Proving that actual carbon reduction is totally irrelevant…
It doesn’t matter what any nation does. The CO2 blame-game is a fashion contest and success is not measured in megatons, but with megaphones.
Over the last 30 years, the Australian population has grown faster than nearly any other western nation on Earth. At the same time the Australian GDP more than doubled. Despite that and against all the odds of being a large, remote, thinly spread population which makes a living from industrial mining and agriculture and is further on Earth from anywhere, each Australian has reduced their carbon dioxide emissions by 40% each.
In a normal world, if environmentalists cared at all about carbon dioxide, Australia would be the star of the Kyoto Agreement. Instead, when nearly all the major nations are failing to meet their Paris agreements, plus the US has left, Indonesia has threatened to, somehow when we are one of the only nations trying to keep up with this game, we are the big evil polluters?
Dear Australians, it’s a con, and we are The Mark.
This carbon reduction comes at a price: We stole land off our farmers without compensation, locked up native regrowth and created million-hectare fire hazards all over the country, and we pay the highest electricity rates in the world.
Emissions per capita and per dollar of real GDP, year to June 1990 to 2019
Australian per capita emissions reductions, Australian Greenhouse Office
Our national leaders need to start getting better at negotiating. They undersell our target and our achievements. Isn’t it time to talk “per capita”?
Details:
- Over the period from 1989-90 to June 2019, Australia’s population grew strongly 49% ( from 17.0 million to around 25.4 million).
- Australia’s real GDP (chain volume measures) grew 137% expanding from $0.8 trillion in 1989-90 to around $1.9 trillion in the year to June 2019.
Emissions from the electricity sector are experiencing a long term decline, down 15.0 per cent from the peak recorded in the year to June 2009. Emissions in the NEM for the September quarter 2019 decreased by 1.5 per cent on a seasonally adjusted and weather normalised basis compared with the previous quarter.[3] For the September 2019 quarter, generation from renewables increased 20.3 per cent primarily due to increases in wind generation (21.4 per cent) and solar generation (33.5 per cent).
Past Posts on this
Those Green Australians! Our emissions per person fell 28% since 1990 (2013)
REFERENCE
Quarterly Update of Australia’s National Greenhouse Gas Inventory: Australia’s National Greenhouse Accounts, Department of Environment. June 2019 PDF
The Climate doomers hate a downward trend.
170
Jo that is an excellent post
Thank you for telling us the truth.
However to the Greenists of the world
And Australia
It simply does not matter.
Why ?
Because WE ARE ALL SINNERS HERE IN AUSTRALIA !
We are tainted by the original sin of being wealthy & prosperous
So what ever we do
WE ARE SINNERS !
We will never pass through the eye of the Green needle into the Green Nirvana
Except we accept poverty and obedience from Greta & her greenist minions !
160
To hell the useless greenie fools, it’s the Lib/Nat fools who are ignoring it, and about to do the real damage.
231
We are SINNERS
We have dug up & burned the forbidden
Coal & oil & gas !
We are excluded from the Greenist Gardens
FOREVER !
Woe is us !
81
Oy vay, Bill, what’s wid all da caterwauling?
If you’ve not emitted what you expected but less — and from Jo’s graph, it looks as though you lot have met your Paris requirements, den sit back and relax in da sun — it’s not terribly radioactive just yet dat’s for later in da Maunder-2 Minimum. 😀
40
Sophocles I hear your wisdom
And will do as you advise.
But I needed to let off some humorless sarcasm
For any benighted Greenist wandering past the blog.
50
Interesting reading
A cautionary tale….
https://www.thegwpf.com/the-role-of-distributed-generation-in-the-uk-blackout-of-9-august-2019/
10
When I started business I got a power bill of A$10k/quater to run my offices. This was at 3.5c/kWhr Only ten years ago. The latest price offer is 21.5c/kWhr starting January 22nd. An increase of 22% from last year.
How can anyone run a large office? Let alone a factory.
Who can afford to buy non-essentials from a retailer?
This power price increase reminds me of water prices in Melbourne when the Wonthaggi Desal finance spivvery kicked in. Over $1B per year now and rising.
While the LNP fiddles, the Australian economy is being raised.
270
Geoff
A sad tale, mirrored throughout the country.
Besides the obvious, Kurri Aluminium smelter, local small business in Newcastle is shrinking rapidly.
Never have I seen the number of vacant stores, offices and workplaces now empty and up for re-letting.
Something is happening that doesn’t look good.
Maybe we have found the breakeven poking where electricity costs make business unworkable.
KK
170
Breakeven point
60
Quitest Christmas in retail i’ve ever seen.
Was in a Coles on the Tuesday evening, Christmas Eve, it was about as busy as a Saturday
morning 40 years ago.
Their biggest day of the year!
40
Bill In Oz,
Do you really care if they think you’re sinners? With their attitude they couldn’t have built so much as the smallest outpost in the middle of some out of the way place in the out-back. What will they do when the switch doesn’t turn on the lights? They can’t build anything. All they know how to do is complain and tear down what others have built.
Let them rave on and they’re going to fail. Our problem is to survive their failure when it happens.
80
With any forethought we will survive their failure and let them take up their place in the dustbin of history.
70
Roy, of course you are right.
Please see my reply to Sophocles at 2.1.1.2.1
10
A musical compilation of the exaggerated nonsense.
10
Sorry to cut in on your post Sputnic, but I would like Jo to clarify something in the interest of accuracy when referring others to her blog. Jo, I read the other day where you mention that global temperature have risen 0.9 degreesC since the start of the industrial Revolution, whereas TDeF regularly claims a rise of 1.2 degrees C over the past 100 years or so.I was watching an episode of Poldark the other day, set in the 1790s and it seems they had steam driven mine pumps back then, so the Industrial Revolution would have begun about that time unofficially at least. Could you and TDeF please get on the same page and agree on the correct number.0.3 of a degree difference isn’t much, but the timescale difference of both claims is significant. Cheers.
00
For some reason or other I always had a figure of 0.6 C° in mind.
00
Over what period KK ? This is an example of where I struggle when recommending Jo’s blog, when regular bloggers on the same side as our gracious host cite conflicting data figures.
10
I think that I worked on the increase in temperature from just before the little ice age began until present, ie the overshoot of the recovery, for what it’s worth.
In my view all of these so called “world temperatures” are very dodgy. The world is a big place and varies constantly.
Given that sea levels have fallen a minimum of 4 metres in the current interglacial that’s a good enough proxy to confirm that world temperatures have fallen continuously over the last 7 thousand years.
KK
KK
20
I swear.. it wasn’t me that dun it !!
70
What is a Kyoto Protocol?
51
a eugenic agenda.
140
The per capita calculation methodology has been completely debunked by warming worriers once it came to light that Australia is no longer the biggest emitter ‘per capita’. I did have a link to that debunking by a well known warming worrier, but can’t find it anymore.
As the Greens are wont to say, “Never let facts get in the way of a good catastrophe claim’. Also, ‘Whatever it takes’.
240
Time for a Liberal purge…..
Arent science ministers upposed to suport science, not climate nonsense?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/cabinet-ministers-karen-andrews-climate-change-time-wasters/11868694
“Australia is wasting time debating the merits of climate change and should instead focus its attention on responding to the impacts it is having on the country, a senior Liberal minister has warned.
“Science Minister Karen Andrews said it was time to move on from ideological battles, which she said had robbed the nation of the time and energy needed to respond to climate change.
“”Every second that we spend talking about whether or not the climate is changing is a second that we are not spending on looking at adaptation [and] mitigation strategies,” she said.
61
I have no issue with that concept, but it’s what she actually means that is unclear. Forcing more unreliable and expensive energy sources, not doing enough to maintain the bush, pushing for unrealistic and poverty causing industry and societal changes is not adaptation or mitigation.
60
Maintaining the Bush can’t be done, unless we adopt the Hunter/Gatherer lifestyle.
The problem is that massive.
This bush has got to be removed, and replaced by species that don’t explode into flames
every 5 years.
15
The bush has been managed by various peoples for thousands of years and more recently by those who used to work for the Forest Commission.
These people understand the issue and have managed the bush quite well: https://youtu.be/RM72NtXxyLs.
Maybe we should take responsibility away from the experts and the Greens, and let others have a go.
90
Ms Andrews is a Mech Eng.
Tsk…..
Ah politics….the disabler of civilisations…
60
I was actually thinking of this earlier when people talk about climate scientists. In the same way that you can’t say someone is an engineer and therefore understands everything about engineering. That’s because there are many engineering disciplines such a mechanical, electrical, electronic, civil, aerospace or even materials. While there is some cross-training, they are all separate disciplines with their own levels of expertise.
And it’s even more important when it comes to so-called ‘climate science’, because there are even more specialties that seem to be all aggregated under the moniker ‘climate scientist’. Tim Flannery was considered a climate scientist when in reality he was a mammalogist and palaeontologist, hardly someone you’d call a climate specialist.
It all points to how distorted this issue has become.
50
bemused
Further examples of where the word
“ultracrepidarian”
should be applied –
“noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside the area of his or her expertise”
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ultracrepidarian
20
WA managed the bush from 1962-1982. We already know what to do, and WA is the driest most inflammable fire risk in January in the nation.
50
Without acknowledging that the Australian continents plant species profile has changed due to introduced fast growing european grasses and other, even less than nothing can be done.
00
Here in Victoria, we see the last remnant roadside vegetation metamorphose into Kikuyu lawn grass by slashing practice and will see the last Australian native plants on the roadside which are still remnant Australian plants disappear/evaporate altogether. Lawn grass rules right. Australia has become Lawn.
And this native plant holocaust will never even be recorded.
00
Bollocks! 100% Australian species profile contains many fire retardant plants like Blackwood trees and other. The Australian plant kingdom is already burn-proof.
Grazing/farming/etc removed the slow growing native grasses and subsequently farmers favored the fast growing European/etc weed grasses which could cater to larger herds.
It’s in our history. The Australian plant species profile has slowly converted to highly inflammable perennial grasses and fast growing weeds, with respect to slow growing kangaroo grass and wallaby grass for example. When the early settlers grazed their cattle on kangaroo grass, life was good. However, the Kangaroo grass could not keep up with the demands of the cattle and so now we have fast growing seed grasses and imported perennial grass species.
00
I say again.. Before anything can be done, all kinds of various data needs to be on the table, and this includes data on the specific species profile of the areas being assessed.
00
It is quite destructive to walk into a china shop and break everything, not knowing what is in there, and what it even does to begin with..
This is moreoften catastrophic and ends up being something similar to formulation called ‘throwing a baby out with the bath water’. This kind of blindsidedness is on par with the worst extinction outcomes.
I maintain extinction of over 50% of species has already happened in the main, completely without any climatic influence, and on the increase, showing no signs of slowing especially the last 200 years generally. In view of that, extinction has been working miracles even in the most diverse life remaining on the planet. Some herbicide here and a little fungicide and pesticide and voila!…a single species of plantation at best with a few stragling survivor species. prefferably furry and cuddly for the feel good factor…
Somehow, the idea that if only a single animal exist in some kind of elaborate zoo somewhere, and that therefore this species is not extinct is hard to fathom, and yet it is what we are told. Regional and local extinctions seem to matter not a whit…as long as that single representative of the species in question exist somewhere. Even if it is in some gawd forsaken zoo off somewhere or other.
00
Whilst this is a somewhat quirky post it is a little misleading to adjust the actual per Capita figure and make adjustments for Population growth and gdp . However what it does emphasise is the ridiculous notion of using per Capita emissions to punish Australia. When one realises that Chinese per Capita emissions are around half Australia’s but has 40 times our population then it puts in perspective the absolute futility of any cuts in emissions that are undertaken by Australia. Not only that, China’s per Capita Emissions have increased by a factor of 400 % since 1985. If one wonders why anyone thinks that global emissions can fall without China .It is in fact impossible India another country that has a free pass on reducing emissions is ranked third in total emissions and 158th in per Capita emissions.
If it truly is a global problem per Capita is a totally nonsensical term to use as a comparator . The top 4 emitters China, India, USA and Russia who account for over 50% of total emissions are all taking no active steps to reduce those emissions . Why any other country’s government would inflict deliberate self harm by its global warming policies is a mystery and what is more of a mystery is how in a democratic process those governments have been more than competitive in elections. What it does reflect is that the 20 years campaign of indoctrination orchestrated by the warmists has been very successful .
280
So precisely stated that the nongs running everything – business, institutions, governments, …………… – need a dose of salts to clear their choked up brains from a generation of cr@p.
Just imagine what could really have been achieved in that time if the sqillions of dollars wasted worldwide chasing phantoms had actually been usefully employed: controlling disease, eliminating poverty, improving water harvesting, ensuring sanitised water for all, ……………….
190
Actually in the Philippines & Thailand & Vietnam & China & India etc
That’s what they’ve been doing while we fart around with
This descent into global warming madness!
30
#11. Thou shalt not grump at the CHICOMS!
40
I know this is me harping on about what I always harp on about, but when it comes to China, consider this.
In the last eleven years (and that’s just the time I have been watching and recording this) China has exponentially increased its electrical power generation capability.
Australia’s total power generation comes in at an average over those eleven years of 195TWH per year. (and is now 204TWH for the last rolling 12 Months)
China ADDS that much power generation to their total every ….. 200 DAYS.
In those eleven years China has added 20 Australia’s.
And while you all know how much coal fired power gets added every year in China (a Bayswater every two and a half weeks, now they’ve slowed the construction of them down marginally) it might surprise you to know that China’s coal fired power percentage of total power generated from every source is 70%, and that’s the same as Australia’s percentage.
While the population of China is Oz X 58, that total power generation is only Oz X 35 so, with the same coal fired percentage, you can see how China’s per capita emissions are so much lower than ours.
Tony.
280
All of which makes Australia about the dumbest nation on earth for allowing the Green agenda to go for so long so hard even with PM Morrison agreeing we should keep cutting our emissions. We really need a crisis to wake Australia up and realise they have been conned into allowing the biggest scam in history slowly but surely to destroy our economy.
150
Ha ha…as one commenter moaned about…its all powered by fossil fuels.
Um …yeah…like solar panels and puppy dogs and rainbows wouldnt have worked….
https://the-riotact.com/plans-lodged-for-hydrogen-fuel-station-in-fyshwick/349870
“The first step in what could be Australia’s hydrogen fuel revolution is being taken in Fyshwick by local energy provider ActewAGL and its partner, French renewable energy company Neoen.
“ActewAGL has lodged plans for the first refuelling centre of its kind in Australia to be built at its compressed natural gas (CNG) station in Mildura Street.
“The new hydrogen facility will augment the CNG facility and service a new fleet of 20 Hyundai Nexo hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for the ACT Government as part of its commitment to sustainable energy sources and technologies.
“But the new facility, which will cost $2.8 million, will also be available to the public, making Canberra the first Australian city to have such a service.
30
Original Steve,
enjoyed your post.
This may be of interest to you.
https://thedriven.io/2019/03/24/hydrogen-for-light-road-transport-renewables-key-to-emission-cuts/
Contributor, Bede Doherty.
(Bede Doherty is an independent consultant in climate change mitigation, specialising in transport including fuels/powertrains, fuelling infrastructure and emissions.)
Quote by Mr Doherty on the site.
“To produce Hydrogen from water, a chemical process called electrolysis is used. This process is highly energy intensive and requires about 55 kWh of energy to produce 1 kg of Hydrogen. 55 kWh is enough energy to power the average Australian household for 3.5 days.
The amount of water required is also significant – about 18 litres of water per kg of Hydrogen (=100km distance travelled for a Mirai). In a country which will increasingly be affected by longer, drier, more frequent droughts, due to climate change, the supply of water for this process could become very unpopular, not to mention a risk.
If renewable energy is used to perform electrolysis, then the process is carbon neutral. However, if the process is powered by the standard mix of generators in the local grid, then emissions remain high.”
your thoughts?
30
“Drilling For Hydrogen”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/07/01/drilling-for-hydrogen/
“What’s wrong is that people misunderstand hydrogen. Hydrogen is not an energy source. There are no hydrogen mines. You can’t go out and drill somewhere into a deposit of hydrogen and bring it back home to burn.
And why can’t we mine hydrogen and bring it home and burn it to power our cars?
The reason we can’t mine and burn hydrogen is simple … it’s all been burnt already. The nerve of nature! I mean, people are always warning that we’ll burn up all the fossil fuels, and now we find out that nature has already gone rogue on us and burned up all the hydrogen …”
60
william x:
Most hydrogen used industrially is produced from natural gas (methane) by reacting with High Pressure and Temperature steam. The result is CO2 (44 units by wt.) & hydrogen gas (8 units by wt.). This is cheaper than High Pressure Hydrolysis with a high temperature in a potassium hydroxide solution, which is used where ever there is very cheap electricity.
A third method is intermittent hydrolysis at low pressure favoured by laboratory demonstrators and Greenies which is hopelessly UNECONOMIC.
Another POSSIBLE method to hydrogen is being subsidised by the Federal Government, which involves turning brown coal into hydrogen. There is nothing new in this WaterGas process, it was first used commercially in 1878, but nobody (until now) has been stupid enough to separate out the hydrogen gas from the resulting CO2 and carbon monoxide. With enough energy input it should be possible to convert that carbon monoxide (which you don’t want floating around) into CO2 and a bit more hydrogen. Supposedly the hydrogen will be condensed to a liquid (below minus 255℃) using LOTS of ELECTRICITY and shipped to Japan this year in time for the Olympics.
Coming at the next games the Triple Twisting high jump with the contestants landing b*lls first on the hurdle. The screams of agony will be supplied by the Australian taxpayers.
20
G 3,
I understood the proposed method of storing/transporting Hydrogen ,..is to convert it to liquid Ammonia NH3 ?
https://phys.org/news/2018-01-link-solar-hydrogen-ammonia.html
00
“is to convert it to liquid Ammonia NH3 ?”
That’ll be fun the first time they have a prang !!
00
Another Ian and Graeme No.3. RE your replies, I hope others have read what you have posted and are now better informed. Gentlemen, I thankyou both.
10
But the Chinese are ‘poor’
They have an automatic Green Excuse Card
And can do whatever they like
To the planet.
By Gaia they can even buy the coal & gas we dig up
And BURN it freely
‘Polluting” the Greenist planet with deadly CO2 !
And still live in the Greenist Garden of Eden.
110
I’m not sure whether per capita CO2 “production” is based on just national electricity total or that plus oil, diesel and petrol.
Whatever, in places like India and China a significant portion of the population would have a rural existence and use wood/coke/other combustible to cook, heat the home and just live.
This huge CO2 burden, I am sure, would just be ignored to make us look bad.
In terms of pollution and karbon debt this rural mode of existence would be worse than us for the basics but since we have so many possessions we would ultimately be the greater sinners.
KK
51
China obviously needs a good talking to by Greta and her supporters, to see the errors of their ways.
“How dare you” would be a good start.
70
Zigmeister –the whole point of Australian emission reductions is purely symbolic remember — we are just “leading the way”. Hence it is absolutely fair to discuss both measures per capita and I am slightly baffled that the conservative government does not.
Our total emissions are irrelevant as are our total emission cuts.
It is almost like the conservatives don’t want to advertise how “successful” Australians have been …
30
Australia has swallowed the lie of anthropogenic global warming, more so than almost any other country.
Australia is willingly destroying itself over a Leftist lie specifically designed to destroy Western Civilisation, even with a supposed conservative as PM (which of course he isn’t).
And the Queensland Premier is about to enact legislation to permanently ban the Bradfield Irrigation Scheme.
Only in Australia would you legislate against a beneficial irrigation scheme.
https://cairnsnews.org/2020/01/10/premier-palaszczuk-to-legislate-against-the-bradfield-scheme-with-pristine-rivers/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
And look at the massive destruction caused by other Leftist policies such as banning fuel reduction burns or farmers building fire breaks.
Australia was blessed with so much but it’s all being destroyed by the Left.
And we have no Donald Trump to fix things up.
380
G’day David,
And even our Commonwealth Minister for Science is embroiled:
…
” Australia’s bushfire crisis has prompted a blunt warning from Science Minister Karen Andrews to those she says are wasting time arguing about whether climate change is real.
Ms Andrews will convene a roundtable meeting of top scientists on Wednesday to kickstart work in response to the “devastating and surprising” bushfires this summer.
“Every second we spend discussing if climate change is real is a second we don’t spend addressing these issues. Let’s move on and get over this,” she told the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. ”
…
Published in today’s SMH
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/science-minister-says-climate-denial-a-waste-of-time-in-wake-of-fires-20200114-p53rev.html?btis
I despair.
Cheers
Dave B
190
The bushfires are devastating but hardly surprising Ms Karen Andrews. If you are a real scientist and blessed with a modicum of commonsense (a rare commodity unfortunately) maybe open your eyes and see why their severity is dependent on quite a large degree of dereliction of duty in certain quarters, not hurtling after that mythical manmade gw/cc/cwhatever they call it today.
180
Surprising to someone who knows nothing about allowing years of fuel load to build up due to the very green doctrines they spout.
90
Karen Andrews is not a “Scientist” by qualification.
She studied Mechanical Engineering and worked in the power industry, before moving into IR roles then Politics
The minimum i expect from a Politician, especially a Minister, ..is to know when NOT to make definitive statements.
They should know to leave that to the experts.
00
Even less of an excuse to fall for this CAGW farce, then.
Plenty of scientists are so specialized that they may not comprehend the chicanery that takes place under the ‘Climate Science’ banner. A practicing engineer (as opposed to the academic kind, as in “Chief Scientist” Alan Finkel) should be able to see the complexities of the system that dictates climate and how ridiculous the notion of modelling it is.
10
Stealers Wheel – Stuck In The Middle With You
Well, I don’t know why I came here tonight
I got the feeling that something ain’t right
I’m so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I’m wondering how I’ll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you
Yes, I’m stuck in the middle with you
And I’m wondering what it is I should do
It’s so hard to keep this smile from my face
Losing control, yeah, I’m all over the place
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you
Well, you started off with nothing
And you’re proud that you’re a self-made man
And your friends they all come crawlin’
Slap you on the back and say, “Please, please”
Trying to make some sense of it all
But I can see it makes no sense at all
Is it cool to go to sleep on the floor?
Well, I don’t think I can take anymore
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you
Well, you started out with nothing
And you’re proud that you’re a self-made man
And your friends they all come crawlin’
Slap you on the back and say, “Please, please”
Yeah, I don’t know why I came here tonight
I got the feeling that something ain’t right
I’m so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I’m wondering how I’ll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you
Yes, I’m stuck in the middle with you
Stuck in the middle with you
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you
—
This should be Australia’s National Anthem.
90
Get up organised . campaign against Deniers
Who is going to organise an electoral campaign
Against such dumbnuts as this Karen Andrews ?
111
Andrews is ensconced in Queensland’s safest Liberal Seat.
Since she’s got neither ability nor achievements, we must look elsewhere for the reasons behind
her steady rise.
120
Does her stupidity serve the LNP well ?
I can’t see how !
Move her on to useless retirement !
50
What’s Karen Andrews’ background?
Why, the Military, of course.
It would raise a few eyebrows if she was referred to as General Andrews, or Colonel Andrews, which
is her proper title, so harmless sounding Karen it is.
There are probably quite a few others.
Andrew Wilkie wouldn’t sound so cuddly if he was referred to as Colonel Wilkie, or whatever his
rank is.
Of course, they can’t even call The Donald Private Trump.
Those Heel Spurs, you see.
Otherwise he woulda been out there in South Vietnam assassinating
Battle Hardened Generals.
23
Got my token blonde Cabinet Ministers mixed up.
Defence Minister Linda Reynolds was the General.
No idea what token sinecure Karen Andrews held before Easy Street beckoned.
Regarding the name Karen, which was popular c 1955-1965, where did the name originate?
The only Karen prior to those years I can think of was Danish weirdo Karen Blixen, who
succumbed from a diet of champagne and oysters.
00
Not only is Andrews not a climate scientist, something “deniers” are always admonished about when making contrary statements, she also says the science is settled:
“Ms Andrews, a former engineer, said the science on climate change was settled.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/cabinet-ministers-karen-andrews-climate-change-time-wasters/11868694
Ignoring for the moment that this basically makes her job redundant, at least in the area of climate science, seriously WTF?!?! What science is ever settled?
140
Prove it.
Oh, wait, the science is unfalsifiable, so she can’t.
All she has is a truckload of useless conjecture and an unfalsified null hypothesis (it’s natural).
Apparently, the ‘minister for science’ doesn’t understand scientific method.
130
We won’t require her testimony at the Royal Commission.
60
Oh i dont know…a few hours under oath and a harsh spotlight might imbue a newly rediscovered sense of responsibility for her actions…..
60
Hi EG, I notice on tonights news that the united firefighters union does not want a Royal Commission into this latest round of fires, citing previous enquires not having their finding implemented. Could it be that the firefighters union are afraid that if the bogeyman is climate change rather than fuel loads,then their position moving forward may be weakened?
P.S. Climate change has just hit the low part of the high country, huge winds, a power blackout and significant rain. Hope the rain part keeps up as this system tracks into the North East and Gippsland
50
It seems the United Firefighters Union believes in human induced global warming. They want strong climate action and phase out fossil fuels.
The Volunteer Fire Fighters Association say it has nothing to do with a CO2 molecule and everything to do with hazard reduction and green tape.
So to avoid public acrimony and furore, cooler heads would prefer climate change not be raised.
40
Well if the Chief CSIRO scientist is called then he would agree the science is steeled and the answer is cutting our emissions will have negligible impact on the climate. Tables would then be turned surely? Nope. The scam continues thanks to both major parties. A Royal Commission would be one huge waste of time unless they had the power to send leaders to court to be judged as scam artists and imprisoned. However, Royal Commissions don’t have that power, they just make recommendation, such as to have suspects investigated under the law of the land.
50
The RC has quasi judicial powers, nobody is being prosecuted, everyone wants to know if its unprecedented. This may seem like a small chink in the armour, but its the only chance we have.
Council at the RC: ‘Professor Phil Jones claims that the rates of warming of the last three warmings (1860-1880, 1910-1940, 1975-1998 ) are statistically indistinguishable? What do you make of that Professor Karoly?’
30
Just heard a list of the expert scientists she will be meeting with which includes BOM, CSIRO and multiple Universities. Each of these have been caught out [snip -Jo] and breaking the basic law of science yet not one of these Gods of the AGW church has ever offered up one single shred of empirical evidence to prove CO2 has caused any weather event whatsoever. Also there are no expert scientists from the NO side of the argument so what exactly does she hope to learn FFS. We need to email her and CC all the Lib members explaining to her why what she is doing is SO WRONG. The more emails they get the more they might think about the fact that we put them in office to NOT do what they are doing. Can’t remember what the addy is but there is a website that lists all politicians email addresses. Let’s flood their Inboxes with complaints about their betrayal of our trust.
100
Yes, exactly.
We should also develop a list of easy to understand talking points to drive it home.
70
Gutless politicians
40
Some are gutless, some are liars some are career politicians and some are ignorant of the truth. That pretty much covers the vast majority of them. Yet people keep voting for them. Go figure.
31
Wrong hit, see green
00
John Thwaites did the same thing in Victoria preventing the building of new dams, ensuring huge future bush fires in pristine Melbourne Water ex-catchments and lining the pockets of ALP mates and certain Liberal Party members with a cut of the 11.5% interest charges on the Wonthaggi Desalination Plant finance. He is currently the chairperson of Melbourne Water and thus holds all the incriminating paperwork in his control. He had help from Johm Brumby and Steve Bracks.
260
And don’t forget the North South pipeline.
Finished but unused.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/productivity-commission-call-to-revive-north-south-pipeline-rejected-20180814-p4zxgt.html
80
Equally David, the water minister at the time, one Tim Holding, is also on record as saying that the “pipeline ” was capable of providing water to north of the divide if needed.
This outright lie should be revisited and in fact be made true. Melbourne no longer depends on stored water to survive, just fire up the desal plant. This would then free all the stored water above the Sugarloaf dam to be pumped north and into the Goulburn Murray system. What a win for the farmers and the environment !
90
David
Think of it as a last gasp of the “red flag in front of horseless carriages” law.
Seems that any parliamentary law can be overturned – and the more idiotic the more quickly
90
Is it true that ScoMo’s going to convene yet another Royal Commission into the latest round of bushfires? Oh, Labor and the Greens are going to love this. They’ll be able to get Climate Change onto the agenda through yet another means and with the RC, they’ll be able to make it an election campaign. Hazard reductions? What’s that?
110
1.The Bushfires were deliberately lit by Arsonists.
2. Eucalypts are the most r-selected plants* on Earth.
Solution:
1. Find and punish the Arsonists.
2. Snowy Mountains Scheme type project to rid Australia of Eucalypts and
plant useful European Trees.
* https://www.britannica.com/science/r-selected-species
25
We call up the experts on climate change in Australia, Ashcroft, Gergis and Karoly, to give their opinion on whether this drought and bushfire season are unprecedented. We could also bring in Pittman to elaborate on his earlier comments, but this time under oath.
Surely they will be forced to admit that its not unprecedented and elevated CO2 has not created a worst bushfire. So much for the academics, I believe there are whistle blowers at BoM who might be enticed to tell the RC about blocking and its impact.
50
We have no Trump to fix things but ironically we do have China to do so if things do get so bad we have to call upon their assistance. I’m sure China would love that. Of course we could ask for America’s assistance but by the time we do need someone’s help they too might be heading downhill fast once Trump is gone. So I suspect we have some 5-10 years left before things start showing clear signs of a collapse in our economy. Morrison will get too much of the blame but he will deserve some of it for sure.
70
David
Palaszczuk must have political death wish. On the other hand if she gets away with this then it is “bye, bye Australia”.
50
Good points David.
If half the money ripped from Australians via the ” CO2 is bad scheme” had been spent on the water collection, storage and distribution schemes we would be a far happier, engaged (think of the employment boost) nation than now. More farm produce, more employment, better mental health.
Currently, unemployment benefits are poorly administered.
In some countries you can only draw unemployment support if you have previously worked and paid tax for a number of years.
Australian benefits are excessive in some areas and lead to government sponsored drug/alcohol abuse and gambling. What a great country.
For older unemployed people the benefits may do with a bit of a boost.
Of course the political pillaging must be stopped, but how.
How do overseas companies manage to buy water rights that override the rights of local farmers who paid a premium for land with access to riverfront?
Farmers have been shafted.
Accountability is essential in politics and it just ain’t there at the moment.
KK
30
Yes farmers have been shafted. The rest of Australia to follow. We have nation destroyers for politicians in both major parties.
40
I think a lot of the hullabaloo is the Koala affect. Just look at the overwhelming response from around the world when the Koala refuge was set up in NSW a couple of months ago. The woman in charge was interviewed and seemed shocked by the huge response. So if China lost its Panda’s, or India lost its Tigers in fires like we do, that might prompt ‘Greta the Great’ and her cronies to jump on them.
90
Yes, koalas. An animal so stupid it’s brain has actually shrunk over the course of evolution. And it’s so stupid that if you put it on a flat surface like a table with leaves to eat, it won’t eat them because it doesn’t recognise leaves as food unless they are attached to a tree.
105
Much preferable to a one tonne huge smart and very fast killing machine in the Polar Bear. We do not do enough to promote these inoffensive creatures who need real protection from Green madness. And they have survived the regular forest fires for millenia but not now that the Greenies put out every fire until the fires are unstoppable and nothing survives.
Fires like CO2 levels are perfectly natural, but in the new science of human superiority over the planet, we control everything. Even droughts, floods, tidal waves, volcanoes, everything and CO2 levels. None of that is true in reality but the transition in half a century has been astounding. Now we are told we can stop bushfires with socialism and electric cars and tofu. That really is crazy.
210
Thinking of some of the things humans consider to be food, and eat, I can’t help but think maybe the Koala is being very sensible.
20
If the UK disappeared by 2050, according to nature magazine the effect on global temperatures would be a reduction of three hundredths of a degree centigrade. I would imagine that Australia’s impact would be around one hundredth of a degree.
Both countries are irrelevant. The big players are China and India.Greta needs to go and harass their leaders, not those of the west.
160
Tonyb see my link to CSIRO down page, where they tell us that the SH is a NET co2 and methane sink and you terrible people in the NH are the NET source. SARC
You’d be aware that maths guru Nic Lewis partly agreed with the Zickfeld et al study used by the Royal Society & NAS to state that the world could stop all human co2 emissions today and there “wouldn’t be a change in temp for a thousand years”.
He looked at this study in DEC 2018 at Dr Curry’s site and found that there would be a long lag time but it shouldn’t take a thousand years.
But I know that some of the co2 levels in the ice cores sometimes take thousands of years to change after temperature has dropped.See Petit et al for eg. Here’s that RS & NAS study, question 20 Q&A.
https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-20/
50
She would get spanked and thrown into a dungeon so she won’t be going there to preach her drivel. Plus there’s no money, the Chinese will charge her. And the UN knows Beijing will just tell them to peeoff, and will ignore everything they say in policy, after they profusely and furiously agreeing with them in public.
80
And even if the whole world reduced its carbon dioxide emissions by 40 per cent, it would make bxxxer all difference to the rate of increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere (care to explain the natural causes, IPCC?) and absolutely none to the weather.
171
Very good post Jo and here at CSIRO Cape Grim Tassie site they tell us that the entire SH is a NET co2 and methane sink, while the NH is the NET source of these gases.
Of course just 10.5% of the world’s population lives in the SH and emit about 7% of global co2 emissions. The super emitters like China,India and the developing countries are the new giants in the game. But OZ has now dropped to just 1.1% of global co2 emissions according to Wiki.
Here is the link to CSIRO and their quote, see “Seasonal variation” at the link.
https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/OandA/Areas/Assessing-our-climate/Latest-greenhouse-gas-data
“Carbon dioxide concentrations show seasonal variations (annual cycles) that vary according to global location and altitude. Several processes contribute to carbon dioxide annual cycles: for example, uptake and release of carbon dioxide by terrestrial plants and the oceans, and the transport of carbon dioxide around the globe from source regions (the Northern Hemisphere is a net source of carbon dioxide, the Southern Hemisphere a net sink)”.
“The Cape Grim baseline carbon dioxide data displayed show both the annual cycle and the long-term trend”.
130
We need to reverse this alarming trend. Pump up royalties on exports and burn more coal at home. We need that extra energy to revamp our rail, our manufacturing, create a lot of ports, and to set up floating nuclear all around the coast.
102
But steam engines on rail will cause more fires – can’t have that (/s)
52
We don’t want to rule out a steam revival you know. You watch that comedian Jay Leno on his car show. He’s done authentic R&D with a couple of his steam cars. And with the new materials that can contain the heat, steam power in flat rail and tug boats could become fantastically viable again. Even with inferior fuels. There is two of his shows particularly. You watch them and you run the risk of falling in love with steam all over again. I’m running with a different physics and cosmology. In my view of the universe the phase change of water is the most powerful force we know of, and its probably the most powerful force we are ever going to know.
What people don’t realise is that done right, manufacturing is an extension of logistics. Logistics is putting STUFF in sequence and transporting it. But the transporting and the sequencing ought to overlap. So having a string of container-ready ports all around the coast, and really good very level rail inland is the prequel to becoming manufacturing superheroes. The Austrian school have Boehm-Bawerks concept of the “lengthening of the structure of production” …. To me this is one of the most important concepts in economics. Even the Austrians themselves don’t emphasise the importance of this concept enough.
If manufacturing is really logistics then the order of the arrival of the goods needs to be shuffled on the way to the factory. So the bulk of the inventory of work-in-progress ought to be on slow-moving tugs where possible or on flat rail. Since manufacturing expansion cannot be achieved outside of this concept, we want to invest in very low cost cargo transport capacity. To-whit, very flat rail and many ports. And later ubiquitous dirigibles. People when they think about transport improvements their mind turns to speed. But speed cannot fulfil the role of putting things in sequence for the purpose of awesome manufacturing power.
62
Great post! Great precepts! Lots to think about!
As a backyard apiarist, and one who has seen real termite mounds and marveled, your logical confrontations make some real objective sense.
21
Beekeeper hey? The logical extension of ubiquitous permaculture will be cheap pork and gallons of excellent mead for every worker. Because the system becomes so productive that there is a lot of mast for the pigs to clean up. And there are so many flowering trees that the land overflows with honey.
I had a layabout cousin grifting off me for ten months. So to pay his way I made him brew honey-beer from raw honey I had bought in bulk. I had an alkaliser which fought against the low pH of the honey and so the yeast-creatures survived quite well. You could get very very sick from this honey beer. But the second day bounce-back was tremendous. And no-one caught a cold for the entirety of the ten months, even though there seemed to be a lot of noxious lurgies in the city.
Probably more for the younger man. Because although the honey-beer cleaned you out of most pathogens, it did tend to stack on the weight just the same.
43
Give me a lever, a creditor, and, some mead and i will move the world 🙂……”cheap pork and gallons of excellent mead for every” money printer…..for every money printer, or entity dependent on the money printing phenomena out of thin air, even in places where a similar kind of magical financial precipitation should not exist or is unknown… One could even argue money printing causes mead and emissions beyond those which are necessary for an economy to exist.. The money printer professional money printing intelligentsia could always argue that mosquitoes and parasites are necessary for an ecosystem and therefore also an economy of ever expanding diversity. As someone once said …‘Struth! What might not happen in this world. A flea might swallow an elephant.’”.
At a microbial level, mead, unlike low concentrations of glyphosate, might be able to selectively inhibit bad bacteria and favour the growth of bad bacteria instead.
From: “Research Article
Glyphosate perturbs the gut microbiota of honey bees”
https://www.pnas.org/content/115/41/10305
00
*might be able to selectively inhibit bad bacteria and favour the growth of good bacteria instead.
00
“your logical confrontations make some real objective sense”
Thank you.
Onward. We have a country to save. We don’t have the ally we thought we had. And so it looks like we will have to do it on our own.
33
Steam is a brilliant energy source, but You seem to be overlooking numerous chemical and Atomic forces ?
The most powerful force i have seen recently is that of Political Deception !
10
Sure but how big can you get them? See those super-volcanoes of the past. The real big ones in the geological record. These explosions were even big than the hydrogen bomb. And they were basically water phase-change explosions. Actually on a deeper level when we see powerful explosions, in my ideology these are proton-repulsion explosions.
See the large atom. As the atoms get larger the number of neutrons needed seems to get larger and I think they are needed to shield the protons from each-other. But then on the other hand the neutrons need the protons to remain stable. Since a neutron on its own will split apart very quickly into an electron and a proton. So in this way of thinking neutrons are needed for shielding protons in the atom and protons are needed to keep neutrons stable within the atom.
Now imagine an atomic bomb. One neutron, becomes three, then 9 then 27 then 81 and so forth. So our eyes are on the neutrons. We think its these neutrons creating all the energy. Well a shower of neutrons can do some damage. Turn concrete buildings to dust and all that. But while we were looking at the neutrons multiplying we are missing the reality that they are leaving behind un-shielded protons. So suddenly we have protons that are there together when they weren’t supposed to be. So I say the explosion comes from proton-repulsion.
Now take the hydrogen bomb and the solar model in one bite-sized snack. These two have to be looked at together. The solar model was always stupidity from the start. But it was adopted at the same time as the explosion of the first hydrogen bomb. Basically the same month as far as I can make out. Allegedly a fusion bomb. I think this is a matter of official secrets, and the solar model and the alleged way the hydrogen bomb is supposed to work, are part of the same set of official secrets. So my view of the sun is different.
When I see really large explosions in space I think I’m looking at water phase change explosions. I think they are a great power out there. Because I think that you are only able to make an atom bomb so big, and you are probably quite limited also as to how large you will make a hydrogen bomb. I think this heavy water fusion bomb business is just all deception. Which is why they persist with such vigour in their failed model of stars and our sun. When they are talking bollocks about the sun they are really covering up the nature of the hydrogen bomb.
13
The hydrogen bomb is one of the world most underrated weapons and the secrets behind it are known only to five people: R Nixon, E Musk, A Gore, I Morgan and Graeme Bird.
Come on, tell us about it.
KK
00
The hydrogen bomb seems to be useless as a weapon. Is suspect it requires great compression and refrigeration. Its too big and unwieldy to be used tactically. My speculations comes from what I know about liars and persistent stupidity. So when you see a bogus model of the sun pushed so forcefully on the public, and that model is in great defiance of all the evidence, thats when I say to myself …. “probably some low-hanging fruit here.”
If my doctrine that big explosions are hydrogen-repulsion explosions is correct, then the hydrogen bomb won’t be a fusion bomb. Note that there has been persistent difficultly in pulling energy out of fusion reactions. I don’t think fusion is difficult. I think its easy. I just don’t think its a good energy spinner. Not long ago there were toys called “Fusor’s” that allowed small children to conduct fusion in their fathers shed. We see what I call fusion in the stratosphere where Nitrogen becomes Carbon 14. We see fusion behind the nucleus of comets. Where the solar wind provides both the electrical energy and the material to build water vapour and hydro-carbons from scratch. Halley’s comet drags behind it a Saudi Arabian share of hydrocarbons. Welders need an argon shield to surround their arc welders because otherwise they seem to have a lot of cases of carbon monoxide poisoning, and nobody really knows why.
Where there is electrical pressure we see fusion is easy and painless but its no energy spinner.
So think about what I have written so far. If powerful explosions are proton-repulsion and if fusion doesn’t yield much energy then the hydrogen bomb is really a proton-repulsion bomb. The atom bomb at its centre is there to strip all the electrons away from the hydrogen. Leaving only protons. The electrical pulse that the atom bomb creates outruns the explosive force and probably outruns the speed of light for a few metres. The hydrogen is probably frozen and highly compressed. But once the electrons are stripped away, in this scenario, then its a proton-repulsion bomb.
There has to be some good reason for this persistent idiocy with regards to the sun and the stars. Stupidity is everywhere. But decades-long persistent stupidity ought to raise an eyebrow.
01
Well, 9 1 1 2 1 1,
That certainly raised my eyebrow
10
Sure. Well there is a lot of talk about E=MC-squared. But this is formula voodoo. You have to explain a mechanism for some sort of action on the small scale that leads to something we would call energy on the large scale. That formula has no place in science because it doesn’t give us mechanisms. Plus empirically when you release energy you don’t lose mass. So the formula is debunked right there and you are left with evidence for a psychological operation. You end up with the same number of nucleons as you started with. See the mushroom cloud? No nucleons were damaged in that movie.
Then physics-boy 101 starts making all these feeble excuses about binding energy. The upshot being that they don’t really have many answers but are just engaging in Albert-idolatry. Whereas with fission you can see in your minds eye these big molecules breaking apart, unshielded protons getting in each-others face, and the physical action this creates leading to a great deal of kinetic energy on the small scales, which transfers to a great deal of thermal energy at larger scales. So we trace a great deal of this stuff back to aether-denial. A deliberate attempt to take control of big chunks of science.
11
Of course I must keep that drumbeat going of water-retention landscapes. We need that energy also for the earthworks needed for water retention landscapes. If you do the right thing, you can inter more carbon by accident, then a dumb-leftist could do, with all his wet dreams of dictatorial power and mass impoverishment, spectacularly fulfilled.
33
And we also have Peter Andrews, involved in all this a long time before carbon pricing became a financial fantasy.
“How Peter Andrews rejuvenates drought-struck land | Australian Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4OBcRHX1Bc
00
Yeah. Righteous. He had the right idea. Hopefully he will be getting his rewards right about now.
13
The notion that we need to change the climate and that we can is a scam. The climate change industry is fueling the careers of politicians worldwide and making some people very, very rich. It is also messing with the minds of a lot of people, particularly the young and creating all sorts of anxiety and related mental illness. It has consumed hundreds of billions of dollars worldwide that could have been spent on improving the lives of the needy in so many ways. It could have fed the starving, provided shelter to those who need it, provided health care to the sick and an education to those without. This is the horrendous opportunity cost of climate change. It is totally unconscionable and it is well past time that it was called out. When will the madness end? How long will it take before the world comes to it’s senses and rids itself of the blight on humanity that is climate change.
200
Did anyone see Joe O’Brien on ABC TV on Monday morning interviewing some “academic expert” about the link to the fires and climate change ?
The whole 10 minutes was propaganda with O’Brien repeatedly trying to verbally coerce the guy, who was a red hot alarmist anyway, into supporting his political position that if only we had a carbon tax we could be living in climate utopia.
When I was younger I would have defended the ABC as an essential balance in news reporting but no more.
This was simply unabashed propaganda linking people’s misery to their climate sins and openly advocating for a new version of a pointless regressive tax that disproportionately impacts the poor, does nothing for climate or the environment and that has already been rejected – no actually repealed.
It is time for these elites to be sacked including academics who refuse to tolerate any debate, insult any who blaspheme and use privileged position to insult and criticise the rest of us.
Time to go “Aunty” – lets have a referendum on that and academic dysfunction.
260
Remember how for so long the alarmist mantra was ‘weather is not climate’
Now they have completely flipped: weather is climate.
Turn up the co2 klimate kontrol knob you have bad weather, turn it down, you have good weather.
90
Weather is also climate, Karen Andrews is convinced.
‘Australia’s science minister has a blunt warning for people denying the reality of climate change: stop wasting time and start dealing with it.’ SMH
90
Democratic civilization is jumping the shark.
80
Socialism with Australian characteristics.
60
Australia should be INCREASING CO2 because that means we are making things and using energy to raise our standard of living.
There is a direct correlation between energy use and standard of living.
This huge reduction in CO2 is actually a very bad thing (since Australia is too immature to use nuclear power).
170
Wait, David! Are you saying there is a connection between making stuff and CO2? Why, if that were true the bulk of our coal would be shipped to Asia and we would be deindustrialized while all our stuff would be made in As….
Oh, right. I see it now.
110
Wonders of carbon ‘n human inventiveness will never cease!
More things, Horatio, than globALists will allow in their restrictive universe…. https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/01/14/diy-supercapacitor-using-kitchen-materials/#comments
30
Thanks Neville for the CSIRO link.
So we are supposed to just accept that an extra 122 molecules of an inert gas, CO2, which undergoes no phase change at ambient temperatures and that absorbs a tiny percent of the radiation spectrum emitted by Earth’s surfaces in a million molecules of ordinary air has a powerful effect on temperature ?
And apparently super methane, at ~2 molecules in a million molecules of ordinary air is something that requires slaughtering cattle and sheep, and probably much of humanity as well, in order to “Save the Planet” ?
The advocates of this nonsense have no intelligence – the partial pressure of these gases is completely insignificant and their ability to “trap heat” equally so.
One day in the future when humanity has developed an immunity to this “Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds” mentality they will look back at our times and laugh at our stupidity and gullibility and mock the alarmists for the charlatans they truly are.
160
Rosco see my reply to Tony b above about the Q&A from the Royal Society and USA NAS, question 20. Very revealing and something you never see the MSM discuss.
40
The left of politics, the media and academia are never going to stop alarming people at this point. If it isn’t weather changes as catastrophic ‘climate’ change, you can bet it will be some other moronic politicized, monetized utter nonsense they’re feeding to the children with a fire hose full of ignorant drivel.
50
A reduction of CO2 emissions not due to nuclear energy is nothing to be proud of.
It should alarm people.
100
how good are those renewables!
121
The reduction is not due to unreliables but lowered standards of living. Unreliables contribute no worthwhile power.
180
Lowered standard of living? GDP has gone up remember.
What you need to do is find a breakdown of what was different between then and now. Efficiency and industrial mix. Less heavy industry now for instance.
113
GDP has gone up because of large scale immigration 3-6 times the national average (70,000) the net effect is a fall in living standards.
see, eg.
The problems with GDP growth supported by immigration are clear to anyone spending another morning stuck in traffic on a bus
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/immigration-and-economic-growth-stephen-koukoulas-2018-8
140
Yes, massive immigration inflates the GDP, not living standards. The same in the US. And provides cheap labour, undercutting the Unions. Socialists love it because modern immigrants are attracted by our social services, not our jobs and they, like the public service, will always vote for more of other people’s money.
130
yeah I forgot… people living longer and having more disposable income means we are worse off.
16
you also forgot to respond to the point in issue.
80
Lots of folks are living longer and have no income. That cost the rest a lot of money.
If you have no income, do us a favor and check out at 42. Thanks.
– – winking smiley face – – Poe’s Law
70
Good luck saying we need to reduce immigration levels … you’ll be drowned out by people shouting racist in your face. But yes, if we halted population growth in Australia our energy usage, and hence emission levels would look even better (from a greenie perspective).
70
Less industry.
Less manufacturing.
Less commerce.
Less taxpayers.
More taxes.
50
More latte production engineers.
70
Nope…coffee makers are now robots….
http://www.cafelat.com/robot.html
40
greetings fellow skeptic.
i take your remark with the irony with which it is obviously intended.
‘Renewables’, as well you know, cannot supply base load power and so are essentially completely superfluous to the power grid (which runs 24/7).
140
Looking at the graph it does appear we are on a slippery slope, as David said its a lowered standard of living. This must be the new normal.
80
more people, less services, less power, we are well on our way to third world nation status.
80
A rich third world country. Like Venezuela. It is exactly where resources poor manufacturing countries want us. We make nothing now, not even our own diesel. We are no longer self sufficient in petrol with only 60%. And our gas is exported from the North West shelf to Singapore and we buy it back.
120
We actually keep 15% of the gas for domestic use (WA Only), it’s been working well for the last 35 years. If only we could share it with the rest of Australia – wouldn’t that be good?
30
By the most ‘optimistic’ calculation I get a 4% reduction in CO2 emissions due to renewables. That didn’t allow for the standby generators, so the probable figure is less.
Drax power station in Yorkshire “went green” by burning wood (& getting subsidies for it) but their CO2 emissions went UP by 27%. Yes, Green policies work! Tell that to the burnt koalas.
90
“how good are those renewables!”
Pathetically UNRELIABLE. !!
70
Renewables didn’t do it. A drop in demand did. Jobs went overseas. Poor do without.
70
And when there’s insufficient capacity now the big industries that are left are forced to shutdown production .
50
All renewables only 6% of total energy used.
Wind and solar about 30% of that, so around 2% of total energy used (pretty pathetic wouldn’t you say)
I know maths and basic comprehension are beyond your tiny mind’s capacity,
…. but do you really think a 2% share of energy use can provide a 40% drop in CO2 emissions
Are you really SO DUMB !!
50
Let’s put it this way:
Without Renewables, most of our Billionaires would be reduced to struggling MultiMillionaires.
60
So the globsters have cooked up a chart showing emissions reductions which will not be enough (you naughty things!) but which are enough to justify the continued erection of white elephants by green scallawags and carpetbaggers. Nope. Not buying this.
Their chart is bunk for all the usual reasons statistics are bunk, plus a few more. Let me count the ways…
Actually, no. I just watched a whole bunch of bush go up and despite their claims of knowing how much carbon, how many BTUs etc it’s clear that the globsters are as happy burning cathedrals as burning bushland and that they neither know nor care about carbon or BTUs per hectare. They burn it because it’s there.
Dismantle all non-hydro renewables. Cancel Uphill Snowy. Ban use of imported diesel for mainstream electricity. Expose, ridicule and defeat globalism. Do so decisively, without excuses or compromises, and in a hurry.
And do coal.
160
m
Not coal but another outing of the bluff of not understanding very big numbers
“The Ocean Warms By A Whole Little”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/14/the-ocean-warms-by-a-whole-little/
40
Thanks A I,
A great debunking, and before the paper is published.
And M Mann could make a hockey stick out of a soccer ball.
Well caught.
Cheers
Dave B
10
The word about the Greta fraud is spreading.
Well done Micheal Smith and JoNova;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=217&v=Re8gqxWvCTA&feature=emb_title
40
Australia is one of a small group of countries that achieved the Kyoto Agreement emissions targets.
And now that Australia wants to apply credits for that achievement the IPCC is claiming that to do so would be cheating?
Unfair apparently.
Maybe if our Federal Government had not withdrawn financial support for IPCC green funds last year and was fully supporting the climate change hoax agenda the fact that Australia is again on track to meet emissions targets (Paris Agreement) would be welcomed instead?
90
We should do exactly what China is DOING, and ignore them, and tell them to get lost or else, if clowns like Mann etal come nosing around for a plate of free sandwiches.
What spineless gutless wimps all of our governments have been.
120
Apparently the luvvies at the ABC never stopped suffering from the cultural cringe (‘people in a country to dismiss their own culture as inferior to the cultures of other countries’), but have just transferred it to climate change (‘climate cringe’).
90
Karen Andrews is supposed to be an engineer. I find that very hard to believe. The data before her tells a very real picture of what has happened and why it got to “unprecedented” …and she falls into line with her gold coast brethren and bows before the gaia .
100
15 Jan: ABC: Reuters: Rupert Murdoch’s son James criticises News Corp, Fox for climate change and bushfire coverage
The younger son and daughter-in-law of News Corp executive chairman and Fox Corporation co-chairman Rupert Murdoch have taken aim at both organisations’ coverage of climate change, widely viewed as a contributing factor to the Australian bushfires, in a statement to US-based news outlet The Daily Beast.
“Kathryn and James’ views on climate are well established and their frustration with some of News Corp and Fox’s coverage of the topic is also well known,” a spokesperson for the couple told The Daily Beast, and later confirmed the statement’s accuracy to Reuters.
“They are particularly disappointed with the ongoing denial of the role of climate change among the news outlets in Australia, given obvious evidence to the contrary.”…
Critics of News Corp, the largest media company in Australia, say it has participated in the spread of misinformation about the fires and has downplayed the impact of climate change on them…
James Murdoch sits on News Corp’s board and is chief executive of private investment company Lupa Systems…
Kathryn Murdoch has, in the past months, become more vocal about her decade-plus work as a climate activist…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/james-murdoch-criticises-news-corp-fox-climate-change-coverage/11868544
100
And the worst paper in Australia (from their point of view) is The Australian.
And the newspaper doing best in Australia (unlike the SMH, The Guardian etc.) is The Australian.
Looks like the children would blow their inheritance.
80
I wonder what Rupert thinks about their Clinton Foundation support?
60
Who cares what he thinks?
Actions speak louder than words, The Australian‘s Editorial page today featured
someone calling for 100% Renewables ASAP, Luke Slattery
calling for a Tasmanian Road Tax to reduce the
Marsupial Road Toll, and someone else shilling for Zero Emissions.
As they say in the land of American Citizenship, ”Go figure.”
50
Good.
I hope they do that.
It will be the biggest face plant in recorded history.
50
Testing that saying –
“Nothing to nothing in three generations”?
60
Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations
Supposedly the destiny of the Irish in America c. 1850-c. 1950.
Two problems there.
1. Murdoch isn’t Irish.
2. Murdoch’s never came from shirtsleeves anyway.
40
14 Jan: Daily Beast: James Murdoch Slams Fox News and News Corp Over Climate-Change Denial
Fiddling while Oz burns
Rupert Murdoch’s younger son and his wife issued a rare public rebuke of the family’s media empire and its promotion of climate-change skeptics during Australia’s bushfire crisis.
by Lachlan Cartwright; with additional reporting by Justin Baragona
In a long-simmering rift between factions of the Murdoch family over climate change, Rupert’s younger son, James, and his activist wife, Kathryn, are attacking the climate denialism promoted by News Corporation, the global media group, and also by the Fox News Channel overseen by James’ older brother, Lachlan.
“Kathryn and James’ views on climate are well established and their frustration with some of the News Corp and Fox coverage of the topic is also well known,” a spokesperson for the couple exclusively told The Daily Beast as wildfires rage in Australia…
The extraordinary public rebuke from Kathryn and James—who is the CEO of Lupa Systems, a private investment company he founded—comes as Australia has been ravaged by the worst fires seen in decades…
One longtime News Corp executive, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation, described the comments by James, who continues to sit on the board of News Corporation, and Kathryn as an intentional attack on Lachlan and Rupert. “They are pissing inside the tent and that’s unusual. It’s evidence of how high tensions are within the family over climate change. The majority of people who work here agree with James. We are hoping this may be the tipping point,” the exec said…
On Nov. 24, as fires were already burning in Australia, News Corp columnist Chris Kenny wrote in The Australian newspaper, “Hysterical efforts to blame the fires on climate change continue, even though we have always faced this threat and always will.”
A day later, News Corp columnist Andrew Bolt wrote in The Herald Sun…
Other Murdoch family members were less forthcoming to share their views of News Corp’s coverage of climate change. When contacted by The Daily Beast, Elisabeth Murdoch hung up after being quizzed on the issue…
Wendi Deng, the mother of Murdoch’s two youngest daughters, Chloe and Grace—and who divorced Rupert in 2013—told The Daily Beast, “I can’t talk about this,” when reached by phone. Prudence Murdoch, Rupert’s first child, who resides in Australia, did not respond to repeated requests for comment…
James and Kathryn have long been passionate about the environment and have both spoken publicly in the past about the dangers of climate change. In 2008, Kathryn joined the Clinton Climate Initiative and later served on the board of the Environmental Defense Fund…
“There hasn’t been a Republican answer on climate change,” Kathryn told The New York Times. “There’s just been denial and walking away from the problem. There needs to be one.”…READ ON
https://www.thedailybeast.com/james-murdoch-slams-fox-news-and-news-corp-over-climate-change-denial
50
It never ceases to amaze me how many younger people are under the spell of the climate change hoax.
The unworldly woke people victims of lefty lunacy.
80
Yes, in decades, it has occurred before, and apparently not due to CO2 though.
But this time it’s different! … somehow …
100
“But this time it’s different! … somehow …”
They can feel it?
20
Kathryn and James should spend an hour with Joanne Nova.
However, consider how stupid the average greenish person is and consider that half are more stupid than the average.
I see a problem with my plan.
120
It would be good if several people could arrange a meeting in Parliament House Canberra for interested to listen MPs during the next session.
The BoM warming creative accounting evidence and other evidence including the state objectives not being about the environment and all about socialism masquerading as environmentalism while attacking free market capitalism and redistributing the wealth of the citizens of developed nations.
And make a video of each presentation for public release.
40
How about three unknown comedians, legitimately registered as journalists, interviewing politicians of all persuasions, but importantly with a subtle satirical bent.
Door stop: ‘Science Minister do you really believe that this bushfire season has been worse because of increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?’
20
This went into moderation, I forgot and used the Fr**d word.
Well done Michael Smith and JoNova for exposing the Greta story;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=217&v=Re8gqxWvCTA&feature=emb_title
80
AUDIO: 5m01s: 15 Jan: ABC AM: James Murdoch ‘disappointed’ with News Corp’s ‘climate denial’
By Isobel Roe
Featured:
Margaret Simons, writer, former journalism academic
Tony Koch, former journalist at News Corporation
James Murdoch, News Corporation board director
Kathryn Murdoch, wife of News Corporation board director, Co-Founder and President, Quadrivium Foundation
https://www.abc.net.au/radio/hobart/programs/am/james-murdoch-disappointed-with-news-corps-climate-denial/11868678
anti-Murdoch 15m+ o/t video from April 2019. Deep Stater, Christine Amanpour nods along, with FakeNewsNYT hacks, Jonathan Mahler, Jim Rutenberg:
VIDEO: 15m36s: 14 Jan: CNN: Amanpour: Rupert Murdoch’s son lashes out against Fox and his father’s other news outlets for climate change coverage
By Hadas Gold, CNN Business
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who has also downplayed the fires’ connection to climate change, has been largely supported by Murdoch’s papers in Australia, most of which endorsed him in the last election.
Some commentators and hosts on Fox News have also blamed the fires on arsonists…
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/14/media/murdoch-australia-climate-crisis-coverage/index.html
15 Jan: Guardian: James Murdoch criticises father’s news outlets for climate crisis denial
by Jim Waterson Media editor
Kathryn Murdoch has already set out the couple’s vision, telling the New York Times last year that she was increasingly focused on the issue of global heating…
She said she was particularly moved to act after seeing Al Gore’s speech at the Fox event in 2006: “I decided to switch everything I was doing. I wanted to be able to look my children in the eye and say ‘I did everything I could.’”
50
re CNN. meant to type Christiane Amanpour, not Christine without an “a”! that’s auto-correct for you.
50
And our weak minded Prime Minister and the “Ruling Party” have now fallen for it, hook, line and sinker.
101
Mini-Mal was just waiting for the chance to let his inner globalist muppet dance on the world stage.
70
I’m thinking he really is that easily swayed.
80
Scotty hasn’t fallen for anything.
He was put in the job to complete Abbott’s & Turnbull’s missions, and that’s what he’s done.
26
But did they stop global warming bushfires … ? … ?
“The last time Australians saw Labor’s climate policies in action, emissions went down 2%, the economy grew by 5% and employment increased by 200,000 jobs.”
More Dodgy Climate Modelling with Flawed Assumptions
https://www.tai.org.au/content/more-dodgy-climate-modelling-flawed-assumptions
>> Looking out the window, you have to say “no”.
60
Oh, the irony.
40
It’s Green Capitalism.
Nothing whatsoever to do with Environmentalism, which has been completely silenced, and shut out of
the manufactured ”Conversation”.
30
Geez. That’d make a classic Hockey Stick if you took these fires into account! 🙂
20
turned on ABC Radio National for a few minutes before bed-time last nite, and got the rabid anti-Trump segment in the following program, being repeated while taxpayer-funded ABC on-air staff enjoy a long holiday. for some reason, it is not listed in ABC RN’s “full schedule” of programs, but I eventually found it.
this was being repeated at the very same time PM Morrison was using his influence with the White House to have a negative travel advisory down-graded to help our tourism sector.
add to that US is Australia’s #1 military ally.
not recommended listening:
AUDIO: 54m5s: 12 Jan: ABC: The People vs with Josh Szeps: The People vs lying
Join Josh, the people and our experts as they try to get to the truth behind lying.
This episode was first broadcast October 20 2019
Guests:
Dr Simon Longstaff, Executive Director, The Ethics Centre
Professor Dallas G. Denery, Associate Professor of History, Bowdoin University
Guests: Dallas G. Denery II, Professor of History at Bowdoin College…ETC
To learn more about this topic:
“Trump’s lies corrode democracy,” James Pfiffner for Brookings, April 2018. ETC
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/the-people-vs/the-people-vs-lying/11708946
11m35 to 29m: Szeps: Donald Trump. let’s bring him in here, because he’s one of the reasons we’re talking about lying this week.
20m46s: Szeps brings up Trump’s fake news accusations, levelled at “some of the most honest journalists in the world”.
23m49s: Szeps: alternative facts: 50,000 on the mall at the inauguration or 1 million – both can’t be true.
(even Trump-hating WaPo puts the figure at 600,000 in the Democrat-dominated Washington DC swamp):
14 Jun 2019: WaPo: Trump still owes D.C. $7 million in inauguration costs as he plans July Fourth gala
By Peter Jamison
But the president has still not fully paid the bill for the last time he addressed a massive crowd on the Mall: his 2017 inauguration…
The total cost of the four-day celebration, which culminated with a parade and gathering of roughly 600,000 people on the Mall, was $27.3 million…
—
more to come.
30
Do we have the details on how much land locked up for carbon capture has burned during the fires? And how much carbon was released?
40
I thought most of the carbon capture farmland was in marginal country western NSW and QLD .
30
Nah, most of it is Murdoch owned Pine Plantations.
Wait, wha …?
12
Are National Parks included in that count?
Cheers,
Dave B
30
follow-up to comment in moderation re ABC/Trump. the various characters:
Wikipedia: ***Josh Szeps
Szeps currently co-hosts Weekend Breakfast on ABC News. He was a founding host for HuffPost Live and his work has included satirical writing and presenting for Australian radio, as well as the hosting of Brink, an American TV series. He also hosts the podcast Point of Inquiry for the Center for Inquiry…
Beginning in 2008, Szeps was the host and creative producer of the Science Channel’s Brink, a news-style TV series which examined breakthroughs in technology and discovery. The series ended the following year. Later, he was anchor and correspondent on CBS News Productions’ Peabody-winning Channel One News…
Josh was also a regular correspondent with Al Roker on the NBC’s Today.
He has also appeared on the panel and co-hosted The Project on Network Ten in Australia…
Wikipedia: The Ethics Centre
The Centre’s Executive Director, ***Simon Longstaff, has appeared in the media in Australia to discuss ethics-related issues…
In 2011, The Ethics Centre became the initial approved provider of Special Ethics Education for NSW schools…
The Ethics Centre presents the Festival of Dangerous Ideas (FODI) along with the Sydney Opera House starting in 2009…
The Centre is financially supported by donations. Notable organizations which have donated money or other resources to the Centre include The Saturday Paper, Telstra, AMP, ABC, Australian Unity, BHP Billiton, the City of Sydney, Ernst & Young, Gilbert + Tobin, the GPT Group, Grocon, Jones Day, LaSalle Investment Management, Macquarie Group, Manly Selective Campus, New Philosopher, Origin Energy, Santos Ltd and others…
13 days after Trump’s inauguration:
2 Feb 2017: The Ethics Centre: Between frenzy and despair: navigating our new political era
by ***Simon Longstaff
In years past, one of my roles was to take meteorological readings for the north-west sector of the Gulf of Carpentaria. My job was to relay weather readings to an operator in Katherine.
From there they would be added to the data pool used by the Bureau of Meteorology to track and predict Australia’s weather. Although my part was very basic, it was essential. And so it was that I found myself reading the weather at the height of a tropical cyclone.
I stepped into the maelstrom, physically wrestling the wind and exhilarated by this personal encounter with the unbridled power of nature. Meanwhile, other (perhaps more sensible) people were gathered together in shelters. The same cyclone that made me feel alive left them terrified. One phenomenon, two very different responses.
Whatever divides Trump’s supporters from his critics, they are united by one thing – both groups are being buffeted by powerful winds of change.
For me, that cyclone is like President Trump’s emerging impact on the world. The flurry of claims and counter-claims, fake news, alternative facts and the swirling vortex of presidential orders demonstrate enormous power and have provoked diverse responses…
Trump supporters risk being swept away on a tide of populism that knows no boundaries and ultimately eats its own. Critics risk their scepticism giving way to outright cynicism, the kind that inevitably corrodes the bonds of human society. Of the two risks, the latter is the greater. Cynicism often ends in resignation and the hopelessness of despair. Citizens disengage and democracies unravel from within…
An ethical life is a life for the hopeful, a way of living that strengthens the sinews of all those affected by the political project embodied by President Trump. Political bluster can be every bit as dangerous as cyclonic winds. Let’s strengthen the ground on which we meet it.
https://ethics.org.au/between-frenzy-and-despair-navigating-our-new-political-era/
was the following the inspiration for Szeps’ program?!
Sept 2019: WERU Communiry Radio, Maine: Democracy Forum 9/20/19: Black, White, and Blue Lies: Lies that divide, lies that unite
Host: Ann Luther, League of Women Voters of Maine
We talk about the lies in politics and the politics of lying…
How is the present moment in American politics different from others in our history? Or is it?
What are the consequences for democracy?…
Guests:
***Dallas G. Denery II, Professor of History at Bowdoin College. ETC
To learn more about this topic:
“Trump’s lies corrode democracy,” James Pfiffner for Brookings, April 2018…ETC
https://archives.weru.org/democracy-forum/2019/09/democracy-forum-9-20-19-black-white-and-blue-lies-lies-that-divide-lies-that-unite/
for the record:
15 Jan: AAP: PM Morrison intervened on US tourism alert
by Finbar O’Mallon
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has praised the White House for revising a warning for travellers to Australia…
Mr Morrison thanked US President Donald Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for their urgent intervention in the travel warning…
The Australian Tourism Industry Council welcomed the prime minister’s intervention, saying it was necessary…
Executive director Simon Westaway said the perception abroad was most of the country was inaccessible or impacted by fires.
“Brand Australia has taken a hit,” Mr Westaway told AAP.
“It’s just been very difficult to have a consistent narrative on us being open for business.”…
11 Jan: SMH: ‘Life and death’: ABC battles to restore damaged networks during bushfires
By Zoe Samios and Fergus Hunter
The ABC’s radio and TV networks have sustained heavy damage from the bushfire crisis across NSW and Victoria, forcing the national broadcaster to call on the military, commercial media rivals and members of the public to maintain emergency broadcasting…
Communications Minister Paul Fletcher praised the ABC, military and Grant Broadcasters for their efforts during the crisis.
“Many people have worked tirelessly – in extremely hazardous conditions – to keep the ABC and the local commercial broadcasters on air during the bushfires and I thank them,” he said.
Mr Fletcher said the ABC was doing an “excellent job” providing accurate emergency information.
30
The Paris agreement lets every country select its own reference year for measurement and its own metric which means that there is no common baseline for comparison. Australia being reasonably honest as a nation or naive depending on your beliefs used actual emissions, the amount of CO2 pumped into the atmosphere. Other nations chose per capita or the most dishonest measurement, emissions intensity (as a function of GDP). With our unsustainable level of immigration and the emissions arising form providing the infrastructure and services to cater for the population increase our emissions are rising. However the slope of the trend for our increase is well below the trend for global increase. It is past time that we raised a middle digit in the general direction of the IPCC.
60
As Australian industry shut down the emissions that were made here were simply moved offshore to China or wherever else they make the things we used to make.
The emissions are just a proxy for positive economic activity.
(Not that there is anything wrong with CO2 emissions, they are good.)
120
Would all parties please use the new phraseology.
Instead of “climate change” please use “fake climate change” (ie AGW/CO2/crisis etc) or “real climate change” (naturally occuring reality)
100
I generally try to remember to put a ™ on it if I am talking about the cult belief, rather than natural.
Same when I use the words “climate scientist™”
Maybe I should use © or ® ?
60
Off Topic ! THE BOM EXPOSED !
Since July last year Ken Stewart up in Bundaberg, Qld. has been doing an examination of the BOM’s 720 weather stations, to see if hey are fit for purpose; that is comply with the global & Australian BOM’s guidelines for siting such weather stations.
And now Ken has finished that unpaid task. It took over 6 months.
I have not seen any announcement from Ken Stewart yet. But he has finished his detailed examination of every BOM weather station – all 720 of them. And discovered which of them are ‘cookers’.
: A total of 326 of the BOM’s 720 weather stations are so poorly located, they are generatinginaccurate temperature observations.
There is another way of saying this. Ken is much more polite than me. I call them : FAKE OBSERVATIONS !
Here is the link where all these BOM’ed out weather stations are listed state by state. Go look & see if your local weather station is a cooked one or an accurate one !
https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2020/01/12/the-wacky-world-of-weather-stations-by-state/
PS : My local Mt Barker weather station is definitely a ‘cooker’.
130
Ken has done a great job. Methodical and the type of scrutiny needed. There is much there to pore through. Thanks Ken.
90
I’ve been wondering about BOM rainfall
weather observations.
I suspect they are just as shonky.
20
But pre-1910 temp data is too unreliable!!
hahahahahahahaha
00
In all the current wild reporting Climate Change is pushed as something which is real, which can be changed by Government action, taxes, prohibitions and where destroying manufacturing, farming and slaughtering all the animals is smart and caring. That is just incredible nonsense. Honestly, I do not know what Climate Change is, but then nor does anyone else. It’s whatever you want it to be, hot, cold, storms, bushfires.
Also as I expected, at least one Royal Commission to allow everyone to duck blame under the pretext of understanding our entirely new climate of droughts and flooding rains and bushfires.
And as I am amazed, a total lack of any science. It is all Climate Change and the government should do something. Urgently. It’s their fault.
No rising seas, no increasing temperatures, just madness, emissions, fault and urgency. The Greens are loving it because there is no science involved anywhere. And it is all obviously Morrisson’s fault, because he took a holiday.
And the UN/EU/Hollywood/Greta are all blaming the Australian government and Donald Trump. And Trump is the reason the Iranians shot down their own people, at least according to Trudeau, Sanders, Warren and Iran itself. Iran is now saying it was a US plot.
Logic has been thrown out with any facts. The Chinese, Indians, Russians must be amazed, but of course the Russians are still the reason Trump won the election. So facts do not matter either.
And the government should fix everything. Including the weather and the level of CO2. It’s an orchestrated madness.
I suppose sanity will not return until winter when the professional Chicken Littles stop running around in circles and the judges of the Royal Commission suggest we prepare for bushfires, advice which will be ignored by Greens because it’s all Morrison and Trump and Boris’ fault. And BREXIT.
90
If PM Smoko is responsible for Australia’s deadly bushfires, by 97% logic he must also be responsible for this:
83 dead as severe cold grips Pakistan
https://www.geo.tv/latest/267237-83-dead-as-severe-cold-grips-pakistan
Science.
110
“heavy snowfall in Gilgit-Baltistan have broken the 50-year record.”
That would be Climate Change then. Due to Global Warming Science. NINO. Nonsense In, Nonsense Out.
80
Nah, sorry Travis
It’s trump’s fault !
/Sarc
20
The only emissions that count,
Are from warmists, a massive amount,
Of verbal hot air,
To promote a fake scare,
On climate they know nothing about.
130
Also I wanted to write about science, not nonsense. My puzzle has been how to explain the fact of CO2 in equilibrium and the half life of exchange with the vast reservoir of CO2 in the ocean.
My insight is that about 8% of all atmospheric CO2 is absorbed into the oceans every year.
I find this a simple way of explaining what we know to be true and the basis for ending the nonsense on CO2 ’emissions’.
60
And the total amount of CO2 in the air is only 2% of that in the water. Aerial CO2 goes up with water surface temperature, as predicted by Henry’s Law. So we have no control over CO2 levels. It’s all natural. About 5% of CO2 in the air is man released and about 0.03% in the water. Despite the Green megalomania, we do not control the weather.
110
you could start by explaining why CO2 concentrations have increased in the atmosphere, also accounting for man made emissions.
18
So you would have the C13 furphy Peter. Dispute what TdeF has said.
40
I’m asking for an explanation, I’m not disputing, but you would not understand someone asking a question now would you – your type demands faithful adherence to revealed truths.
As to the C13 furphy – what are you talking about? Those same ratios are used in fields like geology, ecology and archaeology for dating. Toss them out, and all those dates must be tossed out as well.
08
Any one that actually understands the C12, C13, C14, knows that show that there is very little human released CO2 in the atmosphere
Scientific explanations are useless to you because you are so heavily AGW mantra indoctrinated..
100
Then explain it?
This is my understanding
CO2 produced from burning fossil fuels or burning forests has a different isotopic composition from CO2 in the atmosphere, because plants have a preference for the lighter isotopes (carbon-12 and 13); thus they have lower carbon-13 to 12 ratios. Since fossil fuels are ultimately derived from ancient plants, plants and fossil fuels all have roughly the same carbon-13 to 12 ratio – about 2% lower than that of the atmosphere. As CO2 from these materials is released into, and mixes with, the atmosphere, the average carbon-13 to 12 ratio of the atmosphere decreases.
https://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/volltextserver/6862/
20
No thats all wrong. For starters while some or all coal might be fossil fuels, almost all oil and most methane will be juvenile products of the centre of the earth. This being an expanding planet, and the doctrine of conservation of mass being a logical contradiction. Sorry you had to hear it from me. But on the other hand you ought to have figured out as much when you found out about the moon TITAN. And you ought to have been suspicious when you heard this jive talking about everything being created all at once not long ago.
14
I’m asking for an explanation Fitz
Of why YOU asked me to go look at the Eden BOM observations ?
Just to waste my time ?
Or because you actually were completely ignorant ?
20
Peter,
Look at the ice core data calculate the time span between changes in temp and then changes in co2,note down the total in years.
Now count backwards from today noted years.
Now look at the first ipcc report graph showing the temp changes over the past 2000 years, note the temp during this period and you will find your answer
00
Poor little peter, You would have to understand Henry’s law, and the fact that as places that were frozen during the LIA start to thaw, CO2 is given off.
Notice how much you fellow cultists yabber on about CO2 and CH4 emissions in the Arctic.
Also critters like termites expand their territory.
But even the most basic explanation is too hard for you to comprehend.
70
Actually Andy, Henry’s law is outmoded (or possibly suspended) in ClimateScience©.
Look at the end of the Lower Dryas where the temperature went up and the CO2 stayed the same**.
For over 2,000 years as the temperature rose to the Holocene Optimum the CO2 level remained at the P.C. level. After 6,000 years of warmer than current temperatures the CO2 level was still the same. It continued to be stable for another 3,000 years regardless of the Earth’s temperature until Arrhenius started the (We Are All Doomed)*** Scam.
** in Greenland ice figures it dropped slightly first but explainable by cold ocean waters circulating.
***It probably sounds better in Swedish.
60
ABC had this in their radio news bulletins today – of course:
VIDEO: 7m17s: 13 Jan: CNN: Oceans are warming at the same rate as if five Hiroshima bombs were dropped in every second
By Ivana Kottasová
A new study released on Monday showed that 2019 (LINK) was yet another year of record-setting ocean warming, with water temperatures reaching the highest temperature ever recorded.
An international team of 14 scientists examined data going back to the 1950s, looking at temperatures from the ocean surface to 2,000 meters deep. The study, which was published in the journal Advances in Atmospheric Sciences, also showed that the oceans are warming at an increasing speed…
“The upward trend is relentless, and so we can say with confidence that most of the warming is man-made climate change,” said Kevin Trenberth, distinguished senior scientist in the Climate Analysis Section at the National Center for Atmospheric Research…
Lijing Cheng, the paper’s lead author and an associate professor at the International Center for Climate and Environmental Sciences at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, said the ocean temperature was 0.075 degrees Celsius above the 1981-2010 average in 2019…
“The Hiroshima atom-bomb exploded with an energy of about 63,000,000,000,000 Joules,” Cheng said. “I did a calculation … the amount of heat we have put in the world’s oceans in the past 25 years equals to 3.6 billion Hiroshima atom-bomb explosions,” he added.
That’s equivalent to dropping roughly four Hiroshima bombs into the oceans every second over the past quarter of a century. But because the warming is speeding up, the rate at which we are dropping these imaginary bombs is getting faster than ever.
“We are now at five to six Hiroshima bombs of heat each second,” said John Abraham, one of the authors of the study and a professor of mechanical engineering at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota…
Trenberth added that an increasing price on carbon would help limit the warming.
“If the leaders of the world changed course, a revolution could take place over about 15 years … this requires the leaders of China, and the US in particular, along with Europe, to take a strong leadership role and set the stage for the rest of the world to follow,” he said…
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/13/world/climate-change-oceans-heat-intl/index.html
61
That would be sunshine. And it means CO2 goes up as it leaves the hotter water. Great. More life on earth, above the water. All life is carbon based and utterly dependent on and made from CO2.
70
However “the amount of heat we have put in the world’s oceans in the past 25 years equals to 3.6 billion Hiroshima atom-bomb explosions”.
Now how did we do that? A few calculations? I would love to see them.
At best we can heat the atmosphere, which is no hotter but how on earth do we heat the water? And as the water has 340x the mass and 1400x the heat capacity of the air, it would make no difference if the air was hotter. The vast oceans would absorb and control it. As always.
60
Everytime I swim in the sea I get cold, so it stands to reason that the sea warmed up a bit. We need to ban beach visits for the sake of the planet!
20
And the sun is dropping the equivalent of 1700 Hiroshima bombs on the Earth’s atmosphere every second.
Oh, but the ABC (all bloody communists) are not biased!
60
After 32 years of being told we humans are warming the atmosphere and now it is clearly not true, we are being told that we are warming the oceans. How? The new wave of Climate Change science is anti Science and certainly a science free zone. Like Grumpy Greta, you have to have faith in disaster to see it.
70
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-01-14/climate-change-ocean-warming-2019/11863056
I don’t see the connection between a hotspot in the ocean and bushfires in Australia.
I saw an interview with one of the researchers on ABC TV and all they talked about was the dire consequences of a warmer ocean, not much about the research itself.
50
How to bake a climate cake.
1. take a lot of error ridden data.
2. take some unsubstantiated assumptions.
3. Mix 1 and 2 together in a climate model.
4. Declare to the world that it’s worse than you possibly could ever have thought.
70
Whole of ocean warming is around 0.15C in the last 60 years
That is, if you really believe they can actually measure the oceans to that accuracy (a large level of gullibility needed)
These people really need to get a grip on reality!!!!!!
10
Pat #41
BUT!
“The Ocean Warms By A Whole Little”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/14/the-ocean-warms-by-a-whole-little/
10
Well, i an no ocean scientist, but i call BS on that claim !
Presumably that is an “average” of some sortfrom numerous measuring sites worldwide and at multiple depths..all recorded simultaneously ?..and repeated frequently ?
Much potential for errors, and what error margins should be expected.
Also , impossible to verify ?
At the end of the day , even if true , 0.07 deg is not exactly an alarming change, .
00
Climate change activists control the politicians rather than it should be the other way around .
Then politicians compete with other politicians both locally and internationally to please each other .
The power of the media has become uncontrollable , its ability to mobilise immature people and the gullible into activism without really thinking through or realising the consequences is disheartening to say the least .
Only strong leadership and real facts to educate the young and old may be able to stop this avalanche .
People will wake up of course , when it really starts to hurt them personally .
60
The Greens have done very well out of climate change, so to have leftist politicians. It’s the oldest trick in the book. Create a risk that only you can save people from and they will vote for you. Climate change has resulted in an absolutely massive cost to the public in monetary terms. It’s also responsible for creating mental illness. If you don’t believe me just take a look at the crying children in climate change protests, their anxiety levels are through the roof. Anxiety is the base for many mental illnesses. The climate is changing, it always has and it always will. What is totally missing is scientific evidence that humans can control the climate. There is a moral obligation on those that insist such massive amounts of money be spent on controlling the climate, to prove that it is working. To date that hasn’t happened.
111
You’re crediting the Australian Green Party with power they never had, and never will have.
If the Big End of Town didn’t want Bushfires in South Eastern Australia,
the Insurance Companies Armies of Lobbyists would’ve made sure those fuel reduction burns happened
when they were supposed to, and loony Legislation never got on the books.
23
‘You’re crediting the Australian Green Party with power they never had …’
With the collapse of the Berlin Wall the Australian Marxists decided to infiltrate main stream political organisations, these political animals found the Balmain Greens were easy pickings. It became the template for how to bring about socialism, with Australian characteristics.
30
The Socialists took over the Balmain Greens, then Australia?
Are you serious?
Bolshevism is the problem, it’s been prominent in Australia so long,
no one notices it any more.
10
We had a female PM who was once a young and naive secretary.
11
Solicitor in Victoria, didn’t renew.
Did well out of little Johnny’s Wharf Strike, she wasn’t Robinson Crusoe there.
00
Daniel ” Smokey ” Andrews.
90
Daniel “Smoked Bear” Andrews?
20
Smokin’ Dan Andrews, aka Wattsy.
00
How dare a Cabinet Minister ignore the facts, BoM deceptive behaviour for example?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/cabinet-ministers-karen-andrews-climate-change-time-wasters/11868694
71
Hmmm
Positive Indian Ocean Dipole events precondition southeast Australia bushfires (09 October 2009)
The devastating “Black Saturday” bushfire inferno in the southeast Australian state of Victoria in early February 2009 and the “Ash Wednesday” bushfires in February 1983 were both preceded by a positive Indian Ocean Dipole (pIOD) event. Is there a systematic pIOD linkage beyond these two natural disasters? We show that out of 21 significant bushfires seasons since 1950, 11 were preceded by a pIOD. During Victoria’s wet season, particularly spring, a pIOD contributes to lower rainfall and higher temperatures exacerbating the dry conditions and increasing the fuel load leading into summer. Consequently, pIODs are effective in preconditioning Victoria for bushfires, more so than El Niño events, as seen in the impact on soil moisture on interannual time scales and in multi‐decadal changes since the 1950s. Given that the recent increase in pIOD occurrences is consistent with what is expected from global warming, an increased bushfire risk in the future is likely across southeast Australia.
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2009GL039902
+same in 2019-2020
40
scratch the last sentence, of course.
30
Satellite data shows that Australia is a CO2 sink.
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/oco2/images/index.html
We have made energy so expensive/unreliable that industry has mostly left and gone to Asia. They can manufacture cheaper because they have minimal environmental regulations and so much corruption that they are rarely enforced.
Pollution in China/India is the true environmental disaster of our time.
100
.
No, it’s an Environmental Disaster in China and India.
Australia didn’t cause it, and Australians aren’t even remotely responsible for the mind blowing
corruption that characterises daily life in China and India.
40
Soil loss and the failure to provide more habitat for ocean life. These are the environmental catastrophes. All that ocean, more energy and minerals than could ever be needed. And all we have to do is provide the niches for critters of all sizes to get busy with “adult things” and suddenly there is an explosion of life and productivity.
34
Just seen a claim that earth has more energy outgoing than incoming from the sun , wouldn’t that mean cooling ?
70
No that proves that there is a secondary source of energy incoming, that certain people around here are resistant too. Light or electromagnetic radiation goes in and comes out and barely is affected by any barrier that atmosphere holds. So this energies in and out traverse cannot be the source of powerful weather effects. But the electrical voltage difference between the ionosphere and the deep earth only corrects itself with an immense amount of drama ……. atmospheric gasses being natural insulators. So its the light that is responsible for most of the temperature. But the electrical energy transfer that is responsible for almost all the drama that we characterise as “weather.”
35
Graeme,
It means that they are fudging the presentation of the data.
If you want to go real complex there’s also energy associated with the rotation of the earth and gravitational pull plus gravitational pull of the moon and also other planets.
Eventually it will all come to a standstill, but we won’t be here to see it.
KK
22
Yeah I get it Keith. All these processes where a moon pulls itself up from its own bootstraps. And then there is the moon IO. Volcanoes all the time and what do they reckon? Tidal forces. Attempt not to be an idiot Keith. Unless Alan Siddons was wrong about the 40 extra degrees on the Moon, just go and have a good look at yourself.
[SNIP and don’t ever do that again. OK? – Jo]
16
Graeme Bird.
Kalm Keith is a person I have never met, never talked to.
sometimes Kalm Keith and I may not agree.
Yet I am able to respond to his posts and do that respectfully. He responds in kind.
It would be within reason for you to not post a comment like this.
your quote:
“Go and have a good look at yourself, admit to yourself what a complete pussy you are, with probable gay inclinations”.
You are out of line sir.
I suggest you do not attack the character of a person you don’t know. By doing that you lose me to any credence in your future posts.
I suggest Mr Bird that you:
Argue your point or theory, by presenting it, letting it be debated. Back it with facts evidence or personal experience. counter argue and so on.
Do it with respect Mr Bird. simples.
51
Dude. I’m under my own name and he isn’t. The normal rules don’t apply.
[I know exactly who Keith is, and I will protect anyone’s anonymity, and your insults are totally unacceptable.The normal rules ALWAYS apply. Check your email – Jo]
Plus he’s read me for a few weeks now and so by now I assume he’s being delusional or playing silly-buggers. On the other hand I take a different view of physics. I think that energy can be both created and destroyed. Keith ought to know that you cannot have both tidal effects and stable orbits without pristine energy being introduced to the universe. But he’s not allowed to come clean on that realisation. So he’s running away from one source of energy that is verified and obvious. But to do so he has to rely on an energy source that would clearly break his own rules. So he’s playing silly-buggers.
16
Hi William,
Kalm Keith appears to be a self appointed Gatekeeper on this site, plus
he does quite a bit of Gaslighting.
03
People around here are heretics enough, not to want to become conspiracy theorists, or “electricity cranks” so to speak. But there is only a certain window of opportunity to be productively-stupid about this matter. There is only so long we can be foolish about this secondary energy source, and hope to make a gain from such flat learning curves.
34
Exactly why we need the discipline to remain polite. Flame wars waste time and contribute nothing.
10
Come now Graeme Bird, perhaps you could expand a little on why electricity generation is so unimportant in this ‘debate’.
Tony.
00
Robert, that sort of claim just shows how stupid they are.
It cannot be.
KK
21
Because if it could be, then Coal wouldn’t be worth anything, let alone Wind, Solar, and Nuclear.
02
???
32
a CAGW pre-emptive strike:
14 Jan: Quartz: The eruption of the Taal volcano isn’t affecting the global climate just yet
By Michael J. Coren
The largest volcanic explosions can alter the global climate. The last time that happened was the eruption of Pinatubo in 1991, just 89 miles (144 km) from Taal’s eruption. Pinatubo ejected 1 cubic miles (5 cubic km) of material into the atmosphere, with a cloud of pulverized rock and debris stretching for hundreds of miles. But it was the 20 million tons of sulfur dioxide that reached the stratosphere—the second layer of the Earth’s atmosphere—that touched off temporary climate change. The sulfur dioxide reacted with water to form aerosols that reflected sunlight back into space, according to the United States Geological Survey. Global temperatures fell by as much as 1°F (0.5°C) for three years after the explosion…
This month’s eruption in the Philippines is far less powerful than Pinatubo, not to mention Toba, writes Allegra Nicole LeGrande, a research scientist at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies at NASA. “To impact global climate, volcanic eruptions must inject SO2 into the stratosphere,” she wrote by email, referring to sulfur dioxide’s chemical formula. “I am not seeing measurements indicating that has happened yet in 2020 at Taal Volcano.” Alan Robock, a professor in the department of environmental sciences at Rutgers University, agreed: “So far it’s not large enough.”
But a more hazardous eruption is possible within hours or days, according to the Philippine Institute of Volcanology and Seismology. The agency raised the alert level to four on a scale of five, as researchers have recorded hundreds of small earthquakes and huge lava fountains near the main crater. Sulfur dioxide levels, however, are still just 5,300 metric tons per day, a fraction of what would be needed to affect the global climate.
https://qz.com/1784368/philippines-taal-volcano-not-yet-affecting-global-climate/
14 Jan: Scientific American: Will Taal Volcano Explosively Erupt? Here’s What Scientists Are Watching
By Andrea Thompson
Authorities in the Philippines have warned that an explosive eruption could happen within hours or days, and they are working to evacuate nearby residents. But volcanologists cannot say for sure if such an event is imminent or “if this is just boiling off a little steam, like a pot boiling over on a stove,” Gregg (volcanologist at the University of Buffalo) says. “We’ve just got to keep watching.”
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/will-taal-volcano-explosively-erupt-heres-what-scientists-are-watching/
14 Jan: Rappler: FACT CHECK: False alerts, warnings over Taal Volcano eruption
Here are the false claims we and our readers spotted online about the Taal Volcano eruption
4. PARTLY FALSE: Pacific Ring of Fire ‘now active’
Claim: A number of Facebook posts say that the recent volcanic activity of Mt Shintake in Japan, Popocatepetl volcano in Mexico, and Taal Volcano in the Philippines means that the Pacific Ring of Fire is “active.”
The facts: The Pacific Ring of Fire is an area characterized by frequent earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. There can be several volcanic eruptions around the world on any given day.
https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/fact-check/249220-false-alerts-warnings-taal-volcano-eruption-january-2020
ANIMATED IMAGE: 14 Jan: LiveScience: Huge Eruption of Philippines Volcano Seen from Space
By Stephanie Pappas
This eruption was captured in images by Japan’s Himawari-8 satellite. An animation of the satellite data, released by NASA’s Earth Observatory, shows the volcanic plume as it spread over the course of Jan. 12 and 13…
https://www.livescience.com/taal-volcano-eruption-seen-from-space.html
40
Um … Geos call the Pacific rim an ‘Active Zone’, so yeah, it’s active, has been for ~205 million years.
10
Now sure where to post this, but y’all may be interested
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/denham-near-shark-bay-first-wa-town-to-be-powered-by-hydrogen/11870472
Would it really cost $2m a year to maintain poles and wire across 30km? Wouldn’t we all have diesel gens in each house if that was the case?
40
Just read the same garbage myself , noticed the disclaimers on this report which are usually missing .
Hydrogen is highly explosive and has proved hard to store .
60
Not sure that’s right about Hydrogen.
The Hindenburg Disaster of 1937 was sabotage, not an accident.
04
Organised by a baseball catcher of a certain ethnicity. [Snip]ED My memory grows dim.
14
Yes, that is a commonly held theory. However I don’t think so.
The gas cells near the tail were leaking hydrogen, which required retrimming. The airship had flown through or close to an electrical storm just before landing. Consequently it was likely highly charged with static electricity.
The ignition seems to correspond with the dropping of the landing lines, which electrically grounded part of the airship. The rear part of the airship starts to burn immediately and the fire spreads quickly. The silver covering of the airship was aluminum oxide which burns fiercely (rocket fuel).
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Hindenburg+Crash+Slow-Motion&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dHindenburg%2bCrash%2bSlow-Motion%26FORM%3dVDMHRS&view=detail&mid=AD892DE3AF5A91192511AD892DE3AF5A91192511&rvsmid=4B6165C73889902561EE4B6165C73889902561EE&FORM=VDRVRV
00
We know the baseball catchers name who organised this. Its too late for that sort of speculation. [Snip]ED
00
Unusually incoherent even for the ABC.
I take it that the $2 million cost is for the connection to the WA grid a few hundred kilometres away.
What I think the reporter meant was that the solar PV electricity would be used to hydrolyse water and the resulting hydrogen (and oxygen?) would be stored, then fed into fuel cells to produce electricity when needed.
You don’t store hydrogen in fuel cells, and the more efficient ones would require a feed of oxygen as well.
20
Climate alarmists are desparate and will do anything to destroy the power grid.
Using intermittant wind powered electricity for manufacture and storing Hydrogen to then to use in fuel cells to provide more electricity on demand must be inefficient and potentially very dangerous.
GeoffW
10
So you store the oxygen from the hydrolysis as well
What could possibly go wrong. 🙂
21
Pat are you having some sort of epiphany where you think CO2 affects the volcanoes as well?
26
Pat only reports what’s said somewhere it’s up to us to judge the message not the messenger.
60
Well thanks for that. I was beginning to take it all personally. It was beginning to feel disrespectful.
26
Graeme Bird –
eighth attempt to post this (have removed url of second link to see if that helps). was just having fun imagining how the CAGW mob might try to interpret a Taal eruption.
A MUST-WATCH – GLACIER? AVALANCHE?:
TWEET: Naveed Trumboo IRS, Dy Com, Indian Revenue Service @incometaxindia. Alumnus @GRIPS_Japan, #NALSAR, @ECAatState. Civil servant
Ever seen the force of a moving glacier in real-time? This is in Tinku nallah near Pooh on NH-5, Kinnaur, HP (INDIA).. #ClimateChange is not a distant reality.
VIDEO 2m20s
12 Jan 2020
https://twitter.com/NaveedIRS/status/1216552004635414528/video/1
15 Jan: CatchNews: Scary! Huge Glacier wall moves on the highway in Himachal Pradesh; vehicle gets stuck
The video was shared on Twitter by Indian Revenue Services officer Naveed Trumboo which showed the large glacier sliding on to the highway. The video was recorded from Himachal Pradesh’s Kinnaur district.
In the viral clip, a huge block of snow about 10-feet is moving forward on the road and people were running backward. Tourist was also heard saying go back as the avalanche sliding slowly towards them on the highway.
The video was shared with the caption, “Ever seen the force of a moving glacier in real-time? ***This is in Tinku nallah near Pooh on NH-5, Kinnaur, HP ***#ClimateChange is not a distant reality.”…
This sort of scenes will happen every year because of climate change.
A beautiful district like Kinnaur should always guard itself against climate change and it’s affects…
Abhishek Yadav (@abhics04) January 14, 2020
What’s this got to do with climate change professor …
This is not a glacier – a small avalanche. Happens all the time in snow mountains. Not #ClimateChange :)…
52
Now I know you are one of the good guys my head can turn on the dime. But my heart. Sorry but that takes longer.
04
Slow down Graeme.
31
14 Jan: UK Times: More electricity demand means bigger challenge for power firms
by Emily Gosden
Ensuring that Britain installs enough charging points is one challenge for the electric vehicle rollout. Ensuring that there is enough electricity available to power them is quite another.
“Every day there are 125 million litres of petrol and diesel consumed in the UK for road transport — about 45 billion litres a year,” Tom Pakenham, director of electric vehicles at Ovo Energy, said.
“All the energy in that fuel will have to be delivered in future through the electricity system, which is a huge amount of extra energy. It’s about as much as the current residential electricity market today.”
National Grid, the company responsible for keeping the lights on in Britain, hit the headlines in 2017 when it published its worst-case scenarios. It forecast that if all cars sold by 2040 were plug-in electric vehicles, and if drivers were free to charge whenever they pleased, then by 2050 the teatime peak electricity demand could increase by as much as 30 gigawatts — 50 per cent higher than winter peak demand now. That additional power demand would be equivalent to almost ten Hinkley Point C power plants.
National Grid has been at pains to emphasise since then that it doesn’t expect such alarming scenarios to materialise because it foresees the adoption of “smart charging” — whereby chargers would automatically draw more power from the grid when it is plentiful, such as when there is an abundance of solar and wind generation, and less when it is scarce, such as the teatime peak.
It also expects that vehicle-to-grid technology, whereby electric vehicle batteries can be used to charge power back to the grid, will help. Its most recent analyses suggest that the combination of these technologies could reduce the additional demand from electric vehicles to less than five gigawatts by 2050, although it will not eliminate the problem altogether. For example, when it comes to fast-charging on the go, waiting for a pick-up in renewable energy is not practical — and demand is likely to be significant…
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/more-electricity-demand-means-bigger-challenge-for-power-firms-vqj2n9mf3
20
Everyone here, for the most part, has jumped over at least one or two hurdles of heresy. Perhaps at some psychological if not professional cost. I am seeing some level of heresy-fatigue. You are getting burnt out is my view. Our girls are stronger in some ways, since we cannot persist without great globs of testosterone and they can. So when all the guys prove feckless and weak we wind up with the Maiden of Orleans, Joanne and Jennifer…. because all the blokes are burnt out and cannot muster two bits of testosterone to rub together. Well you know. This can be nice if you haven’t fantasised about being beat up by Margaret Thatcher and a youthful Elizabtheth the 1st, since you were 13, but we really need to do better. And we have a few more heresies we need to jump over, yet to come.
Sooner or later I got around to being wrongfully nasty to everyone, and one of these people was Alan Siddons. Siddons got a bunch of scoops that I didn’t fully appreciate at the time. And perhaps he didn’t explain them as well he might have. But particularly as well as he could have if there wasn’t such a thing as aether-denial. One of his many scoops was that the moon was 40 degrees hotter than it was supposed to be.
Enough time has passed now that we know for sure that this means a secondary energy source. At LEAST a secondary source. I would say at least two more sources and both of the top two electrical.
As we know the atmosphere is almost transparent to light energy. Almost, but not quite, and in both directions. So this light energy can account for most-but-not-all of the temperature. But it cannot account for all this Donner and Blitzen, Sturm and Drang, Sampson and Delilah, Hurricane and Cyclone, and all the dramatics that we know as THE WEATHER
I went back over my old posts and I saw a lot of downvotes accumulating. Please. This is a character issue. Go to the black market and start putting testosterone in your coffee. Do whatever you need to do. Its starting to get unmanly, and at the very least unbecoming. If we cannot send bad science to the fires, on Joannes blog, right now, then where? And when?
If this is not the time or the place then lets find that time, lets go to that place, and take Alan Siddons with us, and lets sort this out. But at the very least put a time limit on this electricity denial. Because stupidity can be productive. But not forever. Productive stupidity has a time limit attached to it.
37
Testosterone is scarce, Estrogen is everywhere.
That’s why Governments are fanatical about discouraging Sun Bathing.
Campbell Newman banned UV Studios in Queensland, and the Government compulsorily acquired all the
machines. Destroyed plenty of businesses, and arguably, cost the LNP power
That’s how big a deal keeping Test away from the Proles is for these people.
05
It’s all there;
The maidens.
Testosterone.
Personal abuse.
The new mystery “pristine” energy sauce and the struggle to come to terms with what Mr Siddons was saying.
Oh, and a love of country music which excuses all the above.
Go Graeme, hit me with your rhythm stick.
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/01/global-patsy-since-1990-each-australian-have-already-cut-co2-emissions-by-40/#comment-2257010
Testosterone rules. At least I can relate to that bit.
KK
31
You forgot Infallibility-complex.
31
Yes, there does seem to be a failure of comprehension there. Graeme Bird said (with respect to Alan Siddons) “One of his many scoops was that the moon was 40 degrees hotter than it was supposed to be.
Alan Siddons and Hans Schreuder did not propose any new source of energy. The radiant energy from the Sun is enough.
The problem is the assumptions about a “black body” which underlie the calculation of the moon’s temperature (and also the Earth’s temperature). The black body assumption is that the moon has no heat storage capacity. Hence the moon should reradiate during the day all the heat that is receives during the day.
But the lunar soil stores some heat under the surface. Hence it does not get as hot at mid day as the calculation suggests. The stored heat is released during the lunar night. The night time temperature does not drop to zero at sunset.
The consequence is that the average temperature (over the whole day night cycle) is warmer than the black body calculations suggest that it should be. The same effect must occur on Earth and hence the 33C warming which is attributed to “greenhouse gases” is easily explained, without any Green House Gas Effect at all.
The article is here”
http://ilovemycarbondioxide.com/pdf/Greenhouse_Effect_on_the_Moon.pdf
20
That’s interesting Peter.
One of the things that I find disturbing about climate science is the use of the S-B equation and the quoting of Black Body temperatures when it is apparent that the users have little comprehension of the correct use of those concepts.
It appears that both terms are used more as a gimmick to impress than to actually present real science and to create some doubt in the minds of the public that allows climate enthusiasts to score more converts.
When it’s all boiled down the real science says that CO2 is simply another gas in the context of the global warming issue and it doesn’t heat the atmosphere.
🙂 KK
10
You would think the ability of rock to absorb and store heat for a while — no matter how short or long the while — would have filtered through some numbskulls heads at some time. Here we are still reminding them (the scientific numbskulls) how the real world works, lest they forget.
Monkton still pokes the borax at the scientists `forgetting’ the sun shines during the day and not at night. Really.
10
Doesn’t matter what Alan said or omitted. What counts is if he is right or not. Storage is proven. But so is the secondary energy source. Since more light-energy comes out than goes in. And while there must be pristine energy we cannot seriously suggest the moon is likely to be a big generator of such energy in this form.
00
Really? That is a major discovery.
10
A pristine discovery.
10
Yeah of course it was a scoop for Alan. But it’s full implications could not register. Science is controlled by proscriptions, tripwires, sacred cows, and the cult of personality.
One can certainly accept on the margin, criticisms of black body theory. Maybe that all needs a good reworking. But a 40 degrees average calculated difference? The theory cannot be that inaccurate quantitatively, and not have shown up earlier in the lab.
The implication is that greenhouse theory lacks an anomaly that requires greenhouse as an explanation. There is no gap to fill. The colours of gasses will have complex effects either way. But we have to stop this presumption that they are net warmers via basic physics.
00
In the first instance any colouring of gas ought to be a cooling factor. Of course we have the reworking of some ultraviolet and nearly all visible light that gets past the clouds. But we are not okay to say this is net warming. Bringing in secondary electrical energy then the gas colour filter could do a bit of catch-up.
Black body formulae tell us that to spread out thermal energy is to retain it better. And any reversal of the observation that heat rises is also going to help us to retain heat. On both these grounds any obstruction to ocean currents could condemn us to a new glacial period and was probably the real reason the glacial periods lasted so long.
We live on a planet with a one-way cooling bias.
01
I have a suggestion. Hijack the start of a thread so that this gets more prominence. Science of such importance needs to be known.
10
It takes years to soften people up on stuff like this. I’ve been doing this on quora under different handles for a very long time. Only a persistent drumbeat seems to work. Hijacking of any sort could damage the blog.
11
You ironical sonofabeeach. You were trying to get me in trouble. Take down. Shake down. You’re busted.
01
🙂
Right on brother.
KK
00
Sinner or not, the time has come when all the nations must build a consensus on climate change. For a country like us, it is imperative to raise the issue on international forums and force the biggest per capita polluters to act seriously on the reduction of GHGs emissions.
12
Could we put that off until tomorrow.
KK
10
Why?
they aren’t causing any warming.
30
That seems rather ridiculous to be honest? *IF* CO2 is the root cause of all calamity, then the goal should be to reduce it as much as possible. Using the ‘per capita’ measure targets AU, US, Canada, Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan [source: https://ourworldindata.org/per-capita-co2%5D. China is relatively modest and India is an absolute angel.
Meantime, in terms of *total* emissions, the top 5 are China, US, India, Russia and Japan. China, US and India combined output more than half of the global CO2 emissions, yet your per capita measure lets China and India off the hook. (source: https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions). For comparison, the total CO2 emissions in terms of global percentage of the top 5 countries according to each measure is; per capita – 21%, total emissions – 61%. I’d suggest targeting the 61% makes more sense than the 21%.
Per capita measurement is dumb. It manages to make Australia look bad because we’re an enormous continent with hardly any people on it, and have to transport everything huge distances. And like all bad KPI’s, it allows gaming of the system without actually achieving the intended outcome; in this case, the ‘solution’ is to have more babies/increase immigration. You can clearly see that in the graph Jo published; our per head CO has dropped by about 41% whilst population has increased 49%….*ta dah*
10
A look at the quantitative assessment of CO2 .
IF
Active Carbon Dioxide Distribution is:
a. 98% of Earths ( active ) CO2 is dissolved in the oceans.
b. 2% of Earths ( active ) CO2 is in the atmosphere.
c. 97% of atmospheric CO2 is of Natural Origin.
d. 3% of atmospheric CO2 is Human attributable.
It would seem then that if we want to control CO2 levels we need to control two systems:
1. The oceans
and
2. Natural CO2 emissions.
Logically the Atmosphere and Human CO2 emissions are rendered impotent by the shear weight of the other two factors.
In fact even this assessment is irrelevant because CO2 doesn’t “heat” the atmosphere.
KK
http://joannenova.com.au/2011/08/blockbuster-planetary-temperature-controls-co2-levels-not-humans/#comment-416601
00