Rapidly the word about the astonishing rate of arson and man-made accidents* is spreading, but it doesn’t help “the cause” (which for left-leaning journo’s appears to be getting left-leaning politicians elected).
For example, the awful Binna Burra fire in September was blamed on climate change. Instead it turned out to be caused by two teenagers with cigarette butts. Who looks silly pushing a carbon tax agenda to stop fires?
So The Guardian and the ABC are now compiling stories with conspiracy theories about how a thousand or so tweets with a pedantic error mistaking legal action for arrests somehow demonstrates a mysterious disinformation campaign (it’s pro-ject-ion.) The main mystery here is how a prof in Qld can mind read through twitter — Dr Graham tells us “The motivation underlying this often tends to not be changing people’s opinions about the bushfire itself and how it’s happening, but to sow discord and magnify already existing tensions in polarised political issues.”
Maybe people are just angry at the wanton, pointless and avoidable destruction, yeah?
The Love Media are downplaying the arrests in a situation where catching, charging and convicting people must be near impossible, so 24 arrests already for arson this season is remarkable. What’s more important to the nation, preventing arson, saving wilderness, or proof-reading-type errors on social media?
Firstly: Most of these fires are man-made but it’s arson and accidental* not climate change:
In NSW alone 24 people have been charged, with legal action happening against 180 in total ( that’s just in NSW)
NSW Police take legal action against more than 180 people
6 Jan 2020. NSW Police: Since Friday 8 November 2019, legal action – which ranges from cautions through to criminal charges – has been taken against 183 people – including 40 juveniles – for 205 bushfire-related offences.
- 24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires
- 53 people have had legal actions for allegedly failing to comply with a total fire ban, and
- 47 people have had legal actions for allegedly discarding a lighted cigarette or match on land.
A US study estimates that 85% of fires are man-made (both accidental and deliberate):
Janet Stanley, Associate Professor at Melbourne University’s Sustainable Society Institute, The Conversation.
Experts estimate about 85% of bushfires are caused by humans. A person may accidentally or carelessly start a fire, such as leaving a campfire unattended or using machinery which creates sparks. Or a person could maliciously light a fire.
But official fires are just the tip of the iceberg: the actual number of bushfires in Australia is thought to be about five times that recorded. Virtually none of these unrecorded fires are investigated.
A Western Australian study from 2012 estimates 43% of fires in WA are deliberate arson, 22% of fires are due to lightning, 13% are accidental, 2% are escaped from hazard reduction, and 20% are unknown.
Secondly: the misinformation misinformation campaign
The ABC and The Guardian readers are being taken for a ride:
Fires misinformation being spread through social media
By Kevin Nguyen and Ariel Bogle, ABC news
Australia’s bushfire emergency is being exploited on social media, as misinformation is spread through cyberspace via hundreds of thousands of posts.
- Bushfire discussion on social media is attracting a high number of “bot-like and troll-like accounts”
- Some of the misinformation includes the idea left-wing “ecoterrorists” are behind some fires
- The lies are highly sharable, which means they can spread faster than the truth
They don’t mention that four people from a Brazilian green NGO have been arrested in relation to starting fires in the Amazon. We don’t know if they were guilty, or what the evidence is. They deny it, and we hope they get a fair trial. Regardless, the ABC etc are already trying to brand “the idea” of eco-terrorism as misinformation and a conspiracy. Who’s in denial that there might be a motivation in the means-to-an-ends crowd who are hyped up by propaganda about the end-days of climate change ?
The ABC found some of the suspicious accounts were amplifying unproven suggestions arson had been the overwhelming cause of Australia’s disastrous bushfire season.
Suspicious accounts like those of professors? The only details of this study may be here on Znet that I can find.
The Guardian is almost a mini-ABC:
Bots and trolls spread false arson claims in Australian fires ‘disinformation campaign’
Christopher Knaus, The Guardian, @knausc
Online posts exaggerating the role of arson are being used to undermine the link between bushfires and climate change
Bot and troll accounts are involved in a “disinformation campaign” exaggerating the role of arson in Australia’s bushfire disaster, social media analysis suggests. The bushfires burning across the nation have been accompanied by repeated suggestions of an arson epidemic or “arson emergency”.
With a million tweets on climate change and fires, why is this tiny hashtag so important? Maybe some of these are fakes, but how many fakes are shouting about a #ClimateEmergency? Who knows, and don’t ask. Nothing to see here comrade.
The Queensland University of Technology senior lecturer on social network analysis Dr Timothy Graham examined content published on the #arsonemergency hashtag on Twitter, assessing 1,340 tweets, 1,203 of which were unique, published by 315 accounts.
His preliminary analysis found there is likely a “current disinformation campaign” on Twitter’s #arsonemergency hashtag due to the “suspiciously high number of bot-like and troll-like accounts”.
He similarly found a large number of suspicious accounts posting on the #australiafire and #bushfireaustralia hashtags.
Lord help us. Now he realizes there is hyped up polarisation?
“Australia suddenly appears to be getting swamped by mis/disinformation as a result of this environmental catastrophe, and we are suffering the consequences in terms of hyped up polarisation and an increased difficulty and inability for citizens to discern truth,” Graham told the Guardian.
The Prof finds there’s “likely” a disinformation campaign in a thousand tweets and that means the nation is “swamped”? Tell me again who’s hyping and polarizing the news? The Guardian practically IS a misinformation campaign.
A search on “The Guardian arson” and “abc.net.au arson”, or “theguardian.com arson arrests” turns up almost no other headlines about the large number of Australian arsonists?
Information is our friend. The poor sods reading The Guardian and The ABC will go out loaded with nothing-burger conspiracies and indignant outrage and get squashed in any real forum.
UPDATE: The Daily Mail says arrests in other states are large too :
Color me skeptical, because their headline looks a bit sloppy. I would like links to police news releases or more reliable numbers.
In Queensland, police have arrested 101 people accused of starting bushfires, 69 juveniles and 32 adults.
Five people were arrested for allegedly setting bushland alight in Tasmania – and a further 10 in South Australia.
Meanwhile in Victoria, where locals have experienced some of the most catastrophic conditions the nation has ever seen, 43 people were charged with firebug offences.
H/t to Travis. Thank you. And Dave B and Panda.
* Arson is not the same as an accident — a word that has just been added in two spots to make the point clear. There must be malicious intent. h/t DryLiberal.
REFERENCE:
More information on that study: https://www.zdnet.com/article/twitter-bots-and-trolls-promote-conspiracy-theories-about-australian-bushfires/
the dastardly “Russian bots’! strike again, when will their reign of terror end?
145
The Russians launched a monumental disinfo operation surrounding their annexation of Crimea, theft of the Ukrainian navy, and the separatist war in Donbass. The mass-media, Democrats and insiders may then have adopted it after Nov 2016 as an excuse for why they lost the US election, but there’s no question that the Russians were very active in a major electronic, media and trolling disinformation campaign, from Feb 2014 through until at least Oct 2016. And they haven’t stopped, they just took their foot off the accelerator and got their reps to say, “What? Us? We didn’t do nuffin'”, etc.
Ignoring what the Russians did or pretending they’re ‘innocent’, truthful, harmless or our friends, is not truthful, and nor does it help anything but the spread lies and more of the same insidious activities.
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In case you hadn’t noticed, every non leftist meme, the left blames on Russian bots, just like they blame Russian bots for Trump’s election win.
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Of course I noticed, I even mentioned it. But that is no reason to let the Russians off the hook for what they do, or to cut them slack they don’t deserve. Just because the Lefties take that tangent does not mean the opposite position is valid or true (although that is the narrative the Russians have been actively pushing).
74
We are going to know that the Russians are exercising too much control over the US, when the Congress jumps up and down clapping a visiting Russian like trained seals. The whole Russian thing was an obvious diversion from the deep state.
43
[Off Topic. Unrelated comments will be snipped. Sorry. Interesting but Take it elsewhere. Not #1 ]
60
No one has claimed these arsonists are Eco-Terrorists, and there’s absolutely no proof of tha,
nor is it remotely likely.
That’s Gaslighting, setting up a Strawman, and steering the discussion up a blind alley.
75
Rank assumption. Brazilian firemen arrested for starting Amazon fire. Common theme. Eco-Terrorism. Nothing beyond the neo-Marxist globalist desperados.
Notwithstanding that, it would appear considerably more productive to hold to account those responsible for the policies and implementation of forest and land management practices in Australia. Arrest doesn’t seem unreasonable under the circumstances, particularly for those charged with the safety and security of the community, those that have instigated the destruction of life, livestock and property pursuing vacant ideology against a backdrop of evidence-informed historical experience.
131
According to SKY, the World Wildlife Fund paid the volunteer firefighters to take photos of
the fires, with which to solicit donations.
SKY is Murdoch, so i’m taking it with a pinch of salt, but plenty here would disagree.
https://news.sky.com/story/leonardo-dicaprio-falsely-accused-of-financing-amazon-fires-11874030
51
Do you really know the extent of Rupert’s influence on SKY News? I don’t, so I’m wondering how you can make that association.
41
No…but I do know huge fuel loads cause mega mega fires……
Actually, the American fire fighters didn’t have a word for the size fires we have…maybe Giga-fires?
31
Graeme #4 asks
Rupert Bear?
It’s like this, Graeme:
If you keep a dog, and it bites the Postie, it’s on you.
00
What about also: “down a mineshaft” and up a blind alley.
31
XR – bots?
50
Green extremists caught doing extreme stuff. Who’d have thought?
Extremist profiling not done just in case it upsets the extremists. Placate our nutters with money. Sure to work. What do you mean they want more?
Don’t these [snip] have children? They ALWAYS want more if you give them stuff without requiring respect.
30
Remember why you can’t have a rational argument with the green exo fascist.
They’re “fact”wits
260
You can’t have a rational discussion with greens because they know global warming is BS and the fires a just an opportunity to secure more government funding for their agendas
182
2 fools can’t have a rational discussion.
The issue is that these fires have been deliberately lit, the ABC and Guardian [Australia] appear
prepared to concede Lone Wolf Arsonists, but that’s it, no further.
24 Arsonists acting independently of each other can’t cause this sort of havoc.
I suggest that it’s coordinated, nothing to do with ”Greenies”, and relevant information as
to how these people were apprehended should paint a different picture..
75
I’m not suggesting that it’s coordinated. I wonder how much any arsonist tendencies that are already there are being brought out, triggered, as a side effect of the non-stop apocalyptic news coverage.
It’s become like a reality TV show with the emotional reporting and fixation on individual semi-“celebs” almost. Possibly some want to “join the show” as it were.
Though I assume some of that would still happen even if the reporting were dispassionate, and nor am I suggesting the news-vultures want to trigger anyone. Possibly they would even say that they don’t want to report on arson lest it encourage copy cats. But if it’s such a dominant cause, surely we as a nation need to talk about that…
360
I’m thinking the same. With our refuse media and perpetual screen time too many have fire and arson on the brain.
People at the Golden Globes think absent Rusty is still fighting last November’s blaze because, hey, Australia = fire, right? And that would be the only reason you’d miss a ceremony with the cream of Hollywood’s gerbil racers.
I’ve been in the middle of it here on the midcoast and it hasn’t been fun. Useful sites to locate fire, anticipate wind etc have been a big help, and making sure I keep the rest of the media turned OFF has also been a big help. The trouble is, a lot of people far from the problem are doing all they can to magnify it. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the firebugs are feeling closer to celebrity right now.
190
You forgot to mention Gee up.
32
I was thinking more about the paid upper echelons. GeeUppers spread climate panic by hanging about blogs and doing grass-rooty, true believer things for free or for peanuts. (Mind you, I think they’d be surprised at the Soros money that stops just above the grass roots. Maybe we should call them mushroom mycellum true believers.)
100
We’re living in an age of activism, Anti-Fa, Revolution X etc,… truth to data, the facts of the matte become expendable when ends justify the means. This is the scenario when you’re experiencing a totalitarian take-over… pre WW2 Germany, Mao’s Cultural Revolution, Orwell’s Oceania. ‘Truth is Lies’, ‘War is Peace,’ ‘Two Legs whatever’…what can you believe?’
O Socrates, O Galilio, O Feynma! 🙁
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Correct the record – Galileo ‘n Feynman.
50
And the Spaniards (not collectively). Nobody expects a Spanish Climate Inquisition 🙁
….who had a fanatical devotion to the weather🙂
“12 Spanish Inquisition Monty Python’s Flying Circus”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhn4Uo3WV7c
00
An Arsonist isn’t necessarily a firebug.
We now know that these fires have been caused by Arsonists.
To be repeating the Official Line about Firebugs, and worrying about triggering them is making a lot of assumptions with no evidence.
The Authorities are circling the wagons and have now declared ”Firebugs” to be the problem.
I’m saying let’s ignore that, it’s spin. Let’s ask to see the Evidence.
40
A firebug ( pyromaniac) has a mental illness
Arson is a deliberate criminal act of setting a fire which indicates understanding it’s wrong and doing it anyway.
If the authorities are saying we have “firebug problems”, does that mean they are saying we have a bunch of mentally ill people running around setting fires……?
It’s a long bow to pull….desperate stuff really….
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They will be charged with arson not fire buggery regardless of whether they have a mental illness. It will be for the courts to convict based on their mental state.
70
The Guardian is the ‘house’ paper for the BBC, and where they advertise positions. Indeed the sales to the BBC have been said to keep the paper (almost) afloat.
Given the slavish dependence of the ABC on big brother, perhaps you should reverse “The Guardian is almost a mini-ABC”.
100
I know people who actually give money to the Guardian to keep it afloat. They think it’s a source of unbiased news.
201
Like socialism…always needs other peoples money…
Maggie Thatcher was right…..
122
It doesn’t stop there. Socialism of all types end up with bloodshed and tears after they have “stolen” our money.
80
About shutting down the British Coal Industry, her main claim to fame?
513
About Socialism….it uses other peoples money because its an inherently unstable collapsing 100% failure rate paradigm…
91
Hi hatband –
You are, I presume, aware that Baroness Thatcher’s Conservative government closed fewer coal mines that the previous Labour administration?
And that a large part of the miners’ strike conflict related to not allowing the Scargill-led NUM to compel moderate UDM miners to support the NUM’s attempt to “shut down the British Coal Industry”?
And that Baroness Thatcher’s main claims to fame include privatisation of state-run industries, deregulation of industry and commerce, trade union reform, and (in tandem with her friend President Reagan) bringing about an end to the Cold War.
Apart from that, you are spot on.
161
Oh, and rescuing the Falkland Islanders from the fascist generals from Argentina, an enterprise most of the world said would be impossible,but was achieved through determination by Maggie and incredible bravery and sacrifice by the UK armed forces.
181
Exactly what I was going to reply. Just read “Vulcan 607”. Great insight into the RAF’s contribution to the Falklands war.
90
… and (in tandem with her friend President Reagan) bringing about an end to the Cold War.
They didn’t do this, although they certainly kept up the pressure. But the Russians and wider Soviet-Bloc were falling apart for a long time before they even came to power due to their own internal production failures (especially food) plus decades of chronic demoralization. Plus a hopeless costly war against US-armed Pakistani proxies, which was constantly destroying their best battlefield hardware. Russia was broke malnourished and hungry when the Iron-Curtain finally fell down largely from within. Gorbachev wanted to end the Cold war because Russian was finished and he was too weak to take a hardline domestically, because the State was weak. Plus it happened after Bush (Sn) had already been President for 18 months, and Thatcher was also weakened, on the way out the door, replaced by John Major the same year. Bush and Major presided over the end of the Soviet Union.
I was never as impressed with Reagan as I was with Thatcher. She was more coherent, more incisive and more scary. Thatcher gave Reagan added spine and determination, not the other way around. They were competitors, and Reagan couldn’t allow the public perception that he was being upstaged by a British PM with a ‘boof’ hair-do and handbag.
40
I recall an Afghan fighter could kill a Ruskie tank by sneaking up behind it and shoving rags into the exhaust until it stalled, then the afghanis had a field day…..
One young Russian I met had emigrated to Oz, as all his mates had been killed in Afghanistan…..nothing to go home for. Sad really at age 20 that you have to do that…..
50
Natural Monopolies ought not be Privatised.
Where that’s happened, it’s been a disaster.
How many Coal Mines Labour shut down is irrelevant to the argument
Some people on this site regularly call for more CFPSs to be built, yet they laud
Thatcher, who caused no more CFPSs to be built in the U.K., and was an early champion
of Global Warming.
41
Quadrant has a good article about our politicians: https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2020/01/good-for-you-craig-kelly/. I know who I would not vote for if they were in my electorate.
100
Fires can only start with suitable ignition. Either it gets lit deliberately or started by another fire by embers or other transfer mechanism. Excluding lightning, not much in the present case. High temps, over 40 cant ignite bush on its own.
Something smells.
131
They call this an “environmental disaster. It’s actually a Law Enforcement disaster
70
The Australian reports afresh today:
Bushfires: Firebugs fuelling crisis as national arson arrest toll hits 183
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/bushfires-firebugs-fuelling-crisis-asarson-arresttollhits183/news-story/52536dc9ca9bb87b7c76d36ed1acf53f
This follows an earlier Oz report and a variant in the SMH on 6 January:
Legal action taken against 183 people this bushfire season
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw-fires-legal-action-taken-against-183-people-this-bushfire-season-20200106-p53p97.html
Has anyone heard any commentary on the ABC or SBS etcetera?
61
Ive sent the link to at least one relative ( who knows many people ) showing one newspaper denying arsonists have been active, and the other link showing 200 people had been charged with arson….it illustrates perfectly what appears to be the blatant propaganda campaign by the left wing gutter media to try the truth of both arson and fuel build up being the main problem, from getting out into the public….
80
Heres a novel idea – proper firebreaks and nothing to burn…..
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the-billionaire-whose-plan-helped-save-a-town-from-bushfire-20200108-p53pvo.html
“When the Currowan fire hit the biggest equestrian centre on the NSW South Coast before Christmas, evacuation was out of the question for its owner Terry Snow.
“Willinga Park, surrounded by Meroo and Murramarang national parks, spans 2000 acres with Olympic-sized equestrian arenas as well as native gardens with over 11,000 trees. Mr Snow, who is the
chairman of Capital Airport Group and has a holiday home in Bawley Point, had long been planning for a fire event like this.
“”We couldn’t evacuate. It couldn’t be done – we’ve got 650 cattle, 120 horses and 30 staff,” he said. “We weren’t naive, we’d been expecting and preparing for years and always engaged a fire consultant. We followed his advice to the letter and were so grateful that we did.”
“The Canberra-born billionaire saved the property. But the 77-year-old’s intricate fire plan has also been credited as part of the reason the nearby coastal town of Bawley Point escaped annihilation in the firestorm that swept through the region last month.
…….
“”We had a big loader to run along the ground and remove debris [along fire trails],” he said.
“Mr Snow’s team was also able to use two large water trucks with a combined capacity of 2300 litres.
“”We had 10-15 employees on rotation to ensure the fire line was always covered,” he said.
50
The real story, and the real ABC fear:
‘Bushfire discussion on social media’ is out of our control.
200
And here is a major example : William Florance from East Gippsland showing what happens when there is a crown fire in bush and how a decent fuel reduction burn stops them. Photos, video, text & voice over : all on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/william.florance?fref=search&__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARBvyRZD0pxf3CbWh7bpYoL86-fPJS0nJe54dkl3ztLWC_2_TEyq_mo6VEXduJnV9zGZIbFxkDTYstxy
The people of the fire ravaged areas are speaking up. And do not give a tinker’s fart for the ABC & the Guardian’s attempts to keep is all brainwashed.
110
Page not found. Maybe Farcebook didn’t like what William had to say and show.
20
I could source the page from Canada. Try using VPN if you have it.There is good information there.
30
The MSM have learnt to monitor this blog…but they are always playing catch up…..always second place…..
But wait…..lets also put a strain on stretched police …how considerate….putting the community in danger through selfishness.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-08/bushfire-protests-planned-melbourne-a-resource-drain-say-police/11851626
“The organisers of an anti-Scott Morrison protest planned for Melbourne on Friday say the event will go ahead, despite police asking them to reconsider the “resource drain” on a day when fire activity is expected to flare across Victoria.
“The event, organised by Uni Students for Climate Justice, is one of several planned across the country on Friday and is expected to shut down parts of the CBD from 6:00pm.
“But Acting Assistant Commissioner Tim Hansen urged “fair-minded Victorians” to reconsider attending the climate demonstration, which about 12,000 people have said they would attend on Facebook.
“He said police were still actively engaged in supporting their emergency services colleagues in bushfire zones, working in fire-ravaged communities and facilitating evacuations while dealing with day-to-day policing.
“”We will meet those obligations, but this is a distraction for us,” he said.
“”We see frontline police returning from the fire ground, returning from the fire zone that are fatigued, that do need a break, and this is now another operation we need to resource.”
130
Or the police could just let the working public deal with it. 😉
110
Like the X R protestor up on the tube train in Londinium?
70
I’m sure something could be arranged. 😉
Get a septic tank cleaning truck, and put it in pump-out mode.
40
A comment (#66) about fire, fire season, and the starting of fires.
Hope y’all will check it out on the “Weekend Unthreaded”.
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/01/weekend-unthreaded-292/#comment-2251824
70
Welcome to the new denier conspiracy theory.
Without any proof, they are trying to start a conspiracy that eco-terrorists are committing arson in order to further the alarmist AGW agenda.
No proof of this at all. But Nova and her ilk put it forward as if it has as much science behind it as the obvious and scientifically evidenced certainty that climate change drought and global warming have exacerbated fires in all countries where we are seeing them.
Deniers are reaching peak absurdity.
You people are being taken for a ride.
Please send money and chocolate.
431
The only ones starting conspiracies are the ABC and The Guardian.
I’m merely pointing out actual arrests and obvious motivations.
Hutton appears with namecalling, full assertions, and no evidence.
So J Hutton, show you are not just a namecaller in a science debate. Which observation, which data do we deny? If you can’t find any we’ll expect an apology for namecalling before you can post again. These threads are far too polluted with kindergarden unscientific namcalling.
271
The RFS leaders have already refuted this arson meme, but what would they know?.
321
Anonymous commenter says unnamed RFS leader asserts something vague.
Yes well I”m convinced.
220
Given the number of new galahs that have landed on the fence just recently to dispense their “wisdom”, clearly this blog has bitten the climitariat hard in the rear end, and they are panicking…..
Truth scares them…..power is maintained via deception.
170
I see why you’re stuck here.
Turn on the news…
Biologist’s evidence against agw fails, so
starts own blog swamp.
Wonders why she’s ignored by scientists.
321
Kool aid on tap eh?
Stick around Warpath we all know why skeptics are ignored by scientists.
150
You’re ignored because:
The whole world is against you in a globally orchestrated campaign.
OR,
Like a flat earthier, your evidence fails scrutiny ?
Occum’s chainsaw
313
Warpath – wrong on both accounts….
Sceptics are ignored because most scientists of them are too gutless or too scared to speak up.
The thing is, the Left hates truth.
There is no truth in the Left.
They are a moral vacuum.
Why would the truth of the fires being caused by artificial limitation of hazard reduction burning be allowed by the Left to be kept in the public eye, when the Big Lie of Goebbels proportions of fires being attributed to climate change is what they want to put out there? The Big Lie is what they live, because the live of truth is not in them.
Evil hates the light of truth, because it loves darkness. Bad stuff happens in the dark….
121
Poor warpath.
It is noted that you totally refuse, (incapable), to produce any evidence of even the most basic conjecture behind your whacked-out AGW religion
So sad to see someone so pathetically brain-washed.
110
Waiting for your evidence that human caused climate change EVEN EXISTS.
Come on.. show us your science.
Start with empirical evidence of warming by increased atmospheric CO2.
Bring something, otherwise you are just another AGW brain-washed mindless twerp.
140
Name calling? A quick read through the posts and comments here shows a site that is not much more that a haven for name-calling and abuse.
Evidence? You claim an astonishing rate of arson – where is your evidence the rate of arson is unusual or in any way linked to the scale of the fires? The “sceptic” crowd are the ones trying to assert without proof that the fires are unprecedented because of back-burning failures and the rate of arson.
Make hay. The sun is setting.
312
Evidence of AGW?
PRODUCE IT !!!
… or continue to make a MOCKERY of your AGW claims.
[snip]
40
A bit above your intellectual station John. As I have often said there are 3 categories for believers in man-made climate change: the malicious, the mischievous and the brain-dead ignorant. Which box are you in. I’ll assume that you’re the useful idiot.
31
DATA, JH.
Lots of arsonists..
Why DENY data ?
Are you a brain-washed leftist to whom actual data is incompatible ? [Careful, Andy.] AZ
130
AZ,
There is no doubt that real data has no affect on the brain-washing of these leftist AGW shills.
Why should I be “careful” about stating facts. ?
[You need not be careful at all when you state facts. You do need to remember that calling someone brainwashed is a personal attack and violates Jo’s rues for commenting. You need to notice that others are commenting about you and it does not reflect well on you. What you say is much more powerful if you leave off the insult.] AZ
40
“shills” is not data, or a fact. Insults are just insults. If lucky, an insult is all that can be harvested in return.
10
AGW is all about NOT-DATA. !
As these climate apostles keep showing us.
Shill : One who publicly promotes another’s cause, especially in an extravagant or misleading way
00
The long explanation of a shill is better than a slogan.
00
Way too many slogans/one-liners in the world already. Better explanations are better.
00
For example, the word ‘world’ means space travel to an astronomer and gravity etc to a physicist, money to the economist and so on.
00
World is associated to Plants/animals/viruses/etc to the biologist…”One who publicly promotes another’s cause, especially in an extravagant or misleading way” is good. Understood!
00
I have trouble following my own advice. 🙂
00
Personal experience.
00
Don’y worry about us John, try keeping you’re feral Greens down to a dull scream so more people don’t die.
131
What are you talking about?
No serious person is suggesting that ”Feral Greens” have had anything to do with the bushfires,
let alone caused any deaths.
You appear to be reinforcing John Hutton’s comment.
19
No, not Feral Greens. Unlike other feral animals in the bush like pigs and cats, Feral Greens do surprisingly little damage, provided of cause you always stand downwind.
It is the Common or Latte Green that is the most destructive. These are the people who have forced policy and allowed devastating fuel build up, and yes, EVERYONE sans Getup! and the ABC is suggesting this.
Greens, young Hatband, cause bushfires.
101
Yes the Feral Greens support the native wildlife, which is good. However Latté Greens are also capable of the same good behaviour in an instagram emergency, it’s just not normal for them.
Here is a recent photo of a green supporting wildlife at a rehab centre.
https://i.imgur.com/kmw4urC.jpg
It can be difficult to determine the subspecies of Green by appearance alone, although pink hair suggests a Latté Green. The Feral Greens are the all-natural types and tend to keep their natural hair colouring, preferring to modify their plumage through either dreadlocks or shaving it off completely rather than colouring.
We should salute our Feral and Latté Greens for rising to the occasion in our cuddly critters’ time of need.
Except that saluting will be interpreted as imperialistic. 😀
20
Ferals can’t even spell, right?
03
AGW cultist vassals, can’t even produce any evidence. !
Evasion tactic, yet again from JH. !
10
Climate is always changing.
The climate change religion merely posits CAGW as a fact then attributes any unusual weather event to it after the fact “post hoc ergo propter hoc” [“after this, therefore because of this.”]
ie “Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X.” That is, in the instant case: “Since event Y [bushfires] followed event X [‘climate change’], event Y must have been caused by event X.”
That is not science.
150
It is amusing how dry, hot, and windy is climate change or global warming while cold, wet, or snowy is just weather.
It is also funny how unusual becomes “unprecedented” in spite of evidence to the contrary.
140
‘ … a conspiracy that eco-terrorists are committing arson in order to further the alarmist AGW agenda.’
That is incorrect, nobody in their right mind takes that idea seriously, but clearly juvenile fire bugs need closer scrutiny by the media. Singlehandedly they have produced more CO2 emissions than all our coal fired power stations, there should be a law against it.
100
“Without any proof, they are trying to start a conspiracy that eco-terrorists are committing arson in order to further the alarmist AGW agenda.”
I think you are projecting. The article was very careful to avoid the insinuation that you have just made here. Maybe you are privy to some information that lead you to jump to this conclusion. (but then that is pure speculation on my part).
120
John.
Why do you class myself or anyone on this site as a denier.
John, I am not a denier.
as an example below I will respond, re your comment above.
John, I cannot deny, that what you have posted above is ignorance in science, influenced by ideology.
As you can see I am not a denier.
70
That’s going to have them rolling in the aisles Willy. Smarter than climate scientists and funny. The talent abounds here.
08
“The talent abounds here.”
Pity you can never be art of that talent.
Destined to be forever an empty science-free vassal.
10
John, thanks for reminding me to send “money and chocolate.” Sometimes I forget.
60
Hi John,
Long time no see.
I heard you were out.
Why do you continue to protest something you believe in…
… and please stop calling me at work.
70
It’s not like it hasn’t happened before …
World Wildlife Federation Paid $70,000 to Activists who Set Fire to Amazon Forest
“They started a blaze then took pictures which they sold to the World Wildlife Federation for large sums of cash.”
https://granitegrok.com/blog/2019/11/world-wildlife-federation-paid-70000-to-activists-who-set-fire-to-amazon-forest
50
John,
I think you meant “elk”.
20
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
[Snip] [Yonnie effectively said there is an ugly situation here where a lot of good people may have lost a lot, and may feel that the current system has failed them… — Jo].
[Yonnie, strongly negative phrasing here is prone to being misinterpreted even though you are talking about a situation you don’t want to happen. – jo]
81
”This sort of behaviour” hasn’t happened, won’t happen, and the only person suggesting it is you.
The Issue is now Arson of the forest.
The Media have admitted this, so forget about their rationalisations, and ask why they’ve been
covering it up since at least as far back as November 2019.
42
I suggest you look at the history of your politics and see what happened when good people were pushed too far, this is not a dissimilar situation.
Media as you know has been controlled by the left in this country for years, cover ups are nothing surprising.
82
The history of Australia is that we obey the law, accept the umpires decision,
and help the next bloke if he’s in trouble.
You are trying to deflect the issue by Gaslighting Australians, which is pretty low.
16
Your a Warmist troll how low can you get?
You wouldn’t know Australia if it bit you on the a$% comrade.
82
Your American spelling of the highlighted word appears to indicate that you’re not
real familiar with the Australian vernacular at all, cobber.
11
How far it will go is anyone’s guess but if we learn anything from history the civil violence will end with at least some bloodshed and tears.
41
What are you talking about?
We’ve never had Civil Violence.
The only people suggesting it are trying to deflect from the issue of Arsonists in the forests.
By Gaslighting the victims.
35
I was referring to the history of other nations.
21
During WW2 , some communists on the Melbourne docks refused to load resupply ships.
In the ensuing escalation with the police, revolvers were drawn by the communists and discharged, but the police killed them all in return fire.
It seems the Left just loves violence, but the brave police mopped up the troublemakers in a legal stoush, and order restored.
One thing the hard Left just can’t get through their very thick skulls is that good people will always stand against such thugs and prevail. Every time.
The hard Left appear to be infected with something similar to Toxoplasma gondii……
100
Never heard that one.
Colebatch didn’t mention it in his book, and Tom Hills never mentioned it in his
recollections of 50 years on the Melbourne Wharves.
Could you provide a link to the incident?
32
Actually we used to have quite a bit of civil strife.
The miners’ strike of 1949 when Labor PM Ben Chifley sent in the army to work the mines to get the trains and power stations working again. Communist-inspired.
Then there is the biggy — the Rothbury Riot 1929 near Branxton, Hunter Valley.
• 5,000 miners marched to the mine led by a pipe band, protesting a 10 month lockout when mine owners sought to cut wages.
• The miners were coaxed and pressured into being there by the union.
• Police from other areas were brought in to take on miners because local police were suspected of being in sympathy with the miners.
• 1 (a by-stander) shot dead by police, 3 critically wounded and 45 injured, some shot in the legs and back, mainly from ricochets (allegedly).
• Bullets passed through nearby homes.
• Police families were hastily evacuated from nearby towns because things were getting very nasty with retaliatory threats against the police.
• 7,000 at the funeral.
• An editorial of Tuesday December 17, 1929 describes the riot as being organised by a ‘party of extremist[s] who call themselves Communists’.
61
This is a good sample from colebatch via Miranda Devine….
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/miranda-devine/unions-exposed-as-war-saboteurs/news-story/4687d3974404971de3d3e5626769fdc7
Still looking for the other reference….
71
Thanks for putting that up Steve, it’s time Australians were allowed to know about the World War two union behaviour; disgusting.
Wars between countries and within countries are always ugly and hiding relevant information about ugly behaviour simply increases the potential to Manipulate otherwise reasonable people.
At the moment in Australia the media has become the new Ugly because it filters and interprets the news to guide us, for our own good of course.
With two major world wars and many serious conflicts it could be said that last century was the century of war and humanity paid a terrible price.
Currently we don’t seem to be heading anywhere different in too many parts of the world but there is hope as shown recently by Britain and the United States.
Leadership is the key: and that’s a whole nother problem. In recent years I’ve been made aware that politics in Australia is heavily focused on getting elected and then reaping the rewards as quickly as possible. The voters can go to hell or, as currently, to the fires.
The Media?
KK
61
The Sydney wharves were the same as Melbourne. General Macarthur used to tear his hair out at the attitude of Australian wharfies during the war.
Likewise the Garden Island Dockyard where my father worked in the latter war years was riven with demarcation disputes between trades, orchestrated by the Communist union bosses that ran the dockyard workforce.
71
Rothbury, eh?
Here, i’ll raise you South Johnstone in 1927, where a sniper shot dead a striker in FNQ.
In the ensuing escalation with the police, revolvers were drawn by the communists and discharged, but the police killed them all in return fire.
How about Premier T.J. Ryan sending police armed with carbines toaTownsville Wharf Strike in 1918>
Result: 4 strikers shot dead.
But, we’re not talking about that.
Original Steve said, at 8.55p.m.:
Still waiting for the tiniest bit of evidence that that happened.
12
he’s confusing events
21
Where’s the ”Civil Strife’ there?
The Cops fired at a Mass Meeting of Locked Out Coal Miners in 1931.
Q. Why were they ”Locked Out”?
A: Because the Mine Owners paid the Union to get the men out on Strike in order to
close the Mine and avoid paying redundancies.
Classic case of Capitalist/Union collusion/corruption, it’s still happening today.
Sure, it was Capital attacking Labour, but it was a One Off, and
that was the end of it.
23
Concern Trolling, plus Gaslighting, eh?
Paid per comment by any chance, comrade?
36
The ABC is a state run organisation, just like the source for this news item on arsonists.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-01/07/c_138684643.htm
Two state run organisations, equally lacking credibility, but good for comparative testing on propaganda techniques.
40
Given Police investigations into the cause and origins of the fires are ongoing, and police are appealing to the community for any information, however trivial. Are these stories suggesting bushfire arson is a disinformation campaign, obstruction of justice?
If people believe the suggestions that “climate change” causes fires, not arson, why send intel to police?
180
Good point. The ABC won’t be helping the police gather information.
160
That’s their job is it? And you? You’re helping to catch arsonists in between Internet begging, right?
38
ABC’s job is to put forward UNBIASED, FACTUAL news.
A thing at which they are a TOTAL FAILURE.
You seem to have absolutely nothing to offer towards rational scientific discussion.
So what is your purpose here?
60
All voluntary Johnny. Anyway, here we’ll be on the right side of history(for what its worth) and your grand delusion will leave you grovelling in the dirt. Get back to us with ANY proof that a cyclic uptick in temperatures causes hotter fires. You won’t, because you can’t. Maybe Garnaut or Flannery can help. Ha!
50
G’day Pandas,
It’s my understanding that task force Indarra was launched when it was decided that the two fires started NE of Albury were deemed to be suspicious, and rather quickly.
I think it would be useful to produce a table of all the fires showing, for whole of NSW since October 1:
time stamp of first report, location, name(s) of NP(s) affected, wind speed and direction at the time of ignition and forecast, distance from roads and houses, nature of ignition, police assessment and age(s) of people involved.
And another one for each person involved – this one probably should be kept internal to the Police:
age (again), schoolteacher(s) political membership, address, group members, car ownership/access, mobile phone etc messages in lead up.
I think the results would be interesting.
Cheers,
Dave B
20
Could some fires that arsonists Stoke,
Be deliberately lit to provoke,
A panic reaction,
That climate inaction,
Caused the very same fires they poke?
180
“…failing to comply with a total fire ban…” and “…allegedly discarding a lighted cigarette or match on land…” are not arson. Arson must be wiful and malicious.
112
From a quick look, the standard in NSW seems to be recklessness, ie. actual foreseen risk; which is a bit less onerous than ‘wiful and malicious’.
90
DryLiberal. Good point. The Australian Insitute of Criminology says:
https://aic.gov.au/publications/bfab/bfab001
I shall make that clear in the post. It did strike me as odd…
120
that link to the institute of criminology is a bit old if its face published date stands (Published: 9/11/2004)
I was looking at: “CB v Director of Public Prosecutions (NSW)[1] has brought the mental element for ‘arson-type’ offences into sharp focus. These are offences involving damage to, or destruction of, various types of property or injury to, or the death of, persons from intentional or reckless acts of fire-setting. “:
Anderson, John L — “Playing with Fire’: Contemporary Fault Issues in the Enigmatic Crime of Arson” [2016] UNSWLawJl 34; (2016) 39(3) UNSW Law Journal 950
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UNSWLJ/2016/34.html
[which is still a bit old]
70
The Crime of Arson in New South Wales
18/11/2019 by Sonia Hickey (Sydney Criminal Lawyers)
https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/the-crime-of-arson-in-new-south-wales/
40
In NSW tough new penalties will apply for motorists and passengers who toss lit cigarettes out of a vehicle window. From 17 January 2020, motorists caught tossing a lit cigarette will be penalised five demerit points. This is the first time a demerit point penalty has been imposed on this type of offence.
30
That should be “wilful”!
50
The numbers of people charged are high for all states for 2019. Hundreds.
Think for a second how many fires are started by people who are not caught?
Are we talking thousands of firebugs?
As for punishment, I think it is not going to work. What is needed is publicity, recognition and shaming. The media can help here as a public service, pointing out the loss of life, property, animals, bush. Putting people in jail and fining them is not going to stop it. Social pressure might help. Disgrace. Humiliation.
And make the public aware of the scale of the problem, so that firstly they are on the lookout for these people and help stop them. Secondly so that instead of blaming ‘climate change’ for everything, we work to make sure the damage from fires is minimized.
Bushfires are not avoidable, ultimately. But there should be no loss of life and if possible, no homes destroyed. That will take a real change of attitude from the inner city bush tourists. And an understanding that backburning is not only a nett benefit, it saves lives and property and animals.
You cannot stop bushfires happening. But you can deal with the problem so much better without Green ignorance and interference. The same with coal power supplies. Everyone has to pay for these awful useless windmills.
Where is the free wind power we were promised? Or is that just more Green idiocy?
90
Instead of the media blaming Climate Change, what about reality? It is likely someone lit every single fire. Surely that is the problem.
And who knows what the penalties are? And if no one knows, what is the point of them?
There is no deterrence at all.
I read that one firebug has 14 years jail for killing ten people in a fire he lit. Who knows that?
70
You’re jumping the gun here.
Firebug is a jokey term for Pyromaniac.
There is absolutely no evidence that these fires have been caused by Pyromaniacs.
Criminals light fires for all sorts of reasons, from Fraud to Murder.
So, the question here is, have these fires been caused by the Insane, or a criminal element
paid by persons unknown, for reasons unknown, or something much darker?
26
and how many are just slack accidents…
80
In normal times, perhaps most can be put down to slackness?
However, no one is leaving campfires burning at the moment, or tossing lit cigarettes in the dry grass.
35
Given the clear panic indicated by the ferocity of the spin being applied to the arsonists and fuel load memes now out in the wild, it’s clear that these memes are correct or the MSM wouldn’t be trying to lie it’s way out of so hysterically….
We are winning.
120
Th Australian has just reported the death of Matt Kavanaugh who was going around, putting out unattended campfires. He managed to put 7 of them out before he was killed in a car accident. Like you, I find it unbelievable that some folks were still lighting camp fires in the bush.
90
He was a well-respected and liked member of the local FFMV. Our daughter is very upset about his death.
00
A work colleague was caught in Ulladulla last weekend.
I know he is a levelheaded person, cool in a crisis. His recount of conversations with locals was that locals were spitting blood over lack of proper fuel reduction burning.
Add to that that many locals had damn near lost their families, means there is a directed and controlled seething anger against those who let this happen , that even Gogh in his “maintain the rage” days would have been in awe of.
This won’t go away……
90
I wouldn’t bank on that hatband. Our daughter has been on the summer crews with FFMV and during the last season, one really worrying fire was certainly a deserted but unextinguished camp fire in the middle of a local forest. The crews also came across campers with fires on total fire ban days and had to black out those fires.
I also read a comment somewhere (can’t remember now) of someone seeing no fewer than three different drivers flicking hot cigarette ash out of car windows.
70
Fire caused by a deserted but still lit camp fire.
50
Two things, hatband.
Firstly could you clarify your opinion about the fire causes.
hatband, January 8, 2020 at 5:26 pm :
hatband, January 8, 2020 at 7:52 pm :
Your use of “admitted’ suggests you believe the new media reports about arson.
Fires that occur out in the middle of nowhere are obviously not about claiming insurance, and there’s been way too many of these things for them all to be coverups of dumped bodies, especially when you consider that the fire draws attention to the area unnecessarily. These non-pyromania reasons are very unlikely reasons for the MegaFire(s). I take the point that the words “firebug” and “arsonist” carry different meanings of intention, but I don’t think the rest of us (nor the mainstream media) have thought it worth making a distinction between “someone who deliberately lit a fire for fun” and “a deranged person who lit a fire for fun on more than one occasion”. It seems like a distinction without a difference in the case we’re talking about.
Can you clarify that your opinion about the perpetrators did not change between 5:26 and 7:52 because you believe “firebug” and “arsonist” have different meanings?
Secondly, while you are speculating about “darker” motives, you may want to consider this old article from 2008 which has an expert quoted in the 2nd-last paragraph saying something very interesting. https://is.gd/5W4Fy7
(I could not past the actual link because it contains a word that almost certainly sets off the trolling filter around here.)
I just thought that last quote by Dr Dolnik was very interesting, even if it is very outdated and we’ve never heard any reports of that type of activity ever actually happening here in the 11 years since. It appears to be purely hypothetical… so far.
~
All this discussion of possible perpetrators is ultimately a big distraction from the obvious solutions that the experts have been telling us at Royal Commissions for the last 30 years: more cattle grazing and more prescribed burns. These are solutions which pay off no matter what the source of ignition in any given case turns out to be. Performing these only in buffer zones around high value biodiversity assets while leaving large park areas untouched is a compromise which won’t inhibit MegaFires in the parks but would still be better than the current management situation.
91
🙂
21
”Possible perpetrators?”
The Cops have arrested hundreds of people for lighting fires
So we know the cause.
We have yet to find out the reasons why they are lighting fires.
Since no details are being released, the opinions of Criminologists and other experts
don’t carry much weight..
22
Yeah I stuffed that up, used the wrong word. I wasn’t doubting the contribution of arson to the season’s blazes as it has been too widely reported even by rags that it doesn’t suit such as the SMH. The meaning I intended at the time was “causes”, as I was highlighting how one solution works no matter what the cause is, and there can be many causes.
20
Firstly, it seems to be an exclusively male problem and mainly young men 18-25.
It is a common enough thing for young people, even young children to be fascinated by fire and likely oblivious to the consequences. This might only be one in 10,000 young men but that leaves perhaps 1,000 young men in Victoria alone.
Arguing medical explanations like pyromania is a bit extreme but it is a common enough fascination, especially in the young. Getting a thrill from lighting fires may encourage more. Dismissing this as medical pyromania is inappropriate. It is likely preventable behaviour, not obsession.
My point is that driving over the limit makes a driver lethal and is common enough but likely not an alcoholic.
For the next most common group as reported, men in their sixties, it might be an insurance job, vengeance, anger or frustration.
In the great fire of San Francisco earthquake in 1906, most of the fires were lit by people wanting to claim on the insurance. A nearby fire could be enough excuse for an insured house or farm to burn down and an easy way out of debt. The fact that it might burn down every house in the area might be seen as unfortunate but collateral damage.
So the questions are two. Firstly how to dissuade young men from lighting fires and quite a separate question of how to make sure any fire does minimal damage. As for older men lighting fires for insurance, they just need to know the criminal penalties, like any crime.
51
As for the idea of campfires left burning, that would be the natural excuse for anyone who has lit a fire. It is not my belief or experience that anyone leaves a campfire burning, ever.
If this was a serious belief rather than an obvious excuse, that is a matter for education.
51
Unfortunately, TdeF, we do know of such a thing and not only in our daughter’s experience while working with FFMV.
Many years ago, 1984, we went on a trip up to Alice Springs and Ayers Rock. On the way to the rock we camped overnight by the road and made a small cooking fire for our family of six. A converted bus with two people pulled up by us, unloaded a small bike and went off into the bush, came back dragging a large branch of wood which they proceeded to light, surrounded by a lot of spinifex. The next morning it was still alight and they drove off again, leaving it as it was. We had been ready to depart ourselves, having made sure our little fire was thoroughly out. Our departure was delayed while we worked to make sure their unecessarily large and dangerous fire was properly extinguished.
I mentioned elsewhere the camp fire left in the forest not far from here last season that was the cause of another worrying fire.
40
That’s all very odd behaviour, especially as long ago. I am suspicious that these visitors were not Australians, perhaps visiting adventurers on a budget. Perhaps these are the same people who drive on the wrong side of the road each year on the Great Ocean road with tragic consequences.
Australians are taught to swim, drive on the left and to put out fires. I cannot imagine any country people driving away from a log left burning. In fact even the log seems an extreme way to start a camp fire.
10
No, they were Australians alright. We, as not long resident Poms in Australia at that time, were utterly astonished by their appallingly ignorant and selfish behaviour. Their bus was a bright yellow converted old school bus, with a South Australian registration number.
10
Well, all six of us witnessed the huge log that was gathered and lit by thst couple that we had to make safe. I think they were from Adelaide and should have known better.
10
Tell me that some have a MOTIVE hatband. There are some nasty characters of an anarchist/left leaning who would participate in such an act. antifa? trotskyists?. possibly. Can’t be ruled out hatband.
30
I just want to make a distinction between “back burning” and “fuel reduction burning”. I hear a lot of people talking about back burning, when I think they mean fuel reduction burning.
My understanding is that a fuel reduction burn is done during the low risk wet season. The fire is set on the upwind side of the tract of bush and it burns quickly through the understorey of the forest. Because it passes through quickly it does little damage to the larger trees but consumes the fine fuels and there is a fast regeneration and “green up” of the bush that reduces the ability of the bush to carry a fire.
Back burning is a fire fighting technique. (You don’t want to be back burning unless you are trying to stop the spread of an existing wildfire.) A back burn is set on the downwind side of a tract of bush from a defendable firebreak and burns back towards the existing fire. (A large fire will create its own draft and will cause the deliberately lit fire to draw towards the main fire front). The back burn is a slow burn and is a hotter burn than a fire reduction burn. It is intended to scorch the earth ahead of a fire so that there is no fuel to carry the fire front. You have to have a lot of conditions in your favour for a successful back burn – a good firebreak, a light wind, good fuel, access and a good escape if things go wrong.
130
Grant, Here is a former ( organic ) farmer’s perspective from hands on experience:
1: A fuel reduction burn is always started at a pretty good existing break in the vegetation like a road or wide track.
2: Preferably with the wind blowing towards the road or track so it burns slowly up wind away from the start point at the road.
3: Often these burns are started around noon to 2.00 pm..As sunset approaches the temperature drops and the humidity increases, cooling the burn.Ideally it goes out shortly after sunset because of this process…
4: It should always been done with notice ( and preferably the help ) of neighbours
Of course knowing what weather is expected is crucial. If a major wind change is forecast, all bets are off and the burn should not be attempted.
70
Bill
If you can light all four sides of the burn area you can use the “chimney effect” to pull the fire inwards and get better control.
40
Land management is a better term and includes burning but also includes non-burning methods, such as bulldozing, poisoning and other clearing techniques.
30
Does anyone feel like checking the original sources so we can compile a full number of actual arrests as well as “warnings” or legal action of lesser sort.?
180
Again, these are ONLY the people who have been caught. Why isn’t this the headline?
100
It’s not headlines because the MSM no longer are interested in the truth and reality. They prefer exaggerated and fictional claims like man-made climate change.
50
Chris Smith has just said over three quarters of the fires now burning are deliberately lit .
70
Wow.
So if an establishment mouthpiece like Chris Smith is saying that, what’s the real story that’s
being hidden?
42
Lack of hazard reduction burning!!!!!!
71
That’s not going to stop the big fires. Reduction burning is only possible in small localised areas.
23
What about hazard reduction burning enough of those areas to make a real difference?
20
What real difference? There is simply no way we can conduct hazard reduction over an area of 100+ million hectares of bushland. Even allowing for say 20 million hectares of bush fire prone area only a tiny fraction of that can ever be managed in any given year. All we can do is do say 100,000 hectares per year near population centres to try and minimise the risk to property. Lives are more important so evacuations will be done where necessary.
00
Shocking number of arson charges in bushfire-ravaged regions indicate sinister start of blazes: News.com.au
https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/shocking-number-of-arson-charges-in-bushfireravaged-regions-indicate-sinister-start-of-blazes/news-story/be73567276fcbb39b8e7f58bf79268cb
50
The figure for Queensland is plausible given this older article quoted a similar figure.
The same story was published by the Age and the Silly.
It is difficult to confirm this number from a Qld police source as their web “Fire and Arson” news archive doesn’t have much in the way of bushfires over November/December period, not that I can see anyhow. Several house arsons, and some unsolved suspicious surburban grass fires, but nothing in the realm of major bushfires. I could find nothing after a bushland fire at Ormeau on 7 September. Rather bare pickings here, not sure where else to dig. The Australian Associated Press is the only source so far.
40
Fact Checking? On this blog? Made my day.
For example both the Victorian police have refuted the claims for their state, as has he NSW RFS.
012
and, for example, the Volunteer Firefighters Association (NSW) has rejected your claim that ‘climate change’, not unmanaged fuel loads, is the issue.
90
The unaffiliated group that sends most of its money supporting shooters and fishers candidates, refuses to list how many members they have, the one that is overtly political – yeah I trust everything they say
09
You seem heavily into conspiracy memes, rather than FACTS.
Has always been your way.
ABC are known leftist mis-information specialists.
Anyone with even the slightest common sense would take the word of their OWN EYES and the people actually on the fire front, over a bunch of agenda oriented leftist AGW shills.
You STILL have absolutely no evidence of any CO2 warming causation for these fires,
where it it now a totally obvious FACT that dry fuel loads, due to natural drought conditions, and natural windy weather and temperatures are the main causes of the intensity of these fires.
61
And what intensifies the drought, raises the temps – you may have missed the news that 2019 was a hot year.
In fact where is your proof that this is natural?
13
Poor empty little fella,
You obviously have never studied WEATHER patterns have you, just mantra.
No evidence that human CO2 is in the least bit responsible.
Drought in Australia is CLIMATE NORMAL.
Have you missed the news that Australian summers have been HOTTER in the past.
Maintain your ZERO EVIDENCE stance on CO2.. It is all you are capable of.
10
You should perhaps do some study of the effects on El Ninos and the Indian dipole on Australian climate.
2019 was 4th warmest over Australia,
Its the lack of rainfall due to weather patterns, and the build-up of dry forest fuel that has been the real problem.
But you know that, don’t you.
You are just desperately trying to rationalise your way the part that the anti-CO2, anti-environmental “lock-up and neglect” agenda has played in these devastating bush-fires
You have to do that or feel the shame.
You are only fooling yourself, as usual.
00
No, I want categorical proof that this is completely normal – no assertions, no distractions about CO2, no name calling.
5 References to source material should do it.
21
LOL, No evidence of CO2 warming, hey.
Just your usual mindless attempts at trolling and EVASION.
Get over it
YOU are the one that has to show that DROUGHT in Australia is NOT normal
20
And as well as showing that DROUGHT in Australia is not NORMAL,
You then have to show that human released CO2 has cause this never-before-occurring drought in Australia, after a period of increasing rainfall, was caused by human released CO2.
You know you can never do that, so you run and hide and avoid.
Its your only course of action.
20
The null hypothesis is that climate change is natural.
You need to provide evidence that it is not.
Demanding the contrary, as you have done, is a form of the argument from ignorance fallacy (reversing the onus of proof).
20
And yet there are plenty of overtly political climate scientists and journalists, but that seems fine with you as they are of your ideological bent.
Or does ‘overly political’ only go one way.
Pot meet kettle.
81
A list would be nice, or a link,
Another baseless assertion DLK
04
“or a link”
Yep we are still waiting for a link to some actual real empirical science showing human released CO causes any actual warming
So far, you have been an ABYSS of nothingness. !
50
you provided no evidence for your own assertion, but demand I provide it.
So: after you (and please provide actual evidence, not left wing talking points).
You accuse me of making ‘another baseless assertion’ with… your very own baseless assertion!
evidence?
50
You will never get any relevant real evidence from that source.
He has NONE.
20
No you make the assertion about the scientists, I ask for a link. As to my point, copy, paste and see what comes up. (hint: The Guardian)
04
See, I told you that no evidence would be forthcoming from the greenie troll.
Evasion is his only weapon, because science and facts, he has NONE.
31
From Scientist to Activist
https://medium.com/@huprice/from-scientist-to-activist-5a4ffe13e2cb
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/08/from-scientist-to-activist/
20
I especially like this bit: “I wasted so much of my time in my early climate talks (1999~2008) debating the science…”
and
“How many atmospheric chemists are out there who can explain the science in a way that the average person can understand and connect it to justice and equity?”
amd
““We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.” – Elie Wiesel”
20
For the Volunteer Firefighters Association (NSW) – https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/09/firefighters-group-that-disputes-climate-link-to-bushfires-has-close-ties-to-shooters-party
whereas the offical group is http://www.rfsa.org.au/
04
And For andy
http://folk.uio.no/gunnarmy/paper/myhre_grl98.pdf
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.5589/m04-044
http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/ccr/publications/meehl_additivity.pdf
https://theconversation.com/climate-explained-why-carbon-dioxide-has-such-outsized-influence-on-earths-climate-123064
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/global-warming/temperature-change
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-and-co2/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-dioxide-and-climate/
https://www.livescience.com/58203-how-carbon-dioxide-is-warming-earth.html
https://history.aip.org/climate/co2.htm
https://phys.org/news/2017-03-science-carbon-dioxide-climate.html
https://phys.org/news/2010-10-carbon-dioxide-earths-temperature.html
12
and for andy pt one
http://folk.uio.no/gunnarmy/paper/myhre_grl98.pdf
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.5589/m04-044
http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/ccr/publications/meehl_additivity.pdf
https://theconversation.com/climate-explained-why-carbon-dioxide-has-such-outsized-influence-on-earths-climate-123064
13
and for andy pt 2
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/global-warming/temperature-change
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-and-co2/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-dioxide-and-climate/
https://www.livescience.com/58203-how-carbon-dioxide-is-warming-earth.html
https://history.aip.org/climate/co2.htm
https://phys.org/news/2017-03-science-carbon-dioxide-climate.html
https://phys.org/news/2010-10-carbon-dioxide-earths-temperature.html
11
You have been shown MANY times that your cut and paste contains ABSOLUTELY NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that CO2 causes warming
Stop posting irrelevant lists of links that you do not comprehend..
1. Models, unvalidated, not evidence.
2. Using nitrogen cooled sensors to measure non-heat, creating reverse energy flux. Worse than no evidence
3. More models, unvalidated, meaningless. Does not show any link to temperature anyway. not evidence
4. Conversation mantra rhetoric of total anti-science. Laughable
5. Regurgitated mantra rhetoric, contains zero evidence.
You are yet again invited to show us EXACTLY WHERE in your cut and paste list of links this empirical evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2 occurs.
Or you could continue to make a total fool of yourself.
41
LOL, ignore number 5.
Looks like you left the 5th one off your usual cut and paste list
Realised it was basically just garbage, did you 😉
Now wake up to the other ones being the same level of non-evidence.
40
LOL, nobody except you takes the Gruniad as anything except a far-left propaganda rag.
Look at the fires, use your eye.
Fires of this sort do not happen without a very large fuel load.
Anyone could go into basically any forest in the eastern states, and see that fuel load that you are so willfully blind to.
40
Again, we await for Peter to show us exactly where in his copy/paste set of links his actual evidence is.
pt2
1. contains no data, just rhetoric.. not evidence
2. Shows peak CO2 cannot sustain peak temperature. CO2 follows temperature. evidence AGAINST CO2 warming
3. shows a rising CO2 yes we knew that. great news. no temperature causality evidence
4. Shows that CO2 lags temperature, and that peak CO2 cannot maintain peak temperature another failure
5. Lots of waffle, even mentions the mythical blanket (LOL), which does not exist… not evidence of anything.
6. lots of suppositions, waffle and drawing vague correlations, No actual evidence anywhere.
7. Again lots of waffle and history of the climate scam, but no actual measured evidence.
8. A laughable correlation to a temperature series deliberately faked to match CO2 rise. Evidence of corruption of science, not of CO2 warming.
9. LOL “Our climate modeling simulation should be viewed as an experiment in atmospheric physics”….And you think this is evidence.. Wow !!!
So, [[snip]nothing] yet again. !!
10
So, as Jo requested that you do on at least 2 occasions that I can remember.
Go and read your mess of non-evidence cut and paste links, read them all for the first time…
.. then select just one, and show us exactly where the empirical evidence is in that link.
Regurgitating a mess of links, which you obviously haven’t read or comprehended, for the “nth” time, is a total waste of everyone’s time,
I hope Jo disallows them next time you attempt to do so.
11
Victoriastan police also refused to acknowledge that gangs from a certain country were a problem .
90
Also heard an interview with someone in the CFA and when asked about planned burning admitted it was a political issue and he had to be careful to match his answer with the hierarchy.
70
In my area people regularly demolish their old house (costing tens of thousands) then build a new house (costing several hundreds of thousands).
I can’t help wondering whether there are some who are secretly happy to see there old crappy house burnt down in a bushfire enabling them to build the house of their dreams and save a fortune.
Sometimes when people are interviewed on the site of burnt house, they say how terrible it is, but I imagine the look in their eyes is almost cheery.
People will hate me for even suggesting this, and I know the majority are really devastated and many fight bravely to save their house, but still I do wonder.
75
Jane Marwick, 2GB, is covering the battle of political & bureaucratic wills that is raging over hazard reduction.
she has just interviewed Don Graham, who has lost his house, and written this letter to The Australian (behind paywall), which references a landscape painting that was on the wall of his house, and which he has saved, I think he said:
Memories of a valley vista lost to a conflagration – The Australian – Letters
2 days ago
Donald and Bron Graham, Buchan, Vic:
That painting (dated 1867) unambiguously described a landscape of open woodland that was still under the control of our First Peoples. Since that time it had turned into a powder keg of dense scrub-filled forest, with an accumulated fuel load of at least 70 years…
Nick Cater is on with Jane now and Vic Jurskis, author “Firestick Ecology”, will be on later.
90
Pat, hazard reduction burning is old news.
The fires were caused by Arson, that fact isn’t being either hidden or denied any longer.
13
Arson is a distraction, ironically ……..
********the lack of hazard reduction burning is the issue******
111
No, Arson is the issue.
Lightning strikes are a force of nature, maybe one or two small fires that burned out without
anyone knowing were caused by lightning.
Arson isn’t a force of nature.
It’s deliberate, and it’s an attack on Australia.
So yeah, Arson is the issue.
27
They are both the issue; maybe arson starting the fires, but lack of adequate hazard-reduction work the reason for the fires becoming far worse than they need have been.
110
Nonsense….what damage can arson do if there is little to burn?
The issue is lack of hazard reduction burning.
111
My reply at 19.1.1.1.2 is for Hatband…
60
Reduction burning is only possible in small localised areas to protect property and lives. The big bush fires will still occur when the conditions are suitable as they have been lately.
13
But burn enough of those areas…and….
10
No, hazard reduction is the MAIN issue. Without fuel arson is a minor problem. Bare dirt doesn’t burn no matter how hard you try to light it.
Hazard reduction MUST be kept in front of the people and the pollies until they act to do something about it once and for all.
62
Erm,.. the cause of the fires was people intentionally lighting the fires.
Nothing else.
211
The cause of the intensity of the fires was dryness of neglected overgrown forests after 3 years of well below average rainfall. I’ve also seen some data on very high UV levels, which also has a drying effect on plant material.
Fanned by natural windy an hot weather events, once the fire was in those forests there was no way human resources could have done anything to stop it or control it.
None of this has anything to do with the baseless anti-science conjecture that human released CO2 causes global warming.
111
ps.
Not going too much into the actual starting cause of these fires, but in the current weather conditions, I would consider a cigarette but of any open fire lit for cooking etc as tantamount to arson.
Nobody accidentally throws a cigarette butt or lights a camping fire.
90
Erm, I think it’s too tight; loosen it a bit.
40
chuckle… well said KK.
40
Reduction burning is only possible in small localised areas to protect property and lives. The big bush fires will still occur when the conditions are suitable as they have been lately. So our focus is to protect some properties and all lives and let the rest of the bush land burn, which in itself is a natural way of fuel reduction across largely remote areas covering in total many millions of hectares.
24
I’m with Beowulf and OriginalSteve.
The main issue is Hazard reduction. Leaving all the fuel lying around is like leaving the front door unlocked and saying thieves are the main issue.
We all wish there were no burglars/arsonists but they will always be there, and a lot of what is being called arson is just accidents. Like the fire south of Perth yesterday. It was started by a boat trailer that lost a wheel which triggered sparks.
20
And that lack of hazard reduction is completely down to Climate change denying governments cutting funding to National Parks, State Forests and the RFS etc. It is denial that is the root cause of the fuel build up. For example, in NSW – NPWS, State Forests, and the RFS have rebutted this claim – but again denial is your stock in trade, so you have not read/listened/watched any of that now have you?
04
What a load of anti-science garbage your feeble mind comes up with. !
No evidence of anything.
Glad that you have FINALLY ADMITTED that the intensity of these fire is purely down to lack of control burning.
Even looking at the fires burning, it is blatantly obvious that fuel load is the problem
You have either woken up.
… or are missing more toes.
—
NO EVIDENCE of any CO2 effect though, is there.
Next day, 20C..
All that CO2 released,
All that heat released by the fires,
All gone.
But none of that heat got “trapped” by all that extra CO2, did it..
20
In NSW Premier Gladys sacked or downgraded a lot of the NPWS staff, those that remain are stretched and only have time for hazard reduction work.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/nsw-deputy-premier-john-barilaros-hazard-reduction-swipe-worse-than-an-insult/news-story/546160173b4418e19b5caaf44ef73ac1
00
‘Scientists warn a timber industry proposal to allow some logging in national parks and on other public land to reduce bushfire risk is an “incredibly misleading” idea that could actually make forests more flammable.’
Mike Foley/ SMH
Mr Fitz is this true?
20
That lack of hazard reduction should be laid squarely at the feet of the Greens who infest governments and strategic government departments that have the say in what gets burnt, when it gets burnt and under what pre-conditions. Miles of Green tape clog up the process so that very little gets done.
There is no lack of public service staff to carry out hazard reductions if they had the will. Re-deploy, re-allocate positions from pointless paper-shuffling to field positions. For a start the RFS has 830 full time staff. Send some of them out in the off-season.
Cut the Green tape and watch things happen. Get the hell out of the way of the local brigades and let them work autonomously like they used to when we did have a lot more hazard reduction burns and a distinct scarcity of mega-blazes. Governments should support the local brigades during hazard reduction operations, indemnifying them if a rare burn goes wrong. Compensate the owners affected. It is a small price to pay to protect an entire community from being wiped out.
Like I said the other day Fitzy — move over, your lot have had their turn and what an outstanding job they’ve done!!!! How many towns wiped out? Time to let the grownups take over land management again.
20
PF. That makes no sense at all. Not even wrong…
10
won’t be able to post the Don Graham interview until Marwick’s program ends later tonight. however, Graham wrote the letter to The Australian, partly because he was furious Scott Morrison was copping so much criticism, which he considered was grossly unfair.
80
Fires being lit deliberately have been a problem for many years, but that is not really the current issue. The real issue is that once a fire starts, by whatever means, that fire rapidly becomes uncontrollable and grows considerably and cannot easily be stopped.
140
Yes
80
Really large bush fires are impossible to stop. As I keep saying our focus is to protect some properties and all lives and let the rest of the bush land burn, which in itself is a natural way of fuel reduction across largely remote areas covering in total many millions of hectares.
20
G’day Chris,
I sort of agree with you, but note that the chart Jo posted shows 37% of fires are considered to be “suspicious”. Add to that that a lot started rather close to the same time and I too become suspicious, and consider that the concentration in comments earlier on “pyromaniacs” is misplaced.
Cheers
Dave B
00
so much mis-information from the MSM at Carbon Brief, it’s best to post their entire Daily Briefing page, so u can see it all today. note the following sections:
8 Jan: Carbon Brief: Daily Briefing
Australia’s bushfires to cost billions as climate risks rise
Nearly 900 pensioners died in British heatwaves last year as experts warn houses are too hot
Pension funds urge Barclays to stop lending to fossil fuel firms
Bushfires show the good and the not-so-good in modern Australia
note individual articles at bottom, including:
One year to save the planet etc… – The Guardian
https://www.carbonbrief.org/daily-brief/australias-bushfires-to-cost-billions-as-climate-risks-rise
60
7 Jan: ABC: Victorian fire chief says calls for more fuel reduction burns are an ’emotional load of rubbish’
Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has moved to shut down calls for a massive increase in fuel reduction burns, as the state’s fire chief says the debate has involved “hysteria” and an “emotional load of rubbish”…
Some residents emerging from the East Gippsland township of Cann River, which was cut off by bushfires which have devastated the region, told the ABC on Tuesday they believe more planned burning should have been done.
Cann River farmer Graeme Connley said residents had been given “no say” in planned burning in their area.
“We’ve been trying since 1983 to get fuel reduction burning done because we had the big fire then,” he said.
“Today, we are being treated like puppets in the bush, we have no say in what is happening [with planned burning].”
Mr Connley said Cann River had lost all of its flora and fauna in the recent disaster…
Asked about the issue on Tuesday afternoon, (Vic Premier Daniel) Andrews said prescribed burns were part of an integrated strategy focused on protecting life but there were fewer days each year when they could be safely lit.
“Surely no-one is advocating that we put fire into the landscape in an unsafe way. That just wouldn’t be sensible, that would be dangerous,” he said.
He said controlled burns were “not a silver bullet”.
“I think there’s some good examples of where land that had been backburned quite hard — quite heavy fuel reduction burning only three or four years ago — burnt pretty hot last weekend.”…
The Country Fire Authority’s chief officer Steve Warrington said there was a “fair amount of emotion” around the issue.
“We’ve had fire down the landscape here that has had burns go right through it [during colder months] and it hasn’t slowed it at all,” he said.
“The emotive argument is not supported that fuel reduction burning will fix all our problems.
“Some of the hysteria that this will be the solution to all our problems is really just quite an emotional load of rubbish, to be honest.”
Mr Andrews highlighted the bungled 2015 planned burn near Lancefield in central Victoria — which destroyed four homes and burnt through more than 3,000 hectares of land — as a reason to exercise caution around burns.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-07/fuel-reduction-burn-debate-rubbish-says-vic-fire-chief/11849522
50
Volunteer Firefighters Association (NSW)
Don’t blame fire crews or climate, it’s FUEL
The recent fires in Victoria were driven by big fuel loads, not by the weather.
The fire danger index was a surprising low 16-20, but the high fuel loads resulted in predicted rates of spread of 0.5 kph and flame heights up to 10m.
In comparison, the fire danger index on Black Saturday 2009 reached around 130 -180. The FFDI is a measure of the speed, flame height and spotting distance.
There is a disturbing trend to:
Leave fuel loads unmanaged,
Blame fire crews for not doing enough, when they struggle to deal with fires driven by large fuel loads and unfavourable conditions,
Wait for the fire to come to us (it builds momentum as we wait), and
Blame climate change for these large and destructive fires.
We should be:
Managing fuel loads using cool / Indigenous burning techniques that were also once used by early settlers, farmers and graziers,
Restore the engagement of farmers and other land owners in early suppression options like tanker trailers and slip-on firefighting units,
Invest in early fire detection technologies like fire towers and scanning equipment (smoke, heat and other fire detection systems have reduced the frequency and severity of structural / building fires)
Once fuel loads are better managed, we can get back to basic firefighting techniques to help reduce the size of these fires.
It is the fuel loads that create the biggest problem.
https://volunteerfirefighters.org.au/dont-blame-fire-crews-or-climate-its-fuel
110
When the forest is extremely dry, fires will skip straight through controlled burn areas.
Most controlled burn areas will not see a bush fire in their effective lifetime.
Controlled burns are an effective tool around housing but are not a panacea for bushfire.
I really doubt whether their increased widespread use is cost effective in our litigious society.
28
I doubt if there would be much attention paid to bush fires if they did not threaten people and housing. In North America, naturally occurring fires are often just left to burn if they do not threaten property or valuable timber.
70
Rick that is what the dopey idiots have done here in Oz
And then the fires build with the weather
And burn homes farms people
Just like in Paradise California in November 2017 ehh ?
30
Even attempting back-burning in the sort of condition we have had is almost certain to lead to other problems.
There must be much wider fire-breaks around all human habitation, and along all public roads.
100
Well, here’s the Spring 2019 FDDI map issued by BOM on 16/12/2019
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-18/ffdi-spring-map/11810502
Also this:
“Special Climate Statement 72—dangerous bushfire weather in spring 2019”
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/statements/scs72.pdf
10
Most curious Steve
Summer begins on December 1st
But these documents, dated the 19/12/2019
Are warning about the fire danger risk in SPRING 2019 !
The horse has well & truly bolted by then
As we know to our cost here in the Adelaide Hills
30
I blame their super computer…..once the BOM hooked up the free-to-air tv box to it, its been on the blink ever since…..
10
b…but they p…predicted it, right?
00
Forget the BOM, Kek.
It’s been a laughingstock since Methuselah was a pup, and some things never change.
The big story now is that The Megaphone is admitting that the fires were caused by
Arsonists, but the Arsonists were probably young and naive, or maybe it was a
Lifestyle Choice, anyway disadvantaged useless males aged 18-25.
20
Great way to ruin the ecology
06
Don’t be so ridiculous PF.
10
It seems my comment to you on don’t be so r1dicul0us is in moderation!
10
“Great way to ruin the ecology”
What, letting the fuel load build up to dangerously high levels ?
That is what has caused the inferno type intensity of these fires.
That is what has made them so impossible to access and control.
And we all know what agenda caused that, don’t we. 😉
30
Premier Dan A and the Vic fire chief will soon get a very emotional response from me and mine if we are burnt again as I hold them responsible for the truly reprehensible lack of fuel reduction in our area and elsewhere in Victoria. They are a disgrace, trying to push away their guilt in this situation.
This could have been done and maintained, especially along the roadsides. Do they really want us all to go through all that again? Our very overgrown, disgraceful roadsides are heavily used by residents and very many tourists to Lake Eildon and beyond.
Words fail me; I am angry beyond words; polite-ish ones anyway.
40
Best of luck Annie! Thinking of you and hoping for a good outcome, but the stress itself must be punishment enough.
10
There’s a good reason to have a Royal Commission, right there, just to disabuse future debate of the nonsense Daniel Andrews is now injecting, in order to avoid responsibility for literally disastrous policies.
111
And they know they will get belted ( metaphorically ) for this so they try to shut it down…..
Too late, Comrade Andrews…..
91
Premier Dan doesn’t mind talking about Fuel Reduction Burns til the cows come home.
As long as he doesn’t have to talk about Arsonists in State Forests and National Parks , he’d
be happy reciting the Melbourne White Pages from A-Z.
00
8 Jan: Daily Mail: ‘Arson is not caused by climate change’: Row breaks out over real cause of Australia’s bushfires after it emerges more than 180 people have been arrested for starting them
•Liberal MP has claimed arson to blame for bushfires, rather than climate change
•Craig Kelly, a climate change skepticism, appeared on Good Morning Britain
•24 people have been charged with bushfire-related offences this fire season
•A further 53 people arrested for failing to comply with state-imposed fire bans
•At least 25 people have died, and 1,500 homes have been destroyed so far
•Some have seized on arrests to say that impact of climate change is overstated
By Sophie Tanno and Brittany Chain
MAP: This map shows the statistics across each state of Australia where people have been charged for lighting fires
There have been ***183 people arrested or charged with lighting bushfires ***nationally – and police fear that figure will climb…
Mitch Parish, a former arson squad detective, said the international frenzy surrounding the bushfire crisis would only increase a ‘vanity arsonists’ desire to light an inferno.
‘It’s got to the stage where they’re seeing all the publicity on the fires … and they get bit of a buzz because of all the attention,’ Mr Parish said.
‘People get very emotional and passionate (about fires) and feel a lot of power because it’s a very destructive force.’…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7860635/Australian-bushfire-crisis-183-people-arrested-24-charged-starting-fires.html
why has DM written that ***183 was a National figure? as Jo posted and SMH reported:
6 Jan 2020. ***NSW Police: Since Friday 8 November 2019, legal action – which ranges from cautions through to criminal charges – has been taken against 183 people – including 40 juveniles – for 205 bushfire-related offences.
5 Jan: SMH: ***NSW Police have taken legal action against 183 people so far this bushfire season, including charging 24 people with deliberately lighting bushfires.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw-fires-legal-action-taken-against-183-people-this-bushfire-season-20200106-p53p97.html
110
Jane Marwick, 2GB, invited Janet Stanley, Associate Professor at Melbourne University’s Sustainable Society Institute, on to her show tonight. didn’t hear all of it, but it seems Stanley doesn’t believe in punishing arsonists because they are very unhappy people. Marwick is NOT impressed. neither are her listeners.
pity Marwick is only standing in for John Stanley. she should be doing the program permanently.
90
I feel this attempt by the ABC and others to play down the arson epidemic that has emerged in relation to these fires highlights the role of arsonists as mass murderers which is clearly what they are. If an arsonist by definition has intentionally lit a fire then his crime is no less heinous and arguably more heinous than the most notorious mass murderers . Yet I challenge anyone to name one convicted arsonist whose actions resulted in multiple deaths. Everyone remembers Julian Knight, Martin Bryant, Harold Shipman, son of Sam, Gargasoulas but arsonists for some reason have this element of anonymity which serves no purpose other than to delude the community that they don’t exist. Rather than less publicity they should get more and face the scrutiny of community at large. Brenton Tarrant ( NZ mosque attack) had his manifesto publicised which gave some insight into his actions . Back stories are valuable public information to explain behaviours that are extreme. It would be illuminating to see what drives each one of these arsonists . Until we know eco terrorism is merely speculation but the number of arsonists involved in these fires appears to inordinately high and to play down these numbers would be irresponsible behaviour by any media networks that do so.
50
Waco….?
But the issue is lack of hazard reduction burning.
30
Hazard reduction yes but you pointed out the twisted mindset of hard leftists which I agree with totally.
30
Not sure of your point, but the Kings Cross Pyromaniac who killed 15 in 1975 was convicted and sentenced to Life.
Ditto the Childers Backpacker Pyromaniac.
Nero was History’s most infamous Pyromaniac, he ”fiddled while Rome burned”.
Closer to the present, Wizard Chef Escoffier was a noted Pyromaniac, he burned down several of
Cesar Ritz’s Paris hotels before being Committed.
00
Looter activists frightened dumb Americans from continuing to build reactors–thereby having energy AND reducing harm by the safety differential. Now like 1940s Nationalsocialists Yanks meddle in Ottoman territory and are surprised when fanatics hijack planes into buildings and fires fuel econazi agendas to ban electrical generation entirely. Surprise is one of the leading tells for bovine stupidity. A sharp rise in the death rate is another.
14
1. AGW crowd predicts doom unless we pay sacrifice to Climatus (God of carbon dioxide)
2. Something bad happens (anything, too much, too little, an average amount(value adjusted))
3. “See we told you”
4. Someone points out that actually (e.g. an extinction rebellion supporter) was lighting fires
5. Climatus acolytes heap contumely upon that person
6. Social media war ensues blurring the clear principle violation demonstrated (#4)
7. Labor/Green leader eg Premier Dan announces that in fact the police have made no arson chatges in Victoria
8. Repeat
60
“A search on “The Guardian arson” and “abc.net.au arson”, or “theguardian.com arson arrests” turns up almost no other headlines about the large number of Australian arsonists?”. That’s because (as I noted above) a significant number of the people you refer to in the blog post did not commit arson (as you’ve noted) and won’t be charged with this offence. Commercial media won’t use the term arson unless it’s the charge or the finding due to the legal ramifications of the term being used incorrectly.
30
The Left:
1. Lies told often enough . . .
2. Lies circle the globe . . .
3. Mass Media Hypes the Lies and reports the truth on page 98,412 or higher
And why any one with a brain believes Modern Era reporting is one of the Mysteries of the Ages.
130
Interesting that when a building burns down one night, no one presumes it to be all down to global warming and that arson must be out of the question. The standard news report usually states “police have not ruled out arson yet”.
Here in WA (and I’m sure in most of OZ too) we’re used to the phenomenon of ‘pole top fires’ caused when built-up dust on wooden power pole insulators becomes sufficiently damp with rain or humidity to allow current flow which can result in enough heat to set fire to wooden poles. Poorly maintained power poles can also be a cause. A serious fire in 2014 in the Perth hills was due to a white ant ridden pole falling and starting a fire. Pole maintenance costs money and, like that fire escape we’ve all seen used for temporary storage, it can just “be sorted out later when we have time/money”.
120
The news about arson arrests just hit here too. This whole post brings out just one thing, how much government and journalistic lying there is, both here and in Australia. If such lying was a crime I can only imagine how many around the world could end up swinging from a tree at the end of a rope, not that I’m advocating something that drastic but it sure would provide a good incentive for the rest to behave themselves.
Temptation, get thee behind me.
100
Up until yesterday, the Media were reporting that all the Experts were unanimous:
”It’s Climate Change.”
Today, they’re saying ”Yes, it’s Arson, but they’re teenage kids from disadvantaged
backgrounds just having a bit of a lark. We didn’t report it because the cops say it will
encourage copycat attacks.”
Is that the truth, or is it Limited Hangout, because the Narrative has completely
changed over a few days?
50
Its a clever and deliberate ploy by overwhelming the media with the arson meme.
Ive noticed very few comments about hazard reduction burning ( this I am sure is by design ) , and we need to make sure the real issue, which is lack of hazard reduction burning , doesnt go down the memory hole.
The people on the south coast were incandescent with anger about lack of hazard reduction burning….I have rellies who are deeply embedded in at least one south coast city who know a lot of people and are very clear its lack of hazard reduction burning. They also realize climate change is complete unscientific nonsense.
The lack of hazard reduction apparent root cause of these fires will not die……
81
You haven’t quite managed to overwhelm this thread
with your multiple postings on Hazard Reduction, but
The day is still young.
13
Not really….
Posts by Hatband = 37 ( as at 14:34 9/1/2020 )
Posts by Self = 30 ( including this one, as at 14:34 9/1/2020 )
31
Steve, I stopped bothering to spend time
On Hatband’s comments 3-4 days ago.
Long winded and obfuscating most of them.
41
The Forests that are already burnt won’t need Hazard Reduction Burning for years, if ever.
It’s too late to start Hazard Reduction Burning on the unburnt Forests, that’s an issue for
another day, though it looks like Dan Andrews and yourself would like
to talk about it til Kingdom Come.
01
It’s still climate change. You should not mix ignition source and the resulting fire. Nor should you concentrate on only one factor – soil moisture, weather etc all play a part, and that is where climate change makes everything worse.
117
If everything plays a part including arson how big a part expressed as a percentage has AGW played in the fires this summer. If you dont know just say “i dont know” dont bother to respond with the standard cult diatribe
71
In respect of the Bushfires destroying Victoria and New South Wales:
1. Climate Change is irrelevant to the issue
2. The amount of fuel is irrelevant to the issue.
The fires have been deliberately lit, no one knows by who, or their motivations.
Claims that the culprits are disadvantaged youth can only be considered
if their is some evidence for that being offered.
So far there’s been only Third Party expert opinion.
But no supporting evidence.
05
You seem to be ignoring all the evidence.
70
The amount of fuel is irrelevant to the issue. ????????? WHAT?
Irrelevant to what issue? We know a great many have been started by people.
The severity of these fires is not controlled by the ignition source.
FUEL + oxygen + heat / ignition source = fire
MEGA FUEL + O2 + heat source = MEGA fire
60
The Arson Issue, remember?
It’s the title of the thread.
If the fires are caused by a changing Climate then, yes, Fuel Loads are the Issue.
But, if the fires are caused by Arsonists, then Arsonists are the Issue.
So, which box do you want to pick,
Climate Change or Arsonists?
00
prove it.
oh, that’s right, climate change is an unfalsifiable paradigm, so you can’t.
60
Prove to you that making something hotter and drier is going to make it more likely to burn?
You’re beyond reasoning with.
[Be careful to stay away from personal attacks. Attack the position or opinion all you want to but keep it civil.] AZ
18
John, reading between the moderation is this the only read first summer where it has been hot enough and dry enough for things to burn?
Trying to understand you comment, jt does nit make much sense
80
You’ve been looking at faked data and listening to media headlines. Get some real data and that argument dries up.
50
No, just prove that anthropocentric co2 emissions are THE substantial causative factor of ‘climate change’ (ie the temperature control knob for the planet).
40
[Be careful to stay away from personal attacks. Attack the position or opinion all you want to but keep it civil.] AZ
Excellent advice!
00
Way to go 🙂
00
‘It’s still climate change.’
Climate is 30 years and over that time we have noted some amazing oscillatory ‘shifts’, but this bushfire season is not exceptional and droughty weather is the culprit. Political naivety is responsible for the build up of fuel loads and taking a leaf out of the Beijing song book, prevention is preferable to a cure.
At the beginning of every fire season all young men in rural and regional areas need to be rounded up and anyone who looks a bit dodgy should be placed under house arrest for the summer. Or they could be sent to Bali.
30
Its been 2 hours got that % figure yet
40
“It’s still climate change.”
LOL …and yet another scientifically unsubstantiated garbage statement.
When are you going to produce some actual evidence .
Its actually “CLIMATE NORMAL” for Australia to have periodic drought conditions.
70
“climate change makes everything worse”
A garbage anti-science statement yet again, with absolutely ZERO evidence.
NSW shows a gradually INCREASING rainfall until the NATURAL drought of the last 3 years
Please explain how human released CO2 causes increased rainfall, then drought.
This is “CLIMATE NORMAL”
You have NOTHING to offer except mantra cult belief.
60
Peter,
You keep trying to sound so expert and authoritative yet you shoot down your own argument by sticking in the one thing that you can support by any kind of evidence at all.
The rest is just an argument with another comment. The weather is all you have that you can support because anyone can see that the weather was hot, the wind blew, conditions were dry, etc. You have systematically failed to show evidence that climate is changing and not just weather doing what it always does, change from year to year, day to day and so-on. Needless to say, you have not shown that CO2 is even capable of what you claim it can do.
When is too much enough?
20
[…] STOP PRESS. Jo Nova on the spin that the warming worriers are putting on the arson statistics. […]
00
Even the “Murdoch press” are playing along with this. I posted this on the AB blog and it was rejected.
A News article Firefighter slams ‘outright lies’ about bushfires, as experts expose bots and bizarre conspiracies
And a picture of what looks like a body builder/model rather than a CFS volunteer in front of an American fire truck
30
They are spinning it because they arecdesperate
We are winning….
60
I recall an arsonist that went to jail. In Canberra in the early hours of new years day 2002, a young man was walking home past a pine forest at Scrivener Dam. He was cold so he lit a fire. The fire destroyed the pine forest. In January 2003, bushfires that started in NSW, got into the ACT and destroyed much of the southern suburbs. The fires didn’t get into the northern suburbs because the pine forest that separated north and south, in other words fuel, had been burnt the year before.
50
So they should have given him a Nobel Peace Prize.
10
The fact that so many arsonists are teenagers is probably nothing new but teenagers also comprise those most radicalised by the global warming indoctrination. Whilst these teenagers may have no conscious propensity to light fires the constant badgering associate with the global warming proopaganda must have a subliminal influence on their brains.
There is no doubt that whilst no human being would want to see the wanton damage and deaths associated with bushfires warmists welcome the wake up message that they believe these fires send. The desire to provide convincing proofs( where none are apparent) means that extremists within the AGW movement are barracking for the fires ( although not the consequences of it ). I can understand this is how they feel because as a committed sceptic I have the exact opposite emotion with every news item of bushfires causing within me serious anxieties not just because of the lives lost and properties destroyed but because of the concern that the political response may be to drive our leaders into going further down this socialist anti capitalist, economically destructive road that if implemented would turn Australia into an economic basket case.
51
The propaganda of global warming attribution is a very new field of ‘science’.
They can’t afford to have undermined. Not now …
CSIRO, Nov 2019:
“The old phrase “climate is what you expect, weather is what you get” suggests that from a
climate changeglobal warming point of view we can talk about the changes to the climate statistics, but that commenting on an individual event is not possible.In practice this was the case for a long time, but the field of event attribution emerged in the early 2000s aiming to do just this.”
https://ecos.csiro.au/climate-change-and-extreme-events-quantifying-the-changing-odds/
>> I like how when the fires rage, it’s global warming, but, when relieving cool front comes through, it’s weather …
Sydney news: Bushfires ease with rain and cooler temperatures, fireworks found at Sydney grassfire
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-06/sydney-news-monday-morning-briefing/11843022
40
December 2019 commenced with Australia’s coldest summer temperature on record, along with 3 days of snowfall on the tops.
Ever since, a non-stop series of large, low pressure systems (snow storms / blizzards, if you will) have rolled eastwards, south of the continent, and on towards us. One storm even began life as a tropical cyclone off Madagascar, drifting south-eastwards across the breadth of the Indian Ocean before joining the Roaring Forties, clipping Tasmania before dropping snow on our Southern Alps on Christmas Day. Hey Mann, at least MY predictions come true. 🙂
1. These large, summer (snow) storms have been preceded by warm fronts, pushing warm desert air ahead of them towards the east coast, ie. QLD, NSW, VIC.
2. As they pass, a cool change ensues, soon to be followed by the next approaching warm nor’west front, pushing warm/hot air ahead of it.
3. Could it be – these endless COLD storms are accentuating the heat?
30
We had a couple of hot days in Victoria where the wavy jet-stream created razor-wire thin north winds headed down through central Victoria carrying a very hot day, while the far west Perth side and far east coast Sydney side had luxury spring like temperatures if i may accentuate my point. NZ had below zero temperatures across a lot of the south island while this was occurring from a persistent jetstream wobble coming way up from the south.
My meteorological reporting skills are not the best but i had to reply. 🙂
10
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/700hPa/overlay=temp/orthographic=149.39,-38.49,667/loc=-28.022,52.267
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/overlay=temp/orthographic=149.39,-38.49,667/loc=-28.022,52.267
00
All this talk of arson is just misdirection.
The primary cause is the climate: http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/annual/aus/
Victoria has a sophisticated prescribed burning regime, but that has been hindered because it has been too hot and dry.
517
Exactly right Simon.
217
No, Simon is quite wrong. The last half-century in Australia has been wetter, a lot wetter, than the first half-century. 2019 was an exceptionally dry year in the east, drier than normal. But this is weather, NOT climate!!
40
Nope – wrong
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016980951500263X
02
MODELS not data !!!
Get REAL. !
10
Why are you posting links to MODELED data, rather than REAL data ?
10
“But this is weather, NOT climate”
The alarmista vassals/shills are ALWAYS confused about those two things.
General upward trend in rainfall in NSW, with 3 rather dry years in 2017, 2018 and 2019.
PLEASE EXPLAIN how this pattern is cause by a constant and regular rise in beneficial atmospheric CO2./
While you are at it, you could perhaps try again to produce some actual evidence that human released CO2 has any affect on the climate whatsoever.
Of you could continue to be a total FAILURE in that regard.
00
and the link is?
01
So you can’t explain.. why did even expect you to try to ?
SLITHERY EVASION to cover your ineptitude.
I have posted that link at least 4 times in the last few days.
Go find it.
00
Or the NSW data
https://i1.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/australia-NSW-rainfall-1900-2019.png
Generally positive anomalies since 1940, hence upward trend.
Then 3 bad years at the end
Please explain in your own words, how increased atmospheric CO2 caused this.
As anyone can see.. droughts in Australia are are CLIMATE NORMAL
(time for the comedy show) 😉
10
Try this one for a start
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/images/a027-fig2.png
Notice all that red before 1970 and all that blue POSITIVE ANOMALY after 1970
10
Then you could download this.
https://data.longpaddock.qld.gov.au/static/products/pdf/australiasvariablerainfall2019.pdf
And explain how atmospheric CO2 cause the non-difference between 2019 and say 1929, 1983, 1902, 1945 etc etc
Point us to the CO2 caused rainfall change in this chart, because I’m sure you think it must be there 😉
10
even if we were to accept BOM’s notoriously homogenized figures, that link proves nothing about the causes of ‘climate change’, which is a natural event occurring since the year dot.
90
According to HadCrut4, the world’s average was only 0.6 degrees more than 1939. Why Australia (and half the planet) warms at more than twice the average is a bit of a mystery – if for real and due to human emissions of CO2.
Still, 1.5 degrees doesn’t make all the difference. Adelaide was hotter than Melbourne in 2009 but no fires were lit.
51
Australia hasn’t warmed any faster.
(BOM’s data fabrication might show it, but that is not real)
There has, in fact, been no warming over Australia this century.
30
stop with the made up graph Andy
This is the real data https://www.nsstc.uah.edu/climate/
03
Why are you posting global instead of Australian data.
Attempted EVASION again?
Or just your incompetence as usual.!
10
Oh behave….tsk….
10
Post is for Patricia….
00
On the contrary, the only natural form of fire ignition is lightning strike and therefore uncontrollable, if this were the only fires this summer both of you would be relegated back to trying to explain how putting co2 between the sun and a thermometer makes the temp rise (unsuccessfully i might add).
But no here you both are gloating over the death and destruction imposed on others claiming your God caused it all
90
“Victoria has a sophisticated prescribed burning regime”.
So sophisticated that you can’t even smell the smoke.
140
They have a VESDA system which detects AGW smoke
60
They might have a regime in place, but they failed to implement it last year.
00
Also DWELP now refuse to provide access to their data on their burning regime, information that was publicly available previously. One organisation had to pay $1294 to obtain the information using FOA.
10
I am replying because you might Kalmly look at it.
Ok….i live in the Latrobe Valley Victoria and the smoke is so thick during winter early spring that i frequently check whats burning on http://emergency.vic.gov.au/respond/#
My research is that 9.5 out of ten, all that smoke is generated mostly by fire caused by controlled burns that only use one person to attend the controlled burn.
In this case, the controlled burns is the what is left after logging in Plantation Forests. The plantation forest industry make huge bonfires that are made of dead wood buldozed into large piles. These need very little action and monitoring is performed by one person. Usually. These burns are very different to the controlled burns in a living forest of excess fuel.
Any experts that know more about this me please elucidate. In my case, i purchased two electrostatic air cleaners made by a company called Friedrich C-90B Electrostatic Air Purifier to make the smoke tolerable. The coal fired power station is nearby and the smell of coal is very rare.
00
Maybe………..these controlled burns by the plantation industry are funded with a few cans of beer. Guessing and not fact checking here.. Not saying skill is not involved in these cases. Funding the controlled burns of wood and detritus piled/bulldozed into a mound seems to be low intensity.
01
Friedrich C-90B Electrostatic Air Purifier’s rock 🙂
00
Facile. Once again it seems the so-called “experts” find out the reality long after rational people have determinations. Best not to listen to experts who totally lack common-sense and wisdom.
70
Simon the talk about arson is not misdirection, but putting that aside, a positive IOD and neutral ENSO are weather related.
Open your mind to natural climate change and the first thing you’ll notice is that its a cyclic phenomenon.
https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2018_01_09_08_21_27-down.png
60
The Bureau of Meteorology’s annual climate statement released today (9-01-20) confirms 2019 was the nation’s warmest and driest year on record.
https://theconversation.com/weather-bureau-says-hottest-driest-year-on-record-led-to-extreme-bushfire-season-129447
BoM’s David Jones confirms CO2 influencing the IOD!
In comments Anita Spinks asks: “Can we expect the IOD to have an increased presence due to [global warming]?”
DJ: There is evidence that this is the case – https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2009GL040163
“[Global warming] alters both the mean state and the behaviour of the climate drivers (“natural variability”).
The first is fairly easy to understand and detect, the second is more complex and uncertain.”
Wait. What?
Complex and uncertain?
The science on which we employ solar panels is complex and uncertain?
And the end is clear?
71
Beijing scientists don’t mention climate change, they are not in need of grants.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00382-017-3908-2
50
There were planned prescribed burns in this area, not cancelled because it was ‘too hot and dry’, but because the best time was when all the little diddums tourists from Melbourne were coming up here and might have to put up with a bit of smoke.
Now see the smoke from big fires where the fuel reduction burns weren’t done.
80
The problem is that you have spent no time or curiosity on what “global warming” might entail. Pity. It’s a fascinating area of knowledge/speculation.
https://www.raisinguppharaoh.com/2018/08/11/190-sahara-pump-neolithic-pluvial-out-of-africa/
The good thing is that all the talk of “global warming” has set people like me wondering and inquiring, at least a little.
The downer is that those doing the talking are completely without curiosity, as if any exposure to the actual subject might corrupt pure conviction.
Do you even think of all that cold water which has been associated with the present drought? Really, you are like JWs on the doorstep with copies of the Watchtower to give out before they get going to the next house. You have to stay on message at all cost.
And no thinking!
50
mosomoso:
An interesting site which I must explore more. Thanks for finding it.
And don’t worry about Peter Fitzroy etc. they are incapable of examining facts.
10
“because it has been too hot and dry”
And before that, summers were hot and wet.
Didn’t you know that its CLIMATE NORMAL for the Australian climate to fluctuate between drought and rain?
Simple simon. !!
60
Simon, you have neglected to include the fact that Victoria only implemented half its planned burns this year, only one third of that recommended by the Black Friday royal commission.
30
Sorry, should have said Black Saturday. Need to make sure the facts are correct.
20
Another fire 5 ks south of my place, grass fire on side of road, the grass just suddenly burst into flames i guess. 20 years in prison is a light sentence for them.
80
2 north of my place, from the peat fires which have been burning since October.
110
Did they simultaneously combust due to AGW or did someone set it alight?
90
Spontaneously combust…..
70
A Redhead matched police description.
lol
10
We made the CFS page fire experts are on the scene trying to express as a percentage the role AGW played, tbe fact that grass does not spontaneously combust suggests AGW played no role at all, blasphemy yes i know but i am an atheist.
You can now begin gloating about the omni potent force of your trace gas God and how it has effe tinv the lives of few thousand more people
80
PF: “2 north of my place, from the peat fires which have been burning since October.”
Are the peat fires burning with open flames or just hot and smoldering? How big are 2 fires North of your place?
20
peat fire burn even in the Arctic
So your statement is, yet again, totally meaningless and irrelevant.
60
Peter, you have mentioned your favourite peat fires recently and folks have commented on them. What is the relevance of your peat fires to the topics being discussed here?
40
Like most of his posts.. basically IRRELEVANT.
11
I already suggested this to Roy Spencer, but perhaps you could write a Quillette piece in response to the piece at https://quillette.com/2020/01/08/lessons-from-australias-bushfires-we-need-more-science-less-rhetoric/. (Send it to pitch@quillette.com.)
20
I found a lot to disagree with there.Tendentious and inner urban.
40
Interesting discussion at that link (as I am not a member of that forum, I will just post my observation here).
No.
In what way is multiple incidents of lung cancer in multiple different persons over a human life span comparable to a natural event that has been occurring to ONE planet every instant since the world began (the world, as Heraclitus said, is in constant flux).
We cannot observe multiple different planet earths over the entirety of their existence (indeed, the planet has no twins, which is a reasonable but limited control for studying the effects of genetics and environment).
So whilst cigarettes as a causative factor is not provable we can more readily make reasonable inferences to justify the conjecture.
A (very) quick look at the studies on smoking shows that the balance of effect between genetics and environment is not settled.
But the science of climate change is settled beyond dispute and no one is allowed to say otherwise!
30
Lot of Flak today.
Must be over the target.
120
Yes but they are firing blanks so no battle damage received
61
Whoops, my bad, s’posed to be YES tick!
(doffing hat and closing door behind me)
Humour the b@st@rds!
10
I am surprised as to the high proportion of deliberately lit fires. After doing some research looking at local and overseas studies it appears roughly 2/3 of bush fires are deliberately lit, with the rest either accidentally lit or natural. So those claiming that most of the fires are caused by lightning are either telling lies or are totally ignorant of the facts.
The way I see it though is we always had people deliberately lighting fires in the bush. In the past when the conditions were not so bad I bet most of them failed to spread. Over the past decade or so we have had good rains promoting lots of growth. More recently we had drier conditions leading to more dead fuel on the ground. Add summer heat conditions and we have a perfect storm for the arsonists. Of course this doesn’t let them off. They deserve the full force of the law to be applied (and more IMHO).
31
No one isprepared to consider the possibility that the Bushfires are
the result of coordinated Arson.
Statistics may well confirm that fires are lit by disadvantages youth,
but, so what?
Q: How can a disadvantaged Youth access remote Bush, then light a fire,
with any hope of getting out alive?
A: He can’t, unless he has good Bushfire knowledge from being a volunteer, which is unlikely.
23
….Which basically kills your idea of co-ordinated arson.
The premise is that for such people it would literally be a suicide run.
Unless we see bodies turn up, your theory may have to be discarded…
11
How so?
If it’s coordinated Arson, then it’s being done by Professionals who know what they are doing.
00
200 cases of arson comes down to 26. No reported cases of arson in Victoria. Simple facts, Jo.
Hey and what about the realisation that conservatives in Great Britain agree with and accept the science of climate change? It was a hell of a shock for poor Craig Kelly. I imagine it must be a shock for deniers who only ever communicate in ‘blogs’. Time wounds all heels.
310
Ross,
Every fire caused by arson is a fire that need not have happened and therefore homes and lives lost that need not of happened.
WRT kelly i dont think any australin denier cares about what the UK think the reason why……and this is important Ross so pay attention. A denier arrives at their place of denial based on their own thoughts on tbe subject as opposed to a member of a cult who has arrived at their place of belief because they have followed tbe herd.
Personally i dont care what you or anybody else thinks i make up my own mind.
For example: the NH is smashing cold and snow records this we are told is caused by AGW, tbe heat and bush fires here are caused by AGW.
You and your fellow cult members accept this on face value, i ask the very legitimate question whether AGW will cause global cooling or global warming for asking this queztion you will label me a denier
100
“The Queensland University of Technology senior lecturer on social network analysis Dr Timothy Graham examined content published on the #arsonemergency hashtag on Twitter, assessing 1,340 tweets, 1,203 of which were unique, published by 315 accounts.
His preliminary analysis found there is likely a “current disinformation campaign” on Twitter’s #arsonemergency hashtag due to the “suspiciously high number of bot-like and troll-like accounts”.
He similarly found a large number of suspicious accounts posting on the #australiafire and #bushfireaustralia hashtags.”
Has Doctor Graham done similar searches on #climate change hastags to determine whether there have been likely disinformation campaigns.
70
Twitter bots and trolls promote conspiracy theories about Australian bushfires
Research from QUT shows that ‘some kind of a disinformation campaign’ is pushing the Twitter hashtag #ArsonEmergency. There is no arson emergency.
“They were really focused in particular on climate denial, and The Greens being responsible for the bushfires, and arson attacks being responsible for the bushfires as well,” he told ZDNet on Tuesday.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/twitter-bots-and-trolls-promote-conspiracy-theories-about-australian-bushfires/
>> No one denies the last ice age.
There is no such thing as ‘climate denial’.
What a crock.
60
As one of those who gets asked “What caused that fire” and whose answer/guess goes on the official record……
“Suspicious” is the tag we give when there is no other obvious cause.
But let’s argue that all suspicious fire were arson….. and let’s imagine that we could come up with a strategy for cutting arson rates in half . That would be a hell of a big drop in any category of crime, but it would still leave us with 75% of our current fires. The two big fires in the Southern NSW – Dunn’s Road and Green Valley, were started by lightning.
Discussions about arson are necessary, but they are in no way an excuse for ignoring our need to manage fuel, access and other aspects of preparedness for fire.
82
We’ve got no idea who the Arsonists are, or their motivations.
The Authorities are sitting tight on this information,
while the Fuel Reductionists are bleating
”Reduce Fuel Loads”
The usual suspects splutter ”Climate Change”
and Government flunkies keep distributing the Red Herrings.
05
” … and Government flunkies keep distributing the Red Herrings.”
Government flunky meets red herring …
2009: Australia bushfires: Arsonists guilty of ‘mass murder’ says PM
Australia bushfires death toll may reach 200
The prime minister, Kevin Rudd, Speaking about the fears that arson could have played a part, he said: “What do you say about anyone like that [an arsonist]?
There’s no words to describe it, other than it’s mass murder.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/09/australia-bushfires
61
“other aspects of preparedness for fire”
Build non flammable houses in bushfire zones and clear around infrastructure.
Problem solved, no more lives or homes lost.
Cheaper insurance premiums for everyone.
There is so much money washing around this issue now I wonder whether some people will be financially better off if destructive bushfires continue and they will never push for an effective cure.
02
On the whole yes, fire protection plus a reasonable fire break means the fire may get to the structure but it will be pretty cold by then. A firebreak of 1 km of cleared land around townships ( lots of under 1/2 AC) might help as will allowing selective logging.
10
What is a non flammable house? Underground or at least surrounded by earth berms? Not at all what the people who want to dwell in the forest want. And the cost?
20
Forest housing is usually Low Cost D-I-Y.
Not to worry, though, they won’t be allowed to rebuild.
00
In any information war, when there is Green-Marxist agenda, facts and reason have little value.
60
“Online posts exaggerating the role of arson are being used to undermine the link between bushfires and climate change”
More accurately…. “Online posts exaggerating the role of climate change are being used to undermine the link between bushfires and arson”
140
They are doing everything they can to undermine the link between the intensity of he fires and the dry fuel load build up.
They have to, because they KNOW their their environmental agenda of lock-up and neglect is one of the main reasons FOR that fire intensity.
101
Carbon sinks, prevention of land clearing are obvious sources of fuel for a fire.
But we are told to believe it’s the invisible gas in the sky rather than the dead trees, overgrown weeds and plants etc. that increase fire intensity.
80
Carbon sinks is a perfect example of how one bad idea begets another.
20
Irrespective of the cause of the fires, the severity,rapid advance and destructive nature of the fires can absolutely and positively be attributed to the greens and the global warming loopsters whose policies, and the spineless administrations who did not excercise any degree of due diligence in the implementation of these policies set the country up for this disaster, in the clear knowledge of warnings from those who had previously demonstrated an effective regime to manage the risks of these wildfires occurring.
122
UN Agenda 30 – Sustainability
Protecting forests for wildlife and future generations, so green fools decide lock them up and leave them to nature.
Ignoramus.
20
Here is an interesting one via Dr Roy Spencer …
BUSHFIRES – AN INTEGRAL PART OF AUSTRALIA’S ENVIRONMENT
01/01/1995
This article has been contributed by Mr N. P. Cheney, CSIRO Division of Forestry.
https://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/6C98BB75496A5AD1CA2569DE00267E48
via: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/01/are-australia-bushfires-worsening-from-human-caused-climate-change/
– Curiously, though, according to Australia Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) data, the 1974-75 bushfires occurred during a year with above-average precipitation & below-average temp…opposite to the narrative that major bushfires are a feature of just excessively hot and dry years.
70
To the CAGW alarmists it matters not what the conditions are; hot, cold, dry, wet, etc., bush fires are now always due to man-made climate change according to the leftards. Hollywood actors have stated the bush fires are due to climate change so it must be true, right? NO! They tell lies. After all that’s what acting is all about.
60
Conncerned Actors for Climate Change.
20
A post yesterday on Facebook of a photo taken at sunrise on New Years Day and the Aboriginal flag
https://educateinspirechange.org/alternative-news/ancestors-are-saying-something-fires-turn-sky-into-aboriginal-flag-stunning-australians
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another great choice (sarc) for a repeat during theirABC’ summer holidays:
AUDIO: 54m6s: 8 Jan: ABC Big Ideas: What price nature?
Can we better conserve our ecosystems and biodiversity by placing an economic value on them? Some scientists, environmentalists and economists believe we need to view the natural environment as ‘natural capital’. Paul Barclay speaks to a panel of experts.
Presented by the Griffith Review. Recorded on March 21, 2019.
Original broadcast date: April 4, 2019
Speakers
Charles Massy – farmer and author (practices regenerative agriculture, which is both economically viable, and ecologically sustainable)
Jane Gleeson White – author (Six Capitals, Or Can Accountants Save The Planet)
Hugh Possingham – Chief Scientist, The Nature Conservancy; Professor, University of Queensland.
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/what-price-nature/11729562
begins with Jane Gleeson White, who brings up an interesting character I’d never heard of – Carl Obst – she says he happens to be an Australian. he had been head of Australian Bureau of Statistics; head of National Accounting. also author of the new UN guideline called “The system of environmental and economic accounting”. listen for what Australia has signed up to do.
ABC’s Barclay: for example, we know what a tree is worth if you cut it down, what this is attempting to do is put a value on this tree if we don’t cut it down.
LinkedIn: Carl Obst, Director at Institute for the Development of Environmental-Economic Accounting (IDEEA), Melbourne
Experience includes:
Director, Institute for the Development of Environmental-Economic Accounting (IDEEA)
Sep 2015 – Present
Consultant Editor, System of Environmental-Economic Accounting
United Nations Statistics Division
May 2010 – Jun 2013
Head, National Accounts Branch
Australian Bureau of Statistics
Jun 2003 – Jan 2008
https://au.linkedin.com/in/carl-obst-4321a85
The Conversation: Carl Obst articles
https://theconversation.com/profiles/carl-obst-101166/articles
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I’d like to know more about the green tape involved in fuel reduction burns and how much it impacts on each years targets .
I do know some take up to seven years from step one to the eventual burn .
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Fuel reduction is not all about burning. It also includes clearing using various other means. They are all necessary for proper fire risk management. If a Royal Commission is instigated that must be the main focus of attention to expose the c0rrupt practices and subsequently the relevant people brought to account.
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In year 1900, the estimated population of Aboriginal people in Australia was 117,000
The area of Australia’s land is some 7.7 million square kilometres. Dividing one by another, we have 66 sq km per person. If we assume 4 people per family, this gives about 250 sq km per family. However, not all of Australia was populated by and gave living to, these families. Let us assume that one tenth of the land was occupied. Each family then has 5 x 5 km or 6,200 acres.
It is being said that aboriginal people practised controlled “mosaic” burning that eventually dictated the natural plant composition and appearance of the countryside. This is plausible if we accept that all of the inhabitants at the time did what the academics think they did. It seems not so hard for a family to light small fires regularly on their 5 x 5 km. If each fire was controlled to say 1 x 1 km and its effects lasted for 5 years before the next burn, then there would be a need for 5 family fires a year.
While these simple numbers compute, they do no more than show what is remotely plausible and then invite criticism for the assumptions.
The bigger question relates to year 2020. Controlled burns to reduce the risk of large, hot, destructive fires are getting much discussion. Drawing from the example above, what is the barrier to today’s rural landowners burning their own 5 cold, small fires each year? One can even imagine that the need for such fires would lessen over the decades as the countryside altered in response.
Geoff S
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is there any information linking the proximity of ignition sites to public roads or access ways …?
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Its official ergo announced on their ABC arson is to blame. there were 3 fires close to each other on the Williamstown to kersbrook road luckily the cfs got to it in time.
It is possible the God of co2 possessed a cult member and lit the fires therefore we can say its caused by AGW but as i said earlier i am an atheist
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Not sure how one’s religious views has anything to do with the lighting of fires and their stance on AGW. It’s a fact that AGW alarmists are made up of all types, including atheists.
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AGW acceptance requires belief the same as religion ergo AGW is a religion
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Saying anything that people believe in is a religion is too broad a definition. People believe there is life on other worlds but that doesn’t make it a religion even if it’s wrong.
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Crakar I think faith is the word your looking for , belief comes later .
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I’ve been hearing lots of support coming from overseas, such as from NZ, US and Canada. Any from China? We have helped a number of Asian countries in times of need, such as tsunamis and earthquakes.
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Papua has offered troops but China is holding back in fear of being misunderstood, running propaganda is the only thing they intend to contribute.
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202001/09/WS5e1681f0a310cf3e355835ce.html
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Heard Russia offer was knocked back previously and seriously I don’t know what the reasoning was .
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Sending Chinese Checkers.
lol
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Its been said above – but Im saying here – It seems a no brainer that the media and the fire bureaucracies and their hyperventilating coverage is likely to be the very cause of many fires. Its like they want to encourage arsonists. With suicide cases and terrorism the bureaucracies and the media are very coy because they recognise a link between over enthusiastic reporting and copycats. Here all caution thrown to the wind “Listen up everyone! Tomorrow is going to be a CATASTROPHIC fire danger day. We are going to be so stretched we wont be able to cope!”
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“The Truth About the Australian Bushfires.”
Link at
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/01/09/january-9-2020-reader-tips/
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Just an example of constant green propaganda, driving through Geelong today on the main highway over the Barwon bridge was a sign ” THINK CLIMATE. There is no Planet B. Geelong Sustainability. ” Whoever they are. But signs in public libraries here are rabbiting about moving towards the ” Zero Waste Household. ” It’s relentless. So many groups are being funded to promulgate the loony green agenda. Talk now of getting rid of weekly council rubbish collection… fortnightly or less to come. This is the green leftist future that awaits.
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The ABC has a story about maps with fire symbols etc. etc.
They have given the wrong impression. Who knew?
20
Avi Yemini exposing the Greens agenda and lies about the bush fires, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KLb2GKhpNk
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Good, clear and succinct explanation of the real causes of the fires. Thank you.
10
Don’t forget two other main causes:
1 Eucalyptus spreads its seeds by means of fire, a burning eucalyptus tree literaly explodes to blast the seeds around, and with it the fire as well.
2 at least 5% preventive clearance is needed, whereas only 2% is realised, so there is a pileup of litter.
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Some seeds need both smoke and fire to germinate but Fitz is the expert I’m amazed he hasn’t mentioned it .
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Not quite Hans. Someone has been telling you fibs. If a fire is hot enough to make a tree explode I can assure you its seed would be destroyed by the heat too. Many hundreds of degrees — enough to easily melt aluminium. Eucalypt seed is tiny, like coarse pepper, and the trees definitely do not blast seed all around. Eucalypts drop their seed like most trees and even a warm wind is enough to initiate seed-fall.
Their seedlings do survive better in a bed of ash though because it has had all the competing plants and soil pathogens destroyed by the heat. Eucalypt seedlings are very susceptible to fungal infection. The same protective effect can be achieved by grading away the top 5 or 10cm of topsoil.
Most Eucalypts will survive fire when other trees around them don’t, giving them the advantage. They are not like Banksias that actually require fire to open their hard seed capsules or acacias that require heat/abrasion to break their hard seed coat to allow germination to commence.
“Smoke-Water” has been available commercially for over 20 years now in Australia to aid in the germination of a lot of native plants in nurseries. Many plants have chemical inhibitors built into their seed-coats which must be broken down by the chemicals in smoke before those seeds will germinate.
Very many Australian rainforest trees use similar chemical inhibitors, but theirs are more complex. You have to mimic the effect of digestion by a bird to kick start the growth cycle.
You are totally correct about the accumulation of litter on the forest floor. It is an outrage that it has been allowed to happen.
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Thanks for the correction on eucalyptus seeds, however, exploding eucalyptus trees that worsen forest fires was a big issue in Portugal where the fast growing trees were planted in reforestation programmes.
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Not really the trees that “explode”, its the eucalyptus oil released when the trees get over heated.
You can drive through any forest region in summer, and the smell of eucalyptus oil can be extremely strong.
And if you get a big fire, it become very flammable.
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The litter is gone for another 10 years, more if the trees are gone too.
In other, possibly important news, the
Fires were the result of Arson.
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follow-up to comments #19 and #25:
3m18s to 16m40s: interview with Donald Graham, followed by comment from Nick Cater/Menzies Research Institute/journalist to 19m58s.
43m50s to 56m08s: interview with Vic Jurskis/Firestick Ecology.
1h05m26s to 1h13m50s: interview with Prof Janet Stanley on arson.
AUDIO: 2h49m29s: 2GB: Nights with Jane Marwick
https://www.2gb.com/podcast/nights-with-jane-marwick-wednesday-8th-january/
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coming to Australian farmland soon!
7 Jan: UK Telegraph: EU farming subsidies to be replaced by fund linked to efforts to combat climate change, Theresa Villiers to announce
By Helena Horton
Speaking at the Oxford Farming Conference, Theresa Villiers will confirm that the Government’s landmark Agriculture Bill will be introduced this month to Parliament, which will replace the Common Agricultural Policy.
She is expected to say the new scheme “will be one of the most important environmental reforms for 40 years” and set the standard for climate change action across the world.
The bill will put forward a new approach where farmers and land managers are rewarded with public money for ‘public goods’ – such as enhancing biodiversity, tackling climate change and raising standards of animal welfare.
However, the president of the National Farmers’ Union has argued that the government has not gone far enough to help farmers protect the environment so far and pointed out that little has been done to mitigate flooding, which has significantly reduced crop yields.
The new funding will come after a seven-year transition period for farmers, who will see Direct Payments gradually phased out…
Ms Villiers will say: …“We have the potential to create a virtuous circle between agriculture, tackling climate change, protecting biodiversity, and securing investment in our rural economy.”…
To provide support to farmers in the lead up to, and during, this transformation, the Environment Secretary will confirm the Government will guarantee the current annual budget for farmers in every year of the Parliament…READ ON
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/07/eu-farming-subsidies-replaced-fund-linked-efforts-combat-climate/amp/
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what a future. farmers farming wind; farmfree food:
8 Jan: BBC: Food ‘made from air’ could compete with soya
By Roger Harrabin
Finnish scientists producing a protein “from thin air” say it will compete with soya on price within the decade.
The protein is produced from soil bacteria fed on hydrogen split from water by electricity.
The researchers say if the electricity comes from solar and wind power, the food can be grown with near-zero greenhouse gas emissions…
When I visited Solar Foods’ pilot plant on the outskirts of Helsinki last year the researchers were raising funds for expansion…
I ate a few grains of the precious protein flour – called Solein – and tasted nothing, which is what the scientists have planned…
The progress of this extraordinary technology has been hailed by the environmental campaigner George Monbiot, who has made a TV documentary, Apocalypse Cow, broadcast on Channel 4 in the UK at 22:00 GMT on Wednesday.
Monbiot is generally pessimistic about the future of the planet, but says Solar Foods has given him hope…
Monbiot: “But farmfree food offers hope where hope was missing. We will soon be able to feed the world without devouring it.”…READ ON
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51019798
and coal miners learning to code:
5 Jan: WUWT: Joe Biden’s Climate Advice to Coal Miners: “learn to code”
by Eric Worrall
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/05/joe-bidens-climate-advice-to-coal-miners-learn-to-code/
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Harrabin and Monbiot; what a believable combination.
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ok boomers. you have the FINANCIAL POWER:
8 Jan: Vox: Boomers: You can still be heroes in the story of climate change
You have the political power to solve the climate crisis. Use it.
By Laura McGann (ex-Politico)
You might not like to hear it, as many of you have long told pollsters you consider yourselves environmentalists, but collectively you have exacerbated the climate crisis more than any other generation.
Fossil fuels were cheap as you came of age and you burned too much of them…
So instead of investing in cleaner energy sources or preparing for a less-stable environmental future during good economic times, you passed on problems…
As Australia burns and the Trump administration stymies international collaboration and bails out the coal industry, you have a chance to redefine your generation and save the day. You’ve already proven you are a generation that can evolve. You changed your views on social values and are far more similar to millennials than your parents. It’s not too late to do the same on climate…READ ON
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/1/8/21055097/baby-boomers-climate-change-australia
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7 Jan: The Atlantic: How Long Will Australia Be Livable?
Facing a future of fire, drought, and rising oceans, Australians will have to weigh the choice between getting out early or staying to fight.
Bianca Nogrady
My hometown of Blackheath, perched at the top of the Blue Mountains, surrounded by stunning but drought-parched Australian wilderness, was in the center of this flaming pincer…
“This is our Gallipoli; this is our bushfire Gallipoli,” says David Bowman, a professor of environmental change biology at the University of Tasmania. He’s talking about the bushfires that began in the spring of September 2019, that have burned in every state and territory, that have claimed at least 24 lives, that have destroyed nearly 1,800 homes, and that have turned more than 8.4 million hectares of land into lifeless charcoal…
As the country suffers through one of its worst droughts on record, and heat waves shatter temperature records not once but twice within the same summer week, some are asking whether Australians can afford to keep returning to the same parched, scorched landscapes that they have occupied not just since the European invasion two and a half centuries ago, but for tens of thousands of years before that. Even before climate change, survival — particularly of agriculture — in some parts of Australia was precarious. Farmers were so often rescued from the very edge of disaster by long-overdue rains that arrived just in time. Now the effects of climate change are making that scenario even less likely, and this bushfire season and drought are but a herald of things to come…
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/01/only-way-confront-australias-wildfires/604546/
the writer, who lives in the Blue Mountains:
Bianca Nogrady: In more than a decade of freelance reporting, my work has appeared in outlets including Nature, The Atlantic, The Guardian, Undark, MIT Technology Review, the BMJ, Australian Geographic, Scientific American, the ABC, and BBC.
I am author of The End: The Human Experience Of Death, editor of the 2019 and 2015 Best Australian Science Writing anthologies, and co-author of The Sixth Wave: How To Succeed In A Resource-Limited World.
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For some reason a line in Casablanca comes to mind…”Roadup the usual suspects”
00
Ahh! Round up .. has spelling checker gone woke?
00
8 Jan: AmericanThinker: Another Expensive Solar Scheme Bites the Dust
by Norman Rogers
(Norman Rogers is the author of the book Dumb Energy: A Critique of Wind and Solar Energy. He runs the website NevadaSolarScam.com)
The purveyors of solar energy are working overtime to spin the now official failure of the Crescent Dunes thermal solar plant in central Nevada. The contracts to purchase the electricity from the constantly broken plant will be voided. Bloomberg Businessweek claims that Crescent Dunes was obsoleted by technological advances in the form of photovoltaic based solar plants. That is nonsense and misses the whole point of the Crescent Dunes project. It also misses the reality that all utility-scale solar is a failure — not marginal, not growing into being practical, but a total and complete failure…READ ON
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/01/another_expensive_solar_scheme_bites_the_dust.html
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8 Jan: ClimateNewsNetwork: Germany’s green energy quest stalls
by Kieran Cooke
Despite its ambitious goals and promising start, Germany’s green energy quest is faltering, and it has missed a key target…
Under its Energiewende or energy transition policy unveiled 20 years ago, Germany has made substantial progress in transforming its energy sector, reducing the use of climate-changing fossil fuels and boosting energy from renewable sources…
But, though the Energiewende policy was initially successful, making further progress on replacing fossil fuels with renewables and cutting back on GHG emissions is now proving ever more difficult.
The initial aim was to achieve an overall 40% drop in GHG emissions by the end of 2019 as compared to 1990 levels: clearly that target has not been met.
Several factors are in play: despite early progress on cutting back on coal use, Germany – which has Europe’s largest economy – has so far failed to wean itself off its dependence on what is the dirtiest of fossil fuels.
More than 25% of Germany’s total energy production comes from coal – one of the highest rates among European countries. Most of the coal burned is lignite, the most polluting form of the fossil fuel…
The German government says it will shut its more than 100 coal-fired power stations by 2038. Some say this is far too late…
Out of sight
In recent years there’s been growing concern about the proliferation of land-based wind turbines: more restrictions have been brought in on their construction, resulting in a drastic cut-back in wind project start-ups…
The state has brought in some of the country’s most stringent restrictions on wind power projects: to meet its ambitious decarbonisation targets and, at the same time, ensure its energy supply, Munich is now having to invest in wind power installations abroad, some as distant as Norway.
But such enterprises carry their own set of problems. Environmental groups in Norway have raised objections to wind power turbine installations which they say threaten the beauty of the landscape. In particular they criticise the construction of such projects solely for the export of energy.
https://climatenewsnetwork.net/germanys-green-energy-quest-stalls/
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two days in a phucing row i am woken by the sounds of a cfs siren, this time a grass fire 400 meters from my place, its cool overcast and no wind and yet a fire starts peter phucinv phitzroy will still blame AGW
10
Crakar:
We know that paper burns at 233℃ and dry grass must be close to that, so all Peter F has to do is maintain that Global Warming has reached that temperature, at least locally.
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How did that fire progress with cool windless conditions?
00
Arson.
There’s no other explanation.
00
you can’t use arson in the middle of winter or during a downpour. Arson can start a million fires but arson doesn’t make them progress to an out of control infernos
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“doesn’t make them progress to an out of control infernos”
nope, lots of neglected dry fuel load after a 3 year deficit of rainfall after a generally increase in rainfall is needed to do that
00
Correctimundo.
Let’s take a gander at the Bombing of Dresden.
TheU.S. military had built model German towns to firebomb..
The purpose was to discover the most efficient placement of incendiaries to create an
inferno.It worked.
The USAF woulda looked purty stupid if they’d dropped all them bombs
but the fires went out.
So,it’s not dumb luck.
As the Royal Commissioner states in the next thread:
”The cause of the fires was human hand.
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“Instead it turned out to be caused by two teenagers with cigarette butts.”
No problem, if they’d been vaping.
10
ABC has “crunched the numbers…and can reveal that..only about 1 per cent of the land burnt in NSW this bushfire season can be officially attributed to arson”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reveal-arson-not-a-major-cause/11855022
And you know it’s true, because the ABC isn’t biased. It only reports FACT
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