Wrecking the roads to save the nation from 0.01 degree C?
Electric cars may cause twice as much damage to roads as normal petrol driven cars.
EV’s are heavier, and heavier cars may break bridges and car parks, they wear out tyres 50% faster, increasing pollution, they will cause more road deaths (of other people in smaller cars), and now, they probably wear out roads faster too.
Did anyone think about the carbon emissions of new asphalt and new road surfaces?
Major roads are built to take heavier trucks, but suburban streets were only designed to cope with the occasional truck — not the truck that lives next door. When every car has 300 kilograms more “luggage” there will be consequences.
And remember underlying all this, no one even knows if EV’s will reduce carbon dioxide. An e-Golf has to be driven 100,000 kilometers just to break even with a diesel equivalent. With all these extra lifetime costs, if carbon dioxide mattered at all, EV’s might end up raising global temperatures. But who cares about that eh?
It’s not about carbon, and it’s not about the environment. It’s about control.
Thanks to Tallbloke
Pothole damage from electric cars is double that of petrol, Telegraph data show
Jack Simpson, The Telegraph
The country is suffering from a pothole crisis, with half as many filled last year compared to a decade ago amid an estimated £12 billion price tag to fill them all.
The Telegraph found that the average electric car puts 2.24 times more stress on roads than its petrol equivalent, and 1.95 more than diesel. Larger electric vehicles weighing over 2,000kg (2 tons) cause the most damage, with 2.32 times more wear applied to roads.
The AA reported last month that the number of pothole-related call-outs it had received had grown by a third in a year, with the company responding to 52,000 incidents in April alone.
A little bit of weight creates bigger better holes in the road:
Fourth power formula
The analysis uses the “fourth power formula”, which is widely used by highways engineers and researchers to assess the damage caused to road surfaces by heavier vehicles. It means that if weight on a vehicle’s axle is doubled, it does 16 times the damage to the road.
Cut the subsidies, recover fair costs, and the free market will sort this one out.
Potholes photo: David Wright Creative Commons 2.0
More destruction caused by misguided “green” policies with no prior analysis of the likely consequences.
321
Where is the data comparing “petrol equivalent” EVs weights ??
We have had this discussion before and i have shown that this belief of EV excess weights is just another myth.
EG .. Teslas heaviest 2400 kg Model X weighs no more than most “equivalent” 7 seat ICE SUVs.
And please remember that nearly all city and residential streets are pounded every day by delivery vans and trucks, garbage collection trucks.
Most observational people realise that road condition is directly related to wet weather and the willingness of local Authorities to construct and repair roads properly !
It seems that it is the cheapest contract that gets to build and repair roads…..badly !
42
Not so. My Kia Sorento (Diesel), weighs 1,985 kg. Significantly less than your Tesla. It is also substantially more spacious; I’ve seen these subsidy suckers driving around and they aren’t very large.
00
Of course, the ultimate objectives of the Regressives and Elites is to get most cars off the road anyway as they hate the personal freedom provided to non-Elites/serfs by private motor vehicles.
This is one of the reasons they want to constrain non-Elites into “15 minute cities”.
Also, the damaging effects of EVs might be used to their advantage and used as the excuse to ban private cars (except for Elites).
330
Just heard from my sister in Bogota, Colombia, that they are already restricted to using a car 3 days a week depending on the last number of your numberplate.
71
What justification are they using for that restriction Brenda?
30
Not sure, I’ll write and ask, only heard yesterday.
11
Traffic control I would say. Singapore did that decades ago I believe.
30
I seem to remember that it was done in the UK in the 60’s and I cannot remember why. I was working in London at the time and I think it was to do with trying to reduce traffic jams. Even last number one day, odd number the next.
Or was it in Sydney? Age is catching up with me!
20
Greece did it in Athens in the 1970s…
..to reduce pollution and trafic jams.
20
Whenever there was an oil tanker driver strike or a shortage of fuel In Victoria we always went to that odd/evens number plate system to buy fuel. But it was counterproductive and just created even more panic buying. Bit like COVID toilet paper, “I might not need it, but hell let’s buy some anyway”. The last one I can remember was probably mid 1990’s.
10
That’s Odd, Peter, I cannot Even remember that in the UK at all, was it maybe just in London? Only ever became aware of such a scheme in really recent times … Europe somewhere, perhaps. Did go out and check our Plate – now it’s all just Letters.( in the UK )
20
In the Gulf oil crisis of late 1973 we had driving days alternate for odds and evens in West Germany as was. In England it was an upper speed restriction of 50mph.
00
I had petrol ration books issued – but I dont think we ever had to use them!
00
I doubt it was London as there is northing in the legislation that would permit this.
10
It was more likely because of the fuel shortages then.
00
And most of the non-thinking community don’t realise that EVs are primarily manufactured using fossil fuel produced energy and primarily run on electricity produced by fossil fuels.
341
Don’t kid yourself, they know.
20
Srsly? Engineers design roads to cope with axel loads far higher than EV’s, or even RAM utes. Water is a far more common problem, as evidenced by your photo.
PS the road in engineering speak is the bit under the black stuff which is known as the wearing surface, or ‘the roof’ is you like analogies
628
Oh yeah?
Most of the roads where the potholes are forming
are in the local streets where they aren’t made to cope with heavy stuff..
You know, like semis and other large trucks and Battery operated vehicles.
EV is a misnomer.
211
Truck tyres are larger in diameter and wider. This gives more area to spread the load
10
Peter, it is true roads are designed to tolerate higher loads. But they are also designed to tolerate a certain number of different types of loads. The higher the frequency of loading of the more wear on the roads. See Jo’s comments.
What is different is that EVs cause an increase in the average load for passenger vehicles. Under the 4th power law even an increase of vehicle weight of 30% will cause 2.8 times more damage than a similar internal combustion vehicle.
232
David…. Which EVs are 30% heavier than either their equivalent ICE counterpart ?….
…….let alone the current flavour of school/shopping run SUVs ?
00
Sorry another ‘Red’ for you.
The explanation is simple, more weight equals more force equals more wear (equals more holes)
Consider the effects of acceleration and retardation, both of which occurr chiefly at bends, junctions and intersections, and this is where the holes are (and also holes will always fill with water)
Electric cars will cause disproportionate wear . .
241
It reminds me of a road safety ad which went, “He’s not tired, he’s not drunk, he’s trying to avoid the potholes”. I could point out numerous roads that have deteriorated less than a year after being resurfaced; poor engineering in some cases, but so far little evidence of EV’s adding to the problem on our rural network.
70
my WWII ETO Combat Engineer father marveled at the German roads.They were bedded and surfaced to last while ours are done poorly due to cost and time restraints.
I worked at a defense plant in Quality Control for a time and the old timers used to comment on rejection rates
“Production never has the time nor money to do it right but they always have plenty of time and money to do it over”
190
And in the behaviour of the EV drivers themselves. Their greatest desire is the rapid acceleration that an EV gives.
Mass AND velocity squared.
O/T but are there many EVs on the highways and freeways?
Coming out of Adelaide (not downthere there much these days) I have only seen one Tesla who got off at Stirling. About 10 km.
100
And a red for you also,..unless you can show Electric cars are heavier tha equivalent ICE versions ? ( rather than just repeating this internet myth !)
And… how about comparing the number of”heavy” EVs (2000+kg) to the number of 2000+kg ICEs ?🤔
11
Chad, this may or may not be of interest to you.
A study by a team from The University of Leeds (UK) was published in October 2021.
Two excerpts from the paper re method:
“Various types of ICEV-EV pairs were selected.”
“For each pair of selected either petrol or diesel passenger cars and equivalent EVs, their output power was matched within 15%.”
Ok.. In part 3.1 of the link below, there is a comprehensive table comparing the equivalent EV/ICE weights.
Titled: (3.1. Weight evaluation of EVs and ICEVs)
Link:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304389421015910?via%3Dihub
Note that the researchers state:
“Beddows and Harrison (2020) reported that the electrification of passenger cars caused a 300 kg increase in vehicle average mass, and the percentage increase was 21%.
In the present study, the average weight difference for all the vehicle samples is 282 kg with a corresponding increase of 20%, in agreement with the preceding literature data.”
Hope this helps.
10
Thanks William,
That confirms my suspicion as to the validity (not!) of the data ..!
Not wishing to waste time crosschecking the list they compiled , i randomly picked a few i have mentioned before…
1) the Hyundai Kona Ev at 1535 kg and their comparison with the base 1.0 GDi at 1280kg…..BUT,..why didnt the compare to the 1504kg Kona 1.6 DCT. ??
2 ) VW iD4 at 1605 kg, compared to a VW Polo at 1355 kg ….?
Why ? The polo is a much smaller car ! . A better size comparison would be a VW Tiguan ICE which can weigh over 1800 kg
So anyway, knowing some of their reference data is incorrect (wildly biased and wrong !) , i cannot trust any of it !
Flawed data is not a valid reference..and biased data is stupid !
00
In QLD at least, our roadbuilders failed roads 101, I don’t think they realise that trucks use our roads.
The bit underneath is the important part, but it gets done with a minimum of care and once it settles slightly, the asphalt cracks letting water soak into the roadbase, then the pounding of tyres opens up a pothole.
170
Really, perhaps there’s a disconnect betwixt the drawing board and the asphalt.
30
FYI.
Data Shows Incredible Way Electric Vehicles Create Double the Pothole Damage Than Gas Cars
https://www.westernjournal.com/data-shows-incredible-way-electric-vehicles-create-double-pothole-damage-gas-cars/
Study Shows Electric Vehicles Cause Significantly More Road Damage Than Gas Powered Vehicles
https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/study-electric-vehicles-cause-significantly-road-damage-gas-powered-vehicles
(and the cartoons are worth a look as well. )
50
Lance..
Both of those linked articles refer to the same study from Leeds university UK.
Please take the time to find the vehicle weight comparisons they used.
The same 300+kg or 30% figure keeps showing up with NO actual references to verify it
I call BS….. as i do with most “University” sourced scare reports.
(Remember these are the same people who believe in AGW !)
22
A further consideration is that as the economy continues to be strangled by parasitic “green” wind and solar (as is the plan), economic output will continue to decline meaning that there will be fewer and fewer taxes to pay to repair road damage. So roads will continue to deteriorate.
181
Don’t forget that in the UK EVs don’t pay road tax (it is collected via an added tax on fossil fuels) which is used for road maintenance.
100
In the UK potholes have been a major problem for years. All taxation goes into a general bucket, there is no ring fencing for specific areas like road maintenance. After nearly 13 years of carefully managed decline the tories have managed to trash the UK and plunder and sell off all its resources. There is no money for infrastructure. EVs are the latest example of incompetent, stupidity and corruption to be mandated on the public. It can be safely guaranteed that the condition of the roads will not improve as the mentally deficient, well off, middle classes move to overweight, pimped, golf buggies. Anyway, where you all going to be driving to ?
30
Incorrect. There is road tax AND masses of tax on fuel, and the battery cars pay neither as yet. The problem with lack of fuel tax income is pushing along the introduction of charging per mile which will make use more expensive – which may be the idea anyway according to the World Empire of Fascism plan.
A factor in road damage not mentioned much is speed. One of the fastest heavy vehicles on the road is an empty tipper truck. Due to an embankment collapse, my road suffered a month of tipper trucks going up laden and speeding back empty, followed by the reverse. The road actually subsided at the edge in a few places with the constant pounding.
10
You misunderstand. Yes, there is Road Tax, and yes, there is fuel duty. My point is that those monies go into the general taxation pot. They are not ring fenced for motoring support, ie. fixing pot holes. The government is free to spend that money on whatever it chooses. So, yes the EV fools do not pay road tax or fuel tax. However, although ICE drivers do pay those taxes it does not necessarily go towards roads. Gordon Brown broke that link.
At some point, in the near future, the government will start taxing EV drivers appropriately, at that point EV sales will drop.
20
Ha ha ha
The “Greenies” have dun it agin.
90
Is this now the David Maddison comments show?…………..LOL
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The simple solution is to charge EV owners a higher level of road tax when they register their vehicle each year.
240
EV owners freeload off the rest of us and pay very little if any road tax and of course no fuel duty.
190
just another example of regressive taxation. The people who can’t afford EVs pay the road taxes for those who can.
100
Plus a virtue signalling levy. Say, 100 dollar.
110
Is there anything about their so called green energy transition that makes any sense at all, or doesn’t cost 2 to 3 times more than fossil fuel energy or petrol or diesel vehicles etc?
And the TOXIC environmental cost of EVs or W & S etc covers everything above and below the ground, plus offshore Wind + the extra potholes to increase the death toll on our roads.
Anyway who’d be stupid enough to pay at least double the price for a tiny Nissan Leaf that is useless if you want to tow a caravan or a trailer or a boat?
And what do you do when the heavy battery has to be replaced and the value of this tiny EV drops to SFA?
200
“if you want to tow a caravan or a trailer or a boat?”
how selfish! Get with the program!
don’t you know many people cannot afford such luxuries?
/s just in case.
like the old Russian tale – ” kill my neighbor’s cow!”
60
A while back there was a mention on Small Dead Animals that one Canadian province was implementing a “de-bitumening program”
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More gory details about all of their so called green energy and why it’s really just a super expensive and ongoing TOXIC disaster.
And trying to make dangerous, super expensive hydrogen efficiently is definitely a mission impossible using TOXIC W or S.
https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2023-6-26-still-waiting-for-the-magical-future-of-free-wind-power
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In my very Blue US city, they seem to be allowing the roads to deteriorate purposely.
Pot holes, and the constant repurposing of road lanes to bike lanes (which bike riders seldom use) signals the anti-personal transportation agenda.
(Curious, the roads surrounding the nearby elite Uni are pristine.)
The biggest impact is and will be skyrocketing food prices, as delivery become evermore expensive and inconvenient.
Ask yourself, if humans damage the planet, then the planet saviors must expunge humans.
Stop fertilizer, kill cows, make food unaffordable.
Is it not clear yet?
171
The planet will be fine, it’s the humans that need to worry, after all the planet’s been around for 4.5 billion years.
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One of our regular correspondents will be along shortly to say you are all wrong and EVs are no heavier than regular cars and its all a nonsense. I mean its obvious. A Tesla Y is 1997kg and a functionally comparable Subaru Crosstrek is 1454kg. So there!
70
All cars have just got heavier over the years. BPV’s will just exacerbate that stat. My first car in the 80’s was an EK Holden sedan, for its size it was a lightweight – 1121 kg!! ( and it had steel bumpers )
90
Morris Mini 850 came in at 630kg. They could seat four trim people in reasonable comfort and travelled 100km burning 7.1 litres of fuel. They could exceed the current maximum speed limit on Australia roads.
A single word describes BEVs – Behemoths. There is nothing “green” about these resource hungry monsters. The German’s make the worst of them. BMW i7 comes in at 2,715kg. Mercedes EQS 2680kg.
These are nothing more than high speed golf buggies unsuited to purposeful transport in Australia. Citreon had the right starting point with their AMI which weighs 430kg. If you are going to have a golf buggy, ditch the speed and make it useful for something other than posing in a driveway.
90
Yep agree. I’m keeping an eye on Toyota. I think they’re going to do the opposite to BPV’s, and quietly keep pushing hybrids. Maybe the Japanese government is not as “green” when it comes to vehicle production. A couple of years ago Toyota even ran a TV ad making fun of BPV’s- highlighting the tangle of electric cords etc, vs the ease of Hybrids. But it was dropped – maybe copped flak from other car producers?
60
Ross:
My first Corolla in 1975 was 660kg. and averaged 6.4 mileage.
My current Corolla (2018) is nearly twice as much weight but still the same mileage.
40
Hello, yes i am here, and have commented as requested above !
..Why are you comparing a $75k , 7 seat (optional) EV, …….to a $45k , 5seat, smaller (by 250mm) , ICE. ?
Hardly functionally the same, and definitely in a different sector of the market….price, performance, capacity.
10
I’m from the US so I’ll use the F150 as an example. The ICE versions weigh from 1824 to 2604 kgs. The F150 Lightning EV weigh from 2728 to 3127 kgs. So the lightest EV weighs 50% (904 kgs) more than the lightest ICE. For the heaviest the EV weighs 20% (523 kgs) more than the heaviest ICE. The lightest version of the EV is still 5% (124 kgs) heavier than heaviest ICE version. Those numbers are empty weights.
If you want a real beast, the Hummer EV weighs 4260 kgs, empty. Its battery alone weighs more than a Mazda Miata.
10
OK, but these are trucks, …. So load those suckers up !
The heavy ICE (2600kg) can carry 1500 kg .. so total 4100 kg
The heavy Lightening (3127kg) is limited to 1014 kg, total 4141 kg
Not much difference there now ?
(Less when you fill up the fuel tank on that ice !)
00
So it’s not just a Shaky Isles problem after all…
What with our one-and-only oil refinery closed and demolished last year; the Greens’ push for planet-friendly* bitumen mix; the Ministry of Truth’s Road To Zero PR campaign; rebates for wealthy city show-offs; university trained engineers with no real-world experience – let alone rain, earthquakes, trees, boulders, clay and schist soils to ruin a perfectly good day’s drive.
‘Moving forward’ is one of the greatest (read: sinister) terminologies of 21st century Doublethink.
150
Where’s the tar coming from when the last refinery shuts down, OZ is down to two.
Which is the more CO2 intensive, bitumen or concrete.
60
I assume they’ll be using lignin as an extender for bitumen for roads?
But why does New Zimbabwe need roads at all?
The Māori didn’t need roads or wheeled vehicles, why should the Pākehā?
71
Shipping without current fuels will be back to sailing with assistance from electric motors .You could use hydrogen for fuel but you would need a fleet of hydrogen tankers to supply “fuel” for that .Imagine what would happen if an electric car ignited while on a hydrogen powered ship ? As far as I know you can’t change the laws of phsyics . Fantasy meets reality .
130
There is nothing more hypocritical than driving a coal-powered EV.
161
Over the last three years I have frequently driven along the Goulburn Valley Highway and I have noticed that the potholes and repairs are mostly in the left hand lane in each direction, probably because that’s where most of the traffic drives, including the heavy trucks. So perhaps the heavier vehicles cause more damage.
60
Most dual carriageway roads, the left lane is the one to avoid, it is damaged and usually potholed.
40
Don’t forget about the tyres – EVs wear out tyres much quicker than their equivilant ICE versions, adding to particulate polution and waste, and of course dreaded CO2 emissions.
80
What is the formula for the weight of Electric vehicles? It used to be for Ice vehicles ” Every 60,000 cars over 1 Km road lose 1 Kg of tyre”
20
Jo, your text mentions a 300 kg EV battery but this is on the light side.
Actual figures for Tesla are:
Roadster: 992 lbs (450 kg)
Model 3 Standard Range: 1054 lbs (478 kg)
Model 3 Long Range: 1168 lbs (530 kg)
Model Y: 1168 lbs (530 kg)
Model S: 1377 lbs (625 kg)
Tesla’s 100 kWh battery packs typically weigh around 1,300 pounds or 590 kg.
That’s the equivalent of 8 people of 75 kg each.
100
Ken, the discussion is about the difference in rolling vehicle weights, not just the battery.
00
The Romans built roads that lasted a thousand years, then came the engineers, and gave us roads full of potholes.
100
A road mostly walked on? Perhaps a horse and cart. Relatively light weight. Good point supporting 4th power math.
12
Actually very little surface remains from back then but the road route remains as it is generally the shortest distance from A to B, and farms and villages are in place that access them. Thus the route persists.
If you want to experience how a roman road might have felt for a modern vehicle, check out sections of the Paris-Roubaix.
43
Roman roads were built from blocks of stone, like cobbles.
10
Not buying this one, even though I think EV’s are ridiculous in many other ways (their monstrous weight being one of them in the way it affects driveability).
Your average car has practically zero effect on road wear. It’s heavy vehicles that cause the damage (and water pooling), which is one of the main reasons for axle load limits. Road designers don’t even take light vehicle wear into account (at least that’s what we were taught at uni many years ago). So 2 times nothing is still nothing.
31
If road designers don’t take light vehicles into account, why am I required to make an allowance for multiple car trips per day per house in a street instead of simply not allowing anything or just allowing one car or one trip?
It’s true that the construction traffic allowance (house building material deliveries etc for the initial housing estate road use) and garbage truck road use on these residential streets has the majority contribution to determining the depth or make-up of the pavement. But the “light vehicle” use does contribute. When the “light vehicle” becomes less “light” it’s going to contribute more.
There is no doubt that that adding 25% or more weight to passenger vehicles (electric volvo xc40 is 450kg heavier than IC version) is going to increase surface wear on streets and any weak points that develop (either by poor drainage or heavy vehicle use) is going to be exacerbated by the increased passenger vehicle weight.
20
I dont know whereyou source your data from, but it is not from Volvo..
XC40 Recharge EV…curb weight 2150 kg
https://www.volvocars.com/en-ca/support/car/xc40-recharge-pure-electric/20w37/article/956a2019a04fa6b1c0a801511b7f732c
XC40 ICE, curb weight ..1573 – 2184kg (depending on engine & transmission )
https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/models/xc40/2022/specifications
20
Got it here
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/07/business/electric-vehicles-weight/index.html
Based on the figures you quote with a weight range 1573kg to 2184kg it’s entirely possible the “about 1000 pounds more” figure is from Volvo.
Would need to know what components make that range and how similar the components are to the EV for each of the weight upper and lower ranges.
21
Strop, Sure if you want to pick the lightest possible ICE model !..
…but is that really an honest comparison ?
..all you actually need to know is that there is an ICE XC40 that weighs MORE than the EV version of the same vehicle !
AND, there will likely be more of those ice versions on the roads !
This whole debate is so dumb when there are MANY MILLIONS of ICE vehicles weighing more and hugely outnumbering the few thousand heaviest EVs !
10
I don’t know what they picked and how the car components compare. Maybe it isn’t fair. So let’s forget I quoted the specific vehicle mentioned in that article. Let’s just look at it on general principle. EV’s are generally notably heavier than their ICE equivalents.
Here’s a pro green site that says “Current EVs generally weigh hundreds if not thousands more pounds than comparable internal-combustion vehicles due to heavy battery packs, and that might compromise road safety.”
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1137033_will-the-extra-weight-of-evs-vs-ice-vehicles-worsen-road-safety
Some vehicle comparisons (I don’t know if the comparisons are fair. I’m just providing the link)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353150136/figure/tbl1/AS:1083719980982273@1635390386204/Weight-comparison-between-various-types-of-diesel-ICE-passenger-cars-and-corresponding.png
If you agree that EV’s generally weigh more than their ICE equivalent then please consider that the push toward EV’s over ICE vehicles will reverse the situation you describe above. It doesn’t make sense to say this is a dumb debate with ICE vehicles outweighing EV’s outnumbering EV’s, because the green aim is to have EV’s outnumber ICE vehicles (including heavy vehicles) and that’s the point.
21
So why keep repeated linking to data that youhave not checked ?
It should be obvious that i do not accept the generalisation of EVs being significantly heavier than the vehiclesthey are replacing.
And whilst the “intention” is to replace all ice’s, ….i also do not agree that is going to happen any time soon …within the next 20-30 years,..if ever !
……More tothe point of this thread, currently there just are not enough EVs on the road to make an impact on road condition…..compared to the number of heavier utes, SUVs, vans etc..
Hence ,…FAKE NEWS !
11
Yes, it is. Unfortunately.
I looked at your volvo data link. Each car is given exactly the same weight range. 1573 to 2184. Odd don’t you think that various models, including the hybrid types, all have the exact same weight range? It appears that Volvo has simply put the lowest weight of the XC40 and the highest weight of the XC40 under each model. The petrol models are at the lower end of that range.
The point is, the green aim is to replace those vehicles with heavier type EV equivalents. I appreciate you don’t think that will happen. But the issues with such proposals need to be brought up so that the idea of those proposals don’t gain too much momentum. We have a govt pushing along to renewables without addressing the practicalities and at the 2019 election the same mob were talking about targets and mandates for EV’s.
This article isn’t saying that EV’s are currently destroying our roads and that ICE vehicles aren’t. It’s pointing out that with present technology there is a problem with the idea of pushing ahead with replacing ICE with EV and weight is one of those considerations and negatives.
I know you don’t accept that EV’s are heavier than their equivalent ICE vehicles. I know you don’t think it will happen that EV’s will replace the ICE fleets. But the issues with the concept need to be highlighted so silly ideas don’t just become accepted and we’re lumped with impractical mandates and legislation. We’re already lumped with legislation about emissions targets that won’t be and can’t be achieved. But doesn’t mean the govt won’t try and ruin us trying to do the impossible.
10
Which third-world country is that photograph from? The budget has money for road signs, not so much for the road.
20
Rural UK.
30
“(at least that’s what we were taught at uni many years ago).”
What you were taught at uni and what happens in the real world is poles apart.
I saw this firsthand in the hydrocarbon industry.
21
Nope. Still find all that knowledge useful thirty years later.
20
Taught by aging professors 20 years behind the times.
21
As Tom Lehrer put it –
“Ivy covered professors in ivy covered halls”
60
..as compared to current university prof’s teaching how Fossil fuels/ Carbon are destroying the Planet ?👍👍
10
Meanwhile – Report: Republican Lawmakers Concerned Biden Wind Farm Projects Will Affect U.S. Military Operations
Republican lawmakers and experts are calling on the Biden administration to put an “immediate moratorium” on offshore wind development until its effects on U.S. military operations, navigation, and radar systems are studied, according to a report.
Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ) told Fox News that during a three-hour long meeting with federal watchdog agency Government Accountability Office (GAO) officials, industry stakeholders, and experts earlier this week, concerns about the projects’ impact on military operations were discussed for more than an hour.
Smith represents a district along the Atlantic coast home to a Naval Weapons Station Earle and Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst where wind projects have been proposed.
The GAO recently agreed to investigate the negative impacts of the wind farm projects, after requests from Smith, and fellow Republican Reps. Jeff Van Drew, Bruce Westerman (AR), and Andy Harris (MD), as reported by Breitbart News.
Smith told Fox News that the wind farm projects would impact marine radar though sonic interference.
“It causes disruptions, shadowing,” Smith told Fox News Digital, the latter referring to the inability to see enemy ships off the coast.
“There’s going to be nothing but disruption. Radar will not be credible. So, you’ll have ships of every size and variety — military ships, ocean and cargo ships, including carrying oil coming into my state for refineries — that potentially could run into other ships or into even some of these windmills themselves,” he added.
“The Coast Guard, too, will not be able to do search and rescue, particularly in bad weather, because of the gross interference that will happen,” he told Fox News Digital. “There’s also an impact on the Navy’s … Integrated Undersea Surveillance System, and it will interfere with that.”
Smith told the outlet that anonymous defense officials have told him that wind development is being prioritized over national security.
A Pentagon spokesperson defended the projects to Fox News Digital: “The Department of Defense is committed to protecting American national security interests, which includes reducing reliance on foreign energy sources and expanding domestic offshore wind energy development.”
61
“It causes disruptions, shadowing,” Smith told Fox News Digital, the latter referring to the inability to see enemy ships off the coast.
“There’s going to be nothing but disruption. Radar will not be credible. So, you’ll have ships of every size and variety — military ships, ocean and cargo ships, including carrying oil coming into my state for refineries — that potentially could run into other ships or into even some of these windmills themselves,” he added.
Perhaps that’s the plan.
51
Volkswagen cuts electric-car production amid drop in demand – report
Volkswagen has temporarily cut production of its electric cars due to “customer reluctance” and 30 per cent lower demand than planned. Meanwhile the first VW electric car for Australia remains six to 12 months away.
UK publication Autocar reports Volkswagen has cancelled a shift for two weeks on the German production line that builds the ID.4 electric SUV – and extended a holiday break for ID.4 assembly line workers by one week.
The measures are attributed to a drop in demand for electric vehicles due to customer demand that is said to be 30 per cent lower than planned production, according to Manfred Wulff, the head of the works council for the factory.
“We are experiencing strong customer reluctance in the electric vehicle sector,” Mr Wulff told the North West newspaper in Germany, according to Autocar.
Volkswagen has invested €1 billion ($AU1.6 billion) into electric-vehicle production at the Emden factory, with the next-generation Passat to be made in Slovakia for its next generation to free up space for more electric cars in the facility.
Minister of economic affairs for the state of Lower Saxony – where the Emden factory is located – Olaf Lies reportedly told Germany’s North West newspaper: “The registration numbers of electric vehicles continue to be high, but what concerns us is the current dip in demand – not only at Volkswagen but across all manufacturers.”
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Toyota HiLux mild-hybrid diesel debuts with rally show run in Africa
Toyota Australia won’t call the mild-hybrid diesel HiLux ute a hybrid, but a prototype that completed a demonstration run in Kenya last week isn’t hiding its electrified boost.
The mild-hybrid diesel version of the top-selling Toyota HiLux ute has made its debut at a World Rally Championship event in Africa ahead of first Australian showroom arrivals next year.
Toyota Australia this week announced plans to add mild-hybrid assistance to select HiLux diesel dual-cabs in the first half of next year – promising to trim fuel use by 10 per cent, well down on the 40 to 50 per cent savings found on Toyota models with traditional hybrid systems.
But Toyota in Africa quietly spoiled the party last week with a demonstration run of a prototype example in Kenya, ahead of the World Rally Championship race there over the weekend – which was won by a Toyota.
While Toyota Australia will not call the mild-hybrid HiLux a hybrid – protecting the reputation of its petrol-electric hybrid cars and SUVs – Toyota in Africa is not hiding the connection with unmissable ‘HYBRID’ stickers down the sides of the prototype.
Toyota says the mild-hybrid HiLux is a more “realistic and immediate option” for reducing carbon-dioxide emissions in Africa than a purely-electric vehicle, as electric-car charging infrastructure is scarce – and many areas in Africa do not even have a stable electricity supply.
“Even in relatively well-developed regions of Africa, such as Kenya or even in South Africa, there are some areas where electricity supply is unstable,” the company claims.
The 48-volt mild-hybrid technology planned for the Toyota HiLux combines the 2.8-litre turbo-diesel four-cylinder engine and six-speed automatic transmission with a small 48-volt battery, “electric motor-generator” and “other components.”
In addition to the modest fuel saving it is claimed to provide “improved driveability and reduced noise, vibration and harshness.”
50
Ozzie,
All good – they can go to the solar powered tank factory . The cognitive dissonance may become fatal…
30
VWs ID4 has been reported to be riddled with problems resulting in high customer complaints
That, combined with VWs infamous “answerphone” approach to customerservice, has most likely reduced demand.
A classic case of “early adopter” / guiney pig regrets..
And the word spread fast. !
21
Speaking of potholes, road repairs et al, when all those potholes start to appear, it occurs to me to wonder how they are going to repair them. After all, bitumen is a product of oil, and we use hundreds of millions of tons of it every year to build and repair roads all over the world.
Just another unintended consequence of all this nonsense.
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Actually, not convinced that BPV’s alone will cause road damage. Road wear and damage seems to be just a function of more vehicles/road these days. Even in rural Australia, where most of the damage is by heavy vehicles such as log trucks etc. It just seems we cant build roads like we used to. Or maybe we never could? But, BPV’s will certainly just make things worse, with their heavier average mass. My biggest concern regarding potholes is the mix of those cable barriers and potholed roads. Not sure about other states, but here in Vicdanistan the government has gone completely overboard on cable barriers. Hundreds of kms of them. Installed because of supposed higher safety, which is nonsense. People run into them and they stay un- repaired for months, weed control is difficult and you can get a very dangerous mix of potholes and centre line cable barriers. For a number of roads considered hazardous, cable barriers were installed along the centre line. Yep, how nutty is that? So, previously if you spotted potholes and the road was clear, it was better to swerve over that centre line ( to the right in Australia) to avoid. Now, on those centre line cable barrier roads there is no choice, you have to swerve left off the road where it’s much more dangerous.
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I loathe those wire barriers. Some years back we were driving up to Glasgow airport. There had been an accident on the A74, very nasty. A sports car had swerved into and through such a barrier and was totally sliced in half horizontally. It doesn’t bear thinking what became of the driver and passenger.
00
Motorcycle riders here call them ‘cheese cutters’ for a very good reason… ouch.
00
Cars are a necessity now that say 83% of all Victorians live in one city. Across the world villages are dying. So cars are a necessity.
And cars today are ALL a lot heavier, 1.5ton instead of the old 1.0 ton. ” A 1992 Volkswagen Golf GTi (below), tipped the scales at 1002kg, whereas the new one weighs 1477kg, a rise of 475kg!”
Then you get electric cars, another 0.6 tons. SUVs even more.
“Adding to the top-20 weight class are five EVs (Mercedes-Benz EQV, eVito, EQS, EQC and the BMW i7)” The Mercedes and BMW are 2.7 tons and over.
If the environmentalists were honest, it would be about getting the total cost, size and weight down, mining, manufacturing, shipping, total cost and impact on the environment. And the worst offenders by far are electric cars.
But hybrids can be smaller, lighter and with half the fuel cost. So the future is small hybrid cars, often less than 1 ton. And quite powerful and capable.
And of course the road size required, the parking, the access, everything would be much better.
But the nett zero edict against fossil fuels is all that matters, not sense, expense or even environmental damage done by EVs, Windmills and Solar panels and the associated mining.
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There is a great article by Prof Ian Plimer in the Spectator today. And he makes the point that Australia, Canada, the US and in fact the world are all Nett zero if you balance only CO2 output with vegetation input in those countries.
So the passion for Nett zero is about hating fossil fuels. And the logic is no more than this.
He does agree that extra CO2 is just a result of warming oceans. Although he also raises the question of volcanic heating of oceans which absorb 70% of the energy from the molten core and maybe a few actual volcanoes such as obviously creating the few ice free bays in the Antarctica.
But the push for very expensive, heavy environmental disasters in electric cars is completely without justificiation. And you can guarantee that like diesels, once everyone has one the punitive taxes will start. To save the environment. And when the blackouts come, they will be banned.
71
TdeF:
I know you can read a graph, even an old one so for you.
Fuel usage (coal, gas & oil) Graph + CO2 1988 to 2013
https://ktwop.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/25-years-of-fossil-fuel-consumption.png?w=768&h=613
20
Fascinating. Gas has doubled. The slowest growth is in oil? That’s a puzzle with the Chinese car market exploding. When I first went there it was all bicycles. The giant freeway out to Badalung(Great Wall) outside Beijing was empty. The next time the bicycles were being taken away on trucks and the freeway was jammed.
One comment though is the habit of removing the X axis which makes graph reading difficult. Everyone does this with CO2 for example and turn what is a low angle straight line into a rocket ship.
20
I also remember well the great oil crisis in the 1970s where the whole planet was running out of oil and gas was not a propulsion product.
Although the Americans saw gas (not petrol) as a possibility and put a massive gas turbine in their Abrams tanks. They also tried with cars but it was just too big. I think Chrysler had a jet car.
And Americans always call liquid petrol gas but real gas was not something we had until LP (Liquid Petroleum) gas came in as a petrol substitute after the crisis. The it was almost untaxed so the taxis switched. Lower mileage but a fraction of the cost.
Then the governments woke up to the lost revenue. The same thing happened with diesel which was really only for trucks and tractors and cheap.
It will happen again with electric cars. Sooner or later electric car owners will be vilified and taxed heavily. For the cash to maintain the roads of course.
Two things are certain, death and taxes. I used to say that the first government to tax breathing will make a fortune. That was prescient.
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?? VW Golf EV weight. = 1650 kg……0.12 tons more than that gti ( before you add 50+ kg of fuel !)
11
Yes, but all that damage will go away when they have reduced the number of vehicles on the road by 75%
The real issue is not pot holes, weak bridges, buildings burning down, emissions during production, copper production, blah blah blah …. its 75% vehicle reduction in twenty years. Its the intended North Korean lifestyle they have in line for us.
30
North Korean lifestyle …
But, please, without the Fatboy Kim hairstyle!
ummmm . . . do I really need the /s?
Auto
00
Another problem for some EV owners. Maybe coming to Aussie soon.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/132444698/kiwi-jaguar-ev-owners-told-to-park-cars-outside-due-to-fire-risk
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2 years ago ,Hyundai issued a similar warning to park outside away from buildings due to risk of fire ,..
..for all owners of petrol and diesel Tuscons !
00
If EVs are tearing up the roads, imagine the impact of electric trucks.
It’s has also been revealed that EV’s wear out tires a lot faster than conventional vehicles due to the weight and the (rather impressive) acceleration. Apparently, the additional “dust” from the wearing tires is more harmful to humans than the tailpipe emissions from a conventional gasoline vehicle.
61
POTholes? Does Hunter Biden know about them?
He’ll “clean them up” 😆
Does it matter when 15 minute cities become the norm?
If everyone is on UBI’s, who pays rates? Where does the local council get money from for repairs?
The whole world is following in South Africa’s footsteps very quickly and turning into 3rd world sh#tholes.
Perfect for the NWO agenda, but that is the plan after all…
42
Sweden Dumps Climate Agenda, Scraps Green Energy Targets
Sweden has just dealt a severe blow to the globalist climate agenda by scraping its green energy targets.
In a statement announcing the new policy in the Swedish Parliament, Finance Minister Elisabeth Svantesson warned that the Scandinavian nation needs “a stable energy system.”
Svantesson asserted that wind and solar power are too “unstable” to meet the nation’s energy requirements.
Instead, the Swedish Government is shifting back to nuclear power and has ditched its targets for a “100% renewable energy” supply.
The move is a major blow to unreliable and inefficient technology.
Countries are being pushed toward “renewable energy” to meet the goals of the World Economic Forum’s (WEF) green agenda.
The WEF’s green agenda is being heavily pushed by the United Nations, the World Health Organization (WHO), Paris Climate Agreement, World Bank, and Democrat President Joe Biden’s administration.
Announcing Sweden’s new policy, Svantesson said: “This creates the conditions for nuclear power.
“We need more electricity production, we need clean electricity and we need a stable energy system.”
Environmental campaign group Net Zero Watch has welcomed the move.
The group argues that the Swedish decision is “an important step in the right direction, implicitly acknowledging the low quality of unstable wind and solar, and is part of a general collapse of confidence in the renewable energy agenda pioneered in the Nordic countries and in Germany.”
Under its new direction, Sweden now views nuclear power as being critical to the nation’s “100% fossil-free” energy future.
Sweden can “afford to reject fossil fuels, relying on nuclear and hydro and biomass,” Net Zero Watch suggests.
Svantesson also sent a warning to other Western nations who are blindly pushing to meet the energy requirements of the WEF’s green agenda.
In “substantial industrialized economies… only a gas to the nuclear pathway is viable to remain industrialized and competitive,” Svantesson noted.
Experts have argued that lowering carbon dioxide emissions is not really a worthwhile goal for an individual country or globally.
The potential harms of the gas are uncertain and exaggerated while the benefits are overlooked.
Dr. John Constable, Net Zero Watch’s Energy Director, said that “living close to Russia focuses the mind.”
The Swedish people wish to “ground their economy in an energy source, nuclear, that is physically sound and secure, unlike renewables which are neither,” he explains.
Other world governments are continuing “to live in a fantasy” about meeting the green agenda goals, Constable added.
“But we are coming to the end of the green dream.”
50
The Labor Government just canceled the Australian space agency dedicated to launching Oz satellites to gather earth data.
Currently, we get the information free from China.
I will leave that there for people to digest.
40
…but Australia is still involved in reverse engineering UAP’s…
40
“Data Shows Incredible Way Electric Vehicles Create Double the Pothole Damage Than Gas Cars”
https://www.westernjournal.com/data-shows-incredible-way-electric-vehicles-create-double-pothole-damage-gas-cars/?ff_source=redirect
30
See previous post re that link..
..no data references given..
IE FAKE news !
00
Speaking of Idiots in Australia!
Doubts mount over gas exclusion from firming power underwrite scheme
Angela Macdonald-Smith – Senior resources writer
Labor’s reworked underwriting scheme for electricity firming power is facing fresh doubts over whether it can provide a fix for the transitioning grid as renewable power expands and baseload coal generators close.
The scheme’s exclusion of gas power, confirmed by Energy Minister Chris Bowen on Thursday, leaves it heavy reliant on batteries, pumped hydro and other emerging zero-emissions technologies to fill in the gaps between weather-dependent wind and solar power.
“It has to be renewable, it has to be dispatchable, ie, it can be called upon when the grid needs it,” Mr Bowen said in Sydney, noting the scheme would more than double the size of a NSW tender for firming capacity now under way.
Mr Bowen said the combined state and federal schemes would deliver 930 megawatts of capacity, and “eliminate” a forecast shortfall in power supply in 2028 that has been flagged by the Australian Energy Market Operator. The first capacity under the system should be rolled out in 2025, he said.
But while the details of how the scheme will work have yet to be announced, some industry insiders say they are yet to be convinced it will be effective at keeping the lights on, especially with major generators such as Origin Energy’s 2880 megawatt NSW plant due to retire in coming years.
The peak body for the energy supply industry said it remained “unclear” as to what role the scheme was intended to play.
“As coal plant continues to leave the market additional firming capacity will become vital to ensuring grid reliability,” said Ben Barnes, general manager corporate affairs and retail at the Australian Energy Council.
“We look forward to engagement with the design work to ensure the scheme can meet the government’s objectives. We also need to consider how to best manage the exit timing of this coal plant.”
Grattan Institute energy program director Tony Wood said the assertion from the governments that the scheme would eliminate the forecast shortfall in NSW was “a big claim”.
He said he remained doubtful about the scheme’s design, noting that the joint statement from Mr Bowen and NSW Energy Minister Penny Sharpe focused on megawatts of capacity the scheme would support and made no note of actual megawatt-hours of generation.
“If you are talking about 930 megawatts, when is it going to be available, on what days, for how long,” he said, noting batteries needed to constantly discharge and be recharged to be economic, and so could not be guaranteed to be available to relieve the reliability shortfall at any particular time in 2028-29.
Mr Wood also raised doubts whether the even more recent, longer-lasting batteries would be able to supply enough power to do the job of gas power over an extended period.
“Most people who talk about deep storage they are talking about four, six, eight hours, they are not talking about four, six, eight days,” he said.
But Schneider Electric senior director Lisa Zembrodt said she believed the scheme would be effective, citing the complementary nature of batteries to renewables and the cost-effectiveness of including demand response as a way of handling the transition in the energy system.
“Looking at the underlying costs of new gas generation, batteries are an effective alternative, particularly when combined with demand response or other energy management measures or technology,” she said.
“We do believe batteries and pumped hydro can provide the long-duration storage needs assuming coal closures proceed as planned.”
Ms Zembrodt said excluding gas from the scheme was “not a bad thing”, pointing to the harm that a reliance on gas and coal had done to the energy market over the past 18 months as prices surged.
Still, energy industry chief executives have also cast doubt on the effectiveness of a capacity scheme that excludes gas power.
Speaking at a conference last week in Melbourne, Origin Energy chief executive Frank Calabria called for “honesty” in the discussion with the public about the need for new gas plants to meet peak electricity demand.
“A functioning capacity mechanism is critical to encouraging the necessary investment in new firming supply,” Mr Calabria said. “We must be honest with the community that we simply cannot ensure reliable power supply without building new gas peakers.”
20
If there’s twice the road wear, there’s more than double the tire wear.
30
Rubbish !
Tyre wear is not determined by vehicle weight .
How much more “road wear” does a 40 ton truck produce ?
…and how long do their tyres last .?
11
“Tyre wear is not determined by vehicle weight.”
Commonsense should render that impossible. The more load on a tyre, the more work it has to do with breaking, cornering and even traveling straight.
“How much more “road wear” does a 40 ton truck produce ?”
Straight away, you’ll have 18 wheels impacting on the road instead of 4.
“…and how long do their tyres last .?”
You’ll be replacing 18 instead of 4.
10
“You’ll be replacing 18 instead of 4.”
Forgot to say, very big ones.
00
None of this matters. Climate change freaks are clearly in a binary debate, like which football team is best. They simply argue to the contrary. Convincing them will not change this projection we are on. It has to be some other mechanism that stops it.
31
Its not twice as much damage if you double the load, the general rule of thumb is that if you double the load you do 16x the damage, thats why trucks do much more damage than cars and there are much less trucks on the road than cars.
20
The problem is really very simple – and it doesnt relate to EVs per se – I live on a dirt road – the Council does not maintain it except for occasional pothole filling. It has rained persistently now since October last year and the potholes come back almost immediately after they have been filled. The trouble with Councils is they will patch up the roads as it is cheap and shuts up the locals for a couple of months. The problem is alowing standing water on these roads and the repetitive loading of wheels, and we dont have EVs or many trucks on my local road. If the road was properly constructed with a stabilised sub-base and a water shedding wearing course, they would last a lot longer but this never happens as the Councils actually dont seem to understand the principles of road construction. I am an engineering geologist by background and have just written to our local Council explaining that as I recently had a flat tyre due to hitting one of the potholes hard late at night, but I bet they will never pay attention and we will be kept on this stupid merry-go-round for ever. Have a good day
30
Even on our local surfaced roads, the poor original construction…and even completely remade sections… as soon as rain puddles in depressions, it quickly breaks the surface and any further rain opens up the cracks into potholes.
The hydraulic shock/pressure waves from any vehicle hitting a puddle forces the water further into the subsurface and breaks the material up.
Take a close look at any used road surface,..its all cracks and any heavy rain will breake it up!
20
absolutely my point exactly
10
And, if you live in an area where temperatures can drop below zero, all that water in the cracks and holes will freeze and expand and make a bad situation worse …
20
I agree with this article, but it also applies to unnecessary 4WDs. They are also the “truck that lives next door”.
10