In terms of civilization, Niall Ferguson is speaking simple maths. The arithmetic of resources. Something which is almost never said.
Niall Ferguson:
“For an enormous island that is thinly populated, with enormous resources — for such an island to be ill-defended seems like the most spectacular folly…
Empires, at some level, are about acquiring commodities at below market prices, or at least not trusting to the market to supply you — not to be at the mercy of the market, or the mercy of a navy, the US Navy, which China currently is.
To have security China cannot be dependent on imported commodities and market prices, when you think about what that implies for Australia, its really quite scary…
Australia is a prize…
“If you want Peace, prepare for War.
If you want War, act like it will never come. Allow your defense capability to atrophy.”
The lucky country needs to prepare
Alistair Rae, Stats Maps and Pix.
The rulers of China would be irrational not to want more land to feed people, and control of more resources. Australia has the largest known uranium reserves in the world, the 2nd largest cobalt, lithium, tungsten, vanadium resources. It is in the top five for world economic resources of black coal, brown coal, gold, copper, ilmenite, magnesite, manganese ore, silver, tin.
Australia has 0.3% of global population but is currently producing 27% of global bauxite, 36% of the world’s iron ore, and 53% of it’s total lithium. It is often the largest exporter of coal and sometimes the largest exporter of LNG, and the second largest producer of gold.
–source: Geoscience Australia
Australians assume that the US will be there, but it looks more and more like it is at war with itself.
h/t David E
Looking at that Population Map, Australia does look ripe for plucking.
230
Our politicians create laws that are hypocrites to importation of the same materials and products that our governments deem illegal to produce in our own country’s along with being babysitters to everything we do and make illegal much of that activity too. Are you legal to work without a multitude of government approval training?
250
“Australia has the largest known uranium reserves ” they tell us.
Why would anybody else bother to explore for uranium when Australia applies the most efficient technology to mining it and sells it to the world at cost?
Future generations will curse us for giving it away.
160
We have ALWAYS looked ripe for plucking. Populate or Perish was the rally call back after WW2. Our military is only good for 48hours. We haven’t the fuel reserves to wage more than a couple of days. Our Air Force is a token wing of fighters and a squadron of bombers. Our Navy is undermanned and our Army is led by a woke “elite” (cannot even call them a general staff) We cannot even arm a militia because the Hawke/ keating government sold off our stocks of old weapons. A 303 can kill better than a Styr!
100
IS ripe for the plucking. FIFY
Blind freddie and his dog has been able to see this for years, don’t have to be a fancy academic.
30
If words could win wars, the current government would rule the world. We’ve got submarines, drones, missiles, airforce galore with the most modern planes, etc etc – all in the mind. All the plans but no extra funding and the pea and thimble tricks. Our politicians invade China and say they use strong words while genuflecting for trade. Who could beat us – if war is fought or lands defended by words? The EU before Trump might have given us a bit of trouble, but we all learned from each other – the power of words.
201
The piece in The Australian by William Stoltz one Wednesday a few weeks ago on the educational requirements of future defence, in particular the nuclear submarines, showed clearly why all the talk of defence is utterly unserious. Since the government’s statement that they have a deal under the framework of AUKUS nothing has happened except release of the Strategic Defence Review, which said very little. The Opposition supports the government’s stated position but seems wary of pursuing the matter with vigour.
Neither party seems to recognise that defence is calculated waste built upon a system of values. What deep-seated values do Australians today share that would lead them—us—to engage with the requirements of serious defence, that is, to put in place the structures and systems that will deter any potential enemy from military action?
110
China seems idiologically driven to try Taiwan first. Have to find a way to conquer without destroying industrial capbility/willingness to work if hte defenders of Taiwan Semi blow up the foundries and drink kool aid what’s the prize worth? But it may not matter given the motivation. Afterwards, it will be China v World and OZ is unlikely to lack allies…in the meantime India has many of the same needs as China and a common language. And a growing defence
200
Ironically The West have made China strong by exporting our jobs and technology there, then buying them back in the form of manufactured goods, many of which we deem essential in order to achieve some mad green goal.
as a result China has grown Rich, is the worlds largest creditor nation and constantly looks for sources of raw materials it will need for the next 50 years knowing that our green obsession will make us highly reliant on them.
Australia is right in the firing line through a combination of having many under protected resources and being unwise in some of its trading arrangements, making itself vulnerable to Chinese pressures. Hopefully it woke up with the Aukus deal and the setting in train of other alliances, military, political and economic.
300
There desire for our exports is to feed their factory, which then export the finished products to the world.
Look at Chile which has started to process lithium rather than just export it to China and import batteries.
There feel that there may be factories (and jobs) in Chile (following on Indonesia’s success).
110
Why do do say “ironically”? It was deliberate, at least on the part of the US. They wanted China to become a “world citizen” the way Japan did. That they failed was not for the wont of trying.
151
The industrial West originally sought Chinese manufactured goods on the basis they would be cheaper, hence more profitable for those corporations which chose to have their products made in China. Surprised when those very items turned out to be extremely poorly made, they then had to supply the manufacturers of shoddy goods with more information, help develop better manufacturing processes, provide access to technological advancements, etc. All so that the Chinese could supply goods manufactured to acceptable Western standards.
This has now backfired by empowering the Chinese and accelerating their rise to power, including military power, which fed off their acquisition of our hard won knowledge.
The fact that they are also very adept when it comes to acquiring knowledge via clandestine means is also a factor in our slow demise.
The rulers of the celestial kingdom have played the long game well.
120
China is a Communist country. They don’t want only what Australia has; they want what anybody has.
322
China is communist in name only, its actually a totalitarian fascist dictatorship, or socialism with Chinese characteristics.
243
Name a communist state that has not been totalitarian, fascistic and a dictatorship.
140
The dictatorship of the proletariat wasn’t Karl’s idea, it was a hybrid created through war. China followed in Russia’s footsteps until Mao died and then the new brooms created the greatest economic revolution the world has ever seen.
They are very clever capitalists.
22
As it is, China is quite willing to let the big companies do the mining work, and send them the raw materials.
Getting raw materials costs a lot of money and organisation.
If our government is stupid enough to try to slow those exports, that is when they put Australia in jeopardy.
So long as we continue to sell our raw materials to them as a reasonable rate, why would they ever want the challenges of trying to develop the infrastructure in what is, in most cases, rather inhospitable environments.
212
My thoughts exactly.
51
Mind you we are, and always have been victims of economic colonialism- which is why we only sell raw materials and are, as we have been told by our economists, forced to purchase finished goods, because costs. Yet we can mine and sell our gas cheaply, so why not make gas stoves?
50
We can’t make gas stoves cheaper than China, people can decide whether to pay more, but it would be a risky venture. At least it allows the free market to operate correctly.
We are a quarry, once outpost of empire and now allied with adventurism.
43
El g – why? Human costs are only a fraction of the costs for making a stove. I repeat – we can sell raw materials competitively and they have human costs at the same percentage as those in white goods. We are just a colony, and we will be protected by our masters, which now has pivoted from Britain via the USA to China
12
Its a question of free market economics and political will.
Our colonial days are well behind us and attachment to the American Alliance is misguided jingoism.
We don’t need protection from China, they have invented a new form of capitalism and have no intention of squandering their gains in futile warfare, its a waste of resources.
31
Without slave labor here, and a willingness to allow industrial production that pollutes the air and water (real pollution) we can hardly compete with costs in China.
b.nice — it’s not just about us being a “nice” reliable seller of goods to China, as Ferguson said, if we control the goods and supply lines, China doesn’t. We have the power to withdraw supply if we think China behaves badly, say by carelessly unleashing a bioweapon and lying about it.
If China can be a bad global citizen and face no penalty, then we are just a slave quarry with nice conditions, but no guarantee China won’t lie, deceive and harm us.
Scott Morrison, for all his failings, asked for an investigation and China-the-bully was the one that slammed on the brakes for our goods.
We never did get that investigation. But Albo and the Labor Party are happy to forget that we asked for one. The term you are looking for is “capitulation”.
301
We didn’t really need an investigation. For competent observers it was never a secret that CV19 was man made in that Wuhan lab, and that it was carelessly unleashed. Time has confirmed this. But it is a bit over the top to call it a bioweapon, because the release was surely not intentional. Were malice intended, it would not have been released in the manner we saw, and steps would have been taken in advance to better protect China from the disease.
As for the bioweapon issue. Science justifies itself. Good stuff or bad stuff, it is best that we know and understand it before our enemies discover it. Bioweapons come later.
In this case China was not alone. Others had a finger in this pie, so others share the blame. While I say science justifies itself, if this science was prohibited under US law, then US citizens are prohibited from having a finger in that pie. And it seems some did.
So I doubt that CV19 has anything to do with China’s punishment of Australia. Much more likely that Australia is being punished for arresting China’s Belt and Road program.
50
Jo, at least when the Chinese take over we will have economic Capitalists in charge. There will no BLM protests, no greenies, no terrorists, no Voice and we wont have to listen to the likes of Waleed Ali ever again-bonus!!!
61
Ted1, Not only do we still need that investigation more than ever, we absolutely can call it a bioweapon.
Whether it was deliberately or accidentally released, the WIV was working on something designed to infect human cells and harm humans. It takes semantic word games to call it by any other name.
What viruses are they working on now? Which US and Australian researchers are helping them? What punishment is there for a nation that plays carelessly (or deliberately) with biotech weapons, is that None or Nothing?
60
Why would they?
You should ask Genghis Khan that question.
40
On a reread that question looks a bit motherless there. It should be: Why would they invade?
20
Great idea B.mice!
Give a bully what they want and they will go away. One example of this successful tactic from human history would be a killer reply.
53
Refusing to SELL to China would be rank stupidity !
Do you understand the difference between giving and SELLING?
(note, we could be selling our gas for a higher price now, except for Howard’s lack of foresight.)
Australia makes a huge income from selling our minerals.
We have a very strong supply chain… If China wants to get materials from another source, they will have to develop their own supply chains.
82
Who said anything about refusing to sell?
Nauru did well as quarry. Now what is your example for your argument?
23
Selling to China”?
ENTIRE primary production streams have already been “sold”; vertically-integrated from paddock to port, to Chinese “corporations”, often with DIRECT involvement of “Australian” intermediaries. Beef, wine, fruit, processed foods, etc.
When “mysterious” Chinese-operated Cargo 747s were regularly flying from Wellcamp airport direct to Hong Hong, early in COVID times, loaded with high-value foodstuffs, it was a message to those who could see it.
See if you can work out what that message might be.
Canadian readers may also be familiar with similar activities on their turf. Strategic “purchase of Provincial and Feral pollie-muppets, right up to the Prancing P(h)ony. The US operation has focused on strategic materials , minerals, especially rare earths, exotic electronics and such.
10
Beijing is not a bully, China ihas adopted universal norms and become a first class capitalist nation.
History will show they came in peace with the primary aim being commercial enterprise, but at the same time uplift the impoverished peoples of the world. Good business acumen.
614
Explain that to our manufacturing industries when suddenly a competitor is selling goods at a tenth of your cost price, having the benefit of tariff free, slave labour goods.
42
China is the factory, we sell them raw material and they send back cheap goods. Our secondary industries are no longer competitive in some areas, yet there are always niche markets.
All tariffs are expected to be lifted in the near future and the agricultural industry is hoping for a return to the good old days. Australia is not only a quarry, but also a food bowl.
71
If we are happy to take a few extra dollars and support the slave-owners of the CCP, what could possibly go wrong?
Would the world be a better place for our children and for China’s children if we accepted a slightly lower price from a different buyer and said we prefer not to send supplies to factories that steal IP, enslave people, use products of child labor, and are owned by the same state that lied to us about deadly infectious diseases?
I mean, what kind of world do you want to leave your children?
221
They are harsh on their own people, that is true and Beijing lost face over Covid, so they want to start again.
The assertion that our biggest trading partner is going to take us by force of arms seems unlikely, but I can see VFT criss-crossing the country and Chinese market gardens as far as the eye can see.
12
The CCP don’t want to “start again” — they want to keep going on their hundred year plan.
50
Xi looks to the middle of this century and they seemed determined to become a democratic state, eventually.
“In the first stage from 2020 to 2035, we will build on the foundation created by the moderately prosperous society with a further 15 years of hard work to see that socialist modernization is basically realized,” and “In the second stage from 2035 to the middle of the 21st century, we will, building on having basically achieved modernization, work hard for a further 15 years and develop China into a great modern socialist country that is prosperous, strong, democratic, culturally advanced, harmonious and beautiful,” Xi said. (Global Times / Beijing’s mouthpiece)
Note he doesn’t mention anything about adopting Western style freedoms.
12
El Gordo — does Xi pay or coerce you to say this? Do you have any vested interests to declare?
“Xi looks to the middle of this century and seemed determined to become a democratic state, eventually.”
With an electronic social credit score and a billion cameras in his democracy everyone will vote for the Dear Leader.
20
As Jo says IP and truthful negotiation is the key here.
Remember when we used to have “handshake deals”?
Culturally it is far more important to lie to save face in some parts of the world – seems much more widespread now!
70
thanks to the LIMA Agreement-signed for and agreed to by the unions whose job it was to protect the very jobs they gave away. Thanks Gough
10
Manipulation of FTA’s to squeeze poorer nations ie, debt trap coercion and punitive actions on countries that scrutinise their foreign investments. China seems to think it can inveigle itself into the affairs of other countries. I see China as adversarial in many ways but the PLA is unweildy and China hasn’t got a strong strategic nuclear arsenal. Yet.
40
“To Serve Man”?
It’s a COOKBOOK”!!
20
Mr b’s comment was just adding perspective.
20
From a poem by Rudyard Kipling.
It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:—
“We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!”
and
“once you have paid him the Dane-Geld, you never get rid of the Dane”
20
On the point regarding inhospitable environments, see here. Is the assumption of shared systems of rationality justified?
11
China has missed the “super power” boat. It is all downhill from here.
And why would they want Australian territory? They have deserts of their own.
32
Again I say, put your “Why” question to Genghis Khan.
The reason why China has not already invaded Taiwan is that Japan and Korea would certainly be involved.
For us at the very least that would mean no more Samsung, Hyundai, cheap computers and any of those things.
21
Don’t worry.
Australia has plenty of disloyal politicians willing to give it to them.
It started with the pretend conservative Howard who gave away much of our natural gas supply to the Chicomms on a bizarre 30 year contract with no provision for inflation or market prices.
Howard also signed Australia up to the renewables madness, allowing non-dispatchable generators to connect to the grid, the only purpose of which was to destroy Western economies.
Howard was a closet globalist and Sinophile.
https://amp.smh.com.au/opinion/how-australia-blew-its-future-gas-supplies-20170928-gyqg0f.html
212
David, hanging your hat on a five year old opinion piece from the left leaning Fairfax media diminishes your conclusions somewhat.
97
Treeman, even Fairfax gets things right occasionally, and I think the article is quite fair and honest.
Regardless of that, the contract was ridiculous by any objective assessment and means the Chinese pay much less for Australian gas than Australians do, and we have a gas shortage, partly because of thst contract.
The lack of foresight of all involved was horrifying.
150
Lack of foresight in hindsight could well be described as a bit one eyed. Moreover the comparison made that the Chinese were paying about one-third the price for Australian gas that Australian consumers themselves had to pay is unfair and potentially dishonest because it compares apples with pears, ie wholesale to retail.
At no point does Tony Wright disclose actual comparative prices over time. Furthermore, it looks like the Gas Market Leaders Group basically controlled the policy process and stream of pundits from places such as The Grattan Institute and Professor Department of Economics at Monash University were all against a domestic gas reservation policy.
At least Australia has a very positive gas cashflow against which to leverage supply and better prices for us Aussies!
83
Yes David,
We measure people by what they do and my understanding of history is Howard was in the chamber for what would be thirty years of the worst attacks on a free people.
Was he a false flag for the baby boomers to follow or a just a useful idiot hoping for a title or a medal?
The Jacinta of Port Arthur?
82
All very well saying “prepare”..
How ?
5 submarines ?
A few fighter jets ?
120
Simple really b.nice , we can rely on the the decendants of the original First Nations to rush to the northern borders with technologically advanced waddies and spears to guarantee that the oldest living culture (without progress) continues its utopian lifestyle
171
The world says it’s OK for Pakistan and India to have nukes but not Australia…
Are we serious, or aren’t we?
130
Pakistan and India never signed the NPT. Australia did and it was probably the right choice.
Nuclear weapons would cost a fortune, both to build and protect from pre-emptive strike, and its not obvious how much security they would buy. It would only require half a dozen ICBM’s to take out every major city in Australia. On the other hand it would take several hundred ICBM’s to do the same damage to China. So Australia would never stand a chance in a nuclear war with China. Would Australia want to start a nuclear exchange? Look at Putin, fighting against a NATO proxy, and despite having the worlds largest nuclear arsenal, he dare not use them. So he’s fighting a conventional war anyway.
One other thing that Putin has shown is that industrial warfare is not obsolete. Industrial capacity matters. The West has exported its industrial capacity to China. Australian industry is now non-existent. We dont even build cars anymore.
And why dont we have industry in the West? Because globalist capitalists moved the factories to China to exploit cheap labour and enhance their profits. And where exactly do you find these globalists ? Where do they come from? Mostly the USA, but go to Davos to find the rest.
These are also the very same people that gave us covid, mrna vaccines, climate change cr*p and fake democracy in the USA. The very same people that want to introduce digital currencies and totalitarianism to the West.
So Australia finds itself in an alliance with the people (USA) who want to enslave us, against countries (Russia and China) trying to resist the same Western enslavement.
It is a battle for the control of the world. Unfortunately, there are no good guys. I find your China bashing to be highly superficial. It is time for you to become as sceptical in international affairs as you are in science.
Robert F Kennedy understands exactly what is going on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY89a_zXi9s
12
If criticism of a dictatorship that has forced organ harvesting, mass political prisoners, suppression of the Falun Gung, Christians, and Uighurs and a social credit scheme is “china-bashing”, I take it you approve of these practices, superficially anyway. 😉
Sure there are people in our own lands who want to enslave us (perhaps read my blog?) but that doesn’t make the enemy of my adversary “admirable”.
The US didn’t have to fire the nukes to win the cold war.
If you want Peace, prepare for War.
110
That’s why we need Hypersonic ICBMs with Nuclear warheads. So let’s do that and have Nuclear Energy for electricity at the same time.
110
I’m not sure it is possible to put a nuclear warhead on a genuine hypersonic missile with today’s technology.
A SCRAM jet is needed for those speeds and you can’t start one on the ground, it needs to be dropped from an aircraft or shot with a conventional rocket. That sounds like a ballistic missile.
Russia’s kinzal missile was shot down by a patriot missile which is ironic: The patriot battery was the kinzal’s target.
33
You can’t bribe the sheeple if you have to spend your taxes on war like things. Just imagine the cries of pain if the sit down dole was spent on missiles instead. We have indeed been dudded by our virtue signalling politicians and corporate types. That 2 billion set aside for the richest man in Australia to produce green hydrogen could build a real power station or buy a real ship to help defend his iron ore deposits. Bowens billions spent on windmills, panels and transmission could also be spent on defence and proper power. We cannot have defense security if we don’t have energy security first. A coal to oil programme driven by nuclear power could be a start but far beyond the ken of the clowns in charge and their university addled bureaucrats.
150
Lawrie:
Germany were using coal to oil about 85 years ago. We don’t need nuclear for that. **
In any case, as our deluded politicians shut down our power stations, and petrol refineries, why would we need oil anyway?
**Fischer-Tropf process using brown coal to generate diesel (and lots of other chemical things).
70
We don’t need coal to oil technology, we have over a hundred years supply of known shale oil reserves, & the technology for harvesting that is well known.
What we need is to start harvesting it, & building the means to refine it. If we don’t do that, we had better start building coal fueled steam trains. If the stuff hits the fan we won’t have the diesel to drive our current trains or trucks, & we will be very much in need of transport.
50
I was not aware of the extent of our oil deposits and would be interested in further discussion. In the Army I visited a lone well East of Derby that held it’s product in a 5000 gallon tank; hardly a big field. I also note that the Bass Strait wells are nearly finished. What am I missing and I don’t mean to be rude. During WW2 there was a coal to oil plant near Muswellbrook that is now part of the huge Bengalla coal mine. I agree with Graeme that nuclear power is not needed to extract oil from coal but we do have those who want less CO2.
The bottom line is that very few, it would seem General Molan was one, understand that we are a small population sitting on very vast resources without realising the attractiveness of that resource to a potentially belligerent resource poor nation. We are naive to think that so long as we trade we are safe. Russia and Germany traded right up to June 1941. We traded with Japan right up to December 1941.
30
I’m sorry…
You cannot hope to defend anything unless you have a surplus of energy, food and water, to deploy in that defense.
Our country is spending $368 billion for a coupla submarines (sometime in 2040) and it does not cut the mustard.
Especially since Bowen reckons we could have 80 small scale nuclear power plants across the country for just $400 billion
https://twitter.com/i/status/1657194732404248577
Whereas Westinghouse reckons we could have those same small scale nuclear power plants for just $80 Billion.
https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/us-firm-unveils-game-changing-small-nuclear-reactor.
If we are truly serious about defending ourselves – maybe we should start accumulating the surpluses we will need to mount that defense…
260
Maybe President Joe Fraud isn’t the only western politician on the CCP $$$$ millions money train! After all we’ve had a certain ALP politician found to have been on that train & we currently have another that undoubtedly has sympathies & a desire to invite the CCP along.
Not to mention very secretive visits to his masters! You’ll find there are certainly more of them. They cannot function as a singularity!!
191
i dont think its just ALP politicians-seems to me part of the reason we are in a mess is too many people still put a tick next to the LNP in the voting booth for NO OTHER REASONS than they are not labour or they are less worse than Labour. I would wager at this point 151 independents could do a better job than the current LIBLAB Uniparty
20
You are so right debunker. Energy security is vital if we are to have national security. No wonder the Chinese want us to follow Bowen’s idiocy because it leaves us completely naked. Cut off our fuel supply and not only do we lose transport but we lose agriculture. We become a hungry cold nation without lights just ripe for the picking.
100
We are nothing but a stockpile of minerals and energy waiting for a corporate takeover.
If China decided to attack Australia it’d be all over before any allies arrived.
What a stupid country we are. Sending all our resources overseas while refusing to use them to our own advantage.
Only Australia would conclude that coal emissions are bad if we produce them but ok if others produce them. Or that uranium is too dangerous for us to use and dispose of, but safe for others.
We are not smart enough to help ourselves let alone defend ourselves against smarter countries.
390
We are more like fasting spectators watching corporatists feast at our table.
160
You can see why we are called ‘The Lucky country’, we have everything going for us except for the parade of numbnuts that seek to govern us, nothing clever or lucky there.
230
Jo you have nailed the reason Don Farrell returned without trade concessions from his recent China trip.
Why give him anything when the plan is to take the flaming lot?
131
All trade tariffs should be lifted soon, Farrell got his timing wrong.
15
Resources we have plenty, but brains and common sense not so much.
But don’t worry I’m sure the Biden donkey will send his electric tanks to fight China if they ever invade.
What could possibly go wrong?
141
Waiting for him to deploy his electric tanks against Russia. 😉
Wondering where the next load of electricity will come from. !
71
Do you guys have any currant bushes down there?
30
Great Britain taught us a lesson we should never forget, we trusted they would be there to help us in our hour of need which was Singapore, we were told ‘help yourself, we’ve got our hands full’, or something to that effect.
We should apply that lesson to the USA.
220
At some point around 1940, I forget the precise date, the British cabinet asked the Australian government what it would say to a suggestion of abandoning Singapore. The response in short was “hell, no!” I’ve not seen this elsewhere (not my period of interest) but it is in the papers (held by Flinders University) of Dr. Evatt, external affairs minister at the time, which I have read.
Evatt’s papers, incidentally, take only take a couple of hours to read, there are so few of them, well and truly weeded by his widow—or so the story goes.
It must be recalled, further, that during the ‘Thirties the ALP, possibly Australia generally, was uninterested in defence, except to shrink it.
80
Leabrae:
I would doubt that claim. The British Government thought that Singapore was impregnable.
They didn’t really that the ships they sent were vulnerable to aircraft, that bombers (must of which were obsolete at then) would win the war, and I would also point out that the guns in Singapore were pointed to right way except that some bureaucrat cancelled the contract for HE shells.
Re the Colditz story when the Germans thought the prisoners were mad about the Fall of Singapore when they were cheering the fellow prisoner who had predicted Singapore to fall for weeks.
It took the Scharnhorst & Gneisenau to sail up the channel before there was a shakeup. (Alternately I don’t know about the claim about the armaments supply who transported the necessary torpedos to a RAF base and arrived after the German ships were back at base, and was greeted by a RAF officer with “here they are, and in the Same War?”)
40
Please read the whole comment. I read the (surviving) Evatt Papers some tennish years ago. The question came to Evatt from the High Commissioner and to him Evatt replied. I cannot speak of other sources as my reading of Evatt’s Papers (at, I repeat, Flinders University) was at the request of someone else not in South Australia. I suppose it is possible that the question regarding Singapore came from a member of the British cabinet without authority but assuming it for his own purposes. Nonetheless, it is in Evatt’s Papers.
50
England was under attack, the US is immune from that predicament.
But your point is valid, we must be self sufficient enough to be able to make any attack painful or at lest withstand such attack until the cavalry arrives.
40
Land, mines, farms … the Chinese certainly want to control these assets. All of the assets that the Aus left don’t value, actually, while the population is of little value to China. Statement of the bleeding obvious, of course.
Yet the squawks of Aus unease we hear seem always predicated on some fantasised Chinese military thrust. Not needed; Pacific Island Chinese naval bases to protect Chinese shipping is all that is required. The Chinese way is to purchase the wanted assets. I suggest an objective audit of the degree of Chinese ownership ( so far) of Aus mines, farms and real estate should actually be published in the Daily Telegraph or similar. Such genuinely objective and comprehensive audits exist (several analytical mining magazines already detail the mining sector) but will NOT be published in popular outlets. Ask yourself why.
Nor will such ownership sales cease. The Aus population prefers to play real estate rather than SX investment, which is why the Aus capital market is so thin. Constant supply of offshore capital is needed to sustain that. From my current hard experience, the only competition here is between Chinese and Indonesian purchasing capital. The sheer volume of cash behind these competitors suggests the Chinese will win that – just give or take 20 years.
120
About the only things we seem good at is selling each other overpriced real estate and making half reasonable coffees.
80
Ianl:
The Chinese think that the Climate Scam is nonsense, and that shortly we will have a downtown is the World Climate. They know what happened then in China (large times) and want a large flat land closer to the Equator where, with some development, would supply food. They are also looking to Africa as well, but the locals there are eating most of what they produce.
40
I cant work out why they dont own pretty much everything that is important already. I suspect they dont need to invade as they already own or can quickly aquire anything they want. They have the ports, airstrips in central Australia, mines, railways, power stations, power grids, Murry Darling water, roads,smart city tech (Darwin and other cities), have their own police stations here already, etc etc etc and own the politicians to get off the citizens anything the CCP want taken from us.
160
How many Chinese citizens are in Australia today?
Who needs an army or a navy?
I suggest that a study of our dairy market might improve people’s understanding.
I ask, when Coles and Woolworths were selling milk below cost, who was supplying the milk that set the price?
Could that have been Australian or NZ dairies owned by China?
Did this depressed market enable China to purchase more infrastructure in Oz and/or NZ at distressed prices?
50
That has me thinking. The sheep market went through the roof after the drought ended. Now it has tanked to about 2015 levels, and that is after we all went in to debt to buy back sheep. China and its buying, or lack thereof, is said to be the reason why the price went down fast. Maybe they are after our farms and red meat sector now they own the dairy farms.
20
I am a farmer and I contemplated what would it be like if (when) the nominally Auzzie (CCP owned ) politicians took the mask off and let it show who is (probably) in control. And I thought it didnt look much different. Everything that goes off this place goes to the Chinese as does most produce from rural Australia. Prices of Ag commodities are largely controlled by CCP demand. It wouldnt even pay to put chinese in control of the ag sector. Aussies farm vast areas of country with tiny handful of people who notoriously work too long hours without breaks and often make a loss doing it. Farmers only foolishly think farming is worth doing because of the theoretical idea the balance sheet is getting bigger while farmers have ever growing mortgages (money probably borrowed off CCP). And we buy our inputs off the CCP as well, so on balance Auzzie farmers might also be paying them to take our agricultural produce.
130
The only difference would be that those in charge would actually want you to succeed in your endeavours.
80
Yes, I have thought that farming might be easier with the CCP openly in charge. Not so many stupid laws and impediments to production.
90
Years ago I can remember people in the Wool industry talking about the attractiveness of China as a market. We’re talking the 1980’s, long before the opening up of that country. Wool industry spokespeople saying things like ” if we could get every Chinese person to wear one pair of Aussie wool socks, the market price would be incredible”. Ever since, this has been the modus operandi of nearly every ag export market. It’s crazy that we have hooked ourselves up to just one major customer for all our primary production and mining exports. If anything we should be befriending India and the likes of Asian countries much more. But, like gas exports, it’s all been too rather easy for our industries. Here’s your price, we’ll take x millions tonnes, take it or leave it say the Chinese. Which means our industry representatives are almost giving away our exports to China.
90
Jane, one slight benefit to Au farmers might be that we are heading into weird Grand Solar Minimum climate where Northern China’s grain region will endure severe losses. A smart Au would be building huge concrete storage silos to take advantage of the world decline in production. Our domestic market is tiny but a 10% decline in China’s production would be a serious problem for the CCP. Au probably needs to put ag exporters on a different taxation regime.
40
A similar theme recently on zerohedge
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/could-us-lose-australia
40
Good catch, I grabbed this parody from that article.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgspkxfkS4k
20
Apart from paranoia, is there any evidence that China wants to invade Australia? China has been doing business with Africa for many, many decades, mining all sorts of resources. China has sufficient military capability to steal those resources, but has never once even suggested that it would rather fight a war to steal than do business: that is the American way. The problem in the west is that it simply does not understand China, it is so busy being paranoid that it will defeat itself and will end up asking for help from China. A better response would be for Australia to make China its first non-white friend. Russia has done it, surely Australia could also do it if it were to ever break free of the USA. Accept China as the new boss and adjust to the changing world in a way that benefits Australia.
210
“Accept China as the new boss” — aspnaz, you may sell out for a life of lies, deceit, censorship, Social Credits, slavery and corruption. I’m not.
We become like “our friends”. If China uses its profits and industrial power to buy off our land, our farms, our media, and our politicians, it’s just a matter of time before it buys our culture and chooses our lifestyle for us.
Or we could stand up for the lifestyle and values all those young men died protecting.
141
The lifestyle and values on display during the Covid plandemic? The lies, deceit, censorship and corruption? I grant you that Australia is not directly involved in “Social Credits and slavery”, but you have seen the pictures of black kids in the Cobalt mines. You have heard of the likes of Nike and Apple using child labour. So which Australia are we talking about, the one that hasn’t done anything for its traditional principles in a very long time, including Assange, or the one where everyone’s a hero like in Crocodile Dundee? Of course, you could argue that there is a third, the one pursuing the false principles of woke/cultural marxism: is this USA abomination the same as “buys our culture and choses our lifestyle”?
The west is in decline, the winners will be the ones who move with the times and take a long hard look at what the future holds and make what they can make of it. It won’t be ideal, nothing ever is, but denying reality is worse. At least Australia has had the good sense to trade resources with China, rather than keep their coal in the ground in order to virtue signal to the ESG/CC crowd. Shame that domestic energy and resource policy is not equally as rational.
62
aspnaz, attempts at false equivalence is exactly what the Fifty Cent Army is trained to do. But every dark aspect of the pandemic in the West was worse in China.
“It won’t be ideal”? That’s how you describe a governance system with internment camps for political and religious enemies whose blood type determines when they will be killed to sell their kidneys? That’s what you call an industrial social credit system that already punishes “Wrongthink” by slowing their internet connection, and adding flight, train and hotel bans. A system that bought off Apple and sabotages Apps that help protestors to gather?
If the CCP was paying commentators, purely hypothetically of course, they would attack the West, pretend China was the “no worse”, call China “the winner” and insist we must keep selling our coal and iron ore to China.
My question to you, do you want to live in a country with slavery or not?
40
Hang on Jo-false equivalence?? Seriously, the points re slavery excepted-where are we THAT much better than China? Law and order-nope. Corruption-please, our political/judicial system has only the appearance of fairness but we have a two tiered law system that is corrupt and the Higgins case proves there is no innocence till proven guilty in this country any longer. Freedom from government interference and the right to protest-only if you follow the government narrative (dont we accuse China of that). We have State and Federal Governments that from the outside looking in are DELIBERATELY-castrating the best things going for this country in the name of the climate cult. I’ve been a super proud aussie for nearly 54 years (make that 50-the scamdemic made me a lot less proud) but defending this country against all comers is getting harder. I have been travelling to China for business for the last 15 years and i feel safer walking the streets at night there alone than i do here. In fact the lack of oversight and regulation is refreshing there and basically. you can do what ever you like as long as you dont criticize the government openly and publicly and as long as you are aware you OWN the results of your actions-personal accountability. Before getting on any high horse i remind you-Victoria, pregnant women dragged from cars and their homes, disabled people hit by police cars, old women pepper sprayed and smashed to the ground etc. The Chinese are worse than us only by degrees-they are where we are going to be in the future unless we start fighting back now instead of giving up everything incrementally and thinking we are better than them. The “pandemic” proved how corrupt this country is.
31
The Chinese are worse than us only by degrees.
It’s the ultimate nihilist non-argument. We are all dead in the end. Does it matter if you live 60 years or 90? Does it matter if there are thousands in jails awaiting their blood type number to come up or only a few hundred? Do numbers matter at all — maybe they do if your own 1:0 number = jail:freedom.
1 = 1,000, up = down, freedom = slavery.
Just because you can name Western travesties (which I write a whole blog on BTW, what do you do?) doesn’t make bondage to the CCP even remotely the same as our current situation.
20
I am a retired white man living in Hong Kong, I have a very happy and fullfilling life over here. Hong Kong is not China, but I have lived in China and Taiwan in the past, so I have some experience of what I talk. I agree that the social credit system is a bad thing, no doubt about it, as is the banning of certain words and discussions on social media, as is automatic facial recognition and fines if a camera sees you jay walking etc. Those systems are all about protecting the ruling class from the plebs. Other than that, China is a fantastic country containing pleasant, friendly people. Taiwan also has its problems, the main one being that the kids have been persuaded to see everything USA as cool and good, as well as the leadership spending half the GDP on US weapons. The only weird thing about Taiwan (especially in the countryside) is that strangers will come up to you in the street and welcome you to Taiwan, simply because they can see you are a foreigner: you get used to it.
What can Australia do to change your situation? The west decided we would buy “Made in China” cheap goods, we all wanted the low paid workers in China to earn very little so that we could buy our toys on the cheap. The Chinese used our greed to better themselves and now it is payback time and there is nothing you can do about changing the past. You have to look forward. You make your bed and now you are refusing to lie in it, that is not a good way to move forward.
It amazes me how ignorant the west is of China, but the west has never accepted non-white peoples as equals and this is now a big mental problem for many western whites: not being in the top slot.
31
aspnaz,
“China is a fantastic country containing pleasant, friendly people.”
Not so fantastic maybe if you don’t love the CCP. The Sino welcoming committee for free speech includes ransacking newspaper offices with sledgehammers and jailing newspaper editors that criticize the CCP.
Was Hong Kong a better freer place to live under British rule, or do you prefer the situation now where being a minion of the CCP is the only way to live?
China exploited our greed — absolutely. That’s exactly what I said. Who is the “you” you are referring too?
My question to you, do you want to live in a country with slavery or not?
And you have answered that — “Yes”.
20
Slavery? I do carpentry (super cheap good wood from taobao), I do home brew (super cheap ingredients from taobao), I do windsurfing (no cheap anything from taobao) and I only know a few people imprissoned (for a few weeks) in Covid quarantine. I see no slavery, my life here is fine. I see you paying people to do child labour. I see you paying for the Apple suicide nets: you is Australia and the rest of the west. China has moved more people out of poverty – you know, so they can afford the sort of stuff that you have – than any other western country in the past century, or even ever. But sure, they are all bad people because they do not take on the western political system? Get back to me when the west – with all its money – moves an equivalent number of people out of poverty, and not by handing out cash, but by creating an environment where people can do well for themselves.
But, thanks for this conversation, it confirms my belief that the west is headed for the dustbin. In fact, if you refuse to sell resources to the bad guys, you may just force China to invade you simply to look after their own people …. just kidding, they have Russia to supply them with most of what they need.
32
Of course you “see no slavery” in Xinjiang. The CCP forbids seeing it.
And this here shows the big fear of the CCP. The rest of the world stops trading…
“…if you refuse to sell resources to the bad guys, you may just force China to invade you “
Bravo, China the bully. Sell to us or we invade you! It’s exactly this kind of arrogance that drove Australians once favourable sentiment towards China off a cliff…
So is Australia a sovereign nation in your eyes or just a vassal state already?
10
China will take Australia, and the method of takeover will be a combination of political and physical. If you look at the number of Chinese people already living here and their rate of growth through fast tracked immigration, and you consider the % of these people with Chinese CCP allegiance, then you start to realise our self created problem. Those with Chinese allegiance are already influencing election outcomes and foreign policy. Governments of the future will be forced to cozy up to China in order to win government and that means distancing ourselves from the USA and moving away from democracy and down the road of communism. Once China seeks a complete takeover then they will already have a huge army of supporters living here and the job will be made easier. The only question people should ask themselves is what happens to non-Chinese people once the takeover starts.
101
I think the hardworking and intelligent folk will be ok. The hilarious thing is that the ‘watermelon’, alphabet, welfare mob will find life a whole lot different.
100
Nice idea, but sadly history doesn’t agree- Communist countries become democracies as the middle class emerges, not the other way around. Look at Russia, where it started, and all the ex-USSR countries now. Democracies become tyrannies as they mature and the top 1% emerge, look at any Western country.
As for what happens for the peasants? Nothing, nothing at all, all Govts need peasants and as countless wars have shown, only rulers go to war, the peasants have one set of rulers changed for another and life goes on as usual.
If the Chinese Govt was a cruel as people say on here, they wouldn’t bother to replace any peasantry in a conquered country with their own, they would care for neither.
62
Exactly. The Russian revolution was a non-event for the peasantry. They hardly noticed it.
All that happened for them was they changed their bosses.
50
Brings this to mind –
THE AG SURVIVAL TEST
Will you be able to survive in agriculture? Here is a test designed to help you evaluate your chances. Your answers will determine whether you are financially and psychologically fit to continue. Please circle either A) or B).
1. My present financial portfolio includes:
– A) over one million in land and livestock free and clear
– B) a ten year old Ford 3/4 ton, 6 horses worth 32 cents a pound and a wife with a job.
2. Most of my ready cash is in:
– A) interest bearing checking accounts
– B) a Copenhagen lid on the bedroom dresser.
3. My banker calls me:
– A) “Mister”
– B) every two hours
4. My idea of a sound financial investment is:
– A) undeveloped pasture in downtown Dallas
– B) a racing greyhound
5. My chances of getting a loan are:
– A) sure as the sun rises
– B) as good as Slim Whitman becoming Pope (Pope Slim I)
6. The best cattle deal I ever made was:
– A) sold 3,000 head of 28 cent Corrientes for 56 cents three months later
– B) stole a truckload of feeder calves and lost $30 a head
7. I started ranching because:
– A) I love the land and inherited $5 million
-B) my daddy chained me to a tractor when I was 6 years old
8. My long term economic plans include:
– A) expansion and increased productivity
– B) winning the jackpot team roping next Friday
9. I intend to ranch and farm as long as I can:
– A) make money
– B) borrow money
10. The reason I ranch and farm today is:
– A) I find it a fascinating and lucrative profession
– B) I’m in too deep to quit
RESULTS: If you circled all A’s, you are an optimistic management type with oil on your property. It is highly likely you will survive and invest in satellite technology.
If you circled all B’s, you are presently engaged in modern marginal agricultural practices. You will be here tomorrow and the next day, and the next, and the next. Because somebody will always have to be there to do the work.
Baxter Black, “Coyote Cowboy Poetry”
40
UUuummmm, dont know if you noticed but I dont think we have a democracy here any longer. We dont have a constitutional govt because a referendum is needed to change the constitution and a signature of the monarch, as we (should) all know, and there was not one for the document the pollies use now. Also the voting is either so gerimandered to be meaningless, or preferential voting so played with to be unverifiable, or voting played with (as in ballots not available in country seats in Vic) or most likely all of the above. Also how do pollies of the uniparty get preselected these days. I have no idea but they seem to come from nowhere.
121
JW Howard was shown the door by Chinese voters in his electorate in 2007.
20
And what was the Victorian Dictator, Dan of Vicdanistan doing in China recently? He allowed no media to go with him even though they give him their full support and never ask him difficult questions. What was he giving away?
142
In Vicdanistan in 2019, we had Chinese flags flying over a police station.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7531771/Outrage-Chinese-flag-flown-Box-Hill-police-station-honour-countrys-National-Day.html
https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/its-a-police-station-honouring-a-police-state-outrage-as-melbourne-cop-shop-raises-chinese-communist-flag/news-story/7d59fc8558a59eec0693c26fb9dbf31c
https://7news.com.au/politics/law-and-order/victoria-police-lambasted-for-raising-chinese-flag-c-483203
101
Our politicians are asleep at the wheel and/or don’t care.
SEE LINK FOR REST
50
I wish there was a way to find all my comments on Jo’s blog, because this is precisely what I’ve been saying for years. Australia is in China’s sights for a number of reasons, our natural resources etc being just one. Another is the symbolic position we occupy, along with NZ, of being a lone western outpost in what the Chinese increasingly see as ‘their’ territory.
Like Ukraine, it’s easy to imagine that Australia could become a remote battleground where America and the CCP could slug it out without doing any damage to their own land.
120
Over the years, there have been many attempts by disloyal/traitorous politicians to call Australia an “Asian” country, not identifying us as a uniquely Western country.
Keating strongly pushed an Asian rather than Western identity for Australia. See http://www.paulkeating.net.au/shop/item/australia-and-asia-knowing-who-we-are—7-april-1992
61
One continent cannot be part of another continent.
20
…and yet Australia has one of the most expensive energy costs in the world.
Strange, eh?
70
If you want to defend Australia then you must arm every Aussie from primary school age on. Make shooting the national sport, the concealed carry of guns a normal and accepted practice, and have everyone go through military training. Make assault rifles a tool for everyone with one behind every back door. Wars are won because 90% of the population never took part, and defeating an enemy army is of no use if you cannot hold the territory due to the expense from resistance fighters. As for crime, think Switzerland and Finland, both heavily armed, not the disfunctional Americans.
Why do you think the USA was kicked out of Viet Nam and Afghanistan? All that high-tech expensive weaponry proved useless.
As for Farrell, why hasn’t the little fkwit been fired already. He is Minister or Trade and failed completely in his job which is to make trade happen. Will he get fired? Lets see what happens and you will see the real face of politics.
91
Do you remember the Ukrainian brewery marking its beer bottles with the instructions on making Molotov cocktails with them?
I was young but still remember Hungarians using them to great effect during their uprising. Tanks are very vulnerable in an urban setting.
60
1n that fracas, the Hungarians eventually LOST, however.
In today’s street battle scenarios, glass bottles of petrol / latex mix are NO match for precision targeted Thermobarics.”Collateral Damage”? “They had it coming”.
1956? Does anybody else know what the Soviets cooked up in Aden to distract attention from Hungary?
When the Czechs tried to emulate the same thing in 1968, guess what else was going on in the world.
Cut to “current times”; delete “Bear”, insert “Dragon”.
11
KP, Decentralisation of the military has many benefits though I’m not certain your idea of arming everyone is sound. We’ve bred a nation of youths grafted to smart phones that are smarter than themselves. I was raised in a military grammar school and had an air rifle in a case by my bed at boarding school but in my observations, to-day’s young do not have that responsible citizen mentality. In 1940 Japanese Military said that invading Australia was frought with problems, one being that many Aussie blokes had rifles and knew how to use them. We’re generations away from that to-day and warfare could be conducted via trade and satellite based missiles or lazers. One would also have to assume that microbe sterilisation exists.
20
In a couple of decades or so, whether our economic and foreign policy aligns with China’s interests or with India’s will be decided by the votes of Chinese and Indian immigrants in a few marginal seats in the big cities. Still, at least we didn’t offend our putrid elites by voting for Pauline Hanson.
70
Were do we start?
Firstly china would rather trade with us than invade us, it’s not in thier nature to steal resources like the USA, granted we will need DJT to negotiate any trade deals because our current crop of oollies are too stupid.
Secondly if China did invade we would run out of ammo by day 3, half the JSF’s we got were broken on arrival and just sit in hangars gathering dust.
Thirdly, our navy is inadequate
China have hypersonic that can circumnavigate the globe above MACH 7 so they could take out critical infrastructure and we would not see them coming.
Our defence force is in a shambles, we don’t have the people to do the job as everyone is leaving in droves, the much hated defence APS are paid very poorly so are also leaving.
But as I said china would rather trade with us so don’t get ducked in by the war hawk propaganda.
In other news Syria has been accepted back into the Arab League which now means the invading US military now must leave….not the Chinese but the USA, understand who the terrorists are now?
73
China vis a vis Australia
China today is the ultimate trading nation, not imperial nation. Why fight over what you can buy cheaper and with much less trouble?
As long as Australia sells China the material resources it wants, all will be well for both. Win, win.
If Australia misguidedly blocks trade with China, either because of the direct stupidity of Australia’s politicians, or because, as part of a decaying western alliance, Australia, to its detriment, sucks American d*** (whoops: …is overly deferential to the US) then Australia will lose. Certainly economically, and possibly politically and militarily as well.
From a military standpoint, Australia on its own could not conceivably arm heavily enough to stop China by force of arms. Even if Australia foolishly crippled its economy in the attempt.
As for alliances (and, yes, I’m talking about with the US) that is a frail reed on which to lean. And getting frailer by the day.
I live in Canada and face an even worse situation militarily. Canada is sandwiched between the two strongest military powers on the planet, Russia and the US. Even if Canada quintupled its military budget it would only mean lasting ten minutes rather than two minutes in a confrontation with either!
Accordingly, Canada has chosen to become the ultimate economic colony of the US, forgoing any hint of sovereignty on substantive matters. (The US hegemon graciously still allows us to decide parking issues on our own.)
Canada maintains a token military, not for its own protection (which would be impossible) but as a tributary payment to the hegemon (i.e., as part of NATO). Canada does not need a conventional military (army, navy, air force) but a very powerful Coast Guard would be desirable to assert sovereignty over its northern islands and the waterways between them, rather than have those waterways become “international waters” as part of a major northern sea route.
20
China cannot be treated as a benign trading partner. You only have to look at how they treat their own citizens, and even worse their vassals, to understand what kind of people are in charge. On that basis alone, putting their stated expansionist ambitions to one side for the moment, it would be extreme folly NOT to hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
But the problem goes even deeper. I first did business with the Chinese back in 2000 and concluded several large contracts with Chinese entities over the following six years. In the course of this I visited China several times and dealt with people on all walks of life from shopkeepers to executives and others of undeclared authority. I met with a scary number of individuals who were very nationalistic, prejudiced against the West and entirely convinced of China’s coming supremacy. I imagined that was what Germany would have felt like in the run up to Nazification.
It is this experience that leads me to treat China with respect, but also suspicion. Above all else, I came away never EVER wanting to be at their mercy.
30
I’m sure the Chicomms will be terrified of Australia’s battery operated Bushmaster infantry vehicles.
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/defence/land/army-unveils-electric-bushmaster
60
I served in Armour starting with White scout cars and Ferrets. Then we got M113s, the best use of aluminium ever with a reliable V6 GM diesel. Batteries in combat are ridiculous and the clowns that want to introduce them have never served in an armoured box that is so attractive to anyone with a RPG. I suppose they would guarantee an instant release from this valley of tears. No suffering and no need for a Medivac.
30
The extent of Chicomm influence, influencers and supporters is such that in any forum, including this one, you’ll find their strong voluntary and/or paid supporters. And of course, there almost isn’t a politician they don’t own either.
60
I have personal experience of this. I was once a member of a photography forum. I can’t recall the topic or thread, but this subject came up in the ‘Off Topic’ section. I was, in my opinion, only mildly critical of China, yet I was at once assaulted by several members in a most disproportionate and aggressive way. After a little to and fro, always polite, I was suddenly hit with a temporary ban and warned by the mods that such criticism wouldn’t be tolerated. I immediately cancelled my membership.
The forum was supposedly run out of America.
40
Pardon the language, but in my mind we are already China’s bitch. And everything being done by both major parties in this country, and a good deal of our population, ensures we will be sitting in the cuck chair watching China have its way with us for decades to come. What China have done is follow Sun Tzu’s teaching to the letter
“To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.…”
60
And:
50
There is no mistake in what is being done to Australia.
80
There is no way China can invade Australia militarily, they just can’t do it.
They may have a million man army but they don’t have a blue water navy to ship them. Their carriers are a joke, only the last has a catapult and they say it is electro-magnetic like that on the Ford but it is conventionally powered. Where do they get all that electric power on demand?
42
How do you continually come up with this gibberish harahan?
51
General Crakar, tell me how they could do it?
One way would be land near Darwin but that would involve passing through the Indonesian Archipelago. The Indonesians wouldn’t like that. Once landed they would need to capture Darwin within days to get resupplied. They then have a long crossing of the continent harassed by F 18s and F 35s from forward bases we have already constructed.
Plan B would involve passing north of PNG through the Coral Sea. [Remember April ’42?] By the time they got there they would be sitting ducks for the US carrier task force on station in these waters. It would then have to pass south of the GBR so the landing and come ashore near Rocky. That is a long perilous trip for both the invasion force and resupply convoys. Even our Collins class subs could worry them during that trip.
Gibberish? tell me where I’m wrong or apologise.
BTW The Nimitz and Ford class carriers are twice the DWT of the Bismarck and Yamato.
42
General crakar…..what an idiot you are. China is cutting trade deals with a majority of our northern neighbours whilst we sit at the feet of uncle Sam and sabre rattle you fool.
In regards to your battle plan the f18 is an antique and retired the F35 whilst a good jet is broken more times than serviceable.
Chinese navy is far superior than ours but not as good as USA. So your plan is to rely on the USA for help,hope is not a strategy hanrahan
30
The F 18A is retired and they will likely end up in Ukraine. The Super Hornet is still a good 4th gen fighter.
You can’t have it both ways, you can’t say a 4th gen fighter is outdated but the 5 th gen is so bad it can’t fly. Which is it?
BTW The F 35 is the ONLY 5 th gen fighter in squadron service. I accept that it isn’t what we thought we were buying but there is nothing else like it in the air.
20
Have you ever stood next to a hornet and a growler? Two different aircraft, hornet is retired growler is not, adain you no nothing of which you speak IE an Idiot
11
Buying the jsf is like buying a Mercedes but we apply a maintenance regime for an IKEA. We can’t get them in the air and if we do we can’t keep them there. The maintenance required is extraordinary.
A heap of them came with corrosion in the fuselage so they sit in a hangar never flown.
So in short you need a new strategy
21
You can’t make a statement like that without support. A search found nothing.
10
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-08/f35-program-design-flaws-part-shortages-costs-opinions-divided/100431664
10
I must have missed the bit where it said some have never flown because of corrosion.
10
This was in 2019
But reports states that corrosion was evident in Arizona since 2017.
Not a good look?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-07/williamtown-joint-strike-fighters-susceptible-to-corrosion/11085220
30
You are an IDIOT hanrahan, you think all news is listed on Google?
Enough you are too stupid to talk to.
13
Come on children, stop squabbling.
10
Hanrahan at 1. Capacitors. Fire then recharge. You can’t store electricity for instant use any other way. Batteries take a while to charge and to discharge but an electric catapult needs instantaneous power. It must be an engineering nightmare to design a system that has a constant or near constant generation but a periodic use of electricity in vast amounts. The Ford has an extra nuclear reactor just for the catapults. Now they are experimenting with lasers to engage incoming hypersonic missiles and swarms of suicide drones. Such lasers, and there would be many to defend a carrier, need at least one MW to fire them up enough to melt through a missile casing capable of surviving an outer heat of 1700 degrees Celsius.
30
If you hang around some certain suburbs in Melbourne (eg Box Hill) that Chinese invasion has already taken place. As an example, I went to a large wholesale fruit and vege outlet in outer Eastern Melbourne yesterday and the majority appeared to be Chinese speaking buyers. Whole families were present including grandma and grandpa on sticks. It’s why Daniel Andrews befriends China and made his most recent secret trip there. It was to gain support for the Labor Party in a local federal bi-election. Remember the color of the Labor Party is red and so is China. It’s a no- brainer for that side of politics to harvest Chinese immigrant votes. A lot of these immigrants still bear a lot of allegiance to the old country as well, which is quite natural for any recent immigrant, but the Chinese are fierce supporters. Ask Australian swimmer Mack Horton. Horton, 23, refused to join China’s Sun, 27, on the podium after the 400m freestyle final at the 2019 Fina World Aquatics Championships in South Korea, due to suspicions of doping. He copped an incredible backlash from local Chinese over that incident with his parents house vandalised. It’s a slow invasion, taking the country house by house, street by street, suburb by suburb, farm by farm and our local politicians are just useful idiots.
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” It’s a slow invasion, taking the country house by house, street by street, suburb by suburb, farm by farm and our local politicians are just useful idiots.”
Well, that’s great! Better than tanks coming ashore somewhere Hanrahan hasn’t thought of! All we have to do is convince the local Chinese that they should support the whites in Australia rather than the Chinese back home. Show them a better life here that they will be keen to stay with rather than get returned to the country they left.. In the end its no different to the Italians, the Greeks, the Lebanese, the Indians… all those who came here and stayed.
Yeah right! Coming from the people who started the Opium Wars with China, we will have to try harder, and while our Anti-China propaganda is so blatantly obvious here, the Chinese have been taught a totally different view of the world. D’you reckon our politicians are up to it? Will a smoke ceremony and a Welcome song cut it? Will our Govt propaganda change from “China is invaded the South China Sea” to “Invite the local Chinese to your next barbie”?
After all, its a cultural difference more than a racial difference, and we are always taught that our culture is the best in the world.. Finding the truth from our politicians should be most interesting!
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With the U.S. having forced Russia into closer alliance with China, China now has an equally large supplier of raw materials (with much greater amounts of immediately useful oil and gas)sharing a land border with them.
Why have a source of resources (Australia) which is vulnerable to interdiction by U.S. Navy forces, when you can simply pipe or train your mega-tonnes over land, far from any U.S. intervention?
The basic premise here is sound.. We NEED a strong navy to ensure trade, but the enemy is not the CCP. The enemy is the one who relentlessly pursues a carbon tax, forces useless vaccines, lauds the “woke”, says men are women and is in the process of throwing NATO under the Russian bus.
The U.S. “Deep State” and its puppet head FJB.
Of course our pollies go hat in hand to China, when we should be cultivating the much larger future market, India.
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“Why have a source of resources (Australia) which is vulnerable to interdiction by U.S. Navy forces, when you can simply pipe or train your mega-tonnes over land, far from any U.S. intervention?”
Because Australia presents a much easier morsel to swallow – and keep down – than Russia. Australia is as weak as a kitten, both militarily and politically. The western media have relentlessly mocked Russian military actions in Ukraine, but how do you think a war between Russia and Australia would go? It would be laughable. Also, Russians have proven to be fierce defenders of their own territory, defeating Napoleon and Hitler.
Our citizens generally are not armed and significant numbers of immigrants from China would support a Chinese invasion – whether they want to or not. For sure, if I was a Chinese immigrant, I wouldn’t rely on the Australian government to protect me should a Chinese invasion – on any scale – occur. If China armed just 10,000 ‘Australian’ Chinese and appointed them as our overlords, what could we do?
Nah, Australia would fold within days and our western allies would let it happen so as to husband their own resources for any escalation.
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Hong Kong could have moved to Australia but Keating wouldn’t have it, as they wouldn’t have voted Labor.
Wouldn’t that have been interesting!
We’re now a disarmed population for all practical purposes, and being swamped with that global tidal wave of fear, obedience, wokeism, political correctness, and wide ranging ignorance of history and reality.
Do we even have the ability to fight an invasion?
You can’t even buy a slingshot in nanny-world Oz.
If Yellowstone blows, Australia has promised to take in up to 10 million Americans.
Put them where? Who knows, but it’s a political promise based on zero knowledge and just “it’ll never happen” thinking. Pollies won’t save you. They’ve shown that over and over.
Given the manifesting geopolitical realignment, we’d be better off dumping the ANZUS alliance and backing the winners in this game, but that’ll never happen.
You either make your own future by standing up for it, or others will make your future for you.
It’s not looking good.
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“If Yellowstone blows, Australia has promised to take in up to 10 million Americans.”
They had better bring their own tent.
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Given the prevailing winds (blowing east), the change in population culture might not be an improvement in the opinions of some?
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Had there not been a coup d’état against President Trump, the world would not be in this mess.
It’s remarkable the enormous extent of damage the White House resident has done to both the US and the world in general in just a little over two years.
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The current regime is really Obama’s third term and the fulfilment of his dream to destroy the United States.
https://youtu.be/JI2Xtqd4Mts
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Very interesting. Normally quite unified, this forum seems splintered on the topic of China. Shows the level of confusion on defense and international alliances. And that’s what it is, a very sticky situation. No option looks promising. Snookered.
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My golden rule is: conquer and defend what you have conquered. The problem with Australia has always been its defense. Henry Parkes was very aware of that and kept China at bay for it. AS technology improves the physical isolation becomes less of a wall.
My fantasy world would be thus: The British Empire extends around the oceans at its peak, including America that never had a revolution. This would be an almighty force that is impenetrable delivering eternal peace (within it’s boundaries). Conquered and now defended. Attack and it’s over for you.
We kind of have a de facto empire still, but is it enough to deter the great opposing force? It is questionable and fragile, somewhat mentally ill with radical liberalism, not robust and strong.
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Phillip, there is so much there that depends on stuff you didn’t look at! Like all empires, the British, and the following American empires both rose, grew by conquering and exploiting, grew mature and then collapsed in old age as their economies tanked. Britain’s after WW1 when the Yanks defeated them with some underhand economic dealings, and America is in the throes of collapse right now.
The ‘rest of the world’ ie- most of the people and their economic power, are betting on China and the BRICS. China can trade its way into world domination, it doesn’t need to invade, while countries that were formerly America’s lapdogs are getting up and leaving. Soon the US dollar will be dumped by enough people that the free ride the USA has had for 70years will be gone, and they will collapse faster and faster.
The countries they invaded and held onto, Germany and Japan, will eventually turn against them also, as the Saudis did. We will be left with the USA, Canada, Britain, Aussie & NZ as one bloc, the BRICS as another, Europe might hang together, and we will have to see where Africa lies. South East Asia will run with China, its where the economic power will be. The West is an old geriatric, dreaming of its youth and engaged with what sex means, the newcomers are the strong, fast men with somewhere to get to.
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The current lot on power would be there with little red flags to meet them ably assisted by the greens
Come on down we have unarmed the populace so no worries about them fighting back .
WE have run down the MILITARY only enough ammo to last a few days ,all our good items we gave away to fight Putin.
OUR SUBS what one operational , our ships enough fuel for how long?? air force well awaiting new stuff one day .
how many refinery’s think may be two but one for sure . we closed then all down to keep the greens happy,as for power don’t ask we have stuffed that well and truly and honorable Minister Fence Turtle has bent over some times frontwards sometimes backwards to achieve this SO can not manufacture items of a Military nature because he also has stuffed up the Gas supply again must keep Comrade Bant happy.
Come on down all your for the taking, one question what is in it for we who helped ,
Answer when an item is of no longer of use what happens to it disposed of IDIOTS
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Some interesting reads here and note several have mentioned those of the Oriental persuasion, i believe ther 5th colm is here and just waiting for the day their Masters say “”today is the day”” not all but those of the younger generation many here as supposed students at the cost of out own getting into University’s MONEY COUNTS and where are they getting it from ,as most are just poorly paid unless offspring of officials .OUR
point i make some time back 2 Chinese WAR Vessels arrived in Sydney Harbour ” CHECK OLD TV FOOTAGE “” AT the time of Covid lock down all was kept hush hush by the POwers that be at the time RE THIS ARRIVAL,
YET dozens of so called Chinese students were there waving little red flags of welcome and not one was arrested for breaking the covid lock down and HOW DID THEY KNOW OF THE ARRIVAL OF 2 SHIPS IN THE EARLY Am AND BE THERE TO GREET .
the 5th colmn is here now and possibly in places of power ,would love to be proved wrong but to me actions speak loud
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You are nuts, 5th column my ass.
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You gotta’ invest in deterrents in a dangerous world,…
Oh where have all the submarines gone, long time passing?
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I visited a ‘factory’ in China once. On the wall was a very big sign – red background and big gold paint Chinese characters.
I got it translated : “Happiness and fulfillment comes through compliance with regulations”.
Make no mistake the aim of the Chinese in Cold War 2, which we are deep into now, is to make sure you get as much ‘happiness and fulfillment’ as you can take.
We should be arming ourselves with tactical nuclear missiles, and a lot of them, yesterday.
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I hate to burst the economic bubble, but China is closer to the end of its economic build out than it is from the start.
There is nothing particularly rare about iron ore, and the pricing will return to long-term historical averages which is considerably lower than prices were when China was a vociferous consumer.
Further, Chinese investments in African raw materials will increasingly come on-stream and replace imports coming from the West.
That the West has sold so much off to the Chinese without any proper thought, other than short-term political gratification is our own stupid fault. In the old days this would be worthy of high-treason, but these turkeys won’t be voting for Christmas anytime soon.
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A question for the crowd.
If coal exports are booming, why are so many bulk carriers lying in anchor off Gladstone, Hay Point etc?
If their is a waiting list for Toyotas, EV’s etc, why are so many Car Carrying vessels anchored off the entrance to Brisbane?
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More about the Clintel findings of the UN IPCC 6 report and all their obvious mistakes and half truths.
Even Dr Curry admits there are parts of the IPCC 6 report that she didn’t fully understand until she read the full Clintel assessment.
Of course Steve McIntyre had previously exposed some of their erroneous nonsense and he was correct AGAIN.
I hope Jo and David have the time to read Dr Curry’s conclusions.
https://judithcurry.com/2023/05/13/clintels-critical-evaluation-of-the-ipcc-ar6/
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Dr Roger Pielke jnr also further pulled apart the IPCC 6 cherry picking in March 2023.
I hope Jo’s bloggers can get past the first paragraph from Dr Pielke and read about the Cherry pie he’s trying to unravel.
BTW I’m sure Dr Pielke doesn’t really think that their so called CC is a real CRISIS, but I could be wrong.
Anyway forget paragraph one and go directly to the cherry pie.
https://rogerpielkejr.substack.com/p/misinformation-in-the-ipcc
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Dr Curry’s reflections on the Clintel report are pertinent for those who don’t have the time to read her full comment.
“JC reflections
“The CLINTEL Report provides a much needed critical evaluation and intellectual counterpoint to the IPCC AR6.
There is a lot of good material in the AR6 WG1 Report, but there is also a lot of cherry picking and flat out errors in the Report (the AR6 WG2 Report is just flat out bad). With any kind of serious review, or if the author teams have been sufficiently diverse, we would not see so many of these kinds of errors. Unfortunately, the IPCC defines “diversity” in terms of gender, race and developed versus underdeveloped countries; actual diversity of thought and perspective is dismissed in favor of promoting the politically mandated narrative from the UN.
The consensus disease that that was caught by the IPCC following publication of the First Assessment Report in 1990, combined with pressures from policy makers, is resulting in documents that don’t reflect the broad disagreement and uncertainties on these complex topics. The IPCC’s mandated narrative has become very stale. Worse yet, it is becoming increasingly irrelevant to policy making by continuing to focus on extreme emissions scenarios and the embarrassing cherry picking that is required to support the “climate crisis” narrative that is so beloved by UN officials.
In any event, UN-driven climate policy has moved well past any moorings in climate science, even the relatively alarming version reported by the IPCC. The insane policies and deadlines tied to greenhouse gas emissions are simply at odds with the reality of our understanding of climate change and the uncertainties, and with broader considerations of human well being”.
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China is paying for what Australia sells.
It took over Tibet, Sinkiang and one of the Mongolias, doubling its land, in the 1950s. They have enormous resources. They don’t want war with a continent that reinvented smallpox and is thousands of kms away. The shareholders in mining etc corps also do not want higher royalties to pay for more weapons.
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China is actually a fragile empire. 100+ languages, ethnicities etc.
It is controlled by the PLA. They do not want war, but do want threats, to create the need for the PLA. See where that leads? Vietnam beat them a while ago …
Indon, India and China are destined to fall apart into their respective communities.
The whole idea of arming allies is to make $$$ for the UKUSA weapons makers.
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How not clever Labor is in government.
1996-2007 there was concern about future defence and Japan entered into a new agreement with the US and Australia for defence purposes and including that Japanese citizens would be evacuated for asylum in US and Australia if Japan was under threat.
The Howard Government also recognised threats to our security and increased defence spending, for example 2006/07 $19.6 Billion for Defence being an increase of over 3.7 per cent in real terms since 1995/96, and a real funding increase of 3 per cent every year for the next decade. They ordered new Air Warfare Destroyers, large amphibious ships*, helicopters and the Joint Strike Fighter. New heavy lift aircraft, more mobile and operationally ready ADF.
After November 2007 Labor cut defence spending, failed to make plans to replace the six RAN Collins Class submarines and with the two Canberra Class amphibious ships reduced the cost by changing the flight deck and ski jump strength designed for JSF stealth jet F-35 STOVL aircraft so that only helicopters could be handled. Imagine how useful those two largest of all RAN ships would be now equipped with fighter jets.
And now Labor is again procrastinating, after inheriting AUKUS and the long list of shorter and longer term projects for the three partner nations, and including nuclear submarines for the RAN followed by design and building of new generation nuclear submarines for the three nations, Labor started delays with a new inquiry into defence, cancellation of various orders for equipment, deferral of ordering on other equipment, no sense of urgency displayed.
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Australia
1) Arm your citizens with assault rifles and ammo.
2) Buy (4) Ohio Class Boomers from the US with a total of 80 Trident Missiles with nuclear weapons all triple MIRV’ed. So, 240 warheads. Keep (3) at sea at all times and learn to refurbish/overhaul quickly.
3) Israel is armed like that so other countries are careful to keep the attacks very conventional and primitive. The Jews have been through this and that is why they say “Never again.”
4) Israel’s enemies can lose over and over again. Israel can lose only once. Australia is no different in that regard. Once Chinese – forever Chinese.
If not, well, just go Communist, learn Mandarin, how to bow to the new Chinese Overlords and kiss your ass goodbye. You have, 5/10 years. Start now.
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For the “faint-hearted”:
“Investment” is a very precisely defined military term, as well as a “financial” term.
Some may have missed the “nuance”.
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