…
By Jo Nova
“Plugged in and not charging”
In the deep freeze this week, people all over Canada and the USA are finding out how complicated it is to own an EV in cold weather.
Not only do the cars lose a hefty 30 to 50% of their range, but the battery itself can’t accept charge if it gets too cold, so EV’s need to precondition their batteries before they can start to charge. (To precondition is EV-jargon for “warming them up”.) However, there is a point, as temperatures fall, where batteries cannot even heat themselves enough so they can start charging. They have to drain the battery to charge the battery. It’s a death-spiral towards a frozen singularity.
How cold is too cold? The ideal temperature for charging an EV is 15 – 35°C (or 60-95 F) so some advise preconditioning the battery when it’s below 15C. But the charging speed declines as the chemical reactions slow down, and it reaches nothing at about 0°C (32F). So if the car is minus five, the battery won’t even accept a charge.
At the supercharging station in Oak Brook Chicago, people have been trying for days to charge their EVs, which are stuck immobile at the charging station while the queues grow. People without a home charger are rather screwed:
“Dead cars line parking lot due to frigid temps”
Dane Placko, Fox News
“Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent,” said Tyler Beard, who has been trying to recharge his Tesla at an Oak Brook Tesla supercharging station since Sunday afternoon. “And this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday.”
Beard was among the dozens of Tesla owners trying desperately to power up their cars at the Tesla supercharging station in Oak Brook. It was a scene mirrored with long lines and abandoned cars at scores of other charging stations around the Chicago area.
“This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously,” said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle.
So not only do we “need” a lot more superchargers, and a bigger grid, and more electricity, but we probably need to enclose and heat those garages as well, and maybe put in some hotel rooms and office space for people to do something while they wait…
Just read the dramas of one poor EV driver who “forgot to plug the car in at -39°C one night.
The battery was at 28% but when he woke up the battery was 0% with warnings that the vehicle was shutting down. He tried to run to the house to grab the charger, but it was too late. When he returned — everything was dead to the point he couldn’t charge it. He rang the Tesla helpline and they sent someone out to jump start the 12V battery. But charging still didn’t work.
He pleaded for advice: “right now passenger side window is half down and stuck, both batteries are dead. I can’t charge main battery until I can charge 12V I guess. I bought 12V charger from Home Depot. Even this thing not charging 12V. I did some research and found out that this battery charger can’t charge a dead battery. Nearest Tesla station is Edmonton and I’m Grande Praire. Towing cost will be more than 500. I bought Tesla December 22. Any thoughts or suggestions…”
Maybe he can run an electric blanket out from the house and warm up the battery?
“In winter behavior must be adjusted”
Cars can lose 30-50% of their range in the cold. Allegedly this is mostly because the humans run the car heater to stay warm. In a combustion engine car there is waste heat to spare, but in an EV, every kWh of heating means a kWh of shorter range.
Perhaps drive in a ski suit?
The Biggest Evidence for the Folly of the EV Push May Be Happening Right Now
PJ MEdia
“All cars lose efficiency in the cold weather,” explains Andrew Garberson at Recurrent. “However, drivers only really worry about it when it comes to electric cars, since the lower efficiency translates directly to lower range. For EV owners in colder climates, like northern portions of the United States and Canada, daily driving and charging behaviors must be adjusted in winter months.
“Recurrent analyzed the cold-weather behavior of 18 different EVs and found that these batteries performed at about 70% capacity in temperatures below freezing. Obviously, each vehicle is different, but an average of 70% means that some vehicles did much worse. The worst offenders were the Volkswagen 1D4, which lost 46% of its capacity, and the Chevy Bolt, which saw a 42% drop.
What’s the main culprit? It’s drivers and passengers trying to keep warm.
“The major reason that EVs lose range in the winter is due to cabin heating to keep the driver and passengers warm”
So some of these dramas will be solved as people learn to “precondition” the car, stay home on cold days, wear warmer clothing, not run the car below 20%, or leave a car with low charge out on the street. Sounds like fun.
Right now there are a lot of very exasperated EV drivers who might not want to try “behaviour change” next winter.
The media and government have completely misled people about the practicalities of owning an EV in winter
A good summary of the situation:
It’s all just to much pain for too little gain, done in a rush, and for no good reason.
hat tip to Penguinite, Col A, Red Edwards, another ian, Willie Soon. Jim Simpson
This morning in Northeastern Ohio it was 7F (-14c) and I needed to go to the store, so I got in my Subaru Forrester and it started up easily and got me to the to store and back home with no problems. I’m really glad I don’t own an EV.
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If it gets to -40 C you may have a problem with your lead-acid battery and starting your car. If so keep a spare battery inside to swap out if necessary
-40 to +55 degrees Celsius; optimum storage conditions are approx. +25 to +27 degrees Celsius. These criteria apply to all lead-acid batteries
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I have had no trouble starting my car at -5F (-20c). If it gets down to -40F (-40c), I’ll probably have bigger problems to worry about than whether my car will start.
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And that is exactly why generations of motorists in the Great White North drove vehicles with block and battery heaters. Pull into your garage / carport, pop the ‘hood” and plug in the electrically-powered heater. This will stop the car battery freezing and failing and prevent the engine bloc and is precious oil turning to a gel, or perhaps the block actually cracking. There is a possible reason that such places see different “seasonal” grades of fuel at the pumps, as well. In good-old Siberia, it has long been the practice to either keep trucks idling ll night or building linear fires under the chassis, from end to end. As some of us have noticed, steel becomes quite brittle at low temperatures. Keeping the chassis rails and drive train “warm” is a handy way to stop your truck snapping in two at the first pothole.
Here in soggy old Queensland, having your vehicle fully or partially immersed in muddy water is a more common hazard, especially in Summer. Snakes seeking refuge are another thing to note.
Not only should you “drive to the conditions”, but store and maintain accordingly. An overheated lead-acid battery may spit out a bit of acid at high temperatures, but a “hot” Lithium Ion battery pack may cost you your car, your house and your family. The EV boosters need to be taken out the back of the bike shed for some serious attitude adjustment. NONE of them seems capable of learning ANYTHING from REAL technical history. Probably because the only “science” they know is POLITICAL ‘science”.
I’m off to make a coffee and listen to my lawn and garden grow.
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” pop the hood ”
I once had a ’57 Ford and used an oil heating dip-stick but on seriously cold nights I would get up at 2 a.m. and drive it for 15 miles. That worked — not fun.
Next car had a ‘block heater’ with a cord that came out through the grill. So that put an end to the pop-the-hood technique.
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From the great white north currently, recently warmed up from a spate of -30 C and lower.
FWIW most of us have block heaters in the Canadian prairies in our ICE vehicles. Uptake through the rest of the country is variable depending on what temperature you traditionally see. And our block heater cords hang out the front of the grill, because if you’re using them, you don’t want to keep popping the hood. Most cars have extension cords in them and most paid parking has power outlets (typically cycle on and off on 20 minute changes). If you have a garage, it’s doubtful you plug in the car, the garage tends to keep the ambient air temperature a solid 10 C or so warmer, so if it’s -25C outside, it’s a positively balmy -15C in the garage. Carports are not surprisingly less effective so plugging in is prudent.
If your battery is 5 or fewer years old, they seldom fail, unless you’ve left your car outside for a considerable period of time (weeks) in the cold. It may not be happy to start, but that’s more to do with the oil being thickened by the cold. Those of us that pay attention to our oil change it over to a 5W30 in the winter for easier starting – seasonal oil is more effective than seasonal fuel and our gas stations in the prairies don’t change grades through the years any longer. The aforementioned block heater only heats the oil pan, as you ascribe.
A friend owns an EV (Tesla) and I was quite curious and he was quite honest. He purchased it when fuel hit over $2.00/L here. Seemed prudent in the summer. In the winter his commute to work is <10 km. He goes to the gym at lunch and returns to work (<10km). Then he goes home from work. Starts the day at 90% charge. End of the day with temperatures lower than -20C he returns home with less than 20% charge on battery. That's your functional range for a Tesla at -20C with a normal daytime routine. He has a heated/insulated garage as well, not something normal in Canada for must of us plebs.
By comparison my ICE vehicle travels roughly the same distance each day and I fill up about every two weeks when I hit half a tank. Fuel economy drops fairly substantially in the cold as well, probably about 20% versus summer months.
30
Old trick in that case is a cup of hot water. Cup of coffee for yourself, cup of hot water over the battery for the car.
These car might benifit from some kind external battery heating system, like a simple radiator under the battery normally empty but can be filled with hot water.
30
Buying EV in spring or summer, wondering in winter 😀
Nobody told them 😀
But buying EV save the world 😀
360
People look at potential homes in nice weather, note the idyllic river or sea close by and don’t realise that come winter that water could be coursing through their new home
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https://www.rheinpfalz.de/cms_media/module_img/11977/5988894_1_articledetail_248315042.webp
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Fortunately, with global boiling within a couple of years no one will need to worry about the cold and subsequent poor performance from their EV
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What happens to batteries if it’s to warm ? 😀
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Bad things…but you get to meet a great bunch of firemen and entertain the neighbors.
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Have worked in locations where interior temperatures were over 50C. No problems with conventional lead acid batteries.
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It’s when they get to 1000 degrees C you have to worry.
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Good.
Most people who buy EVs are probably woke virtue signalers who likely support “15 Minute Cities”.
Their immobility will give them a taste of what it’s like to live in those 15 Minute Cities.
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‘15 minute cities’ AKA ‘open air prisons’??
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I wonder how many also have an ICE vehicle for the holidays.
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John B, my virtue signalling Lawyer next door neighbour has exactly that……lovely planet saving Tesla and a lovely diesel spewing VW transporter for the soccer mum wife !!!!!!! Hypocrite be thy name…
50
With all those proposed (or existing) electric emergency and military vehicles, what could possibly go wrong?
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TIThiis why the Elites at Davos are chauffeured in ICE vehicles, not EVs, at least that was the case last year as per a Rebel News interview with one of the chauffeurs.
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*First words were meant to be “This is”, not pseudorandom letters…
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“Get there or get warm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpFXi4OHOAA&list=WL&index=1
Man looses it as he drives an EV in the UK winter.
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Funny how my ic car will supply bulk heat right up to the time the engine stops due to lack of fuel.
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Note also that the senior drones of the Australian Government don’t have EVs for their official vehicles, even though they expect us to drive them.
And it doesn’t even get cold enough in Australia to affect battery life.
The usual double standards of the Left apply, without which they would have no standards whatsoever.
Of course, the reason given is BS.
EVs have PLENTY of power, it’s battery capacity they don’t have and they are not prepared to admit that.
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What about the well stocked bar?
80
A Wheels Magazine road test a couple of years ago between a Tesla SUV top of the range EV and a Toyota Land Cruiser 4WD SUV diesel both towing identical caravans (not large) drove from Penrith Western Sydney to Bathurst together.
Both towed the caravan easily on the hills.
But the Tesla EV was unable to travel past Bathurst without recharging but the Toyota ICEV had more than enough fuel to continue West past Dubbo NSW.
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Interesting start point forma Sydney to Dubbo test.
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Not too long ago, a pair of cars went on a ‘long distance’ journey. Long distance for America. Not by Australian standards. Anyhow the electric car had to stop constantly to recharge, deal with broken rechargers, hunt for working rechargers in the middle of the night, etc. It only won the contest (by a marginal amount) because the Model-T Ford broke down several times.
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THIS morning I start a 900km road trip in an ICE vehicle.
I will not need to stop for two one hour+ stops to recharge.
I might need one petrol stop (5 mins), but the car may make it on one tank.
I will only stop for REST breaks.
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Likewise David…a 600k round trip today and the only need to stop is for toilet breaks, a walk around the car and a drink. total dead time …about 10 minutes tops and all on one tank of petrol that will still last a few days when I get back. I’m off to pick up a Codan 2110…you will know what that is.
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Nice, Glenn.
Personal use or work?
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Personal use David….I have an Amatuer Radio license as you do( VK4BG ). Been after one for some time..they are hard to find s/hand and prohibitively expensive when new.
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I do not think this song was written for Tesla Drivers
Get your motor runnin’
Head out on the highway
Looking for adventure
In whatever comes our way
Yeah, darlin’ gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space
I like smoke and lightnin’
Heavy metal thunder
Racing with the wind
And the feeling that I’m under
Yeah, darlin’ gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93fAJe8WVjA&ab_channel=Steppenwolf-Topic
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Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha … etc.
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My reaction exactly! Its all very funny 😁
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Frozen EVs have been a problem every year for at least a decade, but the MSM has never reported it before. If anything the MSM has purposefully ignored the story or covered it up, to maintain the EV narrative.
But now the MSM has changed its tune, they are reporting about frozen Teslas everywhere. So why the sudden turn around?
I think it’s because Elon bought Twitter, and he is not the fellow Leftist that they once thought he was. If they can destroy his car business, they will destroy him. I think this is what we are witnessing here.
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Interesting point Klem. And, very possible.
Nothing on Earth hates like a jilted Marxist.
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To hell with EV’s, they should be re-named VSVs or Virtue Signal Vehicles for suckers!
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Norway doesn’t have these charging problems. Nobody else should hsve them either.
/smug
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That is partially true about Norway but with lots of caveats
https://www.fastcompany.com/91011373/evs-work-fine-in-the-cold-in-norway-heres-how-they-do-it
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It amuses me how these articles saying that EVs can be made to work in cold weather all comment that ICE vehicles are adversely affected by cold weather too. Yeah, right. As one commenter said recently in reply to an article claiming that EVs perform better in cold than ICEs (yes it really did claim that, but without any numbers or references):
I never ever thought about winter range until EV so ICE is far superior that way
and another:
the simple fact is that mileage in gas cars is way less affected in winter, to the point that most folks don’t even notice
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So you gotta wrap your car in a “battery blanket” which draws God-knows how many watts for the 23 hours a day you’re not driving for 50 days a year in the coldest period.
Why would anyone bother if the other option is a traditional vehicle.
Fossil fuels are nature’s battery. There’s none better.
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Norway is such a small country that you could drive right across it and back on a single charge.
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Not from north to south you couldn’t. Nor vice=veresa.
20
Could Teslas be the next Ford Edsel?
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It was just plain ugly. And the shape of the grill was in very poor taste.
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Here’s an idea for the rich con merchants, just have 2 cars an EV TOXIC car for summer and a RELIABLE ICE car for winter + you can use the ICE heater.
Silly me on second thoughts that’s what they do anyway , but poorer silly nut jobs, can’t drive their EVs or CHARGE their EVs or use the EV’s HEATER during the coldest winters.
IOWs don’t buy an EV if you want to travel in the winter or just stay home and eat less.
And don’t visit our high country in the winter or risk Canberra on their coldest winter days and very cold nights.
But Putin and Xi etc will be loving these stories and laughing at our expense.
The OECD countries’ leaders have gone BARKING MAD.
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‘Frozen singularity’ & ‘wear a ski suit’
My nomination for WORD OF THE YEAR
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But, but …. it’s the warmest year in MILLIONS of years!
I blame Insurrectionists.
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The single most important reason not to buy an EV.
Woke governments want to force you to buy one.
Understand this and all the other problems with EVs fall into place – such as poor range (especiallly in cold weather), high depreciation, high repair costs, high insurance costs, lack of charging infrastructure and risk of catching on fire.
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I feel sorry for the “Rev Heads” and “Summer Nats” etc. I can’t see EVs ever providing the same Bathurst/Grand Prix spectacle
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They could introduce a new class at Bathurst, possibly installing special safety bumpers down the sides of the road.
Imagine the possibilities and the savings. There’s be no need to plan a firework display at the end of the race.
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Well, here we are at this years Bathurst 1000, the 2035 Edition of this famous race, now having run only electric vehicles for the past five years!
We have an interview with last year’s winner Dave Smith.
“Well, Dave, how do you think you’ll go this year then?”
“Hey, thanks Andrew, things look really exciting this year. A couple of drivers have said anecdotally that they think they saw a spectator up on the Mountain.”
“That’s so good to hear Dave. Well, onto the car you have this year, how do you think you’ll go.”
“Well Andrew, we think we have a good shot this year of equalling our win from last year. The car is so much better too, and we think we have a good chance of breaking last year’s race record of four days, three hours and 15 Minutes!!!!!”
Tony.
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The Pit Crews will love the EV Bathurst 1000 – they will now have a whole hour to change the tires while the cars recharge after every 200 km.
30
Sadly,..i doubt they will even make 200km at racing speeds..
If they use a 100 kWh battery, and need say 300 kW of power average to be competitive, with a 160+ kmh average lap speed…..
..then it is apparent that the pack will only last about 20 mins (30 mins max ?).
At 160km/h , even 30 mins is only 80 kms !
So, they would have to be using swapable packs !
10
Motor racing is slowly succumbing to the woke virus anyway. Apart from the growing number of EV categories – all of them boring, severely hamstrung by limited range or both – grid girls have mostly been banned (not PC), various new categories catering only for women have been introduced and championship/team owners are all scrambling around trying to ‘diversify’ their drivers. All that and they are also creating world championship rounds in countries with little or no motor sport heritage or history (or in some cases, interest). Commentators too are clearly chosen according to a diversity tick box.
There is also a new category for electric offroaders where each team must comprise both a male and a female driver. It’s clear from the marketing BS released so far that the not-so-cunning plan is to manufacture a ‘world champion’ female driver, simply on the basis that she shared a car with some fast bloke.
Thankfully, this nonsense is mostly affecting the top level categories and club or even national level events are still enjoyable. In fact, the lower down the pecking order you go, the more welcoming and relaxed the events tend to be.
40
Doing my first work trip after holidays today. Will probably clock up at least 600 km. I’ve slept well all night and did not have to worry about whether the wind was blowing, if the car was warm or if the charging mechanism was working Ok. I’ve got no idea how much charge ( fuel ) the vehicle has because I have not driven it for 2 weeks. But that doesn’t matter, because there are lots of charging points ( fuel stations ) along the way. After a quick warm up (diesel ) it will no doubt start first try. There will be no system upgrades or booting of the cars operating system. It’s a bit cool this morning so maybe the heater will be working , and then later today the A/C will probably keep the cab at about 22˚C. If I stop for fuel it will be at the most convenient location and usually accompanied by excellent dining facilities. If for fuel only, maybe 5 minutes tops, with coffee maybe 10 mins. A quick chat with friendly cashier and then I’m on my way. There will be lots of other happy, relaxed travellers doing the exact same thing. Why would anyone want to change from that?
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Exactly and how many chargers are sited where there are restrooms and a cafe.
110
EV rechargers not sited where there are restrooms and a cafe will be an open target for thieves once word gets around about how much copper there in in those thick fast charging leads.
30
And if you do happen to run out of fuel, it’s a relatively quick trip for roadside assistance to bring some fuel to get you going. If an EV runs out of electricity, the options are a truck with a big battery to recharge or a truck with an ICE engine to power a generator.
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No, roadside assist will deliver a jerry can of electricity.
sarc.
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Ha ha ha… couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch of virtue-signalling suckers. And for extra irony, there’s much evidence Earth is currently entering a new mini-ice age. Regardless of the Warmists insisting just the opposite.
Bonus prize: actual electric robots (eg Chinese police drones and solar-battery surveillance cameras) will be dead robots too.
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“some advise preconditioning the battery when it’s below 15C.”
Too bad if you have 2% left and it’s 30 below.
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Yes – It’s what happens when you try to pimp up and supercharge up your milk float 😁️. How fast can a battery powered milk float go?
90
As black out Bowen says in todays Spooner “there’s no disaster if it means even one fewer carbon footprint”. And coming for your ICE!
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So, if you live in a cold climate, you lose the top 20-30 of battery capacity. The makers also recommend you dont go lower than 20%. So really you only have 50-60% of what has been repeatedly shown to be an inflated range figure (they seem to be able to reliably overstate it, but not reliably get it right in a reasonable margin)
In icy conditions you need to spend more time charging more frequently, and of course hope that whatever you come in with is enogh for pre conditioning to work. Sounds like quite a deal. They really are California cars arent they? and then only if you don’t ski.
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So, how much range is lost by running the A/C in summer?
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Presumably some, but not as much.
I can only speak from experience. Our typical cold weather temperatures in winter where I live generally average below 0C from some time in November until typically April. Our summer temperatures average around 15C at night but June through end of August, daytime highs are usually over 25C with many days above 30C (nothing comparable to much of Australia in summer, but it’s what we got). My fuel consumption in winter I’d gauge at about 20% lower than summer fuel consumption.
I used to drive a fair bit as I commuted about 100 km each way to work. Same car had a range of about 720 km per tank in summer. It dropped to about 600 km in winter. Did not have command start in the car (remote starter) so I seldom let it sit for long periods to warm up in winter. 30-60 seconds was enough to get the oil moving in subzero temperatures. Heater wasn’t producing heat until the car had been on for about ten minutes.
20
So what happens when you must travel during a heatwave and return fairly quickly as well?
Say from Melbourne to Bathurst and hot days over 40 C?
Would anyone really want to attempt that 48 hour ( 2 days return trip) journey without your AC running?
Of course EVs would be a very uncomfortable journey and you and your family would be very pissed off to say the least. On the contrary travelling in an ICE car would be very comfortable and very cool if you so desired it.
Also rest or fuel stops would be no problems at all, if you wanted to get to your destination quickly.
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So now we have ICE vehicles and non-ice vehicles
90
Q. What does someone with diarrhoea have in common with the owner of an EV?
A. They both hope they’ll make it home!
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The first guy will have a quicker run though
40
News this morning…
. Tesla have suspended sales of their Model 3 in Australia…INDEFINITELY ,!
Apparently due to a non compliance “stop sales” order from safety authorities.
..something to do with seat belt anchorage points ?
https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-3-deliveries-to-be-halted/
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With more renewable wind and solar sourced energy, governments are already looking to control the flow of electricity into or out of any EV plugged into the grid. What happens in these conditions of extreme demand, especially if governments succeed in dumping gas driven internal house heating, and run into a power crisis? Potentially everything grinds to a halt in desperation to prevent hypothermic deaths on a grand scale.
50
See TEXAS where their electric Council (which for some strange reason has Reliable in it name) is counsiling people to avoid using too much electricity at peak hours. This is because of a particular bias for windmills, which don’t work much in very cold weather when people want more heat.
3 years ago, they had a disastrous time when it turned out that ERCOT had demanded that natural gas pumps (for pipelines) ran on “renewable electricity”. The pumps didn’t work so people didn’t have gas AND electricity. No one thoughs how many died – apparently 300.
90
IIRC that was inflicted on ERCOT, not by ERCOT
10
People have become accustomed to the mobile/cell phone accompanying them wherever they manage to wander. And the locations of Cell towers have proliferated to the point where you (city dwellers at least) will have a usable signal.
And the phone manufacturers in their efforts to continually reduce the size of the phones are no making the internal batteries non-accessible, not normally/easily replaceable as a result. Consumers have reacted and the law makers/regulators are now beginning to require in phones that the battery be accessible and replaceable.
When will this realization force the design of BEVs to follow the same sort of design rules? ie accessible and replaceable batteries.
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NIO, chinese startup electric car company, has a replaceable battery which can be replaced in about 10 minutes with a fully charged one. The battery goes off to be recharged when electricity is available at the lower cost.
Unfortunately the actual range is less, about half, so frequent trips to the swap station.
No idea how that is “working” out in Manchuria.
20
The vapid virtue signalers and their EV’s have no idea that they are today’s “useful idiots”.
There isn’t enough Lithium on the entire planet to convert the entire ICE fleet to BEV. The parisite class never intended this to be so. Only they, the oh-so deserving “elite” are to have personal transportation. The peasants trapped in their 15 min digital gulags won’t need this, according to the parasite class. They will be happily distracted with a supposedly increased chocolate ration, fake news about the current war with Oceiania and TV game shows with B grade celebrities trying to regain influence by getting cockroaches poured down their breathing tubes while in underwater coffins. (You say I should be ashamed for what I participated in, but no underwarter coffins imploded. A sad use of an industrial design degree I understand. But no B grade celeberties were drowned. They just got a preview of the Klaus Shwab diet before that was even a thing).
Stop. Stop and think. Are police cars going EV? What about those armoured “bearcat” diesel powered dispensers of rubber bullet firing, pepper spraying, granny bashing thugs? Ever seen one of those filling up a a sevice station with the peasants? No, no you havent. Stop. Stop and think about that.
The parisite class are utterly dependant on the granny bashing thugs to rule without consent. But the granny bashing thugs have an achillies heel: total dependance on ICE vehicles they cannot safely refuel at peasant service stations …
And the problem with non-peasant refueling, is that it is not dispersed.
Power at a point, or something like that …
80
If you are going to argue a point, at least get some facts straight !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium
But…. Maybe you were thinking of Cobalt,..or Copper,…. or any one of the other key materials essential for EVs, but limited in availability. ?
11
Chad, I’m somewhat glad you, as my opposition, have no idea what the purpose of my comment was about.
Uneconomically extractable lithium is an irrelevance.
The vicious perpetrators of the worst medical disaster in human history rely upon ICE vehicles. Only the plebeians are using BEV.
The Enforcers of the Covid nazi policies use ICE vehicles exclusively. They don’t refuel where “worthless plebeians” do.
The folks who didn’t take the toxic jabs, We know where they refuel their ICE vehicles. We know.
Good luck!
40
Lithium prices have dropped enough that miners are scaling back operations in Australia. Both Albermarle and Core Lithium have taken actions to save money. Renascor, a graphite producer has also suffered a share price dive.
There are likely many reasons for Australian mining companies to be having some problems, but operational planning is not typically based on events that are short and transient, so I wonder what it could mean – maybe nothing, who knows.
70
The ABC has a story about Albermarle:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-18/kemerton-lithium-project-on-backburner-blow-to-mining-sector/103364330
Cheers
Dave B
30
They’re still making a very good profit based on 2022-23 figures:
“In Australia, the five largest lithium mines (covering 99% of Australian spodumene production) reported their average costs of production per tonne over the 2022–23 financial year to range from A$670 to A$1,225 (US$450 per tonne and US$823 per tonne, respectively).
The spot price of spodumene averaged about US$3,840 per tonne in 2023. The government expects the lithium spodumene price to fall to US$2,300 in 2024 and US$2,200 in 2025.”
https://www.fool.com.au/2024/01/09/have-lithium-prices-finally-bottomed/
Plenty of margin there.
What’s happening (and David of Cooyal’s reference confirms) is that capital investment in expanded supply is being shuttered. Why? Because the high prices up to now had brought a lot of new producers of spodumene into the market.
Rest assured you’ll see a great deal more boosterism for electric batteries and EVs from the usual suspects – most of whom have money tied up in the game.
20
Well, here’s the solution.
EV’s charged by burning wood
https://youtu.be/Wox47IYvIeQ?si=dhi3HDAc74Y26awv
Park your EV’s nice and close to the fire.😆
Oh, the carbon and CO2…😆
/cant type, laughing.
50
Oh but only if they had an EV road rescue like they have in WA.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-17/new-electric-vehicle-roadside-assistance-van-launched/103350262
gosh 15 km additional range after 20 mins of charge. Gee 4 litres will get me close to 60 k’s and I won’t have to wait 20 mins if my road side assist drop of the petrol for me. Now if I have to walk to the nearest servo…
Either way, I’d probably have to wait an hour for road side assist to turn up
20
RACWA and the local ‘The West Australian’ newspaper are totally imbued with the idea of EVs. Again, there seems nothing that will push either to address the vehicle failings nor the point about what happens when an energy system based primarily on renewables, runs out of puff. This blindness is the characteristic failing of supposedly learned commentators that thoughtlessly – or otherwise – refuse to forward think about obvious outcome failings of all these renewables based systems. Also, why is the price of lithium below the price of a profit if the real world belief is this is wherewe ALL are going? Could it be more investers are seeing renewables as definitely not the way the world is going as more and more potentially disastrous failures are occuring every step along the way.
30
Also, why is the price of lithium below the price of a profit if the real world belief is this is wherewe ALL are going
That is likely incorrect. See 33.1.1 above for cost and price data.
00
‘capital investment in expanded supply is being shuttered. Why? Because the high prices up to now had brought a lot of new producers of spodumene into the market.’
This doesn’t appear logical. I can see current miners limiting production if the idea is to maintain high prices. It doesn’t explain why new mining investments by other investors would soften. Logically the maintained high price by current producers reducing output only acts as bait for new entries into the market. The more logical approach to an investor would be lack of known new ore bodies or knowledge only of lodes of limited size or poorer quality with higher costs of production. You infer there is and will be no falling off of demand; it will increase for years.
The alternative argument to that is the increasing knowledge of the unreliability or danger of the end product to users becomes more widely known to consumers and dissuades buying of the end products. Or the remedial price forces up the costs of the vehicles. OR people realise that governments see their EV investments as a cheap government method of extending the power available in the grid when these things are charged – as has already been canvassed. Governments make laws that basically give the governments the right to commandeer the vehicles as essential sources of power that must be made available to the general public when the national grid is stressed. That creates unreliability of availability of a person’s owned asset. The connotations of that move for businesses and worker mobility don’t bear thinking about.
00
I also was thinking when there is snow in the USA they salt the roads to make it safer. I watch a you tube channel Just Rolled In and see so many clips of cars with so much rust in the sub frames of cars, assuming the road salting hastens the rust. Wondering what’s the impact of the road salting could have on the EV battery compartments?
80
Also reversing an EV down a boat ramp to launch a boat or jet ski can submerge the battery pack under salt water!
30
Stone Age: EVs Charged Up By Burning Wood!
20
Not only EVs get stuck in the global warming, also trucks and ICEs. Thousands get stranded on the motorways of Southern Germany, Belgium and Northern France because of global warming bring copious quantities of snow.
20
For every E.V. car sold,
Has the unfortunate buyer been told,
That they may need to discharge,
Before they can recharge,
When the weather turns frosty and cold.
70
Hertz is now selling much of its Tesla fleet.
They started at a price of US$23,000 and now it is down to US$14,000!
A stampede of buyer.
30
Normal lead acid batteries prefer a warm environment for charging which is provided when you drive the vehicle unless the battery is stored other than under the bonnet. The temperature also has an effect on battery testing as my tester asks if the temperature is above or below freezing. This changes the test result as it applies a crude adjustment for temperature. I am considering the electric heat mats you can get for seed propagation to warm the battery when charging in cold weather.
20
Think of the new heated clothes fashion collection. Plug your road warrior EV driving suit into your personal power port.
Better yet! Use induction heating 😃😃😃
20
DFES have told Kalgoorlie folk to be ready for electric power to be out for up to a week. Oops, better carry a genset in that Tesla!
10
Wasn’t only EVs that suffered. The fuel pumps also went down so there were reports of people travelling almost 50KM to refuel in zones not affected by the power failure.
10
I wish I knew who this person was that wanted to debate with me when I said the hybrid is the future. He mocked me, and smugly dug in insisting EV’s are the future. Hybrids never need to be plugged in. How foolish to think Ev’s are anything but junk.
20