Finally, one world leader calls a spade a turkey. The US is the largest funder to the World Health Organisation, yet the WHO acts in China’s best interests. On January 31 the WHO could have saved the world by isolating China. Instead, the chief raved about President Xi and advised that flights should stay open because it will harm the economy:
“Travel restrictions can cause more harm than good by hindering info-sharing, medical supply chains and harming economies,” the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Friday. [Jan 31]
As I said then: How many people will the WHO kill with this advice? It was reckless negligence.
Donald Trump has placed a “hold” on funding the World Health Organisation after they got so much wrong on Coronavirus.
Charlie Speerling, Breitbart
“We want to look into the World Health Organization because they really called it wrong,” Trump said. “They missed the call, they could have called it months earlier, they would have known, they should have known, and they probably did know.”
The president noted that the WHO actually criticized his travel ban from China that he set in late January.
“Such restrictions can have the effect of increasing fear and stigma, with little public health benefit,” WHO Director-General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said about travel bans just days after Trump banned travel from China.
“They seem to be very China-centric,” he said. “That’s a nice way of saying it, but they seem to be very China-centric, and they seem to err always on the side of China.
It’s a warning shot across the bows. He may keep funding them, or he may not. By exposing them, he’s letting the WHO and China know that game is up. But he’s staying at the table, so expecting Tedros-the-belt-and-road-rep-from-China to come up with some goods. What’s on Trumps wish list: Chloroquine? PPE? Antibiotics?
It’s about time.
In other news, Trump is saving Boris Johnson from his own medical system:
James, Delingpole, Breitbart: Boris Johnson may be denied Chloroquine
President Trump is so worried about the health of Prime Minister Boris Johnson — currently in intensive care with Chinese Coronavirus — that he has offered U.S. medical support.
The chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, has banned doctors from treating Covid-19 with anything other than paracetamol and in severe cases, oxygen.
According to the Guardian, President Trump said shortly after PM Johnson was moved to intensive care:
“I’ve asked two of the leading companies … They’ve come with the solutions and just have done incredible jobs – and I’ve asked him to contact London immediately,” Trump said. “They’ve really advanced therapeutics … and they have arrived in London already. The London office has whatever they need. We’ll see if we can be of help. We’ve contacted all of Boris’s doctors, and we’ll see what is going to take place, but they are ready to go.”
“They’ve had meetings with the doctors, and we’ll see whether or not they want to go that route,” Trump added. “But when you’re in intensive care it’s a big deal. So they’re there and they’re ready.
Britain, … remains in thrall to its stolid, sclerotic, overcautious, unimaginative, rules-bound public health bureaucracy. In normal times, this bureaucracy was merely inefficient, wasteful, and a massive drain on the taxpayer. But in extraordinary times like these, this public health bureaucracy has become a positive menace.
UPDATE: That worked fast 🙂 7:24pm UK time. Boris has just been released from intensive care.
[snip off topic]
A good way to end up on the blacklist for moderation is to post irrelevant off topic material at #1. – Jo
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[snip off topic]
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[Snip, fair but a reply to “off topic”]
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OK then, how about an on topic comment to start off with?
Donald Trump has consistently made the right decision and here he does it again. If WHO takes our money and uses it against us then WHO needs them? Not the United States. And not the rest of the world either. Let them redeem themselves on their own before giving them money again.
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Tedros = Dead loss.
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A few letters missing
Tedros = The Dross
00
Britain remains in thrall to….science based peer review medicine.
Sweden has just abandoned tests on this malarial drug trump is so keen on which was not effective and had some serious side effects.
I am with him on the WHO however the Chief is a Chinese stooge bought by Ethiopians huge indebtedness to china. They persuaded various countries to vote for this guy instead of the far better qualified British candidate. It was said at the time it was the kick in the teeth for our voting brexit by our former friends and allies. Seems unlikely to me but china got its way.
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These serious side effects keep being brought up but it’s safe to use to relieve symptoms from lupus, which it does in only some cases. It’s been shown to cause problems when people who use high doses in unregulated creams to whiten their skin. It has caused retinal damage after 5 years of high doses. There have been no deaths from prescribed doses since 1961. Three children died in Africa from malaria medication although not thoroughly investigated.
When these experts play up it’s dangers, you do need to wonder if you might be getting better information through Trump.
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Back in 1986 I and my family escaped the gross incompetence and murderous practices of the British medical system. We went to an alleged stone age country (PNG) where we were able to get what we had been denied, eg FOI (against the Brits) on medical records, required medications for my wife over the counter, etc etc. Chloroquine was supplied by our employers, PNGUT. 5 of us, weekly dose for 3 years, no significant side-effects, didn’t get malaria, but no one got the common cold or flu either. Chloroquine is useful as a preventitive because it has the same action against the corona virus as it had on the malaria. It is, and was, well-known that it won’t help when the illness has progressed beyond a certain point.
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Martin, very interesting. What was the weekly dose of Chloroquine in milligrammes? Was Hydroxychloroquine and/or quinine also available for treatment? Did people take anything with the chloroquine such as vitamins or other anti-malarial drugs?
Was it well known in your community that nobody would get viruses on Chloroquine?
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This is typical of experts (so called) faced with information that challenges their previously held belief. The tactic of self justification is to downplay the rule, and emphasise the exception. In other words present the exception as the rule, and the rule as the exception. I have seen this tactic used repeatedly in the area of environmental management.
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To understand how the medical establishment reacts when confronted with new medical approaches that substantially differ from current practices, look at the story of Barry Marshall and his cure for stomach ulcers. Barry had to infect himself to prove the his approach worked.
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Good example Graeme 4.
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Even more relevant. Semmelweiss spent his whole life trying to convince his peers hand washing would lead to less infection. That was almost three hundred years ago and we’re still having to remind people during this virus outbreak that simple hand washing stops infection.
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Expert: definition: X is the unknown factor and a Spert is a drip under pressure.
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Morning all,
FYI, from Sydney Morning Herald.
…
Coronavirus cure candidate, favoured by Trump, gets university trials
President Donald Trump recommended hydroxychloroquine to treat the new coronavirus, causing an uproar last month among health officials across the world.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/coronavirus-cure-candidate-favoured-by-trump-gets-university-trials-20200409-p54itc.html?btis
…
This could be interesting, but:
1. “… have not been proven “: How about the evidence from at least three human trials – successful – in three countries, each showing over 90% success if implemented early enough;
2. The proposed trials all seem to omit the zinc.?? Do they want this to fail?; and
3. As someone pointed out here a day or so back, when clinical trials show success, it become unethical ( or worse?) to withhold that treatment from control groups. Aren’t we at that stage?
…
Cheers
Dave B
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There can be no doubt that some do want that, regrettably.
It has become political at this point. Just like the failed “man-made CO2 causes catastrophic global warming” hypothesis.
It’s now more about stopping President Trump from being right, than saving lives. The left never cares about lives. Just ask Pol Pot or Mao or Stalin or any of the other socialist psychopaths.
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Think ZINC! Zinc, Zinc, Zinc, Zinc……
This element is so important in our health. I can’t emphasise this enough! Zn is possibly the most important trace element in our bodies. More abundant than any other trace element except Ca and Fe, which are mostly tied up in the skeleton and the blood haemoglobin. Zn is involved in more than 100 enzyme or hormone reactions as a catalyst. eg Zn is not present in either the Insulin hormone or the Lactase enzyme to digest Lactose in milk. But without Zn, neither will work. Zinc helps recovery from surgery eg “Zinc in wound healing modulation” Nutrients 2018 10(1) 16. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793244/
Zn has already been identified as stopping replication of the coronavirus in cells. But doctors wont administer it to patients? Why?
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I forgot to mention Zn+Vit C effect on the cold virus:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22429343
“A combination of high-dose vitamin C plus zinc for the common cold.” J Int Med Res. 2012;40(1):28-42.
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Sweden with CFR of 8.7%. Not too promising.
How, and at what stage did they use hydroxychloroquine. Some have only used it in the advanced stage of the disease.
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As they say…medicine progresses one funeral ( of doctors ) at a time….
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AND, if you make a mistake, you bury it.
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There was a book called ” Dead Doctors Don’t Lie”.
Maybe a bit harsh.
00
Money it seems, can buy anything, even dead bodies from a deadly plague.
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Interesting. I hadn’t realised that a Chinese person had held the top job at the WHO for a decade.
Seems like lots of dirty politics involved in appointing her successor with china determined to retain control.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/may/23/vote-who-world-health-organization-top-job-director-general-after-weeks-of-mud-slinging
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Worth repeating about Britain’s public health bureaucracy.
” In normal times, this bureaucracy was merely inefficient, wasteful, and a massive drain on the taxpayer.
But in extraordinary times like these, this public health bureaucracy has become a positive menace.”
It seems like the templet used for all bureaucracies. Seeing the problem clearly is the biggest step in finding the Fix.
KK
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“Britain, … remains in thrall to its stolid, sclerotic, overcautious, unimaginative, rules-bound public health bureaucracy.”
IIRC, it can be sprightly—even frenetic—and quite imaginative, when it comes to opining about the danger of climate change.
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Mouthing off about climate change takes only talk. It needs no action or actual accomplishment.
Taking care of patients is hard work. You have to accomplish something very day.
I’d say that’s a classic case of what happens when one path has less resistance than the other. 🙂
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KK,
When the buyer (read patient) can’t vote for an alternative by using the alternative, that’s exactly what always happens. I can make a strong circumstantial case that Medicare is the root cause of the ordeal I’ve just been through — am still in though the danger to my health and well being is over. Decisions by the source of funding for medical care can be deadly.
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Hi Roy, I think I can see what Australia might become soon.
At the moment we can have private insurance but the competing funds advertise different benefits so it is hard to choose the best and cheapest.
I suspect that we will evolve into something like the U.S. system which seems to be very expensive.
Seventy years ago when I was very young it seemed that everyone could afford to go see the doctor and get basic care.
Today, through public medical services, governments provide basic care for the poor and unemployed and even complex medicine is available if you survive the waiting list.
For the rest of us a modern expectation of timely care for the more complex problems requires health insurance and that is probably where Australia will see large cost increases in the future to bring us up to the U.S. level.
So in seventy years we have gone from good, basic, cheap care to complex funding with a very large middleman taking a cut.
Politicians can make anything complex if there’s a dollar in it.
KK
20
Keth.
I think the high cost is in large part because insurance in some form is there to pay for it. In this country before WWII came along there was no insurance for medical care that I know of. But then came the war and Roosevelt put Henry J. Kaiser in charge of building the many ships that would be needed to transport goods and troops to the battle in Europe. Kaiser put together a huge operation that ultimately was launching a Liberty Ship a day {what an operation!!!).
Kaiser’s operation was labor intensive, he needed workers. He had to compete for them on the open market when wages and salaries were frozen. What to do? He needed a competitive advantage when the best advantage would have been higher pay. But Henry had an idea. Ha started offering medical care for employees and their families in a Kaiser facility. That added inducement worked wonders. That Kaiser medical plan became Kaiser Permanente, probably the largest HMO in operation today.
If someone could offer a medical benefit other employers needed to compete and that necessity led to the medical insurance industry of today.
Note that already we see the cost going up because the insurance middleman needed a cut out of the money going between patient and doctor to be able to hire workers and be profitable.
In turn the availability of insurance to allow patients to pay for more expensive drugs and treatment, sparked research and ultimately made available all the many treatments we have today. I have a brand new pacemaker that would not be available to me without insurance to pay for it. I shudder to think about how much that little 1 inch square box costs.
The benefit is huge but it’s a system that just begs to be exploited and the cost creep is breaking the camels back.
I have no solution — well not true because what I would do would brand me as inhumane and worse. And I’m not sure that the problem would be solved or that there would not e adverse consequences to the finest medical care anywhere in the world.
we are the victim of our success as a species, Keith.
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“The chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, has banned doctors from treating Covid-19 with anything other than paracetamol and in severe cases, oxygen.”
Explains a CFR of 12.25%. Perhaps a massive class action will follow this epidemic.
WE all know Einstein’s definition of insanity. Well the British elite in almost any area personify it. Anyone with a knowledge of military history will be well aware of this. I fear our Therapeutics Goods Administration may be found to be of a similar mold. I hope not though.
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[…] Jo Nova reports on Trump’s challenge to the WHO. […]
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At least the music is still playing.
Rhapsody by Queen on COVID-19
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Update: Boris has just been released from intensive care.
See even the mention of Trump can bring results, CV19 didn’t stand a chance……must’ve scared the CELL out of it.
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Hindsight is great isn’t, especially why you can ignore facts.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trump-biden-spin-china-travel-restrictions/
One question no one seems to as is this: it’s winter in china, people are getting the flu, how would you know that this was different?
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1 : Hindsight informs decisions we make for the future
So they can be done better.
2: The WHO led by ‘Dead Loss” has been incompetent time & time again
In this Pandemic because it has been acting with a political agenda
Dominated by the Chinese Communist Party government.
This is evidenced by the WHO’s complete ignoring of how Taiwan has managed this pandemic since early January.
And it’s blessing of the draconian people killing strategy used by the CCP in Wuhan.
But I suspect none of this is of any importance to you.
It conflicts with your own political agenda and ideology.
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This is spin rather than a fact check. Biden and other Democrats were very critical of these travel bans for weeks after. WHO was critical of them when they should have recommended them. Trump gets criticised by the same people for not bringing them in a few days earlier, which they didn’t because they were misinformed by the WHO and the Chinese.
It’s not a fact check when facts get ignored.
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“especially why you can ignore facts.”
Poor PF, making up his own version of the “facts”, yet again.
PF, you always ignore the facts.. it is all you can do.
And thinking the far-left, self-named “factcheck” site actually checks facts..
… now that is gullibly funny !
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I think that it’s spring in China PF. It has been since the beginning of March.
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Short term memory, Trump initially called it just another flu and wanted packed churches for Easter !. He continually lets his hunches override the facts.
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The mark of a great leader is one who changes his mind when the evidence is against him.
Smart man President Trump.
Biden? Not so much. Does he have a mind anymore?
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Evidence against him ?, he doesn’t listen to military advice ( stabbing the Kurds in the back)
Medical evidence, or lack of ( Chloroquine)
Israeli/ Palestinian peace process ( ask Jarred how that’s going)
Science, he has hunches instead.
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The virus in the Uk France Italy and Spain is different to the one in other areas according to Cambridge university
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/covid-19-genetic-network-analysis-provides-snapshot-of-pandemic-origins
Sweden abandoned a scientific patient testing of the malaria drug because it wasn’t effective and caused serious side effects. In the absence of a vaccine, paracetamol and oxygen are best non invasive ways of treating the virus.
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Interesting report from Cambridge.
In my view, the most likely “death” of C19 is through its’ own evolutionary mutations into a strain less lethal to homo sapiens. SARS, MERS, various Ebola strains, HiV all followed that path, no vaccines. The concept of herd immunity fundamentally misunderstands this in that it is not only our antibody production but also the evolution of the virus that kills it.
A lecture I attended quite a while ago at Sydney Uni from a leading British geneticist expounded on some fascinating facts. At that point, he and his team were involved with the genetics of HiV. They had been “lucky” to have tracked an extinct strain of HiV to what seemed like Patient Zero for that strain – a corpse in an African country that had been deliberately preserved (frozen) in the exact hope that the strain could eventually be mapped. As he said:” … and there it was, just as evolutionary theory predicted”.
Another fascinating insight that he discussed came from a long term genome mapping programme that included database DNA information extracted from samples across northern european countries. This record attracted his attention because the advent of HiV in these countries was significantly lower than elsewhere – a genuine pattern. Clearly a particular DNA combination in those populations supplied a better immunity to HiV. But the most interesting fact in this pattern was that those same areas (and ancestral populations) had also recorded significantly less damage from the various medieval plagues. To paraphrase a popular film line, I want what they’re having.
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You have to wonder if this isn’t a fact that killing your victim is not wise if you wish to infect more people. While that is anthropomorphic, ascribing intelligence to a dumb chemical, it works. And if people are infected by the less virulent strain, the do not produce the seek and isolate and destroy response in humans. They become tolerated. Ultimately after half the people in the country are dead.
And it is important to appreciate that the virus does not have to kill the victim directly, just cripple society and the supply chains for mega cities. Starvation and wars for food will do the job just as quickly as Stalin and Hitler knew. Cheaper too. Even the French revolution followed a period of drought where the people were starving and did not appreciate being told to eat cake.
We have decided as a society that we do not want disaster. So we will work together to stop this monster. And we will not tolerate more.
Yes, we can eliminate species. It is rare though that humans are united enough to do it. Most is quite accidental. The ‘Extinction Rebellion’ is about saving the planet, possibly for other species.
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> ” … it works”
No, it doesn’t.
The RNA snippet does not act with intent. The various strains do become extinct from some perhaps, preferred host, but zoonosis is a function of lucky chance mutations, not intent; nor is mutating into a strain that cannot survive the hosts’ immune system anything other than random.
A South Korean virology lab has reported that they have idenitified 8 separate strains of this particular virus. I don’t know if this yet independently confirmed, but that is likely. Cambridge from the PNAS report linked above have identified several different strains from mutations occurring as the virus spread west from Wuhan.
I suggest you could perhaps read more deeply on why various bat species appear to be primary hosts for the original coronavirus mutations.
00
Interesting link, thanks Tony.
Not so sure about Sweden though. Hydroxychloroquine has been used for decades as a malarial suppressant, for Lupus and I believe also for severe cases of rheumatoid arthritis. All long term use. The side effects are well known and any information that I have seen, side effects have not been observed in short term use.
I wonder about “confirmation bias”.
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Paracetamol is no good for people who can’t tolerate it. I’m glad I’m not in the UK atm.
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JN The WHO not so much wrong, which they were, but grossly dishonest and plainly liars.
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“The chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, has banned doctors from treating Covid-19 with anything other than paracetamol and in severe cases, oxygen.” This is incorrect, Chris Whitty has encouraged trials of treatment regimes. I know personally of a number of patients trialling a number of treatments in the UK (including Hydroxychloroquine). I certainly agree with the criticism of the WHO, they constantly parroted Chinese propaganda, leaving the rest of the world poorly informed and ill prepared until it was too late. I would also agree that Public Health England, specifically, is a lumbering bureaucracy which needs a total revamp, but the NHS as a whole is trialling many treatments and no drug has been ‘banned’, although it is preferred that any new treatments are tried as part of a trial, Doctors in the UK can still make independent prescribing decisions. Over 1000 patients from 132 hospitals are already taking part in trials. A number of medications are included, such as Lopinavir-Ritonavir, Dexamethasone, and Hydroxychloroquine.
https://www.recoverytrial.net/
30
Monckton agrees it’s very infectious and dangerous ( finally )
“Be in no doubt. This disease is a lot worse than flu. It puts more people into intensive care, where they require costlier and more advanced treatment, where they will be in intensive care for twice the time required by other viral pneumonia-patients, and where they are more than twice as likely to die as those other patients.
So don’t dismiss it lightly. Not any more. Wash hands often. Wear full-face masks when out of doors or away from home. Take Vitamin D3 daily. Be safe.”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/09/but-is-it-really-no-worse-than-flu/
Me ? I’m glad we here in Oz did not wait for his approval before taking lockdown action here to stop this vile bit of RNA !
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I would always follow Monckton on medical aadvice
01
Then you’d know he realized the HIV threat before most did. Ahead of the curve there too.
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It seems that the WHO is not Solomon
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It seems that the WHO is not Solomon
10
The dude at the top of the WHO….he appears to be a hard lefty…..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8199719/Dr-Tedros-Ghebreyesus-career-politician-running-China-centric-WHO.html
“How the man running World Health Organisation trashed by Trump as China-centric is a career politician who worked for a Communist junta and became its first NON-doctor Director-General ‘following intense lobbying from Beijing’
“-Tedros Ghebreyesus is Director-General of the WHO and leading global response to coronavirus pandemic
“-He studied in the UK before serving at the top of Ethiopia’s government and was part of hard-left TPLF party
“-During that time, contributions by China to Ethiopia via various UN programmes increased dramatically
“-In 2017 he was elected to lead the WHO, amid allegations of heavy lobbying by Chinese diplomats
“-His response to the pandemic has been heavily criticised, particularly his praise for China’s government
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Wire brush and dettol is awesome too.
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When you read of all the advances in microbiology and understanding viruses and advancing technologies like cloning antibodies, this does seem like one giant leap into the past. Not even aspirin, the wonder drug of the 20th century because it is out of favor, pushed aside by the virulently anti aspirin paracetamol lobby. It goes to show that any science field can be politicized.
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Aspirin is a wonderful drug, used properly and not abused. It is grossly underrated because it is so common and cheap. One of our offspring was saved from heart damage by a combination of antibiotics and adult-sized doses of aspirin (child aged 5 years). It was basically rheumatic fever but was called post-streptoccocal arthritis as there was no heart damage; thanks to a quick- thinking GP and the old Battle Hospital in Reading.
I know that there are people who have a bad reaction to aspirin, as I have a bad one to paracetamol. We are all different.
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rheumatic fever
Often damages heart valves
Exam and monitor
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As I understand it Boris was admitted as a precaution in case it became necessary to use an incubator, but was not an intensive care patient.
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“Incubator” ?
How young is he ?
🙂
40
I expect Boris would have had the MOST Intensive care of anyone in the UK hospital system.
It would have been a bad look for the NHS if the current PM succumbed to a ‘dose of the flu’.
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One son had febrile convulsions from a fever. Half an aspirin and he was instantly fine. Doctors say you must use paracetamol. Now there are cases admitted to the Children’s hospital of paracetamol poisoning because it doesn’t work!
Aspirin was a near natural medicine, from chewing the bark of the Willow tree. Unfortunately that was basic and caused stomach bleeding. Bayer in Germany solved that by making it an acid, salicyclic acid and a huge industry was born which made two Victorian pharmacists billionaires. In WWI the British invalidated the German patents and auctioned off the right to manufacture asprin. So the Nicholas family became rich.
The list of benefits of aspirin are a page long, a lot related to its anti inflammatory behviour, reducing the problem not blocking the pain. It can prevent heart attacks from clot formation, even kill some cancers. Older people are often on half an aspiring a day.
The other natural medicine is garlic, but I digress.
My observation is that the pharmaceutical companies have not been able to improve on aspirin, so they have waged a campaign against it. The same with Trump’s approved, cheap and readily availble suggestion of hydroxychlorquin. A lot of big companies stand to lose a lot of money if this works. So they demand double negative trials which will take years. I hope it works. And it is being trialled now. And the drug companies can go find something better and stop making all their stuff in China and the Phillipines.
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I have to wonder what is the use of “Intensive Care” if it is limited to paracetamol and oxygen.
I am just glad that Johnson was not put on a ventilator. A large majority of Covid patients who are put on one do not survive, yet there are constant calls for more and more of them to be supplied. The limitations of medical science is another lesson from all this.
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Ventilators work but they are a last resort for those who will almost certainly die without them. Often it cannot save them. So I would not blame the ventilator. Blame the disease.
You get similar logic with people dying of stress induced heart failure, who died with the infection not of the infection. This is semantics. The Wuhan Virus killed them. If they didn’t get it, they would be alive today.
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100% correct on all points TdeF. Green thumb from me.
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How do you know that the Wuhan virus induced the stress that induced the heart failure?
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I have experienced it. When you cannot breathe, your heart does not get enough oxygen which is exactly what happens in a heart attack. If you have heart problems, even low level problems, lung problems are a killer.
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Fair enough ; it wasn’t clear at #19.1 that you were talking about people with existing problems before they picked up the virus.
40
And the virus attacks many areas, kidney, heart, gut. Even if you survive you can have holes in your lungs, heart damage and more. These are quite separate damage from the knock on effect of not being able to breathe. The other cause of death would be cascading organ failure. It’s a killer, even for healthy people.
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And yet the nine confirmed cases in the nearby city are all recovering at home .
So who is zooming who?
I get my information direct from the hospital.
21
In the Spanish flu, the bulk of the victims were healthy and in the 20-50 age group. Perversely it took those fit young men with strong immune systems. Children and the aged were spared because they had slow to poor immune responses. The young men drowned in a cytokine storm as their own antibodies did more damage than the virus.
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Try holding your breath for ten minutes. Asphyxiation. It’s the same thing with the Wuhan Virus. A little stressful.
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Good grief….Just “a little stressful“?
The symptoms you are describing can be a symptom of acute stress, and not viral at all. Do any authors here have any idea how bad for human health stress is?
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“Do any authors here have any idea how bad for human health stress is?”
Yep. Not good for freedom either. Nor is it good for rational thinking and behaviour.
21
Have you discovered what was making the automatic moderator so trigger happy? Hope so.
Cheers
Dave B
10
Nope . No idea .
[ Check your comments on the last thread. ] AD
30
I did. Rapid posting after initial moderation was it?
If it was content , please do say.
FB
00
That is not the sole treatment in intensive care. The wards are environmentally controlled – constant temperature; single pass filtered air; humidity controlled. They have a high level of patient monitoring for all sorts of body function. The patient will have a drip. Intensive care nurses are specialists at what they do.
There will be drugs to calm patients suffering from respiratory distress.
I have seen images of Covid 19 patients face down to relieve lung congestion. So this is another element. Then there is treatment for all the other organ failures that may be associated with the virus.
This is the Covid19 ICU guideline for Australia:
https://www.anzics.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ANZICS-COVID-19-Guidelines-Version-1.pdf
Most of the relevant details start at page 28. There are 13 steps in the management of respiratory failure. I expect these are constantly being upgraded. My son (has been an ICU doctor) said two weeks ago that there was good information coming out of New York. ICUs across the world are sharing their experiences.
There is a discussion in that guideline on what is regarded as experimental therapies. None are recommend but there could be other reasons for using some of those.
60
Channel 7 Sunrise has just done some propaganda for the Chinese. “If you want reliable information on coronavirus, you can get it from WHO”
They go on about the conspiracy of 5G being responsible. Deliberate misinformation because people are critical of China’s behaviour and linking it to them being involved in 5G. They get clowns to spin straw man arguments and attack them.
The real conspiracy theory comes from advertising for researchers to study novel bat viruses at the Wuhan laboratory before the outbreak. Very up front about what was being researched so not a deliberately man made bioweapon. Just that someone stuffed up and released the virus in the market accidently.
70
This echos having, oh,
I don’t know, maybe a railroad engineer in charge of climate stuff.
190
WHO is more interested in going squee over Lady GaGa and going off at Taiwan.
Not really taking this very seriously to be honest.
80
How come cities such as Xian, Beijing and Shanghai have had no significant effect from Coronavirus?
How come no senior Chinese government or military personnel have contracted Coronavirus?
60
I receive that email too, toorightmate.
The following was my response:
Regarding the statement that “the virus had no effect on Beijing and Shanghai”, somebody has not understood that Beijing put in place its quarantine arrangements (14 days isolation and restrictions on travel ) on Friday 14 February. So it was locked down.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/china-beijing-coronavirus-quarantine-covid19-12436808
Shanghai has been heavily hit too. As of 11 March only a third of the city’s 11,000 (or so) stores had reopened for business, resulting from their closure due to the need to control the virus:
https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3074092/covid-19-outbreak-have-devastating-impact-shanghai
As to the statement: “maybe they also have the antidote/vaccine that they are not sharing with the world”, clearly that is wrong too. Where did the initial Hydroxychloroquine research come from? Every author was from Beijing. It was published on 9 March in an international journal:
Xueting Yao, Fei Ye, Miao Zhang, et al. In Vitro Antiviral Activity and Projection of Optimized Dosing Design of Hydroxychloroquine for the Treatment of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). “Clinical Infectious Diseases”, (ciaa237, https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciaa237 ) Published: 09 March 2020.
Having said all that, I agree that the Chinese have much to answer for, as does the WHO – especially its Chinese running dog CEO – Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus – who is not a medical doctor at all. A Communist and a killer, who is in the thrall on the Chinese Communist Party.
10
This really is the fog of war. There are so many different agendas and there is the covid problem.
This is more on the Chloroquine and Zinc question.
It looks as if Chloroquine and Zinc supplements optimized. Zinc by itself does not work because it can not get into the cell. This is the same treatment that a orthodox Jewish doctor used to treat his patients except he waited for them to show symptoms. As he is also orthodox and lives in the community he gets early access to the patient.
Chloroquine is a Zinc Ionosphere that allows a small amount of the positive zinc ion (Z+2) into our cells which are negative polarity. The positive Zinc ion stops the covid virus from replicating. There is no advantage to use more Chloroquine or Zinc that necessary to get the micro amount of Zinc into the cell.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4182877/pdf/pone.0109180.pdf
The tests of Chloroquine need to include activated zinc supplements as that drastically reduces the amount Chloroquine per day that is required and opens up taking it for a longer period of time.
The recommended dosages of Chloroquine used by the Chinese 1000 mg/day and the South Koreans 500 mg/day for patients that are showing symptoms is ridiculously high and there is no mention of the Zinc supplements.
The dosages of Chloroquine to get zinc into the cell is 30 mg. If low dosage Chloroquine and Zinc supplements is tolerable for say a year this would provide protection against covid until there is vaccine or other solution.
The point is if the Covid virus cannot replicate we can get immunity with less risk if the population that is going to break isolation have the micro amount of zinc in their cells which stop covid replication.
Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine
https://youtu.be/U7F1cnWup9M
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Ages ago there was a discussion about how potassium supplements
Helped zinc get int the cells of the body.
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William Astley, great to see someone else thinking this through.
– Chloroquine, Hydroxychloroquine and Qunine are all Zinc IONOPHORES.
– The anti-malarial dosage of Chloroquine is usually 300mg per week or 50mg a day. The latter is seen to be more effective in acute cases.
– I’ve copped plenty of criticism on this blog (none of it substantiated scientifically) for suggesting 30-40mg of quinine/chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine daily plus <50mg zinc is a good prophylactic for Covid-19.
– I have been taking the above combination for three weeks now with no side effects.
– I work in a high risk environment. Have travelled throughout Switzerland, United States (Los Angeles, New York City) during the high growth phases of virus with no infection. In the early stages without a mask.
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What is the criticism of using Zn to stop the virus from replicating?
Did anyone here or elsewhere that you know, find any scientific concerns with using the specific Ionosphores to get micro amounts of zinc into our cells?
This a big deal as it could be used to protect a portion of the population when we break quarantine.
It could also be used to protect healthcare workers who are terrified.
Also tests of chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine are pointless if the small zinc supplement is not included.
Also the zinc is most effective if it is in the cells before the covid virus enters our body. It is like a shield against covid. If the virus.
It is unbelievable that this ‘breakthrough’ is not been proposed to be used for the population which must break quarantine.
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Can’t pin the resistance to zinc + Chloroquine on anything other than the usual doctor’s professional fear and arrogance. Which to my mind makes many of them pretty useless at this moment. I know a number of leading doctors are using it in the US. I’m sure some of the leading doctors in Australia won’t be afraid to use the treatment.
I heard from one friend in the US whose doctor suggested the Chloroquine might speed the virus into the cell. I think this is absolute nonsense though.
Its a big deal but getting a heartbeat out of the crowd on this blog when it comes to lateral thinking ain’t easy. There is absolutely no doubt chloroquine works. It’s very likely Zinc improves the result even further. The Zpac simply closes the door on infections whilst the chloroquine is at work. Randomised double blind studies will come in time. There are no words for people who say we should wait for the trials to conclude when we have people dying by the thousands. These are drugs that have been in use since the 1930’s.
Dr. Jelenko used the zinc blend with chloroquine on 700 patients prophylactically. Only one patient who was already very ill had to be intubated. I’d suggest his patient numbers have escalated dramatically since this was reported a few weeks ago. Youtube initially banned his video. The FDA got on his case before Trump intervened.
The health authorities in Australia aren’t even interested in testing those in quarantine for the virus. The inherent hysteria and stupidity of this approach is beyond words. The notion that they might provide a prophylactic is unlikely to have crossed their minds.
As with many things in this world, it will take some time for the dimmer bulbs to illuminate on this treatment.
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” It’s very likely Zinc improves the result even further”.
I suggest that you have that the wrong way around.
It is the zinc penetration to cellular level that improves the immune response in those cases that are not too far gone.
00
William Astley, here is a further reference;
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/trumps-miracle-drug-french-study-1000-patients-including-seniors-see-98-success-rate-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-regimen/
Put up some further thoughts here – http://joannenova.com.au/2020/04/coronavirus-nearly-800-people-under-the-age-of-50-have-died-in-the-us/#comment-2308804
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US now coming second on the total Covid19 death toll. Should be #1 very soon; could be tomorrow. Their death rate per population is less than half of UK. New York and London have a lot in common. London will have a proportionally larger impact on UK than New York on US.
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Dr Scott Jensen (USA) has revealed that doctors are being instructed to show almost any death as being due to the Coronavirus.
His view is that the instruction is to maintain the hysteria (Cuomo?).
My theory (ho, ho, ho) is that the anti-Trump brigade in the USA medical fraternity wants the figures to look as bad as possible. This is an election year.
How come New York is so much worse than anywhere else in North America? Is it because Cuomo delayed the Trump recommendations for a couple of weeks, particularly in liaising with people recently returned from China.
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“How come New York is so much worse than anywhere else in North America? ”
You mean you want a factor besides population density , age of inhabitants, pre-existing conditions , and the fact that it’s a shirthole?
21
So are LA, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Washington DC, etc, etc, etc.
00
“3 Ways New York Botched the Coronavirus Response in March
“A hapless mayor and overpraised governor made false promises, gave inaccurate health information, and helped turn Gotham into the pandemic’s epicenter, according to The New York Times”
MATT WELCH | 4.9.2020 12:45 PM Reason magazine
https://reason.com/2020/04/09/3-ways-new-york-botched-the-coronavirus-response-in-march/?utm_medium=email
40
11-day trends in the UK:
UK | ∆ % New Cases
30th March … 13.4
31st March … 13.6
1st April … 17.2
2nd April … 14.4
3rd April … 13.2
4th April … 9.8
5th April … 14.1
6th April … 8.0
7th April … 7.0
8th April … 9.9
9th April … 7.2
UK | ∆ % Died
30th March … 6.4
31st March … 7.1
1st April … 8.0
2nd April … 8.7
3rd April … 9.4
4th April … 10.3
5th April … 10.3
6th April … 10.4
7th April … 11.1
8th April … 11.7
9th April … 12.3
7-day trends in the USA
USA | ∆ % New Cases
3rd April … no data
4th April … 14.27
5th April … 8.02
6th April … 8.86
7th April … 8.06
8th April … 9.94
9th April … 7.67
USA | ∆ % Died
3rd April … 2.67
4th April … 2.61
5th April … 2.86
6th April … 2.97
7th April … 3.23
8th April … 3.40
9th April … 3.56
Countries over 250 ACTIVE cases and higher than 2.5% died:
% Died | Country | Active cases | % New v Active
14.11 … Algeria … 1,084 … 8.7
12.73 … Italy … 96,877 … 4.3
12.26 … UK … 56,964 … 7.6
11.01 … Netherlands … 19,116 … 6.3
10.37 … France … 82,333 … 5.8
10.21 … San Marino … 250 … 10.0
10.10 … Belgium … 17,296 … 9.1
10.08 … Spain … 85,610 … 5.8
8.68 … Sweden … 8,143 … 8.9
8.50 … Indonesia … 2,761 … 12.2
7.06 … Morocco … 1,168 … 8.5
6.95 … Egypt … 1,233 … 11.3
6.73 … Hungary … 818 … 10.4
6.71 … Honduras … 314 … 9.9
6.36 … Bangladesh … 276 … 40.6
6.21 … Iran … 29,801 … 5.5
5.60 … Iraq … 667 … 4.5
5.48 … Ecuador … 4,354 … 11.8
5.47 … Mexico … 2,374 … 16.7
5.42 … Burkina Faso … 273 … 10.6
5.26 … Brazil … 17,018 … 11.5
5.02 … Dominican Republic … 2,151 … 11.1
4.98 … Philippines … 3,749 … 5.5
4.77 … Romania … 4,307 … 10.2
4.52 … North Macedonia … 596 … 7.7
4.45 … Greece … 1,599 … 4.4
4.29 … Andorra … 500 … 3.8
4.21 … Denmark … 3,662 … 6.4
4.17 … Argentina … 1,450 … 6.8
4.08 … Bosnia and Herzegovina … 722 … 7.5
4.07 … China … 1,160 … 0.0
4.00 … Ireland … 6,286 … 8.0
3.94 … Switzerland … 12,503 … 6.2
3.89 … Tunisia … 593 … 2.5
3.88 … Bulgaria … 546 … 4.6
3.83 … Slovenia … 953 … 3.5
3.56 … USA … 426,307 … 7.8
3.36 … India … 5,879 … 13.8
3.26 … Lebanon … 496 … 1.2
3.12 … Poland … 5,117 … 7.2
3.10 … Colombia … 1,980 … 8.5
3.10 … Afghanistan … 437 … 9.2
3.01 … Ukraine … 1,790 … 12.5
2.93 … Portugal … 13,342 … 6.1
2.91 … Cuba … 472 … 12.3
2.68 … Niger … 359 … 18.9
2.63 … Peru … 3,680 … 24.8
Many countries in that list have high active cases and up to, or else above +10% new active cases. Their isolation is not strict enough (plus lag) so the country can not begin to recover until its isolation drops much further.
So what percentage of new active cases do they need to get down to, to begin recovering? The combo of reducing the spread to near 3% new cases combined with higher recovery rates turns this situation around fast.
Australia’s spreading is currently +3.2% per day, or ~100 new cases during the past 24 hrs, with 3,114 actives and 0.83% died. But Australia’s recovered was 1,352 (4 days worth) on the 6th of April, and now there’s a constant stream of new recoveries each day.
7th April = 115
8th April = 266
9th April = 174
Call it ~200 recoveries per day. Thus in 2 weeks from now most active cases will be gone. Serious/critical cases also fell from 87 to 81. Stress drops away fast, recoveries improve.
So all countries need to get their spread down to ~3% each day, so the recoveries have a chance to outpace the residual growth, while stress drops fast within the medical system, so recoveries can accelerate.
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At the local hospital they are mostly standing around , just “getting ready”.
Nobody in Recovery because everything was cancelled in preparation for “the emergency”.
Nobody going to A& E either ; no accidents because everyone is grounded ( in theory anyway).
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Hospitals (and ICU wards) all around Australia (by all reports, other than MSM) are “getting ready”.
10
We need to get new cases down to ZERO !
I am suspicious of this ‘recovered’ category.
The Chinese have noted that some ‘recovered’ persons get ill ahain and shed the virus infetcing others.
11
That will be the ones with compromised immune systems. There is no long term answer for that; if the immune system is gone , you’ll get anything that’s going.
00
Whats the score on the ordinary flu this season? And people dying/crippled from corona anxiety, loss of their entire life, homes, farms and so on.
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Farms dont have it so bad. We are often in social isolation anyway. I grant the fruit farmers are probably having problems with picking. But If I didnt turn on the tele I would not know there was a problem, other than the wool market has dropped a fair bit with uncertainty. So for once it is not so bad for farmers. I will know when China really is OK and back to business because the wool market will pick up. We are not out of the drought properly yet and still waiting on more rain in lots of areas. But the panic buying of food has been great for meat and other farm produce prices. I am having a real positive outlook this winter as I have got a serious flu or pneumonia every year for the last 4 years, mostly from staff coming on sick. I am really looking forward to not getting the “usual” flu and being sick for 4 months at least this year. I really hope that humans can crack the treatment of viruses and flu with this pandemic, its about time.
20
“Britain, … remains in thrall to its stolid, sclerotic, overcautious, unimaginative, rules-bound public health bureaucracy. In normal times, this bureaucracy was merely inefficient, wasteful, and a massive drain on the taxpayer.”
Sounds like the Australian health system. But its free so who’s complaining.
30
The Who, UN, and every other world agency /aid group, is only possible because we have surplus ‘wealth’.
The isolation is destroying ‘wealth’. Every country will have less ‘wealth’ and jobs.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52211206
“By the time the pandemic is over half of the world’s population of 7.8 billion people could be living in poverty. About 40% of the new poor could be concentrated in East Asia and the Pacific, with about one third in both Sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia.”
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Scare mongering !
Designed to distract our attention
Off the pandemic !
15
Bill , you left out the irony tag.
The pandemic is scare-mongering, designed to distract attention from the impoverishment of billions, as if they weren’t poor enough already. So you know what that means, aye?
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There are some authors who are not in that demographic farmerbraun, so that they already have all the necessities, zinc stockpiles, in their armchair war rooms.
01
‘What we are looking for is any evidence of a decline in the atmospheric CO2 content that would be strong enough to attribute to the economic downturn. As can be seen, the latest CO2 data show a slight downturn, but it’s not yet out of the ordinary compare to previous month-to-month downturns.’
Roy Spencer (wuwt)
30
For those with a taste for conspiracy theory I suggest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grtV811cURU
It is Sargon of Akkad (who looks remakably healthy for someone 4,300 years old – unless of course it is assumed name) who gets dropped often by youtube for being too right wing, interviewing Piers Corbyn (brother of JC) who, even though he is a climate sceptic, doesn’t get called right wing (except by absolute loonies).
The relevant part I want to draw attention to is the first 4 minutes. Bear in mind that this interview was in the last week of October 2019.
Big excuse for spending huge amounts of money to change the economy?
00
“Trump threatens funds for WHO”
Discussions to follow.
Spending in the USA is usually initiated in the House of Representatives. Although presidents have asked for “line item” vetoes I don’t recall that being allowed. While an administration makes a budget, it usually is said to be dead on arrival at the House.
[I don’t follow such issues much, so someone may/can/will correct me.]
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Kelly wants to stop discussion of COVID 19 cures
“Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly has warned against believing claims a cure for coronavirus has been found, saying it is illegal to pedal such misinformation.”
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/coronavirus-updates-live-uk-prime-minister-boris-johnson-out-of-intensive-care-global-death-toll-nears-90-000-20200410-p54is2.html
Funny I don’t think the parliament has passed any laws banning discussion of possible cures.
maybe he is getting a big head and thinks he can make the law all by himself !
Pretty dopey !
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Typical doctor. Medicine is indeed a knowledge monopoly. To that, I say: hush, Dr. Kelly, hush.
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Another instance of WHO incompetence:
“the World Health Organisation currently has advice on its website, () dated February 29, 2020, stating WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks. In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions.”
https://www.traveller.com.au/coronavirus-and-travel-how-we-will-know-when-its-ok-to-travel-again-h1n91q
But in the mean time lots of countries have closed their borders and stopped the spread of this vile bit of RNA chemistry !
So the WHO’s advice is plain junk !
If this is the best the WHO can do, it must be defunded by any nation with an ounce of common sense, including Australia
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Agreed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgXWqFUs8c4
“COVID-19: WHO Benefits? And Epidemiology Lesson”
00
Can we stop doing these things already:
1. Idolizing doctors (they are technicians, and should be treated as such; the same goes for their opinions);
2. Wishing for ‘socialised medicine’;
3. Pretending that medicine is science-based. Stop the cheerleading.
90
1. Doctors are technicians.
As are photographers, and I would tend to accept an opinion in their area of expertise, as I would that of a doctor.
However, had I reservations, I would seek to confirm or refute any opinion through due diligence.
2. Socialised Medicine
The UK National Health System is there to provide care, free at the point of delivery.
That it does, and the few times that I and my family have made use of it, it has generally served us well. (Two naff hospital experiences and two naff GP experiences in 70 odd years ain’t too bad.)
The UK Private Sector is still there for you.
3. Medicine is not Science Based.
But that is merely your opinion as a Photography “Technician”!
As an ex IT “Technician”, I disagree.
Procedures and Medications may be introduced because they have been found to be effective. Side effects only being discovered as the number of persons treated increases.
From my time as a Pharmacy “Technician”:
Thalidomide in the late 1950s, withdrawn early 1960s when the birth defects became apparent.
Now, with a list of side-effects as long as the “Gettysburg Oration” (all discovered by Medical Science), the damned stuff is still being prescribed. With the blessings of the WHO (and a Health Warning – of course).
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Fred Streeter: regarding your comment about Thalidomide – as a former registered nurse and later medical laboratory scientist, I can tell you that this drug has proven use as an immunomodulator in a number of nasty illnesses – for example myeloma, which is a cancer of antibody-producing cells, ulcerative epithelial disorders such as Behçet’s disease, and graft-versus-host disease in transplant patients. It has proven to be effective when other options have not, and its use is not undertaken lightly.
10
Hi, Carbon
Sporadic posting due to fine weather, sparse population, hence outside and not receiving/transmitting any Coronaviruses (or the thoughts of Chairman Fred).
I feel strongly about Thalidomide because I used to dispense Distaval quite frequently.
When the reason for its withdrawal was announced, I was deeply upset (teenagers, eh?) that I may have been a link in the chain of events leading to the birth of a deformed child.
I accept that it is effective in addressing leprosy, etc. But labelled with a large cross over the image of a pregnant woman? Is it any wonder that an illiterate person might assume it to be a contraceptive? (It may be that is why condoms were often dispensed with by men who were taking the tablets.)
Quotes:
Thalidomide is contraindicated in pregnant females because of its adverse teratogenic side effects.
Prolonged administration of thalidomide can cause peripheral neuropathy, drowsiness and fatigue.
In addition, venous thrombosis, neutropenia and cardiovascular side effects have also been reported in clinical practice.
Therefore, baseline electrophysiological examinations, coagulation function, absolute neutrophil count, and cardiac function should be monitored carefully during thalidomide treatment.
Are the poor of the world so monitored?
Anyhow, I hope you have had, and continue to have, a pleasant extended weekend.
00
One thing missing from the sensationalist press which makes its money from bad news, is the idea that the deaths follow the infection by two weeks. You catch the virus but do not know it for a week. They you think you will be fine. Then you end up in intensive care, like Boris.
So when the Australian headlines that 800 people died today in New York, it is disheartening. What they need to track are new infections, not old ones which lag by two weeks. Isolation is working incredibly well around the world and Sweden will give up soon, I hope. Our National figures are 95,85,77 (so far). The rate is slowing but we are under 100 new infections. And these infections happened a week ago.
100 new infections in Australian per day means that likely only twenty will end up in hospital and only 1-2 will die. And soon only 50 a day, 7 people die per week.
THe real excitement is total elimination of this virus, unless some nutjob of a politician opens the doors. As they did with the Ruby Princess. How did that work out?
80
🙂 🙂
00
And how tough are you?
4-8 The most closely related coronavirus is in a Chinese horseshoe bat, the researchers found. But the new virus has gained some unique mutations since splitting off from that bat virus decades ago.
Dr. Boni (of Penn State U.) said that ancestral virus probably gave rise to a number of strains that infected horseshoe bats, and perhaps sometimes other animals.
“Very likely there’s a vast unsampled diversity,” he said.
Copying mistakes aren’t the only way for new viruses to arise. Sometimes two kinds of coronaviruses will infect the same cell. Their genetic material gets mixed up in new viruses.
It’s entirely possible, Dr. Boni said, in the past 10 or 20 years, a hybrid virus arose in some horseshoe bat that was well-suited to infect humans, too. Later, that virus somehow managed to cross the species barrier. “Once in a while one of these viruses wins the lottery,” he said. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/science/new-york-coronavirus-cases-europe-genomes.html
20
Except that the Chinese Army Wuhan Institute of VIrology announced in a paper in 2017 that they had succeeded in making the Horseshoe bat infective to humans by adding parts of the Aids virus. And guess what? This ‘new’ virus is exactly that. Of course it could be entirely coincidental. And the CHinese say it cannot be theirs. They precautions are too strict. And pigs will fly.
As a matter of interest, I have read that the ‘wet’ market for live bats in Wuhan does not exist. But there is clearly some connection with Wuhan. I wonder what that could be?
21
And then there’s the fact that they tried to cover it up. Even to the point where WHO praised their efforts and attacked the US for shutting the doors.
Then the new story that the virus was a creation of the US army and released in Wuhan by visiting US army. Of course. So the Chinese Government now wants us to think the virus came from America
and they are victims? And we can fully expect the director of WHO to agree. As he does with the complete lack of the infection in North Korea.
You have to wonder how many hundreds of thousands of lives and world economic cost could have been avoided if the Chinese Government and their appointee in WHO had told the truth in the first place.
20
And WHO defends North Korea’s claim that it has no Wuhan virus.
Donald Trump is right. The truth and WHO are on different trains.
90
Tdef,
You opine
“Donald Trump is right. The truth and WHO are on different trains.”
I agree
It seems not true to some. The said Some differ in opinion to you and I.
Sadly if you listen or watch any media from the ABC you will be informed that Trump is never right.
and that the UN and its associated Agencies are infallible.
It is interesting that a quote from the link you supplied states:
“This would suggest North Korea’s strategy for achieving zero confirmed coronavirus cases is largely based on not testing anyone, so that no cases are ever confirmed.”
Is that possibility ever investigated by our tax payer funded journalists, whom claim to be unbiased world class investigative reporters?
50
so what about the Bandwagon? Solomon has been retired off in the face of this Brave New World. Why do we have historians, are they all re-writing history? ‘Never Look Back‘ is the mantra of the successful (?) progressive liberals, etc. Trying to pick your way through all the routes – There is no Method to their Madness: As I have said before: “The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.” -what did Ralph Waldo Emerson mean by this? eg @ https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/346365-as-to-methods-there-may-be-a-million-and-then and other sites.
Modern Society is FULL of METHODS and gave up on Principles a long time ago – Time to regain some then? and which ones? Easter -a time for reflection perhaps?
From the BBC Radio one morning recently: early Morning’s BBC Radio4 after the World Service’s overnight stint : Start of day programme :- Thought / Prayer for the Day …… referring to the Corona Crisis and revealing the Best and Worst in us got me thinking whilst still in the realms of 1/2 wAkeness.
Yes all those people around the world reaching out to HELP in times of stress shows the Good in us, despite being told to stay home, etc. Hmm, OK sofar. Then the preacher went on to castigate those of us who DO NOT obey the commands of Government – ‘Stay at home / Lockdown’ then I wOke up! What the~~~~!
This is NOT the first time that religious folk have stood up and pontificated about that which they know nothing (?) – or please forgive me ,for I am wrong. What is a dutiful person supposed to do in this mixed up world?
I have been educated and been an educator, continue to be frustrated with the standard of education, yet stand accused of frustrating the progress of government / society…. As a Professional Engineer, believing in the Creed, I just HAVE to ask – WHY? Today we celebrate the Solemness of GoodFriday.
10
“Without ambition one starts nothing. Without work one finishes nothing. The prize will not be sent to you. You have to win it.
The man who knows how will always have a job. The man who also knows why will always be his boss.
As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”
Harrington Emerson
Author of “The Twelve Principles of Efficiency”
Evidently a disciple of Mammon.
00
Slightly OT.
Statistics, useful tool or?????
Let me look at some recent statistics and you can judge for your self.
Consider the COVID-19 outbreak in Northern Italy namely Lombardy and Veneto, neighboring regions, Autonomous Medical Regions!
The reporting procedures was mandated by the Italian Government so should be considered to have delivered the same relevant data, people tested, people infected, death rates, etc.
The recorded data had the same column headings yet the numbers therein are Vastly different!
Why is this and how do those statistics provide the Italian Government with meaningful advice to cause severe damage to their economy.
Let us consider the factors behind those disparate numbers.
In Lombardy if you had symptoms and consulted a Doctor, it was policy to put you in hospital. In Veneto you were told to go home and self isolate. these two diametric directives drove the reported hospital levels into a seriously skewed distribution!
The same can then be reasoned out about confirmed cause of death. In Lombardy if you died in hospital having been admitted because you had symptoms the cause of death was recorded as COVID-19, thus the large numbers in Lombardy, low numbers in Veneto. Skewed data delivering advice to the Italian government.
Even worse is the hidden effect of hospitalization!
In Lombardy if hospitalized you were in an environment with other sick people as were the health workers, cross infection was the result which again skews the infection rate and numbers.
Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.
10
Thanks.
00
Slithers, thanks for posting this info. Posted on exactly the same a few days ago. I live (much of the year) across the border from Italy in Switzerland and am pretty familiar with Italian healthcare.
I think what is being missed in the Veneto vs. Lombardy results is the fact that Lombardy has big modern hospitals that are supposedly the best in Italy; Veneto older, smaller hospitals. The underlying assumption is that bigger hospitals are better for patient outcomes. They may well be for some diseases, for research, etc. What i’ve noticed however throughout this pandemic episode, is the inability for larger institutions and bureaucracies to respond in a timely and effective manner to the public health crisis. They are by nature slow and have great inertia.
At the end of this pandemic i think we’ll be questioning to what extent the case fatality rate differential between hospitals (and countries) is a function of incompetent, bureaucratic health systems above all other factors.
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Slithers, thanks for posting this info. Posted on exactly the same a few days ago. I live (much of the year) across the border from Italy in Switzerland and am pretty familiar with Italian healthcare.
I think what is being missed in the Veneto vs. Lombardy results is the fact that Lombardy has big modern hospitals that are supposedly the best in Italy; Veneto older, smaller hospitals. The underlying assumption is that bigger hospitals are better for patient outcomes. They may well be for some diseases, for research, etc. What i’ve noticed however throughout this pandemic episode, is the inability for larger institutions and bureaucracies to respond in a timely and effective manner to the public health crisis. They are by nature slow and have great inertia.
At the end of this pandemic i think we’ll be questioning to what extent the case fatality rate differential between hospitals (and countries) is a function of incompetent, bureaucratic health systems above all other factors.
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Not to mention the fact that “incompetent, bureaucratic health systems” are extremely expensive.
And it appears that in order to operate with some degree of plausible deniability , these same systems require that half the population be declared non-essential and be placed on welfare, which will inevitably lead to bankruptcy and destitution.
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A point about the ‘curves’ as in this site. The guidelines underneath are to indicate not a a line to follow but a slope. You want zero slope, infinite time to double and Australia is nearly there, second in fact from what I can see of countries bigger than a tiny island. Comparable to Norway and Sweden, our slope is zero and Sweden is at doubling every 5 days.
The exponential curve is a rocket, of the sort Michael Mann made up. e+kt. A log graph gives you y=kt so the slope over time is k. A true exponential is a straight line and Sweden is on one, albeit slower than the US.
I was disappointed yesterday to see our infections jump back over 100 per day. A cell must have appeared and that is often 20 people one you track back from the primary carrier. People get really sick two weeks after infection by which time they have given it to 20 family and friends and strangers. So we can expect jumps like this, but hopefully we head back towards zero today. The Easter get away may distribute it to country areas though, starting more cells.
After this the area to watch is that of health workers and the clearly infected. The only way it gets into aged care homes is with children who break the rules. That is almost unbelievable. What sort of caring it that?
And then when our cases drop to single digits, we need to plan to free the people for work, but first in regions only. And avoid public transport. I am surprised few people use cheap disposable gloves though.
At the airports, we have to test everyone who comes in. Exotic Australia will become the worlds #1 tourist destination. Perhaps if our government spent some money on promoting Australia to Australians, we could keep some of those 1 Million people a month who go overseas at home. And open Ayers Rock for tourists. Otherwise it is just a useless rock, the tip of a mountain. And I doubt the tourists are damaging it by walking on it.
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I also just noticed that the Australian total numbers of confirmed cases dropped from 5956 to 5754 on Australia’s line, a drop of 202 people in a day. That means they are removing ‘cured’ people! This means the curve can start to head downwards. 200 gone and 100 new, that’s a drop. It will be interesting on a log curve if we start to head down on a straight line e-kt, exponential decay. And the slope of that line, days to halve.
And if 200 people a day are being cured and 100 a day are new, that difference means the drop in really ill people is 20% or 10 a day and critically ill people, 5 a day. It’s worth the boredom, which is the worst thing most people are suffering.
I am hoping the world and Australians start to reassess this vast international jaunt business. And to see what a holiday destination Australia is. If you ask a Frenchman to name the most exotic place in the world, they would say Australia. We miss the crowds and the history and the grand buildings and the complexity and variety. The French come to get away from all that to exotic landscapes, exotic animals, wide empty beaches and sunshine even in winter and a clean new place. We do not appreciate what we have.
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And almost defying logic and morality, an architect of ObamaCare and special adviser to the director-general of the World Health Organization has said living past 75 is ‘too long’.
‘He once wrote a piece titled, “Why I Hope to Die at 75.” In the 2014 Atlantic article, Emanuel made clear that he was serious about his wish to die at 75 and even argued that “living too long is also a loss.”
“It transforms how people experience us, relate to us, and, most important, remember us. We are no longer remembered as vibrant and engaged but as feeble, ineffectual, even pathetic.
Emanuel posited that “for many reasons, 75 is a pretty good age to aim to stop.”
His argument for death at 75 is particularly instructive now that he’s joined 77-year-old Biden’s campaign.
And if Biden is elected, by nearly a decade he will be the oldest President ever elected and two decades older than most.
Advised by a man who thinks bumping off people over 75 would be a real positive, almost necessary. What’s next, the disabled, the poor, gypsies, political opponents, Jews? And when will it change to 65, to retirees, people who are not actively contributing to productivity?
You have to think these apologists for the total failure of WHO do not value human life as most people would. They would be more at home in 1930s Germany or 1920s Russia.
We in Australia have an opportunity to shut our doors to any more new viruses from other countries. It should be our aim, to stop any new virus before it runs loose in our society, not after. And people over 75 are not disposable.
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“as feeble, ineffectual, even pathetic.”
Sort of like Obama-Care ?
Seems this guy probably reached the “feeble, ineffectual, even pathetic” stage, at birth.
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And as a political doctor, what must he have thought of Elizabeth Warren (70), Bernie Sanders(78), Joe Biden (77) who were the leading contenders for the Democratic nomination? You get the feeling that the Elites who vote Democrat are the Eloi of North America living off the hard work of the Morlocks, Hillary’s deplorables. And the 75 absolute age limit only applies to the really deplorables who are too old to contribute to productivity to support the lifestyle of Hollywood and Silicon Valley and friends. Like Cher (73), Barbara Streisand (77), Bette Middler (74) as they abuse Donald Trump. Being an elite means not having to worry about medical costs, like facelifts.
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The USA has just overtaken Italy as the country with the greatest number of coronavirus deaths, while China has been able to reopen Wuhan.
Now is not the right time to be uncritically citing Breitbart in defence of the retard in the White House.
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