Southern Hemisphere but it’s going to be rather novel having a white Christmas. 🙂
50
“Climate crisis affects how majority will vote in UK election – poll”
Yep!
We all know how the semantics of “Polling” questions work.
We all know how “Sound Bites “&”Headlines” work.
You have gotta love ironic truth!
[Especially when it was not meant to be hilarious]
90
What wonderful response the election was!
Crisis? What Crisis? Heh!
140
“When you create massive echo chambers by banning or forcing self-censorship of alternative opinions, don’t be surprised when reality doesn’t reflect your social media bubble.”
– Paul J Watson, twitter.
232
I love it how a majority voted against the left’s ideals but they still feel compelled to tell that majority how the government should be run.
The arrogance is sometimes still breathtaking.
80
They have the front to say,
– Boris should be more active on climate change: NO the people didn’t consider that to be a real threat.
– Boris should hold another Brexit vote, NO the people spoke in 2016 and still want out.
– Boris should support open boarders , NO the people want a reduction in numbers and crime.
He could do everything they want and they’d still be attacking him, all they want is their own way or nothing like the psychopaths they are.
80
Yonniestone:
I am thinking of starting a new
scareclimate movement that will use the melting of the polar ice cap as a symbol, and campaign for all coal fired power stations to be shut down immediately and all SUVs to be illegal by the end of 2020.Obviously drastic measures are needed to stop Climate Change.
By the way, that’s on MARS.
40
There’s a reason the left favours one party systems. The people invariably vote the wrong way.
40
Whilst you have portrayed the UK election as another rebuff to climate change the similarity of both sides policies on this issue mean that this conclusion is not clear. What is a clear lesson though from the British election is the incredible socialist indoctrination of our young people. According to Delingpole if only the 18-24 year olds voted the election would’ve been a landslide for Corbyn.
It highlights I think a growing trend which has always been there to some extent. However,Young voters are more left leaning than ever . Thank God for increased life expectancy and the laziness of young people in countries where voting is optional.
But it does highlight an issue for sceptics. The window of opportunity to totally debunk this climate change hysteria is narrowing because the indoctrination of our young is so entrenched that as more of them get to voting age the more influence they will have on election outcomes. These days anyone who is about 30 or less and university educated has been subject to pretty intense climate change radicalisation .it is only a matter of time before they are in a majority unless we can cleanse the education systems of their climate change preachers.
330
By that time, they will be voting conservative.
Socialism promises everything and delivers disaster, which was the lesson from the entire 20th century. Even today Cuba and Venezuela and most of South and Central America are lessons in how to wreck countries with socialism.
Possibly the one thing young people know from the 20th century is that Hitler was an evil Fascist.
What they need to know is Fascists were socialists and the NAZIs were the National Socialistische workers party.
Hitler was a very superstitious vegan socialist who led a Green cult based on indoctrination of young people.
It is why the Greens are desperate to prevent the teaching of European history.
320
Posted elsewhere, the anti Greta sensible right German girl who is not permitted to attend climate conferences, like Christopher Monckton is ignored;
https://thedailycoin.org/2019/12/16/you-gotta-hear-gretas-teen-rival-video/
150
Apparently 19 years of age, but looks much younger.
50
Does it matter If the climate activists take control ?
They will impliment more de-carbonisation programs until the system grinds to a halt (power/energy supply, industry destruction, food shortages, etc) .. until eventually reality will force a rethink and a self correction (Civil or International conflict ? )
Just like teenage car crashes….. Its called “learning the hard way”
And just like the bush fires……let them burn themselves out !
21
G’day Chad,
I partly agree with you when you say “let them burn themselves out!”, but have some major reservations around the questions of when and where they are.
In the current situation it’s going to happen that way anyway, at least to a large degree as the big ones are still “unstoppable” and the best we can hope for is that they become contained. But too many people are suffering as a result of these NPs burning and we have to do something to stop future fires doing the same excursions and damage, with over 750 houses destroyed so far.
Have you listened to the Podcast Pat found at #10.2 below A good interview covering some of the issues.
Cheers,
Dave B
20
David,
The comment was really directed at the “new wave climate action movement”
But with bush fires, I agree we have to protect property, but not preserve the N Parks as they currently stand.
One of the best ways to protect property in the future is to allow these current fires to burn out as much of tHe fuel load as possible, then they wont flare up at the next dry lightening strike.!
You cannot haVe a big fire without a big fuel supply !
I suspect there are some RFS guys who are currently doing this anyway !
11
It matters. Millions will die if they take control, and rebuilding what they have destroyed would be no simple task. They must never take control.
30
‘It is only a matter of time before they are in a majority unless we can cleanse the education systems of their climate change preachers.’
Centre Right Populism in the US, UK and Oz will only grow stronger in the coming decade, but I acknowledge we have a real problem with Trots running the education system and MSM.
The best we can hope for is that the BBC and ABC return to centre, so that the teachers get a chance to think about their collective futures.
121
The best thing that can happen is the ABC/BBC are cut loose to pay their own way. While they are socialist constructs they will always push socialism. In Australia under Australian media laws the ABC would be illegal because such giant information companies become misinformation companies pushing their own agendas and pushing politicians around.
Boris has hinted as much with TV licences in the UK. Why should one publicly funded company have the right to collect money from everyone? 25 Million TV licences at 154 Pounds a year. That’s 3.5Billion pounds.
It is outrageous and archaic in an internet/satellite world to charge TV licences. In Australia, it is just lumped into our taxes.
So we have public service television, public service radio, public service web sites, public service science (CSIRO), public service weather (BOM) and now even public control of National electricity despite privatizing all the power stations and public control of the internet, despite privatizing the telephone companies! And now the power is all in Canberra, itself an entirely public service city. We paid for their windmills and they hide the millions in cash they receive for owning windmills.
Sell the lot. And public servants should not vote. That stop politicians from buying votes by hiring voters as in Victoriastan where Daniel Andrews has hired 50,000 Labor voters.
150
Totally agree, but we need a process and it has to be handled prudently and patiently. The PM wants to bring aunty back to the centre, so that we get a real discussion on a whole range of issues.
Morrison chose Ita and she picked David Speers, game on.
51
So what’s changed from the election 3 1/2 years ago? Surely not the extra . 3.5/80 * 4C UN (+0.175C) IPCC worst case scenario in the very middle of winter? How terrified must the voters have been of the extra 0.2C? Could it be why the Scots voted for the SNP? Or the Irish for Sin Fein. Or the Welsh for Plaid Cymru. Or the Brexit party? Or were they just desperate not to vote for Labor and not brave enough to vote Tory?
Man Made Global Warming is truly shocking. Besides as a professional politician Boris and his very Green partner fully agree. It is the most terrible threat to life in a frozen winter in the UK and had an enormous impact on the election with everyone fearing the 0.175 average warming. And of course, the sudden melting of Greenland and the permafrost.
And it is the sole concern of the voters, as it was in Australia and the US, to offset the massive growth in CO2 from China and India by freezing to death.
140
If it’s in the Guardian, you know that facts and truth are somewhere else, a lot like Twitter.
201
How true.
And Nick Kilvert is still one of the world’s greatest Klimate Sky-entists. Not.
50
Careful or they’ll be claiming “100% reliability”
20
England’s had a global warming landslide.
No. Really. Starting some eight thousand years ago the planet thingy warmed up much more than now, sea levels rose and lumps of Norway’s continental shelf collapsed, finally washing away the land between England and the continent a bit over six thousand years ago.
But sssh, don’t tell the Guardian. They think they know all about landslides and global warming. Actually, they know a lot about stock photos…and that’s it.
140
Seems to fit here
“Monday Mirthiness @ScottAdamsSays nails the universal boogeyman”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/16/monday-mirthiness-scottadamssays-nails-the-universal-boogeyman/
60
Climate crisis affects how majority will vote in UK election – poll”
Ah no…..
Epic fail!
70
Volunteer Fire Fighters ask a former fire chief what about the fuel …
https://volunteerfirefighters.org.au/sorry-mr-mullins-what-about-fuel
80
Well one pattern that appears to be emerging, is that to be at the top level in any significant position, you have to sing from the Establishments’ hymn sheet.
As is becoming more routine, it seems to involve worshipping at the altar of the false “god” of climate change …..
As I’ve said before, for this climate foolishness to have got as far as it has, NGOs, govts & the big end of town all have to work together to push the UN agenda…..
Its hard to respect a lot ( but not all ) of those in positions of power now, as they seem to a man & woman, to be spineless opportunists who wont speak out against the Big Lie, which makes them no better than judas sheep.
170
great stuff:
44m0s to 1h17m59sec: Jane Marwick talks to retired firefighter, Roger Underwood, of BushfireFront.org.au about the bushfires.
2h07m08s to 2h18m12s: Jane Marwick talks to volunteer firefighter, Brian, about hazard reduction.
AUDIO: 2h48m14s: 16 Dec: 2GB: Nights with Jane Marwick
https://www.2gb.com/podcast/nights-with-jane-marwick-monday-16th-december/
BushfireFront.org.au
https://www.bushfirefront.org.au/
110
Thanks Pat,
As you say, great stuff.
That hazard reduction is defined as “clearing” under EPA rules is as mad as defining CO2 as a pollutant by the US EPA.
Those interviews ought to be mandatory listening by Kean et al.
Cheers
Dave B
50
Anyone know if this is the case in Qld?
20
The longer the left wing parties of the world are misdirected from reality the better for all of us as they will eventually cease to be viable parties, except in the major cities where the crazy Greenies are in control. Sort of like the movie Escape from New York we should build walls around the major cities and use them as asylums for the insane and leave them to their own devices with no support from the government. The term rat race that’s often applied to them can then be more appropriate.
80
“Apologies everywhere but no remorse”
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/12/16/apologies-everywhere-but-no-remorse/
60
Also it is amazingly hypocritical of the Greens to blame floods as in the photograph on warming. They are largely due to the new pervasive Green policy of allowing the drainage to clog up, not clearing the channels and effectively turning land back into marshes and swamps and inflicting floods on everyone. For the wildlife.
If people have to suffer, it is their own fault for being born, which was basically thoughtless and living on rivers and in the country instead of the city. And then you get the awful farmers, who are the most culpable destroyers of the lot. They also live in the country, which is again thoughtless. They will be made to pay for their crimes, up against the wall according to Grim Greta.
170
Well how else are you going to re-introduce malaria?
80
Yes, there is a myth that malaria is a tropical disease. It was the scourge of Siberia and Northern Russia. 30,000 died in the building of St. Petersburg. In these near arctic areas you need super tropical strength repellent. The sky can be black with mosquitoes. It wiped out the early settlement in Venice on the island of Torcello, which is still a ghost settlement. The last thing you want near a city is a swamp. They live on the waterfowl the Greenies like so much and arrive on the wind carrying plague. Malaria is still the world’s biggest killer.
130
Climate change more important than Brexit?
Guess I would have voted ‘Yes’to that.
We insist on allowing climate change to do huge damage to our economy, whether climate changes or not!
By the way, did you catch this from GWPF today? It’s a few years old now, but seems more relevant than ever.
http://www.thegwpf.com/yes-prime-minister-sir-antony-jay-calls-for-the-bbc-to-be-cut-to-size/
Yes, Minister.
Now that was REAL comedy.
50
The pollsters on climate exult,
In promoting their climate-change cult,
With questions that tilt,
At degrees of man’s guilt,
To achieve the desired result.
200
Brilliant Ruairi 🙂
100
The ABC (radio) yesterday put the election loss down to uneducated voters and said it was a close election and if they didn’t have the first past the post system the results would have been different !
Boris won because of Brexit and because he wasn’t Corbyn , anything else is so far down the list for the majority of voters it became irrelevant.
MSM love to rig polls and stack news in the hope that someone will be stupid enough to believe them and vote according to their wishes .
History however is overwhelmingly not on their side .
120
Yep!
Where have I heard something similar….hmmmmm….
Hillarity Clinton and her supporters were/are correctly saying they got more votes than Trump.
In either case what they say does not matter. Every country has their own voting system. You can’t pick and choose after the event.
Get over it!
140
Yes, the popular vote. A fr*ud itself with many millions of uninvited guests who vote Democrat, especially in the megacities around Los Angeles and San Francisco. And they all want more. And the Democrats want more free voters. Sanders is offering them free health care and free education, something ordinary Americans do not get.
Take those away and Donald won the popular vote anyway but in a Union of states after the terrible Civil War, there has to be some accounting for those people who do not want to live in crowded Los Angeles (14m), Chicago Lands (12m) or New York/New Jersey (17.5) which together make the biggest state in the Union! In fact massive “Greater New York” would be closer to 20 million, half of California. Then Atlanta.
Unlike Australia though, 85% of all Americans do not live in megacities. In Victoriastan, an amazing 83% of all people live in Melbourne. Country people deserve two votes for feeding all these people.
150
“if they didn’t have the first past the post system the results would have been different !”
If they didn’t have first past the post voting, people may have voted a different way.
If Australia had first past the post the results may have been different, the liberals majority may have been greater. I can find at least six seats where the liberals got more first preference votes, but labor won the seats with green preferences.
70
If the Uk had preferential voting system like Australia
The parties would be different
And lots of people would have voted differently
To how they voted last Thursday
10
Boris Johnson 14M votes, Jeremy Corbyn 10.3M, no-one else gained more than 4M especially the Greens who only got 865 thousand votes. (PA news) So it probably doesn’t matter much what system you pick, the conservatives nailed it.
Interesting to note, though, that 1.2M votes gets the Scottish Nationalist Party 48 seats in the House of Commons whereas the Greens get just 1. The DUP got 244 thousand votes and 8 seats; Farage’s Brexit Party got 640 thousand votes but not a single seat.
The issue here is that some parties are concentrated into smaller areas/populations so can get seats by winning higher percentages of votes in those areas. If the UK was a federation of similar sized states, that might have been interesting.
https://www.citymetric.com/politics/what-would-regions-england-look-federal-uk-2679
Mercia anyone?
20
The Liberals cum Liberal Democrats have been calling for Proportional voting in the UK for years, without ever explaining how it could be made to work. And I think one of the drawbacks is that the public expect to know the result of the election next morning, not wait 4 or 5 weeks under, say, the Hare-Clarke system.
This might change the predominance of London but for that reason will be fought against by the bureaucrat in Whitehall.
00
13 Dec: TimesHigherEducation: Split between graduate, non-graduate voters has bearing on universities
As Conservatives turn towards non-graduate voters, they may find universities a tempting target for economic and cultural hits, writes John Morgan
(John Morgan is the deputy news editor at Times Higher Education)
The theory that education, not social class, is now the defining divide in UK politics got another boost from the Conservatives’ general election victory. ***Will Jennings, professor of political science and public policy at the University of Southampton, produced analysis (LINK) for Sky News’ election night coverage showing the Conservative vote increasing most sharply in areas with low numbers of graduates and the Labour vote collapsing most in those areas.
“This partly reflects the greater propensity for younger people to also have higher levels of education than older generations, but also generational differences in values and identities – on issues such as Brexit and climate change,” he wrote, describing education as “perhaps the foremost factor behind [the] realignment of British politics”…READ ALL
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/split-between-graduate-non-graduate-voters-has-bearing-universities
13 Dec: Sky UK: General election: The map of British politics has been redrawn
Election analyst ***Will Jennings reflects on the result and says Brexit is as much a symptom as a cause.
By Professor Will Jennings, Sky News election analyst
(Will Jennings is an election analyst for Sky News and professor of political science and public policy at the University of Southampton)
MAP: The election map after all 650 constituencies declared their results
Repeating the pattern observed in 2017, the Conservatives made their largest gains in areas that had voted to Leave in the EU. Some of Labour’s heaviest defeats were in constituencies that had voted for Brexit by a margin of more than 60%…
In 2019, the sharpest divide of all was not class, but education. The largest swings from Labour to the Conservatives were in constituencies with fewer graduates and more people with no qualifications…
A similar pattern is observed for age, with the largest swings from Labour to the Conservatives in constituencies with older populations.
This partly reflects the greater propensity for younger people to also have higher levels of education than older generations, but also generational differences in values and identities – on issues such as Brexit and climate change…
https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-the-map-of-british-politics-has-been-redrawn-11885274
Uni of Southampton: Professor ***Will Jennings, Deputy Head of School, Research and Enterprise, Professor of Political Science and Public Policy
Previously I was a British Academy Postdoctoral Research Fellow at the London School of Economics and Political Science and a Research Fellow at the University of Manchester. I completed my doctorate at the University of Oxford in 2004…
I am currently engaged in a number of on-going research projects and collaborations. The ‘TrustGov’ project – with Pippa Norris (Harvard and Sydney University) and Gerry Stoker (Southampton) – funded through a large grant from the UK’s Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC), investigates worldwide patterns of trust and trustworthiness of national and global governance agencies…
I have been elections and polling analyst for Sky News since 2017 (and previously was a member of the BBC election analysis team for the 2010 general election)…ETC
https://www.southampton.ac.uk/politics/about/staff/wjj1c11.page
30
***democracy is not their thing:
10 Dec: Guardian: Britain’s young people are radicalised and registered. Will this be our election?
Our generation is even more politicised than in 2017, and the spike in registration is a reason to hope that change is coming
by Micha Frazer-Carroll (opinions editor at gal-dem)
PIC: A climate protest in central London, September 2019 (GRETA PLACARD)
Is the “youthquake” of 2017 about to be upstaged? After just a glimpse at the voter registration figures for the upcoming election, it looks as if the next quake might chart even higher on the Richter scale. More than 3 million people registered to vote between the election being called and the deadline – 875,000 more than the same period in 2017 – and two-thirds of them were under 35.
There was a lot of debate surrounding 2017’s surge in young voting, including whether or not it actually happened. After a “youthquake” was initially declared after the election, a widely reported paper based on the British Election Study claimed that there was no substantial rise in youth turnout – leading many to declare the “youthquake” a myth. But more recent analysis from political scientists Patrick Sturgis and Will Jennings, indicating a large increase in turnout in 2017 among under-30s, suggests it was real after all. There is also much we don’t know about how this year’s youth registration spike will affect the final result on 13 December…
Take Brexit. Three-quarters of young people back a second referendum, and so the effect of watching three years of deadlock in parliament, alongside a swelling, youth-led People’s Vote campaign, can’t be overstated. In the two years that have elapsed since the last general election, news also broke of two notable Brexit scandals – Cambridge Analytica, and the revelation that the Vote Leave campaign broke electoral law. For young remainers who already felt let down by the referendum result, this election presents a genuine opportunity for a second referendum, ***or to simply reverse the decision altogether…
Most broadcasters and politicians were always going to frame this as the “Brexit election”, but there is another issue at the forefront of our minds. Young people will be around to feel the effects of the climate crisis for longer than our parents, and we have channelled our eco-anxiety into Extinction Rebellion and School Strike for Climate protests over the last year. Both movements speak to a mounting feeling of urgency, and an interest in organising to influence policy. While not all those who are engaged in climate activism will be old enough to vote, two cohorts of that active, politically savvy school-strike generation will have entered the voting bracket since 2017. They will undoubtedly see this election as a means to tackle the climate emergency…
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/09/britain-young-people-registered-election
TWEET: Micha Frazer, Opinions Editor @galdemzine. Formerly @HuffPostUK. Also writes for @Guardian @ObserverUK @Independent @VogueMagazine @Dazed
have taken some time off social media since the exit poll. like many others i’m utterly heartbroken, but also very mentally drained. finding it hard to keep thinking and reading and reacting. am going to take some more time for rest and quiet. i think that’s an ok thing to do
i don’t think anyone needs to have an instant take if they don’t have the mental energy to have one. we need to think carefully about the best uses of our energy in this historical yet urgent fight. we also need to find some way of establishing solidarity
15 Dec 2019
reply: Marverine Cole, Multi-award-winning Journalist (ex @skynews @5_News Presenter) | Head of undergrad @BCUJournalism | @TSV_ORG Trustee
Ditto. Not reading anything of it. Sending big hugs xxx
reply: Shaista Aziz, Campaigner. Clore, @theRSAorg Fellow @UKLabour Oxford Cllr
40
4 billion PER YEAR – would buy a couple of new hospitals per year, better health services…not line the pockets of the banksters and give faceless UN beaurcrats more power….
Time to defund the ABC and the UN…..
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-17/what-youd-spend-to-halt-climate-change-and-what-you-could-get/11784704
“With $4 billion, Chief Economist for the Australia Institute, Richard Denniss, said we could fit around a million houses with rooftop solar systems.”
— yep….accelerating the destruction of our foirst workld electrical grid and send us back to stone age reliability….
“rench energy company Neoen recently revealed that South Australia’s giant Tesla battery cost $90 million. We could buy 44 a year at that price.
— see comment above.
“Alternatively, we could fund the equivalent of a Snowy Hydro 2.0 scheme every couple of years with change to spare.”
— where does the water come from??…Who comes up with these dumb ideas?
“Snowy Hydro 2.0 will store enough energy at a given time to power 3 million homes for a week.”
— And when the water is gone? see comment above.
“Or, we could allocate $4,000 per house to optimise the energy efficiency of one million houses each year, with things like insulation, smart meters and energy-saving appliances.”
— Or you could just leave the grid alone and sharply curtail how much solar is allowed on the grid to preserve its stability.
“How to double your dollar
“But if $4 billion doesn’t sound like enough, Vice Chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), Professor Mark Howden, says he would work to double it.
“I would set up an autonomous organisation to run this — independent of government, preferably with charity status — and then use this as a vehicle to engage with philanthropists, et cetera, to multiply it up. Let’s say dollar for dollar.
— Just what we need …more beaurocracy for ideas that dont work…..
60
Or the $4 billion a year could be put towards the repairs and rebuilding that needs to be done after fires and floods.
10
shades of GetUp:
VIDEO: 1m44s: 15 Dec: LBC: IDS (Iain Duncan Smith) accuses Momentum of being a “cancer” that has “infected” modern politics
Iain Duncan Smith “pointed the finger” at Momentum for the “nastiest, foulest campaign” that he’s ever seen.
Iain Dale asked Iain Duncan Smith about his campaign in Chingford and Woodford Green.
He faced fierce competition from Labur’s Faiza Shaheen (WHO LOST)..
IDS said: “I think this was the nastiest, foulest campaign that I’ve ever seen fought in my 27 years in Parliament.
“We had death threats, we had threats of violence, I had women, female workers chased down the street by carloads of Labour badge-wearing young men, screaming that they’re going to smash their face and deal with them.
“We had graffiti all over our office, we had a dead rat dismembered rat that came through the mail, which obviously they were hoping somebody would open.
The police had to be called in. We had all this vile abuse on on the social media, which was threats of burning the building down, sorting people out, worse to come. I mean, it was astonishing, actually.”
He continued: “This cancer that has now affected body politic and I genuinely, genuinely point the finger now this Momentum crowd that have been coming in to support the Labour Party.
“They have really shifted the balance and I don’t care what anyone says, it is appalling, absolutely appalling.
If people don’t agree with you, the objective is now to intimidate them off the place and that’s not how British politics works.”…
Faiza Shaheen refuted the idea that Momentum had anything to do with her campaign…READ ON
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/ids-momentum-infected-society-cancer/
14 Sept: Guardian: Students, this is your chance to get Boris Johnson and the Tories out. Here’s how
***Momentum’s new website will help young people to make their votes count in target marginals
by Laura Parker, national coordinator, ***Momentum
From spurious spending reviews to choreographed speeches with police as props, Boris Johnson and the Tories are obviously in full election mode, and the nature of their authoritarian, populist programme is clear: Johnson is going to offer voters a hard Brexit, brutal borders, state racism and a ramped-up culture war, all distracting from yet another obscene transfer of wealth to the richest in society…
This is all the more reason for Labour to start our campaign right now. While they have the money and much of the media, we have people power…
Seats such as Newcastle-under-Lyme and Canterbury only went red in 2017 because they are home to large numbers of students at university and in further education. In fact, we’ve identified five seats that will swing to Labour if just 19,000 young voters can be registered – including Loughborough, Truro and Falmouth and the cities of London and Westminster. Indeed, Johnson himself will be vulnerable in Uxbridge and South Ruislip – with a majority of only 5,034, and facing up to thousands of students at Brunel University London – also based in Uxbridge – who are likely to swing behind his opponent, Ali Milani, the 24-year-old Labour candidate and former National Union of Students vice-president…
The #stopthecoup protests have galvanised and united Labour’s base in opposition to Johnson’s anti-democratic, establishment power grab…
The Conservatives have become notorious for their attempts to restrict voting rights – following the playbook of Donald Trump’s Republican party…
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/14/students-boris-johnson-tories-momentum-votes-marginals
50
The Global temperature has risen by only 1 degree Celsius in the last 300 years. There is no climate emergency but it’s turning out to be a great money spinner for a lot people.
180
Shoosh Mick. My mate Alex Turnbull said there is a huge amount of money to be made out of investing in renewables and trading in carbon credits. Al Gore, The Turnbulls, The UN powerbrokers, Greta, her associates and I are set to make a fortune. As such, we don’t want the unwoked to be stalled in being woke do we.
50
And besides, the three elections were all supposed to be Climate elections.
Trump
Morrison
Johnson
What is clear is that Climate is irrelevant to elections. Conservatives could not care less.
The climate pushers on the left don’t believe it anyway
And for the black shirted thugs of AntiFA, it is just an excuse to riot, as we have seen in London, Seattle. They would never vote conservative anyway.
140
AntiFA. funded by George Soros.
160
That headline could even be true because a lot of people would vote for the party least likely to waste taxpayers money on the climate crisis fraud.
50
Quote. “Women and young people are more likely to say that action over climate change is a more pressing priority than issues around Brexit”.
We don’t let children sit in parliament, perhaps that should be extended to women too.
30
Its a bit late to disenfranchise women, better send them to reeducation camps until they see reason.
30
We do let children sit in parliament…ever seen the brawls at question time?
Its like a recess-time scuffle over an unclaimed bag of lollies…..
40
What climate crisis?
100
To be honest I think the Guardian is now being paid by Greenpeace and the like to run this constant climate twaddle every single day. The Guardian uses tax havens and the like to hide its opaque finances, so I think they are pretty much a subsidiary of the Dutch stifting Greenpeace BV. Nothing except money explains their ongoing daily tsunami of climate propaganda. While their core socialist slant suggests former Soviet active measures.
70
Of course the ABC have a lot in common with the Guardian when it comes to ideology and just to prove a point I made in a previous post about how they try and CoN the sheeple .
The survey they did on their own viewers yielded around 50,000 of the faithful so any results are heavily biased to the extreme green left .
They now say that the majority of Australians would spend $200 a year to stop bushfires .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-17/what-youd-spend-to-halt-climate-change-and-what-you-could-get/11784704
I’d gladly donate two cents
30
Nice graphics and clever propaganda.
30
Disgraceful propaganda massively in need of fact-checking. What a load of codswallop!
10
And will be some venom released, when women become more aware, they have been conned.
No reference of course to the devoted women on the so call skeptical side, perusing, and reporting on science.
Electricity price, and the inevitable reduction in the standard of living. Coupled with job losses. May finally flick that switch.
70
The maternal instinct, plus lack of interest in science and politics is a real stumbling block. Virtue signalling political correct women are ferocious and not to be trifled with.
60
I love your use of commas to shroud your meaning in mystery.
411
OT but Victoriastan has a forecast lack of reserve later today and at the moment the unreliables are proving to be exactly that .
Can’t wait for Friday when it’s supposed to really hot .
50
Frankly, I’m looking forward to major grid failure.
It’s the only thing that will wake up the Sheeple, plus I’m looking forward to using my generator and flashlights.
80
Even Qld seems to have been relying on net imported power lately.
SA and Vic are importing
TAS have all pumps maxed out + wind and gas to feed Vic
NSW coal doing the heavy lifting again
81
For us poor wights trapped in Victoriastan while the internet stays up we can look at https://www.powercor.com.au/outages/outage-map/ and https://www.outagetracker.com.au/ to get an indication of the truly unreliable grid that has been imposed upon us by the unprosecuted criminals in Spring Street; the real entertainment is in trying to understand the behaviour of the interconnectors at https://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#nem-dispatch-overview.
90
This is mainly because Queensland is consuming so much power.
While NSW is consistently (well, mostly every day, year round) is far and away the largest power consuming State in the Country, Queensland was that largest power consuming State yesterday. (Monday)
Usually Queensland (now, and for quite a while now, the second highest power consuming State in Oz) is around 1000MW lower at the peak than NSW, yesterday, it was around 800MW higher than NSW, and NSW was around its usual maximum. Queensland was consuming 9400MW at that mid afternoon peak at 3PM, and that’s around 1500MW more than the usual peak in Queensland, so they would have needed all the power they could get.
Incidentally, at that evening peak at around 6PM, when everyone gets home from work and does all their things in their homes that they usually do at that time every night, the Country was consuming 28000MW. The overall peak for the day, as is usual in Summer, was mid afternoon, and it was 29700MW at around that 3PM time slot.
However, during that evening peak at around 6PM, coal fired power was delivering 18000MW, 66% of the total. Rooftop solar was at 1000MW and falling like a rock, as was commercial solar, also at 1000MW and also falling like a rock. Wind was at 1200MW (4%) and the rest was hydro and natural gas.
So, thank heavens for coal fired power, on tap when it’s needed the most eh!
Tony.
180
Tony I’m glad that you are always around t
To keep us posted on what is happening
With the power grid in Oz.
Thanks !
80
Tony,
Im guessing its the weather (heat = more A/c). that causes these variations in demand day to day.
Today at 6pm, QLD is approx 1 GW less than yesterday, whilst Vic (+1GW), and SA (+0.5GW) , are way higher than yesterday.
Maybe Bing Lee have had a blow out sale on A/c this year ?
31
lately I think its more about shunting around excess generation rather than who actually needs power
30
They only generate what is actually being consumed.
I know it’s off topic here, but the question was asked.
Consider this, and keep in mind it’s only the three majors they worry about the most, NSW, Queensland and Victoria, and there’s just under 90% of all power consumption there, so the two tiddlers, SouthAus and Tassie, are a lot easier to handle, but when you lose a lot from one of those big three, then there will be trouble, and I really don’t think you’ll see that. There will be ways to lower consumption, and that is at the expense of the alumimium smelters, and other huge Industry now driven away from Oz. However, lose a big city and you are in trouble, and I can foresee a future of legal action from the big Supermarkets especially if cities start to go down, so that WILL NOT be allowed to happen.
Queensland/NSW and NSW Victoria have the largest two of those six Interstate Interconnectors.
Let’s pretend that Victoria is going to have a huge consumption day, well above average, and they’ll know within a margin if and when that will be, say, a day in advance.
Victoria can’t quite cover it on their own.
NSW and Queensland both ramp up for that day in question.
Those two Interconnectors in the North both feed in excess power into Northern NSW.
The power normally consumed in Northern NSW gets fed into Sydney. The power normally fed into Sydney from the South can now be diverted into Victoria, plus maybe ramping up the four gas Units at Uranquinty as well.
Snowy Hydro’s six Tumut Three pumped Hydro Units ramp up and along with the other two biggies in that Snowy Scheme, Tumut Two and Murray One and Two can also now feed into Victoria.
if they need more, then they’ll use it from Basslink, and any spare wind left over from SouthAus, but rather than rely on ANY wind, they will prefer to use reliable power, hence those real Units I have mentioned.
Now, what it ….. ‘looks like’ is that Queensland is keeping Victoria afloat by generating that excess power and sending it South. However, that Queensland power would not make it anywhere even close to the Victorian border, so it works exactly like I have explained.
The opposite applies if Queensland is having a big day as well. NSW is in the middle so it can get it from the South and also from the North if needed.
That’s how the power is ‘moved around’.
They still only generate what is being consumed, plus losses.
That’s why an outright grid failure is a (real) long shot, as they can always move power around from somewhere or other.
Tony.
70
They certainly are not just shunting excess power around to use it.
TAS is running everything its got all day..Hydro, Gas, Wind, Solar, etc. way more power rhan they can consume, and all being fed to VIC.
Normally TAS (the battery of Australia !). Will do this for the mainlanf peak periods , but then cut back and “recharge” from VIC overnight. But thay have not been able to do that recently.
That is exceptional and unsustainable, TAS with run its lakes dry if it kept that up for long !
41
On the subject of Media , political ,influence, censorship, etc..
Is anyone else disturbed by the changes at Mcquarrie radio..2GB etc ?
Since the takeover by 9 Entertainment, there has been a raft of changes of top presenters ,. The most recent being Steve Price and Ross Greenwood ..both firm “skeptics”
Previously similar fate was delt to Chris smith and Mike Smith.
…i am waiting for Alan Jones and R Hadley to anounce their “early retirement” to complete the “skeptic clensing” that seems to be happening !
who pulls the Strings at 9Ent. ?
Hopefully , guys like Price will find a slot on Sky or some other national media voice.
91
A foreigner by the name of George Soros acquired a substantial shareholding in Channel 9 and recently they acquired Fairfax Group of newspaper and Macquarie Radio.
60
Climate Change is a pressing issue. The government has to ordee the weather to be have more sunny days and less torrential rain and strong winds. All it takes is a white paper so not much cost.
30
Oh dear, COP25 failed and it’s all Australia’s fault, according to some:
The Climate Council’s Will Steffen, a climate scientist, labelled Australia’s performance at COP 25 “disgusting”.
The 25th Conference of Parties (COP25) in Madrid concluded two days late, but it was a lacklustre result which saw Australia, joined by Brazil, China, Saudi Arabia and the United States emerge as major antagonists pushing for accounting loopholes and weakened commitments. It was widely condemned by much of the international community.
Disappointment. That is the word many are using at the close of the latest United Nations climate talks in Madrid. And many of those people are pointing to Australia — among a handful of countries — as part of the problem.
Appalling waste of resources by our Australian Government owned SBS and ABC. Save electricity, shutdown SBS and ABC.
110
Bully COP.
10
“COPD”
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/copd/symptoms-causes/syc-20353679
10
I’m not sure that the premise of the article is correct. It could easily be argued that Climate Change as an issue did not sway the UK election result because Boris Johnson has stated support for the need to combat Climate Change (even if only to keep peace in his household).
This one is a wait and see – I can only hope that Boris listens to the right advisors and does the basic math that shows how farcical CAGW is and that even if valid, how ridiculous the concept of “fighting climate change” becomes when China and India are exempt from emission caps.
80
OT, but an interesting video about sea level rise (from David at realclimatescience)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wq9QYgIPR4
10
The Guardian didn’t do too well on the “burger poll” either
“UN bureaucrats chow down on burgers – while attacking meat”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/16/un-bureaucrats-chow-down-on-burgers-while-attacking-meat/
” So ban meat, it is, especially beef. But what do you suppose was the big seller for anyone looking for lunch at the UN climate conference? Burger King! Delicious all-meat American burgers, with not a single one of Burger King’s latest meatless Whoppers in sight. ”
“The Hypocritical Oath” on full display
60
And
“Gore’s investments are all in fake food now, so it’s unsurprising that they’re attempting to ruin farmers just like they ruined coal and want to ruin fracking. America’s unionized manufacturing workers need to understand that if Democrats win the election next their they’re next. Quit listening to wannabe Democrats who run your union. They’ll do anything to get their government jobs while you’re poor.”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/16/un-bureaucrats-chow-down-on-burgers-while-attacking-meat/#comment-2872857
30
Dear Climate,
Merry Christmas!
And remember, it’s OK to change.
Love,
Mick xo
50
Piers Corbyn is the brother of Jeremy Corbyn and is a “climate change denier”.
He is a meteorologist and a successful long range weather forecaster.
He has a number of videos on YouTube.
See video: https://youtu.be/UvHMhZ1T964
Piers Corbyn: “Man-made climate change does not exist”.
90
If ‘the climate emergency’ was so important to UK voters, the Green Party would have won hands down. But they got about 3% of the vote.
The Grauniad likes to talk to itself and the BBC.
50
I thought the purpose of COP25 was to worked out where to have COP26 so they can get in early with their flight bookings even though it means more carbon emissions (except for Greta of course) who has a zero carbon footprint……doesn’t she?
30
Most don’t need flight bookings. Most fly to climate conferences in private jets.
30
Yes Greta has a zero Carbon footprint. Cop26. Glasgow. They chose that host city as it is easier for Greta to walk there.
For us to attend and have a zero footprint, we would have to swim from Sweden to Denmark, walk to Dunkirk, swim across the channel and then walk to Glasgow. We need to do that within a year, without breathing or eating.
It is proven that messiahs are very capable of walking on water and that prophets can divide a sea.
As she is a proven prophet, I believe that she will walk to the coast of Norway, divide the North sea and walk along that sea bed straight to Glasgow.
Shame on you for disbelieving. You Denier!!!
10
behind paywall:
Vegan Rising activist group loses charity status
In-Depth-The Australian – 5 hours ago
17 Dec: Age: Vegan Rising stripped of charity status after Melbourne CBD shutdown
By Simone Fox Koob
A vegan activist group that shut down Swanston Street and caused traffic chaos across the city during a protest earlier this year has had its charity status revoked.
Vegan Rising was on Tuesday stripped of its special tax status under a ruling by the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission that the group’s vegan goals would have detrimental effects on sections of the public and that it had not kept up with record-keeping obligations…
Thirty-six people were charged and later admitted in court to causing an obstruction during the Melbourne protest but avoided a conviction as part of a court order handed down in September…
Vegan Rising’s campaign director Kristin Leigh said the charity regulator told them shortly after the protest that they were under investigation for failing to meet obligations to the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission…
There are approximately 56,000 charities registered in Australia, and about 15 are deregistered on average by the regulator each year.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/vegan-rising-stripped-of-charity-status-after-melbourne-cbd-shutdown-20191217-p53kqw.html
30
17 Dec: Fox News: Climate activists seen in video trying to block freight train hauling coal, tweet claims
by Edmund DeMarche
An environmental reporter in Massachusetts posted a video on Twitter late Monday that she said showed a freight train hauling coal being met with a group of climate change activists on a dark track.
The train was seen moving slowly through Worchester, Mass., and about a dozen activists with small lights could be seen surrounding the tracks. The train’s horn was blaring, but the activists appeared to continue to give it chase. The train was headed to New Hampshire, the reporter wrote.
Miriam Wasser, a reporter for WBUR, Boston’s NPR station, posted the clip and wrote that the train was alerted about people on the track after a call to the emergency hotline. It was unclear if the activists were part of a organized group…
Earlier this month, the Boston Globe reported that freight tracks were blocked by activists at various points in New Hampshire, including Worcester, Ayer and Hooksett, N.H.
The paper quoted Marla Marcum, the director of the Climate Disobedience Center, who noted that a coal power plant in the area “pollutes the river and causes asthma and contributed to climate change.”
An after-hours email from Fox News to the group was not immediately returned. 350 New Hampshire, an activist group in the state, wrote that no one was hurt, but the train “refused to stop.”
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-hampshire-climate-activists-seen-in-video-trying-to-block-freight-train-hauling-coal-tweet-claims
behind paywall:
Extinction Rebellion activists released on bail after Supreme …
Courier Mail Brisbane – 7 Dec 2019
CLIMATE protesters arrested for blocking a coal train heading to Brisbane have been sensationally released after a last-ditch Supreme Court ..
40
behind paywall:
Push to strip ‘fake charity’ of its tax breaks
Courier Mail – 7 Dec 2019
ENVIRONMENTAL warrior Greenpeace faces being stripped of its tax deductibility status as Morrison Government MPs label it “a fake charity” …
30
Not before time.
00
If only these people had jobs to introduce a little bit of reality into their lives.
AKK
00
They have avoided the logical course of action required that could possibly improve their local situation.
Sadly this is too often the case with activists.
Why weren’t they contacting local authorities to have the claimed chemical and particulate pollution dealt with.
Recently in NSW, as an example, a government monitored coal fired power station was given permission to not service or renew its scrubbers, precipitators etc.
You have to ask, where was the activists focus in this matter and then ask why was this able to happen.
The answer is Money.
Possibly there were “considerations” and “offsets” at work behind the scenes.
But, talking of money, what about all the money “saved” by all levels of government in avoiding maintenance of the Bush for fifty years. Is this money piled up somewhere and accounted for or has it been “used”?
It’s only two weeks til we get to the magical 2020 that has the promise of a new world.
Will we finally see Responsible and Ethical Government, Truth in Government and most importantly Accountability in Government? Not bloody likely.
As if in response to that question recent events in our local government have left me a bit Despondent and the only word that comes to mind being;
Plunder.
DKK
00
Latest Pointman
“The UK general election of 2019 – Aftermath.”
https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2019/12/14/the-uk-general-election-of-2019-aftermath/
11
The Guardian was right in the sense that people did vote based on climate change. The prospect of climate socialism was obviously viewed as a far greater crisis by the general public.
30
In the long term..sure.
The stuff that’s in the long term is more important than the stuff that’s in the short term. The question is meaningless, a rigged ppoll that was bound to get that answer. Do I care more about the long term than the short term? No, I don’t. I know I’m going to be alive in the short term, but the long term? Unknown.
10
The power supply could become much more accute soon if NSW bush fires force h shutdown of the Mt Piper coal generator , whicch is very possible…..according to news reports .
Could be an interesting few days !
21
More propheting from the Guardian
“Guardian: Aussie Bushfires are Australia’s Climate Change “Chernobyl Moment” ”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/17/guardian-aussie-bushfires-are-australias-climate-change-chernobyl-moment/
20