The real cost of back up
Imagine building and maintaining a perfectly good gas plant and then having it sit around for five whole years “just in case”?
There’s been a wind drought in the last three months in Australia, which meant hydro power had been used more than expected to fill the gap. But wouldn’t you know it, it’s been dry spell for most of the last year in Tasmania too and the dams were getting low. So on June 6th, the Combined Cycle Gas plant at Tamar Valley was set up to run for the first time since 2019.
Back in 2016 the maintenance costs of the keeping the CCGT at Tamar Valley on “30 day” standby was $12 to $24 million a year, depending on who you asked. So the five year cost of gas backup is in the order of $100 million, but those costs will be slapped on the gas plant bill, when really they’re a weather dependent renewables cost. What we need is reliable energy, not random electricity. If energy companies were only paid for reliable dispatchable power, the wind and solar plants would have to build their own “back up gas plants” that sit around idle for years, and juggle their own generators. So they’d all go out of business by breakfast. Why build a perfectly good gas plant with vast wind and hydro complex, when you could just build the gas plant and get what you need? Fossil fuels are essential, renewables are superfluous weather-changing talismen.
From WattClarity: This confirms that it’s the first time in just over 5 years that the combined cycle unit has seen a run!
…
Naturally Hydro Tasmania blame the drought, not the failing wind farms. But when the wind doesn’t blow, hydro likes to make profits from the price spikes, and there have been plenty of those lately.
In 2009 the whole gas plant was built for $230 million dollars. But the 2016 power debacle where the Basslink cable broke during a drought, cost the state $560 million dollars.
The only thing worse than the cost of back up power, is the cost of blackouts.
The Tamar Valley Power Station has four units, three are peaking gas units (adding up to 178MW), and one more efficient baseload turbine (CCGT) of 210MW.
[UPDATE: CCGT corrected to “Combined Cycle”. Apologies. – Jo]
Photo from: Tas Hydro
Why the main photo of a cooling tower.
81
Because Taymar Valley is CCGT…
IE it has both gas turbines , and steam turbines. !
140
That would be a “Combined Cycle” which indeed is what runs at Tamar Valley.
Not a “Closed Cycle” as the article suggests … to the best of my knowledge no one in Australia used closed cycle turbines, and it only makes sense to consider if you have some heat source such as nuclear for example.
220
Thank you Tel. That is exactly what I meant. (Ouch) Fixed. If only spell checkers knew some thermodynamic engineering.
130
It’s a Mitsubishi M710 to be exact, consisting of a 140 Mw gas turbine and a 70 Mw steam turbine, together providing a combined cycle thermal efficiency of about 50%.
The simple cycle Rolls Royce Trent 60 gas turbine is used for occasional peaking. Thermal efficiency is at best 42%.
The three Pratt and Whitney FT8 simple cycle gas turbines are typically used as synchronouos condensers. When used for generating their thermal efficiency is at best 36%.
Fuel gas is transported across the Bass Strait in the Tasmanian pipeline from Longford gas plant in Victoria.
90
Darn, I’ve been calling them Closed Cycle. Thanks for the correction.
30
From the air, the station has blues, greens, and orange colors. Pretty!
The top photo shows the green here:
-41.140642, 146.906047
30
It must have been close to there I sat out in the cold trying to catch a glimpse of fairy penguins The little Bs didn’t show, there or on a beach on the east coast, maybe Bicheno.
30
Flinders Island, 99% diesel at 06:38.
280
This system was put in place to backup Renewables but it is nothing when compared to the planned offshore windmill farms coming to Novocastria soon.
Who is running Australia; it certainly isn’t our parliament.
360
I’m hoping we never make it to there. Surely sanity will return soon.
When I used to drive to Koorogang for fertiliser there was a windmill there. That would have been 40+ years ago. Is there any useful information that came from that? Last time I was there I think it was gone.
40
Ted, it’s been gone for a few years now, but I don’t think it was forty years old.
I used to work at a plant just across the river from it.
We made wire.
20
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2016-06-01/kooragang-island-turbine-new-life-in-tasmania/7465732&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwinycf34YqHAxW2sFYBHcE1C4cQFnoECAcQAg&usg=AOvVaw2zgxYx1ChYjQ95zDukabbh
Will this work
10
Thanks for that. I’ve certainly got my dates mixed up. It would be the first half of the ’80s that I found it better to hire a carrier than drive my own truck. So I must have been there for some other reason that I can’t remember.
00
Hadnt heard that before, it seems to predate the worst of renewables stupidity. Wasnt orginally proposed or started by Hydro.
20
I think he meant about 20 years.
20
Government is ALWAYS on standby. It rarely runs. It often fails completely. It is never held to account. It could not exist as a viable business. Why does anyone surprised by the incompetence, laziness, etc? Its all part of being a parasite.
500
King island in the so called roaring 40s is also running on Diesel this morning and Wind, Solar and Battery have all gone AWOL again.
This was at 7.30 am aes time.
https://www.hydro.com.au/clean-energy/hybrid-energy-solutions/success-stories/king-island
290
That’s the one place in the world where “renewables” might even have a fighting chance.
And even there they are a miserable failure, apart from their purpose of virtue signaling and (I presume) subsidy harvesting.
It’s an obvious lesson for all of Australia but, present company excepted, no one sees it.
290
Diesel still at 98% at 0913 – https://www.hydro.com.au/clean-energy/hybrid-energy-solutions/success-stories/king-island
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David,
Yet on this isolated island that suffers the Roaring Forties many days of the year, miners before us managed to establish a world class mine for the element Tungsten, symbol W, after discovery in 1904.
Tungsten is critical in machine toos like cutting bits in lathes, to work hard metals and alloys into accurate shape and finish.
My employer Peko Wallsend acquired King Island Scheelite in 1969, the same year that we discovered Ranger Uranium in the NT. We went underground from the old open cut with the Dolphin and Bold Head mines for separate ore pods. We mined under the seas of Bass Strait. Ore we could mine ran out in 1990, when we closed and performed a magnificent cleanup that drew the admiration even if critics. This time was much the same as my time with Peko.
You can mine in favour of all sectors of society if your ore grades are rich and your mining engineers top class. You make enough money for rehabilitation, through excellence.
While I was not close to the King Island engineering people, I do not recall any electricity other than diesel being proposed. The winds are the cause of jokes, some mentioning windmills.
I relate this long story to highlight the importance of excellence in professional people. Part of our success involved logical, reasoned discussion with mining regulators, to allow the best way over the government way. Has that era ended? Theoretically, what would happen with different timing and we were just about to start mining today. Would net zero prohibit diesel? If so, no mine.
This was a globally important mine with military/peace implications. Such gems are too valuable to be toys of political ideologies. Leave them free from meddlers who knows stuff all, with knowledge decreasing in proportion to how extreme the green. Geoff S
70
Not sure what carping about moments on KI achieves.
There will be moments when one type of generation dominates and at other times it wont.
Has anyone ever said the design intent was for the diesel never to run?
31
Who are you and what have you done with Yarpos ? Both KI and SA are the poster child for renewables , both have a secret appetite for fossil fuels .
This tells me that the wind , solar and battery dream is nothing more than a nightmare.
70
The cost of backup is yet another dishonest way that the huge cost of unreliables is (partially) hidden and absorbed in other costs.
The true cost is far more than “just” the tripling of consumer electricity bills due to unreliables.
Also costs due to extra transmission lines etc are not properly costed into “renewables” pricing.
That’s how science-propaganda Government organisations like CSIRO get to dishonestly claim they are so “cheap” even though that is obviously not true as people see every time they get an electricity bill.
360
See papers by Robert Idel, re: Levelized Full System Costs of Electricity
These papers are part of Rice University PhD candidate Idel. He provides a model to assess the full costs of providing power for different generator types. In comparing Wind/Solar LFCOE USD/Mw, for USA Texas, Wind/Solar are 7 to 10 times more expensive than Natural Gas Closed Cycle.
Lots of very good information in these papers and ought be widely read. It is past time to stop being gaslighted by politicians and solar/wind/green purveyors about actual costs.
LFSCOE
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4028640
LFSCOE-95
https://iaee2021online.org/download/contribution/fullpaper/1145/1145%5C_fullpaper%5C_20210326%5C_222336.pdf
I’ll say it again: The way to immediately put a stop to the R.E. Charade is to require them to pay for the costs of backup, FCAS, transmission and integration, and to require them to “bid into the load” on a day-ahead basis just as the thermal power generators are required to do. They would shut their doors in a few hours.
290
Yes agree. The fact that AEMO, stands for Australian Energy Market Operator is such a joke. There is no “ market” in the true sense of that word and I’m not even sure if “operator” applies either. I think now AEMO, just do as the energy companies tell them. Because we know private industry always employs smarter people.
180
Tel was correct at #1.1.1. CCGT is “Combined Cycle”, not “Closed Cycle”. My error.
Closed cycle relates moreso to nuclear fuel cycles. Combined Cycle relates to a hybrid Gas Turbine and associated steam cycle power generation system.
50
If electrickery is getting cheaper, then why is every one in Australia getting a $300 rebate on their bills in 2004/2005?
And some States are offering other rebates on top of that.
What a FARCE.
130
Um, because the fraudsters need to keep the populace quiet before they riot?
If R.E. was “cheaper”, then why have your electric charges increased?
The rebates are nothing but “gaslighting” to confuse the voting/consumer base into thinking “things aren’t so bad”.
Reality says that your government is destroying the AU economy and fleecing the taxpayers/ratepayers to prop up a farcical and useless scheme. There are 4 reasons that rope exists: Shipping, Construction, Commercial activities, and Politics.
120
Lance,
That concession able rebate is no more than some taxes paid by people, being returned to them. In some twisted way, it is being promoted as evidence that some high renewables early costs can be minimised in the way to renewables soon showing their modelled potential to be cheapest.
Economic reality is being silenced by government spin.
CSIRO and AEMO are disgraceful. Some reports start by saying they only model scenarios consistent with govt policy like net zero carbon, when a responsible approach would create reports warning of high renewables costs and ringing alarms. Geoff S
40
Similarly, Newport Gas Power Station in Melbourne has been running for a couple of hours on about half the evenings in May and June to cover for the wind droughts, delivering a reliable 510 MW to keep the lights on. But only ran for 2-3 hours on 2-3 days in March/April.
A similar story for the open cycle gas turbines at Mortlake delivering up to 500 MW for just an hour or two on some evenings.
Run out of gas, and the grid will collapse.
Meanwhile in SA, during June, gas delivered 56% of all generation, and 72% on some evenings, supplemented with 15% from Vic.
230
I wonder how close Australia is to a total grid collapse and needing a “black start”?
240
I doubt that will happen ever !,
There is still enough coal,gas, hydro, diesel, etc working to provide a level of supply, and
AEMO will crash any big industry consumers, cut off towns and regeons if neccessary,…( ideally the ACT first)….anything to maintain a “core” grid working.
But even that would be a big disaster !
140
Doesn’t the ACT claim to be 100% renewables?
If so, during wind droughts combined with night time, the ACT should have blackout conditions.
No doubt there is a political spin in play to claim they are getting renewable electrons from some remote, far-flung wind tower that only supplies the ACT.
When I was taught electronics there was no mention of a ‘green electron only’ filter
150
Yeah, so long as AU becomes a service industry without a middle class and no manufacturing, you’re spot on.
AU won’t have any silicon chip industries, no Al smelting, no steel either, no heavy industry, just people serving coffee to other people.
Intermittent power is the hallmark of third world economies. That’s what R.E. is about. Devolving economies and Nations.
140
You’ve forgotten about Australia becoming a ‘renewable energy superpower’ & our quantum ‘supercomputing’ & our ‘super solar cell’ manufacturing industry!!!
It’s all just..well…Super.. lol!
20
Yet again, the Socialist People’s Republic of Victoriastan is leading the way!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-21/nsw-and-victoria-states-facing-gas-shortages-aemo/103612004
The NSW Government has secured an agreement with Origin Energy to operate the Eraring Power Station until August 2027.
So 2028 should be the timing for a “black start”.
90
CO2 Lover,
Tasmania gets their gas from Victoria . If we run out – so do they . If we shut down Yallourn , and the wind dies at night we go down together . Having off grid capability might become a necessity rather than a virtue signaling luxury .
40
I thought Mt Piper had a designed servicre life to 2040 !
But just politically limited ?
30
It’s shameful that all of Australia’s public “engineers” and “scientists” as well as “professional” bodies representing them and who should at least understand the renewables insanity and speak out against it, remain utterly silent.
360
He who pays the pipers calls the tune.
140
Unfortunately, the best cure for luxury beliefs is poverty.
141
Reminds me of the stupid desalination plants that were built, unused and maintained for several years before they were quietly dismantled. I suppose Hydro Tasmania will say they made more money generating electricity for Victoria out of free water to cover the cost of the Tamar circus. Government scribes will be working flat out, as we speak, to nullify any negativity.
170
The stupidity is to be found in the politicians who listened to “Climate Expert” Flim Flan Flannery.
The conditions were so bad that Tim Flannery, now Australia’s Chief Climate Commissioner, declared rather bizarrely in 2007 that hotter soils meant that “even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill our dams and river systems”.5 Mar 2012
120
Penguinite,
The Victorian desal plant is still there and sucking up money . Weapons grade boondoggle .
50
And yet tourism folks still claim that Tasmania is 100% renewable. Wonder who started that lie.
170
100% renewable 98% (or pick a number) of the time. Close enough for government work.
40
I guess you sort of have to look the other way when Basslink is importing coal and gas fueled electricity to Tassie also.
20
Good piece. But it does not tell so much the “real cost of backup” as the real cost of baseload. Wind and solar can’t replace baseload, and hydro is limited. Natural gas can supply electricity in either mode, but generally costs (and emits) more to operate as backup.
Baseload is sort of the opposite of intermittent supply.
100
More like,.. Baseload is a continous, uninterupted, minimum supply that is ALWAYS required and must never be compromised.
170
AEMO – That’s 18,500MW, and rising slowly each and every year.
At the point of absolute daily minimum power consumption, 4AM every morning, of that 18,500MW, the FOUR renewables deliver an average of 4,500MW.
Ever wondered which source delivers the bulk at that time?
Tony.
220
What does the National grid peak at Tony? Thought it was around 25GW.
From an Australian viewpoint, add the need to support the WA SWIS at 4GW peaking in summer (only 3GW in winter), ignore the WA NWIS grid, add NT and I’m guessing a peak load of around 35GW.
20
The NEM peaked at 32.6GW on both June 19 and June 24 at about 6:30pm according to Aneroid Energy.
The minimum throughout June was 19.3GW at 4:00am on June 9.
10
Just for the “National” grid, an absolute minimum of one trillion dollars, if batteries were used, which of course we cannot afford to do so.
Don’t say gas, because if 82% renewables are required by 2030, surely there won’t be sufficient extra gas for backup. And Snowy 2 can only provide around 10% backup.
I can see Labor using the “boiling frog” approach, adding more renewables, a bit of battery backup, more transmission lines, all gradually, while we watch our power bills climb higher and higher.
30
At least Bloomberg’s Scientists are telling us the truth about the real global costs of their so called net zero.
They’ve recently increased the cost by a further 34 trillion $ and today that would be about 234 trillion $ for the full global cost.
Aussie’s full cost would be over 2 trillion $ today and well over the 1.9 trillion $ cost in 2023.
And never forget their ABC has also told us that Aussie’s full cost would be trillions of $ to reach net zero by 2050.
Has anyone got any idea how we would pay for these toxic disasters and the replacements every 15 to 20 years?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-21/key-takeaways-from-bloombergnef-s-new-energy-outlook
200
Just to provide battery back-up with no natural gas back-up (and no coal and no nuclear) in Australia would cost around A$ 10 Trillion based on current demand before adding future demand for data centres and the electrification of transportation.
It would also take decades at current global battery pack production rates to produce the number of battery packs required that would need replacing every 10-15 years!
140
$10 trillion isn’t much if you say it fast.
50
For an unkown duration of back up
30
Neville, you have got to the meat of the matter, the horrendous cost of putting in and then replacing renewables is simply unaffordable for any state or country, they would be bankrupt if they try to implement this folly.
Remind me again, all this is for what purpose? Labor and the Greens say it is necessary to save us from further mild global warming later this century. However, this warming like the current cyclic phase is incidentally beneficial to humanity-not a disaster! So, tell me again why any sane government would do this harm to their society, when smarter governments including all our regional neighbours like India, China, Indonesia, Japan, S Korea and Malaysa are all embracing cheaper reliable coal, gas and nuclear power to supply growing energy needs.
Collectively they must be looking at Australia with astonishment, what do we know that they don’t? Or is it we are so much more moral in environmental terms in our desire to save the planet? or is it simply we are just dumb and utterly subservient to the UN climate dictates, that these other nations are ignoring- with good reason.
Whatever the reality Australia is up a tree in a storm of its own making, out on a shaky limb with no phone reception, what could go wrong?
30
However, producing any electricity from a fossil fuel is verboten by Labor/Greens Climate Cultists and battery backup is at least an order of magnitude more expensive than building a natural gas backup plant. Anyway natural gas is in short supply already on the Eastern Coast of Australia.
Dutton should be saying at if a Coalition Goverment is elected then all wind and solar projects (and other energy projects) appproved and constructed thereafter will only receive payment based on dispatchable power and not on parasite power that relies on others to provide power when wind and solar go AWAL.
This would kill off the rent-seekers overnight.
190
Agreed. The rules which favour intermittent energy sources at the expense of reliable energy sources are at the centre of the emerging, intentionally created crisis.
140
I agree that it would kill off the rent seekers if it was done. But if you campaigned on that platform, the green rent seekers would make sure that you could never be elected.
90
The AEMO ISP24 states that the NEM is forecast to need 16.2 GW of gas-powered generation. Of the existing 11.2 GW capacity, about 8 GW is forecast or announced to retire, so that capacity would be replaced and another 5 GW added. They claim only 5% use to back up renewables!
How does that fit in with NET Zero.
My guess is that they will be used more than 5% of the time. Just look at the situation this year.
I think that they are on a success oriented schedule.
John
50
And therein lies the real problem. The “rent seekers” are a very powerful lobby group who will not let Dutton get a toe hold as they know that, eventually, nuclear will be the end of wind and solar. Dutton opened Pandora’s Box but he has failed to prosecute the case, which needs hard selling. He has learnt nothing from Howard and the GST which could have been an election killer except for Howard’s constant selling, supported by the entire Coalition Team.
Not sure if Dutton knows how to sell this.
70
IMHO Peter Dutton handled The Voice pretty well. He didn’t go too hard too early. He didn’t make it all about himself, he let highly appropriate qualified others run the case. There’s a lot of time before the next federal election, and it’s important not to go too hard too early on Nuclear. Softly, softly …..
30
I think just by opening the box, Dutton has created a conversation that we have to have. It will take sone to play out though.
20
Where is Tasmania getting the gas? Victoria will be completely empty by summer.
Then no gas stoves, gas heating, a lot of chemical manufacturing, a lot of processing is totally gas reliant.
And because successive Victorian government including Dennis Napthine and the Liberals and of course Daniel Andrews, blocked Exxon from their own $200Million search for new gas.
When are we going to stop paying all the wages at Portland Alcoa so they can make a profit from unaffordable electricity as one of our major users?
150
Will not be the last time.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/tasmania-relying-on-150-diesel-generators-for-electricity-until-june-20160329-gnt0pd.html
70
Here’s their ABC report again about the trillions of $ cost of our so called energy transition from reliable base-load energy to unreliable, toxic W & S and regular toxic updates every 15 to 20 years.
And the entire waste of trillions of $ every 15 to 20 years will have zero change for weather or temperature by 2050 or 2100.
Why can’t our loony govts look up the NON OECD co2 emissions data since 1990 and hopefully start to wake up? But don’t hold your breath, although this only takes a few minutes online.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-19/australias-energy-transition-needs-gas-safety-net-report-finds/102236352
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There is a better than even chance that the dry spell will continue into the foreseeable future, blocking high pressure is here to stay.
http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDY65100.pdf
52
ATM Tas wind is producing 6MW. Idle wind farms are prolly using that to keep awake and the bearings turning over.
30
And to make matters worse, it is pretty cold.
‘A weather station at Liawenee just registered the lowest July temperature ever reliably recorded in Tasmania as high pressure continues to build over the state.
‘A very cold and dry air mass, combined with clear skies and calm winds beneath a strengthening high pressure system, caused temperatures to plummet across Tasmania on Tuesday night.’ (Weatherzone)
51
And on another subject, the Sydney Water desalination Plant has been in mothballs for a while now. How much is that Plant costing to maintain? Why not turn it on and bottle the water for sale to all the Climate Alarmists. At a premium of course.
61
A station to be powered by gas,
Left for years sitting idle, alas,
Costing millions to stand by,
Giving renewables a try,
Run by folks with necks of some brass.
100
Lets rename “Hydro Tasmania” to “Fusion Power”! Build two SMRs! The build cost would be half that of wind and solar and last longer too! Especially the bird killing monstrosity they are contemplating for the North West and be operating sooner without the hundreds of kilometers of wires and pylons required to link it up to the Grid!!
80
That would put Tasmania way ahead of the rest of the world!
12
Since there is already a small 200 MW pebble bed reactor connected to a commercial grid, I would say that Tassie would be second.
30
Not fusion!!!!!!
00
Tassie doesnt need more generation ( until the next drought ?).. they have plenty of Hydro.
If they get more generation , they will need another Basslink to sell it.
$+$+$+$ ..!
20
Again here’s the true facts about the real world energy transition and clearly it’s fossil fuels all the way since 1990.
China, India and the NON OECD countries have clearly chosen fossil fuels as the answer to their future
energy needs for decades into the future.
So why have the wealthy (???) OECD countries chosen toxic W & S and crippling costs and future energy starvation for nothing?
Since 1990 to 2022 the annual NON OECD increases in co2 emissions have increased by 14.3 billion Ts and yet the annual OECD co2 emissions have decreased slightly in 2022.
So where’s the howling by the lefty loonies about the soaring NON OECD co2 emissions since 1990?
Or doesn’t this matter as long as the OECD countries suffer as a consequence?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?country=Non-OECD+%28GCP%29~OECD+%28GCP%29
20
Of course we could sell them one of the three massively expensive and never used desalination plants. They could use imported gas to make power to create fresh water to pump uphill into their hydro reservoirs and generate Green electricity to sell to Victoria for a profit? Chris Bowen could champion it as a solid Green solution. And Malcolm Turnbull and Twiggy Forrest would agree. And Tim Flannery would say the technology was straightforward. It’s amazing how switched on these people are.
110
Perhaps the desal water could be split by solar and then burnt to pump water uphill. You know it makes sense Bowen.
70
Have the engineers all been sidelined? If you have a combined cycle gas plant and there hasn’t been much rain, YOU RUN THE GAS PLANT FOR BASE LOAD. How hard is that?
I’m assuming that they have a reliable gas supply or they wouldn’t have built the thing, but I’m not sure you can assume anything today.
30
But that minimises profit. The will run the water supply down till it becomes an “emergency” and the run the gas fired generation while asking for govt/taxpayer assistance.
This years bonus protected.
40
Thorium based nuclear technology continuse to make headway in developing a viable ultra low emission and safe power source.
Copenhagen Energy, Topsoe, Aalborg CSP and Pupuk Indonesia have announced a further MoU for collaboration to develop Thorium based molten salt reactors capable of producing low emission ammonia.
The aim is to use Thorium based reactors in collaboration with Topsoe technology to develop a plant capable of producing one million tonnes PA of ammonia as a nitrogenous fertiliser. The companies hope to be in production by mid 2030’s. Copenhagen Energy is also working towards small modular reactors about the size of a container.
Whilst there are still many challenges with converting Thorium, it is an attractive alternative to Uranium given its relative abundance, higher level of safety, much reduced radioactive life (circa 300 years). No windmills, no solar panels and plug into the existing grid. Worth following the progress of this technology.
51
ANSTO
https://www.ansto.gov.au/our-science/nuclear-technologies/reactor-systems/advanced-reactors
20
Max,
Thorium is the future – it can be extracted from the ash left over after you burn coal in a generator . Thorium reactors cannot melt down . Win-Win.
30
There’s always going to be a big breakthrough in thorium technology – TOMORROW. If it happens, great!
But if we do the maintenance on our fossil fuel generators and don’t close any, we have the luxury of being able to wait for the best new technology to be proven, be that large nuclear, modular nuclear or thorium.
May the best technology win.
60
IPA website
The Ruinous Cost Of Free Energy: Why An Electricity System Built On Renewables Is The Most Expensive Of All Options
Written by: Stephen Wilson
1 July 2024
70
https://ipa.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/IPA-Research-Report-The-Ruinous-Cost-of-Free-Energy-FINAL-July-2024.pdf
60
A great document, with lots of interesting graphs. Watch his videos as well.
50
When PM Albanese travelled to the NSW Hunter Valley Liddell Power Station owned by AGL Limited for a media stunt announcing a new taxpayer subsidised solar panel manufacturing business venture my first thought was how could they compete with China made solar panels, the world market leader and with many manufacturing cost advantages.
I later read that AGL were saying that they would market the solar panels to their clients and other potential buyers, but I was still wondering how they expect to be price competitive.
Now I have a better understanding, AGL is not worried about the manufacturing cost because the transition future will require by government all building owners to install solar panels, batteries and smart meters to enable the electricity grid managers to feed in when needed for local grid needs. As with the subtle marketing about buy an EV and you can use your EV to power your home if necessary. Because, not stated, you will probably need that option when the coal fired power station fleet has been retired by order your governments.
60
I read that they would be recycling solar panels. That’s odd.
And you can be sure that the special chargers stations for EV’s will be taxed at a much higher rate and turned off whenever they need to use all the power.
The rapid destruction of a reliable grid is well underway. Very soon we will not have what we had in the first place before it was improved.
It’s akin to a builder demolishing your house at your great expense and telling you to buy a caravan because there are people in the world without houses.
Complete nonsense.
Where is the political party which promises adequate reliable power? Not Labor or Liberal. Both are quite mad. And I do not know why this absurdity has taken hold. No one voted for carbon taxes and windmills. It’s all about the politicians and keeping their jobs and nothing to do with reality.
80
It’s actually interesting . It’s not fair to compare nuclear to renewables. In reality the only reason that nuclear is needed is because renewables can’t run the grid without significant backup.
The nuclear plants are a cost of the renewables because they can’t survive without baseload.
But renewables are not a cost of Nuclear because nuclear runs 24/7 and doesn’t need renewables to back it up.
This makes it impossible for renewables to be cheaper than nuclear.
60
It’s also not fair to cost solutions which are reliable and controllable with those that are completely random or predictably unavailable. Solar for example is not available at all for most of the day. Wind can not be available for weeks at a time. A Joe Biden solution.
It’s not rational to compare massive civil investment which lasts 20 years at most with an investment which lasts 100 years. Who would build a dam or a bridge or a large public building to last 20 years?
And who would make the public pay for it all and give it to ‘investors’ who charge you to use it? What sort of privatization is that? I would call it robbery.
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We have the same in Victoria where we paid fees on the freeways built by investors. And the time expired but Daniel Andrews kept the fees going and split the difference with people who collect the fees on what is now a publicly owned road. Nice work if you can get it, charging rent on something you don’t own. More government ordered theft by third parties, like windmills and solar panels.
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Place a nuclear reactor in Tasmania
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Our growing power crisis is entirely manufactured by governments. They are ignoring the electorate completely. No one voted for increasing our power bills to pay for the wholesale destruction of our adequate and reliable power generation system. And we were told by all parties “there will be no carbon tax in a government I lead”. They all lied. It is the only reason power bills have soared for what is substantially still coal fired power.
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And today with record cold in Victoria and Tasmania, it is amazing that we are forced to pay so much as a Nation to stop Global Warming and cripple our economy. Everything was fine until politicians decided otherwise.
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TdeF and others interested here is the Coalition Plan that was sent to me by my local Federal MP
https://www.australianeedsnuclear.org.au
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