By Jo Nova
Just another catch on the road to Green Heaven. EV’s are heavier than petrol cars.
Where a full tank of gas or fuel is 70kg, a full tank of battery (or an empty one) weighs half a ton, or in the Tesla Model Y league — 771kg. That’s more than a whole Toyota Corolla weighed in 1967 (just 690kg). Now a Tesla Model X weighs 2,500kg and some of the newer EV’s weigh 4,000 kg.
That poses a problem for many structures that were designed with normal cars in mind. The odd EV is fine, but if the whole national fleet starts to become electric, suddenly loads on 50 year old bridges and shopping centre carparks are beyond the expected bounds. The infrastructure may have been designed when a normal car was just a 1970’s corolla.
In the UK, as many as 1 in 20 bridges may be too weak to handle the load. Perhaps it’s lucky then that there aren’t enough minerals in the world to make all those EV’s. If it takes us 200 years to dig up the copper required, that may give us time to rebuild the carparks and bridges.
Given the higher wear and tear from EV’s obviously their registration costs and licensing and some tax on charging should be more expensive than lighter normal fuel cars. Someone has to pay for the road damage and rebuilds.
A heavier “fuel tank” needs a heavier chassis to hold it. And a heavier car means heavier buildings and bridges for it to drive on, and all that means more concrete and steel and more emissions.
Sheer weight of electric vehicles could sink our bridges
Telegraph, UK
Councils receive notice that EVs are 33 per cent heavier than petrol vehicles – and 1 in 20 bridges are ‘substandard’
Councils should check the weight limits on bridges to ensure they don’t collapse with heavier electric cars travelling across them, ministers have suggested.
Analysis by the RAC Foundation earlier this year, found that one in 20 bridges across the country were deemed to be substandard. While one in 24 could not carry the heaviest vehicle on the roads, mainly lorries.
33 per cent heavier
[Tory MP Greg Knight] said: “Electric vehicles can be up to 33 per cent heavier than the equivalent petrol propelled vehicle and it is important that those, who ensure our roads and bridges are safe, factor them into account.
Last month, car park experts raised concerns about the ability of some ageing car parks ability to handle the weight as the number of electric vehicles grew.
Russell Simmons, chair of the British Parking Association’s structures group, told The Telegraph that he had carried out inspections of multi-storey car parks in the UK over the last six months which would not have been able to withstand new EV weights.
Earlier this year, Jennifer Homendy, the chair of the US National Transportation SafetyBoard, found that the best-selling EVs in the US were on average 33 per cent heavier than petrol counterparts. The difference will likely be similar for vans and heavy goods vehicles (HGVs).
A car park did collapse in New York on April 19th, though no one claimed to know why at the time.
One dead in NYC multi-storey car park collapse https://t.co/9cTGF9Fx46
— BBC Science News (@BBCScienceNews) April 18, 2023
Older car parks could collapse under electric vehicle weight
Multi-level car parks could face serious risk of structural failure and collapse due to the increasing weight of electric vehicles (EVs).
The average EV weighs significantly more than traditional petrol or diesel cars, largely due to their battery systems. As an example the top-spec Tesla Model X has a kerb weight of 2467kg, which means its Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 3069kg would far exceed most expectations of weight requirements in the past.
Other models that may eventually find their way to Australia such as the GMC Hummer EV weigh over 4000kg, which makes its GVWR an incredible 4800kg. The battery pack alone weighs over 1300kg, about the weight of a small car equipped with an internal-combustion engine.
Sales of electric cars across Australia nearly doubled in 2022 to 33,410 vehicles, equal to about 3.0 per cent of the total new vehicle market
As an example, here are some of the major shopping centres in Australia and their ages:
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- Chermside, Brisbane – opened in 1957, last major reconstruction in 1999 followed by minor updates in 2005, 2015.
- Chadstone, Melbourne – opened in 1960, last major redevelopments in 2007 and then 2016
- Macquarie Centre, Sydney – opened in 1981, last major redevelopment in 2012 with additional work in 2014.
Photo: Colonge Bonn Airport by Raimond Spekking
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This is a weak argument against EVs.
Check the weight of the average school run SUV , or the current best selling Utes (Hylix, Ranger , etc ‘. all 2100+ kg, ) and you will see that EV weights are a non issure.
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In Europe and the UK They are undoubtedly heavier than the usual vehicle found on the school run or more generally. A 44 tonne vehicle exerts 120,000 times more downward load onto a road surface than a 1 tonne vehicle so the same principle must apply to EV’s. Plus being heavier they shed more brake and tyre dust, adding to pollution.
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How long would a set of tyres last?? Tyres are generally designed for max weights. Does an EV require standard tyres or are there tyres specifically designed for an EV. If yes what price are they & how many kilometres will they last before needing replacement. What is life expectancy of the electric motors & what is the replacement price of electric motors. A dead battery + a faulty electric motor = another new EV . No trade in value as the “ animal “ is stone dead!!
One may ask the same questions about braking systems. Disc pads & discs. Suspension & other undercarriage components would need to be more robust!!
With battery life & general maintenance the EV will require some hefty maintenance & the costs will compare favourably with your mortgage!
Once fossil fuels are largely done away with, subsidies for green energy will dry up and home owners, renters, EV owners will be fair game for blackmail pricing by electricity providers. Green energy is becoming ever more expensive. What will you pay when there are no more SUBSIDIES?? Disaster looms ever nearer.
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All good points Graham. Will the end result be that people simply will not be able to afford to move around much simply due to overall cost once we have an all EV Fleet ?
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THAT is the “plan”.
Empty the peasant’s wallets by government mandated means and funnel them into “mandated housing and transport”.
“Arbeit Macht Frei” rings a bell.
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And the one world government said: “YES”. The “15-minute” city is their answer to the problem that they created for you to seek/hope for an answer to and you will be happy that YOU found it.
Suggestion to Jo – place your tip jar at the bottom of your thread because all these pennies are starting to drop lol.
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Mr. Richards: My thought is that they will require special tires on
EVs when the “special” tires can only be made in China.
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Tony & Graham,
Tony I’m not sure about “A 44 tonne vehicle exerts 120,000 times more downward load” does not seem to add up! The reason they have so many wheels is to distribute the load so the actual contact pressure on the road is not much different to an average car. The road pressure of a 2500 kg car is probably higher than the truck.
It is not so much about the mass but the inertia of the mass that should be the concern, the roads are damaged because the suspension can not act instantaneously to maintain an even distribution of the load, so a truck rides better than a car because of the higher inertia of a much heavier mass but the impact of an individual truck tyre hitting a bump on the road is greater because of the same inertia. So the damage caused is also higher from a heavier car.
I remember reading that Tesla supplied tyres are specially made & very expensive, although Google was a bit vague.
If the battery totally dies can you open the doors – I read somewhere NO!
Imagine a battery fire on the ground floor of a multi-story parking station! Enough heat to damage the concrete.
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If the battery totally dies can you open the doors – I read somewhere NO!
I read recently of a woman who was trapped in Tesla for hours when the battery failed, or died. It was impossible to get her out as nothing worked. In the end they had to smash a window to release her.
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If the wear and impacts from cars are “probably” greater than from trucks because the trucks have more wheels to spread the load, then why do roads that are designed for trucks have much deeper pavements than roads for car use?
It’s the house construction traffic and garbage truck allowances that boost the depth of residential street pavements.
I don’t know the answer. But just thinking about the respective pavement designs it seems trucks “probably” have more impact.
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The problem is the repetative loading – not the total weight – the more wheels the more loads up and down – then water in the depression does the damage. Come see my dirt road for potholes after rain and truck use!
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Don’t need to look at yours. I’ve got 6km of dirt road to drive on every time I leave my place. 😉
(It wasn’t me who red thumbed your comment.)
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Nonsense
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Existing design specs have already been strained by the general increase in vehicle weight and volume over the years.
What we are talking about now, on top of those already eroded safety margins and loss of strength with the passage of time for older infrastructure, is a very large additional % increase in the average weight of vehicles in a very short time.
Yes a 4-5000lb F150 already exists, the EV version is 6500lb. It’s about the total average vehicle weight in a carpark, the total weight of traffic on a bridge. Obviously these are set to increase dramatically and should be of concern.
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If you think car pparks etc are designed only to carry medium/average weight cars with no safety factor added,..then you may be correct.
. But i suspect that is not the case.
Further.. the most popular EV in Oz (Tesla3) , weighs 300kg LESS than the best selling ICE (Toyota Hilux)
And the nissan Leaf is 600kg lighter !
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You’re avoiding his point.
Most structures were designed for the lower vehicle weights thirty years ago.
Now, with all vehicles being larger, there’s a responsibility on the owners of the structures to reassess things to acknowledge original design parameters.
Long overdue apparently.
EVs are just the final straw.
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EVs are just the final straw.
And that straw sits on top of the other human influenced straws that litter this recent history of human construction failures:
– Sydney carpark collapse July 2012
– Christchurch earthquake 2011 collapse of CTV building 115 dead. Particularly nasty given the subsequent royal commission finding:
“In September 2012 it was discovered the man who supervised the building’s construction had faked his engineering degree. Gerald Shirtcliff had stolen the identity of a retired engineer based in the UK, William Fisher.[36] The pair had been friends in the 1960s, and Shirtcliff stole Fisher’s degree by adopting his name.[37] It was later discovered Shirtcliff’s father had done most of the work on his masters in highway engineering.”
And not forgetting:
– Florida International University pedestrian bridge
The common thread of the above is massive issues with planning/design even before vehicle or foot traffic got added or in the case of Christchurch after qualification check failings – if any were carried out.
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It seems odd to argue that a modern SUV is heavy therefore an EV is not heavier. What do you think, would an electric SUV be heavier than or lighter than an existing SUV? I would think much heavier. And if the average sedan gets closer to the weight of an SUV, then surely as a group the passenger vehicle fleet must become heavier as EV penetration increases?
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Ah! But the SUV takes up more space than a Tesla, so the the load is slightly less than all EVs in the car park.
But both SUVs and EVs are bought by the same people.
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“If you think car parks etc are designed only to carry medium/average weight cars with no safety factor added,..then you may be correct.“
What’s the reason for a safety factor? Does it need to be there? Clearly, if the safety factor load is taken up with vehicle load, it won’t exist.
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Ultimately the safety factor is to provide additonal strength over and above the design load and to then take into account variations in actual material strength as compared to the theoretical material strength used for the calculations. While you can get actual material strength data from samples of material, those samples are not the actual material used in construction. The issue is creep of your calculated loads over time or creep in the system usage over time (I’m a mech eng, not a civil, but similar principles apply). It is all fine as you move closer to the edge of the limit, until suddenly it isn’t fine anymore.
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Chad, you’re making irrelevant one to one comparisons and ignoring the whole picture.
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German bridge condition under the spotlight
Expert report: Many bridges are in critical condition
German highway company says 3,000 bridges in bad shape
Please realise, these bridges in question are only highway bridges, backroads or rural roads were not incorporated.
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All the more reason for Germany to abandon its wasted and useless stampede towards a CO2 free utopia.
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All engineering [except power generation capacity] has a safety factor built in. The increase in Toorak Tractors will have “used up” some of that margin in older structures. Is there still enough to allow batteries?
Maybe the school kids will go back to bikes, as we did.
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The back regions of the Hunter valley are interconnected with roads that are serviced at the many river crossings by wooden bridges.
Almost entirely single lane those bridges also have warning signs that indicate weight limits. Farming communities accept that there are practical limits but city administrators and businesses are more likely to turn a blind eye to the loading realities of their profit making car parks.
The New York incident is a big warning but it’s doubtful that anyone in authority in Australia would be too worried; just look at the high rise certification of residential buildings that have been below standard.
Money rules.
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Trucks regularly cross those bridges, fully laden .
You see the sign “only one truck on the bridge at a time” on many bridges.
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What do you know about the Hunter, don’t you live down near the Victorian border.
🙂
Many bridges do stipulate weight limits, e.g. out the back of Wollombi.
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And what are those weight limits… 5, 10, 20 tonnes?
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Can’t imagine too many EVs around Wollomi.
Gotta get there… and back !
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Now that you mention it, there have been a lot of EVs abandoned on the roadside on the road to Wollombi once you get past Millfield.
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There will be when all you can buy is an EV, by Government edict
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btw, I know Wollombi quite well from younger days when I owned a pseudo-Harley.
Probably 15 years since I’ve been there, though.
Great little watering hole. 🙂
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The Tavern was washed out in the big flood but has been cleaned up and a pizza oven installed. A great new years eve party recently.
But too far to come up from the border zone.
🙂
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at least it is self defeating for EVS to collapse their car park!
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Britain is not known as a haven for 4WDs so 500 kg could be an issue.
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but they do have Bentley and Rolls Royce,… hardly lightweights!
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and how many of them are present in the average multi level car park?
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True, but I was thinking more of bridges. 🙂
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Maybe the Windsors will trade their Range Rovers and Rollers on Corollas? CRIII is very green isn’t he?
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A well-established rule in automotive engineering is that road wear by motor vehicles increased in proportion to the fifth power of axle load. Main roads require stronger pavement than minor roads as a result and expressways require very expensive pavement.
Adding 500kg to a 2-tonne vehicle consequently increases by three times the road wear that would be caused by the increased axle load of that vehicle.
The replacement of conventional ICE vehicles with EVs would mean increasing local road maintenance costs by a factor of three or increasing the structural strength of all local roads to avert the increased maintenance cost.
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Clearly EV owners should be paying penalty rego, not getting concessions.
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Mr. Hanrahan: Prediction- Probably happen in AU before USA, when the progs feel confident that new ICE vehicles won’t be widely available, then the subsidies will turn into penalties that we will all pay, one way or another.
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They are an issue actually as all the vehicles you mention are just part of the overall vehicle fleet and are compensated by the presence of many small cars. Vehicles like Hiluxes also don’t often grace multi level car parks. They also start at 1800kg not your exaggerated “all” 2100+kg. Also those vehicles aren’t being mandated after a certain date in the way EVs are in some countries. As usual ignore reality can be ignored but that doesn’t mean it wont bite you.
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ELECTRIC VEHICLES, THE WAVE OF THE PAST
Governments keep trying to force us to drive electric vehicles, and it keeps not happening. From the thoroughly pro-EV Times of London:
Fresh concerns have been raised about efforts to boost sales of electric cars after an industry trade body downgraded its forecast for demand.
According to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), high energy costs and insufficient charging infrastructure will dampen demand for new battery electric cars this year.
It predicted that registrations would fall in market share from 19.7 per cent of new cars to 18.4 per cent.
So EV market share, at least in the U.K., is declining, not rising. Meanwhile, the British government demands more EVs:
Governments keep trying to force us to drive electric vehicles, and it keeps not happening. From the thoroughly pro-EV Times of London:
Fresh concerns have been raised about efforts to boost sales of electric cars after an industry trade body downgraded its forecast for demand.
According to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), high energy costs and insufficient charging infrastructure will dampen demand for new battery electric cars this year.
It predicted that registrations would fall in market share from 19.7 per cent of new cars to 18.4 per cent.
So EV market share, at least in the U.K., is declining, not rising. Meanwhile, the British government demands more EVs:
From next year manufacturers must ensure that at least 22 per cent of new car sales and 10 per cent of new vans are emissions-free. This will rise every year incrementally to 80 per cent for cars and 70 per cent for vans by 2030, and 100 per cent for both by 2035.
Needless to say, those demands will not be met. Why not?
[The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders] said that US and European rivals, in particular, were being boosted by green subsidies and tax breaks, and without a similar response from the Treasury, British carmakers would not be able to compete in what it argued was a “global race”.
A race to the bottom. Electric vehicles exist in quantity only because of mandates and subsidies.
But there are other problems, too, as the Telegraph notes:
There were always obvious problems with the technology: the electricity has to come from somewhere, and Britain isn’t installing enough chargers to meet government targets. And that’s before you take the rocketing price of electricity into account, which means that thousands of the handy roadside chargers where motorists could charge up for nothing have been pulled. There are nearly 40 per cent fewer than a year ago.
All electric vehicle plans and calculations that failed to take into account the skyrocketing cost of electricity, driven by inefficient (if not useless) expenditures on wind and solar energy, are defunct. But that’s not all:
It now turns out that some bridges may not be able to take the weight of electric cars which, due to their large battery packs, are heavier than their petrol equivalents. Cue lengthy detours to a sturdier crossing point.
More unforeseen, and entirely needless, consequences.
A further issue is what happens when an electric car hits a pedestrian or a cyclist. Because they’re so heavy, the impact can be worse than that of a normal car. Urban 4x4s used to get a bad press because they could flatten pedestrians like a tank, but an electric car can do the same.
Because they’re so quiet – unless they come with the fake engine noises manufacturers are working on – people might not hear them coming.
This is a wrinkle I hadn’t anticipated. Electric vehicles need to pretend to be gasoline-powered to minimize collisions with pedestrians.
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Flexible pavements and other structures such as bridges are designed on average axle loadings and the number of cycles re loadings.
Other designs (such as traffic) bridges/overpasses etc include Factors of Safety based on number of vehicles and average weight of vehicles.
We may well see restictions re traffic flow on older structures.
To say it’s a non-issue is ignorance re matters that count.
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Jo specifically mentioned car parks designed in 1970.
That was before the oil shocks of that decade and the weight of vehicles declined by 20% by 1980 but gained that weight back by 2015, prior to EV’s capturing much market. Average vehicle weights in the 1970’s was just under 2,000 Kg and rose back to that value by 2015.
Just as big an issue is the size and weight of SUV’s which have come to dominate markets in the last 10 years. The truck chassis based SUV’s are typically 1000 Kg heavier than sedans while pickup trucks, most with extended cabs, running at 1500 Kg heavier (although these often need 2 spots in a car park). Admittedly, the Ford F150 lightning does add another 500 Kg to the weight of the equivalent ICE version.
The car parks collapses I’ve seen were designed before WWII and have been in cold climates where salt is used to treat roads in the winter so I think it’s a stretch to blame EV’s on this one. I think the load on the electric grid is a much more serious concern for EV’s than the parking structures.
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Its about time EV’s stopped freeloading off regular motorists.
They get a grant for the car, often don’t pay to enter congestion zones, are being provided with public charging points, in the UK they pay a fraction of the road tax levied on vehicles and more importantly they don’t pay fuel tax levied on petrol/diesel even though they are using the road infrastructure including bridges and multi storey car parks.
Due to their weight they exert more wear and tear on the roads therefore an extra annual EV tax of £1500 would seem fair in order for them to pay a similar amount of vehicle taxes to ICE cars.
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That Tesla X SUV weight of 2467 kg, is no different to its equivalent (size & prihce ) ICE Range Rover (2450kg) or Mercedes GL SUV etc.
And as for bridges, or other road infrastructure etc…….. they are all built to carry loaded trucks, bus’s etc, with a regulated max weight which is unlikely to be altered.
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Chad
Everyone else on the roads pay large amounts of tex in order to maintain the infrastructure including road surface, barriers, bridges, lighting etc.
that comes in the UK mostly from a heavy tax on fuel. EV drivers use the roads for free as they don’t pay this tax or any equivalent. You will agree this is neither fair nor sustainable. An annual tax of £1500 would level things up.
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I was also going to mention “road tax”. EV owners generally think they should be exempt from such things, presumably because their over-inflated sense of entitlement keeps the wheels just above the road surface and they glide along, powered by smugness.
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Chad, so the EV trucks with heavier fuel tanks ie batteries, will be required to carry lighter loads. I presume that would mean more EV trucks, more drivers, more costs.
Unless of course we are expected to cut back on goods that we want or need.
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Yes !
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Chad, of course structures are designed to take the maximum weight of heavy vehicles.
It is the mix of vehicle weights that is different with EVs.
E.g. a bridge might be designed to take lifetime traffic of 10% trucks of certain average weight and 90% cars of certain average weight.
As the average weight of cars goes up beyond what was designed for, the accumulated damage will also go up and shorten the lifetime of the bridge, road or other structure.
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conveniently leaves out multi story car parks
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Funny the way you needed to change your story Chad.
Up at the top you compared to the Hilux … which is probably the most popular ute in Australia and only around 2000kg unloaded … now you suddenly need to compare with what? Range Rover?!? About seven Australians drive those and those seven have “people” to do the shopping and would never be seen in supermarket carparks.
Anyway the difference between an unloaded Hilux and unloaded Tesla Model X is your 500kg right there … BTW the Hilux goes between 700km and 800km on a single tank depending on traffic, while the Tesla X will struggle to do 500km and the Hilux is a workhorse carrying half its own weight in cargo while the Tesla is only a passenger car.
The Hilux can typically do about 350,000km in a lifetime but no Tesla will ever achieve that.
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It should nor be forgotten that the 500 kg battery needs to be replaced every 10000 to 15000 km depending if it is rapid charged which wears a battery out much more quickly. A petrol tank can last forever and a diesel tank lasts longer. The EV rush has not been thought out and I think it will collapse long before ICE vehicles die out. Anything that requires subsidies and special advantages to be attractive is doomed to failure. When the general populace realise they have been lied to for decades a new breed of politicians will supplant the woke ignoramuses who inhabit the corridors of power now. No wonder the left want to control the media.
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Laurie,
Do us all a favour and fact check your thoughts before posting such rubbish !
02
Tel…
The Hilux was chosen as it is/was the top selling car vehicle in Au…as a comparison to the top selling EV , the Tesla mod3.
The RRover was used as a direct equivalent to the Tesla modX. .. similar vehicles in price and size.
I am willing to bet there are 10 times more RRovers in Au than Tesla ModX’s !
But, if you prefer a more popular ICE equivalent, why not check out the Toyota Land Cruiser !!!
But the basic point I am trying to make is that all cars are much heavier these days, mainly due to safety requirements, and all the luxury equipment that buyers expect.
So, I will simply say again…Au’s 2 best selling ICE cars both weigh over 2100 kg .
If you want to argue against EVs you need to pick a better issue than weight.. and there are plenty of issues to choose from !
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Tesla Mod X luxury 4X4 , 7 seat SUV 2500 kg
Lexus 570 luxury 4×4 7 seat SUV 2680 kg
Hyundai Kona ICE 1505 kg
Hyundai Kona EV 1535 kg
Add a tank of fuel to the ICE and there is no difference !
Just do real like for like comparisons !
01
Texas will be charging $200 USD/year for EVs, to make up for the lost gasoline road taxes.
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Half the cost of fuel in the UK is tax, I suspect the proportion is lower in the US. £1500 is around the average tax paid on the average 8000 miles per year. I don’t know what the equivalent would be in Oz? The net result is that EV drivers don’t pay this tax and don’t contribute to the expensive road infrastructure
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Have you seen a breakdown of the fuel dollar in Oz?
Between Feral excise and GST and State taxes, the oil companies have to sell more and more to keep up with “indexed” taxes etc. And the oil companies’ “base price is determined by global political shenanigans and the creativity of cartel factors, like the Singapore bench price. Like gold and other materials, it is a GLOBAL commodity, including speculation on the speculation; serious gambling for the big end of town and the governments “getting their share”.
Ditto a simple thing like a can of beer; The empty can costs MORE to produce than the contents, in raw form. The hand of “government” is heaviest when it is applying “sin taxes”. And then they added a 15 cent “recycling levy” to a whole raft of containers. NOT included were wine and spirit bottles, but plasticized paper milk and juice containers apparently are. Adventurous souls can “reclaim” 10 cents of that 15 at their local “Cash for containers” establishment. BTW, those little operations must have cost a wad of loot to set up and operate. What is the REAL deal, there? Break-even tonnage per week? Or is this ANOTHER monet-goround funded by the increasingly-bludgeoned public?
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Bruce:
many years ago (more than I like to think) when the refund of empty aluminium cans started, the eldest son of a friend wanted a waste place behind the garage to store cans so he could buy a bike. My friend was delighted about his ideal, until a few days later when he inspected the haul. He said “there were cans piled up to the fence” and over 300 kilograms. Which he had to take to the recycling depot (fortunately he had a station wagon).
His eldest son has corralled his 2 brothers and about 6 other small boys to contribute cans (so they could ride his new bikes). You might be supervised to know he was a millionaire by 30 years.
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A young fellow I knew wanted his dad to buy him a bike. Dad, a business man, told him to gather scrap and raise money that way. The scrappie told him that lead was the best value. When next it rained dad’s shop had a leaking roof because son had purloined all the lead flashing.
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My heart goes out to the worlds automakers. Governments are forcing them by law to build cars that no body wants to buy. In a few years those ludicrous EV laws will be rescinded, and automakers will be left with $billions in losses. Just watch.
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You will be forced to buy cr*ppy Chinese cars. Just watch.
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Not only nobody wants to buy them but ferry operators are now refusing to carry them and proprietors of multi-storey car parks should sell while they can.
Battery cars are incendiary bombs and need storing away from the public; there needs to be an swl developed for these gizmos. Look at the Moorabool BESS setting itself alight before its launch date and fizzing for half a week; there needs to be a bound placed on the watt hours of stored energy a citizen has in his lithium briefcase.
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A typical fuel tank may be 50 litres to 80 litres. But on average it is half full. So it is another 25kg to 40kg lighter. A battery however weighs 600kg at all times. This problem is far worse with trucks because the energy density of batteries is 10% of fuel and so they are 10x the weight and on average 20x the weight.
Also a petrol fire needs oxygen and it can be extinguished. A battery fire does not need oxygen and cannot be extinguished.
The wear and tear on tyres and bitumen from rolling but more accelerating an decelerating and turning is weight dependent. So damage to public roads is much higher. And the lifespan of tyres much shorter, adding to the environmental costs certainly as tyres are made from fossil fuels. High torque electric engines will accelerate this.
The reported problems with damage from collision is that even minor damage to an electric car means a write off, not a repair. This will push insurance through the roof.
I do not expect the full cost of electric cars has been appreciated.
But the damage to the economy will be from the move of trucks from diesel. In Albanese’s Safeguard Mechanism, the assault on all diesel engines from trucks to tractors to trains to ships to planes will legally require a 5% decrease in shipping, mining, transport every year until 2030, starting 1st July 2023. This will devastate Australia.
All to stop Global Warming? Of course not. China is attacking our very infrastrcture and quality of life. With a strangle hold on rare earths due to the very same Green parties who closed all the mines, all rare earths come from China and the cost juimped from $8 a kg to $250 a kg.
The Greens and their friends the Teals are wrecking the joint. Exactly as ordered by President Xi. WWIII has started in the nuclear age.
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And remember the world of private transport was closed for most of a year in most countries from 2020 to 2022.
Major City streets were emptied from Rio to Delhi to Sydney. People were locked in their houses, even in China. Commercial aircraft were parked in the desert. Factories were closed. Building sites were empty. Shopping centres, restaurants. Cities were ghost towns and still not back to life.
What effect did shutting down all the cars and planes and cruise ships have on CO2? Absolutely undetectable.
So why are electric cars and trucks and trains and ships and planes being forced on us with the Safeguard Mechanism? It’s not to lower CO2 which is the ONLY alleged problem. What has been made law in Australia is worse than the lockdown.
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Included in the Safeguard Mechanism is the shutdown of mining, transport, shipping(diesel), flying, driving, farming(diesel), sewage, chemical manufacture (fertilizer, explosives, plastics,..), smelting (Iron, aluminium, lead,..), manufacturing. Even country rail lines including Victoria’s V-Line are on the hit list.
Every single activity because the ‘Biggest Polluters’ are you. Reducing ’emissions’ by 45% in 7 years means that jobs will halve. Goods will double in price. Australia’s income will halve. Why?
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Interesting that the shutdown list includes the very things needed to produce and power electric cars.
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Agreed, but the real attack is on Australia and it is done by legislation. And no one expects any drop in CO2. So you have to question why we are passing laws to damage ourselves. Or pay the world’s highest carbon taxes, as well as those already embedded in our electricity system.
Without the RET law, the Renewable Energy(Electricity) 2001 Act, electricity would be a fraction of the cost. It would halve tomorrow if it was repealed.
It’s not just about about electric cars for the rich. And Albanese has removed the massive luxury car tax on electric cars to enable the rich to buy cars at twice the price. The Teals will be thrilled.
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“So you have to question why we are passing laws to damage ourselves. Or pay the world’s highest carbon taxes, as well as those already embedded in our electricity system.”
It is an integral part of a global population “right-sizing” operation.
Several orders of magnitude reduction in the the “useless eater” population and all will be sweetness and light, again.
As Irma Bombeck apparently noted:
“The grass may well be greener on the other side of the fence, but it is GREENEST over the mass graves”.
Some previous commenter mentioned that, early in the Kung Flu Kaper, China “also” locked down.
China STARTED it. The widely broadcast images of welding people inside their own homes was the SIGNAL to the dangerous loonies; pollie-muppets, pubic serpents and wankerdemics, that THIS is how things are to be done. The ONLY “science” involved was POLITICAL SCIENCE.
161
The inability of the progressive brigade to think through the implications of their decisions highlights the lack of quality of their education and training. And commonsense.
I don’t count politicians amongst this lot. A fair swag of them just don’t seem to care about the implications of their decisions at all, apart from the impact on voting trends etc.
151
“A fair swag of them just don’t seem to care about the implications of their decisions at all,”
Those that can’t read a 3000page document overnight and still pass it into law the next day?
100
Gerry, you are WAY too kind.
The self-styled “progressives” are FULLY aware of the consequences of ALL of their actions.
They are at core, socialists. Therefore, they are just another badge-engineered DEATH CULT.
121
Bruce, it’s bewildering how such indifference and compassion exists in these characters. It seems a very selfish and ego-driven world they live in.
21
What the “good: people do not understand, and never will, is that their “good” ideas and laws will punish them too. They believe their actions only effect other folk, those who do not vote for them, but food and energy go hand in hand whether it is the growing, the processing or, importantly, the distribution. Just wait until their favourite little grocer tells them their preferred food is unavailable.
00
TdeF,
The numbers on Energy Density or actually Specific Energy (MJ/kg) are always interesting,
Uranium = 80 Million
Hydrogen = 142 (compressed at 700 bar)
Natural Gas = 56
Diesel = 48
Coal (anthracite) = 27
Coal (lignite) = 15
Wood = 15 (but has a lower Energy Density than lignite)
Lithium-Ion battery (rechargeable) = 0.5
WIND and SOLAR do not have Energy Density or Specific Energy as such and it is obvious why!
80
Petrol would be pretty high on this list wouldn’t it?
10
Petrol = 46 slightly less dense than Diesel
20
@TdeF #6
Nicely summarised. Neat, concise, complete.
10
More unexpected consequences and then there’s, wear on roads, tyres, heavier crashes and deaths, more right-offs, spontaneous fires and parking issues, battery recycling and pollution, and lots more including grid supply issues. Please add some if you wish . .
121
More expensive repairs (even write offs) from what would be minor crashes in ICE vehicles from reports lately.
The electric “One Shot Lighter”?
81
Declining car shipment options. Mitsui OSK bans used EV shipping after sinking of Felicity Ace which, if not originally EV battery caused was certainly contributed to by EV batteries. Will just take a couple more losses and other shipping firms will no doubt follow Mitsui lead. Leisure shipping ie taking your own car to Tasmania may be next in the chopping block queue.
70
I mentioned elsewhere in this thread that soon EVs won’t be allowed in the Chunnel.
70
As a point of comparison, my car with a six litre V8 weighs 2000kg (with a nearly exact 50/50 F/R weight distribution) which is still lighter than many EVs. Plus I don’t suffer range anxiety and I can refuel in minutes, not hours.
290
My Volvo 850 empty 1370 kg, max total 1890 kg, 80l tank…. one refill for ca 1450km to southern France after 75% of the way.
90
David, ..the worlds best selling EV (Tesla M 3) weighs 1850 kg.
So, where is your argument ?
21
The worlds best selling ICE vehicle weighs 90kg. Over 100 million units have been produced. Fuel consumption is near 200 MPG (US).
00
The worlds best selling Electric vehicle weighs 25 kg
Over 100 million units have been produced.
The Ebike !
Fuel consumption 400 mpg equivalent
00
That should read ..
“ over 300 million units produced”,.. to date .
…with 50 million more every year !
00
I see your point but I’m guessing that Bruce is citing a model of motorbike, not all motorbikes.
00
Possibly, but I suspect his figure includes all versions of that Honda “Cub” … 50cc ,90cc, 110cc, etc
00
Ahh..a Man after my own heart, although I have to settle for a twin turbo V6, as the cost to register a V8 in sunny Queensland is prohibitive. Car weighs in at 1960 kg till I hop in. If my Lotto numbers ever come up, I’m after something with a V12 in it.
60
Guess that’s the Merc, not the GM.
00
Not much point in getting nuclear submarines if everything needed to support and maintain them is a “big polluter” and is to be shut down to save the planet. What will save us???? Getting rid of this government and Chris Bowen would help.
231
MORE EV NONSENSE
I just saw a tiktok – the creator applauding the manufacturer “WELL DONE”
The new electric vehicle got a flat tyre – there is no spare fitted (presumably no room for one)
Driver calls manufacturer – they issue a cab charge and send a tow truck.
Driver gets cab home – EV gets towed to service center
Next day, driver gets cab to service center and picks up repaired EV.
The carbon footprint of a flat tyre……SAVING THE PLANET.
280
Tow truck drivers love EVS. Usual scenario after small accident:
– tow car to service centre to have battery disconnected
– tow car to specialist panel shop for repairs
– tow car to service centre for power reconnection
– in some cases tow car to owner
130
Yes – with my ICE manual vehicle I can roll start it if the battery is flat (the compression is 11 to 1, so its harder than an old Corolla but can be done).
It it runs out of fuel then the RACQ have a jerry can that they can top it up, or I can get to the nearest garage and get a small can.
But as you point out, the EV is in 99% of cases dead in the water and has to be towed. The RACQ claim that they have some ability to recharge the vehicle but when I queried about how long that would take they could not say. The customer service agent did say that if they had to be towed they would have to pay up according to their plan – and privately agreed that probably a lot more towing would be going on in future…
50
And what about braking distance? It will be substantially longer than a petrol equivalent. If they are range limited should they also be speed limited?
And it’s weight that chews cars up during their life time. Wear and tear on everything that moves. Suspension, brakes, steering etc. Running repairs will be a lot higher on this issue alone.
151
There is no logical reason that should be so provided it is shod appropriately. Low rolling resistance tyres may, I don’t know, have less grip but that is a function of the tyre.
Tesla tyres are typically over $200 a corner and don’t last long.
https://www.evspeedy.com/tesla-tires-cost/
11
An extra 500kg…..on the same wheel base…..is going to be a challenge I think. Remember a race car is stripped out of weight. Not added.
01
Most people owning an EV will never happen, they are only for Elites.
The plan of the WEF and “15 min cities” is to dramatically reduce or abolish private ownership of cars, because these are an important component of personal freedom which the Left don’t want non-Elites to have.
Basically the Left want non-Elites returned to the times before the Industrial Revolution to the time of Medieval Serfdom whereby people were bound to the land (how green!) in indentured servitude and lived their entire lives never leaving what was effectively their “15 minute city/village”.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/goodbye-car-ownership-hello-clean-air-this-is-the-future-of-transport/
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/world-economic-forum-calls-reduce-private-vehicles-by-eliminating-ownership
https://twitter.com/FoxBusiness/status/1553802729327312905?t=SbpjJFwqJCdzy2d0lXIIEQ&s=19
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/03/15-minute-city-stickiness/
241
Yes, that’s the Green answer. We should not manufacture anything, go anywhere, eat anything, move anything. Except on a Chinese bicycle.
The Chinese themselves abandoned bicycles two decades ago. I was in Shanghai when the trucks rolled by with thousands of bicycles, not to be seen again.
But we are being told to use them. They want to force us to live as they did while they live as we did. It’s a form of revenge for the hardship under Chairman Mao. We go back to Victorian times and they own the 21st century. I wonder if I can buy a penny farthing?
160
They want our power generation back to dutch 17Th century technology, so why not our transport technology back to 19th century bikes.
Should be good for me. A sailer with a masters ticket, I should be one of the first chosen to captain the new clipper sailing ships, replacing dirty fossil fueled container ships, bringing our bicycles from china.
50
Can we at least settle for 1712 when Thomas Newcomen produced the first successful steam engine to replace animals and wind?
20
It would interesting to know what % of the EVs bought are fleet cars and what % are on the you-beaut lease arrangements under salary packaging schemes.
60
Yes, that would be interesting because it is well known that the Australian car market is mostly driven by fleet sales. Private car purchasing is a minor part of the market.
30
It’s fascinating that massive private vehicle ownership is reckoned to be the culprit re. pollution. At the end of the 1940s we had the misfortune to have to live in a small flat in central London. We had no car, most people didn’t own one and yet the smogs were atrocious. You couldn’t see the end of your nose. Obviously there were other factors but private vehicles are now taking the blame.
In view of an item on the blog yesterday, we should be asking the Spirit of Tasmania what their policy is re. EVs.
90
Read this yesterday
https://www.energystoragejournal.com/blanket-ban-on-evs-by-norwegian-ferry-line/
70
Most also own an ICE, they can afford it.
20
This is a communist Chinese attack on the whole of the world. It is NOT science. And nothing to do with CO2. As for CO2, the gas of life being a pollutant, it is beyond my belief that this could get past any scientist. Plus after 35 years of ‘highway to climate hell’ and 8 years, 9 years, 10 years to go to the end of the world, it is not funny any more.
Can we please repeal every single law relating to Climate Change and Renewables and disband those ‘Clean’ energy departments and regulations.
The entire Environment industry is now wrecking the place. And surely this is intentional because there is no benefit at all.
And none at all from toy electric cars. While we leave all our coal in the ground and use Chinese windmills and solar panels as a stop gap solution to nothing at all.
254
You will need a completely new political party with 70% of the votes and tens of thousands of people willing to stand outside parliament every day to make sure the Soros-paid rioters don’t change the minds of the politicians.
First job would be to boot the Yanks out of Australia and close the American Embassy, or you will suddenly see your politicians having ‘unfortunate fatal accidents’… If we tried to go against the powers behind the throne we would be another Iraq or Libya or Ukraine very soon!
30
TdeF you are obsessed with Chinese communism ‘. . . Chinese attack on the whole world’
I don’t understand ! Surely all these issues discussed above are part of an Australian self inflicted ideology.
Why blame China for the decisions of our politicians and our fellow Australians who voted them into power ?!
Remember that without the Chinese workers of this world your average Australian would be walking around naked and bare footed !!
10
Here’s another good interview of Alex Epstein with Rita from Sky news in DEC last year.
The full 10 minutes covers a lot of ground and plenty of the EV BS and fraud as well.
I’m sure the EVs and other disasters like TOXIC W & S will be abandoned because of voter backlash and a lack of new TOXIC + expensive mining materials and other cost involved.
Hopefully the voter backlash will happen within 2 electoral cycles, but extreme damage will be done to the economy and the full debt recovery will take us decades into the future.
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/energy-expert-alex-epstein-says-us-paying-poor-countries-to-stay-poor-as-australia-emulates-the-mistakes-of-europe-and-the-us/news-story/3aa4e5a66a5ec6ce549cdabeaec7a687
100
I wonder if the members of the Slave Army of Useful/Useless Idiots of the Left who suppport, promote and participate in the Left Elite’s Agenda will ever wake up and realise they are being used and exploited by a small number of Elites who tell them what to think and do for their own power and money?
70
“If only Stalin knew!” Famous last words of “patriots” being herded into cattle wagons, in Winter, for a trip to “Siberia”.
That sort of thing?
120
I am a supporter of Elon Musk, and like all successful people he has also made some mistakes.
However, he is not stupid. I don’t think for an instant that he believes he is making EVs for anybody but Leftist Elites.
In any case, the Left now hate him because of his support of free speech.
210
Electric cars are fun, entertainment, silent, interesting. Practical? Hardly. An investment. Certainly not. But there is always a luxury market for those people who want a symbol of their success or to entertain friends.
But the future of transport? I doubt Elon Musk thinks so.
A solution to the steady rise of CO2? Of course not. There is nothing humans have done in the last hundred years which has had ANY effect on CO2. Even major bushfires and volcanoes and WWI and WWII are not visible on the record. Nor the world wide shutdown of most casual transport for a year. Private cars, cruise ships, whole air fleets.
So are electric cars a solution to anything? No, they are luxury entertainment. And a burden to everyone else.
132
And it is staggering that the luxury car tax has been removed for electric cars. What are they thinking?
While the greens claim fossil fuels are subsidized, all the subsidies are for the Greens and Teals who live in a different world cosseted by our cash.
A bit like the ABC covering the coronation. It would be better if their angry people showed up in traditional costume. Nothing at all.
130
Oh so true !
00
a better tag line would have been “Dodgy builders of the world breath a sigh of relief as they realise they can blame EV’s for structural failures and not their adulteration of concrete with sand, substandard Reo, etc.”
413
Did you really write that?
90
substandard reo,
You mean from China, instead of quality Aussie steel once from Newcastle?
60
That’s another important point, but he was write for a change.
Very out of character. Maybe it’s been taken over by a right wing ai bot.
10
At least its more reasonable than blaming “climate change™” ! 🙂
00
My geologist wife took me out for a day inspecting country bridges in NSW some years ago. Under the unnoticed concrete and tar that you zip across at 100kph is a set of wooden legs with wooden railway sleepers as a deck, the ‘road’ laid over the top.
It will be like the electrical infrastructure, Govt will not pay to upgrade it for their madness until it fails, there will be a much-publicised announcement of billions being set aside to fix the whole thing, then slowly one by one they will do something.
110
Chuckle, have you ever tried to cut an old railway sleeper with, well, anything !
So long as it hasn’t decayed, it is one really tough and resilient material.
10
In the People’s Undemocratic Republik of Vicdanistan (Australia) led by Australia’s worst Marxist, they actually managed to do something right, just once.
EV owners get a $100 registration discount but have to pay 2.6c per km road usage charge for EVs and 2.1c per km for plug in hybrids.
I guess it partly makes up for the lack of fuel taxes collected.
It must have been implemented by a rare case of a public serpent who had the initiative to think independently. It wouldn’t have been proposed by any of Dan’s Marxist Elites.
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/registration-fees/zlev-road-user-charge
91
Yes, that was a real oddity. It copped quite a bit or criticism from the Battery Powered Vehicle (BPV) sector at the time. I wouldn’t be surprised if the decision is reversed in coming years -probably by an LNP government!!!!
50
“probably by an LNP government!!!!”
I don’t think that is likely to happen… like, ever.
Have to get an LNP government in VicDanistan, first !
10
Francis Menton compares the Auto industry’s suicide wish to the mass cult suicide in Jonestown Guyana in 1978.
He lists a number of clueless EV startups and their huge losses. Then he lists some of the billions $ losses of the major auto makers trying to crawl to their govts and switch to the EV lunacy. I’ve made a personal pledge to never buy an EV and I’m very happy with my cheap reliable SUV. If I have to buy another car it’ll be another new or second hand ICE car. No ifs no buts ever.
https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2023-5-5-the-auto-industry-in-jonestown
110
And we now see, just as in Jonestown, all the people charged with decision making on our behalf have drunk the Koolaid. We wouldn’t even be discussing any of this nonsense if they could be convinced that the entire CO2 scam is just that. A new approach is urgently required by the rational thinking side before it gets to the stage of a modern day peasant’s revolt.
40
I agree Neville. I predict that EV sales will fail in the not too distant future, for several reasons…the penny will drop that they are simply a non required answer to a non problem, the cost of energy to charge them and the insurance costs and inconveince as they are banned from being taken on boats, trains and living in your garage attached to your house. Likeiwse, I have no interest in ever owning one.
00
The whole problem of discussing the scientific, technical and engineering realities of topics such as the above with Leftists is that a vast majority have never studied such topics and have no clue whatsoever. They wouldn’t even be able to tell you off-hand about the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide (what they call “carbon” (sic)).
Rather they go to a dumbed-down “university” and study nonsense like “gender theory”, “queer theory”, “critical race theory”, “gender studies”, “climate change”, etc..
These people are utterly useless and are only good for jobs in politics or the public “service” which they now dominate or a life on welfare. And they are destroying Australia and Western Civilisation in general.
Example: https://arts.unimelb.edu.au/asia-institute/discipline-areas/gender-studies
160
These “graduates” are also profoundly anti-intellectual and arrogant, and far worse things as well.
70
Then I guess I couldnt interest you in a degree from Stanford:
https://genderedinnovations.stanford.edu
00
Our test case idiocy on King Island is performing at its worst this morning, as usual.
Wind is chaotic, solar SFA, battery nix, but Diesel is the big winner AGAIN.
And if you owned an EV on King island it would be charged using diesel most of the time.
What a stupid farce.
https://www.hydro.com.au/clean-energy/hybrid-energy-solutions/success-stories/king-island
120
It is an ideal smaller-scale experiment for the mainland.
If it can’t work in the one place it might possibly work, right in the “roaring forties”, why does anyone, present thinking people excepted, think it can work anywhere else?
110
Drive most areas of remote Australian country and electricity is generated on site with diesel fuelled generators and I am amused when I occasionally read an enthusiast report on driving an EV around Australia or centre country that the author apparently cannot understand that the EV was most often indirectly using fossil fuels even when grid electricity was supplied.
100
Perhaps if we undertook relentless pushing of the failure of the King Island experiment to our local representatives with constant email updates of the non-performance the penny might begin to drop as they realise the dismal future which lies ahead for not only we serfs, but them and their families as well.
90
Neville, I know you and a couple of other correspondents like to highlight King Island as the experiment. But isn’t South Australia a better real world experiment for intermittents? The crow eaters have no local coal power generation, have a much bigger proportion of solar/wind than other states plus need both gas powered generation and diesel as back up. Plus the interconnector to Victoria. It’s as real as you are going to get. What you observe from South Australia is their reliance on gas, diesel and the interconnector. So, not much different to King Island but on a much larger scale.
80
I was amused when discussion about refitting RAN Collins Class Submarines in SA and afterwards building the yet to be designed next generation Nuclear Submarine for all three AUKUS partners turned to the SA Government installing more diesel fuelled generators to support the dockyard with back up electricity supply.
80
I recall that some years ago the federal government already gave the Australian Submarine Corporation some large amount of taxpayer money ($20 million?) for diesel generators.
The reason is that once you start a submarine hull weld, or any other critical weld of any kind, you can’t stop it or the weld is ruined. You can do that on wind power or unicorn f*rts.
Leftists are too ignorant of science and engineering matters to understand this.
90
Sentence was meant to read:
You CAN’T do that on wind power or unicorn f*rts.
40
Hmm! Perhaps the weight and dimensions of the car need a little perspective.
I saw the image of the Corolla and it brought back fond memories.
My first car, December 9th 1969, was a white Totyota Corolla SE, the last model with the 1100cc engine, brand spanking new off the showroom floor at Grand Motors Labrador in Queensland and cost $1149.00. When compared to the image shown, (and that image is of the model before mine) the only visible difference was the grille, and I didn’t have the wing mirrors, and only the two door version came to Australia.
In the three months leading up to that, there was an internal debate. I really wanted, and I mean really wanted, and I still do today, a 1966 Holden HR Premier X2 Sedan, and a year later, they changed the designator from X2 to 186S, so the engine was what was later to become 3048cc.
The end result was the Corolla, and even then, it was the fuel consumption that sold it for me. The white Corolla.
Scroll forwards 54 years to right now, and I own a 2018 Corolla Sedan, and every time I get into it now, after two years ownership, I think ….. Hmm, this car is surprisingly large for what is purported to still be a ….. Corolla, the thinking being ….. a small car.
Okay then as I mentioned above ….. some perspective.
1966 HR Holden X2 Premier Weight 1178Kg Height 1486mm Width 1778mm Length 4569mm
2018 Toyota Corolla Sedan Weight 1280Kg Height 1460mm Width 1776mm Length 4620mm
My Corolla now is the same size as that HR Holden, which at the time of release in 1966 was in fact a large family car.
Cars have just gotten bigger over the years. I look back at that 1969 Corolla now, two and a half feet shorter and just a tick over HALF the weight of my 2018 Corolla, and I wonder how I ever drove something so small.
I racked up 115,000 miles (184,000Km) in that little Corolla in just 42 Months, and averaged 42MPG (5.6 litres/100Km) across the life of the car. Fuel was three cents a gallon cheaper on the RAAF Bases than at any other service station, and someone would come out and fill up your tank for you, while you (the driver) checked the oil and the tyres. With that Corolla, it was a case of, ‘Yeah, thanks mate, fill it up or Two dollars worth, whichever comes first’, and that was for an eight gallon tank, with fuel costing 29 cents per gallon.
A new Tesla weighs a tick less than THREE of those 1969 Corollas.
Age adds perspective.
Tony.
170
I had a 1967 HR Holden I inherited as part of a deceased estate and in excellent condition inside and out, 130,000 miles driven since new, I eventually sold it to an enthusiast.
Your size comparison is interesting, a major reason is the excessive engine compartment area, the six cylinder engine was easily accessible from both sides. And the luggage compartment had far more capacity than a Corolla.
Just commenting.
70
My first car was a 1961 EK Holden- it weighed approximately 1100 kg- 1.1 tonne, which is really a lightweight compared to BPV’s. Great fuel economy, huge space inside, really reliable, easy to service/ fix and could do 100 km/hr. Safety features – not good, but if you drove carefully it was OK. Never had an accident in 4 years. If you did a comparative spreadsheet with modern cars, old “Ekky”, still stacks up pretty well.
70
Makes you wonder, doesn’t it? Imagine if you produced a similar chassis/body to all those early model Aussie made cars- so Holdens/Fords/Valiants. So, same size, bench seats with updated safety features/ powertrain (still ICE) plus emission controls and then shed weight by replacing steel with plastics and aluminium. You’d get a very useable, cheap and economical vehicle that would still appeal to a lot of drivers. In fact, that theoretical vehicle would probably outsell BPV’s easily and just to get really fantastical, be locally made. There’s some real “retro” right there.
20
Sorry about the sound quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGKX6wxoMOA
10
2023 Toyota Camry and 2022 Tesla Model 3 Specifications
Model Year 2023 2022
Model Toyota Camry Tesla Model 3
Engine
Transmission
Drivetrain
Body 4dr Sedan 4dr Sedan
Difference
Wheelbase 2,824 mm 2,875 mm 0 mm
Length 4,879 mm 4,694 mm 0 mm
Width 1,839 mm 1,849 mm 0 mm
Height 1,445 mm 1,443 mm 0 mm
Curb Weight 1,501 kg 1,625 kg 0 kg
Fuel Capacity 60 L 0 L 60 L
00
I read recently that driven sensibly, maintained to manufacturer’s recommended service intervals, and regardless of recommendation for diesel engines change the engine oil and filter every 10,000 kilometres, and 500,000 kilometres should be a minimum operational life expectation. Since Covid pandemic my 2017 4WD diesel has averaged 25,000 kilometres a year but earlier I travelled extensively and the previous 4WD had just over 200,000 kilometres of driving in just over four years. Obviously aiming to keep the present vehicle for twenty years from purchasing it new would not be a problem if I did that.
On the other hand an EV, and apart from a Tesla SUV AWD valued new at almost three times what I paid for my vehicle there are few choices for an EV replacement in Australia.
And no way could I keep one for twenty years, with a battery pack warranty period of eight years and maybe with reduced range capacity ten to twelve years could be achieved, the EV would be worthless as a trade-in. So after paying more than twice the retail price for EV compared to ICEV and the EV having a lower towing capacity, much lower range with or lower range without trailer load, and the inconvenience of battery recharging and planning not to exceed 80 per cent fast charge to avoid damaging the battery pack etc., as a country district resident EV is not in my future plans.
100
My 1993 2.8 ltr diesel hilux has done over 1.1000,000klms. and yes it has had some maintenance. A replacement set of injectors (twice) a fuel pump rebuild and a suspension rebuild. Thats about it. Oils and filters changed meticulously. This truck has done an absolute power of rough country work, kids drove it and now the grandkids, sure its tired doesn’t like being driven fast on the highway and if you dont apply the hand brake it will walk down hill but its well and truly road worthy and still does rough work in remote country. Youngest grand daughter wants it when she gets her license in a couple of years. I keep telling her its a toss up whether grand dad or his old red truck will “cross over” “ first. A working life impossible to achieve with anything electric.
100
Have you noticed that most people promoting the anthropogenic global warming fraud are either paid propagandadists for the government or have no legitimate science knowledge/degree, are useful idiots of Leftist Elites or all of those things OR, MOST IMPORTANTLY, are making vast amounts of money from it?
180
Yes! I certainly had noticed all that.
70
Indeed. I tried to watch frozen planet last night, but to turn off as that TV producer Attenborough wouldn’t stop rabbiting on about the end of the world is nigh. Then there’s Al Gore, a lawyer and failed politician; Greta Thunberg, a truant from year 10; Tim Flannery, a mammalogist plus an Arts degree I think; Leonardo Di Caprio, stopped school at about Year 10 level like Greta; King Charles, who knows what his quals are, but they definitely aren’t scientific, and so on.
80
Companies that transport cars by road will also have major problems as the extra weight of the batteries may place them at risk of being overweight, particularly the weight permitted on individual axles. I f they end up having to put less vehicles on each load it will result in more trucks on the road – another EV win for the environment!
130
Blackout Bowen has been involved in promoting a Chinese made EV crew cab ute recently, no acknowledgement of that ute being considerably heavier than an equivalent petrol or diesel engine ute, or that the legal load capacity is lower after battery pack weight is taken into account than the ICEV equivalents, and therefore towing capacity lower.
The typical tradies ute has aluminium lockable boxes containing many tools, load racks and ladders, and are fully loaded all the time.
So after paying a premium price for an EV and considering the driving inconveniences of range and recharging, future trade-in value or scrap value if battery pack is needing replacement, Blackout Bowen is in fantasy land.
80
I read about a prototype EV prime mover with removable/replaceable battery pack claimed to be a 20 minute changeover time. I think the range was estimated at 300 kilometres on a full charge.
What about reduced cargo payload and profitability for heavy transport firms?
80
So add 20 mins of a technician’s time [$25 min.] to the charge cost.
Only possible in a fleet setting anyway.
60
With a well designed swappable battery system a changeover should need no more than two minutes including the paperwork.
11
A 300km range for a prime mover would make it virtually useless in Oz. Most of the load capacity would be needed for backup batteries.
40
Thinks: Cairns to Brisbane would have stops at
Ingham
Townsville
Bowen
Mackay
Marlborough
Rockhampton
Congratulations, you only have 520 ks to go.
BTW All these charge stops would show as driving time in the driver’s log book, I assume.
70
There is also the issue of probable higher injury and damage in accidents.
My recent costs for ‘minor’ damage was over $1,000 for relatively small dents and I was able to drive it to the panel beater.
Add 1/2 tonne to a vehicle hitting a pedestrian/cyclist and expect worse injuries.
80
My thoughts as well. The BPV’s (EV’s) in theory should inflict more damage in both pedestrian and car to car accidents, compared to ICE vehicles. Even with collision avoidance tech, accidents still happen. But, we would need to have a higher % of BPV’s on the road to truly measure and so the proponents of these vehicles could always hide behind the stats.
60
A couple of days ago here, someone linked to a repair on a big EV, maybe a Lightening, that cost US$42,000 to repair what was originally estimated to be $1,600.
I can only assume that the sub-chassis is so light [to save weight to extend range] that it simply crumbled. What with fires, minor damage to battery packs forcing write-off and this, they are going to be expensive to insure. If your EV burns three others at the charger, does your insurer pay for the lot?
Will they be banned from the Chunnel and Alpine tunnels eventually?
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A “stealth job” –
A heavier, more silent projectile?
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Note that all EV and Hybrids are now required by law to display a blue sticker on the front and rear registration number plates to alert road traffic authorities and fire brigade that Lithium ion batteries are on board in case of collision or other fire hazard.
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To which part of The Realm does this apply? A lot of hybrid batteries are not Li-ion, so don’t present as a fire hazard.
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https://www.mynrma.com.au/cars-and-driving/electric-vehicles/owning/ev-number-plates
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There is only way out of this never ending onslaught & that’s your vote. Problem there is there’s no workable political party in Australia worth voting for unless of course you’re a single mother with another on the way or a “ couldn’t be bothered to work “ voter.
Labor is captive to the woke left/gang greens, the coalition is riddled with gutless would be conservatives who’re too scared to voice an opinion or offend someone & “ should be Laborites “
Anybody else have a solution??
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There are a number of rational minor parties such as UAP, Liberal Democrats, PHON etc. that are worth supporting. All have at least one member in Federal or State Parliaments.
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UAP, Liberal Democrats, PHON etc…….trouble with that is Preferential voting system, you don’t know which party is going to benefit from your vote!
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Main Road bridges are designed for 48 tonne trucks
Most minor bridges for a lessor truck but still quite a load and shouldn’t be a problem.
General carparks were designed for 3.0 Kpa and point loads etc but at some point that was reduced to 2.5 Kpa.
The 2.5 Carparks may have a problem, certainly need to be reviewed.
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Houses 1.5 kPa
Flats, apartments, motel bedrooms 2.0 kPa
Offices 3.0 kPa
Workshops 5.0 kPa
Parking, vehicle > 2.5 t 5.0 kPa
Hospitals, school assembly areas with fixed seating 3.0 kPa
Dance halls, bars, lounges 5.0 kPa
The list is here in https://emedia.rmit.edu.au/dlsweb/Toolbox/buildright/content/bcgbc4010a/01_loads_loading/01_primary_loads/page_003.htm
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The Talpiot wedding dance floor collapse and the Maccabiah bridge collapse are instructive examples of loadings exceeding supporting structures. Dodgy engineering.
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Maccabiah bridge was designed to be load limited, to save money but on the day of the games they forgot, and it was over loaded. Massed pedestrian loads are quite high and harmonic vibrations on bridges can be devastating.
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A better reference is AS1170.1 Loads for buildings and AS5100 Bridge design.
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My first car was a 1972 Toyota Corona. Great car, shame about the rust.
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also ev fires in basements of apartment buildings will happen.
Imagine 20 teslas going up
Will kill many and collapse buildings
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I repeated these claims to a mainstream friend. He challenged my numbers.
So, for what it’s worth: average weight of a car- 1600 kg
Average weight of an electric vehicle – 1940 kg
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