In news just in, Donald Trump and his wife Melania have both tested positive for Covid-19. So in the last four weeks of campaigning for the US election he needs to quarantine for two weeks, will most likely survive but faces significant odds of impairment and fatigue. How convenient for Biden-Harris?
The Trumps went into quarantine and got tested today after one of the President’s closest advisers, Hope Hicks, contracted the infection.
Ms Hicks, a former White House communications director who returned to the administration as a counsellor to Mr Trump earlier this year, travelled to and from this week’s presidential debate in Cleveland, Ohio with him.
She was also aboard the President’s helicopter, Marine One, for a trip to Joint Base Andrews yesterday. And she was aboard Air Force One for Mr Trump’s visit to Minnesota, where he held a political rally.
–news.com.au
With luck, he gets the asymptomatic kind of infection, (as his wife does too). We hope his doctors are fully up with things like the Florida ICAM treatment regime.
She said ICAM works by reinforcing the immune system and protecting the lungs from inflammation.
“We had no need for mechanical ventilation and the patients all survived the discharge regardless of age and regardless of past medical history,” Norwood-Williams said.
Since April, they have seen a 96.4 percent survival rate for COVID-19 patients admitted at AdventHealth Ocala.
ICAM is an acronym for the types of medications used: Immunosupport such as Vitamin C and Zinc; Corticosteroids to control inflammation; Anticoagulants to prevent blood clots; and Macrolides to help fight infection.
The fatality rate for ICAM is still 3.6% — but it’s not clear who this applies too. (where is that data?) It appears to relate to people who are hospitalized and across all age groups, if so, it’s probably a great result. (Bear in mind though that Case Fatality Rates (all deaths divided by all positive tests) is running at 2.9% in Australia, and 5 – 6% in countries like France and the UK. (h/t OriginalSteve for the ICAM tip, and I’m sure there is another that I can’t find. Apologies.)
Looks like the next two debates are off. — What should happen (if only) — are written debates. It’s the best way to get to the truth and cut out the theater of “live” performances. The notion of cutting off a President while he discusses national election issues was a fantasy gift for the Trump-haters.
This will also slow down people within his core team:
According to US media, the list of people potentially exposed includes: Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner, Donald Trump Jr and his girlfriend Kimberly Guilfoyle, Eric Trump and his wife Lara, Tiffany Trump, White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany, adviser Stephen Miller, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Congressman Jim Jordan, Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien and criminal justice reform advocate Alice Marie Johnson.
According to the American Council on Science and Health, the odds of death of those infected who are over 65 is 5.6%. Trump is 73 and overweight.
How will this play out? I don’t think the debate was useful so missing the next two won’t matter. More serious might be the interruption to Trump’s rallies across the country. He was getting attention for those and speaking directly to voters.
I suggest that the Churches have a National Day of Prayer for the recovery of the President. That might help on several levels. So far he is not sick, as far as I can make out.
If he takes his hydroxychloroquine, as President Bolzanaro did it could become quite interesting.
Joe Biden and his team must be worried. They were in the same room together with No Mask.
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‘How will this play out?’
A person from the left just told me its a stunt, because Donald is frightened of losing further debates he has faked his own illness.
I told him that is rubbish.
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the rumours and conspiracies will come thick and fast you can be sure of that.
And don’t think that Trump himself wouldn’t be saying – Corona Joe or “a predictable excuse if he really has it – if the boot was on the other foot.
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Donald will continue his campaign on the twittersphere, but if he gets really crook (like Boris) then Mike Pence gets the big chair.
Any suggestion that Beijing orchestrated this attack on the Whitehouse is simply silly.
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What is your Chinese name?
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Pàngzi yī.
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GeeAss said: And don’t think that Trump himself wouldn’t be saying….
Like you know.
Joe is crippled by old age and probable dementia. Donald will get better and Joe will decline rapidly.
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Donald will get better and Joe will decline rapidly.
Like you know
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Apparently, the twitterverse is in full meltdown with loads of people calling the diagnosis a fake stunt. Usual suspect, Jane Caro is amongst them.
Plus there are loads of lefties openly hoping Trump dies from CoViD-19 with Twitter doing nothing to these posts, totally disregarding its policy against hate speech
How inclusive all these people are. No wonder I have no inclination to tweet.
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That was a very poor and aggressive performance by Trump on Tuesday. I believe he takes a cocktail of preventative drugs to combat covid. I wonder if they could account for his aggression and the impression I Got that he wasn’t all there?
If Trump had to pull out if his illness became serious and debilitating would Pence automatically become the Republican candidate? If so, how would he fare?
Presumably there are a whole load of people associated with Trump, From Biden to Pelosi who will be nervously taking tests today.
Let us hope that no one has a serious dose of this virus
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His aggression was an exhibit of strength. They had a genuine argument, a verbal brawl, like real people.
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What was the Trump Strategy for the Debate?
(may the fleas of a thousand camels infest their underpants)
https://richardsonpost.com/harryrichardson/18392/18392/
Usually in the Presidential debate the candidates will try to chase to undecided voters (who may constitute 20% in normal times). This time the country seems to highly polarised, with very few undecided voters. So Trump ignores the very few undecided voters and tries to energize his own support base to actually vote in great numbers, while hopefully discouraging the Biden camp followers.
Are the democrat voters quietly drifting away?
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The candidacy and being president are two different things
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GeeDingleballs says
Since no one understand what the he)) you said there I say: The shith spreads evenly downhill.
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Hopefully Donald Trump and Melania have kept up their HCQ+zinc, and have offered a supply to the Bidens and both teams. Unfortunately the pres election will very likely be diverted away from some of the issues that really metter.
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I think he only took HCQ for a short time, when a previous staffer got Corona. I hope that his personal doctor is open to all good ideas.
Jo says the POTUS is 73 AND overweight, so that is two risk factors. Call Dr Zelenko and put him on the advisory team.
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G’day Peter C,
One report I heard was that he took HCQ for 2 weeks, but I didn’t hear when that 2 weeks ended. However, the good news is that HCQ has a half life of about 50 days, according to Dr Zelenko at 50:30 into his interview with Dr Mobeen Syed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLD1P5nH30
I wish him, his family and supporters well, and a rapid recovery, hoping the test has picked up traces of an earlier exposure that was crushed by his residual HCQ.
Cheers
Dave B
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Unfortunately:
” Trump being transferred to hospital after COVID-19 diagnosis
The official presidential helicopter, Marine One, has landed on the White House lawn to transfer Trump to a nearby medical centre.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/trump-being-transferred-to-hospital-after-covid-19-diagnosis-20201002-p561mx.html?btis ”
…
There is no mention in this article of his being given any medication or supplement.
…
David Maddison reports a different source below:
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/10/trump-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/#comment-2368497
Cheers
Dave B
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This SMH report does mention a treatment, but no HCQ.
…
Donald Trump showing ‘mild symptoms’ as positive COVID-19 test rocks White House
Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Trump’s behaviour had been a “brazen invitation for something like this to happen”.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-trump-showing-mild-symptoms-as-positive-covid-19-test-rocks-white-house-20201002-p561mg.html?btis
” Conley said that he administered Trump a single dose of an experimental antibody cocktail, as well as zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and aspirin. ”
…
Cheers
Dave B
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More inconsistencies from the Chairman of Danistan, thousands of people socialising on St kilda beach most not wearing face masks and no obvious police presence but most days there are constant patrols when the beach is empty.
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Is this where the US election is being held?
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The State of Victoria, Australia has improved on elections and sitting parliaments, a masked leader and numerous bulked up police appear to be sufficient.
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A bizarrely irrelevant reply.
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A bizarrely irrelevant counter reply.
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Thank you! (one point) For some time you may have thought that your contributions are not appreciated, my post shows the effect of your influence.
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This is gratuitous. What did you mean?
Convenient that the White House is lax with control measures, has no “bubble” policy of any sort and applies no checks and controls to speak of? Did Joe see an weakness?
The surprise is that it took so long and therefore the conspiracies will be along the lines of, “convenient for trump”, since he could have had it at any time in the last 6 months given the whitehouse covid controls.
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Jo did say that, but it might be inconvenient. As the Great Donald says;”lets just wait and see”.
Everything else seems to be your fantasy.
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fantastic quote. I plan to use it one day
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Yeah, Jo got it wrong … it should be Harris-Biden
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Heard it while listening to ABC radio , the presenter was in full delight of the Dons diagnosis and interviewed every lefty she could and repeated the mantra about the Chief Covid denier and Covid denier in chief .
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you have a mind meld with ABC presenters?
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Much the same as yourself Mr Leaf .
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Yeah yeah eejay. Nasty stuff from the left once again. Horrid people with no moral guidance. Hate is your signature.
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I’ve already heard a lefty guest presenter on Perth’s radio 6PR sarcastically suggesting “Why doesn’t Trump inject himself with disinfectant?” Charming.
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Naomi Klein has hit rock bottom.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/10/02/not-tragic-accident-crime-scene-critics-say-trump-covid-diagnosis-culmination-his
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Haters gunna hate Sommer , unfortunately the rabid left have never accepted Trump as President in his first term and don’t think it will improve in his second term either.
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Will all republican senators manage to stay out of quarantine to get the supreme court justice nomination done before the election.
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Please, please let it happen.
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Amen to that,Peter. Upholding the Constitution is the bulwark of democratic law and order.
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If he was infectious and projectile shouting and or Biden gets it some other way will both of them at their ages be sick during the election? What happens then? Boris was 55.
“Neurological Manifestations of COVID-19”
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12035-020-02152-5#Sec6
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Biden will be hurried into seclusion and Harris will take over as the Democratic Candidate. Much fawning by the media about younger dynamic challenger sure to win, followed by polls showing just that.
The unforeseen difficulty will be all those prepared mail-in votes for Biden will become obsolete.
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Maybe,
But then the focus goes onto Kamala Harris and her political record. The whole point of Biden is that he is seen as a Moderate Democrat.
If Biden gets taken out, how will the Moderate Democrats vote?
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There has been a huge focus on the main Dems candidates’ offspring, but its been basically blacked out in the leftist MSM.
The allegations of the sheer scale of the alleged linkages to the CCP, if substantiated, would make said candidate politically “radioactive”…..
Do your own research though.
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“The unforeseen difficulty will be all those prepared mail-in votes for Biden will become obsolete.
New candidate name change? The name she always wanted.
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sliggy
If Biden is ‘removed’will Trump also step down? How would a battle between Pence and Harris pan out?
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Graeme No 3:
It’s not a problem.
You underestimate the power of a black felt-tip pen.
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We all knew it was a real possibility. Not because of the masks or lack of them.
And plasma infusions from recovered patients are expensive, but no expense will be spared. Plus very early detection. We can only hope.
I certainly hope he kept up his Chloroquine tablets and zinc and antibiotics, which I suspect he did. Or he will be onto them now. If so, he will prove doubters wrong in the most dramatic way.
Plus, if hopefully he survives and is well, he and his wife will be real heroes in a time of great suffering and admired by all, even if reluctantly. That would be devastating to the Democrats at the election. One would be President hiding in his basement scared for his life and a real President taking deadly risks for his fellow Americans. Real courage in a time of adversity for everyone. It would be goodbye Biden.
We look forward to a real President who gets through safely. No one can call him a coward.
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well that was confusing. Do you need a proof reader?
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You confuse easy Gee Aye ! But we already knew that .
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Self confirmation of the [SNIP]AD
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Behave, leaf….rather you employ your intellect for constructive activities…sniping from the sidelines is cheap and intellectually vapid….
Tsk….
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Tsk OriginalSteve:
He can’t help it: Cosmic Rays are at their highest levels since the start of the space age … they are known for their cardiac, (blood pressure) and neurological effects …
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Trump is borderline obese but his blood pressure is good.
I have read he is on a cholesterol reducing drug – probably some form of statin.
There is some data showing better outcome for people suffering Covid19 while taking statins.
If he recovers within three weeks like Bolsonaro, it should give him a boost at election time as it will vindicate opening the economy. If he doesn’t recover quickly I gather Mike Pence takes over. I doubt that will go well.
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As I understand it, half of Australian male adults are on statins, so nothing unusual there. Overweight in America? What’s new?
Low blood pressure is very good and unusual for someone whose mother was Scots. Most importantly they are onto it quickly where most infections are not treated early enough. I assume they were tested every day, so it is as early as possible.
The appalling Kathy Griffin would be really excited though and all the late night hosts. And most of Hollywood. I have lost respect for so many actors and celebrities who turned out to be really nasty in real life while portrayed as saints in films or as comedians. And Jim Carrey is certifiable, but I suppose we knew that but thought it was an act.
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‘Overweight in America?’
Every year 300,000 US citizens die from obesity, 200,000 have already died from Covid, this is a bad reflection on the health system and eating habits of the masses.
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Have you ever seen the serving sizes in America? The marvel is that anyone is not obese. It is calculated that half the food is thrown out, but it is so cheap and good. Steaks at 1.5kg. In Chicago, a lemon chicken is a whole chicken, not a fillet as I once assumed. You see it in the Blues Brothers film when John Belushi orders four fried chickens and a coke. He does not mean wings. And ultimately the coke killed him. It’s the land of excess consumption, hard to avoid when you are President and at so many hosted functions and even your home has a restaurant.
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TedF, you talk nonsense. 1.5 kg steak…. in a decent “steak house” in NY, a 1.5 kg steak would set you back $US 150.00, and that is just for the steak. The masses won’t be ordering that. Real world decent portions on steak and fish dishes is 6-8 ounces, with veggies and such. Most restaurants and customers are already tuned in for healthy menus.
I cant tell you how stupid it is that you infer diners here are running around eating whole chickens and half a side of beef. Utter nonsense.
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I assume you do not live in the South? The sizes of meals are amazing and the prices incredibly low. In Russia a slice of bread is a menu item.
Try Smith & Wollensky in Chicago, on the river. Amazing sizes. And of course you can buy smaller sizes. I made a video of one enormous meal of very high quality. I have stopped commuting. My last touch down was my 58th time. I have been unexpectedly served a whole chicken, Chicago. Who eats a whole chicken? More than once. Blues Brothers was a comedy, a parody. Even the scallops are much bigger. And the world now has those giant Californian strawberries.
I remember Las Vegas when we only were offered only two sizes of omelettes, a 6 egg omelette or a 12 egg omelette. My wife asked for a one egg omelette, even two and the chef had no idea how to cook one. One year I would have a lobster and a bottle of Moet Chandon each breakfast. Yes, one whole week I wasted $20 on breakfast but an Australian lobster tail at $8 when we were paying $80 just for the same lobster. Then everything in Las Vegas was subsidized. And you are right, the 1.5kg T bone was the record. I was laughing when it was served and maybe prices have gone up around the world but it was always far cheaper in the US. So different to Paris and London. The huge sizes and low prices of meals in so many American cities was amazing, which is my entire point. And the 1 litre hot chocolate fudge sundae! Then they started putting a heart on the menus for health and encouraging more healthy eating. Obesity is a major problem in the US, especially among the poor.
As for prices, a big mac in the US is $3.57 and in Australia $6.60. Food is much cheaper, even allowing for exchange rate. And the size of people, even young people in the South was just amazing. They are much slimmer in California and downtown in the big cities. People are more aware of the problems of overeating but whoever invented curly fries should be facing criminal charges.
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Cue this guy
Tony.
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Picked at random
Las Vegas Steakhouse
Rib Eye Steak with Bone-in 22oz* $63
Longhorn (Our Special New York Cut) Extra Thick 24oz* $78 (0.7kg)
Porterhouse 24oz* $58
So yes, 1.5kg would cost $150 at these prices. I just do not know any other country where you can buy such a meal!
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And then there’s breakfast. With the calorific content of small nuclear bomb. So unlike the French.
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And I am not being critical. Just amazed. Even in WWII the US soldiers were much better fed than anyone else. It’s just that the American tradition of serving far too much good food is extraordinary in the world and obesity rates are a major health problem, especially in the South and rural communities.
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Her Majesty has perfected the art of shuffling her food around her plate without eating much of it. Think about the state occasions/dinners etc. she has to attend. It can be done.
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Possibly true, but how does one actually die from obesity? There is Pickwickian syndrome which contributes to respiratory failure. Then there is hypertension and diabetes type 2, but these are all contributing factors, not a primary cause of death,
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In most cases CV19 is not the primary cause of death in very old and comorbid patients, it just pushed the teetering over the edge. Just like the Flu did in 1919, 50 million, 10% of the ill, old, weak, malnourished, wounded were pushed over the edge by the flu. But in the 100 “waves”, cold & flu seasons that we’ve had since less than 400,000 have died.
The next CV19 “wave”, the next cold & flu season maybe a 100,000 will die but it will prove to be much less deadly than the flu.
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It’s horrifying to think how many people have died thanks to the USDA’s carb-heavy “Food Pyramid” propaganda.
Although I don’t like Michelle Obama’s politics, at least her “My Plate” initiative did reduce the recommended carbs which might help a few people. I give credit where due on that score.
Not quite as bad, but the mainstream medical industry spent decades downplaying the value of vitamin tablets … probably because of “Not Invented Here” syndrome. Hopefully we are past the worst of that now, most doctors will check your blood for all the common vitamins and mineral levels, simply because it’s easier to run the entire batch of tests than to just run one or two. Things are improving, even if we go forwards backwards at times.
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He’s tested positive….
He’s perfectly well…..
He has no symptoms….
Like the vast majority of anyone who ever tested + to Covid-19.
There are millions of over 70’s right now who are over 70 and positive for Covid-19 and will never even know.
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well Matty, you found 12 people who understood your message and liked it!
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According to the link the odds of death ratio is an estimate. Since the infection rate is still unknown it may be an exaggeration. Supposedly 90% of infected people are symptomatic, but again that might be an over estimate.
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They tested positive for covid. It doesn’t mean they have clinical symptoms of course, or will ever get them.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the DemocRATS deliberately infected him or those close to him with less security.
I wish them a speedy recovery in the event that they do develop clinical symptoms.
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They do now
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In Auckland, New Zealand, TVs NewsHub 10:45 news presenter headlined Trump’s hypocrisy in their 9:30PM tease: “President Trump who once called the Corona virus a hoax has tested positive for the disease,” he intoned, repeating a dogmatic distortion.
What President authorises the spending of billions of dollars on a hoax? Shame on NewsHub for repeating this old Fake News lie. See video of the campaign rally in question, here
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tim-graham/2020/03/04/snopes-oddly-rules-mixture-fact-fiction-trump-saying-coronavirus-was
I’m gathering insight on President Trump’s prognosis by monitoring FoxNews for the past seven hours. Given a prominent world leader with a Covid-19 diagnosis, he and his wife’s infected status gives us an opportunity to measure the innovative treatment tools available for the US President compared with, for example, PM Boris Johnson who suffered the same infection four months ago. Boris definitely laboured to recover from it, both while hospitalised and later on.
What might we expect?
First of all, Trump is tested daily. And Trump is likely to be quarantined up to 10 days. At a minimum, given a second test at day 6 or 7, perhaps less. 14 days has been the standard, but a negative retest may shorten this if receiving advanced treatment..
The President already has lost 4 or 5 friends in his riskier senior age group to the Coronavirus pandemic. And therefore, he habitually exercises social distancing, according to FoxNews morning host Brian Kilmeade.
Popular field reporter at FoxNews’ Doctor Marc Siegel adds that Trump may already getting treatment with zinc, Vitamin D, or antibiotic with HCQ. He already knows he has no reaction to HCQ, having taken that regime as a preventative early during the pandemic.
Given the pressures of both the Presidency and an important time-pressed re-election campaign, will Trump take more aggressive treatments and attempt to make his quarantine briefer? Current expert opinions differ.
Trump’s former White House Doctor is currently running for a House seat in Congress, and he thinks, “No.” He was asked about this possibility in an interview on FoxNews. He thinks that without symptoms, Trump won’t.
But earlier, also on FoxNews, the British raised Doctor and pulminologist Qanta Ahmed — who has treated Covid-19 patients in pandemic hit New York City from the beginning via New York University Medical Center at Langdon — thinks differently.
She thinks that since Trump’s status as a prominent world leader and patient and given his opportunity to benefit is so great that she would advise him to take convalescent plasma therapy. She states that she’s treated plenty of people Trump’s age, and even if asymptomatic, they have tested virus free within 72 hours after treatment.
https://www.foxnews.com/person/a/qanta-ahmed
This event is said to be a shock. I disagree — this is a surprise, not a shock. Treatment options have vastly improved since Boris Johnson’s distressing hospitalisation not many months ago. The near days ahead, through the weekend, ought to tell us more, sooner than later.
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Trump didn’t call covid a Trump, he said the fake scare mongering by Demonrats was a hoax.
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That’s what Orson meant by “repeating a dogmatic distortion”
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Those who hide the fact that HCQ and VIt. D (4000 UI/day minimum) stop the virus, did not think out the consequences of the public finding out.
It appears France is using something. likely HCQ and zinc to reduce the covid death rate in France by more than a factor of ten.
The French second covid wave is more than twice as severe as their first wave and the covid death rate is roughly ten times less.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
There is no longer majority support for forced locked downs in the America and in Europe.
There is real public anger growing concerning the effort to push covid fear and the fact that was zero official effort to find the HCQ zinc covid cure.
This makes complete sense (that the medical industry hid the vit. D results) as correcting the population’s Vit, D deficiency would stop covid and cure roughly 70% of the so called chronic diseases, including 70% of the common cancers.
People are going to go to jail for what they did and there is going to be changes in government,
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Lockdowns and restrictions appear to make things worse in the UK
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8797761/How-Covid-19-infection-rates-DOUBLED-local-lockdown-areas-England.html
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Madrid back into lockdown again after eight months of masks and on ff lockdowns they have the highest nfection rates in Europe
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8799353/Madrid-goes-lockdown-tonight-continents-worst-infection-hotspot.html
What evidence do we have that masks and lockdowns work?
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Should trump have worn a mask?
Best thing is social distancing and hand washing and trying to avoid contamination from surfaces. Mask wearing highly debatable or is likely to cause contamination according to latest news from UK SAGE advisers
“Meanwhile, SAGE also advised the Government against making employees wear masks in offices because it believed adherence to the rules would be low.
The British Medical Association (BMA) has for months been calling for coverings to be compulsory in all work settings.
But SAGE said: ‘Contamination of face coverings is likely to increase with duration of wearing and therefore the risk of transmission via touching or surface contamination from more heavily contaminated face coverings could increase with time.
‘There is some evidence that extended duration wearing of face masks and face coverings can result in skin conditions such as acne or dermatitis for some people, but there is no data on the frequency or severity of this concern.
‘Issues of tolerability and minor adverse effects (e.g. thermal discomfort, minor skin irritation, glasses steaming) are likely to be the main limiting factors for duration of wearing of face coverings, and need to be factored into guidance on duration of use and likely adherence with advice.’
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He’s asymptomatic, not exactly ill. So I can’t say ‘get better soon’. Neither can I say ‘Don’t be negative, stay positive’. This puts well-wishers in a bind.
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Could just as well be an asymptomatic case of the flu. But as the world is not being tested for flu he’d just carry on as normal.
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https://swprs.org/covid-the-big-picture-in-7-charts/
interesting
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Thanks,
Interesting charts.
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Discussion of Ivermectin studies. We all have heard the death figures, but a couple of interesting findings :- ivermectin group had viral clearance in 4 days vs 15 days for control group. Out of hospital in 9 days vs 15 days. Testing weeks after leaving hospital, no complications v 33% with complications. And it seems ivermectin is a very serious anti viral, possibly being useful against an incredible range of virus’. And it costs 30c a dose! But rendesivir is the darling of the bureaucracies at $3000 a dose, and it does SFA! Go figure. Maybe there are some nice revolving doors into big pharma jobs? Also there are 50+ ivermectin trials around the world, one that wasn’t mentioned is in Aus, 3 in Spain, and 2 that haven’t begun yet in the USA. All the rest are in the 2nd and 3rd world.
Just shud up and listen to the experts!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSJRyYf01H8
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“the odds of death of those infected who are over 65 is 5.6%.”
But testing positive is very different from “being infected”. A person testing positive may
1) Have no Covid virus at all (false detection)
2) May have traces of virus present – perhaps from an earlier exposure
3) May have the virus present, but at such low numbers that they wouldn’t normally be counted as “ill”
4) May have very mild symptoms such as a cough
5) May have more serious symptoms
And it’s because these PCR tests are picking up virus at such a low level that no sane doctor would consider the person “ill” that we’ve had this insane response to covid. Because without the PCR test, there is almost no visible epidemic beyond the few who go into hospital – and the scale of that is very similar to normal flu.
And in terms of Trump, it means a person with no visible symptoms or illness, is being described as “ill” with a high chance of dying.
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Did anyone ask the paw-paw if it had any symptoms?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/coronavirus-tanzania-test-kits-suspicion-goat-pawpaw-positive-a9501291.html
The tests are overly sensitive and give a percentage of false positives. That in itself is not a reason to abandon testing … some information is better than no information. However, being cautious but sensible is preferable to freaking out. This is really the first time such sensitive tests have ever been used in bulk for any worldwide virus propagation … so yes, normal flu probably would give quite similar statistics if anyone had bothered to go and do the millions of PCR tests back during the H1N1 outbreak. The flu also kills a lot of old people … who always of course die of something. The current generation of old people in Western countries are the oldest generation of people (statistically) to ever have lived in history. We don’t have a whole lot of reasons to feel ashamed about the quality of our lifestyle … even if we have not yet defeated death entirely.
In this particular case, a bunch of separate people around the White House have tested positive all around the same time, thus it is unlikely these are all false positives. I would say there is a real risk here … a real small risk. This won’t stop the nutbags on Twitter from howling victory cries, but having a place to vent their hate at least makes it easier for the rest of us to get on and ignore them.
By the way, the greatest medical advancement that added more years to human life than any other was achieved by engineers, not by doctors. I’m talking about building sewage systems and clean water supply (i.e avoid drinking your own turds). These projects go back to Roman times but the engineers of Victorian Brittan were generally considered to be he heroes of the modern world when it came to water management. Admittedly it was a doctor who suggested the idea.
You can put all the rest of medicine, with elaborate treatments and what have you, up against clean water and a functional sewage system and the entire medical industry achieves a less significant outcome. Something to get the sense of perspective right.
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he has symptoms so he is on 4 and 5
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I doubt the election turns on anything the candidates do in the last month, within normal limits that is. This is a feature of the extreme polarization.
50
Trump does not look overweight to me. He looks like a naturally large person. What are his height and weight?
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6’3″ or 1.9m height.
17 stone 6lbs or 244lbs or 110.7kg weight.
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Well I am 6’2″ and 210 and not heavily built, so if he is overweight it is just by 10 to 20#, which is not much.
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This study was just published and concludes HCQ is not effective for prophylaxis in health care workers.
But why do all of these studies preclude zinc supplementation of 25mg elemental zinc per day as required by the Zelenko protocol? This has always been stated to be part of the HCQ treatment regimen by its proponents.
Until HCQ prophylaxis is tested with zinc exactly according to the Zelenko protocol we will not know. How hard could it possibly be?
A cynic might conclude that these trials are deliberately sabotaged.
Details of the Zelenko prophylaxis and treatment protocol and other info. Can be found here:
https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/index.html
Paper about prophylaxis in health care workers:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2771265
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For what it’s worth: hydroxychloroquine is itself a mild anticoagulant and also assists in the control of inflammation. That is why it gets used in low doses for auto-immune diseases such as lupus or arthritis.
Vitamin C and Zinc are things just about everyone should take every day unless you have a specific reason not to.
The combination Zinc, Hydroxychloroquine, and Azithromycin (Zelenko protocol) is essentially equivalent to ICAM.
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Funny watching the party of Obama health care wishing people would die.
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That of course is a natural reaction by much of the left. It’s really ironic how we see so many leftists groups go out of their way to create havoc and violence yet we see very little of it coming from the extreme right. Both are of course evil but doesn’t anyone else see the irony of it all, especially since the left keep criticising the right for doing things they actually rarely do while the left do it with much zeal? Perhaps it comes down to one difference between the rabid left and the extreme right. The former are clueless while the latter are smarter (but still evil).
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It’s sad that the medical establishment and government is now so close-minded or so corrupt that it is mostly not prepared to consider simple, cheap, effective treatments like ICAM, HCQ and many others.
It is a vaccine or nothing. And until and if a vaccine is developed (somewhat questionable), ongoing economic and social destruction will continue to occur in Western countries.
The destruction will be greatest in Australia because, with globalist governments at all levels, Australia is one of the world’s most fanatical believers in the global warming hoax and now one of the world’s most oppressive countries with respect to covid-related restrictions such as lockdowns and banning HCQ etc.. (Victoria in particular).
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Donald Trump now in military hospital for precautionary reasons plus treatment.
https://kwwl.com/2020/10/02/white-house-doctor-trump-received-experimental-antibody-cocktail-remains-fatigued/
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He should be taking melanin, and declare himself the second Black president.
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He’s certainly done more for black Americans and all Americans than the first one.
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I just have to complement Jo on the very astute use of punctuation in the following part of her post. “…. after one of the President’s closest advisers, Hope Hicks, contracted the infection.”
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If President Trump and Melania come through this and without damage, you can expect a great lift in his vote.
It would be the worst thing possible, to make a hero of survivor and hero Trump, to align him with all those who have gone through this terrible thing. He didn’t wear a mask but then neither do Biden or Pelosi.
I note Pelosi has just agreed to the latest Covid relief bill from the Senate as the airlines are laying off 50,000 people. She did this last time the day after Trump was impeached. The Democrats are doing their best to make the people suffer under Trump and as Biden says, he left a booming economy and Trump wrecked it.
So the Democrats under Pelosi are still the wreckers of the economy but they have a dilemma if they do not all wish Trump and Melania a speedy recovery. The sympathy vote will be enormous, no matter what happens. Democrat attacks on Trump and his family at this time would be a disaster. Every which way they lose.
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Slack measures to protect himself from a disease is hardly heroic. The bone spurs didn’t help this time.
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Oh, the hatred runs deep in you, doesn’t it, Gee Aye?
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You are right. He would be far safer hiding in his basement than doing his job.
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political campaigns are not his job. Effective disease control and doing his job are not mutually exclusive. Well, OK, they are if you are disorganised and don’t pay attention to advice.
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And when exactly would you have banned flights from China GeeAye ?
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I mean the huge amount of information out there that one can draw upon to have a covid free whitehouse. I don’t really see how you jumped to that rhetorical question but I’ll answer it anyway. I don’t know.
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“Effective disease control” your words Leaf , so your saying he wasn’t doing his job effectively therefore seems like a reasonable question and not rhetorical at all .
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It’s just that “herd” thing moving along.
It’s going to confront all of us some day.
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About those ‘bone spurs’ gee aye, are you aware that Joe Biden also received a 1-Y deferment (available for service only in the event of national emergency) … the same as President Trump?
Biden’s 1-Y was issued on April 5th 1968, Trump’s 1-Y was issued on 15th October 1968. Biden’s 1-Y was issued because he apparently suffered from asthma as a teenager, despite him playing football and working as a lifeguard in high school. In his memoir, “Promises to Keep”, he never mentions he suffered from asthma as a teenager.
Biden received five student draft deferments and a medical exemption, Trump received four student draft deferments and a medical exemption.
On 17th February 1972, Trumps 1-Y was reclassified 4-F (not qualified for military service).
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whataboutism
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This site is becoming more and more like The Weekly World News…. After so many years of debunking the climate change myth it now resorts to the same conjecture and scare tactics to maintain a now questionable storyline. Yes – POTUS and FLOTUS have WuFlu – so what? “Significant odds of impairment and fatigue”? For a scientific blog to make such a loosely determined statement is beginning to sound like a Chris Whitty press conference. Jack Nicklaus and his wife contracted WuFlu in March but that didn’t make the news on this site – nor did their recovery. Nicklaus is 80 years old and his wife late 70’s But in order to maintain the negativity around the pandemic in which caseloads increase markedly every day whilst death rates remain stubbornly flat feels like a dereliction of principles to me.
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I think the global impact of the implications of the president being impaired are worth being aware of. Jack Nicklaus not so much.
I think you had a point to make but you lost your way there.
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From what we hear, The President, and several past presidents, have often been paired.
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The comment was not so much about a comparison between the relative importance of the 2 individuals but the over emphasis of the potential effects of WuFlu on 2 elderly gentlemen. I mentioned Nicklaus to provide some balance to my statement. The articles on this site are indicative of something approaching a COVID mania and it does seem to me that Jo is trapped within her own narrative and unable to look objectively at other possibilities ie that it is comparative in effect to a bad seasonal flu.
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Why didn’t you compare him to Boris Johnson?
Oh. You were being selective
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Hardly. The original article painted a bleak picture of a potential outcome for an elderly gentleman contracting WuFlu – most of the posts by Jo on this subject follow a similar pattern. In trying to offer a balanced view I merely passed an observation on a different scenario for another elderly gentleman. No more no less…..
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Still, the upshot is that you are for herd immunity.
WuFlu was intelligently designed in the Wuhan Institute and some larrikin released it into the fish market. I’m for elimination and opening up the Trans-Tasman Bubble.
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I am for keeping an open mind as the data becomes more reliable. Perhaps the virus was intelligently designed. Perhaps this site has more than its fair share of conspiracy theorists – who knows? As the data sets improve and our knowledge increases it might be wise to consider more realistic options as opposed to maintaining an entrenched position with a one size fits all model – you know just like the one currently being enacted in the Victorian bubble. You may find some challenging facts in the following….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac&feature=youtu.be
https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/10/government-has-never-been-so-big-and-yet-so-incompetent/
https://mises.org/wire/absurdity-covid-cases
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Its too late Nez, the whole country is going for elimination and I support the motion. You see its enlightened self interest, out here in the regions things are really picking up fast thanks to international border closures.
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It’s all the same story. Misinformation and the world communist assault on democracies. Wu Flu is not infectious, person to person from Tedros Adhanom chief of WHO in January this year. Pelosi in China town in San Francisco arguing fear of the virus was silly and calling it a Chinese virus from China was ‘Extreme Xenophobia.’ Climate Change pushed by the IPCC and the UN, another pan national organization gone feral, trying to be a world government not a forum.
There are few standing against world socialism, the word totalitarians use. Like Maduro and Castro. Certainly not the communist overrrun media outside blogs like this. Even Hollywood has finally gone communist, as was threatened in the 1950s. And if Trump loses his life, the Chinese plan for world domination takes shape with the world’s largest country and second largest economy planning to conquer by stealth, money and infiltration. Supported by so many in the media. We all fear an imminent attack on the democracy in Democratic Taiwan, which was never historically part of China. It is so reminiscent of Germany and the Sudatenland. Is world war unthinkable, no.
Climate Change is utterly fake news. Which is why Trump is so important to so many scientists around the world. And Chinese Wu Flu nearly killed UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and now may kill US President Donald Trump. Get the picture? And it was created and released by the Chinese military. At what point does war have to be declared? 1C will not kill you, but perhaps the tenth in succession of killer Chinese viruses might. Especially with WHO out of the picture. The world is on a knife edge and this all matters so much more than a natural increase in a tiny gas. Fake science.
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Perhaps the biggest strategical mistake made by the CCP was to announce that they would withold medicines from America and Europe. That real threat alerted every country, including Australia, to the real threat behind a pandemic. Even today Australia is running very short of pharmaceuticals because of the go slow on our wharves engineered by the MUA/CFMEU, just as in WWII. And Morris is talking about bringing medical manufacture home. And as Balsonaro, Johnson and Trump recover from the Chinese virus spread by massive Chinese tourism and students, the world has to wake up to the reality of bio and economic warfare, another Blitzkreig but more like a Sitzkreig. Just wait while your enemies fall apart.
Climate Change will now fade. It crippled Western energy supplies, distracted politicians and sold a lot of Chinese windmills and solar panels. The next phase is starting, as in Turkey with the plans on Syria and now the breakaway province of Armenia against Azerbaijan, supported by Turkey. Xi sees himself as the new Mao, determined to eclipse him. Nepal, Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan. And Erdogan is the new Sultan of Istanbul and head of Islam. The very dream held by Osama Bin Laden.
The world is in a very dangerous place after so many years of relative peace. A world government would be a totalitarian communist government, as envisaged by the UN and the Democrats under Biden, Sanders and Harris and Warren and AOC and British Labor under Corbyn. They do not even hide it.
Yes, this blog of concerned citizens and citizen scientists is worried about the US President and what he means to the free world. Again.
Climate Change? Political Science Fiction, which has served an evil purpose.
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The very fact that the world has gone 75 years without a major multi-national conflict on a global scale, is what has enabled the rats to become so entrenched that they are now the dominant element in so many of our institutions. There is nothing like a war to expose them as they are forced to take sides. Luckily for modern society, they have always been on the losing side. Now, however, they are much emboldened and more numerous, so it has never been more important to ensure they do not flourish. If they insist on pursuing their current policy of outright confrontation, the rat catchers will be more than up to the task of eradication, hopefully forever.
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If as claimed by some, President Trump was taking HCQ and presumably zinc for prophylaxis, firstly, it is not clear he was still taking it. Secondly, if he was taking it, is it possible to still get a positive PCR test result while taking HCQ/zinc which will give a positive result even with a vanishingly small viral load that may never lead to symptoms?
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Q. Depends on the Ct used – the viral load.
We are never told what it is (?).
In this connection, would Gee Aye tell us what Ct is used by the pcr tests within his experience?
Is it recorded? Who sets it and how often?
HCQ used, not from what we are told directly. I understand tho’ (usual unreliable sources) that HCQ is in general use in the US military.
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sure. First, what is Ct?
In answer to DM. Yes, PCR will detect tiny amounts that could well be below anything meaningful wrt active infection. This is well known and is a property of the test.
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Thank you for that.
Ct, the cycle number when the fluorescence of a PCR product can be detected above the background signal. (https://toptipbio.com/ct-value-qpcr/)
Ct, or maybe C subscript T, a sensitivity indicator related to the number of amplifications.
The Ct could be an indicator of viral load.
With a positive result then-
low Ct (say 30?) then high infection,
high Ct (say 40?) then low infection.
Some of the above are my definitions, please correct as needed.
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I have actually not read the RT parameters but 30-40 cycles is quite high. Also it is not just the fluorescence that matters but the specific melt curve. This is not really appropriate for quanitifcation – given the variables in collection all you would be quantifying is how much is in the swab not the person.
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As an update
“Mr Trump will spend a few days in Walter Reed National Military Medical Center as a precaution and on advice of his physicians who have also injected him with an “antibody cocktail”.
He was given a single 8 gram dose of Regeneron’s experimental drug, which is in clinical phases, and has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and a daily aspirin.”
From the New Daily
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And from Twitter (Jim Acosta CNN)
Trump adviser said there is reason for concern about Trump’s health tonight. “This is serious,” the source said. The source went on to describe Trump as very tired, very fatigued, and having some trouble breathing. WH officials continue to say Trump will be fine.
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Oh, if it’s from Jim Acosta and CNN via Twitter it must be true…
It’s no surprise Trump is tired. His schedule of events and rallies would tire a man half his age. Not to mention also that all the evil people in the world are against him and actively sabotaging everything he does.
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So first he was a heroic strong man and now he is tired due to not being able to keep up with his schedule?
Name these evil people
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CommieCrats are Marxist Leftists. There is no mistaking their platform nor policy committments these days.
The “Media” are their Praetorian Guards, their Think Tank and Cheer Leaders.
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wow. A made up group of people is another made up conspiracy group. Interesting.
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Jim Acosta also tweeted this as President Trump was boarding Marine 1 at the WH;
What a maroon!
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There is video of Trump here, boarding Marine 1 an his way to hospital. He looked fairly normal. No problem breathing as far as I could see.
He walked 50m to the Helicopter, saluted and climbed up the steps on hi own with no assistance and no one nearby to help.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/
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This is like looking at a nature documentary and concluding that the ecosystem and everything within it is OK.
You took his pulse too? Measured his lung capacity and blood oxygen levels?
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As opposed to inspecting a couple of square meters of reef while ignoring the surrounding hundreds of square meters in order to proclaim that “the reef is dying”
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That would be a poor thing to do scientifically if someone ever did that, but worse it is a poor analogy. Why? Because if you looked at the president and thought he looked dead you would likely be correct that there is something wrong. On the other hand looking at him and thinking he looks well is poor evidence for concluding he is well.
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If you looked at the video and thought Trump looked dead, then you really do have issues.
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and here getting off the helicopter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTTot_e1oiI
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He looked fine getting off the ‘copter. I was half expecting him to carry his own bag but that wouldn’t be protocol.
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He did indeed look fine. No helpers. He descended the steps and strode across the lawn. No hint of infirmity.
Also look how much work his aides were bringing for him to do in the Presidential Suite at the Walter Reed hospital.
The Professor’s argument that looking very ill likely means you are ill but looking well does not imply anything is not very sound.
Actually I have noticed a degree of excitability and frequency about his comments over the past few days which I have noticed once or twice before. Is he taking his Lithium?
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Former White House counselor Kellyanne Conway announced late Friday night that she has tested positive for the coronavirus, joining a growing list of White House officials, GOP lawmakers and people in the president’s inner circles who became infected over the past week. Conway participated in the Rose Garden event last Saturday in which President Donald Trump nominated Judge Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court. Photos show her, unmasked, in a large crowd of people — sitting just feet away from Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) and first lady Melania Trump, who have also tested positive, and mingling with top cabinet officials including Attorney General Bill Barr.
Basically the first 2 rows of the Rose Garden event have tested positive.
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Good video by Dr Steve Turley about the consequences of Trump’s Covid infection.
https://youtu.be/1yuoU6kUZJ0
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I watched a video this morning of Joe Biden talking about the debate; he coughed, and coughed, and coughed (tho not into his elbow) – a classic symptom of WuFlu infection.
I’m hoping for the best of outcomes for him – he’s Trump’s best asset in the presidential race. But if he, Biden, has the worst of all possible (and likely) outcomes, hey, every post is a winner!
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Headline Trump gets experimental antibody cocktail at Walter Reed Hospital.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/10/02/president-trump-given-experimental-antibody-cocktail/
To follow up on my FoxNews info post some 15 hours ago on treatments for Trump compared to PM Boris Johnson four months ago: it now seems that Dr Ahmed, experienced with Covid-19 critical care in New York City, is now proved correct.
She expected that the best treatment for an at risk world leader would be this treatment, which should result in his quick recovery and moving back to the political campaign in days, not weeks.
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Jo
The figure you quote of 5.6% death rate for the over 70s is, I believe, false.
I saw the CDC mention this figure in their 10th Sept report. But the CDC have also stated that 94% of victims of covid have comorbidities. We have so many hospitals and medical professionals just waving through a “died of covid” finding if the person had covid, when we need to refer to that 94% figure, and realise many will be falsely identified as dying FROM covid when they did WITH covid. I am told that Brendan Murphy has instructed our medical professionals similarly to write any who die WITH covid as dying OF covid, which, if true, is horrifying. (if anybody know here please inform us)
In truth due to comorbidities the death rate for the over 70s FROM COVID could be as low as 0.34% (5.6 x 0.06). And the 5.6% figure is the very worst case scenario – and therefore not true.
The link below may also be of interest to others here. In it the author decodes the frequently wrong terminology related to “infections”, “cases”, “death rates” etc. He also refers to latest Icelandic testing which he believes is heading us towards a real death rate overall of around 0.1%. Definitely worth a read – covid is less of a risk as more research arrives….
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/04/covid-why-terminology-really-matters/
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I dont think that trying to distinguish “from” vs “with” in older (or younger for that matter) is helpful as a way of denying the effect of the disease. In Trumps case of course he has co-morbidities as most older people do. Its like saying lots of old people are fat or have less than perfect organs or blood pressure therefore they are not dying of Covid. They are dead, and probably would not be if they didnt catch the disease. If Trump dies, are we to say he didnt die, beause he was fat, and is therefore not dead. It appears he was most likely to continue living for some time longer if he had not caught Covid, but if he dies it was not a covid death because he was fat? Given the disease causes multiple organ issues, appears to be an endothelial disease that causes blood clots all through the body, it is hard to tease apart lung and organ damage and strokes from covid vs from non-covid. The fact that the disease does cause systemic problems, and is not a flu or just or even mostly a respiratory disorder, doesnt mean people arent dead who probably would be alive if they didnt get it. I am not saying the figures are not messed with, medical issues are so political today. For example, I remember a youtube clip from a young nurse. She said people were comming in with panic attacks, being put in the covid ward because of symptoms, getting covid from the other patients, and dying from covid (and probably the treatment regime of ventilation used at the time) and then the hospital got $38,000. That is political death. If someone was in their mid eighties, was not well, got covid, and died earlier than they otherwise would have, doesn’t mean its not a covid death. It is a waste of money and a risk to health professionals to autopsy lots of people for a meaningless statistic. Either someone is going to die, or live. No individual has an X% chance of living or dying – their chance is either 0 or 1.
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Points made by Plain Jane:
-distinguishing ‘from’ and ‘with’ not helpful. they are dead and probably would not be if they had not caught the virus
-people come in to hospital with panic attacks, they are put in the covid ward, catch covid, and die from covid.
Hospital gets $38,000 as patient died from covid.
(The other points are unclear to me)
So we conclude that patients do die from covid and not from other causes and not from a mixture of causes.
This conclusion is misleading for policy and action (and wrong).
A better conclusion from that evidence would be that patients are being murdered with covid as the weapon. Then there are the related causes which gave those people panic attacks such fear-porn in the media, the lockdowns, closure of parks and beaches, and the gross behavior of tyrannical governments.
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I have to disagree here. Inaccuracy with covid figures obscures the true picture.
See link below. This is a real issue and is used by alarmists and the media all the time. Time for accuracy and objective reporting.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/doubts-raised-over-accuracy-of-victorias-coronavirus-death-toll/news-story/6e4c77fb8c0425ea854f8445845db264
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Wow, the left is (pre-emptively) dancing on his grave. The thinly veiled glee of their reporting of this is gross.
Blaming him for getting sick, saying he deserved it for attending rallies, and speaking in public. Plenty of the hard line left wishing him dead on twitter. Showing their true colours.
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oh….
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