While Turnbull and the Liberals are attacking Labor for wanting a “massive new carbon tax on electricity,” it turns out that the Climate Change Authority is going to recommend the Liberals do exactly that but not ’til after the election. Allegedly Greg Hunt’s office are “very happy” that the report will be delayed. It would muddy up that scare campaign about Labor’s carbon tax if the punters knew the Libs planned to bring one in too. Labor and the Greens are crying foul, saying the report should be released now.
We are bizarrely reliving 2009. The public don’t want carbon trading. They have voted against it at every opportunity. They don’t want to spend even $2 to neutralize flights, yet both major political parties are now demanding we have one. If the report is suppressed in any way it shows Turnbull and Hunt know the public don’t want a carbon tax, but they’re going to give them one despite that.
The Climate Change Authority was rescued from the Abbott sabre by Al Gore and Clive Palmer. Turnbull and Hunt pointed at it on Sept 22 last year, barely two weeks after the coup, and announced carbon trading and a “cap” could begin in mid 2016. Neither of them have said anything since that suggests they are not intending to bring Cap N Trade in after the election.
Yet again, the climate non-issue for voters is causing turmoil in the Liberal Party. Turnbull is cutting out the core traditional Liberal supporters — and for seemingly no electoral gain. The Delcon / Defcons are furious. I predicted a Turnbull PM would be the seed to split the Liberal party. Maurice Newman warned the same thing and repeated it again recently. Will Turnbull offer any guarantee he will not bring in Cap N Trade in any form?
A report that recommends putting a price on emissions from the electricity sector has been held back by the Climate Change Authority until after the election, prompting calls from Labor and the Greens that it be made public to inform debate.
The independent authority, whose board is now dominated by appointments made last October by Environment Minister Greg Hunt, was to have released its policy options paper for the power industry by the end of April.
The board, though, decided to withhold the report – along with the large Special Review due out by June 30 – until after the election, “assuming it is called for early July,” the authority said on its website.
While Mr Hunt and his department did not intervene, his office was “very happy” that the electricity sector report’s release was delayed, another source said.
A spokesman for Mr Hunt said his office had not seen the reports. He also dismissed the possibility that the government would have withheld a report favouring a wide-ranging carbon price on the eve of an election.
The CCA electricity report assessed the relative merits of different schemes, and found the emissions-intensive version (see “EI” in the following chart from the report) favoured by Labor to be among the cheaper options.
Most Australians are skeptical: mankind is not main driver of the climate
Which country has the most skeptics? Australia tops name-calling, limited, biased, ambiguous survey!
Why am I not supprised?
340
How many times do we have to vote NO?
250
Yet again I repeat…..
There is no difference between “labor” and “liberal” – all are globalists under the skin.
Both will bring in socialism.
How many times will it take for this reality to sink in?
Old Intelligence maxim – “If something does not make sense, you must seek other sense”…or translated… it means if your view of things doesnt explain things, perhaps you use the wrong filter to explain things.
Howard “Socialist dream of gun control” Howard
Malcolm “A carbon tax by any other name” Turnbull
70
Exactly because they all have the same creditors who dictate the rules of the mortgage.
40
I guess they don’t remember Julia- Miss No Cahbohn Tax.
Did she get a full term before being ousted?
You see what we had to do in the US?
We voted for Trump to show Washington DC we don’t like their choices.
10
At least you had someone to vote for.
00
So it seems we have a choice between those honest enough to announce a planned carbon tax or those hoping to catch people by surprise after the election. The only hope I see is for a very narrow Coalition win with the Nationals holding their numbers. The announcement will split the Liberals and the Nationals are very likely to go with those revolting. If the numbers are right then Turnbull will have to rely on Green votes to bring it in. That would be followed shortly after by Labor and the Greens trying to bring the Government down and force an election. Goodbye Turnbull and Hunt.
350
This brings to light yet another of Tony Abbott’s errors.
NOT getting rid of Greg Hunt out of the climate portfolio.
452
True that, but in his defence I think he was wedged.
122
How uncomfortable !!
82
It is reasonable to consider that from 2009 when he was voted in as leader Tony Abbott was undermined relentlessly by Turnbull and Bishop, and others. Obviously as PM Abbott did not have the full support of his cabinet and the rebels managed to stop him from getting his way on a number of matters.
310
‘PM Abbott did not have the full support of his cabinet…’
It was a hard road and the cabal set out to remove him at the first opportunity.
220
Two errors then. Not getting rid of him and appointing him in the fist place
79
Fair call. But not as big an error as replacing Abbott with Turnbull
130
Replacing
a One World Govt Rhodes Scholar Abbott
with
a One World Govt Rhodes Scholar Turnbull….
And yet we still get socialism…odd….
10
Just another reason my vote for Labor is now locked in. Our faux PM is a pathological liar and basically expects to slither his way into some sort of mandate. I can at least respect Bill Shorten’s honesty on this one and if we are getting a carbon tax either way, it may as well be the one we know about.
205
That’s insane. Shorten will introduce a 50% RET costed at $100 bilhttp://joannenova.com.au/2015/07/labors-want-to-waste-100b-to-make-australian-energy-50-renewable-more-expensive-by-2030/lion.
There is no one in the alp to contain Shorten. I agree Turnbull is a cuckoo but at least there are still opponents to him in the coalition and especially the Nats. The alp is in a race to duplicate North Korea’s energy status.
434
Cohenite,
Mark Textor said you “don’t matter”. It appears you agree with him.
I see no merit in running around like sheeple bleating “Labor bad! Baa, baa!” Defcons know Labor policy is toxic. That is why we must act decisively when the Liberals adopt the same policies.
It is no good winning a single battle just to lose the war. We are faced with leftardulence for three painful years or leftardulence forever. You are arguing for the “leftardulence forever” option.
The “But, but first they must be elected, Turnbull could be controlled after the election” line falls flat. At the time of Turnbull’s first coup attempt, 10’s of thousands of coalition voters wrote, phoned and emailed Liberal MPs. The numbers were unprecedented. The message was clear – “Whatever you do, do not make Turnbull PM”. They listened to the lame scream meeja and their push-polling instead of their voters. The liberals have proved that the only way they are going to get the message is at the ballot box. If you want sensible centre right governance in the future then crushing Turnbull and his quislings at the next election is the only certain way to achieve this.
391
Yeah well textor is part of the establishment which Trump is ripping apart.
2 choices: punish the conservatives for partially betraying their base and optimistically/delusionally expect them to come back abashed and prepared to recover their lost values. This ignores the insurmountable damage shorten and his ratbags, and don’t forget he is a conduit to green horrors, will inflict on Australia.
Or stick with the damaged goods and go flat out to curtail the lessor damage turnbull/hunt can do.
Australia cannot produce a Trump at this stage and the ALA and One Nation, with Malcolm Roberts running in QLD, cannot carry the load against a rampant shorten.
122
Trump is as much the establish,eat as anybody else. You need to define what you mean by that as you are looking pretty sheepish yourself repeating that tired line
27
For me it is a choice between voting for an unelected, lying, smug turd, or sleeping at night. Im going to go with my conscience. If the LNP wins, which they probably will, Malcolm will introduce an ETS anyway, there is simply no doubt.
241
Prime Ministers with very high opinion polls have a lot of control to do what they want.
Prime Ministers with 50/50 polls don’t have much discretion to introduce unpopular policies that will get them decimated at the next election.
140
Well this faux PM had very high opinion polls and has done an excellent job of reducing them to near 50/50. He once crossed the floor to support a Labor ETS and has said nothing that leads me to believe his views have changed at all. He reversed the elected decisions to abolish ARENA and the CEFC, gave away 2 billion at Paris and opened up windfarm investment again. I think it would be a brave person who predicted he will not introduce an ETS if elected.
300
“Prime Ministers with 50/50 polls don’t have much discretion to introduce unpopular policies that will get them decimated at the next election.”…
Turnbull doesnt give a hoot, Lord Jim…
Hes got the prize ..the title of PM….evidence for all to see, hanging in Canberra..
Next “the crown”…President if possible …then Lord of the UN OWG..why stop ..nothing to lose and $$$$$$ more to make…!!
This person has NO conscience…totally arrogrant..an ego, an airbus, would have trouble avoiding..actually thinks he has “blue blood” in those veins, and he and Lucy are much more acceptable than William and Kate…!!
God help us ..What a “shit mess” this Country is now in.!!
p.s.Whats with Turnbulls “orange/gold tie”.. represents the emblem colour of the UN ???
30
Yeah I lean towards your sentiments Safetyguy66. The polity is in disarray.Time will tell ? There is little time.
20
Punish both parties by voting smaller conservative parties, ALA with Angry Anderson and or Darryl HInch party.
This election is not about going to sleep, but it is about the survival of the country. If shorton [snip] comes in he will destroy the country completely with the banana republic, open borders, debt out of control. ETS will be our last worry to think about.
Take voting seriously, it is not about the popcorn or blaze attitude that a lot of people have in this country.
Trust me, I had no right to vote democratically for 20 years elsewhere and did not come to this country to adopt the average Oz attitude about it. Use it wise or shut up when popcorn blows into your face.
[What I removed is not necessary to preserve your meaning and we’d rather be without it.] AZ
130
I suggest people apply for a postal vote and then take their time at home to CAREFULLY number all boxes on the huge ballot paper…….
40
Az
I beg to differ. These unresolved r..p allegations are unresolved and are very pertinent to what we talk about.
Tony,s wink is being disected to the nth degree and you don,t allow this? this is not meant derogatory but statement that is possibly real.
Very disappointed.
20
A Labor win won’t destroy the country – just severly damage it.
How ever a Labor win, will hand the Liberals a lesson they will remember for a generation.
Plus another 4 years of Labour, will give the county as a whole, a lesson they will remember for a generation.
80
Its one we may never recover from…the communist end-goal is very close to its stated aim of delivering australia into slavery.
Old joke amongst leftists –
Q. “Whats the difference between communism and socialism in Australia?”
A. “About 50 years….”
Apathy will kill this country.
60
I agree Turnbull needs to lose and the Liberals need three years in opposition to rebuild as a centre right party. But there is another way than voting Labor. The senate rule changes and Turnbull’s panicked DD election make it oh-so-easy! Especially as the names of every last Turnbullite have been uncovered.
On the green paper:
Vote informal in Turbullite seats.
Vote coalition in all other seats.
On the white paper:
Vote centre right below the line.
Do not number any leftists including Turnbullites.
Yes, the informal on the green approach needs a greater number of Defcons to achieve it, but the advantages to ousting Turnbullites with this green/informal white/centre right voting plan are many:
– No AEC funding is distributed from informal votes.
– Shorten trapped between the ALA in the senate and strong opposition leader Tony Abbott.
– Labor will know that they didn’t win the lower house on policy, but because millions wouldn’t vote for the same policies when the Liberals adopted them.
– The media won’t be able to blame Turnbull’s defeat on Tony Abbott as all the seats lost will be those of Turnbullites
– The Liberals will be purged of leftists and media fearful quislings.
– Labor will have three more years to destroy the remains of their credibility.
– The Liberals will never again obey the media and their 2PP push polling.
Defcons do have the numbers to achieve this. After Turnbull’s usurping, in North Sydney 28% of voters voted informal or did not vote at all. The liberals had to spend $600,000 to lose 30% of the votes they had in 2013. Vote Labor and the media will just claim they won because people wanted more leftist policy. There is a stronger message sent when the Turnbullites lose due to mass informal voting in Turnbullite seats. It will be clear the Liberals lost because of Turnbull and his support for policies of the Labor/Green socialist alliance. The media will have no way to spin or hide the truth as the AEC publishes the informal tally. This time an informal vote will count.
370
The Informal Revolution may well be a defining moment in Australian political history.
To cast an informal vote do I scribble a few words of angst to spoil the ballot?
110
Scribble a few words? Oh please!
Gordo, the green paper has two sides. Pictures tell a thousand words. One side, Lord Bouncy Waffle on his knees felating a Mohammedan camel. The other, thrusting his “Member for Wentworth” into the bird blending blades of a “Veritas?” wind folly.
I need more effort from you. Tim Blair will likely be holding further art competitions. Words alone won’t pass muster.
80
El Gordo, on the green paper make an extra box and place the name Donald Trump beside it and then mark the box. This will firstly make the vote informal and secondly, indicate the type of politician that the Defcons are looking for.
60
Write in Polly McPollyface on your paper Iconoclast.
That way, whoever wins, you’ll have the pleasure of knowing you got who you voted for, even though your vote was counted informal.
50
We don’t have three years. Three years is more than enough for the ALP/Greens to complete the destruction of the capitalist system.
90
I can understand why you feel that way. My feeling is still “A plague on both your houses”.
90
I’d love a reverse election: just like a reverse auction or reverse bingo.
Could we vote for who we would least like to elect? 😉
40
Bill Shorten recently said he would run government like a union. Unions control and manage the ALP and most of the Labor MPs are from the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd economy wrecking, debt creating, chaotic and dysfunctional governments led by those PMs.
To hand power to Union Labor Greens would be a very dangerous decision for our nation which is still recovering from the financial and economic damage inflicted.
120
Bill Shortens dubious background………
http://pickeringpost.com/topic/shorten/13
10
I ALA get up in the Senate,along with some Independents,plus Pauline Hanson is running some people in both the Reps and Senate,”We the People”may finally get rid of these “Deadbeats”who have made a”Career,Doing Nothing”except feathering their own nests,at our expense.
80
Yes, maybe, but what does Union Labor offer in terms of a plan to return budget to balance or surplus, and a plan to retire the well over $400 billion of debt Union Labor are responsible for borrowing after inheriting zero debt?
Noting that NBNCo debt is not included as it is accounted for off federal budget in NBNCo accounting as a government owned private company.
And what will they do about Operation Sovereign Borders? They abandoned Pacific Solution and welcomed over 50,000 illegal immigrants.
Another point, would they forgive the unionists referred to legal agencies for governance and corruption matters discovered during the Trade Union Royal Commission hearings?
Our choice is between two poor alternatives, but very clearly Union controlled and managed Labor would be the worst choice.
30
I’ve been saying as much for years.
It’s what Turnbul “lives” for. It’s what had him removed from the leadership when he jumped into bed with Rudd and labor.Two fingering the majority of the liberal party, Nationals and the Australian people!
His “mission” has never wavered!
I am absolutely certain he understands that the “swinging” voters like me, that didn’t vote for either Gillard or Abbott but did vote for Abbott to remove the CO/2 tax, will again not be there this election. He’s made damned sure of that. As another poster above states, three years in the “wilderness” may put the conservatives back in charge of the liberal party!
There is nothing else that could explain his blinkered electoral stupidity that appears he wants to lose the election or at the very least be removed soon after.
Far easier to hand the election to labor and gaurante his missions completion. Which would then trumpet their electoral “mandate” to gives us another CO/2 tax under the guise of an emissions trading scheme.
What part of the landslide election victory that unequivocally rejected any “breathing” tax don’t these muppets in Canberra understand?!
150
Leigh, the muppets in Canberra understand this very well, they just don’t give a tinkers cuss what the “ordinary” people think, they’re going to do what they want and impose exactly what they want anyhow.
Our job is to make our votes count in a way that hobbles whichever slim majority of them manages to get to place their rumps on the government benches.
The veracity of this report may well still be uncertain, however Turnbulls record on ETS, carbon tax etc is there for all to see if they care to look, and it would indeed be a courageous person who said he would never introduce either. It’s in his DNA, he’ll do it one way or another.
130
BK,I give up, I really do. I’m just so damned angry!
And people scratch their heads and wonder why so many are embracing Trump in America.
It’ll only take one that’s a little more articulate than Hanson to sought these barstards out and he or she can’t come soon enough.
Right now the ALA has my vote on the
“new improved” senate ticket.
Sitting in possibly the safest liberal seat in country NSW and with the safest “fence sitter” in Susan Ley my vote in the house of representatives is simply a waste.
If it takes a massive informal vote right across the country to get it through to these idiots, that the will of the majority of the people must be paramount, so be it!
An eight day, eight week or eight year election campaign is not going to change that.
Has Turnbul really conveniently”forgotten” just what delivered a landslide election victory to an Abbott lead coalition?!
120
The cruel joke is that Trump is unelectable – he has ticked off too many people…hes just a lightning rod to soak up clueless disaffected votes so the real conjouring trick is to make sure Communist Hullary is voted in….
What a choice the USA has :
– a neo Marxist Obumma
– a Communist Hullary
– a Communist Sunders
– a waste of votes Trump
Globally, we seem to have reached the end goal of herding lemmings…er….voters into a thoroughy rigged 2 party system the world over that no matter who you vote for , you get UN-luvin’ communists who want to tax the air we breathe…
Its all going to end in tears…unfortunately…
Freedom will go soon…freedom is anathema to Communism.
25
Originalsteve, The yanks have a history of believing strongly in their constitution, they have been buying guns in huge quantities, when the shit hits the fan they will march on Washington as is their right. We on the other hand do not have the option, Trump right or wrong may be their salvation from an overthrow of the government.
In OZ we have believed in a fair go and our politicians until recently have been real ozzies, now we have a problem that they are all globalists and Oz comes second. Poor fella my country.
40
A thread based on a Fairfax article? If true, why has not the MSM latched onto it?
70
Any inside party information to validate this scaper?
I agree its Fairfax but its also Turnbull and Hunt we’re dealing with.
80
None whatsoever. The last time I spoke to any front bencher was the day before Abbott got knifed. It defies logic.
110
Greg is very happy, that’s nice, so I reckon the leak was orchestrated.
My guess is the Coalition will hold the Abbott line, grow trees and keep their heads down. A small population on a large infertile island needs to become a huge green carbon sink.
So there won’t be an ETS under this government, unless they get to a stage where Greg is forced to buy junk carbon credits from the Eastern Block.
My crystal ball sees Chinese market gardeners across the Never Never, with satellite cities connected by VFT. Am I wrong?
71
“So there won’t be an ETS under this government, “
I might believe that, when I hear them say so in public..
….even then I will be wary.
202
‘when I hear them say so in public..’
In the manner of Julia.
Career politicians cannot be trusted, but I think commonsense will rule the Coalition’s thinking for the moment.
Turnbull wants to woo the Green vote and yet retain the Nats, the strategy has Abbott’s fingerprints all over it.
30
I’d believe it if and when the National Party says it.
Nobody can believe a word Turnbull says. He’s a Gillard cross-dresser when it comes to the truth.
20
“Greg is forced to buy junk carbon credits from the Eastern Block”.
Forced?
Jo was all over this way back in October 2015.
It’s already a “done deal”!
http://joannenova.com.au/2015/10/turnbull-hunt-suggest-carbon-emissions-trading-could-start-mid-2016-thank-gore-and-palmer-for-the-open-door/
Turnbul simply will not deviate from introducing an emissions trading scheme.”Winning” the election gives him, what he believes, is a mandate and if he’s out, it’ll still be done by the labor party who will also trumpet they have a mandate to introduce one .
Why do we bother with elections when the politicians believe they are a law unto themselves?!
100
I have to admit, Australian politics is a complete mystery to anyone from another country.
Your politicians have been trying to ram this carbon tax thing down your throats for years now, you tell them repeatedly you don’t want it but they keep trying. They’ll lie to you about it, they’ll try to trick you into it, it just keeps coming back. It’s bizarre.
Must be nice to live in a country that has to invent a fake problem to continually fight over.
Your politicians are way overpaid and are in need of a serious wake-up call.
150
Klem, it can be summed up by a late early treasurer Paul Keating who then proceeded to sell the rest of our sovereign bank in 1997
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1990s_recession_in_Australia#.22The_recession_we_had_to_have.22
Here is what he said from Wikipedia:
“The first thing to say is, the accounts do show that Australia is in a recession. The most important thing about that is that this is a recession that Australia had to have – Treasurer Paul Keating, November 1990.”
In this case, we are experiencing the Price On Carbon We Had To Have (POCWHTH) and the Fuel Reduction Burns We Had To Have (FRBWHTH)…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-07/sydney-left-with-dangerous-air-quality/7393104
This process of converting what is left of australian forests and wildlife into a plantation timber monoculture is a massive problem. The air quality in victoria Gippsland close to a coal fired power station where i live is pristine and that i can rarely can even smell is trivial compared to the burning, day in day out for months at a time each year around here and in a variety of regions in Au recently. Last year i had to purchase some air purifiers the air wuality was so bad.
Needless to say it is very difficult to get good honey due to the massive deforestation and conversion of native forest into an alleged Carbon sink. Mostly we can only get “mixed blossom” rather than from flowering gums that are extinct in their areas of known providence.
………Mainly to burn and convert native forest “residue” after intensive logging so that it can then be converted to plantation forest carbon sinks.
In a normal native forest, a fire usually is not able to get into the top canopy of the forest and remains on the forest floor. The wild fires and such are in many cases the direct result a fire jumping up into the canopy of much shorter immature trees in areas where logging has recently occurred.
43
Mike
Re. Normal native forest, You are generalising far to much. The subject is far to big and diversified for such a simple statement.
Doug
40
A normal native forest contains slow growing Australian native plants. I have conducted private bush regeneration and worked with a few bush regeneration projects. I can say from experience that pulling weeds and injecting the stems of blackberries with posion is to help a native forest get back to normal, if not enough is done, it is quickly overgrown and suffocated with weed species compared to if the forest floor is not sufficiently colonized.
A well colonized native forest resists weed species and thus is a vastly reduced fire hazard and canopies rarely catch fire, nor is the fire front as fast moving due to the fact that natives usually remain green at least in part.
This talk of rapid fuel build up refers to weed species.
My last example is of a fire in a plantation that led to the Morwell Open Cut Mine Fire….. I drive past the burnt bluegum plantation regularly and can say it does not have a canopy any more. The Bluegum comes back to life by sprouting leaves over the entire charred remains of the tree, including the base of the tree. It is a bigger fire hazard now than it was than before the fire swept through it IMO. It is as though the canopy is all the way to the ground with leaves growing from top to bottom Gum leaves contain oil. In this case, the leaves cover the burnt trunks like a fungus.
10
“the leaves cover the burnt trunks like a fungus.” should be, the leaves and new branches cover the burnt trunks like a fungus.
10
In the meantime, here in Australia protesting about deforestation, the traditional ‘green’ cause is a criminal activity and has been usurped by the Carbon Greens who can protest about coal and a be acquitted with a get out of jail free card, because, according to some, Carbon Green is Real.
http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/montana-coal-protesters-argue-necessity-defense/
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/sep/11/activists.kingsnorthclimatecamp
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/sep/10/activists.carbonemissions
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-greenpeace-idUKLA34747320080910
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/08/da_drops_charges_against_anti_coal_activists_says_hell_see_them_at_the_climate_march/
50
Klem, compulsory voting might be of significance.
10
Five candidates.. just write a 5 in each box.
13
Klem, to quote Colonel Bludnock from the Goons (you probably don’t know who they were) – “I don’t know who you are, Sir, but you have done me a power of good!”
20
Bluebottle…stand on this spring board….
Compulsory voting in this country is necessary *if* and only *if* you want to maintain illusion of govt.
If it was non-compulsory, it would make politicians actually have to provide real options. Instead of which, its just a rigged shotting-rats-in-a-barrel system that guarantess some one wins, but I’d suggest only the drovers dog is worthy….
20
When I was droving up around Gunnedah in the 60s we had a couple of dogs. Blue Healers. They’d never do what they were told until the boss drover nutted them.
That made a difference.
20
Don’t forget that the carbon trading scam/fraud case has opened in France
https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2016/05/03/multi-billion-euro-carbon-trading-fraud-trial-opens-in-paris/
20
So,your OK with what Turdbull has done to the Lib Part,against “Our”wishes?Then there is the appointment to his ministry of a “Green”wanna-be Politician.I can connect the dots.Can you?
90
Quite simply; Goldman Sachs wants it so Malcolm will deliver it for them.
Representative Democracy is a figment of imagination.
I vote for a slow bank drain (run?). That’ll PRICK their bubble.
210
This is what I suspect is driving things. Not necessarily GS, but the entire banking, finance etc sectors that see this as simply money for jam.
180
I don’t know why we keep on insinuating that it’s the bankers driving this.
I think we need to give a little more thought to that meme.
It ‘s my view that the subversive left loves to push that line. It’s a false flag.
Those who want this Carbon impost are the green-left eco-socialists in conjunction with the bitter-hearted failed Communists and the ideologically driven anti-Westerners.
Blaming the bankers is just too convenient. Bankers do what bankers do. They take advantage of stupid governments and stupid government policies to make a quid for their share-holders.
Look closely and you’ll see it’s governments of all political persuasions that have their hands in your pockets.
The banks? No. The ANZ, for example, gives me a better than 7% (fully franked) dividend currently; which in my Super Fund, delivers a return of 10% when bulked up. It’s the thieving socialists who persist in robbing that account – Turnbull, the green socialist, included.
20
SS
I suggest you do some reading.
Ask yourself why Australia has always had a ~2% higher interest rate regime than other equivalent developed economies?
Even before Federation the State/Colony premiers & treasurers had to regularly go back to London & beg the Colonial Office & the Old Lady ( Tart) of Threadneedle Street for money.
They sent Otto Niemeyer, their 2nd IC, out here to ensure their directives were adhered to.
Their instruments ( derivatives of the Round Table ) were behind the citizens militias.
Look up Captain de Groote.
Look up how many GS heavies are running central banks, treasuries & finance ministries, particularly in the EU.
Australia has ALWAYS needed foreign capital & that ALWAYS influences policy & action.
Governments of all persuasions are beholden to those who allow them to exist – the Banks.
/ tin hat.
20
Incoming. Take cover,
Of course it has, and does.
How else did we manage to develop this country to the level we have, within a period of 228 years, without foreign direct investment? By selling Boomerangs?
Appropriate policy settings are necessary to achieve that result.
However, putting a dead-weight Carbon tax on those productive enterprises that have in many cases been financed by foreign direct investment (from the very same bankers you assert are driving this rort) is not a strategy that makes sense. Or an ETS.
Their very investments are put at risk with this Carbon tax or ETS stupidity. It increases their costs. It makes them less competitive on the international stage.
How much profit do you calculate they (these bankers of yours) make from each ETS trade they facilitate? If it comes from the commission then it’s small beer. If it comes from taking a position then it’s a risk and, even if they manage to stay on the right side of the trade, after losses are taken into account it’s still small beer.
Landmines ahead.
20
Yep!!….True right Sceptical Sam.
10
The big money is not in the investments, but in the debt that these investments can generate. The bailouts, restructured loan process and so on.
It is like war, the money is not in the weapons sales, the big money is in the debt that is created in the aftermath.
20
Mike,
If the enterprise goes belly-up everybody, banks included, take a hair-cut.
It’s called bankruptcy. Cents in the dollar for the creditors.
You need to explain to us how sending businesses broke generates profits for those banks that provided the investment in the first place.
OK, so a little while back the government of the USA bailed out some banks which had got caught up in syndicated loans.
Ask yourself what policies brought about the innovation called syndicated debt?
If you’re not sure just ask freddie mac and fannie mae. Then ask what entity got the ball rolling? And why?
10
I would ask which banks?
Central banks or the small banks?
“OK, so a little while back the government of the USA bailed out some banks”
So if the government bailed out the industry, why did it not broker the loan on behalf of the constituents so that the government could at least earn some interest?
20
I haven’t seen the stated reason for that decision Mike.
However, I suspect it has to do with the fractional reserve banking system which would make it far less expensive to bail the banks than to bail the borrowers; probably around the 1:10 ratio or less – depending on the money multiplier used by the banks.
00
Richard Di Natalie said on ABC this week “the overwhelming majority of Australians support strong action on climate change”.
As usual with the greens and warmist delusional types in general. This is an assertion that not only is backed by no hard facts, it flies in the face of the clear and recent observational evidence of the Abbott election win. I don’t think Tony could have done much more to make it crystal clear he intended to unwind the government waste on weather control experiments, yet Di Natalie continues to espouse the complete lie that people actually want the opposite.
351
The tool was out on the water at Newcastle today with the Breakfree 2016 protest against coal, too.
120
Maybe he thinks 97% want it…….
10
Find out who your local libertarian is and vote for them.
60
Its not damaging enough Mark. The only way to hurt Turnbull is to vote for Shorten. A spell on the benches may help the LNP remember how it got elected last time, it may not. Either way they are a lost cause right now.
102
It has occurred to some of us that Turnbull will have achieved his goal if he gets Shorten elected. There will be significant carbon taxes , useless renewable energy generators and no plebiscite on homo marriage. Turnbull couldn’t get it better for his wishlist even if he won the election (and had to fight all the conservatives in the Coalition on both issues). Perhaps Turnbull realises your average voter is pretty easy to fool.
150
Good thoughts llew, his career is essentially a businessman and a very good one, I’ve also witnessed a couple of QC’s in action, very quick on their feet and 100 steps ahead of everyone else.
40
llew jones:
So Labor gets in narrowly relying on increased number of Green seats.
Labor gets all the blame for carbon tax etc..
Greens and Liberals push them into election where Labor refights Little Big Horn.
Liberals back in but with Greens as official opposition after Labor dumped.
No roll back on ETS etc.
New Conservative party starts showing up in polls as economy goes into reverse.
Seems possible.
60
I still hope for Labor win, Coalition senate control, Turbull turfed, double dissolution, return to polls.
I had a dream…
111
Better the second worst option than the Union controlled Labor option.
72
But if the Coalition could block supply, then no damage could be done (Turnbull could not possibly survive as leader after an election loss)
80
Blocking supply is no longer an option by agreement between the alternative governments.
10
That’s why it is so difficult to decide what to do this time.
40
Yes, you all seem very confused and have retreated into fantasy revenge scenarios. I didn’t realise it had gotten quite this serious on the rightwing side of politics. (Sorry, sorry…’Centre Right’ of politics.) Right wing voters have this ‘thing’ about being called right wing.
Me? Left wing and proud. Voting Labor with no qualms. I hope Malcolm joins Abbott, Rudd, and Gillard in that group of hopelessness.
[A classic inflammatory shot which ignores the post content. Yawn. ] Jo
19
Which is why I stay out of Australian politics. Cross-party agreements in the Westminster tradition are one thing, but the apparent ability for Australian politicians to buy votes from one another is an anathma to me. How in Hades do Australians know who or what they are voting for, when the rules seem to be so highly “creative”.
I think I will take a nap, until it is all over.
130
Llew – that is true as fas as it goes (achieving his aims on climate change, gay marriage, etc!) but you have ignored his main aim – to be PM until he can be the President. I think that will trump all, and he may be prepared to sacrifice his lesser aims for that one. We have to get rid of him, and there is only one way to do it, no matter how painful that may be in the short term.
30
Maybe this is actually TURNCOAT TURNBULL’S agenda.
Get his alp/green mates elected.
30
Greg Hunt, 27 April 2016:
“Bill Shorten has announced a massive new electricity tax – but he didn’t have the courage or the honesty to tell Australian families how much it will cost them.
Mark Butler and Bill Shorten are kidding themselves. Australians are too smart to fall for Labor’s tricks.
We’ve all been through Labor’s carbon tax experiment before. We all know what it involves.
The only way Labor’s new carbon tax is different is that it will be even more painful for Australian families and business.
We know this because Labor commissioned the modelling while they were in Government – and the findings are shocking.
Labor’s modelling of Labor’s policy when Labor was in Government showed that to achieve a similar target, wholesale electricity prices would need to be 78% higher in 2030. This would drive up electricity costs for Australian families, pensioners and businesses.
Labor’s own modelling also showed Australian income per person would be a whopping $4,900 lower than it would be without Labor’s new carbon tax in 2030.
It would have a devastating impact on the Australian economy, jobs, incomes and we would see power prices skyrocket.
When asked on 3AW this morning, on at least eight occasions Mark Butler refused to say that the cost of living wouldn’t rise under Labor’s carbon tax.
That’s because he knows the truth! We’ve seen it all before.
Bill Shorten and Mark Butler are also kidding themselves when they say an Emissions Trading Scheme isn’t a carbon tax.
At least Julia Gillard and Joel Fitzgibbon were honest when they said it’s the same thing.”
http://www.greghunt.com.au/Home/LatestNews/tabid/133/ID/3749/Bill-Shortens-massive-new-electricity-tax.aspx
100
Yet if Turn-all-bull gets in as PM, we can almost certainly expect an ETS.
I DARE him or Greg Hunt to come out and straight down the line, make the statement….
“Under a Turnbull Government, THERE WILL BE NO PRICE OF ANY SORT ON CARBON”
Surely then, even Turnbull would not want to mirror Gillard and retract it after the election.
But that statement is not going to happen, is it.
193
Really?
I think that coming out after Hunt’s statement and introducing an ETS of any sort would be a political suicide note.
82
THEN LET’S HEAR THEM SAY SO !!
Contact Greg Hunt.. try to get him to utter the words, “NO ETS, NO CARBON PRICE“,..
… and to do it IN PUBLIC.
I bet you can’t !!
173
“NO ETS, NO CARBON PRICE“,..
Why upset the Greens unnecessarily, Greg is only flying a kite and may decide to put the report in the bottom draw after the election.
They would rather not talk about climate change during this election, the science is settled.
50
““NO ETS, NO CARBON PRICE“,..”
That one statement could make all the difference between them winning the election if they make it…
or losing if they don’t.
Afterall, that was the ploy Gillard and Swan used to give them enough votes to hang the previous election.
They knew the worth of that statement, even though they never had any intention of sticking to it.
82
And by not sticking to it they became unstuck…
I think it would take an amazing degree of political ineptitude to repeat that exact same mistake on the same scale within a decade of its last occurrence.
50
“an amazing degree of political ineptitude to repeat that exact same mistake “
And that is why we will NOT hear those words from Turnbull or Hunt before the election no matter how much they are pushed to say them.
An ETS is an end game for Turnbull, so he can’t come out and say it isn’t.
63
Do you not remember him saying just last week that he is as”Committed to Climate Change” as anyone?I do!
30
It’s the National Party that needs to say it.
The Nationals.
for goodness sake. Can’t you see it? Can’t the Nationals?
Can somebody get Barnaby to pull his finger out and speak up.
That ripped $100 bill is starting to look like a real necessity. (But I’d rather give it to Jo to help with the running of this site).
20
“Will Turnbull offer any guarantee he will not bring in Cap N Trade in any form?”
Turnbull’s own comments past, including: “I will not lead a party that is not as committed to effective action on climate change as I am.” (ABC, 2009); and his description of Direct Action as “an exercise in fiscal recklessness.”
ABC, 2011: Impassioned Turnbull defends climate change science
120
There is no denying that Turnbull and Hunt are ignorant zealots, but it was a few years ago and since then they may have modified their stance for political reasons.
Still, they have been brainwashed and we’ll need an Informal Revolution to set them straight.
50
el gordo.
The “Informal Revolution”.
Now, that’s got legs, surely.
It certainly beats: “The Bill, the whole Bill and nothing but the Bill. Eh?
10
Handjive,exactly.
30
Election on 2nd July 2016 just announced by Malcolm as accepted by the Governor General. Also on the Bolt report, Peter Beattie saying Turnbull is fine, but (currently) too influenced by the ‘right’ of the Liberal party. Translated Turnbull is one of us, after the next election. What Peter does not realise is that Turnbull is Green, not Labor.
After the next election, these will be two distinct political groups. The Greens target is not Liberal, it is Labor and old Labor stalwarts like Beattie will be flat footed. Plus the Nationals, formerly led by Barnaby Joyce for a few months.
Malcolm will be true to his family Labo(u)r history and create a new extreme political party, the Liberal Greens, the Turnbull party. Watch for his Lord Mayor wife to take an active part as they dictate the future of Australia, free from any silly ideas about conservative politics or Union or farmers. It will be about the X generation post baby boomers who do not need farmers or miners or unions and love to spend the Government’s money.
130
TdeF:
The world is in a depression and will be for many years; stagnant (or collapsing if ETS comes) Australian economy. Deflation will reduce tax receipts but payouts will continue, sending Welfare States broke. The only bright spots will be China, Sth. Korea, Japan (?), India, Indonesia, Sth. Africa and anyone else building coal power stations and hydro plants.
Europe are just about ready to dump Green policies; neither the UK or Germany want them but need an excuse to reverse course. This may well be a vote by UK to leave the EU, followed by Scotland trying to get into the EU for subsidies for their wind power when England tells them they don’t want it any more.
Denmark, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Poland and Hungary are all against more greenery.
We would wind up isolated, broke and all those Gen X will find out the hard way that you can’t spend what you haven’t got.
140
Half the population does not believe Global Warming, if only because it is just not true according to thermometers, even to an accuracy 0.1C. Whether nothing happening is due to CO2 or not, nothing is happening and this without any explanation.
The other half do not mind at all if someone else pays the taxes, presumably the ‘rich’. However they know they will have to pay direclty or indirectly and it will affect every part of their lives. The carbon tax is still devastating Tasmania as greedy politicians sold all their water.
So the politicians, people paid far more than they are worth, far more than people are allowed save in their compulsory superannuation are the only ones who want it. For politicians on all sides it is job insurance, nothing more. Of course for the former head of Goldmann Sachs, it is a licence for his friends to print money for nothing. Goldmann Sachs were major beneficiaries of the GFC. What is their involvement in carbon credits, expensive bits of basically worthless paper printed overseas.
It is unbelievable that a very rich (former) merchant banker would bring in a trading scheme which benefits his friends. Even Clive Palmer had to pretend he had no business responsibilities and conflict of interest like his $6Million carbon tax bill but Malcolm Turnbull to make this the centrepiece of his entire political career just stinks. There, at least someone has said it.
Taxation without representation. The cry of the oppressed from the days of Magna Carta.
100
TdF, please rethink the banker line.
Turnbull is a green socialist. He does nothing for the bankers, he merely insinuated himself into their business to better understand how to bring them and our free-market system down.
He’s a subversive. Think on that, because you have an intuitive feel for the current predicament. But I don’t see the bankers being the drivers. They’ll the vultures perhaps – ready to clean up when the dopes like Turnbull provide the right environment.
Cart – Horse.
10
“They’re” not “They’ll”.
And I can’t even blame autocorrect.
And one slight amendment:
“how to bring them and our
free-marketcurrent system down.”10
I’ve been saying it for years TdeF.
Confirmation was a quick look at Turnbuls publicly listed port folio.
Track it down and then follow the “bouncing” ball through his investments.
One sticks out like the proverbial.
I promised Jo I’d make no accusations of any wrong doing. So I won’t.
But it does appear some of his business investments have a percieved clash of interest as Prime Minister of Australia and his support of the global warming ideolygy.
00
Tdef; you’re sure you haven’t been thinking about this maybe a little too hard?
Turnbull is a Liberal. The big end of town is his town. He MAY have some greenish leanings, but never at the expense of ‘big money’.
54
Ross, no. It just all fits, to think the unthinkable.
The pieces fell together with the VFT, a classic Liberal policy? As for the big end of town, Turnbull is worth $200Million, one of the richest people in the country with no debts, no employees, no specific things to do and easily the richest politician. Now what would get him out of bed in the mornings? Why enter politics at fifty if not to be PM and create your own history and specifically your own political party? Check his personal and family history and you get the picture. A psychiatrist would have a field day for motivation. He knows exactly what he is doing and has created his own image. Now he wants his own country and place in history.
80
I dunno, TdeF. I still think you see monsters where there is simply a man in search of validation.
Turnbull has certainly achieved a lot in life, and accumulated a shirt load of cash.
But he also has a huge ego, which needs feeding.
Being rich is one thing. To be king, another.
Being Prime Minister, is simply ticking the final box on Malcoms ‘to do’ list.
A psychiatrist would consider this fairly textbook.
Vote Labor… It’ll be a healthy learning experience for him.
16
Turdbull is even more “Left”than Bill Short-on Brains.Remember,he wanted to join Labour but was too far “Left” even them.
60
TdeF:
Thinking it over the possibilities break down to.
1. Turnbull loses. End of T but we get Shorten who will be worse.
2. Turnbull wins big. Game over although any attempt to introduce ETS/carbon tax will have to rely on Opposition support to get through the Reps. as party will split and Nationals will be against.
Chances of Turnbull making it to Xmas as PM unlikely.
3. Turnbull wins narrowly. If he tries to introduce ETS/carbon tax etc. Liberals split and Nationals turn against him as well. He will soon become ex-PM. and legislation may not get through Reps. even with opposition support.
Any hope of the Senate blocking legislation is nonsense. Greens, Labor and Xenophon will let it through. Voting against Turnbull supporters would help an obvious signal to the Party.
So the strategy in the Reps. should be to return the Liberals with a much reduced majority (and with as many anti-Turnbull members as possible) and with the Nationals the same or more seats. By voting for independents or ALA etc. will deprive the Libs. of money from first votes, and give them sleepless nights until distributions are completed.
61
There are another couple of scenarios
1a) My “Goldilocks” scenario – where everything is just right.
Shorten wins but Coalition controls the Senate. Turnbull would get dumped for losing the election and the Coalition could block supply to send us back to the polls with a more conservative leader.
4) The doomsday scenario
Neither party wins either house and The Greens hold the balance in both. Di Natale ends up as Deputy PM and The Greens get to both form policy and pass legislature.
90
“The Venus atmosphere is 96.5% carbon dioxide, and supposedly superheated due to a runaway greenhouse effect, yet that portion of it within the pressure bounds of the Earth atmosphere is remarkably like the Earth in temperature. This is student-level analysis, and could not have been neglected by climate scientists, if they were not rendered incompetent by their dogmatic belief in the greenhouse hypothesis. (Again, the overwhelming extent of fundamental incompetence exhibited by scientists today is the real underlying story.) This result also flies in the face of those who would say the clouds of Venus reflect much of the incident solar energy, and that therefore it cannot get 1.91 times the power per unit area received by the Earth — the direct evidence presented here is that its atmosphere does, in fact, get that amount of power, remarkably closely. This in fact indicates that the Venusian atmosphere is heated mainly by incident infrared radiation from the Sun, which is not reflected but absorbed by Venus’s clouds, rather than by warming first of the planetary surface. (It also indicates that the Earth atmosphere is substantially warmed the same way, during daylight hours, by direct solar infrared irradiation, and that the temperature profile, or lapse rate, for any planetary atmosphere is relatively oblivious to how the atmosphere is heated, whether from above or below.) This denies any possibility of a “greenhouse effect” on Venus (or on Earth), much less a “runaway” one. This has already been pointed out recently by physicists Gerlich and Tscheuschner, who have written succinctly, “…since the venusian atmosphere is opaque to visible light, the central assumption of the greenhouse hypotheses [sic] is not obeyed.” Yet they are ridiculed by climate scientists, who thus behave like spoiled children who refuse to be chastised by their parents.”
http://theendofthemystery.blogspot.com/2010/11/venus-no-greenhouse-effect.html
111
The ABC needs to be abolished .
All ‘True B’lvers’ need to ousted from the coalition but not at the expense of losing the election to ‘Carbon Pollution Bill’and his ratbag circus show .
Australia will not survive another 3 years of version 2.0 of the Rudd Gillard Rudd economic destruction years with many of the same culprits still there.
Many of their junk policies were locked in prior to the last election with labor in control of both houses and as such rushing through all their rubbish before being ousted .
But even with Abbott’s 2013 win , this was only the lower house , and was therefore mostly powerless to throw out most of what needed to be thrown out .
Now i suspect it could end up worse with the cross benches being thrown out in favor of more green CAGW medievalists and ‘Prayer Wheel’ racketeers.
Personally , I will not vote for any ‘true b’lvers’ , but voting for Shady Shorty is far worse than voting for Malcom the True B’lverBull.
It’s simply a case of the lesser evil . not an ideal choice , but labor cannot be allowed back in or we are really in for grief .
If the alp are able to con their way back in , their great big new ‘airtax’ to finance their multi-billion dollar squanderthons will just be the beginning of our pain and the economic demise of our once good country .
91
I don’t think so,
Actually I think that the changes to senate voting is going to result in more independents particularly in a DD election where you only need 8% to win a seat. Protest votes will elect inde senators and there is going to the a rather large protest this election. Just make sure the inde you vote for is really a conservative – no ETS under any circumstances type. Above the line senate votes are a lot like house votes – protest votes are going to count, but it won’t be a lottery any more.
Don’t vote for conservative in name only (CINO) candidates like Mal’s merry band of 54 Assassins. Lets just create a conservative balance of power in the senate by putting conservative independents first on the senate ticket
70
Amen to that,bobl.
40
The ABC needs to be abolished. No Egor. No it does not.
“All the ‘True B’levers’ in the coalition need to be ousted but not at the expense of losing the election.”
Hmmm. Considering a majority of ”True B’levers’ (getting old, isn’t it?) would be over half the Federal Liberal Party, it hard to see how they could retain government.
So…either vote for the demons that stabbed Saint Tony in the face, or get used to opposition.
[As usual, no substantive points to argue a case, misses the point of this post and the last three on this topic. – Jo]
06
“Ninety nine percent of the atmosphere lies below the 10 hPa pressure level. The elevation at 10 hPa is just thirty kilometres. The surface circulation rotates in the same direction as the Earth at a faster rate than the rotation of the Earth itself. The atmosphere at 10 hPa super-rotates at an even faster speed. It appears that the atmosphere is an electromagnetic medium where the motive force contributing to the winter circulation increases with elevation, particularly over the pole. Recent research identifies a response of the zonal (east-west) wind in high latitudes to geomagnetic phenomena. As an electromagnetically responsive medium, the upper atmosphere, and it seems also the weather-sphere, is impacted by the solar wind because it changes the electric fields. The response to this change is via the distribution and the concentration of ozone and other trace gases. We know this because there is a change the height of the ‘tropopause’ that is linked to geomagnetic activity. Accordingly, what is described here is ultimately linked to activity on the sun.
On the perimeter of the Antarctic continent intense upper air troughs are formed that propagate downwards towards the surface as an ascending circulation with the cellular structure of a polar cyclone. Meteorologists monitor the strong winds of the jet stream at 250 hPa but these are not the strongest winds in the polar circulation. In mid winter the strongest winds are to be found at the highest altitudes. Essentially the circulation responses to forces aloft rather than forces at the surface.”
https://reality348.wordpress.com/
60
My prediction is that Turnbull, if he wins this election, will begin the process of forming a coalition with the Greens for the election after this one…. at some point he will dump the Nationals and form an alliance with the Greens. As soon as the numbers swing in that favor.
The other thing Malcolm Turnbull wants, is to go down in history as the “Father of the Australian Republic”. He will do anything to achieve that.
The only thing that remains to be seen is whether Turnbull can co opt the political numbers to achieve his aims. He has so far.
Warren Truss the recent ex-leader of the Nationals made a huge strategic mistake when he allowed the Liberal party to spill Tony Abbott. The moment Turnbull became PM the Nationals had effectively signed themselves into political obscurity. The National Party was too blind to see that it had no future with a Turnbull controlled Liberal Party.
The Greens see themselves as the “New” liberalism….. and Turnbull wants to lead a “Liberal” party that is part of a global movement. He thinks he can compete with China and undermine its Politburo at a purely ideological level within the region…..
By accepting this French Submarine deal the has effectively withdrawn Australia from being a reliable defense ally within our own region. He has strained our relationship with Japan and America in an attempt to placate China. Our alliance partners now see us as untrustworthy and without a serious military capability we are a useless ally anyway. China sees us as obedient to their regional supremacy.
Not only that, Turnbull will introduce a “Carbon Market” that will make us utterly reliant upon China, while forcing all developed countries to avoid us because of our carbon tax imposts on electricity and trade. Australian manufacturing will be obliterated. China, India and other developing economies will be our sole trading partners…. and we’ll pay through the nose for it.
To get rid of Turnbull, we are just going to have to vote Labor in those 54 Quisling seats of the House of Representatives and vote for Liberal and National party candidates in the Senate…. Either that, or just accept Turnbull’s brand new “liberalism” where rentseeking and Mussolini style government regulated corporationalism replaces free enterprise.
It’s rather depressing that the rentseekers are in such commanding positions all the time…. But politics is their game, not ours. After all. They do make the entirety of their living from it.
110
I agree with the notion that he will look to form an alliance with The Greens. I actually think this is probably already in motion and a big reason behind the changes to senate voting which is likely to increase the greens vote.
130
TdeF has outlined this quite a few times. If makes total sense if you view Turnbull as a self-interested, unscrupulous power seeker – ie you seem him as he really is.
110
It’s politics. Of course it’s about power! What do you think Tony… and Kevin…and Julia…and John were trying to achieve? Gaining power. Keeping power. The name of the game.
If you don’t understand that simple fact, you are, and shall forever remain… a Delcon.
25
Turnbull IS a self-interested, unscrupulous power seeker – ie you seem him as he really is.There,fixed it for you,Analitik.
50
At least he will be among friends…
10
Interesting this fantasy and the no names that are promulgating it. Anyway I don’t subscribe to consp…
Anyway. Who here seriously thinks that the greens would form a coalition with the Liberals?
12
Who would have thought they would have voted with them on the Senate reforms? If you read The Greens facebook that day, it was rabid, some welded on supporters really baying for blood over it. Dick DiNatalie is a different animal to Milne or Brown. Considering Malcolm wants to introduce an ETS, siding with the greens could be a good excuse to do it. I don’t regard it as a conspiracy any more than I have ever thought AGW was. Its just another happy coincidence of unscrupulous self interest.
50
Self interest.
They think they will get more votes that way.
The Greens also voted with Abbott, iirc, to get rid of the debt ceiling (which, in retrospect, was probably unfortunate).
10
I wouldn’t trust the Greens,as far as I could throw them.What-ever it takes!
60
What we can do to protest without letting the worst of all option of Union controlled Labor into power again;
http://stopturnbull.com/what-can-we-do-a-conservative-electoral-strategy/
50
Go to stopturnbull.com,for some helpful advice.
30
A Liberal Green coalition would kill Labor and the Unions. This will be used by many Liberals to justify the coalition. Remember that Labor are not Greens and Greens are not Labor.
Labor is being forced to support Carbon taxes which kill industry, employment, incentive and cripple the country. The only justification is that Green preferences give them the jobs, so they are more Green than the Greens.
Greens have no interest in the Unions, apart from Union funding but if they get enough seats, the funding will be there. Funding is about influence and a successful party gets funding. So the Labor Green alliance is nothing more than opportunism by both. If the Malcolm comes calling and is prepared to go with Green signature policies like a VFT and a Carbon tax and stopping the boat turnbacks and lots of real Labor seats, they will swap in a heartbeat.
40
Andrew Bolt, Daily Telegraph
It goes from bad to worse. Lin Hatfield Dodds the Green Senate candidate for the ACT for two elections running has been appointed a deputy secretary in Prime Minister and Cabinet in charge of all things social policy. Many Liberal MPs apoplectic. PM one suspects was consulted. If not tells us all we need to know about Turnbull’s appointment of Martin Parkinson (as PMC head).
Bureaucrats upset as well because of lack of public service experience.
110
Plum public service cabinet jobs in the new Turnbull government for inexperienced Green politicians. An obvious payoff, for what? Guess.
150
In the wild there are many techniques to get to the top. It is a jungle in Canberra. One of the deadliest creatures is known as the ambush predator.
“Ambush predators or sit-and-wait predators are carnivorous animals or other organisms, such as some nematophagous fungi and carnivorous plants, that capture or trap prey by stealth or by strategy rather than by speed or by strength.”
As you all know, the facts point to an ambush at the coming election. It is not as if we have not already seen this strategy in operation before. Of course Liberal MPs are apoplectic. They have seen nothing yet as control of their own party is taken away from them along with preselection and all policy.
They have time to act while still in their jobs but I suspect most would rather go into comfortable superannuated retirement without a final battle.
60
Says it all,really.
10
More on this green traitor nut “Lin Hatfield Dodds”…….
The PM employs Lin Hatfield-Dodds from The Greens as architect for The Turnbulls’ vision of a new society:-
http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2016/05/on-tuesday-8-december-2015-lucy-and-malcolm-turnbull-hadthe-ceo-of-uniting-carelin-hatfield-doddsover-to-kirribilli-house-th.html
20
I don’t understand why so many are surprised. It’s inevitable that all Western governments are desperate for new taxes to help (and fail) to pay for their insatiable appetite for spending.
70
Jo,
as per your headline
Report suggesting new carbon tax for Australia hidden until after election
and as per
Dennis
May 8, 2016 at 5:51 pm · Reply – post above
just to re-inforce
With Turncoat Turnbull doing this
Greens candidate now a deputy head of Turnbull’s department
It goes from bad to worse. Lin Hatfield Dodds the Green Senate candidate for the ACT for two elections running has been appointed a deputy secretary in Prime Minister and Cabinet in charge of all things social policy. Many Liberal MPs apoplectic. PM one suspects was consulted. If not tells us all we need to know about Turnbull’s appointment of Martin Parkinson (as PMC head).
Bureaucrats upset as well because of lack of public service experience.
Would not trust Turnbull to keep it at 24%, would see him ramping it up past Labor
See this wall to wall and see what happens to the 50:50 Current power price x Coalition increase approx. 24% ALP increase approx. 40%
Would not trust Turnbull and his Wife Lucy, who seems to run Turnbull, as far as I could throw them.
As Del-Con will be voting against Turnbull – Shorten Labor is a better choice than a Turnbull Labor Lite Traitor
92
I agree with old Ozzie. Vote labor!
28
Electricity bill shorten…..NO THANKS !
40
No, Shorten Union controlled Labor would be worse.
Not a better choice.
90
The pen is mightier than the pencil………so no matter what, make sure you BYO pen 🙂
20
you cannot vote for ‘carbon Bill’ , just because Malcom TurnTrueB’lverBull might bring in a co2 tax under the guise of an ETS (same thing).
The coalition ,even with the TurnCoat at the helm is by far still much better than the ALP cronies led by science illiterate ‘Carbon Bill’.
For how they left this country’s finances at their well deserved 2013 ousting , they should be in handcuffs , not opposition !
If any had done a fraction of what they did between 2007 and 2013 in a private company , they would be jailed for decades , and yet here we go again for another possible 3 year minimum .
Please don’t seriously consider electing a ‘Shady Shorty’led ALP just to spite Malcom the TrueB’lverBull.
This Country cannot afford another term with the ALP circus de Freaks at the helm.
If that were to happen , i would fear that our country would be unrecoverable even with a 2019 return of a proper , non true b’lver conservative coalition .
62
It depends on whether you want a quick or slow death. Under the Libs it will be slow, under Labor it will be quick.
30
In my opinion passing the government between the two traditional alternatives is a poor choice.
If we can achieve change long term we have to reject them both and ensure that both feel our anger at the ballot box.
They both work on our short memories and preoccupation with our own lives.
Given that there is no third obvious alternative our best course of action is to deny the majors our primary votes and Senate control.
50
Yes, there are plenty of other conservatives to vote for especially in the senate, find them and give them the seats. This election senators need to only win about 8% of the vote to win a seat, without the preferance lottery for the last senate seats those indie seats will go to the protest vote leaders – That means ALA, KAP on the Conservative end and greens on the ALP end I think.
One thing long forgotten is that there are quite a few ALP voters that are also sceptics and OPPOSED TO Carbon Taxes of which less than 20% of voters want meaning that less than 50% of labor voters support. This policy is Shortens Achilles heel this is the wedge to slice off labor votes to conservatives in the senate.
Talk to your labour voting mates, even if they vote for labour in the house, they should vote for a party opposing carbon taxes in the senate. That way they can nix the tax and still try to deliver a labor government.
70
I will be looking at distributing a “How to vote against a carbon tax” note in my electorate, a card both for labor voters and liberal. Aiming to deliver a more conservative liberal party in the house (either in government or opposition) and a senate opposed to carbon taxes.
70
And make sure people understand that emissions trading is also a form of taxation and that both major sides want to send our tax monies to Europe placed under the control of the EU ETS.
Union Labor pledged 10 per cent of their Carbon Tax to the UN and planned to convert that tax into EU ETS funding.
On man-made climate change fraud they are all acting as one.
60
Here in Australia we are running at least one, maybe two, full election cycles behind the political trends now becoming very evident in Europe and the USA
We are running about one or even two election cycles behind Europe in moving to the so called and deliberately misnamed Renewable Energy as well as the nefarious and very, very stupid, unworkable and corruption and graft riddled “hot air”trading or as the carbon cultists call it, the so called “carbon trading” .
Which we now know from harsh experience, eventually eliminates manufacturing industry due the very increased energy costs, creates a vast and rapidly increasing percentage of the populace who are in energy poverty or just plain poverty due to the renewable energy costs.
Does absolutely sweet FA for the economy, the climate, the poorer sections of the community, the political process with the only beneficiaries being the banks and big swindling financiers and innumerable financial scammers and assorted rip off merchants.
All this imposed on the populace without any consultation by the green and political elites who are so isolated from the reality and real world by thier high incomes and their selfie generated elitism and green leftard elite in their own comfortable ignorance insulated bubble.
Austria is the latest European nation to move to the political right in a fairly dramatic fashion in their latest election.
And it has the European leftards screaming about the dangers of the Right and wringing their hands in total frustration that they are now seen to be increasingly on the defensive and are more and more often being consigned to the political losers camp in the current round of European elections .
Donald Trump, regardless of your opinion of him is creating a huge bon fire under the entire American political system.
And Trump is well to the right of most political parties.
The europeans are slowly but steadily putting the brakes on renewable energy and carbon taxes and anything to do with the climate scam and that trend is starting to accelerate as the right wing parties gain seats and political influence and even control in many European national parliaments and presidencies.
The leftard EU in Brussels is getting an increasing number of two fingered salutes from many sections of the EU’s various national political establishments and even more so from larger and larger numbers in the European population.
Politically on carbon taxes and renewable energy we here in Australia are only just now getting to the situation that was all the rage in Europe back in around the beginning of this decad, about half a decade or more back in time and election cycles.
Thats how far we here in Australia are into this carbon cult cycle which now appears to be driven by the green slime and the leftards for its promise of political power using the carbon / climate change cultists as the political vehicle for a potential power seizure
The Europeans are becoming more and more disillusioned with this whole incredibly stupid carbon / climate change cult and the so called Renewable energy solution to the supposed catastrophic but still unseen, unproven, unmeasured, modelled output only effects of any man made climate change.
All of this is so evident that a few hours of reading , a few phone calls to a number of political and scientific and polling organisation in Europe and our politicians here in Australia would have the approximate situation in Europe on this whole carbon cult .
And that is that the European politicals are beginning the great walk back from national insolvency , the de-industrialistion of a large parts of western
Europe , the closing down of major manufacturing facilities, the disappearance of any ability of Europeans to compete on world markets due to excessive energy costs and increasing taxation to pay the renewable energy subsidies, the increases in straight out poverty as well as energy poverty where more than 10% of a family’s income goes in energy costs and the consequent rapidly growing unemployment as de-industrialisation starts to gather pace.
The Europeans have been there and done all of this and now some modicum of sense is just beginning to seep into the European voters in that they are starting to believe that only a move to right wing politicians who are strong enough personally as well as committed enough politically to call a halt to all this past european craziness in climate change, carbon credits [ which are now almost worthless ] unwanted, uninvited so called refugees and the immensely costly and almost totally useless renewable energy as far as maintaining a low priced, highly efficient and extremely reliable electrical power system is concerned.
They are becoming very, very aware that the EU has failed utterly in even attempting to create any semblance of a border protection system for the EU member nations [ the EU bureaucrats were too busy calculating how much bend a banana must have to be called a “banana”].
Hence the tsunami of middle eastern refugees and the unwanted influx of north and central Africans who are merely looking to take every advantage they can of the [ long term quite possibly unsustainable ] western European social support systems which were designed for Europe’s permanent citizens and not for unwanted grafting interlopers who can’t run their own countries with any modicum of integrity and honesty and efficiency.
Despite all of this highly visible European political developments which any politician with any sense at all of responsibility to their own voters and citizens would take on board and give close consideration too, we instead seem to have a whole bagful of fixated carbon capers, climate change believing political ding bats and whack jobs residing in Canberra and most state capitals who seem to be totally oblivious and totally ignorant, [ perhaps by design] of the fast changing political trends in western europe and in the USA re climate change, carbon trading, and the fast gaining pace of the shift of the voters towards the political right.
And what a shift towards the right of the political divide will mean to the climate change cult, the renewable energy scammers and all their numerous propaganda outlets, to government budgets as the boom is dropped on an incredible array of often lavish and never accountable hand outs to every two bit shyster that can set up shop as well as a huge variety of hand outs to every miserable green sleaze outfit that knows how to write a tear jerker and a whole boat load of academic ivory towered politically hard left , climate change pushing long snouted troughers.
For a Skeptic in the not very distant future life just might become quite a hoot as right wing political parties get into power and the hand out slaughter of the handouts to all the scammer, troughers and and green sleaze begins.
Or the nasty alternative, a full blown recession where there is NO money for any handouts any more.
[ The Great Depression of the 1930’s left its mark on my father and mother for the rest of their lives ]
Either way the hard leftists and the green sleaze and the innumerable scammers and troughers of government largesse will meet their justly deserved and long overdue fates.
90
Tl
12
Aweful. Would never have happened under abbot
32
Exactly – spot on Gee Aye.
This is why Monckton warned us of the consequences of Abbott being overthrown.
60
just came across this love poem for waffler Turnbull at SBS:
8 May: SBS: AAP: Turnbull’s glittering prize at last
New Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull is rich, famous and a SPELLBINDING ORATOR, but has he learnt to curb his impatience?
Rich and famous, combative, ambitious and a BRILLIANT SPEAKER…
He doesn’t suffer fools gladly – and there are always fools in any party room whose sensitivities can’t be ignored.
But his capacity, his skills, and the power of his personality are undeniable.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/05/08/turnbulls-glittering-prize-last
felt it surely must be written by some love-struck female, but no, it is written by two of AAP’s most senior male “journos”!
8 May: news.com.au: Turnbull’s glittering prize at last
Don Woolford and Paul Osborne, AAP
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/turnbulls-glittering-prize-at-last/news-story/c4dbd485a6acb2055a7595d97d53303a
40
It has been amazing how Turnbull announced an new idea and then walked away from it as suddenly. Why? Is he another Rudd? Each idea like a 15% GST was a signal but something unacceptable to the Liberals. Now he is attacking on Keating’s superannuation and the ‘rich’. The Liberals are talking preference swaps with the Greens, but no one takes it seriously! Would Abbott have done that? The key announcement was the VFT, a uniquely Green crazy unaffordable scheme, with Turnbull saying that with his banker skills he could make money from increased land prices to pay for the scheme? What?
All these announcements were a proof of good faith and meant for a single audience, the Greens. Each a beloved Green policy. These were very clear messages to the Greens, the ABC and others that things would be very different after the election. Only a few are privy to the detail but that is how plans work. Also as things leak out no one can say they were not told. They just did not think the unthinkable, that a deal making banker/lawyer would come up with a solution for the unbreakable impasse in the Senate.
In fact once in place many Liberal MPs will think it a small price to pay for government and their continuing jobs. Plus some want a carbon tax, gay marriage, Section 18C and to stop the turnbacks. After all, they are not the ones who will pay and Gillard did exactly the same thing. In many ways, Turnbull is following Gillard’s plan. Assassinate the boss and then do a deal with the Greens. A year ago both were unthinkable. Now one is history and the next is obvious. With the wisdom of hindsight, it will look so obvious. All the dominoes are falling and now Turnbull has his unnecessary Double Dissolution. The only point of this is to remove the six independents and even Labor fought it. Why? Answer this question and you will understand.
40
Fairfax’s Newcastle Herald homepage:
TOP OF PAGE: Featured News: 5 PICS – FOUR ON COAL BLOCKADE, ONE ON BAR HOURS RETHINK
followed immediately by:
10 Local News stories….which includes FIVE on coal blockade:
Newcastle coal blockade – your photos
SOCIAL media photos from Sunday’s harbour blockade and associated protests.
Coal protest shuts harbour
BLOCKADE: Environmentalist make their point with highly visual port protest.
Protest brings anger, hope
THE protest infuriated many, but looked and sounded like a celebration
Newcastle harbour coal blockade
How the Newcastle Break Free protests unfolded on Sunday.
SCROLL DOWN: TOP STORIES BOX
1.Newcastle harbour coal blockade
2.Protest brings anger, hope
3.Coal protest shuts harbour
4.Newcastle coal blockade | your photos
6.Zero tolerance for dangerous protesters: police
8.Law loophole for harbour coal protests
OPINION:
Climate guardians take hold of the harbour
EDITORIAL: Finding the right response on climate change.
http://www.theherald.com.au/
no wonder:
6 May: Crikey: Glenn Dyer: Fairfax flags an end to print
Fairfax is going to stop printing newspapers.
In a trading update presented to a finance conference in Sydney today, Fairfax Media CEO Greg Hywood revealed the company is preparing to abandon much of its direct print involvement for a full-time digital model. For the first time he flagged Fairfax is looking at cutting print editions during the week and moving to a 24/7 digital model…
http://www.crikey.com.au/2016/05/06/fairfax-flags-end-print/
50
“climate guardians” – what a misnomer.
40
Protesting about deforestation, the traditional ‘green’ cause is a criminal activity and has been usurped by the Carbon Greens who can protest about coal and a be acquitted with a get out of jail free card, because, according to some, Carbon Green is Real.
http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/montana-coal-protesters-argue-necessity-defense/
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/sep/11/activists.kingsnorthclimatecamp
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/sep/10/activists.carbonemissions
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-greenpeace-idUKLA34747320080910
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/08/da_drops_charges_against_anti_coal_activists_says_hell_see_them_at_the_climate_march/
10
Amazing background, the Turnbull couple. Some snippets only.
“In 1987, he established an investment banking firm, Whitlam Turnbull & Co Ltd, in partnership with Neville Wran (a former Labor Premier of New South Wales) and the former State Bank of New South Wales chief executive, Nicholas Whitlam (son of Gough Whitlam, a former Labor prime minister)”
George Lansbury, the great-uncle of Turnbull’s mother Coral was a politician and social reformer who led the British Labour Party from 1932 to 1935. He spent his political life campaigning against established authority and vested interests, his main causes being the promotion of social justice, women’s rights and world disarmament. His pacifism and his opposition to rearmament in the face of rising European fascism put him at odds with his party” The actress Angela Lansbury is his daughter.
Lucy Turnbull was Lord Mayor of Sydney, like her great grandfather who was the first Lord Mayor of Sydney. Since July 2010, Lucy Turnbull, OA has been deputy chair of the Council of Australian Governments (COAG) City Expert Advisory Panel, which reports to the COAG Reform Council. So is it possible she had an opinion on the recent COAG meeting where he told the State Premiers to raise their own taxes? Why is nothing said?
So does anyone really think this power couple on Australia’s rich list are just coming up with random stuff? It is all going to plan.
90
Frickin amazing, strewth!! All this history….
From: http://www.crikey.com.au/2005/11/09/paul-keating-sets-the-record-straight-on-his-piggery-play/
“Paul Keating got on the blower yesterday
to set the record straight over his piggery investment in the 1990s.
Over 15 entertaining minutes, the former PM was happy to answer any
number of questions about the piggery as he rejected this inaccurate
line of mine from Tuesday’s Crikey edition: ”
From… http://peoplesbankparty.org/
“King O’Malley, who had been instrumental in the formation of the Commonwealth Bank, wrote the following during the 1939 ‘Save The Commonwealth Bank Campaign,’ when he was over 80 years of age:-
“I trust that good and patriotic Australians will swear by the altar of their gods, the tombs of their ancestors and the cradles of their children, that they will never vote for Parliamentary candidates whose secret mission is to destroy the Commonwealth Bank … and whose brains, if extracted, dried and placed in the quill of a cocksparrow and blown into the eye of a bee, would not even make him blink.”
In 1947 the Ben Chifley Labor Government tried to re-establish the “People’s Bank” by nationalising the private banks. This effort was defeated by the High Court.
In 1991 Labor Prime Minister Bob Hawke put the final nail in the coffin of the “People’s Bank” by starting the privatisation of the Commonwealth Bank. Paul Keating continued in 1993 and John Howard finished the job in 1996. Since then the burden of taxation, foreign ownership and foreign debt has continued to get worse while Prime Minister Howard continues to sell off our Nation.”
20
“TTIP Necessary So As To Protect Megabanks From Prosecution”
From: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-08/obama-ttip-necessary-so-protect-megabanks-prosecution
“The Obama Administration (through its Italian Ambassador) seems thus to be saying, in effect, that unless TTIP is passed into law, Europe’s megabanks (and the U.S. bond-rating agencies, S&P, Moody’s and Fitch) will be able successfully to be sued by cheated investors, just as has been happening with such American banks as JPMorgan/Chase and Goldman Sachs in the United States, which — since TTIP hasn’t yet been in force anywhere, including in the U.S. — were forced to pay billions to cheated investors. Apparently, Obama would be happier if those suits had been impossible in the U.S. The argument here, though only implicitly, seems to be that TTIP is the way to protect megabanks and the bond-rating firms. It concerns specifically the selling of sophisticated derivative investments.”
30
The minister for “Muddy waters” now that would stick, and while carping on about the subject, it is truly of concern! Michael Smith has a worthy contribution…
http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2016/05/on-tuesday-8-december-2015-lucy-and-malcolm-turnbull-hadthe-ceo-of-uniting-carelin-hatfield-doddsover-to-kirribilli-house-th.html
40
Hey El Gordo,read this from grahamd and get back to us.
10
How about focusing the anti-Turnbull forces on getting him beaten in his own seat? Is there a good independent or a National party candidate to vote for in Wentworth? Evan Hughes the Labor candidate in Wentworth is a climate change tragic.
Photographed knee deep in the water for a stunt for the Sydney Morning Herald: “There was no mention of climate change in the budget or anything that Malcolm Turnbull’s said since but everyone knows I’ll be in over my head if you came back to Watsons Bay in the years to come,” he said.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/evan-hughes-running-for-labor-in-seat-of-wentworth-shadowing-a-shadow-of-turnbulls-former-self-20160506-gooau1.html#ixzz486Lm13Dl
60
We have a Climate Change Authority? I thought Abbott killed that off. We’d better use a wooden stake next time.
70
And every one of them is a rabid left-wing climate alarmist. !
82
The best outcome of the election would be a hung Parliament in the lower house with ALA holding the balance of power in the Senate. Otherwise we are sunk.
40
The core problem is that in the mendicant public service states of South Australia, Tasmania, the NT and Canberra, a Green senate vote is worth 10 votes. Undemocratically the Greens have the balance of power in the Senate, so they get the cash, the submarines, the attention and all the GST money. This will not change. Defence Minister David Johnston lost his job for courageously (Yes, Minister) telling the truth, that SA could not build a canoe. Now they have the biggest canoe job in Australian history, just to please the Greens.
Turnbull’s solution to the Green impasse is so obvious and so much to his liking, but unthinkable to Liberal voters but Turnbull was never a Liberal. His family background is all Labor/our, his business background Neville Wran/Whitlam and a GST is a licence to print money. What family life he had was all about Labor. In this he is copying Gillard whose Welsh father made her an admirer of Aneurin Bevan, the Welsh politician who split the UK Labour party but also introduced universal health care. Turnbull has a similar connection on his mother’s side, the pacifist leader of the UK Labour party who would have surrendered Britain to Hitler.
So despite all our great science, engineering, valid arguments on the absurdity of Green policies, a carbon tax, an ETS, a GST, a VFT and stopping coal exports and CO2 and the total lack of warming, prepare for Malcolm’s GST. No one is even asking Malcolm the question about an ETS? Why? As Bolt notes, he even refuses to talk to Bolt or Alan Jones, only his ABC.
So plan away, but without the Greens, a coalition government can never control the senate. The only hope were the minority parties and they no longer count, by explicit direction of the Greens and Malcolm. Your votes all go to the same party, the Greens.
Ask then why a double dissolution was necessary at all? Why so urgent? Is it about the ABCC bill Unions or is it about another Green coalition, the end of Labor and the Nationals and a government under Malcolm with Conroy’s unfettered power. We are going to the seventh double dissolution in Australia’s 115 year history and no one knows why?
My only hope is that he is not so spiteful as to stop Abbotts boat turnbacks, as is Green policy. The consequences were deadly, the greatest civilian tragedy in Australian history, four jumbo loads of families drowned in the Timor sea. However Malcolm will not resist this Green demand as it is also the last of Abbott’s achievements destroyed, the man who took his job by one vote in 2009. This is personal and dreadful. The great thing about being Green apparently is to ignore the dreadful consequences of your actions. We will also have a Republic. E pluribus unum.
70
Yes, the greens take little responsibility for the consequences of their policies. Why is Tasmania now a destitute state? The failure to undertake preventative burning under mild conditions resulted in many deaths in the Gippsland fires. The Dunalley fire which went to the waterline, the farmers were not allowed to reduce the fire hazards as appropriate so a large loss of real estate including the pub. People seem to forget the consequences of letting fuel levels build-up, especially the greens, and then there is a disaster.
100
That is their plan.There is a “Rumor”in the States about the fire in “Fort McMurrey”that the fires may have been deliberately lit.It is this area,which is where the “Tar Sands”that the Greenies absolutely cannot stand.Think about it.
40
The fuel build up concerns big piles of forest residue surrounded by dirt or in the case of farmers, mountains of logs and timber surrounded by cattle grazing the grass that surrounds them.
In old growth forest, fires do not get into the canopy.
In plantation forest filled with immature trees, fires do get into the canopies that cause wildfires.
Burning off is urgent due to deofrestation by the timber industry.
In Gippsland, a plantation forest caught fire which quickly travelled to the morwell open cut mine.
If forest are allowed to grow, fires do not get into the canopies and the shade reduces the amount of fuel at the forest floor.
IMO
Have a think about it.
10
“big piles of forest residue”
After a coupe is logged, what is left of the forest is bulldozed into a big pile. Most of the smoke in sydney and Gippsland is related to plantation forestry practices. For example, the big piles of forest residue are burn’t. Usually they are only monitored by one person as the big bonfires that were once psrt of a native forest do not need an entire army of CFA.
In fact, from what i can gather, law was passed to give the timber companies to conduct their own burns without the CFA.
Thanks
20
Mike. Correct only for plantations and they are managed. The big fires are native and not managed. Doug
10
Thanks FarmerDoug2….Thanks for that…..Here in Gippsland which includes Baw Baw area and surrounds, there are mainly nothing but plantations. And then there are the fires from recently logged native forest just prior to becoming plantations.
The mechanisation of the timber industry has resulted in vast areas that have been logged and being prepared to transition to a monoculture of single species gums or pine.
The speed of the conversion of native logged forest into plantation forest is breathtaking, literally from all the smoke.
There is not really any danger in a big pile of logs and tree branches when they are surrounded by sheep or cows etc to keep the grass down around them, and yet, these are being burnt as well.
Nothing in comparison to the new plantation forest timber industry.
20
We used to call our part of Victoria “the green wedge”
We can now call it, the plantation forest wedge from converted native forest, the new Victorian fire wedge…….
I know i need to explain it again….
Plantation forest equals immature trees.
Immature trees equal a fire hazard…
Simple
20
Mike. Guess we’re down the bottom of an old thread so it wont matter we’re OT.
You emphasize “Plantation forest equals immature trees”. Yes. Probably by definition, but it also, should anyway, mean wanted, owned, cared for, and I’ll do my best to look after mine. Immature trees might be a fire hazard but the risk is manageable. Just not often enough done.
I’m on the southern New England and crown fires are rare. We also have the advantage of a diverse forest, native, with wet gullies and rocky sides that break up fires. It could be managed a lot better but in my case I can organize isolated patches. Despite the difficulties imposed by the regulations I manage my private native forest (PNF).
I don’t burn my “piles of logs” but I see why the big operators do.
Doug
00
The main influence on fire intensity is the amount of dry fuel available. Under extreme conditions, high temperatures, low humidity, and strong winds a fire will jump from the ground into the crowns and by then the fire is sending embers well ahead of the fire front; very difficult to control. In plantations it is much cleaner and most growth goes into the tree trunk. Under extreme conditions both pine and eucalypt plantations will burn as well. Doesn’t seem to be the fate of the millions of tonnes of pine logs sitting on the NZ wharves for export.
10
The main influence is the proportion of ultra slow growing native Australian forest floor fauna combined with weed species that are introduced by any of a number of vectors.. It is the fast growing introduced grasses and weeds that are the problem. In a well colonized native forest, the native forest floor takes along time to grow back compared to the an area affected by garden variety lawn grass for example.
In the summer, native grasses and typical australian flora remain green. Dianella, Ghania, and so on. Neither are they very flammable when green in normal summer condition.
On the other hand, the lawn grass that is especially spread into the remaining remnant native vegetation along freeways for instance is a fire hazard, and if it is not kept down by intensive mowing, just like on a normal lawn, it quickly can grow meters high and rapidly dry out in the summer.
The three slash rule applies to most native australian plants. The rule is that after any native is slashed or mowed three time, it simply is dead after the third time.
Moronically, no follow up is conducted to ensure the fast growing weeds and blackberries bushes are prevented form comming back by following up a burn with some easy weed control as it is easier and a lot less toxic to poison a regrowth of blackberry after a burn than waiting for it to grow back into a four story mountain as is usual practice. A blackberry bush makes a great instant fast burning bonfire.
As for plantation practice, the forest floor is poisoned and so that is the choice. To have a diverse australian slow burning fauna, or succumb to plantation forests that are intrinsically a massive fire hazard and poison and burn everything around them using toxic chemical herbicide emissions.
00
There was once some chitter chatter about a “green army”
If there actually was, a proper one, then following up a burn with targeted weed management would go a long way towards preventing the rapid growth during the cooler months of introduced weed species.
After spending a lot of time regenerating native vegetation, i can say it works. The rapid rise of dry fuel is allways caused by weed species. The best time to follow up to prevent reoccurrence, is to do targetted weeding after a properly conducted burn. I hav walked the walked and so now i can talk the talk with some authority.
Preferably with a ‘green army’ 🙂
20
In the meantime in the USA, here is my latest at The Daily Bail
http://dailybail.com/home/hillary-clintons-climate-plan-cronyism-gone-wild.html
20
There’s something in this we’ve all overlooked.
The Paris Climate Change Agreement.
Bear with me here, because all of this hinges on the typical word usage semantics now common core for all politicians, especially it seems, Malcolm Turnbull.
The Coalition, Turnbull and his group, does not have to even mention the ETS during the election campaign to introduce it if he wins the election. We can get as uppity as we want afterwards WHEN it is introduced, by asking why weren’t we told, and notice I said when, and not if, because as sure as night follows day, it will be introduced.
There’s no need for him, or any Coalition member to even mention it at all, because in reality, no one will ask the ….. correct ….. question.
Enshrined in The Kyoto Protocol was that a small number of already Developed Countries (Australia included) were required to introduce an ETS, and to send the proceeds to the UN to pay for everything in those non developed Countries. Australia added their first signature to the Protocol. However, Australia did not ratify the Protocol until Rudd signed us up for it after he was elected the first time, and that was at Bali. (here, think of that first signature as being present, and the second signature as now being bound to act on it)
The same, or similar, now applies with the Paris Agreement.
Like every Country on Earth, Australia has signed that first signature, and now, it has to be ratified in all those Countries, eg, take it to the Parliament, and then legislate it, and once passed, then Australia adds that second signature, ratifying it, and now we are bound to act on that to follow the requirements of that Paris Agreement.
The Coalition doesn’t need to have an ETS per se as part of its policy, so there is no need to even mention it at all during the lead up to the election.
However, if Turnbull wins, again, there is no need to surreptitiously introduce an ETS. All he has to do is to bring the Paris Agreement to Parliament, and get legislation through both Houses to ….. RATIFY that Paris Agreement.
Once that is done, it is them a requirement to introduce an ETS, no matter that it was not mentioned during the election.
Turnbull and the Coalition can quite correctly say that they didn’t need to mention it during the election because an ETS per se was not part of their policy, but now we have ratified the Paris Agreement, an ETS is part and parcel of doing that.
So, in effect, if asked if he is going to introduce an ETS after the election, Turnbull can correctly answer ….. no.
The correct question to ask Turnbull is this.
“If you win the election, will the Government be ratifying the Paris Agreement?”
When he replies, correctly, that the Government has a mandate to approve that Paris Agreement, then, as sure as night follows day, we will have an ETS.
Nothing to do with me says Turnbull. It’s all part of that Paris Agreement.
See the point here. It’s a semantics word game.
I would like to see a journalist, any one of them ask that one question of Turnbull, (a) will your Government ratify the Paris Agreement, and then follow that with (b) so we WILL be getting an ETS then, and see how he might waffle out an answer to that.
Tony.
130
“See the point here. It’s a semantics word game.”
Gillard and the ALP thought the same thing.
60
Tony, you might be interested in this:
I hope everyone enjoyed the humor at the end regarding Cannes which was the lead in to the Paris Climate Accords. Here is something else that went down:
Pelosi to Obama: boost U.S. biofuels program ahead of Paris talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biofuels-pelosi-idUSKCN0T834N20151120
U.S. House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi and three other lawmakers are pressing President Barack Obama not to back-peddle on the country’s biofuels program just days ahead of global climate change talks in Paris.
The Democratic Representatives – Pelosi from California, Steny Hoyer from Maryland, Collin Peterson from Minnesota, and David Loebsack from Iowa – asked the administration to rethink a proposal for the controversial Renewable Fuel Standard and to keep the program “robust” in a letter dated Nov. 18.
The push comes just over a week ahead of a Nov. 30 deadline for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to finalize mandates for renewable fuels use through 2016. That date coincides with the start of the Paris discussions.
=========
FogFuels is Pleased to Announce the Addition of Paul Pelosi Jr. as Vice Chairman
http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/fogfuels-is-pleased-to-announce-the-addition-of-paul-pelosi-jr-as-vice-chairman-1846775.htm
ATLANTA, GA–(Marketwired – October 30, 2013) – Paul Pelosi Jr. joins Atlanta based FogFuels as Vice Chairman and a speaker on environmental policies that encourage individuals and local governments to take a more active role in conserving natural resources and reducing carbon footprints.
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That was a comment I left in the above article I wrote. The end story involves Al Gore and Monica Lewinski.
20
Turnbull is behind in the polls as of now.
If he wins the election and introduces an ETS his stocks will fall lower than Abbott’s (and no matter which way you spin it, Hunt’s comments are not consistent with a Liberal ETS).
And even if he doesn’t introduce an ETS I would say his days in the job will not be long (live by the opinion poll, die by the opinion poll).
100
Yes using voting preferences from the last election.
The game has changed. Under the old Labor Green coalition it was a balance in both houses. In a Liberal Green coalition, the Green Liberals will dominate both houses. Labour could go as low as eight seats.
50
If Turnbull aligns with the Greens it will split the Liberal party, end of story.
I do not think he has the numbers to govern if that occurs.
And, moreover, it would spell disaster in QLD where the Nats are the dominant partner (hence the LNP)
[and that BTW is why your numbers on the Nats are incorrect, members of the QLD LNP do not all sit in the Liberal party room].
40
I’ll write to my Member of Parliament,
Greg Hunt, and ask Liberal party intentions
re ETS… we need assurances on record.
Say what about a Petition from some of Jo’s
denizens?
50
Lord Jim, for the third time, what are your numbers?
As for splitting the Liberal party, that is a risk Malcolm will take. To walk away from MPs salaries, superannuation, gold passes, fame, ministries, committees and real political power is now a risk few Liberals will take. It would mean decimation of both Labor and the Nationals too in both houses and that would appeal. Except in WA, there is a truce between Nationals and Liberals which would also go under the bus at the next election. In the meantime Turnbull has been clearing shop, removing anyone in his way, in case you have not noticed.
Donald Trump used the Republican party and it is now the Trump party whether the bean counters, lobbyists and factions like it or not. Malcolm has used the Liberal party and soon it will be unrecognizable. Unless you think he and his wife know little about politics and voting and power.
It is probable they know a great deal more than the contributors to this blog, who are in the main people concerned about the corruption of science for political purposes.
There is also the corruption of democracy for power and money and I expect it is science, physics, mathematics, engineering, chemistry which will go under the bus. Yes, I would love to be wrong but only Abbott and especially Joyce can stop this now. Abbott has apparently decided there is nothing he can do, so he will let it happen. Joyce will be out of a job.
Noting your next comment, if the Greens are offered power and everything they want, they are not Labor and will preference the Liberals. The game has changed.
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Possibly more importantly, all but 8 Labor seats were won on Green preferences, just. If the Green preferences are even split, that is enough to wipe out most Labor seats. I am sure Michael Kroeger and his Green friends are doing the calculations now. So it does not matter if the Liberal voters refuse to preference the Greens. What matter is that even half of the Green voters preference the Liberals.
The How to Vote cards will be printed soon. They will be released at the last possible minute. What are Liberal voters going to do, vote for Labor?
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The Hon. Barnaby Joyce MP
The Hon. Darren Chester MP
The Hon. Michael McCormack MP
The Hon. Keith Pitt MP
Mr Andrew Broad MP
Mr George Christensen MP
Mr Mark Coulton MP
Dr David Gillespie MP
The Hon. Luke Hartsuyker MP
Mr Kevin Hogan MP
Ms Michelle Landry MP
Mr Ken O’Dowd MP
Senator the Hon. Matthew Canavan
Senator The Hon. Fiona Nash
Senator The Hon. Nigel Scullion
Senator Bridget McKenzie
Senator Barry O’Sullivan
Senator John Williams
http://nationals.org.au/candidates/
20
So 18. Six senators and 12 MPs. The Greens have 10 senators plus more from the elimination of the micro parties. Double the Nationals. They can also deliver many Labor seats. All for the price Gillard was happy to pay. A Green Liberal coalition could form government today. Many would applaud. Especially the ABC.
20
I do not believe that many Greens voters will not preference the Liberal party, even if directed to do so.
It is doubtful in the extreme that a mass of Greens voters would direct their vote to the party of the ‘pacific solution’.
Indeed, doing a deal with the Libs would probably spell their end.
51
If The Greens set their preferences toward the Liberals, then all who use the default vote (tick one party box) for The Greens will automatically have their preference being Liberal.
How many people do you think actually go through and set their preferences one by one?
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Precisely. How many people understand what their preferences mean? Not many. Then how many people care? They do what is on the cards, assuming their preferred candidates have worked it all out and they have. That is going on now.
Many Liberals and even Greens might see the imminent destruction of Union power projected through their privately owned Labor party a worthy cause. After all the double dissolution is nominally about control of the rampant unlawful building unions, especially in Green Canberra where the price of a concrete pour is set by the Unions. Greens do not love the Unions and many Green politicians would love to be elected even with Liberal preferences.
20
As I recall Greens voters often do not follow voting directions; as opposed to many Liberal voters who e.g. would just put a tick in the Liberal box, but then have their preference directed Green when the 2PP is between Greens/ALP.
20
“The only voters who seemingly demonstrate independence in allocating their preferences are Greens voters. Labor and Coalition voters are more likely to follow their party’s how-to-vote instructions…”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-27/matthewson-the-greens-have-become-the-very-thing-they-hate/6423420
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no ticks allowed on any ballot this election
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Leafy,
whoever gave you that red thumb was being unfair. You are correct, only numbers are supposed to be allowed on both green and white papers this election. (However, due to poor AEC messaging, there may be a legal challenge allowing a one box above the line tick on the white to be considered valid, but I wouldn’t count on it).
The new rules are a boon for Defcons. Most folk avoid below the line voting due to over a hundred numbers to fill out. (I have always pre prepared a ballot numbering using http://www.votebelowtheline.org, but it won’t be necessary this year). With 6 above or 12 below being the new rules, a vast number will now vote below the line. Defcons will do it because we can precisely target Lord Bouncy Waffle’s quislings, leaving them un-numbered while only numbering centre right candidates. We can also end the Phoulness of Photios in NSW. Jim Molan can be preferenced right after ALA.
But with such a sudden increase in below the line voting, the senate results are going to take weeks if not months to call. Just as the Liberals have lost all their former campaign volunteers in 40 seats, the AEC has lost around half their scrutineers. Interesting times.
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Konrad
“the AEC has lost around half their scrutineers. Interesting times.”
It’s like pencils, each year hundreds or more pencils are lost and need to be replaced with new ones and fresh string. Maybe it is time to use pens?
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“How many people do you think actually go through and set their preferences one by one?”
This is EXACTLY what voters must do!
Hence my suggestion for applying for a postal vote.
00
8 May: Sky News: AAP: Di Natale launches Greens campaign
Speaking at an anti-coal protest in Newcastle, Senator Di Natale said the Greens would lead the economic debate with a plan for a renewable energy economy that would create tens of thousands of jobs.
While Opposition Leader Bill Shorten was kicking off his election campaign at a mine – commemorating the 10th anniversary of the Beaconsfield disaster – Senator Di Natale said the Greens were standing with the community to protest against new coal mines…
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/federal/2016/05/08/di-natale-launches-greens-campaign.html
8 May: NewcastleHeraldBlog: Newcastle harbour coal blockade: live updates – photos, video
BY TIM CONNELL, MATT CARR and IAN KIRKWOOD
Mr Di Natale told reporters on Horseshoe beach he was in Newcastle the day an election was formally called because “we stand with the community”.
“On a day when Bill Shorten is out at a mine kicking off this election campaign, we are saying no more new coal mines if we are to make a transition to a 21st century economy,” he said.
***Watch his full press conference below
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3894106/newcastle-harbour-coal-blockade/?cs=303
***video does not work with my browser.
9 May: ABC: End of an era: final day of coal-fired power generation in Port Augusta
By Michael Dulaney and Khama Reid
The last day of electricity generation at Alinta Energy’s coal-fired power stations marks the “bittersweet” end of an industry, which has been vital for the region’s economy.
About 185 workers will be without jobs as operations end at the power plants with the distinctive 200-metre chimney that sits at the head of South Australia’s Spencer Gulf…
Region’s future in renewable energy…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-09/port-augusta-power-plant-closure-alinta/7391362
30
At pat’s third link here, (the bottom one) scroll down to the second image there, the view inside this now ancient technology power plant with it’s 260MW generator.
Compare that with this image (at this link) inside a new tech HELE, USC coal fired power plant in China with its 1000MW generator, and the second one just behind that one in the foreground.
Tony.
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Don’t worry, the plan is that eventually everyone will have a tiny solar panel implanted on their head, just big enough to charge up a smart phone to receive further instructions. All transactions and banking will be done via phone 🙂
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And now it’s done
Port Augusta’s coal-fired power station closes in South Australia
And someone just put this up on climanrecon.wordpress.com
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Try again for the image
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy286/Kaanage/misc/Northern_zpswckpoa2c.png
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And even the crow call from RenewEconomy accepts there is now a power generation void in SA
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/last-coal-fired-power-generator-in-south-australia-switched-off-88308
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SA will end up like Tasmania.
Another failed state.
00
Yes Tony, and the people in that picture are only there for the photo. They really do not need any unionised operators or union organisers but there is still a job for cleaners until they design robots to do that in maybe two to three years time.
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So it’s a loss of 260 MW 24/7 electricity to the grid, despite its many years of service. There is the usual reference that renewable energy is the future for the region.
However, for the months of March and April the capacity factor for the SE wind turbines was about 23%, or 917 MW, but 60% of the time production was only 13% or approx. 475 MW roughly twice that of the coal station.
How can it be the future when the 39 wind farms (3669 MW) on the grid can only produce, on average, four times more than an obsolete coal station, and on several occasions even less output than the 260 MW?
Wouldn’t the money spent on the wind farms be more useful in building some modern efficient coal stations as per the Chinese example?
20
We will end up like Greece.
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If the Greens and the Libs do a deal we are”Screwed”Any one here willing to take a punt?
20
There is a report here: http://wixxyleaks.com/hysteria-the-greens-preference-plan-backfires/
about the new voting system in the federal senate causing the Greens to lose their old preference flows:
“Hysteria – The Greens Preference Plan Backfires
…
So now the minor parties, who the Greens have sought to ensure will not get the benefit of preferences, have decided to direct their preferences away from the Greens or the Coalition.”
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The only way voters can send a message to politicians, aimed at the alternatives for government, all of them, is to not give their candidates our primary vote. Passing government from one to the other is an exercise in futility if our goal is to convince politicians that we want them to be our representatives and not our masters.
50
Stefan Molyneux does a pretty good explanation of why a teams wins in politics democracy etc..
https://youtu.be/MpVi8TJ2RGw?t=338
10
I can just see the libs and the greens and the rest of them fighting it out to see who can get the cheapest restructured loan for our yet to be born Australians
30
Julie Bishop was on ABC National Radio this morning and bragged about signing the Paris Agreement … it shows that the government is committed she said.
Well I agree that the climate change freaks in government and opposition should be committed.
90
So Julie Bishop is on board with anything UN. She is buying her next job. After bringing in her UN Carbon tax, she is off to New York like Helen Clarke for a well earned luxurious UN job, a small price for the UN to pay for the billions they will receive. Who need the Liberals when you have an apartment in New York and the indexed pension of a former Foreign Minister? It is hard to tell the difference between Labor and Liberal these days. They are both paid far too much and the pensions are ridiculous, equivalent to ten million in super, something which ordinary mortals could not dream.
20
Julie Bishop === TRAITOR!
10
another academic calling for “revolution”?
9 May: The Conversation: Rapid transition to clean energy will take massive social change
by Mark Diesendorf, Associate Professor, Interdisciplinary Environmental Studies, UNSW, UNSW Australia
Global climate change, driven by human emissions of greenhouse gases, is already affecting the planet, with more heatwaves, droughts, wildfires and floods, and accelerating sea-level rise.
Devastating impacts on our environment, health, social justice, food production, coastal city infrastructure and economies cannot be avoided if we maintain a slow and steady transition to a zero-carbon society…
Most of the technologies and skills we need – renewable energy, energy efficiency, a new transmission line, railways, cycleways, urban design – are commercially available and affordable. In theory these could be scaled up rapidly.
But in practice there are several big, non-technical barriers. These include politics dominated by vested interests, culture, and institutions (organisational structures, laws, and regulations).
Vested interests include the fossil fuel industry, electricity sector, aluminium smelting, concrete, steel and motor vehicles…
To overcome this barrier, we need strong and growing pressure from the climate action movement.
There are numerous examples of nonviolent social change movements the climate movement can learn from. Examples include the Indian freedom struggle led by Gandhi; the African-American civil rights movement led by Martin Luther King Jr; the Philippine People Power Revolution; and the unsuccessful Burmese uprising of 1988-90…
https://theconversation.com/rapid-transition-to-clean-energy-will-take-massive-social-change-58211
Diesendorf throws DENIER around in the comments & apparently would like to ***shut down the Australian economy!
LinkedIn: Mark Diesendorf
My goal is to help promote an ecologically sustainable and socially just society. As part of that goal, I’m working towards a 100% renewable energy system for Australia.
***I’m also becoming increasingly interested in how to transition to a steady-state economy, that is, one with a low throughput of energy and materials, low land use and no growth in energy, materials, land use or population.
Previously, at various times, I was a principal research scientist in CSIRO, Australia’s national research organisation; senior lecturer in human ecology at the Australian National University; professor of environmental science at University of Technology Sydney; and director of Sustainability Centre Pty Ltd…
https://au.linkedin.com/in/mark-diesendorf-1b432b13
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pat:
Diesendorf has been agitating for 100% renewables for some time. There are a lot of challengeable assumptions made. To the list of those against his ideas add all those who know what they are talking about. Peter Lang has “taken apart” 2 of his plans – sorry but I’ve lost the links through computer failure but think on Brave New Climate blog.
He is coming to Adelaide this month to address the Friends of the Earth on his plan for 100% renewables for SA. I think I will wait and see how the State copes now that the Pt. Augusta power station has closed. It may well be an interesting summer as we rely on wind and solar (but don’t mention the gas burners nor the inter-connectors to Vic. coal fired). I have to decide what size generator to buy.
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Graeme No.3 –
agree, i’ve read some of Diesendsorf’s earlier stuff.
9 May: ABC AM: The end of coal power energy generation in South Australia
NATALIE WHITING, ABC: The nearby Leigh Creek coal mine that supplied the stations has already shut down putting more than 250 people out of work.
This morning the Northern Power Station will be disconnected from the network…
Alinta has said rising subsidised renewable(sic) contributed to the closure.
Energy market analyst Danny Price from Frontier Economics says that would’ve been the biggest factor.
DANNY PRICE: The more wind that goes in or the more solar that goes in, the more likely it is that these (inaudible) generators will actually come out of the system and it’s just a cost that the community has to bear. If it doesn’t like that impact then it has to make a decision as to how much renewable generation they’re going to subsidise.
NATALIE WHITING: He says the closure will push up electricity prices.
DANNY PRICE: The market contracts are now trading in South Australia, the base-load generator contracts; they’ve jumped 80 per cent. That’s the wholesale component. The retail component would be roughly about probably 35 to 40 per cent…
NATALIE WHITING: While renewable may have contributed to the downfall of the power station, there is hope they could also be the future for Port Augusta.
Gary Rowbottom is among many locals pushing for a solar thermal plant to be built…
GARY ROWBOTTOM: I’m certainly hoping that Port Augusta can forge a place for itself in the renewable energy future of Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4458258.htm
Advertiser also manages to speak to pro-renewables Rowbottom!
9 May: Adelaide Advertiser: Sam Kelton: Alinta Energy power stations at Port Augusta shut down
Since 2012, the community has campaigned for a concentrated solar thermal plant with storage to be built in Port Augusta to create jobs and transition away from coal. The community’s campaign has led to US solar thermal company SolarReserve, who operate a facility in Nevada, to propose building a solar thermal plant with storage north of Port Augusta.
Both sides of federal politics have mentioned Port Augusta in its discussions surrounding solar energy funding.
Mr Rowbottom says it’s the industry that can save the town.
“That’s the next big thing for the town — that Port Augusta becomes a renewable energy hub,” he said.
“We’re very anxiously awaiting the outcome — it needs some federal funding and both sides of government have shown interest — that’s a good thing … I’ve seen this go through four PMs and there may be a fifth now.
“We really want this town to forge itself as a place in the age of renewable energy. “
Port Augusta Mayor Sam Johnson said that now an election had been called, it was time for both major parties to “put their money where their mouth is”…
(MOST COMMENTING ARE ANGRY)
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/alinta-energy-power-stations-at-port-augusta-shut-down/news-story/dbd539ebfe7f2b2f40b8d7785377654e
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pat:
How can 110MW of solar heat at $275 per MWh be considered a replacement for 550MW at $35 to 40 a MWh?
And they need to supply a list of Solar Heat Towers that don’t burn gas (hint: Texta on a postage stamp is all that is needed).
Another case of send more money.
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Pat me being a Victorian I would like regardless of the idiot SA government paying for our coal fired power cutting the interconnect. This would prove two things, one that their green power is unreliable and two that the people in charge are class one idiots. The outcome would be that the people wake up and demand real power stations. They seem at least as dumb as the fools in Taswegia.
00
Firstly, they had 16 years of Labor+Green in charge in Tasmania and the current lot are battling to get things back on track. Admittedly they made a mistake because they needed money, but that wouldn’t have been a problem if BassLink had remained in service.
Secondly, we in SA have had 14 years of Labor government (despite them winning a minority of the vote in the last 2 elections. I take issue with your description of our State politicians as class one idiots, they are definitely not class one.
00
Here is the “Least cost 100% renewable electricity scenarios in the Australian National Electricity Market” paper that Diesendorf led in 2013. I lampooned it in a previous thread, generating outrage ire in those who didn’t see my sarcasm (everyone).
http://www.ies.unsw.edu.au/sites/all/files/profile_file_attachments/LeastCostElectricityScenariosInPress2013.pdf
And some detailed criticism: https://bravenewclimate.com/2014/06/02/critique-100pc-renewables-edm/
This is an earlier version critqued by Peter Lang: https://bravenewclimate.com/2012/02/09/100-renewable-electricity-for-australia-the-cost/
Diesendorf’s response: https://bravenewclimate.com/2012/02/27/100-renewable-electricity-for-australia-response-to-lang/
Critiques of the response: https://bravenewclimate.com/2012/03/21/trainer-critique-edm/
10
Looks like Diesendorf wasn’t thinking big enough
http://www.paoloventurella.it/global-cooling-skyscraper/
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Analitik:
I picked up one error, the date is given as 8/4/2016. That’s out by 7 days.
30
Indeed. I made the same comment on WUWT 😉
20
“director of Sustainability Centre”
Says it all!!
Yet another TRAITOR!
00
Just heard di natale on the radio say that the greens will not be preferencing the liberals ahead of the greens in any seat.
10
Correction: Just heard di natale on the radio say that the greens will not be preferencing the liberals ahead of the ALP in any seat.
40
I wont be giving my primary vote to Union Labor Green or Liberal, but I will support a National Party candidate.
Union Labor Greens & Liberal should all be our last level of vote choices, unless we send a clear message they will carry on regardless of what we want.
60
+10
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Of course, 8 weeks from the election! Things change. If you really planned to preference the Liberals above Labor, it would be incredibly silly to say so now. This would produce a bad knee jerk reaction from everyone, especially the ALP who rely totally on Green preferences.
So wait for the actual How to Vote cards at the very last minute. You can even print two sets, accidentally of course. Would a politician be so devious as to do the opposite of what they promise? Would Labor really be tricked into preferencing their future enemy? Would new to the job Di Natale refuse to accept all his dreams coming true? Would he tell a little white lie? Can you trust what politicians say?
30
I think Di Natale knows his brand.
Any attempt to cosy up to the Liberals would be toxic.
30
You are talking about Abbott’s Liberals, not Malcolm’s Green Liberals. The old Liberal party will vanish too, along with Labor. Some Liberals are quite happy with this. Perhaps 15% of Abbott’s Liberals are leavings at this election, not counting Joe Hockey. Especially those who voted for Malcolm and against Abbott. They are not to be trusted. The baby boomers are being thrown out. It is very clear that Green politicians are getting everything they want, even appointed to plum job advising Turnbull’s cabinet and with no real experience in the job. Explanation please. Look at the evidence and apply Occam’s razor.
This election will NOT be business as usual. Even the ABC have nothing bad to say about their Malcolm. He could eat an raw onion or look at his watch or wink and no one would notice. No one hates Malcolm. Why? Just look at the appointments and the preselections. Malcolm is not the one stuck in the headlights. The biggest political coup in Australian history is underway.
70
How do you know a politician is lying?
His/her lips are moving.
10
just for outside viewers. Parties do not set preferences, voters do. The parties give out how to vote cards telling voters how they prefer to order the candidates but these actually have very little impact. They are pretty much glossy litter. There is a proportion of voters who use them but there is no evidence that this has had any influence on outcomes. ACT elections don’t allow them at all.
Note that the above comments and links below are referring to the lower house. The upper house is different
http://www.prsa.org.au/htv_cards.htm
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/09/do-australians-follow-how-to-votes.html
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Actually in rereading this, the far less obvious point is that Di Natale said it. On the face of it, the denial is absurd. Now why would you deny something like this unless it needed denying? I would guess he is speaking to his nervous partners, Labor.
20
Galileo’s Malcolm Roberts, a long standing fighter against the man made global warming hoax is standing as a senate candidate for One Nation in Queensland in the forthcoming election. Malcolm Roberts and Pauline Hansen
40
8 May: Vox: Marc Gunther: Rich countries have pledged billions in climate aid. Why has progress been so slow?
Tunisian economist Hela Cheikhrouhou, the fund’s first executive director, has said that its goal is nothing less than to help poor countries overcome “the twin threats of climate change and poverty.”…
All agree that the fund has the potential to drive what, in its governing document, it calls “a paradigm shift towards low-emission and climate-resilient development pathways” — even if no one is quite certain about what that means…
So far, the fund has approved just $168 million for eight projects…
In comparison, about $391 billion was invested in low-carbon and climate-resilient growth in 2014, according to the Climate Policy Initiative, which tracks both public and private climate finance. That sounds like a lot — and it is — but experts have estimated that as much as $1 trillion a year is needed to meet the national climate pledges countries made leading up to the Paris climate talks…
Policies and projects must be approved by a 24-member board equally drawn from developed and developing countries that also must strive for gender balance (for now, three of the 24 are women). Decisions must be made by consensus…
Cheikhrouhou, the executive director, plans to step down in September, just as the fund is trying to grow. It has about 60 people on staff, and has been authorized to hire 80 more by the end of next year. (By comparison, the Inter-American Development Bank, which provides aid to Latin America and the Caribbean, has about 2,000 employees, while the World Bank has around 10,000.) It’s been hard to attract staff, particularly those with working spouses, to Songdo, a district built from scratch on reclaimed wetlands with limited employment and cultural opportunities. The Koreans provided financial assistance to help attract the fund; insiders say other potential locales, including Geneva and Bonn, were opposed by the US officials (because they didn’t want the fund too closely identified with the UN) and by developing countries (who wanted it headquartered in a developing country, as South Korea is deemed to be by the UN’s climate agency)…
http://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/11600940/green-climate-fund
***reclaimed wetlands with limited cultural opportunities not good enough for the CAGW mob.
20
forcing developing countries to leapfrog fossil fuels is not always welcome:
28 Apr: BNAmericas: Adam Critchley: Dutch pension fund withdraws from Mexico wind farm project
Dutch pension fund PGGM has decided to withdraw the 250mn euros (US$283.8mn) it had set aside to invest in the 396MW Eolica del Sur wind farm in Mexico’s Oaxaca state, the construction of which has been out on hold as a result of opposition from local residents.
Members of the Juchitan people’s assembly (APPJ) welcomed the decision, according to newspaper El Imparcial…
Residents have long opposed the project, despite the government having carried out an eight-month consultation process among the Zapotec indigenous communities in the region to be affected, after which the energy ministry (Sener) announced that the local residents had voiced their approval of the project.
After Sener had announced the people’s approval, local residents took out an injunction with a federal judge in Salina Cruz to halt the project, calling for the protection and guarantee of the indigenous communities’ rights. The judge revoked the authorization and permits, as well as the land use authorization in response to the petition from more than 1,000 members of the local Zapotec indigenous communities.
While PGGM has made no formal statement on the matter, El Imparcial quoted Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf as reporting that the pension fund decided to withdraw after a four-year delay, considering the potential project was no longer profitable…
The project, which would have comprised 132 turbines to be supplied by Danish firm Vestas, was rejected by two other municipalities in Juchitan; San Dionisio del Mar and Alvaro Obregon…
Denmark’s credit export agency EKF has been backing the project to facilitate the involvement of Vestas…
http://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/electricpower/dutch-pension-fund-withdraws-from-mexico-wind-farm-project
public opinion will still be ignored!
4 May: Kallanish Energy: Dutch pension fund abandons 396 MW Mexican wind project
The estimated $850 million venture is now to be developed by ***Macquarie Mexico and Mitsubishi…
https://www.kallanishenergy.com/2016/05/04/dutch-pension-fund-abandons-396-mw-mexican-wind-project/
***BNAmericas: Macquarie Group Ltd. is an Australian provider of banking, financial, advisory, investment and funds management services. Macquarie acts on behalf of institutional, corporate and retail clients around the world. Through its Macquarie Mexican Infrastructure Fund, the group acquired a 32.5% stake in the 396MW Marena Renovables (now Eolica del Sur) wind farm in Mexico’s Oaxaca state in 2011.
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http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2016/05/on-tuesday-8-december-2015-lucy-and-malcolm-turnbull-hadthe-ceo-of-uniting-carelin-hatfield-doddsover-to-kirribilli-house-th.html
“The PM employs Lin Hatfield-Dodds from The Greens as architect for The Turnbulls’ vision of a new society.”
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“I can’t find any public announcement about it. You have to know what you’re looking for and search the Hansard to find Ms Kelly’s frank evidence.” Michael Smith
You would think the Turnbulls (yes both of them) do not want the public to know what they are doing, until after the election. Now why would that be?
80
Note the the date they invited this card carrying member of the Green party to lunch to discuss the appointment to reshape Australian society, 8 December 2015, 5 months ago and only two months after seizing power. From 2009 to 2015, the Turnbulls had plenty of time to discuss what they would do when Abbott was removed and they moved quickly. This was supposed to remain a secret but clearly not everyone approves. The Turnbulls have been very busy. Only 8 weeks to go.
100
Lin is the Hatfield in the partnership with Stephen, who is the Dodds. Stephen commenced a lucrative climate research funded career in the late 1990s, and moved to the CSIRO in 2002.
Turnbull got to know Parkinson when Turnbull was opposition environmental spokesman and Parkinson was appointed to head labor’s climate change department. Parkinson recruited Stephen to the leadership group of his new department where he was introduced to Turnbull. Parkinson was promoted to head Treasury under Rudd.
Parkinson was sacked by PM Abbott in 2013, and the climate department was abolished forcing Dodds back to a senior CSIRO job. See the pattern – Turnbull, Parkinson and Stephen Dodds were climate co-conspirators, and all suffered career terminations due to Tony Abbott’s actions.
Now Turncoat has decided to reverse those setbacks and clearly intends to bring back his previous climate policies directed by Parkinson, coordinated by Lin Hatfield Dodds, and with Stephen Hatfield Dodds possibly to head the post-election climate department.
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Disturbingly it appears as though the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) is deliberately misleading voters in order to favour the major parties (who all support the CARBON DIOXIDE – PLANT FOOD TAX) and discriminate against the minor ones.
Surely this can’t be legal!!!
http://pickeringpost.com/story/looks-like-the-electoral-office-has-stuffed-up-again-/6000
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Yes, they made a mistake. But you only have to number 12 below the line. It’s time to go to Defcon [1]. 12 or more centre right senate candidates. No numbers for Turnbullite quislings. You have a launch order! Turn your key sir!
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Jekyl and Hide
Whenever the Government engages in these tatics I often wonder who we are dealing with.
Certainly not the people we voted for 🙁
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‘A well-known climate change denier, Dennis Jensen then went on to list his stance on key government policies, which included deploring the idea of an emissions trading scheme, which he said had been “used by organised crime as a means of money laundering” in Europe and the US, and throwing his support behind Labor’s calls for a royal commission into the banking sector.’
Guardian
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[…] Art Vandelay: Report suggesting new carbon tax for Australia hidden until after election […]
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