These are Enercon wind turbines in Germany, Lower Saxony. Image: Philip May
UPDATE 3: In the washup, these updates #1 and #2 show the fierce battle to control a message. The Wind Industry denies everything, but reports say the plaintiffs are delighted. If the story spread that wind farms were paying out to homes nearby without even contesting liability, it could go viral in a very bad way for the wind industry. Settling out of court with confidentiality agreements would be a gambit to stop a flood of similar claims. Perhaps the wind industry lost control of the message when the Irish Examiner reported it?
UPDATE #1: Hmm. Industry Body says it is all false? It’s a strange one. The original link has vanished from The Irish Examiner, and a pro renewables site SeeNews which covered their story has disappeared their copy too [cached here, screencap copy too]. SeeNews has posted an update which totally contradicts the news. Did The Irish Examiner get it wrong? Removing the story suggests they did, but they have not issued a correction yet. News of the update comes not from the court, but from the Irish Wind Energy Association, not exactly an impartial source. The IWEA flatly says that no one admitted liability, no families were forced from their homes, and there was no judgement or ruling? Yet the original story claimed all these things.
UPDATE 2: It appears to be a case of industry wordsmithing and damage control. From Pat and Phil and commenters at StopTheseThings: The plaintiffs allegedly are delighted with the result and say liability was conceded from the start, so it was never contested, and no judgement on liability needed to be issued, but the court will decide on damages in April. StopTheseThings hopes to release court papers next month. — Jo
_____________________________
The wind turbine manufacturer is going to have to pay damages, yet to be decided:
Families forced from homes due to wind farm noise win court case
Irish Examiner
11 December 2016
The case was taken against wind turbine manufacturer Enercon who has accepted full liability for causing nuisance to seven families who live up to 1 km from the wind farm. A number of families in Co Cork who were forced to leave their homes because of noise from a nearby wind farm have won a significant case in the High Court this week. The families claim they have been severely impacted by noise since the wind farm began operating in 2011.
This is the first action of its kind in Ireland…
According to acoustic expert Steven Cooper this morning, this case applies to many other families around the world. In Australia wind farms have been built as close as 680 meters from homes. But his research suggests that the gap needs to be at least five kilometers on flat terrain. In hilly areas it may need to be ten kilometers.
In a submission in relation to the draft NSW Wind Farm Guidelines Cooper raises the issue of sleep disturbance and the absence of any criteria to protect the community. In a recent presentation at the Acoustical Society of America Steven discussed the use of heart rate monitoring (by fitbits and other systems) in conjunction with noise monitoring for correlation with complaints and sleep disturbance.
Research on the impact of wind towers is so pathetically immature that governments are not even sure what to measure and what threshold to set. In SA they apparently don’t even have criteria to identify “an adverse impact”.
From his submission (#98), page 333 onwards:
There is no material set out in the SA EPA wind farm guidelines to identify what constitutes a noise impact, and more importantly at what level is deemed there is no noise impact. If the threshold of an adverse impact… has not been identified, then how is this objective … satisfied?
The WHO document identifies that ongoing sleep disturbance can manifest itself into cardiovascular diseases.
When interviewed, Cooper explains the major complaint from residents near wind farms is sleep disturbance, saying “The WHO Nighttime Noise Guidelines refer to road traffic and aircraft traffic that give rise to sleep disturbance.”
Does any government really think road traffic noise is the same as wind turbine noise?
We’ll have a lot more to say about the surprising way that wind farms appear to affect human health and that the criteria issued on planning permits cannot be substantiated.
Many lives have been unfairly impacted by this. Renewable energy is still a $300b a year industry. In this case, the manufacturer will have to pay, but others are responsible for approving tens of thousands of windfarms which are too close to these industrial complexes, and still others are responsible for setting safety standards which are clearly inadequate.
Western governments should pull the pin on the subsidies as fast as they can. The alternative, buying out the uninhabitable homes within this radius, and paying compensation, will cost a lot more. We can turn off these hazards, but we can’t change the worlds temperature, nor make a profit from them.
See StopTheseThings for more.
From commenters below — plantiffs say the original story was largely correct
pat
Al Whyley in comment #9 brings up some contradictory claims. however, it’s important to read a couple of the latest comments at jo’s link, e.g. the third comment:
COMMENT BY stopthesethings: SSTT has it from one of the plaintiffs that the report is correct. There has not been a trial on liability, as Enercon conceded liability, hence no judgment on that question. The recent appearance in court was when Enercon announced its position. The matter was listed for a hearing in April for the assessment of damages.
***The wind industry in Ireland pressured the Irish Examiner to drop the story, probably on the basis that the was technically no actual decision on the facts. However, the result is as reported, qualified by the fact that no judgment has been delivered, none was required. The defendant decided in the end to not contest liability. The plaintiffs are delighted that they will not have to fight on liability. However, one of their experts, Alun Evans was angry that he would not be cross examined on his report, he wanted there to be binding findings of fact, rather than a mere concession of liability.
https://stopthesethings.com/2016/12/17/irish-high-court-finds-wind-turbine-maker-liable-for-noise-nuisance-7-irish-families-to-get-millions-in-punitive-damages/
Phillip Bratby
Also a later comment by STT:
“the result reported is correct. STT’s operatives are in contact with the plaintiffs. Liability was not contested, in the end. One of the experts, Alun Evans was disappointed that he did not get to give evidence. Enercon (and the wind industry) were terrified of the ramifications if the Court heard evidence and made inevitable factual findings. Damages are to be assessed in April next year. Although we expect Enercon to be pressured by the wind industry to pay out of court settlements with confidentiality clauses attached. However, the result reported is correct. We hope to publish the court papers in the New Year.”
h/t David B
Photo: “Windpark-Wind-Farm” by Philip May – Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons: A Wind farm. The wind turbines are manufactured by Enercon. This photo was taken up from air. During a flight from Braunschweig to Hildesheim (in Germany, Lower Saxony).
At last; some recognition of the health problems caused by these wind turbines.
293
Yes, I think infrasound is dangerous…I believe at the right low frequency, sound can literally kill a man…the fact that these wind turbines are now being demonstrated to be hazardous to health and a court upheld it, means they have a limited life span as a cozy little earner….
Truth be told, the sooner this info circulates into the MSM and social media, the better….
80
Original, let’s hope that the courts also find that greedy politicians and landowners ready to sell out their neighbors and leave for greener pastures share in the penalties.
50
Being a self funded retiree, I visited my finacial consultant last week, to review my portfolio.
I asked I any of the companies I have invested in have any exposure to “Renwable Energy”
He asked if I wanted to direct some capital in that direction.
My fit of choking and coughing starled him, and set him back somewhat.
I said “Not likely, “or words to that effect.
Following The Donald’s election, and the case in Ireland, I said that sector is in for very hard time in the very near future, a year should do it.
He said it still looked positive, so I gave home a few web sites to have a look at.
Don,t know if he did.
490
You should have asked what the point is to pay taxes to pay subsidies for wind turbines and then pay inflated electricity prices for renewable energy (so called) that cannot be identified at your power box?
210
On topic (for a change) the ABC actually posted a story with electricity prices in it, and guess who comes first?:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-20/which-state-is-paying-the-most-for-power/8133214
Yep, that glorious state leading the charge to renewables nirvana, South Australia.
111
I think we should have the “Trabant Award” ( named after that awful smelly and semi-unctional 2 stroke soviet era eastern-bloc car ) and award to the lollipops and rainbows renewables sector….
80
Sorry…should say “semi-functional” – clearly my keyboard is an early adopter…
“semi-unctional” – is that a real phrase? Maybe within the “holy” orders of the CAGW cult perhaps?
40
I think it refers to giving Moderate Unction instead of Extreme Unction.
10
Picture your typical modern wind-farm. Towers more than
200 feet high that support a turbine housing the size
of a bus. Sweeping the sky, three rotor blades 100-150
feet long … say, listen to that thrumm!
230
If you’ve ever been close to a bird killer the sound it makes goes straight thru you , would not want to live within sight of one .
251
I worked right next to some while doing maintenance work on a pig farm a few years ago, the sound is like a big swoosh swoosh but at a further distance you got a whump whump noise, depending at what angle and distance they were some were silent, the thing that got to me was the sound became almost mechanical so I wore ear plugs for most of the time.
210
earplugs don’t help with infrasonics.
181
they would however, cut out a lot of the overtones…
which would also be very annoying over time.
141
Yes, as KK says @ #15 about the physical effects, the pig farmer was happy to boast how much he got paid each year to have turbines on his property but went very evasive when I questioned how many pigs he lost since they began operating.
181
I remember reading something from Denmark where the breeding of mink was being disrupted by nearby windmills.
[There have been quite a few including one mink farm successfully suing a wind farm from memory. Not that I would be unhappy to see all mink farms closed, but that’s another story. Here is one reference: https://wcfn.org/2014/06/07/windfarms-1600-miscarriages/. -Mod]
30
Like a Helicopter turning.
120
They should put one on the opera house.
In fact all the cities, because that is where all their advocates(crazies) are!
Let them enjoy the benefits of what they flog.
120
Parliament house, Canberra seem ideally located for some wind turbines – one at each corner and a big one at the center in place of the spire. The infrasonics when operating will quickly settle the issue of disturbance and monitoring of the lack of overall output will give a proper indication of their capacity factor.
And the offices for The Greens members and staffers could be wired directly to the turbines
130
“And the offices for The Greens members and staffers could be wired directly to the turbines”
ONLY
81
Yes, then they could truly tilt at windmills, like Don Qixote….
Too many gags here….
40
This is INCREDIBLY GOOD NEWS. !!
Spread it far and wide.
262
But according to the “warminists”, the precautionary principle is paramount and therefore all noise causing windmills must be destroyed.
311
The problem in the UK is that the Government doesn’t recognise that wind turbines emit low frequency noise or excess amplitude modulation. They do not form part of the noise regulations for wind turbines that are specified in ETSU-R-97. The only way to get redress in the UK is to take the wind turbine owner to court, as Jane and Julian Davis did. As we saw in that case, the wind industry prevents the truth from getting out into the public arena. The wind industry in the UK is pure greed and corruption, aided and abetted by successive Government Ministers. Actually, I am being slightly unfair to Government Ministers. It is the civil servants who have been covering up for the wind industry and hiding the facts from the Ministers. However the Ministers have been negligent in not ensuring that they obtain the facts rather than the industry spin.
350
Then take out a “class action”. Get high powered lawyers and prove in court that these “giant wind turbines” are harmful to not only humans, if that is not bad enough, but also to animals. Their only place is offshore where installation & maintenance is significantly more expensive.
40
King G – offshore windmills are just moving the irritation away from land animals – I don’t think marine mammals, or fish, tolerate the thrumming noise pollution much more than we do.
10
Wind Farms Cause Sleep Loss, Stress and Anxiety, Government Review Finds
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/10/31/wind-farms-cause-sleep-loss-stress-and-anxiety-government-review-finds/
182
Unfortunately……
http://renewables.seenews.com/news/update-iwea-refutes-reports-of-irish-court-ruling-over-wind-farm-noise-550303
111
The newspaper maybe
What about the judgement?
70
Thank you Al. This is very odd. That is a renewables publication, and the story has disappeared from the Irish Examiner. Google finds the link, but it goes no where. The same “SeeNews” reported the Irish Examiner story last week, but it too has disappeared the page. Google cache has a copy which I’ve put here.
I have updated the post.
Given that the Irish Examiner has taken the page down it suggests that they got something wrong with the story. But there is no correction from them. Any ideas?
Was an out of court settlement paid and everything went “confidential” (surely not in just a few days)?
Did the newspaper misread some preliminary finding? (In which case there should be some court announcement).
152
Well. I did what I thought might have been the obvious thing and searched for proceedings list at the High Court of Ireland. Found here. Further search on the site reveals a case in 16/3/2016, Bailey -v- Kilvinane Windfarm Ltd.. Search on that page reveals that Enercon were the manufacturers rather than the owners in that particular case. A little homework goes a long way.
110
Unfortunately Pat K you have located the wrong case. The Judgement for the case 16/3/2016, Bailey -v- Kilvinane Windfarm Ltd was decided in March of this year and relates to a breach of planning conditions by the developer operator & is not a noise case.
80
I’m feeling somewhat relieved after reading the update that indicates the plaintiffs did, in fact, prevail. I hope that is the case.
120
The importance of this finding is hard to over-estimate. At last, families in SA, Vic and NSW, not to mention Ontario, Eastern US and numerous other localities world-wide may finally receive the recognition of the travesties set upon them by governments and their “renewable” cronies. The community sell-outs, namely the rent-seekers who lease land to wind farm companies, should also start to worry.
No matter whether (outrageous) planning approval has been received or not, the companies and their project spivs should start losing sleep, just like the victims of their turbines have been doing for some years (unless they’ve been able to flee their residences).
190
Fin , as much as I hate the bird munching fans I don’t begrudge any farmer paid a motza to have them on their property , having said that I’d hate to live anywhere within eyesight or hearing of one so I guess it’s a dilemma for me .
Or to put it another way , I would rather live within two kilometres of a coal fired power station than a wind farm.
152
I would much rather live within sight of a nuclear plant… OH that’s right I do!
(Duke Energy tore down the coal plant just recently.)
150
This is a terrific resource regarding these “bird munching” useless wind turbines….
https://stopthesethings.com/
152
And just think – these Irish turbines are a fraction of the size as many of the turbines currently approved for rural Australia. This court case is just the tip of the iceberg.
141
This is obviously an issue that should be looked into by the EPA in the United States, especially under the Trump administration. With the new mindsets at the top, proper environmental oversite of wind farms may be achievable yet. One can hope.
131
Under Trump the the “greenie states” will continue with their RE obsession – even despite govt subsidies evaporating. So clearly debt ridden California will head further down the gurglar. And all those Republican States – boom time with “cheap base load energy generation” thanks to fossil fields – manufacturing industries to boom in the red states. And in four years time expect GOP to do a 2nd term. The Greenies will be green with envy and be so distraught that they will be seeking therapy in their droves – boom-time for therapy practices on the West Coast & NE.
151
The only way the “greenie states” will get renewables after the Federal govt subsidies evaporate is to pay the subsidies themselves. As they push electricity prices higher business will close or migrate and unemployment will rise, so tax collections will drop, and budget deficits rise. At some stage they will have to start dismissing public servants, teachers, health department employees – then the greenies will start to lose interest in combatting AGW.
161
I do so love the sound of”Greenies”heads exploding in the morning.
40
And now Trump has been officially declared the winner.
Cheers,
Dave B
50
Al Whyley in comment #9 brings up some contradictory claims. however, it’s important to read a couple of the latest comments at jo’s link, e.g. the third comment:
COMMENT BY stopthesethings: SSTT has it from one of the plaintiffs that the report is correct. There has not been a trial on liability, as Enercon conceded liability, hence no judgment on that question. The recent appearance in court was when Enercon announced its position. The matter was listed for a hearing in April for the assessment of damages.
***The wind industry in Ireland pressured the Irish Examiner to drop the story, probably on the basis that the was technically no actual decision on the facts. However, the result is as reported, qualified by the fact that no judgment has been delivered, none was required. The defendant decided in the end to not contest liability. The plaintiffs are delighted that they will not have to fight on liability. However, one of their experts, Alun Evans was angry that he would not be cross examined on his report, he wanted there to be binding findings of fact, rather than a mere concession of liability.
https://stopthesethings.com/2016/12/17/irish-high-court-finds-wind-turbine-maker-liable-for-noise-nuisance-7-irish-families-to-get-millions-in-punitive-damages/
100
Also a later comment by STT:
“the result reported is correct. STT’s operatives are in contact with the plaintiffs. Liability was not contested, in the end. One of the experts, Alun Evans was disappointed that he did not get to give evidence. Enercon (and the wind industry) were terrified of the ramifications if the Court heard evidence and made inevitable factual findings. Damages are to be assessed in April next year. Although we expect Enercon to be pressured by the wind industry to pay out of court settlements with confidentiality clauses attached. However, the result reported is correct. We hope to publish the court papers in the New Year.”
170
Brilliant. Thank you both. Post Updated.
UPDATE 2: It appears to be a case of industry wordsmithing and damage control. From Pat and Phil and commenters at StopTheseThings: The plaintiffs allegedly are delighted with the result and say liability was conceded from the start, so it was never contested, and no judgement on liability needed to be issued, but the court will decide on damages in April. StopTheseThings hopes to release court papers next month. — Jo
191
Wind turbines do not create noise they create pulses which are a very different thing.
These energy pulses work through the largest organ in the body, the skin, and also enter the body via the nasal and oral cavities where pressure can be applied to the heart lung system.
These pressure pulses interfere with and override neural signals both to and from the brain causing severe disturbance to normal processes such as regulation of heart rate and breathing.
Research on this issue has in the past, mostly been done in Iron Curtain countries where people cannot sue their employer. Western economies have hidden this problem to avoid compensation payments.
KK
180
Maybe,
Steven Cooper gave a talk at the Australian Environmental Foundation Conference 2012.
http://aefweb.info/display/conference.html
He said:
70
Hi Peter,
Not sure what you are saying there.
Noise control is about stopping people from losing their hearing.
That’s not an issue with wind turbines which produce ULF pulsing which overrides the central nervous system.
Governments love to confuse the issue by calling for noise measurements. It’s bad news indeed when a turbine is regulating your central nervous system instead of your brain doing the job.
No wonder it drives people mad.
141
Maybe the Russians are doing good research but according to Steven Cooper (who studies in this area) no one else is!
50
I am not meaning to say that Wind Turbine noise is Not Harmful.
Sadly the Australian Medical Association even has a position paper on wind turbines. This seems to be based on nothing except the opinions of the leftist social activists who now control the AMA. The AMA gives social credibility to the renewable energy industry when they should stay well away and concentrate on issues which doctors may know something about.
http://aefweb.info/data/AMA%20statement%20on%20wind%20farms%20and%20health%202014.pdf
121
This could open Pandoras’s box. Noise/vibration from wind turbines impacting on human lives. Lawyers to have a field day?
100
The “Social Cost of Wind Turbines” ?
This could become a thing ? . . . except that sceptics aren’t very good at being activists.
Sad to say, but we really suck in that department.
70
Mostly because we are too busy working so the rent-seekers can stay fat and happy off the sweat of our brow.
131
No.
The reason is that sceptics are naive enough to think/hope that truth matters. It does not.
You will have noticed that this windmill story has a linchpin: the windmill manufacturers had their lawyers accept liability to avoid Court findings of truth, then had the plaintiffs sign confidentiality agreements, with large compensation contingent upon these, in order to prevent this acceptance of liability becoming widely known. A deliberate tactic, of course.
Yet comment after comment here ignores this hard-faced tactic. Pollyanna pirhouettes again, I’m afraid. This situation seems most likely to fizz and spark in minute quantities like a wet bunger for years – or until Govts figure out a legislative fix to help the windmill industry out (huge legal costs for plaintiffs would be a fertile area to begin with).
20
These wretched wind turbines are one of the most disgusting aspects of the whole climate change scam. The only people obtaining any benefit from them are the manufacturers and they are gaining big time.
Consumers suffer through illness if exposed to them, they are unsightly and ruin and contaminate the environment, kill wildlife and cause grass and other fires when they quite frequently catch fire. Wind turbines vastly magnify power prices and cause power supply to break down, which over medium term ruins the economy. Living near them is like having helicopters permanently circling near you and yet they contribute nothing to the power grid! Give us a break!!!!!!!!
341
Nice; about time those sufferers were truly recognised. Now what about the rest of us who are paying unnecessarily high electricity prices? I’m not necessarily asking for monetary compensation, not yet anyway – just recognition that all this Green energy silliness will do nothing of any real consequence to the climate, and thus is all a waste of time and money.
91
Wind turbine infrasound https://youtu.be/Fd64sxabuMM
Australian video – wind turbine infrasound https://youtu.be/bgtW-F0AcDk
71
Has anyone verified this with the publically available court proceedings?
26
Only one comment on this story…
Hmmmmmm!
10
18 Dec: The Recorder: DIANE BRONCACCIO: Savoy wind turbine plan sparks Hawley (Massachusetts) concerns
After an 11-year process, Minuteman Wind LLC will break ground this month to build five 2.5 megawatt wind turbines on a high ridge in Savoy.
The turbines, on a 293-acre privately owned site, will be 425 feet tall and less than 1,000 feet away from the Hawley town border, on West Hill Road…
Sears said Hawley has its own Wind Facility Bylaw that restricts the height of wind turbines to less than 200 feet. “But this does not have the power to require approval for wind turbines sited on Hawley’s borders or apply conditions on their height or set backs — despite the impact they will have on residents and property owners in the town.” …
Sears said the Savoy project could “have a negative effect on property values in its vicinity (and on Hawley’s tax base) — since no one would choose to live close to such turbines. It is unfortunate that neighboring towns have little say on the siting of wind turbines close to their borders.” …
Crawford said he is concerned about the roads to be traveled by the heavy trucks carrying wind turbine components and thousands of truckloads of gravel and cement. Also, he said, the project will only provide less than 1 percent of electricity used in Massachusetts.
“It will require the fragmenting of one of the largest blocks of undisturbed forest in western Massachusetts,” he said. “This project is about money — not about saving the environment.”
“And then there’s the well-documented noise issues,” he said. “I’m convinced about 200 acres of our land will become undevelopable for residential use in the future.”…
By law, the turbines can cause a 10 percent decibel rise above the normal noise level of an area…
On questions concerning turbine noise, Weisman said all noise issues have been submitted to the state and the project has a Massachusetts EPA certificate…
Savoy, a town of roughly 700 residents, and much state forest land, will see at least $100,000 in annual tax revenues from the turbines under a PILOT (Payment in Lieu of Taxes) agreement…
http://www.recorder.com/Savoy-wind-turbine-plan-sparks-Hawley-concerns-6918768
21
There’s an even better story from Ireland going on: a subsidy scheme for renewable energy which meant that the more energy you used, the richer you got, and attempts to invoke executive authority for it in parliament provoking a walkout of MPs. See
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38363206
50
18 Dec: OmahaWorld-Herald, Nebraska: Paul Hammel: Proposal for wind farm in Sand Hills region is whipping up a ruckus
But that sense of isolation was shattered this spring when a neighbor called to inform the Semins that 30 wind turbines, each more than 400 feet tall, were being planned across the highway…
Over the past few months, sign-toting protesters have lined the street outside the County Courthouse in Valentine, there have been nasty posts on Facebook about “greed” and “stupidity,” and turbulent public meetings have extended past midnight. Lifelong friendships have splintered over opposing views on the $108 million wind farm.
“It saddens me … over a well-intentioned effort, a good, responsible way to help everyone,” said Todd Adamson, a rancher and a board member of Cherry County Wind, a coalition of 70 landowners promoting the wind farm.
The controversy comes to a head this afternoon, when the Cherry County Board votes on whether to permit the wind project, which supporters say comes with a bushel of benefits…DETAILS
The vote comes at a time when there’s growing opposition to wind development across Nebraska, as more rural residents say they don’t want tall turbines spoiling their views, generating noise and threatening birds.
Lancaster County, a year ago, passed tougher noise restrictions that would preclude most wind development in the state’s second-most-populous county…
Johnson said developers are exploring a switch to new, higher-output wind turbines, which would reduce the number of towers from 30 to about 17.
Developers, he said, are also looking at buying a new radar system that allows the blinking red warning lights on the towers to remain off at night until an airplane approaches.
One member of the three-member Cherry County Board, Jim Van Winkle, is a member of Cherry County Wind. He recused himself from the recent public hearing and probably will not vote today. That presents the possibility of a tie vote, which would send the wind farm back to the drawing board.
A lawsuit is a distinct possibility no matter which way the vote goes…
http://www.omaha.com/news/nebraska/proposal-for-wind-farm-in-sand-hills-region-is-whipping/article_7a8bd06d-e12e-5ce9-a203-73ff1f430f87.html
31
18 Dec: VTDigger, Vermont: Dustin Lang: Swanton wind turbines could be larger
Editor’s note: This commentary is by Dustin Lang, of Swanton who lives adjacent to the proposed Swanton Wind project.
The Kingdom Wind industrial wind turbines in Lowell were proposed to be Vestas V90 or a comparable Siemens 2.5 MW model. The Vestas V90 is a 3.0 megawatt turbine that stands 449 feet tall. All the sound modeling, visual impacts, environmental impacts and all other impacts of the wind turbines were based on these turbine models. After the Public Service Board approved a certificate of public good for the project, the developer, Green Mountain Power, changed the wind turbine model to Vestas V112. This is a 3.3 megawatt model that is 459 feet tall…
The lateral shift of the turbines along the ridge line to accommodate the increased blade length and the change in sound modeling for the louder, larger turbines did not change the impact of the project according to the PSB…
Swanton Wind has suggested Goldwind, a turbine manufacturer from China, as a possible turbine manufacturer in their permit application and has given only a height category of 499 feet. Their sound monitoring study was based on a Goldwind GW109/ 2.5 megawatt turbine, but a 2-3 megawatt turbine range for the final project was given by Swanton Wind. The larger the generator the louder the noise and the 2.5 megawatt generator was forcing the limits of the liberal PSB sound standards. As a matter of fact the southernmost turbine (T5), near Lebel Drive (St. Albans Town) will have to be governed so it never reaches maximum output because if it did it would exceed the PSB noise standards. That is how much this project is being forced to fit into this very confined space…
The sound level threshold of 45 dBA is barely being met with the computer models. What would an actual field test with variable meteorological and atmospheric factors (moisture conducts sound) reveal? …
The 45 dBA threshold is actually an average over a one-hour period which means the sound level can spike to 60-70 dBA (vacuum cleaner) and still meet the threshold — day or night!…READ ON FOR ‘TAKINGS PERMITS’ RE BIRDS, BATS, ETC…
https://vtdigger.org/2016/12/18/dustin-lang-swanton-wind-turbines-larger/
31
My blog on living next to a wind farm in Co. Limerick Ireland, http://windfarmtorture.blogspot.ie/p/why-this-blog.html
150
Good outline of the problem.
50
It’s not been a good week on the Emerald Isle for proponents of AGW madness. See attached link related to the political fallout of a “botched heating scheme”.
Seriously – you couldn’t make this stuff up.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38363206
60
All those who think wind-turbines quiet,
Should move in beside them and try it,
For years in that stillness,
With no issues or illness,
To persuade a few others to buy it.
110
There were news items last year about various wind turbine sites closing down as management notified shareholders that because the equipment was prematurely due for replacement the costs involved wiped out previous dividend gains and therefore were considered not to be worth proceeding with.
50
Dennis,
Do you have any links/references?
10
The Union of Concerned Scientists has sent me a Christmas email:
I should laugh because it is such blatant fibbing. But some how it makes me angry.
Also I am very concerned for the 14,251 UCS members who probabaly think that they are supporting something Noble and Good.
101
Has Kenji paid his dues, do you think? 🙂
91
Kenji (Anthony Watts’ Dog) probably got a similar message to me.
70
So you have pitched in? 😉
20
Thank you, Jo Nova, for showing the cowardly response of AGW promoters who abused the basic rights of individuals to promote government policies based on false science.
Tyrannical governments have little or no respect for divine rights granted to humans living on a water-covered planet located exactly one AU (astronomical unit) from a pulsar-centered star – to abundant energy, water and inalienable rights to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
My research mentor, the late Paul Kazuo Kuroda, risked his life to make certain abundant energy was not hidden from the public by the tyrannical world government that took control of the world after WWII.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/TRIBUTE_TO_KURODA.pdf
May Donald Trump succeed in restoring these basic rights to the public.
81
The “behind-the-scenes“ battle is Trump vs the Bilderbergers, as the New American reported in June 2016.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/item/23440-bilderberg-elites-stop-trump-boost-hillary-stop-brexit-boost-migration
Trump won the election and the vote of the Electoral College today, but the battle continues “behind-the-scenes.“
The internet, email and financial markets may first collapse in the battle ahead, but Trump will likely succeed because he is aligned with truth, justice and respect for the inalienable rights of humans.
20
Thanks for the news about the electoral college vote. I was worried about “faithless electors”.
I remember when “Truth, Justice and The American Way” preceded every episode of Superman on TV.
20
19 Dec: WaPo: Todd Cort: The electoral college is thwarting our ability to battle global warming
In atmospheric carbon dioxide terms, the eight years of the Bush administration represent the rise from 370 parts per million to 385 parts per million as result of global emissions (about 13 percent of the rise in carbon dioxide since the days of Brearley and about 0.15oC average global rise in temperature)…
The Obama administration did not solve climate change, but it did make significant strides both domestically and in international agreements…(NO MENTION OF THE RISE FROM 385 TO 400 UNDER OBAMA?)…
We focus today on the role of the U.S. president to lead on global issues and so we are anxious when that leadership disappears. In the case of climate change, it will be the rest of the world, and millions of leaders, that will move us forward…
The combination of two administrations headed by presidents who lost the popular vote has and will slow our progress down, and that delay contributes to an ever worsening global climate problem…
(RE THE WRITER: Todd Cort is a lecturer in sustainability at the Yale School of Management and faculty co-director of the Yale Center for Business and the Environment)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/19/the-electoral-college-is-thwarting-our-ability-to-battle-global-warming/?utm_term=.3f683f813054
comments are mostly – and appropriately – scathing e.g:
So, I guess if we just take this to its logical conclusion, we should just appoint Obama king and he can decide who to appoint who will prevent global warming before he dies.
Yale School of Management just lost 100 students to Wharton, Kellogg and U Chicago.
***u have to link to see his smug face:
Yale – ***Todd Cort
In addition to these specific research areas, Dr. Cort educates and collaborates with investors and fund managers to effectively integrate sustainability into investment strategies. These integrated investment strategies range from fixed income focused funds to venture capital strategies…
http://som.yale.edu/todd-cort
51
Any chance that those “focussed funds” are named? Purely for avoidance purposes.
20
Surely governments should have some liability, for not only allowing the installation of these monstrosities, but actually passing legislation to approve their installation, and subsidising that installation.
60
I would imagine anti-science governments will get around the problem by simply legislating that bird blenders are there for the greater public good and legislate that people can’t sue for the personal or environmental damage they cause.
61
Trump has just won the Electoral College Vote – with Texas the last State to call, 36 of 38 votes for Trump, taking him from 268 votes to 304 (one vote for Ron Paul, one for John Kasich).
(Clinton actually lost 4 or even 6 votes, so her total will be reduced.)
FakeNewsMSM & Clinton campaign will move on to this date now! January 6, 2017 – Congress counts and certifies the electoral votes.
WaPo’s tool can get to work:
18 Dec: Fortune: New Tool Will Fact-Check Donald Trump’s Tweets in Real Time
by David Z. Morris
Washington Post’s “RealDonaldContext” plugin shows commentary next to tweets.
On Friday, the Washington Post introduced a Chrome plugin that will automatically display commentary next to Donald Trump’s tweets. Spearheaded by the Post’s politics team at The Fix, the plugin provides context and fact-checking of, for example, Trump’s claims that millions of people voted illegally in the November election.
The Post has retroactively fact-checked Trump’s recent tweets, and they say they’ll continue adding commentary to new tweets in something close to real time…
We’re now in a political climate where even studiously objective fact-checkers like Snopes and Politifact get branded as “far-left” when they comment on dubious right-wing news…
http://fortune.com/2016/12/18/trump-tweet-fact-check/
41
Facebook Fact-Checker Snopes Employs Leftists Almost Exclusively–Daily Caller………
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/12/17/snopes-will-fact-checking-facebook-employs-leftists-almost-exclusively-read-httpdailycaller-com20161216snopes-facebooks-new-fact-checker-employs-leftists-almost-exclusiv/
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9 Reasons Why PolitiFact Is Unqualified to Label ‘Fake News’………
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/12/15/9-reasons-politifact-unqualified-label-fake-news/
50
seems Clinton ended up losing 4 votes (provided she doesn’t lost more votes in the Democrat-won States that haven’t called as yet). people are claiming Clinton has the most faithless electors of any presidential candidate in 100 years!
19 Dec: The Hill: Ben Kamisar: Trump seals Electoral College victory
Electoral College members across the nation voted to affirm President-elect Donald Trump’s victory on Monday, as liberal attempts to sway Republican electors to abandon Trump fizzled.
Republican electors stayed loyal to their candidate, keeping Trump well above the 270 electoral vote threshold needed to secure the nomination.
Texas’ 36 electoral votes for Trump pushed him over the edge at around 4:30 Central Time, even though two rogue electors’ defections deprived Trump of one of those votes. That gave Trump 304 total electoral votes.
The Republican-controlled Congress, a body even more unlikely to be swayed by pressure than the Electoral College, will certify the vote on Jan. 6…
Indeed, “faithless electors” caused more news on the Democratic side. A Minnesota delegate cast a vote for Sen. Bernie Sanders, only to be removed and replaced with an alternate. In Maine, an elector who had announced his intentions to vote for Sanders, only to change his vote and back Clinton in a second round of voting. And in Washington, three Democrats voted for former Secretary of State Colin Powell and one Democrat voted for Faith Spotted Eagle, a tribal activist opposed to the Dakota Access Pipeline.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/311068-trump-clinches-presidency-at-electoral-college
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DONALD TRUMP is the next POTUS
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/19/us/elections/electoral-college-results.html
101
Hillary Clinton is still in shock.
And her socialist supporters are in attack mode, in defeat malice.
70
Hillary Clinton’s Holiday Party ‘like a Wake with a Band’….
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/12/17/hillary-clintons-holiday-party-wake-band/
poor baby !
60
Meanwhile, In Northern Ireland, a major scandal is brewing over a green energy project that’s cost £400million to date and a fatal flaw is making (allegedly) a few people in the know very rich.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38307628
50
“One of the claims made by the whistleblower was that a farmer was aiming to collect about £1m over 20 years for heating an empty shed.”
LOL
30
O/Topic Tragically nine dead in Berlin in a truck attack:
https://thewest.com.au/news/world/suspected-attacker-dead-as-truck-slams-into-crowded-berlin-christmas-market-ng-b88334533z
Odd how no description of the attackers is provided, which makes it obvious. How does Merkel manage to look at herself in the mirror each morning?
70
All WindMills should be dynamited.
And the CAGW gang should be made to watch.
Let’s see if they laugh at that one as they did the destruction of the coal fired power station in SA.
101
c4 or maybe thermite……….
51
Off topic but too important not to broadcast around. And if I’m not the first to comment on it perhaps you’ll forgive me BUT…
Donald J. Trump was officially elected president of the United States of America by the Electoral College earlier today. Only 5 electors jumped ship, unfortunately the most electors in our history to renege on their promise to vote for the candidate their party elected in their state. But fortunately not nearly enough to turn the tide for Hillary. She must be livid.
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
140
I saw that – expect the leftists to keep doubling down till Jan 20. After that every decision he makes will be a mistake somehow. I shall toast with another cup of delicious Dem tears … Nov 2016 vintage.
The irony is that I am neither left- nor right-leaning. I tend to favour truth and good policy making, so let’s see how Trump does after a few months in office. If he’s a disaster, I will criticise as loud as anyone.
123
There is that little thing still outstanding, isn’t there? Now he must govern. And I think that will be a much greater challenge than getting elected.
As you said, we shall see.
10
What will be the outcome for the Electors that changed sides?
60
A couple of Texas electors ‘went rogue’ and will be tarred and feathered.
USA Today said ‘most of the “faithless” electors appeared to be Hillary Clinton defectors in Washington state, with three voting for former secretary of State Colin Powell and one for Faith Spotted Eagle, a Native American an environmental activist.’
60
As El Gordo said, more defected from HRC than The Donald:
Hilliarious! Bet that doesn’t get published widely on the MSM either.
50
They didn’t really “change sides”
Trump 2 faithless went to Ron Paul and John Kasich
See link
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/19/us/elections/electoral-college-results.html
31
David,
Unless there are legal repercussions for what they did — and I don’t know if there are any — they should be left alone. We can’t afford not to be magnanimous in victory. Because if we’re not then we will have become what Obama became when he told Republican leaders shortly after taking office in 2009, “We won!”
By that statement he became a sore winner and set the tone or maybe announced the tone he intended to have during his administration. I’m the boss and to hell with you. And we have fought to be better than that. So now I think we have to live up to that standard.
00
Thanks for the good news Roy.
The winds of change are on the move.
20
All of this craziness going on is a sad commentary on my country. We’re more divided than before Obama took office saying he wanted to unite us. We’re more ignorant of how our government works and why it works that way than I have ever seen. The fact that Bernie Sanders got so much traction was a total surprise to me. But maybe it shouldn’t have been. Perhaps I need to spend less time learning about our founders and spend more time reading the local school curriculum.
In any case though, we now have the best chance we’re going to get of changing direction and I hope Trump is up to it.
20
The following came into my inbox yesterday and I’ve never seen the left’s problem stated more accurately or succinctly. I hope you don’t mind if I post it. On the other hand I suspect you may have the same complaints.
It’s written by a Democrat according to the preamble to the message. But no matter who wrote it it’s the best indictment of the left in America and around the world that I’ve seen.
I’ve pasted it in verbatim.
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Good one.
20
What a brilliant summation of how we all feel after all the lefty nonsense. The ‘progressive’ regressives have a lot to answer for and they are so single-minded they just don’t want to know that others have different but very valid views and feelings.
20
Meanwhile the stupidity shows no sign of abating down here
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-19/nsw-changes-wind-farm-approval-process/8132618
90
I trust that the NSW Government is not going to offer subsidies to new wind turbine owners.
After all, no cost effective system or business venture should need taxpayer/consumer props.
90
There is no taxpayer money going into windmills. It is all hidden in your electricity charges by the RET laws. Carbon is not even mentioned.
130
No we know why the far-left have banned Merry Christmas…
https://s19.postimg.org/mtn19jyb7/oops.png
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Love it!
00
3rd preliminary report by the AEMO on the South Australia September 28, 2016 blackout is now out
https://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/Files/Electricity/NEM/Security_and_Reliability/Reports/Integrated-Third-Report-SA-Black-System-28-September-2016.pdf
Interestingly, detailed in table 10 – page 48, South Australia experienced 3 previous blackouts when events at the Northern plant forced the Heywood Interconnect to disconnect but these were only partial. In these incidents, the frequency drift before separation took around 2 seconds, giving the grid operators sufficient time to shed load and avoid a state wide blackout. The 0.6 second drift period of the recent blackout was too short for similar action to be taken. A glance at the system inertia at the time of the blackouts (in the same table) provides the reason why,
The report also confirms what I stated previously – overspeeding had minimal effect on the SA wind farms leading up to the blackout and the blackout was a frequency collapse.
There’s loads of thorough analysis in the report but one finding stands out to me
The question of liability of the wind farms for damages seems open from these following statements
and
Again, I would contend that the AEMO was not provided the proper information to assess the credibility for generation shortfalls of the South Australian wind farms in stormy conditions when the wind farms submitted for registration to connect to the grid. If the proper ride through behavior had been provided, then the AEMO would have forced more SA thermal generation to be online during the storms as possibility of the wind farms going offline would have been deemed credible.
Of course if the proper characteristics had been provided, the threat would have also been deemed credible in many other storms and the wind farms would have been shown to be even more of an albatross on the grid so I guess the operators took a punt on the ride through limits never been reached.
80
I forgot to mention the analysis of the SRAS (System Restart Ancillary Services) failures, The SA grid operator, ElectraNet, chose to use an untested switching procedure (different to that used in testing) for starting the Quarantine 5 generator and due to the unanticipated transformer inrush load from the different procedure, the starting generator kept being tripped.
They will probably face fines too.
60
No one seems to know why the windmills are being built? Who is investing so much money and why? What motivates everyone? Who benefits?
I asked this question of the South Australian government which has been paying hundreds of millions to keep businesses alive in the face of rapidly rising electricity costs, not just availability and reliability? The same with Victoria with half a billion dollars to keep Hazelwood going? Then electricity prices will go up?
While the Governments cry crocodile tears over thousands of jobs directly lost, exports stopped, power reliability goes out the window and we go to a super fragile and quite inadequate supply, you could be forgiven for thinking governments actually cared.
Doesn’t it worry people that this does not make any sense, that the largest and lowest cost supplier, Hazelwood with 25% of Victoria’s power is forced out of business because it is losing money? Why? Who is paying for the windmills? How can this be an energy ‘market’ when the prices have no relation to supply and the lowest cost supplier is forced out?
So while thousands of these nasty silly wind things are being built across the world, windmills are not mentioned in the SA Government budget?
It is all down to the National RET scheme, which makes it immensely profitable to supply wind energy, for which you are paid and for which you do not have to really deliver. The other suppliers have to work hard, make money and pay you from what they earn. If they actually buy from you, that is extra money to add to their costs. We have our National Carbon tax. It is killing us.
The public around the world do not see that they are paying for their own destruction. It is like China where you are executed and the family receives an invoice for the bullet used. Get rid of the RET and the windmills will stop, Hazelwood will open for business and the whole farce is over.
In South Australia in the middle of the crises, you can be assured that the windmills are not even turning. They were not being used. In the last crisis, the one which wiped out 75% of Alcoa Portland, as Jo and Tony agreed, the windmills in South Australia were only producing 6% instead of 12%. Why? Simple, they get paid double rates to produce when they feel like it, not when anyone needs it.
Stop the RET. Where is the CSIRO commenting on what is killing Australia? The “Problem Solvers” are not concerned. Not their problem. They get paid anyway, even if they solve no problems. Just like our useless windmills.
110
A less obviously confrontational change would be to remove priority market access for the renewables and force them to place day ahead contractual bids like all other generators. Even with the RET still in place, the wind farms would rapidly go broke either due to the fines for non-delivery or else the minimal output they would have to bid to minimise avoid the fines.
There is no way they could be profitable without priority access. And if the renewables proponents start blabbing on about batteries and pumped storage, then fine – let THEM finance and build the storage to support their wind farms.
130
It is not about access or confrontattion. Energy suppliers under the Federal RET are classified as ‘elegible’ and ‘inelegible’. Carbon is not mentionedin the act but
Coal and gas and other carbon based power generators are not ‘eligible’.
So for every 1Mwhour bought by an electricity retailer, they have to buy an LGCs, a pieces of paper at ‘market’ from an ‘eligible’ producer, currently at 9c/kw/hr. So you can buy your electricity at 4c/kwhr but have to pay another 9c to someone who sells you nothing but paper. Simple. It is why Hazelwood has to close. At 4c/kwhr they cannot compete with someone who gets paid regardless of whether they supply anything, more if they actually supply to someone.
If I have this wrong, please correct me.
50
So does that mean that for every kWh of reliable energy produced from, say Hazelwood, a windmill operator receives 9c for doing nothing at all? If the windmill does actually produce something, what do they receive?
Thanks for helping clarify these payments with your various posts TdeF. I think you could perhaps develop a simple statement of this kind that could be posted widely on Facebook etc to explain to the Deplorables how this works because few people, including politicians, understand it.
50
From http://www.energymatters.com.au/carbon-trading/
This is why it is in the interest of uncontracted wind farms to still pump out as much power as they can produce. The energy wholesalers MUST buy the RECs to make up their “contribution” towards the RET.
In the case of a wind farm contracted via PPA is already passing its RECs to the wholesalers so the damage is being done in the high cost of the contracted power.
70
Sorry, I also meant to add from http://www.cleanenergyregulator.gov.au/RET/Scheme-participants-and-industry/Power-stations/Large-scale-generation-certificates/Creating-and-registering-large-scale-generation-certificates
The 1 MWh of renewable power must be generated before the certificate for it can be sold.
40
The real disaster is in one simple statement
“The revenue earned by the power station for the sale of LGCs is additional to that received for the sale of the electricity generated.”
That is not in plain English the same as the electricity generated must be sold.
“The revenue earned by the power station for the sale of LGCs is additional to that received/any received for the sale of the electricity generated.”
If I was a cunning lawyer or businessman, the door is wide open to generate electricity any time I like, when conditions are optimum and sell at the peak market at maximum dollars and get paid either way. Why struggle to sell small amounts at 2am? You only sell so many certificates and you have to pay overtime rates etc. Just turn the things off. You are under no obligation to work hard. Leave that to the coal people with their statutory obligations to provide a service and they have to pay you anyway.
20
The AEMO aren’t that stupid. Anyone can look at the SCADA archive records to check when a wind farm (or any other generator) is producing power. Only hydro can take advantage of the RECs in the manner you describe (hence the Tasmanian crisis last summer).
And you obviously haven’t grasped the full implication of priority market access. There is no struggle for the wind farms to sell, ever. Market priority lets them dump on to the market any time and the wholesalers MUST BUY THEIR POWER. This is why electricity spot prices go NEGATIVE when there is a lot of wind as the RECs protect the wind farm operators from low and negative pricing.
The wholesalers take it in the back since they either have to buy the RECs or they are stuck at the PPA pricing so they never see the “benefit” of the ultra low and negative pricing. Then the charge is passed on down the line to the consumer is slugged.
Note also that the RECs lose their power to “drive the market” towards renewables as their pricing increases towards the LRET fine of ~$90 / MWh for not meeting the RET. At that point, the money goes to the government rather than renewables operators.
50
!@#$!!@$%%!@$ moderation
20
“!@#$!!@$%%!@$ moderation”
Yes Analitik.. you should always drink in moderation.
That is what you were trying to type, isn’t it?? !! 😉
41
Nope, my history shows I do little in moderation
10
David, see my answer below. If they actually sell, that money is IN ADDITION to the 9c/kwhr.
20
Turnbull and co don’t have the guts to confront the leftist on the RET as that would mean carbon reduction was blatantly off the agenda. If Abbott or similar was in the PM’s office, then there would be a chance with the current senate but Turnbull etc won’t dare table the notion.
Removal of priority market access for the renewables is a far less tangible thing for the MSM and watermelons at large to grasp plus the renewables lobby have them brainwashed into thinking intermittency isn’t a problem. Well if that’s the case, let them play by the same rules as everyone else and the Achilles Heel will be revealed (even when subsidised).
I’m not saying you are wrong. I am saying the same thing can be achieved, even with the gutless mob supposedly running the country while also demonstrating how useless renewables are EVEN IF CARBON REDUCTION IS A GOAL.
50
The public of Australia are dead against a Carbon Tax. This started in 2000. The RET Is a secret massive carbon tax directly on electricity retailers and although the word carbon is studiously not mentioned, ‘eligible’ and ‘ineligible’ are based transparently on ‘carbon’ and ‘not carbon’ and nothing else.
The public just needs to be aware of why someone who paid $2.5Bn for a power station is prepared to walk away. After all there are probably obligations to supply in there, being an old State Government generator and the State Government not only sent $500Million to help keep it going, they just increased the price of coal 300% and the Federal Government puts you at a 9c/kwhr disadvantage against people who do not have your obligation to supply. Time to pack up and sell gas.
By the way, the Act
17 What is an eligible renewable energy source?
(1) The following energy sources are eligible renewable energy sources:
(a) hydro;
(b) wave;
(c) tide;
(d) ocean;
(e) wind;
(f) solar;
(g) geothermal‑aquifer;
(h) hot dry rock;
(i) energy crops;
(j) wood waste;
(k) agricultural waste;
(l) waste from processing of agricultural products;
(m) food waste;
(n) food processing waste;
(o) bagasse;
(p) black liquor;
(q) biomass‑based components of municipal solid waste;
(r) landfill gas;
(s) sewage gas and biomass‑based components of sewage;
(t) any other energy source prescribed by the regulations.
and a very short list of ineligible poower generation which must buy certificates
(a) fossil fuels;
(b) materials or waste products derived from fossil fuels.
I have no idea why Frydenberg wants an emissions tax. It is already massive. Perhaps Turnbull wants the money to go overseas?
It does anyway, to buy more windmills and solar panels, but perhaps not through his favorite merchant bankers.
30
Even wondered why the Labor/Green governments want to increase the % to 50%? Simple. It increases the costs for coal/gas producers, making them non viable. The RET Carbon tax scales directly with this %
Section 38 https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2016C00624
38 Determination of large‑scale generation shortfall
The following method statement shows how to work out a liable entity’s large‑scale generation shortfall for a year:
Method statement
Step 1. Work out the total amount, in MWh, of electricity acquired by the liable entity during the year under relevant acquisitions.
Step 2. Subtract from the total electricity acquired the amount of the liable entity’s exemption for the year.
Step 3. Multiply the result of step 2 by the renewable power percentage for the year and round the result to the nearest MWh (rounding 0.5 upwards).
Why Andrews in Victoria increased the coal price by 300% is unexplained. Imagine if you were contracted to the government to convert coal into electricity and the same government increased your costs by 300%. Then the Federal government wanted you to pay your opposition in proportion to how much you earned multiplied by the renewable % target, now going to 50%. You would close.
30
Analitik, would what you propose be legally possible under existing contracts and legislation?
30
I’d say nothing could be done under current legislation – the RETs (small and large) are in place and the RECs are the trading mechanism used to “guide” the market towards the targets. Meanwhile, the priority market access lets the intermittent generators swan in and out of the market, disrupting the dispatchable generator operations and profitability with no onus to guarantee supply.
Both are needed for the wind and solar farms to exist and removing either would destroy them. I am saying that removal of priority market access is less contentious and therefore an easier piece of legislation to have repealed.
50
Well, if someone has his hand in my back pocket, I’m going to confront him.
But OK, I understand your point but let’s ask ourselves; What would an Australian Donald Trump do?
Yep . . he’d confront them alright.
40
True. But we have Turnbull, not Trump.
30
I mean rhetorically. I asked no such question of the SA government. Especially when the Energy minister blames BHP for not having the foresight to build their own power station, as they do in other third world countries.
50
Even after they wanted to build their own power station (and deionised water production) but were refused permision by the same State Govt.?
The result of the SA Govt. policies was obvious years ago. BHP aren’t stupid (hence their aplication and subsequent decision not to proceed with expansion of the mine), unlike Koutsantonis, so the result may well be that the State Govt. pays hundred of millions in compensation, or BHP will close Roxby Downs until a more intelligent Government is in place.
The only problem for SA voters is to find an intelligent replacement.
60
Of course I know why they are being built. To save the planet of course. How is the missing bit.
20
Which planet? Given that Mars, Pluto, and the moon Triton were warming (I’ve missed one) and that Greenies aren’t noted for ‘down to earth’ ideas, this is the question.
00
RET === THE HIDDEN CARBON (DIOXIDE) TAX ………
Get rid of it ASAP !!
51
18 Dec: UK Telegraph: Exclusive: Ministers using middle men and mobile phones to circumvent Theresa May ‘ban’ on making contact with Nigel Farage
By Christopher Hope, Chief Political Correspondent
Ministers are using middle men and mobile phones to circumvent an alleged ban by Theresa May on contacting Nigel Farage to try build relations with US president-elect Donald Trump.
The news came after Mr Farage, the former leader of the UK Independence Party claimed Cabinet ministers had been banned from talking to him by the Prime Minister.
There is speculation that Mr Farage will be made a trade adviser to Mr Trump, forcing ministers to deal with the Ukip MEP over UK/US trade talks…READ ON
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/18/exclusive-ministers-using-middle-men-mobile-phones-circumvent/
31
‘There is speculation that Mr Farage will be made a trade adviser to Mr Trump …’
Wow, just wow, and he deserves it.
51
18 Dec: UK Telegraph: Kate McCann: Electricity bills set to rise by £30 a year and power rationed amid shortage fears, MPs warn
The British Infrastructure Group, led by former Conservative minister Grant Shapps, warned lights could go out across the country next winter because there is not enough spare capacity in the system to cope with higher demand.
There is just 0.1 per cent spare electricity in the current system, a dangerously small amount of headroom in case of emergencies over the winter months, the report warned…
It cost the National Grid 800 times more than the standard price to buy additional power to cope with potential shortages in 2015. In total the company will spend £122.4 million on emergency power this winter and costs are expected to rise in 2016/17…
A failure to plan for the long term and Government demands to close coal-fired power stations to ease the impact on the environment have put the network under pressure, the MPs found…
Hospitals and factories are also being asked to switch to back up diesel generators to ease pressure on the grid at peak times, leading to concerns about pollution…ETC
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/19/electricity-bills-set-rise-30-year-power-rationed-amid-shortage/
20 Dec: Daily Mail: Chicago is colder than Mars! America shivers as cold front plunges down from the Arctic, turning Lake Michigan lighthouse into an ice sculpture and dropping temperatures in Texas by 30 degrees
Temperatures in Chicago fell to minus 6 degrees with a wind chill of minus 20 at 9am on Monday morning
The Windy City was minus 13 degrees around 4am, making it even colder than South Pole in Antarctica
Photographer Joshua Nowicki donned a full winter wetsuit to capture the St Joseph lighthouse
Said temperatures were in the teens when he braved the cold to photograph the scene on Friday and Saturday
And temperatures in Texas dropped from high 70s to the low 40s around 11pm on Saturday night
By Anneta Konstantinides For Dailymail.com and Associated Press
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4048632/Frozen-Lake-Michigan-lighthouse-transforms-stunning-ice-castle.html
21
Looks like the electoral gerrymander state of SA Labor government is worried;
MICHAEL OWEN
Labor Party mounts a Supreme Court challenge to a final redraw of the state’s electoral boundaries for the 2018 election.
STATE POLITICS64
30
Frydenberg’s Folly: Australia’s Renewable Energy Target Destined to be Capped or Scrapped
https://stopthesethings.com/2016/12/19/frydenbergs-folly-australias-renewable-energy-target-destined-to-be-capped-or-scrapped/
Here’s hoping !!!!!
60
Yes, Labor is against the new boundaries because they would have to get 50% of the vote to become the new government. That’s 3% more than they are used to getting.
10
20 Dec: Hobart Mercury: Roger Hanson: Cold spring gives Tasmanian cherry growers the pip but raspberries good to go for Christmas
One hundred Tasmanian growers produce about 6000 tonnes of cherries for market each year — that’s a third of Australia’s cherry crop.
But because of the cool, cloudy spring, the crop yield this year could be up to 10 per cent less than 2015…
“We only started picking today [Monday] because of the cold spring and delayed start of the season, compared to last year when on December 13 we did our first export,” Mr Reid said…
http://www.themercury.com.au/lifestyle/cold-spring-gives-tasmanian-cherry-growers-the-pip-but-raspberries-good-to-go-for-christmas/news-story/d68252d4076b1af000f4a870e1bf9b56
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BoM said it was a wet and windy spring, with rain above average for most of Tasmanaia, some sites having their wettest spring on record.
Temperatures were cool in the day, but mild at night. Some sites dipped well below freezing, especially early in September, with the State average maximum temperature 0.04 °C above.
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There has been a major down grading in the market (except price) in the Adelaide Hills. Rain and hail at the wrong time upset the flowering, cold weather delayed the crop. Last year was good for the farmers, this year will be poor even though retail prices have more than doubled as there are fears that the late crop will only yield about 10% yield of last years excellent result.
Last year I could buy at $7-9 a kilo. This year my local shop has none but some going $15-16 elsewhere. The retail shops run to $24-26 for cherries from NSW.
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There is a possibility for a State to save their energy industry. First they have to resume the generation and transmission/delivery companies/bodies and make them state government instrumentalities. Then they can tell the Federal Govt. to pound sand. The Federal Govt. is restricted by the constitution and cannot tax or otherwise interfere with State Govt. instrumentalities.
20
They’ve spent the money they got for ‘privatisation’.
30
Joe has a point – the coal plants in particular have very low market value due to the RET and market priority access.
If the COAG and Federal energy ministers were rational, they could buy the coal plants for a (relative) song and then repeal either the RET or market priority access for renewables. The coal plants would suddenly become profitable again and the states would have a steady income stream for little outlay.
The “If” is a wholly rhetorical question, however – most of them are Marxist watermelons and the remainder are self-serving fence sitters
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Enercon?
Please! a business that has “con” in their name wants me to think of them as trustworthy?
I laugh mightily
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read all:
19 Dec: Breitbart: James Delingpole: Trump Versus The Green Blob: The Battle That Will Define His Presidency
A common refrain among the conservatives I met in D.C. (most of them, like me, of the red-meat variety) was this:
“This is our chance. We never expected it to come our way. Now it’s here we’ve got to make damn sure we don’t blow it!”
I agree. Which is why here at Breitbart we’re going to start looking at environmental issues more closely than ever. We’re going to hold President Trump to account and help him do the right thing when—you can be sure of this—there will so many vested interests doing their darnedest to try and make him do the wrong thing.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/19/trump-versus-the-green-blob-the-battle-that-will-define-his-presidency/
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India leans more towards solar than wind.
‘There are suggestions to have hybrid solar-wind power parks as a more viable option for meeting the overall renewable energy target of 175,000 MW by 2022 as wind speeds are low in India. It finds better approval in the sector as solar energy forecasting is more dependable than wind energy.’
The Hindu
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el gordo:
Was that target per annum, per day or per the average time for a unicorn to fart?
175,000 MW is 20MWh, or 479MW per day. 4 largish diesel generators.
If they are talking 175,000 MW nominal capacity they are down to 1 largish diesel generator.
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Graeme here is the story.
http://www.thehindu.com/features/homes-and-gardens/wind-power-faces-rough-weather/article7064997.ece
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el gordo:
Thank you. So the wind farmers want to install that much (nominal capacity) per annum despite the poor wind speeds. About 35MW from a coal or gas fired station.
I wonder why? and what protection there is for the poor farmers who lose their land?
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Neither are viable,
New Delhi had the worst atmospheric pollution that I have ever experienced. The problem seemed to be very dad emissions from tens of thousands of tuktuks and diesel trucks, all with very bad emissions that would not be tolerated here in Australia, plus possible fire places although I did not see any of those.
India really does have pollution problems. Modern Coal fired power plants would go a long way to fixing them. Unfortunately they also need a radical upgrade of the whole electricity distribution system.
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Public Enemy No 1. Climate Wars Australia
Partly OT but in some ways related.
Renewable Energy has been forced apon us because of a massive con job by some leftist activist scientists. Dr Michael Mann has been identified, also Dr James Hansen and more recently Dr Gavin Schmidt.
Gavin Schmidt got his mug fingered here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3wZZLFMYM
( I suggest that you don’t listen to all the drivel that he himself propagates in the video)
But who is our Australian PE No1. I nominate Dr David Jones (Bureau of Meteorology).
His image is shown here.
http://econews.com.au/46751/bom-confirms–in-grip-of-el-nino/
Is he maniacal?
I can’t help seeing horns growing out of his head!
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these are well connected people surrounded by well resourced and fiscally motivated legals, so there is little to no chance that the story would not be spread and exploited.
You can be sure if the companies are vulnerable and that there are plaintiffs to take advantage of the vulnerability, it will “go viral”.
If this doesn’t happen…
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19 Dec: CarbonPulse: EU nations form blocking minority on stronger MSR (Market Stability Reserve), for now
Eight EU member states oppose strengthening the MSR, their respective environment ministers signalled on Monday, likely representing enough resistance to block the measure at EU Council at least until new voting rules come into force in Apr. 2017.
***putting lipstick on a zombie!
19 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: EU member states split on carbon market ambition
Spain, Italy and Eastern European countries resisted reforms to boost the flagging carbon price at a ministerial meeting on Monday
Proposed EU carbon market reforms to hike the price of pollution met resistance at a meeting of environment ministers on Monday…
Yet many member states including Spain, Italy and Croatia – plus the usual suspects in Eastern Europe – were unwilling to curb a surplus of pollution permits…
EU climate commissioner Miguel Arias Canete said Malta, which takes over the rotating council presidency from Slovakia next month, “has a big challenge” to forge consensus…
Wendel Trio, director of Climate Action Network (CAN) Europe: “With carbon prices recently slipping below four euros, governments urgently need to overhaul the broken system, instead of just ***putting lipstick on a zombie,” he said…
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/12/19/eu-member-states-split-on-carbon-market-ambition/
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GLOBALIST GET-TOGETHER:
PDF: 4 pages: European Commission: Europe’s Response to Sustainability Challenges
20 December, Brussels:
DELIVERING THE 2030 AGENDA
HIGH-LEVEL POLICY SUMMIT
PROGRAMME…READ ON
https://ec.europa.eu/epsc/sites/epsc/files/sdg-2030-programme.pdf
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At the end of 2015, Germany now has some 25,980 wind turbines installed nearly all of them land based turbines.
Germany’s geographical area of of 357,000 sq kilometres, an area that in Australian terms is less than half the area of NSW’s 800,000sq kilometres or about half again as large in area than Victoria’s 227,400 sq kilometres.
At Germany’s 357,000 sq kilometres and 25,000 wind turbines, that equates to an average a wind turbine every 3.7 kilometres distance regardless of which direction you travel and from the Alps to the Sea.
Pierre Gosselin’s NoTricksZone German to English blog has had a number of articles on wind turbines over the last year or so.
Just go to the link above and enter “Wind Turbine Infrasound” in the search box in the upper RH and it will throw up a long list of wind turbine articles, all of them highly critical to scathing about Germany”s political fixation with turbines and solar and the huge financial and societal cost that these policies are imposing on the German people and industry and now their economy.
A couple of [ anti ] wind turbine article links from the NTZ blog follow, the first being very much in line with Jo’s headline post and the immense health problems now appearing and being increasingly recognised by theGermasn and European medical profession and even filtering down into the European political psyche at long last .
German Expert: Wind Turbine Infrasound Travels 25 KM…Warns Of Health Hazards…Advises Minimum 5000 Meter Distance!
—————————–
German Medical Doctors Warn Hazards Of Wind Turbine Infrasound Are Very Real, Worse Than First Thought!
———————
German Wind Turbines “In Conflict With Health”…Physicians Recommend 3-Kilometer Minimum Distance!
“Acoustic Torture” …Austrian Chamber Of Physicians Warns Of Health Hazards From Large-Size Wind Turbines –
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20 Dec: Guardian: Adam Vaughan: European commission approves Drax biomass subsidy
A third unit at Drax’s coal power station will switch to burning wood pellets after commission’s state aid investigation approves financial support…
But the company is still looking for financial support to convert the fourth of its six units to biomass, which the government has previously said is ineligible for subsidies. “With the right conditions, we can do even more,” said (Drax CEO Dorothy) Thompson…
But green groups questioned the climate change credibility of burning wood pellets which are largely sourced from US forests.
“Big environmental question marks continue to loom over biomass and whether it is in fact renewable on this scale. Biomass has been classified indiscriminately as a ‘zero carbon’ energy source but this stems from flaws in the way the EU and US account for carbon,” said Susan Shaw, a lawyer at the NGO ClientEarth.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/19/power-station-shares-jump-ec-approves-wood-burning-subsidies-coal-switch
17 Dec: Bloomberg: Jessica Shankleman: U.K. Clean Energy Sector Shrinks After Government Subsidy Cuts
The U.K.’s renewable and low-carbon energy sector shrank by 8.7 percent last year, partly because of cuts to subsidies…
Acquisitions of capital assets fell by 39 percent to 5.3 billion pounds in 2015, which ONS said was caused by fewer large scale purchases of solar panels and wind turbines. That’s likely caused by businesses anticipating a cut to renewable energy subsidies following the election of the Conservative government in May 2015, said Jennifer Webber, director of external affairs at the trade association RenewableUK…
Full time employment in the sector fell by 2.3 percent from 2014 to 233,000, the survey showed…ETC
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-16/u-k-clean-energy-sector-shrinks-after-government-subsidy-cuts
19 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: On Wednesday, Brazilian lawmakers are due to vote on a bill the environment minister Jose Sarney Filho said would unleash “environmental civil war” and undermine climate goals.
11
update:
19 Dec: Omaha World-Herald: Paul Hammel: Sand Hills wind farm proposal rejected by county board, but developer says idea isn’t dead
LINCOLN — A controversial proposal for a wind farm in Nebraska’s scenic Sand Hills was shot down by the Cherry County Board on Monday.
But a developer of the project said there’s a chance his group will reapply to erect a smaller number of wind towers in an area south of Nebraska Highway 20 near Kilgore.
“We still think it’s a viable project. There were some technicalities that were the reason” it was rejected, said Eric Johnson, vice president of Bluestem Sandhills…
“I need nothing else for Christmas,” said Carolyn Semin of rural Kilgore, who organized opponents of the project and who lives within 2 miles of one of the turbine sites…
At Monday’s meeting, Bluestem Sandhills discussed the possibility of reducing the number of wind towers from 30 to 17 by employing new, larger turbines…
He said the change then prompted discussion that the project had materially changed and that a new, amended proposal for a county permit would need to be submitted…
http://www.omaha.com/news/nebraska/sand-hills-wind-farm-proposal-rejected-by-county-board-but/article_a0580738-c64b-11e6-af6b-e3a2cec75049.html
11
repeated on ABC this morning – introduced as program on “acoustic jurisprudence”.
ABC right away concerned about “regulations”.
did they include wind turbines in the discussion? nah.
AUDIO/TRANSCRIPT: 21 Dec: ABC The Law Report: Using sound as crowd control
From the bombastic sound cannon, the LRAD, to using noise at a pitch that’s specific to the target…
***So what are the regulations around using noise to control people?
First broadcast 17 May 2016
TRANSCRIPT: Rachel Carbonell: Today we’re talking about acoustic jurisprudence. And I’m not talking about noisy neighbours and loud music venues (OR WIND TURBINES), but using sound to control and even hurt people…
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lawreport/sound-as-control/8005450
did a search for ABC Law Report + Wind Turbines – got nothing.
however, ABC have had:
23 Jul: ABC The Science Show: Expectation influences reporting of adverse health effects from wind farms
More than 60 studies have investigated whether links exist between human health and wind farms. The evidence does not support ***a direct link*** between reports of adverse health effects and exposure to sound from wind farms…
May 2015: ABC The Science Show: Can wind farms cause sickness?
Reports about sickness from wind farms began emerging in Australia in 2009 ***after*** an American doctor Nina Pierpont came up with the name, Wind Turbine Syndrome. She spoke to people like her who were against wind farms. She ignored numerous accepted methods which provide reliability for medical studies. In Australia, studies into the effects of wind farms have found no physical effect on people living nearby. But being anxious and annoyed over wind farms can produce sickness…
2013: ABC The World Today: Academic Simon Chapman finds no evidence that wind turbines cause vibroacoustic disease
Professor Chapman says the claim that wind turbines cause the disease is based on a single case study of a 12-year-old boy with memory and attention problems at school…
Professor Chapman says the connection between wind turbines and the disease has gone viral online, but the original study has received ***virtually no*** scientific recognition…
2014: ABC Rural: Wind farm report blows away health claims
last, but not least, it’s worth recalling the time ABC Wind Turbine expert, Paul Barry, got into the act:
Feb 2015: Australian: Legal move threatened over Media Watch report
ACOUSTIC expert Steven Cooper is considering launching legal action against the ABC’s Media Watch program for its portrayal of him and his research on the effect of the Pacific Hydro wind turbines on local residents.
On the February 16 edition of Media Watch host Paul Barry dished out a stinging criticism of Mr Cooper’s seven-month study conducted at Cape Bridgewater in southwest Victoria — and the reporting of it by The Australian’s environment editor Graham Lloyd and Network Seven’s Today Tonight.
However, in damning the report, the Media Watch team hand-picked a group of pro-turbine “experts” — with no real expertise in the field — ignored submissions from genuine acoustic experts, misrepresented Mr Cooper, selectively and incorrectly quoted the National Health and Medical Research Council, ignored balancing quotes in the newspaper reports and made a number of factual mistakes…WORTH READING ALL
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/broadcast/legal-move-threatened-over-media-watch-report/news-story/c80ba80b16f01e72dda9891f5e6e821b
behind Australian paywall, so posting this followup:
March 2015: Windwatch: from The Australian: Watchdog a green-Left lapdog
As we wrote yesterday, Flint Duxfield, the Media Watch researcher who worked on a program last month lampooning a wind turbine study conducted by an acoustics expert, was previously a paid publicist for AidWatch.
That anti-development, anti-mining and anti-free trade organisation was co-founded by Lee Rhiannon, now a Greens senator…
Nor did Media Watch disclose that the key “expert’’ it quoted in its program, Sydney University professor of public health Simon Chapman, had his own conflict of interest. Professor Chapman has worked closely with the wind farm industry and castigated its opponents as “anti-wind farm wing nuts”…
Media Watch says it keeps “an eye on those who try to manipulate the media’’. That’s why its staff should leave their activist baggage at the door.
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2015/03/20/watchdog-a-green-left-lapdog/
Mar 2015: Quadrant: Roger Franklin: A Media Watch Staffer’s Abbreviated CV
Media Watch has long had a soft spot for green causes, with former host Jonathan Holmes once going so far as to lament that commercial radio stations were much too fond of quoting climate sceptics and that “the problem is, the regulator won’t or can’t enforce the Code unless someone complains it’s being flouted.” By “the regulator” Holmes meant that Orwellian-sounding body, the Australian Communications & Media Authority…
…out of the blue, Quadrant Online was informed by an anonymous someone — an informant who claims to be an ABC insider, no less — that the researcher who worked on the Media Watch piece, Flint Duxfield, had enjoyed a previous life as a paid employee with a left organisation, AidWatch, which also pursues an active sideline in climate-change hysteria…
Should a researcher who once began an article with the assertion “Our addiction to fossil fuels has pushed us beyond mere ‘anthropogenic interference’ with the climate and we are now on the brink of a climatic catastrophe” have recused himself from involvement in preparing the Media Watch item?…READ ALL
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2015/03/media-watch-wind-beatup/
either replace all the ABC CAGW zealots, or shut the place down (tho getting rid of the CAGW zealots would probably achieve the latter anyway).
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OT. Interesting post over at WUWT
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/21/homogenization-of-temperature-data-by-the-bureau-of-meteorology/
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-22/snowstorm-hits-sahara-desert-for-first-time-in-nearly-40-years/8141694
00
Is anyone paying attention to what Pat is posting?
Most seem to be intent on defending their ignorance, (ignoring that in front of your nose ‘smelling’, or ignoring that in front of your eyes, ‘observing’)..
Is ignorance the difference between GOD and “made in the image of GOD?” Your comments please!
10
NO!
10
I wish people would stop using the term noise in relation to turbines.
Certainly there is some noise but that is not the major problem.
The big issue is pressure pulsing which overrides central nervous system and causes Untold damage to real human beings.
Governments cunningly use the term noise to create confusion and keep the hidden taxes flowing.
KK
01
Indeed! It is always the sloppy use of ‘language’ that allow\encourage the ‘scammers’ at the State Fair, that promote you to ‘choose to buy the set of knives that never get dull’, rather than have your significant other really slap you up the side of your head!
All the best! -will-
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PRESS RELEASE 3rd January 2017
High Court order for families forced from homes due to noisy wind turbines. http://us13.campaign-archive1.com/?u=e79075f1d60a31a82b6dce3f1&id=ae3e239824
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