By Jo Nova
By golly. 1948. Some will remember a time when smart people got things done.
The three minute piece describes the awesome value of Yallourn Coal Power Plant — “converting brown coal to light and power”. This one plant supplied two-thirds of all the electricity the state of Victoria needed at the time.
Most of those turbines built from 1928 to 1961 have since been shut down, but the last one, built in the 1970s, keeps on running today. Yallourn W is rated at 1,450 MW and supplies one fifth of Victoria’s energy still.
H/t to David Maddison who says: “Sir John Monash (d. 1931) who built Victoria’s electricity supply back in the day would be appalled at what the Unipary has done to his creation.”
Shut down and replaced with windmills with a life expectancy such that when they have been installed we have to start replacing them all. In case no one pointed it out, Renewables means Replaceables.
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The Left always talk about “sustainability” not even knowing what it means. It’s just a another meaningless, vacuous idea of uneducated, ignorant and fundamentally, not very nice people.
Sustainability is about building assets that last a long time with minimal and low cost maintenance, are reliable, on demand, and give investors a reasonable return over many decades and have minimal environmental impact (e.g. a compact installation on a relatively small plot of land compared with vast acreages of windmills and solar panels). Furthermore, sustainability is about delivering a low cost, quality product that is affordable by ordinary working people to keep them warm and comfortable at home and give them jobs in business and industry that has affordable power. Finally, sustainability is about minimal resource consumption. You need much less material per kW generated for a coal, gas, nuclear or real hydro (not SH2) plant than wind or solar panels, especially if battery backup is included plus an extensive spider web of interconnecting transmission lines for the latter.
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Just to clarify a point I made, I meant to say an honest free market return for investors in regard to coal, gas, nuclear and real hydro (not SH2).
Obviously, wind and solar plantations also provide a return for “investors” but it is not a free market, it is fundamentally not honest, and the only means by which money is made is by legal subsidy harvesting from domestic and industrial consumers and taxpayers.
There is absolutely no point in investing in wind and solar other than to harvest subsidies because it is not a viable business. To quote Warren Buffet:
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Of course!. We are consumers after all.
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Calm down! ( sarc) and agree with me that all this Eco & Controlling stuff is basically a GENERATIONAL thing … who was the Traitor in the Camp / Board of Directors who let the Lunatics out of the Asylum and into power ?
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Our Climate Cult government is now using taxpayer funds to invest in a lithium mine and investing in battery powered delivery vans and the list goes on.
A command economy is Communism 101 and this will not end well.
https://stopthesethings.com/2024/03/14/budget-blowout-escalating-cost-of-subsidising-wind-solar-simply-staggering/
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The politicians lied. They said wind was free. And wind power would be much cheaper than free coal.
It’s not just the installation of tens of thousands of rapidly decaying windmills. With a warning *Powerlines NOT included*.
Like an electric car which needs a cable all the way back to your house.
Plus *Giant Batteries NOT included* when no one knew they were needed. Like Snowy II.
And when the windmills die, they and their power lines are vast amounts of useless, poisonous, rusting junk across the landscape of Australia. Green? No. A testament to lies by people who really don’t care. And their only excuse is that they were not elected for their intelligence.
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The Left really are that stupid.
Especially simpletons like the Anti-Energy Minister Chrissy Bowen
All sailboat owners know that the wind might be “free” but like all diffuse and random sources of energy it requires an enormous amount of money to collect. And it’s not reliable, so you always need an auxiliary ICE motor, lest you be becalmed.
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DM! One only has to look at the myriad “wind farms” tied-up and lifeless in any mariner around the Australian coast Line. Money ebbing away with each tide.
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Under nutty Bowen, all sailing vessels will cease to have an ICE motor as a way of propulsion should there be insufficient wind to move said vessel.
Remember its TOTAL “de-carbonization”, no gas, coal or oil. All sailboats (and every other mode of transport) must have an electric motor and battery.
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Nolte: To the Surprise of No One, Electric Vehicle ‘Euphoria is Dead’
“Automakers from Ford Motor and General Motors to Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Jaguar Land Rover and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans,” reports CNBC.
The headline says it all: “EV euphoria is dead. Automakers are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.”
Yeah, there’s a shock.
Gee, why-oh-why would people not want to purchase a super-expensive vehicle that can take more than an hour to charge — and that’s if you can find a charging station?
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Meanwhile in Australia
Better not tell “the young people” in outback Australia the value of the copper in these fast-charging locations!
Who in their right mind would drive an EV in outback Australia?
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/bowen/media-releases/fast-charging-ev-stations-ready-connect-nt-regions
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More on the Battery Powered Trucks – that we are paying for!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpt81DV9ehg
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Lithium is a very dangerous element to aggregate in the name of “saving the world”.
A small fissile reaction, eg in a back pack, is able to increase its yield many times with the addition of lithium deuteride.
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Germany starts dismantling wind farm to make room for lignite (brown) coal mine
Reality hits in Germany
Germany will need to rely on its vast brown coal reserves for years to come now that German has shut down all of it nuclear power stations an can no longer rely on natural gas imported from Russia.
During the German winter solar power is virtually non-existant and the “dunkelflaute” resulting in low wind energy for periods of up to five weeks at a time
Battery back-up would cost Trilions of Euros.
Australians will need to suffer a lot more pain before reality hits here.
https://brusselssignal.eu/2023/08/germany-starts-dismantling-wind-farm-to-make-room-for-lignite-coal-mine/
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Germany shut down its nuclear power stations because of the hype around the earthquake and tsunami that destroyed the Japanese power stations, they have rocks in their heads.
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All of these eco-nazi plans clearly indicate that the enemies of civilization and of humanity itself, are well and truly INSIDE THE GATES.
As Marcus Tullius Cicero noted in a slightly different “situation”:
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear”
See also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtlnqsszJks
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The “politics” behind the destruction / degradation of “traditional” facilities is, ultimately, the core issue.
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Yes.
And that for me is the greatest problem we face.
While everybody is worrying about Ukraine losing the war to Russia, how much danger is there that Germany might cave in to Russia?
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Rocks in their heads, nah, communism in their veins.
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Not veins, that’d be blue, in their arteries.
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Meanwhile in Poland which also uses brown coal
The Bełchatów Power Station is a lignite coal-fired power station near Bełchatów, Poland. It is the largest thermal power station in Europe.
The nuclear power policy was adopted by the country’s cabinet in February 2021, and reaffirms plans to develop 6-9 GWe of nuclear energy. The first of six 1-1.5 GWe units is planned to be in operation in 2033, with five successive units to follow every 2-3 years.
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Second-large-Polish-nuclear-plant-gets-approval
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Yes, the Korean APR1400 (MW) are off the self units and need little design or planning. If a unit is given approval on a selected site and unions are kept out of construction it could up and operating in about 18 months at a cost I of about $4bn. Unfortunately unions have much power which goes into the legal system, backed by socialist politicians.
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The wholesale destruction of Victoria’s power generation system and its replacement with nominal “environmentally friendly” alternatives is appalling.
Such action should rightly be seen for what it is and appropriate legal action instigated.
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The defendants will argue stupidity, not malice. And they have a point. But they are talking about the voters.
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Joseph Goebbels
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TdeF, I reckon simple incompetence in the sciences accounts for a lot of our problem. Watts, Joules and Amps are a foreign language to many “greenie” types I meet.
Folk like me run a 12 Volt fridge in their 4WD when camping. My deep cycle AGM battery will just run a 5 Amp fridge over-night and I’d argue that solar-battery-fridge is one of the “good” applications as a fridge runs intermittently and can be turned up to 5ºC to lessen the load. If I had to draw 5 Amps continuously for 10 hours I’d soon kill my expensive battery.
I remain hopeful that we’ll see a major coal unit fail this year and people will start to experience living without electricity sometimes and we’ll be inoculated against the stupid ideas of late.
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That example would only support the drive to replace “unreliable coal” with far more desirable “renewables”
Of course you have to ignore what fuelled the grid for the last 70 years. But hey that’s history and they are good at using that very selectively.
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Perhaps I should have used a longer format. My camp fridge draws 60W+ so a 10 hr night would draw a max of 600WHrs. By comparison my house sucks >18,000WHrs per 24Hrs.
I ruined my planer/thicknesser running it under-voltage on a battery/solar house. Their system was mediocre at best.
If any of those people who crow about having a big solar array had to actually live without the mains they’d soon change their tune about solar PV.
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Stubbo solar farm under construction in NSW reports that there will be 10 operationsl jobs for 25 years.
Cost estimated at $800 million, for completion in 2025, 400 MW capacity from 930,000 solar cells and 200Mwh battery, spread across 1,250 hectares of mostly cleared grazing land.
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200mWh battery keeps it going an extra half hour, but only if there has been enough sunshine to charge it. Not long enough to last till the evening meal gets cooked. And there won’t be any meat anyway with all the grazing land gone. Get used to raw vegetables.
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At least a 200 milliwatthour battery won’t take up much space.
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aND it would be cHeaper and jusT as efFective.
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I’m guessing that’s 400MW nameplate, not its true capacity which will be one third of that or less, plus random and useless.
It should be illegal for subsidy farmers to quote anything other than deliverable, dispatchable, on-demand power which in this case is zero once the battery goes flat after 30mins.
And why shouldn’t it be? If anyone purchased a car or any other appliance that had one third or less of its claimed power it would rightly be considered a fraud which the seller could be sued for.
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Speaking of car specifications, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izCJdwzhGbk, the presenter speaks to a Times article (EV mileage ranges OVERESTIMATED by up to 60%) where real-life driving reduces range by up to 38%
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$800 million for 10 jobs over 25 years.
That’s $3.2 million per year, per job.
Ordinary unemployment handouts would be a heck of a lot cheaper. We are being looted by these people.
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The battery might be rated at 200MWh to 100% depth of discharge but that is not itself an honest rating, just like the dishonest rating of the panels.
Continually running to its full capacity will dramatically reduce its life and capacity.
Maximum life is achieve with about 80% maximum charge and no more than about to 20%-30% capacity maximum discharge.
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If lithium batteries are used to back-up solar panels for overnight supply then 700 full cycles are achieved in two years!
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/depth-of-discharge-ev
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This sounds about right from my experience with 18V tool batteries. I always recharge when they fall below 50% and try to never let them reach 100% and turn off. I’ve run some 4 Ahr batteries for 8 years and they still work very well. It appears to me that a routine cycling well inside the battery chemistry’s limits is the best for Lithium ions.
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David M,
In some places it should feasible to have domestic batteries to mop up surplus night-time generation and let those batteries run small loads, e.g. fridge, freezer. As I see it Au has plenty of generated MegaWatts but at night we waste a lot and on a hot summer’s afternoon we have a shortfall. Removing most fridges from the day-time grid would help.
I’m tinkering with LiFePO4 batteries paralleled with Maxwell super capacitors. The caps mop up electrons from my solar PV very readily and help with the issue of fridges and other big electric motors having a high start-up load.
Around mid-day NSW often has a glut of electricity bcos so many people have opted to put PV on their rooves. Sometimes the grid operator sells off peak in the middle of the day to use up this spare power.
I reckon part of the energy solution will be a broader approach with a mix of coal and nuclear for base load and small gas turbines for rapid start in-fill and a lot of wind and solar fed in around the margins where possible but it’s not technically feasible to run a big grid upon fluctuating sources of electricity.
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Generators that you can’t ramp up as demand increases isn’t real power, it’s ephemeral, like a creek that only runs in the springtime.
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FWIW
“How Russia is fighting the Ukraine war“
https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2024/03/a-very-interesting-russian-document-has.html
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It makes you sick to see such valuable assets reduced to rubble and replaced by widgets. Widgets beloved of intellectual midgets. At the same time we hear another 125000 people came here in the last month with a demand for another 30000 homes or units that first need to be built but then need to be powered by electricity. Where does it come from? Chris Bowen’s imagination.
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Of course more UNRELIABLE ,TOXIC W & S will achieve nothing but 30% and 15% capacity factors and useless batteries that last a few hours.
And the entire mess has to be replaced every 15 to 20 years and even shorter periods will be suffered from offshore installations.
The cost of these TOXIC disasters will WASTE TRILLIONS of $ and definitely ZERO change to temp, climate or weather. So why are we building these UNRELIABLE money wasters and wrecking our onshore and offshore environments?
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Here’s another example of a long-lasting Victoriastani power generating assert.
The Rubicon Hydroelectric Scheme. Commissioned in 1929 and still going strong today.
Back in the day, it provided as much as 17% of the state’s electricity.
You can also visit it and do a bushwalk around it (about 16km).
I wrote an article about it:
https://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2013/February/The+Historic+Rubicon+Hydroelectric+Scheme
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How many wind and solar plantations will be around to celebrate a century of operation?
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I remember the Rubicon Power scheme very well it was where I started my 32 years in the S.E.C. that included over 8 years living at the top of the Rubicon Haulage, the infrastructure has stood the test of time although there are now no families or workers allowed to live in the forest area, in fact the only structure there now is the old Rubicon Post Office, I assume it is still there it was six years ago when I last visited the area, all the screen cleaning in the channel are now automated, and the only update I noticed was the Lower Rubicon Power Station pipe line was being replaced. My son who was born when we lived in the post office, pre my time in the S.E.C climbed up the old haulage line to the top of the haulage with his son who could not envisage what living there was like 60 years ago.
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Thanks for those insights Alexander.
When I wrote the article I asked the present owner, AGL Energy, if I could speak to someone about the scheme.
After three weeks and several phone calls, they told me they could not find anyone in their organisation that knew anything about it whom I coukd talk to.
They could also supply no photos, I had to take my own.
Unbelievable.
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David I am intrigued by this entire set up and often wonder, with many advancements in engineering, physics and hydrology over the last century, could a significant additional amount of energy be extracted from this system? Kilometres of aqueduct that has significant fall, the water speed appears to the untrained person to be quite fast. The long straight pipeline drops of hundreds of metres also appears to have some opportunity to improve output. I have no understanding of the physics / mathematics involved in calculating potential energy capability of water however I have thought that inline stream turbines would deliver something in the channels and then what about a revamp of those long drop pipes. Is it possible to install primary generators half way along their length still supplying high energy water to the peltman wheel generators at the bottom. As all other infrastructure is already in place it would seem that it would be cheap enough to build generation points and just direct output into the existing grid.
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Our daughter and her son took shelter in a shed at Rubicon, along with others, during the 2009 firestorm. She was there for 12 days, catering for the group. They reckoned on the power lines being kept clear and therefore relatively safe. When mobile ‘phone reception was restored I could keep up with what they were doing by text.
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Yes Alexander the old Post office is still there. Privately owned I believe, so a cause of consternation to those authorities who want everyone and everything out of the forest.
So many changes, all of the other houses of both timber workers and SEC employees long gone. Gates restricting access to formerly open areas near the P.O. disregarding the fact that this area was a little village in its own right. Gates across the road before the channel to the bottom of the haulage, I think your still allowed to walk in but this could change at any instant, for our own protection of course. Were you the winch operator in the 1950’s, If so thanks for the many rides up on the railway wagon with my parents friends who lived originally on the left side of the Rubicon Rd heading upstream then moving to the house on the low side right beside the river with the big oak tree out front.
Just to jog old memories you may remember this chap who suffered a sever electrocution while working on the lines during a big storm some where about the late 50’s. He survived buy was never quite the same after this accident.
Dont know if the big quince tree was at the P.O when you were there, if it was its still bearing big yellow fruits to this day.
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It’s a small world.
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What are you all talking about? Power still comes out my wall every time I plug something in. The experts must know what they are doing. As John Laws says, we must trust the experts. Is Chris Bowen an expert?
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You forgot the /sarc tag.
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The /sarc was obvious.
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If you are living in Australia, you should have a plan to get off the grid. It is the only viable option now for reliable power.
As more people leave or partially leave the grid, the cost recovery of the grid transition will fall onto fewer people. The theft via RET will need to accelerate and have government guaranteed periods of application to encourage more private investment into grid scale WDGs. There is no point investing in grid scale solar because it is trumped by rooftops. Wind through the day is also often trumped by rooftops so investment firms are reluctant to risk money when there is no clamp on rooftops.
Snowy 2 will cost more than AUD30bn with its add-ons and is a power SINK not a source.
Household battery installations are accelerating with 2022 up 55% on previous year:
https://electricalconnection.com.au/2023-australian-battery-report-energy-storage-installations-up-55-smashing-record/
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I agree Rick, but how can a typical suburban consumer effectively go off grid or partially so?
The best they can do is perhaps cover their power usage in summer with solar if they have a flammable battery.
Most houses do not have enough roof or backyard area to install enough solar panels and associated batteries to generate sufficient power to stay off grid in winter.
The other option is a generator. I think diesel is best because fuel has a long storage life compared to petrol, plus lower risk of fire, plus a diesel generator can be run on vegetable oil when the SHTF.
And apartment dwellers have no chance.
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The points you raise are valid and why you need to be planning. And it will depend on individual circumstances.
In southern Australia, winter demand will set the constraints. It would require a large solar array if you were only relying on solar for all energy needs. That is why I installed a wood burner about 6 years ago so I could reduce gas usage.
The last 1kW of solar panels I installed for my off-grid system are mounted at 45 degrees. For winter optimum, they should be tilted at 60 degrees at 37S.
The regulations require any household battery to be installed in a fire isolated location. For many that will be an external wall with a metal enclosure. Also large format cells are not as volatile as the small cans used in the car batteries and some household batteries like Tesla Powerwall..
Lunchtime power is already free from some retailers once you are paying for a connection. So just a household battery that gets charged each day from 1100 to 1400 will recover around $3 per day for a 10kWh per day household. Essentially you are making use of all the rooftop elsewhere but you will have power when the grid dies if you make provision for that. You would size the battery about 30% above your typical demand to get a good return. Payback period will be of the order of 10 years if the retail price of electricity does not go up. But there is a lot of money being spent on the grid that requires a guaranteed return so by 2030, you could very well see peak usage energy cost well north of 50c/kWh. So with near certain inflation in retail energy price apart from lunchtime power and the government subsidies available in each state the payback for a battery could be in the range 5 to 7 years.
My son has a large volume double brick home that is well insulated. He was the one who told me about the zero cost lunchtime retail offer. I cannot see any reason why this offer should not be maintained because it helps stabilise the grid to increase lunchtime demand. He plans to use the high thermal inertia of the house to maintain temperature by just heating or cooling through lunchtime. Similarly it would make sense to have a large water storage heater that only runs from 1100 to 1400 each day.
I would save almost $1000 per year in gas and electricity connection fees if I go off grid. My 66c/kWh FIT ends this year and eliminating connection fees is a big carrot.
There are government incentives for the costs involved in reducing household demand. Assessing the value of these in your circumstances is part of the planning process.
I would not advise anyone to go off-grid using just a diesel generator. A small generator can be used to top up a battery if you are off-grid. A small portable generator will deliver 10kWh in a few hours. Having a generator provides some confidence if you are planning to go off-grid but it would only be used to maximise the value of a solar battery system. And obviously you need to have a location suited to operating a generator.
It is now reasonably evident that lunchtime demand is prized for the stability it brings to the grid. I do not see that changing within the next 10 years. In fact, I believe lunchtime demand will be increasingly valued. Friday Mid March and wholesale price in Vic and SA both negative at 1230.
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It’s a question of: i) the maths – generating capacity, storage capacity, usage requirement, ii) the economics – capital investment has to be factored over the life of the investment, then replaced.
I have backup solar and power stations. Converting the whole north facing roof to solar would provide me with enough power when the sun shines for everything except the washing machine and the oven – they would be very border line.
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I think the problem is bigger than that.
Even in a short blackout commerce as well as households stop. No power to service stations means no power to the pumps, or if a backup generator is available, no internet to run the payment system. Use cash? Maybe if there’s some one who knows how to calculate the bill.
On a train? Hope you’ve stopped at a station and can get the doors open.
Driving an ICE in the city with no traffic lights? Enjoy. Let alone an EV.
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Not forgetting those stack and packs, (apartments, hotels) all pumped air, lifts.
Won’t need traffic lights in a 15 minute walk.
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Why would anybody be so keen on destroying manufacturing in other nations and reducing their populations to serfdom?
Quite simply Balance of Trade. As the Khan Academy beautifully records
Our feudal Lords have done a great job in reducing an enlightened world to vassal states. And, this was achieved without raising an army or dropping a bomb. Australia is busy bombing its own power stations and all it took was a few sinecures and funds to the Fabians, Uni party, Antifa, a few tin pot Dictators and their UN , the watermelons, the Malthusians, a few Cardinals, endless minor wars to keep the Military Industrial complex happy etc. Much cheaper than Military conquest.
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Absolutely, western nations are doing to themselves that which AH, the Man of Steel, Mao, and so forth, could never get done.
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Vaclav Smil and Dr Pielke jr have reminded us that fossil fuels use have increased by 55% since 1990 and here’s another global income level graph from OWI Data to check this out.
Does anyone really think that poorer countries will be stupid enough to stop using fossil fuels and suddenly switch to the TOXIC, UNRELIABLE W & S disasters? Why can’t they just look up the recent DATA and think?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co2-income-level
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Also compare Australia, USA, UK to China and India on this graph
It is “racist” to expect poorer counties to reduce their already low CO2 emissions just becuase weathly countriesa are able to reduce their high emissions at great expense.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita
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Or they could stop firing stuff at the moon or developing hypersonic weapons, and be less “poor”
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The definition of “poorer” is very flexible.
There are many wealthy people in countries like Indonesia and India, and no doubt, China who make Australia actually a country with less disposable wealth.
Why don’t these “wealthy” people look after their own.
Or maybe they know the virtue signaling of western politicians is all consuming.
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Here’s another interesting co2 emissions graph from OWI Data that shows that China in 2022 almost emits as much co2 as the 38 OECD countries.
And the OECD are the wealthiest countries in the World.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?country=USA~GBR~IND~CHN~FRA~DEU~BRA~Non-OECD+%28GCP%29~OECD+%28GCP%29
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Note that India is currently trailing China – however this year the population of India surpassed that of China
Expect India to play catch up with China over the next decades.
https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-scrambles-add-coal-fired-power-capacity-avoid-outages-sources-2023-11-29/#
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Co2 Lover I think India will play catch up until they equal Chinese co2 emissions or surpass China.
India doesn’t trust China and they have ongoing disputes on their shared border.
Even if China eased up on emissions today, India would need to spend many years of increased emissions to try to reach China’s emissions + strength by 2040.
And it’s obvious India wants results fast and would never WASTE trillions of $ on TOXIC, UNRELIABLE W & S for ZERO change in Military strength.
The OECD countries may be stupid but India understands their very dangerous neighbour and will do everything to try to catch up.
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The Indians will also want to counter China’s influence in Australia.
We will be taken over one 7/11 at a time!
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Note that the Indians are not likely to forgive Australia for treating them like children by refusing to export lignite to them when they wanted it.
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Prof. DiLorenzo: Why Socialists Want to Destroy Western Civilization and Christianity
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Yeah, look, I’ve mentioned this here at Joanne’s site a number of times across the years ….. Victoria’s brown coal fired power plants.
The technology for coal fired power generation has now improved, well, out of sight really. Current coal fired power is four levels of technology higher than the existing plants in Gippsland, and five levels higher than that plant shown in the video.
Originally, the brown coal, also as in the video was transported by rail from the mine site to the power plant. Each train would carry (well nowadays anyway) 100,000 tons of coal, and that plant would require around one and a half ‘train loads’ of coal each and every day, and all up, the plant would consume around, wait for this, 50 million tons of coal each year. And in the video, it was mentioned that the coal deposit was ‘around’ 6 Billion tons. So that makes around a thousand years plus supply of coal, even for the estimate back when that film/video was made.
Modern tech Advanced USC, well, even USC plants, burn barely half of that for greater power output, such as efficiencies have improved.
The coal is crushed (pulverised) to talcum powder consistency, and then injected into the furnace. (none of that ‘shoveling’ it into the open door thing) The process itself is quite interesting, and here’s a pretty basic schematic image, and this is just for those black coal plants. The brown coal ones have a heater for the coal during the pulversing/injection part of the process, mid screen
While USC and now Advanced USC were the province of black coal, they now also use USC for brown coal as well. During the pulverising of the brown coal it is dried to remove the moisture content, using the residual heat from ‘downstream’ of the process.
This is nothing new eaither, as in Germany, they have now been using it for quite a while.
This link is to the Neurath plant, Units F and G. read it if you wish, as it is a good article. However, right at the top, note the date ….. May 2008, and at that time those Units were already in operation.
Okay, now scroll down around two thirds to three quarters of the way, and looking closely, you’ll see two consecutive paragraphs beginning with the acronym ….. WTA.
Read the second of those paragraphs.
Well, read it and weep really.
What could have been, eh!
Tony.
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Oh Tony, that comment about Hazelwood. That has thoroughly compounded the anger I feel as we drive past the desert-looking site of Hazelwood, which we did a few days ago.
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Efficiency over 43%! To get this required very high temperatures.
“The main steam produced by the steam generator has a pressure of 272 bar and a temperature of 600°C!”
A steam locomotive? Typically 200 to 280 psi. ( 14 to 19 bar and 195C)
We can now talk of twice the amount of free coal available in Victoria.
And how many of these plants could we build for a fraction of the cost of SNOWY II, which is just a very, very expensive flat battery which we will have to pay to charge.
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Thanks Tony for info. Australian brown coal has very much lower sulphur so no desulphurisation of exhaust gases required. however, the moisture of the coal is higher (about Chemicals 66%) so not as efficient. cost of coal is lower with no rail required, all with conveyors from the coal deposit. Coal winning can be automated with no person in the mine. The cost of power from a well designed new power station run by professional engineers with no union involvement could be 50% of that in Germany or Poland. Oh, for a (Sir? Henry) Bolte Government in Victoria.
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Thanks Tony for info. Australian brown coal has very much lower sulphur so no desulphurisation of exhaust gases required. however, the moisture of the coal is higher (about 66% AD) so not as efficient. Cost of coal is lower with no rail required, all with conveyors from the coal deposit. Coal winning can be automated with no person in the mine. The cost of power from a well designed new power station run by professional engineers with no union involvement could be 50% of that in Germany or Poland. Oh, for a (Sir? Henry) Bolte Government in Victoria.
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I remember German lignite being described as very comparable.
which quotes 50-60%. It’s not peat at 80% but not far off it.
And the patented technology from Monash/Bacchus Marsh companies held great hope for cheap water removal resulting in a calorific content equivalent to anthracite. But John Bracks banned the $400 Million sale to India.
I suggest most try to evaporate the water using the heat of the furnace but the invention was mechanical, requiring far less power. Compression would remove most of the water at close to zero cost.
At the time I was really annoyed that the only complaint was that removing the water made coal ‘blacker’. Only a child associates black with dirty. Carbon as in diamond is transparent, but the journalists at The Age made it front page news.
Why is every other state allowed to export CO2 and Victoria is banned from even using our own reserves of energy. If the intention was to bankrupt Victoria, successive Labor governments have done a great job.
60
This Victorian Government report has our lignite at 48% to 70% water.
30
It is not only the base load coal plants that fall by the wayside, itis the highly skilled and experienced workforce that operate these plants (as opposed to those plants operated by bureaucrats in certain parts of Australia). By the time ‘we’ realize that we do need base load power, it will be maybe 8 years before additional coal plants come online. For nuclear, which may have its merits, it is maybe 30 years, given how far we are behind the starting line, and our propensity to tangle projects in layer upon layer of red tape.
In the mean time, candles should suffice for light, and mallee roots for warmth.
50
i-Car R.I.P.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQYcwmRxnbE
40
Thanks co2 lover and nice link on how to blow 10 billion $ and flush it straight down the drain.
If you also add Ford GM VW etc, many more billions of $ should be included and also flushed straight down the OECD countries drains as well.
Just think if they had invested in proper BASE-LOAD energy for their countries’ future instead and continued to build better and cheaper ICE cars for a much better outcome for their drivers.
90
In the 1980’s there were two proposals by the SEC, the first to increase efficiency with a new fluidised bed combustion system to fire the boilers and dramatically increase efficiency, the next to put a Nuclear power station at Portland to decentralise electricity production and take advantage of existing power lines. Both proposals were denied by a labour Government then as we know the next Liberal Government sold everything.
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That’s amazing David. I have read some many advancements that could have been made to coal stations to both increase efficiency and reduce real pollutants, not the fake ones like CO2. Portland would have been perfect for a nuclear power station with deep harbour, good water supply ( Glenelg River? ) and a major customer ( Alcoa ) right there in town. Plus that major Melbourne / Portland powerline built in the 1970’s, would have pushed power back towards Geelong/Melbourne.
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…And it supported heavy industry making us self sufficient producing our own iron, steel, aluminium, copper and so on. Now, as a result of the Albanese far left socialist Labour government’s, exclusively Australian, wind and solar energy policy, heavy industry is going off shore to countries which have maintained their 24/7/365 reliable coal-fired/nuclear base-load energy. The Bowen-Albanese megalomaniac dream of making Australia a ‘renewable energy superpower’ is betting all our energy investment resources on one technology and, against all odds and sound scientific advice, hoping it will come through to make Australia a unique world leader in green energy. Are Bowen and Albanese channelling Baron Munchausen?
On the other hand, in the real world, common sense in the energy sector requires diversity of inputs. A judicious mix of nuclear, latest technology clean coal, hydro, wind and solar. A smart move would be to refurb at least one decommisioned coal-fired power plant with a suitable small modular reactor. This would be a great pilot scheme to test the feasibility of nuclear power generation whilst saving money by utilising the tried and tested current grid which is ready to connect at site. Unfortunately, the chances of this happening are pretty slim. The Albanese socialist Labour government is rushing headlong into their Australia as a ‘renewable energy superpower’ Nirvana. Dreaming that this will all come to fruition is recklessly gambling with Australia’s energy future and prosperity. My prediction, is that under this reckless scheme, Australia will become a showpiece for an energy super disaster with huge cost over runs, incompleted new energy grid, destroyed prime farmland and destroyed aesthetics in a once beautiful environment that future generations will inherit but loathe. The socialist perpetrators will of course have decamped to other parts of the world to live in luxury on juicy government perk-filled pensions and huge share portfolios. And for the rest of us: a sentiment of: poor bastard, my country.
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It is not only the base load coal plants that fall by the wayside, it is the highly skilled and experienced workforce that operates these plants. By the time ‘we’ realize that we do need base load power, it will be maybe 8 years before additional coal plants come online. And experienced coal-fired power station operators will be nowhere to be found.
For nuclear, which may have its merits, it is maybe 30 years away, given how far we are behind the starting line, and our propensity to tangle projects in layer upon layer of red tape. We cannot even reach agreement regarding replacing the nuclear source in our only reactor in Lucas Heights.
In the meantime, candles should suffice for light, and mallee roots for warmth.
90
An extraordinary and bizarre aspect of Australian anti-energy policy is the urgency with which coal and gas generating assets need to be rapidly demolished rather than mothballed as in more sensible countries.
90
They know if it is left mothballed, it will be used when the sunbeams and breezes don’t work out.
70
Just remember that most Uniparty politicians and the senior public serpents who tell them what to think are so stupid and ignorant that they go home at night with not the slightest worry in the world.
Most of them are utterly clueless except a much smaller number of them who know exactly what they are doing which is actively participating in the deliberate destruction of Western Civilisation for the benefit of Emperor Xi. Xi wants China to be the only superpower within 10-20 years. Why do you think that when it comes to political corruption it normally involves our corrupt politicians doing favours for the Chinese?
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76 years ago, the green wreckers didn’t exist, just the commo unions.
70
This goes with that –
Text from a cartoon –
“On this day in 1883,
Karl Marx finally
achieved a single
positive contribution
to humanity.
He died.”
10
Doomed Planet
The Grim Prospect of a Net-Zero World
15th March 2024
Our coal-fired power grid has been sabotaged by the creeping disease of subsidised solar panels and wind turbines.
We now reap the whirlwind, all in blind pursuit of an unachievable and counterproductive net-zero.
Skyrocketing power costs are the result of progressively and unnecessarily duplicating a once-reliable, low-cost grid while carbon cowboys play games in the futures market and make personal fortunes through prematurely closing down power stations to suit speculation in sub-standard, unreliable, wind-and-solar rich-lister toys that will shortly be landfill. We do not need any more government inquiries to smokescreen increased costs-of-living.
Glad-handing politicians are still peddling fear of the imaginary carbon monster as is exemplified by the latest brochure from our Federal (Greens) Member:
‘Man must dig or die’ was a motif of Lang Hancock, a visionary Australian pioneer, pastoralist, prospector, pilot, producer, philosopher and philanthropist. His daughter, Gina Rinehart, blessed with every one of those attributes, has gone so much further than even her father could have envisaged, after she recovered the wreckage of the family companies incurred during Hancock’s somewhat reckless final years. The human factor is as important as science in accessing and utilising virtually infinite resources available in a minerals-and-energy-rich planet.
All life on Earth depends on carbon dioxide, which has been subject to a most amazingly effective smear campaign over what is now several generations.
Even today propagandists and the media present the trace gas as the sooty, particulate-laden smoke belched from old-style smokestacks lacking the scrubbers now used in the chimneys of current generation coal-fired power stations.
Schools inculcate fear of the Carbon Monster and a notional carbon footprint’ is now a ruling factor in a legislative nightmare determined to enforce compliance with what is essentially a fairy tale.
The motif, ‘Man must dig or die’, has never been more needed to be understood than now. The very act of mining the primary fuel that sustains us is under threat by modern-day ill-informed Luddites.[1]
In Queensland, legislation is planned to shuty down the essential coal-mining industry within a decade. This is economic suicide, madness on an industrial scale.
70
Doomed Planet
Turn Out the Lights, Australia. Dark Days Ahead
10th March 2024 – Peter Smith
Exactly the same news cycle, irony in print. One “filthy” CO2-spewing coal power station is to be kept operating beyond its scheduled closing date of August 2025.
While, at the same time, one “cleaner” natural gas extraction project is delayed by the courts, yet again. Though, as for the latter, this time around, neither the Rainbow Serpent nor the Crocodile Man figure in proceedings. Small mercies.
As to coal power, it remains disconcertingly reliable, affordable and connected. And that is proving to be a problem for those who would rid us of this epitome of evil. NSW’s Premier Minns and his Labor climate warriors wish and hope to run NSW on intermittent sun and wind, with back up from hydro and batteries, and in so doing achieve greenhouse gas emission reductions of 50 per cent by 2030, 70 per cent by 2035, and the nirvana of net zero by 2050. Of course, it just ain’t gonna happen as the desperation to keep Eraring power station open shows.
Dusty Springfield explained it melodiously.
Wishin’ and hopin’ and thinkin’ and prayin’
Plannin’ and dreamin’ each night of his [emission-less] charms
That won’t get you into his [net-zero] arms.
Quelle surprise,
NSW’s fragile new-beaut energy system can’t cope with losing a further 25 percent of its reliable power. Eraring is Australia’s largest coal power station, providing 2,922 megawatts of electricity from four 720 megawatt coal-fired generators and one 42 megawatt diesel generator. It is located approximately 120kms north of Sydney. Originally built and owned by the state government, it was sold to the listed company Origin Energy in 2013.
Test question for high-school children:
How many wind turbines and solar panels would it take to replace Eraring?
Answer: More than an infinite number because, however many there are, none produce any power at all on windless nights (or on windless, heavily-clouded days for that matter).
All hydro-carbon fuels and related processes, on which the modern world is absolutely dependent, produce so-called GHGs (Green House Gases). We’d be without adequate food, clothing, transport and shelter without GHGs.
More than most countries, Australia rides on the back of GHG emissions. Apropos mining and agricultural exports, it’s an absurdity, akin to a national economic suicide note, to think we can put a legal lid on developments which produce GHGs. Judges getting woker begets a country getting broker.
Finally, another high-school test question:
Australia is responsible for huge amounts of GHGs. What is the only possible solution?
Answer: close Australia down.
60
ERARING’S CLOSURE TO BE DELAYED
NSW and origin in talks to keep coal-fired power station running
Colin Packham
40
The Mount Piper Power Station was supposed to close in 2042, but the virtue signallers have decided to shut it down in 2040.
I reckon it won’t close, at 1,400 MW its essential to keep the lights on, so the space prepared for two extra pods will more than likely be coal power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Piper_Power_Station
20
In Queensland, legislation is planned to shut down the essential coal-mining industry within a decade. This is economic suicide, madness on an industrial scale.
Hopefully, the QLD Libs/Nats get back in power at the October 2024 State Election in order to stop this Madness.
41
Of particular interest is the Urey paper at https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fspas.2019.00062/full referenced in footnote 3 of the Quadrant piece; in a just universe the class of imbecilic climate zealots, that part of our brethren headed up by the Bandt and Bowen boofheads, would be permanently shackled to the floor and an audio address of the paper played to them on a continuous loop for the rest of their undeserved lives.
10
Fears for patients as NHS rolls out net zero electric ambulances
Paramedics concerned that vehicles introduced to hit green targets will take too long to recharge
The NHS is to introduce electric ambulances, raising concerns that its drive for net zero is being put above patient safety.
Paramedics fear patients will be forced to wait longer because of the hours lost recharging the vehicles, with particular concern about coverage of rural areas, given the limited range.
The move next month is part of a series of measures that whistleblowers fear put green credentials above medical priorities.
The drive had created a bureaucracy that was diverting vast sums from the front line, and placing “grossly unethical” obstacles in the way of clinical decisions, one whistleblower warned.
NHS England has set up a Greener NHS team with a combined salary bill of £3 million a year, leaked documents reveal.
Officials created 48 roles, including five on six-figure salaries, as part of efforts to pursue an environmental agenda which means every medicine and product has to undergo an “evergreen assessment”.
The 135-question process means that no decision can be taken without a product’s social values and contribution to emissions targets being considered.
One supplier alleged that devices such as plastic cannulas were routinely being rejected on environmental grounds, despite the fact they would improve patient safety.
An extra layer of bureaucracy will be added next month, with every NHS supplier asked to draw up a carbon reduction plan.
Other eco-initiatives being rolled out include “climate-friendly pain relief” for mothers in labour and chemotherapy deliveries and GP visits via e-bikes.
A whistleblower told the Telegraph: “Every part of the NHS is under-resourced and waiting lists remain historically high, but commitment to green zealotry remains unchanged.
50
Thanks OO,
The stupidity knows no bounds. Has this particular variant reached Australia yet?
Cheers
Dave B
40
Why save lives when not having working ambulances can save the planet? This is Green logic in a nutshell. Who needs people? They are the problem.
80
Back in the day, the “social value” of an ambulance was to save lives.
Now wokeness and pretending to save the planet is more important.
20
You will need to have a very large number of ambulances, maybe double or triple the number of ICE engine vehicles to have enough that are fully charged and available.
In any case, as the emergency medical system continues to collapse, an ambulance may have to take a patient to several different hospitals to find one which is available. Will the ambulance have enough range to do so?
And what if the wind stops blowing and the sun stops shining and the grid goes down? What are you going to do then?
50
Attaboy! That’s pretty well what I’ve being saying since ages: “Let the BlueLight Brigade lead the charge THIS NOW before there are no ICE.s available anymore.” Since THEY are not doing it, why should we?
10
Hopefully the idea will have alternate uses besides delivering wind mill blades….
Wonder if the RA Air Force would be interested in this…
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/startup-says-massive-plane-could-make-wind-energy-viable
Moral to the story — Think bigger
Oops – where will the 18/1900m runway be built in the hills?
10
In the Scottish Mountains ? Well I did read the article: 6000 ft hard core runway …. plenty rock available here for that ! Hmm, maybe nosedive the plane into the sand of the Sahara etc, and poke the blades out of ….( no allowed tae say ) [Jist be’n sarcastic and silly to match( try) the story’s idea – but they have the advantage over me ( of being silly) ]
10
In a way this is the problem, past generations did TOO good a job. Everone became complacent. The nation at the moment is like teenagers moving out of home, they’re now free to party all night. It won’t be until next week that they will wake up to a pigsty of a flat, with no food or clean clothes. Of cause ‘next week’ on a national time line is 5-7 years.
20
Co2is an absolute necessity for life.
Kalm Keith
May 6, 2022 at 1:03 pm
CO2 in the human body is a balance between production via normal activity and removal of excess from bloodstream.
Where CO2 builds up in the bloodstream it must be removed via the wonderful lungs we have.
Bloodstream CO2 levels are monitored by the CNS which presumably signals the lungs to either work harder or slow down.
Interestingly the CNS can not receive info when CO2 levels drop below a certain level and at this point it stops telling the lungs what to do: they cease activity. Death results.
Too much oxygen can reduce CO2 below the critical point and life stops; many people are aware of this and at the end of life can peacefully move on with an altered breathing pattern which I’ve described previously.
In that sense the gas known as Oxygen can be seen as the most dangerous gas on Earth.
The term Cheyne-Stokes breathing is mentioned in this regard but it doesn’t seem to be the same process I’ve seen and understand.
00
Frederick,
I’m hopeful that people will wake up to the energy fiasco quite soon and reject the modern hippie ideals. When shown a better way of doing things most folk cotton-on. How many people run the old 60W incandescent light bulbs to-day?
My last lead/acid car battery cost $310 and I hope to get 6 years out of it but my wife’s old Isuzu diesel Jackaroo has a tiny LiFePO4 with 6 capacitors which provide the actual cranking power. It cost $490(AU) but should outlast 3 lead/acids. To help keep it fully charged I’ll glue a small flexible PV panel to the roof.
I’m guessing that by 2034 very few lead/acids will be sold and higher quality cars will come with inbuilt capacitor based alternatives.
00
And yet they’re not running out any time soon except for political courage and common sense. The known reserves of brown coal in Victoria are still 400 years. Some, 430 Billion tonnes. From Resources Victoria.
10