The cost of Going Green, The Australian, Cover, September 1, 2017.
The Australian calculates the total bill will be in the order of $60b for green electricity.
It’s not like we could have done something better with that.
Read it all (if you can), then write to your MP and Senator. Ask why — if they are serious about helping reduce CO2 — we don’t have a USC coal plant like so many other countries, and why we don’t have nuclear power. Then ask why, if they are concerned about the poor, about health, about education, we are wasting $60b dollars to try to change the weather in 2100 that we could be spending on these critical areas right now?
Taxpayers hit with a $60bn power bill
The Australian, Adam Creighton
Taxpayers will have paid more than $60 billion through federal renewable energy subsidies by 2030, about twice what the crumbling car industry received over 15 years and enough to build about 10 large nuclear reactors.
The government’s large and small-scale renewable energy targets, which will compel energy retailers to buy 33 terawatt hours of wind, solar and hydro energy by 2030, will deliver about $45bn of subsidies to renewable energy producers over 20 years, according to analysis by The Australian.
If it’s improving and getting cheap, whatever you do, don’t buy it yet:
It’s hard to argue with ACIL Allen Consulting chief executive Paul Hyslop:
“Solar costs have probably fallen 75 to 80 per cent in the last six or seven years,” Mr Hyslop told the energy and environment committee. “If we had not done anything seven years ago and today we then did all those things, we could have … two to three times as much solar (energy generation) in roofs for the same amount of investment over that period.
“If you think that the cost of renewables and low-emission technology is falling rapidly, absolutely put it off for as long as possible.”
Australia — 30% of the worlds uranium reserves but no nuclear power:
Economist Geoffrey Carmody, a founder of Deloitte Access Economics:
“If we sweep nuclear energy off the table in favour of renewables, achieving these three conflicting objectives with one instrument — renewable energy — is numerical nonsense,” Mr Carmody said.
Australia is the only G20 country to have banned nuclear power.
Read it all….
PS: USC = Ultra super critical coal. Hot burning generators are so much more efficient. They cut emissions but without the pain of intermittent unreliable generators. Japan, China, India have lots of them.
If we started planning one now we might catch up in the advanced technology stakes with Indonesia.
The Australian Editorial: A fresh light on energy price and supply woes
Malcolm Turnbull cannot afford to fiddle around any longer before tackling Australia’s energy crisis. Handled well, the issue would be an election winner for the Coalition…
That [the $60b] is twice what our crumbling car industry received in the 15 years to 2012. It would build 10 large nuclear reactors, an option long dismissed by politicians as too expensive. Present policies provide an exorbitant taxpayer-funded windfall for renewable energy producers for little if any public benefit. However inefficient, car industry subsidies protected about 40,000 jobs. By comparison, 39 renewable energy projects under construction or being completed this year have created 4400 jobs, according to the Clean Energy Council.
We allowed a free market in gas, but didn’t allow one in coal generation.
If we had true free markets, we wouldn’t worry about high gas prices. We’d just profit from the high priced gas sales, and get cheap electricity from coal. We wouldn’t need so much gas if we didn’t have so many intermittent wind generators.
Turnbull seizes on admission Labor was warned on gas prices
Malcolm Turnbull has seized on energy spokesman Mark Butler’s admission that Labor was warned that customers would be hit with higher energy prices from the gas exports it authorised in government five years ago, blaming the Gillard government for the spike in gas prices which has seen energy bills rise dramatically.
Mr Turnbull said the Gillard government had made a “reckless” decision in allowing gas to be exported from the east coast of Australia without putting in any protection for Australian families, households and businesses.
The coalition is taking the wrong tack. Real free markets produce better cheaper outcomes. The problem is the regulations in the electricity market.
h/t Pat
Links: Front page of The Australian. The Australian digital print editions. (Probably paywalled).
It would appear Ma Nature will be having the last laugh – I can hear her chuckling already – as yet another wintry, sub-zero blizzard eyes up the Australian Alps next Monday/Tuesday with over 1/2 a metre of CO₂ powder on the way, while here in NZ today a few ski areas were closed due to cold wintry conditions, limited visibility and blowing snow, also known as a blizzard. And those two Delusionist Ships of Fools up in the Arctic? They’ve turned-tail at 80˚ 10″ North due to – oops! – freezing conditions and too much sea ice. Imagine that…
352
No, CH9 News weatherman just said this is another record year of hottest winter, driven up by northern heat, acknowledging some cold periods elsewhere.
lol
110
You have to listen closely to the fine print when they include it , the top of oz is supposedly warmest evvvaaahhh but the south is freezing and on track for Coolest evvvaaahhh .
Given the amount of fiddling that BOM do it’s a wonder anyone believes the warmer claim , I can however confirm more frost days in my area and more days with having to run a heater .
200
Afflicted as I am, with reasonableness, I admit it. Here at seventeen and a bit degrees latitude it has been the warmest winter in my 12 years experience.
It is the second year my breadfruit tree hasn’t lost all its leaves, and that happens if the temperature gets down to about 8 – 10 degrees.
Ask me, am I complaining? (No, on reflection, since it’s not in my nature to complain, except about cold weather, warming catastrophists, taxes, local government….)
60
A couple of weeks ago the same CH9 weather man pointed to the midcoast NSW region and 30C “hot” weather and then to northern Australia where it was the same and referred to “baking hot”.
30
They try to say this is the hottest year ever here too. Unfortunately, I can remember hotter days from as long ago as 1962. What I can’t seem to remember is the key to getting them to have a sense of balance and equilibrium about the weather. In ’62 they were just hot days. They’re still just hot days but not to the zealots. To them they prove the Earth is doomed along with every living thing unless…
And of course, renewable energy is the answer as it always is.
But I must confess that it looks like solar panels on my roof could be to my advantage in the long run and I’m beginning to look into it. If they really want to buy power I can deliver to the grid and it’s to my advantage, I’m not against taking their money. But it has to be a deal where I don’t front too much money because if I have to do that and then need to move, I’ve lost my advantage.
40
That’s funny. In 1922 Arctic expeditions complained there was hardly any ice to be found south of 81 degrees 29 minutes.
You’d think those two Ships of Fools in 2017 would be fairly whizzing to the pole with the crew wearing only their summer togs.
There again, Mawson found sailing into Commonwealth Bay in 1912 a lot easier than did biochar salesman Chris Turney more than a century later. Heritage Expeditions explains: “Attempts were made to reach Mawson’s Hut in the summer of 2015/16 and again in the summer 2016/17 and although the ice conditions weren’t ideal with the right conditions a landing might have been possible but unfortunately they weren’t lucky.”
Maybe we should be nice and refer to Ships of Unlucky People with All New Tech and Mod Cons. Or Ships of Unluckies, for short. And any hard white floating stuff can be referred to as “bad luck”. And lots of hard white floating stuff can be referred to as “lots of bad luck”.
120
Is it a new (cold) record? And the BoM haven’t ‘disappeared’ it yet? Just checked the temp for Thredbo Top Station: at 7.30 am Sunday it was -22.9˚C wind chill with a 141 km/h max wind gust (I saved a screenshot in case it slips away into that nasty memory hole). Forecast to snow until Friday in the mountains – now over 1 metre – accompanied by thunder and hail and very cold temps. Next stop, New Zealand! But never fear: the media here will simply report Darwin as being “hot” then move onto some fluffy animal story.
40
Meanwhile…back at the ranch…..
DIY Powerwall….
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-01/aussie-blokes-diy-tesla-powerwall-made-from-scrap/8863406
Quote of the week :
“But Mr Matthews said the bigger global energy picture did not occur to him while building his home project.
“I never once considered the environment,” he said.”
Ha Ha 🙂
101
Looks like he has mounted all those batteries on wood panels – don’t think that’s a good idea. Also the Tesla battery packs use fusible links to prevent issues with a single cell taking out the battery pack, and I doubt that this homemade array employs any such safety measures. Hope he has good home insurance.
90
Is the area where he lives, prone to having thunderstorms, from time to time?
10
I’m almost reluctant to keep mentioning this, about this Base Load thing I’m still doing, but it’s been so insightful for me, and shown me just how reliant all of Australia is on its aging coal fired power fleet. There’s still no talk of replacing them, and trust me, that WILL end up happening, and all they are doing now is closing them down, and in the case of SouthAus, blowing them up, in every case pandering to those green preferences both sides need.
While at that 4AM point in time, coal fired power is (consistently, like you know, every day) supplying 80% plus of that power consumption, what is interesting to see is the total for ALL fossil fuelled plants, when you add on those Natural Gas fired plants.
When you do that, at that same point in time (minimum Base Load) then fossil fuels are consistently generating 90% plus of all power.
There were even two and a half days this week when dear old SouthAus was 95% plus supplied from fossil fuelled plants, when you add in the power supplied by Victorian plants in the brown coal fields there.
When the realisation of that reliance on coal fired power is finally shown, reported, and acknowledged, then watch plans for new coal fired power come into being. When that does happen, watch how The Australian Greens become nonentities, both as a political party, and then as people.
While people still mention Nuclear power, I fully believe that is at least 20 years away still, before we have one of them. We’ll see new USC coal fired plants long before they come in, and with all that coal, we could realistically just stay with coal, because when that realisation finally sinks in, this whole CO2 emissions thing will just fade right away.
You may wonder why I’m so confident, and my response always, always goes back to Base Load. Take that away, and the three major Capital Cities become dead zones, full stop.
Wind and solar will NEVER be able to supply the power needed to run those three cities alone, let alone the rest of Australia. people will be baying for blood if that is ever allowed to happen. There’ll be no politicians looking for a camera then, they’ll all be looking for somewhere to hide, literally.
Tony.
512
Tony, see my comment at #9 – we are exporting too much coal from NSW!
60
Now #10!
20
G’day Tony,
Last night I happened to watch a bit of ABC’s 7:30 report on which Scott Morrison was interviewed. To my surprise, in one of his responses he mentioned base load power(!!!).
Perhaps they’re listening…
Cheers,
Dave B
70
Does he actually know what baseload power is , I’m not sure any politician does .
90
RR
Isn’t that something they do in baseball? /s in case
40
On ABC 7.30 a few days ago the PM, trying to promote his “new” Snowy Mountains Hydro extension of pumping water that the electricity will come from “excess from wind turbines” and later in the same interview said “when the wind doesn’t blow or the sun doesn’t shine” the hydro power stations stored water supply will be needed.
We all know that politicians can explain why an Elephant is a Frog.
30
Oh dear, now it’s Malcolm Turnbull ‘open mouth change feet’:
So, let’s check that out then, shall we.
Needless to say this Snowy 2.0, contrary to what some are saying that this is somehow ….. NEW power, it isn’t because that water has to have the same amount of electricity it generates, well, more really, to pump that water back up the hill again. In nearly every case everywhere else, this pumped storage electricity is sold at peak power times to take advantage of the cost increase at that peak time, so they can recoup their money. They still have to buy the power to pump the water back up the hill, so they do that when it is cheapest, always after Midnight and before the morning peak begins at around 4 to 5 AM.
So, he plans to use, umm, excess wind does he.
NSW total nameplate for wind – 650MW, so not enough excess there to cover the 2200MW required to pump the water up hill again.
So let’s get that excess from Victoria, via the Interconnectors, two of them, in total, 400MW, and if all that is excess wind, then that’s from Victoria’s wind Nameplate of 1730 (average, with CF is 520MW, but only 400MW can go through both Interconnectors)
So, we have just on 1050MW, utilising ALL 100% (yeah right) of NSW wind and Vic wind via interconnector, so just on half of what is actually required then.
Nup, they’ll be utilising coal fired power, still the cheapest they can get to pump the water back up the hill.
Amazing how the facts when spouted by a politician don’t quite stack up to the actual reality, eh!
Tony.
160
Thanks Tony, I don’t know what we would do without your expert comments. You are like the light at the end of the tunnel and it’s getting closer all the time. Ten years ago there was no light at all. Keep it up.
20
Feasibility study by Peter Lang back in 2010 with good comments from experts who have worked in the field
https://bravenewclimate.com/2010/04/05/pumped-hydro-system-cost/
It’s not cost effective, there are water column inertia issues AND you need to generate the electricity in a dispatchable manner when pumping
00
But did he say what he thinks base-load power is?
As with the term ‘climate change’, this is only short-hand for CAGW or man-made climate change and nothing else, including natural forces.
Definitions matter.
In my ‘conversations’ with others, I always have to ask them to define the terms they are using, otherwise you can find yourself talking about completely different things.
60
Turnbull also mentioned baseload power and seemed to understand it.
30
If it will lower his polling….. yes.. he will pretend to understand it.
I am totally convinced that his only aim is to see JUST HOW LOW he can get his poll figures.
92
Limbo politics?
40
This is Malcolm’s reply to Leigh on 7.30 ABC
‘The critical thing to remember is that if you bring in intermittent renewables like wind and solar, that obviously – wind doesn’t blow all the time, sun doesn’t shine all the time, you understand the problem – if you bring them in and you replace baseload power that generates all the time, you run the risk that you end up with inadequate baseload power, massive spikes in energy prices, huge reliance on gas which is already too expensive, although we’re bringing that price down.’
70
Then he should show some actual LEADERSHIP and immediately authorise the installation of high efficiency coal units in the Hunter, in Victoria to replace Hazelwood, and in Qld.
If authorised with a level playing field, and the RET and its idiotic rules abolished, someone would build them.
The BIG problem is that Turnbull is ALL MOUTH, and doesn’t have the guts to ever do anything actually worthwhile for Australia.
172
If Tony Abbott took back the reins before Xmas, what would he do?
32
No idea what TA would do.
Has he figured out that bowing to the MSM and the far-left agenda is counter-productive?
Has he grown a backbone. !?
Unfortunately, somehow Turnbull MUST be gotten rid of first…. and ASAP !!!
91
It will have to be Peter Dutton, the punters have him next in line.
On climate change Dutton appears to be a clean skin and at the moment he’s the ‘darling of the right’.
21
“the punters have him next in line.”
If Dutton is next in line with “the punters”….
…..then he is ABSOLUTELY the wrong person to be next in line.
51
Peter Dutton is favourite to win the big seat, half a head in front of Julie Bishop, with Tony Abbott sitting comfortably in third.
They are followed home by Scott Morrison, Greg Hunt, Josh Frydenbeg and Christopher Pyne at 26/1.
10
TA “backbone”?
You are aware of course that he was rolled as leader because he did not have the supporter numbers among the Liberal Party MPs and was undermined by his Liberal Deputy and some Cabinet Ministers who had been blocking many of his proposals, e.g. independent audit into the BoM, due diligence.
40
Perhaps he things there are golden handshakes in Politics, like in business. Get paid millions of dollars to leave, after totally screwing things up!
20
thinks, not things!
10
Are you sure he didn’t say “base load polls”?
10
Tony
Back in the day Paul Keating used to talk of “pulling the levers of the economy”
The cartoon I never saw would have had the Keating beak of the cartoonists of the time peering in the door of a room full of levers in which a very sweaty “treasurer-of- this-week” was working out and saying “Paul, it would help if these levers had labels to say what they do”.
The electricity situation seems like more of the same.
60
I had talks with the guys at MacGen before its was gobbled up by AGL and that saboteur Vessy in 2009. They reckoned the alarmism/renewable energy lies and scam would be 10 years destroying Australia. I thought at the time that was pessimistic but they were right. Personally I think some of the people who have promulgated this stuff should face criminal charges but perfect world and all that. It’s a case of the inmates running the asylum and I’m not sure there are enough sane people to restore order.
220
I suspect Tony, that the non-core engineering employees of electrical retailers, distributors and generators don’t have any idea about how their stuff works.
My newest bill, which includes a doubling of supply charges, has a page that attempts to entertain (I won’t use the term “explain”) how important they all are. I scanned the relevant page and placed it on my blog with scant comment.
I suspect that Joanne, as a professional science communicator, will also not be pleased. It’s clearly an exercise of marketing and political spin. As a consequence it’s full of descriptions so bad, that they are not even wrong.
Synergy seems to think that it makes energy. Science fail!
It goes down-hill from there with no fewer than 5 misrepresentations and misdirections in the first paragraph.
But what can one expect from a retailer the routinely “can’t do arithmetic” on their invoices?
70
Bernd, I understand you’re upset about your bill but you really can’t expect non-engineering employees of a power utility to understand the first thing about thermodynamics, never mind the first law. OK supplies May have been a better word to use but produces is perfectly acceptable in communicating that they do about 60% of the supply.
They don’t claim to make the energy.
Neither do they really say at all where the money goes though as they claim to nor address why it has suddenly shot up. Just another platitude to let them pretend they’ve addressed consumers concerns.
11
And that will mean some very pi$$ed off people who may take to the streets with pitch forks,lit torch’s,tar and feathers and piano wire looking for those responsible.
00
It should be a warning for *any* political party who doesnt trash the RET and lower power costs – they will be thoroughly routed and sent into the political wilderness at the enxt election.
I still think do an Iceland on the 2 main partis – massive informal vote is the best option – completely snooker the globalists so both their tame one-trick ponies ( Labor and Libs ) are both electorally hamstrung and out of jobs…..
Who needs Labor and Libs? ( note: I’m not implying weird finge parties are preferred ) – sure it will be a bit rough to strat with, but we’d get there.
Its a bit like “anyone but Hillary…”
61
Original Steve:
Voting informal will do nothing to change politicians behaviour. In fact it could make it worse, as the rusted on and the disinterested voters put them back into parliament. Please NOTE it is the majority of completed votes, informal ones don’t count, so the reelected nongs will dream up new ways of spending to buy back the votes of the disinterested informal voters.
What makes them nervous is having to wait days, maybe weeks to see if they get back or not. So DO NOT vote for the guilty ones. Go for the minor party closest to your thoughts or an independent. I am sure you will trace where your preferences will go.
Yes, it may take longer to vote, especially for the Senate but nothing annoys the pollies more than seeing a mess of minor party votes before the matter is settled. They don’t know for sure where the bouncing ball will stop.
70
Hey, whatever it takes….democracy is a double edged sword…
Ironically, it could be the nastiness of the NWO crowd that will badly backfire on them as voters rediscover the power thay have to sling the lib/lab sock puppets out of parliament and reclaim Oz for the people.
50
Well,we the people made Kellogg’s,Target and ESPN sit up and take notice and they are paying BIG TIME for their actions.And yes WE the people of Australia contributed.
00
Some time ago I gave links to all the political parties (save Labor) in South Australia, giving details of their policies (or lack of same) regarding electricity generation. They show that voters in this benighted state have no options . . . nil . . . nada. Any talk of political warnings (OriginalSteve) or advice to find “the minor party closest to your thoughts ” (Graeme No. 3) is futile.
The public believes that expansion of renewables makes them cheaper. The only question is whether government will really shut down any more coal-fired plants. And public opinion may, against all evidence and logic, press for that end—successfully.
60
If the east coast gets a few warm days during summer, we are likely to find out the consequences of all this “unreliable” rubbish.
72
C. Paul Barriera:
You are assuming that politicians, apart from the extremes, actually have beliefs. Their only belief is in their own importance and the necessity to be re-elected. In persuit of this they will say anything which reinforces the gullibles belief that they are on their side. Hence the apparent occasional espousal of both sides of an argument. Did I say ‘occasional’? I blame the spell checker.
The point is that later this month or early next month the public is going to get their new much higher bills. To those who haven’t been paying attention to the debate (approx. 70% of the population) this will come as a very unpleasant shock. Public attitudes will reverse very, very quickly. Waffle about the importance of abiding by the Paris Accord at the cost of pain in balancing the voter’s budget, fear for their jobs etc. are not going to win votes. Both The Conservatives and One Nation are ready to exploit this and have policies already in place.
Since so many of our politicians live in a place isolated from the real world (Canberra) they may not realise that things have changed by the time of the next election. Already 5-10% don’t vote, and 25-30% don’t vote for the 2 major parties. The Greens vote is dropping because the newer parties on the right of centre enable voters to express dissatisfaction elsewhere. The “tipping point” is when the vote for the major parties drops below 50% because no preference deals can then get their candidates elected. The result will be a major shock to their complacency. They may even change their tune, although I doubt it.
40
As for the bills they’ve already escalated; any new increases (after 1 July) simply build on what’s gone before—and been digested, more or less (ours doubled over the course of twelve months). School fees are affecting household budgets significantly with a goodly number of parents taking their offspring out of private schools. Other discretionary spending will, if it hasn’t already, receive similar scrutiny.
Politicians and beliefs: long an interesting matter of tension. They do exist but are now pretty thin and largely incapable of articulation. That is the primary issue with dissent from any sort or degree of RET. Most, even if they wanted to, cannot articulate an argument let alone in a form that will prove attractive to an increasingly lazy and ill-educated electorate (the education system [sic] in South Australia is now self-replicating in its ignorance, linguistic ineptitude and contempt for learning). Going to minor parties, notably Nick Xenophon’s mob, is only to deepen the problems of the state. Few will vote informally: something about participation and obligation has survived from the past. Media universally laud renewable energy. The public may some time in the future begin to doubt it’s merits, by which time Victoria will have shut down at least one more coal-fired power plant. And there will be no way back unless the federal government builds replacements. You know the likelihood of that as well as I do.
We could add other issues to the electoral question. First, private debt, especially domestic mortgages, now exceeding 100 per cent. of GDP. This is complicated in a state in which property speculation was the fundamental reason for its existence in 1836. a collapse in house prices, long overdue, may have, ahem, interesting but unpredictable consequences.
Secondly, health (and an astonishingly ugly, hugely expensive and likely inoperative hospital) has an inflation rate that disqualifies many choices until recently affordable. Education already mentioned: again hugely expensive and (by traditional standards) ineffective. Employment: deteriorating without the possibility of improvement. In at least one rural district barter has replaced familiar forms of economic relations. And so it goes, on and on.
Any political reaction will be just that. And likely destructive of institutions that should have done better over the past half-century. Government has the upper hand in language and will win the propaganda battles. As you know, even a (very unlikely) change of government to the Liberals will make for no change in the priorities. Perhaps one of Xenophon’s team will be speaker with the balance of power: ergo no changes.
Politically significant change will emerge, if it can, from some other aspect of life; something quite unexpected at this point. What that will be I have no idea. Otherwise stasis, fortified by the prohibition of questioning, is the new order.
30
“Going to minor parties, notably Nick Xenophon’s mob, is only to deepen the problems of the state.”
Good…let it all collapse, let chaos reign ( briefly). As parents know, sometimes we need to let the kiddies hurt themselves to learn not to do it again.
Sad to say, sometimes you need a train wreck to clear the mess…
20
OriginalSteve: have you any examples of “clear[ing] the mess” to offer?
00
Graeme a ‘massive informal vote’ against the pseudo Marxist consortium maybe the only option we have.
We are talking about a mass movement, an informal revolution.
‘CO2 does not cause global warming – a pox on all your houses’.
21
An informal vote will not stop the morons who vote for the Lib Labor or Greens,so that will not change anything.Voting Independent or minor parties will make sure YOUR vote IS counted.
00
The informal vote…with nice little slogans adorned…is the protest vote against the incumbent member representing the party that, normally, receives your vote. You cannot bring yourself to vote for any of the filth aligned against. So, take votes away from incumbent. The closer the vote, the more the sweating and gnashing of teeth.
31
Informal is a waste of your vote, far better to select a candidate (not Union Labor, Green or LNP rebels) that is a patriot and clearly expresses objectives aimed at tackling the problems and socialism.
20
One Nation is only registered to contest elections in Queensland and Western Australia.
Cory’s ACP might get something going, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
10
Former Prime Minister John Howard recently pointed out that voter support for the major parties has slipped from the traditional 80 per cent down to 60 per cent at present, so 40 per cent will not vote for them.
In 2010 the Gillard led Labor Government was defeated by the Abbott led Coalition Opposition and forced into a minority alliance (outside partners) to form a new government.
The next election could well result in another 2010 style hung parliament.
A coalition of the willing – LNP good guys with smaller parties joining them could possibly have the numbers to form the next government, and hopefully state clearly their intention to overturn the problems and issues we now face.
20
‘A coalition of the willing – LNP good guys with smaller parties ….’
Cannot see that happening, they also have mortgages and nobody has the bottle to become a fringe dweller.
11
Don’t forget that Labor raised the RET from the original Howard Coalition 2 per cent trial that Howard recently said should never have been raised. It was an incentive for investors to enter the electricity supply market and trial alternative energy systems.
In 2015 Prime Minister Abbott tried hard to gain Senate support for the RET and subsidies to be abolished, repealed. The hostile Labor Green led Senate opposition said no. But they did agree to cap the RET.
And since Shorten Labor are saying they will raise the RET to 50 per cent.
30
Mike R
Well the eventuall outcome of this misdirection of these massive sums of money subsidies to “renewables “( apart from lost opportunity cost ie in building infrastructure,and funding our health and education systems) will lead to a recession “when “is the operative word. Government debt is increasing.Our low interest rate environment has created inflated housing prices and massive house hold debt in mortgages.The net effect has been to drive up energy prices causing
“energy” poverty for many households and overhead costs for small businesses. Our manufacturing base in Australia will be (and is now)being driven off shore.
So given all these “clear and parent dangers ” it will only be a matter of time before such a recession arrives , the only question is how deep it will become in terms of unemployment
and household bankruptcy however this time with increasing government debt and reduced tax
receipts there will be little or no room to stimulate a recovery fiscally due to the structural economic damage that has been done to our economy.
81
The more we can educate the public on how the RET is strangling Australia, the bigger the electoral bloodbath will be…..but sometimes when things are rotten to the core, radical surgery is the best option….
The globalist figure Australians are too dumb to wake up – well they are – and fast due to power bills.
Once the RET and renewables are identified as the culprit and both parties are equally to blame, those parties will disappear faster than an old nokia phone at a hipster party….
111
It frustrates me when people I speak too show little or no interest, despite being angry and frustrated about high electricity pricing.
And their eyes glaze over when I explain that our private bills is the tip of the iceberg, that every electricity consumer from businesses to governments includes the cost of electricity in what we pay for goods and services. And their suppliers from bottom to top of the supply chains add electricity cost and a profit margin if not government. But even government owned private companies add profit. And all add 10% GST at the retail level where consumers cannot claim it back.
The hidden impact on the cost of living is substantial and I am surprised that it is not yet pushing inflation much higher. There are obviously some offsetting factors masking the electricity based increases.
However, if the electricity price was not artificially high maybe there would now be deflation, or near zero inflation?
Our economy (varying state by state) is not strong and has not been since the Howard Coalition years ended November 2007.
In fact, in 2007 Australia was 8th of 38 OECD member countries for cost of living, improved from 13th when Keating Labor left office in 1996. But as of 2015 after Rudd Labor lost government in September 2013 our OECD position was 12th.
10
Yes, MR,
I fear that you have a plausible scenario. I also wonder if we are going to see violence by riots, but don’ T like to float ideas like that. I think it is going to get ugly in the next 18 months. Geoff
30
I disagree on a recession, Beijing is planning to take over the country with infrastructure builds. Keynes knew what he was talking about.
00
What do you call something that is obvious to logical thinkers, center-right politicians (if you have any) and the educated and attention paying citizens?
What do you call voters who will vote for narrow self-interest and not for the future of their country?
What do you call leftist voters and Greenies who vote contrary to logic and common sense time after time?
I don’t know, but you have them in Australia.
120
And we have them in the US and we call them Democrats and their violent legions of paid protestors and thugs.
140
I hope they dont try anything similar here…Australians had the reputation for using bayonets in jungle warfare in WW2….
50
it really is time to make a stand. some of the electricity price increases for homes and businesses being reported on talk show radio are truly outrageous. so much faux outrage over meaningless and trivial matters, yet none over this destruction of our energy grid?
from cached version:
30 Aug: BusinessGreen: Michael Holder: Are home solar-battery storage systems a worthwhile investment?
Solarcentury refutes findings of new scientific study suggesting home battery storage systems teamed with solar PV are not economically viable
Home battery storage systems complementing residential solar arrays could actually end up leaving residents financially worse off, if the results of a new scientific study are to be believed.
Carried out by Cenex alongside researchers from Warwick and Birmingham universities, the study concluded it was “not economically viable” to install a new PV-battery system in an average home, as residents could lose up to £400 during the first year after their investment due to the cost of replacing rapidly ageing batteries.
The study, which was published online this month in the journal Applied Science, assessed an unnamed commercially available PV-battery system installed in a family household in Loughborough, by recording the electricity demand over the course of two years. The system included a 4kW PV array coupled with a 2kWh battery, and the family of two parents and two children also charged up a Nissan Leaf electric car overnight…
Surprisingly however, the new UK study suggests that some home solar-storage systems currently on the market and boasting new lithium-ion batteries may not be quite so efficient after all.
Drawing on a detailed cost-benefit analysis and battery degradation model, the researchers found that the integration of a new lithium-ion battery with rooftop solar “yields no added benefit” in terms of utility savings and export revenue – perhaps even generating a £1 loss in the first year. As such, there was little to no environmental benefit in terms of energy efficiency either.
Yet, when the cost of battery degradation and subsequent replacement is factored in too, the study concluded that “the homeowner is subject to significant financial loss”, calculated at £400 in the first year, £108 in the second year and £78 by the end of the third.
Lead author of the study Kotub Uddin – a senior research fellow at the University of Warwick – told BusinessGreen he was “quite shocked” by the study’s findings, having expected the assessment to find energy and cost savings from such systems.
Moreover, he emphasised the involvement of Cenex – the Centre of Excellence for Low Carbon and Fuel Cell Technologies – which he said was an advocate of clean technologies such as battery storage…
https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/analysis/3016372/are-home-solar-battery-storage-systems-a-worthwhile-investment
ScienceDirect: Applied Energy: Volume 206, 15 November 2017, Pages 12–21
Techno-economic analysis of the viability of residential photovoltaic systems using lithium-ion batteries for energy storage in the United Kingdom
Open Access funded by Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030626191731190X
60
Australia would have more hours of sunshine than the UK, so perhaps in oz its more viable?
22
pat:
the cost of the necessary storage makes this a no-brainer. The system quoted is a minimal one with at best a few kW a day, and charging an electric car is just a distraction, they will never have enough storage to even start.
A quick calculation shows that for a 5kw system @ $4000 and a 12kw storage (Tesla @ $13000) it will cost just less than 30¢ per kWh REPLACEMENT cost, so double that because you have to pay for the system up front. A cost accountant would squirm but keeping it simple.
That would be about right to replace a daily usage of 15.5kWh. Using more than that and you would need a bigger solar system and storage or just buy in expensive mains power. I wouldn’t rely on it to cover you in winter, depending where you live.
Going the WHOLE HOG ** and splashing out $50,000 would be disastrous except if you had to have power all the time. Just the cost of replacement works out at 88¢ per kWh, when I was working on a retail price of 50¢ per kWh (which is pretty close when you average it over the connection charge/levies/GST as well as the supposed cost of what was used) and where costs are rapidly headed.
You would be much better getting a generator which would cost about 60¢ per kWh to run. A small amount of storage might help if you have solar as well.
** I don’t know why pigs, flying or at the trough, come to mind whenever I think about our electricity crisis.
70
I doubt that domestic solar system buyers consider all the costs, only what they are charged by the installer.
They ignore financing cost, loan interest or loss of interest on cash paid out. Depreciation over 20 years at best (battery pack less time) and the cost of making provision to pay for replacement. Costs that offset any gains from the system.
Maybe commercial-industrial buyers have tax concessions to consider and greater generating capacity combined to show a small profit?
10
Outrage at increasing electricity bills count for nothing. What does count is continual electrical blackouts. So until then expect more of the same. That will be the spark that gets things changing.
10
We are a rich country. Far more than $60B is being lost. The opportunity cost is $trillions. This will kill our economy. We will have attempted to “save the world from CO2” by destroying ourselves.
Will anyone left care?
160
100% agree Geoff.
The loss is way in excess of the $60bn raked up by the arithmetic students at The Australian (by a factor of at least 10!!!!).
Stop the CO2 horsesh*t and stop the subsidies. That is all that is needed to get power costs back to about 30% of current levels.
80
In the Australian yesterday: Origin Energy has denied accusations that NSW black coal power generators are driving electricity prices higher by aggressive and opportunistic bidding. The Australian reported on Wednesday that Schneider Electric had sent a report to clients saying aggressive bidding by black coal generators was adding $30-$35 per megawatt hour to the spot prices.
The real story, Origin says, is that the closure of the Hazelwood brown coal power station in Victoria this year meant a bigger-than-expected call on NSW coal stockpiles.
AGL, the nation’s biggest power generator, has already responded to the Schneider report. It said the higher prices at which power is being offered in NSW is due to the complexities of quickly sourcing coal, even in the Hunter Valley, as the March closure of the Hazelwood brown coal power station in Victoria increased demand.
Quickly getting hold of new coal supplies in the Hunter Valley is not as easy as it sounds, with much of the coal committed to export under contract.
So not only are we exporting too much gas, now we are exporting too much coal!
What do we pay the Australian Energy Regulator to do? The AER says that they make decisions that promote efficient investment in, and efficient operation and use of, energy services for the long term interests of energy consumers. If that’s their mission, fire the lot of them!!
But wait, they are going to do a study: “The AER is seeking stakeholder input into the development of a new approach to wholesale electricity market monitoring. The approach will guide the first comprehensive long-term monitoring of the markets and help inform advice to the COAG Energy Council on the effectiveness of competition and any barriers to competition and the efficient operation of the National Electricity Market”.
They are inviting written submissions on the issues raised in their discussion paper by the close of business Friday 13 October 2017.
Submissions should be sent to wholesaleperformance@aer.gov.au
But don’t hold your breath: “We must publish the first report by December 2018”. More Yes Minister stonewalling?
170
“any barriers to competition and the efficient operation of the National Electricity Market”.”
Massive subsidies for unreliables, and the RET, and feed-in price idiocy.
Get rid of ball those, and new coal fired RELIABLES becomes worthwhile building.
Cheap and plentiful electricity.. like we USED to have !!
132
I noticed around lunchtime today that Qld was producing more electricity from coal than NSW for the first time since I have been checking it.
The sooner they get sensible and allow the current market arrangements to collapse the better.
60
Robber,
We export all that gas because AUSTRALIA AND AUSTRALIANS DID NOT WANT THE GAS.
When the capital had been spent and the gas contracts were signed, sealed and delivered, we decided that all of a sudden we did want the gas.
How much more foolish can we be?
20
The Gillard Labor Government and Treasurer Swan signed the agreement that enables gas export with no provision required for Australian market, and for international market prices to be charged here for our gas before it is extracted.
00
I simply cannot get my mind around just how bad and corrupted the governance of Australia is by its almost incomprehensibly incompetent political class of today”
They appear to live in a tiny political bubble surrounded in that tiny bubble by an eqyually ignorant of reality, arrogant self serving and incompetent elite which bubble is eemingly so isolated and has walls so thick that any sense of responsibility and respect for those who elected them never penetrates into the inner bubble political core.
They seem totally immune to any sense of responsibility for the welfare of the citizens of this nation when they completely and deliberately ignore the essential needs of cheap and always available energy for industry and its employment and for the ultimate welfare of the lower income and pensioner sectors of our community and society.
They ignore in its totality through both verbiage and actions, the fact that the vast bulk of the nation’s citizenery elected the politicians to govern them honestly and fairly and equally.
They in their abject arrogance and bigotry ignore this most basic political factor in favour of throwing vast sums of those same citizens hard earned dollars into the coffers of a tiny minority of the rich and ultra rich whose immense financial powers and influences are used solely to further enhance their own interests and wealth at the expense of the lifting of living standards for the not so rich and outright poor that is then outcome of well proven policies for the promoting of a provision for cheap reliable always there electricity.
The political bubble dwelling politicians have chosen to govern in favour of increasing energy costs and deliberately creating energy shortages to the point of un-endurable prices for the low income sectors all whilst that tax payers billions will be showered withiut question or accountability onto the renewable energy interests of the wealthiest in the land.
They appear to be ignorant in the extreme that Science is now rapidly discarding the so called dangerous CO2 meme and the so far unseen and completely unproven dangers of any so far unseen global warming and any so called and again unproven climate change that has never been or can be shown to be scientifically proven and has been observed unambiguously to be caused by and created by the so called greenhouse gases.
Politicians of every stripe, colour. creed and ideology simply refuse to ask the real experts in the fields of power production, the engineers who build, run and maintain Australia’s power grid for any information, details of needs and operations and opinions on what are the best future options for Australia’s essential energy and power production.
Instead they promote energy production and energy distrubution ignorant economists, or so called mislabelled “scientists” who have No expertise at any level in the energy production sector and are usually and often second rate at that, with NO knowledge, interests, skills or operational experience in the power generation industry to provide those same politicians with policy outlines on what is required for Australia’s current and future and absolutely essential current and future energy needs and requirements.
The politicians refuse to even read the numerous submissions put to them by the very citizens who elected them on the serious, unviable , un-needed, incredibly short sighted, long term nation damaging and society and industry and commerce destroying energy production policies that the politicians persist in promoting against every possible and reasonable assessment that their policies will and are leading to the destruction of industry and social welfare and societal coheshion within Australia.
Instead they consult and quote and promote the rabidly obnoxious and scientifically unproven approach to energy production as promoted by the self serving, scamming, deeply corrupt renewable energy industry and its cronies in the avaricious finacial sector along with its energy production ignorant in the extreme co-adherents in the green and leftist groups.
The politicians appear to only listen to and give cresdennce to those same politically backed, avaricious, deeply corrupt renewable energy industry promoters aided by its program of a well enhanced grooming of naive green trending groups which they then used to promote those same renewable energy interests to the highly biased and bigoted against their own voter’s and electors vital living standard interests, the politically isolated from the real Australian reality, the political bubble dwelling Australian politicians.
I repeat; “I simply cannot get my mind around just how bad and corrupted the governance of Australia is by its almost incomprehensibly incompetent political class of today”
260
Rom, quite simply, the pollies arent working for the country.
They are working for the globalists – this is why the same agenda moves forward no matter which party wins power…..
QED
170
That’s it Steve.
Thank you ROM
10
ROM:
the name of the bubble is Canberra. You know, the place with practically no industry and a Green inclined population with annual income nearly double that of the rest of Australia. Their jobs aren’t on the line (they think), they can afford a few price hikes and anyway the ACT went around contracting Green Energy at around $70-80 per MWh well under the actual rate paid by us plebs through the retailers. On top of that the cost of the Certificates subsidising the ACT supply is dumped onto OUR bills not theirs. Their electricity is Green ( Pigs something to avoid MOD).
100
read the comments too:
31 Aug: Paul Homewood: Pen Hadow Gives Up- Blocked By Sea Ice!
Pen Hadow’s attempt to sail to the North Pole has been rather embarrassingly brought to an abrupt halt by sea ice!
The furthest North they got was 80 degrees 10 minutes, and after being moored to an ice floe for a day, the decision was made to turn tail and head south…
The Arctic Mission website tries to put the best spin on it…
***”It is believed Arctic Mission has sailed further north from the coastlines surrounding the Arctic Ocean than any vessel in history without icebreaker support.”
Much of what they claim is sheer drivel…
Hadow will doubtlessly return home to be feted by the BBC, where he will claim that the objective was never to reach the North Pole, but only to do scientific research.
But let’s not forget what the headlines on their own website say…READ ALL
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2017/08/31/pen-hadow-gives-up-blocked-by-sea-ice/
JOHNSTON/INDEPENDENT IS FULL OF IT, INCLUDES QUOTES FROM HADOW TO THE INDEPENDENT:
***1 Sept: UK Independent: Ian Johnston: Two yachts become first ever vessels to enter Central Arctic Ocean without icebreaker support
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/yachts-central-arctic-ocean-first-ever-icebreaker-support-north-pole-pen-hadrow-erik-de-jong-a7922401.html
61
They used to go whaling, and use the Arctic as a transport route during the MWP.
But the Little Ice Age brought that to a halt.
Seems that the RECOVERY from the extreme levels of the LIA has basically stopped, mores the pity….. (1979 was up there with those levels, around Iceland at least)
What a HUGE benefit it would be if the sea ice did actually drop back down to pre-LIA levels
Travel, commerce, fishing, etc etc would all become possible.
82
The notorious dingbat, Griff is fixing that problem on a weekly basis by saying that the arctic ice is disappearing before our very eyes (Griff is a regular troll on WUWT and other reputable sites).
10
Resource-rich Oz, zombified by globalism, crony capitalism and Big Green.
Impious is a fine old word. We have to start using it more.
80
first you destroy it, then you apply bandaids:
31 Aug: Reuters: Ofgem to launch consultation on energy price cap by end-September
Reporting by Nina Chestney; editing by Susan Thomas
British energy market regulator Ofgem hopes to speed up the launch of an energy price cap for vulnerable households by publishing a consultation on the issue by the end of September, it said on Thursday. Last month, Ofgem said it could cap bills for some of the most vulnerable households and make switching supplier easier, in response to a government request for it to set out plans to help customers on the poorest-value tariffs…
It said it planned to consult with consumer groups over the potential changes which could cover around 2 million consumers already on discounts to help them heat their homes. “We plan to publish a fast-track consultation at the end of next month on our preferred option of introducing a safeguard tariff for vulnerable customers early next year,” an Ofgem spokesman said.
Bringing the safeguard tariff into place by early next year would be earlier than the previously expected April start date. In its national election campaign, British Prime Minister Teresa May’s government said it would tackle high household energy prices if she was re-elected by setting a cap on standard variable tariffs which could affect 17 million families. In June, the government did not mention a price cap when setting out policy objectives but said it was still committed to helping consumers hit by the most expensive tariffs.
All of Britain’s biggest energy companies – Centrica’s British Gas, SSE, Scottish Power, EDF Energy, E.ON and Npower – have announced price increases this year, citing higher wholesale prices and the cost of ***government policies to support renewable energy generation…
http://www.euronews.com/2017/08/31/ofgem-to-launch-consultation-on-energy-price-cap-by-end-september
not a hint from CAGW zealot Jillian Ambrose that CAGW policies have played any part whatsoever in the mess that is the ***TROUBLED energy market:
31 Aug: UK Telegraph: Jillian Ambrose: SSE revealed as most profit-hungry of Big Six as margins climb for a third year
Britain’s second largest energy supplier has steadily grown the profits it makes from supplying energy to households for a third year in a row despite mounting political pressure to keep bills low…
SSE’s brazen profit boom puts the company narrowly behind British Gas as the most lucrative major supplier in the ***troubled market after profit margins at the Centrica-owned supplier shrank last year…
SSE’s steady margin hikes have emerged just months after SSE boss Alistair Phillips-Davies’ pay doubled to £2.92m for the year ended March driving the ratio between his pay packet and that of the average employee to 72:1, having been 42:1 a year earlier…
The Big Six already face growing calls for the regulator to cap energy prices after surviving a major investigation by the UK’s competition authorities and countless political threats to crackdown on rising energy bills…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/31/sse-revealed-profit-hungry-big-six-margins-climb-third-year/
31 Aug: UK Times: Emily Gosden: Ofgem powers ahead with price cap for two million
Energy plan falls short of May’s pledge to help 17m households…
The plan will fall significantly short of a cap for all 17 million households on expensive standard tariffs promised by Theresa May before the election, reigniting ***a political row…
***reigniting a political row, when all major parties played a part in wrecking the energy market!
40
Ronald Reagan’s description of how a government handles economy:
If it moves, tax it.
If it still moves, regulate it.
When it stops moving, subsidize it.
10
A dam in Victoria would have cost $2 billion (roughly), provided water and potentially power. A desal plant will cost over $40 billion in it’s lifetime, probably not produce any water or at a very high cost and will require exorbitant amounts of power. Renewables are just another feather in the cap of the idiot Green/Left; lots of ‘money for nothing’ (there was a song about that).
100
The cost to build a nuclear power plant is around $9 billion, South Australia would be mad not to consider the potential.
80
I don’t agree–nuclear isn’t necessary.
00
The cost to build a new 600 MW coal plant is roughly $2 billion.
70
Both dams and coal fired power stations create real jobs and lots of them , we should be building more of both , Dangerous Dan paid one billion not to build a road which created no jobs .
50
Not to worry, the black hats were appeased with copious hours sinking railway lines or skyways or overpasses or tunnels over the next ten years…at least the CFMEU is happy.
Having said that. The two urgent infrastructure builds are the Mitchell River and Big Buffalo dams. Money should allocated to revisit the Kiewa scheme and start building supercritical power stations in the LaTrobe. Rescind the ban on drilling for gas…conventional and unconventional.
Years ago, I was told of the huge reserves of brown coal beneath the Simpson desert that rival Victoria. It turns out, in the lower Cooper basin, we are sitting on a world class gas reserve. Not being developed…Yet…needs unconventional drilling to realise the resource. Why sweat over drilling in the Liverpool plains when there is a resource in heartbreak corner where the locals are/were still glad to see oil crews:)
50
Desalination plants have a very high maintenance cost every year used or not used.
Another burden to state government budgets around Australia, taxpayers ripped off.
00
Dennis, the costs of those unused Desal plants are not coming out of government budgets, they are included in our water bills, adding around $500 per year.
20
31 Aug: FairfaxBrisbaneTimes: Felicity Caldwell: Major parties fight it out on energy ***credentials
On Thursday, the LNP released a “five-point renewable energy plan” and committed to the National Renewable Energy target of 23 per cent.
Queensland Labor has a target of generating 50 per cent of energy from renewable sources by 2030.
The LNP’s plan includes developing a regulatory framework to encourage renewable investment, setting up a one-stop shop to facilitate approvals, monitoring linkages to the National Energy Market to ensure renewable energy projects have access.
Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls said the LNP also supported a privately-funded, high-efficiency, low-emissions coal-fired power station in north Queensland to drive a lower power price…
Ms Palaszczuk said 2.5 years ago, Queensland did not have a large-scale renewable industry.
“We now have $3.4 billion worth of pipeline in investment in renewable, which will mean over 2700 jobs,” she said.
Ms Palaszczuk was, unsurprisingly, not a fan of the LNP opposition plan and also criticised the 23 per cent renewable target
***”People are investing in a 50 per cent renewable target by 2030, ***people are investing in Queensland because my government is providing stability and providing certainty,” she said…
Ms Palaszczuk said Labor’s plan would connect renewable energy projects with transmission lines to the grid.
“At the moment, these projects are not online with the grid,” she said.
“So it’ll mean more capacity and more capacity will bring down power prices.”…
Ms Palaszczuk said Queensland did not need a new coal-fired power station.
“We have the youngest fleet of coal-fired power stations in the nation, we are exporting electricity to our southern states,” she said…
Treasurer Curtis Pitt said the government understood people were hurting.
“And we know as a state government, we are pulling nearly every lever we can to ensure that we are putting downward pressure on electricity pricing, including ***directing Stanwell Corporation to have regard for peak demand,” he said…
It comes after a Finder.com.au survey of 2010 people, conducted by Pureprofile, found 18 per cent of Queenslanders struggled to pay their energy bills.
In comparison, people in New South Wales struggled the least, with only 13 per cent having a hard time paying energy bills.
Finder.com.au editor-in-chief Angus Kidman said some people were cutting down on household necessities like groceries to ease the pressure, although looking out for energy guzzlers, such as appliances in standby mode could help, and replacing light bulbs with energy-efficient alternatives.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/major-parties-fight-it-out-on-energy-credentials-20170831-p4yvnt.html
30
so Fairfax chooses to Finder.com.au editor-in-chief Angus Kidman for an idiotic comment on fuel poverty! check his Twitter page – obviously a man who likes to fly! lol:
Twitter: Angus Kidman, http://finder.com.au editor-in-chief
TWEETS:
1 Sept: I pay no mind to any stupidity from Tony Abbott. He doesn’t deserve the attention…
30 Aug: Today’s #Findings column: Why I’m thrilled Qantas is bringing back Sydney-Singapore-London flights
30 Aug: Woah, I’m up for editor of the year in the @mumbrella Publish awards
15 Aug: I’ll be on (ABC) @RNDrive around 1850 talking NBN, LinkedIn bot wars and Facebook in China with @PatsKarvelas
https://twitter.com/gusworldau?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
20
I nomnate him for the
Publisher
Ratbag
Award for
This year.
40
Fairfax says Pureprofile carried out the survey for Finder.com.au!
should we trust them? piece is unattributed, reads like a Pureprofile press release:
May 2016: EcoVoice: The new solar solution providing cheap energy for manufacturing industry
Australian businesses within the manufacturing industry highlight energy costs as the second highest burden their businesses face behind raw material costs[i]…
(AT END OF ARTICLE) [i] Research conducted by Origin Energy and Pure Profile in October 2013
Origin’s new Solar as a Service allows companies to enjoy the benefits of low cost solar energy without having to make the capital investment in the solar system…
Richard Parker, General Manager of Townsville Engineering, had been considering going solar since 2014 but never pursued it until Origin launched Solar as a Service…READ ALL
http://www.ecovoice.com.au/the-new-solar-solution-providing-cheap-energy-for-manufacturing-industry/
15 March: Mumbrella: Pureprofile looks beyond research as Andrew Edwards takes executive chairman role
by Simon Canning
In recent weeks the company has added a string of new clients including Unilever, Carlton & United Breweries and AOL to its roster and Edwards said he expected to announce other wins in coming weeks…
Analysts say wins of global clients such as Unilever an work on a proof of concept with News Corp appear to be helping pave the way for the business, with Edwards saying the Australian-based business would see much of its opportunities with global brands…
“Pureprofile is borne our of research, we understand what people want and we understand how people are feeling.”…
https://mumbrella.com.au/pureprofile-looks-beyond-research-as-andrew-edwards-takes-executive-chairman-role-429659
23 Jul: HuffPo: Cayla Dengate: We Asked Ikea Why It’s Selling Bikes. The Answer Is Sustainability
Australians want to live more sustainably — and businesses are taking notice.
A ***PureProfile study of 1000 people found 63 percent of Australians wanted to be more sustainable but half didn’t know where to start. The study also showed 39 percent found sustainability “completely overwhelming”.
University of Technology Sydney Associate Professor Paul Burke told HuffPost Australia the consumer wasn’t necessarily across the finer points of sustainability…
10 Aug: ProActiveInvestors: Pureprofile broadens its partnership with News Corp
Pureprofile (ASX:PPL) has signed an expanded two year agreement with News Corp (ASX:NWS) to support the expansion of “News Connect” across News Corp’s global digital properties.
The company’s News Connect will offer consumers access to premium content in exchange for answering questions designed to help News Corp create and develop deeper consumer profiles
Pureprofile already has a blue-chip client base, including Commonwealth Bank, Disney and Audi…
10
there was a time, before electricity bills increased by one or two hundred percent, while wages stagnated, that surveys would be done that made more sense than the Pureprofile/Finder rubbish suggesting a mere 18% or 13% of Australians were struggling with their bills.
mind you, even then, they were usually shilling for renewables, like solar in the case of this one:
Oct 2014: MakeItCheaper: How many Australians struggle to pay electricity bills?
Posted by Nikki Wilson-Everett
Rising electricity prices are a fact of life for many Australian households and the latest research from Ernst & Young (EY) suggests they’re becoming an increasing source of financial hardship.
The group’s latest Customer Experience Series – Utilities highlights just how widespread the problem is and that it has become an even bigger burden over recent years.
A cross-section of electricity customers were asked what their main reason was for failing to pay their electricity bill on time, with many citing affordability. This is most prominent in regional areas, where 78 per cent of customers said they couldn’t afford to make a payment, compared to 49 per cent in metropolitan parts of the country.
Not only this, 70 per cent of those polled said they were either often or occasionally concerned about being able to pay their electricity supplier…
Research from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) released earlier this year showed that while consumption of electricity is declining across the country, people are paying more for it.
Over the past four years, Australian households have used an average of 4 per cent less electricity, but its value has increased 43 per cent over the same period.
“Households and the manufacturing industry were the two largest domestic electricity users, with households using 24 per cent of all electricity and contributing 40 per cent of the total value of electricity use,” explained Peter Williams from the ABS.
Investment in renewables could increase as a result of these findings, especially as consumers realise they’re not being financially rewarded for using less electricity…
https://www.makeitcheaper.com.au/news/how-many-australians-struggle-to-pay-electricity-bills
provided u can navigate it, this appears to be the report:
PDF: 24 pages: Ernst&Young: Power & Utilities Sector Report
http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/EY-digital-australia-state-of-the-nation-power-and-Utilities-sector-report/%24FILE/EY-Digital-Australia-Power-and-utilities-sector-report.pdf
20
Can someone please check these maths? Human CO2 emissions are 3% of global emissions. Australia emits 1.16% of human emissions. Does that mean Australia emits 0.0348% of total global emissions?
70
Actually, because of Australia’s size and sparseness of population
Australia is a NET CARBON SINK.
ALL other nations ought to be paying us an anti-carbon tax.
112
Shhhhh. When they wake up they’ll want us to pay for the CO2 we squander.
60
Found this but it only refers to fossil fuel use I think , given the fact we’re only 1% on this list I still struggle to see how we get over 3% .
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html#.Wak5r9F_WhA
20
Actually Australia emits 1.3% of world emissions, of which 32% are from electricity generation. Global emissions are supposed to dwarf man made emissions by a MINIMUM of 96 to 4, so reducing emissions from Australan electricity generation would result in 0.008-0.09% reduction in World emissions. Given that manmade electricity generation emissions under the Paris Accord are likely to rise by 25-35% any reduction because of Australian actions would be 0.006% roughly. WOW!
50
That 1.3% is five fifths of fig all no matter how you look at it , all the govt wasted money on a nothing issue , probably could have cured cancer and who knows what else with that money .
30
No the Green Weekly claims that all the coal and gas exported from Australia and burnt overseas is Australia’s responsibility so they add those emissions, calculated on export quantities, to our emissions.
10
I’m no good at maths but if humans are putting out 3% Co2 the figure of 1.16% just for Oz must be wrong surely, China USA and India have a bigger Co2 output than us .
30
Perhaps it’s 1.16% of the 3% we are talking about?
30
Annie,
If I understand it correctly, you are right. Australia contributes 1.16% (roughly) of 100% of ANTHROPOGENIC CO2 generated by humans. however, all of the ANTHROPOGENIC CO2 is only about 3% of the CO2 generated. in other words, about 96-97% of CO2 is from natural sources. Go figure…
31
Rang my electricity provider today to see if they could match a quote from Origin , OMG I forgot they were a totally green renewable provider .
As you may know not great with maths but origin were 20 cents cheaper with the daily supply charge but a couple of cents dearer with the electricity per kw but when you applied the discount I would be paying about 26 cents which is cheaper than what I pay now at 33.95 and 37.50 cents per kw .
The operator tried to convince me that with the discount of 10% their electricity was cheaper and greener , I told her if I could generate electricity in my backyard using coal I would because I loved the stuff and then told her how good Co2 was for greening the planet etc .
Upshot of it all was I couldn’t convince her that coal was good and she couldn’t convince me that 30 cents is less than 26 cents .
81
Maybe, some expert from an underdeveloped country could write a book called Cheap Electricity Supply for Dummies.
40
Oz weather changing back to winter according to CH7
50
Officially warmest winter on record. In Australia. ( coldest known by long term Goulburn residents)
61
Anyone who says winter was cold does not count.
By Order,
BoM
61
Forgive BoM management, they are preparing a report on BoM weather stations that are faulty, that change decimal places to create a long term average increase.
And, dealing with eliminating the “errors and omissions” they discovered in 2014 when the evidence was handed to the minister.
10
I use renewable energy – wood – and am very happy with it. It keeps me warm in winter. Solar & wind? niche energy sources, would not use them as a primary source, too unreliable, too costly. Solar is ok. as a backup for lighting, however for cooking a gas stove is really necessary.
70
Yes, and even using a chain saw to cut it you get warmed twice (and get to clear trees off fence lines).
Cheers,
Dave B
50
Add some renewable Sheep’s Wool insulation and the house occupants can relax in comfort.
Wood heaters are fantastic.
20
Again, how much of this foolishness will it take for Aussies to get rid of the green energy consortium cabal of politicians that suck up donations and graft and corruption so one “feels good” about destroying the environment along with their livelihood?
50
Jo, assuming that the RET goes away at some point, can you explain how your vision of a ‘free market’ for electricity generation in Australia would work, as you do mention it a lot (yes, and I know I probably mention your mention of it a lot too 🙂 ) but I would genuinely like to know. In this ‘free market’ what will drive a generator to sell electricity at 3 cents? Is it competition with some 50 year old Gov owned generators that were making power at that price some 20 years ago? Surely the ‘free market’ is out to make the most money that they can, they are not in it to be benevolent. Look how the deregulated retailers are taking 30% of your bill. They are only doing that because they can. Surely that is how a market works? As they say – the cost of living is high, but it is still proving popular. In Australia the market for electric energy is quite static as is often pointed out with the repetitive nature of the base load consumption. How can we possibly have (significantly) more generation than demand, which is a pre-requisite for a market to drive prices down by competition? We can’t just find new markets by throwing an extension lead over to Asia. The idea of increasing the base load significantly with the move to electric (storage) vehicles seems to attract a lot of derision too. Do you envisage umpteen USC generators all competing with one another and running on some low CF? Aside from all the uncertainty with the RETBS and CO2BS, who is the ‘we’ that should build these new stations, when the expectation is they can only charge 3 cents, because that is how it has always been, and that we still have adequate generation capacity? Why would this new player bother to charge less than the current prices if we ‘must’ have this power?
Do you have a prototype in mind for this ‘free market’ in electricity that we could base things on or look to for guidance?
21
I agree with you.
There should be no market in electricity and all power generation should be by government at base cost.
Having a market simply introduces another layer of cost for consumers to pay for.
Perhaps you want a free market because you know that government generation is prone to attack from union bosses wanting a bit on the side?
What is your point?
KK
20
My point Keith, is I am uncertain of how Jo’s ‘free market’ utopia delivering 3 cent/kWh wholesale price would work in a very static market. The retail end of that ‘free market’ is gouging the market already and makes the RET and GST combined look small. I am not even sure why most food can be exempt of GST but not an essential like electricity. What would it take to form ‘community retailers’ that work essentially as not-for-profit entities and retail to a local group of subscribers, reading their own meters etc and paying the wholesaler? Basically just a group buy set-up.
10
Joe:
Coal never delivered at 3¢ per kWh. 3.5 or 4 (Vic. and NSW) 6 in SA (because of lower grade coal (high ash) and lack of scale. Finkel says that new HELE coal fired would be at 7.6¢ per kWh, still cheaper than wind, solar or gas. I think that he added a bit there as so many countries are going for HELE coal fired because it is cheap, not just a marginally cheap route which could be replaced by renewables and a subdidy from the eco-loons of the EU.
Nor is government control necessarily a certain cheaper option. Part of the problem is that certain State Gov. were using the electricity generation as a “Cash Cow”. They wanted to keep prices low so neglected maintenance and replacement to keep ‘dividends’ up. Also the cost was manipulated because 1¢ per kWh could be passed off without comment or the voters getting too upset, while bringing more for the Govt. to waste.
The other problem is that the Retailers are the point where the cost of RET subsidies is lumped in. Those Large scale Generation Certificates at $82-90 (per MWh) are added onto your bill (+ GST and any levies) and they inflate the amount apparently going to the Retailers. I am not saying the Retailers are vegetarian sharks, merely that they are only partly to blame.
Similarly the grid operators. They got a rundown grid and had to introduce all sorts of up-grades to accomodate the politicians wish for distributed generation on top of bringing the grid up to scratch. Yes, they ‘gamed’ the system thanks to our incompetent politicians guaranteeing them a set rate of return on money spent. Thanks Labor.
The best way to get cheaper electricity is to boot the clueless and ignorant politicians out of any control at all. The same must apply to our Public ‘Servants” who are just as useless.
30
Ho hum! (my bolding here)
Just think eh!
One cent per KWH. Nothing eh!
In the case of just one large scale coal fired power plant, say Bayswater f’rinstance, that one cent per KWH on all the power generated by that ONE plant translates to, umm $170 Million a year.
Or you might even think of the Queensland Government eh! They OWN 60% of all coal fired power in Queensland, so that one cent per KWH that, you know, no one ever notices, well that comes in at around, umm, $400 to $450 Million a year.
ONE CENT PER KWH.
Now can you see why it is so lucrative.
Tony.
40
Graeme No 3. You said: “Coal never delivered at 3¢ per kWh, 3.5 or 4 (Vic and NSW) 6 in SA”.
Did you mean always delivered?
Victorian Wholesale Electricity Average Prices (source AEMO), so these numbers include gas and hydro costs to cover peak morning and evening demands averaged over each year:
2000 2.6 cents/kWhr
2005 2.8 cents
2010 3.6 cents
2012 2.7 cents
2013 5.7 cents (Carbon tax introduced)
2014 5.1 cents
2015 3.0 cents (Carbon tax removed)
2016 4.6 cents
1Q 2017 8.0 cents
2Q 2017 10.5 cents (Hazelwood closed March 2017)
Oh for the good old days not so long ago when we had among the world’s cheapest electricity.
00
more movies not to see:
1 Sept: AFP: Angus McKinnon: (Paul) Schrader gives Venice glimpse of Apocalypse soon
“If you are hopeful about humanity and the planet you are not paying attention,” Schrader said Thursday as he presented his latest writing and directing project at the Venice film festival.
The film (First Reformed) turns around the uncheery theme of impending environmental apocalypse and the question of whether Christians could or should have done more to prevent it…
Outlining the thinking that lay behind his script, Schrader added: “I have to be honest. I have lived in the magic cone of history, the baby boomer years.”
“A life of affluence, a life of leisure, a life of little pestilence, little war. And for that my generation has pretty well screwed the planet for our kids.”
Such themes are being increasingly reflected by filmmakers: planetary destruction driven by climate warming was a prominent theme in Venice’s opening film “Downsizing”…
– ‘Atonement by blood’ –
Tragedy recurs after the pastor begins counselling a depressed environmentalist activist, at the request of his pregnant wife, Mary (Seyfried).
This proves to be a catalyst for a spiritual rebirth of sorts, Toller rediscovering his faith in righteous anger over his discovery that the church is being bankrolled by a polluting industrialist.
Will he channel that anger into violence or find salvation in this life through resolution of a developing intimacy with Seyfried’s character? Does he give in to despair or embrace hope, as represented by love?
Schrader leaves the questions unanswered with an ambiguous finale, but makes no excuse for portraying a Christian minister as a potential suicide bomber.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/schrader-gives-venice-glimpse-apocalypse-soon-153509332.html
31 Aug: Reuters: Shrunken Matt Damon opens 74th Venice film festival
by Agnieszka Flak
Alexander Payne’s “Downsizing”, a satire about shrinking humans to five inches tall as a solution to over-population and global warming, opened the Venice film festival on Wednesday.
It kicked off days of screenings, parties and red carpet glamour at the world’s oldest film fest on the historic lagoon city’s Lido island…
But unlike the ***noble intentions that drove scientists to find a way to fight global warming, most of the people who sign up for the irreversible procedure are lured by the promise of being able to multiply their possessions and afford luxuries – from villas to diamond necklaces – they could normally only dream of…
“Downsizing” is one of 21 U.S. and international features vying for Venice’s Golden Lion that will be awarded on Sept. 9…
While “Downsizing” is set in America, Payne brings in characters from across the world to show how something like this phenomenon “would ripple around the world”, the director said…
http://in.reuters.com/article/filmfestival-venice-downsizing/shrunken-matt-damon-opens-74th-venice-film-festival-idINKCN1BA20G
30 Aug: Vanity Fair: Guy Lodge: Venice Review: Alexander Payne’s Satire Downsizing Presents an Oddly Appealing Escape from Trump’s America
If shrinking yourself down to the size of a Hershey’s bar meant never seeing a MAGA hat again, would you?
20
not everyone in Florida is keen to take up young ***Delaney’s suggestion:
1 Sept: TampaBayTimes: Charlie Frago: St. Petersburg’s solar ordinance goes into cold storage
ST. PETERSBURG — A controversial proposal to require that solar panels be installed on all new residential construction will likely be frozen for a year due to public outcry and a sudden lack of support from elected officials.
The city introduced the proposed ordinance, modeled on a similar effort in South Miami, at a public meeting on Wednesday. It was met with tough questions from homeowners about the potential costs, said City Council chairwoman Darden Rice.
Based on the concerns raised at the meeting, Rice said Thursday she has decided to ask fellow council members to delay any further official meetings on the proposal for a year…
So the ordinance no longer has an elected official championing it. It’s unclear, however, who got the idea rolling in the first place.
The mayor’s office said Kriseman wasn’t pushing the ordinance. Rice said she always had some reservations. Other council members who showed initial support have now cooled on it.
“It’s still the Wild West out there,” Rice said. “We’re not ready to make anything mandatory.”…
***The idea first surfaced from a presentation to Rice’s Energy, Natural Resources and Sustainability Committee from Delaney Reynolds, a college student and climate activist who persuaded South Miami officials to pass their ordinance earlier this year…
So why would Kilborn and Wright, who report to Kriseman, work on an ordinance that apparently has no support from the mayor or the council? Mayoral spokesman Ben Kirby said not much time was spent on the measure, which was largely modeled on the South Miami ordinance…
http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/st-petersburgs-solar-ordinance-goes-into-cold-storage/2335900
damage control in Utah:
1 Sept: KUTV Utah: As solar companies fail to compete, consumers may be left with incomplete installs
by Matt Gephardt and Michelle Poe|
Way back in May of 2016, she contracted with a company called Solei Solar, paying $29,429. Solei dispatched an installer, Centrair Electric, which installed the panels.
But Centrair, essentially, never plugged the panels in.
Hawke says she called multiple times asking that Centrair return to get the panels working. When that didn’t work, she says she called Solei – then something strange happened.
Out of the blue, she got a $500 check from Solei with a handwritten note in the memo column reading, “Satisfaction of any and all solei solar responsibilities for Eileen Hawke.”
Hawke says she simply wants her panels hooked up but now neither company will respond.
“All of the numbers are disconnected,” she said. “Their corporate numbers are all gone.”…
All numbers were disconnected and Solei’s Pleasant Grove headquarters has been closed…
Ryan Evan, President of the Utah Solar Energy Association says, unfortunately, stories like Hawke’s aren’t unique. There are a lot of entrepreneurs who are trying to get into the business…
“The solar industry is booming,” he said. “In the state of Utah, we have about 4400 employees from about 100 different solar companies.”
But he warns that consumers should beware who they chose to hire because, with all that competition, some businesses just can’t make it work. Some fold, leaving customers with little recourse…
Hawke says is now working with Alliance to get her system up and running. Alliance is doing the work free of charge, Hawke says. She is grateful…
http://kutv.com/news/get-gephardt/as-solar-companies-fail-to-compete-consumers-may-be-left-with-incomplete-installs
10
30 Aug: BBC: Billionaire loses Creag Riabhach Wind Farm challenge
An estates owner has lost a bid to overturn Scottish government approval for a 22-turbine wind farm within wild land.
Danish billionaire Anders Povlsen raised a judicial review in a bid to have the decision set aside.
His Wildland Ltd, which owns the Ben Loyal, Kinloch and Hope and Melness estates, challenged approval of Creag Riabhach Wind Farm.
It is to be developed on a site on the Altnaharra Estate.
Wildland Ltd was among objectors to the wind farm in the Highlands.
Lord Boyd of Duncansby, who heard the judicial review, said Wildland Ltd’s position appeared to be that no wind farm whatsoever should be allowed on designated wild land areas.
The judge said: “That may be, but that is a political decision and not one for the courts.”…
A spokesman for Wildland Ltd and Ltd and the Welbeck Estates said: “We are saddened and disappointed at the court’s decision.
“Let there be no doubt – this development is a substantial incursion into the wildland area between Foinaven, Ben Hee, Arkle, Ben Hope, Ben Loyal and Ben Klibreck – from whose summits this industrial scale development will be highly visible.
“We suspect the same can be said for Suilven, Quinag and Canisp in Assynt as well.”…
***Following the court’s decision, Mountaineering Scotland and the John Muir Trust have both called for greater protection of wild land from development.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-41094169
***BBC loves to give voice to environmental groups when it suits the CAGW agenda. what they omitted in this case:
31 Aug: Grough Magazine, UK: Bob Smith: ‘Protect wild land’ say mountaineers, after Creag Riabhach windfarm ruling
The representative body for hillwalkers, climbers and mountaineers north of the border said the ruling would degrade the landscape in the far north of Scotland…
Mountaineering Scotland called for wild land to be given absolute protection in planning policy. It said the windfarm will encroach on a wild-land area in one of Scotland’s most valued landscapes…
Views from northern mountains such as Ben Loyal, Foinaven, Arkle, Ben Klibreck and Scotland’s most northerly munro Ben Hope will be affected by the 22-turbine Creag Riabhach windfarm, with five of the turbines actually standing within a wild land area…
Mountaineering Scotland chief executive David Gibson said “While we respect the decision of the court, the decision of the minister to approve this windfarm will render an extraordinary, world-renowned, wild and open landscape completely ordinary…
“The irony is that there is no need for the Creag Riabhach development; there is already enough operational and consented capacity to meet the Scottish Government’s generation target.”…
The conservation charity the John Muir Trust echoed Mountaineering Scotland’s call for protection for all wild land.
The trust said the controversy over Creag Riabhach demonstrates the political case for bringing the level of protection for Scotland’s 42 wild land areas into line with national scenic areas and national parks.
A spokesperson said: “The wild land areas map was published by Scottish Natural Heritage in 2014 and subsequently promised ‘significant protection’ in Scottish Government planning policy.
“Since then a number of windfarms applications in and around wild land have been refused consent by the Scottish Government. But the decision last year to approve Creag Riabhach has created uncertainty over the status of the wild land areas map…
The charity’s chief executive Andrew Bachell said: “Although we were not part of this legal case, we were among the organisations which objected to the 22-turbine wind farm, which will extend into wild land area 37…
“The current ambiguity in the status of wild land areas devours time and money, and can involve councils, planning officials, energy companies, conservation organisations, government ministers, government agencies, lawyers and judges deliberating over a single application.
“Stronger protection would also be in tune with public opinion. A recent Scotland-wide YouGov poll found that 80 per cent agree or strongly agree that wild land areas should be protected, with only five per cent opposed.”…
https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/08/31/protect-wild-land-say-mountaineers-following-ruling-on-creag-riabhach-windfarm
BBC still haven’t found the right words to describe the following, so have remained silent so far:
1 Sept: Breitbart: James Delingpole: Ship of Fools IV: Another Green Arctic Expedition Scuppered by Ice
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/01/delingpole-ship-of-fools-iv-another-green-arctic-expedition-scuppered-by-ice/
40
With only 10% of the vote, the Greens are running the country.
They achieved this not by increasing their share of the votes, but by
infiltrating the Labor Party and then infecting the Liberal Party.
The Greens are not only running the country, they are holding our hands as we sign the nation’s suicide note. Of course, the Greens couldn’t have done this alone.
George Soros’ funded GetUp! and myriad other international
green (Marxist) groups have bolstered our pissant local version of anarchy.
90
GD the free radicals entered mainstream politics after the fall of the Berlin Wall, infiltrating the Greens firstly in Balmain, but their greatest success came with PM Gillard.
Now all the mainstream parties have been swallowed by a green blob vortex and auntie has a strong Trot influence.
30
In a previous post I said that wars are obsolete.
Wars were always about power and wealth but now politicians can get away with redirecting our Tax Dollars anywhere they like.
In the last few years we have truckloads of our cash sent to friends and minders in a number of projects;
The desalination fiasco , huge salaries for the mob.
Victorian roads; huge salaries for the “workers”.
“Donations” to the U.N. fund for this or that, possibly to be sequestered to later fund a position as roving ambassador when they get tired of spending our money here.
The best paying of the lot is the renewables fiasco. Some people have personally benefited from the CO2 scam. How can such a non_problem possibly justify the diversion of our personal savings to the new war Lord’s treasury.
Perhaps Julia might know.
Perhaps Kevin might know.
And Malcolm surely knows why electricity is so expensive.
What a wonderful world.
For some.
KK
60
AEMO intervenes to keep the lights on in SA.
Direction – South Australia Region 02/09/17. In accordance with section 116 of the National Electricity Law AEMO has issued a direction to a participant in the South Australia region.
The direction was necessary to maintain the power system in a secure operating state.
The direction was issued at 0430 hrs and is expected to stay in place until 0430 hrs 03/09/17.
Intervention pricing will be implemented from the 0930 hrs dispatch interval until the end of the AEMO Intervention Event.
What did AEMO do? Did they curtail some wind generation that is currently supplying 75% of SA demand of 1000 MW, or did they force more gas generation? SA is currently sending 250 MW to Vic.
40
“Solar costs have probably fallen 75 to 80 per cent in the last six or seven years,”
Yes the cost of components has fallen dramatically because of cheaper components from China. Just what is the quality of these components, how long will they continue to work efficiently. We have seen structures fail because of low quality steel, tap fittings that release lead into the water and solar panels failing prematurely. The common factor: made in China.
Still waiting to see how the “Great Wall” survives in the motoring market place.
40
Even if the components were free it would still be expensive electricity.
42
TedM:
Fallen from what? It still costs 3 times what coal fired was delivering at before supply was disrupted.
50
Climate has always changed. No surprise there. Humanity has an on-going and increasing effect on climate which greatly increases the risk of catastrophe. It’s just that CO2 has no significant influence on it. Blaming CO2 is barking up the wrong tree.
44
It might be interesting were your polemic a trifle less enigmatic. Links and empirical evidence (other than modelling) might be helpful?
31
Apparently some aren’t aware that all they need to do is click on my name for explanation, links, etc.
Water vapor thru July 2017 Numerical data, satellite based measurements by NASA/RSS: http://data.remss.com/vapor/monthly_1deg/tpw_v07r01_198801_201707.time_series.txt
Graphed in Fig 3 at http://globalclimatedrivers2.blogspot.com
Global water withdrawal, irrigation, Aquastat: http://www.fao.org/nr/water/aquastat/water_use/index.stm
10
Ok, This will be quick as I’m supposed to be heading off to the local farmers market at the edge of town.
$60,000,000,000 [ $60 billion ] subsidy to the Unreliable, non Renewable Energy industry over the next 13 years
= $4.6 billion per year
divided by 23,000,000 Australian citizens = $200 per year, per cititizen regardless of age.
Average household say of four persons including infans and children = $800 per year per average household for the next 13 years and thats without the inevitable blowouts that occur in EVERY government calculation plus inflation.
The political Bubble dwelling B——-rds in Canberra and Melbourne and Adelaide and Hobart and Brisbane and etc are starck raving mad as well as being completely and utterly incompetent plus being totally ignorant and appearing to want to remain so about the real life and problems their voting constituents have to deal with every day of every week of their lives.
Plus not giving a single damn about the Australian citizens and voters who elected them to govern the Nation on behalf of those same citizens.
50
ROM:
Do I read a slight sense of dissatisfaction about our politicians in your prose? I would put it stronger but I would fall foul of MOD.
50
So, the question becomes, what kind of basket will the Australian economy look like in 2030, after the totalitarian ideologues have stolen a further $60,000M ($60B) of work from individuals (in todays $)?
Currently the ATO annual net tax collection from individuals is $187,101M . In effect, the federal renewable energy subsidy represents the theft of an additional four months of work over 12 years.
Australian Tax Freedom Day this year was April 13th. Approximately, an additional two and a half days have been stolen each year for the next 12 years, extending bureaucratic enslavement to beyond April 15th.
20
The $60bn in direct subsidies is peanuts compared to the indirect costs that are causing electricity prices to skyrocket.
Wind and solar intermittent generation is causing the grid to increase dependence on high cost fast response, high cost gas generation. That is causing slow response, low cost coal generation to become uneconomic and is closing down. So far this has more than doubled the wholesale price of electricity. Then there is the cost of additional transmission lines to get power from the disperse grid scale wind and solar plants. These have poor utilisation because the capacity factors for wind and solar are so low.
Look at all the additional hardware SA has committed to to get some semblance of reliability in its network – rental of gas turbines to burn diesel fuel; installation of a BB battery; funding to reopen mothballed gas generator and commitment to a very expensive CSP plant. All this hardware has to be paid for and none of it produces low cost power. Their low cost coal fuelled power from Port Augusta and Hazelwood is no longer available.
The laughably stupid element of this is that so-called renewables, in their present guise, and not renewable. It is impossible to produce the components needed for solar and wind generation from power produced by said systems. The only reason it can be done now is that the energy used to manufacture these components come from low cost coal and nuclear generation in China. There is not enough excess energy from the components over their lifetime to enable the system to be replicated when it relies on that energy source. It is an economic DEAD END – so anything but renewable. It is a once off foray into folly.
Solar and wind only make economic sense in stand alone systems off-grid. That can be economic when it avoids the costs of transmission, distribution and retail. It is not economic to supply energy intensive industry from solar or wind.
The real wholesale cost of 100% renewable generation for an on-demand system, under best possible scenario in southern Australia, is $500/MWh at present prices with components produced in China using coal generation. The costs would be an orders of magnitude higher if wind and solar generation were used to manufacture the components. Fundamentally all global resources would go into producing the power generation system and maintaining it. This is more than a windfall for any business associated with power generation. Those business will grow exponentially until they destroy industrialised nations. Look at all the money that SA is throwing at the feet of the renewable gods to get to 50% of their electricity from wind and solar. It goes upon 7-fold from the present level to achieve 100% renewables.
50
Question. The REC’s cost around 9c per kWh to purchase so this gets added on to the basic cost of power from coal.
Yet, the price we pay seems to be more than just an extra 9c so how is the difference accounted for?
22
David, the components of electricity prices are roughly:
Wholesale price 10 cents
Network costs 12 cents
Renewable certificates 8 cents each times 14% share = 1.1 cents
Retail costs 3 cents
Retail price approx 26 cents.
However your bill will typically be split into a service charge of around 85 cents/day plus a usage charge of about 20 cents/Kwhr.
70
Thanks Robber, so if the RECs come in at only 1.1c and the other costs you mention seem unrelated to renewables, I don’t understand why we are paying so much. Are renewables costs incorporated into those other pricing elements?
12
I believe that with the closure of Hazelwood and the increase in gas prices, gas generators now set the incremental price, so wholesale prices have doubled since last year. You can see the price trends in AEMO average tables. Also see my comment at #10 – there are questions about how generators are bidding to maximise their profits, owning a mix of wind, coal and gas generators. With more wind in the system, as Tony has reported on average wind supplies 1500 MW, but it varies from near zero to over 3000 MW. Other generators must ramp up and down to meet total demand, but that means on average they will only run at 50% utilisation. Running any plant at 50% of capacity is not very economic, so they will bid higher prices to get a return.
The other impact that renewables are having is on network costs. Moving from centralised generators to a distributed and variable network must mean more investment to manage the grid, but those costs are hard to extract from the Australian Energy Regulator that receives submissions from the distribution companies and sets network prices.
70
Also the distributed grid networks built to service the widely scattered [ non-] renewable energy farms, both solar and wind, have to be designed and constructed and wired to a standard that is able to handle the rare occurence of the maximum output of the output of those unreliable and unpredictable solar and wind farms.
Even though the wind and solar renewables capacity factor, their average energy production relative to their claimed maximum plated energy output is only the equivalent of 25% to a say 30% of that plated and claimed maximum generation output.
If the grid connections to the renewable energy farms, which the renewable energy scammers don’t have to pay for, we the consumers have to pay instead, were designed and constructed to just take the average load of the renewable energy scamming industry for grid purposes, the cost to the consumer of connecting renewable energy to the grid would be a much smaller proportion of the grid costs we are being forced to pay for today.
As with anything, as you begin to reach the limits of some piece of engineering or technology, the cost of getting those last few percent of perfomances rises at an almost logarithmic rate compared to the actual performance gains.
So it is with grid costs and renewable energy load factors or lack of, for grid designers and builders today.
The only way out of this is to force the renewable energy producers, both legacy and new, to install energy storage systems, paid for entirely by themselves, that will allow them to top up their own energy storage when conditions are finally suited temporarily towards generating some useable energy and release at energy a much lower rate than the rare maximum output of the wind and solar units that their grid connections have to be designed for and constructed to handle .
Even better would be to remove all subsidies and government mandated consumer Renewable Energy tariff transfers from fossil fueled generators to Renewable energy scammers and just let them go broke and get them right out of the way so we could once again have relatively cheap and reliable and always there electricity and power.
———-
I ‘m seriously wondering if the government’s mandating of a transfer of money through the so called generation certificates in this case from fossil fueled base load coal fired generators to another operator in the same industry, the unpredictable, unreliable susbsidy scamming renewable energy industry is actually constitutionally legal.
These payments effectively do not go directly into government coffers as a constitutionally recognised tax and then get paid out of government funds as a constitutionally recognised subsidy to the renewable energy scammers.
In this case, it is as if the government has mandated that every individual and business in Australia has to pay protection money at a government set rate directly to the bikie gangs for protection so as to ensure a crime free public environment, whether such protection was wanted or not.
Of such is our Federal Government in its anti- voter, anti-citizen lawyer dominated conservatives who would argue the abstruse mundanity of the legality of the left or right hand twist of a pretzel and the Shorten’s opposition shadow cabinet with its ten union thugs [ Note I never said EX-union thugs ] as shadow ministers and just one, the eleventh who has actually done work in private enterprise as an auto electician.
40
The wholesale price of electricity has tripled in the last three years. Displacing low cost coal generation with high cost gas generation to accommodate the ups and down of renewables comes at a high cost in the wholesale market. Then there are additional transmission costs through fire proofing transmission lines in fire prone areas and additional lines to cater for remote wind and solar plants. In Victoria at least the distribution cost includes addition of 3+M smart meters in the last 5 years.
Fire proofing means the poles and wires are less likely to cause fires as well as not sustaining as much damage in fires. Some transmission lines have gone from overhead to underground. The actual direct cost of subsidies is minor (as calculated 1.1c/kWh but rising) compared with wholesale price rise of around 7c/kWh and continuing to rise as more low cost coal is displaced by high cost gas.
40
On the cost of distribution I know from public meetings with Ausnet that they now design new residential distribution networks for the potential generation rather than the actual load. The peak solar generation out of a new subdivision can be higher than the peak demand. It means additional voltage control as well to avoid overvoltage conditions.
The only economic use of wind and solar is off grid. If that is not economic then adding it to the grid just increases grid costs.
Australia is working toward an economy that is dominated by power generation, transmission and distribution. All our income and effort will be expended on just producing power for the maintenance of the power industry. The power companies will eventually dwarf the banks in terms of the capital they require and the cost they impose on the nation. Essentially power generation will destroy the country – basically consume all resources.
So-called renewables as we know them are NOT renewable. They can be afforded at the present time because the components are made in China with electricity produced from coal and nuclear. They do not produce enough reliable on-demand supply over their lifetime to be used in their own manufacture. The energy out is actually less than twice the energy needed to produce them meaning more than 50% of electricity production goes into making the components needed to maintain the system. Less than 50% of their output is available for all the other electricity requirements of modern society. That condition is unsustainable.
100
.
EROI [ Energy Returned versus Energy Invested ]
I think the sustainability of an energy system and its ability to supply the energy to run a society and modern civilisation requires a minimum of a five to one [ 5 to 1 ] ratio of energy produced compared to energy needed to build and run the energy generators.
As you suggest renewable energy from cradle ie; mines to grave ie; dismantling and disposing of renewable energy installations runs if lucky at Unity ie; 1 to 1 , it only just if at all supplies enough energy over its lifetime to match the amount of energy required to smelt the metals , make the concrete, run the continious processes to make the fibre composite blades and solar panels m build, operate, maintain and then dismantle and dispose of which makes renewable energy be it wind or solar in all its versions as completely unsustainable as a civilisations power source under any circumstances.
————-
Now this paper is another one the politicians so isolated and ignorant in their political bubbles should read in its entirety BEFORE they provide a single further dollar towards solar energy subsidies.
They won’t read it as they are just too damn arrogant and the all knowing ignorants of the world outside of their tiny political bubbles so they will just get another third rate economist whodue to ignorance of power generation technology at any level would barely be able to recognise a light switch when he saw one to hold another inquiry.
.
Science Direct;2016
.
Energy Return on Energy Invested (ERoEI) for photovoltaic solar systems in regions of moderate insolation; Germany and etc
And there you have it.
Solar energy systems in regions of moderate solar intensity WILL NEVER return the energy that was required to produce those solar sytems with the nergy they generate over their life time.
On these figures in this paper Solar Systems will over their lifetimes only produce about 82% of the energy needed to produce those same solar systems in the first place.
40
Also consider that the traditional business account settlement on time discount is 2.5 per cent.
My latest energy bill offers me 12 per cent for paying on the due date, and I have seen advertisements with up to 22 per cent settlement offered.
This clearly reveals that the operating profit is substantial as no business could afford to offer such high settlement discounts otherwise.
The rip off is of course based on the highest cost generators being the basis for the electricity price to consumers and they are less than 5 per cent of generators.
10
Dennis my new provider is offering 30% discount for pay on time but they have made the prices dearer to start with .
Still gives me cheaper electricity overall though .
00
It can also imply that they are cash-flow constrained, with minimal capital reserves, and small margins.
For everybody’s sake, let us hope that the bottom will not fall out of the financial market, to the point where their creditors run into difficulties, and want their money back.
30
29 Aug: Australian: Graham Richardson: Malcolm Turnbull could use a coal-fired energy policy
Malcolm Turnbull is running out of options as to what issue he might choose to fight the next election. This week he threw away what seemed to me to be his best option. By far the biggest issue in Australian politics today is electricity prices. Neither the Coalition nor Labor has a credible policy on where that electricity will come from, and a frustrated electorate grows angrier by the hour…READ ON
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/graham-richardson/malcolm-turnbull-could-use-a-coalfired-energy-policy/news-story/c0d587d9ecb14ddc3f307aacedb2ce14
30
BBC still hasn’t mentioned Pen Hadow’s latest non-adventure, but they are on a CAGW roll:
AUDIO: BBC 26mins29secs: Roland Pease: Science In Action: Forecasting Hurricane Harvey
Hurricane Harvey has killed at least 31 people so far. Global collaborations enabled scientists to accurately predict Harvey four days before it hit Houston. This is a huge improvement in predictions since hurricane Katrina in 2005. How have these improvements come about and can we expect even better predictions in the future?…
(INTERVIEW WITH MARCUS GURJAHR, ONE OF THE AUTHORS OF THE FOLLOWING NATURE STUDY)
LISTEN FROM 20mins56secs: The PETM was the greatest warming event in Earth’s history. New research reveals that the warming was caused by a large volcanic event. How far can we use the PETM to better our understanding of our current warming event?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cstzrq
30 Aug: Nature: Very large release of mostly volcanic carbon during the Palaeocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum
Authors: Marcus Gutjahr, GEOMAR Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research Kiel, Wischhofstrasse 1–3, 24148 Kiel, Germany,
Andy Ridgwell, Philip F. Sexton, Eleni Anagnostou, Paul N. Pearson, Heiko Pälike, Richard D. Norris, Ellen Thomas & Gavin L. Foster
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v548/n7669/full/nature23646.html?foxtrotcallback=true
00
top of BBC’s Roland Pease’s Twitter page as of posting this:
Twitter: Roland Pease: re-tweeted 2 hrs ago:
Daniel Swain: Record-shattering heat in coastal CA today, inc. monthly & all-time records. 104 marks hottest temp in #SanFrancisco history!! #CAwx #CAheat
1 Sept: RealClimateScience: Tony Heller: Plummeting September 1 Temperatures In The US
https://realclimatescience.com/2017/09/plummeting-september-1-temperatures-in-the-us/
31 Aug: RealClimateScience: Tony Heller: Plummeting August 31 Temperatures In The US
https://realclimatescience.com/2017/08/plummeting-august-31-temperatures-in-the-us/
00
BBC at it again.
BBC interviews Amitav Ghosh, who lives in New York. promos the segment by saying Ghosh has wrapped his brain around “climate change” for years.
the following is only an excerpt from the interview. it omits all the opening remarks.
BBC began with what caused Mumbai flooding: Ghosh answered with one word, “topography”. went on to explain how Mumbai was built on islands, etc.
In this shortened piece, BBC interviewer asks if the floods in India, Sierra Leone, US, provide an opportunity for minds to be re-focused on this issue (CAGW). Ghosh is pessimistic; then goes on to talk about being prepared for floods.
in longer interview, Ghosh talks about how people are still buying coastal properties in Florida despite sea level rise, etc. suggests interested parties don’t want property prices to collapse.
AUDIO: 2mins46secs: 1 Sept: BBC Newshour: Author says Mumbai faces major cyclone risk
Indian writer Amitav Ghosh calls for new thinking in dealing with floods, as climate change heightens the risk of storms and cyclones.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05dx4fy?ocid=socialflow_facebook
Quora: Mumbai was a city of 7 islands but how did the reclamation take place to develop it into the city that it is now?
By 1845, the islands had been merged into one landmass by means of multiple land reclamation projects. The resulting island of Bombay was later merged with the nearby islands of Trombay and Salsette that lay to its North-east and North respectively to form Greater Bombay…MAPS
https://www.quora.com/Mumbai-was-a-city-of-7-islands-but-how-did-the-reclamation-take-place-to-develop-it-into-the-city-that-it-is-now
20
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/aus/summary.shtml
Now we know why they adjust the raw temps the only day it hot to -10.4c was on the 28th at Mt hotham
Enough with the lies, time to give them what they, when everything is reduced to ash we can then rebuild
11
Got you folks beat here in the province of British Columbia, 65 billion in contracts to Independent power producers which includes run of the river plants and wind contributing to rate rise. People tend to ignore those contracts but get their knickers in a knot over a 9 billion dollar hydro plant required to back up IPP generation. The lucrative IPPs consist of government supporters and ex government utility managers.
10
Most Australians would be shocked if handed a complete list of UN objectives and agenda being actioned by our federal, state and local governments with no reference to voters, not even an explanation.
Local government supported by state and federal government is, for example, cooperating on “sustainability” as Agenda 21 demands. Now Agenda 30.
Consider the offshore Marine Parks the last Labor Government established, paying off most fishing trawler business owners and taking their fishing licences. And now Australia imports much more seafood as a result of the ban on commercial fishing in Marine Parks of which there are many around our coastline.
People on the land have to face many impositions, paying for natural rainwater stored in on farm dams, one example. Not being permitted to clear fire hazard material on the ground, I think 35 per cent per annum is the maximum permitted for clearing.
The unelected faceless politicians who push socialism from their UN headquarters and associated organisations effectively dictate to compliant governments in sovereign nations … and POTUS Trump is trying to deal with this. We need a strong leader here.
61
don’t politicize CAGW!
1 Sept: NewYorkUpstate: Report: Politics may shape what NY kids learn about climate change
By James T. Mulder
ALBANY, N.Y. — What New York state students learn about climate change when they return to classrooms this month may hinge on their teacher’s political views more than science, according to a report by the New York School Boards Association.
In a report (LINK) examining research about climate change education, the association advises teachers to present climate change data to students without politicizing it…
New learning standards being rolled out this year in New York state include climate change and the contribution of human activities to global warming…
A survey conducted by the association found 70 percent of school board members across the state believe public schools should be teaching students about climate change. The survey shows 16 percent of school board members oppose climate change instruction in public schools, while 14 percent are unsure.
The report cited a national survey that found 33 percent of teachers teach that climate change occurs due to natural, not human-made, occurrences in nature. “Conservative political identity was the strongest indicator that a teacher would suggest that climate change may be rooted in natural rather than human causes,” the study found.
“When it comes to teaching about climate change, it certainly appears that politics and economics, not science, are driving the debate,” NYSSBA Executive Director Timothy G. Kremer said in a prepared statement.
http://www.newyorkupstate.com/news/2017/09/report_politics_may_shape_what_ny_kids_learn_about_climate_change.html
PDF: 16 pages: Aug 2017: New York State School Board Association: When Politics Enters the Classroom:
Teaching Climate Change in Schools
This NYSSBA research report was researched and written by Gayle Simidian, Ed.D., research analyst. It was edited by David Albert, director of communications, marketing, and research; Barbara Bradley, deputy director of online communications and project planning; Cathy Woodruff, senior writer; Paul Heiser, senior research analyst and Jeffrey S. Handelman, deputy director of administration…
“ I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris.”
– President Donald J. Trump, June 1, 2017
From the coal mines to the classroom, climate science is a divisive topic…
In addition to the president, other political and business leaders, such as Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt, have dismissed the importance of climate science. Yet, aside from some criticisms, the overwhelming majority of climate scientists believe the earth’s rising temperature is predominantly created by human activity…
http://www.nyssba.org/clientuploads/nyssba_pdf/report-teaching-climate-change-08312017.pdf
10
don’t politicise it, Reuters!
1 Sept: Reuters: Pope, Orthodox leader make climate change appeal to ‘heal wounded creation’
Reporting by Isla Binnie; Editing by Hugh Lawson
VATICAN CITY – Pope Francis and Orthodox Christian leader Patriarch Bartholomew called on Friday for a collective response from world leaders to climate change, saying the planet was deteriorating and vulnerable people were the first to be affected.
The appeal comes three months after U.S. President Donald Trump withdrew from a global agreement, struck in Paris, to limit greenhouse gas emissions.
“We urgently appeal to those in positions of social and economic, as well as political and cultural, responsibility to hear the cry of the earth and to attend to the needs of the marginalized,” Francis and Bartholomew said in a joint statement.
“Above all”, the leaders of the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics and up to 300 million Orthodox Christians asked for a response “to the plea of millions and support (for) the consensus of the world for the healing of our wounded creation.” …
The joint message was not addressed to any specific world leaders. Many were dismayed when the U.S. backed out of the Paris accord, a decision a senior Vatican official later called “a disaster”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-climatechange/pope-orthodox-leader-make-climate-change-appeal-to-heal-wounded-creation-idUSKCN1BC43O
00
don’t politicise it, CNN:
1 Sept: CNN: (Bernie) Sanders: It’s ‘pretty dumb’ not to ask about climate change after Harvey
By Sophie Tatum
Democratic Sen. Bernie Sanders said Thursday that the unprecedented rainfall and resulting flooding from Hurricane Harvey should spark a discussion about climate change.
“I think it is pretty dumb not to ask some hard questions about why more rain is now falling, and has fallen in the Houston area, as I understand it, than any time that people can have measured,” Sanders told CNN’s Chris Cuomo…
“Is it related to climate change? Is some of the intensity and the magnitude of this related to Climate change? I think most scientists believe it is,” Sanders said. “The right question to be asking is ‘what does this mean for the future?'”…
On Wednesday night, Cuomo spoke with Trump administration official Kellyanne Conway and asked whether President Donald Trump’s administration would be open to a conversation about the role climate change could have played in the storm.
“Chris, we’re trying to help the people whose lives are literally underwater, and you want to have a conversation about climate change?” Conway responded…
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/31/politics/bernie-sanders-climate-change-harvey-cnn-tv/index.html
29 Aug; Updated 1 Sept: CNN: Big oil, Abbott must pay a price in recovery
by Jeffrey Sachs
Editor’s Note: Jeffrey Sachs is a professor and director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University.
It’s important to politicize Hurricane Harvey…
Once the immediate crisis ends, the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, should resign with an apology to his state and his country. Then the Texas delegation in Congress should make a public confession. They have lied to their constituents for too long, expecting the rest of America to keep bailing them out…
Hurricane Harvey was a foreseeable disaster. Indeed, a massive hurricane strike on Houston, followed by massive flooding, was widely anticipated.
But Houston is an oil town, and the American oil industry has been enemy No. 1 of climate truth and climate preparedness…
On his watch, Texas supported withdrawal from the Paris Climate Agreement…
In 2015, Inside Climate News wrote that “as weather extremes like flooding batter Texas, its refusal to prepare for an even more volatile climate leaves residents at risk, experts say.”…
Gov. Abbott, ***we would like to bid you a political adieu…
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/29/opinions/hurricane-harvey-abbott-needs-to-resign-sachs/index.html
***who is “we”, Jeffrey?
00
2 Sept: Australian: Graham Lloyd: Tony Abbott to lecture leading climate-change sceptic think tank
Former prime minister Tony Abbott will give the annual lecture to one of the world’s leading climate change sceptic think tanks, the Global Warming Policy Foundation in London.
The title of Mr Abbott’s address will be “Daring to doubt”.
The invitation-only lecture will be held at the Institution of Mechanical Engineers in Birdcage Walk, London, on October 9…
The foundation is one of the world’s most active groups promoting debate about the state of climate change science.
It republishes articles and material both supportive and against the mainstream science view and commissions research on climate change-related issues.
The foundation is funded by private donations and does not accept gifts from energy companies or anyone with a significant interest in an energy company.
Mr Abbott’s spokeswoman said the trip would be privately funded by the foundation
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/tony-abbott-to-lecture-leading-climatechange-sceptic-think-tank/news-story/ce897ce09992d942256245dd08edf0fd
00
read both:
2 Sept: UK Spectator: Resilience, not devastation, is the real story of the Texas floods
Houston’s response to Hurricane Harvey is a lesson for the world
by Rupert Darwall and Fraser Nelson
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/resilience-not-devastation-is-the-real-story-of-the-texas-floods/
31 Aug: NYT: Bret Stephens: Hurricanes, Climate and the Capitalist Offset
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/31/opinion/hurricanes-climate-capitalists-wealth-.html?mcubz=0
00
not sure BBC is telling the full story:
2 Sept: BBC: Solar power deal will lower social tenants’ energy bills
Solar panels are to be installed in 800,000 low-income homes across England and Wales over the next five years, as part of a new government scheme.
The Dutch firm, Maas Capital is investing £160m in the project.
The panels, which will be free to tenants, are expected to cut hundreds of pounds from energy bills, according to the firm Solarplicity…
Speaking at the site, International Trade minister Greg Hands said: “This initial £160m capital expenditure programme will deliver massive benefits to some of the UK’s poorest households.
“As well as creating 1,000 jobs and delivering cheaper energy bills for up to 800,000 homes, it shows yet another vote of confidence in the UK as a place to invest and do business.”
The firm providing the panels, Solarplicity, will work with more than 40 social landlords, including local authorities across England and Wales…
Julian Bell, leader of Ealing Council welcomed the scheme, but said its own programme of installing solar panels had been curtailed after the government reduced the feed-in tariffs that offered a return on electricity generated from small scale energy schemes.
“The business case didn’t quite add-up when the government made changes to subsidies and feed-in tariffs for sustainable energy,” he said…
The chief executive of Solarplicity, David Elbourne, said the price of solar panels had fallen enough so that government subsidies were no longer essential…READ ON
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41122433
2 Sept: EnergyVoice: 8000,000 social housing homes to be fitted with solar panels
Around 100,000 households will receive panels in the next 18 months, reducing their energy bills by an average of £240 a year.
Many of the jobs to install and maintain the panels will go to veterans from the armed forces…
David Elbourne, chief executive of Solarplicity, said: “Today’s announcement is a reflection of our exciting growth in the energy market, backed by international capital investment through the Department for International Trade.”
https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/149316/8000000-social-housing-homes-fitted-solar-panels/
btw the New York State School Board Association report – When Politics Enters the Classroom: Teaching Climate Change in Schools” –
unsurprisingly brings in wind and solar in the latter part of the report.
00
***now it’s a billion quid.
2 Sept: Daily Mail: Press Association: Solar panels installation on social housing to bring more than 1,000 jobs
Over 1,000 new jobs are to be created under a ***£1 billion programme to install solar panels on social housing across England and Wales.
The Government welcomed £160 million of capital spending by Dutch firm Maas Capital, which will help fund solar panels from UK company Solarplicity…
Around 100,000 households will receive panels in the next 18 months, reducing their energy bills by an average of £240 a year…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-4846114/Solar-panels-installation-social-housing-bring-1-000-jobs.html
more detail:
28 Jun: SpecificationOnline: Solarplicity launches ground-breaking solar initiative, and allied procurement framework
The initiative sees Solarplicity partnering with social housing providers to create a Community Energy Scheme, providing significant and long-term guaranteed discounts to their tenant’s energy bills. Participants in the community energy scheme receive free LED light bulbs, a smart meter and have solar PV installed (where the property is suitable).
Having secured European funding post Brexit decision from Maas Capital, a subsidiary of ABN AMRO Bank, Solarplicity is now the only energy provider in England and Wales that can offer these benefits to both solar and non-solar tenants within social housing. The scheme is expected to reach 50,000 households in the next twelve months and 800,000 homes within five years, at which stage these tenants are forecast to save up to £200 million a year through the scheme.
Individual tenants are forecast to save £240.00 a year on average* on their energy bills. Pricing is clear and simple, with no standing charges and only one rate for 100% renewable energy, irrespective of the payment method used – whether direct debit, or pay-as-you-go.
The initiative is the result of a detailed procurement process between Solarplicity and Alliance Homes, a social housing provider active in procurement activities for the social sector. The framework agreement enables more than 40 social landlords and 500,000 households to participate. Landlords share in the profits of the scheme, which facilitates the efficient implementation of solar, reducing the time and cost of rollout…
https://specificationonline.co.uk/articles/2017-06-28/solarplicity/solarplicity-launches-ground-breaking-solar-initiative-and-allied-procurement-framework
00
Hi Pat;
I decided out of curiosity to go looking at that “Solarplicity” site you listed above.
Their web site is remarkably light on hard details and factual information.
Lots of very large and suposedly pretty pictures but stuff all in the way of information.
All their claims just seem to be too good to be true , “truth” being a disposable word for these types of solar panel shonkers which I strongly suspect is the case here after looking over, not actually reading much of any substance as there wasn’t much to read on their web site.
Their modus operandi might be similar to a previous UK scam where the solar panel scammers installed solar panels on your roof, gave you what seemed to be a nice cut in your power bills and pocketed the rest of the very lucrative funds they scammed from the government.
All good until you wanted to shift house or sell or do some renovations and etc.
Then numerous signers of these contracts discovered they couldn’t do a damn thing to their own houses they had sometimes owned for decades, including selling, leasing and renovations and etc without getting permission in writing from the company that owned the solar panels on their own roofs on their own homes as per contract they had signed maybe years previously.
If that solar panel scammer company didn’t like what you were doing or proposed to do to your very own home then no deal and if you persisted you finished up in court facing some highly paid and rather scruples free lawyers.
31
Getting something for free is often the most expensive thing you can buy. Especially with strings attached.
Once again: There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone always receives the bill and has to pay. Very often it is the person who ate the free lunch.
10
ROM –
I have similar feelings about Solarplicity. not much info on them to be found, but will try to check them out tomorrow.
if households will only save 20 quid a month, it sounds like they will be paying money to Solarplicity & whichever local authorities that play along.
10
ROM
thought i’d at least put up some twitter stuff tonite. so appropriate BBC were all over this:
former England rugby (union) player, Austin Healey (lol) is a director of Solarplicity:
Twitter: Austin Healey
re-tweeted:
Solarplicity: https://t.co/47chmP1RHX
A word on BBC Radio 5 from our CEO, David Elbourne regarding yesterday’s £160 million solar deal. Play from 1:03:42
6hrs ago: re-tweeted:
Solarplicity: We’ve teamed up with Minister @GregHands to help tenants save up to £192m a year in energy bills https://goo.gl/LRrbGh
4hrs ago: Great news for those in fuel poverty and those who simply want to reduce their energy bills
Solarplicity: BBC News were there covering the event in Ealing yesterday. Shows just how big this is for solar and energy in general in the UK.
https://twitter.com/IamAustinHealey
u can go to Solarplicity’s Twitter page as well from above. certainly doesn’t inspire confidence in them to installers panels on 800,000 houses, etc.
i like this reply on the BBC News Twitter feed linked from above. some of the other comments are also worth noting, such as why only social housing, why not for the working poor? suspicions about how you only save 20 quid a month, etc:
Twitter: BBC News:…..(Solarplicity story)
reply: Pigeons nest under the panels on the roof,my neighbour has these and it’s ruined his life..
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/903755003562745857
00
I am not a fan of wind turbines and their highly intermittent power supply!
Today, in Victoria, we have high winds. Where I am, it is gusting between 29 and 37 kph. According to the sites I have visited, this should be the ideal wind speed to obtain maximum output.
In Vic, we have just over 1700 MW of installed wind capacity. So given our windy conditions, we should be getting a pretty big boost from these behemoths! Shouldn’t we? I mean, that’s what they designed to do, create energy from the wind. And if the wind is in the optimal speed range, then maximum power baby!
Oh, I’m so naive, aren’t I!
The AEMO are reporting an output from the windmills @ 625 MW! Wow! Is that all? Where is all that life changing power?
The Aneroid site is a bit more optimistic, with ~70% output, or around ~980 MW.
That discrepancy between the AEMO and Aneroid is a bit of a concern!
So anyway, I’m thinking, well, I don’t know how the wind is blowing in the rest of the state, so I’ll look at a local windfarm, Waubra. Ok, output has creeped up in the last hour or two, from just over 70%, to 90%. So maybe I’m being a bit hasty? But even so, for a windy day, I would say output is still meagre, and if look at individual windfarms, erratic!
So, my take on all this, is that even with so called ideal conditions?, we will never see these things produce the power that is so often spruiked by those who insist we spear them in the ground everywhere!
50
I am not a fan of wind turbines ????
🙂
60
We all understand how the “greenies” and the lefties want renewables eventually to supply most of not all of our power needs. They are hoping very soon we can use some type of battery storage to overcome the “base load” issue, with many say it can be done now. Of course it can be done if cost was not an issue but reality bites and it is a major issue, and will remain so for a long time. Meanwhile the rest of the world is building hundreds of new coal fired power stations, many of which are the super critical type. This means we are alone, which if not changed will destroy our economy. I can only come to one conclusion. Our leaders are a danger to our country’s future and so they must be replaced ASAP before it’s too late. We need a leader who will immediately start building new generation coal fired power stations. Anything less will spell the end for Australia.
40
I think we have a short window to rout both labor and liberals if they don’t take action to lower power bills by abolishing their nonsense carbon tax.
People should write to local members ( and opposition ) and tell them if they don’t lower power bills by year end, they are gone at the next election, with no exception.
That should focus their little minds.
40
Really: (my bolding here)
18000MW for twenty four hours of every day.
I would seriously like to see that battery.
Tony.
70
Yes that would be impressive..432 GWh (minimum ) of battery capacity.!
…but also totally impossible fro several reasons, not least of which would be the worlds production capacity of suitable battery cells which currently totals less than 100GWh per year ( most of which os already committed to other uses)
Then there is the trivial matter of the cost at approx $350 m /GWh. ==$150+ billion
…and then we may want to factor that up a few times to allow for bad weather events !
00
Chinese-processed lithium (the “new gasoline” according to Goldman Sachs, who should know) for mega-batteries, imported diesel (the old gasoline, from all your favourite hot spots) to supplement feeble wind power…the clear goal of the globo-greens is to chew up expensive foreign-sourced resources and risk international tensions to get those resources to waste. Otherwise no fun, no challenge.
The trouble with mining and using our own huge stocks of coal, gas and uranium is that it’s too safe, too obvious and, frankly, rather dull. Not character-forming.
30
ESPN 11.30am Sept 1 said it was 63F at the tennis, way below the usual temps in the 80s and 90s.
1 Sept: Weather Channel: First Week of Meteorological Fall Will Live Up to Its Name as Chilly Temperatures Engulf Eastern, Southern U.S.
By Brian Donegan
Sept. 1 marks the beginning of meteorological fall, which runs until Nov. 30, and a chilly airmass will be ushered in across the East and South along with the change in season…
A cold front swept through parts of the Midwest and Northeast on Thursday, and now some of the coolest temperatures since last spring will be possible into Saturday in some locations. Temperatures are expected to be 10 to 25 degrees below average in a broad swath from the Mississippi Valley to the mid-Atlantic and Northeast…
In fact, several record lows have already been set. On Friday morning, record lows were set in Alpena, Michigan (36 degrees – tied); Watertown, New York (37 degrees – tied); Flint, Michigan (39 degrees); Binghamton, New York (42 degrees); Syracuse, New York (42 degrees – tied); Poughkeepsie, New York (43 degrees) and Bridgeport, Connecticut (52 degrees – tied).
On Saturday morning additional record lows were broken, including, Glens Falls, New York (34 degrees); Albany (38 degrees); Binghamton, New York (39 degrees – tied); Poughkeepsie (41 degrees – tied); Hartford, Connecticut (42 degrees) and Providence, Rhode Island (46 degrees).
Frost advisories were even issued in some spots Friday and Saturday morning, where some patchy frost was observed.
A few record-cold high temperatures have also been observed. On Friday the following cities set new records for coolest high temperature for the date: Dayton, Ohio (59 degrees), Columbus, Ohio (62 degrees), Pittsburgh (63 degrees) and Watertown, New York (64 degrees).
Many places will likely get stuck in the 60s for highs Saturday, so it may be time to dig out your light jacket or sweatshirt, even if you are outside during the warmest time of the afternoon. A few spots in northern New England may even be stuck in the 60s into Sunday afternoon.
Several locations in the mid-Atlantic could threaten record-cold highs Saturday afternoon, including Philadelphia and Baltimore.
Next week
Temperatures will return closer to average early next week before another cold front sweeps through much of the East and South Tuesday into Wednesday…
Lows should dip into the 50s as far south as the mid-South region mid- to late next week. In the upper Mississippi Valley and upper Great Lakes, a few spots may fall into the 30s and 40s. The Southeast and Gulf Coast will likely hold in the 60s to near 70 degrees for lows.
https://weather.com/forecast/regional/news/meteorological-fall-chilly-temperatures-eastern-southern-us-september-2017
00