What will it solve if Australian coal stays underground? | Graph IEA
If Australia stops digging up clean high energy coal, hands up who thinks Indonesia, Russia, India or China will cut back too? Anyone?
Australia is stopping the world from digging up more dirty coal.
To lower greenhouse gas emissions — burn more Australian coal
But it’s never been about carbon dioxide…
Abolish our coal industry? Tell ’em they’re dreaming
Greg Sheridan, The Australian
Australia is typically the second biggest exporter of coal. But we are not the dominant producer of coal. Australia produces only about 6 per cent of the world’s coal. China produces about 50 per cent of coal globally.
Most nations that use coal have some coal of their own. Australia, with such a small population of 26 million, exports most of its coal. Our biggest coal export competitors are Indonesia, Russia, Colombia and South Africa.
In the event that we were self-destructive enough to abolish our coal industry, global coal use would not decline. Our export markets would be taken by Indonesia, Russia and so on. Countries such as China and India would be forced to use more of their own coal.
But Australian coal has a significantly higher calorific value than Indonesian, Chinese or Russian coal. This means it produces more energy per tonne. You burn less coal to produce a kilowatt-hour of energy. Coal-fired power stations using Australian coal produce fewer greenhouse gas emissions per unit of energy than those using Indonesian, Chinese or most other coal.
This is simply geological happenstance. But it’s also reality. Therefore if we follow the UN’s diktat we increase carbon emissions globally and impoverish ourselves.
Between thermal coal and metallurgical coal we typically earn well over $40bn in coal export income every year. We derive billions upon billions of dollars in royalties and in the tax payments of the companies and their 40,000-odd employees. The idea that anything substitutes for this in the short term is nuts.
Australian coal is a symbolic target.
Um, but how does burning Australian coal advance the Marxist agenda…I mean climate change.
280
You mean Eco-Marxists agenda, Karl wouldn’t be happy with them. As it stands, the rank and file are heavily invested in black coal through superannuation.
71
How many of them know that?
10
CCP want us to keep our coal in the ground so when they eventually invade us they get it.
131
They have no desire to invade Oz and will source more coal from BRICS nations if necessary.
18
So you have to ask yourself why the UN is telling Australia to keep 95% of our coal in the ground? And why not 100%?
It’s not as if the sun shines all day or the wind blows when you want it. We are being told to shut down Australia and our $55Billion, second biggest export by the United Nations. Why? Who benefits by our destruction and the loss of all manufacturing, something which is nearly complete anyway with the world’s highest electricity prices, pushed up by massive illegal and deliberately hidden Federal carbon taxes.
What is wrong with the world is the UN, the IPCC and lately WHO, directly responsible for millions of deaths and still rising quickly. The very organization responsible with preventing pandemics stated one. And the answer to all these questions is China.
370
And of that $55billion, thermal coal is only $17Billion. The rest goes into making steel and we have the best coal for making steel, far better than Indonesia. And the steel is going to be made no matter what anyone uses for heating but we are being told to stop our exports totally. So the UN has joined China in trying to strangle Australia commercially. And we are to believe this is about the Climate? As PM Morrison says, Trade is not Climate.
360
Maybe our new [world order] overlords are ‘keeping it in the ground’ to save for that inevitable ‘rainy day’?
CCC – Commie Comrade Cindy – has banned coal, gas & oil exploration (to ‘save’ the planet no less) while importing YUGE amounts of low-grade Indonesian coal to keep her facade running. And then Minister of Green Crock, James Shaw, announces he will be ‘flying’ to Glasgow, with his entourage of toadies in tow, to ‘save the planet’ from that ‘dangerous’ gas of life. Hypo Crisy!
Meanwhile: It was 20 years ago today…
190
The real issue is that whatever climate rules come up they always support industries dependent on Big Gov, and therefore controlled by it. They always work against industries that are profitable in their own right.
170
There’s a technical term for the close partnership of Big Business with Big Government, to the detriment of small business, they call it FASCISM.
80
TdeF
Over recent weeks I have read a number of overseas commentators, who are looking at the Australian and NZ response to Covid with all the restrictions, suggesting we are being used as a test case by the “elite” to see how far things can be pushed. If there is any truth in this, maybe the same is now being applied to climate matters.
A few years ago I would have thought this was nonsense, but now I find myself willing to consider any possibility.
300
Australia was strategically very important in WWII. It remains so. Geographically it dominates the Southern Hemisphere. And of course land equals minerals and Australia has a lot of everything. This is confirmed by China Communist Party representative Daniel Andrews who has not only shut down Victoria, says we need to be part of the CCP Belt and Road because we have no natural resources. None that we are allowed use or sell according to the UN/CCP.
190
Assume that carbon dioxide emissions actually mattered: Whatever the Western world does about CO2 emissions is pointless; all of the increase of emissions in the last 20 or 25 years came from China, India and other Asian nations. And the future increases will come from those rapidly growing countries which value human flourishing, and do not choose to commit economic suicide.
https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Image0511452019.png
30
On the world stage, ordinarily Australia barely rates a mention, but the scrutiny of our global warming response and our handling of covid is staggering.
30
Ah, but if you do those figures per capita, we shine out as the worst of the worst. Think of the grandchildren!
84
But more grandchildren means the per capita figures would be lower.
110
We’ve made huge cuts per capita since 1990. How come only emissions per capita count, and cuts are always recorded in Mt.?
110
That is true moral relatavism. Divide sin by population to determine relative guilt. Like Einstein theory of General Relativity. He was right, most of your problems are relatives.
190
This recent study indicates that Australia needs to keep 95% of its coal reserves underground for a 50% chance of keeping temperatures within 1.5C.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03821-8
The global model assumes prioritised use of the fossil fuels that are cheapest to extract, such as Saudi oil, in using up the remaining carbon budget. Costly and highly polluting reserves, such as Canada’s tar sands and Venezuelan oil, are left in the ground.
031
Wouldn’t it make more sense to prioritise coal which is less ‘polluting than energy sources which are ‘cheaper to extract. Who decides such priorities and why was alleged pollution put behind cost?
160
The study used models we know are broken. Likely whatever conclusion is comes to is 100% wrong.
250
So if CO2 is a problem why the adversity to nuclear power which would deliver reliable power more cheaply than wind or solar and without the emissions and environmental destruction caused by their manufacture. No. This has nothing to do with CO2 but it has everything to do with socialism/communism and the destruction of the West.
291
Because nuclear is a viable solution, they don’t want viable solutions
120
Because the pinkos haven’t noticed yet that The Cold War wound up 30 years ago.
20
“keeping temperatures within 1.5C.”
LOL, there’s that fantasy number again.. based on absolutely nothing except the whim of a kooky climate activist.
Pertaining to nothing.
There is no scientific evidence at increased atmospheric CO2 does anything except increase the growth of the carbon cycle.
You know, that cycle that feeds all life on Earth !
231
During our recent summer of bushfires, our local December average maximum temperature was more than 5 degrees centigrade above average, and from October to February was more than 3 degrees above the average. Not even Tim Flannery predicted that.
Any part that CO2 played in that scene was quite invisible. Hidden in the vastly bigger numbers.
21
I know you are genuine in your deep concern for the environment…..but it might be you’ve been had yet again….one born evry minute and all that…
The Guardian in 2016: “Billionaire climate philanthropist George Soros invested multiple millions in struggling coal giants Peabody Energy and Arch Coal in recent months, despite having once called the fuel “lethal” to the climate…..
“The firm, which Soros chairs, bought the large stakes for bargain prices. Peabody and Arch are giants of the US coal sector but have suffered massive declines in recent years, losing more than 98% of their value. SFM made a similar move in 2014 by investing $234.4m in coal and gas company Consol.”….
Yeah, and then George impresses guys like you with implausible sob-stories so as to nobblr his main competitors in Oz (plenty paid by George to Getup and the Greens to try to stop Adani too). Don’t you ever get tired of being a stooge for Big George……and Big Pharma?
200
Adani. Don’t fail to notice that Adani is in competition with China, both in economic and strategic terms. Blocking Adani is boosting China.
Ask those Greens: how much of their funding comes from the CCP?
40
‘Australia needs to keep 95% of its coal reserves underground for a 50% chance of keeping temperatures within 1.5C.’
We are not going to put on sack cloth because the old world order demands it, those days are over. Also, temperature is unrelated to CO2, otherwise Beijing would close up shop immediately to save the planet.
100
China’s FGOALS climate model has negligible warming trend. It comes closet to the one based on atmospheric physics rather than a religious belief:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNhBlQt8jdeBoZ9NhY
The Chinese model is presently 2C cooler than the the EU MIROC 6 model.
Clearly China is not showing any current warming or forecasting much future warming. They have no issues burning coal.
On the other hand the EU MIROC6 model is already 2C warmer and rising at almost 3C per century so Europe clearly has an issue with burning coal.
Who you gonna call?
70
I’ll back Beijing, they seem to know what they are doing.
00
You are being too logical. Gas for peaking. Coal for stockpiling.
BRIC+ isn’t going to play ball. It’s a Western pipe dream
People need to be realistic
00
It is to my everlasting bewilderment and amusement that these idiots can refer CO2 abatement to a number with a decimal point, 1.5 deg.
20
Australia has become committed to total self-destruction.
This is what a majority of voters want judging from their deliberate ignorance because, despite censorship and lies from a Leftist dominated legacy and tech media, the truth is still out there and not hard to find.
Australia seems an ideal model for implementation of the Marxist ideas of the globalist Elites such as the “Great Reset” promoted by Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum (not a conspiracy theory).
Australia is ideal because of a substantially highly compliant, apathetic and deliberately ignorant population more interested in trivia like sport and beer than the politics of the land, a massive taxpayer funded Marxist propaganda machine pumping out disinformation 24 hrs per day rather than impartial information as per their legal charter; a legacy and social media that is not much better; a population highly concentrated in just a few major cities making containment of people to prevent escape relatively simple to implement (look at the “ring of steel” Supreme Commander Andrews put around Melbourne and is currently in place now to prevent COVID escapees); an island continent with no land borders and too far away from any civilised country to escape to without an intercontinental capable private jet or boat; a total lack of competent, caring and wise leadership in all major parties; a total Nanny State mentality which is implemented by government and accepted by the people etc., etc., etc.
Australia is a mess, and is going to get FAR worse. We are going the way of Venezuela.
Let the ignorant and stupid masses have what they so badly want!
160
During his visit to the G7 by invitation PM Morrison rejected the non-government organisation WEF agenda Great Reset-Build Back Better and made it clear that he and the government he leads support the now well proven free enterprise economics system.
And when meeting the IK PM recently our PM rejected calls for Australia to stop mining, using and exporting coal and refused to make coal a condition of signing a new free trade agreement between Australia and Great Britain. The agreement went through without any coal conditions applying.
PM Morrison is centre-right of the political spectrum and like PM Abbott he is denigrated, smeared and relentless attacked with negativity by the left leaning media, so only people who search beyond the daily news cycle dished out to us get to see behind the media nonsense and covering up.
100
The most disturbing part of all the BS & propaganda being used to destroy the country is the willingness & enthusiasm of the Labor/Green coalition, the MSM & 50% or more of the LNP /National coalition to help & advance the UN/IPCC ATTEMPTS TO WIPE OUR ECONOMY & WAY OF LIFE OUT!!
Oh & don’t forget the EU & USA under Joe Fraud, will use “emissions” as leverage against trade deals with Australia. The UK no doubt will follow the EU & USA lest they fall foul of the blackmail as well!!
100
Graham, I have similar comments to that currently stuck in moderation but fully agree.
Also, Australia started as a free range prison 233 years ago and will now finish like that but without the free range part.
70
It should be noted that Australia totally dominates world metallurgical coal exports.
We have great coal for steel making !
https://iea.imgix.net/301305ea-9cc8-42fb-b200-694e32c62ad7/Map_Met-01.png
110
But sadly no longer make much steel ourselves…
150
And our only steel mill is owned by the Indians.
20
There are, on this planet, a number of people who know the secret that must be crushed and hidden.
To allow this secret into the public domain would be unthinkable, so we continue to live in the new Dark Ages with the world’s unelected “Leaders” talking and tinkering around the edges of the great lye so that they can lead us all further away from the truth which must never be known.
So let’s not talk about it.
60
The secret.
Neither human origin CO2 nor natural origin CO2 have any influence on the final atmospheric temperature for any day, week, month, year, decade or millennium.
There’s No Mechanism by which CO2 can do this Global Warming thing; and just as a reinforcement, human origin CO2 is such a small percentage of the atmospheric CO2 that it would be quantitatively irrelevant.
Our Earth is a system which functions to process incoming ultra high energy UV from the Sun and then disperse the PW IR leftovers back out to space.
Our Earth spins, and we have day and night.
Our Earths axis is tilted and this gives us summer, autumn, winter and spring.
Our Earth wobbles, slowly, and we have glacial cycles lasting a hundred thousand years.
The Secret.
Atmospheric CO2 levels have No influence on atmospheric temperature.
It amazes me that this Deception has been allowed to flourish and enslave us for so long.
170
Here’s an idea.
Instead of burning coal, why don’t we cut down forests* and burn them instead of coal like they do in Europe (e.g. the Drax power station in Once Great Britain)?
*When the Left demand forests be cut down for fuel they rename the forests as “biomass”.
130
Finland is the poster child for forest biomass. It is a byproduct of their timer industry. UK imports its biomass from North America.
Managed forests are currently the only sustainable source of energy. Random Energy (RE) is not sustainable but has created massive demand for Australian iron ore and coal, both met and thermal, as the developed would chases the carrot on a stick that is Random Energy. RE provides an illusion of reducing CO2, which is a good thing because more CO2 is a good thing. The sad part is that the illusion diverts resources from investment in those things needed to address climate change.
The Southern Hemisphere reached peak sunlight in the current precision cycle in 1585. It is in a long-term cooling trend that will persist for the next 12k years. Australia will become drier with more persistent droughts. There is a long term need to massively improve water collecting and holding infrastructure.
The North Atlantic is just coming out of its coldest period from the last precession cycle as Earth’s orbit is now 400 years into the current 25k year cycle. North Atlantic will have more sunlight during the boreal summer but less during the boreal winter than now. There will be more atmospheric water over the land abutting the North Atlantic later in the year just before it cools more rapidly. What is now appearing as flooding rain in North America and Central Europe will increasingly fall as snow. It will start to accumulate within the current millennium. Sea levels will fall.
Climate change will create challenges for infrastructure. Wasting resources on RE will eventually be viewed as a sad period in human history. Led astray by religious belief in “Greenhouse Gasses”.
100
There are arguably others…controlled Hydro etc.. but lets not quibble.
Timber is sustainable but must not be confused with “carbon neutral”. as some would like to have us believe
50
The trouble is managing those forests. Suppose you use 5% of your forest each year, and the trees take 40 years to reach maturity. That means each year yu lose 5% of your trees and ‘replace’ it at 1% (5 over 40). By 2050 you are going to have a shortage of trees.
OK, early growth might be faster but you still have to plant and nurture those seedlings. And there is the little matter of extra CO2 emitted by changing to wood (32% according to their own figures from Drax). Part of the problem is water damping of the wood chips to prevent spontaneous combustion, which is why they (Drax) have special railcars and warehouses.
20
Good comment.
20
Good stuff Jo and thanks to the The OZ for telling us the truth and using proper DATA and evidence AGAIN.
But never forget that their solution via S & W is the most clueless, most TOXIC, UNRELIABLE energy source on the planet.
Every 20 years these S & W TOXIC disasters have to be buried in landfill, FOREVER.
What a sick joke and anyway the entire SH is already a NET co2 SINK.
But of course this is about the POLITICAL climate and nothing to do with co2 emissions.
60
Of course there is no climate emergency or donkey Biden’s EXISTENTIAL threat at all.
In fact the DATA proves we are living in the best of times and the current life expectancy of Humans around the planet is about 73 and much higher than 30 years ago or 50 or 100 years ago.
And deaths from ALL EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS are at an all time low today.
OH and 100 years ago there were about 6 billion less people at risk and yet the death toll then was much higher than today.DUH?
So why are we so stupid and ignorant about the real data and evidence?
And why would we want to WASTE endless TRILLIONS $ for decades for a GUARANTEED ZERO RETURN? Over to Willis Eschenbach.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/25/wheres-the-emergency/
51
Hey Simon, have you looked out the window lately? According to the latest IPCC, Australia is already 1.4 above the average. I have a reasonable view out of my window, and can clearly see doom looming over the horizon, spreading it’s dark shadow of pestilence, drought and famine over the land. How’s the view from your place? Are you still in drought? The one that has obviously continued on, from when the climate changed a couple of years ago? Two things have gone extinct in the last year or so. Influenza and weather. Are these the sort of extinctions that bother you?
60
Yes, I just looked out the window and saw the dark threat of climate change looming over the horizon. It’s the cold change they’ve been predicting for some days.
50
Question, if hurricanes/cyclones, higher winds are due to differentials in pressure, and the temperature goes up raising the lowest and highest pressures (does that happen) but the differential stays the same, why would the rising temperature increase hurricanes/cyclones?
Any thoughts?
20
Brian I’ve linked to the BOM data on cyclones before, but for Aussie region we know that the trend is DOWN for the last 50 years.
See data graph for both non-SEVERE and SEVERE cyclones at BOM link.
http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/climatology/trends.shtml
And Dr Jon Nott’s studies tell us that SUPER CYCLONES hit the QLD coast 200+ years ago and further back during the LIA.
See ABC Catalyst Super cyclones.
11
Thanks Neville
I will have a look at that.
I hadn’t thought Hurricanes and Cyclones were getting worse (MSM is BS on this) its more that I think the premise that rising temperature will drive higher winds is wrong and conveniently so.
Cheers
10
Brian I think the differential effect is supposed to drive stronger winds during a colder Arctic and Antarctic period.
If tropics etc stay at the present temps we may see a difference if/when the AMO changes to cool phase.
Dr Curry is an expert on the AMO phase changes and she seems to think we could see a cool change fairly soon.
But then again the Antarctic hasn’t warmed since 1950 according to the recent NATURE study and the famous SEE-SAW effect may cause some warming there if the AMO changes to a new cool phase.
And according to TURNER UK BAS study the Antarctic peninsula has been cooling for the last 20 years.
Very complicated messy stuff, so who knows?
10
There is no reason for a change in frequency but higher water temperatures mean more potential energy and more water evaporation so increased probability of higher rainfall.
03
Except its not happening.
Rainfall around the world remains essentially trendless.
Some places increase , some places decrease, just like its always done.
Hurricanes and cyclone intensities are within normal range.
Natural variability rules completely.
40
And of course, the tiny amount of ocean warming is purely from solar and cloud effects.
Nothing to do with atmospheric CO2.
30
Australia is a useful test case for the Elites and their plans of global domination and global government.
The logic is that if a seemingly civilised stable middle power ranking Western country like Australia can so rapidly fall into dictatorship, then others can too.
Just look at how quickly Australia folded to UN demands for Random Energy. So eager to please no matter which party is in power.
And now we have covid, the same story and so eager to please and only allowing treatment according to strict UN/WHO guidance with absolutely no deviation from that protocol, no matter how minor. Don’t dare try anything new, just let the patient die. No one will get in trouble.
Australians and their “leaders” have lost their ability to reason and think and are utterly insane as they enthusiastically pursue self-destruction.
As Chairman Mao might have said, “Onward ho, comrades!”.
80
cross posted at https://freedomaustralia.freeforums.net/thread/1425/australian-coal-symbolic-target
10
Interesting to check out the various temp trends since DEC 1978 or start of satellite data.
See York Uni tool below.
Super adjusted RSS V 4 is now 0.214 c/ decade and UAH V 6 is 0.135 c decade and older RSS V 3.3 is 0.134 c decade or about the same as Spencer’s UAH V6.
Even the ground based trends are now less than 0.2 c decade so RSS SAT is now the SUPER ADJUSTED OUTLIER TLT temp trends.
http://www.ysbl.york.ac.uk/~cowtan/applets/trend/trend.html
30
Judge for yourself, pandemic lockdowns and restrictions a new world order based agenda or health of community and with bureaucrats and politicians struggling to cope with how to best protect the nation?
Of course there are Labor State Premiers playing political games using the virus as an excuse, but there is now an exit plan published for late in 2021 and, when the people stand up and protest about restrictions that are not well thought through the people can force change. I live in the Local Government Area of NSW called Mid Coast and because of one (1) COVID case our LGA was not removed from lockdown when areas for it to be lifted were announced during the past week. Locals reported that the man is in hospital far away from our LGA and from his home in a tiny village on the edge of our LGA, his partner tested negative for the virus.
By telephone, email and Facebook voters protested to our MLA who contacted the Deputy Premier who agreed to discuss the matter with the Health Department. Late on Friday night the MLA announced via his Facebook page that our LGA would also have the lockdown lifted Friday night.
Surely if the NWO had us where they want us restrictions would be non-negotiable.
51
There are many good sources of reliable data and folks who know how to collate and present that data in a sensible, understandable, convincing , manner (Monkton , etc)
The problem is finding receptive minds to present to. People who are in an influential positions to be able to react and use it to make something happen….like an “inverse” version of Gore !
20
The UN directive for Australia to cease from exporting coal is perhaps the clearest evidence that the entire CC scare has nothing to do with the climate. This is because they don’t point a single finger at the countries buying and burning our coal, which includes China and India and therefore they are effectively endorsing developing countries to continue burning coal, but provided they purchase the coal from another 3rd world country such as Indonesia or Russia. We can all see what is going on here, the UN and China siding to try and combat our revenue streams by any means. They know that their comments will create further incitement from local Marxist activists and lead to more aggressive and violent protest.
My thoughts are that Morrison should immediately align all our climate targets post 2030 with China’s. He could then point the media and protest army to the
Chinese embassy and say that is the way to make us reduce faster and it will make a real difference, because if they can force China to bring their targets forward then we will reciprocate. There is also logic with this position to silence media and political objection, because you can claim that getting the world’s biggest emitter to abandon their 2030 target of unhinged emissions, would result in many times the 1% reduction from ourselves before we even get to 2030.
50
UN is playing the silly game of ‘western Net Zero’
If it were truly interested in GHG, it would decouple local emission reduction, export and immigration. What Australia exports (coal livestock, LNG lithium wheat) has nothing to do (decoupled) with local Australian emissions.
Balancing to net-zero across all Australian activity is a fake game
31
UAH Year to date (August) for Australia -0.156ºC …. Equal 23rd/43
20
I find this thread so funny. It’s not all about CO2 coming from fossil fuels. It’s all about CO2 period. Even if they ever managed to stop us using all fossil fuels it won’t stop there. So, it follows then that it’s ultimately about destroying the West by whatever means.
50
What will it solve if Australian coal stays underground?
One more Western economy will be hamstrung and thus pose no threat to the rise of China and the NWO Global government.
40
Post WW2 Australia spent twenty-five years working, saving, studying and rebuilding our nation.
Then for the next fifty years our politicians drained away all that good work.
We are once again, at bedrock.
The only difference between Australia and the United States is that O’Biden etc brought their nation down to chaos in about a year.
There should be a lot of angry people about right now who feel something has been taken from them; what will they do.
30
What utter nonsense – your ideological blinkers are blinding you. The Democrats under President Biden are at least looking to arrest the decline. What do you think the Covid-19 Relief Bill and the Infrastructure Bill are all about?
Meanwhile idiot Red Hat Governors in Florida and Texas (plus elsewhere) are killing thousands … but they don’t care – they have elections to win!
Trump led the country into chaos – because of laziness, incompetence, and corruption. He didn’t drain the swamp, he filled it up with his own grifting family, his golf buddies, and other lizards.
03
Interesting comment; full of the usual insertions.
Very protective of O’BoJiden as expected and dismissing reality, which is often a problem.
And I agree O’Biden couldn’t have done it so quickly without the set-up from OBama.
Destroying a country ain’t easy.
20
“The Democrats under President Biden….. “
Have brought about one of the sharpest declines in US history
Decline in power, decline of morality, decline of prosperity..
America teeters on the edge…
20
What will happen is the air will get dirtier because our coal is very low in sulphur and other impurities,and the next on the list is crap coal, IE, Indon, China, Brazil etc.
30
If Morrison wants to win his argument on climate he needs to declare the original ‘97% of climate scientists say atm. humanity added CO2 is causing global warming’. He needs to say it was never true, just check how it was done. State he is going to open the debate on human-induced global warming to all professionally qualified scientists whose field of expertise is involved in the physics and hhistory of the world’s climate.
That should put the foxes in the chicken cages of the true believers and activists – if there are any without their own political demands for how the world is governed. He would say also, he only gives time to real, reproducible science and not the garbage coming from the mouths of those that seek to force their Middle Ages versions of science by religious decree down the throats of the gullible. Scientists will seek the truth, where ever it leads.
It is noticeable that the methodology used by the warming disaster brigade is now also the means of efforts to destroy the culture and history of the Democracies, just as climate change is similarly directed. It’s run by the few vocal activists carrying out violent internal attacks on both the people and the nations. The USA is the screaming example of all this in motion and it seems to be coming from the now well propagandised education system and big business that sees big profits and national control powers coming to their own hands and encouraged by governments.
Unfortunately, trying to win the fight by history, data, logic cannot win this fight because all the power is in the hands of governments that either seek such changes to increase their own powers, or change governance systems. They they are abetted by the media, the courts, State Governments in many cases, and now, even the military heads.
50
Yeah well – I accept totally that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are causing global warming, and rapidly too – for me (and the 97%) the science is settled and unequivocal.
BUT – I think the real political debate is what to do about it? I think we should retain all the natural gas and great-quality coal that we need to have a robust, cheap-energy present and future, and have an extremely long-term strategy to reduce emissions via alternatives.
The utter tragedy is the over-rapid deployment of electric vehicles, solar, wind, batteries, and even “pumped hydro” – this is all techno-porn and treaty-ticking, in my view.
We could have a very rational policy indeed … that did not involve mind-bogglingly inefficient techno-fixes – and use good coal and natgas for the foreseeable future – without having even 1% effect on the total CO2 global emission load. So let’s do it that way.
02
” I accept totally that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are causing global warming”
There is that blind, irrational and evidence-free cult belief, again.
When will you learn the facts !
Fact.. There is no scientific evidence that increased atmospheric CO2 causes warming.
You keep proving that.
Present evidence… or DON’T !!
40
Are you suggesting that the thousands of climate scientists who contribute to the IPCC Report are misguided, fraudulent, or on the take? Or just bad scientists because you don’t agree with them? LOL
01
Argument from Authority. Just another logical fallacy and a reason that Tilba could have been tossed out of commenting from breaching blog rules, but for the goodness fo my heart months ago.
We all know most skeptics can name more independent scientists who are skeptical than Tilba could name believers who are independent climate scientists. Skeptics are sacked. Believers are paid more and given $$$ for lawyers to cover their legal costs for hiding their emails and data.
30
The fact is that I personally am better qualified than so called Climate Scientists to assess the claims about human origin CO2 causing atmospheric temperature irregularities.
They have little comprehension of the essential elements that underlie their claims and simply repeat the “accepted wisdom” handed down to them by their superiors.
They have only one guiding principle.
10
We discussed this seven or eight years ago;
https://joannenova.com.au/2013/02/peer-review-failure-science-and-nature-journals-reject-papers-because-they-have-to-be-wrong/#comment-1239460
The thermodynamics is irrefutable; unless of course you are the United Bloody Nations and can afford to buy off some uneducated mouthpieces.
10
Tilba, as you are supremely confident in the CO2 theory of Human induced Global Warming, you should not have any compunction about having the science openly and freely debated by acceptably qualified scientific minds because you know you are right, that your science will hold up under the strictest of interrogation! After all, isn’t that what real science is all about? The nonsense of ‘sceptic’, cancellation and educational system pillorying will stop only if we get away from the reversion to the Middle Ages of witchcraft and the equivalence of burning people at the stake for their trust in science.
Surely, unless you see this current methodology leading to different governance arrangement you favour and nothing at all to do with science and climate, you can have no desire to be conscripted to a belief by politicians. Those pollies themselves are already conscripted by the UN and the EU. That conscription in my view has more to do with how the Democracies are governed, their economies (must cease to function efficiently) must be severely handicapped leaving them as patsies for whatever is the next part the Europeans have dreamed up for us.
As you say, the level of thinking and planning currently, (by only the democratic governments the world over), is totally unfathomable. One wonders if there shouldn’t be an exam taken by those seeking to govern us to reassure us that they have a reasonably judicious idea of just how things work in any successful economy, otherwise we end up with the Venezuela syndrome, at best.
How come groups of politicians, from the most advanced economies in the modern world, seek to destroy their efficient and reliable energy systems that have served for 150 years, before they have a smidgeon of a reliable, workable energy system to replace them. They have a developmental system of renewables, not even up to dependably and continuously supplying something like 20% of what they have to do, and no idea if they ever will?
The clever dicks pushing this arrangement in Europe, have themselves covered by nuclear and hydro energy sources and allow themselves to burn timber freely (as though this is pure because it can be replaced, regardless of the CO2 it releases). The hypocrisy of attacking Australia because of the export of coal is totally apparent, especially when the non-democracies have every intention of continuing to build coal burners, using any coal if necessary, and tell the UN to go fly a kite.
Under this arrangement, we see China with a booming economy, developing the most advanced weaponry in the world, sending satellites and people into space and increasingly a threat to the democracies that are so busy ‘saving the planet’, destroying their economies, with their minds off defence matters (which soon they won’t be economically capable of attending to anyway) and opening us all up to a very uncertain and unpleasant future which will happen almost immediately relative to the future of the AGW maniacs whose end-of-days happens anywhere between 80 and a thousand years into the future.
10
provide the data on calorific value?
Blending coal to cook the books…..
10
Adolf Hitler said, “if you tell a lie for long enough, the people will believe”. In respect to AGW, this is right up the alley of politicians and green activists. The AGW lie has been pushed for more than 40 years. Good on China for building as many coal-fired power stations as they want, and thumbing their noses at the UN. (Note: Hey Greta Thunberg, go visit China and see how you like it).
50
Tell a lie long enough and people will believe it.
People are more likely to believe a big lie than a small one.
It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled.
30
Especially true when the purveyors of the lies, or their supporters, also have control of the modern, democratic, education systems, and have assumed leadership of almost all important institutions of the West – and this goes for much of our political fraternity on both sides.
Wokism itself is a big part of forcing change on Democracies when so few are ready to stand up for our past, our present and our futures. The body politic in all its glory is on display in the way the government and most others are to afraid to break ranks and listen to people like Craig Kelly, as an example, whether he is right or wrong, to argue his points. He is officially not allowed an opinion, to the point he changed Parties. Like the climate no-debate-allowed blanket that smothers everyone’s thoughts, opinions and science, so we see this Middle Ages neanderthal system being used to govern us all, tell us what we must think and treat anybody outside the official ranks of acceptable opinion as someone that must be destroyed. Has the Chief Scientific Officer ever been challenged to defend the climate and health sciences, I wonder.
10
China continues on a Coal fired building frenzy as it outstrips the so called advanced Western OECD countries.
Now even the hopeless Obama donkey is starting to wake up.
Another BIG surprise, NOT.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/09/11/are-chinas-climate-promises-just-a-load-of-hot-air-yes/
10
All the plans for domination by wind and solar will be for naught once Sydney starts having blackouts …then all hell will break loose…. the political hub of Australia will have to sit up and listen and eventually act….
20
..Or maybe not Gerry,..!
Sydney has submitted to home confinement for many weeks with little push back.
So , it may not react as you suggest to a few days of no power.
The average modern Ozzie is a lot less verbal than those of the ‘50s-‘60s.
30
This is nothing to do with CO2. It is about high return quick sales, offloading of obsolete assets which in their practical form will never account to stable energy provision. Named renewable and if these can be called version 1. A way to reward investments into an expensive R&D and create mess that will be difficult to clean up practically and politically.
Australia does have high quality raw materials to be self sufficient for many hundred of years. However there is a distinct lack of long term vision for our nation that is just happy to be bopping from election to election.
00