The most popular drug with doctors all over the world will seemingly now not even be allowed in the US for Covid related treatment:
HCQ No Longer Approved Even a Little for COVID-19
Molly Walker, MedPage
The FDA rescinded its emergency use authorization (EUA) of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) to treat COVID-19 patients, citing concerns about efficacy and risks associated with its use, and saying the drug no longer meets the criteria for an EUA, the agency said on Monday.
Moreover, the FDA now says the benefits of the drug “no longer outweigh the potential risks,” citing the serious cardiac adverse events associated with the drug.
Comments underneath reveal just how contested this will be.
It’s a strange situation where patients in many poorer nations are being offered drugs that patients won’t be able to get in the richest nation in the world:
Substantial fractions of physicians treating Covid-19 patients in Europe and elsewhere report use of HCQ+AZ: 72% in Spain, 49% in Italy, 41% in Brazil, 39% in Mexico, 28% in France, 23% in the US, 17% in Germany, 16% in Canada, 13% in the UK (45), much of the non-US use in outpatients.
Yet strangely, despite the thousands of people using HCQ, there are not many (or any) ideal trials. Most are non-randomized, but the few that are, usually started too late, or are not combined with zinc or the right antibiotic.
A few weeks ago, a Yale expert made the case of why the US should be using HCQ as early as possible. He calculates that at the current death rate, by the time the results of the right trial is known 180,000 people will have died.” In this context, we cannot afford the luxury of perfect knowledge…”
Prof Harvey Risch insists HCQ needs to be tried in patients before they get to hospital
Harvey Risch is a Professor of Epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health. He compares the two top treatments in the USA — the anti-malarial drug HCQ (Hydroxycholorquine) and the anti-Ebola drug — Remdesivir. In a 29 page review he concludes that with the US reopening, and 10,000 people dying each week, they don’t have time to wait for the randomized controlled trials — but that they urgently need a drug that can reduce the rate of hospitalization, and there is already enough data to warrant the use of HCQ + AZ (Azithromycin) and Zinc.
US officials are recommending Remdesivir but there is no randomized controlled trial on that yet either for outpatient use. Instead, it’s a newer drug with mainly lab and animal research. HCQ, on the other hand, is an old cheap drug with very low and well-known risks. It’s being used in poorer countries all over the world, and many doctors on the frontline are convinced it helps, even though there are not yet the proper studies to show whether it does or not.
There are five trials on the ClinicalTrials.gov database for HCQ and Az in the outpatient setting. Risch discusses all of them.
One French study is small, but shows a 50 fold benefit when started early, and only (!) a 25 fold benefit when waiting until it has progressed to the lower respiratory tract.There was a seven-fold benefit from taking the antibotic (AZ) at the same time. He works through all the criticisms below, pointing out that even though the study is small, the magnitude of the effect is so large, it is still obvious the combination is beneficial.
This point has been argued forcefully by the French doctors (20). The first study of HCQ+AZ (24) was controlled but not randomized or blinded, and involved 42 patients in Marseilles, France. This study showed a 50-fold benefit of HCQ+AZ vs standard-of-care, with P-value=.0007. In the study, six patients progressed, stopped medication use and left the trial before the day-6 planned outcome measure of swabsampled nasopharyngeal viral clearance. Reanalysis of the raw study data elsewhere (25) and by myself shows that including these six patients does not much change the 50-fold benefit. What does change the magnitude of benefit is presentation with asymptomatic or upper respiratory tract infection, vs lower respiratory-tract infection, the latter cutting the efficacy in half, 25-fold vs standard-of-care. This shows that the sooner these medications are used, the better their effectiveness, as would be expected for viral early respiratory disease. The average start date of medication use in this study was day-4 of symptoms. This study has been criticized on various grounds that are not germane to the science, but the most salient criticism is the lack of randomization into the control and treatment groups. This is a valid general scientific criticism, but does not represent epidemiologic experience in this instance. If the study had shown a 2-fold or perhaps 3-fold benefit, that magnitude of result could be postulated to have occurred because of subject-group differences from lack of randomization. However, the 25-fold or 50-fold benefit found in this study is not amenable to lack of randomization as the sole reason for such a huge magnitude of benefit. Further, the study showed a significant, 7-fold benefit of taking HCQ+AZ over HCQ alone, P-value=.035, which cannot be explained by differential characteristics of the controls, since it compares one treatment group to the other, and the treated subjects who received AZ had more progressed pneumonia than the treated subjects receiving HCQ alone, which should otherwise have led to worse outcomes. The study has also been described as “small,” but that criticism only applies to studies not finding statistical significance… page 8 ,9
A second study of the Marseilles group (27) involved 1061 patients tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 and treated with HCQ+AZ for at least 3 days and followed for at least 9 days. The authors state “No cardiac toxicity was observed.” Good clinical outcome and virological cure were seen in 973 patients (92%). Five patients died, and the remainder were in various stages of recovery.
In Brazil, 412 patients were treated with HCQ plus deoxycycline (a different antibiotic). Those treated before day 7 had about one third the chance of ending up in hospital, as those did who started treatment later. (29)
Adding zinc to the combination cut mortality in half again:
HCQ+AZ has been standard-of-care treatment at the four New York University hospitals, where a recent study showed that adding zinc sulfate to this regimen significantly cut both intubation and mortality risks by almost half (46).
As far as side effects go, the FDA FAERS database (34) contains 1064 adverse events for HCQ, including 200 deaths, but this goes back the full 50 years of use involving millions of patients. Many of these patients were not using HCQ for five days (as Covid patients are) they were using it for months on end.
Doctors are very well aware of the long QT problem with hearts, and know which people HCQ is not suited too.
For those interested in this debate, his conclusions make for interesting reading. See the PDF.
h/t Ian B,David B, Lance, Lucky.
REFERENCES (In the Prof Reisch of Yale paper).
Risch, H. (2020) American Journal of Epidemiology, kwaa093, https://doi.org/10.1093/aje/kwaa093 PDF
(20) Guerin V, Lardenois T, Levy P, et al. Covid-19: Etude rétrospective chez 88 sujets avec 3 approches thérapeutiques différentes. April 30, 2020. .
(24) Gautret P, Lagier J-C, Parola P, et al. Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID‐ 19: results of an open‐ label non‐ randomized clinical trial. Int J Antimicrob Agent 2020 Mar 17.
(27) Million M, Lagier J-C, Gautret P, et al. Early treatment of 1061 COVID-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, Marseille, France. April 20, 2020.
(29) Barbosa Esper R, Souza da Silva R, Oikawa FTC, et al. Empirical treatment with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for suspected cases of COVID-19 followed-up by telemedicine. April 15, 2020.
(45) Sermo. Breaking Results: Sermo’s COVID-19 Real Time Barometer Study. Wave I. .
(46) Carlucci PM, Ahuja T, Petrilli C, et al. Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin plus zinc vs hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin alone: outcomes in hospitalized COVID-19 patients. Preprints. 2020. (https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036). Accessed May 8, 2020.
(47) Derwand R, Scholz M. Does zinc supplementation enhance the clinical efficacy of chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine to win todays battle against COVID-19? Med Hypotheses 2020, in press. (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.mehy.2020.109815). Accessed May 7, 2020.
Lot’s of confusion about this, but this should help.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1272583511975723008.html
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Jim Barker – The interpretation placed on the article you cite, namely that the FDA decision makes HCQ more available not less, is at variance with the FDA’s own statement that the drug’s benefits no longer outweigh the potential risks. I need to read more before I can move away from my opinion that dark forces are happy to kill any number of people for their own nefarious ends. But I still also need to see more information before I can know whether the dark forces are big pharma, ie. the likes of Gilead, or political, ie. Trump haters, or some other group – or all three. One thing is certain: the HCQ situation is exposed to some very unscientific forces.
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They will oppose anything Donald Trump says. The anti HCQ is purely political.
260
Looks like Trump Derangement Syndrome now has some unintentional side effects…how incredibly sad! 🙁
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Jest the facts, meme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnBmbsDan5s
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I believe this is a political stunt by Trump hating bureaucrats. I the US right now, EVERYTHING is being weaponised for politics by the left becauseTrump, because elections loom inNovember. NBCnews is asking Google to shut down ads at the Federalist, a modest but effective info online mag for conservatives. A man on Twitter with 300k followers is saying conservative must be shut dow, shut up because too dangerous, then kept in re-education camps.
I read last night that HQC is available in hospitals and prescribed by private practice doctors. There might be some “emergency use” details I don’t know about. Or else, as I wrote, political bureaucrats want to sound threatening. But the drug remains available for off label use, just as done with many other therapies.
And I’m in NZ, and I want a daily dose for prophylactic once travel reopens to you folks in Australia! So I’m alive to this topic because it is important to me until I can score 300 tabs…capiche?
120
It is more than politics, although that is a significant part of it. It is as usual all about money –the vaccine companies (and Bill Gates) do not want a cheap alternative to any possible vaccine.
The big data collection by the Italians, should be enough to convince most with an open mind. That is, when they collected data on 65,000 people who routinely took HQC for lupus or arthritis and found less than 20 had been affected by the virus.
Like you Orson, I would be at the head of the queue to get it to use as a prophylactic, prior to any travel in the future and also if I tested positive I would take it immediately (combined with zinc).
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Can you add a reference for that Ross
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I was referring to this Peter
https://www.unz.com/isteve/in-italy-practically-nobody-who-takes-hydroxychloroquine-for-lupus-or-rheumatoid-arthritis-got-cv/
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The EUA usage was for late stage disease and it’s not particularly useful for that, nor was it recomended to be combined with zinc. But, the report also says that HCQ is an FDA approved drug and goes on to say,
“FDA approved products may be prescribed by physicians for off-label uses if they determine it is appropriate for treating their patients, including during COVID.”
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Trump says on air that this makes HCQ more available, not less. IE’can now be used on outpatients
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This image may show some truth as well. Country case fatality rate and HCQ use
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Guess I don’t know how to post images.
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Have you got a link Jim?
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The picture is in this twitter link.
https://twitter.com/niro60487270/status/1272636205142704129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1272636205142704129&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwqth.wordpress.com%2F2020%2F06%2F16%2Fdear-kag-20200616-open-thread%2F
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Thanks.
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thanks for that. I had downloaded it yesterday, but could not find it today, so made a bunch of copies and gave them to fellow doctors, patients / friends. A picture is worth a thousand words, unless they continue to refuse to open their eyes…..
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Jo, could you enlarge gummybear’s bar graph and display it prominently on your site? it is sooooo beautiful…
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Here’s an enlarged version
https://i.postimg.cc/02VcNH6q/HCQ-use.jpg
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That twitter picture has France at the no HCQ use end of the chart. Jo’s post above refers to
Also
Plus other references to use or studies in France.
Is the picture in twitter a true representation?
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The therapeutic use of Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromycin and Zinc given in the early stage of symptoms for Covid 19 has been shown to be efficacious by frontline
doctors in New York ,France and Brazil .What is not liked about about saving lives way this is because of two main vested interests reasons.These interests are (A) Physological –
Trump haters (suffering from acute TDS) and (B) Follow the money -no big Pharma is not going to make a pile of money out of an old now non patented and effective anti malarial
drug.However they will make stacks of cash out of their therapeutic drugs and a vaccine ( I am not saying that these two approaches will not save lives but they are eventually
the gift cash cow that goes on giving)
So in this light the “put down” incomplete studies ie showing Hydoxychloroquine to be ineffective as far as I have seen -include studies of small sample size and studies
of its use in late stage Covid 19 disease given as a Hail Mary drug on patients ICU beds.
Cheers Mike Reed
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The two interests you highlighted are real and undoubtedly have a large influence in the whole push against the widespread use of the drug. If it can be proven in a court of law then those holding back the drug could be found guilty of several crimes and end up in prison. Whether it can be proven in a court of law is uncertain but it would be well worth a try at least to flush out the truth. It worked for the Chamberlain case in the end so courts sometimes do work – not always though.
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Peter,
Not in the courts in the USA.
They are political institutions.
They are generally controlled by the Trump hating left (with the exception of the Supreme Court).
That control comes as a result of the left’s long march through the institutions – as strategized by the German Communist activist Rudi Dutschke around 1967. The strategy has been rolled out right across the Western democracies – probably nowhere more successfully than in the USA.
And, still the Conservatives sleep.
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Understood. I suppose the good “die young” and the bad take their place.
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Just reposting an interview by Steve Bannon and Dr Zelenko on Dr Zelenko’s use of HCQ + zinc at Sinai hospital. This is not the only study with similar results.
https://youtu.be/QHFNJpRMlpg?t=1193
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A more detailed interview with Dr Zelenko.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=interview+with+dr+zelenko&docid=608014369359397567&mid=CE3AC626A7A1DA0FE112CE3AC626A7A1DA0FE112&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
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Dr Zelenko gives personal update.
https://youtu.be/wBLI4mmEcW4
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TedM’s Dr Zev Zelenko vid.
27 March 2020 interview date.
Quick summary:
At that point he’d treated 699 patients with no deaths and no intubations, but four (4) admitted with pneumonia and are on antibiotics (they’ll recover).
cf the world at that point:
4.5% die
USA 1.5% die
Ted: it would be nice if you’d tell us what the bloody hell these vids are about.
Have you watched them?
Are you incapable of doing a summary?
Yes. I know this stuff backwards. But not everybody does.
You do Zev Zelenko a dis-service by omitting your comments and summary.
10
Moshe Frank needs to prepare himself before he interviews.
Dr Zelenko gets top marks for putting up with somebody that is a hopeless interviewer.
Why would Zev Zelenko even go there?
10
Boris is onto something.
‘The $9 anti-inflammatory drug improved survival in patients with COVID-19, British scientists say, in what PM Boris Johnson described as the “biggest breakthrough yet”. SMH
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Yep… bucks vs 100s for expensive antivirals….
Its all about the benjamins ….
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Some Doctors are pushing back.
https://aapsonline.org/hcqsuit/
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False reporting? Rescinding the EUA does NOT meant that HCQ cannot be used for early treatment of COVID-19 patients. It means that the supply of the drug stuck in the stockpile is now free from the EUA’s retractions, once it is released into the consumer supply chain.
The FDA revoked its emergency use only restriction. This means hydroxychloroquine can now be used for any purpose prescribed by a doctor, just like any approved drug.
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G’day Robber,
These words, from the opening paragraph in your link sound pretty definite to me:
” Additionally, in light of ongoing serious cardiac adverse events and other potential serious side effects, the known and potential benefits of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine no longer outweigh the known and potential risks for the authorized use. ”
And, if I were a doctor and confronted those words without knowing they were based on a withdrawn, unreliable paper, I’d probably rethink any use of hcq. I certainly don’t read them as a recommendation to use it at all, let alone use it in the Dr Zelenko advocates.
I wish your interpretation was correct. Can you tell me which words support your view?
Cheers
Dave B
30
Further info from the FDA finding: Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are both FDA-approved to treat or prevent malaria. Hydroxychloroquine is also approved to treat autoimmune conditions such as chronic discoid lupus erythematosus, systemic lupus erythematosus in adults, and rheumatoid arthritis. Both drugs have been prescribed for years to help patients with these debilitating, or even deadly, diseases, and FDA has determined that these drugs are safe and effective when used for these diseases in accordance with their FDA-approved labeling. Of note, FDA approved products may be prescribed by physicians for off-label uses if they determine it is appropriate for treating their patients, including during COVID.
10
Thanks Robber,
I’d missed the last sentence.
Cheers
Dave B
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So now we’ve got Dexamethasone the life saving drug that’s been here all the time.
Randomised tests from UK claim a major breakthrough. Boris is basking in glory.
Hope it works as they claim . .
GeoffW
30
I posted the link to the BBC article on unthreaded. It’s only useful for seriously ill people, it saves – they said – 1 in 8 to 1 in 25 depending if just on oxygen or ventilated, by the news this evening it was saving one third. Hmmmm! So it’s somewhere between hardly worth it to pretty useful. Hopefully someone can find a formal report and post a link.
31
Dex is a steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. Of course it’s going to help in cases where cascading inflammation causes death. You could probably also give chemotherapy to knock down the immune system a bit and prevent overzealous immune responses. I’m not sure that’s totally a good thing though.
10
Below is the BBC link :
‘Dexamethasone is first life-saving coronavirus drug’
Apparently it does not help infected people with mild symptoms but significantly reduces the death rate and symptoms of those who are severely ill
“”There is a clear, clear benefit. The treatment is up to 10 days of dexamethasone and it costs about £5 per patient. So essentially it costs £35 to save a life. This is a drug that is globally available.”
And ” Prof Landray said, when appropriate, hospital patients should now be given it without delay, but people should not go out and buy it to take at home.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281
This may be the cure drug we have been waiting for.
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Obviously, I said the mechanism and compared it to the radiation therapy idea on unthreaded!
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There is also the Russian tweeking of a generic flu antiviral drug that a firm claims can halve a hospital stay and save over oe- third from ventilators.
I saw a post online last week at some obscure news site. Anyone else have any details? It seems to be as effective as Ivermectin was claimed to be in late April?
10
Here’s the story. Three drugs approved for use against CV19 are mentioned
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-08/Russia-registers-new-drug-to-contain-complications-caused-by-COVID-19-R9vpZzmRs4/index.html
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Can’t work. It’s cheap.
The only cure will have to be an incredibly expensive drug that will make billions for the big drug company that developed it.
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So you have to take HCQ early, like before you show symptoms, and then it works. Like snake oil.
I can understand the gullible falling for this
018
You obviously do not understand what a prophylactic is Peter.
But as others have stated above it works when given to a patient early –before hospitalisation is needed.
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Hey don’t knock snake oil, its stopped the oceans from flooding the lands and a multitude of other Planetary diseases.
21
“I can understand the gullible falling for this”
Like the anti-science GULLIBILITY of those who fall for the the CO2 warming scam..
Is that what you mean ?
60
It’s like thinking before posting….. something else of which Fitz has no experience.
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Expect a sacking at the FDA, and expansion of right to try regulations to cover this.
Once again we have an “administration” interfering with Patient/Doctor decisions on treatment. The TGA and especially the PBS do this in Australia and its probably worse than the USA. For example, if you are sick with Cancer and you have already become resistant to Abiraterone then you can’t get Enzolutimide subsidised on the PBS even though these drugs have different modes of action and you have a 10% chance of adding to your lifespan. Apparently the PBS has decided that for late stage cancer patients a 10% chance isn’t high enough for them (Even if the patient AND DOCTOR want to try it) and that those 10% of patients should “Just Die” instead.
I think in both countries the unbounded power to restrict access to lifesaving drugs needs to be wound in.
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Many drugs are made and offered by Pharmaceutical companies
And offered at exorbitant prices to those who may benefit.
Whether such drugs are available subsidised under Australia’s Medicare system
Depends on what the minister decides based on expert advice.
And those decisions are always made in a Federal budget context after negotiations with the companies who make them.
11
However Bill, it should be up to the doctor and patient to decide treatment and not the PBS.
11
How much Bitter Lemon (or Tonic Water) would I have to drink to get a effective daily dose of Quinine HCl.
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Depends how many nips of gin you pour in – oh sweet extract of juniper berry!
Go easy on the ice cubes however: you don’t want to cause catastrophic climate change or sumpfink worserer. 🙂
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I think that the Guardian and Joanne may have misinterpreted the FDA’s actions. See the update to the story on Anthony Watt’s site for clarification. It seems that physicians are not prevented from prescribing off label use.
40
The Guardian invited and supported to establish in Australia by the leader of the Turnbull Party.
Recently reported news.
20
Just saw this over at John Ray’s excellent “Dissecting Leftism” blog.
https://aapsonline.org/hydroxychloroquine-misinformation-can-be-deadly-let-patients-decide/
It gives a little perspective to the issue of either not using or mis-using HCQ.
“The U.S. death rate is nearly 20 times that of India, and 265 times the FDA’s estimated rate of HCQ-related heart problems!”
One can only hope that when the dust settles, there will be accountability.
20
Does anyone have any idea what the status of Hydoxychloroquine in Australia ?
11
No but Tom Hanks and wife were given HCQ when they were diagnosed with Covid in Queensland.
30
I think I’d be announcing to my doctor a trip to the tropics and a desire for anti malarials!
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See table of deaths per million in link I posted above in comment #13. According to the info there, Aussies are using HCQ early and prophylactically with very good results.
00
A second “trial” of HCQ is now looking very sus.
Another Highly-Touted Hydroxychloroquine Study Turns Out To Be A Joke (16 Jun)
Politicized medicine is more of a threat to humanity than Covid-19 is.
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more political science.
20
While on the topic, an interesting article today:
Hadassah doctors crack the cause of fatal corona blood clots (JPost, 16 Jun)
Unfortunately the clotting mechanism seems to be different to that for which common blood-thinning drugs are prescribed. But they identify an off-the-shelf pharmaceutical called colchicine for possible treatment of the clotting issue.
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So people dying of Wuflu cannot be treated with Hydroxycholoquine because of possible adverse cardiac side effects??? Note to USDA the people are dying anyway. I’m sure if you asked the patients they wouldn’t object!
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INTERESTING NEWS… the powerful Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) has had enough of the shenanigans of the FDA, the WHO and the anti-thump hypocrites, regarding the fight against the corona virus using hydroxychloroquine.
The AAPS has filed a law suit against the FDA.
https://principia-scientific.org/fda-aaps-in-war-over-proven-safe-cv-19-treatment/
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So you have to take HCQ early, like before you show symptoms, and then it works. Like snake oil.
I can understand the gullible falling for this
022
“Other countries, which use [Hydroxychloroquine] prophylactically or early, have dramatically lower COVID-19 death rates than the U.S., as shown in the newly updated table below for May 30, 2020. The U.S. death rate is nearly 20 times that of India.”
https://aapsonline.org/hydroxychloroquine-misinformation-can-be-deadly-let-patients-decide/
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you can not prove a negative, now can you. I had a cup of coffee, and did not get run over by a bus. ergo coffee taken early prevents death by bus
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“you can not prove a negative”
You cannot prove ANYTHING, ever.
60
http://blog.drwile.com/science-cant-prove-anything/
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My response wasn’t accepted. Whether it will appear later, I don’t know, but here goes trying again.
Here’s a link in support of your contention, and with which I agree.
00
funny how your critical attitude does not apply to climate ‘science’, which routinely relies on uncontrolled experiments and
predictionsoops projections.50
So you said at 8.28am PF. Or at least your co-commenter did. Maybe you (plural) just gave the game away.
20
Co commenter = namesake.
20
or one was in moderation. Notice that no one replies to the first one for 4 hours, AFTER the time of the second one.
13
Possibly GA but different icons different email addresses. At least three, I think four different icons over a range of threads. I haven’t kept a close track on it to see if one uses different sentence structure or vocabulary from the others, so I could be wrong.
10
I have a gmail address, which if you know how google and maths work, gives me 12! (factorial) addresses, If, for example, you register TedM on Gmail, you would have 4! addresses
07
Learn to use the same email address.
Its not difficult unless you are totally incompetent.
40
Havn’t we been here before?
so 4x3x2x1. Really? That suggests permutating the address but since you can’t rearrange the letters so how do you get 4!?
Also if you can rearrange the letters (which you can’t) Peter Fitzroy has repeated letters so would be <12!.
Are your alternate addresses just upper and lower case? In which case (haha) it is 2x2x2…n unless there is a non alphabetic character which just contribute a multiple of 1.
00
Correct
05
“Like snake oil.”
….. and climate science ?
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You already said that at 8am.
00
Nice strawman you have there, P.F. It would be a shame if someone set fire to it. But, if anyone does, be sure to let it nearly completely burn, before sprinkling a little water onto it. Then you can say, with all the pompous authority you can muster, “See, water doesn’t put out fires.”
Seriously, “early” means “early,” as in when someone is first diagnosed and the disease hasn’t totally ravaged their body yet, HCQ works very well then. You don’t wait for organ damage to occur before killing the virus, because HCQ does not heal destroyed tissue. You may be forgiven for not knowing that, but those designing the studies that failed because they were performed on advanced cases cannot be excused.
Another point on the definition of “early.” One could substitute that term for “prophylaxis,” but if one means “prophylaxis” one shouldn’t say “early.” While it would be technically correct, it’s sloppy. But to imply, as you do, P.F., that “early” ONLY means “prophylactically,” then I have to ask, what is YOUR agenda?
10
This is interesting:
As correctly reported in the Washington Post (April 02, 2o2o):
“An international poll of more than 6,000 doctors released Thursday found that the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine was the most highly rated treatment for the novel coronavirus.
The survey conducted by Sermo, a global health care polling company, of 6,227 physicians in 30 countries found that 37% of those treating COVID-19 patients rated hydroxychloroquine as the “most effective therapy” from a list of 15 options.” [2]
Principia Scientifica International.
60
The swamp fighting back, and making a fool of itself, this is TDS writ large, and will any number of US citizens at risk.
Absolutely unbelievable, even the Lancet withdrew its paper claiming the same side effects.
Like another Climate Change model/paper/catastrophism.
Watch this space!
40
This article is actually misleading:
It was the original FDA EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) for HCQ which actually put restrictions on using the National Stockpile for hospitalized patients only, by that Obama holdover, swamp creature and ‘whistle blower’ Mr. Bright, who resigned.
The restriction is now rescinded and doctors can now subscribe HCQ from this stock pile for off-lable and out-patient use.
60
Its the Gruniad, of course its misleading
40
Thanks eilert,
I am glad that you have explained that
00
i DONT GIVE A sh#t WHAT THE FDA SAYS, OR WHO, ETC…IF i GET THIS CRAP MAN-MADE DISEASE I WILL OBTAIN HCQ WITH AZITHROMYCIN AND ZINC AND TAKE DR CHRISTIAN’S DOSAGE ADVICE BEFORE 7 DAYS ELAPSES…WHATEVER THE CONSEQUENCES.
[Please don’t YELL ok? – Jo]
10
RE – Jo’s comment about “yelling.”
I can totally identify with TECHNETIUM99. Completely appropriate in getting his point across, IMO. If I’m deprived of a life saving medicine based on fake science, I’m going to do some yelling myself.
10
Dexamethasone – a cheap and powerful steroid – seems to be the treatment of choice for sick Covid patients…
10
Chiefio on FDA and HCQ
“@Ian W:
The removal of the “approval” actually lets more HCQ be used.
The “approval” in fact only approved use once hospitalized and prevented other use. Now HCQ is back under simple off label use rules as before. Any medical doctor can now prescribe it as they see fit.”
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/06/16/something-saving-covid-lives/#comment-130698
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Here are items under the heading “HXQ” in Judith Curry’s Covid discussion thread: Part IX at https://judithcurry.com/2020/06/14/covid-discussion-thread-part-ix/ :
Senegal confirms its selection of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment with preliminary study showing hospitalisation’s length of stay of 13 days without HCQ, 11 HCQ alone and 9 HCQ+Azithromycin. https://francetvinfo.fr/monde/afrique/societe-africaine/covid-19-le-senegal-confirme-l-option-de-l-hydroxychloroquine-sur-la-base-d-etudes-preliminaires_3947713.html…
France’s first coronavirus case was in December [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52526554]
Younger adults were the main source of 61 different outbreak clusters in Japan. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-2272_article
Spain: “we implemented a … treatment outside the hospital with hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin … associated with a reduction in the burden of hospital … successful in terms of the number of patients who have developed serious complications.” [https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.10.20101105v1]
Indonesia will publish a clinical study showing efficacy of combinations of various antibiotics with hydroxychloroquine or Kalestra. They have done exceptionally well against COVID-19 so far. https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-claims-five-drug-combinations-effectively-reduce-novel-coronavirus
Turkey, which uses hydroxychloroquine early for treatment of Covid-19, reports that ICU cases have dropped from 200 in April to 50 today.
[https://turkishpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/turkishpress.com/turkish-health-minister-briefs-who-on-virus-measures/?amp]
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India’s health ministry guidelines for Covid-19 treatment now say hydroxychloroquine should be used as early in the disease course as possible and should be avoided in patients with severe cases. https://newsroompost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/newsroompost.com/india/health-ministry-issues-fresh-clinical-management-protocol-for-covid-19-patients/525911.html/amp
UAE will not use hydroxychloroquine on severe cases any more, but still on mild and moderate patients. A few data points on a new promising stem cell treatment that reduced recovery time from 22 days to 6 days for serious cases. [https://gulfbusiness.com/uae-reports-603-new-cases-stops-use-of-hydroxychloroquine-for-serious-covid-19-patients/]
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Here’s a comment I posted elsewhere on the motive of the HCQ deniers:
My guess is that it is the result of Right Man Syndrome. The bigshots in public health and the media, from WHO try the CDC to the FDA to WaPo had made, I suspect, prejudgments that this was a disease that required the attention of experts like themselves, and vaccines and ventilators, (deciding it to be a lung disease like flu), and that mere “treatments” (like HFC) were beneath them—akin to mere folk medicine.
This “line” was then (I suspect) picked up by WaPo and adopted by Cuomo. Once he had taken a public position that ventilators were needed and that Trump was to blame for deaths due to their shortage, administrators of public hospitals, seeking to curry his favor and future funding, set in place a pro-venting, fatalistic, anti-HFC policy like that seen in the hospital in the video.
It’s pride at work: the bigshots don’t want to reverse course in public. (And hospital administrators presumably like the $29,000 they get per ventilated patient.)
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The FDA has set itself up for a big fall with its claim that the dangers of HCQ outweigh its benefits.
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As Craig #24 says. High dose steroids for severe inflammatory diseases have been mainstay Treatment for decades. Wasn’t it the lifesaver in the SARS outbreak. Also severe smoke inhalation, chemo cocktails, etc. etc. etc
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