After the dramatic loss in Tasmania at the May election the local state Labor party has realized they went too far Green left. They are scrambling to distance themselves from the Greens — saying that working with the Greens was a mistake. They are even talking about working people again as if they matter. It is a 180 shift from trying to win votes from the Greens by adopting their policies to openly isolating the Greens and pointing out their flaws.
Far from trying to fight “a climate election” they are even trying to fight on economic issues — ground that usually suits the Liberal (conservative) party. The problem for the Tasmanian branch is that they said something like this in 2010, then reneged when push came to shove and did a deal. Unless they get serious about pointing out why Greens policies are so toxic, the voters won’t believe them. The added advantage of scrutinizing the Greens (finally) would be that the Labor party might win votes from both the left and the right.
Rebecca White is the leader of the Labor Opposition in Tasmania.
Tasmanian Labor Party vows never to make ‘mistake’ of working with Greens again
Ms White will rise to her feet on Sunday to spruik Labor’s commitment to the working class, and to raise concerns about a “jobs emergency” in Tasmania.
She will use her speech to distance Labor from the Tasmanian Greens.
After working with the Greens earlier this year to pass transgender reforms through state parliament, Labor now seems intent on avoiding the appearance of being too cosy with the minor party.
Ms White’s speech will criticise the Greens’ positions on energy policy, tourism, and planning.
“As bad as the Liberal Government is on jobs — the Greens are just as bad,” Ms White’s speech reads.
“I am tired of the Greens standing in the way of Tasmanian jobs.
“They leave people behind. Working people. Our people.
In 2007 Ken Rudd ran his campaign on a promise of being great economic managers. The Australian Labor party won and did what they usually do –they blew away the surplus, raked up debt, built $800,000 tin-sheds for schools that needed libraries, and created a bubble in pink batts. It’s very risky for any Labor Party to run a campaign on “the economy” — but finally they appear to realize the empty shell of the climate election — where everyone says “they believe” and “they care” but no one wants to pay, and every other issue rates higher. The votes just aren’t there.
The party appears to have decided the key to future electoral success lies in convincing voters it would be a stronger economic manager than the Liberals, both at a state level and federally.
“The Morrison Government is in denial about the economy. A soft economy has been their blind spot, and it’s becoming their weak spot.”
Matthew Denholm at The Australian points out that the Labor Party in Tasmania have done this before:
…
White admitted past alliances with the Greens, most recently from 2010-14, had been a mistake. She painted Labor’s former power-sharing partners as arrogant, anti-everything, job-destroying naysayers.
Her quest to distance herself from the tree-huggers went as far as endorsing roo shooting as a pastime.
Her problem is that Tasmanians have heard this song before. Former premier David Bartlett promised never to do a “deal with the (Greens) devil” in 2010, shortly before doing exactly that to cling to power. Many still recall the similar Faustian pact between Julia Gillard and Bob Brown in the same year.
In preferences, Scott Morrison put Labor ahead of One Nation. What are the odds the Labor party would put the Liberals ahead of the Greens? Close to nothing.
With Labor it’s always been a case of (to quote Richo) “whatever it takes……..”
The logo of the Fabian Society is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
210
As I always keep asking; someone show me one Green scheme that’s worked.
200
That`s easy. There was the… uhh.. well there.. was the uhm…wait a minute I will think of it… the uh… the uh…well…uhm…
120
bemused asked for this 🙂
That is actually easy: you’re living it. They’ve set out to destroy the Western economies and, so far, it’s working. Slowly.
It hasn’t worked in full … yet, because no country has voted them in … yet. But they are getting closer … and closer … to final destruction.
They haven’t gotten rid of all your coal power … yet … but they’re working on it.
They are succeeding with your industry, rather well.
You’re not alone: NZ is trying to follow you. Over the last year or so, my electricity bills have almost doubled too. PV cells are now subsidised: be paid for power you supply to the grid.
100
‘Julie Anne Genter’ and ‘James Shaw’ are swear words in my book…
both Trojan horses of the NZ Greens variety who want to ban private vehicles and charge us for it. Treason, anyone?
It’s not only Australia’s political (no) class swapping allegiances mid-stream – our MetService has gone from stating: “This service is based on data and products of the UK Met Office” to now stating the ‘data and products’ come via the “US National Centers for Environmental Prediction” [fine print hidden underneath main map]:
https://www.metservice.com/maps-radar/rain-forecast/rain-forecast-5-day
I only noticed the ‘change of ownership’ (sponsorship?) on today’s 5 day projection map as it looked completely different. Then again, maybe it’s that Sudden Stratospheric Warming (SSW) wot done it! Not one but two Tasman lows this week sucking up COLD SNOWY winds for both VIC/NSW and NZ mountains – surely a prophetic sign we modern men and women have caused climatic breakdown and/or crisis/emergency/unprecedented BS because of our 0.0016% CO₂ input. These nutters are evil and mad.
20
Then go and wash yer mouf out!
JS is the same in my book although I will add: “A Major Idiot.” He’s a True Believer without Let or Hindrance, nor any Science at all.
20
“a Category Six may be necessary to describe strengthening storms…” utterance in February 2018 was JS’s famous (notorious!) contribution to Climate Science. He failed to reference the NOAA storms database, where he would have discovered these storms were … just not strengthening but were weakening. Never mind. Mickey Mann was there to impress and he said the same. As it was, the TC of the time (Gita) touched Cat 4 after some solar flares and a CME before trying to blow Tonga away. The sun went quiet again, so Cat 4 didn’t last at all long.
Southern Hemisphere cyclonic storms, aka Tropical Cyclones very rarely reach Category 5, which is open ended. It takes some really intense Solar activity to reach Cat 5 and SSC 24 was just not strong enough to “sustain” it.
20
The destruction of the Australian economy.
They are well on the way to succeeding.
The greens are a cancer to western civilisation.
70
If only the US Democrats could distance themselves from the Green garbage that’s polluting politics world wide. Perhaps the next election will teach them the same lesson that those in the Tasmanian Labor party have learned.
171
As things are going that will happen.
90
Soooooo, are they implying that the world is not about to end? That the environment is not the priority, that working people count? Sounds a bit contradictory.
170
Eventual Green doom could be helped by.. alot of peed off Queenslanders and Brisbaneites are not impressed with there travel plans disrupted by the idiots in the ‘extinction rebellion’ playing morons in the Brisbane CBD.
70
David Wojick @ # 2.1 above is right. It’s just not happening by last week when we would much rather it had happened by.
I’ve been “over” to Ben Davidson’s “place” and caught up with his daily news for the first day of spring (01 Sept. 2019:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-e0T4k8E28 ).
He’s noted half a dozen new papers which render Extinction Rebellion and all the “It’s your fault!”-type Warmists to the Wastes of the Outer Idio-cene. (to mix my terminology). Forget the Anthropocene: it’s the Heliocene. It’s forcing is “hundreds of times more powerful” than that poor pathetic bit of TSI change the IPCC supposes. Guess who has to play an enormous amount of Catch Up? If you say “The IPCC” you can go to the top of the class.
In other words: It’s the Sun, Stupids!
Space Weather plus Local Weather.
That includes all the IPCC groupies. The computer models are now obsolete, old fashioned, out of date, and plain wrong, and No, The Science is NOT settled; but we knew that anyway. They — the computer modellers — are going to have to struggle to catch up to the new “Whole of the Atmosphere + Solar” (from the top down to the bottom and the bottom back up to the top) paradigm. Bye bye Nik Kilvert — you’re now just a wrong-headed loud mouth along with all your fellow “reporters.” Ptui!
The cooling is a-coming in. And from the very short scan I’ve given these new papers, there is going to be a lot of it and maybe for a long time. Yale is apparently making noises about a “Cold Bomb” from the Arctic. Interesting, have to see what can be found out about that.
I probably won’t be around much this week. I’ve got some new papers to try and find (a trip in to my old library maybe) because I do want to acquire more than just the abstracts but preferably not at my expense — I’m poor! If I’m successful (all fingers crossed) I’ll have to then read and absorb them.
60
When it’s all done and dusted this type of political posturing is irrelevant to the main aims of both “sides” of the governing class.
The true aims are to control the population and gouge as much as possible without being caught.
When the likes of Merkel and Macron can spread so much “sand” throughout Europe they divert attention from the main game: gouging.
The current vehicle for gouging is the Renewables Trojan horse and for some weird reason we have fallen for it here in Australia.
Any publicly expressed policy change like this one, of distancing themselves from the Greens, is just for public consumption while the true focus remains where it has always been, the money.
KK
300
It seems that many voters might follow the party how to vote instructions, which is a bit sad. That implies that they do not understand the power of our preferential voting system.
180
Peter, do you have any idea how many of the general public in Australia understand the proportional voting system? I never did in the 20 odd years I lived in Sydney and back in those days I never found a description of it. It appears to be rather over complicated and obscure with very little chance of the wishes of the person voting being carried out.
92
“proportional voting system? ”
Isn’t that preferential?
The system became unintelligible when so many people we on the candidate list.
That gave the excuse to “simplify” it by having lines, above and below, party groups etc that make it almost impossible to make sense of.
Mission accomplished.
KK
120
Sorry Ivan, but if you never found a description then I put it to you that you never tried hard enough.
2PP preferential is actually very simple.
To win a candidate must get 50% +1 of the total votes.
(so if there are 1000 total votes you will need 500 (50%) plus 1 (total 501 votes) to show you are the clear leader)
Now if you are a really cool kid you may obtain 50% +1 just on the power of your smile. Since this is rare we get into preferential votes.
Here will look at how many votes each candidate has received and find the one with the lowest. They AEC say “Sorry Sunshine, you are out” (or words to that effect) and take all those votes, look at the cards, and give those votes to whoever was marked 2 on the voting form.
ie – if you can’t have Example Eric, who would be your second choice?
Then they see if anyone has the magic 50% +1. If not they take the new lowest candidate and repeat the process. And repeat until someone has 50%+1.
This process is in many ways the same as having multiple rounds of voting, just attempts to place it all into one event.
Now the flaws with this system?
The clearly most popular single candidate may not get elected.
Let us say we have 100 voters and 49 vote for Amazing Anne. However 5 vote for Boring Bob, 4 vote for Crud Chris, 4 for Dud Dave and so on and so on. All of these voters preference Amazing Anne last and suddenly Boring Bob gets elected with 51 votes after preferences.
Why is this wrong? 49% of the voting pool clearly wanted Amazing Anne, while only 5% voted for Boring Bob. The counter argument is that 51% (a clear majority) wanted ANYONE else rather than Amazing Anne.
So… Yeah… flawed…
However, on the flip side let us say that a group of people are voting what to order in for lunch.
Let’s say there are 7 people. 2 are weird and vote for weeds and dirt… cause… weird. 1 votes for ham and pineapple pizza, 1 votes for meat lovers, 1 votes for spicy pizza, one for chicken pizza, one for chef’s special. So despite the fact we have 5 out of 7 clearly wanting pizza, 2 people voted for weeds and dirt and that is what everyone ends up eating.
So… yeah… flawed…
So which is better? Not the point. The point is which system are we using because that is the system you need to win. Those are the rules. You can moan all you like that your cricket team scored more sixes, but they still lose if they are the team all out with the lowest runs, because total runs is how the game is decided.
The problem is that people don’t understand the basics. Remember how it is often described as Two Party Preferred? Remember how the lowest candidates are reassigned first?
What this means in real terms is that if you are top two (calling it what it is, Labor or Liberal), then in nearly all seats you are going to be up the top. Votes are reassigned from the bottom so as long as you are ‘top two’ your preference votes will NOT BE COUNTED.
Preferences, to put it bluntly, are for the losers.
So if you are a Green then in sane areas you are going to get 10% of the primary vote compared to the 30 – 40% for the Labor and Liberal punters. You are going to get reassigned first. The Green preferences are going to be given to someone else because, to put it bluntly, you are a loser.
But because you are a loser, your preferences are now important.
However if you are top two (Labor and Liberals for the most part) it really doesn’t matter at all where you tell people to put their preferences because you are not going to have your vote reassigned. In most seats Labor can put Liberal second and vice versa because being top two IT DOESN’T MATTER.
Preferencing for major parties is all about public image and sucking up to the ABC.
So… that is the Green lower house card, more or less.
The White Upper House card? yeah… that is a total mess. I can attempt to explain it but it is going to take a LOT longer.
111
MudCrab:
How about a cut off? That is the candidates with less than X% get their votes (including preferences) discarded. Eliminates Whacky William & Virulent Vincent, and anybody voting for them must be thought to lack judgement.
The other problem is that a lot of people vote Greens precisely because they won’t get elected but because the voters don’t like either of the 2 major parties.
30
Preferential voting can be summed up by ‘You get the politician people hate the least’
60
Yes.
10
Until they win the election and Julia Gillard stabs you in the back. Then the people get exactly what they didn’t want.
10
Don’t know whether that’s proportional or preferential you mean. I have a very simple explanation for it (Our system is Proportional AND Preferential.
Its Proportional because the electoral commission works to keep all electorates about the same size so that each vote elects the same portion of a candidate. This however is very unfair to many because proportionally more people live in cities and thus proportionality favours the city and rural communities that don’t elect so many candidates are ignored. In the USA for example they have the electoral college to avoid the population concentration in California and Florida from distorting their cross country representation.
As for preferential, its best to look at it this way.
We run an election each candidate A, B, C, D gets votes from highest to lowest count. Now lets say noone gets 50% so we kick out the last place (D) and have a run off with 3 candidates.
These candidates score another set of votes but let’s say again noone gets 50%. So once again we kick out the last placed candidate and then have a runoff election with just 2 candidates, (one of them MUST get 50%+1, if its draw then another runoff needs to be held)
Using the preferential system we can combine the first election and all the runoffs into the same poll.
So fist time around the results are A,B,C,D now D gets kicked out so the electoral commission assumes that in the first runoff the people that voted A,B,C would still vote A,B,C but D’s voters would need to choose among A,B,C so D’s voters second preferences are used to do that.
Now We Have Candidates A,B,C with new vote tallies and possibly in a different order using D’s second preferences. Candidate C gets kicked out, Once again the electoral commission assumes those that voted for A,B and those that voted for D with A,B as second preference would still vote for A,B in the second runoff, and then those people that voted for D with C as second preference have their third preference used to vote between A and B, and Those that voted for C have their second preference used to runoff vote for A or B or their third preference if their second preference happened to be D (who is already out)
So Preferential voting is exactly like voting in a primary election and a series of runoff elections until there us a clear winner, except that you are not allowed to change your mind between runoffs.
It gets a little more complicated than that. In this example I’ve assumes than A,B,C & D don’t change order after each runoff, but they can. For example after D’s second preferences are applied in the first runoff maybe A is last, then A would get kicked out.
The system is fair (oh except perhaps you aught to be able to opt out of runoffs by not allocating a preference (called optional preferential voting)), the public perception about unfairness of preferential voting comes about because of so-called preference deals.
Preference Deals.
In the election YOU decide your preferences, no political party can decide that for you unless you empower them by following their how to vote card (HTV), in the commonwealth senate election you can partially follow a HTV card by voting above the line but only the order for that party. The problem is that A LOT OF VOTERS DO FOLLOW HTV CARDS. Preference deals decide between the parties what order candidates not in that party appear on the parties HTV card. If the Labor party puts greens first after themselves on the Labor HTV card then greens get the second preference of all Labor voters that follow Labors HTV card so preference deals don’t decide any preferences but they do influence a lot of preference votes because a lot of people vote to the HTV cards. It’s particularly advantageous if you are high up on one of the major parties HTV card.
Many in the public interpret all the fuss about preference deals as that in some way parties can dish out preference votes to each other, it’s not the case, they are dishing out the “Influence” they have over preferences among people that follow their How To Vote Cards. The clear lesson here is decide your own preferences, and don’t follow HTV cards.
I hope this explains a bit about our electoral system and helps someone.
31
Good.
10
In preferences, Scott Morrison put Labor ahead of One Nation.
Which is why I voted one nation.
Morrison has since done very little to convince me I should vote Liberal in any future election.
140
H
“Morrison has since done very little to convince me I should vote Liberal in any future election.”
Maybe not but likely the ALP/Greens have
20
The Libs also preferenced the greens in 2010 giving Adam Bandt the first ever seat for the greens.
60
I don’t either but I am a US voter. However, I strongly suspect it was designed not to be understood by most voters. Especially those voters who don’t bother to think for themselves and vote the way their significant others say they should vote. By significant others I don’t mean spouses, I mean the political talking heads who are more than happy to tell others how to vote.
The future will be won by one self defined self directed individual at a time acting rationally. Otherwise, it is a fast down hill run.
170
There’s nothing complex about the principle……
It simply means that in a multi-party system, a party cannot gain power if the majority of voters actively oppose them.
Under a firs-past-the-post system, a party can win power with 40% of the vote, if the opposing vote is split by two or more other parties. First Past the Post inevitably rewards the two largest parties while making votes for alternative parties irrelevant.
To put it in American terms. If my bjgggest fear is a Democrat President , With a preferential system I could vote for a Libertarian candidate – even if try are unlikely to win – knowing that my second preference can be allocated to a Republican . This I am still voting against the Democrat, even if my preferred candidate doesnt win.
It only gets “complex” when the sheep let other people allocate their preferences for them.
70
It’s not, see my explanation above, the Preferential system simulates a primary election followed by a series of runoff elections, it’s really as simple as that
60
That’s it in a nutshell bobl. So few understand this and sweat over preferences when they are voting “1” for a major party. In this case their pref will never be counted.
I can understand US objection, their system is already “the best in the world that EVERYBODY envies”.
40
Preferences need to be optional.
20
Voting needs to optional, that solves nearly all the other problems with the system.
60
I will have to take your word for it.
That was my point exactly! If you let other people do your thinking and choosing for you, you deserve everything that happens as a consequence. If you want to survive beyond this afternoon, THINK FOR YOURSELF and take responsibility for what happens after you do. Otherwise you are already a sheared sheep heading for the mutton factory.
30
The question is whether the Liberals will do the same. Hobart, Adelaide and Darwin and Canberra are Public Service cities. Malcolm’s Turnbull’s entire vision was to form a partnership with the Greens and so to wipe the hated Labor party off the map, the people who rejected him despite his Labor royalty status. Like his great uncle George Lansbury, head of the UK Labor party in 1932, he also was going to wreck the Labor party. The fact is that while most Liberals win in their own right, most Labor members are in the job only with Green preferences. A Liberal Green alliance would dominate parliament. We had the farce of Labor in partnership with the Greens and Malcolm’s Liberals courting them and copying Green Climate policies. Snowy II is a criminal waste of public money. The Greens with only one seat out of 200 in the democratic House of Representatives dictated all Labor policy and Green Senator Bob Brown stood next to Julia Gillard on the steps of parliament as co-rulers of Australia. Gillard was a Union and Green puppet.
Personally people who work for the government should not vote as a condition of taking a government job because they are totally compromised and always vote in more Government, more public servants, more taxation not less. Taxation is their entire income. So it’s a brave move to ignore Hobart and talk about real jobs in Tasmania, because half the jobs are working for the government and taxing those who don’t, the only ones earning any money. In the 2016 US election, 98.6% of Washington DC voted for Hillary, as always.
As a personal gripe, this is happening in the third tier of government too. In our local council, the average wage is $110,000, far above the Australian average wage. In recent analysis only 15% of their massive income from rapidly increasing rates and fines and parking fees and the like is actually spent on rubbish and roads. The rest is spent on themselves and their favorite Green ab*riginal and Climate Change and Alphabet people causes while after careful sorting our rubbish is actually just dumped in China and the Philipines at our expense. No care and no responsibility from the Greens. Last year one Melbourne council refused to recognize Australia Day. However they still all took the day off on full pay. Green ethics. A contradiction in terms. Hypocrites.
330
As always, TdeF, you hit the nail directly on the head.
At the last State election, a lot of us regarded Bec White as just another Yummy Mummy, but you are correct to point out that this is a rather courageous move on her part.
While I oppose nearly all of her policies, (if you can call ALP agitprop as policy), White is a savvy politician, quite different than the dodos that make up the Greens, and will serve up the Hodgeson government some stiff competition next election, rather than just a cunning array of stunts.
60
Stunning.
30
Memo ALP. Separate beds in the same room won’t work either. It is to be a messy divorce to be half convincing.
170
There’s no accounting for bad taste, is there?
40
This brief history first appeared on the website of the Australian Greens in the late 1990s.
The precise date of the post is not known …
“In 1984 the fiery parliamentarian and champion of the West German Greens, Petra Kelly, made her second visit to Australia.
She urged that the various Greens in Australia develop a national identity.
Partly as a result of this, just after Christmas of the same year, 50 Greens activists gathered in Tasmania to organise a national conference.”
https://australianpolitics.com/1999/01/01/an-early-history-of-the-greens.html
12 November 2014: Greens say sorry for past paedophilia ties
“The Green Party on Wednesday apologized to victims of sexual abuse for its support of paedophilic groups in the 1980s.”
https://www.thelocal.de/20141112/greens-say-sorry-for-past-paedophilia-ties
This history should be enough to shame anyone associated with the party and its policies.
-warning: These two links triggered facebook to block my account.
70
“…State Labor Party attacks and vows never to work with Greens again…”
If anyone believes this, then please contact me, I have a couple of bridges, an opera house, and a breeding pair of unicorns to sell at very reasonable prices.
250
Here’s another example of a Green scheme:
What would be far more valuable to the developing world diesel generators (for a start) and electricity to run pumps, purifying systems, lighting etc. Giving them tags that indicate when water dragged out of a well by hand is or isn’t safe to drink is pretty much ‘leaving them behind’.
170
“Giving them tags that indicate when water dragged out of a well by hand is or isn’t safe to drink is pretty much ‘leaving them behind’.”
And if it isn’t safe you choose “dehydrate”?
70
Not tags: stickers. She must have invented a fantastic glue to be able to attach it to water. There’s a fortune there!
Best of all is for them to add several pats of camel/cow/zebra dung to the fire to boil the water for at least three minutes to make it safe. If that was common practice, who would ever need stickers … to attach to water :-),,, at all?
20
Sodis Stickers? Sodis Water Stickers?? A creation by The Goodies signifying…???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7lbqiE3LWQ
10
The Europeans and their universal offspring around the world have done nothing for Africa except exploitation over 500 years. I blame Christianity, but the heathens have no qualms about dragging people out of poverty.
‘The importance of water as a resource is not limited to sanitation and drinking, since it is crucial to many activities, including agriculture, electric power production, transportation and mining.
‘In Uganda, China International Water and Electricity Corp built a dam costing $568 million. The Isimba Hydropower Dam was launched in March and is expected to add 184 megawatts to the national grid. China is also financing Karuma Hydropower, a 600-MW dam costing $2 billion in northern Uganda.’
China Daily
71
I have to say that the way the west and their so-called charities treat third world countries is disgusting. Some years ago I read about a scheme where one of these dogooder groups were designing bicycle powered pumps for some poor country, where all that the people wanted were diesel pumps for their wells. But oh no, that would cause global warming.
100
nice to see a reference to that. More likely a problem with diesel supply so a solution that didn’t rely on supply was developed.
44
Here’s one: https://permaculturenews.org/2013/12/18/bicycle-powered-water-pump-malawi-africa/
Here’s another: https://www.murdoch.edu.au/School-of-Engineering-and-Information-Technology/_document/Newsletter-documents/8637-BicycleWaterPumpSign_web.pdf
And another: https://www.wired.com/2011/02/bike-purifies-water-with-pedal-power/
Yet another: https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/bicycle-powered-irrigation-pump/
Why not introduce these concepts in the western world for all the warming worriers and see how long they last?
40
none of these reference the preference of the locals for diesel or whether diesel is a feasible option. I don’t ask for references if I’ve not looked already.
06
Unfortunately I can’t find the original reference that I quoted. I had placed it in one of my link folders, but can’t locate it. I particularly remember this one as this ‘initiative’ was lambasted quite heavily for it’s western style solution to global poverty.
And with Google now being totally Left leaning, you can’t find contrarian articles easily, if at all. But if you’re a dyed in the wool Greenie, then of course you won’t believe a word of what I said and will make up all manner of excuses to counter such statements.
40
So only left leaning greenies require evidence before forming a view?
07
I gather that you looked at the links that I provided? These are but a few offering exactly the same solutions to developing countries. There are no offerings of motorised/electric water pumps, diesel being the most efficient, just third world solutions for third world countries.
You realise that even in Australia, there are tens of thousands of properties that rely on electric pumps to supply household water, many also relying on diesel generators for electricity. Even the unwashed Greenies do so, but for some reason they don’t use bicycle powered water pumps that they try to push on developing countries. Why is that?
Given the choice of a diesel powered generator and electric water pump over a bicycle driven water pump, which do you really think those in the developing world would choose? Just think, that diesel generator could also provide water for irrigating crops etc, lighting and heating for homes etc.
But sorry, that’s not evidence. My bad.
70
So you are saying that in the links you provided about using human powered pumps there was only human powered pumps mentioned. Seems that your links were about the subjects they were about.
06
So why the emphasis on bicycle powered pumps etc and stupid water testing devices in developing countries when far more efficient and effective systems already exist? Why aren’t any of these things suggested for use in western countries?
I would think every Green worth their kale would jump into their Lycra suits and embrace this planet saving technology, yet it’s all focused on developing countries and nary to be seen in any warming worrier’s back yard.
Maybe every Green’s backyard could have one of these: https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2010/07/01/the-playpump-what-went-wrong/.
And then there are all these pedal powered tools that no Green is adopting: https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/05/pedal-powered-farms-and-factories.html
40
Again… all you are doing is making claims. Who said, no one is doing it? I’ve seen people on farms doing things manually, like pumping, simply because they can deploy these techniques to sites, sites where they access on foot or, if luck, on 2 a farm bike.
Why would every person of any cliche that you dream up to lump together people you don’t agree with, do a particular thing because of your spurious claims? Why not provide portable quick to deploy solutions to particular problems? You claim that other solutions exist without knowing anything about the circumstances in which they are deployed. Is there a road, is there access to parts and mechanics, can you drop diesel from a plane? Basically, you can bluster all you like because you, and the people reading what you bluster about, have no idea whether anything you say is correct or even remotely relevant.
17
Gee aye writes;
You claim that other solutions exist without knowing anything about the circumstances in which they are deployed. Is there a road, is there access to parts and mechanics
So… are you suggesting that unless you have “1st World” infrastructure you don’t get offered/shouldn’t get offered “1st World” solutions?
(1st World is a poor choice of words in this context. The original meaning of 1st, 2nd and 3rd World was to divide the map into geo-political blocks. 3rd World did not originally mean primitive dirt farmers, it was simply the countries of the world that were not openly ‘Pro West’ (1st World) or ‘Pro Communism’ (2nd World))
40
I see that you’re becoming upset over genuine ‘inconvenient truths’.
30
Mudcrab…how do you infer that? Bemused just made that up what he wrote, with cherry picking to boot.
What evidence is there they weren’t offered those things or what consultations and partnerships were formed to come make a decision? Where in any of bemused’s links was there any suggestion that other programs were not in place to provide “first world” solutions. The articles focused on particular things not everything.
04
I haven’t made up anything, what I stated was completely true. It was reported many years ago now, as evidenced by the age of the links I provided. The fact that I can’t produce that link today doesn’t make it less true.
The people in developing countries want the same, reliable (not looking at Australia) and efficient electricity that those in the western world enjoy. Whether that comes from generators of one sort or another, or large scale fossil fueled power stations, they most certainly don’t want bicycle powered options.
Of course, for many organisations, keeping the developing countries in poverty as long as possible is what they want. As long as there’s poverty, the trough is never empty for former.
30
Mr Leaf, 90% of Malawi’s fuel comes from burning wood, so electricity is in short supply. Not to worry, the Belt and Road is coming, and Malawi has a huge coal resource.
https://www.iea-coal.org/malawi-chinese-ambassador-says-kammwamba-300mw-coal-fired-power-plant-project-still-on/
10
Glad to see someone shares my opinion, I thought I was alone in the world. Nothing disgusts me more than the world vision ad, where they say little Freddie will die from unclean water, like somehow they don’t know how to boil water or use gravity filters in third world countries!.
My mantra for some time now has been that if they really meant what they say then these UN a$$es would build and operate a network of efficient clean fossil fuel power stations across the third world and supply these poor with the energy needed to have the same sanitation and work rate advantages as the rest of us. Then there’s no need for hand or bicycle pumps, disease falls through the floor due to properly sealed, machine built structures, sewerage and reticulated water. You don’t even have to build the pumping stations etc because with energy the people can build this stuff themselves.
I’d like to start a charity that builds power stations.
100
I’d like to start a charity that builds power stations
It would never be allowed because the UN and NGOs are all pushing a form of slavery based on the idea that all nig..s, chin.s etc are ignorant and can’t be allowed to have the equipment and education of the masters. That is why everything proposed is something that the masters would never use in the first place – solar panels that might charge a smartphone if they had one, bicycle powered pumps etc. when an electric or diesel pump would be much more efficient and so on.
The only way out of that form of thinking would be to disband the UN and all its tentacles. Doing so would resolve the global warming/climate change stupidity and allow the world to advance because of the money not spent on the scam.
20
Not strictly related to fuel supply, but river-dependent villages in Papua New Guinea can end up spending a lot of money on fuel for boats, arguably leaving them trapped in a situation where they cannot afford to do anything different in order to generate more money.
Some detractors say that they survived for thousands of years without petroleum, so they don’t need it, and are wasting their money, but I don’t see what is wrong with wanting to take advantage of technology. I do not know what the solution is.
40
EG….
In all of the former African colonies, there is a direct correlation between the average standard of living and the degree to which the nation has retained the three pillars of British colonial administration.
The Rule of Law.
An impartial Civil administration.
Universal education.
Sneer as much as you like about the British Empire’s imperfections, without those contributions, Africa would still be primitive, tribal, violent and wracked by the slave trade.
130
“Africa would still be primitive, tribal, violent and wracked by the slave trade.”
And it is very quickly heading back to where it came from…
60
Peter its difficult to imagine what the world would be like if the Europeans and Brits hadn’t colonised the world. This is a delicate issue, dealing with race relations, but I’m confident Beijing will pull the continent out of poverty within a couple of decades.
20
I knew china had something to do with political expediency in Tasmania. Thanks El G
35
Its a long shot, Beijing hates pseudo Marxists.
‘For more than 30 years Tasmania has had a sister state relationship with Fujian province, where Xi was once governor. In 2001 he awarded an honorary citizenship to late Tasmanian premier Jim Bacon, a regular visitor there since his university days.’
Guardian
40
so what?
15
Jim Bacon was a popular Labor figure and would not have countenanced a marriage with the Greens.
40
el gordo obtuso
05
The Tasmanian Liberals were dependent on Green members, which Labor rejected. Labor’s Jim Bacon won in 1998 and 2002, but was ‘still challenged by a resurgent Green Party over issues such as the clear-felling of old-growth forests, the Tasmanian Labor party held a clear majority in 2004 when ill-health forced Bacon to relinquish the leadership.’
So the old Communist became a Labor Premier, stood up to the Greens and won decisively.
30
More nauseating UN-speak, politically correct clichés redolent throughout their agendas, ‘Transformational’ and ‘Urban Habitat III. Classic red flag material.
The Greens and Labour … pretending to be different or just pretending, not unlike the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
Seriously, you’ve got to be kidding.
60
So, with Labor moving to the right, we’ll effectively have one party with two faces in Tasmania, bravo
121
Labor should just be themselves, centre left with workers interests at heart. The Coalition is centre right, its called democracy but the Greens have muddied the waters with emotive fears about the end of the world.
160
To get elected, you must have the centre voting for you. It does not matter if you are Labor or Liberal, as they must have the same policies to grab that group. Fringes don’t really count, if you can grab enough of the centre. Labor’s mistake was thinking that they could grap the centre from the liberals, and the left from greens, and got neither.
56
Labor lost because they believed in the polls and adjusted their platform in the run up to the election, big mistake.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-20/what-happened-to-the-climate-change-vote/11128128
30
Or, more simply, school kids don’t vote.
60
Not really.
Labors vote has been always split by the Communist Party, a while back the Communists formed the greens to popularise their communist platform among other likely totalitarians (True ecological Greens among them). Their strategy worked and the watermelon party (Greens) was born. This Party remains splitting Labors vote on its left flank but more powerful than ever. Labor had to stop the bleeding, and it did that by subsuming greens policy, this enabled Labor to share the true ecologists with the greens and limit the attrition on the left. The cost of this is that Labor has to own the stupendous cost of that green folly (now dominated by the climate change meme) and a large communist left flank has grown in the labor Party. Labor expected to retain the worker heartland despite trying to suck up the left. The economic irresponsibility of the ecological and communist flanks of the reformed labor party, means that they lose the vote of the economic rationalists )the so called centre.
In the grand experiment, however, Labor unexpectedly ended up losing more economic rationalists than it gained totalitarian left.
This happened because the deals of Hawke, keating, Howard era in the 80 and 90s propelled much of the heartland, the major unions members, from the lower class into the middle class. Your average sparky, miner or other tradie can earn well over $100K many of them are contractors (Small businesses or Labour hire) now (even the truckies) and Most are middle class. Labors heartland largely stopped being wage and salary earners independent of the economy and instead became beneficiaries of national economic success. This makes a lot of the heartland economic rationalists, and Labor lost them because of the irresponsible spending and natural flow of economic failure when Labor fails to manage the economy (Which carrying the weight of the totalitarian left almost guarantees). Labor hasn’t realised yet that there isn’t enough money available in the world for it to encompass the totalitarian left AND provide productivity for the economic rationalists at the same time.
In effect Labor under Rudd, Gillard and Shorten chose to abandon the economic rationalist centre to reinforce the left flank, that was a bad decision which it can probably no longer walk back. As a consequence it exists as a force only by relying on Green preferences, which makes it even less attractive to the worker heartland.
This is what has happened, I’ve watched as it transpired. I can’t see a way back for Labor
60
Both major parties became corrupted by the green slime, Turnbull was a snake.
Albo is leading the Opposition into the political wilderness, leaving behind a vacuum to be filled.
I’m confident Morrison understands the rudiments of climate change and he only needs a nudge to get him onboard the good ship Denialati.
‘He attended Sydney Boys High School before going on to complete a Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.) honours degree in applied economic geography at the University of New South Wales.’ wiki
10
Gee Fitz, I don’t think you deserved three red thumbs this time. I’ll give you a green to help compensate. lol
30
Ha! So the Greens are the face of Labor and Green policies the only policies of Labor? And without the Greens the other parties are the same? Really?
I would have thought there were still a least three major parties and more in the Senate and the proud party of Fisher, Scullin, Curtin, Chifley, Whitlam, Hawke, Keating, Rudd still had their own often good policies and unique vision long before the hapless and destructive and selfish Greens turned up.
A lot of Green voters are in fact Labor voters who expect their votes to go to Labor anyway, not the Liberals or National parties.
It will be good to have a good centrist Labor back when they dump their extremist friends who want no borders, massive taxation, windmills everywhere and the destruction of our
country to serve their totalitarian masters overseas.
100
And if Labor make a stand, they could throw the Greens out of the Senate. The people who put the Greens in the Senate are the tiny public service states of South Australia, Tasmania, Canberra and the NT where a vote for the Greens is not a vote for Labor. If Labor wants political power back without the Greens in the Senate, they need to distance themselves from the Greens. By swapping preferences with the Greens, the party of the Unions has given the Greens credibility and control of former Labor seats. The relationship is no longer symbiotic, it is parasitic and destructive, costing real Union jobs in mining, forestry, agriculture, shipping, transport, refining, power and many more. How many Union people does a windmill employ? None.
120
Labor doesn’t to move far to be “right” of the Liberal Party. !
We still have 3 leftist parties.
The soft, weak leftist-cow-towing Liberal party.
The union controlled Labor party
And the manic looney-left Greens.
60
missing word correction.
Labor doesn’t have to move far to be “right” of the Liberal Party
50
Morrison is extremely conservative. He suggested a third toilet for confused or alphabet people was ridiculous. He is right. He also stopped the boats, so he gets things done. And he tries not to offend the Greens but that’s not the same as agreeing with them. We will meet our Paris committments without doing anything more than we have done. He is no Tony Abbott but it is hard to be offended by him. His line about the toilets was just reported as being true and amusing. If Abbott had said that, it would be WWIII in the press.
80
Very observant.
Morrison might be the charismatic leader Australia has been craving.
10
May I expand on that Andy:
We still have 3 leftist parties.
The soft, weak leftist-cow-towing Liberal party, aka socialism.
The union controlled Labor party, aka communism.
And the manic looney-left Greens, aka marxism.
Therefore my earlier comments on this blog. All government leaders literally work for the UN (aka global elite).
They do not serve the Australian people. All decisions are made to please and obey their masters.
Liberal party (miracle election socialists) achievements so far:
– How many new dams or projects planned or approved for water security.
– Strategy to reduce immigration radically.
– How many new COAL fired power stations in planning or approved.
– Action plan to stop cultural marxism in our institutions (religious freedom & free speech?)
– Action plan to address runaway debt (Australian debt clock: https://australiandebtclock.com.au/ $ 3Bn to go then we hit $ 1 trillion).
– Sexualisation of our children, fake marriage, approve sodomy (all Agenda 21 goals supported by the Liberal/socialist Party).
“Small chance of success, certainty of death, what are we waiting for!”
The Australian voters are the problem (As someone has repeatedly said on this blog). Voting for the same NWO parties, over & over again.
30
If Labor moved substantially to the right from its current position of trying to outdo the lunacy of the Greens, it would still only barely make it to the center Left. Significant elements of the Shorten policy mix were definitely not capitalist and abandoned their blue collar base.
After the removal of leftist Turnbull, the Liberal party is still only barely center Right.
While the Tas ALP finally recognise the electoral folly of competing on the Left edge, the WA ALP have just voted for the formal adoption of Socialist principles. Talk about being out of touch.
30
“So, with Labor moving to the right, we’ll effectively have one party with two faces in Tasmania, bravo”
I nearly fell off my chair laughing at this….
10
Both are happy to accept Chinese money
03
New NOAA measuring system complies with federal standards
https://www.wnd.com/2019/08/official-no-u-s-warming-since-least-2005/
60
I’ve seen the CO2 map for yesterday and there was a distinct Northern / Southern Hemisphere difference .
Probably a glitch in the photo but not a good look .
20
Could be right. There is an annual spike in CO2 in the northern winter as the leaves fall and decompose.
https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/file/Hawaii+Carbon+Dioxide+Time-Series
30
Brilliant graph.
Warming has peaked despite the fact that CO2 keeps climbing steadily, so they are obviously not connected and it’s the end of that unproven and unlikely conjecture of CO2 driven warming. Seas are even falling around Antarctica.
Sadly it’s all downhill from here. Luckily the glaciers do not come North of 40 degrees but 10,000 years from now there may be no more Europe, Canada, Russia or America and Australia may be packed with people. With the extra CO2 and rainfall though, we might be able to feed a lot more people, refugees from the cold.
100
Interesting for what it doesn’t say.
The amount of CO2 dissolved in sea water is rising and the pH is dropping (about 0.05 when seasonal variation can be over 10 times that – in other places, not near Hawaii?
Also, if CO2 causes warming, and more CO2 is dissolving one wonders how that fits into Henry’s law.
40
What does pH is dropping mean? It is a very odd measure being minus the log10 Concentraion of H+. Dropping could mean that H+ was dropping which means more basic, higher pH. Or more acidic or more basic? Or dropping could mean the absolute magnitude is dropping, which means H+ is increasing and becoming more acidic?
20
Never work with the Greens again.
Until the next time.
80
Until the next election
40
It’s really about time people recognise the Greens Party of today is a cross between communism and fascism. As for the ALP not working with the Greens – don’t believe it. They need each other now more than ever. Then again if the ALP has found it’s conscious and is serious about not working with them then it has to be a good thing. It would be nice if the Greens just went away like other minor parties in the past. They have no place in a healthy society.
120
Just a minor point – because the devil is often in the detail:
“… built $800,000 tin-sheds for schools that needed libraries”
One should recognise that “libraries” are just as much of a problem as “tin sheds”. The purpose of a library is to allow teachers to pass students off to ancillary staff so they can avoid face-to-face- teaching. Sports grounds, halls, even breakfasts and obesity programs … Education spending is money spent on displacement activities for students and teachers and rarely has anything to do with education.
81
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!
These idiots lost the last election on economic issues, then promptly conspired with the Greens to install a rogue & unaccountable Liberal speaker to reduce the majority of the current government.
A speaker who now claims she is vastly overworked and underpaid.
Tasmanian Labor are telling White lies.
60
“Labor Party attacks and vows never to work with Greens again”…
…right up until there is a perceived electoral advantage in doing so (again).
80
Without Green preferences the ALP would struggle to more than a few seats so it isn’t going to happen. This is a problem of their own making and I like Ve watching them squirm.
70
Labor will never divest itself of the Greens, they like power too much.
30
The libs have moved so far left there is no constituency for them between the greens and libs.
20
Update:
The days of the Turnbull and Black Hand Faction left side of the Liberals and Nationals are over, they ended when Mr.Turnbull read the writing on the wall, resigned and left Parliament in 2018. Most of his BHF did the same by the time of the May 2019 federal election.
50
And wasn’t it hilarious when Morrison won? Julie Bishop could still be on $400Kpa with private jets, unlimited expenses, parties in New York and treated like Royalty.
har de ha ha ha.
She and Black Hand friends including Christoper Pyne never dreamed the real Conservatives would retain power, despite Black Hand’s best efforts to gift Bill Shorten and the Greens control. A lot of people laughed for days. It never ceases to amuse.
And Malcolm and Lucy Turnbull and Nicky Savva must still be frothing and banging and kicking things. Still Malcolm will get his $6Bn Snowy II and be remembered for being possibly as big a waste of money as his NBN, which after all was Conroy’s mad idea on the back of a beer coaster. Lucy has her $444Million to her friends to save a reef which does not need saving. Savva has had to rename and edit her book on the failure of the Deluded Conservatives without Tunrbull. So it looks like they have all kicked a behind.
90
Had, Turnbull the LINO is gone
20
The greatest service labor could do for Tas in particular and Aus in general is to help break the stranglehold of the MUA [seamans’ union] on our coastal shipping.
Tas has a couple of nice beers and a nice spriytzy mineral water that we never see because it is cheaper to ship from Europe than across the straight. The southern states will never get Qld or WA nat gas shipped direct because it is cheaper to buy it from Singapore even with two journeys.
70
1 Sept: Deutsche Welle: Greens expect big gains in Saxony, Brandenburg state elections
The Greens could score record results in Sunday’s elections in the eastern states of Brandenburg and Saxony. But they’ll have to contend with the rise of the far-right Alternative for Germany.
by Maximiliane Koschyk; Michaela Küfner contributed to this report
Polls put the Greens over 10%
In both Saxony and Brandenburg, the Greens won almost 6% in the last state parliament elections in 2014. According to the latest polling, the party could double these results in both states on September 1…
https://www.dw.com/en/greens-expect-big-gains-in-saxony-brandenburg-state-elections/a-50242883
2 Sept: Politico: 5 takeaways from Germany’s regional elections
The far-right Alternative for Germany scored second place in two state elections Sunday.
By Matthew Karnitschnig
2. The AfD is closer than ever to gaining real power
For now, all of the parties represented in Germany’s federal parliament maintain their steadfast refusal to govern together with the AfD. The question is how long that pledge will last if the far-right party continues to score results like Sunday’s. A look around Europe suggests not long…
In Saxony, for example, the Christian Democrats’ will most likely have to partner with the SPD and the Greens to form a government after Sunday’s results, even though the CDU’s local leader has said his own group has nothing in common with the environmental party.
In Brandenburg, the Greens are likely to join an SPD-led left-leaning coalition with the Linke, parties with which it has deep ideological differences when it comes to the question of coal mining, a pillar of the local economy.
The ideological gyrations necessary to justify such coalitions to the public will likely fuel the AfD’s argument that it is a victim of the political establishment…
4. All that glitters isn’t Green
They were also projected to post considerable gains in Sunday’s regional elections. And while the party did well, its showing was below what pollsters anticipated.
POLITICO’s Poll of Polls put the Greens at 14.4 percent in Brandenburg and 10.9 percent in Saxony, but the party finished with 10.8 in Brandenburg and 8.6 percent in Saxony. Though the results mark major gains for the Greens in both states, they also signal the “Green wave” is unlikely to become a tsunami in the east anytime soon…
https://www.politico.eu/article/5-takeaways-regional-elections-brandenburg-saxony/
30
2 Sept: Daily Mail: AP: Far-right AfD make gains in German state elections with their leader declaring ‘things can’t go much better than this’ – but they fail to win outright
(In Saxony) AfD took 27.5 per cent, which was its best performance yet in any state election and compares with 9.7 per cent five years ago…
(In Brandenburg) AfD won 23.5 per cent, up from 12.2 per cent in the 2014 state election…
Bernd Baumann, its chief whip in the national parliament, said it ‘pushes the issues forward that really interest people out there.’
‘I am glad that more and more people in the country say, ‘We will take our country back from the left-wing, green mainstream, from the old parties to certain media,” he said…
1 Sept: Deutsche Welle: Germany: AfD set for second spot in eastern elections
Voting has ended in Saxony and Brandenburg, two states in Germany’s former east. The far-right AfD will become the second biggest party in both regions.
by Elizabeth Schumacher
The far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) made gains in both states, at 27.5% in Saxony and 23.5% in Brandenburg. While these represent massive leaps from their results in 2014, when the party was only a year old, they’re very similar to the AfD’s scores in the two states in the last national election in 2017…
(FINAL PARAS) AfD may push for vote rerun
The AfD in Saxony has said it will push for Sunday’s result to be declared invalid, after legal troubles left them with too few candidates to fill their seats in the state parliament. Their 27.5% result should give them 38 seats, but the state constitutional court slashed their list from 61 candidates to 30, citing formal mistakes in the way the lists had been drawn up.
However, it’s possible the AfD will still end up with 38 people able to take seats, if the party wins enough of the direct contests in each voting constituency to plug the gap.
“We said before the election that we would in any case take the matter to court, as far as the cutting of the list is concerned,” said Jörg Urban, the AfD’s top candidate in Saxony, in an interview with regional public broadcaster MDR…
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-afd-set-for-second-spot-in-eastern-elections/a-50249887
26 Jul: Deutsche Welle: Germany’s AfD wins partial victory in court over candidate list
The far-right party was forced to reduce its number of candidates for an upcoming regional election in eastern Germany. A state constitutional court said part of that decision was “highly likely illegal.”
The state’s electoral commission reduced the candidate list from 61 to 18 for state elections in September because the party only elected the first 18 candidates at the same party convention.
The commission also rejected the candidates ranked 31 to 61 because they were elected using different voting procedures to the candidates from the top half of the list.
The constitutional court said the decision to reject the candidates ranked 19 to 30 was “highly likely illegal,” but it agreed with the commission’s reasoning for blocking the bottom half of the list.
The judges said barring any of the first 30 candidates could trigger a re-run of the election if the alleged discrepancies proved to be false…
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-afd-wins-partial-victory-in-court-over-candidate-list/a-49752849
20
‘then reneged…’
‘Trust me, I’m a Labor politician.’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Rvex_dawM (action begins at 2:25)
20
shame on ABC. appropriate, tho, for their low-information audience:
2 Sept: ABC: Australia’s old powerlines are holding back the renewable energy boom
7.30 By Liz Hobday and Lisa Divissi
Australian wind and solar farms are putting downward pressure on energy prices, and there are hundreds of new renewable facilities set to come online. But that green energy is stretching the country’s outdated network of transmission lines.
Australia’s high-capacity transmission lines were designed to service centralised electricity generation from coal-fired power stations.
But renewable projects are being built in parts of regional Australia where wind and solar produce the most energy…
‘All the electricity we currently consume could be produced through renewable energy’
“We are going through a transition, probably the most significant transformation in this industry that it’s ever gone through,” AEMO chief executive Audrey Zibelman said.
“And Australia is in many ways leading the way.
“One of our concerns is that the transmission capability we have in some of these regions just isn’t enough to accommodate the renewables.”…
Green Energy Markets analyst Tristan Edis tracks all the renewable projects being developed across Australia.
He says the issue of transmission capacity in regional Australia should have been recognised as early as 2007…
He claims the capacity of the renewable projects in the pipeline is now so great that, when it is added to existing green generation, it is almost enough to meet the electricity demands of the entire country.
“Essentially all of the electricity we currently consume could be produced through renewable energy,” Mr Edis said.
“In fact, we could start exporting electricity. We have some of the best resources in the world.”…
In Ballarat, the Treloar-Prenc family have been trying to fix a broken heater for the past week.
The temperature is set to drop to -1.5 degrees Celsius, so mum Lisa has resorted to burning firewood to keep warm.
“We’ve been buying bags for $16 for five kilos,” she told 7.30.
“It’s a small bag with a few logs in it. It will probably [last us] one night.”
In the meantime their bills have been going up…
The irony is that they live in a renewable energy hotspot, where wind and solar farms are supplying energy to the entire electricity grid for next to nothing.
It is a problem that Ms Zibelman acknowledges..
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-02/powerline-infrastructure-holding-back-renewable-energy-boom/11457694
21
Tristam Edis is a mate of our departed troll Julian (gone but not missed).
““Essentially all of the electricity we currently consume could be produced through renewable energy,” Mr Edis said.”
Doubtful and we want it spread out to when we want it.
““In fact, we could start exporting electricity.” Where? I am not sure how much Papua New Guinea consumes, but they seem to be the only outlet near enough to reduce transmission losses, and not on the other side of an active tectonic divide.
Perhaps Tristam envisions sending bags of MWh via hydrogen filled zeppelins?
60
Those authors now have to answer the question of how that power is to be transmitted.
In great detail. Complete with engineering specifications.
Idiots!
30
What makes a transmission line “old”?
The conductors are copper or aluminium and the insulators glass or porcelain. Neither are lifed items.
30
Perhaps the owners of those magnificent solar farms should have factored in the costs of building their own connectors…
Cheers,
Dave B
20
the anti-democratic Greens:
VIDEO: 2min01: Sept: Breitbart: WATCH: Green Politician Arrested at London Anti-Boris Protest
by Jack Montgomery
A member of the London Assembly representing the left-liberal Green Party was arrested for blocking traffic during street protests against Boris Johnson’s decision to prorogue (temporarily suspend) Parliament ahead of the Brexit deadline.
Caroline Russell was filmed performing a conga and a “ring-a-ring o’ roses” type dance with other middle-aged women while singing “here we go round the roundabout” and later chanting “you shut down the Parliament, we shut down the streets” as part of wider protests — composed largely if not exclusively of Remainers — against the Prime Minister’s decision to suspend Parliament for a short while ahead of the Brexit referendum…
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/09/01/watch-green-politician-arrested-at-london-anti-boris-protest/
29 Aug: NewStatesman: Prorogation protests spring up across the country
Protestors took to the streets in London and in major cities across the United Kingdom.
by Ailbhe Rea
PIC: EU FLAT PROTEST
Among the crowds of people waving EU flags, wearing People’s Vote stickers, or standing under the banner of their local Labour, SWP or Green party branch, were many unadorned with the paraphernalia of protest…
Addressing the crowds, (Labour’s Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott) declared: “This is an attack on democracy. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter where you stand on Brexit.”…
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/08/prorogation-protests-spring-across-country
19 Aug: UK Express: Diane Abbott promises to campaign for Remain to rid UK of “Brexit shambles”
DIANE ABBOTT has pledged to campaign for Remain in a second Brexit referendum in order to end the “Brexit shambles”.
Diane Abbott’s public show of support for Remain follows an interview with John McDonnell (on BBC Radio 4) this morning, where the shadow chancellor said he would campaign to stay in the EU against a Brexit deal negotiated by the Labour Party. He vowed a Labour government would put Brexit back to the people in a second referendum as Mr McDonnell pledged to back Remain. Ms Abbott responded on Twitter, saying it was a “great interview” and pledged to stand with Mr McDonnell…
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1167557/brexit-news-diane-abbott-john-mcdonnell-jeremy-corbyn
TWEET: Nigel Farage, leader of Brexit Party
Sadly some remainers have become radicalised, to the extent that normal campaigning is becoming impossible.
For a civilised democracy to work ***you need the losers consent***, politicians not accepting the referendum result have led us to this.
20 May 2019
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1130453547819180033
30
29 Aug: Stuff NZ: ACT leader calls Greens ‘wowsers’ for opposing RWC bill
by Yvette McCullough of RNZ
The Greens have been labelled “wowsers” and accused of preferring people smoke “wacky-tobaccy” than have a beer – as they stood as the sole opposition to a bill allowing venues to stay open for the Rugby World Cup.
The bill rushed through a streamlined process in the House on Wednesday, in a fiery and colourful debate…
But Greens co-leader Marama Davidson warned that the bill has a dangerous subtext.
“How much longer are we going to continue to tag the sporting culture of our country, which I am incredibly proud of, to drinking?” she said.
ACT leader David Seymour called out the Greens for being “wowsers”.
“The wowsers are never far from our politics in this country and they lie in wait to ruin anyone’s fun that may seek to have it”…
Green MP Jan Logie embraced Seymour’s insult, saying if taking a strong stance against linking rugby with alcohol makes her a “wowser”, she’s ok with that…
But National MP Gerry Brownlee rebuked the Greens position, describing it as “very sad” and suggested it reeked of hypocrisy.
“I wonder if all of those who are going to turn up to bars to watch these games would be more acceptable in the Greens’ eyes if they were having a couple of puffs on the old wacky baccy and rather than looking at the screen, just imagining what’s going on”, Brownlee said…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115366905/act-leader-calls-greens-wowsers-for-opposing-rwc-bill
30 Aug: TheLocalGermany: DPA: Could cheap flights in Germany receive a ‘penalty tax’?
The CSU, Germany’s third largest political party and dominant party of Bavaria, therefore wants to introduce a minimum price for airline tickets, according to the newspaper. All flights under €50 would be subject to the penalty tax, to be paid by consumers…
The proposal follows on the heels of the Green party’s proposal to put a complete end domestic flights in Germany in order to cut carbon emissions and incentivize more people to travel by train…
“We want a climate bonus, which means that climate protection measures should be tax-deductable up to a sum of €10,000,” said the Bavarian Prime Minister to the “Augsburger Allgemeine” on Friday.
“Each person would be able to deduct 20 percent of the costs directly from income tax if he saves energy – for example by installing a climate-friendly heating system.”…
https://www.thelocal.de/20190830/germany-looks-to-penalize-cheap-flights-to-cut-carbon-emissions
1 Sept: WinnipegFreePress: Greens promise to change electoral system, lower voting age to 16
By Maggie Macintosh
Green Party of Manitoba candidates promised Saturday morning during a press conference at the party’s headquarters that if elected Sept. 10, their party would reform the electoral system to implement proportional representation in future elections…
Under this system, 50 of 57 seats would be allocated by the traditional first-past-the-post system. However, the remainder would be filled based on each party’s share of the popular vote…
There have yet to be any Green politicians elected to represent constituents in Manitoba’s legislature. If such a system were in place three years ago, the Greens said the party could have won three seats in the 2016 provincial election…
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/special/provincial-election/greens-promise-to-change-electoral-system-lower-voting-age-to-16-559008922.html
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Well. what they’re really against is all the CO2 which would be released to the atmosphere for every beer opened. Wowsers is too tame: how about Stupid?
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I’ll still be writing Labor/Greens.
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30 Aug: Politico: Brussels plans to put the squeeze on commuters
It puts pressure on Flanders and Wallonia to join in if they want to protect their drivers from road charges.
By Hanne Cokelaere
Brussels wants to charge drivers for entering the city — a step that’s likely to inflame relations between the country’s fractious nationalities.
The capital’s new Mobility Minister Elke Van Den Brandt (Greens) announced Wednesday that the Brussels regional government will roll out a road tolling system by the end of 2024. Under the plan, people driving into Brussels would have to pay a toll, with higher charges for those arriving in peak traffic or in more polluting vehicles.
But the Green Party minister’s plan exacerbates tensions between Brussels, Flanders and Wallonia. That’s because the toll is tied to cutting other road use taxes to compensate drivers. People from regions not taking part in the scheme would still have to pay the charge when driving into Brussels, but wouldn’t get a tax cut…
https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-plans-to-put-the-squeeze-on-commuters/
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2 Sept: MiningMonthly: United Wambo gets green tick with Scope 3 conditions
by Lou Caruana
THE New South Wales Independent Planning Commission has approved the $381 million United Wambo Coal project in the Hunter Valley with a condition that it exports coal to countries that have accepted the Paris climate change agreement.
United Collieries – which is a joint venture between Glencore and Peabody – proposes integrating and expanding open cut mining operations at the existing United Wambo coal mine and United colliery to facilitate the extraction of an additional 150 million tonnes of run-of-mine coal over a 23-year period.
The IPC said Scope 1 and 2 greenhouse gas emissions had been adequately minimised as far as practicable and within the capacity of the applicant to control.
“As identified by the Applicant, Scope 3 GHGEs would also be minimised as far as practicable, as the most likely export destinations for the project’s coal will be to countries that are a party to the Paris Agreement or that otherwise have equivalent domestic policies for reducing GHGEs,” it said.
“Accordingly, a proposed condition of consent is imposed to implement this.”…READ ON
https://www.miningmonthly.com/sustainability/international-coal-news/1370565/united-wambo-gets-green-tick-with-scope-3-conditions
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29 Aug: AFR: Glencore mine forced to sell to Paris signatories
by Mark Ludlow
A new coal mine has been approved by NSW’s Independent Planning Commission on the proviso it only exports to countries that are party to the Paris climate agreement or have a similar plan to bring down carbon emissions.
The strict conditions give the IPC remarkable powers, with the company’s export plans having to be approved by the NSW Planning, Industry and Environment Secretary, Jim Betts…
The proposal, which had faced strong opposition locally and from environmental activists, was approved by the IPC on Thursday…
However, the IPC conceded there was “no mechanism to assess the applicant’s responsibilities”.
The commission noted that Taiwan, which is one of the countries expected to receive coal from the new mine, had not signed up to the Paris agreement…
https://www.afr.com/companies/agriculture/approval-restricts-coal-from-new-mine-to-carbon-cutting-countries-20190829-p52lyd
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And here was I thinking one of the reasons Australia federated was to eliminate trade restrictions…
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The devil is always in the detail – the proof of the pudding is always in the eating. When Labor lost the federal election due to the backlash against all the racism and sexism and hate of their identity politics plus all the extra taxes etc. the new Labour leader said that they would not be pursuing identity politics and then promptly introduced a quota system with all it’s inherent discrimination (sexual) for the shadow cabinet. Seems like they never learn. Now the Tassie Labor want to split from the Greens? well we can only see whether they are serious by the actual actions.
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read all:
29 Aug: ABC: United Wambo open cut coal ‘super pit’ approved for NSW Hunter Valley with export conditions
ABC Upper Hunter By Amelia Bernasconi
“A condition like this has never been imposed on an Australian coal mine in my experience,” said Lock The Gate coordinator Georgina Woods.
“It is unprecedented really to start putting the Australian coal export industry, of which the Hunter is really the core, into a global context of climate change and efforts to mitigate it.”…
The companies behind the joint venture, Glencore and Peabody, told the IPC it would provide 500 full-time-equivalent jobs and could extract 10 million tonnes a year for 23 years, operating 24 hours, seven days a week.
While the NSW Minerals Council labelled the condition as “curious”, it said the approval was positive news for both the industry and the Hunter Valley’s economy.
“It’s a good shot in the arm for the sector to see this approval after so long,” chief executive Stephen Galilee said…
Former mining electrician Rob McLaughlin and his wife AnneMaree live near numerous coal mines at their home at Bulga.
They said while they were disappointed United Wambo Coal had been approved, they were not surprised…
“Here we are in a climate emergency and they’re just pumping it out like there’s no tomorrow,” she said.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-29/united-wambo-approved-with-paris-climate-agreement-conditions/11460970
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This is a truly bizarre development which, if unchecked at the outset, will annihilate Australia’s export economy in short order.
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2 Sept: AFR: Victoria’s energy plan is a ‘leap of faith’
by Angela Macdonald-Smith and Aaron Patrick
Victoria’s aggressive wind and solar push will shut down coal power stations and could send electricity prices skyrocketing, EnergyAustralia has bluntly told the state Labor government.
In a warning that the rapid adoption of renewable energy could spread power grid instability from South Australia to Victoria, EnergyAustralia said the Victorian government was going to force the Yallourn coal power station in Gippsland to close before its 2032 end-of-life date and likely shut other coal plants too.
The energy utility, which is led by Reserve Bank of Australia director Catherine Tanna, accused the government of embarking on a “leap of faith” by declining to conduct a thorough analysis of the impact on electricity prices and the possibility of blackouts from steep reductions in greenhouse gas emissions…
Victoria generated 82 per cent of its electricity from fossil fuels last year, a figure the government of Premier Daniel Andrews is trying to lower by subsidising the installation of solar panels on 770,000 homes. In two decades the state plans to generate half its power from renewable sources, which would help cut emissions by 60 per cent…READ ON
https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/victoria-s-energy-plan-is-a-leap-of-faith-20190831-p52mp8
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The Andrews government in picking up the pace of its destruction of our livelihoods. We’ve three more years of this sabotage ahead of us and then the opposition could choose to “run dead” again…
It may be time to emigrate to WA or Qld.
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“is picking up”
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OT but this just dropped in my in box with just one word “Florida”. It is prolly fair dinkum.
https://i.redd.it/0itacz0lv2k31.jpg
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Are they the new-and-improved Mobile Wind Turbines ready to chase the breeze up the coast?
Fair bit of heavy metal and diesel parked up in that paddock – the only way to fight climate change and survive!
Here’s the fire truck I drive occasionally on weekends (and no, I’m not the ‘fireman’ in the pic):
https://www.topbuspartybus.com/fire-truck/
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Off topic but hey, the Greens are off the planet so why not have a little fun:
Western Australia’s Bluff Knoll in for yet another dusting of snow Wednesday: max temp 0˚C, wind chill -7˚C.
https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Bluff-Knoll/6day/top
Same for Puncak Jaya in the Indonesian part of New Guinea: Wednesday max temp 0˚C, wind chill -6˚C, snow showers all week.
https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Carstensz-Pyramid/6day/top
Tropical storm Dorian now classified as a Cat 5? Shirley they must be joking! Watched a US news video by some young Floridian journalist ‘on the spot’ in the Bahamas and all the houses and trees were still standing… that ain’t no Cat 5 ‘cane… looked like a regular summer’s day in Tasmania or Southland. Satellite stats via NOAA:
http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/tc_realtime/storm.asp?storm_identifier=AL052019
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The Sudden Stratospheric Warming starting to happen in Antarctica (it will be over the next couple of weeks maybe) should bring more of that weather. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens here, too.
Dorian’s going up the east coast — won’t land fall. Isn’t it a Cat 2 ‘cane? That was the last one I saw …
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“The Morrison Government is in denial about the economy. A soft economy has been their blind spot, and it’s becoming their weak spot.”
They are kidding arent they? the party that does nothing much than feed the free sh1t army thinks the LNP has a weak spot in regard to a slowing economy???
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The only way for them to not repeat their “mistake” is to dissolve their party and release all members to join the conservative party(ies).
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read all:
2 Sept: AFR: Solar-induced negative power prices offset by spikes
by Angela Macdonald-Smith
The increasing regularity with which wholesale power prices are sinking below $0 (LINK) during sunny and windy days is being more than cancelled out by more frequent high prices, defying expectations of a softening in levels overall.
Prices across the National Electricity Market but in particular in South Australia and Queensland are increasingly hitting zero or below, the result of an abundance of solar and wind power generation combined with reduced demand from the grid due to rooftop solar and subdued power use overall.
But those periods are often sandwiched by prices of $100 a megawatt-hour or higher, reflecting wild swings in the supply-demand balance during the day caused by variable wind and solar power generation.
South Australia saw negative spot electricity prices for 9.9 per cent of August, according to adviser Energy Edge
But March quarter prices in the renewables-dominated South Australia market have soared, reflecting grave worries about supply security, at $154 a megawatt-hour, only just lower than summer blackout-prone Victoria.
In Victoria, negative prices have also been on the rise, but so have periods of $100-plus per megawatt-hour prices, Energy Edge said, pointing out the state has seen nearly 50 per cent of prices above that level so far this year.
The volatility is concerning owners of older baseload coal power generators in Victoria, such as EnergyAustralia, which has told the Victorian government that its emissions and renewable energy targets will force the early closure of Yallourn, risking the sort of spike in power prices seen after the Hazelwood plant closure in 2017…READ ON
https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/solar-induced-negative-power-prices-offset-by-spikes-20190902-p52n32
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read all:
2 Sept: LatrobeValleyExpress: Yallourn closure fears ignited
by Tracey Matthies
Victorian emissions targets would almost certainly force the early closure of the Yallourn Power Station, according to the station’s owner, EnergyAustralia.
The company made the claim in a strongly-worded response, published on Friday, to the Final Report of the Independent Expert Panel: Interim Emissions Reduction Targets for Victoria (2021-2030). However, the document also reiterated EnergyAustralia’s commitment to keep the power station open until 2032.
EnergyAustralia’s Executive-Markets Ross Edwards said the key messages in the submission were “Yallourn is playing a vital role in the community, providing good jobs, and protecting the stability of the state’s energy system”.
However, the submission also said “the hand of government will heavily determine the fate of Yallourn” because the panel’s emissions reduction targets “imply a decarbonisation rate that unambiguously suggests the closure of Yallourn well before its 2032 end-of-life and would likely require the closure of other brown coal power stations”…READ ALL
http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/6360559/yallourn-closure-fears-ignited/
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behind paywall:
Victoria emissions goals ‘may shut plants, cost jobs’
The Australian-9 hours ago
The Geelong refinery – which provides half of Victoria’s fuel needs and 10 per cent overall for Australia – faces a “distorted” competitive … the refinery’s owner Viva Energy said in a submission to the Victorian government…
2 Sept: EnergyMag: Solar rebate allocation portal crashes hours after opening
Solar Victoria tweeted about the crash stating technical difficulties had occurred.
“Our developers are still working to resolve the technical issues from this morning. We understand customers are eager to apply for the solar rebate. We will provide an update on when the portal will reopen on social media and our website as soon as we can.”…READ ON
https://www.energymagazine.com.au/solar-rebate-allocation-portal-crashes-hours-after-opening/
2 Sept: The Conversation: Victorians who switched energy retailers only save $45 a year – leaving hundreds on the table
by Bruce Mountain, Director, Victoria Energy Policy Centre, Victoria University
Disclosure statement
The Victoria Energy Policy Centre is partly funded by the Government of Victoria. Bruce Mountain is also the proprietor of http://www.beatyourbill.com.au and bills uploaded there are also used by VEPC in its retail market research.
Switching rates in Australia are actually very high, especially so in Victoria.
To test how well the theory matches reality, the Victorian government provided my colleagues and I with 50,000 real electricity bills uploaded by Victorian households to the government’s price comparison website in late 2018. (These households agreed their bills could be used for research purposes and bill uploads were voluntary.)
Our sample is reasonably representative of the population, although we think these customers may be a little more engaged with the energy market than typical Victorians…
Our finding begs an explanation. We suggest it starts with the observation that while electricity is extremely valuable, it’s just a utility. While people get pleasure from buying many things, electricity is certainly not one of them. Quite understandably, most customers want to spend as little time as possible engaging in electricity markets.
Many offers are also eye-wateringly complex…
The creation of a retail electricity market in Victoria 17 years ago sought to bring the “genius” of free enterprise to the sale of electricity to small customers. Taken in the round, the results so far are not entirely encouraging.
http://theconversation.com/victorians-who-switched-energy-retailers-only-save-45-a-year-leaving-hundreds-on-the-table-122786
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AFR’s Aaron Patrick seems to be pro-nuclear, and it is being noted:
2 Sept: AFR: Left support for NSW nuclear power industry
by Aaron Patrick
Left-wing economist John Quiggin has urged the NSW Parliament to legalise nuclear power, making the University of Queensland academic the most prominent environmentalist to support the controversial energy source.
Professor Quiggin told a NSW parliamentary inquiry into uranium mining and nuclear power that the ban should be lifted simultaneously with the introduction of a price charged for emitting Greenhouse gases.
“The Parliament should pass a motion … removing the existing ban on nuclear power,” he said in a written submission. “Nuclear power is not viable in the absence of a carbon price.”…
The biggest impediment to development of the industry is opposition from the Labor and Greens parties, environmental groups and left-wing think tanks such as The Australia Institute…
https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/left-support-for-nsw-nuclear-power-industry-20190830-p52mji
29 Aug: FriendsOfTheEarth: Small modular reactors and the nuclear culture wars
by Dr Jim Green (This article originally appeared in RenewEconomy, 28 August 2019)
Dr Jim Green is national nuclear campaigner with Friends of the Earth Australia
Aaron Patrick, Senior Correspondent with the Australian Financial Review (AFR), is the latest journalist to enter the nuclear culture wars with some propaganda (LINK) that’s indistinguishable from that served up in the Murdoch tabloids.
There’s lots of misinformation in Patrick’s articles. For example he uncritically promotes a dopey Industry Super Australia report, described by RenewEconomy editor Giles Parkinson as “one of the most inept analyses of the energy industry that has been produced in Australia”. (I’ve asked the authors of the Industry Super report if they intend to withdraw or amend it. No response.).
The focus here ‒ and the focus of Patrick’s recent articles ‒ is on small modular reactors (SMRs), which he describes as new, small, safe, cheap and exciting (and he continues to make such claims even as I continue to feed him with evidence suggesting alternative SMR adjectives … non-existent, overhyped, obscenely expensive)…READ ON
https://www.foe.org.au/small_modular_reactors_nuclear_culture_wars
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read all, includes full text of Judith Sloan article:
1 Sept: StopTheseThings: Blackout Bitching: Feds Blame States For Australia’s Renewables Fiasco
Australia’s self-inflicted renewable energy calamity was as perfectly predictable as it was perfectly avoidable.
The circus started in 2001, when Liberal PM, John Howard introduced a modest Renewable Energy Target, which translated at the time to around 5% of electricity generation…
Things escalated in 2009, when the Green/Labor Alliance, led by Kevin Rudd ramped up the RET to mammoth proportions…
The mandated target and the subsidy delivered wind and solar producers under the LRET and SRES – in the form of Renewable Energy Certificates – cost power consumers around $4 billion a year. The total cost of the Federal renewable schemes will top $60 billion…
Victoria, on the other hand, has set its own 50% RET but established its own VRET with underwritten power prices for wind and large-scale solar. Wind and solar generators in Victoria get the best of both worlds, earning RECs from the Federal LRET and getting guaranteed power prices under the VRET…
The Australian’s Economics Editor, Judith Sloan weighs into the bun-fight with this article.
The states are shedding power and their responsibility
The Australian by Judith Sloan – 27 August 2019
READ ALL
https://stopthesethings.com/2019/09/01/blackout-bitching-feds-blame-states-for-australias-renewables-fiasco/
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saw this page recommended for Dorian – there’s a live link in right hand column:
Mike’s Weather Page
https://spaghettimodels.com/
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