The price for the coverup will be huge
Donald Trump crossed the Rubicon by pulling funding from the WHO and asking China to ‘fess up’. Now no respectable politician wants to be left out in the race to demand answers and the WHO is an open target too. The UN agency helped China hide the severity of this disease and advised nations not to stop flights with China. The World Health Organisation failed in the one job they were designed for.
DailyMail.co.uk
Australia’s Foreign Minister will demand a global inquiry into the spread of COVID-19 – and says the World Health Organisation should play no part in it.
China told her the disease was both ‘preventable and curable’ during a conversation in late January.
As diplomatic faux pas go, it doesn’t get much worse than bringing a deadly disease to a party and telling everyone “it’s just the flu”. But China was scalping the medical gear too. Not only did China hide the true nature of the virus even as it shared the virus around. It harvested all the protective gear it knew the world would need, then held the world hostage. It even took donations from Italy, then made Italy pay to get their own donations back:
Italy gave China PPE to help with coronavirus — then China made them buy it back
Amber Athey, The Spectator
After COVID-19 made its way to Italy, decimating the country’s significant elderly population, China told the world it would donate Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) to help Italy stop its spread. Reports later indicated that China had actually sold, not donated, the PPE to Italy. A senior Trump administration official tells The Spectator that it is much worse than that: China forced Italy to buy back the PPE supply that it gave to China during the initial coronavirus outbreak.
But there is a flip-side– when China said ” it’s curable and preventable”, the follow-up question the media are not asking our politicians yet is: And you believed China? Because if the Foreign Ministry and Health Departments had been doing the same research I was (like, watching the Twitter feed out of China) it would have been obvious China was not acting like it was preventable and curable. We don’t weld people in apartments when they get pneumonia.
At least a part of the rush to demand answers from China is because most of the leaders in the free world failed to protect their citizens, and The Scapegoat is now in sight.
Make that Scapegoats:
China needs a review, but the WHO are not the ones to do it. At least Western Governments are now aware of how compromised the WHO is:
When pressed, Ms Payne said she does not believe the World Health Organisation should be involved, given their proximity to the crisis up until this point.
There are nearly a million signatures on the Sack Tedros Petition.
Imagine the anger if the virus turns out to be lab escapee, or something worse?
IF there’s a positive aspect to this current tragedy it is that the actions of world leaders have finally been opened up to scrutiny.
Certainly the leadership of China has been spotlighted, but increasingly the failure of the European Experiment and the specific complicity of Italy’s government in enabling a loose border pact with China is all now open to scrutiny.
Possibly, open borders relates to health risks that are unacceptable and New York and Italy are just the leading examples of a worldwide governance problem.
No country is immune to the damage that can be inflicted through profiteering by the governing Elites.
Australia has prominent examples and it is time that National Leadership world wide is cleaned up.
It isn’t the people of China, Australia, Italy, U.K. or Sweden who are at fault here; it’s the governing class that should be looked at very closely.
KK
560
There are two possible paths from here. One, we as a nation take advantage of the economic crisis and flush down the toilet all the plans that only will ever achieve economic destruction, such as emission reductions. Instead we should have worthwhile plans, such as building base load power stations, dams and the like. Two, nothing changes and we continue on the same path as before, which will only end in tears. I’m not sure which path we are on yet.
381
“I’m not sure which path we are on yet” PeterS. Lets turn this around to “what path must we insist upon and how do we ensure the political class (let’s never call them the leadership class again) accept it and advance it. My biggest fear is that we go back to taws and it all gets swept under the carpet.
170
Sadly that’s likely and the chances of arousing the voters to be proactive in placing their ballots might be too much to hope for.
We do need to push this.
100
Which Path will get the scumbags in power more money and more power, that’s the path we’ll be on
Don’t for a moment think they care about expanding humanity or looking after the people or anything like that… virtually every decision they make is about themselves
About the only time they do anything for us is election time, which is still about them anyway getting back into power
90
Keith,
Perhaps the we could think that the NHI of the US is being investigated also as they funded corona virus research in Wuhan. Under Obama presidency and Fauci head of the NHI gave $3.7 million for research in corona virus engineering.
At press meetings Trump is sometimes given to cryptic comments. This time he alludes to PEPFAR and the NHI investigations and he specifically mentions $3.7 mill funding.
100
That sounds like a good start.
20
This is currently a significant concern, and wanted to draw your attention to something that is complete nonsense :
I seriously think they think Australians are beyond 100% stupid. Even a Year 9 student could see this is nonsense.
This is like the Census debacle all over again.
My comments with >>>> in front
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/government-insists-coronavirus-tracing-app-wont-track-locations/12163756
Community privacy concerns have forced the Federal Government to insist a coronavirus tracing app will neither track people’s locations nor be available for law enforcement agencies to access.
>>>> OK – so why bother with it then?
“Government Services Minister Stuart Robert said the soon-to-be-released app would be voluntary but conceded its effectiveness would be enhanced if the bulk of the population downloaded it.
“He sought to play down concerns the app would track people’s location and get them into trouble if they failed to adhere to physical-distancing restrictions.
>>>> OK : Why bother having an app that can talk to other people but then not report back the location where it found someone who was infected?
“”All it will tell me is that you and I were in, for 15 minutes or more, 1.5 metres in proximity to each other,” he said.
“”[It] won’t tell us where, because that’s irrelevant, or what you’re doing.
“”We don’t care where you are or what you’re doing.”
“Mr Robert said when people downloaded the app they would be required to enter:
“Their name
“Their age range
“Their postcode
“Their phone number
“He said when people were within 1.5 metres for 15 minutes, the app via Bluetooth, would record the other person’s name and phone number.
>>> Most people have location services turned on, ergo…..
50
Steve, the comment seems to be disconnected?
20
Steve,
the point of the app is not to “report back the location where it found someone who was infected” but to report the contact information of people that you may have infected.
11
In relation to that funding Boris it looks like Fauci broke the law (to put it kindly).
Here is a brave doctor explaining it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGbYHJcMbz8
I think it could all hit the fan big time, given what you say President Trump has said.
30
Fascinating; we’re to be vaccinated with rfid chips to make us trackable under 5G. I’m taking a breather before continuing from 30:39; at this stage it seems unlikely I’ll be endorsing the brave doctor’s views.
11
Serp ,I agree some of the things in the second half of the video seem a it of a stretch but what he says in the first bit particularly about the funding of the Wuhan lab and how the research that had been stopped/banned in the US adds up because NIH have confirmed the funding.
I think Boris is drawing the right conclusions. We will see. There is obviously a lot more to come out about it.
20
Yep. Fauci eh, what a diabolical creature he is!
10
Ross,
The funny thing is that Trump sometimes says things in a cryptic way and although they are real clangers it remains to be seen if a real investigation is undertaken. It could still be white washed.
Let’s hope you’re right and the shirt hits the fan with treasonous politicians, bureaucrats and so called ‘philanthropists’ in the west are tried in the courts. But my realistic side doubts it.
20
It’s not just the politicians
It’s been totally aided and abetted by the media
Msm and the ABC have been a propaganda arm for pushing the UN and extreme left agendas
People are becoming aware of the lies but have difficulty in find the truth in this matter
It’s only through blog sites like this and passing on factual information will there be a backlash against agenda pushers
510
I think the media more than just aiding, they are in fact leading.
Who makes the polls to convince the public that A is bad, vote for B?
Who writes the scary environmental articles “Great Barrier Reef is Dying” and stuff?
Who supports stupid windmills and solar ideas with no regard to practicality or feasibility?
Who leads with nonsense stories about plastic and others?
Who refuses to publish any dissent of their pet ideals?
No; the polly’s might be stupid, but it’s the media who are leading the charge.
510
Ummm! the ABC.
120
ABC, SMH, Age and Guardian, but the most recent polls show the government has behaved correctly and Morrison is doing well out of this Covid 19 pandemic.
141
Well said Greg.
Underlying all that is what I don’t get. That is, why do people in the media – they are people – hate
themselves, their own society and their own nation so much? Why are they so full of it
that they hate anyone who disagrees with them so much? Even politicians looking for
essential votes hate the same people so much that they call them Deplorables, Delcons!
Where does all this hate for Western Culture come from? I listened to BBC radio yesterday
and watched CNN last evening. Both had ‘interviewers’ closely questioning politicians or
Commentators over China and this virus. The intolerance and patent malice on display by
both questioners in defence of China was astounding. To give the interviewed their due, they
were amazingly forthright in the defence of their positions.
I fear that when the West and hopefully everyone else all hit the fan with China over its
malinformation ( mis/ dis / mal all in vogue), much of the media will be in denial and
forming the backbone of China’s defence. How much does China have in pecuniary
Interests in western media?
I await the day that Western businesses, voluntarily or are forced by government sanctions
to withdraw from China and go home (preferably) or redistribute themselves amongst
alternative cheaper producing nations. Hopefully it will be voluntarily as they realise
China is probably sucking their R & D knowledge dry.
150
If you get to know a local newspaper reporter you’ll quickly discover what habitually dishonest louses they are and what deceptive characters they have. They are the snakes in the grass, complete fictions and plagiarism are fine if it can sell advertisement space and make a buck. It doesn’t even mater if they’re caught lying any more, the show must go on. Combine such people with politicians and you get the lie scripts read out on the MSM every day.
100
Yes the MSM are part of the problem. So are our public education systems. However, the buck stops with the state and federal leaders. They are the ones who set the standards and policies. They are the ones who fund the policies. The ABC for example must now be defunded, for the same sorts of reasons Trump has defunded the WHO. In fact there are many more reasons to do so in ABC’s case. Yet we have gutless leaders who are clueless as the what’s happening around them for so long. It’s as though they live in ivory towers and don’t give a damn what’s happening in the real world. Oh wait a minute, perhaps that’s the root cause of the problem!
130
A biased MSM is the main problem, so we are looking for a charismatic leader who will take them on and win. Do you have a short list of preferred candidates?
70
I can only think of one: Trump. How about we become part of the US? I rather that than be another province of China, which is where we’ve been heading of late.
91
Quoting el Gordo #2.2.1 – “A biased MSM is the main problem..” should read “A biased 100% tax payer funded MSM is the main problem….”.
60
Referring to Auntie of course.
20
Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
I don’t care if it is woman, get Margaret Thatcher had more drive than the men around her
120
‘One World’ Benefit Concert for the WHO. No end to popular delusions and the madness of crowds…
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2020/04/19/star-studded-one-world-benefit-concert-for-the-w-h-o-sparks-outrage-commie-propaganda/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=todays_hottest_stories&utm_campaign=20200419
90
Excellent point.
That link between WHO and ABCCCC, it could be a lever to catch public imagination.
60
>> “Yet we have gutless leaders who are clueless as the what’s happening around them for so long. It’s as though they live in ivory towers and don’t give a damn what’s happening in the real world.
Peter, you’re giving too many too much benefit of the doubt.
Don’t overlook that the major decision makers are compromised so they go along with the corrupt global oligarchs.
At this point anyone refusing to look at that seriously either can’t think and in delusional denial or they have some skin in the game.
50
what do ‘elites’ want to do?
control people.
how do they do it?
old mode: statist religion (opiate of the masses).
new mode: media and bureaucracy driven ‘fostering of values’.
60
Absolutely correct, the global oligarchs basically control almost all the MSM.
10
The Ruby Princess crime and the NSW government are behaving like the CCP.
Just accept responsibility and get on with it.
You don’t have to be ‘the world’s best health expert’ to know those passengers should never have disembarked from the ship.
322
The passengers on the last voyage should have not boarded the ship. Two reasons (a) some disembarking passengers were sick and the Diamond Princess was already stuck in Japan (b) who would be silly enough to board a cruise ship on 8 March when the deadly virus was already showing up globally; one woman interviewed said she could not get a refund so was bound to go!
My wife’s tennis partner was booked on a cruise that same week. She cancelled two weeks prior only after long discussions with my wife on the risks. The risks were very clear weeks before 8th March. She did not get her money back but got a 150% travel voucher for another cruise – not sure if she will be inclined to use that now or even if the ship owner will survive financially.
200
Or to rephrase Travis:
You don’t have to be ‘the world’s best health expert’ to know those passengers should never have disembarked from all those planes.
Allowing in planes from nations with runaway transmission was every bit as negligent.
181
Jo says, ‘imagine the anger…’
The west have given china a free ride for generations by exporting our jobs, allowing our technology to be stolen, agreeing to suspend the rule of law in order to do business there which must always be with a Chinese communist co partner. In addition Obama foolishly gave then a free co2 pass Until 2030. Are we mad?
Mind you the western public are complicit in buying Chinese goods or western goods made in china because they were a little cheaper.
The west must be much more self sufficient in future and much more ruthless in the way they trade and do deals with china, which includes educating their students in our universities who then go home with our knowledge. Madness stacked on madness.
Let us hope we have learnt our lesson.
I hope boris now rejects Hawaii as a partner in 5g, that five eyes thrives, the commonwealth comes together for trade and cultural exchanges and that the west gets its act together
360
Perhaps we are own own worst enemy for buying so much cheap stuff from China. So we shouldn’t just blame China. As a nation we need to rethink our purchasing patterns.
220
PeterS.
One would hope the west now realises there is an extra, hidden price for those cheap
goods. That price is to put our heads in China’s noose of total dependency.
Is there a caveat of understanding lying in the vaults of our universities where
the cost for the income from all those foreign students is to not allow any meaningful criticism of the CCP, to accept Confucian Schools of ideas, and to prevent contrarian Schools on
Western Civilisation on the same campus. Is it ‘implied’?
The Universities have to explain their anti-Western Civilisation bias OR lose their government funding. As a taxpayer, I object to paying Universities that reject centres of learning for students in their own Western Democratic Civilisation culture but become propaganda centres for alien cultures built on contrarian phenomena of despotism which has cost upwards of 100m lives in the last 150years but are considered, apparently, insignificant by the ‘caring’ left.
Something is grossly wrong from the bottom to the top of our education system, and it is breeding dissension without logic. Indeed, it seems it is specifically ‘breeding’ out the ability of
students to apply science, logic and statistics on which learning can be assessed. Enigmatically,
statistics form a major part for postgraduate learning, but people seem unwilling to apply that
discipline to the political arguments of the day. Indeed, their employment can depend on just that.
150
Peter, now you sound like our US President.
00
I suspect that almost every item I have in my house was made in China or has components made in China.
My nominally French made car has a huge number of components made in China. For example, each door latch has 4 motors, all made in China. The two front seats have 6 motors all made in China. Our Swedish branded dishwasher was made in China. All my computers and phone were made in China. Our television sets were made in China. The majority of the tools in my workshop were made in China. The curtains on our windows were made in China. The blinds on other windows were made in China. All lights and globes were mmadin China. I have 6 torches all made in China.
We do have some expensive Australian made furniture; made from Victorian ash. The IKEA kitchen chairs were made in Thailand. Lounge chairs made in Malaysia.
Tradesmen I see have an array of battery hand tools that has improved their productivity over the years. All of those tools will be made in China or have the majority of parts made in China; irrespective of the label.
Have a look around a Hare & Forbes showrroom and see if you can find any workshop equipment that is not made in China.
China relies on Australia for bulk commodities, some education and as a tourist destination. Australia relies on China for almost everything we have in our houses, offices and cars. On balance Australia is more reliant on China than China is on Australia.
I am constantly impressed by the value offered by Chinese manufactured goods.
102
China is not a problem, the CCP is.
80
>> “China is not a problem, the CCP is.”
Yes, it appears they are working in concert with western global elites, at least it seems their interests have aligned in this particular case.
But have a look at the weforum.org and analyse it carefully what they is there. I hasten to add it’s very lengthy and you can read all the added pieces if you sign up. Almost everything is in place for a world dictatorial government. But recall that the CCP, as well as all national governments are signatories to this.
A lot of smart people need to wake up.
60
Don’t forget to include the Bidens in those Western elites.
40
I think when most of here say “China” we are referring to the communist party, not the people, although most times I do spell out the whole party name to make it clear. Using CCP or CPC though would be better.
40
It is certainly true that trying to avoid buying anything from China, or just as importantly – with many Chinese components, is virtually impossible. But I know that in mechanical manufacturing the machines and tooling used is still mostly from non-Chinese sources (if you regard Taiwan as non-Chinese). Sure, the wire and switches and fasteners might by from the PRC but anything seriously at the quality end like high tolerance bearings, precision leadscrews, position encoders etc will not be from China. This has many reasons to explain it but one important one is trust. Most engineers outside of China – even Chinese ones – don’t trust Chinese ‘quality’. And now, there is the additional problem of the consumer’s emotional response to supporting China. I well remember my grand parents utter refusal to ever buy anything Japanese because of their WW2 experience. China will now be in that position but I expect a very well funded “Oh, we’re sooooo sorry” campaign from them any moment.
20
Tonyb, Hawaii? What is wrong with Hawaii? Do you mean Huawei?
50
peter
Oh! So you didn’t know about Hawaii?!! My ipad -made in china I suspect insists on changing the name
30
About now would be a good time to defund China. Too bad we can’t do that. But sanctions of some kind are certainly desirable. Oops! China has loans to the United states equaling a devastating problem if those loans were called in.
81
It’s true China has been buying American debt for some time now. And with their Belt and Roads deals throughout Africa and other nations, they’ve captured a large part of the worlds credit debt. Everybody is beholden to China, and dare not oppose them else China come and reclaim their debt.
They’ve outmanoeuvred everybody so far, and made themselves a military might to rival the States.
The US Democrats are guilty of aiding and abetting China for their own domestic policies. But China has been opportunistic for all power structures. WHO and others for example.
170
Well let’s hope PM Morrison blocks any more attempts by China to buy out companies running here in Australia, including Virgin Airlines, which is already owned by China by about 40%.
80
Therein lies the irony.
When USA or any other country decides to legally fine China for spreading the virus, they don’t have to squeeze the money from China, they just cancel the debts they have with China.
120
Treaty agreements would have something to say about cancelling debt. Remember, a treaty, once ratified by all nations that sign it has the weight of law as if each nation had passed identical laws. And the international court, which is clearly biased, would have jurisdiction over the resulting dispute.
Treaty agreements make it possible to fly from one place to another without having to cope with different air traffic regulations, to send a letter to Australia or China with equal ease. We depend on everyone following the treaty. Otherwise we become a bunch of little fiefdoms squabbling constantly over everything.
Not good.
20
China was selling stuff to USA and USA were paying in USD. China had to do something with all that USD so they bought government bonds.
These days government bonds are not much more than a capital guarantee in USD at maturity. US is not far from negative bond rates so China could end up paying an annual fee, settled at maturity, to maintain the USD guarantee.
It could be problematic if China asked for cash instead of rolling over bonds. USD1tr is a lot of paper; about 1000 tonnes of cash – literally truckloads.
61
I seem to remember the Iranians asking for about 3 billion is US cash notes
Back in Obama’s time
When that treaty was signed.
Very heavy plane loads of cash to Teheran !
40
Your comment made me recalculate. USD1tr is 10E12. At 1g per note that is 1Mt. So a USD1bn would be 3 or 4 big plane loads. USD1tr would 3 or 4 large bulk carriers. If the denomination was in USD100 notes then only a small freighter.
50
I keep thinking that with China selling so much to the United States they must be highly dependent on the U.S. market. The seller needs the buyer every bit as much as the buyer needs the seller. Like it or not we’re in a symbiotic relationship with china. I think that realization on the part of China’s leadership is the reason they have been willing to talk with Trump and make the concessions they have so far. But make no mistake, China still has the stronger hand.
Would China go to all out war with the United States? I don’t think so, even in spite of their newfound military might. We still have those boomers cruising deep in the Pacific Ocean and no matter what, they would lose key cities and facilities. and they know it.
Clearly China wants its place in the world alongside the rest of us. They went about it the wrong way and we need to mitigate the harm that has done. Waking up some foolish politicians would help.
I’m hard put to see it any other way, China needs us as much as we need them. Nothing is wrong with that kind of relationship.
41
I’m willing to compete honestly with any other nation on Earth. But no other way than honestly.
60
America has friends all over the world – in spite of what they say about her sometimes. China only has a few tin-pot dictatorships who begrudgingly pay lip service to them.
30
And we have sent megatons of money to those friends and they end up dependent on that money, or more accurately, the top dog ends up with the money and loves us while the people suffer. I would like to know exactly how our foreign aid money ends up.
We put Marcos into the Phillippines and then propped him up (read, sent money) because he was a dud as a leader. Apparently what we sent bought Imelda a closet full of shoes. All wasted money just to have a non communist Phillippines.
A friend you bought is no fried at all.
20
The usual way to frag this nuisance is to get a domestic judgement for damages, attach the sovereign debt as escrow
when the damages aren’t paid, and use same as leverage, or simply withold. Most recently done to discipline Iran until
Obama sold US out and sent them a few pallets of unmarked bills.
There is nothing China makes, mines, or refines that he rest of the world can’t provide for itself elsewhere if the
need to do so is there; China can, in turn, probably provide itself a large enough internal consumer market to grow
without the world as a customer. The CCP, however, probably isn’t well suited to running a free domestic economy.
China needs participation in the world economy to grow at a high rate without a full domestic consumer market. The world
can do without a participant like the Chinese. Under these circumstances, we divide into something like “allied” and “axis”
powers. Anyone seen this movie?
40
Roy,
Unfortunately Australia is THE meat in this sandwich.
If iron ore and coal from Australia do not go to China, our standard of living will very rapidly be right down there with Venezuela.
21
What per se is wrong with selling to China? What do you buy from China? As I said, nothing is wrong with an honest 2 way relationship.
21
Roy,
The danger for us is that China can source iron ore and coal elsewhere.
Not as good as Aussie raw materials, but good enough to generate electricity and make steel.
21
True but every seller as competitors. Surely a people descended from prisoners, who made a a great nation out of wilderness can figure out what to do about a competitor. Life is not guaranteed, even to a nation that has Waltzing Matilda as its preferred national anthem and Slim Dusty to sing it. Sorry but I love Slim singing it and Slim Dusty is a good example of what determination can do for you.
Aussies are no less capable than anyone else.
30
The Donald to WHO/UN/WAO/IPCC :
“Youre fired!”
110
SoCmo to the ABC:
“Your’e fired!”
Well, not exactly fired but certainly defunded as in the case the WHO.
110
2 huge sinks of govt money on useless projects:
* The Aussie Bolshevik Collective propaganda machine
* Climate Change witchdoctoring
160
‘Aussie Bolshevik Collective’
Cute.
80
Yet PM Morrison has not bugged as yet on either of those two huge sinks. I’ll give him a little while for him to show his true colours. So far it’s muddy. However, I don’t think he as yet realises the seriousness of the situation in economic terms. Companies are foreclosing by the thousands never to come back. The unemployment rate will be much higher than most think. We need to start new infrastructure projects and industries right away, not wait until the dust settles with the pandemic. Restrictions must be relaxed in a controlled fashion immediately in the hope of stalling the collapse of the economy before it’s too late. We need masks and hand sanitisers to be freely available. Yet they are still almost impossible to purchase. What gives? The economy and the society can’t remain in a comma any longer. The “patient” is dying rapidly.
40
You can get masks very easily. You can get plane loads of masks flown down from China. The problem is the prohibitive wholesale FOB price at the point of shipment, plus the air freight price, and then the exorbitant price at the local point of sale. There is also the phenomenon of shrinkage to contend with, somewhere in this scenario.
But you can get them. What price are you willing to accept for your first-born?
60
I have masks. I was talking about the general public. We need them made locally and handed to people for free if we are really serious about dealing with the pandemic.
50
Cut the funding in half and watch the infighting to determine who stays.
True colours will be shown and lessons learned.
Then, after two years, privatise it.
70
One can only hope.
The ABC playing the racism card when the PM restricted China travel provides no better example of how against the public interest this publicly funded menace is.
They are also handing out very bad health advice to the public, almost daily.
I have been collecting examples that are debunked by published, reviewed papers…
80
ABC was not alone in playing the “racist” card.
20
Kalm Keith, April 20, 2020 at 6:25 am: ‘If there’s a positive aspect to this current tragedy it is that the actions of world leaders have finally been opened up to scrutiny.’
Mal, April 20, 2020 at 6:42 am: ‘It’s been totally aided and abetted by the media’
With new media, a fascinating experiment is being run. But how things work out in the long run is moot. November 2020 will give s some indication.
—————-
Tonyb, April 20, 2020 at 6:57 am: ‘I hope boris now rejects Hawaii as a partner in 5g’
It seems views are hardening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ6MJShdI4Q
Boris To REJECT Huawei 5G
https://nypost.com/2020/04/17/uk-moves-to-drop-huawei-as-5g-vendor-citing-china-coronavirus-transparency/
UK moves to drop Huawei as 5G vendor, citing China coronavirus transparency
By Steven NelsonApril 17, 2020 | 3:45pm
80
I have often thought that boris hangs on my every word…
160
I watched one Congressional hearings ( I Think Sen Blumenthal was involved ) the Telcos directly admit there was no safety testing of 5G performed before roll out.
Stopping 5G completely until proper safety test are done is critical. The problem is that the powers that be need it for China-style panopticon surveillance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0rQqLYrLCM
81
Whether it’s Huawei or some other company is irrelevant. We either must prevent such a network from being a tool for mass coercion or control, or we must resist it – opt out without penalty – and be prepared to live in a slightly lower tech state.
Further it should be considered a utility and should be in the control of the Australian taxpayers not a private company that’s more vulnerable to illegitimate use for private gain.
00
“Imagine the anger if the virus turns out to be lab escapee, or something worse?”
Like a custom built chimera with bits of H I V spliced in? I wondered why that Indian report was disappeared so quickly.
If it turns out to be a designer bug, there will be a money trail.
Follow the money…..especially if someone has funded specific development/gain-of-function work on this thing….
140
“Imagine the anger if the virus turns out to be lab escapee, or something worse? ”
No , imagine the anger WHEN the virus turns out to be a lab escapee ,or something worse .
111
Are you kidding?
The western public has given up anger for such outrages such as these. Unless such anger is part of a narrative the oligarchs wish to harness for other nefarious plans where public opinion is necessary.
More people need to wake up.
00
These are a words from an Activist Post article posted a few days ago. Make of it what you will . . . . . it’s a most confusing whatever it is we’re living in at the moment!
“It has also emerged that Wuhan’s Virology Institute was funded for 3.7 million by the NIH (National Institutes of Health) headed by none other than Anthony Fauci. Results of the research were published in November 2017 under the headline: “Discovery of a rich gene pool of bat SARS-related coronaviruses provides new insights into the origin of SARS coronavirus.”
80
It may be another “We don’t do rendition( torture ) , so we ship people off to countries who do” moment
Is it possible we have a dangerous bit of science carried out, at arms length, on behalf of people who knew exactly what was at stake?
30
And the other side of the coin — Dr. Birx has 2 daughters who work for Gates. Also a husband who was a former Gates employee. Gates Foundation, Clinton Foundation, various Soros funded NGOs deeply involved with UN programs pushing mandatory vax programs (big pharma’s wet dream) for the whole world.
This comment probably wasted time. Doubt many visitors look this many posts back very often.
00
It’s all Kabuki theatre.
You going to blame some offshore Chinese company for profitieering by selling shoddy merchandise? Yeah sure. And where have you been, the past 75 years?
The pandemic has hardly gotten going.
Governments have yet to be held accountable for being so unprepared and inept at dealing with the crisis in progress
The world has changed and it isn’t going back to even more ‘globalism’
52
A little history is in order.
When I was a kid in the 70’s, Japanese toys started to hit the shelves. Made in Japan was always junk and was ridiculed.
But the Japanese companies got rich and started doing the design only, moving the manufacture to Taiwan. So then Made in Taiwan became the new junk brand.
Taiwan got rich; so now it’s Made in China is the new junk brand.
So; your 75 years is not real. China, being a communist country wasn’t allowed to engage in the world economy until the late 70’s at the very earliest.
Here is a documentary by Jean Michel Jarre, for his album Made in China. Jean was one of the first Westerners allowed into China to tour. There is a lot of interesting history even in this musical documentary. (1981).
https://youtu.be/V4HHx8SAE8E
30
Greg, Japanese stuff did start to hit the shelves, but it was long before 1970.
Japanese toys and stuff came in post WW11 and was junk.
What they did though was get to work to fix the problems.
I think that by 1970 they had a very good reputation for manufacturing good quality items.
German Mercedes were made in a plant in Africa. Resting on their laurels the inaugural production run was a horrific mistake from which that label will never recover.
KK
70
you are right KK his timeline was out. Japan leveraged the fact that they have an excellent engineering heritage and improved manufactured quality rapidly post-war recovery- seldom junk. And they were creating engineering that other nations wanted -take the railway rolling stock and construction equipment for instance. And those 1970s optical and audio equipment were exceptional.
31
The Japanese embraced quality control and the junk was transformed.
20
I was born in 66, so my memory doesn’t go back further than that.
What I do remember is my parents went on a cruise on the Fair Star, it was one of the first cruise ships allowed to enter Japan. This was 1977. They brought back some transformer toys that were pretty amazing. I still have a ruler with pictures from their trip in my collection. The Bullet train was beyond sci-fi at the time.
I forgot about Korea, and my memory isn’t sufficient to fit Made in Korea into the timeline. I was only going from memory according to how I saw it unfold.
10
00
So; you think my eye-witness history lesson was wrong?
It missed Korea, but what is your point?
00
You bypassed South Korea. Remember Alan Bond and “say hi to Hyundai” – not quite right.
My uncle was a plumber post WW II. He showed up one Christmas at my grandfathers annual gathering in the 1960s with a Datsun crew cab ute. I thought how clever is that – kids in the back row had a door? At that time my dad had a Ford Customline ute with a canopy – mum, dad and eldest sister in front and rest of kids in the back on old mattresses and were captive until the tail gate was opened from outside.
Japan has retained some high end manufacturing.
Japan has the highest net financial position per head of population of the G20 countries with net overseas holdings of USD3tr. So a lot of people around the globe are working to keep Japan housed and fed in their old age.
China’s net position per head of population is a quarter Japan but in absolute terms is the highest of all countries at USD12tr. This gives some indication of China’s propensity to buy up big around the globe so those working in other countries can keep China housed and fed in their old age.
Interestingly, Taiwan’s net position per head is 3 times higher than Japan and second only to Hong Kong. I remember some of my toys were made in Hong Kong.
60
Japanese access to western markets was a result of being rebuilt after WWII.
The real treason of giving western technology and capacity to “the third world” didn’t start until the Lima Declaration in 1975. That was the beginning of the wholesale transfer of which China was the main beneficiary.
30
A prediction…as the cover is blown off this thing, especially the possible designer bug aspect, the proof will be a rapid hysteria de-escalation/nothing-to-see-here-move-along by the powers that be, while still thundering empty gloom and doom threats……and trying to save face through enforcing “social distancing”.
While this one was bad, IMHO its a trial run, to see how people would react.
We’ve been played, in many ways, and people need to be held accountable.
The WHO are an easy ( by design ) sacrificial lamb to be disposed of where no-one goes to jail, but its those who prop it up from local authorities who need to taken to task, which means in many countries, local representatives…….
112
I agree there’s a lot of blame to go around:
* The modelling was very close to useless, and possibly outright misleading.
* Many key decisions were based off the Chinese data, even long after that data was known to be dodgy. For example, are schools a significant vector of transmission between families? Chinese data says very few children get sick, so the Australian conclusion was that children would not pass the virus around.
* No strategic stores of medical equipment … we got caught sans pants. Embarrassing for a first world nation.
* Individual Australians for the most part did not prepare in any way, then at the last possible minute ran out to buy everything.
* Constant early advice said this was no big deal, everyone don’t worry about it. Would have been better to encourage people to at least worry a bit back in January so they could get ready.
* Shifting advice over the effectiveness of masks, plus loss of trust when people are given conflicting information like “You can’t wear a mask, masks don’t help, but hey the medical staff desperately need masks.”
* Officious and outright nasty police behaviour, without any useful benefits in terms of infection risk, leading to deeper loss of trust.
* Inconsistent story about the airbourne mode of infection … it must have already been happening on the Diamond Princess, but the “official story” was that washing hands should be sufficient.
* Social distancing is a whole new experimental program, never implemented before, never proven but for some reason it was decided this was the absolute answer to the problem. Based on what?!?
* Even has Australian hospitals are almost empty right now, we still make decisions based on models which say our hospitals are full. Back to the classic problem of who are you going to believe, my model or your lying eyes?
* Never considered with a clear head the trade off between loss of life for the elderly and loss of life for others (young people under house arrest, small business losing everything, depression, suicide).
* Entered this “full lockdown” without FIRST planning an exit strategy. Sound familiar? Just like the War in Afghanistan, Iraq, and all the other forever wars. Now we sit without exit strategy and scratch ourselves wondering what to do. You would think we can only fall for this so many times, huh?
190
Well Tel, Jo here did here best to warn Australians and any else reading across the planet.
That happened in early February.
That’s how I knew. And Jo’s ‘forecasts’ were confirmed on Chiefio.
So I was prepared.
And as Jo suggested we were then ahead of the curve.
But if folks will not see, then they face the consequences of their own living with eyes wide shut.
82
Some thoughts ( and these are not criticisms of your post )
“* Officious and outright nasty police behaviour, without any useful benefits in terms of infection risk, leading to deeper loss of trust.”
Yes, I recall having a conversation with a family member who is a cop, saying years ago that in years to come ( knowing something like this would come ) that they would likely have to do something they deeply disagreed with. I suspect the cops who enjoy headkicking are likely only a few percent in the police force, the rest are decent human beings. However, the police in years to come will have to decide whether they follow possibly unfair and nasty orders of their masters, or be decent humans. It will mean standing against evil, at great cost, but will be the decent thing to do.
“* Social distancing is a whole new experimental program, never implemented before, never proven but for some reason it was decided this was the absolute answer to the problem. Based on what?!?”
The answer is that its a pure social control strategy, and has sod all to do with controlling actual disease, especially if viruses can travel great distances through air. It appears the plan all along was to make accepting the Chinese-style panopticon surveillance app that violates all layers of privacy acceptible, as a “necessary tradeoff”. Complete nonsense. Its like shooting fish in a barrel.
We need to tell them to lift the restrictions, and to tell them to politely take a walk regards a highly intrusive un-necessary app.
111
Scapegoat? Or are they realising their game of satisfying citizens with apparently cheap
goods to keep them quiet, without revealing the qid pro quo that is apparent to anyone that thought about it. Governments are caught with their chickens coming home to roost.
Hurrah for that! People should now be able to both criticise the bad and applaud the good of China for what it does without officialdom feeling it has to walk on hot coals to do so. It would be interesting to have Bob Carr and Dastyari interviewed over the current crisis.
40
Amazing how obsessive-compulsive we’ve become. Now, the quirky obcom behaviours of Howard Hughes and Monk don’t seem so crazy.
51
I’m still not peeing in milk bottles and storing urine.
41
Sack Tedros? This bloke is just a pawn in China’s game. When Tedros goes another puppet will be installed. It’s The UN that needs reforming. China allowed it’s citizens to rob Australian supermarkets of much needed anti virus equipment and fly it to Hong Kong while our Customs boys looked on so the Italian scam doesn’t surprise me. What about all the dud equipment that China has shipped around the world.
150
We need to de-fund the whole UN.
I think this proves how useless it is.
170
Here is a forecast based on good info :
Bangladesh will in a week or so
Become a major disaster zone of Wuhan COVID disease.
Why do I write this ?
Well some local Islamic cleric died a couple of days ago.
So all the local believers were gathered in huge crowds
To say farewell.
It only takes just a couple of of asymptomatic carriers in the crowd
And everyone is on the road to disease & death.
Watch out for the urgent requests for help in a week or so’s time.
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-100000-people-ignore-lockdown-to-attend-bangladesh-funeral/news-story/5abae8313ae034db7eda712115647f79
110
As Bill In Oz mentions here, I dread the coming time when this Wuhan Virus takes control in these Developing Countries. Up to now, it’s been the First World, the already Developed Countries where the virus has taken hold, because (in the main) those Countries are the major terminals of air travel, so it got loose in them first. In the next few weeks, watch it take off in SE Asia and Africa and to a lesser degree in South America, and what I dread there is that we in the Developed World will be so concentrating on our own Countries that there will be very little to assist in these Developing Countries we refer to as the Third World.
As a result, there will be anarchy in those Countries, and it’s probably a perspicacious thing that all those Australians in those Countries have come back home.
Tony.
110
G’day Bill. It sounds like there’s a lot of people in Bangladesh who will be re-united with their late cleric in the next couple of weeks…
40
Umm, Off Topic I know, but you have to wonder during these times, has anyone heard even the slightest peep out of the Australian Greens Party since, well, when de Natale quit on February 2.
Since then, MIA, all of them.
Tony.
190
Isn’t wonderful Tony
To see how the mighty have been reduced
To such silent irrelevance.
130
Tony saving the world from CAGW in 10 , 20 – or a hundred years seems to be overwhelmed by a real emergency that is taking lives around the world now .
60
Let’s hope it stays that way. Notice too PM Morrison has also stopped ranting on about how good we are in reaching or beating our emission reduction targets. I sincerely hope he never mentions it ever again. If he does then he must be replaced, ironically for similar reasons Turnbull was replaced. We dare not have a continuation of the CAGW nonsense in any of its forms. Not even a hint of it. Any policy focused on reducing our emissions must be flushed down the toilet once and for all.
160
Nev Power is running the reconstruction phase and he made some sensible comments about energy and his approach to doing this on Sky News, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1ZLY6F3ijY
I personally to these comments as hope that there will be some revisionism on the green tape and idiocy in particular on energy that has destroyed our competitiveness.
70
He did say “low emission power”; I took it he is talking of HELE.
30
Why low emissions? What’s wrong with normal emissions of CO2? The number of power stations we would need would make no difference to the atmosphere, especially when one considers how many coal fired power stations are being built by Japan, China, India, etc..
50
Yes, Adam Bandt popped up on Twitter the other day to proclaim his disgust in the unfairly targeted WHO and attacks on the CCP by more sensible folk. This was favourably parroted by the ABC on cue, being blinded by intense organisational stupidity and partisan zeal.
As per pretty much anything that emanates from that morons mouth, it received the repartee it deserved (other than from the ABC).
90
Gee-Aye informs they haven’t put their views aside.
51
I did what? When?
00
I’m not sure what ‘happened’ in Guayaquil in Ecuador.
But something like the Bangladesh event must have happened there about 2 weeks ago.
A religious festival most probably; maybe Palm Sunday & Good Friday.
Attended by some travellers who returned from infected Spain with minor symptoms.
They are big events in this very Spanish type Catholic country with a primitive health care system.
Anyway now folks are dying at a huge rate.
!4,000 have died in this one city so far in April
Where 2000 is the norm for all of April..
The bodies are mounting up for lack of coffins
So cardboard ones are now being used.
Of course the British Bolshevic Collective has a different take on this.
But their report serves to warn us anyway
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52324218
50
With capitalism, most manufacturing, including PPE was moved to China.
So the donation from Italy was more than likely Chinese made.
Also the supplies from China, was probably freshly manufactured by the same plant that originally supplied Italy
214
Ah Peter Fitzroy, all the different icons you now use. So miffed at being in Moderation for every Comment, you have now resorted to logging in differently each time to try and find a way around it.
Give up.
Tony.
91
I have upwards of 12! (that is 12 factorial) valid email addresses, and you probably have a similar number.
113
No Peter Fitzroy et al, being inherently an honest person with nothing to hide, I have only the need for one email address.
A number of years back now, my original email address was ‘spoofed’ (oddly, by Chinese operators in fact) resulting from one of the few occasions I visited the facebook site. The only way I could continue was to change my email address, and in 25 years now, this is only the second email address I have used.
Tony.
121
I’ve had the same email address (12!) when I signed in with Gmail for 15+ years – I’m not sure what you do not understand, but if you use a gmail address you should do some investigation.
18
There’s nothing TO understand, so there’s nothing to investigate. I do not now, nor have I ever used gmail in the 25 years I have been using the Internet.
As I said, I’m honest and I have nothing to hide.
Tony.
81
Tony,
You are involved in a debate with a statue.
61
I’m not really sure how you can rearrange the letters in your name to get all the email addesses as would be required (gmail would need a new account for Ptrefeitzroy or whatever). If you meant upper and lower case that would be 12^2=144 and would not be recognised as a separate email address so =1
In any case 12! is incorrect owing to the duplicate letters.
I think you do need to explain for us dummies.
61
Excellent statistical sleuthing.
🙂
30
How do I mutate and change shape? A Phd in evol boil should be able to figure it out!
02
If I could be bothered undoing my gravitar and then fiddling about with the autogenerated things then I’m sure I will be able to reproduce what you are doing. It still doesn’t explain 12! !
20
So your mind is now fractured into 12 little piece.
And none of them can work together to form anything remotely rational.
And you obviously can’t remember which email address, of your many, you are actually using.
Stick to one email address, if you are capable of remembering it from minute to minute.
30
I doubt the Italians are that stupid that they would not have noticed different serial #’s etc when they received the PPE back from China. Plus it still doesn’t excuse them charging for returning (or replacing in the off chance you are correct) something that was donated freely
60
serial number on a face mask?
18
All quality standards require a method of batch monitoring. If the mask are certified to a standard then packaging at least will be coded (usually bar code) for quality tracking. An example:
https://www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/about-bsi/media-centre/press-releases/2020/february/warning-fake-certificate-for-medical-face-masks/
50
A bar code will give you the details of the model/version, not the batch or manufactured date. It is entirely possible that a consumable item such as a face mask, was supplied in accordance with the deal. For one thing, those masks sent to china, why weren’t they used as the post indicates. It does not seem logical that a bunch of masks sent to a country which needed them were not distributed and used immediately.
14
The bar codes can give ALL the details needed to track for quality control such as lot and batch number:
https://www.gs1.org/docs/idkeys/GS1_GTIN_Executive_Summary.pdf
My computer has bar codes for its model and the full serial number – been that way for a long time with computers. Bar codes just make it easier for scanners to interpret alphanumerics.
On the other point:
No doubt they over purchased. China was in panic mode for a couple of weeks in January if you remember. There is a tendency to overshoot supply when it is available and the apparent need great. Consider the man in Adelaide trying to return his $10,000 worth of toilet paper. People do strange things in a panic.
Maybe China planned to make an absolute killing on the resupply of medical masks once they had spread the virus globally and bought up all the masks. Maybe they hoped that lack of masks globally would result in faster spread of their virus and many more deaths.
30
The supplies from Italy were donated, Rick. They were not over purchased as you assert. What I’m saying is this
1. Italy buy faces masks from China
2. Italy stores those face masks for a reserve
3. Italy donates some of those masks to China.
4 China uses the masks
5. China sells masks to Italy
6 Those masks came from the same factory, but at different times.
That chain of events is equally plausible and therefore the story needs more background.
Of course, I’m sceptical, particularly about stories like these, which play to ingrained prejudice, you don’t have to be.
08
What you asked:
I believe I clearly answered your question. For sure there would be sufficient data oncertified medical equipment to track to supplier, lot number and batch number for quality reasons.
30
As I said, I’m a sceptic
09
I was bored.
A generic 6-pack @ $2.70 per 6-pack at Coles = 3,703 (6-packs) … or 22,222 bog rolls. 😉
If used at a rate of two rolls per week, that is enough bog roll for 214 years! 😛
70
Here is some observational information.
I have here 4 distinct brands and types of disposable masks. 3 are boxed with lot numbers. One is bagged – basic paper surgical masks- which have no numbers.
One of the boxed items is a higher grade (ie reputable and purchased pre covid) N95 with the numbers on the mask. Google “N95” and look at images for similar with visible numbering. The other 2 boxed items have no markings on the masks.
51
Talk of putting the CCP back in its box is great, and I hope talk translates into meaningful action, but we shouldn’t forget there will be consequences. The CCP will not take a huge hit on their economic might lying down. The issue that exercises my mind the most is wondering what the CCP will do while it tries to hang onto power.
If history and human nature are any guide, we should expect the CCP to engage in a very aggressive anti-West propaganda campaign as public unrest in China grows. This might extend as far as to commence military action (a war would be great for bringing out nationalistic fervour and tapping into old resentment of the West). I’m guessing they would move against Taiwan initially.
How far such a conflict might spread is hard to gauge and how far the West would be prepared to go in response is another unknown, but of critical importance to Australia. I’m no military student, but I could see China turning its eyes toward Australia early in such a conflict, to neutralise a potential enemy, prevent America and NATO from using Australian ports and air bases, and to capture strategically-important natural resources. If America didn’t come to our aid, we’d be a pushover.
80
Taiwan is guaranteed by a defence treaty with the USA.
But I doubt that the Taiwanese are relying on that old agreement from the 1970’s.
They maintain strong military forces
And I suggest like Israel
Have developed their own ‘weapons of mass destruction’
Just in case..
And no doubt the CCP leadership will take this into account in all they do.
20
Based on info in the public domain, China’s military dwarfs that of Taiwan in every respect. Of course, in a wider conflict, China’s assets would have to be deployed much more widely than Taiwan’s, which would even things up to some extent, but in the first days/weeks of an attack, Taiwan could be overrun.
So much depends on how quickly, and to what extent, Taiwan’s allies get involved.
As to Taiwan’s possession of WMD, is that pure speculation on your part, or is there some evidence? Frankly, I think it unlikely, but if I was in Taiwan’s shoes, I’d be pretty motivated to develop some extraordinary capability. Whether they would actually deploy a chemical/biological/nuclear weapon is another question.
Personally, I suspect Taiwan would resist for a brief period only, then capitulate to minimise losses. If the Chinese military moved quickly enough (especially if America was distracted elsewhere, perhaps by Russia or another pandemic), they could ‘fortify’ Taiwan and make it very difficult and costly to liberate.
21
Taiwan has taken the Israeli option
Do what works to preserve themselves.
While denying everything.
And suppressing all media discussion in Taiwan.
They have lived next to this neighbour since 1949
And understand it very well.
I suspect that the CCP also knows all this.
But the potential loss of face makes it unpalatable to admit anything.
20
On the contrary, the Taiwanese are best served via resisting ferociously, and frustrating and defeating the Chinese, to slow them and blunt them, then Japan goes and forward bases US forces go to town on them. All the Taiwanese have to do to win this is sink PLAN ships (entirely doable), or drive them away (doable), and shoot down para-drop aircraft (entirely doable), and hold on through the heavy bombardment (doable). The US and Japan forward forces will be strongly reinforced within a week and will reduce the PLA artillery hitting power within days, and sink the PLAN fleet, then turn it around via pounding China itself hard, instead. Taiwan declares independence and the US Marines setup theater-range cruise and hyper-sonic missile bases there which can hit every part of China. The risk of defeat is much greater for China.
70
Japan and even S Korea would be a serious headache for China even before US forces are accounted for. The Chinese Navy and Air Force would be very degraded by the time South East Asia and Australia got evolved. Plus South East Asia has become quite a heavily armed part of the world these days and has bought lots of modern medium and longer range anti-ship missile systems in the past 5 years. China may be big but it’s not that big when missiles start flying. We’re lucky to be at a more extended range from China, a radius that’s hard to get to plus do much damage.
70
I was concerned right at the start of this when it was revealed that while Australians were panicking for toilet paper, pasta, gloves, hand sanitizer and masks, that various Chinese companies had already shipped 80 tons of PPE to China. Who did that? Why? What did these companies know about the scale of the disaster in China that we didn’t know? This was just one sign that the Chinese government and WHO were saying one thing and doing another. The whole world was kept in the dark for months about the severity of this outbreak and you have to ask why? Were they going to let it rip through the world and then act blameless? Or blame the Americans? Or deny responsibility? Or all of these.
The thing which is absolutely certain is that the President of WHO knew his statements were completely wrong and utterly misleading. Tedros Adhanom should be arraigned on criminal charges in Den Hague, not praised by the usual suspects in Hollywood who are raising millions for him. Melissa Gates has already given $US150 million.
Once again Donald Trump is correct. What happened was a criminal act costing hundreds of thousands, potentially millions of lives. The pandemic should have been called in December, as it was in 2003 with SARS when WHO took on the Chinese government, under a different president. Not an African Phd in Community Medicine from the University of Nottingham who clearly was appointed by the Chinese government. And any criticism of his performance is called racism.
170
The latest Medcram video questions the Santa Clara high infection rate theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO4xgcIaPeA
Apart from the sampling issues, the main take away is that the infection count could be majority false positives. As such we have a very poor understanding, as yet, regarding the real level of infection.
It is important to understand the statistics of false positives and false negatives. If a test gives 5% false positives and you test 100 people, expect to get 5 positives which don’t have (or haven’t had in the case of antibody tests) the disease. When we are talking about relatively low infection proportions of the population, the false positive issue becomes a major factor. To illustrate, a 5% false positive rate when you have a result of 50% positives may be a 10% error, whereas a 10% infection count might be a 50% error.
There is also the problem of false negatives. Reverse the above arguments, and the disease infection proportions can be much higher than measured. So yeah, a lot of unknowns… some known, some unknown. Also, it is important to know that doctors are often poor at stats, and have a limited grasp of the implications of false positives/negatives. #NotAllDoctors
40
A false positive does little harm. In most testing, positives are very rare anyway. Australia has used over 500,000 tests and we have 6,500 people with the virus. That’s 1%.
The real worry is a false negative. A single escaped carrier especially an unsymptomatic carrier released into the community would be a disaster except during strict lockdown. So until we have no reports of infection for a few weeks, we have to keep the isolation going.
63
What bothers me is the notion that we can test people at the airport, and if they pass a test we let them into Australia. That is a very bad idea. Such testing must be done during mandatory quarantine, for as long as needed.
If we have effective antivirals which greatly lower the severity of disease and make recovery fast so it become less severe or lethal we won’t need quarantine periods any more.
I’m fairly confident we’ll have that effective antiviral option within 6 months. And in that six months our population works on diet, health, fitness and immune system function. We could also look at making people between 16 and 50 immune, thereby dramatically limiting the transmission options for the virus within the community, and also make it much easier to isolate and suppress.
50
WXCycles,
We must Test all INBOUND travellers
At the departure gate
Before they get on the planes.
It is NOT Australia’s responsibility
To cure foreigners with this disease.
Or pay for their quarantine.
The government’s responsibility is
To keep Australia safe for Australians.
Simple !
50
I agree the principle Bill, except even with customs now a boat or jet does not get searched for contraband when it leaves a country, it only gets searched at an approved customs entry point to the arrival country.
And can we trust testing being done at a departure point in the ME, Africa or China? We know how corrupt many countries are, money talks. And will they be that concerned about making sure we don’t import the virus? No.
So we can’t trust our economy to that sort of arrangement. Testing that we can trust will have to be done during a mandatory quarantine period within Australia, regardless, IMO, as that is the only way to be sure we’re not going to get reinfected.
10
No, it’s not, that’s user pays, for the duration.
20
SARS and MERS have not vanished. Asian flu. Swine Flu. So many could turn into a pandemic tomorrow. We have dodged many bullets. This is the first time WHO have acted to propagate a Chinese made virus to the rest of the world. We used to get plenty of warning. This time we were deceived, even after Taiwan’s report to WHO in December.
This is just the start of the European Flu season. We expect to lose another 2,000 people to the latest Corona virus mutations out of the Northern winter and the area where 60% of humans live. We don’t want it either.
So we need testing. Even before people leave for Australia. Records. This used to be the way. You would not let anyone into your country who was not guaranteed immune. I still have my yellow innoculations book and keep it up to date.
I believe we should put just as much effort into protecting Australians as we do into protecting horses, dogs, pigs, apples and grapes.
20
I agree on the principle TdeF, except but we don’t live in that world of cooperative compliance and mutual trust now. Corruption as a means of life is rife in many countries, and I would not trust them to guard our vital interests for 1 second at a departure point. Their heart is not going to be in it. But our will be at the arrivals.
At best we can insist on testing people before they board an Australian airliner, and ban other airlines from Australia for the time being, as we can’t control who gets on it, or what goes on within that cabin during transit to spread a virus.
We need full control of the passengers and jets which land in Australia from the departure point forward. And can we even trust Qantas to do the right things? Will they use PPE and approved policies at all times? We need to control the actions and procedures on the jets. I’d suggest we need Federal airways inspectors on all foreign inbound flights to ensure rules are being followed. Big fines if airlines don’t follow the rules, even grounding of services for repeat breaches. But any way you look at it,this will be expensive until we have effective cheap antivirals.
Which is a huge incentive for countries to get cracking on antivirals.
20
C19 is a hybrid lab coronavirus developed to try and understand SARS-like diseases. It was leaked into the general population, unknowingly and probably carelessly, by an asymptomatic lab worker, unaware that they had been infected. I do not mean that the RNA segments were created from scratch, but rather this was gene-spliced.
Here is an antecedent:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985
I’m not prescient here, nor of course do I have detailed virology knowledge. The basic reason I thought C19 was hybrided in a lab was the combination of incredible infectiousness and highly aggressive lethal human cell-busting S-protein spikes. One or the other characteristic I could accept as a mutation from the wild as part of evolutionary processes, but the combination of both is way over the odds.
SARS-1 was considered dangerous in the early 2000’s. So research such as this has been going on for over 15 years (and yes, French and US expertise and money was supplied to push it forward).
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From WUWT
Joel O’Bryan
April 19, 2020 at 4:08 pm
One thing that I realize few people outside of virology research understand how these vbiruses are grown in lab for research.
– Take a sample collected from bat guano or from captured bat’s blood.
– Spin it down in a preservation fluid in a centrifuge to push all the heavy junk to the bottom of micro tube.
– Use a pipet to pull of the top layer of fluid and freeze it down for later study.
– Do this dozens, if not hundreds of time with field collected samples.
– Grown up in a flask a susceptible cell culture that highly expresses the ACE2 receptor on its plasma membrane (either via a primary cell culture or a transduced cell line with the ACE2 gene inserted via a plasmid or other simple biotech). This makes the individual cells shighly usceptible to corna virus that uses that receptor. In a cell culture there is no extracellular host systemic immune response to prevent/inhibit those first infected cells from releasing the virus in a chain reaction to more cells to ultimately infect all the cells in a culture flask.
– The virus culture supernatent ( the fluid part) is after about 4-5 days post-infection extremely concentrated with virus as almost all the cells in cell culture have been compromised by releasing virus (virologists call the obvious cell death, CytoPathic Effect (CPE)on cell culture monolayer in the clear plastic growth flask) and it is usually quite visible even without a microscope on the cell culture layer in the flask.
Once the supernatent has been collected, the virus titer may be on the order o 10^6 to 10^8 infectious viral particle/mL. This is highly concentrated. One very common technique is to then spin this viral culture supernatent in a special solution in a fast centrifuge to concentrate the virus even further, to something like 10^11 or 10^12 infectious virions per mL.
The average person cannot grasp how concentrated that is. That concentrated virus collection is then has more infectious virion particles in just 1 milliliter of fluid than there are stars in the Milky Way. And the tube likely contains about 30-100 mL of fluid.
With concentration levels like that with infectious viral isolates, there can easily be virus EVERYWHERE in the work area. On a pen used to take notes. On a pads of paper that might be taken out of the facility. On a computer that gets replaced from a BSL-4 and not adequately decontaminated. This virus is so concentrated it gets everywhere on everything.
And as Cornoa Virus is +strand RNA virus even the RNA itself is so infectious if it can get in a cell from a cut or a wound… or someone with chronic lung cell destruction from smoking. It is so easy to get infected in these settings with these highly contagious RNA viruses where they are grown and concentrated to extremely high titer. And then given the COVID-19 asymptomatic-infectious early phase, or asymptomatic relapse to RNA+ status altogether it is easy to see how this virus would escape from a facility like the Wuhan Virology Research Center.
40
I’ve already said that the CCP Chinese government
Is not evil for stuffing up and releasing this Wuhan virus.
But to attempt to destroy all the evidence of it’s stuff up,
And then attempt to deceive other nations
About how infectious and how dangerous it is.
Are both Evil.
From now on we must “sup with China with a very long spoon”
Indeed.
40
who’s who in wild west
https://balance10.blogspot.com/2020/04/who-chief-tedros-adhanom-factsheet.html
20
Interesting background on Tedros & his mates in Ethiopia.
20
Another African military dictatorship which started as a Liberation front terrorist group and in power for 29 years. You have to ask who was Liberated? To paint Tedros as a man qualified to lead the World Health Organization is a travesty. He will just bluff it out with the support of his sponsors in the UN. I never understood how the IPCC could be led by railway engineer Pachauri either. Or anthropologist Christiana Figureres, daughter of the First President of Costa Rica and whose brother was twice President.
It seems in the UN, politics is everything and the Chinese government did not want anyone declaring a pandemic too early. As for the story that it was not infectious from person to person, Tedros knew absolutely that wasn’t true when he announced it. Are there going to be no repercussions?
70
And it is extremely worrying that the UN/WHO and the EU and China agreed on one thing. The borders must be left open because closing them was unnecessary. Why?
90
Because it appears they hate the West so much there were willing do anything to maximise the spread of the virus. I can’t think of any other reason.
50
Revenge for the opium wars …
We may not remember them, but they sure haven’t.
00
Hah! insufficient proof reading!
We may have forgotten them, but they sure haven’t!
00
We have been let down all round. China did worse than just let it out. They covered up. Our own governments were slow to act. The handling of the Ruby Princess is a disgrace. As Jo has pointed out it was a known risk. Just look at the website of the Australian Animal Health Laboratory. “The risk of a pandemic that could affect the lives of millions of people world-wide is very real.
Over the past three decades we have witnessed a rise in the incidence of emerging infectious diseases (EIDs) in humans, with around 70 per cent of these EIDs being zoonotic in nature – that is they can be passed from animals to people. Examples include highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses, coronaviruses such as SARS and MERS, and Hendra virus.
Several factors have contributed to this increased incidence of outbreaks. The recent growth and geographic expansion of human populations and the intensification of agriculture has resulted in a greater risk of EIDs being transmitted to people from wildlife and domesticated animals.
Moreover, increased global travel means there is a greater likelihood that these new infectious agents can rapidly spread among the human population.
Together, these factors have increased the risk of pandemics – it’s not so much a matter of if, but when.”
Note “it’s not so much a matter of if, but when.”
What preparedness was there by our betters, in comparison with the climate change nonsense.
80
China did worse than that. They made sure the world was infected. The job of WHO is to stop pandemics. Under instructions from his bosses Tedros ignored the Taiwan report and also refused to declare a pandemic and told the world that it was not transmissable from human to human. That’s a lot worse than a cover up. It ensured no one did anything. And they told the world not to close borders. Now explain why? The world was deliberately infected as a direct consequence and clearly as intended. That’s not a coverup. That’s a man made pandemic, regardless of whether the virus was accidentally or deliberately released, man made or natural.
120
One of our failings is that we (in general)have very short memories.
Another failing is that we choose not to take stock of history.
Not too many people remember the earthquake in China.
Most Americans have forgotten 9/11.
In a couple of years time we will have forgotten Coronavirus.
In a couple of years time education and the media will be worse than they are currently.
70
Today’s data is strongly affected by the weekend effect slowing of processing and reporting of both cases and deaths. Everyone’s become fatigued in the most infected countries, so there’s little point listing today’s data when it’s so noisy. It won’t get back to relative ‘normal’ until we see Tuesday’s data (Wednesday 10 AM AEST locally).
The effort to slow the disease is showing up well on the log graph of global deaths. The disease is being slowed by community isolation within most countries now.
Global Total Deaths log graph:
https://i.ibb.co/9tP1SMX/Global-total-died-log-19th-April-2020.png
So the community isolation is working well. But I am increasingly suspicious of some countries in Europe trying to hide the true number of people who have died during an active case of COVID-19. But if we presume the graph is showing a general trend the harder part will be holding the spread below 2.5% per day as the active cases are whittled down to less than 10% of now as new dry up due community spreading falling away.
This does not equate to a “fast rise and slow fall”, as WHO’s ‘Tedros’ claimed, for if new cases are pushed lower than recovery rate via strict isolation, the existing cases will evaporate over the course of about 4 weeks (and mostly at the end of that period). It’s a Bell-curve. So it’s not the time to go soft, it’s time to go hard for 4 weeks, and see where we are then. Regaining control of the hospitals to get them back into good shape with restored normal services where countries need to get to. That will remove most of the risk of an unmanageable second-wave developing.
Opening-up can only be sustained if smaller scale isolation is strictly maintained within areas where community spread continued or re-emerges. Or we’ll be right back to large-scale isolation again.
I said ~10 days back that I think the risk of a second-wave will come from G20 countries who are much too eager to reopen economies, without dealing with the community spread from the first wave, and is unlikely to be delayed to the following Winter season. I still think that’s what’s most likely to occur, greed for excess to requirements wins over needs being sufficiently met. The debate going on US govt(s) and MSM gives an impression it’s fine to consider reopening at or near the peak level of virus and new cases, based on economic concerns. And many external governments will then be pressured to do the same things.
So I’m fairly convince that the G-20 countries (including China) will be the biggest risk of creating a second wave, there’s just too much money involved for that not to be so. Big political dollar donors are no doubt applying leverage all across the G20, at this point, and especially in the US. And extremist ‘libertarians’ who seem to think they’re only responsible for themselves, and should not be accountable to anyone else, are doing the same things to accelerate a reduction in restrictions on social mobility and direct connection. And its direct connections which this virus thrives on. Both groups are trying to influence, and both are the strongest in the USA, where not surprisingly the virus got the strongest foothold and built up big numbers fast, and continues to do so.
USA Active Cases graph here has not flattened, and the USA is not past the peak, and it is not through the worst of it. People claiming those things a either lying, or completely ignorant of the data, or running on confirmation-bias. The data is showing the US has worse to come:
US Total Active Cases
https://i.ibb.co/2dG4Bb5/Active-Cases-in-the-USA-19th-April.png
US Total Deaths
https://i.ibb.co/KztC3f5/Total-Deaths-in-the-USA-19th-April-2020-png.png
Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Given US State governments, and Federal government and MSM seem inclined to promote cashed-up and dismissive minorities, what will the majority population do? They’ve responded much better than expected so far, as have majorities in most countries, but will that continue for the next 4 to 6 weeks needed to crush this virus domestically? It seems like they will resume business as usual, at or just before the peak of a US COVID-19 outbreak.
Such decisions should be made on where the data actually is!
You do not buy at the top of the market, and you do not sell at the bottom, you do not re-open at the peak of the infection, that would be insanity, re-opening is at the bottom of the infection’s Bell-curve.
If the US or other G20 countries stuff that up it’s they who will be getting quarantined, by everyone else, into their recoveries. Same if they allow data to become corrupted, unreliable and non-informing via sordid behavior like hiding cases and not listing COVID-19 deaths. And that appears to be a part of the re-opening game and its arguments, downplay both. As then a second wave in that country becomes very likely, or rather, a re-invigoration and extension of the first-wave would occur, for a much longer period of isolation than it otherwise would have been.
But that results in the ‘herd-immunity’ fait-accompli non-policy, which is the desired aim of extremist business and radial libertarian propagandists who wish to say, “See! This was inevitable! We never should have tried this, the virus can’t be beat”. Etc. Except we’ve successfully fought and defeated killer virus many times. And defeated bacteria for 80 years via doing the same things. And a small but growing number of countries have this virus largely beat already.
But the USA isn’t one of those countries, it could not be further away from that, the US is still very much pre the peak, and is by far the worst infected country on earth. The US peak looks to be about 2 weeks off, if things go well, but a recovery will realistically occur in about early June to mid-June.
Which is not to say parts of the US won’t recover much sooner than June, some areas will be ready to open very soon, but based on good data, not on the loudest propaganda voice.
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If Trump goes for the open up option
He will put his re-election at severe risk.
Another wave of infections, disease & deaths
Close to the elections is an unbelievable gift to the Democrats.
They will believe their luck
And will silently cheer every move to open up he makes.
As for Australia,
The USA emerged in late February as a a major source of infections here.
Remember Dr Higgins !
So our borders will have to remain locked to travellers from the USA or anyone flying through there.
Pending the development of a quick test which can detect any infection at the airport before boarding.
A real pity as I have family there..
34
And now even the Guardian has turned on Sweden and it’s let it rip policy….
Politely of course, they don’t want to humiliate their allies completely.
But this is significant..
Expect a major U turn in Sweden soon !
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/anger-in-sweden-as-elderly-pay-price-for-coronavirus-strategy
31
From theGuardian article referenced above
Had assumed that Sweden was careful to report all deaths linked to covid19. Seems not to be so
32
Sweden (10 million people):
14,385 total cases
563 new cases
4.6% spreading daily
10.71% known cases died
450 critical
1540 deaths
Hospitals overwhelmed
Australia (26 million people):
6,612 total cases
26 new cases
1.1% spreading daily
1.07% known cases died
48 critical
71 deaths
Hospitals functioning
No one should mimic the Swedish example, it was an error. An early and hopefully well observed lock-down, before the virus’s cases can build-up produces fast results. If we can get the domestic and international export economy powered up during May (and keep the virus out) we’ll have done extremely well. And just as our SEA neighbors begin to struggle, so they’ll need whatever product we can send their way, especially emergency medical production.
Suspect in three months we’ll be in much better shape then we’d thought we would be.
142
Interview with Tegnell’s former boss who is unapologetically on side with the Swedish strategy. Claiming mortalities are going to turn out much the same for all European countries once the dust has settled https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCYbut then there’s the economy.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY
00
The word you’re looking for… rhymes with “punts”!
10
Hunts
20
/Sarc Alert/ Think of all the good things that have come out of the lock down.
– Fewer car accidents
– No peak hour traffic
– Near empty trains, trams and buses
– Less home invasions
– Less drug dealing on the streets
– Cleaner air
– Police able to focus on easy citizen fines instead of catching criminals
– Parents learn how to teach, while teachers get paid for not doing much teaching
– No more oversized restaurant meals
– Fewer drink drivers
– No pub brawls
– Government domination – welcome to George Orwell’s 1984
52
– Bonking Ban
82
Now only 8 cases for the whole country! As expected. This is a war on all corona and rhino viruses into our island nation. Any of them. We don’t want them. Ever. Not measles, rabies, SARS, MERS, any of them.
And we don’t trust the Chinese military. This is not the first time and will not be the last. Nor WHO, which has totally failed in its sole duty to protect the world against pandemics. Or anyone except their political masters who can do no wrong. In fact the virus would not have spread without the active disinformation campaign and li*s of President Tedros. He must be charged by in the court for crime against humanity. Any country can bring this charge. It would be bad enough it he just did nothing, said nothing, but he used his authority to permit the rapid spread of the virus across the world. Almost never in modern times has the culpable action of one man k*lled so many people and with full knowledge of the consequences. He is up there with Pol Pot.
70
OT !
I posted on the last thread about a legal challenge to the NSW government over their inaction on climate change making the bushfires worse .
It seems it’s the Environmental defenders office taking the NSW EPA to court for their inaction over emissions which made the bushfires worse .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/nsw-bushfire-survivors-launch-court-action-against-epa/12164348
50
Those fo*ls behind this still do not realise
That if you live in the midst of the bush
One day you will be burned out
40
From time to time, the Bureau of Meteorology has a link to a site called Indigenous Weather Knowledge. In at least one of the areas in Victoria, January to March is includes high bushfire risk. So, presumably the knowledge of high bushfire risk has been around for thousands of years, but the climate change believers think the bushfires are caused by climate change which can be stopped.
60
In 2017 the World Bank with WHO’s help designed a series of Pandemic Bonds. They issued US$350 million of them. The bonds pay very high rates of interest because if there is a pandemic the a) series loses 15% of its capital and the b) series 100% of its capital, which is to be repaid in July 2020. The trigger is outlined in a 386 page document and is dependent on a number of factors, including: the time since the start of the outbreak; the number of countries where cases have been confirmed; the number of cases within a 12-week rolling period; the number of deaths in countries within the IBRD and IDA categories; the ratio of confirmed cases to total cases; and the case growth rate. Without going into intricate detail IBRD and IDA categories include China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Philippines and other so-called developing countries. WHO were very late in calling the pandemic. Scott Morrison called it 12 days earlier than WHO. In the weeks before the pandemic was called by WHO there was a lot of trading in Pandemic Bonds with the b) series selling for very low prices due to the sellers believing that they would lose all their capital. Guess what! The arbiter for this has decided on April 9 that these bonds are not going to lose their capital because the Chinese data when combined with the other IBRD and IDA countries do not show the necessary growth over the 12 week period from designated start of the pandemic and they never will because many countries such as India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia and Philippines do not have the ability to collect the data let alone test their populations to find out who has the virus. So these countries have reported only a fraction (sometimes only a few % of their own infections and deaths. Go figure! Then start thinking about who might have had the knowledge to have worked this out and was buying the cheap bonds when all the trading was occurring while WHO was seemingly making up its mind whether or not to call the pandemic. I don’t know who was buying the bonds and maybe the beneficial owners will never be traced but it sure looks very stinky to me. I suspect some people with inside knowledge are going to become very rich in July.
70
Brent,
Got a link to this.
Following the money is usually a good part of the puzzle for the bigger picture.
10
Brent,
Two tranches of the bonds were written down on Friday.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-17/coronavirus-triggers-133-million-writedown-on-pandemic-bonds
00
Thanks, Jambo.
Did anyone notice that the oil price fell off a cliff. It’s been marching dramatically lower since January. Now negative
https://www.bloomberg.com/energy
Just thought someone might be interested.
00
I have never much liked ‘scapegoating’ since it indicates weak thinking and foolish activity by those who create the need to identify someone to blame.
From the range of problems we have all created for ourselves via decades of nonsensical decision making we have seen imaginary monsters emerge because we have not been paying attention to fine detail in what we do. Is it wise to believe in bureaucratic global trust mechanisms when there has never been a time in our history when diplomacy has answered every question we have thrown at it?
We all need strong thinkers and self sufficiency at home regardless of what is apparently made available to us through united and long distance methods. Friendships, deals, and trust only last for as long as the many tests necessary to show they are based upon strong bonds. Global think tanks are only good enough when we are strongly capable of testing representatives’ resolve to show they know us and our needs as well as we know ourselves and our needs.
30
https://www.qld.gov.au/health/conditions/health-alerts/coronavirus-covid-19/current-status/current-status-and-contact-tracing-alerts
60
Was going to say the same. Let’s hope these zero diagnosis days start happening more often and that today wasn’t just a PCR machine getting Mondayitis.
60
Yes, happy about that, results were returned on Saturday and Sunday if you read at the media releases, so a lack of positive cases today will be real. The new cases number has been below 10 cases for 5 days straight, so we were due to get a zero this week, it just happened on the Monday.
60
An interesting article from Watts Up With That
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/19/nature-chicom-19-fatality-rate-similar-to-seasonal-flu/
21
No thanks again,
WUWT is infested with folks with a political agenda
For a pandemic infectious disease.
Sarc off/
Malinformation
02
Investigative Journalist needed, URGENTLY!
Our great Universities demanded that thousands of Chinese students be let back to attend, (And pay their fees) and our government let those Chinese students in.
Thousands of Chinese students, from China, where the COVID-19 first started infecting people and then spreading and then killing people.
So how many of those Thousands of Chinese students got sick and tested positive for COVID-19, or perhaps more telling for COVID-19 anti-bodies?
Perhaps we should sponsor a competition, Melbourne Journalists versus Sydney Journalists. They could ask if any of those Thousands of Chinese students got an injection of some mysterious sort before they flew here?
Of course that would mean the Journalists would have to investigate though so don’t hold your breath.
50
Hmm…..this guy, who wants to jab the population with who knows what, and propose no mass gatherings unless vaccinated, and marked like cattle with quantum dot tattoos….
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-microsoft-founder-bill-gates-federal-order-social-isolation-combat-pandemic/
“Mason: Yeah.
“Gates: And which activities, like mass gatherings, may be— in a certain sense— more optional. And so until you’re widely vaccinated, those may not come back at all.
The gall of the Elite, who faff about the world telling everyone what to do, meanwhile…..
Let the image ( below ) do the talking. Make up your own mind.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.html
“Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted sex offender who committed suicide in prison, managed to lure an astonishing array of rich, powerful and famous men into his orbit.
“There were billionaires (Leslie Wexner and Leon Black), politicians (Bill Clinton and Bill Richardson), Nobel laureates (Murray Gell-Mann and Frank Wilczek) and even royals (Prince Andrew).
“[Jeffrey Epstein’s charity: An image boost built on deception.]
“Few, though, compared in prestige and power to the world’s second-richest person, a brilliant and intensely private luminary: Bill Gates. And unlike many others, Mr. Gates started the relationship after Mr. Epstein was convicted of sex crimes.
00
So China made Italy pay for the PPE that Italy had donated to China? Nothing wrong with that – China gave them the virus for nothing!
Some people are so ungrateful…
40
Another interesting article at WattsUpWithThat which has a brief summary of current known facts which exclude China:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/19/wuhan-coronavirus-and-covid-19-rumination-5/
11
No thanks WUWT is infested with folks with a political agenda for a pandemic infectious disease.
Wonderful
Sarc off
03
We’ve had (someone else’s) own Cruise ships in our ports
Total bloody disasters both
Rud Istvan is ignorant.
His argument is not ‘plausible’.
02
“Rud Istvan is ignorant.”
His record says otherwise .
Do yourself a favor … look it up .
Being successful in multiple fields is ” ignorant ” ?
10
Two things. I have heard once again that Wuhan Flu is not so bad, not much worse than the usual k*ller flu. So explain Spain with less than double our population and 20,000 people dead in weeks and with lockdown.
Secondly, my idea and that of many others is that this virus can be exterminated quickly by isolation. South Korea is in single digits with new infections and so are we. Hospitals and hotels are clearing quickly. We will soon be virus free. Yes, it is possible and we have done it. In weeks.
Boris Johnson did not believe it. The Nederlands didn’t believe it. Sweden still doesn’t. It’s a lethal way to prove yourself wrong.
As so many times, we now need to keep this virus and all the other viruses, bacteria, fungi, aphids, nasties out of our country. We need strong borders. We had just become very lax on people health, except perhaps for CJD/Mad Cow.
And if the other countries have strong borders, we are all better off. We could easily have lost more people than the entire of WWII. America lost 400,000 in WWII. They lose 60,000 a year to the flu and already 40,000 from this. It’s time to stop them all. We have the technology.
40
Covid19 isn’t finished.
5.7% growth in reported infections in Ontario today.
They are now acknowledging 2 streams (curves)
– longterm care residences
– everyone else
The curve for everyone else is flattening. Let’s hope so
00
https://www.theblogmire.com/a-comparison-of-lockdown-uk-with-non-lockdown-sweden/
30
Link gives just spinning wheels
Not very useful Steve.
01
The link works for me….
00
Yes works for me too
Notice that the UK and Sweden have roughly the same deaths per capita. Yet both countries are also suffering from invasion of covid19 into aged care facilities. The elderly is where the bulk of deaths are occurring
Elderly deaths are swamping the mortality rate everywhere. It makes it difficult to understand what is going on. So much depends upon how the virus gets into these aged-care residence and spreads within them. Worse than that, these vulnerable places have less tests. Deaths aren’t reported as being covid19 specific.
The pandemic statistics are a huge mess.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-52246860
10
Way, way off topic:
Oil is currently US$11.82/bbl.
I can not remember it this low – even before the oil shock of the early 1970s.
No one is making money out of oil at this price, even the Saudis and Iran.
Norway is history at this price, despite the virus effect.
At present Putin is thrashing Trump. Trump purchased oil. Putin purchased gold.
11
Actually it’s now negative. Depression here we come unless we act now and remove restrictions world-wide in a controlled but quick manner.
10
Pre OPEC in early 1970’s Arabian Light crude was US$1.50-1.80/barrel.
10