JoNova
A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).
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Statistics
IEA says (in the WSJ, and elsewhere):
The World Will Be Swimming in Excess Oil by End of This Decade,
spare pumping capacity to rise as demand growth wanes and supplies surge – demand to peak in 2029
150
In the meantime there is a constant stream of coal trains heading in to drop off Hunter coal at the port in Novocastria. The loaded wagons stretch back nearly two kilometers and you wonder at the magnitude of this unending drama.
Two days ago I drove past mountains of coal piled neatly on Kooragang waiting to be scooped onto the conveyor belt and across to the loaders.
Beautiful, glistening, black coal: our regions lifeblood and our politicians deny it’s happening because ruinables have replaced it.
Not quite.
Oops, there goes the helicopter again to collect the pilot from the latest coal shipment that just cleared Nobbys head.
330
So our Federal and State governments which legally trying to stop Australian citizens from using coal, oil or gas are being funded by coal and iron ore exports to China? This is dishonest beyond hypocrisy, beyond wrong, beyond politics. In a time of war it would be called treachery. What is wrong with our public discourse and this global warming story that we Australians are not allowed use our largest exports?
380
Look up the Navigation Acts Tried and tested to fill the coffers.
20
So, when the Yanks want to give China a hard time those high-speed conveyors will suffer mysterious explosions and completely self-destruct, stopping China getting coal and we will just be collateral damage, like Germany!
10
Big production from a small harbour.
How fast do their conveyors run?
I have been to the top of the whet silos there, and too, are big.
I was amazed by the speed of their conveyor belts. Could it be 80 km/h? Just guessing.
90
100 ‘hoppers’ with each hopper holding 100 tonnes of coal, so ten thousand tonnes of coal hauled by four or five Diesel Electric locomotives.
10,000 tonnes of coal.
You know, what a typical 2000MW large scale coal fired power plant consumes in around fifteen hours at ‘full whack’.
Oh ….. that’s the ancient plants we have here in Australia.
The newer UltraSuperCritical plants consume much less coal.
Tony.
130
Tony,
Ref a post yesterday regarding converting existing coal plants to HELE tech,..
Do you have any estimates of the cost for such a conversion, reusing existing infrastructure..coal supply, Steam turbines, generators , etc etc ?
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/06/the-climate-wars-ignited-again-in-australia-and-labors-best-argument-is-just-scorn-and-derision/#comment-2773642
10
Honestly, I would really only be guessing. (and seriously, even all of those myriad of costings you see these days are all of them really only guesses as well)
The really interesting point is that it was back around 2011/12 or so when I first started looking at UltraSuperCritical. (USC) That was tentative at first because it seemed too good to be true that ….. ‘new’ technology coal fired power plants would burn such lesser amounts of coal.
What happened here was that the monsters of the business, the big manufacturers were the ones doing all the research and development, especially like GE. While they were spending (literally) hundreds of millions advancing the technology, while all around them, people considered them as ‘stranded assets’ because they were still using coal, and yet they still kept going, and still are.
Now, this was when China became seriously involved, and they opened some of their first USC plants back around 2008, so they’ve been in operation now for 16 years.
What the Chinese did was to commission GE to construct the first couple, on the proviso that from then on, the Chinese themselves would do it all and control it all, and GE was happy with that. (Incidentally, the Chinese do all their power plants like this, coal, gas, hydro, wind, solar with the biggies doing all the R and D ad the first builds, and then the Chinese taking it all over)
I saw some costings on how much these plants were costing to construct in China, and rather than just quote costs verbatim, I treated it like all I did with everything in the power generation ‘space’ I was looking at, (suspiciously, always thinking it was all too good to be true, because no one other than me, I thought, was actually finding stuff like all of this, so I didn’t believe my own eyes) I waited some time, and kept checking and checking, and translating pages, and looking at so many different word structures in search engines to cross check, before actually writing it down somewhere and committing to it.
Now look, even I know that labor costs and everything in China would be way way cheaper than here in Australia, but the Chinese were doing it for around the equivalent of ONE Billion in AUD. That was for a two Unit plant with each Unit of (around) 1000MW.
That was back then, and for a few years afterwards, say up to around 2015/16, and then I stopped looking at costings, realising that trying to compare costs in China to here in Australia was pretty futile really.
However, what I will say is this.
A new technology USC coal fired power plant here in Australia would be waaaaaay less costly than ANY nuclear power plant, and on a dollar basis per generated power in GWH way cheaper than ANY renewable as well.
Joanne allowed me a Guest Post on USC way back in March 2013 at this link.
The future of coal fired power is actually roaring ahead in fact, and I mention it at a Post at my own home site on Steam H at this link from back in June of 2021.
Costings are based (real loosely) on who you speak to. I’d be only guessing as well ….. just like all of them in fact.
I found actual Upgrade approved proposals dated 2008 to build new USC plants, one alongside Bayswater and also one at the Mt. Piper Plant as well, both similar proposals, ready to go, everything done and approved in fact, and then the CO2 politics stepped in. Both of them were at existing plants so at ‘brown field’ sites.
Tony.
90
I’m not sure that coal would be hugely cheaper than say gas or nuclear. The figures I have, admittedly put together by a SMR nuclear group, show that when comparing costs of the full lifetime of the SMR nuclear, USC coal is $4800/kW, CCGT gas $4112 and SMR nuclear $5596. For renewables, solar $14,882 and wind $12372. I tend to group coal, gas and nuclear as having similar costs when comparing them to renewables.
20
Graeme4,
The EIA report has coal at $3660/kW, Nuclear at $5950,
..but CCGT gas at $978/kW ?
….and wind or solar both around $2000/kWh ??
(I suspect no storage cost !)
Even allowing for poor assumptions , it would seem gas CCGT is the cheapest option by some margin.
10
Hi Chad, I would suspect that the cost of fracked gas in the U.S. is a lot cheaper than Aussie gas. The gas price I quoted was calculated before eastern gas prices increased.
Are the EIA costs USD? I’m using AUD.
The large-scale solar price starts off very cheap at $1100/kW.
Adjusted for CF, it quintuples to $5500. (Not sure what CF they used, but if they had used Tony’s figure of 16.26%, and assuming nuclear was 90%, adjustment should have ended up at $6088. No matter.)
Next adjustment is for lifetime. This increases its cost to $13,200.
Final adjustment is for firming to $14,882. Don’t know how many hours of firming was used, but think that it wasn’t anywhere near enough.
So it looks like even this high cost is still well under the correct cost.
00
Sorry, Chad, I missed this bit:
In the same manner as a comment from some Posts back, where I mentioned an argument I had with a wind supporter who mentioned that at the end of life for an industrial wind plant, they could just put new turbines on top of the existing towers, something which just cannot be done, the same principle applies for coal fired plants.
Now, whilst they can construct them at a brown field site, as I mentioned for the Upgrades at Bayswater and Mt. Piper, they would be a totally new construction, with nothing used from the existing plant.
Now, in China however, they are constructing new coal fired plants hand over fist, still, and the construction rate has not changed since I first mentioned in back in 2008. As happened in the U.S. during the coal fired plant construction ‘boom’ of the late 50so through to the 80s, they built large 2000MW+ plants, four Unit plants (660MW x four Units) and shut down all the ‘tiddlers’, those really early tech old and tiny plants, most around 2MW to 10MW and up to 50MW to 100MW, plants when constructed considered as huge.
They did the same in China as this USC boom started back in 2008.
However, Engineers in China found a way to Upgrade existing larger Units (340MW up to 500MW) retrofitting them to USC standard, and they are actively doing this to those larger Units. I also wrote this at a Post at this link, starting half way down the text.
For those who blindly think coal fired power has gone the way of the Dodo, that is absolutely so wrong.
Incidentally, it took me a lot of time, again taking my heart in my hands to commit, when I fist mentioned in my original series in 2008 that China was constructing new coal fired plants at the rate of two every week to ten days, and would be for many years to come. Oh how I was laughed at whenever I mentioned that, and they’re still going at that rate even now.
Tony.
90
Thanks Tony,..
But to be clear, why could they not reuse the existing infrastructure….coal storage and handling, Turbines and generators , cooling services ,etc onwards through to the HV distribution facilities ?
Obviously overhauls ,maintenance , upgrades,etc would be essential, But the “knock down and rebuild” approach seems extreeme for a currently operating power plant ?
30
I think Tony said, and it would fit my thoughts, that the existing power station would be taken back to “bedrock”. The existing HV transmission lines may be a saving but may need to be upgraded to a higher Voltage which means bigger towers. Roads, water and township would be a bonus.
10
Yes but, he also said,..(and linked to the details)’…that the Chinese have done these retrofit/upgrades to USC spec without the “back to bedrock” approach for a cost of $50 million per unit ? ( likely $100m+ now ?)
So why not in Au ?…
….and im sure its not because we are smarter than the Chinese !
20
I doubt that any wind installation would ever just replace old turbines with new. The tendency seems to be to use larger turbines, so these would require totally different towers and tower spacing. I can see the concrete bases just being covered up and new larger ones put in.
10
I think you will find it is not uncommon to replace damaged wind turbine units with new/refurbished “pods” in current operating wind farms.
But as you say, for older , superceeded technology, end of life, wind farm upgrades, then the new technology would not be compatible with the old towers and foundations etc
10
Hi Chad, I was only thinking about an entirely new system. I can understand replacing failed units with similar turbines.
00
How else to make people switch to electric – reduce safety regulation compliance burden… what could go wrong?
(In the UK, vehicles need to have a Ministry of Transport (MOT) inspection annually, not just at transfer of ownership).
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/new-wild-west-road-rules-9331412
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EV for thee but not for me…. https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/eu-impose-tariffs-high-48-chinese-electric-vehicles
00
Demand growth wanes? And yet each AI centre is supposed to demand as much as New York City, and Microsoft, Google and Open AI each plan to build one, as well as presumably, nearly every country on earth.
60
This puzzles me – ‘SMART’ to save energy seems to put energy use into things that don’t use a lot of energy… When we had to often run off back up battery / generator, we got the oldest TV possible – big, heavy and huge back – flat screens would not work on our home-set up. People who are a lot smarter than me also seem challenged …. https://www.construction-physics.com/p/how-to-build-an-ai-data-center J
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Analogue v Digital technology?
20
Leo,
I don’t know about ‘New York City’ … but lots of power.
And truly reliable Power, too.
Not dependent on passing breezes or sunshine without clouds. Or – shock, horror – night-time!
West of London it seems that there is talk about data centres [plural] – but houses [where people might live] can’t get electricity connexions for ‘a decade’!
And in the UK there appears [Labour, Conservative, Leb Dim, etc.] to be no consideration giving to actually generating the reliable power needed.
‘Green’ – lots of that!
‘Clean’ – yes – there in spade-loads.
‘Reliable’ – ahhhh … um, not so much.
I may not be dead before we get back to the 18th Century – but I wll probably wish I was!
Auto
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https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/afghanistans-taliban-reports-80-million-crude-oil-sales-10-days
50
“The United States and China have adopted very different diplomatic approaches toward Afghanistan. Whereas Beijing has chosen the investment/security cooperation route, the U.S. remains the leading humanitarian donor to Afghanistan, providing more than $2 billion in humanitarian assistance since the Taliban takeover.”
Give a man a fish, you’ll have to feed him all his life. Invest in teaching him to fish, you only do it once.
The Yanks had 20years there, what did they do?
00
Didn’t they leave about USD $70,000 million worth of ‘state of the art’ kit behind when they pulled out?
In August 2021.
Obviously all Orange Man Bad’s fault, as was the terrible incident where a teenager got a zit, plainly.
And foot-rot in certain goats.
And the kit, obviously, was of no use to China or Russia …
Auto
00
Names of other possible locations also mentioned.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13520391/Lithgow-nuclear-power-plant-coalition-federal-election.html
Let the fun begin!
70
CO2 Lover,
You’d have to be pretty naive to think that article was anything other than clickbait.
From the article:
No cat; no bag; pure hype.
10
As I live up the road it looks like I’ll be voting Labor.
A mini nuclear power plant would be better placed at Jervis Bat.
06
“A mini nuclear power plant would be better placed at Jervis Bat.”
Canberra would be the place!
Also in there-
“Fit and healthy Aussie TikTok boss (38) diagnosed with stage-four cancer after noticing an odd symptom following half-marathon”
Young, fit and healthy. Poor sod- didn’t say if he was vaxxed or not.
10
“Made in Australia” Hydrogen Electrolysers for the next election? At say double the cost of those made in the US and Europe?
Just what is needed to make Australia a Renewable Energy Powerhouse with the help of Twiggy Forrest!
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/06/11/updated-hydrogen-costings/
90
Watch the price of platinum go through the roof as it’s consumed for green (sic) hydrogen electrolysers.
https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/electrolysers/bottleneck-hydrogen-electrolysers-could-require-more-of-the-worlds-platinum-reserves-than-previously-thought/2-1-1511811
20
“How we know the sun changes the climate. III: Theories.” by Javier Vinos on Dr. Judith Curry’s blog.
In explanation of why the UN’s IPCC discounts solar effects, Javier remarks in the comments:
“It is difficult to get an organization to find something when its budget depends on not finding it.”
https://judithcurry.com/2024/06/11/how-we-know-the-sun-changes-the-climate-iii-theories/
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The very truth of the matter!
140
Heating the Oceans releases more CO2 into the Atmosphere. Nice.
80
But, but … but …
Didn’t the Greta-Pixy swear it was Exxon, and Shell and BP and, oh, ChevTex, & Statoil [Equinor, so they’re fine with that name!] – because they were ‘evil’ – errr.
Weren’t they?
Providing energy and products we use – and need! To support 8.1 billion people, all wanting good times!
Ahhh
The Greta-Pixy has a Doctorate in Divinity – so she believes.
Even if it was an Honorary Doctorate ….
Belief, you see
Autp
70
Javier Vinós:
Vinós lays out a comprehensive case; this is Part 3 and presentation of his theory.
Unfortunately it takes screeds to explain but CO2-centrics can’t get past a few inane talking points of their own. They have either willfully switched off completely or given up due to sheer intellectual fatigue long before comprehension sets in.
I was reminded of this on Sunday – see next comment.
10
An example of a CO2-centric’s response-by-outdated-talking-point:
1) No, they didn’t prove anything in respect to greenhouses where CO2 levels are elevated to improve yield – not to increase temperature.
2) No, they didn’t prove anything in respect to the planetary atmosphere which is a massive open system – not a tiny enclosed flask.
3) Yes, it is time to move on. Simon got that right. It is beyond time to move on to a theory or theories that comprehensively explain multiple phenomena e.g. Vinós:
These points expanded next.
50
Vinós:
The solar part of the Winter Gatekeeper theory provides an explanation for several questions and solar-climate related phenomena, some of them not properly explained before.
1) It explains the mismatch between the small change in solar energy and the resulting climate effect. The change in solar energy only provides the signal, like the finger pushing the button on an elevator. The energy to change the climate is provided by planetary waves, which carry very large amounts of energy and act on sensitive parts of the climate.
2) It explains the lack of cause-and-effect correlation claimed by NASA and the IPCC. It is a non-linear process that cannot be required to have a linear correlation.
3) It explains the recent warming of the Arctic, the timing of which cannot be explained by CO₂ or global warming.
4) It explains the recent increase in cold winters in the Northern Hemisphere that scientists cannot adequately explain.
5) It explains changes in the Earth’s rotation due to the Sun that no one has been able to explain. Changes in atmospheric circulation induced by the Sun are what alter the angular momentum responsible for variations in the Earth’s rotation.
6) It explains the cumulative effect of changes in solar activity on climate. Why grand solar minimums have such a large effect, proportional to their duration. Low activity alters the energy balance by increasing emissions throughout the duration of the grand minimum, progressively reducing the energy of the climate system and causing the effects to become larger and global over time.
7) It explains the greater impact of solar-induced climate change on the Northern Hemisphere, as it affects the heat transported to the Arctic. The Antarctic polar vortex is much stronger and less sensitive to solar forcing. This is why the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, caused by solar forcing, were much more pronounced in the Northern Hemisphere.
8) It also explains a significant part of the 20th century warming. The 70 years of grand solar maximum in that century caused the planet to increase its energy and warm up.
60
>2) No, they [Fourier, Foote, Tyndall, and Arrhenius] didn’t prove anything in respect to the planetary atmosphere which is a massive open system – not a tiny enclosed flask.
I should have added:
2b) No, they didn’t prove anything in respect to polar regions where the “greenhouse effect” is extremely small due to lack of H2O in the air whether gas or liquid phase.
Not only didn’t Fourier, Foote, Tyndall, and Arrhenius prove anything in respect to the polar regions, the work they did is completely irrelevant to the poles in respect to CO2.
It is H20 that determines the “greenhouse effect” – not CO2.
30
>Vinós – “the greenhouse effect in the polar regions is extremely small”
Or negative:
Unmasking the negative greenhouse effect over the Antarctic Plateau
Sejas, Taylor, and Cai (2018)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-018-0031-y
And,
Infrared Radiative Effects of Increasing CO2 and CH4 on the Atmosphere in Antarctica Compared to the Arctic
Notholt, Schmithüsen, Buschmann, Kleidon (2024)
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2023GL105600
More on these two papers and an important interaction next.
10
They don’t say explicitly but Notholt el al found ZERO warming in Antarctica as a result of “Radiative Effects of Increasing CO2”.
In their Introduction Northolt et al say this:
A painful extraction but the concession came out eventually.
20
Vinós:
>This [stratospheric ozone layer] is a very sensitive receiver because UV radiation changes 30 times more than total radiation (3%)
A perfect example of radiation-matter “tuning”.
Always amazes me that CO2-centrists can’t get their head around the significance of this. Although their theory is in essence a radiation-matter interaction theory, they lack fundamental knowledge of radiation-matter “tuning”.
A common example is the UV Index in respect to the human body. By now most people are aware of this to a degree, especially in Australia and New Zealand.
Basically:
UV-B is “tuned” to the epidermis (outer layer)
UV-A is “tuned” to the dermis
IR-A/B is “tuned” to internal tissue, muscle, fluid (blood, water), etc. Hence the warming agent for the human body in respect to sunlight.
So the tuning is just the first aspect; the flow-on effects, or not, then take on the greater significance. The flow-on from UV change in the stratosphere, as described by Vinós, are huge on a planetary scale.
But downwelling radiation from so-called GHGs are NOT “tuned” to surface materials, water in particular. Therefore there is NO flow-on effect.
30
Has anyone checked on the Maldives?
Just wondering if they’re still there?
I guess the boiling is keeping the sea levels down.
230
They are still there. No photos of anything being under water.
https://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Attractions-g293953-Activities-Maldives.html
80
They are still building new airports and resorts, mostly very close to sea level, while still asking for more money to combat rising sea levels…
90
..well, they dont hsve many options on higher land !
11
They do have an option to not proceed due to “unpredented sea level rise”
30
https://declassifiedaus.org/2024/06/11/australia-pushes-ahead-in-the-ai-arms-race/ “Boeing subsidiary Insitu Pacific and Australian company Innovaero have developed the one-way-loitering (OWL) munition known as the Owl. The Owl can travel 200km and loiter for 30 minutes in the air and is currently being trialled by an unspecified army special operations unit ”
….’Loiter drones’ – they the ones that are AI programmed with the targets picture and then set and left in area where target is expected. When target scanned, deploys to exterminate target. I think?
Anyhow, this is the stuff that visits my nightmares, not hot weather / natural disasters / rising sea Tsunamis or killer viruses.
110
You could program one with politician’s face you know… Launched from 200km away… half an hour before… Who would know?
I always wanted to put that tech in the old ashtrays that big buildings had in their hallways, fit it with some hot stuff and a tiny camera so it goes up as a recognised person walks past. Then everyone gave up smoking and the ashtrays were removed just as I perfected it!
00
Exeter – Devon suspends Low Traffic Neighbourhood Scheme: https://democracy.devon.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=5135
80
University of Exeter is where I believe a lot of climate “scientists” graduate from. Also believe that our BOM head came from Exeter.
50
They still got to keep a lot of traffic ‘calming’ (causing?) / road narrowing measures. But grab the wins where you can
00
“They still got to keep a lot of traffic ‘calming’ ”
That’s the filthy oil industry making sure we use more fuel with the stupid ideas traffic engineers come up with! Humps in the road labelled 25kph, when that speed would wreck your suspension.
00
>University of Exeter is where I believe a lot of climate “scientists” graduate from
My favourite Climategate 2.0 email, by Tommy Wils, originated there:
20
Government control of energy is socialism personified.
A Socialist tract on fast decarbonization from the National Academies
By David Wojick
https://www.cfact.org/2024/06/11/a-socialist-tract-on-fast-decarbonization-from-the-national-academies/#
The beginning: “The title of this 800 page tome is “Accelerating Decarbonization in the United States: Technology, Policy, and Societal Dimensions” from the US National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine (NASEM).
I seldom use the term “socialist” but it is the perfect word here once the concept is updated. It originally referred to government ownership of the means of production. But in today’s Regulatory State, ownership is not required for control so it means government control of production, or more broadly government control of both production and use.
In this case it is government control of the production and use of what they call “the energy system.” Since everybody uses energy this includes control of everybody. Under the proposed system the government does not serve people it “manages” them, or at least their use of energy which is a lot of what we do.”
Lots more in the article. Please share it.
We must stop this socialism.
91
When the corporates control the government which regulates the corporations, that’s a particular variety of socialism. We saw it in Germany under the National Socialist German Workers Party, in Italy under Mussolini, and we see it in rapid development here in The West under the various governments and oppositions in thrall to the globo-corporate organised crime cartel.
Mussolini famously said, “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”
30
I recall the days of State government run electricity as being ones of plentiful, cheap and reliable electricity. It really wasnt a topic of discussion, it was just there.
50
Margaret Thatcher: ‘The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples’ money.’
In her famous quote, Margaret Thatcher succinctly captures the essence of socialism, highlighting a fundamental flaw in its economic structure. “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” These words capture the essence of an economically unsustainable system, where the reliance on redistributing wealth can lead to an inevitable depletion of resources. Thatcher’s statement serves as a cautionary reminder that without a balanced approach to economic policies, societies may face severe consequences.
https://www.socratic-method.com/quote-meanings/margaret-thatcher-the-problem-with-socialism-is-that-you-eventually-run-out-of-other-peoples-money
100
This was posted by Jason Wood, MP, on Farcebook. For those outside Australia, the CFMEU is an extremely militant labour union responsible for massive extortion, overpay and cost blow outs on construction sites. AFL is the Australian Rules football code.
210
The original Painters and Dockers Mob. Ban them.
80
Yes, just rebranded and merged with the Builders Labourers Federation (BLF).
The BLF was so evil that even a Labor Government deregistered the union in 1986. Imagine that! A union that was too brutish, thuggish and corrupt even for a Labor Government.
90
An Ammusing Comment: “A man approaches an airline ticket desk …
… and as he books his flight, asks the attendant if one of his 3 pieces of luggage could be sent to Paris, another to London, and the third to Cairo.
That’s impossible, I’m afraid sir, the attendant replied. We can’t send your luggage to 3 different cities.
Man says, we’ll you did last time I flew your airline.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/elliot-management-may-force-southwest-abandon-bags-fly-free-policy
😁️
100
FWIW
“New York Post- Vegan fake meats linked to heart disease, early death: study”
https://nypost.com/2024/06/11/lifestyle/vegan-fake-meats-linked-to-heart-disease-early-death-study/
Via https://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2024/06/12/ha-pea-news/
But –
“World Economic Forum Says, ‘Let Them Eat Fake Meat!’ ”
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/world-economic-forum-says-let-them-eat-fake-meat
30
The importance of eating your animal-based protein.
https://takecontrol.substack.com/p/protein-guidance
10
The Net Zero and EV transition is based on Pure Fantasy
20
There is a God
But I am a bit worried at what they’re going to turn out for lower costs.
10
The news is spreading –
“Aussie Green Insurrection: Build Coal Plants to Save the Koalas!”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/06/12/aussie-green-insurrection-build-coal-plants-to-save-the-koalas/
40
Excellent, its all happening, the tide has turned.
‘In an attempt to show unity, 14 environmental groups (including ACF, Greenpeace, WWF and Wilderness society) on Monday released a joint letter pledging support for renewable energy, but warning individual projects can’t come at the expense of plants, animals, oceans or forests.
“There is absolutely no need, on our over-cleared continent, to knock down rainforests or irreplaceable wildlife habitat for renewable energy projects,” the letter said.’ (ABC)
21
I used to be green minded and think like they do. Their thinking is a sign of life in the brain. A slight blip on the machine. It is possible to come back to reality from there.
00
More fantasy updates from Snowy Hydro 2.0000000000000000. LOL.
Where is Florence and that tunnel? How far has the tunneling gone? Lots of BS and billions of South Pacific Pesos going down the drain. I can’t wait for the May Update as it is now June.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtdLWT-q71k
Please give us an update on the cost do far. If you dare that is. Malcolm TurnBullSh*te, where are you?
40
they’ll get there eventually and sing its praises. Liberal Party policy after all.
00
‘comments are turned off.’ Unfortunate, unsurprising.
10
More fantasy updates from Snowy Hydro 2.0000000000000000. LOL.
Where is Florence and that tunnel? How far has the tunneling gone? Lots of BS and billions of South Pacific Pesos going down the drain. I can’t wait for the May Update as it is now June.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtdLWT-q71k
Please give us an update on the cost so far. If you dare that is. Malcolm TurnBullSh*te, where are you?
00
And Malcolm Roberts on the case –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMHIA0YEVsk
The Climate Wars. LOL. Just follow the Moneeeeeeee and follow the Evidence. No need to go to Spec Savers as it is as plain as the nose on a corrupt ‘Pollies’ face. A Pinocchio nose. The more they squawk, the more the nose gets longer.
20
We are leaving the water flows to the Gods. LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-wzdjIUQE
11
FWIW
“New Report Reveals Massive Scale of Green Billionaire Funding of ‘Climate Emergency’ Reporting in Mainstream Media”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/06/12/new-report-reveals-massive-scale-of-green-billionaire-funding-of-climate-emergency-reporting-in-mainstream-media/
50
Snow Job 2.00000000000000000000
An absolute disaster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiNNZZOWao
10
Dr Nick Coatsworth makes a stunning admission about the Covid jab
Dr Coatsworth helped lead response to Covid
Will not be getting further Covid vaccines
Dr Nick Coatsworth, who helped lead Australia’s response to Covid-19, has revealed he will not be getting any more vaccinations for the virus.
Speaking with Ben Fordham on 2GB on Wednesday, the former public face of Australia’s fight against Covid-19 made the stunning admission he is done with Covid vaccines.
‘Are you still being vaccinated for Covid?’ Fordham asked.
‘No,’ Dr Coatsworth said.
‘When did you stop doing that?’
‘About two years ago, I had three vaccines, and that’s been enough for me.’
‘Any reason why?’ Fordham asked.
‘Because I don’t think I need any more Ben, and the science tells me that I don’t,’ Dr Coatsworth said.
In February this year Dr Coatsworth admitted that imposing vaccine mandates was wrong in the wake of the Queensland Supreme Court finding that forcing police and paramedics to take the jab or lose their jobs was ‘unlawful’.
In his inquiry submission Dr Coatsworth said mandates should only be a ‘last resort’, ‘time limited’, and be imposed by governments not employers.
Although Dr Coatsworth noted Australia had assembled a top team of medical experts to advise on managing the pandemic, he said they lacked an ethical framework meaning the focus became too narrow.
‘This allowed the creation of a ‘disease control at all costs’ policy path dependence, which, whilst suited to the first wave, was poorly suited to the vaccine era,’ he said.
Dr Coatsworth argued the restriction and testing policies adopted to constrain the first deadliest strain of Covid in 2020 lingered well past their relative benefit, leading to nationwide workforce and testing shortages.
He also thought the differing approaches among states, and between states and the federal government, confused the public and eroded human rights.
‘I strongly encourage the inquiry to recommend amendment of the Biosecurity Act to ensure that all disease control powers are vested in the federal government during a national biosecurity emergency,’ Dr Coatsworth wrote.
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The LACK OF REAL science from day 1 should have told you that you didn’t need ANY!
Reap what you sow…
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The Brownstone Intitute
Send This Article to People Who Say “Ivermectin Doesn’t Work for Covid-19”
BY DAVID GORTLER
If you hear your pharmacist, physician, or academic dean parrot the malignant regurgitated trope of “Ivermectin doesn’t work for Covid” or that there is “no evidence” or “no data” to support ivermectin’s use in Covid-19, send them this meta-analysis summary and annotated bibliography of over 100 studies.
I never really latched on to the idea of social media, which is why I never signed up for it. In addition to pathological social factors, I think it is an especially absurd format for serious scientists to initiate a debate on the intricacies and complexities of medical research, clinical pharmacology, or patient care.
I did not have a Twitter/X account but very recently created one after I was contacted by colleagues alerting me to posts from Dr. Peter Hotez criticizing my recent testimony before the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic held by Dr. Brad Wenstrup (R-OH). Dr. Hotez is a pediatrician and tropical medicine Dean at Baylor in Houston, Texas. About six weeks later, Dr. Hotez responded to my testimony on Twitter/X:
I attempted to rebut Dr. Hotez’s statement by setting up a Twitter/X account only to find out that I couldn’t! Little did I know that the only way to comment on Dr. Hotez’s public Twitter/X page was to be granted permission by him to do so!! And here I thought the idea of Twitter was to foster discourse; not stifle it.
It certainly appears that dissenting scientific opinions are not welcome on Dr. Hotez’s Twitter/X page.
– Ignoring and Censoring Data in History: Copernicus and Galileo
– Medicine is Rarely “Black or White”
– Response to Dr. Hotez’s Assertion: “Ivermectin Does Nothing to Help People with Covid”
– Cochrane’s Ivermectin Review is Incomplete
– Data Analysis
– A Value of p ≤0.05 is Important, but it Isn’t Everything
– Timing is Everything…(When it Comes to Initiating Antiviral Treatment)
– For Covid-19, There is More to the Data than Just Press/Abstract “Topline Results”
To fully address transparency, I am including a full list of ivermectin studies completed to date, with the plurality of positive and negative findings in the form of an annotated bibliography at the end of this article to allow readers to see the sources of the research.
Each of the 103 references includes a brief summary and a link to a longer analysis at c19early.
Along with the bibliography, I am also including two summary plots of the ivermectin data from c19early on overall benefit, and relative benefits from prophylaxis, early, and late treatments.
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How Did a Small Group Do This?
BY JEFFREY A. TUCKER JUNE 12, 2024
Avery interesting study appeared last week by two researchers looking into the pandemic policy response around the world. They are Drs. Eran Bendavid and Chirag Patel of Stanford and Harvard, respectively.
Their ambition was straightforward. They wanted to examine the effects of government policy on the virus.
In this ambition, after all, researchers have access to an unprecedented amount of information. We have global data on strategies and stringencies. We have global data on infections and mortality. We can look at it all according to the timeline. We have precise dating of stay-at-home orders, business closures, meeting bans, masking, and every other physical intervention you can imagine.
The researchers merely wanted to track what worked and what did not, as a way of informing future responses to viral outbreaks so that public health can learn lessons and do better next time. They presumed from the outset they would discover that at least some mitigation tactics achieved the aim.
It is hardly the first such study. I’ve seen dozens of such efforts, and there are probably hundreds or thousands of these. The data is like catnip to anyone in this field who is empirically minded. So far, not even one empirical examination has shown any effect of anything but that seems like a hard conclusion to swallow. So these two decided to take a look for themselves.
They even went to the next step. They assembled and reassembled all existing data in every conceivable way, running fully 100,000 possible combinations of tests that all future researchers could run. They found some correlations in some policies but the problem is that every time they found one, they found another instance in which the reverse seemed to be true.
You cannot infer causation if the effects are not stable.
After vast data manipulation and looking at every conceivable policy and outcome, the researchers reluctantly come to an incredible conclusion. They conclude that nothing that governments did had any effect. There was only cost, no benefit. Everywhere in the world.
Please just let that sink in.
The policy response destroyed countless millions of small businesses, ruined a generation in learning losses, spread ill health with substance abuse, wrecked churches that could not hold holiday services, decimated arts and cultural institutions, broke trade, unleashed inflation that is nowhere near done with us yet, provoked new forms of online censorship, built government power in a way without precedent, led to new levels of surveillance, spread vaccine injury and death, and otherwise shattered liberties and laws the world over, not to mention leading to frightening levels of political instability.
And for what?
Apparently, it was all for nought.
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Old Ozzie – Hotez is a charlatan, a puffed-up batam crowing from the dung heap of his tenure ( and enlarging bank account).
“Apparently, it was all for nought.” And nobody will be punished for the destruction they have wrought.
With the massive push to make every vaccine an mRNA one I don’t trust anyone and will not line up for any – flu and chicken flu included.
50
The link with this entry is mammoth, and covers in detail all IVM trials. But you can download the Pdf instantly. Keep as a record. 15mb
https://c19ivm.org/meta.html
10
Still want to cling on to that mandate card though – when powers are so sadly abused, they should be removed, not reduced.
seriously – if a vaccine works as it should, mandates are not ever going to BE needed
20
Electric vehicle battery suddenly bursts into flames – and firefighter injured while battling blaze on Ross Street, Camperdown
An electric car battery burst into flames with a firefighter injured while trying to put out the blaze.
The Volvo XC40 station wagon was seen smoking on Ross Street in Camperdown, Sydney’s inner west, shortly before 5.15am on Thursday.
Fire and Rescue NSW crews rushed to the scene and struggled to put out the dangerous fire caused by the car’s lithium-ion battery.
‘A battery inside an electric vehicle was smouldering and heating up, then it flared up into a fire,’ FRNSW superintendent Adam Dewberry told the Daily Telegraph.
‘Firefighters have knocked it down, but we have had one firefighter that has suffered some minor injuries.’
While the blaze has been extinguished, Supt Dewberry warned lithium-ion batteries have the potential to reignite.
‘Two fire trucks will remain on scene and now we need to monitor the temperature of that battery to make sure that we keep it cool and it doesn’t go into thermal runaway, where the fire can take hold, accelerate, and blow out with explosive force,’ he said.
50
You wait until these chinese ones start popping up excuse the pun.
10
The XC40 for Oceania is built in China
10
Shows however they can put them out. It was once said they had to be put in a shipping container of water to extinguish. That doesnt seem to be absolutely true.
I know Ross St its quite narrow and dense. A lot of people would be in danger of the toxic smoke coming out of that thing.
So I wonder what the owners are doing regarding insurance right now?
20
From the https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/incident.php?record=recHiWgs05vwOJScm
00
Damn!, left the escooter in the boot
10
Nuclear energy: The flaws in CSIRO’s anti-nuclear, pro-renewables GenCost report
The CSIRO must give a better “apples with apples” comparison of nuclear and renewables to inform the energy transition debate.
Renewable energy advocates have seized on a report by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation as proof that nuclear energy is financially unviable in Australia.
The potential for large taxpayer subsidies is reason to be circumspect about nuclear, despite its appeal in providing reliable, zero emissions power over a very long time.
Nuclear power plants provide always-on power for households and businesses for more than 80 years.
Solar panels typically last up to about 30 years, after which they are old and inefficient. Wind turbines last up to about 25 years. Batteries for energy storage last up to about 15 years and may in the future reach 20 years.
The CSIRO says it uses 30 years because it is the time commercial finance is usually available before repayment is required.
The CSIRO attempts to adjust for the unreliability of renewables in its LCOE estimates by including costs of storage, transmission and firming. “It measures the total unit costs a generator must recover to meet all expenses – plant, equipment, land, raw materials and labour – including a return on investment,” Pearl writes in“It says nothing about the revenue side of the commercial equation: what prices can the generator earn on the wholesale market and, given their costs, what profits can be earned?”
Let me see – Sister-in-law’s Solar Panels & Inverter Mackay replaced after 9 years at $10K – Battery 15 years life – you have to be joking – lot of old broke wind turbines on road Los Angeles to Palm Springs.
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The AFR View
Carbon wars won’t help reach Australia’s climate target
The warning from the boss of one of Australia’s largest energy companies underlines the irrationality of other self-imposed political and policy obstacles to possible technology pathways to reducing emissions.
Opposition Leader Peter Dutton’s declaration that a Coalition government would junk Labor’s interim target to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 43 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030 – and not nominate a replacement target until after the next election – has unfortunately reignited the carbon wars that have plagued attempts to decarbonise Australia’s fossil fuel-intensive economy for the past two decades.
Yet Mr Dutton’s claim that Australia is falling well short of this legislated target on the way to net zero by 2050 under the Paris climate change accord is what many climate activists, energy companies and The Australian Financial Review have been saying.
20
A wind turbine may “last” 25 years, but current usage seems to indicate that they have to be derated after around 10 years by as much as 50%. So that already-low CF of 30% could drop to 15% after only ten years of operation.
Tony recently advised that the total grid wind output had decreased slightly. Don’t know if that decrease is continuing. If yes, it could either be a long-term wind decrease or derating cutting in.
40
Cost of living support through electricity provider in Brisbane, Australia
We’ll apply the $1300 government energy bill relief credits to your electricity account automatically. There’s nothing you need to do to make this happen, we’ll pay the $1000 state rebate on 1 July and the $300 federal rebate in quarterly instalments.
While in the same letter the prices are changing from July 1st 2024
Solar feed in credit reduction from 5 cents to 4 cents (25% reduction)
General usage increase from 32.043 to 33.957 (5.6% increase)
Controlled load 2 usage reduction from 23.3530 to 21.1090 (10.6% reduction)
Solar meter charge increase from 8.5260 to 9.5670 (per day) (10.9% increase)
Daily supply increase from 13.3991 to 13.8028 (2.9% increase)
Daily supply controlled increase from 3.7290 to 3.8830 (4% increase)
Yet another energy cost increase
30
U.S.-Saudi Petrodollar Pact Ends after 50 Years
The 50-year-old petrodollar agreement between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia was just allowed to expire. The term “petrodollar” refers to the U.S. dollar’s role as the currency used for crude oil transactions on the world market. This arrangement has its roots in the 1970s when the United States and Saudi Arabia struck a deal shortly after the U.S. went off the gold standard that would go on to have far-reaching consequences for the global economy. In the history of global finance, few agreements have wielded as many benefits as the petrodollar pact did for the U.S. economy.
The expiration of the petrodollar agreement represents a significant shift in global power dynamics. It highlights the growing influence of emerging economies and the changing energy landscape. While the full implications of this shift remain to be seen, investors should at least be aware that on a macro level, the global financial order is entering a new era. The U.S. dollar’s dominance is no longer guaranteed.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/u-s-saudi-petrodollar-pact-ends-after-50-years/ar-BB1o29sn?
Saudi Arabia has officially stated it will not renew the contract.
This is MAJOR news, with the ramifications and fallout about to hit. Truly a massive hit to the USA, but everyone’s dumping USA bonds anyway as the writing’s on the wall.
What was the economic dynamo of the world is about to become the equivalent of a coal mine in Oz. 😁
20
Expect some lethal accidents to senior members of the House of Saud. America must be able to see the writing on the wall, but they will fight to the bitter end. Leaving the $US monopoly usually invites an invasion or a regime change.
00
This is fine, everything is fine, the USD rules, nothing is hapening.
00
AI discovers new rare-earth-free magnet at 200 times the speed of man
UK deep-tech company Materials Nexus announced on Tuesday that it has designed a new rare-earth-free permanent magnet with the help of its AI platform. It says the AI-driven discovery and development process was 200 times faster than the resource-intensive manual route, bringing new hope to an electrifying world with a growing appetite for powerful magnets.
With its world-largest EV market, China has emerged as a leader in both mining and processing of rare earths, pulling as much as 70% of the world’s rare earths out of the ground while processing closer to 90%. That gives the country monopoly-like control over the essential materials, leaving other markets exposed to supply disruptions and pricing fluctuations.
Rare-earth-free magnets certainly sound like an intriguing solution, but they can be difficult to formulate and less powerful than traditional rare-earth magnets. Niron Magnetics has developed what it calls the world’s first high-performance rare-earth-free magnets, using a mix of abundantly available iron and nitrogen, but it’s been researching and developing it for over a decade and still isn’t quite ready for mass production.
Materials Nexus says MagNex can be produced at 20% the material cost of currently available rare earth magnets, with a 70% reduction in material carbon emissions.
https://www.materialsnexus.com/news
Another product that will never see the light of day or a revolution (pun intended)?
Time will tell, but they’d better be quick.😉
11
Reminds me of a public service report I saw once. Along the lines of “the intangibles, if they could be measured, would have a value of approximately $2 million……”
00
Besides Japan being, as my Japanese Friends tell me, 99.8% Homogeneously Pure – ie the workers can speak to each other on the production line
Here is a video of Chairman Akio Toyoda delivered a New Year’s video message to Toyota employees worldwide – A man enthusiatic about his Company
Akio’s New Year Message for Toyota’s Global Team｜Toyota Times
Happy New Year everyone I hope you all enjoyed the holidays and are eager to get back to work I know I am but first I want to thank each of you for the fantastic job you did last year 2023 – You set new records for Toyota and we now find ourselves at the top of the mountain as they say.
Recently I’ve even studied counting the number of Toyota and Lexus cars sharing the road with me when I’m driving and I have to admit it’s pretty amazing, but I’m reminded of the Chinese Proverb “the taller you grow the deeper you bow” and I think we should all take this to heart.
Because even though profits and volume are the result of our hard work this shouldn’t be a primary goal.
Now I realize you might not expect the Chairman of Toyota to say such a thing but I still believe that our mission is to continue to make every better products and make our customers happy one person at a time that’s It.
Results are important of course but mostly it’s because they give us the ability to achieve our goals and dreams.
Speaking of dreams I recently had one about our founder my grandfather KIRO.
As you may know my grandfather died before I was born so it’s a little strange to dream about someone you’ve never met, but he had a message for me.
Of course I hoped he was is going to tell me that I had done a good job and that he was proud of me, but unfortunately he decided to skip that part.
Instead he told me that even though he’d seen some improvement at Toyota, I hadn’t yet succeeded in transforming us into a Mobility company the way he had transformed Toyota from a loom company into an old automobile company.
So clearly I still have a lot of work to do and I hope you will join me on this journey because I’m counting on your talent imagination and passion to help me fulfill this dream.
So this year, in the words of the immortal Captain James T. Kirk “let’s boldly go where no one has gone before”
Let’s challenge ourselves to expand our capabilities and widen our Horizon in every region and every country, let’s support each other, let’s support our industry by staying true to our point of view, even if it’s not always agreed with at least at first, and together let’s support my friend and fellow Company President Koji Sato as he continues his own quest to make us smile with new products and new experiences for our customers that we can all be proud of, and most of all let’s be sure to do it the Toyota way.
Here’s to an awesome 2024.
Thank you very much
And he drives his Companies Cars to the Limit
In the above video posted on YouTube by Toyota Times Global, Mr Toyoda – who drives under the pseudonym Morizo – cuts a corner and hits the edge of a large mound of rocks, sending the car onto its roof.
“It’s a little embarrassing for me, but it’s a good example,” he said, telling the audience the vehicle brought the engineering team together to discuss ways such a rollover could be avoided in the future.
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A petition for the removal of Daniel Andrew’s AOC is up https://vic.nationals.org.au/no-award-for-dan/?
We are a Federation so whether you live in Victoria or not his economic recklessness affects us all.
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Signed!😁
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+1
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It appears one needs to be a (NP?) Member to submit…
10
No? I am not an NP member and submitted
30
On buffalo and bugs…
Interesting how the western food supply is under attack.
Beef, chicken, eggs, explosions, fires, bird flu etc., all collapsing supply and escalating prices, forcing consumers into unwanted choices.
Can we draw a parallel to the wild west days in the USA when the cattle ranchers wanted the native americans to buy their beef rather than hunt buffalo?
Putting bounties on buffalo drove them to near extinction to achive financial gains and consumer control.
An archival photo: https://imgbox.com/31lhjJAI
Will upcoming generations ever know the taste of beef or chicken, or will it be just a vision from the history books?
20
The Enemies of Food Freedom
BY TRACY THURMAN
In every war, there is necessarily an enemy force, and the war on our food supply is no exception.
My previous article addressed the ongoing attacks on farmers across the globe.
In today’s article, we will look at some of the culprits behind this agenda. For anyone who delved into the entities behind the tyrannical Covid policies, many names on the list below will seem quite familiar.
– Bayer/Monsanto
– Cargill and the US Department of Agriculture (USDA)
– Wellcome Trust
– The World Health Organization
– World Economic Forum
– EAT Forum, the Lancet, and their Big Tech and Big Chemical Partners
– The Rockefeller Foundation
– Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation
– USAID and BIFAD
Another organization pushing you to eat bugs is USAID. This may surprise some of you who think of USAID as an organization dedicated to helping third-world countries, rather than as a longtime Trojan horse for CIA operations. (Skeptical of that claim? Go down the rabbit hole here and here and here and here.)
Their Board for International Food and Agricultural Development, known as BIFAD, released a report titled “Systemic Solutions for Climate Change Adaptation and Mitigation. – 133 page PDF”
This report calls for a complete transformation of the food supply and global agriculture. They propose to do this through ESG scores, carbon tracking, and eating insects.
So how do these organizations manage to push their agenda on the global population? We will cover that in a future article.
20
There is no indication on the website I linked above that the petition cannot be signed by persons other than NP members. If you have a reference for your comment, please supply one.
10
Can confirm that it works
30
Doh
10
Imagining a problem
00
Today’s wind energy production on what is arguably the coldest day so far this winter:
http://anero.id/energy/wind-energy
Click on the MW button to the top right of the chart.
And of course, with cloud being widespread, the solar contribution will be a bit down.
Says it all, really.
Now, about those SC HELE coal stations … . Are the policymakers listening to you, TonyfromOz?
Cheers,
Paul Miskelly
10
Apparently they will have one use which is to pull the Australian landmass up like a collective helicopter thereby keeping us from drowning due to glacial ice melt.
10
“drowning due to glacial ice melt.”
Well, the return of the Great Australian Inland Sea.. that doesn’t sound like a negative to me!
10
Just looking at Australias leading state for “ RE transition”…
Over the past 24 hours, the total demand was approx 36 GWh
The contribution of Wind and Solar was approx 4.0 GWh !
So without Fossil fueld back up, they would have required 32 GWh of battery backup just to get through the day…and some means of charging it !
32GWh of battery would cost $30billion ++ !😳😳😳
Now scale that up for the rest of the East coast with a typical 24 h demand of 500+ GWh 😱
..Net Zero ,..when ?😂😂
10
Okay, on that same link that Paul Miskelly linked to, now unclick NSW, Qld, and Tas., so that just SouthAus and Victorian Industrial wind plants are shown, and look at that line of power generation. That’s from a Nameplate of 4304MW. At that low point total power generation is 65MW at a Capacity Factor of 1.5%.
Pitiful.
Umm, now look to the right of the graph at that Synoptic Chart, and see where that large High Pressure weather system is, and how many Isobars are in that area, indicating wind presence.
Oh dear! There’s a ‘whoopsie’ as Frank Spencer might say.
Tony.
10
Even SAs Diesel generators got a good long run yesterday !
Amusing entertainment for us observers, but I wonder if anyone in a responsible, influential, position is taking any notice ?
00
Climate Change For The Birdwatchers (video)
00
FWIW – HCQ and bird flu
“BREAKING: Trump’s Real COVID Treatment Making Waves Again”
https://www.zerohedge.com/sponsored-post/breaking-trumps-real-covid-treatment-making-waves-again
10
Every drug is a miracle of medical science unless there’s a more expensive (but not necessarily more effective) new drug available.
10
I see that Elon Musk’s latest tribulations include multiple allegations from former female subordinates of sexual misconduct. Isn’t is amazing how the character of this awful human being was hidden from us when he was a darling of the left yet, since he did something they don’t like, we read about how utterly awful he is in every way nowadays?
Is it that being hit on by your boss is OK so long as he’s a lefty?
40
And dont overlook his latest pay package..
https://fortune.com/2024/06/07/elon-musk-pay-package-more-than-any-ceo-ever/
That is $56 BILLION over 10 yrs !….$5,600, million per year 😳😱
WTF ?
00