Welcome to another day in the lost democracy. The place where an elected government thinks that cheating is the answer. What was Julia Gillard thinking? This turnaround is happening so fast. She announced the Carbon Tax only last Thursday, and already former members of her own party are discussing what genre of “lie” it qualifies as, or speculating over who will take over as PM, the polls are falling, and thousands of people are getting organized behind the scenes. Even one of the star team at the launch of the Tax has had to admit he’s not completely behind it. Worse the opposition now has a clear cause to fight for (Repeal the tax!). Rallies are being planned in most capital cities, phones are running hot, new groups have sprung into action, posters and T-Shirts are being printed. O Joy and what not, “Galvanised” is the word. People I’ve never spoken to are emailing me about their plans.
Meanwhile the Greens are falling all over themselves to help the skeptics. Please, someone – organize more mass media interviews with Bob Brown and Christine Milne where they tell people alternately that the Greens are behind the Big New Awful Tax, and how making everyone pay more for petrol is a good thing.
Poor Gillard had tried to take power from the Greens by shifting “left”, but instead has fed the monster. She’s pumped them oxygen, and with a industrial compressor. They’re twice life size and floating. The last thing Gillard needed was to look like she was being controlled by the greens, and the last thing any of the do-gooder patchwork government needed was to remind all the voters that the rulers were quite enjoying the thought of the economic penance the public would have to pay.
Gillard’s leadership appears to be unraveling already, and how ironic, how inexplicable, it’s over the same core falsity that brought down Kevin Rudd. She’s pouring cold water over the speculation by Bob Hawke, but Hawke was speculating about Kevin Rudd’s demise a month before Rudd’s leadership was over.
Andrew Bolt has been having a a field day with reputations of journalists as he roasts Lawrie Oakes, Ross Gittins, Lenore Taylor, Phillip Coorey, and others. These are supposedly some of our most erudite political commentators, yet their fauxtrage at Tony Abbott, who merely suggested he did not tell the gospel truth in the heat of the moment is exposed as rank hypocrisy. Excuse me sir, your bias is showing…
The Herald Sun poll: With a monster 37,000 votes, three quarters of people, don’t want the tax.
Do you support a price on carbon?
- Yes 26.66% (10076 votes)
- No 73.34% (27718 votes)
Total votes: 37794
We live in interesting times.
UPDATE: Visit the SMH poll and let them know what you think.
More groups are gathering:
Say No to the Carbon Tax Rally on Sat 12th March in Victoria.
Menzies House: StopGillardsCarbonTax
h/t to Australian Climate Madness.
Fauxtrage: Urban Dictionary despite what the Urban Dictionary says it’s mostly a word used by the left against the right. (Learnt from Mattb).
As Napoleon is reputed to have said, never disturb an enemy who’s contemplating a great mistake. Let her push forward with it …
Pointman
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You have support from the other side of this earth (flat or spherical, take your pick).
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Last night I again heard the line being pushed about the “fantastic number of jobs this move will create”.
Perhaps the immigration minister should up the advertising in Spain & California. Apparently there are a few job seekers there who know just how fantastic being low carbon is.
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Ms Gillard says that we don’t want to be left behind. Behind who? THe five biggest “polluters” are China, USA, Russia, India and Japan. (See graph) The first four do not have crbon dioxide emissions taxes, The fifth has turned it’s back on the Kyoto protocol.
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The Tea Party is being quite successful here in the states at rolling back socialist policy (and a “carbon tax” is every bit the socialist’s dream)…perhaps you need to begin your own Tea Party movement?
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Australians, keep up the pressure. We have been making great inroads here in the States due to the Tea Party movement and the fact that the Republicans have finally galvanized against Obama and his socialists.
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Everthing bad comes from the UK, including Gillard.
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Ooo goodie, this is going to get interesting …
It looks like there are four scenarios: a) She drops this particular potato (perhaps to resurrect it with a new coat of paint); b) She gets rolled by her own party; c) She goes to the polls for a fresh mandate; d) She brazens it out, and tries to force it through in the belief that the electorate will have forgotten about it by the next election.
I am picking option “d”, on the grounds that female politicians tend to work under the assumption that they need more “balls” than the blokes.
She has also recently had a long conversation with John Key (PM NZ) who will have extolled the wonders of the New Zealand ETS, and will have pointed out that Australia should also have one under CER – John is also an ex-trader, and can see ca$h in the trade of credits across the ditch.
Going to be interesting though, whatever happens – better go and get some popcorn …
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John Key is a former bankster. I’m not sure there’s actually any former for that class of scammer though. Just look at the member for Goldman Sachs, Turnbull, mouthing off on TV last night about still supporting an ETS.
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The sheer insanity of the media bias for a carbon tax and its defense of Gillard’s Lie is hard to explain rationally. It seems as if Australian politics is marching down the same path that they have in the US. The mainstream media—just when you think they couldn’t stoop any lower—surprises by setting gobsmacking new standards in hypocrisy and delusion.
Likewise, it’s impossible to explain how the Green/Labor coalition has become so disconnected from reality to think higher taxes and wealth redistribution is the way federal government can control the weather. Why not just hire a good voodoo shaman? Way cheaper and just as effective.
Something happened in America when Emperor Obama announced during his inaugural address that he would “turn back the rising tides and heal the planet.” That spine tingler must have made Lefty pollies all over the world feel like “We are the ones we have been waiting for.” Their greed for sheer authoritarian power swelled only be matched by their hubris. Perhaps this is Obama’s great legacy to the world.
Well, Gillard certainly drank the Green kool-aid that’s kept Brown stoned for years. Delusions, greed and hubris are always the main ingredients in a ripping good tragedy. And now the stage is set for one seething great drama in the land downunder.
The only question is: What role the Australian people will play? Will they rise up like the masses in Egypt to protest or organize like the tea partiers in America to take back their nation from the delusion, power mad maniacs now in charge?
Or will the soma our mass media feeds us daily stone us into submission?
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I dunno guys, it worries me, sometimes I think we in the denial community are on the wrong side of history. But then I guess that should never stop us fighting tooth and nail to prevent this disaster happening and the end of the world as we know it.
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In the words of one former Prime Minister………
MAINTAIN THE RAGE !!!!!!!!!
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re the false claims that a tax on carbon dioxide will create jobs:
have our MSM not heard of the Spanish exprience, or Scotland’s for that matter?
28 Feb: BBC: Study says green sector costs more jobs than it creates
Government support for the renewable sector in Scotland is costing more jobs than it creates, a report has claimed.
A study by consultants Verso Economics found there was a negative impact from the policy to promote the industry.
It said 3.7 jobs were lost for every one created in the UK as a whole and that political leaders needed to engage in “honest debate” about the issue…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12597097
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I just wish that the producers and distributors of “fossil” fuels would get together and state that as the government has determined that CO2 emissions are a planetary hazard, they are going to shut down all coal mining and production and distribution of petroleum and its products. No-one could argue that they are in the wrong. Any government would back down from their Hazard position within seconds as they could not argue that this position is good for the country.
It is best to take any extreme position and use an even more extreme variant of the same position to destroy it.
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Nicely summarised there Rereke – those are the options as I see them. The only thing we also need to consider is that the Libs are too stupid to follow Napolean’s advice (see Pointman). I question whether the Libs can be disciplined enough to let Labor and the RC (Rainbow Coalition) unravel by themselves, just giving little nudges here and there.
It is ironic to think that the strongest aspect of the “price on carbon” policy is ths science, and I am speaking in relative terms only. The politics is pathetically weak, as outlined above, and the economics is dead wrong as illustrated by Henry Ergas’ article in The Australian yesterday (linked on yesterday’s thread).
Back to the possible outcomes, I think we will see the “price on carbon” go 3-0 on political leaders (Rudd, Turnbull, Gillard). It seems some people just don’t learn from history… even recent history.
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PS> I don’t think anyone has attacked the fact that Labor policy wants to kill coal mining. They want to slap not one, but two additional massive taxes on the industry (the “carbon price” and the MRRT). How many jobs do you think that will cost Jooolya?
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If the Australian people are going to do anything they had better hurry up. The decay of our electricity supply infrastructure from more than a decade of neglect, due mainly to any sensible investment in “real” generation and transmition as opposed to pretend solar and wind generation being put on hold, is already affecting prices and will start to seriously affect supply security over the next few years. It is time to kill the CAGW fraud for good. I still have no faith that the current opposition will be any better. They still get on TV with Greg Hunt and the Labor mole in the Liberal Party, Malcolm Turnbull, say “Climate Change is real” and have equally expensive and wastefull plans to fix the weather. The Opposition needs to get some independent review of the science done and clearly state that they intend to do nothing but wind back all government spending in this area.
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Web poll in the SMH this morning: “Should the Opposition repeal any carbon tax if it gets into government?”
So far yes 40%, no 60%, 149 votes.
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As I pointed out in the last thread, JG 3.18 is snookered, can’t back down, can’t “move forward”. There will be no backdown with this PM, the alternative would be her loss of personal power.
Methinks, that the NSW election is our best hope. A worse than expected party showing will usher in a new federal leader.
Also, I have not yet discounted the hypothesis that the timing of the CT is all about sinking the knife into Keneally. JG 3.18 can shelve it after the state election.
Desperate politicians will manifest desperate behaviour. Stay tuned…
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Bruce @ 14,
That’s a fair result since few conservatives read that leftist rag. Must be some true believers voting against as well.
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The world is melting – we’re all going to DIE !
Quick, give us money.
Yet Abbott is accused of “running a scare campaign” when he questions how much money will be involved ?
Spare me.
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http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victorians-stuck-with-desal-plant-20110228-1bbqs.html
And those are the optimistic numbers unadjusted for inflation. Fact is, this green dinosaur produces water at $13.68 a kilolitre, compared with the current residential rate of $1.50 a kilolitre.
And it can never be repealed.
This is what happens when batshyt crazy labor/Green coalitions are allowed to come to power. A few years back their dogma was that it would never rain again in Victoria due to climate change. So no need to build new water reservoirs…. Oops. Oh, well, as Greg Combet would say, look on the bright side—thousands of cradle to grave union jobs—GREEN jobs—have been created! That’s something no stupid reservoir could have provided.
Now the same kind of Green/Labor coalition government wants to yoke our entire economy to the same sacred cow. The cost: Untold billions for precisely nothing but a couple of thousand new bureaucrats in Canberra to administer the increased volume in paper shuffling. More GREEN jobs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xNnRBksvOU
In a perverse way I secretly hope that Julia the Liar gets her tax.
The Carbon Tax may be the Climate Catastrophe we have to have!
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Heather Ridout of the AIG (Australian Industry Group) is also uncertain about a “carbon price”:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-loses-key-carbon-supporter-heather-ridout/story-fn59niix-1226013808402
She is worried about it costing industry jobs, which we will end up sending overseas.
Labor’s policy is CO2 NIMBYism … they want us to stop emitting CO2, but realise full well the jobs will go overseas where they shall merrily carry on emitting. Policy in a vacuum of ignorance.
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Do you Australians not have access to lamp posts and lengths of rope?
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To all PUBLIC SERVANTS, we the serfs, are so over GREEN, ENVIRONMENT AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMEMT,as our homes businesses and families are being washed away from floods,destroyed by fires from over regulated interference and grose mismanagement, on all tiers of Government.
The billions squandered would have better served health, education, training skills for trade and social housing for the needy.
NO CARBON TAX FOR AUSTRALIA–
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I think one of the best ways to give the Global Warming / Carbon Induced Climate Change proponents what they want, and also experience life as they would have it is to shut down the power stations. A bit drastic, you might think, but if the power generators organised their programmed maintenance on, say, weekends, then the greens would have achieved real carbon reductions and everyone gets to experience life without electricity for a while and the power generators get the opportunity do catch up with some maintenance.
I estimate 2 weekends of inconvenience would probably destroy most of the following of the Greens as people realise how good their way of life really is.
Its a bit like a strike by the power generators and could be state or nation wide. Wind and solar generators can remain connected.
I’ll stock up my supplies for the weekend holiday.
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Mike Borgelt @#6
For readers who find that beyond belief, watch the video (transcript after 2pm to-day), if you have the stomach for it. To make matters worse, Turnbull is happily broadcasting his guff worldwide.
It has been apparent all along that nothing drives that man other than personal gain. He doesn’t even have the wit to know when to put a sock in it.
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The ABC now posts AGW opinion pieces from naive “global justice” post graduate students at UWA (sound like she has been sipping the Lewandosky Koolaid much?):
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/44542.html
I couldn’t force myself to read the entire drivel, but the reasoning was faulty within two paragraphs, so let’s see if the ABC mod squad lets this comment through:
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Bulldust@19.
There is a preponderance of finance industry members in Heather Sellout’s AIG.
Obviously, they will be the traders making the money from the carbon (dioxide emissions) market.
However, if all their large corporation clients move off-shore, that will adversely affect their profits.
Ridout has pushed any form of carbon dioxide tax before. I think the bankers and wankers are waking up!
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how predictable that the BBC should give Malcolm Turnbull a half-hour to talk about “climate change” “carbon” and the rest at this particular time. setting is outdoors at the double bay sailing club…nuff said:
28 Feb: BBC Hardtalk: ‘No doubt’ Tony Abbott will lead Liberals
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/default.stm
getting organised here:
nocarbontax.com.au
http://www.nocarbontax.com.au/
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The Herald Sun poll still seems to be accepting votes. It showed 41,249 votes counted a short time ago so please keep at it!
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Everyone should emphasise that petroleum and black coal are not the result of recycled biomass – they are deposits of hydrocarbons and carbon from the earth’s upper mantle.
Most of the CO2 entering the atmosphere comes from the earth’s interior via millions of fractures pervading the crust, whether land or oceanic.
But as long as the bizarre idea of fossil fuel holds sway, this battle will be uphill.
God’s sake, demolish the fossil fuel believe and you have taken the wind out of their sails!
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Julia Gillard may go, but that would surely not stop the organised global climate scam. Watch for the internationalist, Turnbull, to resurface.
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what a train wreck:
27 Feb: Washington Post: David Nakamura: D.C. reneges on aid to install solar panels
Dozens of District residents who installed solar panels on their homes under a government grant program promoting renewable energy have been told they will not be reimbursed thousands of dollars as promised because the funds were diverted to help close a citywide budget gap…
Ivan Frishberg, an environmental advocate and a member of Capitol Hill’s Advisory Neighborhood Commission, installed a $34,000 solar system on his home, only to be told that the city would not be able to reimburse him the $11,000 it had promised…
In the meantime, recognizing the likelihood of ongoing budget woes, Tulou and Cheh are considering a proposal that would slash in half the amount of grant money awarded in the solar energy incentive program next year….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/27/AR2011022702910.html?wprss=rss_metro
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Rereke Whakaaro: Post 5
A, If she drops this potato she will exit the same door as KRudd
B, If opinion polls go pear shaped as they did with KRudd she will be knifed pretty quickly the new leader will mumble something about a party that lost its way.
C, If she abandons her push on the TAX she will be crucified by the believers (See KRudd) however if she goes to the polls in search of a mandate she will lose the election.
D, As others have said this is really her only option, have you noticed the lack of information about this TAX the reason is because the Greens have given her their marching orders but she knows this will kill her. So the devil in the detail will be released slowly and i am guessing on a Friday afternoon.
Eventually the full ramifications of this TAX will be there for all to see and finally we will get to the heart of the issue which is of course the only way she can meet her budget in 2012/2013 is by applying a TAX, any TAX will do but this way she keeps the Greens happy and she gets to keep her job.
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Channel 10 had a phone poll the other night 3000 respondants 10% pro tax 90% against. Wonder how that squares with the 7:30 Project and George Negus?
Lets face it though we really do have to get the atmospheric CO2 levels down to fit with the flat global temperatures, otherwise all those computer models are going to look a bit silly.
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Pierre Gosselin has an article Yeah, Climate Protection Is Going To Be A Little Expensive where it’s reported that Europe’s plan to meet their targets is estimated to cost €2.9-trillion (million-million). Follow the link to the original article to read how the banks are salivating at the prospect.
See my comments on that blog about how that doesn’t equate to anything like a prudent spend to meet the target of CO2 reduction.
That is what the future holds if Gillard gets her tax; the first paving stone on the path to “carbon trade”. One that takes a lot and delivers nothing.
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I’m perplexed by the way they call a tax on carbon dioxide emissions a “carbon tax”. When a price of (for example) $26 per tonne is mentioned, does this mean $26 per tonne of carbon, or $26 per tonne of carbon dioxide?
It makes quite a difference to the costings. As carbon dioxide is only about 27% carbon by weight, each tonne of carbon would represent nearly 4 tonnes of carbon dioxide.
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Wow my post in 28 got up at the ABC – I wonder if saying you are cross posting makes the moderators hesitate over the delete button somewhat. It might be a good tactic to ensure you get posted.
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Crakar24 @ 35
I can see where are you coming from and basically agree. But the more I read the more I think the Greens don’t really know what they are doing (from a financial point of view)and they are making up as they go along to some extent.
Their followers certainly do not understand the game plan. They know all the catch phrases – “changing behaviour” the “polluters have to pay”, ” low income earners will be compensated” etc.
It is going to interesting over the next few weeks.
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A Billy Tea Party perhaps?
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You people just don’t understand that it was all about certainty. Now there was a lot of uncertainty about a carbon tax in the last election campaign so Gillard removed that uncertainty. Now she’s promised a tax to increase certainty and would you believe it, along comes Abbott promising to overturn her promise in future, thereby creating all this uncertainty again. Ipso facto, like Gillard you should all be telling Abbott where to go in no uncertain terms.
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observa@42
There definitely was certainty before the election. Labor (Gillard and Swann said “no carbon (dioxide) tax,” the coalition said ” No carbon (dioxide) tax.” That was pretty much certainty. What we didn’t know back then was that with the help of two independents, we would end up with Red Green Brown running the country.
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Some excellent Facebook groups dedicated to stopping jooLIER and her INFAMOUS carbon tax based on the FRAUD of global warming………..
Julia 10, But Never Again
Agenda 21 Exposed
Stop Gillard’s Carbon Tax
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“observa”,
The ONLY certainty that Australians want is
“THERE CERTAINLY WILL NEVER EVER BE A TAX/LEVY/WHATEVER ON CARBON”.
You “observa” are a troll!
If you are so keen for more taxation then YOU can pay for my massive increase in the cost of living!!
Please post your bank details so that I can arrange direct debits…….
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I personally think that the govt should be prepared for civil unrest.
Its not every day a PM says “Let them eat cake”.
Only fools ignore the lessons of history.
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Something about the TRAITOR Turncoat Turnbull………
Goldman Sachs’ Turnbull dances to British carbon trading tune
http://cecaust.com.au/main.asp?sub=releases&id=2009_10_13_Turnbull_CO2.html
‘Zero Carbon Australia – Stationary Energy Plan’ – Critique « BraveNewClimate – LAUNCHED BY TURNBULL
http://bravenewclimate.com/2010/08/12/zca2020-critique/
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Ross in 40,
I could not agree more, Gillard knows she has crossed the rubicon and there is no turning back but her hand was forced due to the unholy alliance she made with the greens. The greens have absolutely no idea what they are doing and base their policy on CO2 is pollution therefore we must apply a TAX.
I do not believe much thought has been applied here and no matter how stupid this TAX will be shown to be there is no turning back and we cannot stop them.
This from Bolt
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/can_your_boss_afford_to_pay_another_60_million_a_year_to_gillard/P40/
So in the end the middle class will get hammered and the low income families will be protected to try and shore up the Labor base.
May God have mercy on our souls
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Now there is an idea, given that the days of JG 3.18 are numbered, maybe Malcom is the man to replace her?
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Farmer Roger @ 11
We are not the denial community! The AGW lobby are the ones who deny natural climate change.
Don’t give their desperate name-calling and doublespeak any oxygen whatsoever.
Be assured we are on the right side of history. The “wholesale consensus” and “settled science” is collapsing all over the world and all the signs are that Nature itself is about to give the warmists a super dose of the cold reality of natural climate change. But you won’t read or hear about that in the MSM until it really hits, then watch the wriggling and squirming of all the alleged “journalists” who have shamelessly and unquestionably helped to promote this whole fraud!
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No doubt Nobel prize winner Al Gore will be organising a trip to Australia to publicly congratulate Julia and Bob in their efforts to save the polar bear. Australians could really ingratiate themselves with the USA Republicans if you chose to keep him.
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Oopsie! Jooolya can’t even keep her own climate advisor on track… Garnaut is saying agriculture should be included in the carcbon scheme too:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate-change-adviser-recommends-agriculture-be-included-under-a-carbon-price-regime/story-fn59niix-1226014181851
Got to hate it when your own hand-picked stooges start disagreeing with you.
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Percival Snodgrass:
in question time today Juliar’s reply was a to go on and on about what Turnbull had to say about a price on carbon and an ETS etc. I could almost see Turncoat shrinking below his seat as it must have been extremely embarrassing for him and I bet Abbott was justifiably outraged..
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The Facebook site REVOLT AGAINST THE CARBON TAX AUSTRALIA is organising Australia-wide rallies against Juliar Gillard’s carbon tax.
The date is Wednesday, 23 March 2011 – 10:30am to 1:30pm
These venues are confirmed:
* Sydney, NSW Parliament House, Macquarie Street, Sydney
* Canberra, Parliament House, Parliament Drive, Canberra
* Brisbane, Queensland Parliament House, Cnr George & Alice Streets, Brisbane
Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth will be on the same date but venues are still to be announced.
Hopefully, the next rallies will be held on a weekend so more people can attend.
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IT was a very strange tactical choice, when the opposition were looking fractured to announce this policy and take the heat off the multi-cultural debate. Perhaps they were capitalising on the slight uptick in the polls.
Whatever the reason, Gillard gave Abbott a very large stick to beat her up with, and gave the general public a lightning rod to ground their anger over Labor bungling, policy on the run and the shambles minority government. I cannot for the life of me figure out what she is up to, unless it is some deluded attempt to ‘show leadership and guts’.
The polls will go south. The NSW result will push this along further. The falling polls because of the climate tax will become their own story. The online polls all run against the tax, even in the left-biased sites and news. This will make the mining tax backlash look very tame by comparison. There are no greedy miners to caricature – they’re trying with the ‘big polluters’ line, but everyone buys products directly from the big polluters, so it’s not hard to work out who is going to foot the bill.
There’s probably a 10% chance Gillard will pull through and look far-sighted and bold. Another 10% chance she will scrape through intact but knocked around. And an 80% chance she will be put to the sword either by the people or her own party. Talk about do-or-die politics. And we all thought it amazing Gough Whitlam was eclipsed by Kevin Rudd as a joke PM, but Gillard’s reign will make Rudd’s look stately and long-lasting by comparison. It’s not just the carbon tax – there’s the East Timor policy, the immigration backflip, the health policy backflip, the coming backflip on gay marriage – it just goes on and on.
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Protests against this proposed “Carbon (sic) Tax” are being organised across the country for 23rd March. Details will made public later this week. The only way this proposed tax can be defeated is through people power. Write to Labour and Independent MP’s & Senators as suggested by Joanna. Contact details are here: –
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/mi-party.asp
Get involved in the protests. Join a facebook group (Google REVOLT AGAINST THE CARBON TAX AUSTRALIA).
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I complained to MP Andrew Wilkie about the lying from Gillard on carbon tax. This is his response. A sad day for Australia.
Thank you for sending your comments to Mr Wilkie. Mr Wilkie has a great respect for diversity of opinion, but believes human activity is changing the climate and that the Australian Government must do everything in its power to address the problem. Putting a price on carbon is part of the solution and the Prime Minister’s commitment to do so in 2012 is commendable, so long as the settings are well considered and effective. Mr Wilkie does not believe the Prime Minister lied to the Australian community on this matter. No-one expected the 2010 election result or that it would lead to so many changes in the political landscape, including the opportunity to finally act more decisively on climate change.
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ceres you should send that to a journalist like Andrew Bolt. Even Gillard admits she lied – I wonder why Wilkie denies this?
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brc & Ceres.
Sounds like Wilkie is in denial…
Cheers,
Speedy
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What does it matter if a politician lies? The way she sees it her BELIEFS are more important than anything else in the landscape. It is her beliefs that are at stake.
The effort going into the proposed tax protest would be far better spent in getting the mainstream media to apply some investigative skills to the facts or lack therof supporting AGW. Can’t our media find any scientists with the necessary knowledge of the behaviour of atmospheric CO2 and its interaction with infrared radiation? Would they rather listen to the opinions of politicians and economists (eg Gore and Garnaut?
Exposing the PM’s BELIEFS as faulty is a more effective way to get rid of her and her “carbon is the root of all evil” fellow travellers?
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What’s with the SMH survey?
@ 1655hrs
44% for repeal of tax
56% against.
Suspiciously goes against the trend of the numerous other surveys.
I smell a green rat. Or a large number of them….
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Re ceres letter from Wilkie. Notice he is reported in The Australian as calling on Abbott to sack Cori Bernadi (and Morrison) because they are “racists”. Wilkie by that response to Ceres shows he is an amoral person who never should have been elected to parliament (blame the coalition’s preferrencing at the last election).
Wilkie, no doubt because of his belief in CACC, is deviously also targeting Bernadi for his skepticism. Perhaps a copy of his reply to the editor of the Australian as well as Andrew Bolt and say Piers Akerman (Daily Telegraph) would be worthwhile.
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Speedy@59.
“Sounds like Wilkie is in denial…” Don’t you hate those denialists!
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” twice life size and floating” — great stuff Jo!
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This was recently emailed to me.
We need to copy this technique in order to defeat these communists!
===================================================
SUBJECT:- Left’s Power Manual: Networking
Hi xxx, I did investigations on the community organising and activist groups. I found the Left uses a certain number of techniques to network small groups to achieve powers of scale far beyond their size. The following doc is a 6 page primer on how the Left uses techniques to subvert the passive and inactive majority to its will.
When you hear “Community Consultation”, that’s code for controlled community group.
Very instructive, I say we rip them off and use their tools against them. In NSW they have organised many Leftie, pro-local agenda 21 groups and anti-development (green bans as per Jack Mundey, Green and Communist member).
“POWER IN COALITION: Building Powerful Coalitions by Amanda Tattersall”
Time for Australians to take the power back from the Green-Left Govt, literally.
http://powerincoalition.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/CUPE-5-principles-of-strong-coalitions-CA.pdf
PS: The Say No To The Carbon Tax Protest March is gathering more numbers each day.
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Here is a gem from The Australian – see the last line.
More people support Satanism than the NSW Labor party!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/devil-of-a-battle-brews-on-green-campaign-front/story-fn59niix-1226013777785
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I’ve said it before about Juliar Gillard. Not only stupid but evil.
Talk about somebody not growing into the job!
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Jul-Liar Gil-Lied.
A LIAR LIED…
You can get much plainer than that!
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Bruce @ 66
So, if this trend continues through to the federal level there will be more supporting the father of lies than the mother of lies right?
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Light relief
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qd2wMgQyuI
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Off topic but too much of a coindence to be true. Anyone read the West paper – page 5 of the “Today” section?
It contained an article by Pam Brown regarding a Bruce Parry, performing wonderful feats in the Arctic – all describing how that the arctic has melted significantly…
etc.
Meanwhile, back in this beloved home – SPAIN, where he says he lives because hates the cold,I happened to read on the very same day, how his very own glacier has gone gangbusters.
http://www.iceagenow.com/Glaciers_growing_in_Spain_%28Pyrinees%29.htm
Any irony here? maybe he could have stayed home and collected data and presented opposite observations.
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John Watt # 60
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve written comments to the Oz suggesting just this, in the name of good journalism, I might add. Mostly they don’t publish those comments. And if I use too much of the science myself, I often don’t get published. Sure, they can ask the opinions of scientists, but we all know they will choose Karoly for eg, or Pitman, instead of say Carter, or Franks and that’s the problem.
Having said that, I did manage to get one published today (the other to Peter van Onselen didn’t make it). Comment I wrote below:
Here’s what Ms Gillard is also not being honest about with Australians. Why is it that the big countries are not rushing ahead right now? Firstly, they know what the impact on their economies will be, secondly they’ve watched the rorting that has bedevilled the European nations that were foolhardy enough to implement schemes at the height of Anthropogenic Global Warming hysteria, and lastly, they DO know that there are rapidly emerging uncertainties with the science! Given that public opinion has shifted considerably in the last couple of years, what country in their right mind would hobble their economy for what now looks like no good reason? Here’s the question the media seem to be reluctant to ask Gillard. “PM can you provide empirical evidence (not computer modelling ‘projections’) that man-made C02 (as distinct from natural sources) is ‘causing’ warming beyond natural climate variability leading to catastrophic climate change?” That is the question she will dodge and it seems that is the question our media don’t have the fortitude to ask! Until this is established, all squabbling over the method is ludicrous.
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Most people try to conceal their lies to avoid being exposed and endure the humiliation that follows.
But since the media is so left wing, Julia knows she can do as she pleases, lie to her hearts content and still get the full support of the press gallery who will do what is required to protect their political messiah.
This lie is simply a symptom of what is the real cause of our political decay. If we had a genuine and caring media whose charter was to hold our leaders to account and protect the interests of Australians no politician would ever lie, least of all treat us all with such contempt !
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I cannot agree more John M. @73
For a democracy to work the media must serve it function. Otherwise we have a Pravda.
A paraphrase of the “you get the politicians you deserve” is “you get the politicians which the media permits”.
I can think of a different era when our ratpack in Canberra would have relentlessly pursued the AGW scam, seeking the fame of the “journalist who exposed…”
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All that is required in Australia is for one particular day to be decreed “Anti Carbon Tax Protest Day”… and I’m sure the number of protestors would be so overwhelming, it would send the biggest warning to Julia Gillard, and teach her a very important lesson in politics… you might fool all the people some of the time… and you might fool some of the people all of the time… but you will never fool all the people all of the time!
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A well implemented carbon tax would have public support. Sadly, I don’t think it will be implemented well. I hope I’m wrong.
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John @ 76,
For once you are right. There is no such thing as a well implemented tax. All taxation is theft. It may be represented as legal but it is none the less the forceful taking of wealth from it’s creator and transferring it to those who wish to consume it. The payer of the tax has no choice in the matter. He pays or it will be taken from him by force and he can be imprisoned and/or fined for not paying. THIS is not voluntary. It is extortion pure and simple. That it is done by a government does not change its moral status.
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Hmm – “all taxation is theft”. Right-i-ho then, at least we can scrub Lionell off the list of rational people on this blog.
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MattB @ 78
Taxataion without representation (or by mis-representation) is theft!
There have been a few who like to invoke The Tea Party ( I assume in the spirit of the Boston Tea Party as protest against onerous disconnected & arrogant rule). If you are here in Aus Matt, I am sure you studied a little bit of history at school (or in the party room). Perhaps you could do with a bit of a refresher on the Eureka Rebellion & the reasons & events which lead to it. Even as described by the most extreme left wing commentators/observers the basic stimulus does have very strong parallels & is very pertinent today.
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The Loaded Dog:
So your icon means, “Thumbs up this comment or I kill the dog?”
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Loaded Dog @ 61
Remember it’s a left-wing rag posing a “Loaded” question on a hypothetical scenario (i.e., there is no carbon tax yet and hopefully won’t be) which has only attracted 7,202 votes so far.
“Should the Opposition repeal any carbon tax if it gets into government”?
Yes, it’s a bad tax that will cost consumers 44%
No, uncertainty for business will also end up costing consumers 56%
By contrast:
The National Times poll on yes or no to a carbon tax was 47% Yes 53% No 35,510 Total votes
Melbourne Herald Sun : 39.93% Yes 60.07% No 46,388 Total votes
MSNnine ran a poll the day Ju-liar Gillard announced the backflip on her Lies and it was running at something like 90% against a carbon tax and only about 10% for on well over a 100,000 votes the last time I saw it but I can’t locate the final result.
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Gillard looks to China and bankrupt California for inspiration
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/gillard_looks_to_china_and_bankrupt_california_for_inspiration/
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Below is a response I received from Greg Combet’s Office about my concerns regarding the Cancun Conference.
TAKE SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT THE “GREEN CLIMATE FUND” !!!!!!!
MORE WASTE OF AUSTRALIANS HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS BASED ON FRAUD !!!!!!!!!
==============================
Australian Government
Department of Climate Change
And Energy Efficiency
Dear ———-,
Thank you for your email of 17 December 2100 to the Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, the Hon Greg Combet AM MP, concerning the Green Climate Fund.
The Minister has asked that I respond on his behalf.
The December 2010 United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) Conference in Cancun (COP 16) resulted in a balanced package of decisions, of which the decision to establish the Green Climate Fund was an important part. These decisions (the Cancun Agreements) covered the key elements of climate change, including mitigation action and transparency measures by developed and developing countries, and progress on finance, markets, clean technology, forests and adaption.
The Cancun Agreements set a global goal to hold the increase in global average temperature below 2 degrees Celsius. They anchor the pledges of developed and developing countries to reduce or limit the growth in their greenhouse gas emissions. And they also established a process to better understand these pledges and begin to build a more durable mitigation architecture.
The Cancun Agreements build on the work of the Copenhagen Climate Change Conference held in December 2009 and bring key elements of the Copenhagen Accord into the negotiations under the UNFCCC. This includes the commitment made in Copenhagen to mobilise joint international climate change finance of US$100 billion per annum by 2020, in the context of meaningful and transparent mitigation action by developing countries. Achieving this scale of finance is critical to laying the foundation to help drive the strong mitigation action needed to meet the goal of limiting the global average temperature increase to 2 degrees Celsius or below. It is also important for providing assistance to those countries most vulnerable to the impacts of climate change.
In Cancun, Minister Combet was invited by the President of COP 16 to chair the high level negotiations on climate change finance, along with his Ministerial counterpart from Bangladesh. One of the main outcomes of these negotiations was agreement to establish the new Green Climate Fund. No country expressed specific objectives to the establishment of the Green Climate Fund. Indeed, countries saw it as a crucial element of the overall package of decisions agreed at COP 16. With 193 of 194 countries supporting the package of decisions taht included establishment of the Green Climate Fund, and only one country (Bolivia) raising concerns, the package was adopted by COP 16 and will serve the basis for future work.
At COP 16, Australia worked actively with other countries to agree on the process for the design of the new fund. This will occur during 2011, through the creation of a Transnational Committee. The Transnational Committee will have 40 members, with 15 members from developed countries and 25 members from developing countries. It will meet for the first time in March 2011.
As you note in your email, the decision that contains these outcomes of COP 16 can be found at:-
http://unfccc.int/files/meetings/cop_16/application/pdf/cop16_lca.pdf
Thank you for raising these issues with the minister.
Gregory Andrews,
Assistant Secretary,
Finance, Markets and Forests Branch
7 February 2011
==========================================
[caught in the spam trap,I have no idea why] ED
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Bob C @ 80
Chuckle chuckle…
The comment’s so close to the “truth” I couldn’t resist running it again over at Australian Climate Madness.
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2011/03/key-labor-adviser-rejects-carbon-tax/
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MattB – all taxation is a form of legalised theft. It’s not as ridiculous as ‘all property is theft’ which some radicals like to preach. Sure, theft is the hardly right word because theft implies illegality and the government passes laws to make taxation legal. Perhaps better is all taxation is involuntary and done under the threat of force. Most important of all is that the people responsible for taking your money and spending it have a legal and moral duty to at least spend it in a responsible manner.
With regards to the SMH poll, I think the wording is slightly confusing which would be why it disagrees with all the other polls in terms of percentages.
John Brookes : it’s clear that no amount of design fiddling is going to engender public support for this tax. There has been no real detail and yet the tax is unpopular. So it could be perfectly ‘designed’ yet, but people aren’t going to change their initial position once the die is cast. You’re falling into the same trap that Labor walked into with the mining tax. They thought they just hadn’t got the chance to sell (spin) it the right way. When in fact the problem was that most people didn’t agree with the basic assumption that one industry should pay more than everyone else for the simple sin of being more successful. The Carbon Tax is unpopular because the public isn’t on board with global warming. Sure, many pay lip service to the idea for fear of being branded unfashionable and a denier, but when it comes to putting their hand in their pocket, they won’t pay. When it comes to actually paying, most people fall into the denier camp. They don’t trust the science and they don’t trust the politicians using the science to obtain tax dollars. This is perfectly evident in all the polling that is done, but people like yourself, Gillard and Combet reject the data and come up with theories how they are all wrong just because they haven’t been sold the message correctly. That some sort of fiddling, compensation and shuffling will suddenly reverse the underlying feeling that it is a pointless tax grab. It’s not department store fragrance – attaching the right jingle and celebrity endorsements isn’t going to move the stuff.
Global Warming is like many a new business idea that some plucky entrepreneur has designed to try. Family and friends all say it is a good idea and pat them on the back. Everyone nods in agreement- very wise, a good idea, etc. Any naysayers are ignored as stuck in the mud and obstructionist and negative. The furious agreement encourages the entrepreneur and the business is launched with great expense and fanfare. Then, when it comes time to buy from the business, excuses are made, feet are shuffled, nobody buys, not even the friends and family. Because while they might pay lip service to the idea, it’s the dollars that count, and they have other priorities. Effectively the public have been saying ‘yes, yes, save the planet, that’s a good idea’. But now the time comes to put their hand in their pocket, the real truth is known – they don’t really believe there is a problem. This has been evident for a long time with abysmal takeup of voluntary carbon offsets on things like vehicle registration and flights. If people were really willing to spend up to ‘combat global warming’ the takeups on these offerings would have been much higher than the single-digit percentages they recorded. The fact that virtually none of the people pushing AGW have actually started a successful business would explain why they didn’t realise the difference between lip service and real engagement. An experienced seller of anything can spot the difference long before they have tipped too much money and time into an idea.
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Sorry all. I should have put comment 42 in the irony square brackets for you by the sounds of it. You don’t really think I think that sort of Gillard Labor logic holds water do you?
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I was thinking more along the lines of-
Dear John,
Very sorry.
How’s only 2 days a week at the office and King John sound?
Yours humbly
The people of Australia
PS. One day a week?
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Can I suggest this tune as our rallying cry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI
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Look, I’ve got a deal for you today!
If you don’t spout “All taxation is theft” nonsense, then I won’t spout “Private property is theft” nonsense.
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More rallys that your readers might like to attend…
http://www.stopgillardscarbontax.com/
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JB @89,
I can understand that the land originally belonged to the aborigines. Once that land was taken for the Crown and subsequently granted or sold it became the property of those it was granted to or sold to. The only people I know who object to ownership are those who own nothing and there are very few who do not have some possessions for their exclusive use. As well there are many who started with little or nothing except their skills and determination and worked to attain possessions. Are they theives too?
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Wow, Johnny, My private stuff that I worked for was stolen? That’s sick, dude.
There are only two fundamental ways to distribute resources.
The first way is to create wealth by some kind of value added process such as raising livestock, farming, running a pub (providing a service) or making goods to trade or—believe it or not—GET A JOB.
The other way is to steal thy neighbour’s livestock or grain or Holden.
The first way is a creative process that adds to total sum of wealth in the society. The second way, which is to steal from your neighbour, adds no new wealth to society, but does succeed in redistributing resources even if there is a social injustice component.
Free market capitalism evolved from the moral imperative to create your own wealth, rather than steal it from your neighbour, although in practice the two evolved hand in hand… As such capitalism is a rather new innovation that, in theory, shifts competition from the realm brutal force to that of the market place. But stealing as a way to capture and distribute wealth has never left us, we simply institutionalised theft in the form of slavery, colonization and TAXATION. Thankfully two of these processes are history.
Today, the whole social pact that binds our civil society together is based upon taxation, which is fine, when the taxes are used for the common good of maintaining roads, bridges, museums, etc. But when a government decides to take from one group of citizens and give to another then the boundary between taxation and institutionalised theft is tested.
In a democracy once wealth redistribution is established as a legitimate function of government, the end is near. For once the politicians realize they can create whole classes of people dependent upon bread and circuses paid for by the government and once these people are morally corrupted into believing it’s fair dinkum to vote for the expansion of such “entitlements,” then the society will inevitably tip towards a theft-based economy until the last of the wealth creators flee or revolt.
This is the morbidity that allows you to utter “private property is theft.” You got to believe that people who work hard for what they have deserve to pony up to the state to fund those won’t. Naturally, the best way to justify this is to claim those who study hard and work hard are just bloody leeches pushing down the trampled poor on their way to the top. Thus, the sociopathic concept of Property is Theft. Obvious if I have money then someone else is poorer because of it. This zero-sum nonsense the foundation of leftist economic illiteracy. In fact, my wealth creating work not only makes me richer but increases the size of the entire economy so that everyone benefits. Private property is the opposite of theft.
What we see in the Greece today could be our future if we all think like Johnny. Great masses of people are dependent upon the government to tax the wealth creators to fund their lifestyles and this has pushed the wealth creators into fleeing and the debtors to call in their loans. The government now broke asks its dependents to lower their standard of living. After a lifetime of living on ill gotten gains, these dependents practice the only form of wealth acquisition they know how…. They riot like the barbarian horde they have been culturally reduced to.
So Johnny keep your sticky fingers off my stuff and you’ll be alright, mate.
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When you hear politicians telling the public how a tax will benefit certain people, you can believe it is a big lie.
Taxes are punitive. They don’t discriminate. The carbon tax will affect everything, one way or another. All businesses will be keen to pass it on to consumers in one form or another. The carbon tax will definitely raise the cost of energy (electricity for sure)… and electricity affects all businesses and households.
And that’s why Gillard must be stopped. All this Labor government loves is dreaming up new taxes to make our lives that little bit harder. It’s shameful.
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Hey Wes, I don’t believe the “private property is theft” mantra, just as I don’t believe the “taxation is theft” mantra.
They are both as stupid and counterproductive as each other.
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I do believe that a tax on carbon dioxide is theft.
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Na! Sorry, it will never work. No amount of galvanising will have any effect.
She’s corrosive enough to eat through anything.
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OMG I seriously invented fauxtrage – original Matt B thought! Urban dictionary… kudos to me.
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Matt, so good that you could pop in. Yes, you were the first person (and maybe the only one so far) that I heard fauxtrage from. Cheers. Hows the business going?
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