This new study pokes holes in the dogma five different ways
Credit to Kenneth Richards who found the study and discussed it at NoTricksZone
Bones in a cave inside the Arctic circle show that the world was hotter, the climate is always changing, and life adapts very well.
A special cave in far northern Norway has a a trove of thousands of old bones. They are deposited in layers that stretch back from 5,800 years ago to 13,000 years ago. And it’s been a radical change: at the start, the cave was submerged under the ocean, so the bones are mostly marine species. But a few thousand years later the weather was warm, and birds and mammals had moved in. By 6,000 years ago the researchers estimate it was the hottest part of the Holocene and 1.5°–2.4°C warmer than the modern era of 1961–1990.
After that, the cave was blocked by scree, and the bone fragments sat there seemingly undisturbed for nearly 6,000 years while the ice sheets moved and the Vikings came and went and the world cooled. Then in 1993 someone happened to build a road nearby and found the cave. Now a team have analyzed the DNA in the layers and discovered that far from being an ecological disaster, when the Earth was hotter the Arctic must have been full of life. They found lemmings, shrews, voles, hares, geese, frogs, seals, and pheasants. They were also surprised to find dogs and cats there, even though there were no humans at the time (that we know of). The DNA test couldn’t distinguish whether these were our domesticated furry friends or their wild cousins. In any case, there were species that lived there then, that don’t live there now because it’s too cold.
Some of these species are headed northward again, and small children at universities are probably being frightened and told this is “unprecedented”, but the truth is that the Holocene really was hotter than today, and some of these species were seemingly happy about that for thousands of years. The other truth is that climate change happens naturally, even without SUVs, and that species have migrated. Climate modelers have been trying to erase the Holocene period for ten years, because it was hotter than now, but CO2 levels were lower. When they are not denying it happened, they call that mismatch “the Holocene conundrum”.
Remember all the panic about animals being climate refugees forced to move because we drive cars? Well they’ve been there before.
Ancient DNA and bones reveal species on the move as a result of climate changes thousands of years ago
In the press release the researchers put in all the usual inappropriate warnings about how climate change is real, and this study can’t be used against the (billion dollar) climate activist industry. It just reminds us how captured science is. Let the hostages speak:
She emphasizes that what happened to the climate after the last ice age cannot be used to take away the seriousness of what is happening as a result of current anthropogenic climate change.
“But this knowledge can help us to better analyze how climate change will affect animal diversity in the future,” says Boessenkool.
But the truth seeps out anyway — the species today are just returning towards areas they lived in thousands of years ago:
The species they list from this layer [5,800 years ago] include forest birds such as grouse and a genus of fish called Seriola (amberjacks), which is also now heading north again with a warming climate.
“We see that some of the species that are moving northwards today have been here before. We know that it was warmer in the past, but we don’t have a full overview of which animal species existed this far north,” explains Boilard.
Bones and DNA are particularly well preserved in caves. Here from the excavation in Nygrotta. Credit: EvoCave
Somehow freshwater fish colonized the area “immediately” after the ice retreated. Ain’t life remarkable?
The researchers also found remains of freshwater fish from a remarkably early phase.
“In the deposits dating back 9,500 years, we found remains of freshwater fish. We don’t know for sure how these fish migrated into Norway after the glaciers melted. But we see that freshwater fish arrive very early in the north, almost immediately after the ice disappeared,” says Boilard.
The changes at this one site are just extraordinary. We humans have some crazy idea that the land and oceans we see today have always been that way:
The lowest and oldest sediment layer examined was 13,000 years old. At that time, the sea level was above the cave opening and the climate was colder than today. In this layer the researchers only found fish species that are adapted to cold conditions, such as cod and ling.
Due to land shifting and ice melting the relative sea level was effectively 90 meters higher… then the ice sheet advanced again:
Layer C (13,069–12,744 cal B.P.) coincides with the Late Glacial interstadial (14.0–12.9 ka), a period of mixed climatic conditions during which the Scandinavian Ice Sheet margins retreated rapidly and the relative sea level rose to ~90 m higher than present day (35, 45). In the vicinity of Nygrotta, the ice sheet had retreated deeper into the fjord, and exclusively marine-related species recovered from the sand deposit in layer C support its interpretation as shallow marine sand and Nygrotta being submerged at the time. Shortly after the deposition of layer C, the Scandinavian Ice Sheet readvanced again in the transition to and during the early part of the Younger Dryas stadial
For the cat lovers, the researchers did get excited that they might have found the furthest north and earliest evidence of Felis Silvestris, though poor old Felis was wiped out at the end of the Holocene maximum as temperatures fell again:
If the Nygrotta samples represent wildcat (F. silvestris), then this would be remarkable, as this would be the highest latitude location for this species ever (74). The potential authentic identification of wildcats is an exciting prospect as remains across Europe are scarce (74, 75). In Fennoscandia, the species has been recorded in Sjælland, Denmark, as part of the boreal fauna dated to 9.5 ka B.P. (24). In Norway, wildcats have only been found at three sites: Vistehola [~8.5 ka B.P.; (31)], Auve [(5–4 ka B.P.; (76)], and Årdal rock shelter (4–3 ka B.P.; Archive University Museum of Bergen)—all in southern Norway approximately 850–1000 km south of Nygrotta. The last evidence of wildcats in Fennoscandia comes from the site of Næsbyholm, Denmark, and dates to 2000 cal B.P. (77–79). The species became extinct in Fennoscandia following the end of the HTM, as temperatures dropped and snow cover increased above the wildcat threshold of 20 cm over a 100-day period (75, 80). Estimates of past wildcat habitat limited their past distribution to the southwest coast of Norway (81), but our potential finding of wildcats at Nygrotta suggests that their range may have extended much further north already during the Early Holocene, at least along the coastline. Such early presence of wildcats would also be evidence for relatively low amounts of snow cover along Norwegian coastlines during this time and would suggest that the boreal pine and birch forests in Norway from 8 ka B.P. (82, 83) provided suitable habitat for this species.
It also opens the novel idea of using feral cats as a proxy for snow-cover.
And if anyone wonders if the Holocene warming was just a Norwegian thing, there are many more Holocene markers all over the world. 6,000 years ago the world was so much warmer, the Sahara was lush green and wet. Sea levels were 1 – 2 meters higher around Australia, temperatures were warmer in Greenland and in Vostok, and people saw a global wave of warmth in 6,000 boreholes drilled across 6 continents. The deepest oceans around Indonesia were 2 degrees warmer 10,000 years ago. Pacific Islands were born in the last 5,000 years as the oceans cooled and shrank. And fires were far worse 4,000 years ago in Northern Australia.
REFERENCE
Aurélie Boilard et al, (2024) Ancient DNA and osteological analyses of a unique paleo-archive reveal Early Holocene faunal expansion into the Scandinavian Arctic, Science Advances . DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.adk3032
Press Release https://phys.org/news/2024-04-ancient-dna-bones-reveal-species.html
Top Image by travel_pics from Pixabay
As I have said before, warmists are “staticists” who don’t fundamentally believe that the climate ever changes or in the mechanisms that cause such changes.
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And during the naturally warm period about 9,000 years ago (+/-) that’s around when civilisation started to emerge and thrive (e.g. Gobekli Tepe c. 9,500 to at least 8,000 BCE). (Neolithic Period, about 10,000BCE-2,000BCE.)
And then further episodes of great civilisational advancement were made during the Minoan, Egyptian, Roman and Medieval warm periods.
Because of the deliberate dumbing-down of the education system few people seem to be aware of the strong correlation between civilisational progress and warmth.
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Even James Hansen thought it warmer during the Holocene:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/06/13/early-hansen-co-authored-paper-notes-global-mean-temperature-was-perhaps-1-deg-c-warmer-than-today/
In fact a lot of papers show the Holocene was warmer:
https://notrickszone.com/2021/11/11/17-more-studies-show-no-unusual-warming-trend-in-recent-centuries-and-a-warmer-holocene/?fbclid=IwAR3aRNNmDUIlTRNsMZ16Vl6hN4sw0K4hAEEJnrnXavrqrLfU5EDvsHd02Z8
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Just imagine how much faster and more advanced human development would have been if only temperatures could have been kept down for the last few thousand years. Wind-powered snowmobiles, solar-powered cargo sleds, the possibilities are endless and we have been deprived of all of them because of a few idiots recklessly flying in private jets to climate conferences when they should have been helping to build the pyramids.
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That’s according to the Official Narrative that there were no humans in North America. How about Kennewick Man, from about 9,000 years ago? And what it race was he? Not “Indian”, apparently.
Also, the dates of the first “Indians” in North America now seem to be getting adjusted further back into the past.
But as with Australian Aborigines or Maori, you are not allowed to ask who might have come before.
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The article is about a cave in Norway, not North America.
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My error. I was thinking of similiar warming in North America leading to the present day discovery of non-fossilised tree stumps in the Arctic.
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Before?
There were the OIs.
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A few years back it was easy to find reputable studies that dealt with the world’s sea levels.
These studies showed that over the last seven thousand years there had been an undeniable drop of 4.2 meters worldwide up to the present. In some cases the fall was possibly six metres.
Graphs available shewed that after the overshoot following the big melt, the ocean levels fell in an oscillating pattern starting from the 4.2 m with a drop and recovery back to 2.4 m and another bottom out and recovery to 1.2 m.
Sixty years ago our university course required us to study Geology 1. On one excursion our lecturer pointed out that the rock platforms we were seeing on the ocean front were left after the ocean fall of four foot ( 1200 mm) that had taken place over the last two thousand years.
There’s been no noticeable change in local sea levels since then and the reliable Fort Dennison records show essentially unchanged levels in recent years.
More recently I’ve heard of the well known background of the harbour at Ephesus which coincides with our lecturers description.
Most people can appreciate that if sea levels have been falling over the last seven thousand years then the water hasn’t just evaporated, obviously it’s locked up as ice somewhere.
This indicates a good chance that the world is cooling.
Question: why are those graphs of falling sea levels now so hard to find?
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Even less longer ago than that, non-geology science students had the option of doing that as an elective which I did and loved.
I remember excursions studying geology of the Sydney Basin and these were thoroughly enjoyable and informative.
I feel privileged to have graduated from university (three times) before they went completely woke and dumbed-down and at a time when academic integrity and the pursuit of knowledge (even if not in accordance with prevailing beliefs) was encouraged and taken extremely seriously.
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Keith have you any references for the 4m claim? Australia is one of the most stable landmasses, which is why I refer to Lewis et al and the 1-2m sea level fall since the Holocene peak. https://joannenova.com.au/2012/10/australian-sea-levels-have-been-falling-for-7000-years/
Lewis, S.E., et al., Post-glacial sea-level changes around the Australian margin: a review, Quaternary Science Reviews (2012), http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.quascirev.2012.09.006
WA and NSW coastlines are considered the most stable — the continent is revolving around an axis running across the country from WA to NSW. So those are the most useful reference points. A lot of other “sea level rise” is subsidence or lift.
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Hi Jo,
The point I made was in reference to “Worldwide ” sea levels.
And yes, Australia is a very stable land mass.
It’s interesting that the graphs I recall are now not available although there are several graphs available in the links back to previous posts eg 2012, which refer to the drop over the last 7000 years from an initial overshoot of 5.1 meters.
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The story of the last ten thousand years is about the current interglacial period. What is interesting is the plight of Neanderthal Man who no doubt suffered as a result of the last glaciation and essentially disappeared around thirty thousand years ago.
The ice had pushed them towards the equator.
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Apparently Neanderthal man didn’t have the voice box structure to enable various sounds that nuance language development in Homo Sapiens. As languages emerged over 150,000 to 50,000 years ago, to roughly 5000 strains we still have some vestiges of today, it’s quite possible Neanderthal man couldn’t keep up with the conversation and we literally talked them to death! Language was a critical attribute in the development of civilisations.
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Mr and Mrs Nea were forced to move South by the growing ice.
They got well down towards Spain? but were encroaching on established civilizations.
They had large heads and large brains but this may have caused problems during birthing.
The combination of problems saw them disappear.
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Recent DNA analysis has shown Neanderthal genes in everyone. I read a figure of 30%. So it looks like merging rather than dying out. And I am sure I have met a few throwbacks.
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🙂
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Subsaharan Africans generally lack any meaningful quantity of Neanderthal DNA, as I understand it. According to 23 and Me, the highest known amount of Neanderthal DNA in any individual is around 4 percent. Pretty consistently averages 2.5 ish percent all across Eurasia, from Cornwall to Vladivostok. They don’t measure it by percent any more, but rather by number of segments.
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But I wonder how they separate them? And 3% is lower than 30% but quite high too given the binary reduction. A second cousin. For direct ancestors that would be 1/32 or only 5 generations to full Neanderthal. Where 30% is 1/4 or 2 generations, grandparents.
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Any one person has up to 4% Neanderthal genes, and of the entire Neanderthal genome we guess about 20% survives in some form spread across the homo sapiens population. That’s really pretty remarkable. Clearly there was quite a few “interbreeding” events. Possibly also, we picked up some very useful variants of genes, or they wouldn’t have survived and spread to nearly every white or asian descendent.
But there was a huge overlap between the two species. We and they came from the same pool of ancestors 700,000 years ago or so (maybe). At that point we could say that humans and neanderthals shared nearly 100% of their DNA.
Bear in mind we don’t have that many neanderthal genomes to sample.
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It’s quite likely that one of those oscillations, about four thousand years ago, is related to the Noah flooding story that many nations have in their history.
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I am more in favor of the merging of salt water in to the Black Sea
From wikipedia
They proposed that a catastrophic inflow of Mediterranean seawater into the Black Sea freshwater lake occurred around 7600 years ago, c. 5600 BC
Though likely related to fluctuations in the sea water source?
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There are two Black Seas. The lower one now filled with sulphur, anaerobic and deadly. And the upper one, shallow and one 50% bigger. The date has been set at about 5600BC when an earthquake ruptured the narrow (40km) strip which separated the fresh water Black Sea from the Sea of Marmara/Aegean/Meditteranean/Atlantic.
And the water rushed in at about 10 cubic miles a day. That was the Great Flood of Mesopotamian/Jewish/Christian legend. Mt. Ararat borders the Black Sea. Google maps shows both clearly. And it used to show the furrows as the sea fell 100 metres and gouged the bottom. So the great flood of Noah was real.
The crack is called the Bosphorous, a unique 40km river 1km wide separating Europe from Asia. I have cruised through it a few times. Fabulous. Perhaps the busiest waterway in the world for heavy shipping. And this made Istanbul/Constantinople very rich. For interest, the Bosphorous has two currents heading in different direction, top and bottom. People really do not understand the ocean and its movement of heat and gases and salt. But they know all about the weather?
I remember a National Geographic. Robert Ballard I remember. Found villages on the shores of the old lake. So a piece of the bible buried in legend which started with a catastrophe. But also meant the Greeks could sail from Athens to the Bosphorous to the Caspian and up the Oxus river before it dried up. There are still castles along the Oxus. And all the way to China. Which explains the amazing statuary in the Chinese tombs with European quality.
But who cares about our history, earthquakes, volcanoes, meteors? It’s all about the terror of man made Climate Change. And the BOM just ignores massive events like Hunga Tonga because it’s not on their agenda. They would rather talk about aboriginal weather forecasting.
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Thanks, that’s it!
And maybe mount Ararat could be seen from where the ark landed; if there really was an ark.
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Yes, that’s a more logical one.
Likely related to the initial overshoot at the end of the big melt and breaking through a barrier with a more sudden event.
The oscillations would have resulted in a rise of 2 meters max spread over a thousand years. That’s maybe 2mm rise per year and wouldn’t cause any trouble.
As for Noah’s ark, there’s no way it could have been dumped on the top of the mountain where they claimed it might be.
Even after the glacial max 23,000 years ago the big melt only produced a rise or between 125 and 135 meters, a long way below the site on mount Ararat.
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The sea rise for the residents around the shore of the Black Sea saw an increase in sea level the full hundred meters with the flood to Atlantic levels. But that would still leave them only at the height of the sea as it is today. But also at the foot of Mt. Ararat. (5,137 m (16,854 ft)) even if 300km away.
And of course if they were fisherman, they may have had boats. And rode with the flood. The man who took his chickens and horses with him might have been called Noah. And smart enough to take only breeding pairs.
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I knew of the inrush of water when the Bosphorus opened and the finding of villages many metres below current water level but not the connection to the flood of Noah.. It does make sense. I have also heard of a flood story in the ballard of Gilgamesh in Sumerian times and I believe there was another in Indian folklore. Could all these stories relate to the same geologic event? The ark was not big enough to carry seven pair of clean animals and 2 pair of unclean animals plus food for 150 days. A cubit was the length of the forearm and the arc was 50 cubits wide and 300 cubits long with 3 decks, about 11250 square metres in all. That’s bigger than Zuckerberg’s boat but without the diesels.
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A gigantic freshwater lake is so unusual. It would have been the water supply for many communities. And they would have heard the massive 100 metre waterfall long before it affected them. I have seen the furrows in the ocean floor. I find the timing appealing at around 7000 years ago, 5,000 BC among the most advanced societies of Western Turkey and South to the Indus valley.
The archaeology of South Western Turkey is just amazing. Göbekli Tepe and even now earlier buildings from thousands of years earlier. And these are changing our ideas to buildings before the discovery of agriculture, likely built by herdsmen. It is pushing advanced human society and organized labour and masonry with buildings back to 10,000BC, 12,000 years ago as more sites are discovered with buildings. It is a very exciting time for archeologists, even if Eastern Turkey is not one of the easiest areas, being so primitive and close to the major war areas of Iraq, Syria, Iran and East Anatolia in general. But an event like the catastropic and sudden flooding of the Black Sea would be a relatively recent event and understandably enter the folklore of the entire region. The bit which is missing is the 40 days and nights of rain, but that may have been mist from the world’s largest waterfall.
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And many young people in the USA believe that Joan of Arc was a relation of Noah. lol.
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🙂 🙂
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I read a childs’ historic description of Joan’s fate. Apparently she was burned to a steak.
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Try and keep this to ourselves as we don’t want to upset the fools who would like us to believe that nothing ever changes naturally. I forgive the researchers for genuflecting to the climate change cabal as they want to keep their funding coming. They are doing good work and the truth they are finding will be useful when truth once again becomes fashionable.
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Been following Tony Heller on Twitter ( now X ) for years. Back when he was also called Steve Goddard. Every now and then he would post a picture of how the climate alarmists would depict the past – a scene from the Bambi movie. 🙂
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The “disappearance of the Cordilleran and Laurentide ice sheets from North America provide some indications of how much “terra-forming a LOT of water can do.
Flooding on a colossal and continuous scale.
And that was after the ice sheets had thouroughly scoured the real estate back to bedrock.
Oz cannot have escaped entirely. The “inland Sea was there, until it wasn’t. Megafauna “vanishing suddenly”about 12 thousand years ago. In related news, see the recent Diprotodon find as featured:
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/scientists-measure-the-sands-of-time-to-age-shirley-the-diprotodon-fossil/vi-BB1m4PsX
There have been Diprotodon bones popping out of riverbanks across the western Darling Downs for the last century and a half, at least. Some seriously big ribs can be seen in small collections across the region..
What made then “go away”? Was it a new bipedal, tool-using species from the North? How does that date range fit with other major archaeological finds around the globe that indicate a relatively rapid collapse of ecosystems and nascent human activity?
Geology can tell us stuff that the assorted archaeologists, historians, etc WILL NOT. I will believe modern rock-doctors and instrumentation over “narrative” merchants every time. Catastrophism RULES.
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It took decades for the views of J Harlen Bretz about the massive Missoula Floods in eastern Washington state USA and down the Columbia River Gorge to be accepted because his views didn’t follow the Official Narrative. He was ridiculed for them at the time but now there is no question they happened, and on an unimaginable scale. Perhaps warmists, being staticists, might not accept such events however.
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Mr. Maddison: This post and many similar posts about vast floods and ice are brushed off as “regional” by the CliSci’s and their troll minions. I admit to being a bit fascinated by folks who, one day, tell you this evidence is “regional”; but turn on a dime to say some present day flood (tiny by any comparison) is AGW. I shouldn’t be fascinated by such mendacity, but I like to see train wrecks, too.
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In Australia the megafauna went extinct around 40,000 years ago because of environmental change.
https://www.uow.edu.au/media/2020/fossil-discoveries-reveal-the-cause-of-megafauna-extinction.php
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“huge reptilian carnivores and mega-herbivores that went extinct around 40,000 years ago, well after humans arrived onto mainland Australia [] we find no role for humans in the extinction of these species of megafauna. [] Instead, we do find that their extinction is coincident with major climatic and environmental deterioration both locally and regionally, including increased fire …”.
Well after humans arrived, increased fire, and no human role. What a joke.
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Forty thou back was the middle of the last big glaciation and although Australia didn’t have anything like the ice cover of the Northern hemisphere, it was undoubtedly going to be uncomfortable for the megas.
When driving to Canberra the rounding of the landscape can be seen between the retaining hills.
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Its official, the Australia megafauna became extinct because of a geomagnetic excursion and not the hand of man 42,000 years ago.
‘This last major geomagnetic reversal triggered a series of dramatic events that have far-reaching consequences for our planet. They read like the plot of a horror movie: the ozone layer was destroyed, electrical storms raged across the tropics, solar winds generated spectacular light shows (auroras), Arctic air poured across North America, ice sheets and glaciers surged and weather patterns shifted violently.
‘During these events, life on earth was exposed to intense ultraviolet light, Neanderthals and giant animals known as megafauna went extinct, while modern humans sought protection in caves.’ (UNSW)
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No coincidence, scientists have dated the remains of Mungo Man and Mango Lady to between 40,000 and 42,000 years ago.
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40 thousand years is a LONG time for actual bones (NOT mineralized ‘fossils’ to survive in the black, volcanic soil of the Darling Downs, etc.
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No surpise there. It is still very warm in summer, although freezing in winter. And Kjopsvik is at 68.1North. Comparable to our Mawson base in Antarctica at 67.6S (winter population 20)
Consider then Murmansk, a city in Russia of 320,000 people a full degree close to the North Pole at 69N. Cats, dogs, frogs, people.
Murmansk was a major largely ice free supply route for the US supplies to Russia in WWII as they rounded the top of Finland in appalling winter weather, their only protection. I have met sailors who made that terrible journey.
And there are far colder places in Russia with cities, at -70C in winter. In the middle of Russia far from water. And again you get people and dogs and cats and I don’t know about the frogs. But frogs can survive in the blasted desert waiting for the rain. They are hardy.
So it’s no surprise people lived there when it was warmer. And a good reason is that for a few months the sun never set, the snow melts completely and the place abounds with life as the migration North commences for the summer. The real enemy for humans is not wolves or lions or bears or freezing cold or heat, but other humans. And with so many places, like the fjords, the rugged cliffs of the Norther Meditteranean and the hill fort cities or Bastides or the waterless desert, it pays to live where you cannot be easily attacked. Even if you have to suffer for the winter.
The alarmists would have you believe that a move of 1C or 2C in temperature is a disaster for humans. You would barely notice such a small change. And it would not matter in any respect. That is a fantasy of the IPCC/UN. And the oceans are not boiling.
In fact most people would rather be warmer every day, especially in winter when it matters. And most holiday in warmer places. So this world ending 1C or 2C is just ludicrous.
Look at Dubai, totally artificial, all food flown in, desalinated water, even the bus stops in the desert air conditioned and the platforms at the train stations. An amazing 5 million people in the world’s most artificial unsustainable, unliveable city. And loving it. And that is where they held COP28. COP29 will be in Qatar, an almost identical vision in unsustainability. 130,000 people flew in to discuss the problems living somewhere else.
They are all pulling our legs. Carbon fuels give infinite wealth and power. Only in Australia are we told not to use them. And the ANZ bank yesterday announced they will have nothing to do with oil, gas, coal extraction. And they should know. Like Blackstone and KKR they are caring bankers with a considered ‘Climate Policy’. Only the unelected ultra rich, the sharks, have high morals. Apparently.
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In fact the heat of summer was how time was measured. In Russia Lyete for years, Lyet for summer. It was an expression in English too, to describe someone as being of so many summers. Humans learned how to survive terrible winters just to enjoy the summer.
This is the oddest thing about terrible man made CO2 global warming, of 2C. Wouldn’t that be most welcome in autumn/fall, winter and spring?
Aren’t we talking about a day being slightly hotter on the very hottest days in summer? It would be pleasant on other days. So how can those few extra hot by 2C days mean the end of the world as we know it? More dangerous than nuclear war? Really?
Like increased CO2, most people would be very happy if the long cold months were slightly warmer. So what is the problem?
And you can make the climate change by just getting in your car and driving for an hour or up a hill or to the coast. Terrible Climate Change/Global Warming is a form of madness because no one can say why it’s a problem. And you can forget melting ice flooding Bangladesh.
Surely after 36 years there is a slow realization that there is no problem at all, which means there never was a problem.
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Mawson base in Antarctica at 67.6N
?
🙂
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Thanks.
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Jo, this item has certainly unleashed a wealth of interesting knowledge and common/comment sense. Universities are a misnomer and should be shamed and renamed. The protests currently being staged around the world by faculty and students alike I don’t see how the world can survive under their leadership. Roll on the next ice age.
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The ‘protests’ at university are nothing of the kind. They are extreme and organized activist demonstrations on public land, posing as students. Real university students are a different crowd. They are busy studying. It has always been like this. It’s not about the weather.
But the news outlets want extremists to film. So they film the activists and that feeds the narrative. It’s a publicity cycle well known by activists. It’s why people throw soup at Mona Lisa or block freeways or damage statues and why Osama Bin Laden flew jets into buildings or HAMAS brutally murdered and raped their neighbours at a music festival. All very cold blooded calculations to create outrage and ultimately fame and funding.
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The same could be said of all public displays of anti something or other. I don’t resile from the fact that the objectors are not all active students but at least some of them must be in the same way that not all Union protests are active union members. It’s more a sad reflection on a certain level of our society that feels a need to join in “another existential threat” AKA Mob Mentality.
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“Roll on, the next Ice Age!”
Be careful what you wish for…..
Ice ages are incredibly DRY times..
No evaporation; no precipitation.
Plants die off, animals (and people) die off. From cold and starvation.
Enjoying the “cold”is a modern luxury.
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Bruce: I think the flightless bird knows that, and still says “bring it”, because he may be old like me. I assume I’ll be resting in peace when the cold, dry, vegetable-free ice age comes, and faculty/students (younger than me by a few decades) will suffer.
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Even Wikipedia shows that SLR from 11000 years ago to 6000 years ago was about 55 metres at least.
See the graph at the link. Quite obviously a much warmer period for at least 5000 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Holocene_sea_level_rise
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And they didn’t build windmills.
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Interesting to note that the Younger Dryas didn’t have an impact on sea level, it continued to rise, which suggests the YD was not universal.
The last glacial interstadial 14,000-12,900 sits comfortably in the Boiling Allerod.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas#/media/File:Evolution_of_temperature_in_the_Post-Glacial_period_according_to_Greenland_ice_cores_(Younger_Dryas).jpg
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‘The Younger Dryas, an intensely cold phase beteen 12,900 years and 11,700 years, was thought to have been a global phenomenon. Burrows (2012) suggests the southern hemisphere did not cool during this period; rather, temperatures were actually 2 degrees warmer than today.’
(ResearchGate)
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El Gordo, how would we know if the YD seas shrank and rose again? It seems like a tough ask. Somewhere, someone found a layer of sea shells that became mangroves and then went back to sea shells? I’m just curious… So I’m wondering how we can definitively rule out the sea fall and rise 13,000 years ago.
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The Smithsonian provides a timeline for Humans over a long period of time and also claims Humans could’ve been reduced to about 10000 adults about 74000 years ago because of the super-eruption of the Toba volcano in Sumatra Indonesia. Who knows, but seems to be a popular claim by many scientists.
But most references also claim that the Human population had increased to about 170 million by the end of the first century.
That’s a lot of Human thriving over such a short period of about 70000 years. Here’s the Smithsonian link.
https://humanorigins.si.edu/human-characteristics/humans-change-world
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I can’t wait for scientists to react to ‘climate has always changed’ and ‘animals move’.
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Great article Jo. Again, with your meagre resources you’ve outclassed all the major science journalists in this country. May I say you put most of the international ones to shame as well. Also, reading your blog means I don’t have to troll through a heap of others. That appeal to the climate Gaia that now appears in so many scientific papers- it’s just annoying. Almost as annoying as “Welcome to country” and the acknowledgment tokenism we Aussies have to endure.
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It’s the same in a lot of religions, history doesn’t exist or matter prior to the prophesy.
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That’s a fundamental principle of Marxism. Which is why all the history, all the heroes, all the legends have to go out the window. Joan of Arc was a slave trader and St. Francis of Assisi loved his rabbit pie.
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The NH started warming 500 years ago. Last time it started warming 23,000 years ago there was 49,000Gt more ice on land than now and sea level was 138m lower than present. This time around the NH oceans will get much warmer than last time because there is very little glacier calving compared to 23,000 years back. That means the ice will start to accumulate on land within 200 years. So far only Greenland has increasing ice extent and a few northern slopes near the Arctic Ocean coastline
I know this because it has been repeated 11 times in the past million years. The precession cycle drives climate change as the peak solar intensity shifts across the hemispheres. It has a period of 23,300 years. It is the dominant period in sea level and temperature reconstructions.
https://i0.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Fourier_800kyr-1715119804.789.png?fit=1040%2C720&ssl=1
The Holocene has been one of the most stable climatic periods in Earth’s history. Stabilty is coming to an end and it has nothing to do with CO2.. Within 9,000 years, the oceans will be 20m lower than present. That will be unprecedented in human civilisation.
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‘The NH started warming 500 years ago.’
How do you explain the LIA?
‘Last time it started warming 23,000 years ago …’
The last glacial maximum was around 18,000 BP.
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The message was right, but not the numbers. The “within 9,000 years” might be much too large a number too. Time will tell. But I won’t be around to ‘told you so’.
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Not according to Spratt’s 800kyr reconstruction of ocean surface level.
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/contributions_by_author/spratt2016/spratt2016.txt
20 -117.56 10.08 -134.08 -95.64 -116.4 13.9 -134.48 -81.87
21 -120.01 9.14 -134.42 -99.63 -118.61 12.14 -134.47 -91.28
22 -125.82 7.66 -134.52 -106.07 -125.91 9.97 -134.42 -98.21
23 -128.72 5.27 -134.73 -113.3 -128.71 6.49 -134.95 -107.99
24 -130 4.38 -134.58 -118.09 -130 5.48 -134.67 -113.97
25 -126.89 4.5 -134.18 -116.35 -124.87 5.87 -133.38 -110.94
26 -122.4 5.15 -133.23 -113.54 -119.21 6.84 -132.58 -106.41
This also frees very well with temperature reconstructions.
The LIA spans from 1300 to 1850 depending on what proxies are used. The minimum peak sunlight around 1500 is smack in the middle of the LIA as anyone looking at precession would expect. The coldest period was around 1600 and that is due to time lags in the climate system
The NH started getting more sunlight 500 years ago. The minimum temperature was some timer after that due to thermal lags in the oceans. The instrument record shows continuous warming since the first instruments were used in 1670:
https://i0.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/image-107.png?ssl=1
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Interesting paper. Also worth a scan of reference 59, 60 and 84 (the paper will link you straight to them) from 2004, 2005 and 2012 about the ~2 degree warmer period than 1950-1990 mean temps in northern Norway that this faunal collection corresponds with.
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That was very interesting to read Jo. Thank you.
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The Gov is still trying to push ahead with the insane carbon capture project in Queensland putting at risk the great artesian basin. Seeing that there is about 3000 gigatons of CO2 in the atmosphere I’m sure this project will put a huge dent in that amount [sarc]
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Does anyone proposing this insane idea even know what an artesian basin is or how it works?
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So, how are the commercial CO2 extraction operations in SW Qld going, then?
Like ALL of these projects:
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE ‘SPILLAGE’ of vast amounts of taxpayers resources and property into the hands of the undeserving.
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I know this is a repeat, but the NASA discovery that the world had grown two Australias in trees between 1988 and 2014 due to increased CO2 and a more serious conclusion, which they avoided.
NASA have told the world that earth sequestered trillion of tons in CO2 in 26 years. And world CO2 did NOT go down!
There is no sign of any change in CO2 other than steady growth at about 0.5% a year regardless of the trees or China.
The ONLY way this is possible is that CO2 is immediately replaced from the ocean in very rapid dynamic equilibrium. Which is confirmed by the fact that CO2 is a near constant within 1% from pole to pole. Which is odd when you consider only 2% of people live in the bottom third of the planet.
Which busts
1. sequestering
2. carbon credits
3. carbon farming
4. emissions contribute to CO2
5. man made CO2
6. tree growth limited by water, not CO2. Most tree growth is in arid zones.
It means that 98% of CO2 emissions go straight in the ocean which is 50x the size, so they stay there.
There is in fact no evidence that humans can or ever have changed the amount of atmospheric CO2. And there is now proof on a global scale that more CO2 means more trees and in direct proportion. And that More trees do not mean less CO2.
Tell that to Albanese, the CSIRO, BOM, Twiggy Forrest.
So who needs to pollute and potentially destroy Artesian basins in a crazy plan to change CO2 levels?
It is not possible that humans can or have changed CO2 levels. And of course this is all confirmed by radio carbon dating, the only direct measurement technology which differentiates fossil fuel CO2 from other CO2.
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To echo your conclusions, I think you would enjoy this paper.
https://www.mdpi.com/2413-4155/6/1/17
Net Isotopic Signature of Atmospheric CO2 Sources and Sinks: No Change since the Little Ice Age
and:
Carbon cycle modelling and the residence time of natural and anthropogenic atmospheric CO2:
on the construction of the “Greenhouse Effect Global Warming” dogma.
Tom V. Segalstad
http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPhilo/CarbonCycling.pdf
“The apparent annual atmospheric CO2 level increase, postulated to be anthropogenic,
would constitute only some 0.2% of the total annual amount of CO2 exchanged naturally
between the atmosphere and the ocean plus other natural sources and sinks. It is more probable that such a small ripple in the annual natural flow of CO2 would be caused by natural
fluctuations of geophysical processes.”
and here is another quote from the article about how incredibly quickly equilibrium is reached between atmosphere and ocean:
“Experimentally it has been found that CO2 and pure water at 25 degrees C reaches 99%
isotopic equilibrium after 30 hours and 52 minutes; after shaking (like wave agitation) 99% equilibrium is reached after 4 hours and 37 minutes (Gonfiantini, 1981). At 350 ppmv CO2 in the
air, the equilibrium concentration of carbonic acid in pure water will be about 0.00001 molal at 25 degrees C. This chemical equilibrium is reached within 20 seconds (Stumm & Morgan, 1970). At the same temperature, at pH-values between 7 and 9, CO2 reaches 99% chemical equilibrium with water and calcium carbonate in about 100 seconds (Dreybrodt et al., 1996).
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Andrew Bolt showed that Adam Bandt idiot in full flight last night as he ripped into silly Albo about dangerous CC.
Silly Albo should be cutting FFs to the bone and we should be changing to very cheap W & S as on and on Bandt raved.
By now we should all understand that TOXIC W & S are a super expensive disaster and we should be building more BASE-LOAD energy ASAP.
How people like the Bandt loony are elected is a complete mystery and why don’t these idiots understand even the basics about Human FLOURISHING over the last 0.1% of our existence? That’s 1770 to 2024 or even 1950 to 2024?
And why does very recent Human flourishing work so well for Africa with all the problems of our poorest continent?
This UN data is freely available to anyone who has 5 minutes to spare but apparently this is a complete mystery to most pollies, most of the so called Scientists, most of the MSM, even after the last 34 years.
Are these donkeys really that stupid and apparently can’t compare the first 99.9% of Human existence up to 1770 to the 254 years up to 2024? Don’t forget this very recent Human Flourishing is easily found online and yet the so called best brains (?????) in the world are still confused about the REAL world data?
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Climate change is great. If its too warm its climate change. If it’s too cold, its climate change. In fact with climate change you can have both cooling and warming at the same time. There is certainly some acknowledgment that the earth has cooled since Roman times and definitely since Minoan era. But along the way we’ve had these little upticks in earth temps leading to short warming periods. Which is what has happened since the 1850’s. It’s the Magic Pudding of climate. Cut and come again or say some magic words and your steak and kidney pudding turns into a steamed apple cake for dessert. (anyone not familiar with the Magic Pudding story – try author Norman Lindsay in your search)
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What I love is the sophistry that Climate is not the weather.
So ‘Climate Scientists’ are not meteorologists and v.v.
But when you get a huge weather event, that is self evident proof of Climate Change. With the slightest realization of the hypocrisy.
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And the other one is the Climate Change is the reason for all droughts and flooding rains. Without the comprehension that it cannot be responsible for both because they are just the opposite of each other. Or as Tim Flannery said, droughts will become longer and more frequent. Except that if they become longer they will join up and become fewer.
Still what can you expect from a faux scientist whose degree was in English in Australia. And still cannot see a logical contradiction.
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The recognition of hypocrisy, or contradiction, requires intelligence. That is a rare commodity in those circles.
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This is consistent with known Milankovitch cycles. The evidence in Norway probably, in itself, says little or nothing about the earth’s climate as a whole. Precession of the axises made for a major increase in summer insolation relative to today at that latitude. It was nearer in climate to today’s subtropics but other parts of the globe were, weather wise, effectively further north, or south, of where it was then warmest.
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It will be interesting to see the reaction from the Doom is Nigh crowd to this finding. Ignore? Attack? Perhaps an orchestrated pressure campaign to have it retracted on some pretext.
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The Holocene was not ‘hotter’ than today. It was ‘warmer’.
Please don’t adopt the loaded language the alarmists use to distort reality.
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The cave was first submerged. Meaning it was formed by the sea. Then a few thousand years later it was dry, above sea level so land mammals and birds moved in. This rise was caused by the isostatic rebound of the north Baltic shield caused by the earlier melting of a few kilometers of ice cap resting on it.
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So did people.
December means 10th month. Why 10th month?
Answer says because it came from the old Roman Calendar brought in by Romulus, Rome’s founder and that had only ten months not 12.
Still why 10 months? The new calendar added two months to the beginning. Jan and Feb. It’s said the winter months were not important as no farming took place in the winter.
A better answer might be found by examining the 1000’s of things B G Tilak said in his “The Arctic home in the Vedas”
Tilak made exhaustive arguments on why the ancient Aryan’s once lived in the polar region near the North Pole. He address’s the Roman Calendar in particular as one of his arguments in Chapter VIII, The Cows Walk. https://archive.org/details/b24864882/page/188/mode/2up?ref=ol
The gist of the argument, is that like the Aryan’s that moved to India, others eventually moved to Greece Italy and elsewhere. At the very North on the pole, the sun takes a month to rise, followed by 4-5 months of Sun with out it setting and one month to set with the remaining time in darkness. Basically 6 months dark, six months light minus month long sunsets and sun rises. The users of this calendar were not exactly at the pole so they saw two months of total night. It’s this two months that was not part of the calendar which is his argument.
Tilak wrote his book in 1903 and basically did not get much support outside a small group of academics (British Rule and Tilak being one of India’s founders of independence/6yrs jail once and 18mos another time for being vocal about it kept his arguments squashed) , however science has been slowly catching up with him, this article an example, as it is realized the climate at the North Pole has not always been as it is today.
Tilak was also not the only one with these theories. They are also outlined in William Warren’s 1885 book “Paradise Found”, but Tilak was exhaustive in setting out his theories and used ancient Vedic and Zoroastrian texts to back up his claims.
Tilak’s theory really is the best answer, however there’s such a long lapse of time on when ancient Aryan’s had lived in the Artic according to his theory (appox 7000-8000 BC and before) Meanwhile the Roman calendar did not change to 12 months until appox 700 BC. That is large gap to explain. Were they always on the move when they left the artic regions and did no farming and had little need for knowing the cold seasons exactly? Were the clouds too impenetrable during Jan and Feb to see the sun? Don’t know but this theory should earn a place like any other. He calls it a remnant that the priests would not let go of, and finally when they did they likely had totally forgotten their ancient home when they finally settled in one place and had a need for a new calendar.
The Greeks also had what was called the Democratic or Citizens Calendar that was 10 months long existing alongside two 12 month calendrers as their earliest calendrers (lot of calendrers for such an ancient peoples). It’s claimed this was because of 10 tribes sharing the rule. The argument seems flimsy. Made some time before Tilak’s theory was published. Did they too add two months in during the cold period? Allow that the 10 tribe theory is correct, you could still argue back why ten tribes? Could this go back to 10 sets of priests that officiated the ceremonies sharing a month at a time to give homage to 10 months of Sun?
Read Chapter VIII. Better read the whole book.
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