JoNova
A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).
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Statistics
Great article in the Spectator, “Thank God for tide guages” by Dr. Howard Thomas Brady. It seems that the world’s tide guages show no increase in the rate of climb for sea levels or 15-18cm per 100 years. Not the ABC’s Robyn Williams 1 metre a year. In fact the satellites were admitted to be wrong by NASA in the 2007 report which tripled the rate of increase. It seems the amazing accuracy of satellites meant a one millimeter error in 1,366 km orbital distance translated into a sea rise of 10cm per 100 years. Earth bound measurements have no such need for incredible accuracy and they were right and the satellites wrong.
Still in 2014, two NSW Councils, Shoalhaven City and Euroebodalla adjusted the Fort Denison tide guage data which showed a rise of less than 10cm per 100 years into a rise of 30cm per hundred years. This was done by a ‘linear fit’, which means they made it up. Homogenization at work in tidal data.
The it is now agreed, “the data from thousands of tide gauges clearly show no acceleration of sea level rise in the last 120 years.”
So much for drowning anything. It was all wrong and everyone knew it.
220
I’ve said it before but the house I lived in as a boy 70 years ago used to have the spring tides come into the gutter.
If you offered the present owner 10c in the dollar for a “flooded” property they’d laugh.
51
Sea level rise is destroying Venice!!!!
Venice flooded Nov 2019
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1204787/Venice-flooding-floods-Piazza-San-Marco-closed-Italy-weather-forecast-Venice-news
Venice gondolas grounded January 2020
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51098129
And in Feb 2018 gondolas even higher and dryer
https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/news/a3275/venice-canals-dry-up-no-rain-low-tides/
Where is that sea level rise when you need it?
60
some of the more rabid Sydney harbourside councils have sea level markers at ferry wharfs promoting the sea level rise scam. The show historic, current projected sea level rise to promote the cause amongst commuters. I expect at some stage they will quietly disappaear like the glacier doom signs in Glacier National Park, when commuters notice they are still catching the same ferries from the same wharf and nothing much has happened.
80
There’s a good article on this site below.
https://jennifermarohasy.com/2019/12/what-can-you-see-indicating-sea-levels-are-rising/
10
Also, there’s a good one by Tim Blair.
10
Article in The Speccie, I mean.
10
Are the oceans warming?
Someone posted this on HotCopper:
America can expect some massive hurricanes in the coming years because the water is warming which what drives the production of hurricanes.
They say that this is the fifth year in a row of increases.
There was along extract but no link, no acknowledgement of which temperature data set was used and no reference to the absolute temp. rises.
A search brought me back to a Jo Nova article from some years ago which claims the Argo buoys, while being calibrated to 0.005 deg were only good to half a degree in the real world.
Anyone with anything further to add?
20
Firstly, how does increasing CO2 warm the water? And what about the proposition that warming water releases just a little more of the 98% of CO2 which is dissolved? In fact I believe the bumps in the CO2 growth are to do with summer/winter temperature differential, not plant life as is commonly assumed. It would be interesting to see if the NZ and Hawaii bumps were six months apart. This would be indirect proof that CO2 is tied to water surface temperature, as is simple physical chemistry and therefore the CO2 increase is absolutely predictable from steady water temperature increase.
That of course means that arguing increased CO2 causes warming of the air is exactly the wrong conclusion, as if that is not obvious enough after 20 years of no warming.
What is frightening is that the proponents of Climate Change are now trying to blame ocean warming on CO2. They have given up on air warming. Except this time they have no explanation but do not need one. Everything is Climate Change.
90
As far as I can see all terrestrial and aquatic temperature measurements are so error-ridden and unreliable as to be useless.
50
I agree with you but I’m after a study that shows that. If referencing Argo buoys so much the better.
20
not sure if this is the Jo Nova article you are referencing:
“Study shows ARGO ocean robots uncertainty was up to 100 times larger than advertised
The Hadfield study compared the new ARGO robotic buoys to other ways of measuring ocean temperatures in a slice across the North Atlantic. The results are fairly devastating for claims that the oceans are heating by 0.005° C per year. Hadfield et al found that the Argo network made errors around 0.5° C, and up to 2° C in one area.”
http://joannenova.com.au/2015/06/study-shows-argo-ocean-robots-uncertainty-was-up-to-100-times-larger-than-advertised/
10
Hanrahan,
Try this recent one by Willis Eschenbach
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/14/the-ocean-warms-by-a-whole-little/
00
Woops,
Ian beat me a day.
00
Let’s not forget that the ocean temperature record is very poor – certainly prior to the 1980s. So trying to construct a trend in ocean temperature for much of the 20th century is more art than science. You can almost make it anything you like in the southern oceans as the data is so sparse.
20
Hanrahan
A few words from Willis E
“The Ocean Warms By A Whole Little”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/14/the-ocean-warms-by-a-whole-little/
10
For Imperial people, that’s a steady rise of 6″ to 7″ per hundred years and at Fort Denison, 4″ per hundred years. Run for the hills! And the lack of growth means no discernible effect above the remnants of the last ice age, nothing from Global Warming or CO2 or any such conjecture. It was all wrong.
41
No one under 50 learnt Imperial.
Try millimetres.
Only Dressmakers use Centimetres.
02
The US is still largely in inches, feet, miles, miles per hour, pounds and tons. That’s 330 million people. Miles per hour. Even in the UK, you must have mph by legal requirement on the speedo. And centimeters are common in some disciplines where mm are too small and metres too big. Angstroms vs nanometers. Some industries still have to use inches because of compatibility issues, as pipes were in inches and new pipes have to match. Car wheels are another where you will have 18″, 19″ wheels with metric tyres .
51
You wouldn’t want to confuse grains and grams if reloading that’s for sure .
30
Nor if you’re selling/buying gold.
10
then there is the whole world of aviation
51
Hmm!
Is that U.S. gallons or imperial gallons?
Is that Tonnes, imperial tons or U.S. tons?
I had to learn fast that last difference (tons) when I started out.
I had the wierdest sensation when I found that one ton of coal produces 2.86 tons of CO2 when it’s burned.
How could a lump of hard and heavy coal produce more weight of a gas?
As part of researching that (before I actually committed to print and made a fool of myself) I found out that difference between ‘tons’, Imperial and U.S.
So then, I wrote in down in a Post, in December of 2008, eleven years ago now.
That one Post is the fourth most visited Post in our site’s history with now more than 40,000 visits.
That 2.86 multiplier applies with all weights.
Tony.
Why Does One Ton Of Coal Make 2.86 Tons Of Carbon Dioxide?
50
We had to use mm’s in Boiler making/steel fabrication for accuracy, cm’s are virtually banned but imperial measurements are used for reference to approximate sizes.
In fact I almost failed a trade test during a job interview, the question required the answer in cm’s but I gave the answer in mm’s the interviewer tried to make me change the answer or fail me I refused and asked to see his boss, after explaining my reasoning for using mm’s the boss hired me on the spot and told the interviewer not to make the same mistake again.
40
weird comment, so do those people not exist then? in your mental cinema
22
99 out of 100 people use millimetres.
Try finding a tape measure sometime that’s graded in centimetres.
This isn’t a specialist blog for Eggheads, so if you want to be understood, use the terms that
the vast majority understands and uses.
02
Oh dear, another one without the basic maths of metric conversion skills !
42
Actually, having been brought up to imperial measures, that is usually what I think in. However, I can also visualise in centimetres easily. If I see millimetres, I automatically mentally convert to centimetres! I also mentally roughly convert those centimetres into inches. My tapes gave both inches and centimetres, each showing subdivisions.
You still end up buying ‘four by two’ (inches) of timber in metre lengths! How silly is that!
Our car speedo has its main gradings in miles per hour, fainter gradings in kilometres per hour, so how’s about that? When we were living in Germany with the British Army, one of the important parts of the driving test for us was memorising kilometre equivalents to our miles. That stays with one for life.
Children who had to learn about imperial measurements; in distance, inches, feet, miles, furlongs, etc. and in weights, ounces, pounds, stones, not to mention in currency, pounds, shillings and pence, soon learnt a bit about arithmetic.
My husband had a job as a teenager in a fruit and veggie shop…he could add up all the £sd in his head. I’ve encountered ‘educated’ young check-out chicks who can’t add a few metric sums in their heads and who look astonished when I have already worked out the exact cash to hand over long before they’ve added it up on the screen! 🙂
40
All good.
Here’s the issue:
At #1, Tdef cited ”15-18 cm.”, then later, ”a bit less than 10 cm.”
In another comment, he attempts to convert 15-18 Cm. as 6-7 inches
and 10 Cm to 4 inches.
18 cm. doesn’t convert to 7 inches for a start, and the ”less than 10 cm.” doesn’t
convert to 4 inches either.
Bottom line:
It’s not a highbrow Blog for specialists, use the vernacular, which is
Millimetres, and remember that 1 mm., spread over the Oceans, is
a colossal amount of water
11
I don’t consider millimetres to be the ‘vernacular’…I always viewed them as measurements used by engineers and scientists in the main.
41
That would be silly, if it happened.
In fact, all timber is racked, marked, and sold in Millimetres as regards Width and
Thickness,and in Metres to one decimal place in respect of Length,
in increments of .3 M., roughly equivalent to a Foot.
30
Hmm. So you’ve worked in the timber industry? (Just thinking you have been wrong about herbicide usage in plantations.)
00
I once used to stack green timber in mm x lots of 0.3m, a long time ago manually. Gives you muscles in your s**t.
00
What size trousers do you buy, 32,34,36,38,40,42 ?
21
No sure where you’re coming from there, but let’s give you the benefit of the doubt
re weird stalking:
Junk room, rather than waist size, is the critical consideration, which rules out
cheap duds manufactured in Asia.
10
no wonder you prefer to use mm. !
02
Speed in furlongs per fortnight then?
10
weird comment, so do those people not exist then? in your mental cinema
Yes.
Same with people who produce drawings in 1st Angle.
Like the quote goes, “I used metric. I am not a savage.”
01
Even Portugese has the “polegada”
00
WOW, can’t even change from cm to mm.. a product of modern education, no doubt ! 😉
33
The person who posts in Centimetres hasn’t got the skills to convert to Millimetres, which is
now the vernacular?
I doubt that, but let’s not totally discount the likelihood that he’s merely Larping.
13
could it be mathematical ineptitude from primary school ?
21
And when you take into account that the tide gauge land is sinking (shown by GPS) the actual rise is less than 3″ (6.5cm) per century.
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/12/sydney-sea-levels-rising-at-just-6-5cm-per-century-peak-panic-is-behind-us/
50
Hmmm.
1880 on the left; 2016 on the right.
High tide stain is what you’re looking at:
https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/276500-1.png
20
‘To summarize, the scientific literature does not lend support to claims fires in Australia are connected to warming, rising CO2 emissions, dry climates, or wet climates.
‘If there were a potential climate linkage, it would be that enhanced fire activity arises in cooler climates.
‘In other words, there is no apparent link to anthropogenic global warming that can be supported by evidence found in the scientific literature.’
Notrickszone
30
Unfortunately, the Alarmists, Media, Politicians, Action Groups, etc, etc,…..
……are not interested in the science, facts, or reality.
We are gonna’ need a bigger gun !
30
Its all grist to the mill for a Royal Commission.
00
is this guy an alarmist or just another expert to dismiss? He wears a bandana!
https://twitter.com/Phil_Zylstra/status/1217561858451763200?s=20
12
Most of what he has to say is fair and reasonable, but like every academic looking for grant money he plants the obligatory global warming meme.
‘Today’s massive fires happen because of overwhelmingly clear effects of climate change. Landscapes are dry that haven’t been for thousands of years, massive dry lightning storms happen that didn’t happen before.’
20
Really. How do you know?
10
I stalked him
10
Same. I thought it was a hair net.
He should try wearing a brown tee shirt.
00
In Nottingham, England, the city council is planning to make the city ‘carbon neutral’ by 2028.
Here’s a link to their current document on the subject (it’s a pdf) on the subject:
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Nottingham’s%202028%20Carbon%20Neutral%20Charter%20(1).pdf
I’ve only just had had a quick look through it. There’s a lot of corporate waffle, but I intend to take a closer look at their claims. I’d welcome any comments and links to data contradicting what they say.
Are any other cities in other countries coming up with this sort of thing?
40
Carbon500 –
13 Jan: BusinessGreen: Imperial College and Mayor of London beef up plans for Centre for Climate Change Innovation
by Business Green staff
Major new clean tech hub aims to harness ‘new ideas to turn the tide on climate change’.
Imperial College has unveiled fresh details for its plan to develop one of the world’s leading clean technology hubs at its White City Campus in West London, confirming late last week that the flagship project is in line for a £8.6m of grant funding from the London Mayor’s office. The fund, which is subject to contract, comes as the University is working on plans to raise a further £25m to support the new centre, which is being led by its Grantham Institute – Climate Change and the Environment…
https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3084972/imperial-college-and-mayor-of-london-beef-up-plans-for-centre-for-climate-change-innovation
13 Jan: London Power: Mayor launches green energy company for city’s households
by Madeleine Cuff
Launch of City Hall-owned London Power is part of Mayor Khan’s plan to make London a ‘zero carbon city’ by 2050…
To get London Power off the ground City Hall teamed up with Octopus Energy, which will provide customer service expertise. “We couldn’t be happier to launch London Power in partnership with the Mayor, to offer Londoners a good deal on planet-friendly power and to reinvest City Hall’s profits into community projects aimed at creating a more carbon neutral city,” said Stuart Jackson, co-founder and CFO of Octopus Energy said in a statement…
https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3084974/london-power-mayor-launches-green-energy-company-for-city-households
13 Jan: PortsmouthNews: Hampshire County Council reveals climate change plans: wildflowers, energy saving and wind turbine policy change
by Maria Zaccaro
MORE trees and wildflowers along roads and new investment into energy saving initiatives are among the measures set to be taken in Hampshire in a bid to tackle climate change – as well as revoking a policy that prevents wind farms on county land.
County bosses have approved plans to plant trees and wildflowers on highways land and verges and create a matching-fund of a total of £1m to pay for measures such as solar panels and LED lighting.
Becoming carbon neutral by 2050 and reviewing county council policies and strategies over the next five years are also among the moves agreed by cabinet members at Hampshire County Council on Monday. (Jan 6).
The news comes as last year the authority declared a climate emergency and set up a commission to look into the actions that need to be taken to tackle climate change over the next three decades…
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/hampshire-county-council-reveals-climate-change-plans-wildflowers-energy-saving-and-wind-turbine-policy-change-1-9199943
20
Thanks Pat, plenty of reading for me here!
00
Sorry everyone – the Nottingham council pdf link doesn’t work. Try this and follow the on-site directiond:
https://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/cn2028
10
Never knew Ventusky weather service existed until a friend said he uses it in preference to Bom for local weather .
Certainly different .
00
There’s
https://www.windy.com/-Rain-thunder-rain?rain,-26.406,145.665,9
too
10
There’s a certain excitement to using BoM: you have no idea of the margins of error any more.
00
It is 80 degrees and the Mangos have decided to bloom. Ditto the Macademia nuts.
We are unlikely to have a frost, so we’ll have an early crop if I can shoot enough squirrels to
get any for us. Tourism (in Fla.) is up. I’m trying hard to make this into a global crisis but it’s just not happening
for me. Florida is green and tourists from the frozen tundra of the north are keeping it that way by coming down in droves.
There are a few forlorn picketers trying to put airport arrivals in a bad mood by accusing them of killing the planet
as they get off the plane. Most folks avert their eyes as we do for beggars in a third world country. I’d like to get the kids back to removing
monofiliment from the beaches and dead brush from the forests instead of picketing city hall.
Perhaps we can fight the crazy greens by making real environmentalism respectable again.
60
Alas, Florida may still get a frost. Arctic air headed your way, but may not get that far.
00
Politicians in Canberra are talking about the National Energy Guarantee again, Government and Opposition members.
It’s time to learn what it is;
https://web.archive.org/web/20180805061319/http://stopturnbull.com/national-poverty-guarantee-2017-2018/
20
18th June, 2018 – The Australian newspaper reports that the Turnbull Government (via its ‘Energy Security Board’) secretly told a group of expert advisors to power companies and large industrial energy users that its so-called “National Energy Guarantee” (NEG) policy is a carbon dioxide emissions intensity trading scheme “by stealth” that would favour wind and solar power. The government forced these people to sign confidentiality agreements to prevent the information becoming public.
Economics professor Judith Sloan says:
“[The NEG] knocks out coal and…knocks out gas….It’s an ongoing subsidy to renewable energy.”
50
Fortunately only nuclear could knock out coal and gas. No subsidy on earth can make the wind blow at night if it does not want to, which is often the case. Batteries would cost trillions of dollars, if they could even be made and made to work at that scale.
50
The NEG was an absolute dog. Look at the many assumptions in the spreadsheet calculations at the back, and you realise that the calculations are classic NBN style. The majority of the NEG report seemed to have been written by a consultant with CSIRO input, I think the same consultant that was involved in Snowy 2.
60
BoM Annual Climate Statement 2019
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/annual/aus/?utm_medium=display&utm_source=bom-homepage&utm_campaign=climate&utm_term=climate&utm_content=banner-090120-annualclimatestatement
00
Teachers Union wants climate based social revolution taught in English classes
By David Wojick
https://www.cfact.org/2020/01/13/teachers-union-wants-climate-based-social-revolution-taught-in-english-classes/
I am not making this up. The American Federation of Teachers is promoting the teaching of Action Now! climate radicalism in America’s English classes. They basically claim that climate change hysteria should be part of our culture and it requires a social revolution. Apparently English classes are the proper place to train social revolutionaries.
No wonder the children are terrified of their future. The radical premise of the Action Now! movement is that we are all going to die from climate change unless we rapidly restructure our social and economic systems.
In this case the message is delivered via a long article in the latest issue of AFT’s magazine American Educator, titled “Climate Change in the Classroom: A Natural Part of English Language Arts.” https://www.aft.org/ae/winter2019-2020/beach_share_webb
For those who haven’t kept up, English Language Arts is what used to be called English class, where cool stuff like literature and poetry are taught.
Obviously this is not a science class but then the Action Now! people clearly have no use for science. In that sense their fictional horror story beliefs might fit right into the English curriculum but that is not what the AFT authors have in mind. They want revolution, not education, with the mindless horror story taught as doomlike truth.
Here is how the AFT authors put it: “We believe that a purely science-oriented approach to climate change can miss the social, historical, ethical and human realities that are critical to the problem. Climate change is an accelerator that exacerbates economic, racial, and social inequality.“
The last sentence illustrates the bizarre fusion of the climate change and social justice movements. This is why these people insist that addressing climate change requires a social revolution. It has nothing to do with emission reductions or adaptation. The goal is economic equality! Yet this doctrine is to be taught in English classes. This is arguably the most stupid thing I have ever heard, but AFT is apparently all for it.
The authors even say students should be graded on activism, not on learning. They say this: “Fostering civic engagement can also shift the overall focus of English from positioning students as autonomous individuals or consumers set apart from the world to students as social participants whose ways of being and acting directly affect the local and global ecology. This shift involves redefining academic success based less on individual achievement and test scores and more on one’s social and collaborative relationships with others and how our actions can contribute to sustainability and environmental justice.“
As for scaring the children into action, here is the author’s absurd starting point: “Global warming will have a devastating impact in every country. Current understanding indicates that a catastrophic world of mass starvation, mass flooding, mass migration, and mass death of hundreds of millions, perhaps billions, of people may happen much sooner than most expect, particularly in developing countries.“
Maybe this is where Greta gets it — from her teachers. Not only do these authors expect the mass death of billions, but now it might be sooner.
So one day in English class we will read Shakespeare and the next we will hear about the coming mass death of billions, maybe sooner than we expect. Run screaming!
Actually I think Shakespeare would have loved this stuff. My favorite summary of Hamlet is “where a prince and a ghost meet, and everybody ends in mincemeat.” Then too there is in fact an entire genre called “climate fiction” or cli-fi, a form of sci-fi where the human created monster is horribly bad weather or some such nonsense. This is scary junk that one could legitimately study in English class.
Whereas these AFT authors are deadly serious, which makes them a genuine menace to society. According to the website: “The American Federation of Teachers, an affiliate of the AFL-CIO, was founded in 1916 and today represents 1.7 million members in more than 3,000 local affiliates nationwide.”
That this huge Union should promote terrorizing our children with the imminent threat of mass death is (choose your words). This madness must stop. Surely the School Boards do not approve it?
Support my Climate Change Debate Education Project
https://ccdedu.blogspot.com
https://www.gofundme.com/f/climate-change-debate-education
David
80
More madness, closer to home:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/13/new-zealand-schools-to-teach-students-about-climate-crisis-activism-and-eco-anxiety
But says the indoctrination is not mandatory, which creates an interesting situation.
70
Bring Back Salem!
00
“climate based social revolution taught in English classes”
You could only teach it in “English” or “Social Science”…
… because that’s all it equates to.
41
Back in the 70s English classes were full of lefty indoctrination that had nothing to do with the English language. Some things haven’t changed.
50
They certainly don’t teach much English anymore. !!
31
David,
You and I (and i’m sure many others) appear to be on a similar wave length in this regard. I intend posting something here at the next unthreaded opportunity about my own little effort. In the meantime below is a post I made on Jo’s Blog back in July last year, I think you commented at the time. Keep up your good work.
“Kevin Rudd once famously said that climate change was the great moral challenge of our generation. He may well have been correct, albeit unwittingly.
The New South Wales Education Department has a published document entitled Code of Conduct, aimed at informing all of The Department’s employees but of course specifically teachers.
Under the heading, Duty of Care, article 21.2 of this document refers to
‘Considerations of safety relate to both physical and psychological wellbeing of individuals’.
Apart from the immorality of fomenting fear in the minds of children, the one-sided promotion of apocalyptic scenarios about climate change is palpably detrimental to the psychological welfare of some students.
In this respect a teacher could be seen as guilty of malfeasance and by doing nothing the Department could be seen as aiding and abetting.
They do not appear to have done anything to mitigate the fear and anxiety associated with the climate change debate put about by some teachers and their silence only deepens the children’s psychological stress.
I look forward to the day that this immorality is challenged in court, perhaps in the form of a class action”.
Will someone with credibility and influence take up the cause?
30
Meanwhile on Their ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-01-16/blob-seabird-murre-die-off-climate-change-marine-heatwave/11867264
And I’m waiting for them to post the text version of this morning’s broadcast news item about last year being the second hottest ever, the last five years being the hottest and the sea getting warmer, complete with Will Steffen’s emotive commentary blaming the government.
30
The Oz has this: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/science/2019-second-hottest-year-on-record/news-story/85352f029e554413d532ab4a31b50eb2
I suppose there are two questions:
1. is it correct? and, if so
2. could somebody please demonstrate how carbon dioxide is the cause and not an effect of this.
40
It is quite probably what the homogenisation to urban warming from the some 45% of unfit-for-purpose climate site comes out with it being the warmist year.
UAH has 2019 as 4th warmest in 41 years.
There has still been a marginal ENSO El Nina hanging around, so its not surprising there has been no cooling. La Nino is forecast by the end of this year.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that human released atmospheric CO2 has had any affect on this beneficial warming.
50
In the movie A Night to Remember there is a scene where Andrews is talking to Captain Smith about using the pumps to help keep Titanic afloat and he says “they buy you minutes only”. It seems to me that there is a strong analogy between the water pumps and the CO2 emissions reduction hysteria, the latter buying fractions of a degree reduction in temperature (maybe). Utterly futile, although the former could have been important if the Californian had responded to the emergency.
On a sarcastic note, I have never heard of any of this being predicted by Nostradamus!
70
“William Happer – Climate Models Do CO2 With Incorrect Radiative Wings”
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/01/14/william-happer-climate-models-do-co2-with-incorrect-radiative-wings/
30
“1939 Fires Burned Most Of The Forest From Melbourne To Canberra”
https://realclimatescience.com/2020/01/1939-fires-burned-most-of-the-forest-from-melbourne-to-canberra/
70
Here’s the real tragedy:
Those forests were allowed to regrow in their natural state, causing
untold future death and misery over and over again.
41
Except their “natural state” includes a regular burning cycle, which green policy refuses to endorse.
50
What’s the cost of a proper Burning Cycle.
Recall, Cook and the other explorers observed that the entire East Coast was permanently
blanketed with smoke from the fires.
So, there’s 3 options, 2 have been tried:
1. Continuous Burning, practised pre-1788 successfully, Hunter/Gatherer friendly.
2. Current Ad Hoc system, mixed results, disasters unavoidable.
3. Remove the Eucalypt Species. Only realistic solution.
52
I’ll also go with the third option, but if we are going to go with a total geoengineering makeover then we should expect nothing less than filling every unused lake system in NSW with Ord water.
Could we also do something with our Martian desert landscapes?
20
Recall that Lake Eyre fills every so often.
I suggest that the desert landscape could be the result of Hunter/Gatherers burning
their way from the North West landfall to the East and South East
over a 2,000+ year period.
22
That sounds like an unpublished last chapter for Pascoe’s Dark Emu fiction.
Keep going hatband. You’ll get a literary grant and award with that stuff.
32
‘… over a 2,000+ year period.’
Like back to the Roman Warm Period? Your history is flawed, for over 40,000 years people lived in south east Australia and they managed the bush with fire.
On walkabout the women would pick up wood and carry it on their heads to the next camp, so by the time the first Europeans came over the Blue Mountains they said the Bathurst Plains looked like Arcadia.
41
I should also mention that Australia is a natural desert and at the Last Glacial Maximum (18,000 BP) sand dunes reached the Great Dividing Range and dust settled on the eastern seaboard.
41
Got any credible Links to support that AgitProp?
Any credible Links for that Howler?
11
Re: your first piece of ignorance.
Have you never heard or read of Mungo Man or Lake Mungo hatband?
LM1; LM2 and, LM3?
40,000 + years ago.
Educate yourself:
https://wikimili.com/en/Lake_Mungo_remains
00
Mungo Man has been dated to at least 80,000 years and Kow Swamp Woman similarly.
These remains are of a completely different race to the pre-1788 indigenes, for
whom there isn’t evidence for in Australia longer than c. 2,000 tears.
See Windschuttle.
Your assertion is only supported by Green Left Propaganda.
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Now, that’s a first. 🙂
Me, being accused of supporting Green Left Propaganda.
Holy cow.
Quick. Tell GA and Peter Fitzroy.
I’m sure they’ll have something incredulous to say.
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the mini-Mal government just keeps turning a deeper shade of green:
Australia’s bipartisan climate action agenda has real economic consequences. Late last year Bluescope Steel diverted a billion dollars investment to the USA, a billion dollars worth of investment in jobs and national income, because of concerns about soaring Australian energy prices.
The Australian government’s condescending advice to companies worried about energy costs is to improve the efficiency of their operations.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/15/has-the-aussie-government-surrendered-to-climate-activists/
50
Scotty is copying Turnbull, trying to outflank Labor to the Left, Voter wise,
and to the Right, Donor wise.
It eventually ended in tears for Turnbull, but
the Liberal Party still refuses to heed the lesson.
70
Hard to tell with that WUWT article. It is after all quoting from an ABC report.
00
Changes in AEMO Wholesale Electricity Market Prices.
For calendar year 2018, SA had the highest wholesale electricity price at $94/Mwhr, closely followed by Vic $92, with NSW/Qld $84/$75.
For 2019, the order changed, with Vic the highest at $108/MWhr, then SA $86, NSW $84 and Qld $69.
But for the last two months of 2019, prices averaged just $63 across the board.
Vic and SA dropped from $95 for the same two months in 2018 to $65 in 2019 and that has continued into January 2020 with the exception of NSW that has soared to $132.
Are we seeing the impact of more rooftop solar dropping spot prices to near zero in the middle of the day?
40
disorganise
January 15, 2020 at 6:26 pm – previous thread
Now sure where to post this, but y’all may be interested
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/denham-near-shark-bay-first-wa-town-to-be-powered-by-hydrogen/11870472
I have battled through the article which features a picture of 2 emus. I cannot say which was the ABC reporter.
As I read it the town runs on wind energy (60%) and diesel. There are household PV panels which would add to the usage but not show up in the demand figures at the generating station. Horizon Power propose a 60kW solar PV pilot plant before installing a 500kW solar plant.
The 60kW plant would supply 3 kWh each day to 100 homes.
A 500kW plant would supply 1.25kWh per day for the peak population of 2000. Presumably the wind turbines would supply the rest of the daily 3.1kWh per inhabitant. (Obviously with a minimum temperature of 22℃ there would be little need for heating, but air-conditioning?)
I don’t see much excess electricity in that.
A full scale plant would generate 912500 kWh per annum, which would produce 16951 kg H2 (243,550 Litres) and use 152 tons of water. How you ‘store’ hydrogen gas in a fuel cell escapes me; I assume the reporter heard that the hydrogen would be fed to fuel cells to generate electricity and imagined that they would have stored fuel ready to go at all times. There is no evidence that the reporter was Peter Fitzroy.
My thought are that it would be more reliable to install new diesels, as they will still be needed.
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What’s wrong with the Surface Record?
Still a great resource for information, graphs and records, the latter particularly in the Appendix.
http://www.john-daly.com/ges/surftmp/surftemp.htm
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Did you know that some 40-45% of BOM’s surface data sites are UNFIT-FOR-PURPOSE according to their own criteria. !
30
Yes AndyG55. One of many relevant points made by the late great John Daly in his wide-ranging article “What’s Wrong With The Surface Record”?
30
Ken from Ken’s Kingdom has just completed a full investigation of all BOM’s sites
Quite franking, they are a TOTAL MESS, and make any temperature calculation coming from BOM totally MEANINGLESS.
40
In light of the ‘minister for science [truth]’ declaring the science is settled!!!, let’s see:
What Scientists Know for Sure
“WHEN DID AGW HUMAN CAUSED CLIMATE CHANGE START?
Callendar 1938: It started in 1900 and warmed steadily from 1900 to 1938 with the warming driven by rising CO2 which in turn is attributable to fossil fuel emissions.
Hansen 1988: It started in 1950 because in the 30-year period 1950-1980 there is a strong measurable warming rate with 99% probability for human cause.
IPCC 2001: It started in 1750 when the Industrial Revolution kicked in and atmospheric CO2 began to rise.
IPCC 2015: It started in 1850 by when sufficient fossil fuel carbon had entered the atmosphere for a measurable response of temperature to CO2.
NASA 2020: It started in 1950 because from then the relationship between CO2 and temperature we see in the climate models closely matches the observational data.
Climate Scientist Peter Cox 2018: It started in the 1970s because it is since then that we see a measurable responsiveness of surface temperature to atmospheric CO2 concentration according to the theory of the greenhouse effect of CO2.”
So much ‘settled science’ there, if only they could settle on a date, a cause and an effect then it would all be ‘settled!’.
…more ‘settled science’ at
https://tambonthongchai.com/2019/12/25/earth-day-wisdom/
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And also at link:
as it becomes clear that the predicted warming is not appearing, the range of temperature at which we must ‘do something’ likewise contracts:
2001: when it warms 5C above pre-industrial, warming will become irreversible
2007: when it warms 4C above pre-industrial, warming will become irreversible
2013: when it warms 3C above pre-industrial, warming will become irreversible
2015: when it warms 2C above pre-industrial, warming will become irreversible
2018: when it warms 1.5C above pre-industrial, warming will become irreversible
but it’s all settled!!!
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Jusr watching some motor sport from France. Circuit racing for cars and bikes on snow (glad they are getting this in before we dont have snow any more)
The racing was held in increasing blizzard condition. The cars and bikes raced over 6 laps and it was pretty wild. The even had an EV category. Oddly they only raced over two laps, for some reason.
30
Well its the 16th of Jan here in Wellington NZ, and its another overcast day hovering around 14 degrees.
Down to 11 most nights.
Coldest January I can remember in a long time.
60
A blast from the past, from plain speaking great grandmother;
Human Origin CO2?
Why are we still talking about this.
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/01/global-patsy-since-1990-each-australian-have-already-cut-co2-emissions-by-40/#comment-2257010
KK
10
Sorry, wrong link.
http://joannenova.com.au/2011/08/blockbuster-planetary-temperature-controls-co2-levels-not-humans/#comment-416131
10
Here’s something you don’t see everyday !
Whole Russian government resigns!
Medvedev and Putin had met for a work meeting to discuss the state-of-the-nation address earlier on Wednesday, the Kremlin said. Medvedev explained that the cabinet is resigning in accordance with Article 117 of the Russian Constitution, which states that the government can offer its resignation to the president, who can either accept or reject it.
Also, TAAL has been moved from alert level 2 (out of 5) to 4. Now rated a threat to the planet and climate.
20
Can you hear me
that when it rains and shines
it’s just a state of mind
Can you hear me
Can you hear me
Rain – The Beatles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK5G8fPmWeA
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Saw on Michael Smith News – Chairman Mal has used an article in Time Magazine to call for a Green New Deal for Australia.
Wow.
Malcolm seems to have discovered that part of his legacy is going to fall on the wrong side of history, and is now attempting to retcon the other half to ensure all of his legacy stays together for neatness, OR he has finally come out and declared his long standing belief that Lenin was part of the Alt-Right.
Wow.
60
Chairman Mal: “It is a simple matter of physics. The more greenhouse gases are in the atmosphere, the hotter our climate will become.”
That we have a fully complaint media is made very clear by that fact that Turnbull can still trot out the “a simple matter of physics” line.
If you accept the unproven hypothesis of agw, then there is (1) a logarithmic warming effect of co2 of about 1 degree per doubling of co2 (Richard Lindzen); (2) positive feedbacks that will lead to increased warming. These feedbacks are modelling assumptions, not “a simple matter of physics”.
Indeed, the physics are so ‘simple’ that the sensitivity of cliamte keeps getting revised down.
Oh, but it’s all settled.
70
Poor Malcolm, the gullible punter condemned permanently to the shameless pursuit of riches beyond measure…
30
He must have read that somewhere because he has zero physics. He doesn’t even have a right to say the word.
50
Lenin was funded by the German Bankers, Trotsky by Wall Street.
Did they get their money’s worth?
It may be too early to say.
21
Lenin was a bank robber, As was Stalin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1907_Tiflis_bank_robbery
31
If they’d robbed all the Banks in pre-Bolshevik Russia, they still wouldn’t have scored $20
million in Gold when Gold was $20/oz., which is what Kuhn Loeb gave Trotsky to pay off the
Sailors and the Don Cossacks to grease the skids for their AstroTurf Revolution
10
They only robbed banks that had money in them.
Remember the old saw, do you?
Question: Why do bank robbers rob banks?
Answer: Because that’s where the money is.
Boom, boom!
11
Yep.
And through the American Red Cross no less.
10
There was a farmer on with Luke Grant on 2gb this afternoon talking about the Tathra fires and how the local council (under NSW government legislation of course) rezoned farm land as environmental which prevented land clearing and created dangerous fuel loads.
Member of NSW government was even down there in 2018 and saw it.
I will post the audio when it is available.
50
“State ignored warnings of bushfire ‘death trap’ by South Coast farmers” Jan 16
It’s up now:
https://www.2gb.com/ben-fordham-sydney-live-podcasts/
20
The late Dr.Bob Carter on preparations for natural disasters we know from experience will continue to occur, no matter what the cause. A pity that apparently no politician was listening!
http://members.iinet.net.au/~glrmc/RMC-15-Precautionary%20Principle-302.mp4
20
The PM is talking of ‘resilience and adaptation’ to address climate change, which Bob Carter would have endorsed.
20
Czn hardly
00
So, lets try that again
Can hardly wait for the Bushfire Aid Concert in Sydney. It will be great to hear the virtuous lecturing from genius muso climate scientists that have drawn a direct cause and effect link between AGW and these specific fires.
30
Cue the alarmist excuse book:
bushfires = climate change
rain = weather.
20
Terribly sad news. The last of that trio of brilliant comic actors has passed away:
Derek Fowlds dead: Heartbeat and Yes Minister star dies age 82
And here IMHO is his most brilliant contribution – from the Bed of Nails episode:
Go to 10:15
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5v4rhx
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