The Guardian is a study in delusional arrogance. Consider this weeks headline pronouncement from the anonymous “Guardian Staff”:
“The climate emergency is here. The media needs to act like it”
..
Wrapped in so few words — ponder the vainglorious conceit embodied in such a headline. One, that Guardian “staff” are the judge and jury of a complex science, that they can prophesy the future climate, choose which experts are right, and feel that they know more than the Nobel Prize winning physicists, atmospheric chemists and professors of climate who disagree. Two, that “the media” are supposed to save the world from their own decreed emergency by making policy pronouncements, silencing opponents, and overriding elected officials. Three, that they unfailingly know what’s best for the stupid voting masses.
What the media needs is to eat humble pie and start doing their jobs.
If they were only smart enough to recognize their own failings they might start investigating the issues of the day with an open mind, serious questions, and report the smartest arguments made by the most informed commentators on all sides of the issues that matter.
These are our Upperclass wannabee rulers
How stupid must they think the rest of humanity. Oh, if only the unwashed had the vision of the self-annointed Genius Guardian rulers. Did any of these writers even pass double maths in high school?
Not for the Guardian writers the tough road of appealing to voters, listening to other points of view, studying the numbers, the costs or the physics. Instead, they want the seductive easy road to being rulers. This is the cry from the 120-IQ’ers, smarter than average, but too stupid to know how little they know. Too arrogant to listen to maths nerds or engineers. And too bigoted and intolerant to listen to the workers and consider their point of view.
The Guardian editors are the mediocre wordsmiths who were fooled by a fashion trend. Now, those who have forgotten what “the media” is even supposed to do, think they can tell the rest of their profession how to do their jobs.
Glory be! Lordy — The Guardian speaks for Planet Earth itself:
Ahead of Earth Day, the Guardian is partnering with newsrooms around the world in a joint initiative calling on journalists to treat the climate crisis like the emergency [we Arts grads think] it is.
When the world shut down last year, there was one big beneficiary: the planet.
If only The Guardian writers knew High school science — they’d know megafires can only occur where there is too much fuel, not where there is too much desert.
We are in an emergency. California is on the brink of drought, prompting fears of a new wave of devastating megafires later this year. Rising temperatures could soon make the planet’s tropical regions unlivable for humans.
And they might understand that temperatures in the tropics are limited by the giant evaporative air conditioner that keeps tropical oceans at 30 – 32C. The tropics won’t get hotter in a warming world, the warm humid conditions will just spread further into the temperate zones. More coral reef, more rainforest! The tragedy…
The only thing they “investigate” is whether other people are following their own decrees on Planet-management:
Yet a Guardian investigation recently found that only a small number of major countries have been pumping rescue funds into a low-carbon future.
Maybe people aren’t buying the Guardian dictats because the “low-carbon” future The Guardian imagines is a barren impoverished wasteland of futile hopium which benefits no one but the self-serving corporates which offer these expensive solutions to problems that don’t exist? Could be…
Yet they imagine they are “setting trends in language”. Spin doctors unite:
Two years ago, the Guardian announced it was changing the language it uses to talk about the environment, eschewing terms like “climate change” for the more appropriately urgent “climate emergency”. Today, we are joined by others in the news industry, organizations that recognize that a global catastrophe is already here, and that without immediate action, it will get unimaginably worse.
Thus verily and Lo! The Guardian hath forecast doom and the richest most bountiful time in human history “is a catastrophe”. An Emergency!
With more food available to the human species than has ever been made and fewer people per capita dying of natural disasters than at any point in the last hundred thousand years, the only “emergency” is the destruction of English and history.
The real question here is why even a slice of the population pay to read this arrogant voodoo. And it might be that it fills a spiritual void, giving the rich and listless “a purpose” and a cheap way to salve their guilt. Or it might just be that The Guardian is selling a fashionable social drink people use to pump themselves up the pecking order.
Image: The Northern Gods Descending 1890.
What Climate Emergency? Where? What exactly is the problem? Climates change without there being a problem. Sea temperatures go up and down with the massive store of heat in the ocean, 1400x that in the thin air and with the known oscillations, the 65 year cycle AMO/PDO Pacific oscillation of a giant ocean up to 11 km deep which covers half the planet. Combine that with the 200 year solar cycle known as DeVries and the temperatures of the last 250 years are fully explained to amazing accuracy. See Prof Weiss at 12:24 and the extraordinary fit to the known temperatures. Back to the Little Ice age in just 30 years. Ice skating on the Thames.
So again, what exactly is the problem? Without any other explanation needed, simple curve fitting with two strong well known cycles shows we are in for a rapid cooling phase now. So we should be prepared. We will need all the coal, oil and gas we can mine.
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The boy who cried ‘wolf’ until nobody listened anymore is the point we are at with our media and colluding politicians.
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TdeF asked “What Climate Emergency” given the obvious lack of one .
He can’t have heard The Secretary General of the United Nations, Antonio Guterrez, that well-known and signally well-qualified Klimate Scientist, who said there was one. Ergo, there `must’ be one, and, as the S.G. instructed, all nations should declare one.
Jacinda, the head mouthpiece of Jacindaland, dutifully (if thoughtlessly) declared a “Klimate Krisis” in NZ’s Parliament (I didn’t realize the Air Con in The House was that bad!) like the dutiful little UN Groupie she is. I wonder if she realised the Golden Platter she was bequeathing the Insurance Industry?
As you so accurately put it, TdeF: Crisis? What Crisis?
There’s no emergency. The World’s population can’t see one, just the climate doing what the climate does, so the UN’s Climate Scare Publisher, the Grauniad, has to run around like a headless chook to try and give the Big Scare some muscle. At least one or two citizens of NZ and Australia had the stupidity to agree but certainly not a crowd.
I gave up reading any and all articles in that piece of dross decades ago in the previous century after realizing its existence was predicated purely by sensationalism. It’s worse than tabloids … so I go elsewhere.
The Grauniad is fact-free, truth-free, science-free and accurate not. Just like the UN Secretary General.
(Guardian staffers must be paid to be Creative. Maybe continued employment requires it …)
The big hoax of the twentieth Century was Piltdown Man. It appeared first in 1912, and was finally buried, without honours in
1953, after carbon dating. ‘Klimate in a Crisis’ has lasted since about 1986, with the resurrection of the 19th Century ideas of Arrhenius, or the last 35 years. Piltdown Man lasted 41 years, which lesser hoaxes, such as Y2K, fell short of. Maybe we have about another five years or so before this `Test Your Gullibility” wears out. We can hope.
Here’s a good paper to help disimprove gullibility:
https://principia-scientific.com/publications/PROM/PROM-Macdonald-Quantum-Raman-Atmosphere.pdf
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Hmm. I left out all </sarc> tags. I hope I’m sufficiently obvious …
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If it wasn’t for a significant injection of Gates’ money, the Grauniad would probably have gone broke.
Gates ostensibly only funds the Oversea Development section of the Grauniad, but I suspect that is just a pretext, and his funding goes far deeper than that.
Anyway, whatever the level of Gates funding, it is enough to give him a huge leverage over the paper’s content.
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Has it improved its proofreading? Urban Dictionary made a clanger.
I love Urban Dictionary. I’m somewhat behind the times.
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I try as hard as I can, not to read the rag – in the hope that it will go broke through lack of readership.
But on the few occasions when I do read it, my impression is that the typos are not as bad as they used to be. What with spellcheck and the like, you’d have to be pretty thick to make the sort of clangers they managed to drop in the past.
Still, the “Grauniad” name is a fixture now.
And many other kinds of malpractice remain. While sloppy spelling might be a thing of the past, sloppy reporting and outright lies are still a problem there.
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The Guardian is worth about £700 – 800m. The money is in the Cayman Isles last time I looked.
30
The only climate emergency is the unwarranted fear of CO2 induced catastrophic climate change that not only isn’t happening, is precluded by the laws of physics from ever happening. The result of this fake fear is to promote ‘climate reparation’ policies that are targeted to destroy the economies of the developed world to the benefit of the developing world.
They fail to understand that trickle down works in both directions and if the developed world’s economies are trashed, the developing worlds economies will fall even harder.
While the economic consequences are harsh, the attack on the scientific method is far worse as it reverts science to the dark ages where magical assumptions ruled when understanding failed.
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This is the question that I posit to ABC viewing alarmists when the topic arises. They don’t have an answer other than to roll their eyes and suggest that climate change is everywhere and that the Great Barrier Reef is dying or already dead. This is despite the Queensland Tourism Board running numerous marvelous ads about visiting the Reef.
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I thought the Great Barrier Reef WAS dead. The Sydney Morning Herald said it would be so by the end of 1971.
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The alternative way to see The Reef is a visit to Reef HQ in Townsville [currently undergoing an upgrade] or the Cairns Aquarium.
Only takes half a day.
No sea sickness.
Cheaper.
Much more variety than I saw on my last trip.
The weather up here is perfect ATM. Do yourself a favour. lol
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The Californian drought is temporary, caused by La Nina.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-09-11/what-does-la-nina-mean-for-californias-drought
This is not the end of the world folks, our forefathers and sisters coped and so will we. There is nothing new under the sun.
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Yes. But La Nina and El Nino are just the largest manifestations of the PDO. Every time the absurd atmospheric only CO2 models get it completely wrong, they blame La Nina or El Nino. Perhaps someone should start to think that if you cannot predict this oscillation in ocean surface temperature, your science is irrelevant and utterly inadequate. And CO2 is irrelevant.
The point I have made many times is that as the entire atmosphere weighs only as much as the first 10 metres of water, oceans on average 3.4km deep have 340x as much stuff in weight alone. And at 4x the heat capacity, all our heat and weather ultimately comes from the oceans and the direct sun, not the air. Unfortunately people see the weather as an air phenomenon. Without the oceans, the only weather we would have would be dust storms.
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Willis Eschenbach has an interesting theory that the PDO is an emergent phenomena that cools the surface of the pacific ocean.
El Nino; Warm waters off the west coast of the americas build up (and wreck the fishing off Chile). When it gets warm enough strong trade winds arise which push the warm water westward to PNG and Indonesia. The warm water spreads north and south radiating the heat outward to space. Cool water from the deep emerges off the coast of Chile and cools the whole of the pacific ocean. (La Nina).
If Willis is correct the key to the PDO is a build up of heat in the pacific ocean.
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Ah Peter, you’ve got to luv thermodynamics!
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Nope, sorry TdeF, you’ll never rise to fame and be published in the Guardian by expressing such good sense.
It’s not Magic.
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Weather is a combination of atmosphere, oceans, and solar energy. Most people understand that, and don’t see weather as an “air phenomenon” only.
And in particular east-coast Australians (or at least the curious ones) are very familiar with La Niña and El Niño years.
And the ocean being heavier than air is not that relevant – global warming is being caused by an increase in atmospheric CO2 that traps heat trying to radiate from the earth – that is why they are called greenhouse gases.
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We know the AGW argument, but none of us believe it. There was more CO2 in the atmosphere during the Roman Warm Period, true or false?
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Gordo, I think Tilba is being sarcastic, well I hope he is, because basic rules say that air cools at 3F every 1000Ft and that is why it is -40C at 40,000ft.
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Murray,
Tilba squared will explain that the cold air up there is caused by all the heat being trapped near the surface by CO2.
Most AGW believers – like Tilba – are quite out of date in their science. That CO2 cannot trap heat for more than a miniscule time was explained in 1915 by Einstein, who joined Planck, Angstrom and Boltzmann in disputing Arrhenius’s claim. But then they haven’t caught up with Archimedes principle (about 2200 years ago) about why melting pack ice won’t raise the sea level.
Although I must say his claim that greenhouse gases trap heat was rejected only in the 1820’s by Fournier, who invented the term Greenhouse atmosphere but knew that it wasn’t possible for it to trap heat UNLESS a layer of the atmosphere became solid with a change in optical properties.
And implicit in his claim that the heating is only in the atmosphere, he must believe that Global Warming doesn’t cause the oceans to warm. I wonder how he explains melting ice in the Arctic.
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If CO2 did trap heat by any significant amount why is it cold at night warm during the day and cold at either end of the globe.
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But you are making the point that the overwhelming majority of climate scientists agree on … periods when CO2 concentrations are higher are warmer, because CO2 levels in the atmosphere trap heat. And CO2 level are rising fairly rapidly in the industrial era as we burn fossil fuels.
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So now you are talking ‘positive feedback’, in fact its the opposite, warmer temperatures release more CO2 from the oceans.
Its now generally accepted that as the world emerged from the Last Glacial Maximum, CO2 gradually followed the temperature trend.
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again with the release fallacy. Try to understand the relationship between temperature and equilibrium shifts. Plus, CO2 from human industry is observed and measured so it is hard to deny.
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Its just a coincidence that temperatures have been rising as human induced CO2 has been increasing. I remain a strong member of the Denialati.
Slightly O/T, note how the PDO is negative during the Medieval Warm Period. It must have been awfully wet in Oz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_decadal_oscillation#/media/File:PDO1000yr.svg
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I think positing coincidence is better than waving away solid observations of the [CO2] arising from human activities.
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Have you no intellectual curiosity about climate change? It has nothing to do with CO2 and this will soon be shown over the next five years as temperatures remain flat.
What is your forecast?
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Tilba:
Nobody disputes that CO2 is a GHG, or that an increased concentration of it, for whatever reason, will have some kind of effect. It’s the magnitude of the effect that is in question. There is little indication, from historical records as well as from a physics standpoint, that the effect is a large one. In all likelihood the “extra” 120-ish ppm of CO2, measured against the Holocene average, is having negligible to minor impact. Furthermore, what downside there is is offset by overwhelmingly positive side effects.
And who says a bit of warming is bad, anyway? Would you rather have today’s climate or that of the Little Ice Age? Or the REAL Ice Age? Warmth is life; cold is death. If you are a living creature, cold is your enemy.
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sorry feral but plenty here dispute exactly what you wrote. They explicitly do not believe any of the observations that support the theoretical physics that CO2 absorbs and emits IR. They just don’t believe it.
01
In addition, southern Californians forget they live in a desert. The present population can only live there because of the water stored in the northern mountains.
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Somebody please explain why the BOM tells us we will have very wet summer on the east coast of Australia, which, amazingly proved to be partially correct, except for some areas which experienced some seasonal flooding.
On the other hand when California has a “La Nina” weather pattern, California experiences drought.
The whole BS system of climate change will only receive more criticism if the Warmists can actually agree on the BS. Remember only those with an excellent memory are successful BS artists!
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To be sure we didn’t have TC affect the coast this summer contrary to BoM’s experts. Conditions for cyclogenesis were good with SST temperatures but the steering from easterly winds was not oriented. Still, good rains for many and for some – not so much. Interesting to compare rainfall decides for La Nìña events.
41
Deciles.
31
“Never let a crisis go to waste” and the WuFlu crisis has yielded all its low hanging fruit, so it is back to The Climate Emergency TM to keep the sheeple cowering, under control.
Just this week I read that The Climate Emergency TM* is back on the agenda. Seems whoever I read was right.
* How do I do subscript?
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The Klimate Emergency™.
Just use the tm in the options.
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‘The Climate Emergency™’
Hold ALT and type in 0153 😉
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there is & trade ;
Take out the two spaces either side of trade and don’t omit the ;
™
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I keep this page open as a tab in my browser for ready reference:
https://www.html.am/reference/html-special-characters.cfm
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Climate Emergency™
Thanks
31
Test °
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How is it Climate Scientists exclude Volcanoes?
https://www.iceagenow.info/emergency-emergency-emergency-antarctica-is-melting-oops-ohhhh/
Oh yes, hypocrisy by the politicians and media.
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H,
CNN is backing you up, confirming they and the Grunaid are on the same FEAR PATH and FEAR SELLS
https://www.projectveritas.com/news/part-1-cnn-director-admits-network-engaged-in-propaganda-to-remove-trump/
Frightened sheeple don’t think they follow the ram hearded by the baying hounds.
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Missed your post ColA. 😀
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It was, of course, CNN’s Technical Director, Charlie Chester. He says they beat the pandemic story to death but it will Climate Emergency now because it has legs.
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The climate scare is really not working.
Pretending you have an emergency when it’s the same failed prophecy of doom that’s been going, what 30 years now … people are fed up.
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When I was a lot younger I would have fine debates with the religious about whether God exists. Their “proofs” were all subjective but could be distilled down to “‘Cos I have faith.” The nastier ones would add something like “and you don’t.”
It was a peculiar kind of societal snobbery where the dumbest, poorest and most inept specimens of humanity could peer down their noses at those who did not share their faith and trumpet their superiority, moral and otherwise.
I find AGW believers to be exactly of the same mindset. People who can in one breath label you as being anti-Science and at the same time refuse to accept even the most basic facts about the physics and chemistry of CO2.
I have also found AGW believers to be largely monolithic in their outlook, they don’t do nuance at all, whereas “sceptics” have a very broad range of opinions on whether AGW theory is correct and on what to do about it.
I have zero respect for the cult of Anthropogenic Global Warming whereas at least for the religions it could be argued that despite the many harms which they have caused over the centuries at least some good did also occur.
I just hope Australia and the West snaps out of it soon, preferably before China decides to start World War III, or before my beloved Brisbane starts seeing snow.
20
The Guardian in Australia was set up by one Malcontent Turnbull
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https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/why-did-turnbull-keep-secret-his-role-in-creating-guardian-australia/news-story/760c8b4e4cb5f68ca95d3ac0d239a053?amp&nk=5d6a71d9f0f982c43ced8568735b8f05-1618394001
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Progressive yes, but calling The Guardian “hard left” is rather a stretch. Such terms are just becoming rote … essentially meaningless.
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The word ‘progressive’ gives them the feeling that they are ahead of their time, leading the charge, but in reality its Medieval thinking.
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This one is all spin. Conservatives have a right to complain about being labelled hard right. Your classical liberal has a right to complain when they complain about the left thought police and get called neo-right.
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Progressive NO, oppressive and regressive yes.
Terms like “global warming”, “atmospheric CO2 that traps heat”, “greenhouse gases”, “Klimate Kaos”,
and then there’s the ultimate useless rote meaningless word
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While ever the Scare is a money spinner for China and the western Elite the media holds the whole thing together.
Without the media, the cagw scare would collapse under the weight of Truth.
Journalists are safe as long as they keep confusing the voting, taxpaying public.
KK
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I hate with a passion the look-at-me crowd standing on a soap box of consensus. Only full of conviction because the consensus rock is a bigger one to crawl under if it all goes pear shaped.
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And of course the Guardian’s ‘Comment Macht Frei’ policy means they will not tolerate any dissenting comments on their views. Not that I would expect any of the Wokelings that make up their declining readership would have an opposing view anyway otherwise why would you be reading such drivel.
Sadly this climate emergency nonsense infects so many that the latest Quarterly Journal of Forestry published by the Royal Forestry Society has a piece moaning about why people are not leaping on the plant trees to save the world bandwagon. The basis it uses to justify the need for action is the fantasy world of RCP8.5 from the inaccurate climate models. How anybody can use this with a straight face is beyond me given that we would need open troughs of burning oil all over the planet to meet the RCP8.5 CO2 emissions scenario. I do note that the co-authors of the drivel do not give any indication of their background to judge whether they are ignorant of the problems with the model scenarios or are activists seeking to mislead by using RCP8.5.
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Sadly this climate emergency nonsense infects so many that the latest Quarterly Journal of Forestry published by the Royal Forestry Society has a piece moaning about why people are not leaping on the plant trees to save the world bandwagon.
It seems to me that planting a lot of trees (and halting the clearing of existing forests and woodlands) seems like a pretty sensible thing to do, and it doesn’t cost billions.
Plus a lot of pressure should be brought to bear on the Brazilians, to stop destroying the Amazon rainforests.
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Everything comes at a price, but the US can afford it.
https://www.ft.com/content/b8dfe545-0869-4de0-8ba6-1c7715c191cd
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Ooops …
‘Brazil has requested $1bn from western nations, which the country’s environment minister Ricardo Salles said would be used to reduce deforestation in the world’s largest rainforest by up to 40 per cent over the next 12 months.
“We already have a lot of results that could justify the receiving of something, if not everything, but something upfront,” Salles told the Financial Times.
21
Ah, yes. Tilba Tilba can relax with his first world conveniences while Brazilian third worlders Carlos and Bruna long for a better life for their ninos Ana and Carlos; But, they must live in poverty and despair because Al and Leo and JF Kerry and Tilba need to use their share of CO2 (and electrons) to save the planet.
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I agree with you that the clearing of the Amazon should be stopped by any and all means, but have you ever seen a greenie plant a tree.
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Tilba etc.
So you are against burning wood chips in European power stations? Drax in the UK get subsidies to help the chopping down of 200 year old forests in SE USA, and it only increases their CO2 emissions by 32%.
Denmark burns Russian and probably also Finnish and Slovakian wood. There is a million tonnes of wood sold by Russia every year to the EU (plus about half a million in bags for domestic use). Both Finland and Slovakia are worried about deforestation.
Nobody can destroy the environment faster than those claiming to save it.
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Tilba, plant all the trees you want, but remember that to make them grow requires a lot of CO2, warmth, and water, all elements that will come with the warming of the planet. Talk about putting the environment in a bind, wanting to reduce CO2. As a farmer I see increasing CO2 levels as a huge aid to growing our crops and feeding the planet. The minor increase in CO2 levels since the 70s, ditto the 0.5C increase in average global temps has seen the planet produce abundant food crops never before seen in our history.
Stop this catastrophism about “global warming” and recognise and enjoy the benefits that are flowing from it. Further recognise the acute problems associated with a cooling climate as outlined by Paul Ehrlich in his 1970 World Earth Day prophesies as to our future in that then cooling planet.
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Hear, hear. As an agricultural scientist I applaud you. The world is producing record crops of all the vital food products needed to feed our populations. Famine has been significantly reduced. Although development of new strains of critical crops has helped, there is no doubt that increased CO2 has had a significant effect on yields and ability to withstand drier conditions, where they occur.
30
‘What the media needs is to eat humble pie and start
doing their jobslooking for a [real] job.’172
Here AGAIN is Dr Christy’s talk at the GWPF where he puts their so called EMERGENCY to the test.
And OUR poorest continent has added another billion people since 1970 and all healthier and wealthier than they were 50 years ago. Their so called EMERGENCY is just more BS and FRA-D.
Dr Christy’s link has plenty of data and evidence to prove his points + graphs etc.
https://www.thegwpf.com/putting-climate-change-claims-to-the-test/
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Who is organizing this global initiative?
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Klaus Schwab and his herd of National Socialist ideologues.
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Don’t know who that is. There was an outfit a year or so ago that said they were “coordinating” climate emergency news. As I recall they said they had signed up 100 or 1000 outlets. I cannot remember who they were, but this sounds like the same conspiracy.
At least the Guardian openly admits doing advocacy instead of journalism. Plus global coordination to do it. A big story!
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Klaus Schwab and his herd of National Socialist ideologues.
Klem is pulling your leg David.
Klaus Schwab is head of the WEF (the Davos Annual Jamboree) and is the poster-bad-boy for every NWO conspiracy nutter … he is the father of the Great Reset™’, where the Gates/Soros killer vaccine will de-populate the world, and after the die-off those remaining will be serfs on the plantation.
There are variants, but that is the broad-brush core. “You will own nothing and you will be happy.”
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What is this Great Reset™ you speak of?
Is there evidence or is it a “NWO conspiracy nutter” fantasy that you made up?
“You will own nothing and you will be happy.” – Sounds like something a conspiracy nutter would make up.
Did TT make that up as well?
NWO conspiracy nutters. Does TT own a mirror?
Please provide links should you choose to reply.
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He is also the father of the modern day Stakeholder Capitalism movement, which is a resurrected ideology of 1930s National Socialism, and an ideology which a great number of Ozzie corporations have already gleefully adopted.
Most leaders of western nations follow the megalomaniacal Leftist Klaus Schwab, including Boris Johnson, Justin Trudeau and his Finance Minister, and US President Joe Biden.
I’m not pulling your leg.
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I agree. ‘Who’ is pushing the climate emergency? ‘Who’ can control/is controlling the media companies? ‘Who’ can control governments? Who controls the WHO?
The concept ‘Climate Emergency’ requires threatened, stupid, unquestioning, governments who do not know/care they are spending their countries to death…. On stuff that will not ‘work’ to get to the goal, regardless of amount spent.
The Climate emergency also required stopping the discussion of unsustainable spending and debt, in the media or during elections. Hiding and making up the science talking points. Hiding and making up engineering and cost estimates.
There is no Who. ‘Who’ is a person.
The most powerful, richest, ‘smartest’ ‘Thing’ in the world, developed the ‘anti-questioning’ ideology and gained control of the media to enable the concept of a climate emergency …. And forced spending on something that will bankrupt a country.
The Thing gained control of our universities, ended independent critical thought and analysis at the universities.
There will always be arrogant, smarmy, happy smug Zombies, who will unquestioning, learn and then, push the propaganda.
Soulless, Zombies/Traitors, believe the propaganda or can pretend they believe, to get all of the perks.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-china-coal/china-generated-over-half-worlds-coal-fired-power-in-2020-study-idUSKBN2BK0PZ
SHANGHAI (Reuters) – China generated 53% of the world’s total coal-fired power in 2020, nine percentage points more that five years earlier, despite climate pledges and the building of hundreds of renewable energy plants, a global data study showed on Monday.
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The Club of Rome. Also the mob that associate with the all- seeing eye of Isis.
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I have lived a life of little consequence.
I am likely to die in a severe packaging accident.
(Nearly severed an artery trying to open the dental floss just yesterday.)
Have little interest in engaging save for my furtive comments on Jonova.
So …
global warming and climate change is a political scam.
(The grandest of history so far.)
Easy to see just by looking a little bit.
Thanks again Jo.
It’s greatness or infamy will live only in it’s political and social impact, particularly it’s damage to science and academia.
So there, a inconsequential whisper.
I have some new electronics I must steal myself to attempt to unpackage today.
If you don’t hear from me, you’ll know.
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Thanks again Jo was meant to go at the end.
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John, unpack with care (no Stanley knives) and do not discard you current electronics till fully conversant with the new.
Voice of experience.
50
You might want to read the link here. https://www.projectveritas.com/news/part-1-cnn-director-admits-network-engaged-in-propaganda-to-remove-trump/
The link is to “Project Veritas” (and I cannot vouch for its reliability)
In it, a Project Veritas agent secretly records an interview with a CNN “Technical Director”. It kicks-off with a lot of delusional stuff about CNN’s pivotal role in “removing Trump”. (CNN preaches to the choir. To have been pivotal in removing Trump, it would have had to have had a large viewership of swing voters. I doubt if that was the case. What removed Trump was voting fraud, of course.)
But what is of more interest is the bit towards the end of the interview, where he says that, now that the ‘remove Trump’ objective has been achieved, CNN will be toning down the Covid scare stories and ramping-up the climate change scare stories.
The Grauniad and CNN seem to sing from the same hymn sheet. So, we can expect it too to start toning down the Covid scare stories and ramping-up the climate change scare stories.
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I’m thinking that the actual arrival of the climate emergency will be somewhat blurred by so many folks on the “climate spectrum” wanting it to happen in their time.
Sort of like so many preachers down though the ages thinking that the second coming had arrived and that they had actually had a role in it.
I predict that Greta will get her chance in about (12-2) years … might as well get used to hearing these premature
ejaculationspronouncements.Not exactly surprising that Malform’s Guard would be early on in this sacred timeline.
You can be sure this is one movement that will not follow Tantric practices.
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Gaia weeps!
Same song, one thousandth verse. The masses aren’t paying attention so time to turn up the volume to 11 and shout “fire.”
Part of me thinks that common sense will prevail in the end. People are tired of being yelled at. Their eyes and ears are telling them there is no “crisis,” and they know fear-mongering when they see it. Shaw might as well have had Greens in mind when famously described a fanatic as someone who “can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.”
On the other hand, while we were sleeping, the bright-Blue bright-normals took over all the major institutions AND the media, and infiltrated the centers of power with true believers.
Facts and logic are useless against ideologues. Satire and ridicule are pretty effective, though. Being the adult in the room isn’t enough. Time to get personal.
171
This is insane. If the climate were truly real then the world would be building nuclear power stations and nothing else. Since the world is not doing it then the scare is obviously a lie. I can sort of forgive politicians from both major parties for telling lies as that’s their nature, but not scientists. They ought to know better but sadly too many of them are liars too.
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Good plain logic. Thanks.
101
Meanwhile the staff at the Guardian, who love to set good example to us all, carry on enjoying their middle class existences with their affluent lifestyles, solar panels, electric or hybrid vehicles, interests in all the taxpayer subsidised stuff, and talking to each other about how awful it is that people could even think that fossil fuel is the provider of much that we take for granted everyday of our lives. And mention nuclear to them and they do not want to know.
It has gone from being one of the best UK broadsheets to a worse-than-tabloid-parody of itself in record time. That is the catastrophe it’s editor should explain to the many readers who have left it in droves.
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🙂 🙂
41
They’ve become a bit like the “Enquirer” type tabloids that had headlines like: Man eats own head, Postman bites dog! etc. without the awareness of self parody.
Consider the type of person these scams attract and then you get an idea of the behavior, the easy money opportunist, the mediocre desperate for power, the fearful looking for solutions, the vapid finding a cult and the good old psychopaths.
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Amazing stuff – now being middle class and caring about the environment is something to mock? To not aspire to? Good grief – and I suppose you also give the huge polluting tax-dodging corporations a free pass at the same time.
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Nobody is mocking the environment, only your perspective on it. What do you make of this?
‘A report by the Climate Council claiming that the global average temperature rise will likely breach 1.5C by the 2030s has caused division in the scientific community.
‘The report, published on Thursday, follows controversy over similar arguments made in a review by the Australian Academy of Science, which said global aspiration of limiting global heating to 1.5C was now “virtually impossible” to achieve.’ (Guardian)
31
Not amazing stuff if you hadn’t quoted me out of context, since all the things I listed are made possible by fossil fuel – BIG TIME – and I am not the one who is pretending to set an example.
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The old Manchester Guardian broadsheet was ok. Since becoming The Guardian, it has steadily gone downhill and the tabloid format just confirmed it! The Times used to be a great newspaper but that is now a lefty tabloid too.
As for The Age…(here in Melbourne).
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“Thus verily and Lo! The Guardian hath forecast doom and the richest most bountiful time in human history “is a catastrophe”. An Emergency!”
To elites it is. Abundancy means they are little different than anybody else. They are not as special.
Have you noticed that all the “solutions” to the make believe crisis’ bring scarcity? Have you noticed that they actually retard progress in the third and second world?
In the late 19th century future Japanese Prime minister Hara Takashi was sent to be a consul general in China. He was shocked by the state of the country and how poor the people were. But what was more shocking to Hara was the great disparity between the regular people and the government class. The people who made up the Qing Dynasty administrative state lived in nice neighborhoods in nice homes with all the amenities of the time. China was still a feudal society. Now we have the west trying hard to become like 19th century China.
171
Recent research by NASA concludes that we really do not know just how much the Sun influences climate. Well I’ll tell you…it’s almost 100%. Humans and volcanoes are just a trace element in CC and GW. The atmosphere could have 25 times the amount of CO2, and it wouldn’t make any difference. Just goes to show how much our society is influenced by paganistic pseudo-science.
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“we really do not know just how much the Sun influences climate”
NO!
It’s CARBON!
Decarbonate Now!
Wait … I think I got something wrong.
61
LOL The earth would be like Venus.
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Obviously you didn’t work out the maths.
Twenty five times current comes to 10,000 ppm. atmospheric CO2.
It’s reported that 8,000 is not unusual in submarines and it may be that 10,000 ppm CO2 is experienced in large public gatherings such as cinemas.
Did you imagine, Greta style, that the world would catch on fire, or that the world would suffocate.
We humans inhale the atmosphere which has 400 ppm and after due processing we exhale 40,000 ppm minimum.
Those who have been running around or engaging in consensual activity may actually pump out more.
As I’ve said before, I find your willingness to expose your unwillingness to educate yourself and the resultant gullibility quite disturbing.
Do you have a minder?
KK
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All very interesting, but not on point.
No-one but you is discussing the safety or otherwise of inhaling elevated levels of CO2. The point is that for each increase in ppm in the atmosphere there is a corresponding increase in the greenhouse effect, and therefore a corresponding increase in temperatures on the earth.
This can be denied forever, but doesn’t make it less true, and invoking Greta doesn’t help your case.
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A. No corresponding increase in warming above a certain level.
B. The so-called ‘Greenhouse Effect’ is nonsense. The atmosphere is open, not closed by a ceiling.
Annie…Deplorable Climate Optimist.
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The evolution of Venus is different to earth, we have a big moon and lots of liquid water sticking to our planet. What happened to Venus cannot happen to us.
71
But wasn’t all the Co2 locked up in the coal/oil deposits once atmospheric CO2 and didn’t the vegetation flourish at the time, laying down the hydrocarbon deposits? Can’t have been much like Venus.
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Tony Heller discusses this @ 2:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSL-9aMaZgU
31
TT:
“The atmosphere could have 25 times the amount of CO2, and it wouldn’t make any difference.”
This is a true statement. Referring to Geologic Time Scale 2004 (Gradstein, Smith, and Ogg), GTS 2012 (Gradstein, Ogg, Smith, and Ogg), and GTS 2020 (Gradstein, Ogg, Schmitz, and Ogg), we find that from c. 720 Ma to 635 Ma, atmospheric CO2 was anywhere from four to about thirteen percent of the atmosphere, but the time period in question is called the Cryogenian. My math may be a bit off, but I think that is more than 175 times the current concentration of CO2; yet the Earth was in the grips of an ice age.
When the atmospheric CO2 concentration fell to under 2%, the Earth warmed up, into a time period called the Ediacaran (first large metazoan fossils, abundant liquid water, and not ice).
Then, in the Hirnantian, atmospheric CO2 was close to 4000 ppm (about ten times today’s level), according to Zachos, Royer, and Berner and Kothavala, yet again the Earth was in the grips of an ice age.
When he was asked how many experiments would take to prove his Theory of Relativity, one A. Einstein said, “No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right. A single experiment can prove me wrong.” In this case, we have just two instances where the hypothesis of CO2-control of the Earth temperature is shown to be incorrect. As stated by one of the greatest minds to have ever existed, a single instance should cause the abandonment of the whole idea.
That it does not shows that we are dealing with a religion, and not anything related to science.
Regards to you and yours,
Vlad
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LOL The earth would be like Venus.
No, TT. The effect of CO2 is negatively logarithmic, and we just about at the top of the curve now. You can double, triple CO2 and it would have little effect, if it ever did.
40
I am totally sick of all this climate change nonsense. I have been racking my brains about how to make money off this scam without encouraging it. I may have a cunning plan. In all these renewables technology they have to have silver. They have no choice. Buying physical silver is quite difficult at the moment and the SLV and other derivatives are just paper. So the alternative is silver mines . Gold mines are quite good to as most gold mines are copper mines with gold as a bi product and you need lots of copper for their “green dreams”. The beautiful thing about this is the more they push this nonsense the bigger the returns from the shares and that will offset the financial damage that they are doing to you from high fuel and power prices. Also your share ownership will in no way help the green loons do their thing. I have purchased a large amount of physical silver and some mining stocks and will find out if it was good idea. I have been trying to decide if I’m a hypocrite or merely making lemon aid out of lemons. Comments?
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Like CNN said ..fear sells.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4R_p-qG0wQ&t=26s
31
To my Guardian angel I pray,
Keep climate disaster at bay,
Give a prophetic sign,
Of our climate’s decline,
And do it this coming Earth Day.
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Careful Ruairi, that’s so good the true believers will use it in their book of Harms….. 😉
100
Thanks Yonniestone,
You could be right but this verse should prevent it.
If misused in the big Book of Harms,
To spread wide your climate alarms,
Of doom warnings dire,
I charge will backfire,
And confound all your spells and your charms.
90
Two absolute beauties today Ruairi! 🙂
51
Thanks Annie, lovely to hear from you.
61
It’s not just The Guardian. This is a joint statement put out by multiple news organisations including Scientific American, Columbia Journalism Review, The Nation, The Guardian, Noticias Telemundo, Al Jazeera, Asahi Shimbun, and La Repubblica.
At least editorial content isn’t being determined by Rupert Murdoch and wealthy Saudi oil barons.
313
It doesn’t matter who is sprouting nonsense, there is no climate emergency.
121
A simple appeal to authority, not honest debate.
111
“At least editorial content isn’t being determined by Rupert Murdoch and wealthy Saudi oil barons.”
Sounds like you didn’t consult Rudd, Turnbull et al?
71
There is climate emergency indeed. Global elitists panic to sell their green assets. Biden is buying and some Europeans. These are the only ones whose central banks has large enough printing capacity to address the urgent need. Lock downs are the best excuse to do it now or never.
21
Yes, I have noticed a recent increase in sales of various “renewables” assets. Apparently the calls for “certainty for renewables” (i.e. more subsidies) has fallen on deaf ears with governments worried about further debt.
41
Here is a late entry for the last thread, and is relevant for this as well, as the Turnbull Times is run by the global warming apocalyptic banshee @murpharoo …
Over 50% Of Liberal, White Women Under 30 Have A Mental Health Issue. Are We Worried Yet?
https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/over-50-percent-white-liberal-women-under-30-mental-health-condition
Does this mean there’s a correlation between progressive ideas and mental health?
“The study, which examined white liberals, moderates, and conservatives, both male and female, found that conservatives were far less likely to be diagnosed with mental health issues than those who identified as either liberal or even “very liberal.”
What’s more, white women suffered the worst of all.
White women, ages 18-29, who identified as liberal were given a mental health diagnosis from medical professionals at a rate of 56.3%, as compared to 28.4% in moderates and 27.3% in conservatives.”
Life is so much better when you don’t ‘believe’ in failed UN doomsday global warming.
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Possibly conservatives are so nutty that they don’t know they have a mental health problem, and don’t get a diagnosis. Or they believe their nuttiness is normal.
06
Could be. Or perhaps this, like everything else in your head is something you just made up.
70
creating more aerial fertilizer that feeds forests and crops and might, at worst, create a small amount of warming which is almost entirely beneficial.
This is a quote from yesterday by Jo
So Jo is not thinking that she “rules the world” with such an arrogant and hubristic statement, but the Guardian is?
/Red thumb = Jo and the Guardian rule the world, Green thumb = arrogance and hubris are not the preserve of the left
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Red thumb says you are [Snip]AD umb.
132
The lightest of snips!
It had a poetic symmetry
91
I disagree with Jo’s comment that the extra CO2 might ‘create a small amount of warming’ …
52
el gordo I’m in the same camp in that I believe it “may” have some effect to warming but if that’s a negative or positive effect it would be so miniscule it’s probably unmeasurable.
111
Yeah, if worse comes to worse I may have to join the lukewarm camp, but not quite yet.
01
Mr Fitz, here is some kindling for your doomsday conflagration.
https://climateimpactcompany.com/u-s-summer-2021-outlook-2-2-2/
31
Facts. CO2 is as nutrient for plants. Ask any marijuana grower.
So far, warming has been beneficial. You listen to catastrophic stories based on 8 degrees of warming per doubling that even the IPCC thinks is unlikely.
You read newspaper stories that storms happened or were worse because of warming that even warministas debunk.
Now you equate common sense with Thermaggeddon like predictions.
71
My red thumb is for such stupid ‘options’, not for your wished-for interpretation of it.
[Sent you an email BTW Annie. Hoping to get in touch. – Jo]
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All of you miss the point –
The Comment made by Jo is exactly the same as the comment made by the guardian.
Do you understand?
It is not about C02 or science or observations or models, it is about posting opinions which are not supportable.
But I do understand that when challenged with having to evaluate opinions without the help of Sky news, most peeps on this site struggle, and will change the topic to something else
19
SciAm also boarded this “emergency” hype bus. Mentions others as well.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/scientific-american-climate-emergency#toggle-gdpr
72
The BBC commissioned three one hour Greta Fromberg programs that have spectacularly flopped! The good thing about science is that it’s true, whether or not you believe in it. Are you listening Guardian Staff?
81
Slightly off topic but it does highlight how most of our media is hard left.
The Seven News in SA at 6pm had a story on two people charged with blackmailing the opposition leader, Peter Malinauskas. They made sure that nobody missed that it was Labor leader who was being blackmailed as well as the woman charged was an ex MP, but avoided saying that the woman was an ex Labor MP. There were a few comments that hinted that she was Labor. There were more that suggested that she was Liberal, like reporting that they lived in the Adelaide Hills and showing their house! (Only partially obscured). They then finished the news with footage of the Liberal Premier followed by footage of the couple charged.
Any one not awake to what the media get up to would have thought how low can the Liberals go.
161
You really have to be kidding, digger. There are no media products in Australia that can be classified as “hard left” – not with the demise of The Tribune in the 1990s. Some people use such terms willy-nilly – and all that happens is that they get rendered totally empty and meaningless. Pfffft.
03
The actual alleged blackmail was to out the opposition leader as having had something to do with the racist attack on the Liberal candidate who went up against the woman charged, because she had a Lebanese name. This poor decision cost the Labor candidate the election and led to a vicious blow back from her community.
You had to be hard left/never Liberal to play along with this. Not even the ABC stooped so low.
40
From global warming , to climate change, to climate weirding , climate catastrophe to climate emergency we’ve come a long way in our descriptors as the weather becomes more benign. I suspect the next two stages are climate apocalypse followed by climate Armageddon..
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A post on CNN propaganda. https://cliscep.com/2021/04/13/cnn-well-milk-climate-change-fear-sells/
31
Yeah well … check out the decline of Arctic sea ice, and desertification in Sub-Saharan Africa. You’re talking dangerous nonsense comrade.
19
Read what really caused desertification in Sub-Saharan Africa (bad land management policy) and how it is being reversed. This reversal shouldn’t be possible if your assertions were true
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/great-green-wall-stop-desertification-not-so-much-180960171/
20
How soon before the book burnings begin?
“Nazi book burnings were a campaign conducted by the German Student Union (the Deutsche Studentenschaft or DSt) to ceremonially burn books in Nazi Germany and Austria in the 1930s. The books targeted for burning were those viewed as being subversive or as representing ideologies opposed to Nazism.”
Or is the modern equivalent of that banning online platforms?
From Orwell’s 1984: “The Ministry of Truth controls information: news, entertainment, education, and the arts. Winston Smith works in the Records Department, “rectifying” historical records to accord with Big Brother’s current pronouncements so that everything the Party says appears to be true.”
Journalism is the production and distribution of reports on current events based on facts and supported with proof or evidence.
Apparently not at the Guardian.
Emergency: “a dangerous or serious situation, such as an accident, that happens suddenly or unexpectedly and needs immediate action: In an emergency, dial 911.”
20
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Northern_Gods_Descending_by_William_Gersham_Collingwood,_1890.jpg
“William Gershom Collingwood (/ˈkɒlɪŋˌwʊd/; 6 August 1854, in Liverpool[1] – 1 October 1932) was an English author, artist, antiquary and professor of Fine Arts at University College, Reading.[2] He was a former President of the Cumberland and Westmorland Antiquarian Society and the Lake Artists’ Society.[3]”
Swallows and Amazons
“In 1896, Arthur Ransome met the Collingwoods and their children, Dora (later Mrs Ernest Altounyan), Barbara (later Mrs Oscar Gnosspelius), Ursula, and Robin (the later historian and philosopher). Ransome learned to sail in Collingwood’s boat, Swallow, and became a firm friend of the family, even proposing marriage to both Dora and Barbara (on separate occasions). After a summer of teaching Collingwood’s grandchildren to sail in Swallow II in 1928, Ransome wrote the first book in his Swallows and Amazons series of books. He used the names of some of Collingwood’s grandchildren for his characters, the Swallows”
Wikipaedia
31
Re commenting
“I am more than happy to correspond with you if…
1 You are respectful and treat me the way you would want to be treated.
2 You ask genuinely thoughtful questions about what makes sense to you.
3 You make your points using sound logic and don’t hide behind links or the word “science.” In other words, make a kind, level-headed argument (links welcome), but don’t just post a link and say “read the science.” That’s intellectually lazy.”
In
https://www.deconstructingconventional.com/post/18-reason-i-won-t-be-getting-a-covid-vaccine
Along with the 18 other things
91
And
https://redpowerphotos.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_04/1618334158084.png.7050a67eeac8f00bd1541bfe08e96ab0.png
31
More tips for the G staff?
https://www.projectveritas.com/news/part-2-cnn-director-charlie-chester-reveals-how-network-practices/
31
BTW here’s the 2020 invitation from the IPCC to Michael Shellenberger to become an expert reviewer for the new upcoming IPCC report.
He has agreed and has already submitted his review by the due date. Fellow lefty Dr Richard Tol had to give up his reviews for the IPCC because he had lost trust in their exaggerations and total disregard for some new data that didn’t suit them.
Let’s hope that Shellenberger has the guts to stand up to them, but I suppose only time will tell?
https://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2020/7/6/my-invitation-to-become-an-expert-reviewer-to-the-intergovernmental-panel-on-climate-change
41
France has declared a farming disaster after some of the coldest temperatures for 90 years in grape growing areas.
Other cold temp records have been broken across southern France for this time of the year.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/France-declares-calamite-agricole-after-record-cold-What-is-it-We-explain-as-cold-continues
81
All that CO2, causing all that lack of heat.
61
It’s just a late frosting event. Not unprecedented at all and there have been many previous such events in France. Some much worse. We have the same phenomenon here in Australia. Usually in the more southern grape growing areas eg Southern Vic, Tas, SA. Get a late frost in November which coincides with flowering or early bunch development and it can seriously reduce yields in affected crops. I think there were some media people (Guardian/ABC?) who tried linking it to Climate change but that’s nonsense.
61
Gee, didn’t something similar happen in Texas, USA, recently?
31
No wonder the Guardian is called the “Turnbull Times” on Sky. He was the one who brought the Guardian to Australia ind it is out there promoting his and his family’s commercial interests in intermittent energy.
111
I read that the Guardian Editor, Lenore Taylor, was one of the guests at a recent Harbourside Mansion get together, along with various other left leaning wokesters.
51
Potential headline material for the G?
“Maybe people who don’t want to take a vaccine should just say that they identify as vaccinated.”
71
That via a comment at Red Power4
51
“If they were only smart enough to recognize their own failings they might start investigating the issues of the day with an open mind, serious questions, and report the smartest arguments made by the most informed commentators on all sides of the issues that matter.”
Jo, you seem to be operating under the assumption that these people are merely fools who haven’t looked at the facts, and that with a little education `they would see they were wrong.
I don’t believe this for a second.
These people are COMMUNISTS who are using the fake story of CAGW to help bring down the West.
The Covid scamdemic is another tool in their deconstructive tool box.
I doubt whether many of these people even believe the CAGW story, it is simply another hammer to smash Western industries and economies.
Those who march in the street might believe it, but they are merely “useful idiots” being used by the Leftist/Globalist forces.
101
Every week of the year people who have their news delivered by news aggregators must delete this hysterical drivel from their feed. Hit the mute button on emergency, catastrophe and the sheer arrogance of propaganda cultists who believe they can change the sensible narrative to shrieking activism.
One mainstream media leftist cult deleted a week. Fight cancel culture with their own poison. Sorry aggregators, I won’t less of this, provide the public with thought provoking reason, not cult brainwashing.
10
“She saw a psychologist and said “I just can’t do anything”. And the psychologists said ‘I feel the same way.’”
Sorry I’m a bit late to the party, but a psychologist ever say ‘Get over it’
Not if he wants recurring patients and payments.
10
‘…but DOES a psychologist ever say…’
10
It’s hard to understand how you can spend so much time exposing climatism, but cannot see through a scam equal or greater, sponsored by pretty much the same people and in the same style and equally obvious to the literate, ie the covid plandemic.
10
You are not alone.
10
oh well. Do you had more evidence than, “it is obvious if you are smart”? That sort of logic is one step lower than, “if you use common sense”.
01
What Barbara is saying is that smart people will look beyond the picture being offered for general consumption.
For example, when I learned of the apparently horrific CV19 death toll in New York I got a spade and started digging.
Nursing homes loomed large in the picture. It was curious that hospitals were emptied in readiness for the huge influx of young CV19 victims who would need “ventilation”.
The expunged hospital occupants, old but not critical were sent to nursing homes.
The hospital refugees apparently “infected” the nursing home people and to help matters the air conditioning was left on.
Further digging found a remarkably short lifespan for nursing home occupants before CV19 so deaths would be there to label as CV19.
More recently I’ve seen comment that CV19 is a variant of Sars 1 and could be labeled Sars 2.
When I compare the reaction to Sars 1 with this current Sars 2 I am concerned at the difference in handling.
And the New York nursing home “handling” had a parallel in the construction of a multi storey incubation setup for CV19 in Melbourne.
The whole Sars 2 business has been more devastating in Australia simply because of the side effects of the “treatment”.
Largely hidden from view the national cost has been higher than the public picture allows.
I still remember the first six Australian deaths from CV19: every one was over 71 years of age and a good spread up to the early eighties.
And now we have the Vaccines that don’t actually stop you from getting CV19 or from passing it on.
This whole thing reads like an imposed drama.
20