Image by Donna Kirby from Pixabay
University degrees aren’t what they used to be
After years of universities turning out smug self-obsessed graduates of Woke ideology, Big Business has realized they might be better off hiring people with experience in the real world instead. They are also doing their own testing — with 2 out of 3 setting their own test assignments for candidates.
This year more than half of the 800 employers surveyed had already dropped bachelor degree requirements for at least some of their roles. It must have worked out, because next year almost all of those same companies plan on dropping the requirement for even more roles. That looks like a trend…
This surely must be ringing some warning bells in a few Ivory Towers? Fewer students, means less income, less influence, and fewer alumni:
How the college degree lost its value: Nearly half of US companies plan to ax Bachelor’s degree requirements – after Walmart, Accenture and IBM led the charge
DailyMail
Nearly half of US companies intend to eliminate Bachelor’s degree requirements for some job positions next year, a new survey has revealed.
And 55 percent said they’d already eliminated degree requirements this year, according to an Intelligent.com survey of 800 US employers, carried out in November.
In October, Walmart eliminated college degrees as a requirement for hundreds of its corporate roles…
Intelligent.com suggests that this move will help increase diversity by giving marginalized applicants more of a chance. But employers are conducting their own tests and they’re talking about finding a good fit for their culture. Perhaps what the employers want is a better attitude, not a virtue signalling Marxist? Or perhaps, since universities don’t like to fail anyone anymore, employers have to run tests to assess the merits:
80% of hiring managers favor experience over education in job applicants
“Assessments are important for many jobs, even if a student seems to have a relevant degree,” Gayeski says. “Employers use assessments to get a handle on whether candidates will be a good fit for their specific culture or the challenges of a certain job – such as the ability to handle conflict or to take on unfamiliar tasks and take risks. They’re also a way for applicants to demonstrate their interest in a job and how accurately and quickly one can perform tasks.”
The majority of test assignments, 81%, take two hours or less to complete.
This is what you get when you take a great institution, try to make it fit half the population, and spurn free speech and the pillars of its success. Alas, at the bleeding edge of societies intellectual fashion parades, and in protected government zones, the adulation of academic degrees will continue.
I don’t care if my Barista has a degree in Medieval Lesbian & Transsexual Interpretive Dance.
If they cannot make a cup of coffee (real milk) then are they worth employing?
160
“As ye sow, so shall ye reap.”
290
This has been coming for a while. The cost/benefit of tertiary education has been heading up a blind gully.
The solution has to be, and so often is, to hand the job back to a free market. Shut down half the tertiary education system and let employers direct the resulting savings to doing their own educating. Develop the skills they need.
360
“…employers direct the resulting savings to doing their own educating.”
And the best educator is experience which leads into the “seniority” question. IMHO we lost a lot when the outsourcing and contract approach took hold. A deeper and fuller knowledge and appreciation/understanding of a business operation, failings and opportunities thrives best in those who have “come up through the ranks”. Seniority should never be the sole consideration but certainly in retail and support level (help desk/call centre) at the work face level an internal senior influenced appointment generally leads to better day to day operation which of course means better staff morale and better customer satisfaction. Returning customers are the life blood of retail.
200
I have seen the inability to distinguish between knowledge and experience, and acting accordingly, causing problems.
Most understand Engineers, Natural Scientists, and Medical Practitioners need a good grounding in the appropriate knowledge base with some relevant experience before they can start holding their own, at their aspired level. However, I have seen senior people taking political decisions upon which they don’t have any idea of the basics.
Most of the politicians pushing the assortment of technologies that come under Net Zero is a prime example. Not only don’t they understand what the consequences, they don’t even understand the questions knowledgeable people ask.
Another, less obvious, problem occurs when someone in say, Retail, asks to join the IT department, but they don’t appear to have that inate understanding that so much of IT is built on: get the infrastructure correct, understand it, and keep everything tidy, and many requests for functional changes are much easier to implement, and understand, later.
There needs to be less ‘announce, build, then design, and then draw up the specification and documentation’. That way, knowledge and experience can be put to good use.
50
On the job training has always been a way of guaranteeing that the trainee is imbued with the culture of the employer rather than that of some institution that seems irrelevant to the ultimate consumer’s requirements. If I was an employer now I would be ensuring that none of those screaming Hamas supporters ever were employed by me. People who are so ignorant of such an important event and history would probably be a drain on resources in any organisation. It shows a reluctance to self educate.
201
Lawrie,
You might be interested in my mate Tony Thomas writing in Quadrant sabout this very matter. He is a senior, experienced journalist, disgusted by the antics of some of his industry woke folk.
Geoff S
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/the-left/2023/12/warning-luvvies-delivering-moral-lectures/
120
Mechty aye, as they once said in Aberdeenshire. NOw Aberdeen “Uni” is looking to axe LANGUAGES. Hmm, Ok for the Art-farts, but for a better understanding of Europe, etc …. what’s nae tae want? Maybe helping to nail down the remoaner coffin.
But it’s the Applied sciences that bug me. Just watch Metube … Manoman! Great vid, great vid, how’s the … ( Never really mention her who stands behind ) and the kids. Blah bla bla. NOthing about Content and whether it is academically right or practically Wrong. Would have been a great stage for educatING discussion.
81
The Gallic Wars By Julius Caesar
Translated by W. A. McDevitte and W. S. Bohn
The Gallic Wars has been divided into the following sections:
Book 1 [106k]
Book 2 [60k]
Book 3 [53k]
Book 4 [64k]
Book 5 [98k]
Book 6 [77k]
Or if your taste runs to the Original Latin
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0002%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D1
50
Nightmare of my youth!
60
Annie,
agreed – did 4 years of Latin in High School including The Gallic Wars By Julius Caesar, but had to drop it for Leaving Certificate Year as too many subjects
It was at Uni and in Travel I came to appreciate Latin
50
Ozzie,
Nice to see your still going strong . Latin is useful in medicine and biology as a lot of names for things originate there . Most of our languages also have roots there too . Nil Illegitimi Carborundum…
80
My last trip to a doctor resulted in a laser printed script. I guess the chemists are sick of unintelligible latin. 😉
50
Unless you are aimin for a career in medicine , Biology, botany, or history, ..
Latin is a waste of good brain space that could/should be used for more current, and future, relavent subjects.
31
Chad,
“a waste of good brain space”
Not at all. Read the Rivers of London series by Ben Aaranovich to see what Latin is really for.
30
Along with that often extremely applicable family motto –
“Sine dubio crapissimus est”
Chances of sweet talking “Elbow” into using it?
20
I appreciated Latin later when I found the derivation of common words fascinating. A bit of teach-yourself Greek came next.
60
Annie,
Having learnt Greek Alphabet in Uni Maths, Physics & Chemistry, it came in Handy in Visit to Greece in 1973, when dual English Signs were not prevealnt
I was able to understand and interrept Greek Signs and Menus
12 Yr Old Grandson is learning Greek of his own violition – Duolingo – has selected Mandarin (which he is already doing), French & Latin for Year 7 – 1st Year of High School
30
And mine. Caesar was a propagandist of the first order and his stuff was big-time boring. I prefer Tacitus, who was one of the early “lonely planet” writers, who tried to describe what the places were actually like. I read his account of when the legions came into mid-Wales and met up with the Silurii. Half a page and it was a photo-fit description of my next door neighbours. They hadn’t changed much in 1800 years.
30
Great link old Ozzie thanks . .
30
I love the opening of De bello Gallico
Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur. Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se differunt. Gallos ab Aquitanis Garumna flumen, a Belgis Matrona et Sequana dividit.
All Gaul is divided into three parts, one of which the Belgae inhabit, the Aquitani another, those who in their own language are called CELTS, in our Gauls, the third. All these differ from each other in language, customs and laws. The river Garonne separates the Gauls from the Aquitani; the Marne and the Seine separate them from the Belgae.
So, the Celts lived in NW France. Not one writer before 1707 said anything difference – and certainly didn’t place a single Celt in Britain. Yet today the Celts were supposed to have lived in Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
Yet, it gets even weirder. Because although there is absolutely no connection between the Welsh, Irish and Scots, some Belgae Gauls, did invade the “nearer shores” of SE ENGLAND. So, there were some English Gauls … who might claim to be “Celtish”. And let’s not forget, the warlike Celts of NW France, became the warlike Normans of Normandy, so, many Normans were of Celtic origin.
So, when Edward the hammer of the Scots invaded Scotland, he and his Norman gentry were arguably the only actual descendants of the actual historic Celts.
10
They should at least teach english as a second language!
80
Exactly. Last spring I attended a convocation at my old University. Out of 200 graduates in science, math and applied sciences, at least 2/3rds could not speak English. I dont know how they passed their undergraduate English/writing requirements.
Kids today….
30
Saigh, your doric phrases reminded me of an ancient friend, who despite a long time living in Australia, is always mystifying me with his talk of the ‘fitba’ and ‘Hibs’ etc from the land of his birth.
Just like the Scot Scran youtube channel I came across a few years ago (mad recipe for Butteries https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxdIZ9IeRuk)
40
Oh fitye like, AuntJanet, Fan a wis a loon, e neighboreen orraman’s wee lassie cam oot fir a blether. Fa’s yer dad’s name she wis askt . Charlie Chookit. Chookit ses ah? Aye. OK. Many many years later fan a wiz biden on e bonnie city o’ Aild Aiberdein, a got tae ken fa she wiz talkin aboot. Chookit wis e local pro-noon-see-asian o’ 2Do Good” or in Scots ” Duguid ” – of which there are many around ( Turriff ? )
Hope that helps. Maybe that Lady is now reading this!
30
Quite!
Ya still a wee loon.
10
You are so right.
A young relative of mine in the UK, given the choice between a private school and a state school, chose the state school because it is now virtually impossible under UK diversity rules for any white person from a private school to get to university. The decision went well with their parents as they compared the fees.
I suspect it won’t be long before the universities completely lose their standing – reaping what tbey sowed. And then private schools will be worth their fees again.
241
Mike,
Our youngest grandchild is finishing primary school as we speak. His parents have worked very hard to send him to a private secondary school with a high academic rank. We endorse thir choice.
I have just had some surgery. The communication problem in some hospitals where English is not always the first language is downright dangerous. The surgeon had to explain, with shouting, how the assisting nurse should turn the contyrol valve on a gas bottle of medical substance, while in the middle of a very touchy procedure where a small slip would be disaster. (No, nothing to do with below any waist).
Geoff S
70
I’ll never forget starting my last employment in a German pharmaceutical enterprise in the the bookkeeping departement with an interview over somewhat more than 30 minutes in French and English in parallel by two persons on different subjects with the target to be responsible for the French affiliated companies.
Nice experience with no probs 😀
220
I think the percentage of people with a Masters and/or a PhD has also increased a lot.
Even 20+ years ago in Adelaide, a bachelors degree with Honours was seen as useful, but quite a few went on from that to a Masters and then to a PhD. Maybe it’s also the case that there is now little value in an ordinary Bachelor’s degree, and it’s likely cheaper to hire people without this.
A few years after being taken over by a large company, my employer decreed that those without at least a BSc or equivalent would never progress past a certain (low) grade. Until then the majority of employees were from a technical college, and the company had been very successful in Australia with this general level of education, degree holders and above being the exception, not the rule.
Needless to say, even 10 years later, the company never tries recruiting university graduates in Australia (except engineers) as it’s easier and cheaper to get highly qualified (on paper) people from overseas, even when a noticeable percentage are eventually found to have faked their Masters or PhD qualifications, if not other certifications – they join the company overseas, then, as staff are needed in Australia they are selected by their CV and verbal recommendation. For some reason the Aussie HR department cannot comprehend that very often (not always), the people available for transfers are those whom overseas management want to get rid of, rather than being the brightest and best…
380
Well we watch a lot of European Sat. TV ( but I’m NOT a remoaner) and it was taken as Normal, YEARS ago that the Head of a Company, or it’s engineering dept. was a Herr DOCTOR … Many politicians too. Jump to UK, er emm, Ms. and/or some “foreign” name. Multi-culti? well if I grow a crop like that I’ll get Multi-useless crop yields. and so on.
60
When you see the sort of rubbish being published particularly by so called climate science PhDs, you have to wonder how smart they are. I am not a scientist but I do observe that on this site and WUWT for example numerous papers by PhD scientists are totally debunked within days. There is the famous hockey stick graph by friend Mann that is based on tree rings that were selected because they told the required story while others were ignored. Such selective data collection is not science yet Mann is a pre-eminent climate scientist. His efforts and his peers who have ruined the West with their fraudulent science belittle every PhD that is ever been honourably earned. If it happens at that level then the lesser degrees are also questionable along with the universities that pump them out. Peter Ridd springs to mind; sacked because he refused to tell lies.
160
My personal opinion is that most of the people that go into the climate change fraud are third class ‘scientists’, at best. Not naming any names, but when the main skill seems to be doctoring data, you know that the pool needs a healthy dose of chlorine.
50
Don’t see much Ajax nowadays, so try Harpic. Kwik FLush.
00
James,
This old fossil did Science at uni in the mid-1960 era. The study was really hard, plus the exams weould be difficult for modern under-graduates to comprehend, let alone pass. There was far more fundamental theory taught back then. Like, I had to know how to derive the main equation by Erwin Schrodinger from first principles, withoput notes or calculator (as calculators of the electronic type were yet to be invented. This is part of understanding radiation and energy as in gas waerming the air).
I cannot see how modern society can be other than worse off for this.
Geoff S
https://www.geoffstuff.com/exam_paper_1960s.jpg
130
Hi Jo,
It may have something to do with the fact that the Ivy League Universities have decided to give “participation grades” that is in some courses in Yale and Harvard 80% of the grades are ‘A+, A or A-‘ so how the hell do the employers sort that cluster out??
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/yale-awards-80-percent-grades-range
180
Or perhaps the increase in the percentage of “diversity” admissions to those universities even before course performance is considered
80
DIE! Biden’s definition “Diversity equity inclusion”. When reality bites it becomes a Dystopian nightmare.
190
These days, having a “university” “degree” in most areas makes a person worse than useless.
Apart from the public “service” or feral unions, who would want a person that is a complete waste of space, is angry, uncooperative and woke and who has “studied” something like “gender studies”, “queer theory”, “whiteness studies” or similar nonsense?
At least there are examples of students who actually want to learn something useful and make something of their lives and not be wastes of space and wasted lives like their colleagues:
Tragically wokeness and dumbing down has also infested what used to be worthy professions like science and engineering. Most graduates seem to actually believe in the anthropogenic global warming fraud and that you can run an industrial civilisation on solar and wind.
And look at medicine and the attitude of most younger”medical doctors” about covid who actually pushed the useless and dangerous “vaccines” and supported bans on useful therapies like IVM and HCQ (taken according to appropriate protocols). I bet most of them also think you can change gender.
422
There will still be a high demand for taxi cab drivers with a University Degree
300
I doubt today’s typical “university” graduates would qualify as taxi drivers. Too much like work. And the customers wouldn’t want to be insulted with Marxist diatribes from woke purple-haired freaks. In any case, soon taxis will be driverless and already are in some cities like San Francisco.
170
Not necessarily. In my areas of expertise (architecture and planning) it was routine to at least test for spatial reasoning ability. Even as far back as 2001, there were plenty of Masters students who could not draw a straight line from A to B, and don’t bother asking which way was north. Since none of them actually walked you got a car drive line. I guess that’s useful for taxi drivers. But don’t taxis have GPS? And what happens if a driverless one sees a kangaroo? (Not sure about the humans on board, but on one occasion it was fatal for the tesla and the roo.)
110
Phrase of the Day “Would you like fries with that”?
180
You have to know where you are going to be a Taxi Driver. Well, you did in the Old days.
100
Such degrees will be called ‘Uber’ degrees.
140
I know a citizen, originally a teacher, who came on a leaky boat to escape Saddam Hussein, acquired a Masters degree while driving a taxi in Sydney, then a PhD, went back to Iraq and got stuck there by CV19, is now back in Oz, and has just acquired a Lexus for luxury Uber.
As for knowing the streets of Sydney, he said people tell you where they want to go.
80
But only with driving competence, maths skills for arguments about fares and extensive knowledge of urban geographies for when the map program blindsides them
10
A few years ago I was at a friend’s place for lunch and their son, a Millennial engineer was there and I was horrified he had not heard of such basic concepts as laminar flow and had never heard of a Pelton Wheel. So in response to my alarm he challenges me as to if I knew the meaning of a whole bunch of acronyms, not related to engineering concepts but primarily to do with current Government regulatory programs…. I was horrified as to the lack of knowledge of engineering but the familiarity with government regulations. We truly have no hope.
471
Also related:
I was at a dinner at the same friend and I said I once bought a sextant at an Op Shop (US = Thrift Store). There were four Millennials present and not a single one had ever heard of such a device. Of course, they are not in general use now, but you’d think they ought to be familiar with basic concepts of navigation and how it was done, back in the day.
391
Sextant –
a). weapon of maths distraction as used by that Imperial invading colonialist, Lieutenant James Cook
b). marital arts tool
c). latest 6-piece boy/girl band
*Do I get an A+ for spalling miss takes?
340
You get an “A” for realising that Captain James Cook never came to Australia.
60
And here am I who thought a Sextant was something you took on camping trips with your girlfriend to keep the rain off you if you got lucky!!
20
Sextant – David, I always used to emphasise to my officers [and the younger Masters] that they needed to be competent with a sextant – in case the satnav goes down, because ….
And that in a well-regarded gas-tanker fleet.
We ran an exercise where the satnav would be covered [not switched off!] for two days, and the ship would navigate [deep sea] using sextants.
We gave the crews plenty of notice [so they DID practise].
And afterwards, the feedback was good – the confidence in using sextants, chronometers, and nav tables [no calculators!] had increased very considerably.
I commend this exercise to other fleet managers and Safety Managers – whatever the cargo.
Sextants and their use are still an essential.
Auto
PS, I be that there are many bits of kit – found in museums – that neither you, David, nor I could name [let alone demonstrate] – but which, still, can do the needed, without electricity or computers or a tutorial from Moo-Chuube.
A.
10
That IS Engineering these days … it doesn’t matter if the machine blows up, or the bridge falls down … but woe betide the Engineer who didn’t tick all the right boxes beforehand.
We have shifted from personal responsibility over to process responsibility and of course no one is ever held responsible … except those who go against “consensus”.
320
I hadn’t heard of a Pelton Wheel, by name, but wiki explains it very well:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelton_wheel
The Physics is Sixth Form, A level (@ 18 Yr) stuff, made ‘interesting’. Well, that would be in the early 1970s. 🙂
40
When I see an appointment of someone to a senior position now, my first question is “are they a quota placement or are they there on merit” and if they have a “university” degree, were they also pushed through according to a quota and/or “diversity, equity inclusion” nonsense.
It’s easy to tell, Even when protected from difficult questions and performance assessments by their woke protectors.
It’s only a matter of time before people are killed due to putting incompetent people in power just to fill some quota. It’s already been warned about in the airline industry (pilots).
320
DM.
Two granddaughters now approaching 30.
Wife opined that Elizabeth Taylor was a good actress.
GDs – who is Elizabeth Taylor?
Geoff S
30
“It’s already been warned about in the airline industry (pilots).”
Have a look at the air traffic controller situation in US now – seems to be “woked” and “quota-ed” and attracting headlines for all the wrong reasom\ns
20
Some 25 years ago, in my late forties, I found myself on the job market. ‘Tenured’ positions were not what they used to be. Did many interviews in search of a new position, over thirty in fact. One recurring theme was: ‘what year was your degree’? 1979. I wondered why that was apparently important: Anything after 1990 was a reason to grill the candidate a bit harder.
It appears to have become only worse. On the positive side: those who reinvent the real university will be enormously successful.
230
Can modern technology enable somebody to do that? Leapfrog the system?
I expected it would do so a long time before now. Maybe AI (which I interpret as inexpensive computing) can boot it along.
60
I agree. The absolute latest date you could have received a “university” “degree,” and still have learned something useful is 1990, although the rot was already set in by the late 1970’s.
140
Why did 30 companies waste time asking for something they knew from your application?
Answer. They didn’t.
410
To avoid age-related discrimination, some people submit job applications which exclude certain dates. They can find out at the interview.
62
They wont be interviewed.
65
Just as well that you don’t have to go through that process GA.
Secure employment with CSIRO is worth a lot.
30
Mr. Aye: You say that with such certainty. As if you are inside the head of the top HR person in EVERY COMPANY EVERYWHERE! From the context, it’s plain to see you don’t know what such companies are thinking or doing. Is there anything funnier than the certainty of the AGW acolyte as he applies his certainty to other fields?
30
The absurd implication by the OP is that none of the applicants put the year of their degree on their CV. It is just a made up story – and there are quite a few above and below.
02
No such implication was made.
He said that question was given to him on a number of occasions, he did not mention the experience of other job candidates nor imply that he knew.
00
You’ll believe anything.
00
I have always wanted to leave some money to a real university in my will for science, engineering, medical or (traditional) fine arts but I can’t find a non-woke university that would use my gift appropriately for the purpose of traditional scholarship. It would end up being wasted for some anti-science, anti-freedom, anti-freedom, anti-reason, anti-Western woke endeavour.
282
If anyone knows of a university that still practices actual traditional scholarship with no woke BS, please let me know. Preferably in Australia but overseas if necessary.
72
None in Australia. Sorry, but there are criteria to be eligible for Government grants.
40
There’s these guys, absolutely non-woke but also somewhat non-traditional. Teaching Austrian Economics.
https://mises.org/
40
Thanks Tel. I might leave them something. I do like the Austrian School of economic thought.
21
There’s a range of Homeschool resources groups in Australia … most of them running on a shoestring. I have no idea which are good but I’m sure they need all the help they can get.
You can find heaps of them online but hard to get any teal feedback. Often they center around religious convictions so I guess they conmect up via church groups.
30
What about the Ramsay Centre?
20
I thought about UK’s Open University. Then I looked – more sociology courses than physics courses.
Don’t bother.
However, – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Buckingham – looks to be better.
In UK, so not perhaps to your taste.
It’s your cash, so I’ll do no more than mention it for your possible consideration.
Auto
10
I believe Harvard is offering a degree in Taylor Swift.
130
Please do not spread rumours like this!
The rush of applications for the Taylor Swift degree will cause untold floods of of desperate applicants!
80
What will be taught in Harvard’s Taylor Swift class?
Course instructor Stephanie Burt will have students do a lot more than write about their favorite Taylor tracks.
“We will learn how to study fan culture, celebrity culture, adolescence, adulthood and appropriation; how to think about white texts, Southern texts, transatlantic texts, and queer subtexts,” Harvard’s website says.
Students will also learn about Swift’s predecessors in music like Dolly Parton, and “read literary works important to her.”
For Gods sake.
80
“Nuclear expert Dr Adi Paterson says the buildout of renewables “reduces the efficiency” of the grid and there is “no way” the grid proposed by Labor will work the way they say it will work.”
Engineers with degrees who don’t know anything + numnut pollies.
200
Andrew Bolt recently interviewed a full blown loony who was once an ambassador for Australia at a number of countries.
This delusional fool BELIEVES the Human race is heading for extinction and that his kids have no future. Anyway he planned to starve himself to death if Australia didn’t phase out coal and gas mining etc, but then surprise, surprise he quickly changed his mind.
He claimed that the world would be too dangerous in the future, but was too stupid to even look up the data showing deaths from extreme weather events have dropped by 98% over the last century.
How do we penetrate the minds of these so called educated people when they don’t have the ability to THINK using available data and then understand very simple sums?
Here’s Bolt’s interview if you have nothing better to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44Rq7m1sgXE
240
That guy lacked commitment. He gave up.
I knew he was a woke wimp and would give up.
80
When I was studying for my Geology degree in the early 1960’s my civil engineering dad used to go on and on about the “Micky mouse” degrees (not necessarily science degrees) he had noticed. He even (nicely) had a go at me (on Graduation) for thinking I now knew it all! Practical experience was what he wanted in engineering geologists. Like logging of drill cores and spending time with experienced drillers (they knew a lot about dam foundations), underground support workers, hydrologists, etc.
He was right in that the basics were there but the theory took precedence over practical experience.
200
My father gave me 2 pieces of advice when I graduated.
1. When a loudmouth someone claimed that X causes Y (e.g. how the factory process worked) take a piece of paper and work it out yourself.
2. Water runs downhill. He pointed out that in 30 years of engineering this was usually claimed by someone about every year.
Then he took me around to a ramp recently fitted for forklift to access a factory, pointing out that it was engineered at the maximum slope for a forklift to climb. He asked what was wrong with it? A quick look saw that there was a spoon drain at the base. I was pleased to spot that fault, but I’ve seen the same problem at least 3 times in my career, 2 by Council engineers.
120
Only two?
50
I haven’t been researching forklift ramps, just happened across them. I might add that I’ve seen 2 others (give away because the fully laden forklifts had to go up the ramp backwoods).
20
Not Geology under Phipps & Brannagan?
50
A few years ago the Queensland government gave a grant to each of the shires & smaller cities to promote tourism in their area. One of the local universities had been running courses in tourism promotion, probably found no employment prospects for their graduates, so worked for these government grants to fix the problem.
There must have been a segment in writing tourism promotion advertising, as shortly after this radio & TV stations were full of such adverts. They were almost word perfect with only the name of the shire changed.
Thankfully the idea died a rapid death.
90
Not all doom and gloom out there. I regularly train qualified technical folks for new skills, using high-speed methods not available at TAFE colleges – they come from all around Australia, as it appears that this type of concentrated training is not available elsewhere.
And they are good – they know their stuff and want to add to their knowledge. So very easy to work with them. And of course they are very much in demand in the mining and gas industries, with good salaries to match.
It’s great working with these young highly-skilled young folk.
100
I took some night time courses at TAFE a few years back, 3 in welding (MMAW, MIG, TIG) because I needed the fabrication skills for a prototype I was designing.
My instructor had some 30 years experience btw.
I noticed during some MMAW welding that there was a thermal sweet spot for optimum slag removal. One tap of the hammer and it came off as one piece. In the adjacent cubicle, our experienced instructor was producing tap, tap, tap sounds for a minute.😆
And one of the questions on the final exam was wrong which I pointed out afterwards. He grinned. Everyone else had just picked one of the choices.
They look but don’t see…
41
“It’s great working with these young highly-skilled young folk.”
Are they from SE Asia or India. ??
20
Umm, no. Not yet. I’m not sure why that would matter anyway. They are just hard-working young folks, determined to improve themselves.
20
I suppose to be fair, we should agree that most leaders of our countries today also BELIEVE that we live in a very dangerous time and place.
The so called President of the USA also BELIEVES we face an EXISTENTIAL THREAT, unless we do SOMETHING STUPID.
Yet we know that the human life expectancy of the 1.6 billion people in 1900 was about 32 years and about 46 years in 1950 for 2.5 billion. BUT today over 8 billion people on Earth have a life expectancy of 71 or 73 years. Take your pick.
OH and the UN also BELIEVES that the life expectancy of about 10.5 billion humans in 2100 will be 81 years.
So how can we make sense of this UN etc projection for the next 77 years and yet still BELIEVE we face EXTINCTION? Any ideas?
130
This will not impact the elite schools.
It’s just Neo Feudalism.
The waning of the egalitarian, capability oriented period post 1918.
We can see the aristocracy reforming with the ousting of academics that question AGW and the Pandemic.
Praise the Emperors new outfit, or be ousted from the Court.
110
This shows that its time to get the Govt out of education completely and let the private sector educate the people it needs for private industry. From kindergarten up it has become a propaganda machine and teaches very few useful skills.
The Left even hate the voucher system where the parent gets a choice of schools & the taxpayer pays, they want your children at their chosen school and hence use geography to make sure the poor get a lousy education and the rich do better.
It does explain the research that shows IQ is dropping each generation…
70
Lomborg tries again to focus on the data and simple sums in regard to the promises to be made at COP 28.
The cost of these promises will be horrendous and achieve nothing. So what’s new?
Meanwhile China, India and developing countries have many hundreds of COAL and gas power plants to build to ensure the future prosperity of their citizens.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/bjorn-lomborg-cop28-will-ignore-net-zeros-atrocious-waste-of-money/ar-AA1kMrgf
80
Education prior to the last few decades was much more diverse. Various fields – Engineering, Business, Law etc – had formal qualifications that were not university based. They also had sub degree level qualifications. My experience was that I didn’t use 95% of what I studied in my degree. I learn’t 95% of my craft on the job. Time moved on that quick. What is needed is a return to shorter diploma level qualifications. As such in any such discipline the students would do a 2 year diploma. They would then go into the workforce for at least a year. They could then top up their qualification to a degree, a master’s degree and a PhD. The studies – units – also need to be broken down into 3 5 week individual sections each 6 months.
70
Kim,
A friend recently commented that we would be better off expanding apprenticeship into more technical areas as experience is generally superior to the education system . Its expensive and overrated . AI will take over the rest….
60
Many universities offer a Bachelors Degree in Journalism, however it now appears AI is going to have a major impact.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/01/media/axel-springer-ai-job-cuts/index.html
They argue this will free up the journalists to go after the big stories, but I have my doubts.
70
“Journalism” is today a highly biased, partial, “profession” for woke activists.
It used to be a trade learned on the job via an apprenticeship.
In Australia, Australia’s first Marxist PM Whitlam decided to make “jounalism” something to be learned at university and set up a series of extreme Marxist-Leninist-oriented journalism schools in universities for the purpose of permanently altering the face of journalism and removing whatever impartiality the profession had left and setting up journalists to be forever favourable to the objectives of the Left.
It obviously worked.
I wouldn’t trust any story written by a typical journalist, with the exception of about a handful. I wouldn’t trust AI stories either, given that it’s been demonstrated to have a strong inbuilt Leftist bias.
101
For educational standards the Left look to the example of Dr Greta Thunberg who never went to university and skipped school and is now their finest intellectual.
120
Did she ever achieve a passing grade in anything but stupid.
70
Ronin
“Did she ever achieve a passing grade in anything but stupid.”
The poor kid was – is? possibly, still – abused.
Emotionally [and intellectually, if I may be allowed that word referencing Greta].
And, I wonder, financially … just who gets the thousands?
Possibly just hundreds after her affirmation of Palestine/Hamas – rapists and baby-bakers as they seem to be.
But, I suggest =-
Passing grade in naivete … err, Summa cum laude in naivete I suggest.
And, maybe, in – a dislike of contrary opinions – so ‘woke’ …
Auto
20
It was Tony Blair, the war criminal, who started the trend in the UK for everyone to have a degree, in the name of equality, but in reality dumbing down society. Now we have, for example, nurses with degrees who are ‘too smart’ to do basic care. Before I escaped the rat race, my employer had to spend a lot of time training new graduates in how to do their jobs and how to act like a mature adult. Degrees are not, and should not be for everyone. If everyone has a degree then in reality they are worthless.
90
The lefts need for everyone to have a degree stems from a notion that your value comes from what you know not what you do.
00
I work with some very well educated people who do little and know even less. They are often the ones that insist on being referred to as Doctor, and blame their terrible public speaking skills on the audience, that is apparently too stupid to understand what they are being told.
The other equally credentialed people are often a pleasure to work with, and don’t hesitate to share what they know without being condescending. I’ve also noticed that these people seem much more passionate and interested in their work than the group mentioned above, along with being fundamentally curious about many things outside their realm of expertise.
40
Remember Ita Buttrose years ago said she’d rather hire someone with real world experience than just a uni degree?
Martin A too.
Doug Casey too.
And Ita put out that women’s magazine that contained intelligent articles, rather than the usual mindless garbage of who’s-up-who in the social calendar.
That magazine failed quickly. A sad indictment.
In this month’s issue of “No idea” – how climate change impacts Kim Kardashian’s butt size and what it means for you. 😆
Then, as most of probably know, we have the dreaded tech support lines and channels.
People with degrees but without the slightest clue about the technical issue you’re having.
Don’t start me off on that one.
70
You shouldn’t have mentioned it; now you’ve started me off on it.
There was a story on Usenet in the early ’90s comparing Microsoft Technical Support with the Psychics Friends Network. In its conclusion:
60
Glorified database querying typists.
M$ “help” is as useful as a flat tyre.
Don’t know anything about .NET 4+ initialisation do you?
20
If I have a problem with a support line I always request “Human please”.
10
I completed a Bachelor of Science degree in the 1980’s and was very lucky to get an R & D based position with a major international company. I learned more in the first 3 months of the job than I ever did during 4 years of uni. A year or 2 after starting work I went back to my 4th year notes that were specific to my vocation. I had barely 1 page of notes and then I found that most of the products mentioned were out of date by about 20 years. The only thing that uni gave me was possibly a good grounding in biochemistry and also the knowledge of jargon or language. Also, I dont think I was effective until after at least 2 years working. On the job learning, particularly mentored by more experienced personnel cant be beaten. It’s why Zoom conferencing and Working from home is not very practical for young employees.
120
” I found that most of the products mentioned were out of date by about 20 years.”
So were most of your professors/lecturers.
20
None of the Arts degrees have meaningful merit to my knowledge. I’m sure some students know their stuff, but few.
Many of the “hard science” degrees do have merit: maths, physics, engineering, etc.
But it is quite true that experience matters a great deal. It is one thing to answer test questions at Uni and another thing to know what to do when something goes horribly wrong in reality.
Those who know “what to do when it is critically necessary” are the experienced, not the gilded.
I’ve been a practicing Chartered Mechanical Engineer for 35 years. And it is still wise and prudent to listen to what the Job Site Foreman has to say. Nobody knows everything, but everyone knows something, and smart people know the difference and how to spot the real knowledge from the pretenders. I look for the ones who have survived. By that alone, it is proof they know things worth knowing. Generally they’ve been injured and know exactly why. The proof is in what has worked, does work, and will work, as contrasted to what is claimed to work with no history of success. Find the oldest person on any job site who has all his fingers and both eyes, and listen to him tell you what might go wrong. Then make a decision.
110
The earliest modern Humans date back about 300,000 years.
Up until the last 0.1% of that time ( up to 1770) Human lives were brutal and short or under 30 years. See OWI Data I’ve linked to before.
By 1900 1.6 billion Human’s life expectancy had increased to 32 years.
By 1950 the 2.5 billion Humans lived to 46 years.
But today 8 + billion Humans live to about 71 years.
The UN Human life expectancy projections in 2100 are for 10.4 billion Humans and life expectancy to be 81 years.
Funny thing that the moment Humans have used fossil fuels their life expectancy and quality of life have FLOURISHED. See China since about the 1980s for the most extreme evidence of this flourishing.
Even today fossil fuels supply over 80% of our total energy.
Indeed this must be the greatest story in Human history, but today our so called journalists run for cover and instead tell every lie in the book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_human
60
…and the post Fakevax ™ life expectancy is…(I+10)max, where I=injection date. 😎
A dark time for future historians to mull over.
50
Note the charts at this site:
Higher Education Enrollment Trends by Gender, 1970 to 2025 (educationalpolicy.org)
Three graphics illustrate the percentage distribution of men versus women enrolled as undergraduates.
There are several interesting aspects of this trend. Hiring might be one, but I haven’t seen a report on that. Family formation being the major issue, apparently.
20
In the not to distance future, the majority of office jobs will be AI’d. But you will still owe the money for your “higher” education. Tradies will be the new upper class inner city elites and you Uni graduates will be serving them beers and burgers….bwahaha
60
I graduated with an Agricultural Science degree from Glasgow University in 1962, and after a year in the Zoology lab doing some research on insect predators of other insects I joined Rentokil (the British based pest management company). I was employed initially as a Surveyor (a technical sales person who sized up , wrote the treatment instruction and sold the job, much to my mother’s chagrin as I was “just a salesman”). There is no doubt that my scientific training, under exceptionally good tutors at University taught me to question and assess every situation that I met in my daily work, but to be honest, in the UK at least, I could probably have done the job without a science degree, as all my sales colleagues did.
However, it did help to get me chosen to emigrate out here in 1966 to help start the company as the South Pacific Technical Manager (eventually Technical Director – was that OK Mum?) and there is no doubt that my technical knowledge was essential in the production of our pesticide materials and the design of training courses for our new staff.
I have no understanding of what a current science degree is like, and whether science graduates have the same woke tuition that the arts and humanities now experience, but would be interested to hear if any others on this blag have comparisons to share.
80
We had a ‘Mr Rentokil’ here in OZ, Christopher Dale Flannery was a Melbourne criminal, off topic I know.
20
Looks like “Stopthesethings” has returned from WordPress purgatory.
40
On a sidenote, I watched a video today where junior schoolchildren are being taught that 1÷0=0.
The parent complained but the principal sided with the teacher.
If x÷y=z, then z*y=x, so 0*0=1 by their thinking.
Forget uni teachings if the basic like this are being taught as real.
Who’s going to run and repair the modern world if the next generation (if they make it to adulthood) is this retarded?
Logan’s Run.
80
“I watched a video today where junior schoolchildren are being taught that 1÷0=0.”
Graduates of that thinking likely designed the Rozelle Interchange.
30
I’ve been watching the US higher education system in areas like range science, forestry and the like since the early 1970’s so some observations along the way –
Re US companies hiring Bachelors degrees –
At that time a US Bachelors degree was a catch up on a lot of things we were expeted to have aquired by matriculation – so a lot of remedial. Even basic English communication – there was one school district where those matriculating hadn’t formally met English.
I showed my matriculation English exam papers to an English major. Her comment was “Interesting – I’ll see some of that in third year”
To get employed in those streams needed a masters degree for starters
And the “slant in grades” was already there based on racial type and sporting scholarship – remember when “Kawphy” was a spell checker tester – and where the story came from?
And my experience suggested that the lower eschelons of that education system were well esconced in the airport immigration desk staff of that time as “the world’s best bureaurats”
40
Emergency video from Liz Gunn about the situation in New Zealand.
They are arresting the person who wants data transparency. They should be arresting the corrupt members of the New Zealand Ministry of Health who are refusing to look at the data and prove it is safe.
New Zealand Covid-19 vaccination database admin turns whistleblower and reveals how many people died after taking bad batches of the Pfizer vaccine. This must be investigated. If this data of mass vaccine casualties is real there must be accountability.
70
I’m not sure this revelation that there are more important attributes than a degree for many corporations means that big companies are somehow devaluing academic achievement is probably due to other more important factors. Ie what ethnicity they are , what minority group, do they have any disabilities, are they male or female or better still something else. Are they a climate sceptic. The corporate worlds are run by HR departments who want like minded zombies. That’s what’s the take away from the fact that uni degrees aren’t necessary.
You don’t need to have been through University to be a like minded zombie, but it helps.
When it comes to wokeness big corporations are exactly the same as universities sometimes worse .
10
Also fits here (IMO)
Re air traffic control in USA
“Diversity plane crashes are coming”
https://notthebee.com/article/diversity-plane-crashes-are-coming
30
More on that
Tom Lehrer sang of “Ivy covered professors in ivy covered halls”
“College Professor: Higher Education Has Become a Threat to America”
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/12/college-professor-higher-education-has-become-threat-america/
I don’t know about the other professors but thoughts like that might shake the ivy
20
Addictive online gaming and digital distractions are dumbing down a generation of Australian teenagers as school results stagnate at the lowest level in two decades, the latest global testing reveals.
“OECD testing reveals that half Australia’s teenagers lack the mathematical ability expected at the age of 15, meaning they would fail to convert currency or calculate the price of an item on sale in a shop.”
“And 43 per cent of Australian teenagers cannot read to the minimum standard needed to interpret information on a public transport map.”
My daughter teaching in a primary school says they can’t get enough teachers proficient in maths.
10