By Jo Nova
Tantangara Resevoir: A whole ecosystem to fill with invasive feral fish and a necrosis virus too.
The Snowy 2.0 Pumped hydro scheme will cost families big money, spread pests, endanger fish, and kill trees but it will allow some renewables investors to make a profit, and that’s all that matters right?
Overseas readers are invited to submit more stupid schemes, with points for delays, cost, incompetence, environmental damage and sheer lack of any public benefit.
Ted Woodley does the best synopsis of the Snowy 2.0 debacle I’ve seen, pointing out how it sets all the worst kinds of records, being delayed 300% with costs up 1000%. It was supposed to be built in four years and cost $2 billion, but will end up taking 12 years (at least) and probably cost $20 billion by the time the cost of the extra transmission lines is added in. As readers here know, the boring machines are the slowest on Earth, one having made it only 200m and being paused for months under a pile of sand.
It was supposed to pay for itself, and make electricity cheaper, but is already chewing through a $1.4 billion taxpayer “injection”, with more to come and even the Snowy Hydro team admit public electricity prices will rise because of Snowy 2.0. And above all, it was supposed to be renewable and save the environment, but it’s just a big inefficient battery that will infect the top lake with feral perch and other pests, and sacrifice some forest for high voltage transmission lines. It will breach all the usual environmental regulations but that’s OK say The Greens who’ll destroy the environment any day if it keeps their big business and banker pals happy.
To put this is perspective, the invasive redfin perch “is a declared notifiable pest under the Biosecurity Regulation 2017. It is illegal to possess, buy, sell or move this pest in NSW.” But the Snowy 2.0 Scheme will pump the eggs and larva by the gigaton. If you do it, you’re breaking the law, but if the Snowy 2.0 scheme does it, they are environmental heroes.
Ever get the feeling the Environmental Movement is just a mafia cabal?
The Australian Greens love Snowy 2.0 so much they want Snowy Hydro 3.0 with $40 billion in Commonwealth funding.
Jo says — make all the renewable energy generators pay the costs themselves, since they are the only beneficiaries, and obey the laws we all obey, and if the project collapses, which it will, we’ll all be richer. That’s how the free market works…
Six years of bungled billions; time to cut losses on Snowy 2.0
Ted Woodley, The Australian
Just picking out the costs and environmental damage:
Record three: underestimated cost – $2bn to up to $20bn
Snowy 2.0’s $2bn estimate increased to $3.8bn-$4.5bn in the business case, to $5.1bn for the main contract (only), to $5.9bn now. It is important to note these estimates don’t include all project costs, such as capitalised interest and suppressed dividends during construction, hedging, exploratory and other works, design, project management, and trans-mission. Also, the allowance for contingencies would have been exceeded by $2.2bn of contractor claims, with more to come. The final cost of Snowy 2.0’s main works is likely to exceed $10bn.
Then there’s a further $9bn-plus for 1000km of 500kV transmission connections to Sydney and Melbourne (Sydney Ring South, HumeLink and VIC/NSW interconnector), primarily for Snowy 2.0’s pumping and generation. Snowy Hydro initially estimated $1bn to $2bn. If Snowy Hydro is not compelled to contribute its fair share of the cost, arguably the majority, NSW electricity consumers will face a doubling of transmission tariffs.
An all-up cost for Snowy 2.0 approaching $20bn represents a tenfold increase, surely a record for cost underestimation.
Record six: inducing the NSW government to grant exemptions from environmental legislation
The claim that Snowy 2.0 will incur minimal impact on Kosciuszko National Park is demonstrably false. Vast construction sites across 30km of the park have been cleared, blasted, excavated, reshaped and compacted. Hundreds of kilometres of roads and tracks are being constructed/ widened, and 20 million tonnes of excavated spoil will be dumped (when the TBMs get boring). But it’s the NSW government’s granting of exemptions from statutory protections that sets a record for environmental vandalism.
Snowy 2.0 has been exempted from the statewide ban on transferring noxious pests between waterways. This condones the movement of invasive Redfin perch, among other declared pests, from Talbingo Reservoir to Tantangara Reservoir and then across the alps into the Murray, Snowy, Murrumbidgee and Tumut headwaters, overwhelming native species and devastating trout fishing. Also, Snowy 2.0 has been exempted from the obligation in the Kosciuszko Plan of Management for any additional transmission to be located underground. Four 330kV transmission lines on two sets of 70-metre towers will traverse 8km of the park over a cleared easement swathe up to 140m wide. This will be the first time transmission lines are erected in a NSW national park for 50 years.
Ted Woodley is former managing director of PowerNet, GasNet, EnergyAustralia, GrainCorp and China Light & Power Systems (Hong Kong).
Tantangara aerial photo by Graeme Bartlett
This hurts.
Who led this travesty?
150
Turdbull – Malcolm Turnbull announces Snowy Mountains 2.0
More 1 Day ago
‘A $20 Billion white elephant’: Malcolm Turnbull’s Snowy 2.0
Even the Sydney(Pravda) Moaning Herald March 15, 2022 – Note up $10 Billion in a Year to above 2GB Article
Five years on, Snowy 2.0 emerges as a $10 billion white elephant
Five years ago on Tuesday, then prime minister Malcolm Turnbull announced, with great fanfare, the Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro project:
“The Turnbull Government will start work on an electricity game-changer … This plan will increase the generation of the Snowy Hydro scheme by 50 per cent, adding 2000 megawatts of renewable energy to the National Electricity Market (NEM).”
Senate Estimates papers confirm the announcement was cobbled together in less than two weeks after the concept was floated by Snowy Hydro.
Inspiring stuff. But not one of these grand claims has turned out to be true. Worse, Australian taxpayers and NSW electricity consumers will be up for billions of dollars in subsidies and increased electricity costs, all while Kosciuszko is trashed. Let’s have a quick recap.
Snowy Hydro now expects completion in 10 years, not four, by 2026. Some experts consider even this extended timeframe to be optimistic.
180
“ Senate Estimates papers confirm the announcement was cobbled together in less than two weeks…”
Trivial matter. No need to involve hydrologists or civil engineers.
150
No need to involve hydrologists or civil engineers or environmental scientists, or someone to do a cost benefit analysis or risk assessment.
120
Turdball is a white elephant
90
MT was never going to see this finished so he doesn’t give a flying fish.
10
Malcom Turnbull.
50
About 12 years ago I seriously looked at immigrating to Australia from the USA when Obama became President. Glad you wouldn’t accept me, I didn’t have enough assets to qualify.
60
There are other ways to get to Australia. Illegal immigration by rickety fishing boat is a favourite. Best of all, you’ll be welcomed with open arms.
30
Another incisive post by Jo and the wider question of how this debacle can occur sits and taunts us.
Putting aside the non issue of Globul Warming for a moment, let’s just consider how to make the cheapest, most reliable and easily distributed power for homes businesses and heavy industry.
A team of competent engineers could calculate with great precision the cost per kilowatt hour to generate, distribute and replace the system at the end of it’s life cycle.
In fact such costings have been done for coal fired generators, nuclear, solar and wind.
The cheapest is coal then nuclear followed well in the rear by the Renewables which are a disaster in every sense.
The surprising thing for most green adherents would be that ecologically the worst, most environmentally damaging option is the Renewables package.
That’s the engineering; sadly this need for electricity has been chosen by the world elites as the vehicle to corale, fleece and demean the rest of us.
As the citizens of several states in the U.S. have just shown, finally, it’s time to stand up to the hypocrisy and yell.
Citizens of New Jersey are protesting about offshore windmills because of environmental concerns about renewables.
Whales, and humans, deserve better.
620
The point emerging from the above is that this Snow Job was not given correct engineering assessment, including time required, because it’s purely a political thing where the intention is to create another damaging, draining event that shafts our nation.
Shades of the Great Big Barrier Reef Foundation.
520
Senate Estimates papers confirm the announcement was cobbled together in less than two weeks after the concept was floated by Snowy Hydro.
90
Most “bleeding-edge” technology fails miserably. The “built-environment” is the worst, with costs over $1,000US/SF that yield untenable bldgs.
30
Hardly bleeding edge, the existing Hydro has been there for decades
20
The bigger news is that this was reported on the Australian on the weekend when it’s sales are larger i.e. more people read it. Apart from the cost and poor planning, there must have been poor planning, there is the environmental damage. What is worse is the National Park enablers are so worried about a few horses roaming free that they employ helicopters and “marksmen” to shoot them. Can’t have part of our heritage upsetting the fragility of the National Park but it is OK to bulldoze miles of roads and work sites. The Man from Snowy River would now be able to gallop along formed roads rather than risk his life in the rugged mountain ranges.
470
Your comments Keith remind me of a cute saying:
Rocket science? That’s easy. Rocket engineering? Now that’s a bstard.
110
And yet somehow, fifty three years ago humans managed to engineer things so well that men could walk on the moon and come back home.
160
53, was it? On my brother’s 17th birthday.
It was quite an achievement, but I wasn’t amazed. It was only a glorified motor car that got them there. I was expecting it. But what really amazed me was that we could sit in our lounge rooms and watch them doing it in real time. Or almost real time, anyway.
A couple of months later I drove 240 miles to a cattle sale at Moree, getting there with time to spare. So I dropped in to the original satellite communications station (Was it Telstar? or Austar?) about three miles out of town, visitors welcome. It was a half hour well spent.
When they landed on the moon the US was out of sight, out of communication behind the earth. So the principal line of communication was through Tidbinbilla near Canberra, thence overland to Paddington in Sydney, overland again to Moree, then to the geostationary satellite, back down to the US satellite station at Jamestown in California, then overland to Houston where they decided if it was OK to send it out to the world. The approved signal then came back to Moree, and then out to us, half a second later. At Moree they had two CRT screens half a second apart.
I can’t recall how long it took for the signal to come from the moon. Can’t even recall how far it is, in miles or kiliometres. I used to know all those things.
50
Yes, mid 1969.
Mark’s comment reminds us that engineering is the application of science and that the modern application of “science” factoids in isolation from reality has given us so much pain.
Isolated science has given society Man Made Global Warming, Renewable? energy fables, fear of rising sea levels and the political clap trap linked to the COVID19 lockups, lockdowns and jabber programs.
Engineering coordinates truth.
30
It is probably the jewel in the crown of the biggest policy blunder in our history, wartime included.
Two engineers among the contingent of almost dead white males in The Energy Realists of Australia did a forensic investigation of the business case. It is not light reading and clearly the scheme should never have started.
510
It’s not a “blunder” Rafe, there’s deliberate intent involved.
440
Absolutely, KK. Such deliberate destruction doesn’t just happen by accident. It is part of a series of carefully planned events to destroy Australia as a viable nation, with similar events in all other Western nations, especially in the leading Western nation the United States whereby the present occupier of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave started his mission of destruction on his first day in office, obviously as a proxy of others as he is too demented to be capable of independent thought it action.
351
I agree, being mindful of NOT wishing to see myself as a swivel-eyed maniac. It seems that way, but why? Who benefits from destroying us? Surely the answer is “nobody” – not the world’s poor, not the Elite – unless they have in mind a future where AI runs everything and they have permanent lotus-eating holidays. It makes no sense to me; maybe Evil is like that?
40
It’s an engineered return to pre-Enlightenment, pre Scientific and pre Industrial Revolution times with serfs (most of us) ruled by the Elites.
What also you think “15 minute cities” are about?
Well, back in pre-Industrial Revolution times it was normal for a serf to spend his entire life within rmthe village he was born in, never going anywhere. He was a virtual slave of the Elites and that’s what they want to return us to.
70
I think the elites believe the middle class have risen too high, to the point where we are clogging up their planes and their holiday resorts. What better way to take us down a few pegs than deprive us of cheap, reliable power – the cornerstone of our prosperity. They just want obedient little slaves, anchored in their 15 min provinces. You can see the chinese social credit system and militarisation of our police force to enforce it, creeping in all the time. Covid response was a real eye opener as to what is planned.
80
No Snowy battery, then no renewables. See the link there to the money tree of renewables
81
Apparently there was consideration of such a scheme when Snowy 1 was being built all those years ago. It was shelved then as being impractical. Turnbull has form on backing losers, remember the nuclear/diesel submarines, and this is another. His biggest blunder was thinking he would be a better PM than Tony Abbott.
521
Yes, but does Turnbull profit from these ventures?
181
Turnbull’s son does- What % to the “Big Guy” is backhanded?
160
Turnbull should be put in the stocks and rotting matter smeared on his greasy mug. Personally I’d see him hanging from a lamppost – like Il Duce.
71
Rafe. I’ve been pointing out the following here and at New Cat and elsewhere for years, but getting no feedback…
Two years ago I was informed categorically that the tunneling would be a nightmare. Collapses were CERTAIN, and remedial action would be wildly expensive. IT WAS / IS A DUD as predicted.
Anyone can go to Bullock’s Hill or the Gooandra Trailhead (both on the Snowy Mts Highway between Kiandra and the long Plain rd turnoff (right/north), and look about for the roads etc leading to the core sampling areas. Alternately take the Tantangara Rd (very good gravel these days) and check out the major tunneling works underway at the lake(just before the Tantangara Dam wall). You can also take a peak into Lob’s Hole / Ravine from a trail near Bullock’s Hill.
Here’s the issue in a nutshell: the rock to be bored is highly fractured, and the tunnels will be running relatively close to the surface.
OK, so the first decision was to line the tunnels with concrete. This is not what happened with the real Snowy scheme since the tunnels were generally through solid rock and far below the surface.
When this failed….became obviously not enough, actual supports were placed behind the boring machines as they advanced = no reverse possible.
And that is all any non woke-dill needs to know. Fifteen-twenty kilometres of drilling through crumbly rock(held up by concrete), liable to fall in at any minute, is sure to fail.
The foolish man built his house upon the sand etc!
400
Thanks Mantaray, I am surprised that i did not acknowledge your comments, years ago before the work started I met some old Snowy hands who had some discussion with the Snowy2.0 team, they came away shaking their heads, the young turks were not interested in their lifetimes of experience, first in the original Snowy and then around the world with the SMEC consultancy. One told me that he was sure that they were not taking adequate account of the hydrology of the strata they were drilling through.
50
With poor eyesight and reading this on a phone, I read
Maybe it was in the back of my mind that it was Turnbull’s idea.
270
An understandable association, both are tacky.
200
411
Whilst Snowy 2 is certainly a major (the biggest ?) waste of publick money,.. i dont think it is the BIGGEST green energy farce.
That prize would more likely go to the Suncable project in the NT with 30 GW of Solar planned to produce 3GW to export via 5000 km of subsea cable to a country that refuses to comit to buying it !
..a Green “Megga Con “ ?
391
Wasn’t government money provided for the initial assessment?
170
$14 million of taxpayer money was thrown away on the project. Relatively small on the vast scale of government waste, but still unacceptable. The money could have been spent on something useful.
I’m not sure if land was given to them.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/01/collapse-of-the-35-billion-sun-cable/
180
It’s never been stated whether the NT govt poured money into this project. Did the $14m come from the NT govt or from elsewhere?
70
Not sure. The source of taxpayer money is not mentioned in the linked article.
41
The majority of the Australian people and all State Governments plus the Federal Government are possibly the world’s most fanatical believers in the anthropogenic global warming fraud.
This “white elephant” project is only the beginning.
It was initiated not by real engineers but an arrogant, foolish, scientifically and technically incompetent woke green politician. Politicians should never be allowed to make scientific or engineering decisions.
This project was leveraged off the excellent reputation of the properly-designed original Snowy Mountains Scheme, an innovative and world-leading hydroelectric scheme built 1949-1974.
SH2 was also fraudulently represented as though it was new generation when it is just an expensive battery.
The idea is also not new. The possibility of building this battery was always known about by real engineers of the original hydro scheme but always judged not to be economical, and, of course, it still isn’t.
No honest real engineer would have gone ahead with this project.
We will see more of these vast wastes of money, in addition to all the economy-destroying wind and solar subsidy harvesting schemes we already have.
Almost no one cares about Australia’s massive national debt or the systematic destruction of Australia’s energy supply.
Australia takes guidance not from voters or properly qualified people but far-Left and incompetent fanatical ideologues in government, the public “service”, other institutions, the crony-capitalist subsidy harvesters and some of the world’s most evil people in the UN and WEF.
It won’t end well.
560
I’m not sure if it’s still the case but Talbingo and Jounama dams worked as a small pumped hydro system when they were first built. I remember my dad talking about it.
90
The original Snowy Hydro Schene had and still does have pumped hydro between Tumut 3 and the pondage you mention. But that was properly engineered and cost-effective.
120
It was also a by product of a bigger system
The Snowy scheme was not built to generate electrcity. It was built to regulate rivers for water supply.
10
This was done to store energy from coal plants that could not be turned off at night to help with peak energy.
I doesn’t work very well for renewables
71
Totally agree David. Make the most of what’s left of the good times with the time where’ve got left. Pity the younger gen’s, their just going along with the indoctrination. Trouble’s coming for future Aristocrat’s though cos same gen’s have been educated in the art of Activism. Oh the insubordination!
121
For a comprehensive demolition of this extremely silly misuse of Australian taxpayer money see the recent ‘Overview’ carried out by a group of public spirited engineers:
https://newcatallaxy.blog/wp- content/uploads/2022/08/Snowy-2.0-PHES-Scheme- Overview-1.pdf
Green environmentalists might also want to know about the endangered Pygmy Possum. It lives in the area where the bulldozers of Snowy 2.0 are busily destroying one of the remaining habitats of this small cute gliding possum. Find a photo of the creature here:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=B%2bYAwz3L&id=79B819E8F023096CBCDA83ABB1BEA62DA260D71B&thid=OIP.B-YAwz3LIK-4D_suIX989gHaHA&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fs.yimg.com%2fuu%2fapi%2fres%2f1.2%2flkt6RTWO8TO4ByOoP8j50A–%7eB%2faD05Njg7dz0xMDI0O3NtPTE7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-%2fhttp%3a%2f%2fmedia.zenfs.com%2fen_us%2fNews%2fafp.com%2f66a0fd0eb824756270a64c17d114571e03cdc5eb.jpg&exph=968&expw=1024&q=Pygmy+Possum+%3f&simid=608010693470088185&FORM=IRPRST&ck=1D68D115C49523795C63F167CFE4C372&selectedIndex=0&idpp=overlayview&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0
Remember the Tasmanian Dam protests. Large glossy photographs of the Franklin River adorned airport terminals throughout Australia. Bob Hawke made the Dam an election issue in the election which brought him to Canberra. With the help of Gareth ‘Biggles’ Evans and photographs taken by military aircraft and the High Court the Dam protest succeeded.
I am sure that large glossy photos of the Pygmy Possum would be more effective at stopping Snowy 2.0 than acres of newsprint. And the Greens Party would be the perfect action group ……. after all the Party grew out of the 1982 Tasmanian Dam protests.
Maybe a coalition of Greens and TEALs will succeed in stopping Snowy 2.0 !!
Jim Hutchison
160
I do a lot of bushwalking (hiking) and it is extremely rare, if not unknown to see a typical inner-city soy-latte sipping purple-haired Green deep in the Australian bush, or anywhere near it. And you absolutely never see them volunteer for invasive weed removal or rubbish clean-up programs.
301
David,
Wont see any Teslas in the carpark either….
210
The endangered pygmie possums will all be able to move to Victorian forests. With the latest push to end all (extremely well managed ) native timber harvesting by June this year, the possums just need to “glide” south where they can live in green utopia. That is, of course, until all of the beutiful unmanaged bush burns again.
Equally, I am sure that other endangered possum, leadbetters , you know the one that was extinct for 70 years then suddenly appeared at every proposed logging coupe, will welcome all and any new immigrants. Doesn’t matter that both species share very similar habitat, may the best possum win.
80
Jim
That New Cat link returns a “page not found”
10
Likely Rafe’s link at #3
10
I remember when the Greens touted the slogan ‘No More Dams’ and now here we are, where the ‘Deniers’ are touting the slogan ‘No Damn More”.
I prefer Goldy or Bronzy, rather than Irony – because of the added shiny shiny…
130
Can’t we get one of the local first Australians to claim that it will disturb the rainbow serpent.
It would be cancelled by five o’clock today.
260
That would be the Ngarigo, Walgalu and Southern Ngunnawal tribes.
There is no opposition from indigenous Australians that can’t be silenced by giving them more taxpayer money and other “free stuff”.
I have seen no opposition to SH2 from these tribes.
250
SH2 / H2S – smells the same!
90
I learned about the rainbow serpent at primary school. I always thought it a mythological creature.
About 5 years ago my wife and three of her sisters flew to Uluru and hired a car for a few days.
At one point they were walking, she was not very strong and hung back while the others walked on. She then saw a little snake among the rocks. About 80cm long, it had an orange head and fore end, a gunmetal centre section, and an orange rear end. She took some phone photos, but sadly they didn’t focus well, and she said their colour doesn’t do the snake justice. She said the colours were beautiful, brilliant.
Our research says it was a yellow faced whip snake, but in my view it qualifies for the title of Rainbow Serpent. I haven’t heard any more since.
30
I forgot to mention that this was on the first of August, which would be early here to see snakes out and about.
20
Snowy 2.0 is an even bigger disaster than Queensland 2032 Olympics. It’s several billion times worse economically and environmentally! The State and Federal Politicians that facilitated it should be castrated. These balless excuses for leaders are beyond logical condemnation! Driving our economy into perennial (a term often used to describe plants with little or no woody growth) debt and self-enrichment is all they know
160
Aha, Penguinite- but Debt is a POSITIVE for the LENDERS. Once you appreciate that it is just a scam to enrich the top 0.0000025 % everything suddenly becomes clear. The uber rich (which we do not appreciate) have to invest in schemes like War and Stock bubbles etc. to circulate their ill gotten gains. ( Warning- the link is quite a red pill to take).
50
Thanks again Jo for trying to keep the pressure on these loony pollies, so called scientists, the far left MSM etc.
This must be the most expensive battery ever and of course ZERO impact on the weather, climate or droughts or floods or SLR etc, etc.
Just THINK how many modern, RELIABLE, BASE-LOAD HELE coal plants this could fund until 2100 and no need for this delusional, environmental DISASTER.
But why do the clueless Greens + Teals + Labor + most of the Coalition think this 20 billion $ WASTE of money will somehow deliver a nicer climate sometime in the future?
Don’t they understand the DATA since 1988 and if not why not?
250
With all the billions that Australian governments is borrowing and the banks are creating , waste and corruption are inevitable and I think this is both . Everyone still thinks its OK to spend “other peoples money” but assumes that there won’t be consequences . Reality is coming and this will probably drive a stake through its heart .
120
Watch the money be thrown away in pseudo real time at the rate of around $400,000 per minute, or believe it or not, $6,666 per second.
Total federal, State and local government debt.
I wonder what hard working net-tax-paying people would think if they bothered to find out or care?
https://australiandebtclock.com.au/
110
Snowy Hydro 2 would be a joke if it was’nt so bloody serious !!
100
$20 billion? For something that is a net negative energy producer? For perspective, it would cost about $10 billion to build 2000MW of coal power these days, which would provide electricity for 50+ years.
For another perspective, windmills have a nameplate capacity of 2.5MW and last about 15 years. You’d need about 10,000 windmills to cover, say, a Liddell over its lifetime.
220
I can’t meet the challenge Jo throws out – MGSGEP, but I will offer an alternative Australian effect:
I recall the movies “The Man from Snowy River”(I & II), with Sigrid Thornton, although truth be told, I don’t remember the plots. She also starred in “Paradise” on American TV, a CBS series. There is this: In his book The Big Shift, about changing Australian demographics and culture, Bernard Salt coined the term the “Sigrid factor” pointing out that Australian towns in which movies had been made featuring Thornton had prospered since that time.
70
John, all you need to know about the “plot” The movies were based on this poem. There are a couple of coloqualisms in the first 2 verses but then it settles down to English as she used to be spoken in Oz,
“There was movement at the station ( ranch )
for the word had got around that the colt from”Old regret” ( I cant remember whether Old regret was the dam or the sire ) had got away
And had joined the wild bush horse, he was worth a thousand pounds
So all the cracks ( best of the bunch ) had gathered for the fray.
There was Harrison, who made his pile when Pardon won the cup ( Harrison made a fortune betting on “Pardon” a racehourse that won the worlds best know race, the Melbourne Cup)
And there was one a stripling on a small and weedy beast, something like a racehorse undersize, with a touch of Timor pony, 3 parts thoroughbred at least, and such horses are by mountain horsemen prized. ( These horses are known as Brumbies today and are being shot in their thousands from helicopters as the government has deemed them not suitable to inhabit our high country due to environmental damage)”
These wild horses inhabit the Kosciuszko national park where Snowy 2 is being built
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjU_vrmwaX9AhVxxjgGHdRWDZYQFnoECCAQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.middlemiss.org%2Flit%2Fauthors%2Fpatersonab%2Fpoetry%2Fsnowy.html&usg=AOvVaw2mrzqHUrRWkv9-4ZjGy_ac
50
Snowy 2 personifies the “green spending philosophy”, where cost benefit, feasibility, and environmental studies are completely bypassed in the name of blind ideology and we all end up much poorer for the experience. Snowy 2 is so bad that the term “white elephant” can’t capture this mess. This is more of a white dinosaur or perhaps something even bigger. The only positive outcome is that it will be forever linked to Malcolm Turnbull.
130
It looks like NOAA is gradually adjusting the latest 8 year global temperature pause and could soon deliver a positive trend in the near future.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/02/20/is-noaa-trying-to-warm-the-current-8-year-pause/
120
For another perspective, the magnificent Snowy Mountains Project has likely paid for itself umpteen times over (I’ve never seen a study), and will continue to pay forever, as long as we maintain the infrastructure. All that water heading inland rather than out to sea, with the crazy idea of improving the nation’s productivity over the long term. What were they thinking?
The very name ‘Snowy 2.0’ is a travesty and insult, and we should find another for this cesspit of a project.
Perhaps ‘Malcolm’s Folly’?
170
What would the price of carrots be in Sydney and Melbourne without it?
That is something that modern economists don’t comprehend.
20
Buy a diesel generator NOW! Before there’s a run on them and then you’ll be sitting in the dark. Elections have consequences folks, at least with the LNP we had a chance of keeping and building new coal-fired power stations, now with each way Albo its lights out, bwahaha, enjoy.
170
I think there’s a bit of Baldrick cunning going on here , make electricity so expensive no one can afford it so we end up needing less generation .
120
I agree Robert.
Australia has been saved from major grid failure (so far) simply because electricity has become so expensive industry has shut down and people at home elect to freeze or boil because they are using less heating and cooling or none at all
110
It was obvious when they removed tungsten bulbs.
50
Turnbull did that.
40
That could lead to a whole list of projects, each of which would deserve its own Turnbull badged “I did that” sign
10
We can also thank 3 La Niña’s in a row for keeping enough water in the Snowy to allow hydro to replace gas during peak usage periods.
40
What alternative universe were you living in for the past decade?
150
Agreed.
Whether its liebor, liberal or greens, politicians have jumped on the unreliables bandwagon.
The only difference has been how long until we reach armageddon.
50
More Electric Vehicle Lunacy
After the American Version
The Lunacy of Electric Vehicles – How’s your day going? – in 17 Secs
https://twitter.com/NoDMsPerfavore/status/1626285317597667330?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1626285317597667330%7Ctwgr%5E4aff3409de2a5bb28d26610dc0faea569d76cd2b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fredstate.com%2Fjimthompson%2F2023%2F02%2F17%2Fford-halts-production-of-its-f-150-e-truck-but-dont-worry-its-just-a-problem-with-the-battery-n704983
PS – The little things some people notice – Explains so Much!
We have the European version – Electric Smart Car being charged with Petrol generator on Roof
Gasoline generator on electric car
20
Chis Bowen thinks they’re great.
10
We had to destroy the environment to save it!
60
Where I live they pump water from a creek about four kilometres to fill three big dams and all the dams are infested with Redfin , fun to catch and quite good to eat but they will try and swallow any fish they think will fit in their mouths . Ok in the local dams but not so good in the local waterways and lakes .
120
For those interested, here is a “5 minute version” of “The Man From Snowy River” story.
https://youtu.be/jo51fIu_fjk
It shows the beautiful country of the Snowy Mountains, where the original Snowy Mountains Scheme was built and the current SH2 disaster under construction.
It represents Australia in the 1880’s in a more sensible, rational time when people actually worked doing useful things and would think for themselves.
The wild horses portrayed are now being systematically killed by Government.
100
AGAIN here’s global Human co2 emissions since 1970, or 1988 if you prefer.
Check out China and “other developing countries” co2 emissions and try to learn and THINK.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fossil_carbon_dioxide_emissions_six_top_countries_and_confederations.png
50
It is a powerful graph Neville and leads to many questions, all of which the world remains silent about.
30
The world is too busy planning it’s next holiday . .
30
At the moment they appear to be busily planning (and implementing) the next world war.
60
Here’s my comment 24 hours ago about their fantasy world and the REAL planet Earth since Dr Hansen’s loony Washington DC speech in 1988.
In fact global population has increased by nearly 3 billion in the last 35 years and much higher life expectancy, HEALTH and WEALTH over that very short period of time.
The Australian population in 1990 was about 17.1 million and today about 26 million.
BUT poor Africa increased their population by 34 million in just the last year.
Their 2022 pop was 1426 million and 2023 population now 1460 million.
So what’s so terrible about Biden’s clueless EXISTENTIAL THREAT since 1990? And why was Dr Hansen and his dopey pupil Gore etc so wrong about their climate data over the last 35 years?
In fact Humans have thrived more over this period than at any time in the last 200,000 years.
AGAIN just look up the DATA.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AFR/africa/population
80
I can’t claim it is more stupid, but it’s expensive – floating offshore windmills.
The comparison to gas price is out of date, but it’s probably still cheaper to use gas.
There is a link to an earlier article in the link too.
https://www.netzerowatch.com/levelised-cost-floating-offshore-wind/
90
A good effort MrGrimNasty: Entry accepted.
. I estimate the LCOE figure as £224/MWh.
And that’s without the cost of back up or storage too? That is shockingly expensive when brown coal here in Australia used to be £20/MWh from 50 year old coal plants. So let’s look at the total costs and money lost on offshore wind. It might be more stupid than Snowy 2.0. I warn you though, that Australia is about to enter the race with our stupid offshore wind. Given that the data is already in on how daft the UK offshore wind industry is, if we go ahead and clock up billions, surely that will be even more provably stupid, because we can’t even pretend “we didn’t know” before we started.
And all stupidity will, of course, be assessed on a per capita basis…
150
They should acknowledge that the whole idea is crazy and throw in the towel.
“The concerning thing is that if they’ve only got 200 metres in 10 months, that’s an average rate of only 60 centimetres a day. Now, these machines were designed to travel 30 metres a day, and in good conditions, 50 metres a day.” (ABC)
80
Michael Moore produced a movie/doco a few years ago called “Planet of the Humans”. It was presented by an enlightened old greenie who had finally seen the light on all the dodgy green projects. Also featured the likes of Michael Schellenberger, himself an enlightened greenie who’s had his head turned around ( so to speak ). The film portrayed a lot the crazy “green energy” scandals in the US, including :-
– old solar power industrial installations left to just denigrate after going broke. Hectares of solar panels left to rot.
– pits where old wind turbine blades were buried because they cant be recycled ( so much for “renewable” )
– pristine forest demolished to make way for the construction of wind turbine towers
– Mills devoted to felling native forest to make wood pellets to be shipped to UK to be burnt for electricity generation
But for me the per de la resistance was the opening scene at some hippy rock festival in California or Ohio where it was advertised all power was going to be supplied by solar. Except it clouded over and rained whereby the organisers hooked up the diesel generators. I dont recall pumped hydro being one of the subjects, but I think the “Utopia ” TV Australian show ( Rob Sitch etc ) could do a whole series on the Snowy II debacle. Except the show is supposed to be semi-humorous and Snowy II is no laughing matter.
130
AGAIN if the impact of the Toba volcano explosion 70,000 years ago is accurate Humans may have been reduced to a few thousand at that time. Who knows?
And the best estimate by 1 AD is a global population of 150 to 200 million.
Then a population of 1 billion by 1810 and 2 billion by 1927 and 3 billion by 1960, then 4 billion by 1974 then 5 billion by 1987, then 6 billion by 1999, then 7 billion by 2011 and now 8.1 billion by 2023.
Yet the rate of Human population increase has been falling since 1962. See Macrotrends and Dr Rosling ‘s data etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimates_of_historical_world_population
60
With Snowy the Greens aren’t fit,
To deal with this dear piece of kit,
Every runaway cost,
On this project is lost,
Down the drain of a bottomless pit.
210
Back in the day, major projects had large engineering and economic studies to determine if they were worthwhile before any money was wasted.
70
What? Our resident Green Leftists have nothing to say? Cat got your tongues?
60
They’re stuck at the bottom of a sand pit.
60
To highlight just how wonderfully effective these pumped hydro schemes really are, the largest existing Pumped Hydro plant in Australia, Tumut 3, has been operating for the last 25 years at a Capacity Factor of, umm
Last year was a good one for Tumut 3 Pumped Hydro. It operated at a Capacity Factor of 8.2%
It sort of instils so much confidence that, once operational this wonderful power plant will solve so many problems ….. eh!
Tony.
200
Tony
Not sure the comparison fits well.
These small schemes were designed to tide supply over emergency bumps while another generator is cranked up. Or maybe just get over a peak. They are not big scale or big expense. Like your car battery, if your using more than 10% regularly your doing something wrong.
Doug
40
FarmerDoug2,
When it happens, I can track it down and see what happened.
One of those big coal fired Units drops off line. (Here, I’m talking unscheduled, as maintenance etc is covered before the big Unit goes off line, so that replacement power is up and running as the maintenance Unit is taken off line)
Sometimes, there’s usually a hint of a failure, and as that trip begins, then automatically, the message gets back to the Engineers running the grid.
First call is to the numerous hydro units. At Tumut 3 they have 300MW units, six of them, and there’s also Murray One and Two as well, so there is a lot of power that can be called on in an emergency.
A big coal fired Unit is typically 500MW to 660MW, so you can see all that hydro easily covers that.
Within minutes those hydro Units run up, delivering power as the big coal Unit fails, pretty much seamlessly really. At the same time, OCGT’s are called up to provide cover. As they run up a little slower than the hydro Units, it takes then a little longer before they are at full power delivery, also depending on how many Units are required as well. Once those OCGT’s are on line, more often than not, those hydro Units are shut down.
It’s all so seamless that no one even knows it’s happened in the first place other than the engineers themselves.
Umm, here’s one I prepared earlier, just one of a dozen or more I have done across the years. (Friday 13July 2018) Scroll down to the main text under the data collection in the section titled Comments for this day, and you’ll see the three image sequence and explanation.
Australian Daily Electrical Power Generation Data – Friday 13th July 2018
Tony.
50
All of this begs the question, where do the original cost estimates come from?
They are usually not based on any facts.
Politicians and public serpents usually just make them up.
Sometimes they might come up with a precise number like “$17.4 million” which sounds like it might be calculated. Well, those numbers are made up too.
By the time the cost blow-outs are revealed, the original made-up numbers are either forgotten or it’s too late to do anything about it.
60
There is only so much detail you can scrawl on an airline napkin David!
80
Thanks Jo.
Again we see the “command” style politically based decision making showing its utter unsuitability and devastating waste.
Good to see the Australian commentary here, but when will we see cries from the rest of the media over this total waste of taxpayer funds, and environmental vandalism on a grand scale.
I think we know the answer here. As this is an untouchable renewable related project there will be crickets and there will be no political will to assess why such an unsuitable project was even contemplated, and worse still, pushed on and on when the costs dramatically climbed.
110
The longer it goes the more stupid we are made to look.
Besides, with this in front of us we can’t see the real issue, the abuse of trust.
90
We have to hear from Dutton on this, he is on record saying that renewable energy cannot be stored.
Essentially, the Opposition have to raise the matter, forcing the MSM to discuss the issue in a bipartisan way.
30
Forcing the MSM to discuss the issue in a bipartisan way?
Thanks. A little humour never goes astray.
100
Re Climate Change: We don’t have any billionaires on our side, or do we? … They’ve got GAΤES and SΟRΟS leaving vapour trails through the atmosphere, writing books and giving speeches for their cause; but who’s the equivalent on our side?
Sοrοs is promoting this guy:
Sir David King wants man-made clouds to deflect sunshine from the Arctic, but DON’T WORRY coz “proper scientific safeguards” and “consultation with local indigenous communities” will keep us safe. (There you go: the Eskimos have historical expertise in the art of placing man-made clouds, it’s not just a myth).
LINK to foxnews.com
50
Sadly there don’t seem to be any of the rich and powerful who have figured out ways to become richer and more powerful by resisting the global warming scam.
50
Snowpiercer,here we come.
40
Elon Musk has moved slightly right by purchasing Twitter and attempting to uphold free speech. So much so that the lefties think he’s Hitler of the Month.
50
95% of politicians are idiots with a high regard of their abilities, but with with little common sense, no grasp of fundamental economics, never run a business, never employed other people, and have no understanding of profitability or return on capital expenditure. This applies to all parties: Liberal, Labor, Greens, Teals etc. No CEO would employ them except to gain favour with government hand-outs.
They come from a left-leaning politicised education, working in government enterprises, and chosen the political life because it’s well paid, long term with little responsibility, and to “make a difference”. Unfortunately, the difference they make is negative to Australia.
They believe whatever they are told by similar left-leaning individuals, organisations, media etc, because they don’t have the life experience, education, and first hand knowledge of what is required to solve real problems, only the ability to “parrot” whatever they are told. Hence they champion stupid topics like “The Voice to Parliament”, Electric cars, Climate change, power prices etc, but never things like developing regional Australia, Aboriginal living conditions, crime, cost of living, teaching a classic education, ensuring we are able to build our requirements to defend ourselves, produce essential materials and manufacture local supply chains.
The biggest problem as I see it, is why do we elect more and more of these turkeys into our parliaments.
The problem is of our own making.
50
It’s turkeys all the way down!
10
So the question is, how is one going to stop this raping of the land and theft of our money?
Regards
Climate Heretic
70
When the Market no longer buys any more Federal Guv’ment Debt,
30
The problem with all the renewables projects is that the politicians and activists will always refuse to believe that what they’re doing as wrong. Having spent billions and heading for a disaster when someone like AEMO ( itself an activist) points out that where racing headlong into an energy disaster the response of idiots like Andrews is ‘ well we just have to build more renewables and transition faster. The sensible response is let’s take a break , we’ve already spent billions , we’ve got billions more to spend and we’re are not looking like we’ll make it. Let’s backtrack let’s reassess, let’s perhaps do something different.
But those in charge are too stubborn to admit failure. Yes the desalination plants never get used but you never know about the future. To anyone with half a brain renewables can’t get us there so let’s try something that will. Maybe we could adapt to climate events rather than pretend that a few wind turbines and a few solar panels and a Snowy 2.0 will actually do anything.
20
It’s called the precautionary principle Zigmaster. Of course, you cant spend enough now to save the planet later. (sarc, big time) But then, the precautionary principle can be applied a little selectively when it comes to governments as we witnessed during COVID. Risk : Benefit analysis ? What’s that?
40
There appears to be a peculiar variant of the principle in a context of ideological formulated catastrophe:
Where catastrophe is feared, lack of full scientific certainty that innovative measures to prevent catastrophe won’t themselves be disastrous failures, should not prevent the full expression of the disastrous failures.
30
We need one or two to buy the BP coal mines they are off-loading in Queensland. The direct effect of government policy will be blackouts and worse.
“Mining giant BHP is selling two Queensland coal mines as higher royalties bite and aims to recoup costs in NSW after government intervention in energy markets.”
https://inqld.com.au/business/2023/02/21/bhp-profit-plunges-by-33-per-cent-but-optimism-remains-for-demand-outlook/
30
oops, sorry, meant to be a reply to Forrest’s comment at 36.1
40
“Wind, Solar, and Household Electricity Prices”
“Conclusion: From all of the above, ie. from looking at the full picture, wind and solar demonstrably drive up the cost of electricity.
But then, everyone who reads outside the controlled media already knew that.”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/02/20/wind-solar-and-household-electricity-prices/
30
Penned in 1978 on a long aircraft flight.
Geoff S
MAN FROM SNOWY RIVER – THE SEQUEL.
The Man from Snowy River is no more.
The Man from Snowy River is no more.
He’s put away his bridle,
His whip is lying idle
And there’ll never be another saddle sore.
He used to roam the Snowy Mountains blue,
A horseman and a drover through and through.
Now his horse is gone forever –
Its hide will make some leather
And its hoofs will make another pot of glue.
The colt from Old Regret has got away.
It will not live to fight another day.
A native, it was not –
It’s a feral, to be shot,
For the bureaucrats have had the final say.
The mountain men raised cattle on this land.
Now cattle, like the horses, have been banned.
Native fauna’s been OKayed,
The official order’s made
By a weak and distant Parliamentary hand.
The Man from Snowy River is no more,
But his ghost can count on visitors galore.
They’ve made the place a park
From 9 am to dark
And now they’re selling tickets at the door.
There’s a giant plastic Banjo by the track.
The movie’s been to Hollywood and back.
The coaches and the buses
Transport the eighty-pluses
Where once the sound of stockwhips used to crack.
The Man from Snowy River, in outline,
Adorns the pub with flashing neon sign.
There’s history to tell
Inside of this hotel
That sells Culture and a passable old wine.
If the Man from Snowy River could now see
This place of quiche where real men used to be,
He’d take his name with shame
From the Stockmens’ Hall of Fame
And die a thousand deaths, posthumously.
110
😊😊😊😊😊
30
What a tragedy he knifed the one man who could have made a difference, our most popularly elected PM in recent years. And proceeded to wreck the joint with his Green agenda, saving the Great Barrier Reef with a massive cash handout to his wife and friends and then a save the windmills move. It was madness at the time, but he was losing power and determined to make his impact. He has. This was supposed to be a profitable project.
You can only conclude that the self appointed smartest man in the room was not. That if he had not inherited millions in cash from his father he would not have made it in the business world where everyone seems a lot smarter than he was. And Kerry Packer fired him.
His real legacy is his incredible jealousy of Tony Abbott and to make sure Tony was not given the chance to show Climate Change up as a complete crock. Australia is still suffering from having such as weasel as PM.
Turnbull and Lucy were Woke before anyone else could afford it. And Turnbulls Liberals(tm) were a disaster, even eclipsing Julia Gillard’s Education Revolution and her misogyny defence of the appalling Peter Slipper cruising gay bars in Commonwealth cars.
What did Australia do to deserve such people?
The fossil fuel component of CO2 is 1/10th of what the IPCC says. There was never any need for the windmills or solar panels or carbon taxes or carbon credits.
And no one is protesting outside the Chinese embassy against the country which generates more CO2 than all other countries combined.
So it’s all fake. And Snowy Too is nonsense. Which is what you would expect from the dumbest man in the room. I hope he’s not expecting a statue too.
80
As with ALL such “boondoggles” and government projects in general:
FOLLOW THE “SPILLAGE”!
50
Zigmaster
February 21, 2023 at 12:17 pm · Reply
“Maybe we could adapt to climate events rather than pretend that a few wind turbines and a few solar panels and a Snowy 2.0 will actually do anything.”
Exactly. Just do what Mother Nature does and adapt. A lot easier and a lot, lot cheaper and more cost effective.
60
A little desperation appears to be creeping into the rhetoric:
20
Your ABC has a little piece online about electricity generation shortfalls in 3 years. Lol.
30
And here’s me thinking it was just a new episode of Utopia
10
Oh Ye of Little Faith
“Aussie Climate Minister Rejects Claims the Grid will Fail when the Generators are Decommissioned”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/02/21/aussie-climate-minister-rejects-claims-the-grid-will-fail-when-the-generators-are-decommissioned/
20