It’s a molecular monster
The SARS-Cov2 virus can take over and does some pretty cool engineering. (At least in the case of monkey cells.)
The infected cells produce hairy tentacles that poke holes in nearby cells to help spread the virus.
Coronavirus tentacles with small yellow virus particles attached.
So once a virus is inside it can not only hijack the cell to make more viruses (the little yellow prickly balls in the photo) it also forces the cell to make all these hairy tentacles to push the viruses into neighboring cells. Apart from being a neat gee-whiz moment in molecular construction, this is worth knowing because it gives us more targets to aim for. (More moving parts to throw spanners at).
To that end, the team found 87 drugs that are already either FDA approved or in clinical trials that might help. And 7 of them have already shown they can inhibit the virus in both human and monkey cells.
There are some major molecular engineering battles going on
Coronaviruses are larger RNA viruses than most, so that gives the virus more tools to work with. All up we know that there are 27 SARS Cov2 proteins which are interacting with as many as 332 human proteins. In the new study the researchers studied all the human proteins that appear to be phosphorylated during infections. The proteins that slap on the phosphate groups (which phosphorylates the proteins) are called kinases. Marking a protein this way activates or deactivates the protein. It’s used in many intracellular pathways, and kinases are master switchboard controllers. So the virus is going straight to the top of the management team in a hostile takeover.
The research team found that nearly 10% of all the 500 kinases they studied were behaving differently, especially the Casein Kinase II (CK2) kinase. This gives us some idea of what kind of intracellular octopus we are dealing with.
Filopodia on Virally Infected Cells Newly Discovered Through Advanced Imaging
Interestingly, while studying the impact of SARS-CoV-2 on CK2, high resolution imaging of virally infected cells produced by the NIH/NIAID/Rocky Mountain Laboratories and University of Freiburg revealed actin-rich filopodia containing viral proteins. Human CK2 and the viral N protein were found co-localized within the filopodia, suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 hijacks CK2 and co-opts it into creating these tentacle-like protrusions that poke holes in their neighboring cells.
Conversely, other viruses including vaccinia, Ebola and Marburg take over the host cell cytoskeleton to promote egress and rapid cell-to-cell spread. However, in SARS-CoV-2 infected cells, the filopodia exhibit longer tentacles and branches, enabling more aggressive transmission than some other viral infections.
Another kinase called the p38 MAPK which may be a zinger of a target since it’s involved in activating the inflammatory cytokines (the interleukin-6 and other messengers). So we may be able to throw anti- p38/MAPK drugs at the virus which appear to both switch off the deadly inflammatory cascade as well as slow virus replication by some unknown means.
The p38/MAPK pathway responds to and controls production of potentially harmful pro-inflammatory cytokines. Several pathogenic viral infections induce a p38/MAPK signaling state that exhibits uncontrolled positive feedback regulation, leading to excessive inflammation associated with severe disease. Inhibition of p38/MAPK signaling suppressed the overproduction of inflammatory cytokines induced by several viral infections, including SARS-CoV, Dengue virus, and influenza A virus, improving survival in mice (Fu et al., 2014; Growcott et al., 2018; Jimenez-Guardeño et al., 2014). However, p38/MAPK inhibition did not directly impair the virus in these cases but, instead, the host’s immune response to the infection. In contrast, during SARS-CoV-2 infection, p38/MAPK inhibition suppressed cytokine production and impaired viral replication by a still unknown mechanism, suggesting that p38/MAPK inhibition may target multiple mechanisms related to COVID-19 pathogenesis.
Of course, the study was done in monkey cells so this may or may not be the same in human cells. And drugs that stop these kinases may have side effects, and even if they work, the virus may still be able to spread through other means. But if we even find one good spanner to toss in here, it may slow the spread of the virus, which buys time for our immune system to fight back and reduces the amount of virus a victim may shed. It also should reduce the amount of damage the virus can cause.
Possibly if the virus mutates to avoid triggering the deadly immune cascade it may become nicer and stop causing such a severe disease. If we throw drugs at it that lock down this mechanism we will be in effect selecting for a virus that doesn’t need to use it.
Mark it up as part of the new era of anti-virals.
Information thanks to LiveScience
REFERENCE
Bouhaddou et al (2020) The Global Phosphorylation Landscape of SARS-CoV-2 Infection, https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30811-4
‘The Global Phosphorylation Landscape of SARS-CoV-2 Infection’
More panic-porn?
I don’t think that this is an unreasonable response. By all means geek-out on the technical detail…. knock yourself out. But we have seen too many sensationalist headlines and breathless repetition of meaningless trivia. What most of us are interested in is not whether it is some minuscule version of the tentacled monster from the black lagoon, but who is it going to kill, and when can we stop carrying on as though it is the return of the a Black Death.?
228
Alan Jones presents some meaningful statistics which tells us that we are being played with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsYE-dhGV7k
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Peter, it will surprise you but many of the strongest supporters of this blog are doctors.
They know what panic porn looks like and it isn’t the explosive growth of anti-viral research.
52
Jo…..
and this helps them how?
Results, yes.
Treatments, yes.
Hyperbole? Not so much.
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A hyperbole lecture from someone who talks of sensationalist, breathless, panic porn and the Black Death?
11
There is a 30 odd year old man in a Vic ICU along with four 40 odd year old people perhaps you could reassure them as their bodies fill with blood clots not to worry as its all simply panic porn
1514
If you’ve just got a count of 5 in ICU, I suppose the rest of the country could take some comfort from that. I don’t know if you’ve seen any of the articles from this mathematician/statistician, but he’s done some interesting analysis on the US covid19 data.
https://wmbriggs.com/post/31675/
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Interesting.
We are in deep trouble, and it’s not from the Virus.
KK
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Very good article, Spetzer86.
51
Garbage from a USA mathematician about an infectious disease ?
Who’d a thunk ?
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When an 23yo gets behind the wheel in car with his mates, takes them for a fling and wraps the car around a tree it is apparent that there is natural selection at work. A silly kid in charge of a deadly weapon. He has killed himself and his buddies too silly to recognise his lack of care. His parents and parents of his mates will wonder why it happened to them; they bred silly kids!
When silly kids go to CV19 parties with the objective of winning the pot then inevitably getting infected, a small number end up in hospital, a larger number of their parents end up in hospital as well as their grand parents. They put all the hospital staff at risk of hosting the virus and a reasonable chance of getting very ill and possibly losing their life. This is unnatural selection – a health worker exposed to a deadly virus because some silly kid does not care.
Downplaying the risk of CV19 demonstrates complete disregard for those who are paid to look after the sick. Those who will be required to administer the potentially lifesaving drugs to the silly kid.
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/07/13/record-of-disaster-england-and-wales-has-second-highest-coronavirus-health-worker-deaths-in-the-world/
People eventually see those close to them in dire straits due to the virus so they take much greater care. But in the process of getting that education they are exposing health care workers to risks that they did not sign up for. It is impossible to eliminate the risk of staff being infected in a COVID ward where most new arrivals are in respiratory distress and incoherent.
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Oh sorry about the record hospital cases in Texas, Arizona and Florida. I imagine your “mathmagician” will simply waive those off and say “calm down people”
some of the graphs are interesting but call him douchematician (quote me on that please)
34
Tell me when there are statistically significant numbers, like 10,000 severe cases. As Jones quoted from WHO, something like 99% of people recover. Otherwise it is panic porn. And look back at previous epidemics. People died but the whole country was not shut down. The tactic put forward at the Event 201 rehearsal was to “Flood the Zone”. Non stop media hype. And we have that. (I hope the youngsters recover from whatever they are suffering from ).
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Do they have underlying medical conditions?
At that age, I’d suggest it may be the case….
91
And might a significant number of the underlying conditions be vaccine related?
11
Tell me when there are statistically significant numbers, like 10,000 severe cases.
I’m curious Rob, are 500k deaths not “severe” or is it that those dead bodies don’t count because they are not your home nation deaths? There must be more than a million “severe” cases around the world, but that isn’t enough?
I remain baffled at the people who need to see people falling down in their own streets before they will admit this virus is not the flu, and is worth preventing. Coffins, mass graves, freezer trucks of bodies in foreign lands are irrelevant. Only death at home counts?
99% of people may recover, but we don’t know that yet. Some percentage will have long term permanent damage and we don’t know how many that will be.
21
Craker.
Don’t talk rubbish. In fact, don’t lie.
This is not about whether is is serious for that tiny minority with a severe case, but whether the majority who are most unlikely to contract a severe case, if they get it at all, should be in a panic because the virus has “tentacles”
Situations like this require sober, dispassionate assessment, not comparisons to your favourite schlock-horror monster movie.
Results matter. Treatments matter. Irrelevancies should be discarded.
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PeterW,
Before you dictate what this blog is about, and fill up the top of the thread with empty hyperbole, perhaps you could read the post? It’s almost all about new targets for antivirals which you don’t seem to realize.
And despite what you declare, the post is very much about the “tiny minority” you say are at risk of a severe case, which may be 1% of the population or in Australia — 250,000 people.
Whether we care about a quarter of a million Australians depends on what kind of civilization we want. Since the polls show mass 90% popularity of leaders who do care, and have zero virus, being healthy appears to be a democratic choice.
Clearly you want some different kind of country, and there are plenty to choose from where death is common and accepted.
30
Well said Jo !
11
Well, Peter. One key step towards that end is identifying and testing out the useful drugs. This looks like an important milestone towards narrowing that hunt and getting proper testing and evaluation completed. There could be some beneficial surprises in the months marching ahead, into the next season….
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Well Peter, what are you going to do when you have to sign up for your Covid-19 passport?
The WHO — that unspeakable organ of the unspeakable UN — is proposing just such a thing: apparently some 13 countries have signed up for it …
(https://youtube.com) “What is an immunity passport for COVID-19?”
Find out what else in the way of sheeple herding is going to come at us …
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PeterW, I have a science background. I like complex and complete-as-we-can-get, explanations of what MIGHT be going on. Theories are good, ways of letting us think about things in a non-absolutist way that lets further thinking and understanding and testing go on. If you dont like Jo’s geeky article on details about how viruses work and might be stopped then DONT READ IT. I like that one of the good sides of the Covid-19 outbreak is that it is becoming clearer that there are more antivirals out there that are already on the shelves and cheap than we knew about. It is great for me. I have suffered a lot over the last 4 years from over reactions to ordinary viruses. Now I know it is likely I don’t have to. Think of all the millions of people who might not have to suffer so much, or perhaps die, because cheap and available drugs like chloroquine, ivomectin and tagemet may have helpful antiviral or immune modulating effects. I think drug companies have known this for decades, but have been hiding it because it wont make money for them. Jo has been one of the best sources for me of links to scientific articles, which I can read, and then decide if I think the research project or theory associated is BS or useful. Then I can act to make my own choices about how to look after myself, because no one else is going to, and where I live the medical services are often less available for me than they are for my livestock. You, and everyone else, has the choice to read or not read. Dont like geeky stuff or Doom Porn, dont read it. Want pretty pre-packaged neat answers without details, then just read those. Let geeks like me appreciate the details.
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Very well said Plain Jane. Thankyou to Jo for all your work on the virus info.
122
Good grief Annie
Two red thumbies !
The kids are upset with you today.
( Not me, I agree with you )
14
Jane…
As I have said before.
How the virus affects people matters.
Potential treatment matters.
These things should be analysed soberly and dispassionately without distractions. Distractions like the sensationalist opening to the article. To reiterate… I supported the lockdown initially, when we did not know what we were facing. However it is becoming increasing likely that we will not be able to keep the virus out of this country ….. which leads to the conclusion that – very similar to the Global Warming alarmists – we have a sector of the health industry attempting to keep up the skeer because the figures aren’t providing the support that they would like.
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I see cytokine storm and think “spanish flu”.
Does this virus work the same way?
Given we have a wimpy mutated version of the virus currently compared to its original version, is this mechanism a big deal if the virus is mild?
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30820-5
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I’m sick and tired of your meaningless trivia Peter.
Go join a Virus Supporters Club for God’s sake.
But give us all a rest from your gibberish.
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The use of electric OHSM was a known quantity but when replaced by the more modern BOSM using intrusive long arms to inject the O2 into the top layer and induce rapid mixing with the bulk material below, there were problems.
As we have discovered since, politics rules and science and engineering are relegated to minor positions in the modern world.
RODS formed from this process were deformed plasticly and were subject to defects predicted by common sense so that there was a serious periodic breakdown in the material’s capacity to function elasticly in the specified manner. The predicted irregularities led to excessive plastic deformation during testing and consequent reduction in load bearing material which led to overload and failure.
Still, overriding all ethical considerations, politics won out, and the product can now be seen in one of Sydney’s most prominent features.
I’m not sure why I wrote this: it may be something to do with Peter’s insightful comment at #1 or more likely it was inspired by reoccurring memories of the good ship Venus brought on by criticism of Peter’s comment from the yard arm. I really don’t know
Whatever.
KK
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Nothing insightful about Pete’s comment and therefore nothing insightful about yours but at least yours was entertaining.
Cheers
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Hi Crackar, and others.
The point about my comment was that I tried to write it so that the only person who would understand it was the writer.
In doing that I felt that I was imitating the main article which I found to be almost impenetrable.
Anyone visiting The Sydney Tower might be excited to know about the likely broken strands of wire in the “wire rope” that provides stability to the building.
Having personally taken a piece of approx 3mm diameter wire and bent it through 90° to the point where the wire magically shatters and becomes two pieces, is to be frank: disturbing. Even Moreso when you know that the wire Must be used for the rope because politicians demand it. There’s no point going back to talk about the older open hearth steel making plant but the whole thing was just politics dominating reality. Sydney Tower is not going to fall down because there’s safe redundancy in the rope, but why make trouble and expense that will occur with increased repair and maintenance bills?
Peter’s post has relevance in saying that while the post article might be interesting to a few highly trained biologists, there are other more mundane attachments that must the be more productive in helping to understand how we should proceed.
A comment above says that there are five people in ICU presumably for Victoria? How big and how dangerous is this disease really. What is the reality behind the statistics.
Some time ago it was publicly acknowledged that everyone would be exposed to the virus, eventually.
The main thing was to delay infection so that hospitals would have a steady stream of patients.
We now have Dr Dan on a mission to test the whole of his state. Is this useful. What’s happening?
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Bill….
Why don’t you just call me a “denier” and be done with it. You’ve adopted every tactic from the Climate Change Alarmist Handbook, in your role of Virus Alarmist.
It is increasing obvious that you want the rest of the country to do whatever it takes to you YOU safe, regardless of cost. A cost that you won’t be paying.
I would sympathise with your nervousness is you showed the slightest signs of taking personal responsibility for your own welfare rather than demanding that the rest of us do it.
The test of your principles is whether you maintain them when it’s your own skin in the game. You aren’t showing yourself in a good light.
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I have a certain sympathy for you..
Being a victim of Pandemic Derangement Syndrome..
But it’s important that others reading later on
Know that PDS is at work here.
03
Bill you are projecting again, you are the one terrified of this, I read that in your writings most days.
Peter appears not to give a toss about the flu, his concern is what everyone should be concerned about.
31
You are not reading
You are imagining MP
I keep myself fire proof with Vitamin D & Zinc & vitamin C. & mouthwash
I’m a retired farmer.I know about ivermectin
And have some in store.
Also i use sanitiser.
Fire proof & cautious.
PS If you were a contractor in your own business
You should be able to get Jobkeeper.
but of course you would need to have documented the drop in your business sales & income to the ATO.
01
Tell me how thus works…a lifetime of prophalactic drugs or a vaccine every 3 months?
Logically, it means for at least 2 years until the virus is burned out, one of the options is required.
Gimme the drugs…
Although, if that italian doctor is right, the virus currently circulating is pretty mild by comparison to the original.
http://Www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/coronavirus-australia-live-news-vaccines-human-trials-start-today/news-story/b50b1853045e3c9212de3fd07143320a
“However, after three months only 16.7 per cent had maintained high levels of COVID-19-neutralising antibodies, and after 90 days several patients had no detectable antibodies in their bloodstream.
131
I reckon just keeping up your levels of vitamin D and zinc, with an apple a day could suffice. I only discovered a few days back that apples contain quercetin, a zinc ionophore, which maybe why the old adage “An apple a day keeps the doctor away” worked!!?? Works?
Cheers
Dave B
181
David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz, quercetin is indeed a zinc ionophore.
“Zinc ionophore activity of quercetin and epigallocatechin-gallate: from Hepa 1-6 cells to a liposome model”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25050823/
And it’s even available over the counter in Australia as a “natural” antihistamine and not banned…
62
That means no herd immunity by the way….Ummm !
311
There should be some lasting limited immunity from T cells.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity
30
Yes OS. Not optimistic facts. However, I have also heard that Tcells may be where the greater auto-immune action might lay. And therefore these facts might be less important than they appear to be.
40
Great news….presumably those advising the gummint should be told then….
21
But they don’t want to hear anything that might slow the “testing”.
Think of the cost.
And yes, in today’s climate, that may be ambiguous.
But with Tedros The Unteachable as role model who would trust a politician in what’s left of Twenty Twenty?
KK
51
Yet another attempt to make out CV19 is more sinister than other viruses – when it does nothing new?
I was certainly aware ‘ordinary flu’ could travel along filopodia and it was pretty much known/assumed it is capable of creating them.
I’ve only glossed over these but they all seem to cover pretty much this area.
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1007015
https://jvi.asm.org/content/89/3/1537
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17293854/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2171413/
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MrGrimNasty, it just depends on whether data and observations matter doesn’t it.
Can you name a virus that is putting more people in boxes and urns since Jan 2020?
11
In this day and age, when you research our past experimentation, I am very surprised our species is still around and our planet too.
From moving invasive species around to nuclear experimentation to germ and virus experiments, our track record is not good for our planet.
If it wasn’t for the 78% Nitrogen gas in our atmosphere, we would have roasted with a chain reaction event as the rest of our atmosphere is flammable.
When you take man out of the equation, then you get some real interesting results on how our planet chemicals composition changes as water loss and complexities intermix with overpopulation problems in both species and cell complexities.
31
In other words, as we lose water, we have overpopulation that has to adapt or become extinct.
21
Back in 1910 Socialist orator Jack London advanced the idea of depopulating non-communist China with germ weapons in The Unparalleled Invasion. Comparing communivirus death rate charts gives one the impression that “someone” took the precaution of securing a cure or vaccine before release of Version 19.0
International Socialist Vietnam reports no virus problems to speak of since April. Taiwan, a close observer but no friend of the CCP, reports a flat curve with only 7 deaths overall. In “Three Body Problem” one of the weapons of choice is a virus that targets specific genetic traits.
70
If the immune system does not “remember” C-19 and immunity is lost after recovery from infection, making reinfection possible as is claimed by some, then what hope is there for a vaccine working or establishing herd immunity?
I am not saying this is true, just that many people *claim* immunity is not maintained, although I believe very little about what is said in this area as it is so heavily politicised to try and blame President Trump.
If immunity is not maintained as is claimed could it be because there are multiple strains of the virus and immunity has to be developed for each strain?
Or could it be like HIV and the virus mutates so rapidly that a vaccine is impossible?
Where does all this leave us?
Lockdown for ever? The economy and our Civilisation itself will be destroyed.
What might work is:
– protect the vulnerable.
– simple cheap measures which are possibly beneficial like encouraging people to take Vitamin D as most people are deficient in that especially in winter and many vulnerable people are also deficient in zinc.
– international standards to be developed for how C-19 infections and fatalities are to be counted as there seems to be multiple counting and also people are counted as C-19 deaths even if they died with the disease rather than because of it. Also, the more you test, the more you find (assuming the tests are even accurate which is also questionable). There needs to be proper standards for testing methodology and ways to compare testing figures and rates from region to region and between countries.
– perform proper clinical trials on treatments for early stage infections such as the Zelenko protocol with HCQ (followed EXACTLY) or ivermectin PLUS also proper trials for both drugs for prophylaxis.
– immediately allow doctors to use HCQ and ivermectin as per their professional judgement plus wishes of patient.
– don’t lose track of the bigger picture that the Left are trying to exploit this situation to use it to “reset” Western Civilisation. Conservatives fail because they lose sight of the bigger picture and also fail to understand the deviousness of the Left and their long term view.
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Yeah although it seems the globalists are hell bent on vaccinating peopke regardless of common sense, which makes me immediately wary of thier one size fits all “solution”…
72
Outstanding David.
Ideas for action pitched at the right level.
51
Good points. The only viable short term solution is in my other post once it’s out of moderation, if not already. Repeated lock downs is not it unless one wants to crash and burn our economy and society.
51
Are these “tentacles” unique to C-19 or do other coronaviruses behave like this?
Do any other non-coronaviruses develop tentacles?
It’s interesting as a curiosity and may help find a cure but is not “sinister” as claimed by some legacy media headlines.
Tentacles is not a good term as it evokes various science fiction monsters. Tendrils or tendril-like might be more appropriate and less evocative terms.
72
And in news this morning, the Melbourne Towers Cluster(fxxx) has been linked to the BLM protests. Given that there are a lot of People of African Appearance (and probably a few People of Aboriginal Ancestry) in these towers, I am beginning to wonder just which black lives didn’t matter.
90
But we were told C-19 wouldn’t be transmitted at those Marxist “demonstrations”.
Why weren’t participants fined as they were illegal gatherings in contravention of lockdown rules? The government said the organisers would be fined but were they? And if they were fined what are the chances of them actually bothering to pay? Or some Marxist judge might put them on a $1 per month repayment plan for the next 138 years.
C-19 can only be transmitted at conservative meetings.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/coronavirus-black-lives-matter-protest-linked-to-tower-cluster/news-story/197ffe79f3e0044be2ee1495c5708364
122
Notice the unbelievable “spin” in this article as the Chief Medical Officer, who should have demanded the Government stop the illegal event, tries to downplay it.
And I’d be surprised if it were only two infections associated with the Marxists. They want maximum damage and chaos.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/google-tracking-shows-where-victorians-have-gone-wrong/news-story/52d54e74841d65342f0a7e4bca27c217
31
Yeah everyone blames commie Dan, he is going off the best medical advice from his CMO. Getting rid of Dan leaves the problem in place.
Get rid of them both.
11
Daniel Andrews listened to some crazy magical advice demanding that he release Victoria from the first lock down while there were still Corona virus in Melbourne.
That was mistake number 1
He compounded that error by not enforcing that all in bound travellers get tested before being released from quarantine
That was error number 2
He compounded that error by allowing the BLM protests and not arresting the idiots who organised it.
That was error number 3
He compounded that error by arranging poorly for trained, casual employed cheapo security guards to enforce the hotel quarantining of overseas arrivals
That was error number 4
He compounded that error by suppressing all actual data about who was infected in which suburbs. Ohhhh no we must not name & shame anyone breaking the lock down
That was error number 5
So, to conclude….An utterly incompetent state government which has now reaped the terrible harvest of their stupidity.
00
Many viruses use these filopodia.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2171413/
41
Ok then, they say that if it has webbed feet, flies and can say Quack, it’s a DUCK.
So, then if this thing can grow or encourage cells to grow Tentacles ( as Sea anemones have tentaclesand are NOT classed as Plants ) THEN is the Corona THingy a Beastie in the realms of a Parasite when Ivermectin can be used? If not Tentacles but Tendrils sounds more Plant like…..
Och it’s too late at night after a long hard day to think straight – but I can sleep on it. MMR has an effect on it too, eh? which component then – what is the connection amongst ALL these cheap simple treatments ?
31
Apart from MMR vaccination, it has also been suggested that TB vaccination leads to some level of C-19 immunity.
https://www.epworth.org.au/newsroom/tuberculosis-vaccine-could-boost-immunity-against-covid-19
21
What of those who didn’t need a TB vaccination after the BCG test?
00
In moderation…
00
David, the TB vaccine does not provide immunity it simply causes your immune system to be more active ergo if you get the Vid you have a greater chance of fighting it off
20
From https://www.barnhardt.biz/
“Consider that a significant percentage of the population doesn’t comprehend the illogic, irrationality, and insanity so brilliantly captured here”
101
102
Ee aw ee aw! imagine if they found this article and read it- what W/Could they think ? If it’s not on the Postit note, something to drink coffee from springs to mind. but will they admit it?
00
🙂 🙂
41
The USA is now awash in both TDS
And PDS
Pandemic Derangement Syndrome.
And a number of commentators here have become infected with PDS.
25
That is exactly why it is SO DANGEROUS. It spreads presymptomatically; meaning you can be spreading it even though you have no symptoms. Some people have had no symptoms one day but been dead the next day.
Anyone could be a carrier – there is no clear way of knowing.
How many people with HIV show symptoms!
[maybe a missing “sarc” tag here Rick?]ED
22
https://www.barnhardt.biz/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/img_2513.jpg
21
The list of things this virus can do grows longer every week. So does my respect for Chinese expertise in bioengineering.
100
Could air con be the common link?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/14/is-air-conditioning-contributing-to-coronavirus-spread/
30
Airconditioning spread is a good theory.
Another reason to wear a mask in shopping centres.
50
How much of the increase in C-19 infection is due to increased testing and detection as opposed to a genuine increase?
How would we know?
72
Spetzer’s comment and link above may have the answer.
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/07/coronavirus-forces-cells-to-grow-tentacles-to-help-it-invade-other-cells/#comment-2347183
41
David, Ahemmmmm….
That’s Trumps reasoning..
He told his people to back off testing…
Now that really is childish magical thinking.:
“Close your eyes and the problem goes away”
I thought this blog was for adult sceptics not children.
013
Judging by the red thumbies
There are at least 7 persons here who believe in such
Trumpian childish magical thinking.
No doubt more will show up later.Not a good sign for
A science based sceptics blog.
010
More correct to say judging by the red thumbies, there are at least 7 persons here who believe your are wrong. Only the minority here would dispute that the majority here are intelligent and reasonable. Therefore, the logical conclusion is you are in that minority.
71
More magical, Trumpian thinking.
I have always known that the majority of the population and willingly uninformed about such matters.
But here on Jo Nova’s blog I always thought was the home of those who were informed and did think deeply as well.
But most of the commentators are infected with Pandemic Derangement Syndrome – PDS
And that includes you too Peter S.
🙁
07
Trumpian thinking is certainly not perfect but it’s far better than any other leader in the world. In that regard you are pretty much alone here with your thinking. So, your remark directed at me also is targeting everyone else here as well. In other words, you disagree with everyone else here. No wonder you get so many red thumbs. If you don’t understand that logic and reasoning then I can’t help.
51
The calculated death rate is a reasonable indicator of the level of actual infection for a typical population. In Sweden, the death rate was 11% when they reached 10,000 cases. They were only testing at hospitals for those arriving at hospital and staff. The rate is now down to 7% since testing has been done more broadly. The reduction in death rate is due to more testing, better protecting aged care homes and possibly more appropriate treatment.
Within a typical population the death rate appears to be around 1%. So with Sweden recording 5,500 deaths, a reasonable conclusion is that 550k have already been infected but they have only assessed 75k positive. So rate of testing quite low.
Singapore is an outlier. They have 27 deaths in 46K cases or 0.05% death rate. Over 90% of their cases were in younger migrant workers. These people are in good health and young so low risk of death. Their population with the virus is atypical.
USA probably has a higher proportion of higher risk individuals so their underlying death rate might be higher than 1%. The current death rate is 3.9%, It is reasonable to conclude that there are 4X more people haing the virus than actually detected. The cases are rising rapidly in the USA so that 4X figure might be a tad high because there are already a lot of people in the pipeline to death. There are now 6 states where ICUs are at or near capacity and both Texas and Arizona have ordered refrigerated trucks to store bodies as was done in NY.
The death rate in Australia is 1.05%. The vast majority of infections in Australia have been detected due to the high level of testing. Most of Australia’s cases were in returning travellers and now spreading in Victoria. But all subject to reasonably effective contact tracing.
So to answer the question – take the number of deaths in a location, multiply that by 100 and you will have a fair indicator of the number of infections. Take that as the total number of cases. From that you can determine the proportion of cases actually detected. The antibody trials that have been done align well with this simple calculation.
34
Maybe not Rick. I have been trying to find what different TREATMENTS are used in different countries to see if that is in any way related to the death rates in those countries. USA and Australia are not using treatments in most hospitals other than oxygen and ventilators. I asked a head nurse at a country hospital and the protocol is just oxygen – or send to a big hospital for ventilators, no specific drug at all. So I think it is possible the different death rates might be from different treatment types. It is a possibility among many others, other than testing rate, for the differences.
31
The head nurse needs to visit her local town farm store
Ivermectin is cheap.
So too is mouthwash
And Zinc
And Vitamin D3
And they are all easily available over the counter.
26
Mass madness not just in terms of toilet paper and masks but also repeated lock downs. The whole point of the initial lockdown was to give us time to better prepare and protect ourselves (hospital equipment, wash hands, etc.) not to eliminate the virus as that would be impossible. The madness explanation is a better one than holding on to some conspiracy theory that it is all a ploy for NWO advocates. However, I certainly would not rule out the possibility and in fact the likelihood of NWO advocates using the current madness to fulfil their dreams (nightmares for the rest of us). They would very much relish the idea to push us towards a NWO with their minions like the ABC, ALP, Greens, much of the LNP (eg, emission reduction), etc. falling over each other to support such an agenda without most of them realising it. The madness of clinging on to the emission reduction policies to solve a mythical CAGW is now extended to the madness of repeated lock downs in the mistaken belief it will stop the virus. What we should do instead is keep washing hands, clean surfaces as often as possible and maintain safe distancing in places where people are in groups for long periods. If that’s not enough to keep a lid on the pandemic then go ahead and keep using repeated lock downs and see our economy crash and burn.
111
The Premier agrees with your sentiment.
“We can’t shut down every time we have a cluster of cases,” Ms Berejiklian told A Current Affair.
“We can’t keep shutting down and reopening, that is not a good way for us to manage the pandemic.”
51
Ohhhh well,
NSW is now where Victoria was two weeks ago.
No doubt in two weeks time she will change here mind.
And NSW will be in lock down again.
Just behaving like pollies always do
Too little too late.
18
Agreed Peter. The globalists/Marxists have discovered that the virus panic with associated lockdowns and restrictions or removal of individual rights is a massively more effective means by which to destroy Western Civilisation, which is their ultimate objective, than the lie of anthropogenic global warming ever was.
It is frightening how easily the Sheeple have rolled over and taken it with no questions and no complaints.
71
The so called “Sheeple” by definition refers to people who are easily led. In that respect that would cover much of the population but for different reasons. Some are simple minded and clueless. The loony left forms much of that group. Not much intelligence. Others are too busy with their lives with work as their main focus and as such includes many who happen to be very intelligent. They are easily led because they trust our political leaders and so called experts too much too often and don’t have the time to do their own research to figure out how wrong they are. They also are more likely to be self-interested and driven by money and success. I know from my own personal experience but I’ve now grown out of that mode. Those two groups alone albeit distinct help to allow the NWO advocates to push their agenda with very little resistance. The difference though is the latter will wake up much sooner as the agenda is rolled out slowly (as I have a long time ago). Unfortunately, that still has the risk that it will be too late for them (me) to have an impact to turn things around. I’ve now resigned to the fact we will crash and burn one way or another as per history so I’m now focused in preparing for the worst as best I can while hoping for the best.
51
I remember the lockdown was as you say but based on WHO modelling of hundreds of thousand deaths and just for a couple of weeks, it was to flatten the curve, then it morphed into eliminate. 100 deaths in 5 months!
Funny how the chanting to lock it down comes from the side who will lose nothing, claiming they care about all lives while meaning they care only about their own. Nearly all have gained financially from the demise of others, should be real proud of yourselves.
8000 so called sick in which 50% did not even know they were sick, 100 dead. 3.5 million on job keeper facing financial ruin and most want to do it all over again.
Look at the empty shops in your towns and cities, these people sacrificed everything to save your lives, time for you all to sell your stuff and help out those who you prevent from supporting their families. Then we will all be in this together.
The Globalists consider old people worthless eaters that need to be removed, you may of avoided Kung Flu and now Kung Flu the sequel, but you will not avoid their wrath, I do hope its painless for you all.
41
MP
I puzzled. Who was this directed at?
22
Those chanting to destroy lives while not seeing the obvious risks.
I worked almost full time before this BS as a consultant. I now have no income, the government gives me nothing I can’t access my super, I am not of the age this effects. The engineering company I worked with before this employed 3000 people around the world, that is now half, most were young engineers with house and car loans and very young families.
I get emails asking me if I know of any work, very sad days indeed.
Your one of the many good guys on here 🙂
60
And you are not in Australia and able to access the Jonseeker program ?
15
Yes I am in Aus and no I am not able to access any financial assistance. I work for myself as a contractor therefore I am not an employee for these purposes.
41
O.K.
Far too many people are unable to put themselves to the task of trying to imagine how things are for people like yourself who are in dire straits.
I brought this up ages ago and people rubbished me. Running a small business is not easy and under current circumstances near impossible.
KK
51
I will survive, I prepared. Many others won’t and that will not be from Kung Flu fighting. (had to do it)
I read your comments and your compassion.
20
Thanks MP.
20
David, what are we actually supposed to DO??? Grab our guns and start blasting? Write angry letters to politicians? Stand in front of tanks until we get run over? Can you think of anything the sheeple can do not to get mustered? Do what BLM does and write things on statues and pull them down (though BLM is part of NWO)? I used to think we had more freedom than we do. I got over the NWO propaganda that it is the “people” that are responsible for the sins of their goveners, because they can vote.What is it you do David, not to be “sheeple”?
41
Well if we all wrote angry letters to our political leader then things would change for the better. I’m not so naive to believe that will ever happen for the reasons I’ve stated above. As long as we have spineless leaders like we have or even strong ones like Trump who have their hands tied behind their backs, things will get worse. The voting public have the power to change things peacefully but unfortunately they lack the will to apply it appropriately.
21
Yes Jane we should do something, it must be peaceful but we must do something.
It needs to be highly visible all the time.
We could start a movement like the “yellow vest movement” but instead of protesting on Saturdays, wear it all the time whenever you are outside your home, walking, working, shopping. This would do two things, let the Globalists know we are aware and let our fellow citizens know they are not alone. Need a Logo “all rights all Freedoms all the time” or something like that.
Need a web site, costs $10 for a yellow vest with a logo roughly. The world is after a solution so this could be set up in chapters like YVM Australia, this would be big I feel.
You don’t have to believe the NWO theory, just be concerned about our rights.
Apart from that, I have no idea.
42
There are many more infectious disease experts recognising what Taiwan achieved and are striving to achieve the same result – complete elimination. Any location aiming for less is ordinary. It is now widely realised it is not difficult to eliminate the virus from a community. Some communities are not quite as smart as others as evidenced by Victoria’s current situation.
33
Ignorance & misinformation hard at work Rick.
This is a huge problem for some migrant communities
With low levels of English understanding.
But even here on this blog we see lots of magical childish thinking.
For example : DON”T TEST and The pandemic will go away.
Who let the kids into this adults blog ?
09
Good question Bill.
You got a note from your Mum?
51
No just the childish magical one from you MP !
10
Yes complete elimination is possible but not guaranteed even with a vaccine. It all depends on how the virus develops and mutates. Without a vaccine the only way to eliminate to virus for certain is to lock down the whole world for a long time. The NWO advocates would love that idea.
61
‘ … lock down the whole world for a long time.’
More than likely the wearing of masks should starve the virus, so it becomes standard practice everywhere and then society can get back to work.
12
PeterS, will any evidence convince you that some nations have borders and also have zero virus?
Without a vaccine the only way to eliminate to virus for certain is to lock down the whole world for a long time.
This banal obvious situation (borders) which I’ve been discussing here for 5 months seems like a concept you haven’t considered, and I live in hope that if you read the posts (one day) you will discover it, and conversation can advance beyond repetition of a binary imaginary world which only has “vaccines” or “lockdown” as endpoints.
It is also obvious that if a new airborne ebola with a 70% deathrate arrived, we could find a way to close the borders and keep it out (assuming we were not so stupid as to follow Fauci/WHO opinions on borders). It’s just a question of cost.
The only rational point of debate is whether it is cheaper to close borders and save lives but lose tourism dollars, or open borders, gain tourism dollars but deal with repeat outbreaks and deaths and repeat lockdowns to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.
Please try to lift the standards of your comments so that you stop repeating the same inanity.
10
Which tourists want to go to some place infested with Corona virus ?
Greece opened it’s borders weeks ago to get it’s tourism industry off the floor.
But so far bugger all tourists are bothering to go.
Meanwhile the Greeks are fighting off hordes of refugees trying to escape from the Covid nightmare in Turkey.
And of course Greece and the whole EU are saying “Go back where you came from.”
00
I’m more impressed with how it interferes with the body’s immune system’s response so the body isn’t aware of this stealth invader until much too late. By the time some people develop symptoms in response the virus is already well-advanced in the body. So they may collapse without warning. Younger people’s initial ‘innate’ response is sharper, so the virus isn’t as good at this ‘stealth invasion’ with younger people.
In a way broadly similar to HIV (which takes out the T cells-but this virus just makes the immune system go to sleep), it makes the immune system less effective, which is a very effective way to invade, kind of like taking out the secret service before one mounts a large scale mission. There must be a very long evolutionary history within bats to be able to do these things (note it doesn’t like heat or sunlight, and likes cool enclosed spaces-just like in a bat cave), just like with AIDS there was a long evolutionary history in both chimps and before that monkeys and other animals.
21
Is herd immunity for CoViD-19 possible?
Woman gets CoViD-19 for the 2nd time
https://www.gofundme.com/f/my-wife-is-very-sick-with-covid19
WWE announcer Kayla Braxton says she had coronavirus twice
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/wwe-announcer-kayla-braxton-says-she-had-coronavirus-twice/?
20
Interesting comparative data coming out from the Texas health authorities. Comparing Covid with the last two flu seasons
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/stunning-texas-coronavirus-numbers-show-covid-19-less-lethal-last-two-flu-seasons/
11
I think that just goes to show that there should be more notice taken of influenza. Not that Corona virus 19 should be ignored as well. I think there are probably more useful antivirals out there than the Pharma industry is letting on and I think they know what a fair few of them are. I think they have been keeping their mouths shut. I have read lots more research papers on antivirals and immune modulators since Cov19 and am surprised there has not been more follow up on the research that was done in the early 2000’s after the mers sars outbreak. It seems many possible cancer treatments that are less drastic to the recipient and cheaper than currently used ones are known but big Pharma is not going to let on about those either. I think viruses have a lot to do with many cancers, more than are recognised yet. I think things like Vitamin D have a lot to do with cancer also that is not followed up enough. I wonder, since reading about Ivermectin for covid, why when I started sheep farming 17 years ago I used to treat or find many more cancers in the sheep than I do now (almost none). Maybe because that is when more ‘mectin use came in?? Just a correlation, but ??
20
Maybe on to something there.
I have not had the flu for as far back as I can remember, I do my cattle every other month by paddock and get a good coating of whatever Mectin is in use, rotate through the range to reduce resistance.
30
Maybe so Plain Jane but we do not wreck economies over flu outbreaks.
11
If only Flu deaths were not inflated wildly by models of “burdens” assumed to occur.
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/beware-the-famous-flu-death-tally-is-highly-adjusted-and-coronavirus-is-still-10-times-worse/
PlainJane, I too find the myriad of anti-virals eye-opening. Indeed, profits may have hidden this from us, and there may be many options to use against the flu too.
Wouldnt’ that be a great outcome if Coronavirus blew the lid off the repeated line that only bacterial infections can be treated…
10
For those and other cases of claimed reinfection I wonder if both diagnoses were correct?
And could some cases be something else like flu?
Could other cases be misdiagnoses due to the poor and variable accuracy of testing kits?
I’m not saying reinfection is not possible but all things need to be considered.
Also, if immunity is not maintained it implies vaccines won’t work and if prophylaxis or early stage infection control is not used for whatever reason or is determined not to be possible by honest scientists, then things look very grim indeed.
Society cannot lock down or isolate from overseas forever.
41
Did you bother to read the reports I linked to?
Here is a video of another case https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/24/woman-tests-positive-for-covid-19-twice-nr-baldwin-intv-vpx.cnn
04
See my reply at #22 below. The numbering is getting messed up.
20
Great link not front page news
@0:40
One-on-one with health services secretary Alex Azar
The risk groups are people over 65 or 80
with 3 of the 5 important Comorbidity’s
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/29/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-russia/index.html
Again, why do we lock down health people? The risk groups are 65 plus with 2 or 3 Comorbidity?
01
Why lock down healthy people who carry a disease that kills mostly old folks?
Obviously we don’t care if old folks die. And fat people, cancer patients, people with high blood pressure deserve what they get.
What matters in life is money.
Agreed?
10
Coronavirus may vanish too fast for vaccine trial
One of the scientists behind the Oxford coronavirus vaccine has warned there is only a 50 percent chance of it working because cases in the UK are declining so fast.
The University of Oxford’s Jenner Institute and the Oxford Vaccine Group began developing a COVID-19 vaccine in January using a virus taken from chimpanzees.
With the number of UK coronavirus cases dropping every day, there may not be enough people to test it on, according to the institute’s director Professor Adrian Hill, who noted:
“It’s a race against the virus disappearing, and against time. We said earlier in the year that there was an 80% chance of developing an effective vaccine by September.
“But at the moment, there’s a 50% chance that we get no result at all. We’re in the bizarre position of wanting COVID to stay, at least for a little while.”
https://www.healthnutnews.com/the-times-coronavirus-may-vanish-too-fast-for-vaccine-trial/
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-may-vanish-too-fast-for-vaccine-trial-bc7rjpf2n
01
Firstly, my browser crashed and I was responding to your post at #19. It came out as a reply to #20.
And yes, I did bother to read both reports you posted. One was a husband’s account of the case on a GoFundMe page raising money for his sick wife. The second was a case report from a celebrity as reported in the New York Post.
I didn’t see anything but unproven claims on the diagnosis. I would like to see actual scientific proof that they both had C-19 twice (e.g. lab tests). I’m not saying they didn’t either. I just had questions and my questions were fair and reasonable.
41
That was a reply to #20.2.1
11
For the past few days Victoria has been getting 170-270 positive tests per day, not doubling every 5 days as was happening in the build up to this new wave.
But that is based on the results of 27,000 tests per day, so a bit under 1% positive results.
I wonder if they doubled the number of daily tests whether the number of new cases would also double.
31
According to RickWill above the number of deaths in Australia is 1.05% of those infected so if there is 27 deaths in VIC there should have been previously plus now a total of 2751 infected. But according to link below, as of 14th July VIC has or had 4224 cases. So that implies a death rate of 0.64%. According to link below there has been 1,170,300 tests since Jan 1 so a 0.36% positive rate.
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-update
21
What an intriguing use of statistics! – just to prove Rick is wrong. !
However he was talking about Australia
You are talking about Victoria.
Let’s see if you can do better ?
09
I wasn’t trying to prove anyone wrong. There is obviously a disparity between stats for Australia as provided by Rick and VIC gov stats for VIC. It implies the death rate for VIC is less than Australia as a whole. But it could also be different due to the rate of testing.
41
David there is a big lag to completed deaths. It can take weeks for some slow inconsiderate patients to finally trip off the mortal coil.
Robber, good question, but the positivity rate is staying at around 0.7% yes? (last time I looked). Positivity rates in the US ~ 20 – 30% in some states.
Mexico a phenomenal 62% positive.
Vic is doing more tests per capita than nearly anywhere.
10
And Melbourne’s Northern & Western suburbs were locked down 2 weeks ago.
The lockdown is having an effect of restricting infection.
So hopefully the doubling will no longer happen.
16
They’re Lying About Covid…Yet The Fear-Filled Public Still Believes RonPaulLibertyReport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=K7o2HgwnoIY&feature=emb_logo
21
Dear Kevin, perhaps you could write a statement about the links you post instead of assuming that a youtube link constitutes an argument?
Useful commenters make points people can discuss without having to wade through a video.
Hypothetically, it’s a cheap troll like tactic to post many repeat links to videos (that the poster may not even have looked it) which wastes time and dilutes the thread. After all, it’s takes almost no time to post links but a lot of time to watch them all.
If you find a particular argument valuable, please share it.
10
Thanks for your reply, I know it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack.
I had no idea there could be any difficulty in watching a 10 min video, personally I just let them run in the background so i can listen to the audio, point taken but my moderated time is about 8 hours so I don’t really expect an interesting reply?
The daily death count has morphed into the daily “new case” count, as 100,000 tests a day have exploded into 700,000 tests.
Timestamps:
@1:00 Statistics: “Tremendous” increase in testing of healthy people, increased cases of young people with no symptoms.
@2:00 Changing definition of Covid statistics,(Cars accidents equal Covid death). Hospitals incentivize (Money) to report Covid.
@3:20 If you test positive up to 15 people around you are automatically Covid positive with out tests? OMG!
@8:30 Deaths down (Tested) cases up.
@9:50 If second wave fizzles there will be a new virus (planning).
@14:50 COVID-19 Close To Losing Its Epidemic Status In The US, According To The CDC.
WOW
@18:10 @repthomasmassie@: A lot of people keep forgetting that “flatten the curve” is/was about slowing the spread of COVID — not stopping the spread and not reducing the number of people who eventually get infected. It is/was about avoiding overwhelming medical resources until herd immunity is reached.
The CDC qualifies a disease outbreak as an “epidemic” if the number of deaths attributable to the disease exceeds a certain percentage of total deaths per week. That threshold for pneumonia, influenza and COVID-19 fluctuates slightly depending on the time of year, ranging from around 7% at the height of flu season to around 5% during less virulent months.
The latest data show that the percentage of deaths in the country attributable to those factors had as of the last week in June reached its lowest point since the end of last year, becoming “equal to the [current] epidemic threshold of 5.9%,” the CDC said.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/covid-19-close-losing-its-epidemic-status-us-according-cdc
New COVID-19 infections rising, but new deaths flat as younger patients recover (Nice Charts)
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/health/new-covid-19-infections-rising-new-deaths-flat-younger-patients-recovering
Thomas Massie
If Trump is responsible for 120,000 COVID deaths, who’s responsible for 240,000+ flu deaths when Obama was President?
01
Re testing. What matters is the positivity rate. If anyone talks about increasing tests without also explaining what happened to the positivity rate they’re not explaining anything.
It’s fairly trivial to focus on the reasons they said they were flattening the curve. They are right. The talk is inconsistent, we are not being told the whole story. They are not admitting it was a mistake to aim for flattening the curve. That’s herd-immunity planning, and it has failed. They forgot in March that there was another better option, to crush the curve.
As I predicted, we can’t live with this virus easily. Like dancing with a tiger. Suppression efforts are doomed to be over run by the exponential growth, therefore everywhere will aim for crushing it if they can. Though not all places can afford that.
The definition of “epidemic” is a semantic game. Whatever.
The deaths are rising in many US states after the predictable lag. At least we managed to stop people catching this in some aged care homes. That’s good. And people have Vitamin D in the US now, which is also reducing deaths. But come November that won’t be the case, and this virus is awful for freedom lovers, entrepeneurs and political campaigners who like packed stadiums.
Trump is being dreadfully misled by the Swamp. Fauci should be sacked. But Trump is not at his finest dealing with this virus. He has made mistakes. His first mistake was not getting better independent advice.
Drain the Swamp.
The only true freedom is zero viruses.
10
The Sudden, Growing Scientific Evidence For Masks to Fight Covid-19, Explained…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxrtVC_pus8&feature=em-lsp
00
Thanks to Dissecting Leftism (https://dissectleft.blogspot.com) for this article:
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/hebrew-u-scientist-drug-could-eradicate-covid-19-from-lungs-in-days-635028
‘New research by Hebrew University Prof. Ya’acov Nahmias and Sinai’s Dr. Benjamin revealed that the FDA-approved drug Fenofibrate (Tricor) could reduce SARS-CoV-2’s ability to reproduce or even make it disappear.’
Let’s hope…!
10
NB The Jerusalem Post had a report about this days ago.
I posted the link in the previous as well.Got red thumbed for my trouble.
🙁
Let’s hope it works !
00
Face Masks – Helpful or Hoax?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFnUGSr3fw0
@7:20
WHO Consultant Christine Francis
Medical masks cannot protect against the new Coronavirus when used alone.
IF you do not have “symptoms” you do not have to wear masks because there is no evidence that they protect people who are not sick.
@9:40
How to put a mask ON and OFF.
DO not put your mask in your “pocket” use a protective carton to put your mask in.
@16:50
CDC wants states to count ‘probable’ coronavirus cases and deaths, but most aren’t doing it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/cdc-wants-states-to-count-probable-coronavirus-cases-and-deaths-but-most-arent-doing-it/2020/06/07/4aac9a58-9d0a-11ea-b60c-3be060a4f8e1_story.html
??? Does any one really understand the definition of a “probable” death?
Reporting COVID-19 Probable Cases & Probable Deaths
Beginning the week of June 14, 2020, in addition to reporting the daily number of confirmed cases and deaths, DHEC also is reporting probable cases and probable deaths in regard to COVID-19.
https://scdhec.gov/infectious-diseases/viruses/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/covid-19-confirmed-probable-cases
00
Kevin,
Masks are so valuable that the CDC said all kinds of stupid things to stop people running out to buy them in bulk, because the CDC wanted some left for doctors and it was caught with it’s pants down. Read the studies I posted. They are consistent.
PRobable deaths: As I’ve said before — Deaths can be due to multiple things. Without a full autopsy it isn’t easy to know — was it 45% covid or 55% covid? Doctors do their best. Covid causes heart attacks and strokes. Would they have happened anyway, or did Covid til the balance.?
Excess deaths show that in most place the actual Covid deaths were an undercount.
00
How COVID-19 Ends: Vaccination, Mutations, and Herd Immunity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3YK1yUU3ZM
@2:20
The average vaccine, taken from the preclinical phase, requires a development time line of 10.7 years and has a market entry probability of 6% (or a 94% chance of failure) lol.
00