Image by GrumpyBeere
By Jo Nova
Last year the acceleration in EV sales stopped accelerating. The industry was still growing they said, just not quite as fast. Now, so soon, the sales are actually falling. In the UK, EV sales dropped off a cliff, falling 25% last month. Perhaps it was just a bad month? But in California, home of global green dreams, sales have also declined, and for the last two quarters. Ominously, this is happening despite government decrees insisting every new car sold in 2035 will be an EV. Sales are supposed to be launching into orbit. Something is very wrong.
Meanwhile Hertz has taken yet another step away from their EV quest — after announcing they were selling off a third of their EV fleet at bargain basement prices, now they are cancelling plans to buy 65,000 Polestars. This was a $3 billion deal, and to let them out of it, Polestar has, by golly, demanded Hertz give them the right to buy back the old Polestars that Hertz wants to sell — that way Polestar can keep the older models off the secondhard market and stop the value from falling the same dire way the secondhand Teslas have.
Polestar is a Volvo spin off company, and now we understand why last week Volvo announced it would stop funding Polestar and reduce its shareholding. They knew what was coming.
Not to put too fine a point on the state of the EV market, but Ford is losing $38,000 per EV. This means the more EVs they sell, the poorer the company gets. They made $10 billion dollars in profits last year, yet the balance sheet shows they lost about $5 billion just on EVs. This puts them in the bizarre position that they could theoretically give away the entire EV production line and boost company profits by 50%. It’s that bad…
Indeed it’s so truly awful, that the UK Lords are calling for the government to counter the misinformation campaign filled with “mistruths”. The industry must be at deaths door.
Private buyers slam brakes on electric vehicles
Robert Lea. The Times
Britons appear to be turning their backs on new electric cars, with the number of zero-emission vehicles sold to private buyers falling by 25 per cent last month.
The latest figures from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) prompted the industry body to cut forecasts on the proportion of the total market that will go electric this year.
California EV Sales Go On The Decline – Has The State Run Out Of Buyers Willing To Believe The Dream?
Agent 009, Autospies
Despite a sustained and seemingly unstoppable growth, the registration of battery-electric vehicles in California experienced a downturn in the last quarter of the previous year. Notably, EV sales have consecutively declined for two quarters, even as California authorities set a 2035 deadline for all new vehicle registrations to be zero-emission.
California recorded 89,993 registrations for electric light passenger vehicles in the fourth quarter, marking a 10 percent decrease from the 101,151 recorded in the third quarter.
What’s a free market for anyway? Perhaps to save Ford shareholders $5,000 million dollars?
Ford Could Get 50% More Profit Without EVs
By Stephen Wilmot, The Wall Street Journal
Ford’s “Pro” business, which comprises its sales to companies, is the engine behind Ford’s results. It made $7.2 billion of operating profit last year, and the company expects that to rise to at least $8 billion in 2024. The supersize Super Duty, which is mainly a professional product, is a key reason. It is also easier to sell software to businesses than consumers, who can get a lot for free.
Meanwhile, electric vehicles lost $4.7 billion last year, and the company sees the losses deepening to between $5 billion and $5.5 billion this year. To put this another way, if Ford weren’t selling its Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning models and investing in a new generation of products to replace them, its adjusted operating profit would be 50% higher.
When all else fails, and there’s no way to answer the critics, silence them instead
Electric cars: Lords urge action on ‘misinformation’ in press
Esme Stallard, BBC
Baroness Parminter, chair of the committee, told the BBC that both government officials and other witnesses to the enquiry had reported reading disinformation on the subject in national newspapers.
“We have seen a concerted effort to scare people… we have seen articles saying that cars are catching fire – but had evidence that the fire risk is absolutely the same as [petrol and diesel] cars,” she said.
Richard Bruce, Director of Transport Decarbonisation at the Department for Transport, conceded there was a problem…”There is an anti-EV story in the papers almost every day. Sometimes there are many stories, almost all of which are based on misconceptions and mistruths, unfortunately.”
The bottom line: don’t let them speak, but make them give us more money:
As well as tackling misinformation the committee also called on the government to unlock funding more quickly for local authorities to install charging infrastructure.
And just at this moment Australia is about to bring in rules to force Australians to buy EVs so we can save the World, or make some international bankers rich, whichever comes first.
Telsa image by ben saida from Pixabay
My concern is that EV companies will start being like wind and solar plantations and demand via government that taxpayers/consumers subsidise them (directly or indirectly).
This is in addition to the subsidies already afforded to EVs like lower road and other taxes, purchase incentives (rebates), installation of government funded charging stations etc..
This would of course also include measures like banning of ICE vehicles and compulsory purchase arrangements of EVs by government departments etc..
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An ICE buy-back scheme? Julia Gillard has already tried “cash for clunkers” and a carbon tax so not much left for BOBowen
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The emerging problem is that low cost entry level EV’s are hitting the market, BYD for one, targetting Tesla and upmarket alternatives.
A $20,000 EV is affordable, a $5,000 one very much so.
Your $80,000 Tesla is going to have a shocking secondhand value, making them a bad buy, new or used.
A $5k EV will be disposable as a battery will be most of its value. The build quality will be crap at that price point, but they are chinese so that’s expected.
Something goes wrong, junk the car. Saving the planet eh…
We need fields of green, not green waste.
But then it was never a serious solution to the non-existant crisis was it, just a means of control.
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The spendy EVs are already heavily subsidized. A 20K or a 5K one must be almost entirely other people’s money, or the quality is total crap. A modern day Yugo? Maybe even a modern day Trabant? I would never take one on a road trip. I can’t see these getting much traction in a free market. They would have little vanity appeal for the virtue signaling crowd. Those parking on the curb over night would probably be better off buying train and bus fare. That might be the plan….
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Who wants to drive an EV with a large chrome [Build Your Dreams] across the rear?
Why not do what [Great Wall Motors] did, they now brand their vehicles [GWM].
However, and I have been told that “BYD” are reasonably well built and not a bad drive, they still have range and recharging limitations with range shortening the more people on board and luggage carried, worst on country roads where annoying EV drivers most often stick to 80 KMH regardless of highway 100 KMH or 110 KMH Speed Zone.
On Sky television recently a guest panelist admitted to being an EV owner, not happy about it she said, savings according to her computerised records $60 for a year compared to her previous ICEV. And recharging problems like having to wait to use a charger for 45 minutes while another EV charged and then similar wait while her EV charged. And when mobile phone reception is poor or zero the required app to operate a recharging station will not connect.
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Apparently a plumber purchased a GWM ute before the brand name was changed, tradies called him The Great Wally.
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DM, I know you are much more across this than me, but, would I be right in saying the majority of these “free” charging stations dotted around the Country are powered by Coal, Gas, Hydro etc………..Hypocritical much ???
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And must bot forget the battery banks backing wind and solar hybrid system, with gas fired plants to charge them and as wind and solar operation back up.
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What part of “No thanks” do they not understand?
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Ask the insurance actuaries about why the insurance rates on electric cars have become so high. . .
It’s not based on “misinformation”.
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The rather smart folks at Toyota must be having a whole lot of fun!
That’s what you get for listening to your customers versus the politicians and activists.
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Another reason Leftist governments are pushing EVs so hard is that they are far more amenable to external control by Big Brother.
Apart from 24/7 tracing and tracking, and the possibility of remote operation as with Tesla, in large, relatively low population density countries like Australia, USA and Canada (and where there is still a significant proportion of the population who believe in freedom – a concept mocked by many on the Left)) it is impractical to put charging stations everywhere you might want to go. (In ICE vehicles you can just carry gerry cans or install long range fuel tanks.) In addition with smart electrical grids, Big Brother can control where, when and the cost of charging – or if they allow it at all.
Therefore you are restricted to a much smaller area of independent travel. In fact, the ultimate objective is to warehouse you in free range prisons with no personal transport, places known as “15 Minute Cities”. The Elites aren’t even denying their plans:
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They keep tightening the screws. I just heard on the radio that the Government wants to impose European “safety” standards on Australian cars which includes speed limiters. Like frogs in a pot gradually being boiled, they are taking away all our freedoms and requirements to think for ourselves and be responsible gradually and imposing the heavy hand of Big Brother whatever we do.
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I know many farmers who drive more than 15 minutes to get from the front gate to their house. Imagine doing the tank run in an electric car/ute. Alright if he carries a gen set in the back. Once outside the city bubble 15 minutes gets you nowhere. There are people who travel 90 minutes to travel from home in western Sydney to work because public transport just doesn’t suit. Do the rabid lefties really want people to change jobs to suit their mad ideas? A better solution is to vote them out while we still can. Madness prevails in NSW as they ban gas drilling offshore but promote wind turbines. The former upsets the ocean ecology but the latter saves the same thing. Idiots.
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The good Baroness Parminter, quoted above, has a degree in Theology, per the Wikithingy [that even I can edit] – so it must be true.
Obviously.
She, therefore is far better placed that an engineer or a scientist [or a bum boatie] to deal with religious matter, like the abhorrence of CO2, the sacrifices that we [not her] must make, the beatification of the Blessed Greta, etc.
Auto
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I think the Baroness is confusing risk and probability. Risk is probability multiplied by consequences. The probability of a fire in a battery electric vehicle might be comparable to the probability for an ICE vehicle. But the consequences are far, far more severe. I expected that BEVs would be banned after the Luton Airport fire. But no. Instead the authorities are trying to encourage us to buy more of the wretched things.
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Much like the Covid vaccines. The authorities, unless they are really dumb, know by now that the vaccines don’t work, cause serious side effects including death yet continue to promote them going so far as to continue to lock people out of certain jobs because they haven’t taken the jab. It’s three years since the mandates but to cave in now would be embarrassing for the “authorities” so they persist with the ridiculous mandate. They really are dangerous morons and should never be taken seriously in the future. Likewise with the EVs. They must know thay are a health hazard for both humans and the environment and if they don’t know they are much more dangerous than we already know.
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Never underestimate how thick the elite actually are.
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The UK house of Lords are blaming Mr Bean for the drop off in EV sales
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13056755/Is-publics-love-affair-electric-cars-House-Lords-committee-blames-comedian-green-motor-sales-stall-charging-points-UK-lie-EV-forecasts-missed-blame.html
Nothing to do with EV cars being unethically built, much too expensive, poor range and expensive insurance.
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Mr Bean was correct and right on the money. Gotta love it when a funny man
kicks them in the privates
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Guess who’s going to be cancelled next?
We can’t have a dissenting opinion can we?
Thank you for your service, Mr Atkinson.
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Let me think – who to believe?? On one hand we have someone qualified in electrical engineering and control systems, and on the other a supposed expert on the invisible man in the sky. Who best to grasp the subtleties re the EV madness?? Certainly a conundrum………..
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People are calling him to be Knighted for his comments. And it is worth noting Rowan Atkinson has a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and a Masters in Electrical Engineering from Oxford.
Also he was an early adapter to EVs so he is talking from both knowledge and experience. Unlike all of his detractors.
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Why would anyone want to buy these dangerous, practically useless heaps of crap?
If you are stupid enough then you should suffer the consequences and do it quietly.
Wait until they have to buy another battery or another EV and then it may dawn on them it’s a lot better to make the decision to just buy another new or SH ICE car and suffer the EV losses.
I’m still waiting to see how they’ll replace the fuel tax and the EXTRA costs involved if EVs are still being purchased in another 5 or 10 years?
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Not sure if it was for last month, the last quarter, or last year, but EV sales here plunged from 18 to 4%, with petrol & diesel making up 96% of new vehicles purchased.
Oops – zee plan eez not verkink!
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I’m all for a bit of schadenfreude at the expense of the EV industry, but the following quote is false.
“Not to put too fine a point on the state of the EV market, but Ford is losing $38,000 per EV. This means the more EV’s they sell, the poorer the company gets.”
Ford loses $38K per EV because it fails to move enough volume to offset it’s fixed costs. They’re investing billions in EVs and taking in hundreds of millions in revenue. If they sold more units, that $38K figure would shrink. If they sold WAY more units, that number would flip out of the red and into the black.
————————–
That said, back to the schadenfreude party. That $38K is old news based on ‘robust’ sales from last year.
The new number is a $65K loss per unit.
https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/ford-lost-47b-on-evs-last-year-or
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. “If they sold WAY more units, ”
Well that’s unlikely to happen now ,is it.
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I was going to make the classic joke about “yes, we lose money on every sale, but we’ll make it up in volume!” but it seems a bit inaccurate to say that they lose $38,000 (or $65,000) on every EV they sell. That implies that it costs $38,000 more to make one (incremental!) unit than what they sell it for. But the revenue and expenses lines aren’t broken down into fixed-overhead vs. per-unit, so we have no idea how much profit (or loss) they make on individual units. It’s not joking time yet, at least not that joke, unfortunately.
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As for why the EV market is slowing, it seems pretty obvious.
They have reached a saturation point among buyers in the luxury/upscale market, and have yet to figure out how to appeal to buyers in the economy market. The problem with focusing on the luxury market is that it is a tiny minority of the overall market. Until they find a way to appeal to the bottom 90% of the market, they are going to have trouble moving more units.
The problem is cracking that bottom 90% means tackling problems that may have nothing to do with the product itself. If you live in an apartment without off-street parking, an EV is probably not going to be viable option for you, no matter what the price point. Ditto for someone who lives in a rural area with little EV infrastructure and where driving long distances is the norm. Or if you live in a frigid northern city and are worried about your car turning into a brick during a cold snap.
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Steve it seems fairly obvious that a wealthy family would buy the latest high end Tesla to impress their rich friends, but also have a big ICE SUV to make long / SAFE trips in comfort during really cold or hot weather.
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Neville, I have exactly that next door………Young wealthy Solicitor 3 kids, nice house, Tesla for him and Wifey drives a dirty old Diesel VW Transporter to cart the kids……many of their visitors drive high end ICE OR Teslas…….no crappy BYD’s for them !!!
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As far as California goes, those that have bought battery cars have found the experience so bad that they have gone back to a normal car. Owners have already suffered from the dodgy Californian grid and been told not to charge their cars at times of shortages.
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I’ve always maintained that EV’s were a non solution to a non existent problem. About a year ago I gave them 5 years before the whole mess failed. Well, 4 years to go on my prediction and things look to be progressing as I thought they would. So far, the EV proponents have managed to emit more emissions in construction of an EV compared to an ICE vehicle, so have failed in this area, although more CO2 is a good thing, but don’t dare mention that at the launch of a new EV. Real range and running costs have not been as claimed and there are lots of secondhand EV’s for sale on various car sites, that are all 12-18 months old. People have tried them and want out.
I think I see a marketing disaster approaching at a distance. Lots on money about to be lost and maybe some companies as well.
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I think modern people are too busy, there isn’t time in their day to be waiting around for their conveyance to become ‘driveable’ and they aren’t wealthy enough to employ an EV sitter to do the waiting.
Hey, maybe there’s a job opening for young unemployed folk, have to have great CV though, no one wants to hand over the keys (card) to their $100K batterymobile to just anyone, oh well.
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This is how free markets work. Everybody rushes into a new technology, competition increases and the inefficient do not survive. It is the consumer who benefits. There are millions of happy EV drivers who are never going to an internal combustion vehicle.
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It is not a free market (which the Left don’t even believe in) at all when people and manufacturers are being constantly told by Big Brother that there is no future for ICE vehicles and they must adopt and adapt ASAP.
If people want to drive EVs because they are rich, poseurs, virtue signalers or their woke company provides them, then fine. But don’t impose them on the rest of us, especially ordinary working people (“the deplorables”) who can’t afford them and don’t want them and who also want independence of movement, beyond the range of charging stations.
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If people want to drive EVs because they are rich, poseurs, virtue signalers or their woke company provides them, then fine.
Or happily live in 15 minute cities where they are totally dependent on the electricity grid? And on just in time food deliveries to their groceries?
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Simon
You say – “There are millions of happy EV drivers who are never going to an internal combustion vehicle.”
And I think you’re correct.
But there are a billion or two ICE drivers who –
+ don’t want an EV
or
+ can’t afford an EV
or
+ want more range and general practicality from an EV. They may even be a bit wary of the difficulty in extinguishing an EV if it should, by any chance, catch fire.
Those drawbacks may change … somewhat, in time.
But, as Steve4192 indicates –
“If you live in an apartment without off-street parking, an EV is probably not going to be viable option for you, no matter what the price point. Ditto for someone who lives in a rural area with little EV infrastructure and where driving long distances is the norm. Or if you live in a frigid northern city and are worried about your car turning into a brick during a cold snap.”
And that situation is unlikely to change dramatically, across half or more of the globe, quickly.
And ‘free markets’ – well, some governments – in a green-panic – are subsidising one sort of car [can you guess …? ‘EV’] at purchase, and with infrastructure, and sometimes with running costs [to make/repair roads!].
The consumer will benefit – if free choice is allowed [let alone encouraged!].
But so many governments – and opposition parties, too – have screamed so much about CO2, without understanding anything other than Greta’s Gabble.
So sad, but we risk being short a perfectly good civilisation …
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Well that’s happy news simon, it means the 1% of flogs have their ev and they’re happy, so let’s move on.
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Free market for quality goods don’t need subsidies – period !
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I agree completely.
https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/hiring-and-paying-your-workers/fringe-benefits-tax/types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars-other-vehicles-parking-and-tolls/exempt-use-of-eligible-vehicles
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australian-fossil-fuel-subsidies-costing-taxpayers-65-billion-a-year-imf-20230824-p5dz0l.html
https://www.acf.org.au/public-money-for-fossil-fuels
https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/australian-fossil-fuel-subsidies-surge-to-11-6-billion-in-2021-22/
https://reneweconomy.com.au/how-australias-largest-fossil-fuel-subsidy-could-decarbonise-mining/
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You forgot about the $13.7b that Australian motorists will pay purchasing “fossil fuels” this financial year. $0.44 for every litre.
That alone outweighs your so-called “subsidy” of $11.6b.
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Federal
Building the Kurri Kurri Gas-fired power station ($200 million). Because Wind and sunshine won’t cut it.
Concessional finance for Olive Downs coal mine ($175 million). Not a subsidy. Reduced interest finance.
Road construction for fracking in the Northern Territory ($173 million). How is building roads a subsidy?
Capital investment in Hunter Valley coal railway network ($161 million). To move product to the export ports for our GDP.
Queensland
$50 million to upgrade rail lines given “interest in developing substantial coal deposits in the Northern Galilee Basin”. Upgrading to open more area for our exports and GDP.
$50 million for the Meandu coal mine that feeds state-owned coal-fired power stations. State owned coal fired power station, and not a subsidy.
$72.5 million allocated to upgrading Callide and Kogan Creek coal-fired power stations. Upgrading state owned power stations, not a subsidy.
Northern Territory
$2.8 billion committed to gas purchases for loss-making Power and Water Corporation. Government paying government, loss making enterprises.
$720 million committed to gas transport. Again for our countries benifit, GDP. Macather River mine runs gas turbines, which they own, the NT gov supplies the gas by the gov owned pipeline. (Think Poles and wires.)
A $400 million ship lift partly to service the oil and gas industry. It’s a ship lift, again “partly” but atribute all. They will hire it out for profit. The ship lift will be a Northern Territory Government-owned facility that will provide wet and dry berths for vessels wash down, blasting, painting and general maintenance facilities on a common user basis.
Western Australia
$571 million has been allocated to building or upgrading gas and coal-fired power stations, with $59.5 million to be spent in 2021-22. Government owned and operated
Another $500,000 to Chevron’s Gorgon CCS project, which has already received $60 million from the Federal Government and has never operated to approval requirements. It’s another green subsidy.
State-owned port authorities allocated $31 million in 2021-22 and $179 million in capital works that at least partly benefit the oil and gas sector. Partly benefit, but atribute all the “not a subsidy” to the oil/gas industry. Government owned and being upgraded to service more customers for the government to charge for the service.
Brown coal to hydrogen project received $13 million in state funding in 2021-22, part of $100 million committed from Victorian and Federal Governments. Green subsidy and nothing else. The CCS bit makes it a green subsidy.
$66 million for the program that oversees the CarbonNet CCS project, still not operational 12 years after its establishment. Another green subsidy.
New South Wales
$26 million for abandoned mine rehabilitation including coal mines in the Lower Hunter. Mine rehab, all mines must put up huge bonds with the government for rehab
The Coal Innovation Fund spent $9.9 million in 2021-22 and has a balance of $70 million. How is this a subsidy, It is for CCS.
South Australia
$19 million in the 2021-22 budget to upgrade an oil jetty largely used by Santos, part of a total estimated cost of $57 million. To assist Australia’s GDP and not a Subsidy, ports are owned by Australia, this one is leased to Santos, the owner must maintain. (Except the ones the Gov sold to China)
Your lot have no shame, you lie, they lie, a green utopia built on lies.
https://thelawdictionary.org/subsidy/
Yet you’re more than happy to subsidies wars.
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Simon, we have had this chat before. Tax deductions are not a subsidy.
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There are “millions” of private EV owners? Really? Where?
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China?
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Zooming along with their perfectly diverse families in the La La Land that exists in Simon’s efferent pathways.
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In the doctors car park at every hospital.
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A quick Google reveals roughly 26 million EVs registered globally, out of 1.4ish billion cars in total. Not a massive percentage
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And what percentage of the registered is private ownership? What percentage are corporates, rental, or Gov. fleets? It’s not free markets at work here.
I remember back during the Obama years there was a massive proliferation of Chevy pickup trucks in the work truck fleets. The answer was that because of Gov incentives and subsidies they were practically bought by the Gov. Fleets will always go with the cheapest option, because of the multiplier effect. This was right after the Obama bail outs. Back then, the US auto companies (with the exception of Ford for the time being) became owned by the political party of government. GM’s ownership essentially was transferred to the labor unions. And labor unions are a division of the Democrat (/Labour) Party. The Democrat Party is also the party of the permanent Gov class (Swamp) that the Uni-Party is in bed with.
At the same time, the Obama regime made things hard on Honda and Toyota. Why were the Japanese singled out? Because they are in practice essentially non-union.
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* “ everybody”. has not rushed into this new(old ?) technology. …<2% of new car sales !
* there are many unhappy EV owners who ase selling and going back to ICEs …..as well as the Rental companies who are also backing out of EV because they are much more expensive to operate !
EV sales have picked the low hanging fruit of early adopters and cashed up suckers,..so now they are having to survive in the mass market sales area….which is not so easy. !
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No, they were rushing into it when the government provided a huge subsidy for the BUYER of the EV’s with more subsidy for the EV making companies and mandated phase outs of ICE cars by 2030 now it is all falling apart solely because it was being forces by government fiat.
This is government mandate failure in the making, the free market has never tagged along willingly now they are shrugging off your baloney easily when it fails because the demand for Ev’s was artificial and forced.
Meanwhile Hybrids are far better choice as it overcomes the cold problem and provide sufficient power for atmosphere control in the vehicle but the government abandoned it for all electric cars because they are stupid and incompetent in how markets runs.
How can you be so clueless Simon?
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“How can you be so clueless Simon?”
He does it so well, like he’s had practice.
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One of the CNN Trio…
https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_s8eu64vjcH1yk4k9o_720.mp4
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Keeping that going –
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-admin-classifies-marthas-vineyard-and-other-elite-enclaves-low-income-push-ev
10
“We have seen a concerted effort to scare people… we have seen articles saying that cars are catching fire – but had evidence that the fire risk is absolutely the same as [petrol and diesel] cars,” she said.
Ah, yes, dear. The fire risk MAY be the same.
Except for the fact ICE vehicle fires are able to be put out MUCH, MUCH quicker.
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Not only is Mr Bean doing a ripping job castigating EV’s in the UK, Jeremy Clarkson is also doing a very good job in under- promoting them. He keeps writing articles featuring vehicles powered by lovely V8’s, very subtly criticising the whole electric vehicle push. He does it with humour and it’s very effective.
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Add to that our own homegrown AutoExpert, John Cadogan, who is not against the idea of EVs , just all the impracticalities that come with them.
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I think a lot of people are connecting the dots between increasingly unreliable electricity supply, increasing cost of same and increasing reliance on a weather dependent grid, and the huge recharging demands of EVs
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Another way Australian Governments are forcing the introduction of EVs is via the ever-escalating taxes on petrol, diesel and propane in line with CPI and “world parity prices”. Both of the above were anti-energy policies introduced by the anti-energy, pretend-conservative Liberal Party by that pathetic weasel Howard when treasurer (no offence intended to the weasel community).
Also, oil exploration is banned in much of Australia and fracking banned under the Constitution of Victoria.
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The Albanese Kiss of Death
9 November 2023: Cash-strapped fast-charging company Tritium will close its Brisbane factory and consolidate its operations in the United States to save itself.
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Ever so quietly, EV charging prices slowly creep up
The Canberra Times
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Introduce the chargers for free, charge a little for the power, then when there are suckers aplenty , creep up the costs, they’ll hardly notice. LOL
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On mainland Australia most electricty is still produced from coal
So why switch from a ICE car that can be quickly refilled to one that mainly “runs on coal” that takes nealy an our to “refill” if you can find a working recharging station?
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Thieves targeting the copper in EV charging stations.
https://youtu.be/Vht3nE6gD6U
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David,
South Africa has massive copper theft happening too . Lawlessness is also a feature there too . The coppers can’t prevent the theft of copper…
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Cuprics
50
I will admit that the EV transition is being forced and a lot of people are resisting. An EV is not what they want at this point.
However, if you look at the history of hybrid vehicles in the US, it rose steadily for the first 7 years (2000-2007), then declined for the next 4 years (until 20011), rose steadily again the next 2 years followed by 5 years decline and really shot up after 2019. Click on the link below to see the hybrid vehicle sales volume was in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicles_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Annual_US_sales_HEVs_vs_PHEVs_2000_2019.png
From personal experience, I considered a hybrid in 2009 but the car cost $4-5,000 more than a standard ICE vehicle and I’d figured I’d probably save ~$400 per year in fuel. It made no sense.
I sold the 2009 vehicle in 2022 and bought hybrid this time because it was only $1500 more and the mileage improvement was much better so I currently save $900 simply because of the better fuel economy.
EV’s are at least a decade behind the hybrids. I considered an EV 2 years ago but it was too expensive at that time. In 5-10 years, I expect that to change and so it might make sense then to take the EV plunge. I expect the technology to improve. I expect that in 5-10 years there won’t be parts shortages for EV’s and at that time they will probably pencil out.
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Toyota made the right decision to focus on Hybrids
Their hybrids are much better and cheaper than those produced by other manufactures
I rented a Toyota Corolla hybrid for a Melbourne to Sydney trip and it was a fine car – they start from around $30,000 and are much cheaper than Teslas with no range anxiety.
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I drove a hibrid hire car around the UK – my only gripe was a smaller fuel tank (because of the battery) and no significant savings on highway driving. I had to keep filling up with Petrol far more often than in an ICE vehicle. But it was greatr around town.
20
The Toyota hybrid I have has the same fuel tank as the strictly ICE engine equivalent vehicle, 17.2 gallons. I get ~38 MPG in the summer, about 32 in the winter (MidAtlantic area of US) Range in summer is 550 miles vs. 450 miles in winter. The range ought to be higher but when the fuel gauge says it’s empty, there only seems to be room for 14.5 gallons of gas.
00
Are EVs the next Ford Edsel?
Will there be a collectors market for the likes of the Tesla Model S sedan made in 2012?
Despite its commercial failure, the Edsel has become a collectible car, with some models commanding high prices in the collector car market. The rarest and most valuable Edsel model is the 1960 Edsel Ranger convertible. Only 76 of these cars were produced, and they are highly sought after by collectors.
https://www.rmw.lv/car/en/ranger-convertible-1960
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China’s Abandoned, Obsolete Electric Cars Are Piling Up in Cities
A subsidy-fueled boom helped build China into an electric-car giant but left weed-infested lots across the nation brimming with unwanted battery-powered vehicles.
What happens in “planned” Communist economies vs market driven Capitalist ones {not subject to government interference}.
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/
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In line with the globalists of the WEF and UN, which Australian Lib/Lab/Green Uniparty politicians are fanatical followers of, Australia is developing “compact cities” otherwise known as “15 Minute Cities” by changing planning laws to allow ultra high density apartment “living”, just like their Chicomm masters have in Hong Kong.
With everybody living in apartments, imagine if the entire underground car park was filled with EVs? If one caught fire, they all would in a massive conflagration.
Ultimately, that danger will be used as an excuse to ban even EVs, except for Elites.
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Not just the Lib/Lab/Green Uniparty politicians.
Clive Palmer, Club of Madrid.
The Club of Madrid (CoM) is an off chute of the Club of Rome (CoR), along with it’s sister club, the Club of Bundapest (CoB)
The CoR is famous for its depopulation book, limits to growth, this book was from the first attempts to model Caos, 100% failure rate, but as always, that does not phase them.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/clive-palmer-given-key-role-at-g20-advisory-group-20121218-2bkgl.html
From 2022, (lest ye forget)
The billionaire mining magnate and United Australia Party chairman says he will spend $70 million on the upcoming campaign and his party will preference the Greens ahead of the major parties. (And the Greens preference Labor.)
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/greens-ahead-of-liberal-and-labor-clive-palmers-party-to-preference-major-parties-last/awwnxy5wp
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Big Brother is Watching You
China could use electric cars to spy on you
Green vehicles, charging networks and even batteries made in the Asian nation pose a security threat to the West.
https://www.afr.com/companies/manufacturing/china-could-use-electric-cars-to-spy-on-you-20231031-p5egbl
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CO2 Lover,
Too late – your mobile already does that . In Ukraine mobile phones are already becoming a target and providing information on movements and casualties to both sides . The police can track you that way and government agencies too . Anonymity is a thing of the past .
50
I rarely use my mobile phone – only when travelling otherwise I leave it switched off
30
Happy to let TPTB know I am home and occasionally do grocery shopping and attend the local surgery.
As well as that there are still “gaps” in the coverage on the main road from Albany to Perth – unless you added an external antenna. Harder to do that with the new smart phones.
11
Umm ….. and then the wheels fell off!
Tony.
150
The hidden aspects of producing a gleaming EV for the showroom, and ultimately for wealthy motorists, make a mockery of the touted benefits to the environment.
30
Politicians concerned about lies and misinformation…comedy gold!
130
Straight out of ‘Yes Minister’.
50
What do you get it you ask a politician to tell ‘the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth’?
3 different answers
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I thought the saying was: How do you know when a politician is lying?
Answer: When he/she/other is speaking.
40
Depends on which side of the multi-colored house they can see.
It may only be red on one side
10
The only transition intended is a reduction in the material existence of ordinary people.
If not their existence altogether.
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My opinion? (Not that anyone cares) People are sick and tired of being lied to by Al Gore and John Kerry.
Both are grifters.
Al Gore said, “The oceans are boiling!” He didn’t say they might boil in 10,20,30 years. They are boiling now!
John Kerry said, “Every single prediction made by the Scientists has come true, just earlier than expected.”
Now these are blatant lies, and lotsa people know it! Kerry was even dumb enough to toss in the 98% of scientists agree scam.
Both men are becoming increasingly frustrated by the fact that just too many darn people know it!
Their solution to this problem of theirs is to lie some more.
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Al Gore – leading by example
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He must be like that fat clown on Sydney radio who has the whole house aircon going flat out all day and night and has the underfloor heating on ‘because the tiles are cold on my feet’.
20
If only Labor had a brain and actually wanted to do something for Australia, they would build nuclear power stations for each state. This would bring about their green dream and we would be able to charge our EVs?
No need for land destruction with vast solar farms, no need for disgustingly expensive and inefficient wind turbines! You have all been programmed to think the Net Zero is good? All the Left is doing is laying the groundwork for the elite of the world to control us all
Australia has the best chance to stop this cancerous takeover in its tracks !! STOP and realise why we ended up with Albanese? A Biden clone if ever there was
Putting a ball less idiot in charge is half the takeover battle
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Dumb and Dumber – You can pick who is who.
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Got a new player in town to challenge for the titles, though the “dumbest” would be suitable here.
QLD’s very own graduate from the special school, muppet head Miles.
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‘Giggles’ Miles is our very own clown pollie, soon to be put out to pasture.
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His a Muppet Head, I present the evidence below.
Compare
Compare
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But at least we now know who yo blame for slumping EV sales in thr UK.
Not the savvy consumer who can do a simple cost-benefit analysis, or those unconvinced of the battery fire safety, charging infrastructure, or a range of other valid concerns.
No, it’s all Rowan Atkinson’s fault!
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/rowan-atkinson-blamed-for-slumping-electric-car-sales/news-story/cc709061b0606f1d4ac4318ff0d2721f
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Best part about this is hundreds of “Celebrities” and “Influencers” have all told us how good EV’s would be for the planet. All destroyed by ONE (1 ) realist.
It should be noted that Atkinson also has a degree in engineering as opposed to many of the other side who have Phd’s in “Feelings”
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Think on this next time you pay your annual RAA (Royal Automobile Association of SA) fee:
“Together with the South Australian Government, we’re building South Australia’s first border-to-border network of EV charging stations – RAA Charge.
Construction has already started, with the 140-site network to be completed in 2024.
From our highways and regional centres to our CBD and suburbs, it will be easier than ever to drive an electric vehicle in South Australia.”
The RAA was once a respected organisation.
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How will remote EV charging stations fare when there is all that copper in the recharging cable – could buy a few slabs of VB!
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In Melbournistan copper scrap sells for different prices in various forms. See https://melbournecopper.com.au/scrap-metal-prices-melbourne/
Let’s say $7 per kg.
According to the following source:
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Geely (China) own Volvo cars & Volvo trucks.
Volvo Trucks owns Renault trucks & Mack trucks.
Both of these truck companies make military vehicles.
If you want a solid truck- buy an Oshkosh. Very hard to break them.
The best part about an Oshkosh is that you can park them wherever you like.
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Best way to cross a desert with an EV, carry the EV on the truck.
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Sales are declining because the richest 5%, who can most afford them, already have one.
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90% of EVs ever sold are still on the road.
The other 10% made it home. 🙂
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On the topic of actions by the Elites/Government that are supposed to help us, Elon Musk just tweeted:
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Isn’t it obvious that despite government interference this is a free enterprise market here in Australia and in other developed nations, consumers free to make our own decisions and choose goods and services on merit. EV does not meet the expectations or pricing for most Australians.
The EV fleet here consists mostly of government vehicles at all three levels and private sector company vehicles mostly leased from leasing firms now given money by the Federal Government to use to push EV to clients.
The minority of privately owned EVs are mostly used for short distance driving and most in cities and suburbs. As we know from many reports long distance country driving by EV can be very inconvenient, an ECEV is far superior, and a lot less money to buy.
And consider the older EVs when owners decide to trade-in, regardless of choice being a new EV or ICEV the dealers will be reluctant to do a deal the older the EV is, and if they will the depreciation will shock EV owners, far more depreciation of value than an equivalent ICEV.
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As an astute observer said, electric motors are not the problem with EV, it’s the battery system that is a handicap.
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Australia will become the BEV dumping ground. While other countries free up their automotive markets, Australia is locking into BEVs as the future.
There are only a few marginal car manufacturers such as Toyota, Honda and Maxda that have not embraced BEVs. Who would have thought these tiny Japanese based automotive manufactures would do the best thing for the customers and shareholders.
China has gone big on BEVs and can undercut every other country on price and quality. A good deal of the stuff going into BEVs started life in China so they are in a good position to control the whole BEV supply chain.
Should Trump gain power, BEV sales will slump, solar panel sales will slump and wind turbine sales will slump. A trifecta that will hurt China’s manufacturing. They have geared up to support a wioke west. I would not be surprised if China was trying to influence the coming US elections.
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I can’t help but agree with the person who said “If Rowan Atkinson is responsible, give him a knighthood.”
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/rowan-atkinson-blamed-for-slumping-electric-car-sales/news-story/cc709061b0606f1d4ac4318ff0d2721f
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He could do standup , there must be so much material available.
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All of this greed and grabbing is based on the ridiculous proposition that cow is a dangerous greenhouse gas.
Kalm Keith
February 8, 2024 at 5:44 am · Reply
It’s NOT a scientific mystery.
CO2 in the atmosphere has no influence on the atmospheric temperature.
For a start those “things” are NOT MODELS and strangely the core science is hidden and not invited to the parti.
P.V = n.R.T rulz.
p.s. if you ever take a trip in a passenger jet, remember to keep the windows closed; it’s cold out there.
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Sorry, no cows today; CO2.
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I was just wondering how the Hindus feel about the EU plan to exterminate cows?
30
It’s damn cold at 10,000 feet, let alone 40,000, I once saw -60c on the planes entertainment unit, at 43,000ft over Europe.
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Wow.
The coldest I’ve seen was minus 38C, possibly others a bit lower than that but never sixty !
30
I saw that twice on Concorde, at 60,000′. The other number was Mach 2.0.
https://aviationsourcenews.com/analysis/concorde-passenger-experience-the-cabin-display/
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And my wife’s uncle, a Tasmanian flying in a Lancaster at 40,000′ over Germany and had to contend with dry ice in the breathing mask. Usually -78.5C required but with the very low airpressure at that altitude, it was a real hazard for airman.
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I cannot remember the temperature reading quoted but the story was about a long distance glider competition pilot and the glider was caught by an updraft and carried quickly far above recommended maximum ceiling for the unpressurised aircraft, he lost consciousness and fortunately lived when the glider lost altitude to warmer conditions.
I have experienced that feeling flying in the seat alongside the pilot in a Piper Navajo twin engine aircraft over the Blue Mountains west of Sydney heading to Bankstown Airport to land, it was early evening and becoming dark and suddenly we ascended like being in an express building lift. The altimeter was spinning fast. The very experienced employee pilot of the company owned aircraft was not concerned and when I commented about what might have happened if another aircraft had been directly above he just smiled.
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Swans can fly at 10,000 ft.
Usually late arvo so they can see sun’s reflection off still waters,
then glide there for fresh tucker.
Lot of weight in a swan….
40
Electric cars have been around for a while now. There is a second hand market.
And the early adopters have bought and the cars are ageing.
Perhaps what is happening is that the myth has been tested, the fun of the toy, the first in the suburb, the wow factor.
Now people are experienced, rental companies are experienced, even fleet cars are experienced. People have gone on their interstate trip and found all the problems with distance and charging, turning a holiday into a nightmare.
People do not like having to wear coats while driving in winter so they can get to their destination. Or not use the airconditioning in summer.
And when people send notes to their neighbours pleading with them to turn off their appliances so others can charge their cars, the game is over. No customer paid for the building of service stations. And waiting hours to charge your Porsche Taycan or Audi E-Tron or Tesla Plaid battery car so you can go faster than others is a sign you have not done your homework. It’s not fun to be stuck on the freeway crawling at bicycle speed in the slow lane hoping to make it to a charging station. While Citroen 2CV hurtles past.
And perhaps the sight of hordes of electric cars stuck in extreme cold because they cannot be charged at all has woken people up.
Hybrids will take over. The best of both worlds.
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And what has this to do with Climate Change/Global Warming/CO2? Nothing. When the whole world shut down in 2020, streets from Delhi to Rio to London and New York and Los Angeles were deserted, the aircraft were parked in the desert in their thousands and the cruise ships tied up, did CO2 go down at all? No.
So what difference did it make if the stopped cars/buses/trucks/ferries/ships/aircraft were gas, diesel, kerosene or electric? None at all. As a global experiment, shutting down the world made no difference to CO2. Emissions, yes. CO2, NO.
The alleged problem with with total CO2, NOT emissions. The only connection is the argument that emissions increase CO2. Except that it proven rubbish. CO2 is a constant from Tierra Del Feugo to Shanghai because it is in rapid gaseous equilibrium. The only reason CO2 can go up is ocean warming. So slightly warming the water surface increases CO2, not boiling oceans. Just the warm beer effect.
There is zero evidence that CO2 causes warming and even if it were true, there is zero evidence that humans have increased CO2. You can measure it! Fossil fuel CO2 vanishes almost immediately. Only 3.0% of CO2 in the air is of fossil fuel origin.
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The piece of science missing for most people is the idea of the equilibrium of a gas dissolved in water. H2O is a gas, up to 4% of the atmosphere in fact. We call it humidity. CO2 is another gas and at not many meters in the ocean at 1 atmosphere per 10 metres, it can be a liquid too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry%27s_law
For laboratory conditions the ratio of a dissolved gas in the water and in the air is determined by one thing, temperature. Molecules are reaching escape velocity and boiling off, O2 and CO2 and H2O. At the same time the same gases are being absorbed when they slow down. And temperature tells you how fast, on average, they are travelling. So higher temperatures mean more of the gas leaves and less is absorbed. At boiling you go a step further where the water actually turns to gas bubbles underwater!
The wholeprocess in a laboratory is described by Henry’s Law. But in the real world you do not have still water and still air nor and shallow water in the oceans which cover the planet 72%. And you get wind and wave created droplets with huge surface area for exchange. Waves even crash and bury air. Watch the next time you are on a ship. And it has been found that the transfer from air to water goes as the fourth power of the wind velocity, something not in Henry’s Law.
You see this in still spots, ponds, curves in the river where there is no wind. The water becomes anaerobic, low in oxygen. Wind makes the exchange go rapidly, even tiny ripples on the water. A mirror surface can means a dead pool.
You also know it when you breathe, where the incoming oxygen is 21% and comes out 14%, CO2 in at 0.042% and out at 4-14%. All in a single breath.
Somehow though people have been fooled into thinking CO2 somehow just sits in the air forever, when in fact it is 30x more soluble than precious oxygen which fish need to breathe.
The time for all the CO2 to swap out of the air and into the water is measured as a half life, a residence time and other terms to measure the exchange process. And here you can find 36 papers (click on Table1) which give the figure at 5-10 years. And this is ALL of CO2, not just the tiny bit produced by humans.
You can find a list in this paper from last year
https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/25/2/384#:~:text=The%20residence%20time%20in%20the,dioxide%20mass%20of%203403%20Gt.
He also concludes
(1) The adjustment time is never larger than the residence time and is less than 5 years.
(2) The idea of the atmosphere being stable at 280 ppm in pre-industrial times is untenable.
(3) Nearly 90% of all anthropogenic carbon dioxide has already been removed from the atmosphere.
I put it as 97%. You can also check all the other 18 papers which give the half life/residence time in Table 1.
What bugs me is that this is all well known science which completely debunks the idea the CO2 accumulates for ‘thousands of years’ when no one should believe that? It makes no sense, based if nothing else on every breath you take, pulling CO2 out of sea water/plasma in vast quantities and pulling in oxygen. This often very rapid process is the basis of all life on earth.
So there is no point feeling smug about owning an electric car. It is a very expensive toy. And people are starting to realise it.
50
So what is the reason for electric cars?
I am sure they are fun and have their place in crowded cities to minimize acid exhaust (SO2, NO2) and particulate matter. Especially old towns like Amsterdam. But we have come a long way since the Clean Air Acts around the world, the only disaster being the Green demands for diesel which produce vast quantities of NO2 (Nitric acid) after all the years of removing sulphur (SO2, sulphuric).
I expect now that the electric honeymoon is over, people will look at these bloated, superheavy, road killing machines and tax them heavily for their road damage, threat to lighter cars, maintenance costs (as Hertz can attest), poor resale pricing (new battery anyone?) and their true environmental damage in manufacture and demand for more electric distribution which is needed only by the rich.
If the only argument is reduced CO2 emissions, it is busted. All CO2 goes straight in the ocean anyway. At a 5 year half life, 860 billions tons of CO2 swaps between ocean and sky every day. Only 160 Billion tons is fossil fuel CO2 according to Al Gore. It doesn’t hang around.
40
Harr, someone commented above about how it’s minus 60 at 43 thousand feet.
Our little tiny, miniscule sliver of warmth in the apparently infinite universal deep freezer..
And we’re are panicking about 1.5 degrees of life sustaining radiative forcing.
(I love saying ‘radiative forcing’. It’s why I’m so popular at dinner parties.)
Note: It only makes sense if it is a conspiracy by elites to scare ordinary people into submission.
Submission is the mission of the World Imprisonment and Impoverishment Forum.
And where have you been?
I’ve missed you.
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Thanks. Private stuff, time poor. But I have been casually commenting on Quora. Very funny arguments there. There I am a Denier which is the synonym for heretic in the religion of Climatology.
The latest is that the record cold in Scandinavia is caused by global warming/heating. And that Climate Change is both heating and cooling simultaneously. Naturally all caused by carbon dioxide. It makes the story of The Rapture or Scientology seem reasonable. The gas on which all life is based, from which all life is actually made, plants and animals and fungi and bacteria is now industrial pollution, industrial emissions. Amazingly in this new science world you say nuclear energy has zero emissions and people agree?
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That’s big 🙂
10
…’ there is zero evidence that humans have increased CO2. You can measure it! Fossil fuel CO2 vanishes almost immediately. Only 3.0% of CO2 is of fossil fuel origin.’
Welcome back, TdeF.
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2024, the year the wheels fell off.
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Baroness Parminter said: “We have seen a concerted effort to scare people… we have seen articles saying that cars are catching fire – but had evidence that the fire risk is absolutely the same as [petrol and diesel] cars”.
How then does she explain that a report commissioned by the UK government from consulting engineers Arup recommended a huge upgrade of car park safety because of the risks from EVs? This report is on the UK government’s own website at
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1168956/covered-car-parks-fire-safety-guidance-for-electric-vehicles.pdf
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Paul Homewood puts the record straight:
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2024/02/07/the-govts-version-of-ev-facts/
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I would love to know how much the government taxes petrol in total, taxes not applied to electricity/electric cars for the same purpose.
In Australia petrol users pay Federal excise at 44c/litre. GST is 10%, so another 20c/litre @$2.00 a litre. So 64c of 200 cents is revenue raising. That’s a 64/136 or a 50% markup purely as revenue. There are probably other concessions for electric cars like insurance, registration. The comparative situation is fake right now, vastly in favor of electric cars.
But if you increase the cost of electricity for car charging in the same way as petrol, the price of running an electric car would jump dramatically. Plus they should pay for the charging stations and all the infrastructure, all of which costs everyone else unfairly.
And if insurance was based on real repair costs and the fact that they are often written off for minor damage, it would be at least double for electric cars and potentially much higher. Beware the separate ‘smart’ meter for high speed charging. In time electricity for charging cars could be twice the price.
The question is how long greedy State and Federal governments are going to wait to charge trapped electric car users on the same basis as other car users once it is realised that the enticements to go electric are not working?
30
The politicians will wait as long as they are told to by the powers who are exerting control over them and feathering their nests.
That realisation will be swept under the carpet of politician’s lies, misinformation, disinformation,and marketing/propaganda.
10
The UK Labour opposition has just ditched a ‘flagship’ policy of spending 28 billion each year on green causes. At least one Labour politician with at least one working brain cell must have figured out that the money wouldn’t be there.
00
What’s a mistruth?
00
That image from GrumpyBeere is really fascinating. I’d like to know who the artist is. Anyway, it’s worth clicking on the link to see some of the other remarkable images at the site.
00